retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[wary perch]

The X shape is just visual

Pretty sure it's a circle Aoe in the sage video

[subtle pasture]

cries in overpower

[rain onyx]

Yeah there was stuff between the x points to imply a circle

[subtle pasture]

yeah, I misread that fire as boxes and then some smoke effects

[fallen girder]

Imagine tho

[subtle pasture]

like how a lot of boss cleaves you can see where the hitbox actually ends, then the smoke continues on

[fallen girder]

X shape with overlapping hitboxes in tge middle

[subtle pasture]

lookin' at you, flare breath

[fallen girder]

Lemme hit for 2x140%

[subtle pasture]

but they don't do that with player aoes-- unless,

[wary perch]

lol

[zealous epoch]

Art o war new animation: twirl around and whack all enemies with your codex.

[subtle pasture]

[fallen girder]

More like 2x70 in that case

[final isle]

grab the fairy and smack her into the ground for additional dmg

[zealous epoch]

Choking her too?

[subtle pasture]

ah, but I forgot the most important part of that aoe,

it's instant

..prob is an oGCD then

[zealous epoch]

Wait till all scholars get banned by Fairy Protection Organisations

[final isle]

instants aren't necessarily oGCDs

ground slap is an instant aoe too, but it's not an oGCD

[subtle pasture]

of course, would be nice for Sage's aoe spell to be instant and ranged

[zealous epoch]

Looks like it from the vid

[final isle]

well it'd make it "unique", since we already have ranged cast, centered cast, centered instant, so ranged instant kinda makes sense

[fallen girder]

Hm

Sch makes more sense cuz its such a small aoe

And holy has stun

[subtle pasture]

though, isn't the Sage aoe quite a bit bigger than AoW/Holy/Grav

[fallen girder]

Isnt holy massive already

[pulsar yacht]

I have a weird feeling sch will be the shield whm (upgrade AoW to bootleg holy) and sage will be ast (gravity clone as ranged aoe)

[fallen girder]

!spell holy

[lusty shadow]

**Holy** : lvl 45 WHM (600 MP) (2.5 second cooldown)(2.5 second base cast time)

Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 140 to all nearby enemies.
Additional Effect: Stun
Duration: 4s

Powered by XIVAPI

[final isle]

could require ressource to increase size or whatever, we don't really know all that much the teaser was fucking nothing tbh

[fallen girder]

Oh doesnt say

[pulsar yacht]

the range is like 15 meters

or something silly

[zealous epoch]

Scholar: i have a fairy, Sage: i have flying needles. Meanwhile at whm and ast corners

[pulsar yacht]

Radius 8y

[fallen girder]

Holy is 8y

[subtle pasture]

8y, 5y, 5y, ah nvm then

sure, give sage a ranged 8y

[fallen girder]

Id dig it

Can't wait for sch but good

Imagine having ogcd shields

[zealous epoch]

!action art of war

[lusty shadow]

**Art of War** : lvl 46 SCH (600 MP) (2.5 second cooldown)(Instant cast time)

Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 160 to all nearby enemies.

Powered by XIVAPI

[subtle pasture]

Seraph

[fallen girder]

Pets in xiv

Enjoy waiting 17 seconds for the shield to come out

[subtle pasture]

--SCH 80+ should give a skill in Dissipation, maybe a pure bubble aoe

a shake it off while the buff is up, or such

[wary perch]

I feel like sage will still lose out to sch because of farie auto heal

[fallen girder]

Watch embrace get nerfed

Again again

[zealous epoch]

Noooo

😫

[subtle pasture]

It's gonna be WHM and, maybe SGE, as the pure healers of their roles, then SCH and AST as the utility?

[wind bough]

No

[zealous epoch]

Whm and ast pure

[wind bough]

WHM and AST: "pure" healers
SCH and Sage: barrier healers

[subtle pasture]

no like, WHM pure pure and Sage pure barrier

AST utility pure, sch utility barrier

[pulsar yacht]

pure healers is bad translation for regen focused healing

[wet crown]

Dissipation is an absolute garbage skill

[wary perch]

Unless sage has some ability to boost party dps, it will lose out to sch and ast

[fallen girder]

🧚

[wind bough]

We don't know that it's going to be regen focused.

I wouldn't call WHM regen focused.

[zealous epoch]

Sage barrier is cool, very futuristic

[wet crown]

In fact, the skill should just trade fairy gauge for aetherflow

[wind bough]

You don't cast regen if you can help it.

[fallen girder]

Sage has a personal dps mechanic doesnr it

[zealous epoch]

Yes, laser beams

[wind bough]

You don't cast SCH shields if you can help it either but maybe they'll incentivise it more if they're gonna design fights where shields are required to live now

[fallen girder]

Didnt we think the same for healing in general being needed more for shb

[wind bough]

which is what I assume based on them doing this semi-split role thing

[zealous epoch]

Or make Succor instant

One can wish

[wind bough]

yeah but maybe this time tho 😔

[subtle pasture]

when they rework catalyze for balancing but HoT math still trumps it

[wary perch]

Isn't shield always need for progress run of savage?

[gaunt star]

Watch them introduce 2 new gods in 6.0 🙄

[subtle pasture]

but y'all get the gist I was getting at,

[soft gyro]

shield is needed so you don't die when taking too much damage

[subtle pasture]

WHM dps-pure, Sage dps-barrier, AST utility-pure, SCH utility-barrier

etc, etc

[pulsar yacht]

yeah altough in hindsight for most content it's more of the same (heavy attack > personal mechanic > tankbuster > heavy attack)

[final isle]

it's rarely needed currently, as long as people coordinate damage mitigation skills like addle, ranged phys 10% and tank stuff

[gaunt star]

“You’ve heard of hydaelyn and zodiark..... get ready for these 2 new ones”

[final isle]

and healer stuff themselves like sacred soil/wings etc

[zealous epoch]

Shield is needed for mmm stupidity like that blm who stand on fire

[wary perch]

You mean for BLM to stand in their circle

[zealous epoch]

Shrugs

[subtle pasture]

for barriers to consistently be a thing you'd need damage to be high enough to require 'em,

or high damage events close enough that hots don't cut it,

--maybe the rework to healer core means such for Panda Sav

buuut eexpected the same out of Eden and not so much

[gaunt star]

Sage is just shield spam with 0 cool down 😩

[zealous epoch]

Shield and dps

[subtle pasture]

I'd love a power word: shield in 14

a spell that's 0 healing, just a shield

[final isle]

benison

also tbn

[zealous epoch]

Oh... sage laser beam might heals for x% of dmd done

[subtle pasture]

yeah, but those're CD's,

[zealous epoch]

To the lowest hp

[subtle pasture]

deffo in that vein, though

[final isle]

well spammable would be on the GCD

[subtle pasture]

maybe it'll be Sage's Regen/Asp. Benefic equivalent

very likely to be, I suppose

[final isle]

and GCD heals are just not really a thing currently, maybe if they rework the raiding but people said they were gonna make fights require more GCD heals in ShB and they kinda didn't do shit

[zealous epoch]

It’s time to give us smart heal

[subtle pasture]

Excog, but like,

more abilities like Excog plz

[wet crown]

shields that heal when they break

[subtle pasture]

Applies a shield of X potency, when this shield is broken or expires, heals X potency

yeah, totally.

