retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[brisk quail]

And?

[half phoenix]

We also have 4 vit users, 4 mnd users, 4 str users, 4 dex users, and 3 int users

[wet mountain]

Maybe the melee dps can be caster and physical like red mage

[brisk quail]

What's the issue with that

[cinder badger]

Where's the balance

[golden atlas]

The argument was that there was need for another dps like dragoon

[brisk quail]

There is balance

I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say

[woeful dagger]

mfw people think it's templar

[brisk quail]

[plain saffron]

atanks aren't vit users btw

all jobs are

[tiny wind]

what do you define as balance

[half phoenix]

They are vit users

Tanks damage is tied to vit

[plain saffron]

they're strength scalinig

they're not tied to vit

if you pot vit in your opener

you're griefing

[brisk quail]

Everyone is a featureless tofu block with 3 buttons.

100 potency attack

100 potency heal

Suicide

[odd yoke]

It was tied to vit for like 1 patch in stormblood

[cinder badger]

Where's our fourth

[odd yoke]

Its just strength now

[tiny wind]

sounds great imma sub

[cinder badger]

Caster

DPS

[golden atlas]

Did someone say tofu???? @plain saffron

[half phoenix]

We’re fine without a new caster right now

[odd yoke]

But give me a new caster

[gaunt star]

New melee dps poggers

[tiny wind]

what we need is a completely new role

[odd yoke]

I want off summoner hell

[woeful dagger]

Tank damage? Yeah they tied it to Vit to try and incentive using Vit materia over straight strength and also so Tanks didn't use the dps accessories.

[next quarry]

a new melee is interesting

[half phoenix]

Then play rdm or blm

[gaunt star]

Sage mains weird champ

[brisk quail]

Imagine there being 3 users of casting gear.

And only one maiming.

'Balance'

[next quarry]

IM SORRY

[odd yoke]

Rdm boring as shit and i play blm now and then

[tiny wind]

valorant kids are gonna meme sage

[woeful dagger]

'Member using level 50 Accessories in 3.0 as a tank for the raw damage

That was so fun

[half phoenix]

I still say just give drg striking and nin aiming

[next quarry]

DRG is "tanky"

[plain saffron]

i mean they have no mitigation in their toolkit

[golden atlas]

Insert floor tank memes here

[gaunt star]

Yes they do

They have second wind

[next quarry]

their gear has more def

but

[plain saffron]

so the armor is the balance

[next quarry]

I think maiming is alright as it is

i think monk and sam should be maiming if they were to condense it

[half phoenix]

Drg literally don’t need the extra defense

[digital forge]

Remember 4.0 where tanks were i270 Slaying accs during Susano EX

[woeful dagger]

Remove all gear restrictions like ESO and allow us to wear/glam whatever

🙂

[half phoenix]

No

[plain saffron]

drg doesn't have things like third eye/riddle of earth/shade shift in its kit

[woeful dagger]

Sure do! And all the healers complaining lol

[half phoenix]

They tried that with accessories prior to SB

[woeful dagger]

That's what prompted them to try tying tank damage to Vit

[plain saffron]

in the end it got reverted

[flat merlin]

Tank attack scaled to Vit was fun

[gaunt star]

Shade shift pepega

[cinder badger]

Barrier healer is more fun because Shields

Who wants to be a boring normal healer when you can just throw shields on people

[half phoenix]

DRG shouldn’t tanking attacks though, and third eye is normally only procced off of stacks or raid wides

[digital forge]

Third Eye is a DPS increase

[woeful dagger]

That was like peak Xenos too. He was always all over the subreddit.

[half phoenix]

And is only procced off stacks and raid-wides

[gaunt star]

Third eye is a dps

[plain saffron]

the point here is that there's no upside to making them striking gear shared

[digital forge]

Anyways why are people mad about a maiming melee DPS this time

[cinder badger]

I thought third eye allows you to use a DPS ability or a healing ability

[half phoenix]

Sam aren’t eating tank busters for third eye procs >_>

[plain saffron]

yes thats what it does

[half phoenix]

No, it doesn’t

[plain saffron]

it procs eyes

open

[digital forge]

???

[brisk quail]

Yes it does.

[digital forge]

That's literally what it does

[plain saffron]

which you can choose to use for seigan or merciful eyes

but no ones uses merciful because it sucks

[unique verge]

Imagine self healing when you could gain DPS

[half phoenix]

Third eye itself gives you 3 seconds to take a hit to get open eye or whatever it’s called to use those skills

[cinder badger]

@unique verge IKR

[digital forge]

Yes?

That'd literally what we said

[plain saffron]

yes and thats what we said

[digital forge]

Unless you're dealing semantics in which case: why does it matter

[cinder badger]

Unless the self-healing is part of your DPS. Like Soul Eater

[half phoenix]

If you don’t get hit, or miss the timing, no proc, so no dps or healing

[plain saffron]

the pedantry here is third eye allows usage of those abilities

[woeful dagger]

Storm's Path

[digital forge]

I dunno what the point of discussion is

So anyways

Maiming DPS good

[half phoenix]

Nah

[digital forge]

Guess the next melee in 9.0 will use scouting

[half phoenix]

Scrap it, striking

[plain saffron]

why

[cinder badger]

I thought it was confirmed that they were using maiming

[half phoenix]

No they didn’t

[digital forge]

Why striking

[half phoenix]

They said literally nothing besides “it’s a melee dps”

Because we don’t need maiming

[golden atlas]

It would make sense because it was stated that the new melee was going to be akin to that of dragoon

[final isle]

there's an interview where yoshida says it shares gear with DRG or whatever

[plain saffron]

maiming is for the drg aesthetic

[digital forge]

Why don't we need maiming

[brisk quail]

Not exactly.

