retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[prime verge]

Imagine fandaniel showing up with his lunar bahamut going “sloppehhhh”

[worn bloom]

Lol

It would be second hand shloppeh.

[prime verge]

LMAOOOOOO

[rain onyx]

So you mean

Sloppeh seconds?

[worn bloom]

Yes

[prime verge]

u hear Ilberd say sloppeh in the 5.3 instance it was so fucking funny

[worn bloom]

The dynamic wouldn't have worked but eh.

They didn't even have Asahi last long though.

Geez that patch.

[balmy mesa]

it's a classic brick joke - isn't fandaniel possessing asahi's body atm?

[worn bloom]

I don't blame Yotsuyu going murder mode after her "family" showed up again.

[prime verge]

Asahi was so fun to hate lol

[balmy mesa]

I mean when fanny showed up, I was immediately like "oh no it's you again"

[worn bloom]

He was a good hate sink.

[prime verge]

Bringing him back as fandaniel is actually kinda cool

I was like “YOU SON OF A BITCH-“

JAKAKKA

[worn bloom]

BURN THE ALL THE COOLDOWNS

[prime verge]

Pov: an annoying guy in a white robe starts following you and then reveals himself as your long dead simp

[worn bloom]

I don't think Zenos even remembered him.

[prime verge]

Probably not haha

[severe brook]

Finally someone else acknowledges it

[worn bloom]

Zenos had no sympathetic qualities.

[severe brook]

i do have my crack theory that vauthry and zenos are fragments of each other

[prime verge]

Zenos is like “who tf r u”

[severe brook]

not of an Ancient soul

[worn bloom]

Vaulthry at least had a sympathetic backstory.

[prime verge]

The fact that this is his one personality trait

[severe brook]

but the fragments of the same soul nonetheless

[balmy mesa]

explains why zenos is so juicy

[prime verge]

I am not ashamed to admit that the larger part of why I even like zenos is cause he’s sexy

[worn bloom]

Eh

[prime verge]

LOL

[worn bloom]

As someone who into dudes

He doesn't do it for me looks wise

[prime verge]

As someone who is only into fictional men I respectfully disagree NANSNSNNSJSKD

[worn bloom]

Then again

bishonen characters were never my thing.

[prime verge]

That’s probably why I like him then

Pretty anime boys are cool

[worn bloom]

To each our own.

No kink shaming here.

[coral kite]

Depends in Ancient Rome, it was a term to refer to one's soul and released from you upon death. Carl Jung used the term to mean the more feminine attributes of a masculine character and in FF10, it's just a whole fucked up thing with Seymour using his mom as a twisted summon 😄

[prime verge]

I am also somehow an emet simp at the same time even tho I don’t know if he classifies as a bishonen type

[worn bloom]

I don't really think his character design was intended to be seen as attractive.

His posture downplays his appearence.

[prime verge]

Yet a lot of people are attracted to him including me

I can see how he doesn’t appear to have been designed with conventional attractiveness in mind tho

[heady shadow]

tbf

she was okay with it

[untold gull]

Sephirot lite

[worn bloom]

Aymeric and Estienien are the ones that get the most attention from certain friends of mine ;x.

[heady shadow]

even if his dad was an asshole

[prime verge]

I simp for almost every single adult character in this game 😭

They all just have cool personalities c:

[worn bloom]

Yeah

[radiant pollen]

even for that imperial roe guy from stormblood?

[worn bloom]

He was funny.

[heady shadow]

poor guy

[worn bloom]

That boss was really fucked up tbh.

[prime verge]

Yeah honestly

[prime verge]

Also I said almost for a reason lol

[worn bloom]

He's just kind of a bully who works for people far worse than him on the morality scale.

[random ravine]

what you think of asahi

[prime verge]

Yeah, he’s the stupid minion archetype

[radiant pollen]

what about fandaniel

[prime verge]

Uhhhhh, I cheered when asahi died but fandaniel is cool

[worn bloom]

Frankly he deserved the death he got.

[prime verge]

He very much did

[somber storm]

Captain Madison

[prime verge]

I do not remember the face of who ur talking about

[random ravine]

what about Foulques

have you done the lancer quests?

[radiant pollen]

what about Foulques

[prime verge]

OHHHH

[random ravine]

evil lancer guy

[prime verge]

I looked that bitch up

I liked him ;-;

[random ravine]

even when he tried to kill u?

damn

[prime verge]

Yeah bro gimme death I want it

Also the thing u gotta know about me is that if villain? Unhinged? Instant favorite character

I have a soft spot for villains no matter what so I was honestly surprised to see how much I hated asahi

[random ravine]

Ilberd?

[prime verge]

Okay I have two exceptions

[random ravine]

asahi is a very unsympathetic character

that's understandable

[prime verge]

Yeah

So is zenos

But I like him lol

[random ravine]

nah

zenos has a charisma to him

i can see why people like him

[prime verge]

Tbh I rlly didn’t like varis of all characters

[radiant pollen]

i end up liking zenos as time passes on

[prime verge]

The only thing I liked about varis was his hatred for emet

[random ravine]

so your two exceeptions are ilberd and varis?

[radiant pollen]

and grynewaht

[worn bloom]

I found Varis's actions at the end of SB a bit perplexing.

[prime verge]

I felt bad that he prob fought for his grandfather’s attentions, something he’d never get bc emet thinks he’s just a lowly sundered lol

[prime verge]

His character is so contradictory... okay mr “I hate my grandpa I hate ascians but REJOINING”

[worn bloom]

Earlier we saw him completely against the Ascians plan, then at the negotiation table he spews their rhetoric.

[prime verge]

I think he’s just a power hungry crazy dude

[worn bloom]

The behavior I thought was a bit too odd, and thought it was some kind of plot hook.

[prime verge]

Yes unless u reveal some horrible npc I totally forgot existed

[prime verge]

Might’ve been, or maybe there’s some allusions to his thought process that my brain skipped over, I tend to not notice little lore details until the second watch

[random ravine]

you would defend emet selch, but not ilberd

interesting

[prime verge]

No I’d defend ilberd

His motivations were cool

I just don’t simp for him

[random ravine]

ah i see

[worn bloom]

He was too smug about it.

[radiant pollen]

too sloppy

[prime verge]

Emet and Ilberd are incomparable 😤

LOL

[worn bloom]

Illberd unlike some villains at least stays dead.

[random ravine]

as far as you know

[woeful dagger]

Ilberd is an idiot

Or was

Good riddance

[prime verge]

I find ilberd was a bit of a hollow villain compared to our major ones

His motivations are sympathetic but he’s also kinda annoying

[worn bloom]

He basically caused Papalymo's sacrifice to happen.

[woeful dagger]

SLOPPEH

[prime verge]

You could say his writing was

SLOPPEHHHHH

Jk jk lol

[teal geyser]

I love Ilberd actually

[prime verge]

The dude was scary

[teal geyser]

Ilberd I think is that character you're kinda "okay I get you" at first glance but when you get into the nitty picky plot his character its even better

[prime verge]

Yeah I feel like the bulk of XIV characters r like this

Maybe that’s why asahi is so unlikeable, cause he’s just a pos to be a pos

[teal geyser]

No Asahi is just a shit

[prime verge]

LOL

Yotsuyu ;-;

I’m so glad fandaniel is parading around w asahi’s body

That bitch deserves it

[teal geyser]

but yeah let's see

[rain onyx]

“I’d rather cut off my own arm than to betray a close friend”

[worn bloom]

In my canon, my character told Asahi how Zenos went down like a little bitch.

[prime verge]

Omfg I love that

[rain onyx]

proceeds to cut off arm of close friend

[teal geyser]

Except he didn't

[prime verge]

The foreshadowing lol

[teal geyser]

By that point he didn't consider Raubahn his friend, not really

[prime verge]

Ilberd was the last person I expected after his whole speech to that one garlean spy

[balmy mesa]

he had a certain disarming charm

[prime verge]

I found Ilberd to be entertaining but not too compelling

He’s got some sexy memes of him tho

[woeful dagger]

You're my friend Cali

[brisk quail]

lets invite the brainwashed anata in a teaparty in our capital city/base. What's the worst that could happen?

