retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[woeful dagger]

I like the look of the 510 Relic

[untold ravine]

Niw that i think about it

@woeful dagger boutta use that gif

[untold gull]

God, i need to grind that

[woeful dagger]

It's not so bad

Syrcus Tower takes about 5m for queue and another 10m to do.

[untold gull]

It's not that, i just don't have motivation

[untold ravine]

Cant believe rdm is the only relevant weapon :^)

[woeful dagger]

Now doing 15 Mhachi and 15 Ivalician raids...

[untold gull]

I actually like those so i have no problem with them

[patent axle]

i need to farm ivalice raids to become agrias

[woeful dagger]

They have real mechanics unlike CT so take longer due to people dying all the time lol

[patent axle]

didn't they nerf Ivalice raids

[drowsy belfry]

If you got people dying in VA there's something really wrong

Considering VA also doesn't have mechanics anymore

[untold gull]

I've gotten syrcus in roulette so many times that right now, i'm sick of it. Pretty sure i had a several month streak of only getting that one to a point that labyrinth was such a relief to see

But yeah, i also lack motivation

[woeful dagger]

Motivation, the killer of all gamers.

[sullen seal]

wanna feel worse? its 18 of each

not 15

getting one relic broke me

[woeful dagger]

which Mhachi and Ivalice raid is fastest. VA and Orbonne?

[sullen seal]

VA and rab

orbonne is still like 40 minutes

rab is 20ish

[woeful dagger]

lol

[sullen seal]

I wish orb was as short as rab Id have farmed that lol

[kindred meteor]

orb fun tho

[woeful dagger]

I wonder if we'll be able to solo CT in EW

[forest magnet]

you cannot

you need 3 ppl

if you're unsyncing

and anyways

unsyncing is gonna scale differently

[patent axle]

Yoshida : the stat rework doesnt mean you'll be weaker

Also Yoshida : unsync stuff will probably be harder

[rain onyx]

He’s saying that as a “just in case the stat squish makes some mechanics harder than intended”

[gaunt star]

Synced stuff will be the same

But unsync will be harder

Actually early expac synced stuff should be harder too

[brisk quail]

Like... look at it like this..

A boss has 1000 hp normally.

At level 1 you deal 5 damage. But at level 50 you deal 200.

[gaunt star]

We might have to do mechanics again in CT

[brisk quail]

So at 1000 hp it expects you you to deal 5 damage

[rain onyx]

The scaling is staying the same for 1-50

[brisk quail]

So when you go and stomp it as a level 50 it's no problem

[rain onyx]

So ARR content should be untouched for the most part

[brisk quail]

But they're going to squish it

So your damage will slightly decline at max level

So instead of 200. You'll be at... lets say 100.

So the early unsynced boss at level 1 is slightly harder

You'll still have a leg up

It just wont be as severe

Like... if you were to unsync CT

Phelg's wipe mechanic wouldn't kill you at level 60 and above

He can't... 9999 isn't a guaranteed wipe number at that point

But with a stat squish, there's a chance that number will be very close to your HP at that point

[untold gull]

the squish exists for 51-80

81-90 is the same progression as it is now

[gaunt star]

I don't see why the stat rework is necessary

[untold gull]

it's not a rework. just a squish. it's necessary on the back end of things

math fuckery, essentially

[kind lark]

At 90 we can go back to old content swat bosses off eorzea

[gaunt star]

I know, data length and so on.. but they should just rework their backend

imo

[untold gull]

that's why they explained it in great detail and were firm that no, that does not mean everyone gets weak relative to the boss

they should, but they can't

[woven escarp]

they're doing it because of the constant overflow errors

and honestly, there's no need for so many zeroes at the end of everything

if they just knocked off a single 0 from every stat nobody would know the difference

[untold gull]

with the state of the engine, they really need to either make a 2.0 of the ffxiv version of the engine, transfer to the current, better version of luminous engine (see project athea) or make a new one all together

[woven escarp]

FFXI had a max HP around 1500 at level 75

FFXIV has a max HP over 100,000

[untold gull]

and a boss with over 400mil hp

[rain onyx]

FFXI was all about horizontal progression

[gaunt star]

455mil yay

[woven escarp]

just because you have more bits doesn't mean you should fill them with useless numbers

[gaunt star]

FFXI.. oh I miss those days..

[rain onyx]

Tanks are reaching 200k, also

Or breaking past that

[gaunt star]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/742643125981413447/807677188483842068/fandanny_or_me.gif

SE looking at the code^

its burninggg

[woven escarp]

never going to happen, the amount of work a new engine is basically new MMO time

they've said this multiple times

[gaunt star]

yoshi p already said they'd have to halt or even close down FFXIV for that

[woven escarp]

ye

transitioning XIV to a new engine is basically just developing FFXIX instead

[untold gull]

Ya i know, the other dude said they should just rework their backend. I merely laid out the options to fix it with how old the engine is

And showed why it's not as easy

[woven escarp]

the fact XIV even has 64 bit support is a minor miracle, the engine is almost 12 years old

[gaunt star]

SE with their silly idea of having to use their own engines

[untold gull]

But imagine if they do, by some miracle, give us ffxiv on current luminous engine

[woven escarp]

I'm a little sad that I never got my adventurer's certificate printed from FFXIV 1.0

[untold gull]

My laptop would burn, but the game would be bootiful

[woven escarp]

XIV on unreal engine 4.26

HDR? raytracing? goddamn good water caustics??

[gaunt star]

XIV on UE5

[untold gull]

Oh god, that's right, UE5 exists now

[woven escarp]

UE5 is purely theoretical as far as I know?

[gaunt star]

no

it exists

[woven escarp]

the last dev build I saw publicly available was 4.26.3

[untold gull]

They even had a ps5 demo of it

[gaunt star]

but its not used yet

[woven escarp]

yeah, it doesn't exist if people can't make games using it yet

that's a 2023 problem

[untold gull]

Yeah, but the fact that it exists is more than enough

[gaunt star]

yeah but who lives who dies by then

You are all dreaming, lol.. that will never happen that they change to UE

ure just a party pooper

[woven escarp]

SE has largely admitted that trying to develop luminous was a mistake

and they were using UE for all new projects

[gaunt star]

isnt XVI UE4?

[woven escarp]

they wasted so much money trying to make luminous good

[untold gull]

Well, i mean, you were the one who suggested they just rework their backend

[woven escarp]

FFVIIR is

I think XVI might be too

[gaunt star]

That would be a "smaller" change than converting to UE... Can't compare that

[woven escarp]

the funny thing is that SE ran into the same texture streaming/readback problem that every RPG using UE runs into

it's like people know it's a thing and don't bother to try to mitigate it

[gaunt star]

But maybe I just think that because I don't know the state of their current engine...

[woven escarp]

🤔 the amount of effort required to blow up luminous' current duct taped source code and redesign it to be streamlined and efficient is literally the same as developing a new engine

[untold gull]

It's like hacked off the good parts of crystal tools, remade an engine from ground up just for an mmo. That's their engine.

[woven escarp]

exporting all the art assets to a UE-compatible format and making the appropriate modules for UE is much easier

XIV is held together by lots and lots of prayer

lmao

[gaunt star]

but Mr. Square Enix didnt care back then

[woven escarp]

if the omnissiah turns his gaze from the source code for even a second the whole thing will die

member when fishing in north shroud caused an entire data center to crash?

member when SE decided to poll the entire inventory list for every player in a zone when you change zones?

the lobby server system that couldn't handle more than 10 people trying to use it at a time so you'd just get force logged off if you tried to access it while the queue was full

[gaunt star]

I'm no game developer, but as a SW Engineer that awfully sounds like bad architecture and lots of dependencies where there shouldn't be any

[woven escarp]

that's because the game was developed in 2010

using a custom engine that wasn't really designed to be an MMO engine

it's the anthem problem but people don't like to admit that SE makes mistakes

[gaunt star]

They had some of the same problems already in FFXI...