YoshiP said.

it's a melee dps since maiming has only one user but he never said it outright until the interview iirc

[plain saffron]

it sharing gear could mean accessories

[sacred owl]

They talked about dragoon being in a weird spot with their gear - so it‘s a half confirmation for maiming

[digital forge]

Ye it's either that or scouting

[brisk quail]

But that could be real time translation errors

By red shirt guy

[digital forge]

lmao true but it's Red Shirt Guy

If anyone knows Yoshi-P it's him

[half phoenix]

Nothing in the recent interviews saying maiming

[digital forge]

Check translation channel

[half phoenix]

Just did

The last mention of maiming was the lakshmi accessories

[sacred owl]

■6.0の新たな近接DPSジョブについて
Regarding the new Melee DPS

・竜騎士だけ特殊な立ち位置なので枠だけ言ってしまうとそこに足すことなったので、6.0新ジョブは近接DPSに決定した
"Since DRG is currently at a special position, if we're only talking about slots it was natural we add it there. Which is why we decided on having melee DPS as our second new job."

・DPSというロールをやりたがる方が基本的には多いので、拡張ごとに攻撃をするジョブが追加されないというのはないかなと考えている
There are many players who want to play the DPS role so they tend to add new job that specialises on attacking. It seems that there hasn't been an expansion where attack specific jobs isn't added for each expansion.

・近接DPSが厳しいということについて、ギミックを複雑にして高難易度を作ると移動や攻撃距離に制限があるジョブはどのMMOでも厳しくなり、これをどう回避していくのかについては常に悩んでいる
Regarding on how playing melee DPS is hard/rigid, Yoshida commented that it's never easy to play a job that has restrictions in movement or attack distance when facing complicated mechanics in high difficulty content no matter which MMO you play, so they are always worried on approaching the aspect of how to dodge those kind of mechanics.

[woeful dagger]

Red shirt guy doesn't make real-time translation errors because he has a paper in front of him with the general notes.

[brisk quail]

You're really terrible at reading@half phoenix

[golden atlas]

I think that's being generous

[half phoenix]

Note there’s no “maiming” in that post >_>

[brisk quail]

Thats why you read

[unique verge]

Regardless

[brisk quail]

Don't search

[unique verge]

Its gonna be a maiming DPS

[brisk quail]

[digital forge]

How badly are we memeing about Red Shirt Guy or do you guys know who he is

[woeful dagger]

Koji Fox

[unique verge]

That means its gonna be a heavy-armor type melee DPS

so it should tell you alot about what it could be, and what it definitely cant be

[digital forge]

Okay yeah because I've seen people go "who's that red shirt dude"

[half phoenix]

Or they scrap maiming and lower the loot pools

[unreal basin]

Red Shirt Guy from WOW who corrected the lore team on lore points?

[woeful dagger]

But if I said Koji I was doubting if they knew who Koji was lol

So I just used their terminology

[unique verge]

They're not scrapping maiming lmao

[half phoenix]

I mean they’re already getting rid of belts

[unique verge]

please dont be ridiculous

[woeful dagger]

They're getting rid of belts only because it isn't glammable and we need more Weapon/Ring slots

So it's two birds situation

[sacred owl]

There is a difference between scrapping one part of armor and get rid of literally a whole category of gear

[gaunt star]

Belts are kinda useless tbf

[woeful dagger]

Those 5 "banked" armoury slots are 100% going to Job Soul I am sure

After EW we'll only have 5 slots left

[cinder badger]

In regards to the new melee DPS why would they bring up Dragoon specifically if they weren't going to use maiming?

[woeful dagger]

No sorry, 3 slots.

[gaunt star]

You can't get rid of maiming because there are like 2 million pieces of maiming glam

Just me who thinks that Thavnair is very Mayan / traditional south american with an acid trip?

[woeful dagger]

And if, for instance, Beast Tamer is a limited Job (or they add any new Limited Job) then it'll go down to 2. So we'll need those 5 extra crystal slots.

[digital forge]

Nah, most likely more similar than we think

[gaunt star]

similar to what?

[woeful dagger]

Just going off the gear style, it looks Middle Eastern to me

[brisk quail]

Felt more Indian/African

[digital forge]

Dyes just washed away

[gaunt star]

hm

[digital forge]

But what we know is that it's colorful as fuck

[gaunt star]

south indian with the color festivals yea

[tardy elm]

More thavararian bustiers?

[half phoenix]

Yea, Thavnair is suppose to Indian/Indonesian

[cinder badger]

Maybe Maiming needs its own stat seperate from STR or DEX

[sacred owl]

Still have the feeling, that we‘re getting Scythe class like Ran‘jit, being connected to Thavnair ... might be wrong, but a Melee can dream ^^

[gaunt star]

WAIt

ISLAND SANCUARY?

waht

explain

[odd yoke]

Farming

[woeful dagger]

Another melee dps to take away even more MNK and NIN players

[cinder badger]

@gaunt star Harvest Moon

[gaunt star]

...

[woeful dagger]

MNK gonna have 3 whole mains after EW

[royal spruce]

What do you think the lore reason is that we're taking off our belts and throwing them away

[odd yoke]

We're Stardew Fantasy

[serene crest]

Farms, animal raising, free range minions. It's a chill place apparently.

[tardy elm]

Final FarmVille 14

[woeful dagger]

We technically never had any on

Since you can't see them

[rain onyx]

Calamity salvagers stole them to summon the primal known as Lulu

[royal spruce]

It's not our fault all belts technically are the emperor's new belt did you not know that

[gaunt star]

I'd literally pay rent to SE if they made jazzier jazz and odd signatures to their metal

[cinder badger]

What if Maiming had the agility stat?

[gaunt star]

I pay rent to square Enix

[royal spruce]

It's going to look weird with no belts

[gaunt star]

It's called Mt sub

[royal spruce]

The gear screen

[severe finch]

maiming can keep strength

[serene crest]

They could just move everything on left side down one slot.

[severe finch]

I don't wanna buy more pots than is needed

[pure dagger]

is the new melee dps gonna share it's gear with DRG/Maiming or did i just make that up?