Anata: summons lakshmi in the fucking teaparty

[prime verge]

JANNNSJSNSNNNSNSNNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNSNNSNSNSNSNS

Bro this was the most smooth brain thing lyse has ever done

[worn bloom]

To be fair

They thought they took the right percautions.

[woeful dagger]

That was just Lyse being naive

[prime verge]

True

I like talking about the particulars of tempering

[worn bloom]

They knew it would be risky and tried to keep that from being an issue.

[teal geyser]

Ilberd fought for his country even when it was going down the shitter, his best friend almost died and had to recover, the Garleans took their nation, his friend disappeared, he and his family managed to escape, he tried for years and years and years fighting back to get their homes back, year after year seeing those he knew die and his people giving up, his family then died in the calamity, he also finds his best friend through thick and thin had given up on Ala Mhigo and sold himself to Nanamo

Dude went through a lot

[prime verge]

It’s obvious that the ascians including emet are tempered, even we could be considered tempered by hydaelyn, but we and the ascians are vastly different from beast tribe thralls

[worn bloom]

I think he hated the fact he was able to move on in a way he was unable to.

[teal geyser]

To be honest I'd just hate Raubahn for giving up

[prime verge]

Yeah, he does have a lot of interesting lore

[woeful dagger]

But Raubahn didn't give up on Ala Mhigo, he was a major driving force for the Alliance to fight the Empire

[teal geyser]

He wasn't

[prime verge]

Yeah but Ilberd does not view it this way

[woeful dagger]

Ilberd just needed to talk to him for ten minutes.

[teal geyser]

Tmb

idk what you're on about

[worn bloom]

But then we wouldn't have a story.

[teal geyser]

Raubahn didn't force the alliance to fight the empire

Ilberd did

[worn bloom]

We can't have adults rationally talking their problems away.

[prime verge]

LOL

[teal geyser]

Hell Raubahn almost surrendered to them

[woeful dagger]

I said he was a driving force not that he literally forced them

[prime verge]

Yeah guys having a man to man heartfelt convo? Hell no, just shoot each other

[teal geyser]

Even then he...really wasn't?

[worn bloom]

Illberd forced their hand in the worst possible way.

He was even willing to sacrifice so many damn people on a suicide mission to do it.

[prime verge]

Yeah, that’s why he lost my sympathy near the end

[somber storm]

So many young Ala Mhigans

[prime verge]

I still felt bad but he sacrificed the very people he wanted to fight for

[woeful dagger]

But the Wall fell even before his sacrifice it makes no sense lol

That whole storyline was bleh

[worn bloom]

And then you have his two cronies who switch sides at the drop of a hate.

hat*

[teal geyser]

No it makes sense

The wall fell yes

but the empire could literally take it back in a day

[prime verge]

I wasn’t rlly interested in sb’s ala mhigo part of the story tbh

[teal geyser]

Ilberd wanted to summon the primal

[prime verge]

Doma and surrounding areas was the best part of sb

[woeful dagger]

I was way more interested in Ala Mhigo than Fake China

[teal geyser]

^

[prime verge]

Isn’t doma based on Japan

[woeful dagger]

No

[teal geyser]

Not as much as Hingashi Japan

Hingashi is Japan Japan

[woeful dagger]

Steppes are literally Mongolia

[teal geyser]

Doma is like

Japan China

and Steppes is just Mongolia yeah

[worn bloom]

Kugane Tower (Extreme)

[prime verge]

That part of the map I think is just a variation of eastern cultures

[woeful dagger]

Ruby Sea is the South China Sea

Complete with a corrupt trading company

[prime verge]

LOL

I rlly enjoyed the cultural aspects of sb

[worn bloom]

I liked Hancock tbh.

He was fun

[prime verge]

That part of the story with the Azim steppe was very engaging for me

[woeful dagger]

He can hand my cock any time

[prime verge]

A.

Why

[teal geyser]

Steppe and second half of Yanxia was the only good part of the Othard section

Ruby Sea sucked, Kugane was on a whole okay, first part of Yanxia sucks

[prime verge]

I found everything about ala mhigo except for zenos sometimes to be boring

[teal geyser]

you didn't enjoy war crimes big cannon?

or the fucking massacre at Reach?

[prime verge]

Gosetsu, hien, and yugiri were the best

[worn bloom]

SB secondary antagonists carried that expansion for me.

[woeful dagger]

Fordola made SB good

[prime verge]

No that part was good

[teal geyser]

So you found something good

[prime verge]

Fordola is cool too

LOL

[woeful dagger]

Fordola was their best villain they ever wrote

Then they abandoned her

[worn forge]

[woeful dagger]

ty SE

[prime verge]

I like certain individual parts of sb but the expansion as a whole wasnt as interesting as the one before it for example

[worn bloom]

It isn't a safe expectation to assume they never revist secondary characters.

[worn forge]

but she’s not abandoned, she’s out on field trips with the homie Arenvald

[prime verge]

Yeah, they kinda forgot all about fordola existing, I hope she comes back in some way

[teal geyser]

idk I consider that abandoned, she deserved more

[woeful dagger]

I had to take a 5m break when we see the flashback of her father getting murdered in front of her

[teal geyser]

She literally came back this expansion

[worn bloom]

I mean when ARR came out did anyone expect Edda and her party to get a rather lengthy side story about them?

[unique verge]

I wouldnt agree that Fordola was the best "villain". Maybe "antagonist" (though best is still a stretch)

[prime verge]

I mean

[teal geyser]

yeah I disagree that she's the best

but she's good

[prime verge]

Fordola still committed plenty of heinous crimes, but she is sympathetic

And I like what they did with her character

How she acknowledged what she’s done without pretending like she’s totally forgiven

[woeful dagger]

If they do good, they can make her an extremely compelling anti-hero

[prime verge]

Yeah that would be rlly cool

[unique verge]

Well, if they're going to dig her out of the vault

6.0 is the time to do it

[worn bloom]

She is the only one that probably suspects how messed up the WoL is mentally.

[unique verge]

And really the last chance for her to be properly relevant

[prime verge]

I feel like fordola could be a key part of understanding the artificial echo zenos has

[somber storm]

Resonance

[prime verge]

Ye

[somber storm]

She saw how fucked we really are

[royal spruce]

I just realized this but feet are really ugly in this game

[woeful dagger]

I don't want her to apologize for her actions. They'd ruin her if they try to write her in as a pure good person all of a sudden 😠

[prime verge]

Yeah lol

[worn bloom]

Fordola knows she did awful things and will likely spend the rest of her life making up for it.

[teal geyser]

that's why I mod feet and hands

[prime verge]

Part of her whole character is that she mercilessly murdered innocents that were also her own people

[teal geyser]

I like how the collar she has on now is fucking gruesome

[prime verge]

Oof..

[teal geyser]

it burns white hot and slowly suffocates you until you die

[worn forge]

ye on command

[worn bloom]

I think eventually the collar will be taken off.

[teal geyser]

Sure

but....

how long till?

[prime verge]

That’s seriously traumatizing

[woeful dagger]

No I want Lyse to HAVE to kill Fordola

[worn bloom]

As long as it takes for people to actually trust her intentions.

[royal spruce]

https://youtu.be/EjjRetL5d5M

[teal geyser]

which again

could be a loooong time

[worn bloom]

Could

Redemption isn't an easy path.

[prime verge]

The only other “redeemed” character we have in this game are memelord Nero and gaius

[worn bloom]

Nor should it

Nero and Cid's interactions made the Omega raid story for me.