[zealous epoch]

Can’t wait to lvl my sage

[subtle pasture]

babby bubble excog

[wet crown]

first healer for me to level to 80 is SCH because I will play SMN

[final isle]

I wonder if dungeons are faster than Bozja for leveling

[subtle pasture]

gotta get them healer AND magic dps RQ's

[final isle]

I had everything capped before Bozja released so not sure how fast it is

[wet crown]

Bozja is quite nice for leveling

[gaunt star]

No it’s not faster

[subtle pasture]

it's decent, but it vs queue times vs trusts

[wet crown]

No worries about gear, immidiately at 80

[zealous epoch]

Ah yes same, i always lvl sch/smn first because share gears

[wet crown]

it's just more fun

[zealous epoch]

I have rdm, blm, whm, ast

[final isle]

guess it'll depend on queues but I assume healer queues won't be too bad... then again I vaguely remember tank queues being a bit shit last expansion due to all the GNBs

[gaunt star]

I started with summoner got to 50 and switched to dancer never touched it since

[subtle pasture]

level Sage in queues, level Reaper in Bozja

EZ

[wet crown]

You definitely did not switch to dancer at 50

[zealous epoch]

Ew bozja

[wet crown]

DNC unlocks at 60

[zealous epoch]

So dread

[gaunt star]

Melee class is Onion Knight to make Sage and Onion omg 😩

[wet crown]

You know what.

[final isle]

I assume queues for Reaper won't be that bad though, DNC queues weren't awful at launch

[wet crown]

I wouldn't might Onion

maiming would fit the armor style well enough

[zealous epoch]

Why they call it onion?

[final isle]

anyway I'll probably lvl Sage first, unless the class reveal has some more interesting things

[wet crown]

B-because

[gaunt star]

Then next expansion after Endwalker would have classes called salt and pepper

[wet crown]

urgh

[final isle]

maybe it'll be MNK first if the rework looks fun

[wet crown]

reasons

Yes.

[gaunt star]

We really are living in the classes named after seasonings

😩✌️

[subtle pasture]

I remember melting my face on DNC in HoH at launch

good times

[zealous epoch]

We need thyme and rosemary to join

[wet crown]

aren't dungeons faster?

oh well

[final isle]

I didn't mind HoH too much cause I literally never did HoH before DNC released other than a single solo run to unlock 21-30

[subtle pasture]

probably, 70+ also gets pixie dailies too

[gaunt star]

Thyme (Time) Mage omg

[subtle pasture]

those're some insane xp gains on a BTQ

[wet crown]

dungeons will be the go to for Sage and the other job though

Bozja is slower

even if more fun

[final isle]

beast daillies are good but I'm generally done with them on the first day for the first class cause I'll get these 10 levels right away

[wet crown]

I'll always play through an expansion as SMN, then level new stuff plus DRK

[subtle pasture]

I'd probably prefer Bozja just bc dungeon grind, deep and otherwise, is just, exhausting to me

[final isle]

the fun part about doing dungeons at new expansion launch is I do dungeons I haven't done in 2years

[gaunt star]

Aren’t they forcing everyone to do Bozja for the relic once 6.0 launches

[subtle pasture]

but I can handle eureka and bozja, for some reason

[final isle]

like all these ShB leveling dungeons I haven't touched since I finished all my stuff

[wet crown]

I don't like Malica's Well or the Ronkan ruins

They just don't do it for me

[subtle pasture]

I'm am beyond fucking sick of seeing Philia and Aenc Thon

Eros is almost there too

[final isle]

I liked the ronkan ruins a lot, music is great, and it looks cool

[wet crown]

Funny. They're also the ones I saw most but I am so used to them by now

[final isle]

malika was meh

I've ran them a shit ton of times though

because I wanted to max trusts and I did, then they halved the requirements a few weeks later

[wet crown]

Ahh, I guess it's because
By the time I get to them, the Scaeven gear is starting to fall off

[subtle pasture]

See I love Malikah's bosses, and then Gulg is just the home stretch which makes it a bit more bearable

[final isle]

spent way too fucking long maxing these trusts

[wet crown]

I maxed almost all of them on Don Mheg and Holminster Switch

[wind bough]

[wet crown]

over long periods of time ofc

[subtle pasture]

I think my highest is Thancred at 74

[final isle]

I just leveled all my stuff to max them efficiently but that meant running trust dungeons a bunch when I could have ran with real players

[wet crown]

They actually level rather fast when you do the highest available dungeon for them

2 or 3 runs max to level up

[final isle]

although I distinctly remember running into SEVERAL parties with players that were slower than fucking trusts

[subtle pasture]

but all I've levelled lately is PLD (76) and DRK (73) in Bozja

even though tank queues are lol

[wet crown]

ikr

[subtle pasture]

....I told myself I'd level DRK in Bozja, for some reason

[wet crown]

I also got PLD to 80 in Bozja

[final isle]

tanks in bozja are nice since you get easy full credit with threat modifiers

[subtle pasture]

mind, I told myself I'd level DRK in BSF before it launched, but my DRK was 66

[wet crown]

I think I got 3 jobs to 80 with Bozja so far. And I'm gonna get BRD and MNK trough there, too

[subtle pasture]

I recently got it to 71 while spamming VA

[final isle]

but I generally max all my characters in the first month or so, so anything they add later is just not useful for me until the expansion after

[subtle pasture]

I had Living Memory before Eden, that was, about it

that is, Role Quests finished

[wet crown]

this is the first time I'll have all jobs at max

[subtle pasture]

I suppose my goal again will be to finish the new role quest finale before Pandaemonium

this time I got to level a separate melee dps, lol

[wet crown]

yeah if 5.2 taught us anything...

do the final role quests ASAP

extra, spicy lore

Imagine doing 5.2 without Cylva's cutscene

just...

no

[subtle pasture]

SCH/SMN > DNC > GNB, done

[wet crown]

what did they say what the 5 role quests will be?

I kinda spaced out during that moment of the stream

[subtle pasture]

magical dps, melee dps, phys ranged dps, healer, tank

[wet crown]

will melee and ranged physical ....

yh

[subtle pasture]

so physical is split up now

[wet crown]

that's fine

oh wait it's not

1 more job to get to 90 ASAP

[subtle pasture]

I used DNC for it in ShB, this time I'll prob do DNC and MNK

or DNC and RPR

or DNC and NCR

or DNC and

[wet crown]

SMN/SCH, DRK, MCH and...SAM, I guess

unless the new DPS is fun

[subtle pasture]

I realize this qualifies as a pun

ah yes, the new job, the

I started ShB as a sch main and eventually settled back to WHM, guess for efficiency sake I should still start with SCH for role quests

depends how its END tweaking goes, really

[cinder badger]

1-5 scale how would you rate the difficulty of Monk

[subtle pasture]

at max level? a 2-2.5

RoF/Med/PB make a nice clean burst window and stance flow is as simple and clean as always

mostly comes with trying to hit all this gd positionals

[cinder badger]

I'm trying to learn Monk on controller and it's driving me insane

[pulsar yacht]

sounds about right although monk is on my shit list since did monastery day 0 and it felt like shit dps wise (at tgc's lack of positionals with me doing a positional reduction based rotation)

[final isle]

MNK was really good back in monastery though

[winged thorn]

I don't think Yoshi-P's shirt means Templar.

