Well botanists use scythes too
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
woeful dagger
Sage as a name is taken from other FF's but the style of Sage is completely unique to FF14 (not dissimilar to Dark Knight and Gunbreaker). So the next class just ripping a name but being completely unique to FF14 wouldn't be a shocker.
gaunt star
in EW
gaunt star
we have ff4 references
like Kain (Estinien) in the trust system
us becoming a paladin
carmine root
I am just glad we have a new healer job coming
gaunt star
which means the villain
carmine root
I am so excited
maiden lodge
Sage as a name is taken from other FF's but the style of Sage is completely uniq...
i mean it's not even a thing unique to FF14, a ton of jobs are basically 'we just put the name on some abilities we liked'
craggy gale
flesh monster
gaunt star
(including the dragon)
maiden lodge
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/b/bd/DFF2015_Golbez_Render...
I HATE THIS but it makes more sense than most
carmine root
Sage is not unique to Final Fantasy, however their weapons are
viscid monolith
Golbez is just a mage
gaunt star
i will nut so fucking hard if its just
"We turned the shadow dragon thing into its own class"
pine epoch
I'm kinda sad that sage is most likely going to be a cast time healer. I wish we had like a healer with a dual cast system or just straight up spells that dont have cast times. I know it doesnt change gameplay much
cinder badger
Who saying that I'm not being big brain about the new job?
carmine root
That said I don't recall Astrologian weapons being in another Final Fantasy
maiden lodge
Sage is not unique to Final Fantasy, however their weapons are
Yeah but there's never been two iterations of Sage that resembled each other except 'is a casster'
cinder badger
I'm the one saying it's going to be Warrior changed from a tank to a DPS
gaunt star
"Have Golbez from After Years but fucking cooler"
viscid monolith
His Shadow Dragon is cool but he's just a mage like half FF's main villains
gaunt star
okay so
craggy gale
finally I can be ryuki
warm bone
Sage is just a gundam
maiden lodge
I'm the one saying it's going to be Warrior changed from a tank to a DPS
Just call it Berserker
warm bone
Gundam job uwu
craggy gale
gaunt star
it can use magic and still be up close
oh no the mage class grew a pair of balls
how awful
woeful dagger
Just call it Berserker
My hope for Berserker is as a unique multi-role Job where it can take on the "style" of different animals to fill in different roles.
Since that's basically the Druid of FF's
carmine root
I suspect that none of the 'jobs' from the 5.3 dungeon will exist as playable ones in FFXIV
maiden lodge
it can use magic and still be up close
Eh. There's a limit to how much magic people will take from their melee jobs and still be melee. Ninja's about the extreme for that
worn bloom
I'm kinda sad that sage is most likely going to be a cast time healer. I wish we...
I mean healers already very rarely hard cast their healing spells already.
carmine root
Which is a shame since I like all 3 of them 😦
maiden lodge
My hope for Berserker is as a unique multi-role Job where it can take on the "st...
Good job making a limited job
worn bloom
I mean Berserker is Warrior 2 Electric Boogaloo.
cinder badger
@maiden lodge Yoshida changed his shirt in the middle of the segment which symbolizes the change from a tank to a DPS and because maiming gear is supposed to be a little more armored than other DPS it fits the Warrior theme
woeful dagger
How would it be Limited lol
carmine root
Berserker is sounding a lot like warrior
maiden lodge
<@275781124872077315> Yoshida changed his shirt in the middle of the segment whi...
They're not going to untank the warrior
carmine root
In fact they are sounding just about identical
worn bloom
They could just be names from other reflections.
So in other reflections it could have been called a Berserker instead of Warrior.
carmine root
That is likely the intent, though necromancers were very specific
cinder badger
And they're not going to make it Necromancer or Templar
warm bone
How would it be Limited lol
The only multi-role combat we have is a trust-exclusive ans BLU
pine epoch
I think in a post 6.0 announcement interview yoshida confirmed the melee dps uses maiming gear
So no need to like question
worn bloom
Necromancer would just seem so passe.
gaunt star
Eh. There's a limit to how much magic people will take from their melee jobs an...
Flavour the attacks as melee versions of previous spells, dumb shit like, flame strike, ice crash, thunder cross split attack
etc
pine epoch
It's in translation
gaunt star
etc
craggy gale
Finally we can be all rounder
woeful dagger
The only multi-role combat we have is a trust-exclusive ans BLU
That doesn't mean a real Job can't be multi-role, SE just has to commit to balancing it.
maiden lodge
The issue with making a job multi-role is you're really making three jobs and having them use the same weapon.
gaunt star
and give them some form of cast on an ability like how PLD has that one spell
gaunt star
small stuff
carmine root
blue mages can heal very well but I am not sure they will ever heal as well as a real healer even with all their broken skills
maiden lodge
And if they can perform each role by just switching a buff... okay if they can offtank, why bring a second tank?
viscid monolith
Ok hold up
carmine root
And they definitely won't tank as well as a real tank
cinder badger
@maiden lodge yeah but people already think that Warrior is a DPS anyway
maiden lodge
If they can off heal, why bring a healer?
viscid monolith
Blue Mage can heal but it doesn't heal "very well"
maiden lodge
You invalidate roles like that, unless you make it bad at those rules
carmine root
It's okay if they think that, as long as their warrior holds emnity ^^
maiden lodge
Blue Mage can heal but it doesn't heal "very well"
okayyyyyy
woeful dagger
And if they can perform each role by just switching a buff... okay if they can o...
Presumably with the FF system you would have to queue up in that Role, rather than being able to swap in-combat.
maiden lodge
Presumably with the FF system you would have to queue up in that Role, rather th...
The issue still is--why bring another role?
cinder badger
@viscid monolith blue Mage heals are amazing
woeful dagger
The issue still is--why bring another role?
You didn't read what I typed.
maiden lodge
If you have a dps that has off tank utility, why bring a second tank?
cinder badger
just remember to copy the Healer stance
craggy gale
why would I play any other class then
lazy ass
maiden lodge
If you have a dps that has off healing utility, why bring a second healer?
warm bone
blue mages can heal very well but I am not sure they will ever heal as well as a...
Right now. Their biggest challenege is that they can get hit by any mechanic in content. "Tank" blu can get healer mechanics and vise versa.
woeful dagger
That's not how the role swap would work
maiden lodge
And if you can't do all three at once--why make them a hybrid?
viscid monolith
After spending like 10 hours doing Blue Coil and 3 hours doing Alex Coil I can say with absolute authority that Blue Mage is a dps with heal and tank abilities tacked on.
maiden lodge
Just make three jobs
woeful dagger
It wouldn't just be "oh a 30k dps now suddenly gets healing spells". It would be "oh a 30k dps now drops to a healer and does healer dps"
warm bone
Imagine you are "healer" blu and you slapped by a tankbuster. Not much you can do
woeful dagger
And I explicitly didn't say "all three at once"
viscid monolith
It's 70% dps, 15% healer and 15% tank
maiden lodge
It wouldn't just be "oh a 30k dps now suddenly gets healing spells". It would be...
But why make those the same job?
woeful dagger
tmbToday at 9:37 PM
Presumably with the FF system you would have to queue up in that Role, rather than being able to swap in-combat.
idk man you are just putting words in my mouth so I'm kinda done talking about it
maiden lodge
Your character -can already swap roles inherently-
viscid monolith
Even the simplest of tasks on Blue Mage is a chore
maiden lodge
You're asking for a job to do what the armory system does inherently
viscid monolith
Do you know what part of A12S we're stuck on? Guess.
viscid monolith
Take a guess.
maiden lodge
For fantasy fulfillment yes
Your fantasy is for a job that can swap roles but can't in content?
woeful dagger
Someone might like the idea of gearing a single character and being able to flex into multiple roles. Novel idea I guess.
maiden lodge
That's not a job fantasy
carmine root
Trying to tank as a blue mage is not something I've attempted often or in any kind of hard content
woeful dagger
You are so obtuse it's unreal
carmine root
But healing is fun
maiden lodge
That's arcanist minus one role.
woeful dagger
Like your brain must have a wall as thick as the Berlin Wall
viscid monolith
We're stuck on the add phase
carmine root
In fact, I default to healer for the carnivals. It's just too useful!
woeful dagger
Because the simplest ideals just cannot penetrate it once you've made up your mind on something
viscid monolith
Why? Because the 2 final adds will one shot Blue Mage tanks if they aren't in Diamondback.
maiden lodge
What, for example, is the difference between your idea, and an arcanist, which already does that?
woeful dagger
SMN and SCH use different gear.
maiden lodge
SMN and SCH use different gear.
