retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[gaunt star]

speak for urself im the superior race aka fem au'ra

[tiny wind]

its fine as long as you're not a potato

[untold gull]

I've never played cat person before

[gaunt star]

yeah potatos are a mistake..

[high swan]

Speak for urself I'm the superior race aka fem roe

[gaunt star]

fem roe is superior bottom

[untold gull]

I'll take this moment to mourn the original fem au'ra concept

[high swan]

Fem Aura are the same tier of degeneracy as Cat womenz

[gaunt star]

tbh the og au'ra concept wasnt bad but it seemed off to me tbh

nah

cat women are a meme

thats why the CEO used a femqote at limsa lominsa as a dragoon

[untold gull]

If they never said that they made fem au'ra short and cuddly because it would appeal to people more, I wouldn't have been so attached to the og concept

[high swan]

Sounds like he's appealing to the masses

Fem Aura is just a copy of cat women

[gaunt star]

https://i.imgur.com/3X1HNa9.png

tbh i wouldnt mind the helmet thing

the left one has

[high swan]

They where supposed to be huge? Right

[turbid aspen]

now this is a tribal warrior that could chokeslam me

[high swan]

And the males smaller?

[turbid aspen]

😳

[untold gull]

Yes, supposed to be huge

[shut burrow]

Viera Male and Hrothgar female me thinks

[gaunt star]

https://i.imgur.com/yl8E3Be.png

[high swan]

These are cool

[turbid aspen]

chad

[high swan]

Would play

[gaunt star]

wouldnt

[untold gull]

We got watered down chad

[gaunt star]

fem au'ra > male au'ra

also their torso

[high swan]

I'll have to stick with my Chadletta Fem Roe so

[gaunt star]

what the fuck is wrong with the male au'ra torso

[untold gull]

I love the fem concept. It makes sense than 'we don't know why females are smaller' lore

[high swan]

More options would be nice. For character creation

Imagine how much work they would have to do to add a few new options. And then in turn how many people would buy Fantasias

It's easy money

[gaunt star]

best race

[gaunt star]

they make a shit ton of money already

[high swan]

Make more

[gaunt star]

likee they got so many sales on the expansions

and fantasia sales have people buying large amount of it -each time-

[tiny wind]

au ra only have this face expression 😐

[gaunt star]

the same u got when u look at the mirror

[tiny wind]

waow

sadge

[gaunt star]

sage?

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/742643125981413447/807676673783889990/Alphisage.gif

[tiny wind]

alphi my boy

[high swan]

Bigger difference between the sub races would be nice. Kind of like the Human Highlander and Midlander

[gaunt star]

the meme is Lyse and Minfilia are highlanders

[high swan]

They both look midlander

[gaunt star]

but highlander models didnt exist

back then

[high swan]

Oh hah

[gaunt star]

and tbh

they'd both look awful as highlanders

lyse specially, Minfilia kinda looks like a smaller highlander already

looked* she dead now woops

[high swan]

Actually. I'm going through the MNK questline for Stormblood and those 2 Lala puglists refer to Hamon as a highlander

When he's a Midlander for sure

[gaunt star]

Hamon appears when

havent lvled mnk

if hes from ARR content id say it makes sense

[high swan]

He returns for the Stprmblood questline of Monk

So level, 63 quest or so

[gaunt star]

hmm dunno

may is so far away tho i need me 6.0 news

[strange summit]

Even 5.5 is too far away

[gaunt star]

screw 5.5

i wanna sage

[strange summit]

You'll sage in September/October like the rest of us

[gaunt star]

time to visit SE HQ

[strange summit]

"I'm here to beta-test the fuck out of the Sage"

[gaunt star]

yes

'ill even do an ability showcase for others since im here'

free advertisment

[strange summit]

Let me call my good friend Yoshi-P

[gaunt star]

as if ure friends with yoshi p

[tiny wind]

in fact he's my uncle

[gaunt star]

thats impossible since hes my grandpa

[tiny wind]

[gaunt star]

time to do bozja

[strange summit]

Well, he autographed my lorebook twice, so we can say there's something going on between us yes

[teal geyser]

DDDDDDDDDDDDD:

gib

[gaunt star]

but u dont have his number

[strange summit]

Fanfests are really cool for this too

[strange summit]

It's huh... twelve... yeah, twelve

[gaunt star]

[strange summit]

[gaunt star]

why are male roes so ugly

i spawned near one

[teal geyser]

Don't be rude to his man

[gaunt star]

[teal geyser]

Ow

[gaunt star]

nah he looks decent

Roe>hrothgar

[smoky lark]

So has anyone made any speculation on Zeno's new outfit, still hard to see most of it but it has massive folded shirt collar bit along with his half armoured gauntlets

I mean it's barely anything but maybe something to poke at

It kinda reminds me of the Samurai 70 gear a little, but with armoured gloves, but that's me pulling on straws

if there's any matches to the teased lvl 90 class gear for what zeno's new style is

[open verge]

No probably not

Zenos always has unique gear

[high swan]

Do you think that, in 6.0 enemies will become more aware that the WoL is a god slayer and not be so confident in facing him

In cutscenes mostly

Maybe people fleeing in terror at the sight of us

That would be fun

[open verge]

I mean

They did plot on just poison gassing us to death

that is a good point tho

I really hope they play into people in Garlemald being scared shitless that we’ve arrived

[wet crown]

They planned on gassing everyone. Not just Derplander

And never underrestimate the stupidity of people. They'll continue to throw themselves at the Hero of Eorzea

[narrow heron]

Gonna be interesting interacting with regular Garleans. We've been fighting and talking with nothing but military personel all this time really.

Wonder what they think of the mythical WoL.

Gonna be like the end times for them maybe. Their major city wrecked by infighting and Zenos shenanigans and then we show up like "SUP"

[teal geyser]

I wonder how many normal Garleans we'll even see

At worst we'll get two zones in Ilsabard

at best I think we'll get two zones and city

and if it's two zones and one is Garlemald, Garlemald is probably going to be mostly military and whatever civilian rescue rally point place and whoever else is stuck

and the other zone will probably have decent stuff

[somber storm]

"I thought you'd be taller"

[high swan]

Chances are normal Garlean folk probably never even heard of the WoL

I reckon that place is drenched in propaganda

Maybe during the high of the empire

[teal geyser]

Why would you not propagandise the demon of Eorzea?

Gotta get the populace afraid

[high swan]

Maybe things would change for 6.0

"We are winning the war, its EZ"

But yah, you right

Now they are losing the fight they might demonize the WoL

[teal geyser]

Even when they are winning they'd probably do that

Gotta make your enemy appear both strong and weak

the key to uh, cough the f word

gotta make the unpopular enemies out to be strong and create discontent with that class/people and whatnot but also make them appear weak such that the people believe that they can win through popular will

[high swan]

Yes 🙂

A scene with the WoL walking through Garlemald in flames as the people run in terror

I want this 🙂

[wet crown]

Don't you mean the other way around?

Gotta be full of fetch quests by then

[high swan]

Hah

I like to look at it from the point of view of the enemy

"enemy"

A certain very popular Anime did it recently for the first few episodes of their newest season

[open verge]

Hey WoL you killed my husband by summoning a dragon to burn them to a crisp

[wet crown]

Don't worry. He died instantly.

[forest magnet]

"He had it coming"

[heady shadow]

https://twitter.com/FanbyteMedia/status/1362401483766005761?s=19

Fanbyte (@FanbyteMedia)

Natsuko Ishikawa continues her reign: Shadowbringers' main scenario writer will resume her role for Final Fantasy XIV's upcoming expansion. We spoke about that and more Endwalker with director Naoki Yoshida. https://t.co/3dNbx049fq

Retweets

360

Likes

411

Twitter · Feb 18, 2021, 2:00 PM

[somber storm]

"You had a husband?"

