retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[teal geyser]

that's my point

cultural difference

the example I gave of that would be calamities

[balmy mesa]

not just in-universe, but the people writing the story

[teal geyser]

umbral calamities, periods of strife and stagnancy

Well

I suppose the Source bias would probably be that someone irl would take

but honestly for the sake of simplicity I'd rather not get writer bias involved

[balmy mesa]

yeah, good point - that's a rabbit hole that's difficult to dive into

[teal geyser]

Yeah

and you could just argue forever down that hole

The one thing you CAN say

is that they clearly didn't think of this before hand

[shut burrow]

It's so difficult for my small brain to comprehend

[balmy mesa]

and then it takes some Lunarians to pop out from the moon and then we literally end up going down some rabbit holes

[teal geyser]

and this was something they came up with later but ended up fitting scarily well

[teal geyser]

Can I just beat you over the head with my headcanon

I think I can get you to understand it

[shut burrow]

Umh

It's going to be hard

[teal geyser]

please?

[balmy mesa]

it seems like there was a lot of retconning and minor tweaks done up until ShB, but I think the canon will be consistent from here on in

[shut burrow]

If you want to go through that trouble

[teal geyser]

Until they fucked the E7 debuff names

[balmy mesa]

plus, if you consider Encyclopedia Eorzea, they wrote it "as if it was coming from a scholar in-universe"

[teal geyser]

Okay now that was just to cover their ass when they wanted to retcon something like Dalmasca

I know people like Dis love to come in and say they write wrong things on purpose in there

but that's ridiculous and overthinking it

[balmy mesa]

covering your ass is pretty much mandatory in professional life anyway 😂

[teal geyser]

So let's start with the causes of cultural bias, so the source has calamities and stuff yeah?

For the sake of simplicity I'm not going to go into all the examples that might contribute to this bias I'll just focus on calamities

when you have a calamity you have periods of stagnancy and strife

Wait hang on

I need to think about this

Yeah no this is fine

Right Venus?

[shut burrow]

Yeah

[teal geyser]

Now naturally you'd attribute that stagnancy and strife to generally "bad" and like one would irl they would probably attribute bad to "darkness"

and growth and happiness to "good" and light

[shut burrow]

Hm

[balmy mesa]

(Sorry to sidetrack, but was it ever explained that calamities caused stagnancy? or is this in the sense that the ambient aether was pushed too far into one element?)

[teal geyser]

and then eventually that would be umbral "dark" eras and astral "light" eras

And then the same logic would get applied to magic polarity

(I guess it doesn't matter which terms came first, the point is the bias would have been present anyway)

[shut burrow]

Dark = Umbra Light = Astral

[teal geyser]

In the sense that civilisation has grinded to a halt

it's stagnant

[gaunt star]

(It was implied that the ambient aether was pushed too far either way)

[balmy mesa]

like with Ga Bu, yeah?

[gaunt star]

Yeah

But globally

[teal geyser]

Hang on guys

hang on

Let me just uh

[balmy mesa]

sorry!

[teal geyser]

This explains why they are called what they are

and also lends to my headcanon

the naming of astral and umbral calamities is just about the status of civilisation

[balmy mesa]

literally like a golden age and dark age, respectively

[teal geyser]

It's true that aether gets fucky on the eve of calamities but that's not relevant to the naming

[teal geyser]

Yeah

[shut burrow]

Astral Era's are Era's of a ton of good stuff

[balmy mesa]

until someone fucks shit up

[teal geyser]

Fucking Ascians

[shut burrow]

Umbral Era's are the Era's where people gotta recover from the calamity

[gaunt star]

Makes me wonder if the 6.1 and following story will mark the start of an astral era

[teal geyser]

That'd be...interesting

[shut burrow]

Aren't we in an astral era?

[teal geyser]

Yeah

let's have another one though!

[gaunt star]

Continued prosperity

[teal geyser]

7th astral era only lasts one year

[shut burrow]

But we haven't had a calamity though?

[teal geyser]

Yeah why not

[shut burrow]

Omg noo

[teal geyser]

let's just do another one

[balmy mesa]

part of my headcanon (prior to when it was revealed why they were forcing rejoinings) was that Ascians were doing it because they were immortal and just craved some interesting times

[shut burrow]

Not another Dalamud situation

[kind lark]

Is there a neutral era? like the one we're in right now?

[teal geyser]

We are in Astral

[gaunt star]

~technically~ fandango is trying to cause an extinction level calamity

[balmy mesa]

if we hadn't been isekai'd (in shadowbringers), we would have had an eighth calamity

[kind lark]

Ah ok

[shut burrow]

Haha you thought I was neutral era? But it was I Astral era!

[kind lark]

Is that reference to something?

[gaunt star]

Jojo

[balmy mesa]

speaking of, I feel like there's going to be a lore reason for them getting rid of nocturnal sect from Astrologians

[kind lark]

What's a jojo?

[balmy mesa]

JJBA - Jojo's Bizarre Adventure

[gaunt star]

We destroy the moon

[shut burrow]

No more nocturnal sect = No more moon

[teal geyser]

Btw guys

[floral aurora]

I wonder will one of them die

[shut burrow]

Noooo

[kind lark]

Ohhh yeah, my mind completely forgot that cutscene

[teal geyser]

I like to imagine everyone watching this ceremony heard this and thought "What Crystal? Huh?"

[shut burrow]

Merlwyb is too much of an icon to die

[kind lark]

Here's a cool reference aireplane door and fruit plants

[balmy mesa]

Merlwyb literally got brought out from deep storage for this patch

[gaunt star]

More importantly who’re we going to plant as garlemalds new leader

[balmy mesa]

Gaius probably

[teal geyser]

The Garlean Senate should get restored to the place it once held

Put Gaius on or try him for war crimes

Definitely put Nerva on

[shut burrow]

Has flashbacks too the UK

Umh...

[balmy mesa]

Gaius was trying to do what was best for Garlemald I think, and then he realised he was doing it all wrong

and then we see Cid and Nero get married

[gaunt star]

Fucking eorzean nuremburg trials

[balmy mesa]

lul

[teal geyser]

That...doesn't excuse war crimes, the only thing that might is how much he's helped us against Garlemald

[balmy mesa]

yeah I suppose

[shut burrow]

You know, could've done something about his comrade's plan to pull down a whole entire satellite upon Eorzea but like he didn't

[teal geyser]

He did in the most bare minimum sense

so yeah he really didn't

[gaunt star]

Honestly Valens should be tried before Gaius

[balmy mesa]

ᵇᵘʳⁿ ᵗʰᵉ ᵇᵃᵈ

[teal geyser]

just wanted to say that before someone tries to bring it up

[teal geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

[distant sonnet]

Gaius is noooooot a good guy and basically justified war crimes as "because Im strong and you cant stop me."

[shut burrow]

Valens acts like a ||pedophile and not too mention the other things|| so we should burn him at the stake

[teal geyser]

Also "muh emperor can't do wrong"

[gaunt star]

Gaius has some glimmer of redemption and remorse where as valens is conducting human experiments and war crimes?

[balmy mesa]

the stakes are quite high

[teal geyser]

My comments remain unchanged

"Why not both?"