So would a job that could tank, heal, and dpsw.
viscid monolith
And the adds have a habit of using their tank buster right when Diamondback falls off
woeful dagger
Not if I designed it.
maiden lodge
OR, they'd have to have some OP twist that lets them get around it, like Blue
woeful dagger
OP in your mind
maiden lodge
Which goes back to why it's limited
viscid monolith
I will not let you call BLU OP
cinder badger
One of the problems with having multiple jobs use the same weapon is that when you equip a weapon it automatically changes you to that job if you have the Soul Stone which was a fix from changing to a weapon which therefore changed your class and you would have to equip your stone separately which was inconvenient.
If two jobs use the same weapon then it would just go back to having to equip the weapon and the Soul Stone. And what if it was one of the jobs that don't have a base class? How does the system figure out which soulstone to equip?
woeful dagger
Because no matter what anyone says your mind is made up
So why are you bothering talking to me
viscid monolith
It's ability to do all 3 roles is its weakest aspect
maiden lodge
'I cannot address any of your arguments ergo you must be the stupid one' is not a good way to argue with honestly, my dude.
woeful dagger
You didn't make an argument
maiden lodge
I made several.
woeful dagger
You're making unprovable statements about a hypothetical
maiden lodge
That's what an argument is my dude
woeful dagger
You just said "it has to be OP for this to work"
That isn't an argument
That's being obtuse
maiden lodge
ok troll
viscid monolith
It is an ok healer, and a barely passable tank
Excellent dps though. It pulls 16k dps at level 70.
maiden lodge
cry about having someone actually present what's wrong wih your idea, and you ignoring what's said so you can continue to hope for it
woeful dagger
"ok troll" says man who just claimed the only way something he's heard once can exist is by being OP
lol
cinder badger
Say you have two jobs that use a Greatsword. So when you go to equip a Greatsword the system now has to determine whether to swap to Dark Knight or the other Greatsword job
woeful dagger
I'm just glad you aren't a game designer.
maiden lodge
Sorry, added you to my 'block, do not engage' list, you're not worth it.
woeful dagger
The fact you have one says a lot more about you than me bud
viscid monolith
Say you have two jobs that use a Greatsword. So when you go to equip a Greatswo...
That shouldn't be a problem as all weapons are marked for what job uses them.
maiden lodge
Say you have two jobs that use a Greatsword. So when you go to equip a Greatswo...
What you'd do tho is differentiate as 'arms'
woeful dagger
Sorry that the wall around your brain cannot accept anything but your own grandiose ideas
maiden lodge
Like there's a lot of different swords right
cinder badger
@viscid monolith except if both jobs use the same exact weapons then it creates that issue
maiden lodge
But we know which is a paladin arm, a dark knight arm, a gunbreaker arm, a samurai arm, ninja arms, or a red mage arm
viscid monolith
<@151787892346322945> except if both jobs use the same exact weapons then it cre...
So they won't
maiden lodge
I see what lance is saying
You can have two claymore using jobs, just some claymores are Dark Knight Arms, and some are Smashmouth Arms
viscid monolith
Just do what the game is already doing with SMN/SCH and make 2 very similar weapons designated for their respective jobs.
maiden lodge
Though, Lance, in SMN and SCH's case, they share the same class
But a better example
WHM and BLM both use sticks. They don't share arms.
woeful dagger
I wonder if they'll ever remake the system and just remove Classes all together and just start you out as a Job, while also getting to remove Job crystals so we can use that armoury space.
maiden lodge
WHM uses wooden sticks
i dunnnooooo about that, some of them whm sticks look like metal weathervanes to me
viscid monolith
Shhh
maiden lodge
heheh
The point is, cosmetically they're similar but it doesn't matter gameplay wise, one is one the other is the other. I'm agreeing wif ya
You could even have the Soldier-type hold their weapon in front, a la Cloud, while Drk uses the ox stance to give different visual profiles
maiden lodge
wmh uses hammer in FFXI no? xD
They can, but there's no set 'weapon types' for most jobs
heady shadow
Hammer for whm 6.0 AF
viscid monolith
XI jobs had access to multiple weapon types
heady shadow
ye i know
woeful dagger
Rods, wands, hammers, maces, staves, swords.
woeful dagger
XI jobs had access to multiple weapon types
Which is why new Scythe job will be Beast Tamer.
People forget Beast Tamer can use scythes in 11
viscid monolith
I didn't know that
maiden lodge
Staffs and hammers and maces, and ... yeah
cinder badger
Really dude you're using Final Fantasy XI is an example when earlier on you ridiculed that game as being for "dumb kids"
maiden lodge
I mean watch we've all been bamboozled
viscid monolith
Makes sense though. The scythe is trimming plants to feed your beast so they can do all the work. Because SCYTHES ARE NOT WEAPONS.
maiden lodge
And the clue was 'neighborhood' and it's a scythe using geomancer
cinder badger
@viscid monolith except in the fantasy world scythes are used quite commonly as weapons
tropic frigate
its both a scythe wielder and templar e z
woeful dagger
Makes sense though. The scythe is trimming plants to feed your beast so they can...
It's just to me why would you introduce Beast Tamers to Bozja and not make use of them again. Thought again it'll probably be a limited Job where you actually get access to the real-NPC spells after you tame it which can all be super OP like BLU.
But I am hopeful it'll just be a Hunter-esque pet class.
viscid monolith
<@151787892346322945> except in the fantasy world scythes are used quite commonl...
I'm making a joke about how edgy anime has made people think scythes are an effective weapon.
maiden lodge
ANd before ya'll go 'Geomancer isn't a melee job'
heady shadow
maiden lodge
I'm making a joke about how edgy anime has made people think scythes are an effe...
i mean, edgelord metal did too
viscid monolith
Dark Knight would be better off with a pitchfork or shovel than a scythe
A giant fucking shovel
woeful dagger
we do already have scythe glam in the game
which makes me think it's unlikely we get a scythe Job cause that'll confuse people lol
tropic frigate
doesnt nin get some fans as a weapon
viscid monolith
You know those oversized scythes small anime children have in shonen? Replace them with oversized shovels.
pine epoch
I mean shovel knight is a thing
cinder badger
@viscid monolith only if you knew anything about human history War scythes were actually used.
pine epoch
So uh... I wouldn't mind a drk shovel
viscid monolith
That's why shovel knight is the best there is
maiden lodge
That's why shovel knight is the best there is
This arugment is too strong
heady shadow
woeful dagger
<@151787892346322945> only if you knew anything about human history War scythes ...
"War" scythe is a bit of an overstatement. It was more "farmers were conscripted and the army had nothing to give them so they used their farm equipment"
heady shadow
theres yer war scythes
tiny wind
are we talking about realistic weapons in a video game 
heady shadow
btw didnt Egyptians use a weird sickle sword?
viscid monolith
<@151787892346322945> only if you knew anything about human history War scythes ...
Why do these war scythes all look like spears
Or bladed spears
maiden lodge
Why do these war scythes all look like spears
Because they're actually fucking useful to fight with
viscid monolith
Exactly
cinder badger
What size were also used in fantasy as well they weren't just farm implements this is why it's called fantasy
gaunt star
which makes me think it's unlikely we get a scythe Job cause that'll confuse peo...
the gld gunblade didn't stop them from making gunbreaker
heady shadow
woeful dagger
is there a gld gunblade idr
gaunt star
yes
maiden lodge
the gld gunblade didn't stop them from making gunbreaker
The blazefire saber's not the same kind of gunblade.
woeful dagger
oh that lol
cinder badger
Can you differentiate between fantasy and reality or are you really a kindergartener?
It has nothing to do with "edgy anime" because the inclusion of a scythe as a weapon is a pretty common Staple in fantasy themes, such as the Grim Reaper
viscid monolith
What size were also used in fantasy as well they weren't just farm implements th...
I know. That's why my original statement was a joke about how impractical the type of scythes in video games are.