[royal spruce]

I mean are these ring slots really going to help

[sacred owl]

Most likely sharing gear with dragoon

[royal spruce]

Once you have everything at max level ring slots aren't really an issue

[tardy elm]

I just spent 395 tomes on a Cryptlurker belt 🤦‍♀️

[cinder badger]

In the future Rings won't exist

[sacred owl]

I mean, you wouldn’t need the belt in 6.0 anyway ^^

[half crescent]

they will

[woeful dagger]

yeah im pretty sure Rings are getting yeeted

[half crescent]

they have ingame models so i doubt they are gonna remove them

[woeful dagger]

theyll have a glam section for them

but not on your char sheet

[kindred rampart]

or

[teal geyser]

Mass ERP after data center visiting

[tardy elm]

That looks like that Bill Burr guy in The Mandalorian

[royal spruce]

Please don't remind me I can only just imagine what is going to be like at the quicksand on balmung

[half crescent]

does anyone know why the belt 3d models got yeet'd in the first place? :S

[woeful dagger]

Stop acting like you won't join in

[royal spruce]

Can't wait for all the English folks to move to the Japanese Data Center

That's going to be a fun day

[woeful dagger]

they already did

[teal geyser]

Never said I wouldn't

[kindred rampart]

ERP Calamity

[royal spruce]

True but it will be easier

[woeful dagger]

that's my girl

[tiny wind]

they're gonna hate it lmao

[teal geyser]

Crotchrot wipes out the entire population

[royal spruce]

Also by the sounds of it the Market board won't be locked in Cross Datacenter will it

[teal geyser]

Probably the same restrictions as cross world

[royal spruce]

Well they said there was going to be heavy restrictions

[kindred rampart]

https://i.redd.it/66wtosmhhur41.png

[odd yoke]

Queing is gonna be weord

Cause you're on a different data centre and ping

[royal spruce]

I think one of those things that will be locked is Duty Finder Maybe

But really rest in peace Market board technically the universal Market board is happening

[woeful dagger]

nothing will change

[tiny wind]

yeah what about the ping

[odd yoke]

I think they mentioned you might need to log out while you travel

It could just be similar to a transfer but Friends, Linkshells etc dont work

[royal spruce]

Man that's going to take a tough on the servers isn't it

[woeful dagger]

they said they were getting better ones i thought

[odd yoke]

Well we can already transfer across with money

So

Its just moving character data across. Then applying limitations while you're visiting

[unique verge]

I kind of think its a waste of time, tbh

like, poor use of dev resources

because im predicting no MB access, and no DF/PF

[odd yoke]

They said party up with friends and stuff so we'll just have to wait and see

[woven escarp]

it's part of the framework of reunifying the data centers at some point

their original network goal was to have one giant world that players could switch between shards depending on traffic

[heady shadow]

now the need for alts is mute

[cinder badger]

https://youtu.be/IzuQYLaW24o

[heady shadow]

but stalkers will use this .

[royal spruce]

I can't believe a trailer for sage is going to make me learn healer

Cuz that is hands-down the coolest looking weapon in the game

[turbid bough]

I'm super hyped for more potential ffix references in Pandemonium.

[odd yoke]

And you know they wont get crafted primal weapons

[royal spruce]

Are we about to talk about lore spoilers in this channel

Allowed

[open verge]

Yes

[cinder badger]

This was super well done btw. I keep replaying this over and over

[open verge]

Would be hard to talk 6.0 without spoilers

[royal spruce]

ture

[open verge]

The sage weapon look cool but I have a feeling the extra weapons they get will be underwhelming

[cinder badger]

Also cat in the box

[open verge]

I hope they don’t limit the way nouliths look to much

[digital forge]

MINI FUNNELS

And Alphi pulling the One Winged Angel look

[cinder badger]

Endwalker Theme vs ShB

[royal spruce]

Considering the beginning of the trailer I wonder if it's going to go into more of about us being the 14th

[cedar wadi]

Implying it’s not FF2 Pandemonium in that artwork

[heady shadow]

we been getting a lot of gundam like stuff recently

[turbid bough]

I mean, the heavy organic feel is a lot like Pandemonium from FFIX

[heady shadow]

now we going into space

[digital forge]

G-WARRIOR

[worn bloom]

FFII Pandemonium was disappointing, FFIX's version of it was much better.

[heady shadow]

Moon Colony.

hopefully Fandaniel doesnt drop the Colony

[royal spruce]

I hope the one question I have gets answered though where was the 14th in the final days

[cedar wadi]

It looks like a corrupted crystal palace

[turbid bough]

Yeah, FFII is corrupt crystal while FFIX has a weird organic feel to it.

[heady shadow]

https://tenor.com/view/colony-gundam-crash-boom-gif-13987960

[worn bloom]

I know Pandemonium wasn't in FFV but the fleshy castle Exdeath had is pretty reminiscent of that.

[cedar wadi]

Exdeath was more gore on the walls

[turbid bough]

And I'm getting some crazy Kuja vibes from Fandaniel. Could absolutely be reaching though, we'll see.

[royal spruce]

I always assumed the 14th went to find a third solution to the problem

[worn bloom]

Don't say that, it makes me think Fandaniel will be wearing a metal thong.

[cedar wadi]

I just can’t wait for may to reveal mystic knight

[worn bloom]

Don't hype yourself up so high, you'll setup for disappointment.

[royal spruce]

I like how nobody guessed Sag

sage

[turbid bough]

Because of that, I thought Kuja was a girl first time I played ix...

[unique verge]

At least mystic knight, which i dont agree with, is a viable prediction

[worn bloom]

I thought Chemist would be it. It'd have been a different flavor of healer we haven't gotten.

Mystic Knight or Rune Fencer seem likely to me.

[woeful dagger]

We're not getting a job that is too similar to DoH/L imo

[unique verge]

All these nerds reposting Ranjit pictures when we know its on Maiming lol

[woeful dagger]

Reaper is also kinda sketchy because Botanist uses Scythes

[royal spruce]

So what do you guys think melee DPS and necromancer mean for the last job

[unique verge]

nothing because it isnt necromancer or necromancer related

[worn bloom]

I don't think Necromancer would ever make it in. Nearly everyone reviles that stuff.