Mostly because he's already done the "movie director's name is literally the job" tease before, and while I haven't been a part of the FFXIV community nearly as long as most of y'all, I think that Yoshi-P isn't the type to use the same trick twice.

[final isle]

and any boss with a full circle always gets full positional bonuses, not no positionals

[subtle pasture]

What was the DNC or GNB hint again

wasn't GNB Agent 007

[final isle]

like potd/eureka/bozjan mobs and so on

[cinder badger]

Setting monks abilities on the crossbar it hardly takes up 1 1/2 sets

[subtle pasture]

yeah, pretty much

it's not a lot of buttons

[cinder badger]

Still I'm trying to find a good setup

It's making me miss my keyboard and mouse lol

[frank raptor]

Idk about monk but so far i have 8 job that i set at crosshotbar and have no problem with it

I need to utilize expanded and x cross hotbar though

[cinder badger]

I was using xwhb just to monitor important CDs

[open verge]

None

Was no job hint for dnc and gnb

Gnb job hint was just thancred having a gunblade in the trailer lol

The hints for shb were bugs bunny racing and some lionheart shirt for Roth

[cinder badger]

That's because he used his shirt hint for bunnies

Seriously though the Sam Raimi thing he used one time and everybody automatically expects that to be his tried-and-true method

[open verge]

I mean

[cinder badger]

Even though the hint he dropped before shadowbringers was a Bugs Bunny race car shirt

"Bunny race"

[open verge]

Viera was leaked to fuck anyway

[cinder badger]

And then there was Red Mage "scarlet witch"

[open verge]

Look at the shirt he wore

[gaunt star]

Reaper?

[open verge]

The shirt is not has obvious has scarlet witch lol

Except for the fact that it’s most likely a scythe user

[cinder badger]

@open verge hey tell me how to set monk abilities on the crossbar what should I put on my auxiliary?

[open verge]

Crossbar?

[gaunt star]

Red Mage?

[subtle pasture]

I coulda swore he wore a James Bond shirt as a GNB hint

[open verge]

I don’t use that shit

Mch

[cinder badger]

@open verge you say it was obvious but people still thought it was dancer

[open verge]

???

[subtle pasture]

Oh was that back in HW, time is an illusion

[open verge]

For scarlet witch??

[gaunt star]

maybe its an original job?

[open verge]

Everyone knew it was red mage instantly

[subtle pasture]

Wydm, isn’t red mage a dancer? /s

[autumn heron]

Scarlet Witch was the most obvious one

[gaunt star]

people were yelling Red Mage.

[open verge]

Only time people thought dancer was comfirmed was the expansion reveal

[cinder badger]

@open verge I can't believe anything you say if your name is a lie

[open verge]

Why would I use crossbar

I play on kbm

[autumn heron]

Scarlet = Red

[cinder badger]

@open verge I'm forced to play on crossbar right now I don't have my keyboard and mouse and I'm playing on PlayStation

[autumn heron]

Witch = Mage

It was obvious

[open verge]

Yea incredibly obvious

[subtle pasture]

Wanda, the sword becomes a wand

Checkmate.

[gaunt star]

people were like "some sort of gunblade job, Dancer Just because it felt logical, and a healer "Chemist.""

[random ravine]

we gonna get necrowtich

[open verge]

No

People were like dancer and gunblade because it literally was leaked

[autumn heron]

We knew well ahead of time yea

[open verge]

We knew we were getting a gunblade and dancer long before the fanfest

[gaunt star]

I remember it being leaked yeah, but people were like "Take it with a grain of salt."

[autumn heron]

Everything that was added was hard leaked on 4chan

[open verge]

No

It was confirmed because of omega

Omega bosses got leaked along with dancer ,gnb,viera and hroth

[gaunt star]

Anyways

[autumn heron]

then every thing in the leak was real

[open verge]

Yeeeep

Glad we don’t have those leaks anymore

Fuck blu fever he’s a bitch

Oh he leaked blue mage as well

[gaunt star]

Reaper, Necromancer... Scythe

[wet crown]

necromancer won't happen

this only comes from people with no grasp on the story

[autumn heron]

It cant be nectomancer

[subtle pasture]

He spoiled Tsukuyomi’s narrative so yeah I hate the guy too

[autumn heron]

They literally said necromancer multiple times during the event

They wouldnt do that if it was right

[subtle pasture]

Went to story speculation threads to drop that twist, like ???—anyways,

[gaunt star]

I also don't think necromancer.

[open verge]

Necromancer is a good way to have a job not release in China and maybe korea

[autumn heron]

Thats also true

[gaunt star]

Reaper seems obvious with the Scythe and all but I just dunno how it would work as a Melee DPS>

[autumn heron]

Zombies are illegal to depict in china

In their entirety

[wet crown]

it would reap and sow

[subtle pasture]

Necro, as a necro, just wouldn’t translate well to a melee dps

[wet crown]

and reap and tear

[subtle pasture]

Let alone a maiming dps

[open verge]

I can see them maybe using puppets?

[gaunt star]

Course it might not even be anything to do with a Scythe?

[open verge]

Idk what a reaper would look like

[wet crown]

then it'd just be puppeteer

don't half-ass jobs

👏

[gaunt star]

Might be what the Scythe does, reap souls and stuff. So undead job?

[subtle pasture]

It’s DRG but more full body spins

[open verge]

I still stand by the opinion that no one will get the job name correct

[autumn heron]

Cant be undead anything

Again

China

[cinder badger]

Well I mean one of the bosses in Heroes gauntlet is a necromancer and it's summon zombies.

Not saying that the job will be Necromancer the point I was making is it's a bit too late to worry about your Chinese and Korean player base

[open verge]

Why would our wol be using undead

[wet crown]

No, it can't be undead anything BECAUSE LORE

[subtle pasture]

I’m reminded of Flick Reaper from .hack//GU

[gaunt star]

There was a besearker and necromancer.

[cinder badger]

@open verge why would I Warrior of light be using Darkness

[wet crown]

WAR is berseker

[open verge]

That doesn’t make any fucking sense

[wet crown]

[open verge]

[autumn heron]

They censored it in the Chinese version amd said she was a summoner

[cinder badger]

Why would the warrior of light be using Darkness

[gaunt star]

WAR does fill beserker yes, but. He was specifially named beserker.

[maiden swallow]

In the context of the lore necromancy dose a lot of damage to the environment.

[autumn heron]

What is Dark Knight

[cinder badger]

Exactly

[subtle pasture]

Using dark emotions, not capital d Darkness

It’s complicated

[open verge]

Have you played shadowbringers??

[random ravine]

you could have a holy necromancer, that just summons shades of people, rather than resurrecting them as skeletons

[cinder badger]

@open verge Dark Knight existed before shadowbringers

[open verge]

Have you done the drk story quest then?

[gaunt star]

the thing is with WAR is that it isn't berserker, it hold berserker like traits however. In the sense, DRK can be just as much Berserker as WAR.

