retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[timid crystal]

Is Demi even a word anymore at this point

[silk dragon]

for the knights of round it would work like this one knight at a time then the ultmate end for the final atack

[exotic copper]

and all of them kill you instantly

[silk dragon]

i mean to the enemy

however i would like to see a trait where EGIs are upgraed to Demi sumons

[exotic copper]

isn't that bahamut

and phoenix

[silk dragon]

yes but for first sumons you get i mean

[exotic copper]

ah you mean ifrit and garuda?

[silk dragon]

yes

[exotic copper]

Would be cool glamours.

I wold like a titan summon.

[craggy gale]

astral chain job

[silk dragon]

not glamors a acual upgrade

[gaunt star]

Warring Triad egis

[silk dragon]

like a job trait

[exotic copper]

okay but like

what would that do

[silk dragon]

makes the egi into a Demi sumon but the drawback is they cant be on the battlefield for too long

[exotic copper]

so literally phoenix and bahamut

[silk dragon]

yes

[exotic copper]

so... glamours.

[silk dragon]

not glamors

[exotic copper]

if they do the same thing

[silk dragon]

thers a big difrence

[exotic copper]

they don't need to be implemented as different spells

[silk dragon]

whats why i said as a job trait

[exotic copper]

no you're not understanding

what does garuda and ifrit do

that phoenix and baha dont

[gaunt star]

I can’t wait for SMN’s rotation to become 5 minutes long

[exotic copper]

eventually smns will have a 13 minute rotation and will complain when the fight it too short to finish

[silk dragon]

garuda does wind atacks Duh

[exotic copper]

so like, elemental resistances dont matter

[gaunt star]

Sadge I couldn’t enter Alexander trance

[exotic copper]

so its a glamour

[silk dragon]

not a glamor

[limber pivot]

i haven't leveled SMN but is Garuda not for AOEs?

[silk dragon]

the Egis would be upgraded

[gaunt star]

Garuda is aoe

[exotic copper]

but they would be temporary, like the existing big summons

which means

you just use the existing big summons

[limber pivot]

Cyneler do you want the tiny egis just to look cooler for SMN in END?

[exotic copper]

like what are you bringing that is NOT appearance

[limber pivot]

is that what you are getting at?

[silk dragon]

yes to give the idea of progression

[exotic copper]

thats a glamour

[limber pivot]

omg no it isnt

[exotic copper]

"i want to look cool" "you mean like a glamor?" "no i want to look cool"

[limber pivot]

potency increase to the egis

[silk dragon]

^

[limber pivot]

AND it changes their looks

[exotic copper]

No he wants the egis reworked

To be exactly what phoenix and baha are

[gaunt star]

Why not just make the trait make the egis into Demis permanently with a buff to the enkindle spells then they get tossed aside like they usually do for Baha and Phoenix?

[exotic copper]

but look different

[silk dragon]

thank you thats what i was trying to get across

[exotic copper]

"i want this thing that exists, but to look different" "you mean like a glamour" "no"

[limber pivot]

you know how GNB has the OCD that upgrades at lvl 80?

[silk dragon]

or MCH has a robot for a upgrade?

[limber pivot]

Cyneler just wants the Egis to have a potency increase at lvl 90 or something

and their visuals to change with it

[kind lark]

That robot does look cool

[exotic copper]

no you're not using your brain

[limber pivot]

robot is more in depth bc it changes the mechs

[exotic copper]

like baha and phoenix EXIST

there is a TEMPLATE for them to USE

[limber pivot]

you really don't get it do you

[exotic copper]

I really do

You want a glamour.

[limber pivot]

ehh basically

potency increase / glamour

[silk dragon]

nope just an Upgrade to past sumons

[next quarry]

I don't want bigger summons

They just take up the screen

[exotic copper]

then use the GLAMOUR

to make them SMALL

[limber pivot]

me when someone DOESNT WANT HUGE ALEXANDER SUMMON

REEEEE

[next quarry]

You can't even shrink Phoenix

I can't glam over other people's summons

[gaunt star]

More big summons

[silk dragon]

look how WHM got there attacks changed via traits in SHB

[limber pivot]

no there is a command to change Bahamut size

[gaunt star]

Let me live me summoner dreams

[limber pivot]

not really glamour tho

[exotic copper]

But whm didn't have attacks that did the same thing already

their unique attacks got upgrades

you're asking for them to recreate the exact same spell

with new looks

thats a glamour

[next quarry]

Glare is an Upgrade to Stone IV

[kind lark]

Reject magic return to fists

[limber pivot]

Stone 2 to Glare

are you stupid

what is different

[next quarry]

Anyway

[silk dragon]

look what do the others think about this EGI upgrade idea

[gaunt star]

I wouldn’t mind

[limber pivot]

i think it would be cool

[exotic copper]

lmao its just a glamour, and I'm all for more glamours.

[limber pivot]

😂

[exotic copper]

But calling it a mechanic is not correct.

[limber pivot]

you make no sense bro

not a mechanic a trait

[silk dragon]

to you that is but its a upgrade

[exotic copper]

okay so imagine that white mage

had stone and stone 4

and they said "stone is now glare!"

and you still had stone 4

[silk dragon]

not really

[limber pivot]

you dont have stone 4

[silk dragon]

the trait changed

[exotic copper]

then you said "hey stone 4 should be also glare, but puple"

[limber pivot]

what

[exotic copper]

bahamut and phoenix

do exactly what cyneler wants

he wants the base summons

to do bahamut

and phoenix

[next quarry]

No

[limber pivot]

no he doesnt

omg you do not get it

[exotic copper]

@silk dragon EXPLAIN

[next quarry]

He just wants the summons to do more damage

[limber pivot]

I'VE EXPLAINED IT FOR YOU

[silk dragon]

yes that

[limber pivot]

just a potency buff

thats it

[exotic copper]

NO

FUCK YOU

THATS WHAT YOU SAID

[silk dragon]

whats wrong with that

[limber pivot]

READ THE CHAT MATE

[next quarry]

Anyway

Let's move on

[gaunt star]

Anyway give me demi-anima

[exotic copper]

bahamut and phoenix ARE THAT

a potency increase to egis is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT

[ruby hull]

I wish base egi size scaled like it does in Aion Summoner

[exotic copper]

THAN

[limber pivot]

BUT THEN LATER they corrected themselves

https://i.imgur.com/2SDFskp.png

[silk dragon]

its trade off okay

[exotic copper]

NO SE

[limber pivot]

they just didn't know how to say it

[exotic copper]

he still wants it that way

[silk dragon]

to make sumoners like in classic FF games

[exotic copper]

SEE

[limber pivot]

oh

im so sorry Elrek

[exotic copper]

i'm not crazy

[limber pivot]

yea idk if Summons could work like that

[distant sonnet]

Egis should just be gone. Summoner attacks should have them appear and disappear. Like Ifrit's claw appearing and swiping.

