Emet makes these people and gives them different personalities, they aren't all the personality of Emet
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
teal geyser
maiden lodge
No of course not--an author's characters don't all act like the author. But do they not all reflect the author's thoughts and feelings?
somber storm
Anyone got that Emet hugging image?
maiden lodge
Not all the time Dis
It's highly rare an author doesn't put themselves on the page. And in this case, Hythlodaeus informs us that Emet does in fact do so, whether he wants to or not.
teal geyser
It's highly rare an author doesn't put themselves on the page. And in this case...
for himself specifically
maiden lodge
You can write a character that you just can't agree with
Writing a character you disagree with, and then playing out said disagreement, is still an act of putting yourself on the page.
maiden lodge
for himself specifically
Which is implied to extend to everything else.
gaunt star
What emet really should have done is imagine a chiropractor
teal geyser
Dude is literally "maybe he was distracted WITH ME"
maiden lodge
Hythlodaeus is special because he's self-aware, and he posits his self-awareness is because of Emet's distraction
worn bloom
Just gonna put this here
maiden lodge
But he's not special in that there exists nothing in Amaurot that isn't a product of Emet's creation.
worn bloom
woeful dagger
What emet really should have done is imagine a chiropractor
Why didn't Emet just imagine Zodiark and that would summon Zodiark to Dream Zanarkand Amaurot
teal geyser
But he's not special in that there exists nothing in Amaurot that isn't a produc...
Irrelevant
maiden lodge
If it's in Amaurot, either it's by Emet's Design, or by Emet's Subconscious. NO exceptions.
The author has put himself on the page.
teal geyser
Okay we can ignore the Hyth point now if you want
maiden lodge
So either he has a shade that refers to us as a child -on purpose- or he has it -by accident- but in either case, he did it.
No one else did.
woeful dagger
https://twitter.com/i/status/1294843745742053376
Where's Ascian Prime in this vid
worn bloom
Implying that Emet isn't enough?
maiden lodge
If the elevator welcomes us as a guest, by name, that's an invitation by Emet--that's not some Amaurot thing he's accurately recreating.
woeful dagger
If Emet is dead does that mean Amaurot ends as well
maiden lodge
If Emet is dead does that mean Amaurot ends as well
Slowly over time, yes. Though any programs it may have that remain undiscovered can still be uncovered.
maiden lodge
Ah, so you're saying Final Days (Hard) in 6.0
Yoshi P is.
worn bloom
Soundwalker
maiden lodge
Soundwalker
woeful dagger
Amaurot (Hard) and The Dying Gasp (Extreme) in 6.1 will be lit
teal geyser
The Dying Gasp (Extreme)
this exists already though
kind lark
Ultimate
signal solar
dying gasp unreal
worn bloom
I would kill for some 4-man content that wasn't complete faceroll.
worn bloom
I don't really enjoy how it's either faceroll or team jump rope in terms of difficulty.
rough kestrel
4 man content on par with normal raids would be a nice start
They're a fair bit tougher than dungeons but pretty cruisey if you know the fight at all
worn bloom
I just want to be challenged a bit and not have to worry a single mistake wipes everyone.
rough kestrel
I mean that is normal raids
You have to DO mechanics but a couple of deaths arent guaranteed wipe
worn bloom
Yeah I suppose.
cinder badger
There needs to be more Koji Fox memes
woeful dagger
the meme game of FF14 has only recently picked up. give it time.
worn bloom
There are plenty of memes to be found
somber storm
pine epoch
worn bloom
I remember that old video that talked about gathering outside the game. It featured people whacking trees and rocks with their phones.
cinder badger
I forget what he was saying when he made that face
woeful dagger
https://youtu.be/9Fqe2xF0Alc
This meme eludes me
somber storm
Basically the squatting minigame from 7r
worn bloom
somber storm
Basically the Dads and Uncle/Aunt WoL are eavesdropping and not interfering in Ryne trying to make friends with Gaia
woeful dagger
Bunker in a nutshell
woeful dagger
Balmung sometimes lmao
kind lark
Can we get a shout-out to Soken? the man who brings us jams
rugged kiln
yesh
woeful dagger
soken deez nuts
teal geyser
the meme game of FF14 has only recently picked up. give it time.
No it hasn't
somber storm
teal geyser
Let's not forget Koji Fox made a Yanny and Laurel joke back in ARR before the meme even existed
somber storm
Koji Fox channelling the power of Kojima
balmy mesa
Let's not forget Koji Fox made a Yanny and Laurel joke back in ARR before the me...
or it's possible that the description was updated after the laurel and yanny meme became a thing
they do go back to older content once in a while
teal geyser
well yes and no
You ALWAYS gave laurel bushes to a character called Yanny
but they ALSO
went back and put the same joke into the laurel bush description
so they want back and double joked it
balmy mesa
aha
teal geyser
but the first one already did exist
rain onyx
Masters of the future
heady shadow
yeah but that was before he was a boomer
He taught english at a jp highschool before working for SE xD
gaunt star
spiral wagon
is cryptlurker melded better or is laws order penta meld gear better?
gentle terrace
What the hell is Laws Order
spiral wagon
the 5 slot 510 gear you get from bozja
gentle terrace
Oh
gentle terrace
Cryptlurker should be better since it's 10 ilvl higher than that
unreal wadi
Base stats are always better
@gentle terrace unless you count eden's verse
when pld, gnb & drk were running ilvl 499 gearsets
odd yoke
Tank helms were trash anyway
gentle terrace
Base stats are always better
There are people out there that actually think otherwise 
gaunt star
There are people out there that actually think otherwise <:yoshifacepalm:5812214...
"Base stats are always better" is wrong
It's not unusual at all for 5 slot gear to beat 2 slot gear 10 ilvls higher
rough kestrel
Much like Sephirot/Powerman 5000
The trailer song reminds me of something specific
Did anyone manage to find whatever it was similar to
I want to say it's something 90's/early 00s
maiden lodge
The trailer song reminds me of something specific
It does have a grudge vibe to it
rough kestrel
The vocals kind of made me think Nirvana
maiden lodge
Very alt-rock
iron scaffold
The vocals kind of made me think Nirvana
Pretty much yea
maiden lodge
Base stats are always better
'losing 1% or more damage worth of secondary stats is worth gaining 0.6% damage from a main stat' is the sort of thing that gets tanks and healers to make questionable gearing decisions
And makes math people cringe
maiden lodge
But you made a mathematical statement.
unreal wadi
maiden lodge
There are people out there that actually think otherwise <:yoshifacepalm:5812214...
Yes, some people can do math.
odd yoke
Construct 7: 5+3
maiden lodge
Construct 7: 5+3
Construct 10: Okay but with a knockback, let's add some geometry to your algrebra
odd yoke
Construct 14: Now with forced March
maiden lodge
Construct 14: Now with forced March
AHAHAHA
Construct f(14): 'Integrate by parts bitches'
Trinity: "n+y=0"
spiral wagon
<@198906590802214913> crypt.