[cinder badger]

You are asking the question why would the warrior of light use necromancy

Also the spectral Necromancer boss it's supposed to be a warrior of light that is why they are in the heroes gauntlet

[open verge]

I think there is a big difference between drk and straight up necromancy

[autumn heron]

Its explicitly stated in the story that light and dark dont matter, its how you CHOOSE to use them

[subtle pasture]

Mind, every line of dialogue from the Spectral Necro is how corrupted she’s become

[wet crown]

The spectral enemies also come from different shards

[autumn heron]

Back in 3.4

[gaunt star]

Source is the most normal.

[subtle pasture]

This too, majorly. Different cultures, different disciplines.

[gaunt star]

First was flooded in light.

[subtle pasture]

Hence ink mages and not arcanists, etc

[cinder badger]

@open verge oh you're totally right with moves like Soul Eater or Abyssal drain or having a blood gauge

[wet crown]

PotD and Tam-Tara (Hard) alone would make Derplander refuse to use necromancy

[autumn heron]

Thirteenth was flooded in darkness

[gaunt star]

I would have to assume that the new job has to be something from the Source, not from the First.

[cinder badger]

@gaunt star maybe the job exists on both?

@gaunt star The Bunny woman is in crystarium was a dancer

[maiden swallow]

In the context of 14 lore dishonoring dead is a major tabo, and im pretty sure bringing back the dead falls under dishonoring.

[gaunt star]

I mean we never saw gunbreaker till Thancred used it in the first, but the job itself came from the Source.

[subtle pasture]

Not quite, Lyna’s “class” is captain of the guard

[gaunt star]

The same goes for Dancer.

[subtle pasture]

So she’s kinda just, a chakram wielder

[wet crown]

Lyna only uses DNC actions but she isn't a dancer

just how Alphinaud has never been a SCH, despite using Nymian magic

[subtle pasture]

Sharlayan arcanima

[wet crown]

bootleg Nymian magic

[autumn heron]

Yes Alphy is an "Academian"

[gaunt star]

KNOWLEDGE

[cinder badger]

@autumn heron not anymore

[autumn heron]

I mean

He still is

[gaunt star]

Where is Alphy's Carbuncles now?

[autumn heron]

6.0 isnt out yet

[subtle pasture]

He is still an academician, he woulda just traded out foci

[wet crown]

Alphinaud will continue to be academician until he gets his soul crystal

[subtle pasture]

Scholarly pursuits are weird

[cinder badger]

What if he already was a sage and just didn't want to use it

[wet crown]

Honestly, I wonder if he'll trade in his grimoire...because it'll be destroyed in 5.5

[autumn heron]

Why would he purposely limit his own potential?

[wet crown]

I don't see why else he'd want to get a job

[subtle pasture]

He still wields his half of Adelphoi, doesn’t he?

[wet crown]

he treasure his grimoire so much

yes, and Alisaie keeps her half somewhere safe

[cinder badger]

@autumn heron I don't know maybe he has something to do with the whole his dad being a sage thing. I mean if that proves to be true it would make sense given that he and his father don't exactly see eye-to-eye

[open verge]

Alisaie was complaining about not getting development or no major changes but she stayed rdm

[autumn heron]

Hes not as much of an egotist as he was in ARR but he's still ambitious

[wet crown]

why the fuck do you people want Alisaie to change jobs

smh

[autumn heron]

It wouldnt make sense at all for him to limit himself

[open verge]

I don’t

I just thought it was funny

[wet crown]

RDM is the absolute BEST job for her

[open verge]

Rdm fits her

I know

[cinder badger]

@autumn heron it doesn't make sense that he exists

[autumn heron]

???

[subtle pasture]

Maybe they’ll wield the completed Adelphoi again in 5.5X or early 6.0

[autumn heron]

Sage is 100% using magitech

[cinder badger]

Look I don't even like alphinaud I think he's an obnoxious asshole lol. Alisaie is the best

[wet crown]

nouliths are controlled with aether

[autumn heron]

How is he obnoxious?

Did you skip his development in HW?

[subtle pasture]

Not necessarily Magitek, yeah

[wet crown]

not exactly magiteck

[autumn heron]

Where he learns to stop being so egotistical

[cinder badger]

@autumn heron he's a whiny little know-it-all and can't even swim.

[autumn heron]

None of the elezens can swim

Its a common theme

[subtle pasture]

Magitek would make it either Garlean or the Ironworks involved

[wet crown]

Alisaie swims super well, tyvm

[cinder badger]

@autumn heron Alisaie can swim just fine

[autumn heron]

Urianger almost drowns in the end of 5.0

[subtle pasture]

Though, the latter is highly possibly, I still bank of it as a Sharlayan discipline

[autumn heron]

Amd how is he whiny?

[gaunt star]

If Urianger wasn't wearing a dress, he could swim.

[autumn heron]

Again did you skip his development in HW?

[wet crown]

Urianger never learned to swim

his clothes are irrelevant

[cinder badger]

Why are you trying so hard to defend alphinaud of all people

[subtle pasture]

They are,

[gaunt star]

https://tenor.com/view/ff14-ffxiv-urianger-shadowbringers-astro-gif-18138744

[subtle pasture]

Take them off

[autumn heron]

Hes one of my favorite characters

[wet crown]

and if not for Derplander, the twins would be the main characters

[autumn heron]

So I would like am actual reason for why you dislike him

[open verge]

What do you have against alphy that makes you ignore every action after arr

[cinder badger]

@autumn heron good you can have him. I personally don't like him he annoys me

He's also really bad at keeping his mouth shut

[gaunt star]

https://tenor.com/view/alisaie-alphinaud-ff14-ffxiv-gif-18131902

[autumn heron]

Its seems to me you just didn't pay attention to his entire character arc

[subtle pasture]

It’s the galaxy brain meme of like,

[cinder badger]

Like letting it slip that Y'shtola was using Matoya's name on the first.

[open verge]

Alisaie is more whiny then alphinaud if anything lmao

[autumn heron]

Is that bad?

[cinder badger]

He likes to hear the sound of his own voice which is typical of any politician

[gaunt star]

I really love how the animation of the scenes is getting more and more fluid with each patch and expansion

[open verge]

Yea

Mocap money lets go

[subtle pasture]

Like alphy and not alisaie, liking alisaie and not alphinaud,

[autumn heron]

Its not like Matoya actually cares aside from a little teasing

[open verge]

Fandaniel exist just to flex animations

[wet crown]

man, this chat is just beyond me right now

[subtle pasture]

Liking how much the twins compliment each other as characters and act like actual siblings

[wet crown]

[gaunt star]

Alisaie is just replacement Yda.

[open verge]

Bad take

Alisaie is actually cool

[autumn heron]

Again have you not at all payed any attention to him after ARR

[gaunt star]

yeah Alisaie is better then Yda.

[autumn heron]

He learned his lesson

[autumn heron]

Like directly after the crystal braves coup

[gaunt star]

but each character has grown.

even Urianger.

[open verge]

I used to hate urianger

[subtle pasture]

Oh Alphinaud is absolutely a big fucking dweeb who, despite his diplomacy skills, does not think before speaking around his friends

[open verge]

But after he became a dad in 5.0 he’s super dope

[subtle pasture]

And it’s endearing

[cinder badger]

@gaunt star he has? he must have kept that a secret too

[autumn heron]

Alphinaud realized him himself isnt good enough to save Eorzea by his lonesome

He needs help

Thats his entire arc in post arr and HW

[cinder badger]

@autumn heron alphinaud is a politician

[autumn heron]

And...?