[maiden lodge]

you mean with obscenely long cast times and aoe spells that hit for the same as black magic ok

[distant sonnet]

Bahamut and Phoenix are mostly fine.

[silk dragon]

no to be one off atacks

[exotic copper]

the design is shifting towards timed duration summons anyway, in fact it's already here

[limber pivot]

but the Egis cant go

they are classic

[maiden lodge]

They can't really get rid of egis, no, the job's too wrapped up in them

[silk dragon]

i guess i didnt explain why Egis needed to be Demis

for a buff not just visuals

[distant sonnet]

It isn't. You can turn the whole job into a proper summoner if you let them go

[exotic copper]

the problem is youre saying they would despawn because they're stronger

which is exactly why baha and phoenix despawn

which is exactly the role they already play

[limber pivot]

a simple potency buff is all they need

[silk dragon]

like the classic FF Sumons

[maiden lodge]

Yes, if you do something completely different you can get something completely different

[limber pivot]

if you got rid of the Egis that are permanent Summoner loses DPS i assume

[distant sonnet]

What we have now is this weird not dot class not summoner wobbly thing.

Burn it down.

[exotic copper]

numbers can be tuned

and it is very much still a summoner

but if you want to cry about your ff9 summons continue

[limber pivot]

im out peace

[silk dragon]

So if Job quests were still a thing SMN would be about geting new trances

[maiden lodge]

job literally summons an elemental pet with which to do fight with 'This isn't a summoner'

[distant sonnet]

I was thinkin Dissidia 012 Yuna gameplay styled.

I mean a complaint literally since forever has been that Egis dont feel at all like proper FF summons.. So. Yeah.

[maiden lodge]

Last time summoner did temporary oneshot summons was on a ps1

[distant sonnet]

Summoning a pet =/= summoner.

[exotic copper]

uh ff9 was def on ps2

but yeah

[gaunt star]

Well it’s a summoner in 14

[silk dragon]

nope ps1

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, if you took your ps1 disc and stuck it in a ps2 sure

[exotic copper]

oh, probably

[woven escarp]

this is a playstation black disc

[maiden lodge]

but you won't listen to me anyways

[woven escarp]

[maiden lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/reference-captain-america-avengers-understood-gif-7991943

[exotic copper]

I mean, I did say probably. I was like 7.

[distant sonnet]

Again check out Yuna gameplay from Dissidia 012. Could be real damn cool and not have to wrestle with janky pet control.

[exotic copper]

No

I will not

I will continue playing the established game

[maiden lodge]

The big issue is that they really can't easily get rid of egis.

[exotic copper]

I don't think they want to

[distant sonnet]

I feel like they've been moving away from Egis for years now.

[maiden lodge]

Really, they can't, not without completely rewriting a whole fuck ton of quests, and that ain't worth the squeeze

[exotic copper]

I certainly don't want them to

[distant sonnet]

They're largely vestigial in gameplay.

[exotic copper]

I like having a carbuncle

[maiden lodge]

I'm not sure why when the egis are getting more and more incorporated into the kit

[exotic copper]

in fact, I like having a pet class

[woven escarp]

the pets don't even have a micro anymore

[exotic copper]

troo

[woven escarp]

you pres butan, the thing does it automatically

the cooldowns are just part of your rotation

[distant sonnet]

Pretty much.

[exotic copper]

I just like having a little spirit squirrel, my dude

[woven escarp]

which is fine because SE's pet controls fuckin suck

lmao

[maiden lodge]

I mean, that's how a pet class is supposed to work, as opposed to you hit the button and the pet decides to consult the bones as to whether it will do it or not based on a myriad of factors, the state of the wind, etc

[distant sonnet]

Yeah. Janky pet controls have been the issue pretty much from day 1

[exotic copper]

Name a game without jank pet controls

[maiden lodge]

pokemon

[distant sonnet]

And now you just slap a few cooldowns between popping out your big summons.

[maiden lodge]

ZING

[exotic copper]

i was typing "don't say pokemon"

i didn't get there

[maiden lodge]

too sloooow

[woven escarp]

I mean, there was a bunch of annoying shit with managing where the pet is standing and making sure it used heel correctly so it didn't wander out of range while you did mechanics

[exotic copper]

again, name a game where that doesn't happen

[woven escarp]

this one, the pet is superfluous

summoning the pet is functionally a stance lol

[exotic copper]

I meant a game where the pet isn't superfluous but also isn't ridiculous to manage

[distant sonnet]

Everquest, mostly.

[exotic copper]

no dude

lmao

[woven escarp]

XI was pretty bad too

[distant sonnet]

Enchanter, magician, and necromancer pets all functioned pretty reasonably.

[exotic copper]

okay hold on which iteration of EQ

like, current eq

[woven escarp]

but XI had such punishing perpetuation cost that you summoned something, made it do the thing, and then unsummoned it

[exotic copper]

or like, launch eq

[distant sonnet]

Mostly once they added pethold with AAs

[exotic copper]

yeah dude that was a major pita

[distant sonnet]

But more current Tlp versions, I'll admit.

[polar crater]

Lol, this got toxic, kind of like SMN's 9 green magic spells.

[exotic copper]

if your magic is green consult a doctor

[distant sonnet]

Well. That'll happen when people get all up in arms about their radioactive cracksquirrels.

[woven escarp]

how about brown mage?

[exotic copper]

go back to lotr

[woven escarp]

https://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/bestiary.html?fmob=3346

[exotic copper]

oof allakhazam

thottbot

[woven escarp]

I had to search for brown mage and that was the first link that came up 😔

I haven't been to alla since like, 2009 lmao

[maiden lodge]

A pet need not be responsive if it lacks real control

[exotic copper]

speak like a jedi, you do

[distant sonnet]

Sure. But theirs were in line with the class fantasy.