[turbid bough]

I still have my gil out there for corsair/pirate

[cedar wadi]

Alchemist is the only thing preventing FFXIV from having a non magic healer

[unique verge]

Corsair is an impossiblity

[woeful dagger]

Necromancer wont make it in because why would you want another pet-esque Job when you look at SMN

[unique verge]

Because it would be on Striking

[worn bloom]

I don't think they are that similar at all.

[unique verge]

and the new job is going to be on Maiming

[gaunt star]

The new job is maiming

[turbid bough]

Oh well

[worn bloom]

What would stop a Chemist from having a funky weapon like Sage?

[turbid bough]

Never mind then

[cedar wadi]

Necromancer has always been a magic job in the series. I don’t see why they would change it

[royal spruce]

But I really am not looking forward to this stat squish I understand why it's happening but it's still going to suck

[gaunt star]

they can also use axes to cut down trees??? how does that matter

[woeful dagger]

Anything can be Maiming it isn't really like there is a restriction what "kind" of Job can be on maiming

[worn bloom]

Necromancer has existed in one FF game to my recollection.

[unique verge]

Yes there is lmao

[gaunt star]

Chemist is not happening at this point

Thank god

[worn bloom]

Meh

Like we need more magical girl esque healer animations.

[unique verge]

Maiming is themed as heavy armor. Its stat'd as heavy armor. You cant just put something on that which doesnt fit that style.

[gaunt star]

Sage at least is something new

[worn bloom]

I agree

[woeful dagger]

well that 1 game was 11 which is game draws inspiration from

[worn bloom]

Uh, where in 11 had Necromancer.

[cinder badger]

Melee DPS will be Executioner

[cedar wadi]

In lore maybe

[woeful dagger]

Necro became Puppetmaster

[gaunt star]

Watch it be some kind of “Ravager” or something using the scythe to use elemental melee abilities

[velvet fox]

Necromancer was from the GBA V remake as a playable class.

[woeful dagger]

But Necro was what it was suppose to be

[worn bloom]

Yeah

[cedar wadi]

Necromancer is from V yeah

[worn bloom]

In the GBA port

[woeful dagger]

But 11 has Necromancer NPCs

and I guess 14 does too really

[unique verge]

So basically Lyon's fighting style? That actually sounds viable.

[cedar wadi]

Was “supposed to be” is very different from being

[royal spruce]

I can't wait to put my free destination on the moon

[worn bloom]

They didn't go with it because it'd be lore breaking. Undead in FFXI typically spawned at night or appeared in dungeons.

[cinder badger]

Executioner

[woeful dagger]

Well the idea was the Necro would tame them at night and could follow them during the day

[worn bloom]

Interesting

[woeful dagger]

in-lore

[worn bloom]

Honestly Sage was a pleasant surprise at least aesthetically.

[cedar wadi]

How do you tame the undead?

[woeful dagger]

Control their mind

[cedar wadi]

That sounds like beastmaster

[worn bloom]

In a lot of fantasy RPGs. Spellcasters had abilities to subjugate or create undead.

[velvet fox]

Magically force a contract, enslave them, etc.

[royal spruce]

Oh wow I didn't know levequests could give some nice amount of Gil

[unique verge]

lolwut

I think we have very different ideas of a "nice amount of gil"

haha

[velvet fox]

"Control Undead" is a pretty classic Cleric/Necro skillset in games.

[worn bloom]

As cool as a Necro would have been in XI. It would have been too similar to BST.

PUP at least had the gimmick of attachments altering it's combat ability.

[rain onyx]

@unique verge The Coffee Biscuits leve is a very good idle method of making money

It’s how I got my honest gillionaire title

[royal spruce]

Yeah that's what I'm doing now

[unique verge]

oh lawd

that title

[royal spruce]

And I have 99 saved

[gaunt star]

How much gil does it give

[royal spruce]

I bought a stack of cookies that were 2000 a piece so I should make a nice profit

[gaunt star]

Momma needs to upgrade to a medium

[royal spruce]

6000

[rain onyx]

I think 2000 breaks even or is a slight loss in terms of pure Gil reward

[royal spruce]

Plus coffee biscuit is a triple

[gaunt star]

Ah kk

[heady shadow]

Btw. Marluxia used a scythe and he didnt use undead

[rain onyx]

I only bought them when they were around 1500 or so

[drowsy ivy]

why would someone manually pump out cookies
and then sell them for a loss on MB

[worn bloom]

So how much per leve total without factoring in the cookie costs?

[heady shadow]

just Doom

[woeful dagger]

Who else is gonna collect every Alliance raid belt so you can sell them on the MB for millions to crazy RPrs in EW

[rain onyx]

18k Gil or so per leve

[cinder badger]

Blackguard

[unique verge]

people sell things at a loss all the time due to ignorance or stupidity

[rain onyx]

Plus the common reward of crystals

[cedar wadi]

His nobodies are reapers tho

[royal spruce]

I mean I'm paying 2000 / cookie and I'm getting back 6,000 for 1 so that's a 4K profit @wynne

[drowsy ivy]

people are too caught up on scythe=undead
Personally Im leaning towards it using blood/death magic but not undead

[cinder badger]

Blackgaurd

[worn bloom]

Thats about 1,782,000 million.

[heady shadow]

well yeh

[rain onyx]

You turn in 3 cookies at a time

[heady shadow]

plus Farmers in fieldsuse scythes

[rain onyx]

Not one at a time

[gaunt star]

Exorcist

[cedar wadi]

But we already have dark knight

[worn bloom]

I counted per leve.

[royal spruce]

Oh nevermind

[heady shadow]

ye thats the idea i had

[tardy elm]

All my levquests are bugged. I can only get 3000 Exp for any Le quest

[heady shadow]

a,ong others

[worn bloom]

I should do that leve then.

[drowsy ivy]

voidsent hunting exorcist would be baller af

[worn bloom]

So I can get my crafted greens.

[rain onyx]

@tardy elm what level is the leve compared to you?