[woeful dagger]

I want a scenario where Fordola fights alongside us, helps defeat Zenos, then attacks Lyse to force Lyse to activate the collar

[teal geyser]

I mean

Nero's still not a great guy

he's still a dick

[prime verge]

I love Nero and cid’s constant divorce drama

[woeful dagger]

And die right there

[teal geyser]

who just wants to build weapons of mass destruction

[prime verge]

A slightly less evil but still fun dick

[worn bloom]

He's still a dick

But he's our dick.

[worn forge]

Nero is just around to be at odds with Cid, like Cal said

[royal spruce]

I thought about this but is it possible that big city is on a spaceship

[prime verge]

Give me more Nero and cid marriage counseling

[teal geyser]

Radz?

[royal spruce]

?

[woeful dagger]

No the new potential big city

[worn forge]

void ark mandatory for msq?

[prime verge]

Radz is in thavnair is it not

[teal geyser]

Well they need to be more specific

[somber storm]

Nero and Gerolt and Rowena conversations when?

[prime verge]

They said they won’t be revealing the big city hub yet

[royal spruce]

That ship whatever that is on the cover of the title what if that is the city

[teal geyser]

Like, the only "new" city we've been shown is Radz

[teal geyser]

Nah

[prime verge]

I love how in 5.4 Nero is just a new ironworks dude with slightly questionable motivations lol

[worn bloom]

His experience is invaluable.

[prime verge]

I love Nero so much

[worn bloom]

Actually I like how he looks tbh.

[somber storm]

Alpha and Nero both official employees of Garlond Ironworks

[prime verge]

He barely doesn’t cross the uncanny valley line lol

[royal spruce]

What makes you say that

[woeful dagger]

You love every manbait SE tosses out huh

[teal geyser]

Well you'd have to like...put people in it and who the fuck would you put in it? Space Allagans?

[woeful dagger]

Yes

[prime verge]

Also I love how Jessie straight up paid Nero mad money without consulting cid

[royal spruce]

It's been a bit but what happened to the void Ark is it still around

[prime verge]

Lmao I thought he was weird looking at first but he grew on me. I generally find something to like within every character no matter how insufferable they are

[woven escarp]

big pog, the fanfest hoodie is back in stock

[woeful dagger]

Hopefully except G'raha

[woven escarp]

at least, I was able to order one, who knows if it's actually going to show up

[prime verge]

Fuck u

LOL

[royal spruce]

emet selch is a best friend

[prime verge]

Graha second only to emet, catboy nation 😌

[royal spruce]

More so than that Blondie

[prime verge]

“You may not think of him as a friend but he certainly feels that way about you” thanks koji I needed that

[woeful dagger]

I despise how he went from a leader who walked into Eulmore alone and survived to an awkward pre-teen who stutters in the Source

Like what????

[teal geyser]

Yes it hasn't disappeared

[royal spruce]

cool

[teal geyser]

He's just that Urianger meme

[woven escarp]

the void ark is still around, it's just helmless and coasting on ghost fumes

[unique verge]

Yes, what we all need is a deluded psychopath as a friendstalker. That always ends happily.

[prime verge]

Ehh I can kinda see your point but graha’s source body is a lot younger and healthier and also catboy fan service pls let me have this

[royal spruce]

But truly it started me when I look back at those words remember us remember that we once lived now takes on a completely new meaning

[prime verge]

When has it not?

[royal spruce]

It's sad I mean when I look back on it

[prime verge]

You don’t understand how deep my despair for emet goes 😀

[royal spruce]

It really is nice and came back to help his friend one last time

he*

[prime verge]

Bro I swear I lost my mind when that happened

I thought it was azem or hythlo at first then I saw the wave and went 👁️👁️

[unique verge]

I had a bit of a diffferent interpretation of that scene

Its not "him" coming back so-to-speak

[royal spruce]

But I'm assuming considering what's going on in 6.0 we're going to go more into us being 14th maybe we'll find out where they were in the final days

[prime verge]

As long as emet and convocation continues to be mentioned I’m happy

Also graha

[royal spruce]

Wouldn't it be sad when it's all said and done that the warrior of light cries for their brothers and sisters

That are no longer coming back

[prime verge]

Why do u have to make me saddd

[royal spruce]

Nice meme

[prime verge]

How is it possible to not like graha yall

[royal spruce]

I'm assuming we're going to have to kill both of them

[prime verge]

That’s a quality@meme

Or make them kill each other

[teal geyser]

No

[royal spruce]

I'm assuming if they were both taken out of the picture it wouldn't affect the world too much since they would balance each other out

[unique verge]

If i were to take a guess on people who don't like G'raha

[prime verge]

I think the opposite

[teal geyser]

I really don't think we'll "kill" Hydaelyn

[unique verge]

its the ones who....."strongly remember his ARR appearance"

[prime verge]

I haven’t met many people who don’t like graha

[teal geyser]

Dude let us win that contest

what a dick

[royal spruce]

But I'm assuming neither of them are the true threat

I'm assuming there's some third-party that we don't know about

[prime verge]

I played crystal tower cause I got into XIV recently and it rlly made my shb graha experience so much better than if I didn’t play it

[woeful dagger]

We have to kill actual God

[unique verge]

Yeah but G'raha was kind of an insufferable type in the early days. He's not an asshole but i dont know the right word. Stuck up? full of himself?

[royal spruce]

You think it's an actual God

[teal geyser]

cocky

[unique verge]

That works too.

[woeful dagger]

Not "a" God, the actual creator of reality.

[teal geyser]

Necron?

[unique verge]

So i think the "hate G'raha" people are like, too focused on that hour of gameplay or so, if i were to take a guess

[royal spruce]

That would be a big threat

[unique verge]

and thn proceeded to skip most of ShB

[woeful dagger]

Necron was death personified.

In 9 at least

[prime verge]

I don’t see him this way even in just crystal tower raids, he isn’t stuck up in an arrogant way but i can see how he comes off as such if crystal tower is all u know him from

His character is cute and nice but not that extremely crazy interesting in crystal tower as it is when it comes full circle in shb

[royal spruce]

the 14th I've been assuming now that in the final days they were searching for some type of solution that didn't involve the summoning of primals by either side

[gaunt star]

i think 6.0 should delete geuno

[royal spruce]

also who else wants that awesome looking Paladin gear

[prime verge]

ME

Bro as a paladin main I was FED GOOD

[royal spruce]

But yeah no matter what I think 6.0 is going to be a roller coaster

[prime verge]

Yeah. It’s canon that azem is a purely neutral party. They disapproved of both hydaelyn and zodiark’s summoning

[deft burrow]

about time the greatest tank gets an expac

[dark carbon]

I've just finished up 5.3, and the thing I've disliked most about G'raha is the tendency to hide the truth/not be honest with the player until the last moment

[prime verge]

I am soooooo hype

[woeful dagger]

I hate that Fending gear doesn't really fit Gunbreaker aesthetic

[prime verge]

This is literally just urianger

[dark carbon]

Yep

But in G'raha's case it could have got us killed

[prime verge]

You know it

[royal spruce]

Azem truly person I hope we hear more about

[prime verge]

Urianger was ready to sacrifice graha for his plan tho.. without consulting anyone else

[woeful dagger]

Still waiting on SE to explain how he VISITED THE ASCIAN PLANE

[subtle pasture]

Huh, neat. Mikoto throws out Archon's Stone IV (obvious) and Magicked Mark (Glare) in DR

and the occasional Cure II

[prime verge]

LOL

[subtle pasture]

she also does a cool phase dodge to every mechanic

[royal spruce]

Also it looks like Dragoon is no longer going to have it set to itself looks like it's time for Dragoon to share

[deft burrow]

Yeah

New melee will use maiming

Sooo

[dark carbon]

I understood it as G'raha telling Urianger that:s what he wanted to do, and wasn't interested or able to seek an alternative

[deft burrow]