[heady shadow]

yeeeah boi

[teal geyser]

Sure cool

¯_(ツ)_/¯

lowkey kinda mad

I wanted to taste the tears when Ishikawa didn't have as big of a role in Endwalker

Seriously, people get so fucking all or nothing with Ishikawa

"Expansion is going to suck ass, it's going to be utter dogshit unless she's main writer"

[heady shadow]

yeah i know/

because she'll do endwalker, but then from there someone else will do it

which when the salt flies it'll be better

[teal geyser]

I hope 7.0 is someone else at least

Give someone else a chance

[heady shadow]

do they have anyone else?

im not familiar with their whole story team.

[gaunt star]

the ARR writer

[teal geyser]

Of course they do

[heady shadow]

and HW is working on ffxvi iirc

but that should be out before 7.0

[gaunt star]

the entire story team works together on the story, they can always change leads for it

[teal geyser]

Pretty sure Oda in part wrote Stormblood to that kind of degree

[gaunt star]

it was mainly oda and ishikawa for SB

[heady shadow]

ishikawa only did azim steppe though?

[teal geyser]

I know some pages say the whole far east but yeah pretty sure it was just Steppe

[gaunt star]

so basically the only good parts of sb

[teal geyser]

Steppe bad

[gaunt star]

nuh uh

also we know the twins wont die cause yoshida considers them his siblings

[teal geyser]

People want to kill their siblings though

[heady shadow]

the only thing that makes steppe good is the sadu/magnai pairing

mwhahahahah

[gaunt star]

but not yoshi p

i hated Magnai

whose gonna tell him we are the sun now

[teal geyser]

Hot take

Steppe isn't even good for the writing

It's the design and music

Steppe isn't good because of Ishikawa

[strange summit]

THE QUEEN IS BACK ?

THE QUEEN IS BACK OMFG !!

[heady shadow]

fair

[teal geyser]

Also because Cirina is adorable

And the instance is fun

And Sadu gives the confused boner

[wary perch]

TBf, ishikawa did prove herself as writer for drk quest, azem msq and other quest

[gaunt star]

yeah just callie salty

[teal geyser]

I never said she was bad

She is a good writer

[wary perch]

So if other writer will take the rein for 7.0 I hope they can take on other quest line first to check on their capabilities

I understand what Callie mean though

[gaunt star]

im expecting a new lead writer for 6.1 onwards since its a new arc

[teal geyser]

Hey whoever did SAM was good

[maiden lodge]

My stance is not that it's 'Ishikawa or shit' it's that Yoshi P would be foolish not to utilize her again in that role, barring her own personal circumstances

[teal geyser]

I don't think Ishikawa did that one

[gaunt star]

tbh i dont care who does the writing as long as its good

Ishikawa did DRK/Alchemist

[wary perch]

Same quest from 50-60 is good

[maiden lodge]

Given the acclaim that ShB got.

[teal geyser]

Agreed

[gaunt star]

oh and rogue

[wary perch]

But 60-70 is kinda boring compared to 50-60

[teal geyser]

A bit but so is DRK 50-60

Don't @ me

[maiden lodge]

Exactly. So I expect Ishikawa barring some really weird situations

[gaunt star]

[heady shadow]

i do think that, they will end up changing it up for 7.0

[maiden lodge]

Probably.

[heady shadow]

because if fans get too used to one type of writing

[teal geyser]

Mmm, I'm just disappointed there won't be salt

[maiden lodge]

There's always going to be salt.

[wary perch]

Probably

[heady shadow]

eventually they'll just bitch about it being predicatable

[gaunt star]

[wary perch]

Variety is good

[teal geyser]

I need moreeeee

[maiden lodge]

Hell, there's already people complaining that it's going to be emotional and cathartic.

[heady shadow]

well yeah

the end of days is fuckjing coming

[gaunt star]

i mean its the conclusion of the arc it would be emotional regardless

[heady shadow]

did they thing we were going to the carebear shop to make some teddy bears?

[maiden lodge]

She wrote the rogue quests too?

Nice.

[wary perch]

We are coming to end of a saga. Of is it's gonna be emotional

[maiden lodge]

Those were good.

[teal geyser]

wah it's going to be emotional
Wah the villains are so devoid of emotion or anything interesting
I do think that's a little interesting

[wary perch]

It's like build up of End Game

8 years down the road and this is it

[gaunt star]

its like those idiots on the forums who want to see everyone slaughtered

[wary perch]

I just hope the new story after 6.0 is as good

[heady shadow]

hey

i want some good guys to die for once

T^T

[gaunt star]

shut up kaiba

[teal geyser]

Your favourites will now die

[maiden lodge]

https://www.fanbyte.com/features/lead-shadowbringers-writer-natsuko-ishikawa-returns-for-ffxiv-endwalker/ oh heyyyyy

[gaunt star]

repost

[teal geyser]

Smh Dis

[maiden lodge]

I know just putting it in the right section

[wary perch]

Fitting to kill isthola to end an epic finale of the ascian saga

[gaunt star]

we were discussing the story based on this article

nah

kill Aymeric

[wary perch]

Or maybe server go crashing and we revert to lv1

[teal geyser]

Kill Jester

[gaunt star]

G'raha has plot armor anyway

twins wont die cause yoshi p said they will shine in 6.0

[maiden lodge]

Ah, notice he said I'shtola, not Y'shtola. Different tribe, it still counts

[heady shadow]

jokes on you i dont have favorites xD

[wary perch]

Doubt graha has plot armor

[craggy gale]

if they actually kill off yshtola no one will ever believe it

[kind lark]

Killo gram of steel or a kilo gram of feathers?

[maiden lodge]

this is not what plot armor means

[gaunt star]

[maiden lodge]

The following characters, as of right now, have plot armor:
Zenos
Warrior of Light.

That is the entire list.

[gaunt star]

oh my god

shut up

[teal geyser]

He does, it's the "Ishikawa personal husbando pls don't kill" armour

[gaunt star]

Kill yshtola and the twins

thats not what i meant

I will bring the pitchforks !!

twins wont die xd

[heady shadow]

no but their dad will

[maiden lodge]

No what you meant is the characters have some sort of attachment with the writers and therefore are more likely to survive.

[wary perch]

But nothing hurt more than kill the red cat boy

[gaunt star]

thats fine hes an asshole

[heady shadow]

:evilgrin:

[maiden lodge]

So did Haurchefant.

[heady shadow]

I dont think he's an asshole

[gaunt star]

i expected the guy to die anyway

[maiden lodge]

He was made to die.

[teal geyser]

Enemy to localisers

[gaunt star]

What we need is for Estinien to have another kain moment but on steroids where he kills half the scions in a rampage

[maiden lodge]

Even Kain only had two.

[gaunt star]

what we need is Sallys head on a stick

[teal geyser]

ESTINIEEEEEEN

[gaunt star]

or estiniens spear

his new hairstyle is pretty nice tho

[teal geyser]

He looks like a girl!

[maiden lodge]

Oh here we go:
"When comparing the locations to those in previews expansions, Yoshida explained “this might be the most varied adventure. We hope our players are excited to explore these new areas.”"

Expect 'split narrative' salt.

[teal geyser]

NOOO

Fuck

[gaunt star]

yeees

[teal geyser]

That means minimal Ilsabard zones

Wait no maybe it doesn't

[maiden lodge]

You asked for salt but you never imagined it would be your own!

[teal geyser]

Ilsabard big

[pine epoch]

I cant wait to start the ilsabard 2 expansion brigade

[maiden lodge]

AHAHAHAHAHA

[gaunt star]

callie arent u excited for ilsabard restoration?

[maiden lodge]

Garlemald in ruins IS Ilsabard resto

[teal geyser]

I couldn't give a fuck honestly?

[gaunt star]

whyareyoulikethis

[heady shadow]

honestly

[gaunt star]

i know, but i want the garletards to ask us for help and i wanna say 'No' then do the emet wave

[heady shadow]

||thancred can die||

xD

[kind lark]

Moon restoration

[gaunt star]

probably

[pine epoch]

I'm reserving judgement. Until we actually know more.