Then you correctly assumed I didn't know what war scythes existed. But you know what? I still knew they wouldn't look like scythes in games. And now you're making it personal and you look silly like I do sometimes. Stop that
maiden lodge
I'm on Lance's side, that's a bad sign
obsidian pagoda
Some of the DRG spears already look like those scythes
obsidian pagoda
off the top of my head you have the Doman Glaive and the Ala Mhigan one which is reverse bladed
woeful dagger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fujM6vvgF4
yeah like I said
heady shadow
btw
woeful dagger
Scythes were ever only used in war by farmers who were conscripted by militaries that didn't have the means to outfit them
cinder badger
Yeah I admit it was a dumb idea trying to use real-world logic to explain a fantasy world where anything can happen and anything is possible much like you were saying that size are unwieldy, used as farm tools and not used as weapons.
heady shadow
i used a farming scythe to cut all my grass once
cinder badger
Here's another real-world fact we can't magically shoot Fireballs out of our hands either
tiny wind
me too in stardew valley
heady shadow
because it was five feet tall lol
maiden lodge
I mean if zenos is using it it probalt needs rocket sorr somethin
obsidian pagoda
And jumping miles into the air as a potato
cinder badger
We can't teleport from point A to point B just by willing it
heady shadow
yet
cinder badger
I can't wave a magic stick and make a blizzard appear out of thin air
tiny wind
you can't?
cinder badger
This is why it's called "fantasyyyyy"
So if the developers want to make the Scythe a weapon then it's well within their rights and their imaginations to do so
maiden lodge
Look, we all know such a job would hold the scythe and you hit a button and cool magic swooshies chonkchonk around you with snickersnack noises that's not the point
The point is, it'll be a rocket scythe to be Zenos-compatible
cinder badger
Why doesn't have to be a rocket Scythe for it to be Zeno's compatible
maiden lodge
Or some eldritch oldone Anima Lunar Bahamut Fandaniel fuckery that sucks life out of the killed or some shit
maiden lodge
Why doesn't have to be a rocket Scythe for it to be Zeno's compatible
Zenos is Garlean. He can't channel aether.
cinder badger
Zenos didn't much care for technology which is why he chose the katana as his fighting weapon in the first place
tiny wind
do you think zenos has pictures of the WoL hung up in his private room
cinder badger
Relying on technology ruins the thrill for him
maiden lodge
Zenos didn't much care for technology which is why he chose the katana as his fi...
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
Pray remind me where he keeps his three katanas?
And why?
cinder badger
@maiden lodge it doesn't matter where he sheathes them they were normal katanas
maiden lodge
Well one, they aren't normal katanas
And two, it matters where he stores them
'ZENOS DOESNT USE TECHNOLOGY!!!!'
'Ahahahaha golfbag go brrrrrr'
woeful dagger
What if the new job uses Maiming but also is a limited job 
heady shadow
that golf bag does go brr
maiden lodge
He uses that to recharge and store aether in the weapons so they can do the things his weapons do, and so he can access their magical force.
heady shadow
^
maiden lodge
It's not just there for style. He remains Garlean, and he needs that to access the aether in his swords--which contain the power of the Kami.
heady shadow
it's almost like gunbreaker tech
maiden lodge
He had a normal katana--it broke. He replaced it.
cinder badger
He remains garlean which is why he burned down his entire Empire
maiden lodge
He remains garlean which is why he burned down his entire Empire
Well his body didn't suddenly become a fuckin Hrothgar did it
rough kestrel
I mean now he is for all intents and purposes an Ascian
So he can probably do anything they (we) can do
maiden lodge
I mean now he is for all intents and purposes an Ascian
That's the echo, that's not the same thing.
heady shadow
they just call him that because he can body jump but afaik thats echo shit
rough kestrel
But do you believe it's just the Resonant? I don't think it is, I think he is a complete soul now.
Or a soul Chimera
Whatever you want to call him
Elidibus couldn't even control a fake version of him
cinder badger
@rough kestrel quiet don't say such things they might push their glasses up to their foreheads and say "WELL ACKTUALLY"
maiden lodge
But do you believe it's just the Resonant? I don't think it is, I think he is a ...
Of course it's the Resonant.
What do you think the Ascian's powers are? Do you think Lahabrea was just fucking about when he literally told us it's the Echo? Elidibus?
How many times do they need to teach you this lesson old man
The echo is the ascian powers is the echo. Zenos getting those powers is him learning to use the same echo the ascians have.
cinder badger
God I need to get away from RPGs for a while maybe even video games in general these conversations really give me headaches
If you can even call them conversations
rough kestrel
I think the thing with Zenos is the Resonant has compounded onto something else that neither he nor anyone else understood.
maiden lodge
Fuckin hell he even tells us WE don't properly use our echo or even have a clue when he uses the Echo to take over Shinryu after telling us he's using the echo to take over Shinryu
cinder badger
Go outside and throw a ball or something.
unique verge
I mean, the key factor with Zenos is the thing we have no clue about yet. Why he see's the Final Days, why Fandaniel was surprised by that and why he thought that Emet had "found a way". Exactly what did Emet do to engineer Zenos.
Resonance doesnt answer that question
maiden lodge
I mean, the key factor with Zenos is the thing we have no clue about yet. Why h...
It doesn't, but it's moot.
Elidibus tells us exactly what Ascian powers...the power of the Ancients is.
The echo and it are the same thing.
obsidian pagoda
Whatever Emet did couldn't have hinged on the Resonance to activate
woeful dagger
I mean, the key factor with Zenos is the thing we have no clue about yet. Why h...
We'll surely figure all that out when we learn what the towers do in 5.5/5.55
maiden lodge
So someone using the powers of the Ancients--Ascian powers, is using the echo.
unique verge
Yes, im aware that the echo is resonance is ascian powers blah blah blah
maiden lodge
Yes, im aware that the echo is resonance is ascian powers blah blah blah
I know, it's addressing the previous thread
unique verge
But thats no different than Fordola or Misija and they're not some planet-ending threat
woeful dagger
But thats no different than Fordola or Misija and they're not some planet-ending...
Yet.
subtle pasture
Arguably it’s more likely Resonance isn’t just Echo emulation, but emulating an Unsundered soul
Or rather, that Zenos is nearer the latter than the former
woeful dagger
Arguably it’s more likely Resonance isn’t just Echo emulation, but emulating an ...
Maybe not emulating but literally unsundering a soul?
maiden lodge
But thats no different than Fordola or Misija and they're not some planet-ending...
Correct, but Zenos is tryhard with the echo. Not everyone can do the same shit ascians do, but he's not the first to pull ascian tricks out of his ass.
Sahagin Priest.
woeful dagger
Forcing the other parts of the soul out of their respective Shards and forcibly dragging them into the Source and into their host soul.
unique verge
Im aware of that. Im just saying that (Resonance/Echo/"Ascian Powers") are not whats interesting about Zenos in terms of what threat he truly presents
subtle pasture
Not quite, I’d imagine, since it’s using raw life energy and not the shard’s other shards
maiden lodge
What's more likely, the Resonant is some new fangled megaecho--or Zenos yae Chadvus is just Chadding a skill like he chads every skill?
woeful dagger
Not quite, I’d imagine, since it’s using raw life energy and not the shard’s oth...
"raw life energy" just means Aether. Everything is aether.
And moving between Shards takes aether as well. But I am sure we'll learn more once 5.5 drops.
cinder badger
What are Garleans then? Are they even sundered ancients or something else? Zeno's only had the echo because he was artificially imbued with it unless it was just very very very dormant within him and the imbuement only allowed him to awaken it
subtle pasture
Quite, this is still not the other shards of the person in question, I’m saying Resonance substitutes the gaps with the aether of sacrifices
woeful dagger
What are Garleans then? Are they even sundered ancients or something else? Zeno...
Garleans are like any other mortal race, they just cannot detect Aether so cannot manipulate it.
obsidian pagoda
Garleans the race had existed prior to the Empire
maiden lodge
What are Garleans then? Are they even sundered ancients or something else? Zeno...