[exotic copper]

so is ifrit and garuda and titan?

[woven escarp]

that's the joke, he just makes you shit the food out

[polar crater]

Bio (1-3), Miasma (1-3), Fester, Bane, Energy Drain/Siphon, Tri-disaster, Dreadwyrm/Firebird Trance (resets Tri), Aetherpact (technically it's a D(ps)oT), Slipstream, Addle. Is anyone still interested in contesting the fact that SMN is a green mage?

[exotic copper]

yes

the title isn't "grn" it's "smn"

owned, libtard

[distant sonnet]

See in a perfect world I feel like you'd cycle the dots to an actual dot class and let summoner stand on summons (and pets fine whatever) alone.

[polar crater]

Hmm, I guess Yuna isn't a white mage then. Athiesm 1, Yevon 0

[exotic copper]

I'm okay witht that

[maiden lodge]

Yes it does something other than applying buffs and debuffs, unlike a green mage, who only applies buffs and debuffs.

[polar crater]

White mage does more than healing.

[distant sonnet]

S'what I was getting at before even more than like, eliminiating egis. Just making their fillers less wobbly.

[exotic copper]

Dragoon has no dragon summon

so its not a real dragoon

[maiden lodge]

Kain not real dragoon confirmed

[distant sonnet]

Dragoon is a Dragon Knight. I don't see summoner in that title anyplace.

[exotic copper]

yeah but they had dragon summons before

so

its not a real dragoon

[distant sonnet]

In 11, once.

As a 2 hour.

[maiden lodge]

They literally only had that in one game and not a lot of people played it

[exotic copper]

yeah but thats my preferred headcannon like dissidia is for you

[distant sonnet]

No one played Drg in 11 get outta here

[gaunt star]

If we aren’t fighting aerial enemies drg is pointless

[distant sonnet]

Really dude?

Stop being a dick.

[exotic copper]

lmao you started it tho?

[distant sonnet]

Attempted discussion in a discussion channel. Shots fired, yall.

[maiden lodge]

Green mage doesn't do more than buffs and debuffs.

[exotic copper]

i was just using your logic on my own admittedly strawman argument

[polar crater]

Trance and Tri-Disaster are the DoT rotation, admitdly it's a short rotation.

[exotic copper]

I don't think that's toxic

[polar crater]

Says who?

[maiden lodge]

Show me a green mage with more than that.

Shouldn't be hard, they're only in one game

[polar crater]

XII

[maiden lodge]

Green mages are not in XII. Green magic is.

And green magic is only buffs and debuffs in 12.

[dawn wave]

xiv doesn’t have to draw from established ideas of existing ff jobs

just look at sage

zero resemblance

[maiden lodge]

And here's the green magic list from FFTA2

[exotic copper]

ninja isn't a tank

[teal geyser]

Speaking of Sage

What's the next Gundam job?

[exotic copper]

whatever those cyclops ones are called

[teal geyser]

Zakus?

[dawn wave]

machinist 2

[exotic copper]

Zakus

[gaunt star]

Bring out the G-Warrior

[exotic copper]

Zakus are the coolest gundam design

[polar crater]

WHM in other games don't have stone or aero or water, so WHM in ffxiv isn't actually whm. @maiden lodge This is not an acceptable argument. If it's only green mage if it's just buff and debuff and NOTHING ELSE then there will NEVER be one in XIV by your standard.

[polar crater]

Idol. We have a musician, a background dancer, we just need a songstress to be up and center.

[teal geyser]

They are pretty good

[maiden lodge]

1: Aero was a white magic before it was anything else, see FF3.
2: The issue you run into is that green magic doesn't bring anything new. Green magic is just white and black magic spells organised a different way. If you have someone with healing magic and the green magic buffs protect and shell--you just have a white mage. if you have someone with destructive magic and the green magic spells sleep, silence, etc... you just have a black mage.

That's the thing with green magic--it has no spells unique to it that don't belong in white or black magic already.

[gaunt star]

cough

The scythe is the gundam class

[maiden lodge]

To put it another way, what's the job fantasy with green mage that you're chasing that you'd want it in this game? And don't say 'uses a mace'

Green mages were shit with maces.

[gaunt star]

Time mage but it’s Tidus laugh as the v-pose

[deft burrow]

melee time mage

[cinder badger]

sees another "new job is scythe" comment

Aw shit! Here we go again.

[deft burrow]

we already have a scythe class

botanist

[gaunt star]

Math checks out

[cinder badger]

@deft burrow to be fair that's a class not a job

[deft burrow]

potato

potato

[cinder badger]

If that were true Rogue needs to be separate from Ninja

[deft burrow]

but it is

[gaunt star]

I’m sure botanist make a good wage

[deft burrow]

island sanctuary is actually just the WoL participating in a drug cartel

[cinder badger]

Hey guys how about this

[exotic copper]

Actually I would love a job that uses maces

[cinder badger]

Who cares what the new job is I believe in yoshi-p

[deft burrow]

I think maces/hammers are boring

also... unlikely maiming class

[exotic copper]

you just told the speculation channel

not to speculate about the thing

[gaunt star]

Let’s not do the thing

[deft burrow]

cause maiming is usually related to bladed weapons, something that can maim

[cinder badger]

@exotic copper but we have speculated on it

[deft burrow]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cinder badger]

Over and over and over and over and over

[exotic copper]

yeah but if you dont retread the same ground until its a trench how are you supposed to fight the war

[cinder badger]

We get it you guys like scythes. They're edgy and kool :3

[deft burrow]

yes they are

everyone should just agree that its scythe and it will be scythe

[exotic copper]

we get it you like lalafel naming conventions, they rhyme

[cinder badger]

I do like to play kayn on League of Legends

[deft burrow]

true

only scythe champ

right?

[exotic copper]

it depends on how you define thresh

[deft burrow]

"hook"

[exotic copper]

technically I think it's a kama with a chain

[deft burrow]

yeah

[cinder badger]

I too like to play akali on League of Legends

[maiden lodge]

Ninjas can only scout, and aim, no maiming allowed. Ninja blades cannot maim, only scout. NO MAIM.

Samurai swords cannot maim, only strike, and slay.

THIS LOGIC IS BAD.