well than its a good thing im giving the laws order gear to my whm and crypt to my drk
maiden lodge
ahaha
unreal wadi
is the exact same stats and substats of exarchic
maiden lodge
is the exact same stats and substats of exarchic
fun fact
5 slots > 2 slots + overmelds
maiden lodge
Yeah, that's +80
spiral wagon
is the exact same stats and substats of exarchic
i am well aware. but im pentalmelding it all for my whm
also i really like the glam
(if only the bunny ears fit inside the helmet)
maiden lodge
oh hey that actually has me thinking
I should see if it is an upgrade for me
Oh it iiiiiiissss
north ibex
The WoL and the scions pulling up to the moon be like
cinder badger
Eh nvm I'll put that in memes
maiden lodge
I think the law's order chest on casters is the same rigging as Emet's outfit
unique verge
Repost that samurai image
This is the only samurai image anyone needs
north ibex
cinder badger
unique verge
Random thought
Kinda weird that the put the WoL as a PLD but didnt have him use any magic
other than glowy shield which who knows wtf thats even supposed to be
cinder badger
Maybe they'll add more to it
It's only the first trailer you know how they do things
cinder badger
That's not Shield Bash
cinder badger
Shield bash doesn't look even half as cool as that
odd yoke
But trailer cg
cinder badger
At least you could tell that Alisaie use verholy
unique verge
I mean, i predicted it would be PLD or RDM
open verge
I mean
odd yoke
She tried scorch but got animation cancelled
unique verge
Meanwhile BLM/SMN/WHM simps be raging
gaunt star
They had the chance to go all out and deck wol in some cool ffiv Cecil armor instead we got basic gladiator shit
urban frigate
ahhh but yenno, animating each single follicle of fur on a carbuncle and ajkdfas;dljf small indie company stahpppp :c
heady shadow
yeee boi
unique verge
Bud
heady shadow
gonna preorder me some SE shirts
unique verge
They cant even get Alisaie's hair right
urban frigate
i saw that hahaha
unique verge
the fuck you think they're gonna get a carbuncle right
urban frigate
extra hair tie
gaunt star
Shield bash doesn't look even half as cool as that
That looked more like Shield Swipe
unique verge
For those unfamiliar with phantom hair tie. 1:44 in official trailer.
gaunt star
I feel like the full trailer will have more of the WoL and the twins fighting instead of it just going to Fannydanny right away
maiden lodge
I feel like it'll have more 'what are the others up to' like how the early cut for Shadowbringers' trailer ONLY had 'I promise Minfillia' but they added more over time.
tropic frigate
i wanna see it show what zenos and fan is on
gaunt star
A tower
unique verge
i wanna see it show what zenos and fan is on
Crack cocaine
tropic frigate
is it really a tower?
maiden lodge
is it really a tower?
They... pan... up... the... tower.
gaunt star
Zeno's is also infront of a burning city which is probably either Garlemald or that one place in the dungeon art
unique verge
Its Garlemald
heady shadow
Hmm.....
Should I get the Sin Eater girl Hoodie or T shirt?
maiden lodge
Also interesting observation--the dropping meteor we get a close up of in that scene doesn't look like rock, it looks like it's a piece of tech
signal solar
t-shirt hoodie
maiden lodge
its a ship as far as i can tell
That's what Im saying
heady shadow
it;s a Grlmld shit
tropic frigate
to me it looked like a ship
unique verge
a crashing garlean airship
brisk quail
Also interesting observation--the dropping meteor we get a close up of in that ...
That's a ship a garlean ship
tropic frigate
that was falling
unique verge
He's basically just burning Garlemald to the ground for "reasons"
maiden lodge
Yeah I get that. But it's also a reference to the final days, which makes me wonder if those were never meteors to begin with.
heady shadow
looked bigger
urban frigate
I'm 1000000000% sure that hair tie will be fixed in the next version of the trailer
urban frigate
some poor sap probably got bitched out SO hard lol
maiden lodge
He's basically just burning Garlemald to the ground for "reasons"
Or watching it burn, like he's been doing for months now
gaunt star
I wonder if they'll show Zenos's new weapon in action in 5.5 or if they'll wait until 6.0 to show it
signal solar
the handle on the scythe when it zooms into the burning airship briefly disappears
craggy gale
a sin eater booba hoodie that you probably shouldnt wear in public
signal solar
2 frames
heady shadow
theres some fan art I dont know who did it.
maiden lodge
a sin eater booba hoodie that you probably shouldnt wear in public<:sus:80502107...
At least it's not an ahegao (sp) shirt
barren karma
I wanna sin eater onesie
heady shadow
maiden lodge
I wanna sin eater onesie
so did vauthry
heady shadow
urban frigate
that explains why Zenos broke all his other swords. his bored ass wants a new weapon
heady shadow
I do not have a source because the person who put them in the discord channel didnt provide it
unique verge
the Scythe thing is getting dumb
coral kite
people think Zenos had a scythe in the trailer but
urban frigate
they've shown him breaking 2 of his 3 swords at this point
coral kite
I think it's kjust a piece of the chair?
maiden lodge
But honestly, the problem with 'he gets a scythe' is unless it has some sort of magitek or enchantment, zenos.... can't... do shit with it.
He's still Garlean.
urban frigate
ACKCHUALLY
coral kite
But pls let Zenos keep his sword
urban frigate
he has the resonant
barren karma
I'd prefer that scythe if the handel was bigger....it looks lopsided
coral kite
it's his whole cool guy thing
heady shadow
he broke it though
maiden lodge
he has the resonant
The echo doesn't give you the ability to channel aether if you're aether ocked
brisk quail
But honestly, the problem with 'he gets a scythe' is unless it has some sort of ...
Or it's an ancient relic from mcach or from the demon towers or whatever
brisk quail
It's clearly NOT of garlean decent
coral kite
Yea but he can always
urban frigate
lmao
coral kite
get another sword
maiden lodge
he has the resonant\
'He doesn't have the echo, he just has the echo'
brisk quail
And it seems follows the deisgn of the of the tower
unique verge
idk
urban frigate
resonant isnt the echo at all
unique verge
Functionally in combat he basically may as well have aether
urban frigate
it's the garleans own creation
maiden lodge
resonant isnt the echo at all
You might need to redo stormblood, my friend. The resonant is when they copy the echo and give it to someone artificially.
unique verge
Like, the abilities he uses while in combat dont seem to be magitek related.
so it stands to reason its from resonance
otherwise he'd just autoattack
urban frigate
"The Resonant are Garlean supersoldiers in Final Fantasy XIV imbued with a powerful artificial version of the Echo (Elidibus considered the Resonant a "borrowed Echo".). They can manipulate the power of the aether to detect minor changes in it to predict and avoid incoming attacks. The Resonant project was developed by the Garlean scientist Aulus mal Asina to overcome his people's natural inability to use magic."
barren karma
I dunno i kinda dig Zenos with a scythe...it's better thain his weird sword golf bag
brisk quail
This is why people think it's a scythe
maiden lodge
'the resonant is not the echo' provides quote saying it obstensibly is
brisk quail
Forgive my bad drawing abilities
maiden lodge
Yer trolling now.
unique verge
This is why people think it's a scythe
That isnt remotely a scythe though. Thats not even close to a scythe.
worn bloom
Him potentially using a scythe really isn't solid proof of anything.
brisk quail
Imagine it with q curve
unique verge
That's like....a lopsided hammer
gaunt star
Clearly he is going to be a botanist
brisk quail
You're really gonna bitch about my drawing.
urban frigate
if the resonant was the echo, it would just be called "the echo" and not "fake echo 2.0 great value generic version"
brisk quail
gaunt star
One message removed from a suspended account.
unique verge
Unless the curve of the "blade" is steeper than the damned chair (which would make it absolutely useless in combat) its not a scythe.
maiden lodge
Zenos LITERALLY says it's the echo while showing us how to use the echo to hijack a primal
worn bloom
That'd be funny
unique verge
Nobody knows what the fuck that is
Though plenty of people wanna claim its something
lol
neat edge
new melee job :3
gaunt star
One message removed from a suspended account.