[open verge]

And?

[autumn heron]

The scions are a political force

[open verge]

Exactly

[subtle pasture]

Yeah, he is, it’s his strength in the scions

[gaunt star]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[placid sail]

he's a diplomat, a negotiator

and a healer

[somber storm]

A baby

[autumn heron]

The scions need diplomats and he fills that role

[placid sail]

also soon he will be a gundam

[gaunt star]

https://tenor.com/view/ffxiv-shadowbringers-exarch-graha-gif-18098716

What about best boy?

[somber storm]

Child diplomat

[open verge]

Alisaie is just a hotheaded wol fangirl

[somber storm]

Graha too busy fawning over us

[gaunt star]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[autumn heron]

The scions for all intents and purposes is the INTERPOL of Eorzea

[subtle pasture]

And she’s perfect as she is uwu

[gaunt star]

I don't mind G'raha fawning over us.

[open verge]

I hope graha stops being a fanboy in the coming patches

[placid sail]

the scions is a bit of a supranational organization of scions and sinners

[somber storm]

Plus you know, probably tired of doing diplomatic stuff after 100 years

[cinder badger]

I'm pretty sure the original intent of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn was to do the shit that the three nations either couldn't do or wouldn't do because their political leaders spent too much time deliberating

[gaunt star]

maybe I can take G'raha to my farm, and ...

[open verge]

I guess that’s what 90% of the player base wants

[subtle pasture]

G’raha not being in the first END teaser is a concern

[cinder badger]

Especially when it came to fighting primals

[scenic sun]

HEY Alisaie is better than Yda

[open verge]

We have no idea what is going to happen to the scions

[gaunt star]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[somber storm]

Too be fair, Graha be a bit of a spoiler character

[placid sail]

do you mean the teaser trailer for FFXIV: EW?

[open verge]

I feel like some of em gonna die

[gaunt star]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[subtle pasture]

Yeah, fair enough

[gaunt star]

This is a spoiler channel ?

[placid sail]

man I am so excited for EW

[open verge]

R u

[autumn heron]

Yes they are Interpol essentially. But when you open what is basically an international police force diplomacy is a must

[placid sail]

EW is going to be great

[lavish aurora]

Bring on the FF4 references and the twins turning to stone

[autumn heron]

You cant just do whatever the fuck you wamt

[gaunt star]

yeah spoiler warnings, but spoilers are fine here.

[cinder badger]

The whole point of moving to Mor Dhona was to stay out of the politics of the three nations because living in Thanalan was putting pressure on them with Ul'dah

[placid sail]

but fuck that abbreviation holy shit

[scenic sun]

I feel like Endwalker has both FF2 and FF4 vibes

[placid sail]

EW

[autumn heron]

Yea

[gaunt star]

Time travel is still a possibility.

[somber storm]

Crystal Braves

[autumn heron]

The scions still need diplomats

[gaunt star]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[autumn heron]

They cant just do whatever the fuck they want

[gaunt star]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[autumn heron]

They need the help of the other nations to directly FUND THEIR EXPLOITS

[somber storm]

Crystal Braves fiasco

[autumn heron]

What funds the scions is taxes from the other nations

[somber storm]

Rip getting our blue uniforms

[autumn heron]

Or did you think they just grew the money on trees?

[subtle pasture]

Scions aren’t just combatting the primal threat because the GC’s are entrenched in politics.... like, the entire first arc of entreating with the sylphs, hello?

[gaunt star]

analysis on the trailer, Alisaie, the WoL, and Alphinaud were all fighting in Limsa somewhere.

[autumn heron]

God its like you didnt pay attention at all to what the scions exist for@cinder badger

[subtle pasture]

Mhm, near the Floating City it seems,

The trailer zooms in on Vylbrand just before

[gaunt star]

Nymians again.

[subtle pasture]

Well near a Tower, mind.

[gaunt star]

the monster was different than what is usually in the area, something void heavy. So, something voidy will happen?

[lavish aurora]

I'm still hoping for a Lunar Cry type scenario with said towers and a "final days" kind of moment

[gaunt star]

One message removed from a suspended account.

It should be noted that everything seems to be on fire as well, meaning an attack?

[placid sail]

I bet you that in the full trailer the camera zooms out of Vylbrand again and then zooms in on another part of the map

[gaunt star]

I mean you get a pretty good look at all the fire and stuff

[subtle pasture]

Yeah I think the flames becoming Fandaniel’s firepit is a jumpcut for the first teaser

[open verge]

The Zenos scene is definitely cut too

[placid sail]

when you compare the first shadowbringers teaser to the full thing

it was severely cut up

[gaunt star]

yeah

[somber storm]

Music be lit though

[placid sail]

so much from the battle between the WoD and Forgiven whatsit was just cut out

[gaunt star]

We can confirm Void Ark will be involved in some way?

[placid sail]

not yet

[somber storm]

Using Void Ark to go to the moon

[subtle pasture]

iirc the very first teaser was taken from Derp’s flashbacks while they were crawling through Lakeland, yeah?

[placid sail]

though the star destroyer in the art could be the Void Ark, we have no certainty about anything

[gaunt star]

looks very void arky

[subtle pasture]

And we don’t see it’s flashbacks from that scene til the full cut

[open verge]

It being the void ark would be so fucking good

[placid sail]

I'd love it yeah

[open verge]

Void ark quest line is so underrated

I don’t know how they tie those characters into the msq

[placid sail]

depends on if they want to make the Mhach raids part of the MSQ as well

[subtle pasture]

It’s Mhachi but more fleshy, else I think it’s just the shared inspiration

[open verge]

Yea but the mhach story feels so

[placid sail]

if there is a time to tie all the major side quests into the main story it's now

[open verge]

Stand-alone in away?

[subtle pasture]

Shadows of Mhach mostly tied in to Lost City of Amdapor and Amdapor Keep Hard

[gaunt star]

Well it seems like Zenos is sitting on a chair overlooking the destruction of a place, as Fandaniel walks up behind him. The structure seems to be void ark origin still.

[digital forge]

200% expecting Sky Pirates quest to be mandatory tbh

[subtle pasture]

Such that I’m still surprised they weren’t prerequisites

[open verge]

I just can’t see the sky pirates being in msq like I see graha

[gaunt star]

Moon in Zeno's eye zoom. Maybe Zeno has his eye set on the moon as well?

[open verge]

He does

[placid sail]

could always be Garlean engineering but they started to adapt Mhachi technology on top of Allagan technology now

[digital forge]

nah he's staring at the WoL /s

[open verge]

Aint zodiark in the moon

[subtle pasture]

Pretty certain their tower is overlooking Garlemald

Or such is the popular belief

[placid sail]

anyway the Void Ark is still just floating around out there

[subtle pasture]

The falling burning airship, oof, prae vibes

[placid sail]

only question is, how the fuck would you power it now that the voidsent are gone

[errant coral]

Have a feeling for the next melee job its philosophy was built around hunting voidsent.

[gaunt star]

I like to believe void ark is involved in some way.

Void Hunter

[placid sail]

Demon Hunter

[subtle pasture]

Mhachi martial forces, MHACHI MARTIAL FORCES

I’d be down

[placid sail]

[errant coral]

I was thing of void reaper.