[maiden lodge]

Amaurot restoration

[gaunt star]

amaurot is supposed to dissapear

[gaunt star]

Sign me up

what u gonna restore

[heady shadow]

theres ruins

somewhere

[kind lark]

The fish people's homes

[gaunt star]

The debate halls

[heady shadow]

pandemonium might be ruins

[gaunt star]

they are finish fk em

fish*

Damn

[teal geyser]

No he can't, not after the death he should have gotten in ShB, he had his perfect moment and failed

[heady shadow]

booo

[kind lark]

Without the fish we would be lost in the ocean

[gaunt star]

Pandaemonium will be Lahabreads bedroom

look at all his monster figures come to life

Final Fantasy: Toy Story

I’m gonna steal ifrita

[teal geyser]

But yeah it feels more and more that we'll just get two Ilsabard zones

[pine epoch]

Like as long as it's more than 1. But I seriously would rather 3

[gaunt star]

wonder which zone will be the large one

[teal geyser]

If they make Sharlayan the city I'll cry and if we only get one zone for Ilsabard I'll also cry

[gaunt star]

tears of happyness or pain

[teal geyser]

Pain

[gaunt star]

u dont want shitlayan?

[teal geyser]

I want to go to Sharlayan so bad but not like this

[gaunt star]

with the racist bookworms?

oh

[maiden lodge]

If they make Ilsabard zones anything more than one people will 'stormbloodEndwalker has a split narrative' forever.

[pine epoch]

Like I have no problem with going all over or "split narrative" but I feel theres gonna be many places that get gimped that dont deserve being gimped with 0 hope of a Sequel expansion to explore more

[maiden lodge]

I'm just saying it now.

[pine epoch]

Those people are fucking blind

[gaunt star]

eh

[spiral mica]

Ill be legitimately shocked if Sharlayan isnt the main city tbh

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, but you know.

[teal geyser]

Having less Ilsabard zones fuels the split narrative idea

[gaunt star]

new arc could explore anything

it just wont be tied to ascians

[maiden lodge]

Not really.

ANything less than 5 ilsabard zones fuels a 'split narrative' idea.

[teal geyser]

Yes because that means more zones spread out over completely separated communities

[maiden lodge]

Unless they just go 'fuck it' and make it a 'go all over looking for information' quest.

[pine epoch]

People bitch and moan when anything revolves garleans because they arent as cool or "well developed" as the ascians

[teal geyser]

Okay okay I see your point

[maiden lodge]

That would keep the focus on HvZ and off Garlemald.

[teal geyser]

Fuck them I love Garleans

[gaunt star]

garleans arent interesting tbh

[open verge]

Ishikawa writing 6.0

[gaunt star]

Why not both ascians and garleans

[maiden lodge]

I'm fine with Garleans. I'm not fine with Garleans taking center stage for the final arc of HvZ.

[open verge]

They probably won’t

[gaunt star]

a garlean has the center stage

[pine epoch]

You cant avoid garleans taking center stage when Zenos is a garlean

[gaunt star]

does it count

[wary perch]

I hope it doesn't those unvisit zone will become a dungeon like xethaphol

[heady shadow]

zenos is a chimera

[spiral mica]

although Yoshis comment about "filling in the pieces" by going to places that have been talked about but never seen, could be almost anything. There is like, 3 expansions worth of zones that we have heard about but never seen, so who knows

[heady shadow]

xzD

[maiden lodge]

Sure you can. Zenos yae Galvus isn't in charge, there's no Garlean thrust so far.

[teal geyser]

Oh my God please no I didn't even think of that

[open verge]

But garleans are directly related to the end HvZ

[maiden lodge]

No, a Garlean is. The rest aren't.

[gaunt star]

pain?

[heady shadow]

welll......

[open verge]

You can’t end this arc without garleans

[heady shadow]

maybe we'll hang with

[teal geyser]

Mountain of salt

[gaunt star]

damn

[heady shadow]

Maxima's ilk

theres the thing for me

[gaunt star]

inb4 Garlemald doesnt even have vendors or anything

[maiden lodge]

Their story is done. What story is left to tell of Garlemald as an empire, other than its selfdestruction?

[gaunt star]

Maxima better come back

just a wasteland

[heady shadow]

we only got what?

[teal geyser]

To be fair most are dead minus I guess Nerva maybe

[heady shadow]

two Garlean wiafus?

need more

[gaunt star]

u wanted to go to garlemald since 2.0? well heres the ruins

[pine epoch]

I just feel I have 0 place at all in discussing here.

[forest magnet]

do we even have a Garlean waifu

[open verge]

Yes

[gaunt star]

no

[open verge]

Lucia

[gaunt star]

oh right

[teal geyser]

Zenos

[forest magnet]

She's taken

dummy

[gaunt star]

wait isnt she adopted?

nvm she has the eye

[heady shadow]

Lucia is garlean

[gaunt star]

forgot she showed it

[heady shadow]

lul

[forest magnet]

She's obviously lusting after Aymeric

[wary perch]

Which legatus we haven't dealt with or going to be dealt with as of now?

[gaunt star]

LOOK KAIBA

ILL BEAT U UP

[heady shadow]

hey

[teal geyser]

3 and Nerva but in a good way

[heady shadow]

I dont forget importnant bits

like everyone else

xD

[viscid monolith]

I assume that the self destruction of Garlemald will be the focus for 6.0 and it's clean up 6.1 and forward

[pine epoch]

Theres a way you could do garleans and hvz together and it flow naturally without one or the other feeling gimped

[heady shadow]

i do forget how the type though

[gaunt star]

i was just thinking of something else cause im doing bozja as i talk here

[teal geyser]

Nerva over here basically Prince Aulus(?) from FF3

[wary perch]

Garlemald destruction will probably be the end of 5.5

[viscid monolith]

But the destruction of Garlemald being more, incidental and not the focus?

[maiden lodge]

I assume the elder primals will be the focus of 6.0, the New End Days, the Moon, the cause of everything on a grand cosmic scale, and not local politics.

[teal geyser]

We calling them elder primals now?

[maiden lodge]

The eldest!

[teal geyser]

Oh

[pine epoch]

You cant avoid telling a story of the countries of the world going to war with Zenos

Its impossible

[viscid monolith]

It's getting a zone by the looks of it so it is getting screentime

[wary perch]

What if remaining sundered ascian's all join the telephoroi group and disband ascian group for 6.1 plotline?

[maiden lodge]

Sure you can. Because he's not the emperor.

[viscid monolith]

But all it needs is a single zone

[teal geyser]

No >:(

[gaunt star]

what if Fandaniel dies and telophoroi cease

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/742643125981413447/808001099528405022/0bc314d2a182c6c0.gif

[maiden lodge]

If you need any confirmation that as of right now, he's not the emperor, we have it in his name.

[pine epoch]

HE DOESNT NEED TO BE EMPEROR

[wary perch]

@teal geyser why not. I have a feeling we are not done with fandaniel in 6.0

[pine epoch]

Theres a difference between going to war with garlemald and going to war with fucking death cult

[maiden lodge]

Until he's Zenos zos Galvus, he's not the head of state of a country, he's not someone you can 'do war' with. It's not going to be a war narrative, in the same way Stormblood was.

[gaunt star]

ure right we are done with fandaniel in 5.5 part 2

[viscid monolith]

The Yae is part of his identity it would be weird to call him whatever the title for Emperor is

[pine epoch]

I feel I'm talking to a brick ducking wall

[gaunt star]

https://tenor.com/view/talking-wall-gif-5021467

[maiden lodge]

Tell that to Nael.

[viscid monolith]

I never acknowledged Deus

[gaunt star]

Nael was tempered and insane

[teal geyser]

Deudalaphon too nice don't corrupt

[viscid monolith]

It doesn't roll off the tongue as well as Van

[teal geyser]

Zos

[viscid monolith]

Suffer

[gaunt star]

lmao

[teal geyser]

What

[viscid monolith]

[maiden lodge]

Someone doesn't like alliteration!

[teal geyser]

Shoulda gone all the way

[maiden lodge]

But seriously, after the complaints of Stormblood being a slog of a war story, they're not going to make the story in 6.0 a slog of 'time to trudge to Garlemald'

[teal geyser]

Dick Deus Darnus

[gaunt star]

just call him 'Zenos', titles are unnecessery

[teal geyser]

Zenny

[gaunt star]

zen-chan?