[random ravine]

the guy who commands the legion in Werlyt should be tried before both

[balmy mesa]

I dislike valens, but at the same time I'm curious to see what kind of comeuppance he's gonna get

[random ravine]

forget his name

[strange summit]

o boi, look at the time

It's fanart o'clock

[shut burrow]

Imagine if he gets kicked into the Diamond Weapon

[strange summit]

This is what I'm living for

[shut burrow]

That's cool fanart

[gaunt star]

We’ll probably find out the new melee name in the job files in 5.5

[teal geyser]

thigh gap

[strange summit]

I want to believe

You're a person of culture, Cal

[balmy mesa]

did the same happen for 4.5?

[distant sonnet]

And then what we get is...

[gaunt star]

Yeah

[balmy mesa]

I didn't really partake in dataminingbotany back then

[teal geyser]

Did it though? I don't recall gunbreaker or dancer being datamined in 4.5

[strange summit]

Crystal meth Lalafel ?

[teal geyser]

I know Hroth and Viera did

but

[gaunt star]

My memory may be acting up but it was either rdm/sam or GNB/dnc

[balmy mesa]

hroth got leaked via the French, lol

[distant sonnet]

Sam got mined for sure.

[kind lark]

Looks like a bat lalafell

[shut burrow]

I don't think GNB or DNC got leaked

[teal geyser]

to be fair SAM got shown as well so hey didn't even need the leak

[gaunt star]

I do know though people have found garlean aetherytes in the file

Blessed be to the botanists

[shut burrow]

GArlemald resotration

Restoration

Omg my keyboard do be acting up though

[balmy mesa]

I love how everyone was like "fuck you, we're databotanists now" when they asked people to not datamine

[teal geyser]

F for the old datamining channel

[distant sonnet]

Yeeeeah.

[shut burrow]

Databotanists

[balmy mesa]

I mean, I understand why they asked everyone not to do it

[teal geyser]

The worst thing about datamining channel being removed is the april fools Beastmaster video can't be found

God that caused such a shitstorm

[balmy mesa]

but a lot of people will always be curious

[strange summit]

I saw the Exorcist-guy fanart on the subreddit and I have to admit I'm on that train

[distant sonnet]

Oh man that video was gold

[strange summit]

The Necromancer boss even says she's corrupted

And Yoshida said it's too evil to imagine a Necro WoL

[shut burrow]

What was the lore behind her

[strange summit]

So yeah, exorcist

[shut burrow]

Excorcist sounds so col

[distant sonnet]

Shes Lenna from ff5. But says shes corrupted. Thats about it.

[shut burrow]

Oh I see

[strange summit]

And we can imagine a corrupted exorcists use dead people instead of sending them

[distant sonnet]

And even then the Lenna thing is probably mostly just harmless reference.

[shut burrow]

harmless

[gaunt star]

I’m behind the idea of a scythe job that wears maiming gear

[autumn heron]

Scythe is still to obvious

Imo

[gloomy shale]

maybe it's a pick axe

[strange summit]

If Yoshi-p is an edgelord, and he is, it will be a scythe

[distant sonnet]

See.. I'd have agreed except for the one you can kinda see in the trailer.

And scythes have been weapons in past ffs

[autumn heron]

I dont think it'll be a scythe job mainly cause we already have a job with an edgelord aesthetic

[gaunt star]

Two actually

[distant sonnet]

Yeah but we don't have a dps job with an edgelord aesthetic.

[strange summit]

But Zenos as a beastmaster is possible too, he'll propably control the various beats of the apocalypse

[distant sonnet]

Right now you need to tank on the edge

[strange summit]

With an axe and a hammer kek

[gaunt star]

Are you guys forgetting how edgy BLM is?

[final isle]

I think the "one handed" scythe style similar to Ranjit and Sice(FF Type 0) kinda makes sense for a "cool" melee DPS they could add that'd be really unique, although Judge or something similar would be fine too

[distant sonnet]

BLM isn't really.. Edgy

[gloomy shale]

I want to dps and heal on the edge

[autumn heron]

BLMs wear gothic lolita

[gaunt star]

With a spell literally named despair

[distant sonnet]

Its just goth chick

[autumn heron]

Thats not edgy

[shut burrow]

Scythes doesn't have to always equal edgelord

[strange summit]

I also want this if it's not a scythe

[autumn heron]

Judge

[autumn heron]

JUDGE

JUDGE

[strange summit]

Combine them and...

BOOM

[cinder badger]

Templar

[autumn heron]

Templar is just dps PLD

[distant sonnet]

Ahh yes. Swallows. =p

[cinder badger]

@autumn heron but Templar is nothing like Paladin

[distant sonnet]

Serge intensifies.

[balmy mesa]

in FFXIV it could have a big overlap with PLD though

[cinder badger]

Even historically Templars in Paladin's aren't exactly the same no matter how hard you really want it to be so

[balmy mesa]

though I think they'll legitimately surprise us like with Sage

[shut burrow]

Templars are so different 😭

[distant sonnet]

Well. Ff14 paladins aren't holy knights. So that helps

[balmy mesa]

paladins are not holy knights

they never were

paladins were of the court

[distant sonnet]

Sure if you want to go all historical, but also technically paladins probably weren't a real thing

[balmy mesa]

they were

[cinder badger]

Paladin's we're literally just knights. Knights that swore an oath to a liege

They are full of chivalry

[balmy mesa]

but, the modern idea of a "paladin" came from D&D

[cinder badger]

Templars are religious zealots who serve the church

[distant sonnet]

The Paladins as in the 12 knights of Charlemagne's court are basically just the french version of Arthur and his round table.

[cinder badger]

Or if you play Assassin's Creed Templars are assholes

[balmy mesa]

all about order

vs free will

[cinder badger]

King Alfred re-founded the Templar order to defy the Isu

[balmy mesa]

no idea if we'll get an assasshole's creed though

[balmy mesa]

spoilers, much?

[distant sonnet]

I'm sure Assassin's Creed: Templar is only a matter of time.

[balmy mesa]

kind of happened with ACIV

[cinder badger]

@distant sonnet hey we already had an Assassin's Creed where an Assassin turned on the Brotherhood and became a Templar

[balmy mesa]

but considering that there's 21 titles in the series now...

who the fuck knows

[distant sonnet]

See Im thinking a much cooler one where you play an assassin infiltrating the templar order

But nevertheless

[autumn heron]

How'd this suddenly get to a talk about Ass Creed

[balmy mesa]

templars

[distant sonnet]

I was talking about Paladin as seen in D&D and previous FF games.. And 14 paladins aren't that. They're closer to the historical fiction of sworn knights to the throne. Of ul'dah specifically. Templars could be closer to the other version

[cinder badger]

Go run the praetorium and listen to Gaius' monologue in the final battle

[distant sonnet]

Lots of Ivalice smitey animations

[cinder badger]

Tell me that doesn't sound like shit a Templar from Assassin's Creed would say

[balmy mesa]

the magic part of the current PLD rotation begs to differ

[cinder badger]

Like if it wasn't Final Fantasy Gaius could be a grand Magister of the Templar order and the Ascians are just Isu

[autumn heron]

Its true PLDs burst is based around Holy Spirit amd Confeteor

All white magic

[balmy mesa]

it's the fucking washington monument

lol

well, the confiteor obelisk

[cinder badger]

@autumn heron yes but Templars in previous Final Fantasy games didn't use holy Magic

They were spell blades that channeled all sorts of status inflicting Magics on their weapons similar to a rune fencer

[gaunt star]

The only job I want to see in game eventually is juggler

[balmy mesa]

would make sense if they were a tank. that way if they gained enmity, the monster would go right for the... juggler

[autumn heron]

cough

[cinder badger]

@balmy mesa sounds like an ICP job

@autumn heron your point?