They're an aetherblocked race that originally came from Goug. We don't know anything else about them
woeful dagger
But because Garleans couldn't use Aether, they were far easier to manipulate and is why Emet Selch chose them to found his empire.
cinder badger
Goug is a funny name. I'd be pretty pissed off and wanting to conquer the world if I came from a place like that
maiden lodge
In terms of where they come from I mean
gaunt star
I thought since he's had constant visions of the final days all his life that he was implied to have already had the echo
subtle pasture
The Republic had barely thrived in their mountains, constantly battling their neighbors who saw the struggling, magically inept nation as easy pickings
gaunt star
I know he also got resonance from Krile
cinder badger
So what were they named originally? "Gougians? Gouganites?"
gaunt star
Gougan
cinder badger
I prefer Gouganites
subtle pasture
Same tbh
unique verge
Lets just simplify it and call them Goons
obsidian pagoda
I know he also got resonance from Krile
IIRC Krile was the "template" for Fordola, so they reshaped aether form those prisoners to "match" Krile's and implant it
cinder badger
Goonies
subtle pasture
Yeah, the source of Zenos’ Resonance is unknown
cinder badger
So which one is chunk
woeful dagger
Gougastines
unique verge
Yeah, the source of Zenos’ Resonance is unknown
Do we know when he became Resonant? That might offer an answer.
cinder badger
I don't know if I would be Zenos' friend anymore knowing that he is a Gougastine
subtle pasture
Though, from what I recall, wasn’t stealing Krile a breakthrough in Aulus’ research?
IE, implying she’s the first echoblessed he got his hands on
I might be misremembering that.
obsidian pagoda
Did Zenos get the Resonance before or after Fordola?
unique verge
It had to be before
subtle pasture
We learn of it after, but his skill says before, but, I wanna say Krile was Aulus’ first echo template
unique verge
Zenos dumpstered us twice with his unique abilities before Krile was a factor
obsidian pagoda
Cause as we can see from Fordola's Resonance, it kinda missed the mark in that she can't control it a lot of the time
cinder badger
Wouldn't they have tested on Fordola before giving it to Zenos?
woeful dagger
Presumably the entire reason Zenos was interested in Aulus was because he was hoping he could enhance his own Resonance, no?
subtle pasture
Krile’s echo is extremely sensitive, mind
maiden lodge
I don't know if I would be Zenos' friend anymore knowing that he is a Gougastine
Gougougougastine bored son of a Garly Queen; he was just waiting for this ennui to end
Gougougougastine The 'mald's thiccest death machine; we killed him once and now we're his friend
unique verge
he'd be the first to seize the power if it looked viable
That said, the reason i bring up the question of when he became resonant
subtle pasture
So Fordola got the juice but also got the double shot extra potency juice
woeful dagger
i don't remember, did Krile have her entire Echo drained?
obsidian pagoda
Maybe it will get answered in 6.0 or before
floral aurora
Trailer song out yet?
obsidian pagoda
i don't remember, did Krile have her entire Echo drained?
No you can't drain Echo like that
woeful dagger
Trailer song out yet?
Probably not til release with an orchestration scroll like ShB sadly
maiden lodge
Trailer song out yet?
probably not, it's not complete
obsidian pagoda
She's just the template, they were copying her aether signature
woeful dagger
No you can't drain Echo like that
Doesn't Elidibus drain our Echo with Ultima
err Lahabrea sorry
floral aurora
Song sounds awesome! I'm calling it, it will beat Shadowbringers
woeful dagger
So you can drain echo by having the echo person be forced to "survive" an attack, no?
subtle pasture
No, she didn’t lose her Echo, Resonance takes living aether and maps out an echoblessed’s aetherwaves, and imbues an emulation of those gifts into another
floral aurora
The song that is
woeful dagger
Not lose, have it drained. Like what happened to us against Ultima.
unique verge
is because it had to have happened in the last ~30 years or so, right? How many echo users have the Garleans even been able to track down and catch in that timeframe? Did any get nabbed in 1.0? I know in ARR Minfilia got taken but given the legion in question, Zenos wouldnt have access
cinder badger
You know just point me to a primal so I can kill it and then eat some grapes
gaunt star
Ultima was a direct intervention from hydaelyn
woeful dagger
is because it had to have happened in the last ~30 years or so, right? How many...
Can Garleans receive the Echo? Just because they cannot detect Aether does that mean they cannot hear Hydaelyn 🤔
unique verge
That's a fair question. I have no idea.
obsidian pagoda
Not lose, have it drained. Like what happened to us against Ultima.
Wasn't it draining the Blessing of Light, not the Echo?
ivory wolf
I don't think it drained the blessing, but rather Hydalin herself.
Because she was rather talkative during that scene
woeful dagger
Wasn't it draining the Blessing of Light, not the Echo?
That I cannot say.
obsidian pagoda
Don't make me run Prae just to find out lmao
subtle pasture
Against Ultima...? That was Hydaelyn shielding us from the blast, which severely hindered her as a result
ivory wolf
Lahabrea is also a stooge.
ivory wolf
Not an argument against him being wrong, I just want it mentioned.
floral aurora
Hydaelyn will reveal Zodiark's true form, I'm calling it!
obsidian pagoda
Blessing of Light and the Echo are different powers
Blessing = from Hydaelyn. Echo = triggered by starshower
subtle pasture
But yeah, Ultima was more than either, Hydaelyn actually intervened and spared us the worst of the blast
woeful dagger
Blessing of Light and the Echo are different powers
Did they know that at the time of Prae though 🤔
subtle pasture
The one and only time she has done so
obsidian pagoda
Did they know that at the time of Prae though 🤔
As in the dev? who knows but it's since been split and it has yet to clash with old canon
woeful dagger
You can just wave it away as a retcon but perhaps in their writing in 2.0 "her blessing" meant the Echo. But yeah, eh.
floral aurora
I do wonder is this the last melee job added to the game
woeful dagger
lol looking up prae got me to Mizzteq's 2013 guide to it.
It's nuts how different her guides were then to now
floral aurora
And MrHappy's
cinder badger
A Whip made with Alchemy
Just like the first Belmont
And we like hunt voidsent and shit
subtle pasture
The thing that confused us about the Blessing vs the Echo was moments like,
Garuda and Ifrit sourcing Hydaelyn as what was protecting us from tempering
floral aurora
To me only stuff left is a Bat, Whip, Scythe, Lightsaber and maybe a Chain Sickle
unique verge
I'm amazed a Prae guide exists
even in ARR who the hell needs a guide for that
honestly no
woeful dagger
She made a guide for every duty in the game pretty sure
unique verge
*now
obsidian pagoda
Garuda and Ifrit sourcing Hydaelyn as what was protecting us from tempering
That's cause of the whole Echo unlocked > you hear the "Hear Feel Think"
so they kept mistakenly attributing to that
subtle pasture
Why can’t I hurt Livia and what are these turrets for :(
cinder badger
The praetorium sucks
obsidian pagoda
SUCH DEVASTATION
floral aurora
I honestly needed guides for those 50 dungeons back in the day
woeful dagger
has anyone actually seen Ultima cast go off and what happens?
cinder badger
@obsidian pagoda this was 100% my intention
ivory wolf
Castrum sucks more because there ain't a fat xp boost at the end to make it worth it.
Ultima cast -> you die lmao
woeful dagger
well yeah
i meant the animation
unless it just goes black screen
that'd be lame, but also so SE
subtle pasture
Big blue pillar of light iirc
subtle pasture
Or a dome, it depends
subtle pasture
I’m still expecting us to learn Ultima actually isn’t originally a destructive magic, but is so now bc the Shards can’t sustain a spell of its caliber
warm bone
Sake>Sage
gaunt star
I remember doing prae once and killing ultima weapon so fast he didnt even cast ultima
That was a good time
woeful dagger
next Job is called Zenos. when we equip it our model changes to Zenos.
gaunt star
We all immediately went "hmm something is not quite right"
cinder badger
What if the new job just used a lead pipe as its weapon?
warm bone
Next limited job us cosplayer
Where we get the halloween thingy again where we can cos as other members
floral aurora
next Job is called Zenos. when we equip it our model changes to Zenos.