Zenos Gae Galvus

[forest magnet]

Meh

[gaunt star]

zenos overrated galvus

[forest magnet]

They're gonna give Zenos and Fandaniel the tacked on sad backstory like Elidibus

and then people will love them all

calling it rn

[spiral mica]

Fandaniel MAYBE.

[pine epoch]

Stormblood isnt the war story I want. I want to see 14 do a war story that deals with cosmic forces. With political twist and turns. But I doubt this will ever happen

[spiral mica]

Zenos, no way

[unique verge]

Zenos Who-Cares-He's-Dead-Soon Galvus

[wary perch]

Zenos an galvus

[forest magnet]

i mean zenos is gonna be the final boss

[teal geyser]

Pfft imagine thinking he dies 6.0

[forest magnet]

they've spent nearly 4 years + hyping him up

[pine epoch]

But fucking I feel there will never be another war story in msq ever again simply because fucking the playerbase hated stormblood

[spiral mica]

Zenos might be given a treatment similar to Vauthry tho, with Emet doing some weird shit to him as a baby

[maiden lodge]

Not necessarily. Ishikawa doesn't automatically go to the well of tragic back stories, so there's no reason to expect her to do so now just because she humanized the Ascians.

[gaunt star]

Fandaniel isnt like emet or elidibus

he said it himself unless she rewrites his character for 6.0 lol

[teal geyser]

Hate Stormblood as much as they do for no reason mind you. There isn't enough bad in Stormblood to justify the levels it gets

[unique verge]

If he gets a "get out of death free" pass twice as both the 4.0 end boss AND the 6.0 end boss, it will cause irrevocable harm to the story imo

[teal geyser]

[gaunt star]

Zenos will join the Scions

[forest magnet]

Out of all the antagonists we've fought against so far in XIV the Garlean Empire is on the lower end of the "interesting and compelling" spectrum

[maiden lodge]

Wasn't free, they forshadowed the fuck out of it

[spiral mica]

Zenos Trust companion in 7.0

[viscid monolith]

Zenos' death cheat was actually established before unlike basically every other death cheat in the game

[gaunt star]

Amnesiac Zenos joins the gang

[unique verge]

I think you're misunderstanding the complaint.

[gaunt star]

[deep roost]

If we are the last air bender, Zenos is gona be our Prince Zuko

[heady shadow]

how does zenos get a free out of death pass when they were already planning 5.0 before sb even launched/

?

[unique verge]

Getting to cheat death once is fine. Getting to cheat death the same way later is not.

[maiden lodge]

As an MSQ antagonist, after we destroyed their entire reason for existing? Yeah.

The individual legions in side stories, has been gold however.

[gaunt star]

they are 2 years ahead

in terms of lore

[maiden lodge]

Tell that to the Echo, which you know lets them do that.

[heady shadow]

they should be getting ready to plan 7.0 now

[viscid monolith]

People whine about Zenos living after stealing the fucking Echo but I don't see nearly enough whining about Yotsuyu and Gosetsu living through their bullshit

[unique verge]

Obviously we just kill him like we kill an Ascian.

[gaunt star]

lmfao they are probably starting 8.0s story once END releases

[pine epoch]

Because people have a boner for gosetsu and yotsuyu

[unique verge]

And again, im not "whining about Zenos surviving"

I'm saying if he does it twice as the mainline bad guy of the expansion

disaster

[heady shadow]

I think Yoshi said their normal game plan is to start the next expac work when the one they are working on is 70% completed/

?

[gaunt star]

yeah

[deep roost]

YoshiP stated they have outlined 2-3 xpacs in advance already

[gaunt star]

but in terms of story they are 2 expansions eahead

ahead**

[maiden lodge]

I doubt he will, or if he survives, it's not because he came back from the dead, but some other Kujah-like situation

[heady shadow]

there so

if zenos comes back

its being planned right pow

mwhahahahahaha

[maiden lodge]

Bear in mind something 'planned years ahead' is not the same as 'written years ahead.' Ishikawa was cranking out Shadowbringers writing almost to the deadline.

[gaunt star]

well things can change during development

[deep roost]

Yeah writing is different

[maiden lodge]

And sometimes things change during that process, like Eden being swapped out for Hades.

[gaunt star]

writing too

[wary perch]

@maiden lodge doesn't feel like a war story when you only have a few birds flying around and call it an army when liberating doma and ala migo

[teal geyser]

glares at Emet

[gaunt star]

tho i hope 6.0 doesnt suck due to them slowing down development for 3 months

[teal geyser]

Oh you already said it gdi

[ruby hull]

MNK in 6.0 needs a "Omae wa mou Shindeiru" skill

[gaunt star]

specially since the conclusion is straight up 6.0 not 6.x

[wary perch]

There's just not enough large scale battle to tell a good war story narrative

[maiden lodge]

I mean, okay, I remember there being a lot more forces involved on the Ala Mighan front but that's just me I guess

[ruby hull]

something like a melee wildfire

[viscid monolith]

That sounds way to cool for monk

[tough fern]

Ishikawa is the lead writer for Endwalker?

[forest magnet]

The Bozja story is alright, it's nothing good.

[maiden lodge]

For that, you honestly need something like Bozja.

[gaunt star]

yes

sheis

[maiden lodge]

Confirmed, hard.

[viscid monolith]

They'll give monk some new damage cooldown and no new attacks

[tough fern]

Okay......Nowi'm irreversibly hyped

Trample on my feels again please

[gaunt star]

damn

[tough fern]

[wary perch]

@maiden lodge yea bozja has a better war story narrative

[pine epoch]

I'm going to state my personal belief. But I dont think Ilsabard would hold back the HvZ story. I dont think it would make the garleans over take and ruin HvZ. It all comes down to the reason of why your going there. Because if the whole idea is garleans arent important than we shouldnt have to go to garlemald.

[gaunt star]

u want tissues?

[forest magnet]

Does it though? Misija is literally a Fordola copy/paste

[viscid monolith]

I like that they gave Blue Mage the monk abikity people have been asking for for years. I'm definitely not upset or salty about it.

[pine epoch]

I think people who think ilsabard would hold back hvz are delusional and that's my personal belief

[tough fern]

If there is anyone who can make Zenos a villian we can actually hate for how good he is its Ishikawa

[viscid monolith]

Not at all

[maiden lodge]

We have a reason to go to Garlemald, that doesnt involve the Garlean Empire.

[wary perch]

@forest magnet misija isn't though

[gaunt star]

no matter what Zenos does or whoever he kills, hes a dissapointment i wanna kill already

[ruby hull]

think about it as a melee version of MCH Wildfire where you punch/kick over 10 secs and then the target gets torn apart from a big burst

[maiden lodge]

Two men are trying to cause the end of days. That's a good enough reason. The empire is superfluous to this.

[gaunt star]

the sooner hes out of the picture the better

[pine epoch]

Yes and I dont care about going to ilsabard for the garlean empire you can go to ilsabard without the Garlean Fucking Empire taking center stage

Especially with the terminus beast

[viscid monolith]

Misija and Fordola aren't even from the same class. Their life experiences are completely different and their motivations aren't the same.

[pine epoch]

And final days

[tulip geyser]

Garlemald looks like its been Mordorfied anyhow

[forest magnet]

If Ishikawa has full control over a character yes. Zenos will get the same treatment as Elidibus

Mind you, Elidibus was literally "I forgot."

[gaunt star]

isnt it a lil too late for Zenos?

[pine epoch]

Why is it that whenever someone mentions about going to ilsabard you fucking jump on saying the garlean empire would hold it fucking back

[maiden lodge]

I'm not sure how you can seperate the Garlean Empire from the Garlean Empire, even if they're falling apart. You're going from telling a story of opposing the Garleans to a story of the aftermath of Garlean occupation--it's still a story about the Garleans.

[gaunt star]

elidibus wasnt as explored

[forest magnet]

And people feel like it fixed his character when in reality it's the only thing that could've been made to fit Elidibus

[tulip geyser]

I doubt theyll make Zenos sympathetic other than the fact maybe he and Azem were friends in a past life

[unique verge]

But Lance, they're both imperial "traitors" and they're both in prison now and their captors are both sympathetic towards them! /s

[gaunt star]

misija should be executed

[unique verge]

Honestly i cant stand the Misijia/Fordola comparers

[forest magnet]

They kidnapped someone and extracted their echo. And will eventually do a good deed in teh end.