[exotic copper]

those are kama for sure

hand scythe

[deft burrow]

Yes, you're correct

That's for helping the point my guy

[maiden lodge]

Also you can maim with a scythe mate

[deft burrow]

appreciate it

yeah that's the point

maiming = scythe

kinda its thing

[cinder badger]

Can maim with anything

[maiden lodge]

Also you can maim with a hammer

[deft burrow]

no

impossible

[gaunt star]

I can maim with a hammer given enough force

[deft burrow]

ok buddy

[deft burrow]

chill

[maiden lodge]

"wound or injure (someone) so that part of the body is permanently damaged."

[deft burrow]

hammers don't cause permanent injury

[maiden lodge]

You telling me you can't do that with a big fuckoff hammer?

[deft burrow]

you can't cut off a limb

with a hammer

you can break bones

[exotic copper]

these damn kids and these maims

[deft burrow]

but like

that can heal

[cinder badger]

@deft burrow you tell somebody who has their head literally knocked off with a hammer

[deft burrow]

that's not maiming

THAT'S KILLING

[exotic copper]

what do you call a concussion

due to blunt force

[cinder badger]

What if they are immortal

[exotic copper]

that causes permanent brain damage

[maiden lodge]

You can pulverize bones with a hammer bro

[gaunt star]

I can shatter someone’s knee with a hammer that’ll leave permanent damage

[maiden lodge]

Warhammer wounds are naaaaaasty bud

[deft burrow]

Listen all I meant was when you think of maiming you think of cutting

[exotic copper]

warhammers and spears are the deadliest weapons ever invented

[maiden lodge]

No I think of permanent injury.

[deft burrow]

hush

[exotic copper]

i think of memes

[cinder badger]

Okay rack somebody in the grapes with a Warhammer

[maiden lodge]

Also I don't think the name of the armor type has anything to do with anything

[deft burrow]

hmmm

[maiden lodge]

Cause ninjas don't aim

[gaunt star]

I think of person being attacked by Ah animal tbh

[deft burrow]

YES THEY DO

[cinder badger]

Will you call it permanent damage then?

[deft burrow]

they throw shit

they aim

:D

and shoot stuff

[distant sonnet]

Or the names are mostly meaningless and mostly tied to appearance. You want a job to share maiming gear? Focus on its armor, not its weapon.

[exotic copper]

hey you're that ninja

[maiden lodge]

No, they use magic

[deft burrow]

yeah but they have to aim the magic

:D

[cinder badger]

I guarantee you if you hit somebody down there with a hammer any plans of children in the future are completely destroyed

[maiden lodge]

Also white mages can't cast, only heal

NO GLARE ONLY HEAL

[gaunt star]

Not if I’m blindly casting glare

[deft burrow]

ONLY HEAL

[exotic copper]

memeing gear is all armor so like, maces would be good

[cinder badger]

And there are some things you just can't heal

[deft burrow]

Maces are so lame tho

Its just small warrior hammer

[maiden lodge]

I for one would like a flail job

[deft burrow]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[exotic copper]

see the thing is

[maiden lodge]

Flails are fucking sick

[exotic copper]

you're actually lame

[deft burrow]

flail would be pretty cool

[exotic copper]

for not understanding how maces are great

[deft burrow]

maces are just one handed sticks

[cinder badger]

Play dual flail on Assassin's Creed Valhalla

[deft burrow]

change my mind

[distant sonnet]

A warmaul will mess your life up my guy

[exotic copper]

swords are just sticks with sharp edges.

[deft burrow]

but they have sharp edges

[exotic copper]

A spear is a pointy stick.

[deft burrow]

so they are edgy

EDGY

maces aren't edgy

[exotic copper]

A staff is an actual stick

[deft burrow]

therefore cannot be maiming armour

[maiden lodge]

There's more than stick going on

This will tenderize your meat

[gaunt star]

Are you basically invalidating all blunt weaponry?

[exotic copper]

morningstars are pretty edgy

[deft burrow]

maiming armour means you must be edgy

fact

my logic wins

you all have failed

[exotic copper]

its true

you got us

[maiden lodge]

I've never once seen a dragoon permanently injure anyone but themselves

[deft burrow]

LOL

[maiden lodge]

Who are they maiming?

[deft burrow]

maimed themselves

[cinder badger]

Fun fact Paladin's actually favored a mace over a sword because it was believed the only way to kill demons and Undead Abominations was through blunt force

[gaunt star]

They usually aren’t the ones doing maiming

It’s gravity

[exotic copper]

what are you even talking about yaya

[deft burrow]

also because hammers/maces are better against heavily armoured targets

[maiden lodge]

fun fact, historical facts about paladins don't involve demons and undead abominations.

[deft burrow]

Lol

I kinda prefer the demons and undead historical explanation

[exotic copper]

paladins dont exist in history

like wtf

[deft burrow]

templars did

[maiden lodge]

Yes they do.

[heady shadow]

yes they do lol

[gaunt star]

They did, thank the french

[deft burrow]

French

[exotic copper]

Okay but like, the french paladin is not the rpg paladin

[deft burrow]

Yeah they aren't using magic or whatever

[maiden lodge]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin

[deft burrow]

lmao

[limber pivot]

Blackmage doesn't exist like wtf

[exotic copper]

i didn't mean we don't have a word for "paladin" irl

[cinder badger]

@maiden lodge fun fact we're on a Discord server discussing a game set in a fantasy world

[exotic copper]

I mean rpg paladins never existed

[maiden lodge]

Yes we do, it's called 'paladin'

[limber pivot]

they are more like Knights right

[exotic copper]

i know

[limber pivot]

RPG Paladins

[exotic copper]

thats why i said it

[deft burrow]

6.0 is actually the real world

[maiden lodge]

And that fantasy world actually adheres to the formal definition of paladin--a palace knight.

[gaunt star]

No it’s “peers”

[exotic copper]

French paladins are like, gentleman knights

[teal geyser]

It's going to end like FFXIII?

[exotic copper]

like if the knights of the round table were losers

[deft burrow]

wow

rude

[exotic copper]

french paladins suck

[maiden lodge]

Except they actually existed and actually started an empire and shit

[exotic copper]

a shitty empire

[deft burrow]

I prefer the Teutonic Order and their Templars

¯_(ツ)_/¯

just me tho

[maiden lodge]

Can't blame them, blame Karlings.