Some say we qre getting a Zenos job xD
gaunt star
Beating someone with a lead pipe would be fuckin funny
unique verge
Next limited job us cosplayer
Limited? I vote it gets its own special label, Lobotomized.
viscid monolith
I hope they learn from Blue Mage with the next limited job
gaunt star
Feels bad how red mage didnt get any love in stormblood trailer
viscid monolith
It has to be fun and fully realized at release
cinder badger
I want to kneecap zodiark with a lead pipe
floral aurora
Next limited job us cosplayer
That's Yakuza, SE wouldn't do us like that xD
viscid monolith
And not 2 years after release
gaunt star
Also was red mage teased in heavensward? Im trying to remember when alisiae pulled out her sword
unique verge
tbh im not sure another limited job is a good idea
Like, what purpose does another limited job serve
what can it possibly do better than BLU
viscid monolith
I can finally say Blue Mage feels fully realized at level 70 with 104 abilities
floral aurora
BLU should be the only limited job
gaunt star
It'd just be a reflavoured BLU
viscid monolith
It doesn't need to do anything better
It just has to have a gimmick that doesn't fit into regular parties
gaunt star
BEastmaster is just blue mage but you summon models that do their own ability instead of you doing it
ivory wolf
But what if I want to hit someone with that LB4 that elidibus used that one time.
Give me BLU 80
viscid monolith
Blue Mage's gimmick is that it can instant kill certain mobs and has endless CC
gaunt star
Its gonna be real fun
ivory wolf
imagine using Missile on Shiva
viscid monolith
And it has a few gimmick spells that bypass mechanics
ivory wolf
lmao
gaunt star
Blu's lore gimmick is that it copies spells from beasts in the world
And then something something
cinder badger
Screw it. Manderville (MAN) will be the new melee DPS
gaunt star
Masked carnivale
viscid monolith
The Masked Carnival is literally the least interesting part of Blue Mage
gaunt star
Technically missile would work on the adds
Cuz u can stun and slow and whatnot
Icelit dragonsong is gonna be a cluster fuck though
viscid monolith
Missile works on the adds but you're better off obliterating them with aoe while hitting Shiva.
viscid monolith
Oh you mean E8S
viscid monolith
Fuck that add phase
It took us like a combined 2 hours to get right
Add in that we still messed up Light Rampant
gaunt star
Not scholar struggling on one side cuz there were 2 back to back waves of electric adds
Omfg
Lights rampant
Dude
They're gonna know
I wanna go in again as blue mage just to revel in the salt
gaunt star
Also was red mage teased in heavensward? Im trying to remember when alisiae pull...
She uses her blade of light vs the warriors of darkness in 3.4
Blue mages having to grab aggro immediately after cutscene so they dont all die
gaunt star
She uses her blade of light vs the warriors of darkness in 3.4
Pog
silver raptor
So hype for this new stardew valley mode
viscid monolith
Hot take
Alisae was not a Red Mage preview
She used a gld fighting stance and auto attack animation. She didn't even cast spells
silver raptor
I only just now noticed she was a red mage 2 days ago in shadowbringers
gaunt star
ivory wolf
"Charge me, doctor"
gaunt star
Damn
ivory wolf
That's basically what she did
gaunt star
Her pulling out the sword was cool though
ivory wolf
oh absolutely
viscid monolith
Or at least that's how it was in 3.4. IDK if they changed her to an actual Red Mage after 4.0 for that instance.
gaunt star
I doubt they chanhed it
dim sigil
So your saying alisae was a gld in hw
viscid monolith
Yes
gaunt star
She was coded as gld because rdm didn't exist
Like how yugiri is/was coded is miqote
before hw
dim sigil
Was her sword unique?
gaunt star
God.... I cant wait for the stat squish to break something. My money's on SSS
dim sigil
Like a rdm one
ivory wolf
Alisae didn't use a sword before SB, I think
The sword of light used was a bigass attack
dim sigil
I heard unsync farming will be werid with stat squish
ivory wolf
That's what I'm most worried about actually
viscid monolith
I heard unsync farming will be werid with stat squish
Yes it
Will
Dps will be lower
dim sigil
Better get my dogs now
gaunt star
Yugiri still coded is miqo for her pre-hw stuff 
viscid monolith
dim sigil
Current yugiri or just hooded
viscid monolith
Dps will be relatively lower I mean
gaunt star
Just hooded
viscid monolith
Our dps will scale more linearly from 50-80 instead of exponentially
gaunt star
Her later appearances are au ra
silver raptor
You think we'll get new species?
viscid monolith
No
ivory wolf
doubt
gaunt star
Still an exponential increase, just a flatter one
dim sigil
No new races
silver raptor
Okie dokie
dim sigil
Id love more but it wont happen
floral aurora
Some still want to be able to put hats on bunnies
dim sigil
Just like i understand job quests were getting way to bloated and way to much work i still miss them
floral aurora
And I want my lala shorter
gaunt star
The only possible new races we would ever get would be manbunny/femhroth and some ppl hold out hope for them but I seriously doubt it
dim sigil
manbunny
floral aurora
Girllion
gaunt star
Going into ShB they said they wanted to make only one new race, but compromised by making female viera instead of female hrothgar because it's the same amount of work
silver raptor
Yeah I just got to shadowbringers. I was a bit puzzled that the talking book was gone and we were helping random crystarium npc
gaunt star
Two skeletons, two sets of animations, etc
ivory wolf
those would be good days.
maiden lodge
Dps will be lower
Yoshi P also mentioned this is a challenge they're looking to address, knowing it could be an issue
gaunt star
And I feel like they wouldn't want to do male viera without fem hroth but fem hroth is a horrible value proposition because who would even play it
viscid monolith
Yoshi P also mentioned this is a challenge they're looking to address, knowing i...
I actually don't mind. It keeps old fights a bit more challenging since you won't skip as much.
silver raptor
I get the sexual dimorphism but I would love some fem au ra attributes on male
ruby gate
They said it may make unsynced difficulties harder and that they'll think of a way to fix this. My guess is that during undersized party ONLY you may get some form of a damage/healing buff is my guess. Maybe even an HP buff at the beginning
viscid monolith
Of course the they could just tack a 20% echo on all unsynced content or something
maiden lodge
I actually don't mind. It keeps old fights a bit more challenging since you won'...
Me either, it's a nonproblem in my mind, but they did say they'd look at how to fix it. Probably through special echo or something
floral aurora
Long as I can solo Nidhogg im good
sterile moat
https://i.imgur.com/3txUPcJ.png
i just wonder how that will affect unsync stuff
cinder badger
Okay so I was just watching a little bit of work to game and they brought something up just passively that actually made me think just a tiny little bit and I'll keep an open mind about this I'm not saying this is the answer only a possibility because right now we're all just theorizing.
sterile moat
mainly BLU
maiden lodge
Worst case scenario, the faceroll is less faceroll but still faceroll; not a major harrowing issue
gaunt star
watching a little bit of work to game
Mistake
woeful dagger
Can any 80 Jobs solo Bismark atm? my GNB can't and I kinda wanna farm it
silver raptor
Anyone else want more egi glamours. Now that alphinaud is orphaning his cute carbuncles. There isn't a better time to add them to the glamours
floral aurora
And since they said 51-80 content I think only arr stuff might be a issue soloing now
woeful dagger
I die to the 2 add phase
sterile moat
yea bismark is easy to solo
gaunt star
Bismarck is soloable if you have good burst
sterile moat
blu makes it a joke
woeful dagger
sorry, Bismark Extreme I should have specified if that matters
viscid monolith
Save your burst for the add phase
maiden lodge
bismarck was a joke last expansion
ruby gate
@viscid monolith It could be something like that. But remember that all numbers, including bosses are getting a number squish too. So I personally think it's gonna be more of a 5-10% echo stack start up
Chat moves faster then I originally anticipated
floral aurora
Lol
maiden lodge
<@151787892346322945> It could be something like that. But remember that all num...
oh no instead of facerolling with shb numbers I'll face roll with the sb numbers I facerolled with---except i'll be 90 and back to shb numbers
silver raptor
Your profile icon is adorable @ruby gate
unborn lantern
I saw Siegfried in the phantom train when a ghost caught me
Idk if its an easter egg
gaunt star
yea
balmy mesa
Our dps will scale more linearly from 50-80 instead of exponentially
1% per level rather than the old 5%, I think?
sterile moat
this means Sabin and Cyan were the ghosts at the end of Phantom Train
those were cyan wife and child
gaunt star
He said that as an example, it's not actually 5% per level
Current growth is like 0.75% per ilvl
unborn lantern
oh yea
cinder badger
So Brian was talking more about the quote itself which was "the filth and the Fury"
Then the two were talking about the last two bosses on Heroes Gauntlet: Necromancer and Berserker.