[subtle pasture]

Void hunter, VDH

[placid sail]

are we prepared for a job like that?

[subtle pasture]

—wait

VDH would be a tank

[gaunt star]

Nah think of it more like an assassin

[subtle pasture]

(The joke is vengeance demon hunter, its tank spec from WoW)

[gaunt star]

I am thinking scythe weilders being a sort of melee bridge between DRG and MNK.

[subtle pasture]

But fr id love a scythe wielding Mhachi soldier

[gaunt star]

like I imagine them being put into the DRG gear range

[open verge]

Hope so

I hope the job has hella positionals

I really do

But I can see it having like 1 positional

[gaunt star]

DRG has no one, MNK has SAM, BRD has MCH and DNC, NIN has no one as well.

[subtle pasture]

It’s a scythe, obviously the positionals would be to stand in the cusp of rear and flank

[gaunt star]

basic positionals like DRG?

[placid sail]

me swinging my scythe

[open verge]

??

[lilac crest]

We already have a scythe in game its in mogstation

\

[open verge]

Oh you mean gear?

[gaunt star]

yeah

[open verge]

I thought you were talking about positionals sorry

[lilac crest]

also yeah that would be interesting to see

instead of actual positionals

you need to be a certain distance

like max melee or something

[gaunt star]

I mean BRD, MCH and DNC are all ranged DPS.

[lilac crest]

imagine how detrimental that shit is for mechanics

where you have to be max melee

I mean

inside the hitbox

[gaunt star]

its probably why they all share gear.

[open verge]

I hope the job has monks combo system

But I know it won’t

[vernal haven]

it is kinda weird how only the melee don't share gear

[open verge]

I just want the job to be on more of the monk spectrum of the melee role but I know it’s gonnna play like drg/Sam

[gaunt star]

I like how GNB can do a 9 hit combo.

[vernal haven]

i want it to be like none of them smh

[open verge]

Understandable

[vernal haven]

new is good

[gaunt star]

Whats more likely for Scythe job, sharing gear with DRG or NIN?

[open verge]

Confirmed drg

[subtle pasture]

Huh, scythe wielder could be a Gelmorran discipline

[vernal haven]

just give it its own armour type and return to the trend of melee having too many armour types

[subtle pasture]

And have Valdeaulin unveil it in 5.5

(The Duskwight with Gaius in Werlyt)

[cinder badger]

lol the tank in my party just now

[autumn heron]

Watch it be a staff job

Going full son wu kong

[cinder badger]

Collects aggro just by running by mobs but when healer picked up aggro by healing them they refused to peel off using "you pull you tank"

That's not even the proper way to use that excuse

Healer trying to make sure the tank doesn't die. It's not like our DPS was pulling xD

[vernal haven]

i mean you are playing bitchy tanks the mmo

[carmine root]

That is what we like to call "a bad tank person"

[unique verge]

Imagine being a bitchy tank

[ember forum]

Now I'm salty af tbh 😭

This aint fair, uh uh

[carmine root]

What was the abbreviation of Sage in FFXI?

[unique verge]

Like, if im a tank and the rest of the group manages to outrun me, i was fucking AFK and deserve to be ridiculed

[vernal haven]

thats called not binding sprint

[carmine root]

I have the opposite problem when I tank--I tend to apologize far too much and could probably pull more than I attempt to

[autumn heron]

I dont even remember if there was an ingame abbreviation for jobs in XI

[carmine root]

There was

[unique verge]

Tanks shouldnt apologize

They should sprint and destroy things

[carmine root]

To be fair tanking is not my best role at all

But I always try to do best by my group and I wouldn't be judging or blaming other people when things go wrong

I feel that when a group fails, it's not the fault of a single individual but the party as a whole

[vernal haven]

depends on exactly how it fails

[unique verge]

That's generally wrong

[carmine root]

in most cases, everyone could have done something to improve things even if it wasn't their fault it happens

[unique verge]

Its almost always exactly one persons fault when a group fails in a dungeon

[carmine root]

But I am a bit biased

[vernal haven]

if a tank pulls wall to wall without his stance on and presses no buttons at all then

[autumn heron]

Might just be cause Im an asshole but I never understood things like tank anxiety or heal anxiety

[vernal haven]

its literally fully his fault

[carmine root]

It may just be that you don't have anxiety problems 🙂

[vernal haven]

but in more general cases theres usually a mix of blame yes

[unique verge]

Tanxiety is......something i laugh at. I dont get it at all.

[carmine root]

I don't get anxious healing though really

[unique verge]

Tanking is literally the most braindead easy job in the game

[autumn heron]

Like who cares you're never gonna see those 3 asshats in ir party again

[unique verge]

idk why people get so scared of it

[autumn heron]

Just do what you know youre supposed to

[vernal haven]

it probably doesnt help that the tanking role feels ass backwards to level

1-50 is harder than 51+

[carmine root]

I don't get anxious tanking I just feel bad if I don't do a good enough job. I feel pressure tanking because people depend on me to do things correctly and make the right choices. This is especially true if you are not familiar with a dungeon and don't know how much to pull, or how much the healer can handle

[autumn heron]

If I fuck up while tanking I'll take the L

[carmine root]

The L?

[vernal haven]

once you hit 51 the answer to how much to pull is yes

or even 50 i guess

[autumn heron]

Like 2 days ago we wiped cause I accidently turned off tank stance while doing my rotation

That was my b

[vernal haven]

how tho

[autumn heron]

I have it mapped to down on the d-pad and didnt notice I hit the button

[carmine root]

You say that but I've done content such as that level 65 dungeon in Stormblood in Level 60 tomestone gear and people got annoyed at me for pulling too much because "my gear wasn't good enough" and I still don't know if it was my fault really

[vernal haven]

thats some bad rng right there

[carmine root]

I was only doing 2 groups at a time but we were struggling for some reason

Either way, I try to get a feel for my groups and work with them.

[autumn heron]

65 is where the HW tomegear losses its effectiveness

[carmine root]

Some dungeons are very very easy of course and I will just assume people will do it correctly but I don't think that's always the case

[autumn heron]

But it should still be good enough to big pull

In that dungeon anyhow

[carmine root]

Either way, if people ask I pull more slowly I will, or if I can see that the healer is new I will try to ease them into things

[autumn heron]

This is where I am an asshole

healers gotta learn sometime

[carmine root]

If a healer is struggling and asks if you could slow down a bit and you don't listen to them and cause a wipe (or wipes) and make them feel bad, then you might just be

but it's not for me to say

But otherwise you seem perfectly reasonable

[vernal haven]

just press the healing button

[autumn heron]

I had a run of Dohn Mheg (level 73 dungeon) where the healer was noticeably having issues healing. I normally wouldnt mind slowing down of this were a low level dungeon but....