[woven escarp]

nah, FFXI was developed for the PS2 first and then back-ported to PC

[untold gull]

REMEMBER WHEN FISHING IN LIMSA CAUSED A SERVER TO CRASH

[woven escarp]

all the lumpy shit in XI is quite literally because of PS2 limitations

[untold gull]

[woven escarp]

XIV was developed for PC initially and then SE ran into a lot of problems trying to get it to work on PS3

[gaunt star]

after ps5 we will start blaming ps4 for limitations

[woven escarp]

1.0 wasn't even available for the PS3, because the engine was so badly optimized for MMO

the pots in the streets of ul'dah had as many polygons as the player character models

wew

[untold gull]

i thought it had more polys than character models

[woven escarp]

you might be right

[gaunt star]

the 1k polygons meme

[woven escarp]

hero models were 10k and the pots were 15?

[gaunt star]

Is there any new FF MMO in the pipeline?

[woven escarp]

no

[gaunt star]

no

[woven escarp]

XIV is printing money and XI has been pure profit for the better part of 10 years

[untold gull]

most definitely not, especially not with how popular ffxiv still is

[woven escarp]

so there's no incentive to develop another

[gaunt star]

I'm still amazed that FFXI is still active

[untold gull]

they probably would just try and save face with a good single player for once

[woven escarp]

XI is "active" in the sense there's like 10k people still playing it

[dense shard]

ff14 is not even that old

[woven escarp]

but $12/mo x 10k when you don't have to actually do anything besides pay server costs

[dense shard]

its like from 2013

[woven escarp]

is great profit

[dense shard]

there is older mmos still running

[kindred meteor]

and new people still poke their head into XI bc they're curious

[woven escarp]

XI still looks good for a game released in 2002

it's definitely dated but not as bad as other games in its era

[kindred meteor]

plus they give XI new story content once every couple years or so

[woven escarp]

well, the new expac they're running now is a surprise

since they said rhapsodies was the end, until it wasn't

[dense shard]

why ppl still play XI and not ff14

[kindred meteor]

there are people that prefer XI's rather archaic design

and people that are attached to the characters they made and developed in XI

[dense shard]

[kindred meteor]

sometimes I get the small but still existing feeling of wanting to go back to the MMOs I played in high school, despite how trash they are

[gaunt star]

I actually like(d) FFXI... Pre COP anyway...

[kindred meteor]

it's called nostalgia

[woven escarp]

chains of promathia was arguably SE's best MMO effort

huge expansion, great story

[gaunt star]

Don't know... Didn't really catch me

[woven escarp]

I mean, we're about to play the end of COP in 6.0

the dusk god boutta get he lights knocked da fuggout

[patent axle]

Using a custom engine that wasn't really designed to be a good engine**

[heady shadow]

ah yes.

crystal tools

ff13's hell

[patent axle]

Crystal Tools is poopy poop

Luminous is a tad bit better

because it actually works

[untold gull]

with the ffxiii trilogy having ended, i hope they finally dismantled it

[patent axle]

Crystal Tools on PC is hell

[woven escarp]

"works"

DXMD uses luminous, doesn't it?

as do the TR remakes

[patent axle]

I mean, with luminous at least you don't have the huge framedrops crystal tools has

and uuuh

well

[heady shadow]

luminous is just a better version fo crystal tools

[patent axle]

it could be worse

[woven escarp]

could be the hero engine

or electron

[heady shadow]

least it doesnt cost much to put Noctis in ffxiv

[patent axle]

Crystal Tools but most of the bad shit is gone

[heady shadow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9nrV1Oi6Ak

yeeweah boi

[patent axle]

why does this remind me of crystarium

especially the big structure

[woven escarp]

yeah, that was definitely their inspiration

[untold gull]

because that walkway is crystarium

[woven escarp]

I think they intended that to be limsa but they never actually put the big stained glass windows in

[patent axle]

Square Enix creating Crystarium : yo i'm lazy

let's take those old assets, noone will notice

[untold gull]

lol

take those assets, put the crystal tower behind it

[woven escarp]

crystal tower 😔

[onyx sundial]

Everyone noticed when they said they said they did use the old 1.0 town

[woven escarp]

some things are better left closed

[teal geyser]

It was proto Limsa yeah

[woven escarp]

well, that tech demo city is never used anywhere in 1.0 either

it's not really like, "lost" and reused

they just took the video and shoved it into the current engine

[heady shadow]

theres nothing that can ru the tech demo good either

[woven escarp]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[patent axle]

Let's go dig in old shit to try and guess new locations !

[woven escarp]

the gap is narrowing as UE improves

like that project metahuman thing is absurd

a whole lot of artists are starting to sweat now

[heady shadow]

lol

[patent axle]

I KINDA wish they put the 1.0 map in the current engine and let us play on it

But that would probably be too much work

[heady shadow]

iirc someone has a arr out of bounds

still has some 1.0 mapo shit left

[onyx sundial]

Hahaaaa

Nightmare

[patent axle]

Yeah

[woven escarp]

there was a guy who was using a teleport tool to go out of bounds

[patent axle]

but most of the stuff is gone

[patent axle]

NIGHTMARE

OKAY

1.0 servers would be a bad idea

BUT

[woven escarp]

the fragments in north shroud near dalamud have no collision

and there's nothing past them

[patent axle]

redoing 1.0 under the current version

So with all the 1.0 bad stuff gone

[woven escarp]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

1.23 was actually good

the 1.0 problem was that there wasn't anything to do

half the mobs didn't have AI until you attacked them

they just kind of like, loitered in a small patrol area near their spawns

also, because it was a seamless world and SE didn't really know what to do, there's just a lot of copy/pasted terrain elements

[patent axle]

1.23 was OKAY

BUt

[woven escarp]

especially in gridania

[patent axle]

still lacky af

That's why I laugh at the people who are like

Oh my gooooooood ARR is so boring!!!!!!

bitch

[woven escarp]

the only thing to do in 1.0 was mine lmao

[patent axle]

@ me when you'll have played legacy

[woven escarp]

harvesting sucked

combat was a huge bag of dicks with the insanely punishing stamina system

"wehhhh TP runs out too quickly"

pfft

you nerds didn't have to deal with getting two attacks per fight and you just had to stand there getting beat on until your stamina recharged

[patent axle]

There's some dude who told me "yOu'Ll HaVe ThE rIgHt To TaLk AbOuT jOb BaLaNcE wHeN yOu'Ll ClEaR aN uLtImAtE"

[untold gull]

lmao

[patent axle]

bitch, you'll have the right to talk about FFXIV the day you'll clear legacy endgame

[woeful dagger]

1.0 was definitely not a "you have something to do every day" kind of MMO

[untold gull]

is that someone who hasn't experience TP

[woven escarp]

pfft

[patent axle]

oh wait

you can't

[woven escarp]

TP was a concession they put in because stamina was fucking stupid

stamina legitimately ran out after two strong attacks

[untold gull]

can't speak for 1.0 but i did found 2.0 boring just because of the lack of skills and the fetch quest

[woven escarp]

there were a bunch of iterations to 1.0 combat

[patent axle]

y'all remember when farming mobs was limited because of fatigue ?

that was so fun haha

[rain onyx]

Experience *

[patent axle]

that's what i meant

[royal scroll]

Omg I fucking hated that

[woeful dagger]