One message removed from a suspended account.
brisk quail
unique verge
Its more reasonable than attempting to get to scythe from that
dim sigil
heady shadow
so in the of chance it is a scythe.
your going to say you were wrong right?
unique verge
No, i'm not
There is nothing in that image to indicate that thing is a scythe
if there was, i would agree and say its a reasonable guess
somber storm
Zenos with that switchglaive from Nioh
dim sigil
It can easily be part of the chair
heady shadow
well then dont get disappointed if you happen to be wrong
gaunt star
One message removed from a suspended account.
heady shadow
: )
gaunt star
One message removed from a suspended account.
worn bloom
I do think there is a weapon there, if it was a part of the chair I would think it'd be symmetrical.
unique verge
I dont care what it is. I just think that people making assumptions based on that image are being ridiculous
worn bloom
Yeah
heady shadow
well thats what people do
brisk quail
Thin shaft.
Curved top.
Non-sharpened top section. Possibly refering to a singular sharpened edge.
And its not equal on both sides. So it can't be an axe
Likr a dual sided ax
heady shadow
make assumptions ad speculate lol
brisk quail
Unless it's the hilt and its reversed. Which would make no sense...
worn bloom
This is the community that is encouraged to speculate based on t-shirts.
brisk quail
Since the shaft is so thin
We have to assume the blade/blunt end is fairly light
Since the shaft hints at that
maiden lodge
This is the community that is encouraged to speculate based on t-shirts.
Yes, but that's actually historically been a clue.
worn bloom
I'm not disagreeing with that notion
maiden lodge
I mean this could also be 'Nidhogg has feathered wings' country
viscid glade
that is absolutely a sytche
maiden lodge
that is absolutely a sytche
Sythes have blades, that does not. More likely to be hammer.
worn bloom
Anime styled scythe weapons always look unwieldy.
odd yoke
The extended trailer will probably have zeno stand up and hold it, or at least grab it
brisk quail
Sythes have blades, that does not. More likely to be hammer.
You mean no visible edge
viscid glade
idk i feel like zenos would keep it as a blade
maiden lodge
Yes the one thing one needs to say it's 'absolutely a scythe' is not there, yes.
worn bloom
I mean we won't know until May.
neat edge
lets say its zenos' walking stick
brisk quail
It's not like we get a price for correct predictions here.
Wrong. I'll buy myself a cookie if I'm right.
And buy myself one if I'm wrong too
heady shadow
its just for fun
maiden lodge
And wouldn't you think SQEX would love to tease us like that?
Not through incomplete trailers with animation discontinuities
viscid glade
drowsy ivy
Pimp stick
Pimp job confirmed
heady shadow
also why would he get a hammer?
viscid glade
its gotta be a blade
heady shadow
it doesnt fit his fighting style last I checked
worn bloom
Because I like hammers.
brisk quail
That honestly seems outta character for Zenos
heady shadow
rip and tear
tardy ingot
Zenos is too edgy for a hammer
viscid glade
i will admit the gaia hammer in 5.2 made me think it might be hammer next but
ehhhh
EHHHHHHHHHHH
i want it to be a scythe job
maiden lodge
it doesnt fit his fighting style last I checked
SO DOES A SCYTHE kek
unique verge
Why are we so convinced that Zenos will be the same weapon as the new job anyway?
tardy ingot
Speculation
unique verge
That's got even less evidence than the chair picture
brisk quail
I'll more realistically see Zenos with a Glaive or Scythe than a hammer
tardy ingot
Idk
tardy ingot
You can barely tell if its a scythe or not so idk
heady shadow
wait.
worn bloom
Yes a blurry photo, scythe confirmed.
maiden lodge
then why he break the swords
His combat style was that of a katana user who uses a magitek golfbag to make his swords aetherically capable.
A scythe is not that. Where's he gonna keep his golfbag?
unique verge
Not to mention, and ive said this repeatedly
drowsy ivy
Looks more like a pick axe tbh
lost raft
i wonder
has the ragnarok blade appeared anywhere in xiv?
unique verge
Look at the color on the chair and on the "thing"
maiden lodge
See? Using the logic 'It's not his combat style' doesn't matter, cause we KNOW he's changing combat styles
somber storm
Glaive
unique verge
Its literally either clipping into the chair or its PART of the chair.
somber storm
Odachi
heady shadow
lemma go see something
urban frigate
tbh I don't want Zenos to become new Ranjit, but they went out of the way to show us him breaking 2 of his 3 swords so far, and I do wonder about that.
viscid glade
heady shadow
I see a rod
somber storm
tbh I don't want Zenos to become new Ranjit, but they went out of the way to sho...
1 sword we broke
drowsy ivy
CASTER ZENOS
brisk quail
I see a rod
Zenos mage zenos mage
tropic frigate
they also could have potentially left something unfinished :^)
teal geyser
Its literally either clipping into the chair or its PART of the chair.
maybe he just stepped on his scythe and broke it 
viscid glade
either way im going into hibernation until may
somber storm
Seatbelt
unique verge
maybe he just stepped on his scythe and broke it <:haha:240841245239410688>
That's about what value i place on Scythe predictions, so maybe you're on to something
urban frigate
1 sword we broke
Is it 1? He broke one killling his dad, and broke another by stepping on it. Or is this the same one?
unique verge
We broke one at Rhalgr's Reach
urban frigate
1 sword we broke
wait, i misunderstood
maiden lodge
The issue with him changing weapons is because he's Garlean, he can't just take up a new discipline and fight with full effect. He needs to channel aether from somewhere (no, the Resonant doesn't do this) and so he needs to find a powerful weapon that can channel tons of aether.
None of that says 'therefore it's a scythe.'
untold gull
oh hey, we're on scythe convo again
teal geyser
to be fair the one that broke when he killed his dad was just a generic sword, not on of the ones he owned
heady shadow
I knew it. It's a Diablo Scepter
lime estuary
People think its a scythe cause the object on his chsir is vaguely scythe shaped and yoshi wore two shirts that had a reaper on it. Take from that what you will
urban frigate
so then all 3 are broken lmaoooo
maiden lodge
It doesn't say it can't be, but
open verge
Didn’t lyse break one?
maiden lodge
People think its a scythe cause the object on his chsir is vaguely scythe shaped...
It's also vaguely hammer shaped
teal geyser
Or was that yugiri
neither?
unique verge
WE were teh ones who broke it
open verge
It was the helmet my bad
unique verge
at Rhalgr's Reach
viscid glade
i feel like in this frame we should be able to see the weapon
heady shadow
It's also vaguely hammer shaped
my brain went to axe.
floral aurora
I want the new intro song now
maiden lodge
We broke a katana of his, but he replaced it.
teal geyser
Yeah we broke on one of his swords, he broke the cool one, the other sword never broke
lost raft
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/cckcZ64ftsfN2McDHBdl1Rfene_lewU2rnBwaJnqGr4/%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D81178151bf290959cecf07b039f869002a1e2c37/https/preview.redd.it/ly732wsjzvf61.jpg?width=1099&height=676
the shirts, we might be getting this as a job
viscid glade
and he stepped on his own katana
floral aurora
More I listen to it, I think it beats Shadowbringers song
unique verge
We arent getting that as a job
the new job is maiming
that looks like cloth armor
urban frigate
One definitely was broken when he killed Varis
teal geyser
Yeah I don't think that's the job but for different reasons
viscid glade
same
maiden lodge
that looks like cloth armor
that's person specific, can't make that level of conclusion
viscid glade
ive been listening to remakes and covers of it
teal geyser
I'm really really hoping it's just Sice from Type 0
viscid glade
just to appease myself
floral aurora
Thought the new Job was Zenos
viscid glade
i want the full version
brisk quail
I'm really really hoping it's just Sice from Type 0
Dark Nebula go brrr
teal geyser
Thought the new Job was Zenos
floral aurora
i want the full version
Full version is going to rekt Shadowbringers
viscid glade
IT BETTER
urban frigate
agree
heady shadow
he;s going to use an axe
teal geyser
Like Sice is the nice blend of using scythe and kinda having dark stuff without it being full blown edgy reaper bullshit that sucks
drowsy ivy
Just because they mentioned Dragoon and melee dps in the same sentence doesn't guarantee that it will be maiming
floral aurora
<:penos:711687390410047558>
I noticed how they kept saying end of Zodiark arc but not Zenos lol
brisk quail
Like Sice is the nice blend of using scythe and kinda having dark stuff without ...