[exotic copper]

i can blame whoever i want

i''m alive and they're dead

[teal geyser]

I love me a good crusade against unholy infidels

[maiden lodge]

Great knights won't stop a succession war from bratty kids

[deft burrow]

facts

[cinder badger]

@maiden lodge fun fact: sweet dreams are made of this

[exotic copper]

rpg paladin is closer to templar than to french paladin

[maiden lodge]

counter argument: Who had a mind to disagree?

[dim sigil]

Me

[exotic copper]

sweet peas are made of knees

who am i to disagree

[teal geyser]

Words words I don't know the words

[maiden lodge]

Come 3rd edition, sure.

[exotic copper]

dont you try to gygax me

[maiden lodge]

But 1st and 2nd was closer to the myth of the Carolingian knight errant

[exotic copper]

In written form sure

But as far as how people played the class

[maiden lodge]

And again--FF14 -adheres- to the paladin-as-palace knight.

[cinder badger]

@maiden lodge retort: I've traveled the world and the seven seas

[exotic copper]

they treated it as a templar

Because people in the 80s didn't know what a french paladin was

especially 10 year olds

[maiden lodge]

scathing criticism: Everybody is looking for something.

[exotic copper]

someone kick these bards back to linsa

[dim sigil]

To find is to lose and to lose is to find

[maiden lodge]

the book bloody went into them, explaining the history of the job.

The mace-wielding holy templar became a different class.

[exotic copper]

lmao yup

i'm just telling you what actually happened

[maiden lodge]

Cleric is where THAT went

[exotic copper]

like, idk if you were there

but people played paladin like a templar

[maiden lodge]

In the 80s playing D&D? Yes.

[teal geyser]

You're over twice my age

[exotic copper]

shut up zoomer

[maiden lodge]

Likely.

[teal geyser]

Not even likely

[cinder badger]

Can we have a job that moves so fast that is perceptions of time are actually incredibly slow? Just like Quicksilver

[teal geyser]

You HAVE to be

[exotic copper]

dude what is your fascination with that clip

[maiden lodge]

machinist during lag

[cinder badger]

@exotic copper because of the songs they play during both those clips are so catchy and constantly stuck in my head

[shut burrow]

Pls

[exotic copper]

new job is templar

it will use a mac.

[cinder badger]

I mean what would you do if you could store Time in a Bottle

[exotic copper]

a macbook pro.

[teal geyser]

Maces are fucking lame

[maiden lodge]

They won't introduce villainous jobs.

[teal geyser]

I'll be sad if we get a more magic knighty DPS and it uses a mace

I'll be big sad

[exotic copper]

I'll be big happy

partially because i love mace

partially because i love the tears of edgy cringe boys

[cinder badger]

Just give us two curved swords

[maiden lodge]

I'm serious, make it a flail, make the animators cry

[cinder badger]

Curved

Swords

[teal geyser]

Everything thing else is a cringe weapon?

[exotic copper]

no just scythe

[teal geyser]

Pfft

[gaunt star]

So scimitars

[cinder badger]

@gaunt star but have you seen those red guards from hammerfell?

[exotic copper]

falchions are curved, technically

[gaunt star]

So are katanas

[teal geyser]

Tbh I don't want that kind of job to use a scythe either. I'll be fine if they make a scythe job that isn't that though

[gaunt star]

Let sam dual wield

[cinder badger]

No no no I got a better idea

[exotic copper]

i dont want a scythe

[cinder badger]

Let's Samurai triple wield

[gaunt star]

Go back to one piece

[exotic copper]

scythes are dumb and unrealistic, unlike our chad gundam shooters

very realistic

[cinder badger]

Only instead of his mouth he clenches one sword between his ass cheeks

[heady shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/hisagi-shuuhei-bleach-anime-fight-gif-8115944

[exotic copper]

stop posting cringe

[heady shadow]

make me

[exotic copper]

i can't

[gaunt star]

I’m glad I’ve these realistic chakrams that always come back to me when I throw them

[exotic copper]

i'm just advising you to better your personality

[heady shadow]

Hmm

is that advice you dont use?

xD

[exotic copper]

yes

[maiden lodge]

if they're good enough for Xena

[exotic copper]

do as i say not as i do

[cinder badger]

@gaunt star let's use that giant Boomerang Thing Sango uses in InuYasha

[heady shadow]

ye no thanks

[gaunt star]

demon slayer job

[teal geyser]

Scythes are cool designs but I don't like the kinda connotations associated with them

[maiden lodge]

no no let's use the stupid boomerang thing Hope uses in that game everyone hates him in

[cinder badger]

@maiden lodge you mean that game that everybody hates with him in it

[exotic copper]

what cannolis are those @teal geyser

[heady shadow]

boomerang job....

so shai

xD

[cinder badger]

Seriously though I want to know what would you do if you could save time in a bottle

[exotic copper]

rob a bank maybe

[teal geyser]

Eh you know, death, dark magic, what I would describe as "death edge" in general

[exotic copper]

so dark knight

[teal geyser]

Ehhhh

[cinder badger]

The new job will just have us write names in a book and everybody dies

[teal geyser]

Maybe on a surface level

[exotic copper]

their spells

are called

despair

[teal geyser]

But you can very easily see past that in Dark Knight

[exotic copper]

and shit

[cinder badger]

@exotic copper wait there's an actual spell called shit?

What the fuck does it do

[gaunt star]

Their 80 capstone is summoning a manifestation of their negativity

[exotic copper]

yeah its brown magic

[cinder badger]

@exotic copper are you sure it's not green Magic

[exotic copper]

only if you ate something bad

[cinder badger]

I actually want to learn more about fecal Magic

[maiden lodge]

no that's black mage.

literally

[exotic copper]

sorry

"edge of darkness""

[gaunt star]

Scythe job but it’s just Zasalamel in FF

[exotic copper]

"living dead"

"The Blackest Night"

[teal geyser]

Oh idk, I never really subscribed to the whole "Fray is your negativity/evil side" I prefer the more victimised Japanese version of Fray is simply "The part of you that couldn't be a hero"

[craggy pawn]

Scythe job but its phantom from pso2

[cinder badger]

@exotic copper no evil shall Escape my sight

[maiden lodge]

How are people getting that it's negativity at all?

It's your pride.

It's literally your pride.

[gaunt star]

To each their own

[exotic copper]

okay but

"living shadow"

"salted earth"

[gaunt star]

“Blood weapon”

[maiden lodge]

es·teem
/əˈstēm/

noun
respect and admiration, typically for a person.