They still did not use the same kind of magic that Paladin's do

Templars even employed zombification magics

[balmy mesa]

reverse red mage

[cinder badger]

Sounds totally Paladin like

[balmy mesa]

but depending on what weapons templars used (it has to be unique, remember)

[cinder badger]

The way I see it they have three options

they can make it ivalician, garlean or Thavnairian themed

[gaunt star]

Rune Knight but with a scythe

[balmy mesa]

Thavnairian-themed is most likely
dervishes, anyone?

[shut burrow]

Excorcist

[cinder badger]

And it would be quite likely the job would be unlocked in Ul'dah

[shut burrow]

Samurai is unlocked in Ul'Dah

And Red Mage

[cinder badger]

You got to think about the reason why somebody representing that job would be in the city that they're in

[balmy mesa]

Ul'dah is the closest city

Sage is probably in Limsa because they got a boat from Sharlayan

[cinder badger]

Likewise dancer was in limsa because that was the first stop on their tour

[kind lark]

GNB Girdania and DNC in Limsa

[balmy mesa]

Gridania made sense for Radovan and co, since they were coming across from Gyr Abania

[cinder badger]

And I guess Red Mage was Ul'dah because black magic stuff was there Maybe

I actually forget why he was there in the first place

[gaunt star]

Wasnt he just traveling like the sam mentor

[cinder badger]

Also if you had noticed most of the jobs we have in this game have tied into the lore somehow since the beginning....

[balmy mesa]

red mage was from the conflict between mhach and amdapor

[gaunt star]

Ya ya

[cinder badger]

We knew Thavnair was famous for its dancers in Alchemist so dancer as a job was an eventuality

Gunbreaker, though different from what we expected was also an eventuality because gunblades existed

[gaunt star]

They’re also tied to Dalmasca

[cinder badger]

What is

[shut burrow]

Dancers?

[gaunt star]

The gunblades

Historically speaking garlemald adapted them from dalmasca iirc

[balmy mesa]

okay, so X'rhun Tia was in Ul'dah because he was chasing someone

[cinder badger]

Dalmasca didn't even exist in Final Fantasy 14 lore until revealed in stormblood.

We just knew that the design for Garlemald was inspired heavily by Ivalice not that it actually existed in this world

[gaunt star]

That doesn’t discredit their history in the world of 14

[balmy mesa]

I mean, now that we know that they pretty much absorbed the 12 team into 14... it was inevitable

[teal geyser]

Actually not true

It's mentioned in ARR

and also in the lorebook that came out in HW

[shut burrow]

Wait really?

[teal geyser]

Yeah

[shut burrow]

That's so cool

[teal geyser]

remember the feast questline

[cinder badger]

Are you fucking kidding me

[shut burrow]

No ❤️

[teal geyser]

and there was that dude who couldn't sleep

and he was in a really bad way

he mentions Dalmasca in ARR

[balmy mesa]

yeah, the FF12 lore people were involved in ARR

[teal geyser]

it's a single passing mention

but still there

what did change with Dalmasca in SB was where it was

[cinder badger]

And then people wonder why others try to draw connections between other Final Fantasy games and this one

[teal geyser]

because in the HW lorebook it was said to be in Ilsabard and the last province to fall there to the empire

but in SB that got retconned to Othard

[balmy mesa]

14 is a themepark MMO

[cinder badger]

So maybe the first really is Final Fantasy ones world

[balmy mesa]

no

[teal geyser]

and the Dalmasca's previous history and location got replaced with some obviously made up country called "Nhalmasque" or whatever

[balmy mesa]

the first shard was heavily drawing from 1.0 in terms of how Crystarium is

[cinder badger]

Mount Gulg indeed I'm done with this shit time to play some blue mage

[balmy mesa]

that very first cutscene

[teal geyser]

oh my god

no

not this "First is FF1 world" shit again

[balmy mesa]

1.0 as in XIV 1.0, just to clarify

[cinder badger]

@teal geyser hey if ivalice can be Canon to Final Fantasy XIV then anything's possible

[teal geyser]

FFXII and Tactics and stuff is not canon to FFXIV though

[gaunt star]

But 14 ivalice is not 12 ivalice

[balmy mesa]

they're drawing on what was done for tactics and xii

[shut burrow]

Ivalice is a whole world in 12

[balmy mesa]

but it's unique to 14

[gaunt star]

Such as 14’s Anima probably won’t be Seymour’s mom

[shut burrow]

You can't drag a whole world into an already it's existing world

[cinder badger]

That's what they want you to think then they'll turn around and be like oops we tricked you because screw the rules

[teal geyser]

and also the name of a continent for some reason (God that world is dumb)

[cinder badger]

Like to be honest Final Fantasy XIV is just sounding like somebody's Final Fantasy fanfic

[balmy mesa]

it's probably gonna be tataru's mum, or something

[shut burrow]

Hello I come from the world Ivalice and from the continent of Ivalice

[cinder badger]

We have a little bit of everything from every other Final Fantasy game converging on to this one world

[teal geyser]

No really there are several big plot changes and whatnot

[gaunt star]

I was thinking Zenos’

[cinder badger]

We have the Crystal Tower from Final Fantasy 3 we have magitek specifically from Final Fantasy 6

We've got the races from Final Fantasy XI

[gaunt star]

It’s almost like how every ff is self-referential to the series, who would’ve thought

[balmy mesa]

can I just enjoy the meme for a moment tho

[cinder badger]

And now races from Final Fantasy 10 and 12

[teal geyser]

to be fair magitek might as well be an "everything" thing

[gaunt star]

It is an everything thing

[teal geyser]

Hey if we wanna go there all the other races minus Au Ra are basically FFXI

[cinder badger]

@teal geyser there has been no other Final Fantasy game that has the magitek armor from Final Fantasy 6 and not even the magitek from Final Fantasy 15 bears that resemblance

[gaunt star]

That’s because they’re references

[balmy mesa]

and since they're giving ffx some love with anima...