They used the WoW Beta model for absolutely no reason lol

[patent axle]

"guys there's no content in our game"

"put a fatigue system they'll progress slower"

[royal scroll]

1.0 was so hell

[patent axle]

It was

I played legacy, I went

ok

[woven escarp]

initially it was stamina that drained based on the attacks you did, then it was a TP charge system like XI, then it was a hybrid system where TP regenerated over time, then they went to the current system where you have TP that drains as you use abilities

[royal scroll]

And the fucking marketplace

[patent axle]

then I stopped my sub and went back to XI

[royal scroll]

Omg the marketplace

[woven escarp]

reminder that the market ward system is how housing works lmaooooooooooo

[patent axle]

lmao

housing is shit anyway

Imma buy an apartment in Ishgard and i'll be happy with that

if i'm lucky i'll get a house in Shirogane

[woeful dagger]

it's kinda interesting to me how many people buy houses just to buy them

and their house is the most basic bitch thing

[patent axle]

I wish you could put a pvp zone in your house

it would be so epic

[tropic frigate]

just let them pvp in housing wards

they fight for a house regardless

[patent axle]

Just let me bring someone in my house,

just to beat the shit outta him

YOU THOUGHT YOUD GET ERP BUT IT WAS I, PVP

[woven escarp]

joke's on you, that IS ERP for them

[woeful dagger]

my favorite thing about housing is getting free gil from botters

[teal geyser]

It was as good as it could be given the fundamental bedrock that 1.0 was rooted upon

Still had shit combat and awful systems and whatnot

[woeful dagger]

having to cycle between hotbars

[wet crown]

teleporting used up anima

[woven escarp]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

I liked it

[patent axle]

They should just

entirely remake the game

[woven escarp]

when drg had a use for all that MP it has for no reason

[patent axle]

under an apropriate engine

[heady shadow]

UE5 man

[wet crown]

I wouldn't put it past the higher-up monkeys to make the devs programm a whole new, shitty and limited engine instead

[woven escarp]

UE5 FF MMO would be 🔥

but also at least a 10 year dev cycle if FFVIIR is any indication

[heady shadow]

well, it's MMO's that need 10 years

not first person games.

looks at cp2077

and ffxv

[obsidian pagoda]

ooooh new channel name, fancy

[woeful dagger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzLUASTdV5g

always a fun watch

Last 30m~ of 1.0

[plucky palm]

Could it be that the sex pistols shirt was a hint for pandaemonium instead of a new job?

The same guy who made that sex pistols made a movie named pandaemonium

[high swan]

Where was the sex pistols tshirt

[plucky palm]

On the showcase

[high swan]

The Filth and the Fury?

[plucky palm]

Yep

[high swan]

Oh. Didn't realise. But the t-shirt itself isn't a sex pistol shirt tho

If I understand correctly

[untold gull]

eh, a game would need 10 years if they're developing new tech in it. cp2077 was developing new tech in it (new lip sync tech they had was awesome) but of course, doesn't change the fact that it crashed so hard

[maiden lodge]

He literally switched shirts to it during the second play of the Sage reveal video during the New Jobs part of the keynote presentation.

Why would he t-shirt-tease to promote discussion for something he was revealing in an hour?

Makes no fuckin sense mate

[untold gull]

is it bad that i like that old hud? it looked clean af minus the chat

[woven escarp]

I liked it too

[plucky palm]

Do you have the link to previous announcements? I need to check something

[open verge]

The shirt is a job hint

[plucky palm]

Btw it makes more sense that way, think about it. The same director made a movie named pabdaemonium, and yoshi p's hints were pretty straightforward

[open verge]

Hint at Pandemonium and then reveal nothing about it what a meme

[woven escarp]

🤔

[plucky palm]

Where did he wore the job shirts? On the same showcase or after?

[open verge]

Where else would he wear job shirts

[plucky palm]

So, why would he wear a shirt teasing something that won't show up the same day if he didn't do it before?

[heady shadow]

because thats how we does things

[plucky palm]

It's a straightforward hint but people made it look more complicated than it really is

[heady shadow]

yep

[woeful dagger]

It may have looked clean but it was crazy limiting.

[woven escarp]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

there are some salient hints like "the job is called reaper" but then people decided it was templar because of some rabbit hole digging

[obsidian pagoda]

The combat was sooooo sloooooow

from that 1.0 video

[woven escarp]

and nobody can agree on the weapon

[loud violet]

endwalker been leaked since 5.0

[woeful dagger]

They tried to go down the same 'director' line that Samurai was, but it would be highly unlikely Yoshida would use the exact same method for hinting at a Job.

[woven escarp]

especially since going "the director's name was temple, therefore the job is called templar"

[woeful dagger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goKSqF9fldE

[woven escarp]

that's a stretch even a yoga guru would be proud of

[subtle pasture]

It's almost like it's just speculation

The only one off the table is Necromancer for them joking about it

and even then, is it

[woven escarp]

yes, it is

[obsidian pagoda]

Literally a turn-based game

[woven escarp]

necromancer is never happening

you might get something like necromancer, like puppetmaster

[woeful dagger]

Don't quote me on it but I believe 1.0 was forced to have 400ms kinda like PvP has

[woven escarp]

but never "raises the dead" necromancer

[woeful dagger]

I think ARR is forced 200ms

[woven escarp]

I don't think it's that long

[obsidian pagoda]

Every spell was server side I believe

so the server has to parse way too many things at once

[woven escarp]

there are a handful of AOEs that telegraph much shorter than 200ms

[woeful dagger]

shoutouts to autoing Garuda while facing away from her

[woven escarp]

something SE didn't re-add until 4.0 lmao

[woeful dagger]

also love in that vid people using macros for Garuda Hard mechanics. never change NA.

[woven escarp]

what's wrong with macros?

[woeful dagger]

nothing inherently. but people also don't read chat during combat cause i guess multitasking is too hard

[woven escarp]

as far as I know macros are how JP determines a raid strat

it's timed out for the entire fight

[obsidian pagoda]

The models for 1.0 look good but damn the gameplay sucked balls

[woeful dagger]

FFUnion has a good vid on FF11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUAJ-cJbOFY

man i miss that mid-90s to mid-00s Square

they could basically take any genre and pump out an incredibly successful game

[obsidian pagoda]

That's the kind of arrogance that lead to XIV 1.0

being a shit game

[gaunt star]

Mhm

[woeful dagger]

1.0 would have been successful imo if people could actually load it lol

[plucky palm]

Squaresoft ≠ Square enix (Quality wise)

[woven escarp]

1.0 was very much in the same vein as XI

it was a sandbox game but they didn't really have, like, anything to do in the sandbox

[woeful dagger]

the only reason 1.0 failed is they basically only tried to improve graphics and nothing else from FF11, while juggernauts like GW and WoW were constantly innovating the genre. SE basically added none of the things that made sense in a game being released in 2010

[woven escarp]

they tried some new/innovative things, but the problem was that the game was basically a privserv level of build quality until 1.20

lol

[plucky palm]

It wasn't 1.0 only problem

[woven escarp]

no functioning mob AI in most cases, no story content, huge swathes of empty map

[woeful dagger]

the hardest content in 1.0 was Hard mode Primals lol

[unreal wadi]

i saw those

aurum vale 1.0 runs

[woven escarp]

😌

[unreal wadi]

which involved skipping the entire dungeon

[woven escarp]

aurum vale

[unreal wadi]

[woven escarp]

well, you had to lmao

goldlung just killed you

instead of giving you a dot

[woeful dagger]

AF gear and Primal weapons were the best gear in 1.0, kinda funny.

[woven escarp]

[woeful dagger]

Then in ARR that gear was pretty quickly replaced.