It was level 73

[unique verge]

There's really no excuse for it unless its a super low level dungeon

[vernal haven]

jump pots be like

[unique verge]

They need to be made to learn, or they'll be bad forever

[vernal haven]

brrr

[autumn heron]

So I went all in

And just said no pain no gain

[vernal haven]

last time i saw a healer let a tank die to lack of healing they were spamming cure so i called them out and it actually worked

[autumn heron]

YOU GOTTA LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME AT SOME POINT

HERES YOUR TRIAL BY FIRE

[vernal haven]

also dohn mheg

cursed place

[carmine root]

I see more tanks die on Dohn Mheg than any other shadowbringers dungeon

[autumn heron]

Its the dungeon currently where you can tell who used skip potions

[unique verge]

Yeah Dohn Mheg is pretty much where all the morons stick out

Particularly the ones that buy an MSQ/Job jump on their first character ever

[cinder badger]

So perfect balance now kind of works like acceleration?

[autumn heron]

I was a DPS at one point running Qitari Ravel and the tank didnt knoe what Vuln stacks were

[vernal haven]

i feel like in any multiplayer game its kinda common courtesy to understand how to play the game before you leap 200 levels to grief people

[autumn heron]

[unique verge]

Hey, maybe they were just that good of a tank until then

lul

[autumn heron]

Perhaps, but they also didnt have tank stance on

[somber storm]

Or level and story skip

[vernal haven]

im still not looking forward to the cursed world where a bunch of people who have never tried healer before try sage and murder their parties

[autumn heron]

And of course the mentor in the party was babying the shit out of them

[unique verge]

Gonna throw this out there

[carmine root]

That's kind of harsh don't you think? Calling people griefers simply because they don't know how to play? And calling it common courtesy while you force them to play in ways they are not ready or comfortable to feels a little hypocritical...

It's okay if you want to play that way but that feels kind of silly, no offense

[vernal haven]

you're literally skipping 70 levels of content where you could learn to play

[unique verge]

i fucking hate people who whiteknight shitty players

[vernal haven]

jump potting without learning to play is griefing

[autumn heron]

I just expect you to know how to play by fucking level 73

[unique verge]

Also, yeah

[carmine root]

The only kind of players that bother me are the ones who are unwilling to listen or take offense if you offer friendly advice

[unique verge]

If you jump pot your first character

fuck off

i have no pity for you

[limber pivot]

^

i agree

[autumn heron]

And yes it is 100% greifing if you single pull past ARR content

[vernal haven]

by all means take your time to learn, you know, like the levels you skipped were designed to help you do, but don't skip into clueless land and fuck with a party of other people

[carmine root]

You don't have to, but calling them griefers just feels ridiculous

[unique verge]

You're literally saying to the rest of the playerbase "i'm intentionally going to be a burden on you in every way possible"

[vernal haven]

i mean

they're griefing

what would you like me to call them

[carmine root]

Selfish or naive seems more appropriate

[unique verge]

Dead weight? Worthless? Useless? A waste of space?

Those all seem like good options

[vernal haven]

[autumn heron]

[carmine root]

Griefer implies that they are intentionally trying to cause you frustration for their own enjoyment

I highly doubt that they are

[unique verge]

I mean, they basically are though

[somber storm]

I mean, I pretty much had to single pull a arr dungeon because the healer wasn't used to it plus we were avoiding mobs

[carmine root]

I have no idea where you are even connecting that...

[unique verge]

They're saying "I dont want to have to learn to play my job, because that isnt fun for me. So i'm going to inflict frustration on everyone around me so i can have fun"

[vernal haven]

i mean if you can get through square enixes page to level skip you can play a job

[autumn heron]

To this playerbase does 100% consider single pulling dungeons from HW onward griefing

[hallow zodiac]

I don't

[autumn heron]

Most people if they see it just leave

[lunar hound]

I don't <.<

[autumn heron]

Or force pulls

[unique verge]

If i see a single puller i'll either be toxic until they man up, or leave.

[hallow zodiac]

Tank and healer set the pace. If they wanna single pull in a roulette, that's their discretion

[carmine root]

I don't either

[onyx sundial]

Not this again

[carmine root]

Let tanks and healers play how they want, if I want to control the dungeon I will tank

[hallow zodiac]

If anyone complains, get a premade. Doneso

[limber pivot]

stupid mindset

[autumn heron]

Fuck that

[limber pivot]

you're dumb

im better at the game

ggs

[hallow zodiac]

rofl okay

[autumn heron]

You should know how to play the game by that point

[vernal haven]

since hw became free trial i feel like that bar moved up a bit but yeah by that point you should be at minimum doubling up on the pulls

[gaunt star]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[limber pivot]

rofl? rofl in 2021? What are you? 27 years old?

[vernal haven]

if you meet its min ilvl you can take two

[limber pivot]

🤣

[hallow zodiac]

Let's also acknowledge that it's gotten easier in Shadowbringers days to double-pull

[unique verge]

Single pulls are literally the most pointless things in the world. You dont even need a healer for single pulls.

[carmine root]

I think Goatman is just trolling at this point

[limber pivot]

bro wall to wall

[onyx sundial]

If the tank only wants to single pull, the tank should adjust

[hallow zodiac]

rofl okay

[vernal haven]

yes its gotten easier to double pull, thats exactly why its considered the minimum

[limber pivot]

if you don't WALL TO WALL pull you aren't tanking

[errant coral]

this only going to get worse, when people expect to act like trusts.

[onyx sundial]

If everyone else except the tank wants to single pull then the tank should single pull

[autumn heron]

Even before 5.0 double pulling was ez as shit

[unique verge]

So, i'm just gonna throw this out there as a counter to the "Trust" thing.

[carmine root]

If I don't like that a tank is single pulling I will ask them to try bigger pulls if they can handle more

Shockingly enough, they often listen

You could try that

[onyx sundial]

Even if i hate it ill just leave.

[limber pivot]

i can only single pull bc i dont know what cooldowns are 👉 👈

[unique verge]

If i'm on tank, fucking Urianger can heal me through wall to walls. If i'm on healer, i can heal Thancred through wall to walls. If a fucking bot can do the role, a human can.

[autumn heron]

If I see a tank single pulling anti tower

The easiest fastest dungeon in the game

I

[carmine root]

Usually tanks doing single pulls are worried about making mistakes and if you encourage them, they will be happy to try more

[autumn heron]

As a healer

Force double pulls

[carmine root]

That's really petty

Why not just ask?

[hallow zodiac]

Agreed, that is petty.

[limber pivot]

i would ask first

[unique verge]

Like basically if you're less useful than a Trust NPC, what purpose do you even serve.

[limber pivot]

if no response then just go for it

[onyx sundial]

Trial by fire

[hallow zodiac]

Then run a trust, dude lol

[onyx sundial]

They wont learn until u do it

[autumn heron]

Im expecting you to know how to play the game by that point

[onyx sundial]

[autumn heron]

ARR content

Fine

HW onward no

[errant coral]

trusts kinda poison the well in my view.

[limber pivot]

when the lvl 70 GNB says first time ever tanking

[autumn heron]

Plz be OT

[limber pivot]

its a dungoen

[unique verge]

ARR content is different because ARR dungeons are weird and have skippable trash and shit. "Getting lost" is theoretically possible. etc.

[autumn heron]

[unique verge]

Everything from HW onward follows the FF13 design philosophy of "its a fucking hallway. it does everything it can to distract you from the fact its a hallway, but its a hallway."