Big agree
ruby hull
Why are people doing mental gymnastics to argue that we are not getting a Scythe? xD
maiden lodge
Saying that a scythe user like Ran'jit or even that specific job can't be because maiming, would be like saying Gunbreaker can't be tank because
It's a formally bad argument.
teal geyser
Saying that a scythe user like Ran'jit or even that specific job can't be becaus...
hey man, iron clad abs
floral aurora
Lets be real here, how many thought we were getting a melee dps? Lol
teal geyser
Me
urban frigate
I just wanna know why Emet-Selch was the one narrating the trailer. I want to understand this so badly.
teal geyser
I was NOT expecting a scythe though
viscid glade
what igf
lime estuary
Caster seemed most obvious, but im not mad
maiden lodge
Why are people doing mental gymnastics to argue that we are not getting a Scythe...
I'm not saying we're not getting a scythe. I'm saying 'it's not conclusive, at all, and no, that isn't definately a scythe in that picture, because it lacks a blade we can see.'
floral aurora
I was sure it was magical
ruby hull
I even called Scythe maiming weeks ago
maiden lodge
I just wanna know why Emet-Selch was the one narrating the trailer. I want to un...
It's the dialog from Amaurot.
brisk quail
emet does the wacky thing ardbert did in 5.0
Emet inside me?
ruby hull
Lore spoilers channel
lime estuary
Next expansion after EW we'll get what? Caster and ranged? 2 dps.
urban frigate
All of it?
maiden lodge
It's Emet narrating the final days, from Amaurot, as a way of saying 'Remember the final days? Here it comes'
urban frigate
Ahhhhh
teal geyser
I was sure it was magical
I was very strongly believing it'd be a spellblade, like rune knight and that kinda stuff, preferably a sword but accepted glaive since some people suggested that. I'm still kinda salty it's not that
urban frigate
So none of the trailer narration was new?
woeful dagger
Next expansion after EW we'll get what? Caster and ranged? 2 dps.
Two ranged physical dps
maiden lodge
So none of the trailer narration was new?
Not necessarily?
maiden lodge
Yeah like, it's a rerecording
teal geyser
it's not reused
urban frigate
No i mean like
maiden lodge
The voice actor rerecorded it
teal geyser
The voice actor rerecorded it
He never says it in the first place
it's not a rerecording
woeful dagger
It's new info because it's Emet narrating
urban frigate
not re-used dialogue, but specifically the things he said wer the same things he said inthe dungeon?
woeful dagger
and he should be dead rn
ruby hull
Wait till May will be long
maiden lodge
He never says it in the first place
Yes he does, it's what he says in Amaurot as you go through it
teal geyser
He NEVER says "far edge of fate" in game
lime estuary
I hope we see CG graha in the extended trailer
maiden lodge
'far edge of fate' is different, but the 'tooth and claw' is
urban frigate
okay. so now I'm back to wondering lol. Why is it him saying this, once again
teal geyser
Okay that's fine, so long as you make it clear it's not ALL reused
lime estuary
Also isnt there a chance next patch will show Zenos' new weapon? Or illude to it?
heady spear
Isn't it fandaniel who says it?
teal geyser
Nah that's Emet Noct
floral aurora
So none of the trailer narration was new?
I honestly think SE is giving up on adding anymore jobs from FFXI. So they can make stuff that fits better with ffxiv. I'm okay with that, since we got most of the popular jobs from FFXi
teal geyser
Also isnt there a chance next patch will show Zenos' new weapon? Or illude to it...
very likely
floral aurora
@teal geyser
woeful dagger
okay. so now I'm back to wondering lol. Why is it him saying this, once again
Cause he's the only Ascian that seems to be at least not completely devoted to Zodiark
teal geyser
but it might be a 5.55 thing
floral aurora
That was for you
urban frigate
I thought it was Fandaniel too lol but after relistening to the JP version it's deffo Emet
woeful dagger
Since he is the one who helped keep Azem's memories.
maiden lodge
I honestly think SE is giving up on adding anymore jobs from FFXI. So they can m...
FFXI stopped being the pool they grabbed jobs from long ago
urban frigate
Cause he's the only Ascian that seems to be at least not completely devoted to Z...
but he's "dead" (bunny fingers)
floral aurora
Wasn't Dancer and Gunbreaker a FFXI thing?
heady spear
The voice kinda change, so it's confusing
teal geyser
gunbreaker no
maiden lodge
They've always grabbed (when not making new jobs) stuff from other games, and if it matches FFXI, it's only because FFXI grabbed them from the same source.
teal geyser
dancer yes
lilac coyote
Hyped for moon fishing and moon mining
woeful dagger
DNC is from 11, Gunbreaker is their envisioning of what Squall/Lightning would be like in 14.
lilac coyote
Botany... Do we have trees on the moon?
maiden lodge
FFXI doesn't have a lot of jobs unique to it--I think Puppetmaster is literally the only one?
teal geyser
Well the moon has oxygen so clearly yes Luin
woeful dagger
Botany... Do we have trees on the moon?
Presumably there's some ancient culture there that has some biodome.
maiden lodge
Everything else is from something else entirely
lilac coyote
I thought Corsair was unique
floral aurora
I thought Sage was the first exclusive ffxiv job, but its Gunbreaker?
maiden lodge
You're right, and Corsair, thank you
teal geyser
FFXI doesn't have a lot of jobs unique to it--I think Puppetmaster is literally ...
FFIV I guess
maiden lodge
I thought Sage was the first exclusive ffxiv job, but its Gunbreaker?
Astrologian, actually
maiden lodge
FFIV I guess
ehhhh, After Years
unique verge
The moon is kinda weird. If they're going to try and portray the moon as having stuff on it, these trailers are doing a good job of painting them into a corner.
teal geyser
That's still pre XI right though?
lilac coyote
Yea Astro was xiv original I think
maiden lodge
Actually I think After Years came out after XI
floral aurora
I never knew that
teal geyser
I'll check
lilac coyote
Trailer shows moon as barren outside
maiden lodge
Celphone games postdate the ps2
lilac coyote
But of course it could have a biome inside
woeful dagger
I think the Classes are mostly 14-specific too. Marauder/Lancer/Conjurer.
lilac coyote
Even in IV you went inside the moon
woeful dagger
etc.
lost raft
astro is mostly xiv original
urban frigate
I guess I'm just suspicious that they'll "bring Emet back" which would honestly disappointed after all of the events of ShB lol. And I'm wondering about this Pandaemonium thing with Blahabrea as well
lost raft
it appeared in tactics which is where the lb3 comes from
unique verge
There is no way Emet is coming back
maiden lodge
astro is mostly xiv original
kinda but it's also a reference to Orlan
floral aurora
AST could be awesome if they rework the card system
brisk quail
unique verge
Lahabrea return is a stretch but makes sense. There is no mechanic by which Emet can return
He's dead.
lilac coyote
Hahabread
modern steeple
When did SE first trademark endwalker?
floral aurora
I'm glad hes back
maiden lodge
AST could be awesome if they rework the card system
To what, where half the cards are shit again?
teal geyser
Oh yeah After Years came out 2 years after puppetmaster got released in XI @maiden lodge
lilac coyote
Well in ff2 you fought through hell/pandemonium
maiden lodge
Oh yeah After Years came out 2 years after puppetmaster got released in XI <@!27...
yeh.
woeful dagger
Lahabrea return is a stretch but makes sense. There is no mechanic by which Eme...