So "The Filth (Necro) and the Fury (Berserker)" COULD BE, not IS mind you, the actually tip off.
gaunt star
You roughly double in power from the end of one expac and then get 50% stronger from there til the end of that one
Or overall ~triple in power every expac
maiden lodge
You roughly double in power from the end of one expac and then get 50% stronger ...
it's more than that my dude
unique verge
So Brian was talking more about the quote itself which was "the filth and the Fu...
Dont they actually each have an ability with that word in the name too?
maiden lodge
Comes to about 4x, give or take
ruby gate
oh no instead of facerolling with shb numbers I'll face roll with the sb numbers...
I doubt that honestly since it seems they're changing gear itself, not the formula. So an example they said would be if you did 50k damage with anything, you'll more then likely deal 10k damage instead. So numbers are getting crunched to 1/5 of their original values wherever possible. So chances are likely that even if you get to level 90, you'd still be roughly only doing 15k damage without crits. And MAYBE 30k with them. The damage FEEL tho will keep the same pace however so we'll see what that ends up at
gaunt star
TIL that 5.5k times 4 is 15k
maiden lodge
I doubt that honestly since it seems they're changing gear itself, not the formu...
Relative to bosses that's still a heckin lot. But going down to 15k next expansion just means they'll have to do it again for the expansion after.
viscid monolith
Healer?
deft burrow
we're going to have smaller numbers than end of SB
its looking like end of HW numbers
gaunt star
And my hp went from 78k to 213k which is also very clearly quadrupling
maiden lodge
TIL that 5.5k times 4 is 15k
'my personal performance is the metric we go by'
deft burrow
HP will also be 1/5 right?
gaunt star
99 then, 99 now ¯_(ツ)_/¯
deft burrow
if you do 20k dps ur gonna be going down to 4k dps
gaunt star
Tank
deft burrow
idk how i feel about that
maiden lodge
Fair
Tank's a different beast, that's gotten recalculated and recontextualized.
DPS is about 4x
ruby gate
Relative to bosses that's still a heckin lot. But going down to 15k next expans...
Yeah that's still a lot. Especially when boss HP pools are gonna be 1/5 their amounts too. So theoretically nothing will change except numbers being smaller
deft burrow
yeah
woven escarp
I mean, 400 million HP is just bloated as fuck lmao
deft burrow
2 billion hp for DR bosses
woven escarp
they really wrote themselves into a corner letting the numbers blow up like disgaea post-game
maiden lodge
Yeah that's still a lot. Especially when boss HP pools are gonna be 1/5 their am...
The problem is that if you're edging overflow errors at 20k, you're edging overflow errors at 15k--it's less than one bit difference
tiny wind
higher numbers = more dopamine 
viscid monolith
Hmm
gaunt star
Super padded BLM got 10k in Alphascape pre echo
deft burrow
higher numbers = more dopamine <:jnbKappa:629141276381675520>
this
gaunt star
Call it more like 9k reasonable "actual" dps
woven escarp
honestly, I liked it better in the earlier content
gaunt star
Top aDPS right now for e9s is 27k
maiden lodge
Super padded BLM got 10k in Alphascape pre echo
Yeah, but we don't use the same metric any more. That metric is no longer measured
gaunt star
Which again is roughly triple
woven escarp
when you were like "wow man, I got 350 dps, big baller"
maiden lodge
aDPS isn't the same metric.
cinder badger
@unique verge sadly Necromancer does not have an attack with filth and its name unless it's written in the Japanese text but Berserker does have a fury attack
woven escarp
yeah
deft burrow
Won't stuff just scale back up to being what we're at now with future expansions? They'll just have to do the same thing later on and cut numbers again.
cinder badger
Still Necromancer can be associated with filth
woven escarp
hitting 1k as a pld was big dick energy
sterile moat
YOU CAN'T MAKE ME TURN ON FOES BALLAD
viscid monolith
1000 damage Full Thrust
ruby gate
The problem is that if you're edging overflow errors at 20k, you're edging overf...
Well they said 50k is actually something that's often achieved by players. Or my understanding of it at least. Now I'm not at Shadowbringers yet, but I can see the numbers being 50k DPS at that point for crits
sterile moat
IT MAKES ME DO LESS DPS
viscid monolith
unique verge
The only downside, and this is a matter of opinion, is that as you shrink the numbers down, the differences between players become less distinct.
gaunt star
The dude had like 90% balance uptime so take away the 10% from balance
Leaves him around 9k
tiny wind
YOU CAN'T MAKE ME TURN ON FOES BALLAD
lmao
maiden lodge
Won't stuff just scale back up to being what we're at now with future expansions...
Eventually yes, this is unavoidable. variables have finite space. There is no fix for that problem.
sterile moat
I'LL LET YOU KNOW I DO 1000 DPS PER SECOND
deft burrow
Yep
viscid monolith
Well they said 50k is actually something that's often achieved by players. Or my...
Pretty sure they mean 50k hits
sterile moat
woven escarp
The only downside, and this is a matter of opinion, is that as you shrink the nu...
true to an extent, but at the same time there was a clear difference between shitters and competent players even in 2.0
where 350-400 dps was big baller
maiden lodge
Well they said 50k is actually something that's often achieved by players. Or my...
No, he said 'if you hit for 50k now, you'll hit for 10k after.' REfering to an individual cast.
Yoshi P does not talk about dps numbers directly.
unique verge
Oh, no doubt
deft burrow
Your damage will be divided by 5
woven escarp
you don't need to add more zeroes to separate the wheat from the chaff lmao
unborn lantern
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUezOLsrqIg remember....
unique verge
true to an extent, but at the same time there was a clear difference between shi...
The only upside in comparison, if that's your mindset, is that 2.0 fights were able to be designed in such a way that hitting the DPS numbers wasnt the hard part. You were already hitting them if you were there.
sterile moat
they'll probably just add a divide by something after every calculation formula and call it a day
ruby gate
No, he said 'if you hit for 50k now, you'll hit for 10k after.' REfering to an ...
Fair point
woven escarp
the example yoshi-p gave was for his max geared blm hitting a fire 4
viscid monolith
The only upside in comparison, if that's your mindset, is that 2.0 fights were a...
What no
woven escarp
one cast
deft burrow
without crit or dh
woven escarp
ARR had very hard dps checks, even for alliance raids
maiden lodge
The only downside, and this is a matter of opinion, is that as you shrink the nu...
Untrue. Damage acts as a proportion to the boss. If I do twice your damage, and the boss dies in 3 minutes, if they lower the damage, the boss still dies in 3 minutes, and I'm still doing twice your damage.
It's a scalar transform.
viscid monolith
Not true
woven escarp
people forgot that there were actually things to do in labyrinth and syrcus
deft burrow
ARR you had like 5 abilities to use
unique verge
When referencing Coils
viscid monolith
Not true by a long shot
viscid monolith
When referencing Coils
Not true by a long shot
maiden lodge
And yes, we had shitter dps in ARR it was just less accurate than now.
sterile moat
ARR you had like 5 abilities to use
not when you played on ARR
deft burrow
LOL
unique verge
*Not true by a long shot*
idk, your server experience must have been different then.
woven escarp
drg was just cruelly designed until the 2.3 rework
sterile moat
hit your positionals to continue combo
unique verge
drg was just cruelly designed until the 2.3 rework
Can confirm as an ARR DRG main
sterile moat
woven escarp
hit your positionals to start your combo
maiden lodge
You had some dungeons that were fast, and some that were slow af, just as now, because of dps. That's never changed. And the biggest reason dps could be bad back then was the same as now--not hitting buttons.
Except people knew less back then.
woven escarp
and if you missed them fuck your buffs too
wew
hope you like dying to incidental raid damage
unique verge
I have to say, i miss some of the old animations
viscid monolith
Healers didn't embrace doing damage in ARR
cinder badger
Still I think it's an interesting Theory.
Filth being Necro
Fury being Berserker
And it just being a tip-off not an actual merger of the two.