[teal geyser]

Uh that's not true

[balmy mesa]

those two syllables come to mind

[cinder badger]

@gaunt star everything on there is one big reference but it's also Cannon

[teal geyser]

I'd argue it doesn't have to be called magitek to be magitek

[cinder badger]

Hence why I said it looks like one giant fanfic

[teal geyser]

and that stuff like...the magitek thing from BSF that is literally ripped out of Type-0 and the Type-0 Militas tech counts as "magitek"

[gaunt star]

If everything is canon wtf is my giant water globe so I can play Blitzball

[balmy mesa]

I mean, some of the job quests have FFXI renditions of characters

[teal geyser]

I haven't done all the FFXI jobs so I can't speak for it really

[kind lark]

6.0

[teal geyser]

I can't think of an example either

[gaunt star]

I hope

[balmy mesa]

the races

[cinder badger]

It would be more of a reference if it looks like the magitek armor from six but it was called something else or it looks like something else but called magitek. There's a difference between referencing something and blatantly ripping it off from another game

[shut burrow]

Lies

[teal geyser]

you said job quests

[shut burrow]

I meannn

[autumn heron]

Shatotto in the BLM quests is explicitly not Shantotto

[gaunt star]

^

[autumn heron]

Her name is literally just a reference

[shut burrow]

It's not ripping off if it's from the same Company

[teal geyser]

Honestly, might as well be close enough to just being the same fucking thing

[balmy mesa]

sorry, let me rephrase - some of the job quests have characters that would literally not look out of place in FFXI

[teal geyser]

They went pretty hard into it

[teal geyser]

ah

[balmy mesa]

there's a fuckload of XI references in XIV, and that really should not be surprising

[cinder badger]

Hydaelyn/Zodiark have similarities with other Final Fantasy games

[shut burrow]

Doma takes it's name from a castle in another FF game, but that castle is more medieval then Asian chinese japanese

[autumn heron]

XIV in general is just FF greatest hits

[shut burrow]

Doma's name is a reference It's not ripping it off

[autumn heron]

The whole game is references

[balmy mesa]

it's a theme park MMO

[cinder badger]

Such as Altanna/Promathi from XI or Cosmos/Chaos from Dissidia

[teal geyser]

shame no one poisoned the watering hole

[cinder badger]

But they can do it without literally calling them the same exact thing

[shut burrow]

MT gulg is a mountain but you see hehehehe, It's a floating mountain

Boom

Mind blown

[balmy mesa]

the theme is also a remix of the original Mt Gulg

[cinder badger]

Do you get what I'm saying yet. You can make something that's a reference to another thing but call it something completely different that makes it a reference. Or an inspiration even

[teal geyser]

Reminder that the entire FFXIV plot is just a rip-off of that one bomberman game Yoshi P worked on before

[balmy mesa]

anyway I'm happy they're keeping things fresh

[cinder badger]

But I still want to know

In Dragon Quest 10

[balmy mesa]

fresh, like the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air

[distant sonnet]

Or how theres a cliff in Kholusia overlooking Eulmore and its 100% this shot if you turn your camera right.

[cinder badger]

Is your player character held to the same standard as the warrior of light on 14

[distant sonnet]

Everything is a FF reference. Almost nothing is one to one exactly the same.

[gaunt star]

Waiting for that world of final fantasy reference

[autumn heron]

Hell ShBs is just a large part of FF3s plot in a nutshell

[balmy mesa]

man I just realised, what happens when Amano dies?

[distant sonnet]

Sad, sad day.

[cinder badger]

So far nobody's been able to answer me on this

[balmy mesa]

then we're not gonna get any more decent FF logos

[shut burrow]

He can't die he'll just keep cloning himself

That's what I'm planning for myself

[distant sonnet]

Someone else will have to take up the mantle and draw the same face 50000 times.

[shut burrow]

😊

[teal geyser]

Probably, DQ is built off of you're the hero who saves the world trope too

[balmy mesa]

just a reminder, it's FFX's 20th anniversary this year

[teal geyser]

also btw fuck me DQ10 trailers are absurd

[balmy mesa]

and fuck I feel old now.

[cinder badger]

@teal geyser Okay so let's talk about a defense somebody made about why the Rogue class wasn't called The Thief class because this is what bugs me.

The claim is Yoshida didn't want to associate the term Thief with a hero like the warrior of light

[distant sonnet]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/vSkXRfZ9mjNQY/giphy.gif

[teal geyser]

That sounds sketchy

[cinder badger]

Dragon Quest 10 which was also developed by Yoshida had a thief class

[teal geyser]

Honestly

[balmy mesa]

it should have gone ROG -> THF, not ROG -> NIN

[teal geyser]

no

no no no

nin is too iconic

[cinder badger]

I don't care about Thief being a job or not

[balmy mesa]

NIN could have been a class of its own

[teal geyser]

But I think they simply knew what they wanted rogue to be and it simply didn't involve stealing that much so it felt weird to call them thief

[distant sonnet]

Thief would have just been ninja with less unique animations.

[cinder badger]

What bug me is that this claim of morality that Thief was bad in name so therefore it didn't deserve even the class title

Despite Thief being used in Final Fantasy games since Final Fantasy 1

[balmy mesa]

"stab, fancier stab, fanciest stab"

[shut burrow]

Does it really matter

😭

[cinder badger]

@shut burrow it matters because I want to know the true reason why Rogue wasn't called Thief

[shut burrow]

Becuase Yoshida said no

[teal geyser]

necromancer inc

btw

[teal geyser]

Honestly I blame the lore they wanted

[cinder badger]

@shut burrow but what was his reasoning because it clearly wasn't moral if you could play a Thief on Dragon Quest 10

[distant sonnet]

Rogue sounds cooler and necromancer is confirm'nt.

[teal geyser]

you can argue that the name would define the lore but ehhh idk

[balmy mesa]

would it be NEC, or would it be NCR?

[teal geyser]

Rogue sounds cooler
also true

don't @ me

[balmy mesa]

the biggest problem I have with Rogue is that people fucking misspell it

[kindred rampart]

Thief has a history of effecting RNG too
Can't let that happen

[cinder badger]

Yeah people keep spelling it like the color

[shut burrow]

I love my class Roge

[balmy mesa]

"how do you get rouge"
well, you buy the makeup

[distant sonnet]

The Rouge Rogue!

[balmy mesa]

tbh

Rogue -> Red Mage?

[cinder badger]

Isn't that a sonic character

[kindred rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/b3tch-rogue-gif-8496307

[balmy mesa]

then they can enjoy their vermillion

[kindred rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/rouge-the-bat-sonic-hedgehog-gif-11128537

[cinder badger]

Yes because that's what we need a bat with cleavage

[teal geyser]

I always have to double check myself

[cinder badger]

Holy boobies

[balmy mesa]

wtf sonic

[teal geyser]

Fuck yeah we do

[distant sonnet]

Ohhh Sanic the Horgehag.

[cinder badger]

7.0 bat race confirmed

[shut burrow]

Looks

I mean there was a bat like race in Ivalice

[distant sonnet]

Ehhh. That was more wyvern lady

[cinder badger]

Also I currently hate genshin impact more than ever

[balmy mesa]

I suspect they wanna keep the bat stuff down on the down-low

[cinder badger]

Because now people are drawing art comparing Final Fantasy XIV twins with the twins on genshin impact

How dare they ruin Alisaie like that

[kind lark]

What's a genshin impact?

[cinder badger]

@kind lark it is 1000 horrible things

[shut burrow]

I-

[kindred rampart]

I saw that

[shut burrow]

Me with a Genshin Impact pfp

[kind lark]

Oh shoul've told me earlier

Is this genshin impact thing cool with the kids?