[gaunt star]

That’s literally Emet

[maiden lodge]

That's the problem with Ilsabard--you can't seperate it from the Garlean Empire, because the Empire controls (or very recently controlled) all of it. And what place of note in Ilsabard do we need to visit? Bozja?

[deep roost]

They are gona play the mom card on us with Zenos to pull our feels

[forest magnet]

I mean it's so obvious that Misija will save Mikoto in that flashfoward.

[pine epoch]

Not in endwalker. When it's the fucking apocalypse. No one would fucking care who these people were once ruled by. It be about fucking stopping the end of the god damn world

[gaunt star]

Zenos’ mom card is anima

Anima = Zenos mom Kapp

[forest magnet]

wtf is a mom card

[gaunt star]

FF10 all out

[pine epoch]

If they are 100% quite serious about their promotional material the GARLEAN EMPIRE is no fucking more

And shouldnt matter at all

[viscid monolith]

They both have similar moments but what you're doing is like saying Batman and Superman are the same because their parents died and later in life they started dressing up funny and saving people. Completely ignoring all of the context around it.

[maiden lodge]

That sounds bad. Like, you're going into an area that was, as of last Monday, the Garlean Empire, and you expect them to just drop that baggage and ignore extremely recent history? That sounds like bad writing--because isn't the point of going to Ilsabard to explore that kinda shit?

[tulip geyser]

Yeah but Emet wasnt doing what he did for the lulz, at least

[forest magnet]

Fandaniel has literally told us why he's doing this.

[viscid monolith]

Literally getting a zone

[forest magnet]

And we know why Zenos wants to do this too

[maiden lodge]

There is no 'not Garlean Empire* on Ilsabard right now--so you're either dealing with the Empire, or cultures recently under their thumb--you just can't seperate 'last Tuesday' from the lore.

[forest magnet]

There's obviously another antagonist

[gaunt star]

Tataru

[maiden lodge]

This

[deep roost]

Tataru

[maiden lodge]

The Tataruphoroi

[pine epoch]

I honestly think zodiark is the 89 or 87 trial. Since we already have zodiark themed weapons

And the cause of the final days the 90 trial

[forest magnet]

Mind you however. Thordan was teased in 2.3, Emet Selch in 4.4. We didn't even see Zenos until the literal last cutscene of 3.56

[maiden lodge]

I don't even know we'll be fighting Zodiark.

[pine epoch]

Zodiark being the accessories ex trial

[gaunt star]

The Sound weapons

[unique verge]

I seriously doubt if The Sound is an entity, that it will be gone in 6.0

that would be ridiculous

[forest magnet]

it will be

it's literally on the slide

[wary perch]

Why are we expecting th cause of th final days in 6.0 though?

[maiden lodge]

The cause of the FInal Days is not sticking around past 6.0, if it's about the Final Days.

[pine epoch]

Well the plot of 6.0 has what caused the final days as one of the key plot points

[wary perch]

Closing the hvz sorry doesn't mean we will deal with the cause

[maiden lodge]

They're ending it. That means no 'This carries forward into 6.3' nonsense.

[viscid monolith]

Because frankly the Final Days plot needs to be rapped in 6.0

[gaunt star]

Gonna wrestle the apocalyptic threat

[deep roost]

Jupiter Behemoth or Lunar Cry I'm guessing for either for the source of the sound.

[forest magnet]

top right

[maiden lodge]

Closing HvZ means dealing with the cause when they mention that the cause of the Final Days is integral to the story.

[forest magnet]

🙄

"What brought about the final days"

[maiden lodge]

People gotta watch the presentation, it tells us a lot of what shits about

[forest magnet]

hmmm

HMMMMMM

[unique verge]

"What brought about the Final Days", in your eyes, is literally "The Sound is the 6.0 endboss"

wut

[wary perch]

They will explain what cause the final day but I doubt we will be dealing with the cause in 6.0

6.3 probably

[forest magnet]

the sound is what we call it because it's literally all we know on what caused the Final Days

[viscid monolith]

I don't think the moon will be the final zone and don't think Zenos will even go to the moon

[maiden lodge]

If it's not, it's a trial on the way. The cause of the final days isn't going to linger past the story where we solve it

[pine epoch]

I'm going to say this the nicest way possible as well Dis. If ilsabard ends up being gimped with only 1 zone. 2 at the most. You can expect to hear me till 14 ends for there to be a ilsabard 2 expansion. And no matter what you say will turn me away from this course. If the clouds dont get removed especially I will fucking double this into a crusade

[maiden lodge]

They LITERALLY said they're not doing this.

There is NO 'the story actually ends in x.3' for Endwalker.

There's no holdovers.

[unique verge]

Where have they "LITERALLY" said that

[forest magnet]

I mean it's on the slide that we'll be tackling on what caused the Final Days, and in Amaurot we're given "The Sound" as what started it.

[viscid monolith]

They said 6.1 is the start of a new story

[unique verge]

because what they have literally said, from my recollection, is that 6.0 ends HvsZ

[maiden lodge]

During the presentation. Endwalker's story ends in 6.0. That's it.

[pine epoch]

During the announcement stream they said 6.0 will be the end

When 6.0 ends that's it for the expansion and 6.1 will be season 2

[gaunt star]

x.1 moving forward will be a completely new arc

[pine epoch]

Starting new

[maiden lodge]

They explicitly said that unlike previous expansions, they're NOT doing a continuation of Endwalker's story into 6.3.

ANd because the cause of the final days is hard confirmed as part of 6.0, it ain't lingering past.

[unique verge]

Yeah i dont buy this logic whatsoever

[gaunt star]

Aka banquet questline 2: electric boogaloo

[deep roost]

I hope we get a killer FMV like Flames of Truth, at the end of 6.0

[carmine prairie]

Do we have the interview anywhere with Yoshi-p clarifying they won't be making it so healers and shield healers won't be separated in que

[maiden lodge]

So Yoshi P is wrong then, got it.

[forest magnet]

Like how ppl thought Yoshi-P was lying when he deconfirmed Forspoken

[unique verge]

"What caused the final days?" -> "We're going to kill the cause of the final days"

[maiden lodge]

I don't understand how 'the story ends in 6.0' doesn't make sense to you.

[unique verge]

By your logic

[gaunt star]

fandaniel caused it

[tulip geyser]

We may not solve the Sound issue and be forced to kick the can down the road another few thousand years.

[maiden lodge]

'Okay but this part will continue'

[carmine prairie]

Giving it looks like the entire world is burning

[maiden lodge]

No it won't.

[unique verge]

All elements of the story related to 6.0 must end at the end of 6.0

[forest magnet]

The Sound is integral to the HvZ story

[maiden lodge]

The story of 6.0 is about dealing with the Final Days.

[carmine prairie]

I suspect the next big story line will be migration to the new world

[wary perch]

@maiden lodge 6.0 is dealing with hvz and closed the saga but 6.3 is dealing with the cause of the final day which has nothing to do with hvz though imo

[viscid monolith]

I don't care if there's a trial or not. We're finding out what caused the Final Days and that will be that.

[maiden lodge]

No it's not.

[unique verge]

Thus all main characters will die at the end of 6.0, because tehy were related to 6.0

[gaunt star]

I love slippery slopes

[maiden lodge]

I swear some of you don't even play this game, we already know it's about the FInal Days, we fuckin knew it because 5.4 said it was

[viscid monolith]

Balmerick you're being dumb and bad. Go take a cold shower.

[deep roost]

ok now ur just trolling

Lol

[carmine prairie]

Yah 5.4 goes on about the final days

But their is still a lot of mystery about it

Like who were the others who followed Azyeme

[forest magnet]

The final days is part of the HvZ arc

[pine epoch]

Without the final days hvz wouldn't exist

[carmine prairie]

My theory is the twelve are the other followers

[maiden lodge]

5.3: 'This is about the final fate of our star'
5.4: 'I'm here to bring everything to an end'
Yoshi-P: 'Why is the FInal Days coming? What does this mean?' *cinematic showing terminus creatures and the final days.'