It kind of plays into other people's theory of a Scythe wielder with the Scythe representing the Filth clue but also the melee painbringer representing the Fury
unique verge
Heavy Thrust might have pissed me off to no end in terms of its existence, but i loved the look of it
viscid monolith
They still did damage but like, not as seriously
woven escarp
heavy thrust always kind of sucked
maiden lodge
Healers didn't embrace doing damage in ARR
They were starting to, especially scholars leveraging Lustrate's stat agnostic heal.
viscid monolith
You look at the T5 world first and healers are standing around so much
woven escarp
lustrate being a % based heal was getting hard nerfed no matter what lmao
unique verge
My coil groups in ARR, the SCH was DPS'ing their ass off
gaunt star
People tryna galaxy brain yoship's shirt when he went with a stealth pun one year while saying the answer to it out loud
maiden lodge
You look at the T5 world first and healers are standing around so much
That's a couple months after release though, by SCoB, 'healers should do damage' was established.
cinder badger
Maybe it holds two dual sickles and goes nuts on enemies with pure rage
gaunt star
And his other "cryptic" hints being "Bunny+racecar" and "Red mage run through a thesaurus"
lime estuary
New melee is probably based on Sice from Type 0
maiden lodge
Maybe it holds two dual sickles and goes nuts on enemies with pure rage
kama slasher go
forest magnet
And his other "cryptic" hints being "Bunny+racecar" and "Red mage run through a ...
wasn't his RDM hint a Scarlet Witch t-shirt
unique verge
Still I think it's an interesting Theory.
Filth being Necro
Fury being Berserke...
Just...to take that step further. I saw this from a point of ignorance, but were those two bosses supposed to represent a different FF game / would they have been from a different FF game
gaunt star
wasn't his RDM hint a Scarlet Witch t-shirt
yeah
forest magnet
that's not cryptic
gaunt star
That's what I'm saying
maiden lodge
Right, but Samurai was.
forest magnet
But he had a Samurai = Sam Raimi lmao
gaunt star
He also said oh hey I like Sam Raimi spiderman movies SAMRAMAI isn't that funny
cinder badger
@unique verge I'm not sure. I know berserker has been a job in previous titles, Necro was only a job in a remake of V
maiden lodge
He also said oh hey I like Sam Raimi spiderman movies SAMRAMAI isn't that funny
I mean, by that same logic 'I'm hot' could be a clue
viscid monolith
He also said oh hey I like Sam Raimi spiderman movies SAMRAMAI isn't that funny
I thought it meant Blue Mage
gaunt star
lime estuary
He wore literally two reaper shirts. I think its obvious what the weapon will be, but the actual job could be a number of things including something original.
viscid monolith
Get bit by spider and get spider power
sterile moat
the no comment shirt might be mime
viscid monolith
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
maiden lodge
the no comment shirt might be mime
a job that does nothing inherently go team
sterile moat
yea
viscid monolith
Mime as a full job to mirror Blue Mage
maiden lodge
They're not going to introduce 'does nothing on its own' as a job
WHat would mimic DO?
lime estuary
Some sort of reaper who protects the balance of the lifestream.
maiden lodge
Just mash 1 ad copy your dps's rotation?
viscid monolith
Be better than Blue Mage in every way
Like in lore
Martin got fucking annihilated
maiden lodge
'A job with no abilities is better than' anything is a shittake, bro
unique verge
That's because Martin is a shitty BLU
viscid monolith
Martin isn't shitty
viscid monolith
LEAVE MARTIN ALONE
unique verge
Shittier than we are by a mile
maiden lodge
That's the joke
sterile moat
martin is a jobber for the show
maiden lodge
He's shit and we have to keep bailing him out
viscid monolith
Shittier than we are by a mile
You know damn well that isn't fair
sterile moat
though hope next blu quest is more than "martin jobbed, please fix it wol"
maiden lodge
You know damn well that isn't fair
He's shittier than Azuro the Fourth even
viscid monolith
We don't know that
maiden lodge
though hope next blu quest is more than "martin jobbed, please fix it wol"
Fuck I don't, I think that's a great dynamic for our scungy grifter
maiden lodge
We don't know that
She literally walked up to Ultros and bodies him, HARD.
That immediately puts her above Martyn
woven escarp
🤔
viscid monolith
Did Martin lose to Ultros? I don't remember them fighting.
maiden lodge
Did Martin lose to Ultros? I don't remember them fighting.
Has Martyn won to anyone?
woven escarp
martyn is only as shit as the story requires him to be for the punchline
viscid monolith
Pretty sure Martin killed a Chimera on his own
sterile moat
martyn is the comedic relief guy that when it matters he's the strongest of the group
woven escarp
nah, he's not stronger than the WOL because you're the rey of the story
maiden lodge
How good can he be, he didn't even get the Mirage set and that shits free
unique verge
Martyn just needs to stop being forced to lose every story fight in order to propel us into the same fight.
woven escarp
but he's shit because him losing is funny
viscid monolith
I want him to win just one important fight on screen
woven escarp
always trying to grift someone and getting his shit kicked in
unique verge
Like, find a different way to get us to fight something than "Martyn fucked it up again"
maiden lodge
Yeah, that's just it--he's not good at Blue Maging, which is why us being Azuro the Second is a good joke
viscid monolith
He almost beat Siegfried
maiden lodge
He even looks like a questionable scuzlord
maiden lodge
so did lyse lmao
Martyn is Lyse-tier confirmed
unique verge
Yeah but Lyse was a case of being outsmarted. Not a high bar
unique verge
Martyn's telling of the story involved him getting beat up basically
woven escarp
I mean, you can't really put "outsmarted" as a negative against lyse
because the rocks outside rhalgr's reach have more braincells than she does
maiden lodge
I mean, you can't really put "outsmarted" as a negative against lyse
Yeah she got outsmarted 7 times before breakfast!
cinder badger
You can't rule out any of the possibilities when it comes to his cryptic messages. Sure "Temple" being the directors name could be the clue but the Sam Raimi thing wasn't his only trick. As mentioned before with the Scarlet Witch and Bugs Bunny shirts
viscid monolith
Martyn did put up a good fight against Gogo but he didn't know his secret. We only beat Gogo because we knew how his art worked.
maiden lodge
because the rocks outside rhalgr's reach have more braincells than she does
Not the ones outside Summerford though, the marauders keep those cleverboiz in check
woven escarp
they can't keep getting away with this
viscid monolith
That being said
cinder badger
He's not going to use the same tactic over and over and over and over because then it becomes easier to solve. He's always going to switch it up and keep us thinking
woven escarp
I'm fairly certain the new job is called reaper but I don't think it's a scythe job
viscid monolith
Gogo is the real Warrior of Light someone send this man to fight Zodiark
cinder badger
It's like playing a game of chess with the man.... a very Twisted game of chess
woven escarp
that's a little too pat, plus they said drk didn't get a scythe because of botanist
¯_(ツ)_/¯
maiden lodge
He's not going to use the same tactic over and over and over and over because th...
Yes, after he mentions, casually, that his shirts have been job hints in the past, he changes his shirt during a job preview, and this means he's being crafty and not previewing a job.
unique verge
Scythe's are also, frankly, stupid weapons.
viscid monolith
I assume Gogo is from FF5?
unique verge
They're completely impractical
maiden lodge
I assume Gogo is from FF5?
This one is FF6 but with FF5's gimmick... kinda
viscid monolith
The flare and holy he used are same animation as Exdeath's
cinder badger
@maiden lodge that can make sense to considering the shirt he was wearing before said no comment
viscid monolith
So I assume yes
chilly plover
so the new class is garlean themed
ivory wolf
That's because scythes are farming implements.
woven escarp
the only time I've seen a scythe be useful in a video game is guild wars 1
chilly plover
hear me out
maiden lodge
Yeah, 'no comment' was the troll
woven escarp
the dervish had a free cleave with their auto attacks because of the scythe they used
😌
chilly plover
what if the melee dps is gunhammer
maiden lodge
And then he changed his shirt.
sterile moat
GUNBOOK
cinder badger
@maiden lodge yes he did
maiden lodge
COmplete with a scripted segment where Koji Fox points out his shirt has changed, and then they read the comments on job speculation
chilly plover
or some other tech shit
gundagger gunstaff gunfist lmao
wait gunfist is just gun
cinder badger
@maiden lodge it's funny because he asked the question "What's a Necromancer?" When spectral necromancer was one of the bosses in his 5.3 dungeon.
chilly plover
for his neutral special, yoshi P fires a gun
maiden lodge
ACtually ironically 'gunfist' is ACTUALLY an irl thing too
chilly plover
yeah ive seen it
maiden lodge
<@275781124872077315> it's funny because he asked the question "What's a Necroma...