[turbid bough]

The key thing with cookies is that you can just gather the ingredients for free

[sacred owl]

Tonight, the WoL joins the Hunt!

[worn bloom]

Maxed out gathering for ShB.

[cedar wadi]

I still think it’s gonna be mystic knight. It’s middle eastern-inspired and is a melee dps

[cinder badger]

Blackgaurd

[turbid bough]

iirc it's just il mheg and tomura, not that much to teleport around to

[worn bloom]

I never finished leveling CUL though it's still at 53.

[gaunt star]

My crafter jobs are at varying levels of unfinished

[woeful dagger]

damn I miss Eureka. Such free money

[gaunt star]

Those things still sell

[tardy elm]

@rain onyx All of them at all levels. 1-80. I spammed the Le quests for exp, then it stopped giving me Exp after about 4 turn ins each

[tiny wind]

i got a stash of em still might sell

[rain onyx]

They shouldn’t just stop giving experience after x amount of times.

[royal spruce]

Yeah I made a bit of profit back

[rain onyx]

But you do get drastically lower experience if you vastly outlevel them

[worn bloom]

I've been selling D. Mythril Nuggets, they were selling for a decent price on the MB for awhile.

[rain onyx]

Like using ARR leves past 60

[royal spruce]

I gained about five thousand

I guess I'll go around and see if I can find cheaper cookies

[worn bloom]

And the daily map to sell.

[tardy elm]

@rain onyx well they did. So they’re bugged

[royal spruce]

I still have 90 leave left

[woeful dagger]

Allagan Leather still sells well I've found too

So I just farm Coils sometimes

[worn bloom]

For awhile i430 crafter accessories sold for quite a bit.

[woeful dagger]

Yeah for me Allagan Leather is selling 20-30k per

[worn bloom]

I just can't be assed to meld my crafter stuff.

That gets really expensive if you want to pentameld it.

It's the same sound I hear when I do Delubrum.

The sound of my mettle dropping

The Doom mechanic ugh.

[odd yoke]

Just dont get hit

Except when you have to

[gaunt star]

My first time I died at least 20 times the second only 5

[worn bloom]

It's a shame because I like most of the bosses unique mechanics.

[gaunt star]

It gets easier once you read a guide and figure out how the fights work

[worn bloom]

The temperature one was fun.

I have the fights largely figured out it's just the execution I have to master 😛

[woeful dagger]

Lyon fight is dumb though

[odd yoke]

Which

[woeful dagger]

Both

[turbid bough]

I think the only attacks I don't like in DR are the first bosses doom swipes (where he charges up the 4 swords and swings, I have a hard time dodging that)
And the phantoms moving ring attack.

I found Castrum a LOT harder for some reason.

[odd yoke]

The duel is ass

[woeful dagger]

It's because the dps checks are incredibly tight for content where most the time you're with randos

[odd yoke]

Castrum is snooze

[rain onyx]

Stand RIGHT in the hit box of the boss to make it easier to dodge

[woeful dagger]

And not just Lyon's either, first boss of Castrum is also a dps check that randos usually fail.

[worn bloom]

I did Castrum a lot more and died significantly less on it.

[gaunt star]

Castrum is easy but casuals don’t know how to dodge

[odd yoke]

You can duo castrum lyon with the right actions

[radiant pollen]

stand in the middle of the boss and move immediately to the area he hits since he doesn't hit it twice

just finished my 31st DB run and got nothing but coins

F

[worn bloom]

Tbh

[woeful dagger]

Speaking of, are Silver Coins only used to turn 100 of them into 1 Gold coin?

[tiny wind]

31st jesus lmao

[gaunt star]

Or alternative set yourself to follow someone who looks like they know where to go

[tiny wind]

im at 12 and so sick of it

[worn bloom]

I plan to stick to the weekly DB quest

[odd yoke]

Yes

[woeful dagger]

I got Queen's Guard barding my first run lol

[radiant pollen]

at least i finished 2 relics but got absolutely nothing from drops

[worn bloom]

1 Gold for 100 Silver is an ass exchange rate.

[woeful dagger]

But also reality

[worn bloom]

We play a game not reality ;x

[woeful dagger]

Prove it

[tiny wind]

never doing DR again once i finish this relic

[radiant pollen]

prove what

[gaunt star]

The real messed up rate was the one for the original bozjan augmented gear

[maiden lodge]

I like DR now that Im not shit at it

[worn bloom]

The only reason I want to do it because I like some of the new green sets and I desire it.

[woeful dagger]

do you do DR more than once for the Relic? i've just been farming CT/Void Ark

[odd yoke]

Its a option for thr last step

[woeful dagger]

i might do DR in 5.55 just for the Judge gear

[radiant pollen]

ye you gotta do it 15 times for relic

[worn bloom]

I can't bring myself to do that relic step yet.

[odd yoke]

15 drs or 15 sets of PotD floors (rng)

[radiant pollen]

or potd but idk the drop rates

[woeful dagger]

oh yah. potd seems faster tohugh

[maiden lodge]

It's -way- easier to do DR than that much potd

[worn bloom]

Doing 15 Crystal Tower raids is one of my worst nightmares.

[maiden lodge]

50 floors of potd.

[woeful dagger]

ST is really fast

[woeful dagger]

But I'm a tank so queues are fast

[worn bloom]

The queue on DB seems pretty fast no matter my role.

[maiden lodge]

for alliance raids?!

[woeful dagger]

For ST specifically yeah

I wait about 5m? or so

[odd yoke]

Because DR has no role requirements

[radiant pollen]

had a run disband earlier since we had 0 tanks

[worn bloom]

You can't bribe me to run the CT raids.

[odd yoke]

Just platebear + incense

You got a tank

[woeful dagger]

yah a platebearer MNK is a good tank

especially a deep essence MNK

[ashen coral]

Because it's so hard to slap on a tank essence and Provoke... dammit people

Lol

[worn bloom]

Anywhere where it's listed what the Pure Essences do?

The hidden effects rather.