[unreal wadi]

ironworks

[woven escarp]

well, that was true in XI too

AF was the pinnacle of your gear at launch

and then zilart came out and AF got yeeted for vastly superior gear

[woeful dagger]

that Sylvarion guy has a lot of 1.0 vids on YT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs8nEtHrCr8

[plucky palm]

XI was a great game, the reason why 1.0 failed was because it had a lot of technical problems

[woven escarp]

never forget that war AF has fucking enmity+ on it because SE intended war to be a tank

even though war tanking was a huge meme since it has one mitigation skill that's junk lmaoooo

[obsidian pagoda]

I think in the NoClip doco they explicitly said that they weren't worried about the other MMO competition because they were Square Enix and their name alone will sustain the game... Which was proven to be complete hubris

[woeful dagger]

Well also the fact that people didn't see a need to leave 11 yet. And still don't, as it has like 200k+ subs still.

14 was not enough of an upgrade over 11 and they didn't shut down 11

So people just... Didn't leave.

[woven escarp]

they have no reason to shut down XI

[woeful dagger]

I know, just saying it contributed to the downfall of 1.0

[woven escarp]

people still pay to play it and the dev cost is pretty close to zero

so it's literally straight profit

I kind of wish they'd bring back the combined sub discount they offered for a while with 1.0 😔

[woeful dagger]

They were hoping graphics alone would carry 14 and nothing else.

I know they planned on releasing 2 raids in 1.0, though I am unsure when that was abandoned. Probably sometime in mid 2011.

[plucky palm]

I wonder what those raids would be about

[woeful dagger]

I know it wasn't CT. If I had to guess, it was Imperial stuff.

Although it could very well have been going to Dalamud and killing Bahamut for good.

[woven escarp]

nah, nobody knew what was inside dalamud

that was the point of the yoshi-p story sequence

[obsidian pagoda]

The whole Bahamut thing was made after Yoshi took over

[woven escarp]

everyone was like "wait, what???" when the moon exploded over eorzea

[obsidian pagoda]

"That's no moon!"

[woeful dagger]

That doesn't mean the story wasn't in the pipeline before Yoshida took over

[woven escarp]

tanaka had no plans for something like that

the moon appeared after yoshi-p took over

it was funny watching the patches progress because dalamud got bigger in the sky with every patch

[obsidian pagoda]

AFAIK it wasn't at all. Nael was a model used by GMs in game and not an actual character

[woeful dagger]

I dunno if Tanaka really had plans. The future of 1.0 fell apart like within 6 months of the game releasing.

[woven escarp]

tanaka just thought the game would run itself like XI

[plucky palm]

How different was the story?

[woeful dagger]

Basically the same

[woven escarp]

there wasn't a story in 1.0 lmao

[woeful dagger]

You run around and kill Primals.

[woven escarp]

there's a cutscene where a goobbue runs rampant in ul'dah and you meet ascilia

then you're on your own until yoshi-p takes over

[plucky palm]

Wasn't somewhere a video with every custscene?

[woven escarp]

that's probably based on 1.23

which has actual story content

I know there's something like an hour of cutscenes just involving gaius before 2.0

[plucky palm]

Oh, it really sucked then

[woeful dagger]

you did meet the Scions iirc but that didn't really go anywhere

[plucky palm]

Even XI had an story

Or did it have one when it launched?

[woven escarp]

XI had the nation mission line

which ended with you beating up the shadowbringer in xarcabard

[woeful dagger]

11's story is so convoluted it's hard to call it a single story. it's more like a hundred plot threads loosely connected

[woven escarp]

yeah

[plucky palm]

I'm talking about vanilla story

[woven escarp]

the nation mission stories have nothing to do with zilart, promathia, or aht urghan

[woeful dagger]

Imagine if instead of us having a clear reason to attack the Empire, instead the Empire just showed up and we fought them that patch and the story was wrapped up that patch.

That's how 11 was

Shit just happened and was resolved

[plucky palm]

But it had an story, right? Unlike XIV's 1.0

[woven escarp]

yeah

the story in XI's base game was that there was some nebulous evil shit happening and you were asked by your nation's government to go investigate

and you end up discovering that the evil is the result of a war that happened like 30 years before the game started, embodied in a resurrected version of the leader of the enemy forces

it has nothing to do with the zilart or anything that happens in promathia, for the same time bubble reasons that you have basically no interaction between old and new content in XIV

although wings of the goddes does revisit the shadowreign era and teach you a few new things about the nature of dynamis and the world of vana'diel

[plucky palm]

No wonder why 1.0 failed

[woven escarp]

no, 1.0 didn't even have that much story lmao

it was literally just like "here's a big open world, go exploring my guy"

[teal geyser]

oh shit

phew

for a second I thought those were FFXI spoilers

[woeful dagger]

1.0 was very much "go find stuff to do" kind of game

[teal geyser]

thankfully I already did that bit

[plucky palm]

Yeah, i know

[woven escarp]

I mean, the rank 5 mission in XI is pretty easy to do lmao

[plucky palm]

I was refering to XIV not having story until later

[teal geyser]

There is a lot to do in XI before then

[woeful dagger]

i think that was by design somewhat

[woven escarp]

not when XI first came out

[teal geyser]

Like farming weird bees for their honey to give to FUCKING GILGAMESH AHHHHH

[woven escarp]

rank 5 xarcabard mission was the capstone of the story

zilart added norg

once you finished with the shadowlord the story was over

[teal geyser]

Seriously that part of Rhapsodies suuuucks

[topaz dune]

wading through diarrhea more likely

[woeful dagger]

in terms of mmos, honestly 11 didn't have much going for it gameplay or story wise compared to Lineage, DAoC, EverQuest but it did have the community which is what keeps it going to this day

[woven escarp]

the fact you could play all the jobs was pretty revolutionary

and even though it penalized your XP for dying, it was much less punishing than EQ's "haha go find your shit or lose it forever nerd" death penalty

[woeful dagger]

yeah but the combat honestly was pretty sucky

[wintry vault]

im really excited for the stardew valley thing that comes out in 6.0. but im worried it wont be good for making gil, or being fully fleshed out. i really worry it's gonna be a shell of a feature

[woven escarp]

I liked the TP system

and the renkei system was insanely complicated even though you only ever needed to know how to do distortion

[maiden lodge]

If it's anything like this kind of content in the past; it'll start out basic as a proof of concept, then get fleshed out over time into something enjoyable for its target audience, even if it doesn't pan out to be universally loved.

[teal geyser]

I hate the targetting but generally it's okay actually

[maiden lodge]

ANd that, for an MMO, is a good place to be

[wintry vault]

that's fair, i appreciate the response. it feels the issue a lot of people have with se creating stuff is that they're always not fleshed out on release

[teal geyser]

The skillchain chart is fucking bullshit though it hurts my head

[wintry vault]

i havent been around for a new xpac or a new weird feature

[maiden lodge]

Honestly, that's normal for MMOs in general.

[woven escarp]

lmao

[wintry vault]

so i'm curious what will happen

[woven escarp]

I love the renkei system

[teal geyser]

Is that what it is called?

[maiden lodge]

SE doesn't tend to 'rush things out of the gate'

[wintry vault]

i've always primarily been a raider and not much else

[woven escarp]

ye

[teal geyser]

I like it's idea too but I hate how complicated it is

and there isn't really any in-game uh, chart to learn

[maiden lodge]

Raiding is actually a good example, cause you can see over time how it's evolved, through iteration, mistakes, and triumphs.