People here right now: 'Endwalker is not about the Final Days.'

Sorry, I can't even.

[forest magnet]

Obviously their reincarnated souls are the Scions

I'm half joking I wouldn't be surprised if they actually did that

[carmine prairie]

Azyema representing azyeme

[maiden lodge]

welcome to one of the original speculations in lore

[spiral mica]

ill be so annoyed if this turns out to be the route they take

[carmine prairie]

I don't think the scions will all die this expansion

[deep roost]

I just hope they dont pull a Cataclysm at the end with the sucess of the 2nd coming. I dont want to have Fandaniel be another Kefka.

[carmine prairie]

I suspect thancred will

And Y'shtola will have another fake out

[wary perch]

Fandaniel can cause the final days without having anything to do with the what cause the original final day though

[carmine prairie]

Maybe Matoya will die

Going out like a boss

[maiden lodge]

Except we know that's not the case.

We know, factually, the original final days is part of 6.0's story.

[unique verge]

So now we're going to, in one X.0 cycle -
Kill / Eliminate the two OG primals H and Z
Kill / Eliminate Zenos / Fandaniel
Kill / Eliminate (an entity that seems analagous to Lavos)

That seems like way too fucking much to think we're going to do in one X.0 cycle, sorry.

[maiden lodge]

No one says we're going to eliminate H and/or Z.

[carmine prairie]

The story shouldn't be anything to worry about

Giving who is writing it

https://www.fanbyte.com/features/lead-shadowbringers-writer-natsuko-ishikawa-returns-for-ffxiv-endwalker/

[gaunt star]

repost again

[maiden lodge]

Honestly, Yoshi-P's presentation actually suggests removing the Eldest Primals might not even be a thing.

[deep roost]

also creation magics are sealed right? so terminus beast should be replaced by something equally terrifying from Fandaniel.

[spiral mica]

XD

[carmine prairie]

Didn't know that was posted already lmao

[kind lark]

whose writing it?

[maiden lodge]

Ishikawa

[carmine prairie]

The writer of shadow bringer and heavensward

[spiral mica]

our lord and savior Ishikawa, of course

[maiden lodge]

half right

[wary perch]

@maiden lodge I will agree to disagree and see what will the story bring us in fall 2021

[maiden lodge]

lead writer for shadowbringer, co-lead for stormblood

[maiden lodge]

Have you even watched the presentation Yoshi P gave?

I'm not saying that to be dickish, I just want to know if I remember correctly whether you had or not

[carmine prairie]

Saga is ending and an all new saga will start

[kind lark]

Who needs a story when you can farm?

[carmine prairie]

Meaning we are gonna enter a whole new story line

[wary perch]

He said the story will tell what caused the final days and I just don't think we will be dealing with it yet

[carmine prairie]

I suspect exploration of the new world

[maiden lodge]

Did you see the presentation?

[gaunt star]

the story is about dealing with the final days

[maiden lodge]

Because he said more than that.

[deep roost]

"since we know yoship is a liar, his presentation is a reverse of everything"

[carmine prairie]

Maybe something goes down with the alliance

[gaunt star]

since they are occuring again

[carmine prairie]

Now that garamald is gone

Nothing to keep the peace anymore

[wary perch]

Just like revealing hydaelyn and zordiak purpose in 5.0 doesn't mean we are dealing with them in shb

[carmine prairie]

Gridania can go back to its antagonistic behavior towards Ali Mhigo

[kind lark]

The dusk elves will do a revolution

[deep roost]

We can revive the great serpent of Ronka as our new deity

[maiden lodge]

We might not need to 'deal with them' in the sense of combat at all. The resolution of this conflict might not involving fighting either of them.

[carmine prairie]

Things I think could be interesting story lines

Obviously looks like we are about to have another calamity

Resources will be hard to come across

Twelves wood might catch fire again maybe something happens with the elementals

[tulip geyser]

Crystalmom and Crystaldad get marriage counciling

[pine epoch]

The greatest lie ever told was shb na eu fanfest saying the story would be about taking down the garlean empire. Which only became true technically by 5.0 ending or 5.1 solo instance. But not by our hand.

[forest magnet]

I don't think they'd have any reason to lie about which patch the story would end

[maiden lodge]

But bottom line--the FInal Days IS a part of H+Z arc, and has been since 5.0. It's core to Endwalker, as we are told. If you believe they're keeping it in the back pocket for 6.1, when they told us, explicitly, they're not keeping anything in their back pocket for 6.1 in that regard, well, buy my bridges, mate, I got a ton to sell ya.

[wary perch]

Then why are you expecting we will be fighting whatever caused the original final day@maiden lodge

If apply the same logic to my example

[carmine prairie]

We do kinda have hints of an existing threat

[deep roost]

the sound could come from deep space

[carmine prairie]

That could appear

What ever the dragons fought

Before appearing on Hydlien were omega came from

[spiral mica]

The goddamn H/Z story arc is gonna end. that means, however they have the resolution of its various elements, they are going to be resolved. that means no more sound, final days, rejoinings, etc. \

its done

[maiden lodge]

Because the story's about the FInal Days. It's about resolving the last remaining mysteries. Fandaniel's goal isn't to do 'Zodiark things' and we literally defeated the last remnant of those doing that. Rejoinings are over as a threat. Zodiark is resolved. So what's left except for the original Calamity, the one Fandaniel's trying to cause?

[spiral mica]

none of that shit is gonna be kept in hte back pocket for later

[carmine prairie]

Zodiark caused the finals days...

Thats been confirmed for awhile

[unique verge]

wut

[forest magnet]

Huh?

[spiral mica]

no

[unique verge]

no

[tulip geyser]

Has it?

[maiden lodge]

puttin the cart before the horse there bud

[unique verge]

lmao

[carmine prairie]

Well the fight between hydlien and zodiarc

[spiral mica]

he didnt

[deep roost]

lol

[forest magnet]

What are you smoking

[gaunt star]

He was the response to the final days

[forest magnet]

Learn to spell.

[wary perch]

No zordiak didn't caused it

[maiden lodge]

might want to replay 5.0 and 5.2 there chumeroo

[spiral mica]

zodiark was summoned BECAUSE of it

to stop it

[wary perch]

Unless zordiak is like xenohart where multiple copy of him exist

[carmine prairie]

They kept sacrifice people to him to contain it

And then Hydlien was summoned in response

They fought which brought the destruction

[unique verge]

.....

[forest magnet]

i mean they do now

[gaunt star]

What

[unique verge]

Did you skip all of 5.0 holy shit

[forest magnet]

Did you even pay attention to the story

[maiden lodge]

That's the opposite of Zodiark causing the FInal Days. That's the FInal Days coming before Zodiark.

[forest magnet]

Because what you're saying right now makes u think u might have a few screws loose up there

[spiral mica]

Zodiark literally ended the final days

[maiden lodge]

Here's the order:
Rocks fall everyone dies
Holy shit, move out all Z for great salvation
Holy shit Z keeps eating people, better send in the Great Divider H-bomb

[gaunt star]

This is why critical analysis is important

[wary perch]

Like corporal form caused final day and make ascian summon his aetherial form or something and plan to merge together but got kicked by hydaelyn lol

[tulip geyser]

Ive heard that before and it still doesnt make any sense. If that was the case, why even bother to save the world when he could have just kept eating it

[maiden lodge]

But yeah, not sure why people think Zodiark's gonna be the big bad when Zodiark can't be brought back because the Great Rejoining is OVER.

[wary perch]

Yea me neither

That's why I don't understand why people said zordiak caused the final day

[deep roost]

Amourtines basically destroyed themselves by having their creation magic run rampant from 'fear'. The unknown sound is what triggered their fear. It's a precursor but the sound itself didnt result in the end of days. The sound as a story plot could be discovered in 6.0 but may not be resolved in 6.0. It may be a new story element beyond 6.0

[unique verge]

The only reason for anyone to say that is they literally skipped all of 5.0

[maiden lodge]

That's like saying 'The Terminus Beast weren't the final days' It's all connected, into one thing. The Sound is a symptom, not a cause.