Its suppose to be edg

[woven escarp]

that can only mean good things for drg glamour though

[deft burrow]

edgy

[woven escarp]

because you won't have so many irritating ugly sets with spiky shit on them

[deft burrow]

Edgy = Scythe

[woven escarp]

only AF

[deft burrow]

Scythe melee confirmed

It fits maiming soooo well

[prime verge]

True but urianger’s whole thing is lying for the greater good. If he were to consult us, perhaps graha’s risky plan would not have resulted in so much suffering

Broooooooo, scythe class gimme gimme

[prime verge]

It rlly does

[royal spruce]

I'm honestly surprised we never heard about the Xbox version

[prime verge]

Isn’t Microsoft giving se a hard time w that

[royal spruce]

No

You're thinking old Microsoft

[balmy mesa]

two things SE are refusing to budge on, and MS isn't keen on having that concession:

• billing
• chat and cross-platform play

[dark carbon]

Equally, G'raha could have told us the risks of the Light/distracted with a different plan, like
"once you've dealt with the lightwardens, I've got a spell that can put it somewhere else"

[balmy mesa]

the billing issue is (kind of?) resolved now that free to play multiplayer games don't need a Live Gold membership

[royal spruce]

The only people against cross-play is Sony

[prime verge]

True but I think graha knew we wouldn’t approve. It’s why he kept even his face a secret, and why he pretended to betray us before his true plan was revealed. The wol seeing a trusted and old friend doing this would surely create issues for graha’s plan as we would most likely try to stop him

Also I’m sure we would’ve inquired and been too nosy for graha’s liking had he revealed anything

[royal spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/dame-da-ne-ff14-solus-gif-19401105

[balmy mesa]

nah, nothing to do with Sony since SE run everything on their own infrastructure - MS wanted SE to run separate servers for Xbox people, and SE (for obvious reasons) aren't keen on that idea

[prime verge]

What the actual fu is this

JAKAKMAMAKS

[dark carbon]

That's the reason given ingame, yeah
But we've stood by and let others sacrifice themselves before

[royal spruce]

Again you're thinking of a old Microsoft

[prime verge]

Two things make me happy in XIV, ascians and graha tia, LITERALY all I need

[dark carbon]

Not suggesting that's good, mind

[wind bough]

yeah but Ejika Tsunjika was a loser

[prime verge]

I very seriously doubt the wol and scions (besides ofc urianger) would stand by as graha killed himself for us. That’s made apparent by the following patches when graha says “yknow if all else fails I could just die” and alisaie says “fuck u bitch ur coming w us”

[royal spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/emet-gif-18085890

[prime verge]

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[balmy mesa]

that said, though - phil spencer is very keen on working out a deal, just wish they'd hurry up lol

[royal spruce]

I got a feeling that they already have one done

Because you know how close Microsoft and Square Enix have been lately

[balmy mesa]

maybe for 6.0 launch?

[prime verge]

maybe theyll annouce something of the sort in may

[royal spruce]

But really you're thinking about old Microsoft

[dark carbon]

G'raha could just have easily decided that telling us he's just going to nip into the rift and yeet all that extra light away, and hell be right back
And then... Not

[royal spruce]

New Microsoft with Phil Spencer is making something like XIV possible

He wants it yoshi-p wants it

[prime verge]

i doubt even the wol is stupid enough to believe this

[wind bough]

remember when you had the option to endorse Ejika sacrificing himself as a quest choice

oh wait no one finished Eureka

[worn bloom]

I did

[dark carbon]

He thought we would believe his betrayal plan, to be fair

[prime verge]

not necessarily believe, just be too late to stop him

[worn bloom]

Urianger was already clued in on his plan yeah?

[dark carbon]

Yea

[prime verge]

yeah but urianger is known for being morally conflicted when it comes to lying for the greater good

hes done it before

[teal geyser]

to be honest

Urianger can lie to me all he wants

he always does it for the best reason

[prime verge]

i feel like graha trusted urianger because hes "more practical"

[worn bloom]

He's the one who believes he needs to make the tough decisions when no one else will.

[prime verge]

true but there are obviously other roads to take than killing mr catboy

[teal geyser]

like?

[prime verge]

as shown by the msq

[teal geyser]

You mean...a plan they had no idea would actually work?

[royal spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/cid-cid-nan-garlond-cid-garlond-ffxiv-final-fantasy-gif-16621417

[prime verge]

"we will find a way"

[teal geyser]

also wasn't even a plan

[prime verge]

lol

[teal geyser]

"We will find a way" is NOT a plan

[prime verge]

yeah but thats what the scions go with all the time

thats the point

is that thats what they always do

thats what they did to get them back to the source despite the risks

the scions never go with a practical or fullproof plan, only urianger has done that

the scions r basically "we'll figure it out when we get there" mentality

[royal spruce]

I can't wait to see that job action trailer

[prime verge]

omfg

bro

i am shaking for that

i cant wait to see it

[royal spruce]

I wonder what moves are going to get the chopping block what moves are going to get combined into each other

[prime verge]

PALADIN WHAT R UR NEW SKILLS???? TELL ME TELL ME

im so excited for pld skills tho bc pld's kit rn is rlly wonderful

pld is so fun to play, i wonder what theyll add or take away..

[dark carbon]

A raise would be nice

So I can pretend to be in eureka, outside eureka

[prime verge]

paladin is already too op in the "tank but also healer" department 😭

i love it tho

healer dies? fuck u im healer now 😈

[random ravine]

what about this

paladin g ets new move

called sacrifice

sacrifices himself for a +200% damage absorb to whole party

[royal spruce]

The only move I can see being removed for Paladin is divine Veil

[random ravine]

so healer can live

[prime verge]

LMAO PARSE KILLER

[prime verge]

i have never a day in my life used divine veil unless it was a misclick

so makes sense, but if they remove they should replace with something better

[dark carbon]

Divine Veil has some gpose comedy value

Time it right, and you have a sword flying to your head

[prime verge]

KDNFKJASDFASDF

[royal spruce]

But yeah they're going to have to remove and combined skills for controller players

[prime verge]

i cant even imagine playing xiv on a controller

i know some ppl do but it seems hard

[royal spruce]

I've been playing Final Fantasy XIV on controller for 5 years

[prime verge]

how is it?

[royal spruce]

I like it

[prime verge]

nice :)))

im comfy w my keyboard but thats cool

[royal spruce]

Nothing beats moving around with a thumbstick

[prime verge]

LMAO I SEE THE NAME OF WHOS TYPING AND IMMEDIATELY THINK OF OUR CONVO TWO SECONDS AGO

[stuck yarrow]

I got a new chair for my computer recently and my life is so much better now

[prime verge]

nice!!!!!!!!!

good chair makes back no hurt

[stuck yarrow]

My old chair was like, a wooden bar chair with a back

[prime verge]

i love the feel of playing on a controller, i just dk if i would like it for 14

[prime verge]

ouchie my back hurts just from reading this

[stuck yarrow]

now i can play XIV for 8 hours straight with zero impediment yippee

[prime verge]

yay!!!

[royal spruce]

Currently I got all my moves for all jobs fitting on to just 2 cross hotbars

[prime verge]

the only thing i hate about keyboard is the finger cramps

[royal spruce]

But it's the opposite for me I can't imagine playing this game on a keyboard and mouse

[prime verge]

me smashing one button on my keyboard for 10 minutes hurts like hell sometimes KDSNFKSNDF

[prime verge]

yeah i can totally see that

i suppose u get used to it no matter what u use

[royal spruce]

Because I do like the controller it's small convenient and comfortable

[prime verge]

yeah!

[royal spruce]

Since I'm playing this on the PS5 I'm playing this with the dual sense controller

[prime verge]

ooooooh

yoshi finally got his ps5 good for him

[royal spruce]

Also I can't wait to play that PS5 version in a couple months

It's the same day is 5.5 I just hope we can download the PS5 version in advance

[prime verge]

im sure itll run beautifully

[royal spruce]

So I can play 5.5 when it pops up

[prime verge]

5.5 👀

[royal spruce]

Too soon

[prime verge]

Sees graha in 5.5 screenshot:
me:

[prime verge]

why..