[limber pivot]

yea

[carmine root]

I mean I'm not arguing that you shouldn't encourage players to play better, I'm only saying that you should be a little more patient and help them play better instead of acting selfish and trying to force them into situations by making them feel bad

[unique verge]

Press Sprint, Press W, Press AoE's, Press Cooldowns

Collect EXP

[carmine root]

If they don't respond to you trying to help them then feel free to do something else if you feel frustrated by it

But at least try.

[autumn heron]

How hard is it to just aoe and pop 1 cool down a double pack

[unique verge]

Here's the thing Mimia

[limber pivot]

it just

[unique verge]

I expect you to have figured it out by 70+

[limber pivot]

after a couple months or year of playing

[unique verge]

I shouldnt be having to teach 70+ people the basics

[limber pivot]

you just find so many people who don't give a shit about the bare minimum

[pulsar yacht]

to be fair 10 is one giant hallway also barring exception of calm lands side content

[limber pivot]

this

[unique verge]

Yeah but 13 is the meme on that, lol

[autumn heron]

After almost 7 years of playing

I dont care anymore

You either know how to play by the end of HW

or I will make you learn

[carmine root]

I feel the same way to an extent, I just actually like helping people play better instead of trying to force them to do things out of spite

I guess that's ironic

[limber pivot]

it might be different for you bc

we are on Primal and you are on Crystal

you might get different kinds of people on DF

[carmine root]

If you are causing wipes trying to force people to play differently then that's okay, the question is are you getting angry and judging them if that happens?

If not, then I don't really have a problem with what you are doing, extreme though it may be

[wind orbit]

ive played on all 3 DCs in NA, the DF people are more or less the same

[carmine root]

If by that you mean it's a mixed bag then I think I agree

[wind orbit]

ye

[carmine root]

I haven't played on any other data centers though

[wind orbit]

you get people who press buttons and people who press no buttons

[autumn heron]

The thing is me forcing pulls has never caused a wipe

It literally shows them how ez this shit is

[carmine root]

If you are talking about making double pulls happen as a healer then I believe that

That's your choice, personally I'd rather just encourage them but if you are too proud to do that then that's okay too

I was more talking about doing mega pulls as a tank in a leveling dungeon

[open verge]

I just walk past them and jump up and down

[unique verge]

I also have another counterpoint to this "encourage and teach" thing

[carmine root]

There is content where spamming cure 2 isn't really enough to keep people alive, and there is also content where even if the healer is fairly okay the damage is too low and the healer runs out of MP

[unique verge]

I gain nothing by doing it with a light hand.

[open verge]

Sometimes I just pull for the,

[unique verge]

The chances that i will run anything with that player again is near zero

[open verge]

Don’t have time to be babying a tank

[carmine root]

So in other words you are literally selfish and spiteful because of anonymity and care nothing about courtesy. I actually appreciate you being honest about that.

That's your choice but I am never going to look at things that way.

[unique verge]

No, i'm saying that all of the time investment required to teach a random from DF

is burned and useless the moment the dungeon ends

So i could either spend 10+ minutes typing nicely and being "encouraging"

[carmine root]

People don't have to be a saint but being spiteful just feels petty to me.

[unique verge]

orrrrr i could spent 5 seconds dragging shit onto the tank and saying "pull more"

[carmine root]

I am glad I don't really run across people like this in practice in dungeons

[open verge]

This is why I play tank in dungeons

[hallow zodiac]

Thankfully most folks aren't so aggressive about it lol

[limber pivot]

omegabruh nice emote wow

[open verge]

Can’t fucking stand slow tanks

[unique verge]

And to be clear, this is not the case for all content

[carmine root]

It's a fair reason if you don't want to have the risk of playing with inexperienced tanks you should play one

[vernal haven]

to be fair i used to try and take that approach but

[open verge]

If you are doing small pulls in expert dungeon your an idiot

[carmine root]

Then there is a 0% chance (in theory)

[vernal haven]

nobody even reads chat

[open verge]

^

[vernal haven]

showing with actions is usually the only way

[unique verge]

I teach people properly in CLL for example. Because i get a reasonable return on my investment, sometimes the pool of players who arent useless increases by a couple dozen by taking the time.

[carmine root]

Like I said earlier if people don't respond to encouragement then feel free to be more aggressive

[vernal haven]

by all means try the ol "hey you can pull more"

[carmine root]

Just give people a chance.

[open verge]

You don’t understand how many times people just straight up kicked me for trying to help

[vernal haven]

but it almost never works

[limber pivot]

when you just want to do your roulettes but you just get the worst group

[carmine root]

Maybe it's just different for me but I don't really have a problem. That said I ask between pulls, not during one

[vernal haven]

i had a world of darkness wipe because all 3 tanks had stance off yesterday

[limber pivot]

i just take the 30 min penalty

[vernal haven]

shits wack

[open verge]

“Hey can you please keep the mobs within my earthly star?” Kicked

[carmine root]

I'm skeptical about that

[open verge]

😔 I’m now a punished player that has no remorse

[unique verge]

in fairness

[open verge]

Why are you

[limber pivot]

omg one time i asked if the healer could do some damage and the dps said "Don't tell people how to play!"

[unique verge]

Earthly Star is kind of obnoxious as a spell

[limber pivot]

in a lvl 80 dungeon

[open verge]

You think I’ll lie about that kinda of stuff

[carmine root]

Why would they kick a healer for courteously asking them to keep enemies within earthly star to better the group

[open verge]

The first thing I did when that happened to me was complain in this discord

[vernal haven]

i like earthly star i just dont like that its practically invisible

[carmine root]

This means more than half the group wanted you gone

[limber pivot]

premade

[vernal haven]

^

[viscid monolith]

That's how XIV be

[unique verge]

they really need to give it a WHM/SCH style dome

[vernal haven]

premade is the easy answer

[open verge]

Just because I got kicked

[carmine root]

It sounds more like things escalated for them to kick a healer over a simple request sounds unreal

[open verge]

Doesn’t mean it was fair

[carmine root]

I've never seen that ever.

[open verge]

Good for you

[limber pivot]

oh its real

[vernal haven]

the worse players are the pissier they get

[open verge]

But it happened to me and I reported it

[unique verge]

also, completely fucking random side thought about Earthly Star

[carmine root]

I've seen a lot of healers get angry and spiteful and get kicked for throwing a tantrum

[limber pivot]

since you get vote kicked you don't get the penalty

[unique verge]

Fuck Earthly Star on Dawon in CLL

[open verge]

[limber pivot]

so its all good

[unique verge]

goddamn thing looks like a white feather

[viscid monolith]

I kicked as a tank because I refused to pull anymore mobs until the BLM left

[onyx sundial]

[carmine root]

Then they kicked you correctly

[open verge]

Me?

[viscid monolith]

The BLM? broken gear and ilvl 320 in Dohn Mheg

[carmine root]

No Lance.

That's petty and spiteful

[viscid monolith]

No I'm not fucking pulling

[carmine root]

If you are not willing to play then you should be kicked so they can get a tank that will.

That seems appropriate to me

[unique verge]

Mimia

[open verge]

We wiped and I told him not to pull outside of my earthly Star

[unique verge]

320 and broken gear

[open verge]

That’s it

[unique verge]

That's...

[viscid monolith]

You're really living up to Crystal's name you know that?

[unique verge]

Not even the right expansions gear

Like

[viscid monolith]

This is why no one likes Crystal