[wintry vault]

so i dont really have experience with the fun little weird features

[woven escarp]

it's complicated because there's 30 goddamn jobs and so many interactions to open/close skillchains

[teal geyser]

so it's just like "I'll guess I'll never know"

[woven escarp]

that's why people only bothered to learn distortion

[wintry vault]

it is, it is. but the classes themselves are usually fleshed out nicely, whether or not they feel nice to play or whatever else

[woven escarp]

also because distortion boosted thunder/ice magic, which were the objectively best magic spells to cast because of how they calculated damage

[wintry vault]

but im just... hopeful, i guess

we've got 9 months

[maiden lodge]

It's not like WoW where they throw in a kitchen sink of new mechanics and shit, and then find out it doesn't work and have to rebuild from scratch

[wintry vault]

yeah

that was painful

wow is painful

[woven escarp]

for whatever stupid ass reason there's a base damage constant for each magic spell in XI

but the constant is lowest for stone and highest for thunder

by like 40%

[obsidian pagoda]

I hate the Borrowed Power system in WoW where everything changes every patch and you have to grind again and again

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, that's... that's a whole different ball of wax

[woven escarp]

even doing something stupid like casting stone on a scission burst on earthsday during earth weather while wearing elemental affinity boosting gear wouldn't offset just casting thunder off distortion

[teal geyser]

wait

there is earth weather too?

[woven escarp]

yes

[teal geyser]

fuck me

[woven escarp]

dust/sandstorms

XIV has the same weather rules as XI, but it doesn't mean anything in XIV

[teal geyser]

I knew days affected stuff but didn't realise the weather did too, I expected that out of geomancer but not every job

[woven escarp]

in XI weather and day of the week matter

only a few zones even have earth weather, like east/west altepa

[teal geyser]

Never heard of that place

[woven escarp]

it's also why healing is less effective in xarcabard, since it's permanent dark weather

[teal geyser]

Neat

[maiden lodge]

The difference between CBU3 and Blizz is that CBU3 really thinks its core progression systems are solid and work, on a grand scale. People complain about some aspects of it, but at the end of the day, it does the job and doesn't make life terrible for us, and it's consistant and we know what we're going to get.

[teal geyser]

I'll keep that in mind when I go there

[cinder badger]

Looking for Squonk

[teal geyser]

Honestly FFXI mechanics being tied to the lore so heavily is really fucking cool but my god do they do it in the most unfun way

[woven escarp]

yeah, the way XI's mechanics are designed into and around the lore is 👌

[teal geyser]

They way it's designed into everything else though 👎

[maiden lodge]

So, when next expansion drops, we already know its release schedule. .1 will be a 24 man, .2 a new raid tier, .3 the next 24 man, etc. They don't throw the rug out from under us, instead, they build on top of that framework.

[woven escarp]

"why can't we have necromancers? the pirates in norg are necromancers"

[wintry vault]

yah, i understand that.

[woven escarp]

"well, since undead only come out at night, we didn't want players to be useless during the day"

[obsidian pagoda]

Their philosophy is completely different now. XIV's engagement isn't measured in hours like WoW is. That's why the WoW carrot keeps moving, and every interaction is just to squeeze that little more minutes from players

[wintry vault]

it's more new xpac itself

[teal geyser]

oh they are?

[teal geyser]

bullshit

[woeful dagger]

doing the same thing every expansion with no change isn't exactly exciting either though

[plucky palm]

XI had a thief, unlike XIV

[wintry vault]

ive been around for enough patches to know the pattern

[teal geyser]

Lazy devs

[woven escarp]

yeah, they are

[wintry vault]

but, new features. i know that se is very, very safe with 14

but im excited about their new stuff

[woven escarp]

the pirates that attack the selbina ferry are from norg

[maiden lodge]

Oh that's also a good point. CBU3's philosophy is 'We're profitable with 1/100th of you all subbing so if you need to go do other shit, go right ahead, we trust you'll come back.'

[teal geyser]

I haven't done any Selbina ferry attack yet

but I just assumed all these pirates were simply ninjas

[woven escarp]

they're undead

[cinder badger]

XI had BLU and it wasn't limited

[teal geyser]

Wait no way

Norg is the place Gilgamesh is right?

[woven escarp]

the ones you interact with in the port aren't the same

yeah

[teal geyser]

Oh they aren't the same

got it

[woven escarp]

there's a dock at the edge of norg and you can see the pirate ship that attacks the ferries docked there sometimes

[cinder badger]

Gilgamesh in Final Fantasy XI was a pirate leader

[woven escarp]

but those pirates are necromancers, they're undead and out during the day

[cinder badger]

I believe he was also lions father

[maiden lodge]

Different genre of game works differently.

[teal geyser]

okay so the undead pirates and normal Norg pirates are different and also aren't part of the same group right

[woven escarp]

that I don't know

[teal geyser]

Fair

not like it's easy to learn FFXI lore

if only they world built before laying it on thick

[woven escarp]

but those pirates are the ones that people pointed to as justification for necromancer

SE finally relented and put puppetmaster instead

which is arguably even more horrifying since they take distilled souls and jam them into dead metal frames

wew

[cinder badger]

20 years ago from the game start the various Beast tribes of the world organized under the banner of one shadowlord against the Allied races of altana

That's a pretty simple start

[woven escarp]

pretty much everything in XI is designed to keep you, the character, out of the loop

like when you trade in your beast coins to shami in jeuno

he's like "oh yeah, these are totally worthless, just give them to me and I'll get rid of them for you (what a fuckin rube)"

[teal geyser]

...........

[woven escarp]

mammets in XI are indentured servants who can't even die to escape

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cinder badger]

Well Necromancy was also practiced by the Lamia

[woven escarp]

that's why it's funny that XIV brought them back and they're supposed to be these cute proto-AIs with clockwork logic processors

when the lore behind them in XI is 🤔

[cinder badger]

Yeah Final Fantasy XI had some darker things going on

[teal geyser]

yeah and they start talking about xarcabard and some weird party of people out there and some dude kills the Galka of the group and it's like, "why is this bad, who are these people, this is irrelevant to what i'm doing, why does San d'Oria have such a military presence at this border"

[cinder badger]

That's not to say 14 doesn't have anything dark going on but XI had a lot of messed up shit

[teal geyser]

and there is just a lot of "who what when where?"

A lot of my time of XI is someone mentioning a name of something and I'm like, "is that a person, a region, a city, a nation, what the fuck is that?"

[woven escarp]

XI is very much a D&D campaign curated by someone who really wants to see you reroll your character sheet every session

XIV is more like a marvel movie

[teal geyser]

but you're also doing every session at the same time

[maiden lodge]

I'd go so far as to say more like the MCU

[woven escarp]

also, XI's lore is virtually impenetrable 20 years later

[maiden lodge]

Where everything has this connection even if it's not apparent immediately

Also Wandavision mmmmmm

[teal geyser]

It is now with the books and live action show

[woven escarp]

but when it was new it was much more manageable

[teal geyser]

Yeah it really frustates me

I want to play FFXI for the story and lore

[woven escarp]

"ah, that's the shadowlord, got it"

[teal geyser]

but the lore is so hard

[woven escarp]

there's no restrictions on when you can start rhapsodies

which is dumb as fuck because rhapsodies ties into the story content from five different expansions

[teal geyser]

I'm uh, in some weird dark world after going into one of the....weird looking things in the thesomething plateau and frankly I have no idea what's happening in the lore

[woven escarp]

so you're being thrown stuff as if you had known it the whole time

[cinder badger]

Okay so they were sent on an expedition to Xarc and one of the humes tries to kill Raogrimm but another hume whom he was fond of steps in to protect him. This grieved Raogrimm and as he lay there dying he was met by the dark Rider Odin who then formed a pact with him in order to get vengeance thus becoming the Shadowlord