[gaunt star]

“Souleater”

[exotic copper]

"flood of shadow"

what a totally non-death edge class

[maiden lodge]

Also Dark Knight isn't about negative emotions anyways

[cinder badger]

In Brightest Day in Blackest Night

[maiden lodge]

It's about channeling emotions--positive and negative--into a protective force

[cinder badger]

No evil shall Escape my sight

[exotic copper]

i'm more of a blue lantern

maybe purple

[teal geyser]

But most of all love

[cinder badger]

Let those who worship evils might

[exotic copper]

the argument was never what drk is about

the argument was that drk is an edgy clss

[maiden lodge]

And The Blackest Night isn't a reference to edginess

[exotic copper]

and drk is definitely the edgiest class

[cinder badger]

Beware my power Green Lantern's light

[teal geyser]

It's a different kind of edge though to what I was talking about with scythes

[maiden lodge]

“In your darkest hour, in the blackest night…think of me…and I will be with you. Always. For where else could I go? Who else could I love but you?”

such edge

[limber pivot]

yea i can't really think of a class edgier

but that doesnt mean DRK is super edgy

[exotic copper]

blm is the only contender

i think

[limber pivot]

just because DRK is the edgiest class doesn't mean every single detail is edgy

[teal geyser]

If they love us is that incest?

[limber pivot]

just the dark colors and look of the weapons and armor

[maiden lodge]

It's byronic, but not edgy.

[limber pivot]

you can argue all you want about the skill names and vfxs

[gaunt star]

It’s ok to be edgy

[exotic copper]

okay but the original comment if we go wayyyyyyyyyback

[cinder badger]

Like what qualifies for edginess

[exotic copper]

calf said he didn't want an edgy job

i said like drk

he said "well drk you can see past the edge"

[maiden lodge]

Like, i'll go so far as to say that Dark Knight is probably the anti-edgy class. Edgy classes don't have spell abilities literally tell you they love you.

[exotic copper]

No

You're wrong

[cinder badger]

Look guys Dark Knight is Batman

[limber pivot]

fuck off

i get where you are coming from

i've played the quest line

but it sounds stupid

[maiden lodge]

Then you know it's not that edgy, in actual practice.

[exotic copper]

It IS edgy

Because edgy is perception

[limber pivot]

but its not an anti-edgy class

[teal geyser]

I said I didn't like the idea of the kinda edge attributed to scythes

[exotic copper]

which is the same edge attribted to drk

[cinder badger]

My Red Mage is a void Slayer decked in Mhachi garb...

[gaunt star]

What’s wrong with “death edge” as a class though

[maiden lodge]

It's literally the only class where you get told someone LOVES you.

[exotic copper]

Not true

my axe tells me it loves me all the time

[teal geyser]

It's just really not my thing

[exotic copper]

its called "fellcleave"

[limber pivot]

i love it when i hit lvl 80 so i can summon fray so we can have gay sex and kiss 🤓

[teal geyser]

Hard to articulate

[maiden lodge]

I mean if that's what you're into

[exotic copper]

Also if summoning a shadow clone of yourself isn't edgy

you're just deluded

[cinder badger]

Nothing says edgy quite like miner

[limber pivot]

summoning a clone is just umm spiritual

[limber pivot]

DRK is actually very chill

and wholesome

[teal geyser]

Like this?

[maiden lodge]

It depends. Is that shadow clone a manifestation of your anger, self-loathing, or accursedness, or is it a manifestation of your self-love, your pride, and your actualized acceptance of yourself?

[limber pivot]

uh i guess so

[exotic copper]

either way its edgy

[limber pivot]

meant more like during combat

[exotic copper]

its a sonic oc

its bad fanon

[teal geyser]

Fucking in combat? Fuck me

[limber pivot]

ultimate mitigation

stops the enemies in their tracks

[exotic copper]

you ever tried to hit a man with no clothes on

[limber pivot]

its like MCH's flamethrower

if you move

it stops

[exotic copper]

If I can find a sonic OC that closely resembles your job description: you're edgy

[limber pivot]

why sonic oc

[exotic copper]

you know why

[limber pivot]

there is a sonic oc for everything

[gaunt star]

Is DRK coldsteel?

[limber pivot]

yess

[exotic copper]

https://tenor.com/view/barack-obama-why-shrug-gif-14239510

[limber pivot]

they cant add sex

too much hotbar bloat

[gaunt star]

Separate hotbar, like in mounts

[limber pivot]

oh well then lets gooooooooooooooo

[exotic copper]

hey this website fixes any drawing to have perfect lines

https://seoi.net/penint/

[teal geyser]

Swollen hotbars you say? Can't fit anymore?

[cinder badger]

@limber pivot ....lets....go?

[limber pivot]

my monitor is about to burst its reallly bad

[limber pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/doge-doge-coin-to-the-moon-crypto-cryptocurrency-gif-14563637

[gaunt star]

The gang goes to the moon

[craggy pawn]

Zenos is gonna piss on the moon

[exotic copper]

after i do

he gets sloppy 2nds

[deft burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/doge-doge-coin-to-the-moon-crypto-cryptocurrency-gif-14563637

[cinder badger]

Sloppeh?

[open verge]

I really want a new combat mechanic

Charges were the only new combat mechanic they added in shb but I wonder if there is anything like that in END

[teal geyser]

Action input timing

Please look forward to it

[kind lark]

New thing to add to the game, job creator

[teal geyser]

This feels like cross class system with a new name

[kind lark]

Well that but I mean litterally from scratch. You can make your job as op or as bad as you want

[distant sonnet]

Like people already do, with freestyle samurai.

Except mostly just making jobs as bad as they want.

[chrome cipher]

https://youtu.be/aTcI50qC4ag

Interesting theories in here, especially surrounding what Yoshi-P's shirts could mean.

The idea that the class actually isn't wielding an actual scythe, but a crescent-moon shaped glaive like some of the people of the moon did in FFIV

and the "no comment" shirt being to do with the humming bunny people of the moon in FFIV

The people who, for the most part, could not speak. Save for a select few.

[teal geyser]

Her happy face in front of the end of the world is...hmm

[chrome cipher]

XD Do you know how many people sit on lawn chairs waiting for the end of the world?

[teal geyser]

It'd be absurdly reaching compared to the simplicity of every other shirt he has ever done

[chrome cipher]

None of his other shirts have been simplistic though...?