[shut burrow]

Yes very cool

And also very quirk

y

[balmy mesa]

it's not a bad rpg... though I've been told "you shouldn't play it because chinese spyware"... lol

[cinder badger]

Don't do it it's a trap

Gacha impact will suck out your soul

[shut burrow]

It's a gacha game

[kind lark]

Oh quirk like that one show? I think it begins with j

[shut burrow]

Jvictorius

[kind lark]

https://preview.redd.it/h4idzsx2lk061.jpg?auto=webp&s=f43aa8cf006cd88a008cc5fae778307af77e1d3e

[shut burrow]

Bee

[glossy vale]

Second-to-last Sting

[cinder badger]

See it's funny because she said Moon

Which is where we are going

[shut burrow]

Bang zoom! Straight to the moon!

[cinder badger]

So she is sending alphinaud to the place that we are supposed to be going so maybe that's how we get to the moon

We make her mad and then she sends us all to the Moon

Bang Zoom

[balmy mesa]

nah I still think Estinien will jump us to the moon

[kind lark]

I am bee now

[balmy mesa]

best meme

[kind lark]

I heard jojo references are cool

[cinder badger]

Somebody just said JoJo reference

[shut burrow]

That's more like a FFXIV reference

[cinder badger]

But see it's Zeno's joining the warrior of light and estinien to beat up the garlean empire... so it makes it funny

[viscid monolith]

It is funny just how down bad the Garleans have it right now

[cinder badger]

And it's all downhill from here

Stupid Garleans and their lack of magic haha pathetic

Have to use machines to do everything

Imagine going through life without being able to use Aether

[balmy mesa]

there's probably a lore reason for it

[cinder badger]

It's because they suck :D

[teal geyser]

Except the rare ones that don't

they are cool

[cinder badger]

Can they use Magic

[gaunt star]

It’s because Emet designed them to have no magic as a fail safe, that’s my guess

[teal geyser]

It's noted that on rare occasions Garleans can be born with magic ability

[cinder badger]

@teal geyser they should be more like zenos that guy is my best friend

And he's also my enemy

[balmy mesa]

I'm sure there's something to do with their forehead thumbtack that prevents them from doing magic

[teal geyser]

ehh

idk

[viscid monolith]

Some Garleans can use magic but only the most rudimentary and they have to train really hard

[teal geyser]

Gougans also seemed pretty shit at things?

[cinder badger]

Apparently that thing in their forehead is supposed to be a third eye

[teal geyser]

It is

helps with spatial awareness

and apparently it's like chitin

[balmy mesa]

they were only capable of doing things by clockwork

[viscid monolith]

Gougans could still use magic iirc but very little

[teal geyser]

so...like Garleans

[cinder badger]

So we have spiritual awareness but can't even use aether like the month can?

[heady shadow]

clockwork

OH

[viscid monolith]

Slightly more than Garleans

[teal geyser]

w-what?

[teal geyser]

I really don't remember that being said though

[viscid monolith]

It was kinda vague

[teal geyser]

mmm

I can believe that though Lance

Matsuno sucks

[cinder badger]

Why can't a garlean unlock their 14th chakra

[balmy mesa]

better than cockwork tho

[teal geyser]

I'd get cockwork from Clockwork

[balmy mesa]

time's a-ticking

[teal geyser]

also his name being "Clockwerk" is dumb

[cinder badger]

Actually if a garlean has spiritual awareness and a third eye why can they not be Templars

[balmy mesa]

Clocktwerk would be a better name

[teal geyser]

YES

[teal geyser]

idk why we are going into spiritual awareness

[heady shadow]

ahem sorry i couldnt resist

but something about a eagle turning into a machine worked out with this convo

[balmy mesa]

I'm also curious: what happens if you poke a garlean's third eye?

[spice vessel]

their third eye is keratinous

[cinder badger]

Oh I messed read your comment what the fuck does spatial awareness mean

[teal geyser]

Koji said it's like Chitin so it'd feel hard and probably wouldn't hurt?

[balmy mesa]

oh, so it's a forehead pimple

[spice vessel]

more like a fingernail

[teal geyser]

Spatial awareness, as in, it helps you see your environment and shit

space awareness

[soft gyro]

spatial awereness allows you to not look dumb

[cinder badger]

But didn't cid say something about the third eye being special or something and picking up on who you really were

[gaunt star]

They can’t stub their toe, the true power

[teal geyser]

I hate you brought this up

I'm just going to say "Cid is a cock"

and move on

because clearly he's wrong

[cinder badger]

Literally the pureblood garlean is wrong about his own biology

[balmy mesa]

he's Nero's tho

[teal geyser]

Well, when it comes to the echo that's fair

[balmy mesa]

which happens

[gaunt star]

Then how could elidibus sneak past everyone as Zenos? Checkmate garlenerds.

[teal geyser]

Cid never even said "yeah totally my eye that helped me see into my own past when you echo visioned"

He just said "probably that right? ayyy"

[balmy mesa]

like that's how they got into power cos their nail clitoris was more open than others, probably?

[teal geyser]

....

cease and desist

[gaunt star]

Stop

[cinder badger]

@teal geyser to be honest I think that moment makes more sense if your legacy

Cid is the first one among the other characters to actually remember who you are

[teal geyser]

as a non-legacy player that shit is just super metaphorical but the issue is it's portrayed that way really poorly

[cinder badger]

He knew long before everybody else

[teal geyser]

Also btw Yayo

[balmy mesa]

is there any way that a non-legacy player can get this understanding, or is it limited to them?

[teal geyser]

That moment as legacy doesn't even have the google handing over

[teal geyser]

What understanding?

[cinder badger]

Raubahn was even pissed about him not saying anything sooner

[balmy mesa]

cid's echo into the past

[teal geyser]

mmm

wouldn't call it an echo into the past

because it was more just inner....self remembrance

[cinder badger]

Wait what about Legacy in Google

[teal geyser]

fuck I said google

I mean goggle

[balmy mesa]

and was there anything brought up about nael?

[teal geyser]

as legacy yeah.....

[cinder badger]

Just how long have I worn these damn goggles

[teal geyser]

https://youtu.be/Jgxm5BUcITo?t=109

[cinder badger]

So maybe in a future expansion we will do time travel

And when we do time travel we will go back to that moment in time and give Cid his goggles

[teal geyser]

no

it's a metaphorical scene

don't fucking muddy it

[balmy mesa]

so basically beyond these cutscenes for legacy players (and bahamut, later) there's no mention of what triggered the fall of dalamud?

[cinder badger]

@teal geyser but that's how he physically got his goggles didn't have them before

[teal geyser]

that's lighting a house on fire that just got extinguished Yayo

[cinder badger]

He was goggleless

[balmy mesa]

auto subtitles for Louisoix: "Lewis Wah"

[cinder badger]

Then our glowing selves showed up and gave him a pair

[gaunt star]

What’s a Cid with out his goggles

[balmy mesa]

hot

but he's also hot as current ARR form

[teal geyser]

uh

Yayo

I think you're misunderstanding that entire scene

[gaunt star]

Still can’t believe Cid is only 35 or around that

[cinder badger]

@gaunt star Cid without hid goggles is Marquis

[gaunt star]

You’re right

[teal geyser]

like

you're right that day was the day he first wore those goggles

[balmy mesa]

in terms of timespan, a year sounds about right for a beard

[kind lark]

So Cid is superman and Marquis is Clarke Kent?