[teal geyser]

o...kay

I don't think I was meant to know that yet

but I see the connection now

[woven escarp]

that's not much of a spoiler, you find out who the shadowlord is in the rank 5 mission to xarcabard

[teal geyser]

Yeah I think I'm right before rank 5

[woven escarp]

ah, rip

[teal geyser]

btw seriously

[cinder badger]

Raogrimm was a Talekeeper, a rare individual among the Galka who retains all the memories of their previous lives. This is even less spoilery if you started in bastok. Gumbah is also a talekeeper

[teal geyser]

#retired-patch-6-3-discussion message
What I said before, who thought that part was good gameplay too fuck me

it took me 2 hours even with a guide to get out

[woven escarp]

uhhhhhhHHHHH

[teal geyser]

Oh yeah I know about talekeepers

[woven escarp]

the atomos heads take you to the shadowreign areas

[teal geyser]

not those

[woven escarp]

hopefully you didn't go into dynamis lmao

[teal geyser]

no no no

Not THAT dark world

one where like everything is getting eaten away

[woven escarp]

🤔

[teal geyser]

and there were some mobs that were super depressing

one second

[cinder badger]

Zeid is a badass Dark Knight who was a dear friend of Raogrimm.

[woven escarp]

oh, abyssea

fun fact, abyssea was the content that yoshi-p worked on before being assigned to XIV

you can see a lot of that influence in things like eureka and bozja

[teal geyser]

I don't

but to be fair I only started it

[woven escarp]

I mean the mechanics

[teal geyser]

frankly I'm not sure if I should

I'm so confused on the best way to go about the game because I was following a guide but it's so confusing to get the plot

[woven escarp]

the way you do content and get awarded currency for rewards is very bozja/eureka

[teal geyser]

okay in that way yes I get you

I did hear about the rewards from it

[woven escarp]

abyssea is why a lot of Ultra Hardcore Elite players quit

[cinder badger]

So do you yet know the truth of the Archduke?

[teal geyser]

I know it kinda but moreso because of other media like Dissidia

[woven escarp]

because it was relatively easy to do and gave good rewards for less effort than grinding skeletons in king ranperre's tomb for 500 years

eald'narche

[cinder badger]

You find out in Rise of the zilart

Think Seto Kaiba and mokuba if mokuba was the one calling the shots

So basically season 0 Seto Kaiba and mokuba

[signal solar]

oh no cal lost the legacy staff role

[cinder badger]

Wait you can lose legacy??

[signal solar]

no not 1.0 player status

[cinder badger]

0h gods don't scare me like that

[floral aurora]

🌒

[signal solar]

yes

[cinder badger]

"Give BLM more explosions"

[floral aurora]

And make sure fire 1 isn't part of the level 90 rotation xD

[cinder badger]

Hey now when it comes to Black Mage Yoshida knows what he's doing

For someone who doesn't like dark evil themes like necromancy he sure is in love with black magic

[floral aurora]

Idk he had that reaper shirt on xD

[cinder badger]

The power of Destruction at his fingertips

[woven escarp]

no, like, necromancy is a cultural thing

desecrating the dead is insanely taboo in the east

you can't even display animated skeletons in china

[cinder badger]

Is it neighborhood currently going through it kind of satanic phase?

You know upside down five pointed stars and such

[woven escarp]

🤔

[floral aurora]

Is resident evil series banned in China?

[cinder badger]

It's more of a theme been an actual worship... but I was reading about it somewhere when looking up neighborhood

[woven escarp]

I don't know if RE is banned in china, but it might be

[cinder badger]

Like it's usually punk rock heavy metal kind of stuff

[woven escarp]

since I think blizzard has to make custom undead models for wow where there are no exposed bones

🤔

[cinder badger]

If the Chinese version of World of Warcraft can't even help skeletons I highly doubt China would allow a Resident Evil to even exist

[gaunt star]

Yet jiangshi exist

[woven escarp]

jiangshi are ghosts though

[gaunt star]

Fuck

[cinder badger]

I can't find squonk

[gaunt star]

Anyhow i only know RE2 is banned at china. Idk if its the entire franchise

[floral aurora]

Damn

Imagine if we got a modern Silent Hill lol

[woven escarp]

also, fun fact about RE, you know why they changed the names of all the guns?

[gaunt star]

Because...

[woven escarp]

🤔

[floral aurora]

[cinder badger]

I like the shopkeeper from Resident Evil 4

[gaunt star]

Covid mutated and turn people into zombies

[cinder badger]

Got some good things on sale stranger

[floral aurora]

[woven escarp]

if covid taught us anything it's that we now know that every zombie movie is accurate

and most people will just throw themselves into the zombies asking to be eaten

"this is clearly a hoax" being torn apart by the walking dead

[gaunt star]

Lmfao totally

Unless its gamers. We just finish them all off /s

[woven escarp]

shoot them in the knees and then finish them off at close range

although that shit only works in video games because shooting the knees is hard as fuck lmao

[maiden lodge]

Video games has taught me that people will go out 'prepared' and go 'I have trained my whole life for this' and then when push comes to shove go 'What the fuck, shooting the brain doesn't help, fuckin noob', hit no targets, then brag to their friends later about their K/D/A ratio being amazing.

Sees someone using an effective tactic and weapon
'wtf Flamethrowers are for noobs'

[gaunt star]

Lmao

Well irl u have neither the power of god or anime by ur side

[cinder badger]

I think I hate streamers more than casuals.

Like sometimes it's fun to watch streamers who have meltdowns when something goes wrong in a game but then when I see them literally destroy their equipment without a second thought....

I'm somebody who doesn't really have a lot of money so I couldn't afford to break my stuff like that no matter how mad I get. lol

How many places are the tower set in

I'm in the dravanian forelands right now and I see one and I know there's the one you see from the msq

[maiden lodge]

Yanxia, Drav FL, S. Than, Outer LN, The Lochs

[cinder badger]

Shame we can't just go there and blow them up

[placid sail]

wtf kinda streamers do you watch

[cinder badger]

I'm not saying all of them do it I just like watching the ones who rage

[vernal haven]

You are seeking out what you hate

[cinder badger]

Well like I said it's fun to watch them explode but when they start destroying equipment I can't help but shake my head

Like Dellor

I used to watch him rage on apex Legends quite often and he would pick up his keyboard and literally snap it over his leg

Right in half

[vernal haven]

That sounds like stage rage tbh

[cinder badger]

Still it's a waste of perfectly good equipment I don't care how much money you make streaming

[vernal haven]

I mean if it's part of their identity that they get mad it likely helps their image and makes them make that money ez clap

[woven escarp]

🤔

[cinder badger]

It's worse if it's just for show because think of the money it takes to make all that equipment and you're just destroying it

[woven escarp]

that shit is always someone who's getting paid to chimp out

[vernal haven]

I mean ultimately you seek out those people so it obviously works in drawing in viewers

[gaunt star]

Imagine watching Tate

[cinder badger]

I usually just catch them on compilation videos

You know like top list of the downright worst and such

[languid breach]

Is Tate bad? I only know that they're like a world first raider

[cinder badger]

When it comes to Apex I like watching ragtag because he's genuinely a cool guy and admits that he's gutter teir

He's just the best of the gutter teir

[tropic frigate]

tate got a lot worse basically than i actually knew the entire time

[languid breach]

F

[cinder badger]

Occasionally ragtagg will get a teammate who just goes ape shitt on him. Like the guy who got pissed off at him for some reason or another and just kept shooting at him and then after they get into a fight he complains that he didn't have any bullets

[languid breach]

Lmao

Is friendly fire a thing in apex?