Unless they pull something silly like all the Ascians stole away a portion of their soul in Zodiark
modern steeple
Forspoken turned out to be incorrect
maiden lodge
So, FF14 has ZERO FF11-specific jobs
slate ridge
it's kinda sad that neutral sect is introduced in level 80 and then sage came out, meaning it could become useless
teal geyser
Forspoken turned out to be incorrect
obviously
urban frigate
The moon is kinda weird. If they're going to try and portray the moon as having...
yeah but the initial trailer is always an intentional misdirection. Like that time they showed Graha being killed by a beam to the stomach, but that scene endded up being a tiny drop in the story that changed, ultimately, nothing
floral aurora
To what, where half the cards are shit again?
Don't give up hope lol if something like Yakuza can make cards fun SE can do it too xD
slate ridge
im curious how would astro change to become more like white mage with pure heals
lime estuary
People theorised that the Lahabread raid is us literally going to hell. Or uh, the xiv version of it
Which could be cool lore
maiden lodge
Don't give up hope lol if something like Yakuza can make cards fun SE can do it ...
'damage buffs aren't fun'
unique verge
"pure heals" is such a misleading phrase
maiden lodge
Speak for yourself, slap those cards on me
lost raft
i just say regen healer tbh
floral aurora
That's why they need to rework
teal geyser
I don't think so Hiccup, I really do think they'll follow ff2 plot where pandaemonium comes OUT of hell and into the world
lost raft
yeye
unique verge
same as it is today
floral aurora
Give us Joker cards
teal geyser
not we go to hell
slate ridge
"pure heal" "barrier heal", dont we mainly use "regen" and "sheid"
maiden lodge
It's throughput healing vs. barrier healing
except 'throughput' is also misleading
unique verge
Like, "pure healer" is actually, in my opinion, a really fucking stupid word for Yoshi to ahve used.
maiden lodge
'pure heal' means literally just 'it makes green number appear.'
slate ridge
since WHM does regen
unique verge
Its a mistake that they have no business making
teal geyser
Like, "pure healer" is actually, in my opinion, a really fucking stupid word for...
"I'm a pure healer, I'm not expected to DPS right?"
unique verge
"I'm a pure healer, I'm not expected to DPS right?"
Exactly. What the fuck was he thinking.
woeful dagger
maybe they'll remake the role to not require dps
lost raft
small thought im offering for yall to shoot down
i can see regen healer not working because lily is a walking regen
woeful dagger
🙏
slate ridge
maybe pure healer as in when you heal, it's straight up heals
maiden lodge
maybe they'll remake the role to not require dps
That would require making content to not require damage to defeat.
woeful dagger
i see you've never played another mmo 
cinder badger
I still have that music from the trailer stuck in Loop inside of my head
maiden lodge
So long as damage, and nothing else, defeats content, healers will have to throw rocks.
unique verge
They already have a role for people who dont want to do DPS. DoH/DoL.
lost raft
dps is demanded of a healer
woeful dagger
all it would require is the boss to have constant rot damage and healers will not be able to DPS
urban frigate
I still have that music from the trailer stuck in Loop inside of my head
same
lost raft
they even tell you that in the novice hall
gaunt star
dps is demanded of a healer
DPS is healer.
maiden lodge
all it would require is the boss to have constant rot damage and healers will no...
Healers would still have to dps.
teal geyser
I still have that music from the trailer stuck in Loop inside of my head
May I offer you a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdV4F4i6t3A ?
woeful dagger
yeah show me those epic logs of all the Shamans in WoW doing insane dps.
cinder badger
lost raft
DPS is healer.
splicing up what i was gonna say didnt work out well haha
floral aurora
I'm no healer main but i suspect me being a Sage will be something like this.
Tank pulls big I put a bubble on them, then I dps while humming lalalala. Bubble pops, i stop dpsing for a second to put another bubble on them and rinse and repeat until mob is dead
lost raft
this isnt wow though
floral aurora
Seems simple enough
maiden lodge
yeah show me those epic logs of all the Shamans in WoW doing insane dps.
Healers in WoW are designed to have such shit dps they can't actually contribute.
Also healers in WoW dps.
Healers in WoW have been dpsing for years, don't even START there.
heady shadow
I has wonder,
Is there a dual bladed Halberd in FF games? like Duel sided swrd things?
brisk quail
You have bad examples if you just throw out WoW
gritty violet
https://youtu.be/IzuQYLaW24o
I swear is that a hippie for a character in FF14?
gaunt star
At least throw out Mabinogi.
brisk quail
When they've been DPSing for ages
gaunt star
The true MMORPG.
brisk quail
maiden lodge
'healers don't dps in WoW!'
ATONEMENT
FISTWEAVING
JUDGEMENT FOR REGENS
woeful dagger
look at all that damage lol
teal geyser
I has wonder,
Is there a dual bladed Halberd in FF games? like Duel sided swrd ...
Gabranth uses a twinsword
lost raft
Discipline Priest
maiden lodge
look at all that damage lol
Notice what number they aren't on. Notice how NONE of them are zero?
brisk quail
look at all that damage lol
Damage is damage
heady shadow
like this
brisk quail
Dummy.
brisk quail
Any damage is dps
teal geyser
Not that I can...think of Scree
woeful dagger
Notice what number they aren't on. Notice how NONE of them are zero?
Pressing Flame Shock as a Shaman means you're doing damage 🦍
maiden lodge
'healers do no dps!' shows graph showing healers doing non-zero damage
woeful dagger
Doing 5 dps is not doing real damage
teal geyser
I can only think of twinsword
lost raft
yes it is
woeful dagger
Sorry that you are pedantic enough to argue this lmao
heady shadow
I was thinking maybe if all else fails, this is our ''frienemy's weapon?
maiden lodge
Doing 5 dps is not doing real damage
Die mad about it, so what?
brisk quail
Doing 5 dps is not doing real damage
Doing damage.
maiden lodge
You're still expected to contribute.
woeful dagger
No you aren't.
lost raft
dude
brisk quail
Yes you are
maiden lodge
FFXIV just makes that contribution meaningful
ruby hull
I expect Scythe job to feature elements from FFXI DRK that cannot work in the tank version
lost raft
the novice hall literally tells healers to dps
woeful dagger
FF14 is the only MMO where the healer role is yelled at for not contributing dps.
And is why the role is the lowest playrate.
maiden lodge
FF14 is the only MMO where the healer role is yelled at for not contributing dps...
So you never played DCUO
floral aurora
I mean there aren't too many melee weapons left Except Bat, Whip, Scythe and lightsaber
brisk quail
FF14 is the only MMO where the healer role is yelled at for not contributing dps...
Guild Wars 2.
SWTOR
DCUO
maiden lodge
You never played Guild Wars 1 OR 2
woeful dagger
Okay let me rephrease
maiden lodge
You never played Neverwinter
brisk quail
Oh fuck neverwinter
teal geyser
I expect Scythe job to feature elements from FFXI DRK that cannot work in the ta...
If they don't stick exactly with Sice I can imagine this but I just hope it doesn't get too edge
woeful dagger
FF14 is the only highly played MMO that expects healers to contribute meaningful DPS.
brisk quail
That shit is crazy
maiden lodge
Okay let me rephrease
'MMOs that I cherry pick don't require healer dps'
There, that's what you mean
woeful dagger
I'm not going to consider Neverwinter when talking about MMO game design lol
urban frigate
m-maplestory 
lost raft
we just brought up that wow has a lot of dps too
maiden lodge
FF14 is the only highly played MMO that expects healers to contribute meaningful...