The Final Days -itself- is the mystery.

[tulip geyser]

I dont get that either. Its basically saying an Ancient never ever became scared before the Final Days

[maiden lodge]

The Sound isn't some ruddy antagonistic thing--it's a symptom of the FInal Days.

[forest magnet]

Or it could be the cause of the Final Days

we don't know

[maiden lodge]

Ending the cause of the Final Days trumps its effects, the Sound, the Terminus, Therion, rocks falling, all of it

[subtle pasture]

Like the Sound isn’t so much the source as literally all we got is, whatever the cause was, it made a big sound

[maiden lodge]

Or it's just a sound.

It's not a Sound, it's just the noise that is made when reality tears.

It's never, at any point in the narrative, made a proper noun. That's us, that's fanon.

And we, speculating, might be giving 'The Sound' FAR more narrative weight than the story bothered to.

[deep roost]

Lunar Cry?

[maiden lodge]

Final Days is a proper noun. The noise made when their magic stops working right is not.

[forest magnet]

So?

[maiden lodge]

That is enough to show where the emphasis is, narratively.

[forest magnet]

Ok

[spiral mica]

iirc, their magic stopped working right when they heard the sound

not the other way around

[maiden lodge]

Right, but the sound isn't the narrative focus here.

[forest magnet]

But the sound is more convient to refer to than 'the cause of the final days'

[spiral mica]

sure

[maiden lodge]

Yes, it's convenient, but it also gives people thinking it's important when it's not.

[heady shadow]

didnt stop woprking

it went nuts

[maiden lodge]

Potato, Potahto.

[forest magnet]

Anyways

[spiral mica]

all we know is, whatever caused the final days was SOMETHING, and it made a sound. Ancients heard the sound, and were driven mad. Creation magic goes haywire, and boom, apocalypse

[severe brook]

it has seemed pretty consistent that the sound came first

and led to the final days

so by my reckoning, at least, the sound is the mechanism by which the final days kicks itself off

[maiden lodge]

Except we know that there were other signs as well, besides the sound.

There were monsters just showing up in the middle of nowhere.

Archeotania.

[severe brook]

the monsters showing up came after, i'd thought

[maiden lodge]

before the Sound.

[forest magnet]

Hydaelyn sundered the world because it turns out if people dont' have creation magic they can't make the creatures of the Final Days

[severe brook]

the sound didn't hit the whole planet at once

[forest magnet]

so it was a 2 birds one stone thing

[severe brook]

it started in specific areas and then spread out

[forest magnet]

u trap zodiark

[maiden lodge]

If the Sound were important, Emet-selch would have made some mention of it in the Amaurot dungeon.

It's not.

[forest magnet]

and u fix the final days

[spiral mica]

thats an assumption

[unique verge]

The final days were already fixed though.

[maiden lodge]

No that's actual critical analysis.

[unique verge]

Hydaelyn's sundering had nothing to do with that

[severe brook]

with the monsters appearing in farther off reaches and then both sound and monsters spreading out to reach amaurot

[spiral mica]

im sure there are LOTS of important things Emet didnt specifically tell us

[forest magnet]

tbf he makes no mention of the source of the final days or what caused it that doesn't mean it's not narratively important

[maiden lodge]

Emet is telling a story in there--the story of HOW the final days came about

[gaunt star]

The world was fixed post-zodiark Emet even mentions that the source returned to normal

[forest magnet]

he just said "well ppl lost control of creation magic"

that's literally it

[spiral mica]

no, he is telling a story about what happened during the final days

[forest magnet]

not what caused it

[severe brook]

once the monsters and disasters were happening, then the 'resonance cascade' had begun

the sound was not necessary

because it had already kicked things off

[spiral mica]

he makes NO mention, AT ALL EVER, about its origin

[maiden lodge]

He doesn't mention the sound--which means the SOUND is not the narrative focus. It's more important to focus on what he does say: That their fears became manifest, that beast and claw came out to rend them, and that their sins came forth to destroy them.

[unique verge]

Woah. Woah now. The final days were a resonance cascade? ENDWALKER IS HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED.

[maiden lodge]

The sound is just what happened locally when someone's magic went cockeye.

But there's so much more going on

[spiral mica]

the sound is what MAKES a persons magic go fucky

[maiden lodge]

That for two years, we literally fixated on the Sound, and ignored the Beast and CLaw, and ignored the Sins coming forth.

[gaunt star]

The sound was Tataru screaming at Alphinaud for spending Scion funds again, it was so loud and powerful that it broke space time and could be heard in the past

[subtle pasture]

I think I mentioned it before, “the Sound” is just faster to write than “the thing that made a sound in a far flung settlement of the ancients”

[gaunt star]

Told you tataru was the threat

[maiden lodge]

So what? This would be just as true if it were the sound of reality itself deforming, as if it were some magic force of wild magic itself.

[unique verge]

inb4 "The Sound" was literally just some asshole cranking his speakers to 11 and playing shitty music

[severe brook]

this is why i was calling the cause of the final days The Source of the Sound instead of just the Sound

[regal lantern]

So Ishikawa is writing EW, looks like EW will be yet another emotional story and might feel a repeat of 5.0/5.3

[maiden lodge]

Except in the former, the sound is itself an effect, and in the latter, it's a cause. But the information we have cannot differentiate between the two.

[severe brook]

so we'd be able to avoid these problems

[deep roost]

The sound was Taratu yelling at people ripping them a new one.. which caused their anxiety to rise and have their creation magics run rampant

[subtle pasture]

All the reports could bring back on the cause was “a sound,” iirc

[severe brook]

^

[maiden lodge]

Again though, this gives too much narrative heft to the noise. And it distracts from what Emet actually tells us.

It doesn't explain Archeotania, it doesn't explain 'beast and claw', it doesn't explain their sins coming forth to end them

[spiral mica]

the only thing we have, IN GAME, is an NPC telling us that there is some sound coming out of the ground, and whoever hears it is driven mad and loses control of their creation magic. anything else above and beyond that, is speculation, including the assumption as to the nature of the sound, or if it was the result or cause of magic fuckery

[maiden lodge]

We also have Emet-selch telling us a story. Look, I know Amarout is a longass dungeon, but there's more going on in there than aoeing down terminus beasts.

[spiral mica]

it DOES explain beast and claw. thats the shit your mind thinks of when it hears the sound

[severe brook]

zenos getting his new sword

[maiden lodge]

Except Archeotania, and such, predates the sound

[spiral mica]

because YOU made it after you went crazy with terror

[maiden lodge]

Monsters showed up before the sound was making magic directly fucked up.

[spiral mica]

you dont know that

[severe brook]

i'm still guessing that the sound started small in different areas, resulting in isolated incidents

[tulip geyser]

Im curious though- Fancy Daniel seems to be perfectly confident in causing the Final Days again even though humans dont have Creation Magics to spread the chaos readily. Does this just mean that the symptoms will simply be different in humans?

[severe brook]

such as Archaeotania

[spiral mica]

you only know they showed up before the sound started reaching the people of Amaurot

[subtle pasture]

Well we do know some terminus beasts could summon their own terminus beasts,

[severe brook]

i mean after all, why not call Archaeotania the First Beast then, if it was the first beast?

[subtle pasture]

Such was the bellwether’s abilities

[spiral mica]

what Blitz said is also my interpretation

[pine epoch]

If I remember the chain of events the sound moved slowly across the world. And other people lost control of the magicks but it didnt arrive in amaurot until the very end. So the ancients used that time and captured archaeotania to study it

[maiden lodge]

Yes, we do. Lahabrea investigates Archeotania, and the cause is unknown, and he must speculate that it is caused by creation magic gone awry--which is not the conclusion one comes to when one's creation magic is constantly going weird because of an obvious keening noise.