[odd yoke]

Pure Essence interactions:

Duelist + Honored Sacrifice = Buffed H. Sac (double duration, No Dot damage
Indomitable + Sacrifice = No doom sac
Fiendhunter + Cure II = Slow on target+ mp regen
Elder + Cure IV = AoE bravery
Divinity + Arise = Chance to raise

Indomitable & Divinity interactions are not guaranteed, Indom still has a small chance for doom, Divinity has a painfully disappointing chance for Arise.

[woeful dagger]

also breathtaker + medic kit reduces the chance from 50% to 10%

for the medic kit to not be refreshed

[livid oracle]

||What of Gaia teleports to us and then ferry’s us to the moon||

[odd yoke]

Thats not a pure essense and its written

On the kits

Its not a hidden interaction

[unique verge]

That makes no sense at all

[drowsy ivy]

You guys wanna meet my dad?

[livid oracle]

||Gaia and Ryne, something something, darkness darkness light friendship, we have become Hydaelyb and Zodiark, here’s a space ship||

[worn bloom]

I mean

There is still that problem of them being on a different world that only you can access.

[gaunt star]

Cid will probably just magically build another airship for us to go to the moon with

[unique verge]

The "space ship" is going to almost certainly end up being either a Ragnarok-class Allagan ship we just dig up, or based off of one by Cid

[livid oracle]

||Gaia is an ascian and is working on her ability to teleport to our world to say ‘sup||

[worn bloom]

Just can't wave friendship sparkles on something and expect it to work all the time ;x.

[autumn heron]

https://twitter.com/PatStaresAt/status/1358527368592261120?s=20

Pat Stares At The Truth (@PatStaresAt)

Honestly I think the biggest twist possible we could see is if the split isn't permanent and is in fact an active process, and by dealing with H&Z and the Final Days it naturally resettles and makes the Ascians look SUPER DUMB https://t.co/rvo897KfaQ

Twitter · Feb 7, 2021, 9:25 PM

Pat may be right

[livid oracle]

Emet is still bae of the year

[worn bloom]

^

[woeful dagger]

It's Fordola every year til she dies.

[livid oracle]

God I hope Fordola comes with us to the moon and joins the trust system.

Fuck that would be awesome

[worn bloom]

There are a lot of fun NPC's they could use for the trust system.

[livid oracle]

And Tataru is the ship captain plz plz plz

[woeful dagger]

Never seen a character get so much love from the community and not even be hinted at again after their role in the MSQ is complete.

[autumn heron]

I am actually wondering who the narrator will be in 6.0

[unique verge]

That's not entirely unreasonable, but i think he's wrong because the nature of the Final Days strongly suggest a malevolent force provoking it - but what that force was, is another question entirely. The Sound is an option, as a "planet parasite" along the lines of Lavos/Jenova - but i think an equally viable option is that the Ascians had a traitor among them all along. That Fandaniel was, in fact, involved with the creation of the original Final Days.

[woeful dagger]

The teaser is Emet

[autumn heron]

Im still 90% sure it'll be Gaius

[worn bloom]

You can be certain in 5.5 Part 2 that Tataru will make us new clothes.

[woeful dagger]

I hope it's a real space suit

Authentic and all

[worn bloom]

https://preview.redd.it/826nk6eigsf61.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=0702d7b20addc1e161ed2269908c8ff4f2e96ec9

[livid oracle]

Tataru just bought the space ship off of Rowena as a favor to us

[unique verge]

I'm not anticipating Gaius surviving 5.5

[woeful dagger]

"well we're going to the Moon you'll need these!"

pulls out 1:1 replica NASA suits

[livid oracle]

Damnit Zenos lol

[worn bloom]

Feo Ul sends Tataru dreams of how to make them.

[rain onyx]

Aeiou.

[livid oracle]

Pretty sure Feo is upset at me because she always scolds me for not coming to her when she saves my ass

[kindred rampart]

unless the stand activates
https://zaibatsupedia.fandom.com/wiki/Crazy_Talk

[cinder badger]

So Azem once stopped a volcano from erupting by using its fire energies to summon an early version of Ifrit and destroy it, all because they wanted some grapes that grew there...

[autumn heron]

OH NO

[worn bloom]

I feel Azem is the sort of person to do something because of the lulz.

[cinder badger]

Well we are Azem so we kinda do

[worn bloom]

I mean look at our thicc neck muscles.

[gusty quest]

Azem is the epitome of "I do what I want, when I want"

[placid sail]

Pat invoked Crazy Talk several times during the announcement showcase

[cinder badger]

Lahabreha came up with the concept of "Ifrita"

[maiden lodge]

Consider that in the sentance 'I'm going to go fight that volcano into submission, cause the grapes are decent' the grapes part isn't even the crazy.

[placid sail]

Pat said "3000% buff to Dark Knight", then they announced the stat squish

[worn bloom]

Not that it's related to this topic

https://i.redd.it/4puwnc0k3pf61.png

[forest magnet]

apparently BLM can use lucid dreaming

and benefit from it

[worn bloom]

They do?

[forest magnet]

apparently

[worn bloom]

Last time I tried it did jack

[maiden lodge]

that second bit is dubious

[forest magnet]

https://i.redd.it/j8t0uftk1xw51.png

[worn bloom]

I just hope that we can remove Zenos from our lives once Endwalkers is done.

[gusty quest]

Imma be sad when that happens

[digital forge]

zenos 6.1

[forest magnet]

everything in that image is true btw

[unique verge]

There's no fucking way they let Zenos survive again

[forest magnet]

why not

ur not the writer

of course they can have him live

like how Sephiroth has never died

[gusty quest]

Zenos is a very resilient little boy

[forest magnet]

for real

like he comes back in Advent Children

then he comes back around to fuck with people in the Remake

and he came back from the dead in the original

like

[digital forge]

oh god i genuinely know about all this

all of that is 100% true

[thick coral]

There's no implication of malevolence behind the thing that set off the disruptions that became the Final Days. It's ascribed to as starting as a sound from within the earth, and that's it. The keening reaches a crescendo and magic becomes disrupted, which triggers the calamity.