[exotic copper]

we thought sam raimi was reaching

scarlet witch

was very simplistic

[teal geyser]

Dark Knight simple

[chrome cipher]

007 wasn't for Machinist

[teal geyser]

It was

[chrome cipher]

Not really

[teal geyser]

Literally "gun"

I forget what astro was if it even had one

[chrome cipher]

Obvious after the fact, but literally every guess before it was known was wrong

[teal geyser]

Uhhh

[chrome cipher]

Said by Yoshi himself

[teal geyser]

The logic behind the shirt was still simple

Which is the point

[chrome cipher]

My point still stands

[teal geyser]

Your point is stupid in this argument

[chrome cipher]

Stop

Just stop

You're becoming toxic

Without watching the video

[exotic copper]

Your point is counter to your own argument however.

no comment -> humming is like

way more complex

than gun is gun

people thought there was a deeper meaning to 007

and there wasn't

[teal geyser]

Cal: "shirts are always simple logic"
Verah: "but no one got 007 right"
It's not about being right or wrong, the shirt was literally teasing MCH through a gun. That's very simple logic

[chrome cipher]

Comment: a verbal or written remark.
Humming: a wordless tune..

... um...

[teal geyser]

Yeah but then the logic is also roping in Lunarians in another way

[exotic copper]

or it was just a joke about how he always feels like his shirt says so much

[teal geyser]

And then that makes it complicated

[twilit peak]

Do yall think 6.0 will bring male vera

[exotic copper]

no

[distant sonnet]

No Comment as a joke because he was literally about to announce the new job.

Quite clearly.

[teal geyser]

Just nammingway stuff would be the same level of logic has Sam Reimi but then you're adding other stuff on top and I just don't think he's going that deep

[exotic copper]

it wasn't about humming bunnies

[twilit peak]

Maybe the humming bunnies is gunna be male vera

[chrome cipher]

The entire trailer literally has ffiv hints though, so I mean... it could still

[exotic copper]

lmao

[teal geyser]

Heh

[distant sonnet]

People want bunny hummers

But it isn't happening

[teal geyser]

Thanks btw

[chrome cipher]

Rabbits have been affiliated with the moon in Asian culture, all I'm saying is I wouldn't be surprised

[distant sonnet]

And if it does happen they'll just be male au'ra without scales and with rabbit ears. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

[teal geyser]

au'ra

[exotic copper]

Viera will likely play a big role on the moon

i am willing to admit that

[teal geyser]

...why?

[exotic copper]

Because we haven't seen many viera at all on the source

[twilit peak]

Tsukuyomi

[chrome cipher]

It wouldn't surprise me if the "No Comment" had double meaning either

[teal geyser]

That's because they are in Othard and shit

[exotic copper]

and he's right, moon and rabbits are related in asian cultures

I'm not saying the viera live on the moon

[chrome cipher]

... she, actually. Or they. If you please.

[exotic copper]

don't get tilted by generic "he", it's below you

[teal geyser]

Mmmmmmm okay

[dim sigil]

Bummy

[twilit peak]

So that's where all the male vera went

[chrome cipher]

I didn't realize correcting my pronouns meant I was tilted...

[exotic copper]

The way you were doing it was passive aggressive.

[teal geyser]

I still see no reason why Viera should be connected to the moon because their lore doesn't support that at all. Feels like at this point might as well say Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te will play a big role or Xaela because Dusk Mother moon Goddess

[chrome cipher]

Or... you are reading a tone behind tone less text that is not there

[distant sonnet]

Namingway will almost certainly be on the moon. They hinted as much during the conference.

[teal geyser]

100%

[exotic copper]

Or... using elipses... and ending sentences. several times. is read. as being curt.

[distant sonnet]

As a lunar beast tribe.

[chrome cipher]

Or... silence between words

[exotic copper]

Which is also a sign of passive aggression

[chrome cipher]

As intended. To display how someone talks

[exotic copper]

Look if you said that to me in real life I'd think you were a dick.

[distant sonnet]

Elrek you're batting 1000 at rubbing people the right way, huh~

[digital radish]

You could just be respectful of others and quit telling then what to and not to be offended by.

[chrome cipher]

I'm sorry, where was this memo on what ... means in a sentence online?

[teal geyser]

Can he rub me the right way?

[chrome cipher]

Cuz all I know is what it means in basic written english

[exotic copper]

I am respectful of others, I did not continue calling them a he.

I'm offended that you're offended that they're offended that I offended them

So we're all even stevens.

[twilit peak]

What

[digital radish]

You made it a point to tell them not to get offended by it as if youre someone in such a position. Grow up ✌️

[teal geyser]

...Elrek plz

[chrome cipher]

then please stop telling me what my sentence means, based on some fucking dots

Ffs

[teal geyser]

What was that line?

[chrome cipher]

There are more important things to be mad about

[exotic copper]

For real.

[chrome cipher]

All I did was ask you to address me and she or they. Bottom line. Do not pass Go

[exotic copper]

And I said you should do it more politely. Do not pass go.

[chrome cipher]

Moving on like the fucking adults we are, or should be

I was polite

[teal geyser]

Someone has to pass go

[chrome cipher]

You were reading tone that wasn't there

[teal geyser]

This isn't how you play Monopoly

[digital radish]

Block and move on, there you >go 🥰

[exotic copper]

And you were reading a tone that wasn't there when I was using a generic grammatically correct "he"

[chrome cipher]

Doing

[brisk quail]

Just send everyone to jail

[exotic copper]

I am willing to change it

I'm happy to change it

[teal geyser]

Execute people when they can't pay

[chrome cipher]

Calfirma and Elrik are now blocked. Idk why people have to act like that

[brisk quail]

If you can't pay. Pull up your bootstraps and jump on the chopping block

[teal geyser]

Wait why am I blocked?

I said nothing

[exotic copper]

Because the world doesn't revolve around you

[digital radish]

They need attention i guess

Idk

[chrome cipher]

Me either.