[royal spruce]

I really hope it doesn't come down to the point where the PS5 Beta download only pops up when the server goes live

[prime verge]

se hand over the catboy

OOF

also those ps5 loading times were sick

it was barely a second

[royal spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/ffxiv-catboy-miqote-graha-graha-tia-gif-16621415

[prime verge]

i love you so much cat

https://twitter.com/i/status/1297497550380060672

Nyx, Burying The Light (5.4 spoliers!) (@ffxiv_Nyx)

♥

#EmetSelch https://t.co/ioGMAYJaBF

Retweets

227

Likes

448

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 23, 2020, 11:34 AM

[royal spruce]

Surprise twist in 5.5 emet comes back to life to help us

[unique verge]

Emet coming back would cheapen everything about him

[prime verge]

as abysmal as this would be for story continuity, i would not mind

LOL

[unique verge]

People need to stop coming back

[prime verge]

yeah

i completely agree

[unique verge]

Zenos is understandable to happen ONCE

he must die permanently in 6.0 or his character will be ruined imo

[prime verge]

some part of me tho would be elated if he did come back no matter how bad it is for his character arc

i miss him too much

[royal spruce]

To be honest I just want him to die and stay dead

I'm not a really big fan of his character

[prime verge]

when i finished shb its rlly like i went through a week of grieving

[prime verge]

zenos should most def die and stay dead in 6.0

[royal spruce]

🍞

[prime verge]

lahabread

[royal spruce]

[prime verge]

omfg yes

saving this

[flat merlin]

6.4 Lahabrea comes back and makes a bakery

[prime verge]

tbh the only unsundered i could ever see making a physical comeback is laha

he didnt die so explicitly as the otheres

there could be some loophole found there

however weird

[wind bough]

He died really damn explicitly

[prime verge]

LOLOL

[wind bough]

but on the other hand

I love him

[prime verge]

well not as explicit as getting literally shot through the soul and poofing into dust

[royal spruce]

[prime verge]

i love all ascians

[royal spruce]

[prime verge]

my pfp is god tier thank u for acknowledging it 😌

[royal spruce]

[eager mica]

Lahabrea was less killed and more absorbed.

And when our favorite dragoon destroyed the eyes of Nidhogg, there's a chance he could have been freed.

[prime verge]

literally anyone: lets talk about eme-
me: slams an enormous book of character analyzation down

[prime verge]

idk about that but ur right he was more so absorbed

also eli was technically absorbed too, into the crystal tower

[eager mica]

As for Emet Selch... He's dead. But I think there's still some lingering part of himself.

[prime verge]

but his death seemed to be more explicit death than laha

[eager mica]

See: The Warrior of Light battle.

[prime verge]

laha was kinda left open

[royal spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/emet-emet-selch-ascian-ffxiv-gif-19514289

[prime verge]

emet azem said its my turn to drive

[eager mica]

I love/hate that car. It's cool that it was a free four person mount.

[prime verge]

i do believe that as the most powerful member with the highest seat on the convocation (i think lol) as well as it being canon that he is specially attuned to the lifestream, its not surprising if he has some kind of lingering will

[eager mica]

But since my main character in a min height femiqo'te, I can't even see above the dashboard.

[prime verge]

DFAFDADFASDFASDF

[royal spruce]

There's someone in party finder giving away 1 million Gil for the first person who finds them

[prime verge]

as a max height fem miqote i cannot relate 😌

[somber storm]

lala

[prime verge]

me getting ready to drop 400k gil on a fucking shoebill bc someone decided emet is somehow related to it:

[royal spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/emet-selch-jazz-hands-gif-18818884

[random ravine]

how about this......a new move called Haurchefant's Will: kills tank and gives healer 400% hp shield

[prime verge]

what the actual fuck persuaded you to type this with your human fingers

[heady shadow]

thats been a thing since it appeared lol

[prime verge]

i know lol

[unique verge]

The thing that appear in the WoL battle is almost certainly not Emet, but a failsafe he created prior to his own death. It, and the rest of Amaurot, will eventually fade away.

[prime verge]

i dont know if this is true, azem's crystal is said to contain the power to summon friends in times of need. thats what happened here. also amaurot is not fading away bc i can spend 999 gil to go and afk there until my computer explodes

[unique verge]

Lore-wise its fading away

As far as the rest goes

Consider that unlike the other crystals - Emet specifically made ours for us, in secret

[prime verge]

when was it implied that amaurot is fading away tho

[unique verge]

I'd have to find it. I am dead certain im right on this one though

It might have been Shtola who said it

[somber storm]

forged in secret a master ring crystal

[unique verge]

Anyway, there's also the aspect that everything that occured in Amaurot in 5.3 was pre-engineered by Emet before he died.

[prime verge]

the only thing i can think of is the scene after emet's death where the city is in shambles, but that was part of emet's final days illusion, not the city he created out of memory. i doubt emet would destroy his beloved fake city just for that LOL

[unique verge]

Finding the crystals, what Hythlo said to us, all of it

[thin crypt]

somethings different

[eager mica]

I'd buy that on a poster.

[prime verge]

well.... emet didnt necessarily code hythlo to come find us. he made a mishap when imagining/creating him so that he appears as he once was, a kind helpful person with free will

SAME

[unique verge]

Hythlo makes a specific comment alluding to this though

[heady shadow]

you know now that you say it.....

Hydealin has boobies

i can get behind this

[prime verge]

yeah he says smth like "idk if this is my own will or that of my creator"

[unique verge]

Right

[random ravine]

because dps isn't everything

[unique verge]

and its not as if Hythlo got the idea to set up a crystal scavenger hunt on his own

That was Emets plan

[prime verge]

but it doesnt imply that emet specifically wanted hythlo to give the wol the crystal

i mean, its a cool theory but i dont think this is stated in canon, hythlo's actions are explicitly said to have been a result of emet's overactive and overemotional imagination, not necessarily that hes using hythlo's shade as a puppet of some sort

[patent axle]

hi i love emet selch

goodbye

[prime verge]

welcome to the club

KJNDFKJANSDFKJNASDKJFNKASDJF

ME

[random ravine]

who is emet selch?

[eager mica]

I love him and hate him.

[patent axle]

I love him, especially when he talks shit to me

[prime verge]

there is no limit to the sea of love that exists for emet within my undying heart

[heady shadow]

well he imagined Hythlo's personality probs

[prime verge]

LMAO

[eager mica]

I hate him 'cause you know... That whole "cosmic level genocide" thing he did more than once.

[heady shadow]

since hythlo gave azem iftria to stop a volcano

before even consulting the convocation

[unique verge]

Are you seriously not in ShB yet?

[prime verge]

LMAO true

[patent axle]

he can cosmic level genocide my ass tbh

[odd yoke]

[prime verge]

i love how we see these little tidbits of emet's genuinely emotional personality throughout shb, even tho of course he is a horrible person for what hes done

[eager mica]

L-lewd.

[patent axle]

but i think it is the case for most dudes in this game

I am FFXIV male sexual

except Aymeric

[random ravine]

it's almost like...emet selch is human

[unique verge]

To me, the most compelling aspect of Emet is him setting up these failsafes

[patent axle]

fuck Aymeric he's ugly

[prime verge]

i liked seeing his rationalization for this tho, even tho i doubt even he truly believed it. "i dont consider you to be truly alive ergo i will not be guilty of murder if i kill you"

[unique verge]

because it implies a specific and profound thing - that he was resisting his own tempering the entire time.