[teal geyser]

but the handing him it in the flashback was merely us giving him his identity back by metaphorically giving him his goggles back on the day he became the CId we know and love

[cinder badger]

But he literally asks us if that light he saw that day was us

[heady shadow]

i always thought it was a reference to 1.0

*1.x

[teal geyser]

the Cid scene?

[balmy mesa]

jeez, the subtitles

[heady shadow]

ye

i should prob rewatch though

[gaunt star]

Hi, Dylan

[cinder badger]

And then immediately after suspecting that the illuminated figure that gave him the goggles was us he started talking about his third eye

[heady shadow]

would have been when the 1.x wol was going to confront Sephiroth- I mean Nael

[viscid monolith]

What

[cinder badger]

@heady shadow Nael was a woman

[teal geyser]

Yeah to come up with some reasoning as to how he "saw" us echo vision into his memories which again, Cid is a dick this is never brought up again, dude is a cock and I won't hear this "eye is special shit" until the eye gets more lore

[heady shadow]

your point/

?

[cinder badger]

@heady shadow so is sephiroth a woman

[teal geyser]

Pretty sure it's when he flees Ilsabard to come to Eorzea, he's got his friends and everything on board

[heady shadow]

so............ nael has to be a man to be a sephiroth reference?

or sephiroth has to be female to be a reference for nael?

[teal geyser]

oh also before that scene it literally shows a map of Cid moving to Eorzea

[heady shadow]

that sounds very bullshit lmao

[teal geyser]

I like female Sephiroth

[heady shadow]

people really dont know how references work

[teal geyser]

Tell me about it

had to explain how Ascians using scion of light names was a reference earlier today

[cinder badger]

You mean like how magitek armor on 14 is exactly like magitek armor from 6

[gaunt star]

Is this a JoJo reference

[kind lark]

Jojo?

[cinder badger]

Look this is how 6.0 is going to work out

[heady shadow]

honestly

[kind lark]

Have you watched this jojo thing?

[heady shadow]

if sephiroth was a woman...

then would make the obsession with cloud more explainable

mwhahahahjahahah

[cinder badger]

@heady shadow if sephiroth was a woman Cloud would have mixed feelings about him killing Areith

[gaunt star]

Yes

[heady shadow]

but yeah im not diving into this

[kind lark]

Is it good?

[heady shadow]

because the Yandere would be too strong

[gaunt star]

I personally think so

[cinder badger]

Can't wait for a remake part 2

[kind lark]

Cooll, I heard it's based on a book

[teal geyser]

he could just be gay ya know

[gaunt star]

Of the same name, yeah

[kind lark]

Except for part 8, part 8 is good tho

[gaunt star]

Yeah

[cinder badger]

If sephiroth was worthy as a villain why didn't Omega choose him over kefka

[teal geyser]

too powerful

The entire community would die

[cinder badger]

Are you kidding me kefka has more power in his pinky

Kefka successfully destroy his world

[kind lark]

Have you read or anime only?

[cinder badger]

Sephiroth got beat by a blond

[teal geyser]

...

The entire community would die

this is the power of fanbase fangirling death

not the power of strength

[cinder badger]

They must really like them Mama's Boys

[heady shadow]

despite popular idea, kefka is probably more iconic

[cinder badger]

@heady shadow the only villain to ever successfully destroy his world

Them defeating him afterwards is irrelevant he succeeded in his goal

He brought the world to ruin and crushed hope. There were people literally worshipping kefka at the bottom of his Tower

[heady shadow]

im sure he just wanted to gte rid of magic

since that was the end result of him dying

[cinder badger]

He wanted to create a monument to nothing this so basically

He wanted everybody to die and he wanted to Die too

[teal geyser]

No

That's just wrong

[cinder badger]

Sound familiar?

[teal geyser]

Sephiroth doesn't deserve to be so iconic but he really is

[gaunt star]

A mix of both

[balmy mesa]

I want this to be a thing.

[teal geyser]

Aerith lives DLC

[balmy mesa]

aka, FF7R

[heady shadow]

then why isnt he in ffxiv yet

waiot

he'll be in P8

[cinder badger]

@heady shadow even if they bring him on eventually kefka beat him to it

[heady shadow]

before you say it its the 24 man that in ffxiv original not the 8 man

[kind lark]

Nice, I've read all of up to the latest chapter of Jojolion. I'm immune to spoilers

[heady shadow]

well kefka was out before sephiroth so

[cinder badger]

Kefka made soldiers empty the sand out of his boots while still in the desert

[heady shadow]

though by this ligoc, Emperor should have been in omega too

[gaunt star]

Nice

[cinder badger]

@heady shadow but the emperor turned into a puppy minion

Because in the original games sprite instead of seeing an old man with long hair and a mustache everybody saw a Dogman

Like everybody thought the emperor on Final Fantasy 6 was a dog

So basically everybody was taking orders from a talking dog

@heady shadow now I realize you might be talking about Final Fantasy 2 emperor

[heady shadow]

better then narnia when they took orders from a Chimpanzee

[cinder badger]

But why would we care about him we have the Wild Rose

[heady shadow]

yes

[balmy mesa]

so instead of "Dancing Mad", it was "Barking Mad"?

[heady shadow]

we have WoL armor

[cinder badger]

We're still using that password even to this day

[heady shadow]

but we have his ||trial now||

[cinder badger]

Hey hey hey hey hey hey hey

Do you go wherever the Wild Rose blooms

[balmy mesa]

no, but I amble amongst the Black Roses

[heady shadow]

uness youd rather have to fight Firion.

[cinder badger]

Oh that's not even go there he would kick all our asses

That dude can literally do everything

We could also fight BUTZ

[teal geyser]

So can we

:3

[cinder badger]

Yeah but if we fight him he's just going to level up his resilience

And his max HP

Every time we hit him

[heady shadow]

WoL protects against our lb3s so

would be norma

[cinder badger]

What we need is a lb4

No wait

lb5

[gaunt star]

I’ll call elidibus for that

[teal geyser]

Honestly could imagine them making an LB4

[gaunt star]

Release eli from timeout SE we need his LB5

[unique verge]

jfc

[heady shadow]

freaked me out when i noticed elidibus breaking his limits even fther

[unique verge]

the saucey noodle endwalkers trailer meme edition

[heady shadow]

but still having enough power

[unique verge]

holy shit

[heady shadow]

yikes

[unique verge]

im dying

[cinder badger]

Monk LB5 Would be suplexing the enemy through the moon

[unique verge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Cxpr5XIuY

[gaunt star]

Every LB5 has an unskippable cutscene

[teal geyser]

We just pull a Cell https://youtu.be/lOCLmT3xnWI

[heady shadow]

still though

lb5 is reckless

dumb kid

[gaunt star]

Ngl id do it too

[cinder badger]

@unique verge I downvoted just for that part in the end

[unique verge]

As i'd expect from a lalafell playing heretic

lol

[cinder badger]

@unique verge remember the guy in charge of this game is also a lalafell player so it is you who are the heretic

[kind lark]

Wasn't Yoshi P something else before becoming a lala?