[untold gull]

i have a problem with this tbh. even emet had to scrounge up a body together since there's no clear way to just teleport between shards and what the exarch did is, from what it looks like, something similar to azem's power to bring friendlies to him

[forest magnet]

How can BLM benefit from lucid. You regain MP in like 2 seconds under B3 and a lucid tick is like what, 300 MP?

Unless lucid can regain the mp lost from casting Thunder

[untold gull]

but that's not to say it's clearly impossible. i just hope they give us a clearer way of doing it without having to get rid of your physical body

[forest magnet]

Which doesn't matter since you wouldn't have enough MP to cast another Fire 4

...

I think.

[thick coral]

Saying something did this on purpose, malevolently, is like saying the Tornado that plowed through your town and hit just your house was put there by something on purpose. Shit sometimes just happens.

[forest magnet]

And you can't regain MP while in fire

[digital forge]

you can use it for a niche optimization

[unique verge]

Ah yes, creation magic going unchecked and triggering what resulted in the Final Days, in a society with extraordinarily well organized regulation of said magic, is totally believable without some outside meddling.

They literally have a Creation Magic DMV lmao

[forest magnet]

nvm i didn't see triple cast

[digital forge]

sharpcast

[woeful dagger]

I'm glad I never got super into Classic WoW cause the raiding there is soooo degenerate

[unique verge]

Classic WoW raiding is super degenerate. I can confirm as someone who played Classic WoW fairly hard through phase 3

[woeful dagger]

FF14 has some degenerate stuff but nothing that bad at least

[unique verge]

Well, that's a different type of degenerate, lol

[worn bloom]

Tataru for Trust System

[digital forge]

FF14 had monk openers

[woeful dagger]

Tataru becomes a conduit for Zodiark and is actually the end-boss of 6.0

[digital forge]

it was degen

[tropic frigate]

degens

[cinder badger]

Azem was against both Hydaelyn and Zodiarks summoning right?

[unique verge]

Yes

[cinder badger]

So they both must die. For grapes.

[thin crypt]

thancred when he sees lahabread again

[woeful dagger]

Azem is against everything

[cinder badger]

@woeful dagger not grapes

[worn bloom]

Anything that would destroy the grapes has to go.

[somber storm]

Tfw half the scions were involved in raids

Actually, all of them

[forest magnet]

all the current scions

[somber storm]

Yup

[forest magnet]

main scions

[unique verge]

The only "non scion" raid was Omega

[urban turret]

Krile has been designated for a bit Raid Scion

[forest magnet]

papalymo and yda/lyse weren't part of one

[somber storm]

Minfillia as well

Same with Tataru

[worn bloom]

What Tataru does is beyond comprehension

[unique verge]

Well, Papalymo did the liberty of dying tangentially connected to a raid boss

[worn bloom]

She can ruin you financially.

[unique verge]

Lyse quit so thats fine

and Minfillia was just busy setting up the Eden raid

[balmy mesa]

Tataru was involved with the SB extreme trials wasn't she

[unique verge]

Yes she was

[barren karma]

I wonder if the little sword gun things will have different looks or be upgradable

[unique verge]

?

They're literally your weapon slot

[barren karma]

for sage

[forest magnet]

they're the weapons

so they're glamourable

[barren karma]

OHHHH

sweeeet

[cinder badger]

The final battle will be won by throwing grapes at the boss.

[shell merlin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WaNCfJS80w did you guys see this yet

wait yesterday

im always behind

like internet explorer

[worn bloom]

My only hangup with a new healer is that fear were going to have a repeat of ShB stale healer design.

[ivory wolf]

But the weapon LOOKS SO COOL

[worn bloom]

Don't get me wrong

I'm playing Sage

[cinder badger]

Paladin is the true hero. Always was.

[autumn heron]

with a shield I can protect my friends

[gaunt star]

ouch my pocket in this expansion

[viscid glade]

so how many times have we all watched the teaser so far

i think im up to 35

[worn bloom]

I demand we should be able to fly to the moon on a whale

[cinder badger]

SCREWETH YON RULES I HAVE CHIVALRY

[gaunt star]

we breath on the moon

[worn bloom]

I mean Power Rangers can breathe on the moon why can't we?

[cinder badger]

Yeah yoshi-p doesn't seem to understand that there's no oxygen in space on a desolate Moon with no atmosphere

[gaunt star]

im just baiting

[kind lark]

8 man whale

[gaunt star]

its called final fantasy

fantasy hello

[worn bloom]

A wizard did it.

[cinder badger]

@gaunt star didn't stop rinoa from Final Fantasy 8 from almost dying having no oxygen and she was a sorceress

[gaunt star]

FF14 is its own thing

doesnt matter what rinoa did

[mellow cliff]

gonna be a sad time being a healer main for a few months as the queues get overloaded lol

[cinder badger]

But you were using the Final Fantasy title as a defense

[untold gull]

we've gone through the void and back and surely there's no oxygen there...

[worn bloom]

I feel there will be less healers than everyone playing the new DPS.

Remember when Rogue/Ninja was released?

[untold gull]

you underestimate the power of weeb

[worn bloom]

I estimate the power just fine.

[gaunt star]

i mean theres a lot of shit happening in the story that dont make sense

[untold gull]

i think it'll be even tbh

[cinder badger]

I'm just going to say it was grapes

[worn bloom]

SAM and NIN channeled the weeb power.

[kind lark]

If its something dark it'll be very popular

[cinder badger]

Not only the where they delicious they allowed you to breathe on the moon

[gaunt star]

breathing in space isnt out of the question

[woeful dagger]

all that will happen with the new DPS is more people on the fence about playing MNK/NIN that don't wanna play DRG/SAM will go to that one

[cinder badger]

Grapes solve all our problems

[worn bloom]

Grapemancer.

[cinder badger]

You just discovered our new melee DPS it is going to be grape themed

[gaunt star]

maybe its due to zodiark tho

[tardy elm]

Animal Husbandry Crafting Job 💡

[worn bloom]

I mean after playing WoW, there is always demand for edgy classes/jobs so shrug

[gaunt star]

yeah but wow sucks

[worn bloom]

The point is

[gaunt star]

[worn bloom]

Everyone craves more edge.