[prime verge]

me except every hot person is included regardless of gender

[patent axle]

i like some girls

but none are as hot as the dudes

[prime verge]

yes, part of why he may have turned out like this is bc of his tempering, and also because of his immense grief

[patent axle]

Estinien is probs number 2

Thancred is def number 1

[prime verge]

just imagine yourself in his shoes

[patent axle]

and Emet is third

[eager mica]

Don't hate on Aymeric, my person. He's the best boy.

[patent axle]

I'm dragoonsexual so Estinien is cheating

[patent axle]

he's ugly and stinky

[woeful dagger]

Emet Selch is Great Value brand ff9 Garland

Prove me wrong

[patent axle]

if we talking about ishgardians bring me haurchebro

[patent axle]

ShB has a lot of FFIX shit sooooo

[eager mica]

He's perfect and beautiful.

[patent axle]

lies and slander

[prime verge]

imagine the world is about to end and u sacrifice everything to save people, then some dudes decide no this isnt okay, and basically cause your world to implode. now youre all alone with two other bitches as ur only friends, one of which barely knows who he is anymore, and everywhere u go ur reminded of the people you love who dont even remember anything about you and never will

sorry im in my FEELS

[prime verge]

i second this, but estinien should bathe

[patent axle]

Anyway FFIV extension hype time

[woeful dagger]

That's Garland's story but more boring

[prime verge]

☹️

[patent axle]

the WoL be pullin a Cecil

[eager mica]

Emet-Selch was a character. Garland was slightly more of a character than Nercon.

[prime verge]

whats this hate for emet tmb

[woeful dagger]

Disagree.

[prime verge]

where does this come from, therapy session time

[eager mica]

I am pretty hyped for the FFIV love.

And I really, really hope hummingways are a beast tribe on the moon we can be friends with.

[prime verge]

im gonna play 4 before 6.0 bc i want those sweet sweet references and also PALADIN ON THE M OON

[maiden lodge]

Imagine the world is about to end, and you're like 'Okay, we can totally fix this if we can work together and find the cause.'

And your best friend goes 'We're going to kill half of everyone instead.'

'What?'

'We're going to kill half of everyone and that'll solve it.'

'I... I think that's just... as bad.... you know what, count me out.'

[prime verge]

DSHJKFBNJASHBDFJAHSBDF VALID

[eager mica]

FFIV is my second or third favorite game in the series.

[patent axle]

Not having played FFIV-VI is a crime

[maiden lodge]

I love emet too but he's kinda a trashweasel

[woeful dagger]

They better have the weird lion creatures from ff8 on the Moon

[eager mica]

FXIV, FFIV and VI, Tactics.

[prime verge]

well heres the thing, i dont think emet forced anyone to sacrifice themselves. he actually implied the opposite, that ppl who sacrificed themselves did so willingly for the sake of the star and others

[prime verge]

fair

[maiden lodge]

That does't really make it better when it's on that scale.

[patent axle]

Ivalics > ur favorite FF universe

[eager mica]

Tactics... I like it until it starts become about demons and stops being about shitty people.

And then the story falls apart of me but I still love the gameplay.

[heady shadow]

Azem didnt like what Venat's group was doing either

[prime verge]

no it doesnt, but the blame is not on emet. he did however seem to think it was acceptable, and this could be in part due to tempering.

[woeful dagger]

ff9's lore is pretty rad

[patent axle]

😴

[eager mica]

IX was likely my least favorite of the PS1 games, really.

It's good.

[patent axle]

Idk if it's IX or VII for me

[unique verge]

Azem likely, if given the chance would have solved the problem of the final days or died trying

But the primals were summoned before Azem got a chance to do anything about it

[wind bough]

Emet is totally complicit in what took place.

[cinder badger]

Speaking of VII

[eager mica]

I like VII because of it's gameplay varity. They throw all sort of random minigames at you a lot... So stays fresh.

[patent axle]

no

[cinder badger]

When is remake part 2?

[patent axle]

vii is illegal

[wind bough]

Let's not get into some bizarre genocide-justifying mental gymnastics OK

[maiden lodge]

No, the tempering is after the summoning.

And if I manipulate the world into accepting mass sacrifice, the fact they agreed doesn't make me 'the good guy.' Even if emet thought he was right, he's not.

[prime verge]

yes and so was literally everyone else except for azem and venat's group who still sacrificed half their order for the summoning of another primal

[prime verge]

im not arguing whether hes right, hes most certainly wrong

but i understand his pain

[wind bough]

The thirteen remaining members of the Convocation are all complicit.

[lime estuary]

Ive never seen a more appropriate name

[prime verge]

yes

[eager mica]

I can understand his pain... But he's still a villian and I sort of feel he's sort of like... Milton's Lucifer.

[patent axle]

I hope you act the same when you see Yotsuyu simps justifying her war crimes

[wind bough]

That Emet was not alone does not really affect his culpability one way or the other.

[eager mica]

Yotsuyu was a monster.

[prime verge]

JHDBSFJHABSDJHFBAJSHBDFJHASBDFJHASDBFJHASDF

[wind bough]

I've literally never seen anyone do that

so no need for pointed assumptions OK?

[patent axle]

I've seen a lot of people do that

[eager mica]

Although when she genuinely lost her memory, it wouldn't have been fair to punish her.

[patent axle]

I disagree

Losing memory doesn't excuse anything she did

[wind bough]

What would be the purpose of such a punishment?

[patent axle]

kill the war criminal

[wind bough]

Why?

She is no longer dangerous.

[lime estuary]

Lets not pretend any of this is real. You absolutely can like an evil or antagonistic character without excusing similar actions in real life. There's a separation.

[patent axle]

Still a war criminal

[wind bough]

It serves only to sate emotional and irrational desires for revenge

[unique verge]

Its a bit of a murky area

because at some point, she remembered and hid it

[wind bough]

not to create any measure of reparation or to protect anyone from future abuse.

[eager mica]

It does't excuse anything she did... But it wouldn't be justice. At that point, you're killing someone who's literally innocent of the crimes she committed.

[unique verge]

and its reasonable to assume that would have happened with or without Asahi's interference

[patent axle]

:doubt:

[wind bough]

What do you think the purpose of punishment is in society

[prime verge]

true, im not arguing that what the ancients/emet did was very much wrong. but theres a certain level of sympathetic reasoning behind it, and especially when u take into account the fact that this was an agreed upon sacrifice by half the inhabitants of the star should be taken into account, those who sacrificed themselves had free will. its only that the tempering resulted in moer and more beings having to be sacrificed to zodiark.

[wind bough]

Of course there's sympathetic reasoning.

But it's still genocide.

[unique verge]

The purpose of punishment is twofold. Sometimes its reform. Sometimes its punishment for punishments sake. And sometimes thats okay too.

[eager mica]

At that point, she literally didn't remember anything she did. You'd be killing someone who doesn't even understand why they are dying.

[wind bough]

We can feel pathos for the Ancients and still denounce their actions.

[patent axle]

Of course she lost her memory

[random ravine]

no

[wind bough]

gross.

[patent axle]

But she's still a war criminal

[wind bough]

That's a false equivalence, and it's a very obvious one.

[prime verge]

emet himself said that the star's inhabitants willingly sacrificed themselves to save the other half, and that this world's inhabitants would never make such a sacrifice. he used it as an example that his world was somehow better and more loving than theirs (not true ofc) so im mainly just arguing that emet and the convocation's initial reasoning and summoning may not have been an evil act, but everything after most certainly was. theres a grey area

[thin crypt]

fixed

[unique verge]

Okay, so, hypothetically, lets say that Asahi never comes around. Yotsuyu regains her memories, and hides that she has (this is very likely to occur without Asahi), but eventually slips and is exposed. Now the "she's just a different person" reasoning doesnt fly, and even if she's no longer a threat, it feels immoral to allow her to just walk away from what she did.

[patent axle]

Hang the war criminal

[unique verge]

Like, if a mass murderer says they're really really sorry after the fact, you still throw them in prison for life / execute them.