[teal geyser]

uh yeah

[gaunt star]

Yoshi P is the only valid lalafel player

[teal geyser]

I think he was Au Ra at a time

and that character used to be in Idyllshire

don't think so anymore though

[cinder badger]

@teal geyser so what was he before heavensward

[teal geyser]

Probably the Minstrel character

[cinder badger]

I think he's always had a fondness for the lalafell Black Mage

I remember that one event. It was like some Japanese game show and they had a bunch of developers together showcasing their games with their communities

[kind lark]

The minstrel was I was thinking of

[cinder badger]

And somebody got the memo wrong so Yoshida was left alone dancing by himself on his lalafell

He was pissed

[kind lark]

Angry lalas are scary

[cinder badger]

https://youtu.be/gDTpe3-31ZA

Like he was embarrassed and everybody was talking about how somebody must have gotten fired that night

You had these other two MMOs with people around and dancing and all that stuff and then you had Final Fantasy XIV and it was just the lalafell in minfilia gear dancing alone

I think it was something like there was a miscommunication and people were told to go to one server and Yoshida went to another...

[gaunt star]

Poor yoshi

[unique verge]

That's definitely something you get fired for though

[cinder badger]

Okay so I found the bit you guys were talking about with the wandering Minstrel

During E3 2016, Yoshida visited various servers on the character "Eee Yoshida", classed as a Level 60 Black Mage. His appearance and glamor matched the Wandering Minstrel aside from weapon and Jewelry.

I think I recall an interview where Yoshida said he played Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 for like 10 minutes and then said "I'm done"

[somber storm]

"That's it, I'm burning the game down"

[gaunt star]

“Drop the moon.”

[cinder badger]

What I like about Yoshida is that he's not just a developer that communicates with the players.

He is literally part of the community, like he plays the game too and does these things where he visits the different servers

Also he is The Game's biggest troll

[unique verge]

There's more to it than that

This community doesnt realize just how good they have it, having Yoshi P as a game director, compared to how WoW is run.

I'm gonna go fetch a shitpost (but accurate) meme out of #rants that i made

brb

[cinder badger]

I wish I could have played Dragon Quest 10

[kind lark]

Coming from Gw2, having a dev that does like touring the community is nuts

[unique verge]

He doesnt just play. He's GOOD at it.

[wary perch]

I remember Yoshi said the reason he chose a lala is because usually smaller character are harder to see and has smaller hitbox in pvp

[unique verge]

Our boy is a purple parser on his "public" character

[cinder badger]

@unique verge that's exactly what I mean though

[unique verge]

meanwhile WoW's director is greyparsing trash

[somber storm]

Goddamn small hitboxes

[unique verge]

and yes, those are real

[cinder badger]

The fact that he actively plays his game and actually understands it sets him apart from other Developers

[unique verge]

I would not be surprised if he's orange/pink on his private character

[wary perch]

Doesn't the public character has minmax stats?

[unique verge]

Its some template that exists on every server

I assume the stats are "correct" for BLM

[cinder badger]

So you know when people bitching complain about him not caring because he doesn't give them exactly what they want they really don't understand that in his thought process he's not just thinking like a developer for a video game company he's also thinking like one of the players

[wet crown]

Wonder if EW is finally the point they'll make leveling BLM bearable

[unique verge]

Seriously

[kind lark]

fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 fire 1

[unique verge]

BLM leveling is so dumb

[wet crown]

That's not the issue

[unique verge]

Particularly 60-67

Fuck everything about that range

[cinder badger]

It's kind of funny because that's his preferred job is Black Mage

[wet crown]

• Blizzard II upgrades to Freeze at 35
• Fire II upgrades to Flare at 50
• Aspect Mastery at 50

Boom. Fixed leveling BLM

[kind lark]

You want more? ok, fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 transpose fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 fire transpose fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 transpose fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 fire

[unique verge]

I'd say "Enhanced Freeze built into Freeze"

also

[wet crown]

transpose? what

[unique verge]

Okay so, BLM levelling is stupid, but wtf are you doing

[wet crown]

oh, pre blizzard and fire III

[gaunt star]

Spamming Fire 1

[wet crown]

but where are your blizzard I in this?

[kind lark]

Ok so replace transpose with blizzard 1

[cinder badger]

Don't you mean blizzard 3

If you cast blizzard one after your fire phase you're just going to cancel out your astral/umbral

[unique verge]

It has to be done.

!faq blmleveling

[lusty shadow]

THM/BLM leveling rotations

[unique verge]

6.0 needs to put an end to this bot command existing.

[kind lark]

Ok so blizzard 3 then

Fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 fire 1

[cinder badger]

Playing Black Mage is playing Megumin

[kind lark]

fire 4 fire 4 fire 4 fire 4

[cinder badger]

EXPLOSION

[kind lark]

Also see sub 40 is that dumb and 50 isn't any better. Fire 1 fire 1 fire 1 fire 1

[cinder badger]

I found that in quite a few MMO's that's kind of how Mages are. They get a certain set of spells and then those spells just right up but that's basically all you cast in your rotations

You don't get one two three combos like you do with the melee or even the range jobs you're usually relegated to Casting one bread and butter spell over and over until it proc something in which then you cast the thing it procs

[kind lark]

I was talking about 50 but yeah replace transpose with blizzard 3 still standing there pressing one button

[maiden lodge]

i mean, do thundercloud things too

[unique verge]

The biggest problem with it, in my opinion (and this goes for a couple other jobs as well, but none as badly as BLM)

is that the levelling process for BLM until ~70 doesnt teach you jack shit about how to play BLM

[kind lark]

I'm sorry still not over leveling blm ptsd

[gaunt star]

I didn’t think it was that horrible

[autumn heron]

Same is true of SMN

[kind lark]

It's not as interesting as other leveling experiences but maybe I'm burnt out on it. Played it from the very beginning in Ul'dha till 5.3

[autumn heron]

SMN changes drastically every 10 levels

[gaunt star]

I pray they do something with egis in 6.0

[spiral mica]

yeah, like get rid of them completely

[gaunt star]

I wouldn’t go that far

[spiral mica]

i would. just turn them into spells, and link them to the trance phases

summoner as a pet job has always been stupid, and jank

[polar crater]

Oh so I take it you want the sumoner from the first 4 or so games? BLU is now that so I thought people would stop asking for this. SMN is a pet job.

[spiral mica]

its not tho

it used to be a dot mage/pet job hybrid

and has been transitioning into a trance phase summoner

[unique verge]

Pets are just DoT's that are occassionally stupid and unreliable

[spiral mica]

steadily

[polar crater]

SMN is the green mage of XIV. SMN is different in every game.

[spiral mica]

uh, no. lmao

summoner is one of the most consistent of all FF jobs

[polar crater]

White Mage in X says haha.