[cinder badger]

"IMAGINE IF I HAD BULLETZ!!!"

No it's not but it didn't stop that guy from Rage shooting at ragtag

[gaunt star]

Tate is abusive and several other stuff coming to light

[languid breach]

F

[cinder badger]

You can't hurt your teammates with bullets but I don't think bullets can pass through your teammates so if somebody body blocks you on your team you won't be hitting your target

[languid breach]

Oh cool

I have awful peripheral vision and reaction time, so I suck ass at shooters

[cinder badger]

If I can recall correctly the team mate died early and rag accidentally looted his box so when they were able to respond him he started raging because rag took stuff out of his box. And he was trying to communicate with the guy and figure out what it was he looted by accident so he could give it back to him but all that guy would do was yell and complain at him and didn't even bother to communicate.

[languid breach]

This is why I hate PvP games. It just brings out the salt in everyone.

[woven escarp]

because pvp works when everyone is on the same wavelength

it's a problem when some people take it more or less seriously than the rest

[cinder badger]

Rag is no super casual he does try to play to win but he isn't going to take it so seriously that he starts berating people over little things.

But in PvP it takes a real player to admit your limitations and he literally refers to himself as "the best gutter teir" player

[woven escarp]

I'm shit at everything 😔

but I still get salted when I'm losing and it isn't even fun

[languid breach]

I'm super casual in the only PvP game I play, LoR, like I'll surrender if I'm not having fun anymore casual.

Thankfully it's 1v1 only

[cinder badger]

Is that Legends of runeterra

[languid breach]

Yep

[woeful dagger]

Yoshi-P

is online on Balmung

[cinder badger]

I played that on betta butt I haven't touched it since

[cinder badger]

Wait no are you serious where

[languid breach]

Lmao

[woeful dagger]

Limsa

[cinder badger]

Where is he you're not shiting me are you

[woeful dagger]

i just screenshotted it lol

[languid breach]

I feel bad for him. He can't play his own game without being swarmed by people.

[woeful dagger]

he's a level 2 arcanist lalafell

i don't think he's here to play

[tropic frigate]

is that his username? i thought it was something else

[woeful dagger]

it's something else on JP server

[cinder badger]

I can't even see him

[onyx sundial]

Yoship

Riding that rp tag

A true balmung tourist

[woeful dagger]

You need to walk right up to the pedestal

[woven escarp]

🤔

what pedestal?

[cinder badger]

How do we actually know that's him and not just somebody using the name

[gaunt star]

YoshiP has a "real" character he plays on

iirc it's an au ra

[woeful dagger]

yeah on JP server

[gaunt star]

but nobody knows what its name is

[woeful dagger]

he's always been a Lalafell

[unreal wadi]

3 more months

of pain & agony

[cinder badger]

No he's always played a lalafell

[unreal wadi]

until we got more info

[cinder badger]

Damn it I think he left

Maybe he's testing out data center travel lol

Oh there's that one guy who's informing everybody that it's fake.

I saw that coming

[pulsar yacht]

Actual yoshi p is named something like shampo (when in the public character)

[signal solar]

yoship sampo

thats his char

[pulsar yacht]

He should have judge (gm) gear on if not doing content

[signal solar]

thats the templar gear from dzemael, possibly renamed

[cinder badger]

@pulsar yacht "but that is not his way" lol

[signal solar]

he has his own black mage glamour

[cinder badger]

You guys do realize that Naoki Yoshida it's probably the biggest troll in Final Fantasy 14

[signal solar]

yeah

he is

[cinder badger]

If he came in in GM gear or was a really high level or use his original character name it would make it more obvious

But if he just comes in as a low-level character with his name in all caps it'll make people think "is this real or fake?"

[signal solar]

you cant make your name all caps

[cinder badger]

What's the weather it really is him or not will never know

[onyx sundial]

Wait how can it be fake

[signal solar]

the game will not allow it

[onyx sundial]

When your name is all caps

[cinder badger]

That's true didn't think of that

Still there are people in limsa right now still not convinced it's him

[woeful dagger]

those people also have trouble doing normal Eden

[willow pivot]

there once was an anniversary event with 3 yoshidas

[gaunt star]

And they have trouble figuring out what Pyretic does

[woeful dagger]

i'm playing songs for Yoshi-P i hope he notices me

[woeful dagger]

I had to raid lead normal Furor and we wiped like 4 times it was brutal

[cinder badger]

Someone is saying they're using a third-party tool to exploit their name and that it's nothing new

Now apparently there's a GM involved

[vale dome]

So crazy theory I have for the DPS job, apparently Yoshida brought up somewhere that "Dragoon is in a unique position" or something like that and people are thinking that means the job will use maiming gear; what if he said that because when 6.0 launches, Dragoon will be the only job with it own gear as the new job shares Scouting with NIN?

Also in Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag, one of the main plot points in the game involves a Sage, which also happens to be the name of the new healing job; and who did we play as in AC4? A Pirate, whats another name associated with a Pirate? Corsair.

[rain onyx]

They already confirmed the new DPS job uses Maiming

[vale dome]

That last one was a joke but I mean, Sam Raimi was a reach but was confirmed as the hint for SAM

[vale dome]

Sauce?

[rain onyx]

#translations-and-liveletters message

[cinder badger]

Honestly if it really was Yoshida I'm actually ashamed for our server more than ever

They're acting like absolute lunatics arguing the legitimacy

Not just our server North America in general

[vale dome]

That doesn't really say it will use maiming gear, it just says "DRG is currently at a special position", it could just be a red herring to throw people off.

[gaunt star]

NA people can't read PF's so at this point I just accept it

[signal solar]

possibly a different quote from that

[maiden lodge]

It doesn't say 'is in a special position' it's using DRG gear to say that introducing a new melee job is easy.

'DRG gear exists, so that made the decision easier.'

[cinder badger]

That's literally the first line of the translation

Since DRG is currently at a special position, if we're only talking about slots it was natural we add it there.

Honestly it seems like a weird translation to me I know next to no Japanese so I can't say for certain what he meant. But people seem to have their own interpretations

The way I look at it is if they're mentioning adding it there while mentioning Dragoon and gear slots then it's probably going to use the same gear slots as Dragoon

[vale dome]

Yeah, that statement is pretty vague, it doesn't say anywhere that it'll using maiming gear, it just says that DRG was the reason (or something close to it) they chose to make its a melee DPS over say a range or magic DPS.

[cinder badger]

But they're talking about gear slots

[vale dome]

It could just mean that it won't have an offhand.

[open verge]

The job won’t have an offhand

[cinder badger]

But none of them do

Name one melee DPS that uses an offhand

And don't say ninja because it still counts as one weapon in the slot

[open verge]

Name one job besides paladin that uses an offhand

They went out of their way to never give BLM and WHM none anymore

[cinder badger]

Technically a Black Mage and White Mage can use a shield but since stave's are the endgame nobody uses them

[vale dome]

Doesn't scholar use shields early on?

[cinder badger]

But that's aside from the point which I see yours@open verge

[vernal haven]

BLM and whm can only use 1h and shield if they like griefing above level 50

Think they regret making that a thing

[cinder badger]

@vernal haven that's kind of what I just said staves and canes became the end the game

@vernal haven it wasn't them who made it was the original Developers

[vale dome]

Yeah, that was a really weird choice, probably a hold over from 1.0 I'd guess.

[vernal haven]

I mean true but they could have yeeted it with 2.0 if they really wanted

[woven escarp]

they had shields for like, a minute after level 50

[cinder badger]

And then realize that they were Mages and didn't get hit all that often

[woven escarp]

staves were always an option but since they had better stats taking up both the main and offhand slot they just got rid of shields

[subtle pasture]

Yeah the last scepters were from Leviathan EX

[woeful dagger]

WHM/BLM being able to use Shields was so they were more 'durable' in solo content. But that became irrelevant once ARR nerfed the damage enemies dealt in the open world by-and-large.