ESO.
gaunt star
What was that one mmo where you could go to jail and had to deal with a player-based court system to declare you guilty or not.
digital forge
me, looking at M+ and Mythic: yeah sure
unique verge
"WoW doesnt require healers to do lots of DPS, therefore its bad that FF14 expects healers to not AFK while they're not healing"
gaunt star
Whatever that was, can we bring it to FFXIV but do it to mentors.
digital forge
no healer dps there, nope
floral aurora
FF14 is the only highly played MMO that expects healers to contribute meaningful...
I wouldn't be surprised if we get Healer role changes and Melee role changes for 6.0
ruby hull
If they don't stick exactly with Sice I can imagine this but I just hope it does...
What's wrong with a scythe job having edge?
teal geyser
FF14 is the only highly played MMO that expects healers to contribute meaningful...
Are you trying to argue that GW2 isn't a highly played MMO?
maiden lodge
Okay, but here's the real thing.
unique verge
Imagine thinking GW2 isnt popular
teal geyser
What's wrong with a scythe job having edge?
idk I'm just really sour about it being really close to necromancer
warm halo
anyone know if there is a hint to job in relic quest line?
cinder badger
Scythe doesn't have to mean it's necromancer
warm halo
digital forge
no
floral aurora
Is Necromancer a FFXI thing or some other FF job?
teal geyser
anyone know if there is a hint to job in relic quest line?
Only beastmaster
warm halo
could be save the queen related
teal geyser
Is Necromancer a FFXI thing or some other FF job?
FFV GBA version
ashen pelican
Just go granblue way and have Nekomancer instead of necro
lost raft
necromancer has only appeared in heroes gauntlet and ffv gba off the top of my head
maiden lodge
Healers originally were not expected, by design, to dps. But, as they got more OGCD capability, and no additional GCD capability to heal, OGCDs turn into the primary healing resource. As they should--they're free.
And that lead to healers being asked to DPS, because DPS is helpful, and overhealing is pointless. (A point true in WoW btw)
ruby hull
I am indeed curious if it will indeed feature necromancy
floral aurora
Yeah I never played V
maiden lodge
Then they embraced that meta, and in SB and ShB, they literally design -around- Healers dpsing now as common.
maiden lodge
And it IS common, in all content, at all levels, for healers to dps, in 2021, and has been for years.
ruby hull
Might be like GW2 Reaper
unique verge
The point is that if a healer doesnt DPS, they're literally AFK for over half the fight. If you think the design intent is for healers to be literally AFK, then you might be an idiot.
floral aurora
Is it on eshop?
lost raft
wasnt the meta embraced, or at least starting, with HW and alexander?
gaunt star
If the healer doesn't DPS, you're justified in taking their lunch money.
lost raft
yeah i remember the horror stories of like
maiden lodge
wasnt the meta embraced, or at least starting, with HW and alexander?
The meta started in HW and Alexander. Ogcd healing meta wasn't possible in ARR, where your healing ogcds were only Whispering Dawn, Bene, and Lust.
woeful dagger
Healers *originally* were not expected, by design, to dps. But, as they got mor...
No healers started being expected to DPS because people realized dps checks were insanely easy to hit if healers just started casting DPS spells. Then instead of balancing the game around healers not dpsing (adding more consistent aoe damage to make healers have to constantly cast healing spells, or some other balance decision), Yoshida decided to first give healer gear +hit in HW then just make healer spells always hit after that and balance dps checks around it.
Which is why the healer role in FF14 has the least # of healers as a % of the population of any MMO.
lost raft
The meta started in HW and Alexander. Ogcd healing meta wasn't possible in ARR,...
thanks
dude
cinder badger
By the way Templar also had the ability to turn enemies into zombies so they were also necromancers. So let's just push both Templar and Necromancer to the side
floral aurora
If the healer doesn't DPS, you're justified in taking their lunch money.
I'm actually hoping Sage gives player that dps mentality Gunbreaker gives
lost raft
manipulator wasnt balanced at all well if the horror stories are true
everyone had to dps
woeful dagger
I'm actually hoping Sage gives player that dps mentality Gunbreaker gives
I am thinking it will because all its DPS cooldowns are personal it appears.
brisk quail
No healers started being expected to DPS because people realized dps checks were...
But both ideas end out the same way..
Healers being EXPECTED to DPS now.
digital forge
No healers started being expected to DPS because people realized dps checks were...
bruh point 1 and point 2 have zero relation
unique verge
No healers started being expected to DPS because people realized dps checks were...
Which is why the healer role in FF14 has the least # of healers as a % of the population of any MMO.
I'm willing to bet you pulled that out of your ass and have no proof of that being true.
lost raft
Citation needed™
floral aurora
I am thinking it will because all its DPS cooldowns are personal it appears.
I honestly can't wait to try it. I'm more excited for that than the new dps to be honest
lost raft
someone had to
maiden lodge
No healers started being expected to DPS because people realized dps checks were...
Yoshida decided to first give healer gear +hit in HW
Someone didn't actually play in HW, I see.
First, +accuracy gear was started in ARR, not HW
Second, it was notoriously absent in HW, which you can see today because direct hit gear (which is what accuracy got changed to) exists for healers in ARR, but not one single piece of it in HW. Go check.
brisk quail
maiden lodge
The lack of accuracy on heavensward healing gear was NOTICED by a lot of healers.
lost raft
oh no
maiden lodge
miss miss miss miss memes
lost raft
could they like
miss their heals?
woeful dagger
no
unique verge
I specifically remember my statics scholar bitching about it. Over and over and over.
digital forge
no just stone
floral aurora
Accuracy works in single player games but not online imo
gaunt star
6.0 healer but misses heals now. 
cinder badger
If the new melee DPS job doesn't make Nathan explosion scream the word "BRUTAL" then the devs will have failed
maiden lodge
I specifically remember my statics scholar bitching about it. Over and over and...
Ironically, scholars had the advantage here because Bio 1 and 2 didn't roll to hit because it had no upfront damage, whereas Aeroes 1-3 did.
unique verge
Ironically, scholars had the advantage here because Bio 1 and 2 didn't roll to h...
Yeah but he was hardcore about his parse, lol
maiden lodge
Yeah but he was hardcore about his parse, lol
Missing with broils sucked.
heady shadow
Okay so I think I know how to deal with the Scythe issue.
It's small looking because it would prob be something like this.
I am also going to suggest even if he isnt using a scythe, it'll be a weapon like this, be it axe or halberd.
what think?
cinder badger
I'll play healer more if people get off my ass about DPS
maiden lodge
And having every materia slot devoted to accuracy sucked. Especially before they put materia slots on gear that wasn't crafted.
lost raft
aw yes
all these warframe weapons
cinder badger
Like i dps but I'm not going to kill myself over it
maiden lodge
Like i dps but I'm not going to kill myself over it
That's fine, most healers do.
gaunt star
But you must sacrifice yourself for major DPS gains.
digital forge
where's the sac for my uptime
brisk quail
Like i dps but I'm not going to kill myself over it
If you aren't healing. You should be dps-ing (in savage+ level content)
unique verge
Okay so I think I know how to deal with the Scythe issue.
It's small looking be...
That's one of the first reasonable suggestions i've seen to go with the trailer. Im not saying i agree that's what it is, but it COULD be that.
maiden lodge
If you aren't healing. You should be dps-ing (in savage+ level content)
In any content.
brisk quail
Honestly yeah
lost raft
in any content really, yeah
brisk quail
But people are dumb
maiden lodge
No job should be sitting idle.
worn bloom
XIV doesn't give much reason for healers to not DPS simply because all the incoming damage is predictable
brisk quail
Example.
lost raft
keep that gcd rolling
worn bloom
There is no such thing as triage healing.
maiden lodge
XIV doesn't give much reason for healers to not DPS simply because all the incom...