[eager mica]

Yotsuyu is the war criminal. Tsuyu has the mental attributes of a literally child... Like a young child, at that. Killing her because she did something bad when she was mentally cupable is a little fucked up.

[somber storm]

Hydalyn gonna step on Zodiark again

[wind bough]

The uncertainty adds an additional dimension too, yeah

[patent axle]

And letting her go as if she did nothing wrong is not any better

[wind bough]

why not?

[prime verge]

killing her while she was tsuyu would be immoral. she had no idea who she was, she was like someone else entirely

she should not have been let go

[wind bough]

Yeah I don't entirely disagree with you here.

[strange wing]

I hope we see Daddy Gosetsu again

He was a good guy

[patent axle]

Imagine you're any doman and you see the woman who executed your friends/family, sent you to do forced work and all of that shit just walk around as if nothing ever happened

[prime verge]

hien and gosetsu's reasoning and idea for a way to keep her without excusing her actions was justifiable. if she remembered what she did however, she cannot possibly say "im so sorry" and everything is fine. ofc then she should be punished. kinda like fordola was treated yknow

[prime verge]

SAME

[unique verge]

The one saving grace of that whole situation

[patent axle]

Gosetsu

[wind bough]

The personality that did those things no longer exists. Domans can get over it.

[unique verge]

is the governmental and societal structure of Doma

[patent axle]

:doubt:

[eager mica]

Except letting her go like she did nothing wasn't something that anyone involved wanted to do. They just realized it would be vengeance, not justice, to kill her... And when you're trying to set up a new Doma, free of the bullshit of old Doma, you don't really get that by killing someone who would be crying at her public execution she she literally doesn't have any understanding of what she did.

[wind bough]

An innocent doesn't deserve to die for the sake of their feelings.

[patent axle]

"Innocent"

[prime verge]

the point of punishment is justice

[wind bough]

She is an innocent.

[patent axle]

Nah

She's a war criminal

[eager mica]

"Tsuyu" was innocent. It was a personality that came up from tramua.

[wind bough]

Yotsuyu and Tsuyu are effectively separate individuals at that point.

[unique verge]

If she regains her memories, she instantly resumes being a war criminal though.

[maiden lodge]

Tsuyu and Yotsuyu are not exactly the same person.

[prime verge]

not feeding your lust for vengeance, so much so that youd kill someone who doesnt remember at all who they are or what they could have possibly done. its like she was someone else

[patent axle]

But they are

[wind bough]

No, they are not.

[patent axle]

I'd 100% do it

[prime verge]

HJKDSFJHASBFJHBASJHDBF

[wind bough]

To say they are is to be ignorant of the facts.

[prime verge]

LOL

[wind bough]

Then I worry for you

[prime verge]

i feel that this is another one of those morally grey areas we see very frequently with villains in xiv

[wind bough]

and think that maybe you should drop this conversation.

[maiden lodge]

No, they're not. And the game actually wants you to understand this, because the idea that memory is a required part of identity is necessary to understand a lot of other shit going down, including 'How does an Ascian work' and so on

[unique verge]

There's another factor to be considered here, and its hit upon by the story

[prime verge]

emet's actions are morally grey at some point and so is tsuyu as a character

[maiden lodge]

Once Tsuyu remembers--she is Yotsuyu again (but remembering what it meant to be Tsuyu) and this causes her a great conflict, but also, she knows where to channel her anger.

[prime verge]

the whole point is this cannot be solved by black and white thinking

[unique verge]

A "greater good" argument for why Tsuyu might have had to face some sort of punishment even if she never regained her memories

[wind bough]

Tsuyu's not really that "grey".

[patent axle]

Yeah cause she's 100% in the black

[unique verge]

Her mere presence, even as Tsuyu, caused immense distress and suffering to the people of Doma

[maiden lodge]

That is true, she is the genocider of dango and persimmons

[prime verge]

i feel like shes a sympathetic villain but her actions as yotsuyu are purely evil

[eager mica]

Hell, I'd make the arguement that when she became Yotsuyu again, she actively wanted to die

[prime verge]

but as tsuyu she is grey

[wind bough]

The problem there isn't really a matter of what the right judgement is to make regarding her culpability, but how to manage the emotions of a vengeful populace.

[prime verge]

bc she is technically the same but also not

[unique verge]

I think that, in a timeline where Asahi never appears but she never regains her memories, if she's exposed as being alive still the only thing Hien can do at minimum is exile both her and Gosetsu from Doma

[prime verge]

i agree but i feel as tho she shouldnt get an amnesia pass to just run around and do whatever now. not saying thats what ur implying but yeah

[wind bough]

Or he can explain what's going on

[maiden lodge]

Fordola is a similar thematic situation because she's willing to face justice, but what the people want isn't justice either.

[wind bough]

like he already did to a public gathering.

[unique verge]

Yeah but still.....you know thats only so effective

I think Exile is a fair solution

[prime verge]

i wonder what yall think of gaius then

[random ravine]

what is the current status of fordola?

[wind bough]

And if people become angered by it, then that's something to manage.

[prime verge]

cause he was literally the og war criminal

but now hes like

heehee garlean dad go brrr

[maiden lodge]

She's working her ass off doing penance through hard combat labor

[unique verge]

Gaius is a bit of a strange subject

[wind bough]

Gaius is not a good man, yeah.

[maiden lodge]

And in Fordola's case, she agrees with it

[prime verge]

fordola is so good

[lime estuary]

FYI Amnesia is not a defence in most places, however it CAN be argued as unfit to attend trial.

[wind bough]

The way you're talking it's like you're expecting to catch people out on hypocrisy or something

[unique verge]

Gaius is like......by imperial standards, not that bad, but by everyone else standards, really bad. Its sort of a classic case of "how do you handle someone who has basically been brainwashed their entire life to have a certain belief/moral code"

[strange wing]

Is Gauis being a groomer still canon?

[patent axle]

yEs BuT hE gOoD nOw

[prime verge]

i dont remember gaius being brainwashed. you could say nero or varis was brainwashed

but not gaius..?

[unique verge]

Everyone in empire is, is the way i look at it

[patent axle]

Gaius was not brainwashed, he was misled

[flat merlin]

All garleans are puppets to Ascians

[patent axle]

But he's still an asshole

[random ravine]

how is gaius a war criminal? i know what he did caused untold suffering, but did he directly commit or order any atrocities?

[unique verge]

The empire is basically operated in way that is not equivalent but analagous to societies like North Korea.

[prime verge]

dont get me wrong im kinda into the whole gaius on our side now but his whole "we forget about everything i did" thing is weird...

[eager mica]

I'm not sure that Gaius was ever a groomer. Based on what you learn in the current trail storyline... It suggests that the one underling was more obsessed than anything else.

[wind bough]

From my understanding that's because most cases of amnesia in the real world are anterograde amnesia over a short period, not complete retrograde amnesia which almost never happens in the real world

[patent axle]

I'm just making fun of yotsuyu simps smhhh

[unique verge]

complete retrograde generally comes along with a nice side dish of brain damage

[wind bough]

Gaius was indoctrinated by virtue of being born in the Garlean Empire, yes

[prime verge]

lol its so funny how so much media does the amnesia thing

despite it usually being linked to intense brain damage that causes more than just memory probelms

[prime verge]

you could say this about zenos too

actually scratch that

zenos is just evil

[unique verge]

I have some sympathy for Gaius and Regula, and other "not entirely monstrous" imperial commanders after we found out that the Ascians have been running that empire since inception

[patent axle]

Zenos is such a bad vilain

[prime verge]

doesnt matter where he was born lol

[wind bough]

Yeah you can 100% say that about Zenos

[unique verge]

Valens on the other hand is inexcusable

[patent axle]

probably the most poorly written out of them all

[prime verge]

maybe zenos is evil bc his dad never loved him cause hes too busy having grandpa issues

[eager mica]

Gaius was alwys sort of presented as "noble villian".