But moving on

[teal geyser]

[exotic copper]

i love people like this

"i have never done wrong"

[chrome cipher]

Idk, the scythe-like Glaive I still think is a possibility since it has basis in ffiv and the new expansion is hinting a lot toward ffiv

[exotic copper]

"i have only ever done right"

[teal geyser]

I literally did not get involved in the he/she debacle

[twilit peak]

I'm sensing some negative energy here

[turbid aspen]

why cal tho

[chrome cipher]

He was being needlessly toxic earlier

[exotic copper]

Lmaooo

you called them stupid

so you got blocked

like i said

[chrome cipher]

Because he didn't like the video thumbnail

[teal geyser]

I said their shirt theory was super reaching and stupid

[exotic copper]

"i have never been wrong"

[distant sonnet]

Maybe. I can't think of a whole lot of glaive things though. If you're doing that, why not just a scythe?

[chrome cipher]

And then the theories in the video

[turbid aspen]

oh

[teal geyser]

I liked the thumbnail

[twilit peak]

negative energy

[chrome cipher]

Without watching it

[brisk quail]

[teal geyser]

I never said I hated the thumbnail

[exotic copper]

cant see your ats

you're blocked

[teal geyser]

I was making fun of it that is all

[brisk quail]

This is getting outta hand

[twilit peak]

Can we move back to bunnies

[chrome cipher]

So I blocked them

[exotic copper]

verah just came and got super tilted immediately

its hilarious

[digital radish]

Nah youre just a douchebag bro

[twilit peak]

BUNNIES

Plz

[teal geyser]

Am I?

[exotic copper]

Because I would like people to be polite?

[digital radish]

no not you Cal

[exotic copper]

He means me

[chrome cipher]

Where is @formal niche when you need a mod

[exotic copper]

I would love a mod.

I would LOVE. A mod.

[formal niche]

[digital radish]

100% Elrek saying stuff that has no business being said to begin with, when a simple "oh sorry" wouldve done everything and then some

[teal geyser]

Flie I have no idea

[exotic copper]

Scroll up.

[formal niche]

I just sat down for lunch, what's even happening

[exotic copper]

Tell me I'm wrong.

[formal niche]

[chrome cipher]

People being nasty

And disrespectful

Over differences of opinion and then some

[distant sonnet]

Yeah I dunno. Elrek being a dick and lots of butting heads. Not sure about Cali, they seemed pretty innocent. Heh

[chrome cipher]

@twilit peak So bunnies. On the moon. Viera.

[exotic copper]

I don't see how I'm a dick for wanting someone to be polite

[teal geyser]

Verah is blocking everyone because I said their theory was stupid and because Elrek thought that Verah as being passive aggressive when they corrected Elrek's use of pronoun

[digital radish]

you demand them be polite while being rude

thats the issue

[chrome cipher]

Cal was disrespectful too, @distant sonnet

[exotic copper]

I responded to rudeness with rudeness.

[chrome cipher]

Just a matter of scrolling up

[distant sonnet]

Ehh I dunno. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

[gaunt star]

I hope instead of hummingways we get Xenomorphs

[chrome cipher]

Not mine either, they're blocked

[unique verge]

I just scrolled through this. It was funny as shit.

[gaunt star]

We need to add more dangerous elements to the overworld

[exotic copper]

But yet you're still talking about me...

[brisk quail]

🎪 🐒

[kind lark]

There's a tribe of zenoses on the moon

[formal niche]

That all seems really stupid honestly Sorry, I'm on my phone so it's taking a bit to get through

[chrome cipher]

What would Xenomorphs entail?

[teal geyser]

[gaunt star]

They chase you around the map and one shot you

[exotic copper]

lmaooo

[chrome cipher]

Oof

[gaunt star]

Just like the eureka void dragons

[chrome cipher]

Double oof

[gaunt star]

Peak content design

[teal geyser]

Jesus Christ

[chrome cipher]

Yeah, I can see the appeal in that

[brisk quail]

EUREKA EXTREME

[teal geyser]

I lowkey love this idea Sally

Majima everywhere but it's Zenos

[craggy pawn]

Gettting chased by thicc zenoses

[chrome cipher]

Though I imagine there would be a lot of frightened screaming

[distant sonnet]

So.. Wow tried similar things. And eureka void dragons. And they were awful.

[brisk quail]

Zenos... is that you?

no I am... Zenosia

zenos' sister

[distant sonnet]

The idea of a dangerous environment is cool until you actually have to go do basic gameplay in it.

[chrome cipher]

Blizzard, from my understanding, has tried to recreate a lot of ffxiv success only to be met with failure

[digital radish]

Zenomorphs..

[teal geyser]

Is she also crazy?

[teal geyser]

NO

[distant sonnet]

Like I wanna go fishing and deal with murder.

[brisk quail]

*no comment

[teal geyser]

NO ZENOMORPHS I HATE THIS IMAGE

[digital radish]

[craggy pawn]

Animorphs but its zenos

[unique verge]

If i wasnt lazy as shit

I would make a zenos as a chest bursting Alien meme right now

[distant sonnet]

Nahh they did it way, way back. Burning Crusade was 2007 and they had Fel Reavers. Giant robots that slowly stomped around the first area of the expac, one shotting fools

[chrome cipher]

Oh right, I forgot about those

[craggy pawn]

I wouldnt be surprised if zenos wws born like that

[brisk quail]

oh what a cut- BY THE TWELVE

I WAS WAITING FOR YOU WOL. A LONG LONG TIME

Nope nope nope hopping on my mount and flying away

[unique verge]

tbh, neither would i

[chrome cipher]

My memory of the early days of WoW is hazy

its been a long time since I played, ngl

[distant sonnet]

And then they tried the savage, dangerous landscape thing in WoD. Gathering was cancer, getting anywhere to do anything sucked.

[teal geyser]

Old game is old, understandable

[exotic copper]

then it wasn't dangerous when flying got put back in lmao

cause people cried about the dangerous landscape

[teal geyser]

Oh lol that's actually funny

[exotic copper]

they took flying out in wod and had to reimplement it to silence the incessant wailing

[distant sonnet]

Flying helped but it only got reintroduced when everyone was done with the expac, so it was largely worthless.

[teal geyser]

Removing flying sounds pretty fucking weird of a choice

[chrome cipher]

Going through the history of early WoW makes me feel old

[exotic copper]

They essentially found that when flying existed people flew over content

like cataclysm

[chrome cipher]

I was legit like a Junior or Senior in HS when WoW released

[formal niche]

Flying in WoW is great

[distant sonnet]

Yeah. It was a terrible choice but they stuck with it, and tryhards thought it was a good idea.

[exotic copper]

so they just cut it