It honestly wouldn't matter.
brisk quail
Like are you standing still for like 30 seconds in a fight?
gaunt star
But if you are healing, why aren't you DPS'ing more? 
cinder badger
Okay I get what you're saying but again if I pick up a Healer I'm going to heal otherwise I'll go play Samurai
maiden lodge
Triage isn't the cause. If they made damage unpredictable, healers would just slap on medica 2 and shields and go back to dps exactly like they did in ARR
brisk quail
Okay I get what you're saying but again if I pick up a Healer I'm going to heal ...
Like. Are you losing a couple seconds after every cast?
maiden lodge
Okay I get what you're saying but again if I pick up a Healer I'm going to heal ...
Yeah, but what will do you between heals?
unique verge
Okay I get what you're saying but again if I pick up a Healer I'm going to heal ...
Then do litearlly everyone a favor and never play healer. DF thanks you in advance.
brisk quail
Or do you take 20+ seconds and don't do shit?
heady shadow
That's one of the first reasonable suggestions i've seen to go with the trailer....
ye, it doesnt even have to be a scythe, just within that type of weapon
lost raft
Again, the novice hall literally tells you to dps if there is no need to heal
woeful dagger
Triage isn't the cause. If they made damage unpredictable, healers would just s...
And what would healers do if everyone took 10% of their health every second in damage for the entire fight?
maiden lodge
Like if you have an idea of what to do between heals, other than dps, that's productive, by all means, please, let us know
maiden lodge
And what would healers do if everyone took 10% of their health every second in d...
REGENS.
lost raft
Medica 2 is a godsend
gaunt star
Tbh you'll get bored if you just heal only.
maiden lodge
You pretend those phases don't exist and that healers dont already do smething about it
gaunt star
Very rarely do things go chaotic enough to where I need to just rely on healing in DF.
lost raft
Asylum, Sch's bubble, Earthly star
cinder badger
@unique verge so you're going to tell me how to play then
maiden lodge
Like you're describing a situation that happens in 11S--he literally goes 'massive damage' and a hard ticking dot that lasts a while, adn what do healers do?
AoE regens and pew pew pew
gaunt star
Although arguably heal DPS'ing is boring too.
worn bloom
Instead healers get pretty half assed job mechanics.
cinder badger
I already said i dps I just don't make it my top priority
gaunt star
Just need another fun DPS button. 
tropic frigate
because its all about dpsing and not healing as much as you can
woeful dagger
Like you're describing a situation that happens in 11S--he literally goes 'massi...
Notice the phrase of 'hard ticking'. Which is extremely ambiguous. Clearly if the damage is such that a simply regen can out-heal it, it isn't hard ticking.
lost raft
all about that efficiency game
unique verge
Essence of the Profane in non-Bozja content when
brisk quail
I already said i dps I just don't make it my top priority
So. Are you standing still and not doing actions? Or just hesitating after healing the party/tank?
maiden lodge
because its all about dpsing and not healing as much as you can
This is because healing is binary. Either you've healed enough, or they're dead. Once you've healed enough, what do you do then?
maiden lodge
Notice the phrase of 'hard ticking'. Which is extremely ambiguous. Clearly if th...
There are moments of damage where even more is required.
Healers still dps
digital forge
And what would healers do if everyone took 10% of their health every second in d...
the e11s dot ticks for 30% lol
they shield + regen and go back to DPS
brisk quail
@woeful dagger lookin like the biggest dummy in the room rn
maiden lodge
The math is simple here.
brisk quail
lost raft
several people are typing
quick obsidian
Healer dps existed in ARR. good day sir
unique verge
Yeah. Group is about to take a raidwide. I press Assize. I press Afflatus if that was somehow not enough. Now there is nothing but autoattacks on the tank for the next 5-10 seconds.
I can either DPS or i can be AFK
gaunt star
several people are typing
maiden lodge
If your party member has X hp and they're going to be taking Y damage, you need to heal Y-X+1 hp, total, through the fight.
floral aurora
I mean there's nothing wrong with a Healer analyzing the situation before they dps imo. Long as the Tank doesn't die and make me Tank (as a dps) I'm good
woeful dagger
Yeah. Group is about to take a raidwide. I press Assize. I press Afflatus if ...
Yes that is my point. The damage profile in FF14 was balanced around healers DPSing. Nothing more lol.
digital forge
"what about e12s" yeah just mit, shield, toss a regen up, go back to glare
maiden lodge
So, once you've done that--what do you do?
What do you do, once you've healed them enough? If not dps? Seriously, answer that.
woeful dagger
So, once you've done that--what do you do?
And what if you can never do that?
lost raft
you can
digital forge
then play a different game
forest magnet
there's literally no content in the game where that's the case
quick obsidian
YoshiP said it himself you need healer dps to clear savage early at min ilvl. Its inpossible otherwise
woeful dagger
Yes, you can by design.
maiden lodge
And what if you can *never* do that?
Content like that doesn't exist.
woeful dagger
That is my point lol
forest magnet
Not even ultimate
maiden lodge
Not even in WoW.
digital forge
even ultimates have been solo healed lol
gaunt star
Throw Dia up.
maiden lodge
ACtually no I can answer that.
floral aurora
So, once you've done that--what do you do?
Look for better cards xD
digital forge
UCOB got a 8-tank clear
gaunt star
And just watch it count down. 
digital forge
you're asking about hypotheticals that will never exist
"constant dot tick" that was A11S
maiden lodge
What happens in WoW, when your healers no longer are healing at their peak--and you're overhealing, in raids?
digital forge
it was just regens
cinder badger
The only time DPS ever matter to me as a Healer was back in cataclysm on World of Warcraft where discipline priest literally healed by doing damage to enemies
maiden lodge
The healer goes dps.
digital forge
can confirm on healer benching
gaunt star
The healer is DPS.
worn bloom
Disc Priests still function that way.
unique verge
Yup, healers get benched all the time in WoW
maiden lodge
WoW has 'low damage' on healing because they run the bare minimum number of healers and a healer that overheals is useless, and is replaced or respecs
maiden lodge
So why do healers dps?
gaunt star
DPS all the way.
worn bloom
Also, more dungeon greens need a dye slot.
maiden lodge
Because once they start overhealing, they get benched if they don't.
brisk quail
In GW2? Healer dps required
In GW1? Healer dps required
Swotor? Healer dps required
Wow? Healer dps required
Tera? Healer dps required
Eso? Healer dps required
woeful dagger
WoW has 'low damage' on healing because they run the *bare minimum number of hea...
Yes. That is my point. Early on in FF14 Yoshida had the option to go that route but chose not to. And is why I think the role is in the spot its at.
gaunt star
When I run stuff, I tell my tank that if I have to resort to hard casting a Cure II, something is going terribly wrong with the run.
gaunt star
With how things are now, you can get by easy on oGCD heals and just DPS all the time.
woeful dagger
Saying that healer dps is require in WoW is a meme
maiden lodge
Yes. That is my point. Early on in FF14 Yoshida had the option to go that route ...
If healers can't contribute dps, you'd see one healer comps become standard.
worn bloom
Realistically why wouldn't a healer have offense to defend themselves.