[prime verge]

i can agree w this

[maiden lodge]

Gaius isn't realy presented that way

[wind bough]

People in general are products of their upbringings.

[strange wing]

You could say its...

[maiden lodge]

Gaius is presented as someone who thinks they are noble, but is very very wrong.

[strange wing]

Wasnt his intention

[maiden lodge]

Gaius, however... comes to understand.

[wind bough]

Justice is a mechanism to prevent harm.

[unique verge]

The big problem with the empire and imperials is that they've all been presented with a pretty gigantic lie

[prime verge]

true, but u can see hints of humanity within him that some garleans do not have

gaius doesnt rlly wanna murder a bunch of ppl like other garleans do

[maiden lodge]

Some don't. But others do, such as Gabranth

[prime verge]

mhm

[heady shadow]

btw Nero is then a shitter for fixing the ultima weapon

[prime verge]

my sexy dude vitus quo messalla

[patent axle]

Hi I love Gabranth

[teal geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/spit-take-laughing-lmao-gif-9271317

[maiden lodge]

The game however isn't as 'morally grey' on these things as one would say. Many of these characters are obviously wrong--but driven to wrongness by a combination of good intentions and bad advice

[heady shadow]

which the research btw is now in the hands of Valens

[wind bough]

No one's evil for no reason.

[maiden lodge]

The message that says is that one needs to be careful not to let 'good intentions' excuse their bad actions--but also to forgive those who have the capacity to change

[unique verge]

The Burn being the basis of that initial lie, and what built from it. The Garleans have reason to believe that the rest of the world is not just antagonistic towards them individually, but are an active threat to them. They have real reason to believe that every other society on the planet is a risk of causing "The Burn" to happen elsewhere.

[eager mica]

That's sort of the definition of morally grey, isn't it? Morally grey settings don't always have grey and black mortality.

[teal geyser]

~~Fandaniel would like to have a word ~~

[maiden lodge]

You have the 'good intention' but the conclusion is genocide? See how A does not lead to B?

[eager mica]

Sometimes they have very black and white morality, but characters who don't see it.

[maiden lodge]

But they're manipulated into thinking that.

[wind bough]

Fandaniel's got reasons

[heady shadow]

Oh i remember a jurassic park quote.

""Some of the worst things happened with the best intentions""

[wind bough]

I mean we don't entirely know what they are

but for some reason he's driven to destruction

[eager mica]

Also; I feel like I'm the only one who likes Zenos and Fandaniel as villians.

[teal geyser]

Sure Lyon I'm just making a joke about what he said

[wind bough]

I like Zenos as a villain

[maiden lodge]

Im on that team

[prime verge]

true, however id say emet is portrayed morally grey. as alisaie put it "but would i not have done the same?"

[unique verge]

I do hope that my feeling that Fandaniel turns out to have been a traitor from day one pans out.

[patent axle]

I don't like Zenos I think he's bland

[random ravine]

i honestly can't remember an instance in ARR where gaius was cruel or "evil". i mean, yes, he waged war against eorzea, and caused massive civilian casualties as a result, but you can't say he's a war criminal on that basis

[wind bough]

I like Fandaniel as a Large Ham, don't know enough about him yet to say whether I'll like him as a character concept in the end

[unique verge]

because it takes him from "comic relief tier lol-so-random" villain to something much more interesting

[eager mica]

Just BECAUSE after like... So many years of complex villians, it's nice to have some dudes I can just feel good about killing.

[maiden lodge]

That's the thing though, he's shown to be wrong, in the end. He causes doubt--but eventually, even he realizes he was wrong.

[prime verge]

trust me, i heard "fandaniel is hiding a complex secret" i went OOF

[teal geyser]

He indoctrinated children, supported Nael and the empire in dropping a moon on a continent, burtalised the Ala Mhigan people

[eager mica]

Plus, I sort of like how Zenos is my person Scott Synder Joker to my Batman.

[teal geyser]

what else am I missing?

[prime verge]

yeah exactly, he is wrong in what he does, but his motivations and wishes and even some of his actions can be understood

[eager mica]

*persona

*personal

[prime verge]

we spend half the expansion wondering if we're truly the heroes or not

even the cutscene rewatch thing in the inn room says "you have done a great and terrible thing" to describe emet's death

[unique verge]

The thing with Gaius in those scenarios, and what makes things difficult to unravel, is that as compared to other imperial commanders he wasnt as bad - but still objectively horrible by our standards. I remember this specifically being covered a few times regarding the occupation of Ala Mhigo.

[prime verge]

this

i find the whole idea of emet's thought process interesting. he justifies murder by thinking it doesnt count as murder at all.

[kindred meteor]

he occupied Ala Mhigo without firing a single shot

[random ravine]

i dont recall the children indoctrination thing and i dont know the politics behind of a decision in dropping dalamud, but i thought it was Zenos who brutalized the Ala Mhigan people?

[patent axle]

i mean what

[kindred meteor]

no lol

[prime verge]

i saw that and i wish i hadnt

[kindred meteor]

anyways ignoring horny

[patent axle]

you didn't see anything why are you lying

[prime verge]

okay lets pretend i didnt see it

[patent axle]

I'm not horny for Emet-Selch

I'm horny for evertone EXCEPT

Aymeric

[prime verge]

😐

[patent axle]

fuck that guy

He can go rot in hell

[kindred meteor]

[prime verge]

youre gonna get kicked

HJKBNFJHDSBAFJHBASDHJFBASDF

[patent axle]

Plus his hair looks like a salad

[prime verge]

h o w

[patent axle]

idk

[teal geyser]

1. 1.0 thing mostly
2. he was against meteor but when it was given the go ahead he still went "fine okay"
3. 90% of everything you see in Ala Mhigo started with Gaius, building the wall to keep everyone in, blowing up all the roads and bridges to stop any sort of rebellion, making the Skulls to brutalise people, stealing all their food and resources, generally allowing his men to do whatever, Zenos made it worse but it was already very very bad before

[heady shadow]

btw last i remember wasnt it Gaius who didnt want the moon dropped? and actually helped the 1.0 WoL tell the alliance about it happening?

[patent axle]

it reminds me of some salad

[prime verge]

his hair is literally just black

[teal geyser]

He only did that last part AFTER like, the ENTIRE MSQ and also getting absolutely fucking roasted by Cid

And even then

it was the most non helpful help

[patent axle]

dye them green and you'll see a salad

[heady shadow]

i mean you can only do so much whehn dalamud fell past a certain point

[patent axle]

Imagine getting kicked because you say "fuck that guy" about one character

I saw worse here

[teal geyser]

He had soooooooooooooo much time before that point

[prime verge]

dye emet's hair green and its also a salad

[prime verge]

its boutta happen

[patent axle]

Nah

[teal geyser]

it wasn't like he just showed up after Dalamud was already low

Gaius had so fucking long to stop it

and he did not

he was part of it

[patent axle]

Emet's hair don't have the salad vibes

[prime verge]

what

[prime verge]

what are your thoughts on the one and only graha tia

[random ravine]

ok so his reaction to Lahabrea in Praetorium isn't really consistent with his backstory then. Because he was horrified by the amount of damage that Ultima did, even thought it wasn't really that much

[patent axle]

People : talking about politics in FFIXV

me :

aymeric reminds me of a salad

[prime verge]

aymeric is a beautiful salad then

[patent axle]

Bland in ARR, interesting in ShB, didn't finish post ShB yet

[prime verge]

enjoy lol

[teal geyser]

No it's consistent, dude just blew up his entire fucking castrum without his fucking consent and also in a single blast. That is truly such devestation and was not his intention

[prime verge]

i find him cute in arr mostly bc catboy 🥰

SUCH D E V A S T A T I O N

[patent axle]

I have a problem with cat people

[wind bough]

The takeover of Ala Mhigo was relatively swift and didn't face much opposition, but it was not at all bloodless.

[patent axle]

especially catgirls