[spiral mica]

every iteration is a variation of the exact same concept

yeah Yuna is a WHM and SMN. and? the summons work in a similar fashion as they always have, albiet with expanded mechanics. so the summon is a party member

rather than a spell

[autumn heron]

Its just the main rotation for smn in xiv changes every 10 levels

[spiral mica]

the problem with summoner is it has a conflicted identity. is it a dot mage? a pet class? a summoner?

it keeps changing more and more into an actual summoner, but retaining too much of its previous design

making it feel a bint janky. like the various elements of its gameplay are disconnected from each other

probably also an issue with branching from ARC

[polar crater]

Also Squeenix changed one of the last games to have summons as dumb spells into well summons when they released remake. If you want summons as spells you are living a pipe dream, sorry but it just is never going to happen.

a pet class? a summoner?
Same thing.

[spiral mica]

its not the same. the fuck are you smoking?

beast master is a pet class

puppet master is a pet class

egis: pet. demis: summon

although in 14 they are less distinguishable mechanically, ill give you that

[polar crater]

You literally said that summons aren't pets despite that being objective fact for the past ~8 FF games. You have given me no reason to believe you know about summoner. SMN was a blm in 9, a whm in 10, and a green mage in 14. When summoner is it's own thing and not a party mechanic (12, 13, 8, 7, etc) it's combined with another magic class so that each game has it's own summoner. 15 was the first FF in 16 years to have summon spells and 9 only had it because it was designed as a love letter to the first 6 games. 8 started summons as PETS in 1999, 22 years ago, we will not have the summoner you want.

[exotic copper]

the only question is what you think a summoner was

it looks like you want them to just have the same pets... but with durations on them

which is kinda like changing nothing

[cinder badger]

Wait did you just say Guardian forces on Final Fantasy 8 were pets?

[spiral mica]

in all games prior to 10 they were spells

summoner has literally never been a pet class

except in 14

[exotic copper]

i mean it kinda is

its just a limited duration pet class

the duration being the turn you did the spell

[cinder badger]

The term pet glass exists for MMOs

[exotic copper]

That's not entirely true

But it is mostly used there

[cinder badger]

See this is the thing that annoys me the most is people try to use MMORPG terms to describe games from an era before MMOs

[exotic copper]

Nope. Stop.

Bad path.

[spiral mica]

ARPG's also use pet classes

[exotic copper]

Pet class comes from before mmos.

MMOs are just an amalgamation of tons of rpg mechanics and rarely have their own unique mechanics.

But understanding how those mechanics have adapted into mmo design and understanding they are not exactly like the RPGs they pull from, is important

Anyways, summons are essentially how you want them to be already, you just want more summons, which is cool.

I think the design is shifting that way

I would not be surprised to see another bahamut/phoenix summon in EW

[woeful dagger]

When are they gonna add FF13 Shiva twincest to FF14

[exotic copper]

hopefully yoshi has forgotten ff13 exists

[cinder badger]

Can I please just go back to 1992 where this shit didn't exist

And I could just happily play the games that I want to play without listening to all these stupid technical terms to describe "roles" and "mechanics" I was five years old and happy just to know I was playing a fucking knight or a fist fighting monk

[shut burrow]

Okay boomer 🙄🖐️

[exotic copper]

to be fair

you chose to participate

[brisk quail]

[cinder badger]

I didn't care about "tanking" or "dps" I just kicked ass

[exotic copper]

perspective is funny, you remember kicking ass

[next quarry]

[exotic copper]

I'm not convinced your 5 year old self was that competent at games.

[next quarry]

It's an MMO, gotta follow what the game gives ya

[cinder badger]

@next quarry yes in an MMO. But when you try to bring that same terminology into games that existed before that time it just sounds dumb

[exotic copper]

tanking and dps definitely existed in rpgs.

[pulsar current]

brb gotta parse in ff1

[brisk quail]

[woeful dagger]

@next quarry hi

[next quarry]

in FF3, Viking was a "tank" job

Hi

[brisk quail]

DnD. Has tank and healer classes.

[shut burrow]

Unless Yaoyao is a time travelling boomer

[exotic copper]

The idea of "damage per round" was talked about even then.

[cinder badger]

Knight in Final Fantasy 5 couldn't effectively "tank" anything because cover was your only way of soaking up damage from your party and it wasn't guaranteed

[next quarry]

Using provoke, they can use 2 shields to take little damage

[exotic copper]

some games don't have the trinity you're right

but just because some games dont have it, doesn't mean no games did

[cinder badger]

And referring to Summoners of anything before Final Fantasy 10 as a pet class is equally is dumb because you could not command them like actual pets

[exotic copper]

Yeah but you couldn't control your character like you can in 14 either

so

it's an equivalent exchange

The concept of the pet class is you aren't doing the damage, something else is

[cinder badger]

You could command your character to use the summoning spell and all it did was work exactly like a normal spell

[exotic copper]

or at least something is assisting you

[shut burrow]

Sounds just like a glorified strong spell

[exotic copper]

I mean, yeah, thats what the summoner unique spell thing is right

i forget the name

command?

[shut burrow]

Well what it all comes up too is, opinion

[cinder badger]

I'm pretty sure the summoning spell category was just called summon

[exotic copper]

No I mean in 14

the unique spell you get based on summon

[next quarry]

Enkindle

Egi assault

[exotic copper]

yeah

Anyway, it's a "pet class" in that something else does damage. But yeah it doesn't stick around.

But in combat, neither do smn's summons

bahamut/phoenix cycles, you know

[woeful dagger]

When are we gonna get the En-spells

That'd be neat

[next quarry]

Never

[woeful dagger]

Sadge

[next quarry]

Elemental Resistances are never coming back

Pls

[woeful dagger]

They don't need to

It'd just be a dps buff with a unique look

[cinder badger]

@exotic copper Summoner on 14 is a pet class because you summon the pet and it stays out and fights by your side. Kind of like how a hunter or a warlock on World of Warcraft are considered pet classes because they call on creatures to do all the fighting for them.

[exotic copper]

Sure.

[cinder badger]

But the way they were designed in previous titles made them nothing more than magic spells with pretty pictures

You couldn't exactly call those pets until Final Fantasy 10 when you actually commanded the pet to do things and it stayed out on the battlefield

[silk dragon]

i wish there were more Demi-sumons

[exotic copper]

The way previous titles were designed

it was hitting someone with a sword with a pretty picture

a spell was just a sword that costs mana

like its silly to make the distinction

[silk dragon]

or if Demi-Ramuh is just a pipedream

[exotic copper]

and a sword was just a metaphor for reducing life points to 0

like if you want to keep boiling it down

you can

But has always been at least partially pet oriented.

In the same way that someone who holds a bow in the old FF games is a 'ranged dps'

[shut burrow]

Demi-Ramuh was not only a pipedream it was a delusion

[silk dragon]

oh boy

[exotic copper]

a bow is just a sword

[woeful dagger]

Demi-Ryne-Shiva when

[shut burrow]

Demi-Tsukuyomi

You can make the enemies cry

[next quarry]

Demi Thicc Zenos

[woeful dagger]

Demi-Ravana would be cool

[shut burrow]

Demi-Hydaelyn

[silk dragon]

i prefer the classic FF summons first

[timid crystal]

Demi-Ryne-Shiva-Hraesvelgr (but instead of Ryne it's Thordan) when

[exotic copper]

Demi-Moore

[next quarry]

Demi Chocobo

[shut burrow]

Demi-Odin

[pulsar current]

Demi-Demi

[shut burrow]

Demi-Demi-Demi