You can't heal things dead.
digital forge
FISTWEAVING MONK IN WOW
worn bloom
Unless they are undead.
digital forge
THERE IS LITERALLY DISC PRIEST IN WOW
woeful dagger
FISTWEAVING MONK IN WOW
Ami don't meme
maiden lodge
Saying that healer dps is require in WoW is a meme <:haha:240841245239410688>
But it is--because once overhealing happens, you bench that healer.
lost raft
if theyre undead, heal them more
digital forge
Ami don't meme
leggo says hi
lost raft
if theyre living dead, bene
gaunt star
Cure II intensifies.
woeful dagger
I swear to god Ami
gaunt star
YoshiP said it himself you need healer dps to clear savage early at min ilvl. It...
not even just min ilvl, fastest oracle kill rn is 139k raid dps with healers contributing 24k of that, and you need 116k to beat enrage
cinder badger
Barrier healers should DPS more though because their whole shtick is to prevent damage from happening with a damaged absorbing Shield giving them time to perform other activities without the stress of healing a wounded Target
maiden lodge
If healers didn't have dps contribute, the meta in savage would be 1 healer.
digital forge
hopefully with Barrier/Regen healer becoming standard they'll go crazier w/heal mechanics
woeful dagger
If healers didn't have dps contribute, the meta in savage would be 1 healer.
Yes and I think that'd be an acceptable balance. Or they just double (random number) the damage everything does to force healing to be more healing-oriented.
maiden lodge
That dps contribution is what lets 'I shouldn't dps' healers actually even be allowed to raid at all, because the alternative is that you get to watch on the bench while the healer who can solo heal AND DPS actually gets to play.
odd yoke
Give us more tiets like Promise
digital forge
????
woeful dagger
Heal mechanics rn are really bland and boring
gaunt star
Barrier healers can dps more doesn't actually make sense
odd yoke
This tier was fun
kindred meteor
side eyes the quad SMN 2 tanks 2 other DPS video or E4S
gaunt star
They actually dps less if they need to gcd shield
worn bloom
I saw that video
kindred meteor
Phoenix Regen ain't no joke
gaunt star
Especially for WHM.
digital forge
Which is why the healer role in FF14 has the least # of healers as a % of the population of any MMO.
Next part:
There should be 1-healer comps
floral aurora
So hoping dpsing as Sage is a lot of fun and DRKs are jelly of our barriers to their TBN
onyx sundial
Yes and I think that'd be an acceptable balance. Or they just double (random num...
most raidwides in the tier actually put you down to 10% after mitigations and shields, so doubling it will just make it impossible to clear
maiden lodge
ALso, if your throughput is balanced that you're constantly having to cast heals in savage--then it's balanced such that you don't in normal content.
And then you're back to dpsing in dungeons, good job.
woeful dagger
They actually dps less if they need to gcd shield
Well theoretically they apply a Barrier during periods of movement so periods of standing still and taking boss AoE, they then don't have to heal and can just keep DPSing
gaunt star
Let me at least have fluid aura turn into a water gun attack.
digital forge
ye, e11s/e12s stuff FUCKING HURTS
gaunt star
digital forge
you need mit
woeful dagger
most raidwides in the tier actually put you down to 10% after mitigations and sh...
It was a random number, not a design idea.
onyx sundial
and if you make it rather than double, double the frequency then you end up with healers having harder time to manage their mp
kindred meteor
no wait sorry it was quintuple SMN 2 Tanks 1 DNC
maiden lodge
Well theoretically they apply a Barrier during periods of movement so periods of...
'healers cast while they move' AHAHAHAHA
quick obsidian
Solo heal in ARR was an overall dps loss because of mp resources and no ogcds like today
digital forge
your design ideas are genuinely garbage lol
onyx sundial
healers this tier are already starving for mp
woeful dagger
and if you make it rather than double, double the frequency then you end up with...
Yes that is an acceptable balance state.
lost raft
... huh
looking at the reveal... a Sage's shield might be an ogcd. Or at least instant
onyx sundial
and more over when people make mistakes
worn bloom
A better question is why Fluid Aura is garbage and that spell keeps making the cut from expansion to expansion.
digital forge
you're continually assuming perfect play
maiden lodge
... huh
looking at the reveal... a Sage's shield might be an ogcd. Or at least i...
ogcd shields would have to be in order for them to be a shielding healer.
woeful dagger
... huh
looking at the reveal... a Sage's shield might be an ogcd. Or at least i...
I think it's just an External like Heart of Stone and not a full-fledged GCD big heal
maiden lodge
Same with scholar, tbf
onyx sundial
u literally have no idea how hard healing is at endgame if you're throwing such statements
gaunt star
"Theoretically if they heal while they're moving they don't have to heal"
gaunt star
A better question is why Fluid Aura is garbage and that spell keeps making the c...
Honestly.
kindred meteor
or you're just talking out their ass
digital forge
me, remembering the amount of coordination in UWU early on
brisk quail
It was a random number, not a design idea.
maiden lodge
So here's the real balance for healers, so you understand
quick obsidian
Yep, i just see some people who dont heal savage or ultimate pulling things out of their...
woeful dagger
I didn't say "while they are moving"
I said during periods of movement lol
You do move and stop and move during a lot of mechanics
maiden lodge
It's balanced so that a BAD healer can tread water in easy content without dpsing
lost raft
@maiden lodge Fair, yeah. Aspected Benefic came to mind with the instant cast
gaunt star
Get rid of Fluid Aura, get rid of Repose.
cinder badger
So if they get rid of nocturnal sect will Collective unconscious reduce damage or provide regen?
digital forge
those are both useful lol
worn bloom
But that would involve in giving Healers back their identity.
digital forge
in
guess where
Eureka/Bozja
kindred meteor
nah actually I want Repose for Aether Currents each expac
maiden lodge
why are they healing rather than dpsing at those points
whm nourishes the blood lily
kindred meteor
Fluid Aura can go
gaunt star
Fair.
woeful dagger
why are they healing rather than dpsing at those points
because it's a barrier and doing it then instead of later is the same, so the SGE/SCH can dps during boss aoe instead of casting GCD heals.
maiden lodge
Fluid aura and repose is not that useful in Bozja, tbf
woeful dagger
it's just moving the DPS GCDs from one place to another, realistically
worn bloom
Fluid Aura is the equivalent of egging someones house.
maiden lodge
because it's a barrier and doing it then instead of later is the same, so the SG...
'Using a gcd to heal now' costs the same as 'Using a gcd to heal later'
1=1
cinder badger
I remember healing on Final Fantasy XI
gaunt star
So shield healers have to put up their shield before damage happens, amazing revelation
worn bloom
Healing in XI frankly is a lot less engaging.
woeful dagger
So shield healers have to put up their shield before damage happens, amazing rev...
It's a response to your assertion before lol
onyx sundial
gaunt star
in
guess where
Eureka/Bozja
What do you use them on in that though?
digital forge
woeful dagger
A Pile of CatsToday at 8:50 PM
They actually dps less if they need to gcd shield
cinder badger
That's because healing in Final Fantasy 11 was literally you standing there waiting for your allies to get hurt before casting heal spell
gaunt star
Implying regen healers need to gcd heal
maiden lodge
A Pile of CatsToday at 8:50 PM
They actually dps less if they need to gcd shield
This is actually true.
IT USES MORE GCDS WHEN YOU USE GCDS
digital forge
instead of yelling about gcds, give healers a small, entertaining rotation
maiden lodge
'Uses a gcd to barrier' costs one gcd.
'Uses no gcds and heals after' costs zero gcds.
worn bloom
You might cast buffs and enfeeble stuff but generally you stood and waited until someone needed healing.
digital forge
or do both lol
cinder badger
Healers on 11 didn't DPS lol
woeful dagger
'Uses a gcd to barrier' costs one gcd.
'Uses no gcds and heals after' costs zero...
to be fair, the shield in the preview was an oGCD so we'll see
maiden lodge
Healers on 11 didn't DPS lol
neither did dps, techically
lost raft
give white mage the gunbreakers ammo combo
worn bloom
Dia, Paralyze, Slow
gaunt star
Hell.
cinder badger
@worn bloom that's the red Mages job
worn bloom
A WHM or BLM can do it if there is no RDM around.
gaunt star
That'll keep me entertained the entire time.