Yeah that's trolling, I love it
cinder badger
@maiden lodge I know it's hilarious
chilly plover
knuckle dusters with small firearms
maiden lodge
But livia's gunfists are more underarm gunblades
cinder badger
Still I kind of love the theory I mentioned with the filth representing Necromancer and the fury representing Berserker so maybe Heroes gauntlet tipped us off to Something in the works without it being an actual Necromancer or a beserker
unique verge
livia's is kinda like gbr blade but on arms
goober blade?
maiden lodge
livia's is kinda like gbr blade but on arms
No, not really. It's blade, and a gun. It's not a trigger that sends aether down the blade to make it explode.
woven escarp
necromancer never going to happen aaaAAAAAA
chilly plover
the gunbreaker gunbladr
cinder badger
Because that would be clever
chilly plover
but like they gorilla glued it to her gloves
woven escarp
there's what, 15 years of FF MMO developer comments saying that players will never get necromancer?
maiden lodge
Garlean gunbl... eugh.... things... are just guns on or in things, that act as normal weapons or normal guns
cinder badger
We know it would be something along those lines but we don't have a name which means it could be something original to the franchise
woven escarp
SE even developed an entirely new fucking job (puppetmaster) because people kept begging for necromancer and they didn't want to add an evil-type job
unique verge
DRK is the closest you're gonna get to "evil type"
chilly plover
gunbook is just that one dude from jojo who gets a gun out of a book with his stand
maiden lodge
Also, yes, this was a real weapon
unique verge
and that is anti-hero, not "evil"
cinder badger
I did actually use a word earlier that would make a cool sounding name but I'm not going to hold my breath on it: Painbringer
chilly plover
there's gun pencils too, and gun pens
maiden lodge
lawful neutral
neither lawful nor neutral.
Their opposition to the law as a moral stance makes them chaotic. The fact they fight for those they care for as a power source makes them good.
They're not 'lawful neutral.'
'lawful' doesn't mean 'does things for a reason'
maiden lodge
No it doesn't.
woven escarp
there's a method to their madness
cinder badger
I've read some of the Corsair theories which were kind of silly.
So apparently because the documentary is about the sex pistols they drew the conclusion that it will be a pirate job.... what?
ivory wolf
I'm for it.
maiden lodge
It's a philosophical difference, meaning does one believe in individual freedom or society duty; whether for the common good, or as a tool for power.
worn forge
Corsair would never work due to its systems
woven escarp
🤔 you mean the part where drk is literally a "follow the goddamn law you shitbirds" mentality
doesn't make them lawful
chilly plover
didn't expect that one
gaunt star
People got too imaginative before they saw the second shirt and heavy implication that it uses maiming
maiden lodge
🤔 you mean the part where drk is literally a "follow the goddamn law you shitbi...
The part where they murder the actual lawful representatives of the law makes them kinda not lawful, yeah
cinder badger
@worn forge I never going to say never when it comes to jobs because there are many jobs that we have now that people claimed would not work
chilly plover
lmao imagine a joey wheeler class
maiden lodge
Fighting corrupt law doesn't make you lawful.
chilly plover
its just all dice rolls
unique verge
Wikipedia says Kawaiin is correct on this one.
woven escarp
imagine thinking corrupt clergymen and politicians are justified law
maiden lodge
IT's almost like there's an entire class based around that called the Liberator
cinder badger
like Red Mage dancer and Sage
unique verge
"The original version of D&D allowed players to choose among three alignments when creating a character: lawful, implying honor and respect for society's rules; chaotic, implying rebelliousness and individualism; and neutral, seeking a balance between the extremes."
worn forge
AST had rng buffs and it got shanked in an alleyway and stripped of its rng
chilly plover
if you roll all 6s you can one cycle the raid boss
gaunt star
People who still think the second grim reaper shirt is teasing a maiming-wearing corsair are clowns though
worn forge
Corsair’s potency literally comes from dicerolls, imagine if Trick Attack was only 1% cuz uwu I rolled a 1
the community would lose their shit
cinder badger
I really don't mean to reply to myself but constantly trying to keep track of and type shit on my phone it's very daunting and I don't have my computer up right now
chilly plover
man thats a lot of analysing going on here
woven escarp
corsair's rolls had a baseline potency unless you fucked up phantom roll
maiden lodge
Jeffrey Dahlmer for example, would be chaotic evil. He doesn't care about order, law, or what is ethical. He cared about eating boys.
woven escarp
and then it had a negative effect
worn forge
or rolled an unlucky number
chilly plover
does yoshi p actually hint us to the new jobs or are you guys just fake 5heading
woven escarp
yeah, but unlucky didn't make them worthless
the only way to be punished was to bust on phantom roll
unique verge
does yoshi p actually hint us to the new jobs or are you guys just fake 5heading
He actually historically does but tbh i think he's trolling this time
maiden lodge
He's not trolling, Yoshi P's got a history of doing this.
gaunt star
talls about melee obs
jeffrey dahmer
:Belmo:
woven escarp
the fact he had three different shirts this time but there are only two jobs confirmed for end walker means he's just trolling lmao
unique verge
why wouldnt he its 2021
Wrong. Its 2020 (Savage)
maiden lodge
This is how he teases shit, to get us speculating, and to start a dialog.
chilly plover
isnt it because he has a history that he would mislead just to troll?
maiden lodge
isnt it because he has a history that he would mislead just to troll?
No COmment is how Yoshi P trolls.
gaunt star
He could just be teasing Zenos new weapon or something too
cinder badger
@woven escarp he didn't have three different shirts you're taking the one he was wearing during the live letter way too seriously
maiden lodge
The Filth and the Fury is what he does after he trolls.
cinder badger
The live letter is different from the actual showcase
gaunt star
He trolled with the first shirt IMO but then the second one meant something
woven escarp
you think he doesn't know people would be like "oh shit he changed his shirt, what could it mean"
maiden lodge
The live letter's heckin scripted too, there's no way they'd spend time on the t-shirt and then actually read the speculation live if it were not something they wanted us to speculate on.
chilly plover
hmmmm yes indeed
unique verge
Speculation builds hype, so yes, they want people speculating
maiden lodge
Yoshi P doesn't fucking troll us in that way
gaunt star
They threw the name Necromancer out there the many times during the announcement that I've lost all hope for it to actually be Necromancer
maiden lodge
He never has, its not his style.
worn forge
what Angy said, for it to be THAT on the nose is unlikely
chilly plover
i'll be waiting for the google doc with a full analysis
maiden lodge
They threw the name Necromancer out there the many times during the announcement...
anyone who had hope it was necromancer for even a second before the liveletter are playing themselves, they said they'll never do it.
unique verge
Hmmm
gaunt star
Yeah it was only if you knew the director of the spiderman movie
That templar one was pretty big brain
unique verge
Speaking of The Filth And The Fury
maiden lodge
Yeah it was only if you knew the director of the spiderman movie
director
unique verge
couldnt help but notice when i looked up its Wiki article
gaunt star
*director*
Oooh lemme fix
serene crest
Tobeymancer 
maiden lodge
Though the image of heckin Ted Raimi playing spiderman is halarious
unique verge
that the first song on the soundtrack is God Save The Queen. Could be a pointer to Bozja?
gaunt star
What soundtrack
maiden lodge
that the first song on the soundtrack is God Save The Queen. Could be a pointer...
ehhhhh
serene crest
The Filth and the Fury is a movie about the Sex Pistols
gaunt star
Oh
serene crest
Hence God Save the Queen
gaunt star
If it's Templar I wouldn't be surprised at all
unique verge
Its at least as valid as the directors name being malformed
gaunt star
I still have hope for Beastmaster even if Yoshi said that it'd be a limited job, I have some small hope they are just trying to throw us off. But Bozja having Beastmasters everywhere doesn't help my case
unique verge
lol
maiden lodge
The Filth and the Fury is a movie about the Sex Pistols
And NBHD explicitly referneces the movie
gaunt star
looks up what templar does
severe brook
Templar's thing is usually being a more physical-focused paladin, essentially
cinder badger
@serene crest I feel like that's coincidental cuz Templars really have nothing to do with that shit...