We also know there's other shit going down

[severe brook]

archaeotania also first appeared very far off from Amaurot

[spiral mica]

because they werent aware of the noise yet. its like, one of their first clues that something was going wrong

[maiden lodge]

Azem goes out and investigates it, you know--grapes

[severe brook]

and the Sound took a while to reach Amaurot

i think the volcano incident is meant to have been far before the Final Days

or at least a separate event

showing us what the average lives of the Convocation were like

[gaunt star]

The volcano is post summoning zodiark

[spiral mica]

in fact, you might say that it was even what started their investigation that lead to them discovering the sound and getting fucked by it

[maiden lodge]

It can't be that long before the Final Days, because Elidibus was on the Convocation at the time.

[wary perch]

@gaunt star no it's before

[unique verge]

What does that have to do with the timeline?

[subtle pasture]

Yeah, before, because Azem is still in the Convocation during the Ifrita incident

[deep roost]

Lots of story to tell from a pre-sundered Source.

[gaunt star]

Fair enough misremembered

[severe brook]

because elidibus is still very young

and was still very young when he became the Heart

[maiden lodge]

Also, actually....

[maiden lodge]

This is correct.

"This was soon after Zodiark became the will of the star, and our Final Days were averted. The people were divided, unable to decide what to do with the future that now stretched out before them. Many wished to trade the new life which had sprung forth to reclaim those lost in sacrifice to Zodiark. No small number, however, insisted that the fate of our world should be entrusted to those selfsame freshly minted souls. All were at our wits' end."

[subtle pasture]

Okay but ancient ages are still weird

[unique verge]

Ancients were like, functionally semi-near-immortal, so that's not actually meaningful

[severe brook]

that's not from the volcano event

that's from elidibus ejecting himself

[tulip geyser]

I think theres a small time jump in the story

[severe brook]

the volcano is a flashback to before that

[unique verge]

Kind of like how the child-like dragon whelps we see in-game are 100-ish years old

[subtle pasture]

Yeah the Ifrita incident is before Zodiark, because Elidibus is still, well, himself

[wary perch]

@severe brook they didn't mention elidibus age though so maybe or may not be since in-game characters appearance doesn't tell the age accurately

[subtle pasture]

I think they’re in their 600-700’a

[maiden lodge]

Oh hang on, you're right, it's the first time he showed after the summoning

[severe brook]

That's the sort of person Elidibus was; eager to fulfill his duty, he also respected and admired the Convocation more than any other. To many of us, he was as a younger brother of sorts. And when it became clear that he was the most suitable candidate for Zodiark's heart, it mattered not how strong our resolve... There was none among us who did not waver.

Could there have been any greater shock, then, than our subsequent reunion?

This was soon after Zodiark became the will of the star, and our Final Days were averted. The people were divided, unable to decide what to do with the future that now stretched out before them. Many wished to trade the new life which had sprung forth to reclaim those lost in sacrifice to Zodiark. No small number, however, insisted that the fate of our world should be entrusted to those selfsame freshly minted souls. All were at our wits' end.

literally right before that

there is a timeskip

[maiden lodge]

Yeah I caught it

[severe brook]

they don't outright say elidibus' age but we can tell he's younger compared to the other convocation because of how earnest and idealistic he is

and that carries over even to ejecting himself from zodiark

[subtle pasture]

Yeah, and I don’t get why people take “he was the youngest member” to automatically mean “he was a child”

[severe brook]

yeah i should clarify

he's not a kid

he's like the ancient equivalent of 18-22

[wary perch]

@severe brook I mean the age when he appear in the volcano story and the age he become zordiak's heart

[severe brook]

since his mannerisms appear rather similar i'd assume not much time has passed

[deep roost]

explicitly no they also pull his lore from other games. There was a child set to never age in Zodiarks original game.

[spiral mica]

thats something i find interesting. it shows that even after becoming the heart of the primal, elidibus, and presumably venat, retained an awareness of themselves, separate from the entity they "became"

[severe brook]

"Fear...not... You will make...the right choice. And I will see it through."
actually i'd argue it's less that he retained consciousness

and more that he regained it after ejecting

that sentence's phrasing feels like someone coming to

with the pauses in it

[spiral mica]

then how would he choose to eject, had he not has a measure of self awareness?

[tulip geyser]

And Zodiark was apparently chill with it which is interesting too

[subtle pasture]

Per Venat’s own words we had before confirming Elidibus as the Heart of Zodiark, “The form I take shall ever be my own.”

[severe brook]

because zodiark chose to eject him

because the people are more inclined to listen to one of their own

[spiral mica]

hmmmm, interesting thought

[severe brook]

rather than the neon god they made

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fWyzwo1xg0

[subtle pasture]

Right, for me it’s like...

[maiden lodge]

Not quote. Elidibus in Dark Dungeon was just... like a summoner, not a real story, who summons Zodiark (which can be learned like blue magic by a summoner)

Zodiark, however, in 12, was imprisoned as an infant because it had too much power as a Scion of Light, and the Occuria feared it.

[subtle pasture]

Can you say this is truly Elidibus

Or a shade the heart made

[severe brook]

both

it is elidibus' aether

[unique verge]

Imagine not using the Disturbed version

[severe brook]

and what's left of his body and mind

but he's so immersed in zodiark's aether

that even though it's his original body, he's basically been taken apart and put back together

[kind lark]

Imagine using the disturbed version

[subtle pasture]

Aye, a Ship of Theseus moment

[severe brook]

less ship of theseus

more star trek teleporter

the same pieces are there

but you've taken them apart and put them back together

[maiden lodge]

Hrm

Emet-selch might come back.

[tulip geyser]

Seems like the route of least resistance would have been to temper all the other people but Zodiark seems to have kept that to the Convocation - hence all the infighting between the peoples- and just let Elidibus try to talk it out. So it makes me think Zodiark does like, try to care

[severe brook]

dis no

[maiden lodge]

Nope, there's evidence for this

[severe brook]

no

the most he's coming back is as some sort of spectral keeper of the afterlife

[serene crest]

At the very least he's probably going to be our narrator.

[subtle pasture]

Well that’s the expanded ship of Theseus, what if you took the old pieces and made them into another boat, would this boat be his ship, or the one that’s all new parts

[spiral mica]

although, as per Elidibus own words: "Reconciliation, Elidibus. I was needed, so I withdrew MYSELF from Zodiark. For them"

[maiden lodge]

Oh no, he can come back.

[subtle pasture]

How they’re both functionally his ship— they’re both Elidibus

[spiral mica]

this shows a self awareness

he is taking ownership of the act

[severe brook]

or those are new memories put in him by the ejection to justify his new mission of easing dissent

[spiral mica]

he says that after being "killed" in his primal form tho

he has a moment of clarity after seeing the stones

[severe brook]

that wouldn't mean the memories aren't there

[spiral mica]

like, he remembers

[maiden lodge]

Now my charms are all o'erthrown,
And what strength I have's mine own,
Which is most faint, as is my breath
That quavers here at brink of death.

'Twas e'er my fate to wager all
For that which wrought my brothers' fall, (This is plural and past tense, which means after Elidibus falls)
And thus the aether beckons me
To depths of black eternity,

To dream of things long lost and gone,
And futures which might yet be won─
Though not by me, lest you mistake,
For others wait, the stage to take,

And while their worth is far from sure,
I bid the falling curtain─pause.
Let "encore" be my final word,
Their epilogue to death preferred -> This is literally saying Emet's not done yet.

[subtle pasture]

As Venat said before she became Hydaelyn, “the form I take shall ever be my own.” but it’s like, well, how can anyone argue with “you” that you’re not “you”

[severe brook]

i took that to be referring to the events in Seat of Sacrifice

with the poem representing his thoughts when killed at the Dying Gasp

[maiden lodge]

Brothers is plural.

[tulip geyser]

I fully expect him to narrate the zones via the crystal and tell us a bit about our Ancient selves but that will be it

[maiden lodge]

It's Lahabrea and Elidibus's fall he speaks of.

[severe brook]

lahabrea having fallen before

elidibus about to fall after

[maiden lodge]

Then he cannot speak of what caused his brothers' fall, in the past tense, because that had not happened yet.

[gaunt star]

Time to pluck Emet out the aetherial sea

[severe brook]

or his fate was to attempt to gamble on us

who brings about their fall

[maiden lodge]

Except it's past tense