[ionic flicker]

Can someone explains to me what weakened Hydaelyn very much? I always found it weird how she was very active in ARR and then complete silence ( Except in HW where she was silent most of the time but still made an activity now and then )

[woeful dagger]

She was already incredibly weak in ARR

[onyx sundial]

The ultima attack from lahabrea

[woeful dagger]

Then Praetorium happened and snapped what strength she had left.

[ionic flicker]

Was Ultima spell really that powerful on her?

[onyx sundial]

She protected you to survuve that attack

Idk but it is what it is

Such devastation

This was not my intention

[ionic flicker]

Like it didn't feel like a calamity level of destruction

[woeful dagger]

She had to use her entire last remnant of power to prevent it from vaporizing not just you, but basically that entire area of the world.

[onyx sundial]

Well you did see what it did to the praetorium

[ionic flicker]

Wait so Ultima was meant to destroy Eorzea?

[woeful dagger]

Lahabrea was going to use it to do that yes

It was built by Gaius to hunt down Primals but he was tricked by Lahabrea.

[ionic flicker]

But prae was just one place of too mant

So destroying Eorzea in a single spell

Yeah that sounds like a calamity level

But shouldn't she still be like half powerful? Only seven rejoinings happened. There are still like 6 or 7 more

[woeful dagger]

Her power isn't linked to the # of Shards. She's a Primal herself and doesn't have any Tempered so there isn't any Aether flowing inwards into her to give her power back once she has used it. At least, that's my understanding.

[ionic flicker]

Mhm makes sense

So she is very weak primal which the ascians can kill her outright but need her for rejoinings ( That would never happen anymore )

[next quarry]

Ultima was just a spell lahabrea used to try and kill the WoL

[ionic flicker]

Is my understanding correct?

[woeful dagger]

Ascians don't necessarily want to kill Hydaelyn so much as just restore Zodiark and hope Zodiark likewise restores the world to what it once was (unsundered souls).

Killing her is probably what they'd do, but you could also imprison her or convert her as well, since she's just a Primal.

[ionic flicker]

So it's as i said

[serene crest]

She was very powerful when she was first summoned. She splintered Zodiark and the rest of the world with it. But as time has gone on, she has grown weaker and weaker. Our light crystals? They’re really small compared to what she used to produce. Matoya found a spent version of a previous WoLs light crystal and it’s huge.

[ionic flicker]

Speaking of unsundered souls. Emet and Elidibus died on the first. Will they get reincarated only on the first?

[woeful dagger]

We used White Auracite so they are dead-dead.

[ionic flicker]

So no reincarnation

[woeful dagger]

White Auracite captures their souls so they cannot return to their plane, effectively killing them.

[ionic flicker]

Poor boys

[serene crest]

Her crystal eye is a spent light crystal.

[ionic flicker]

Does that mean WoL crystals will be spent one day?

[next quarry]

They can be

[serene crest]

Ours fit in our palms. That is bigger than most people’s heads.

[ionic flicker]

Becsuse the topic on our crystals wasn't brought on again ever

[next quarry]

Look at the crystals in the ShB role quests

[serene crest]

And, yeah, they can be drained. Ours haven’t yet. Also we have six. Most get only one.

[gaunt star]

The explanation we were given on how white auracite works says that we "unmake" the ascians we kill that way, aka no chance of ever coming back, but they've also dropped hints that they returned to the lifestream anyway so who knows

[ionic flicker]

I always thought the ones in ShB role quests because Hydaelyn reabsorbed them and not naturally spent

[next quarry]

ffs it's just like the Ff1 orbs of light

[gaunt star]

ofc we didn't actually use the auracite correctly for genocidal sad dad

[woeful dagger]

Well we are going to fight Lahabrea again so it's whatever lol

[gaunt star]

we just stabbed him with it then yeeted an axe through his chest

[woeful dagger]

Also we have a member of the Convocation on our side now so...

[next quarry]

We don't know yet about pandemonium

[ionic flicker]

Lets forget that member

[next quarry]

I assume it's based on his lab

[ionic flicker]

I don't want a revisit to Eden story ever again

[woeful dagger]

i thought the sismance was cute

[next quarry]

Eden story was alright

Brought closure to 2 ascians

Other than that, Omega was better imo

[ionic flicker]

Eden story started greatly but the last part...

[next quarry]

Maybe it's because I like Alpha

[ionic flicker]

I'm greatly disappointed by how they handled the third part

Felt like fanfiction

[next quarry]

I'm dissapointed in E9

[woeful dagger]

The problem with the Eden story is the fact they'll never use Gaia again even though we have an unsundered Ascian on our side lol

[gaunt star]

Omega storyline on the other hand was kinda backloaded

[ionic flicker]

She isn't unsundered

[next quarry]

FF8 music on a fight from FF3

[ionic flicker]

Omega story was cool ngl

[next quarry]

Omega story had a lot going for it, especially since middy was involved

[woeful dagger]

She's part of the Convocation, which is the original unsundered that decided on the best plan of action during the Final Days.

[ionic flicker]

Hoping for the Cid and the gang to return as 8-players raid main casts instead of teenagers

[gaunt star]

You don't even really advance the plot at all in sigmascape except Nero drinking salty coffee and winning one battle in a huge bracket

[next quarry]

Sigmascape was just there for pure fanservice

they fucking give us Alte Roite as a fight in delta

[gaunt star]

Most of the convocation were sundered though

[next quarry]

I hate those enemies in V

[gaunt star]

All except Lahabread, Emet, and Elidibus

[ionic flicker]

Only three are unsundered. Two are died and question mark on Lahabrea

[glass dagger]

The bread is dead

[woeful dagger]

the Convocation was formed before the Sundering even happened

[cinder badger]

@glass dagger unless they say otherwise

[ionic flicker]

Honestly i think lahabrea became sundered after ARR events

That's why he will return

[next quarry]

How can you be sundered after that

[glass dagger]

Until then, he is dead. Elidibus and Emet even said it.

[ionic flicker]

Cause Hydaelyn dealt the attack on him by the end of Prae?

It felt really like that

[gaunt star]

the convocation weren't sundered when they were the convoction

But Gaia being unsundered now because she used to be a member isn't accurate

[cinder badger]

LaHEE is a lot of things. Predictable is not one of those things

[ionic flicker]

Seeing primals not releasing the aether they absorbed. I highly doubt his soul escaped Thordan after his death

[teal geyser]

But that's not when he died?

[ionic flicker]

Plus Elidibus and Emet would know then

[teal geyser]

Also yes

[unborn lantern]

I was wondering around coerthas west with my mount flying

and I happen to see this guy about to fall

to his death

[ionic flicker]

Just a defeat. Not killing

[teal geyser]

Dw he's been hanging on for some years now

[glass dagger]

there's always one lol

[unborn lantern]

[next quarry]

It's Valentine's, he got left hanging

[teal geyser]

Right so....you're cancelling out your own theory

[ionic flicker]

How cancelling? Getting sundered is a killing now?

[glass dagger]

Well yes, but actually no.

But Bread wasn't sundered?

[gaunt star]

correct

Lahabrea, Emet Selch, and Elidibus escaped the sundering somehow

I expect we'll learn exactly how in EW

[teal geyser]

I mean the problem is like, Emet seems to have implied that the act of sundering literally made people forget a lot of things so I feel like if Lahabrea was sundered then he'd have forgotten a lot of stuff that happened before