No matter the game

[cinder badger]

Hydaelyn, Zodiark. If it's a primal it must be destroyed or my name isn't Azem.

[tardy elm]

Dark Knight should expand to Dark Dragoon, Dark Archer, Dark White Mage

[worn bloom]

FOR THE GRAPES!

[gaunt star]

i dont really care about edge, i just wanna have fun tbh

[worn bloom]

What about Dark Dark Knight?

[tardy elm]

Double Dark Knight 💡👍

[gaunt star]

blackest black mage when

[tardy elm]

I double dog dare square Enix

[gaunt star]

a dual wielding dark knight

[cinder badger]

@gaunt star with your name like that are you like the cousin of Hythlodaeus?

[worn bloom]

Dark Scholar

[gaunt star]

yes

[cinder badger]

Well tell him he owes me a barrel of grapes

[gaunt star]

he does not

[worn bloom]

I kinda wonder what other silly things Azem did.

[gaunt star]

imagine a not depressed emet selch

[worn bloom]

I imagine no one repremanded Azem too much since he provided a lot of entertainment.

[cinder badger]

Didn't Azem's antics frustrate bestest buddy Hades?

[gaunt star]

well Azems seat was all bout travelling so

what can u do to a guy whose barely around

[cinder badger]

But Hythlodaeus seemed to have encouraged Azem's deeds

[gaunt star]

hythlo big bain

[cinder badger]

It was implied Hythlo helped Azem in summoning Ifrita at the volcano

[gaunt star]

[worn bloom]

Think about it

Eos killed Selene and wears her as a skin suit.

[cinder badger]

Paladin would be Blackguard

Blackguard is an Anti-Paladin that is all about hurting and manipulating others rather than protecting them

[worn bloom]

Blackguards made pacts with demon lords and stuff

[urban turret]

Hey minor thing but

Did anyone else notice that unlike for the last 2 expansions, the trust image for estinien shown has lips

[maiden lodge]

That's... that's just D&D

blackguard literally just means villain.

[errant coral]

Fused jobs!

[digital forge]

god no

[maiden lodge]

So when you hear, in like swashbuckling movies:

'Unhand the princess you blaggard!'

"blaggard" is actually a pronounciation for blackguard.

[somber storm]

7.0 feature

[maiden lodge]

Plus, in FF14, even if you want to use the 'Blackguard = antiPaladin' analogy....

[errant coral]

Example a dark Dragoon can't tank but has some of dark Knights stuff. Like dark side.

[urban turret]

Paladins aren’t really LG in Ffxiv

[maiden lodge]

A Paladin in 14, goes back to the irl historical roots of being the royal guard of a liege. Nanamo, in this case. So, an 'anti-Paladin' would be an anti-government warrior... someone who instead of being the guard of the head of state, instead protects the common folk from the head of state.

And I just described Dark Knight.

[worn bloom]

They are more NG

[urban turret]

Nah not even that

[errant coral]

So la lawdul good vs chaotic good

[maiden lodge]

And no, Paladins aren't LG.

They're LN.

They're -literally- the guards of a sultana.

[urban turret]

Eh even that I disagree

[somber storm]

Sultansworn

[maiden lodge]

They're not 'do gooders'

[cinder badger]

@maiden lodge except you forget that we are a free Paladin and swear our Oathes to something that doesn't have to be particularly have to be a liege

[urban turret]

I’d say true Neutral if anything

[worn bloom]

Well it's best not to attached alignments to it.

[maiden lodge]

Which means we're 5e Paladins--we have no alignment.

[random ravine]

i think kawaiian was talking historically

[errant coral]

So they can bunch their say "I'm just doing my job"

[urban turret]

Paladins are about having strong convictions and beating people up to prove the power of them.

[worn bloom]

Alignments are only a basic idea of how a character usually behaves.

[random ravine]

but in general, paladins are supposed to protect the weak from those who wish to persecute them

[cinder badger]

In this case we swear our oath to GRAPES

[worn bloom]

Homebrew 5e Oath

[maiden lodge]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin

[worn bloom]

Oath of Grapes

[maiden lodge]

There's a history to the term which involves no holiness.

[urban turret]

Paladins are competitive assholes built around the idea of ideals and battle in Ffxiv

[maiden lodge]

It literally means 'of the palace'

That's where the name comes from. A paladin, is a palace warrior.

[errant coral]

very similar to Samurai with honor but with chivalry instead.

[maiden lodge]

I mean in romantic fiction, yes.

[somber storm]

Shout out to pathfinder classes

[maiden lodge]

And yeah, there is chivalry attached to the idea.

The 'holy' aspect comes in not from them being 'churchly' or whatever--it comes form the fact that in Europe, at the time, the monarch was believed to rule by divine right, and so the paladin's chivalry and noblisse oblige was an aspect of that divine right.

[kindred rampart]

I could hear the "uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh" during the stats talk too without the video

[urban turret]

Tbh Paladin super isn’t built on romance or anything. Chivalry and knighthood sure, but like in that way of knights beating each other up to prove themselves. It’s conviction and compition

[maiden lodge]

'romantic fiction' doesn't imply 'story of love'

It means 'fiction from the romantic era'

[urban turret]

True enough

It’s mostly

[maiden lodge]

And in the case of Charlemagne's Paladins, this meant questing, derring due, and saving the country and all that

[errant coral]

Well I mean the jobs in Final Fantasy XIV don't have much philosophy behind them. It's just different methods on killing or healing.

[maiden lodge]

and I want to give props to FF14 for actually acknowledging the historical origin and actual literal meaning of the term, in its lore

[kindred rampart]

missed opportunities to have PLD's being Smite crazy, undead punching, cross holding maniacs

[maiden lodge]

There's more depth there than I think you're giving credit for.

[worn bloom]

Excuse me

Smite is best spell

[maiden lodge]

Again, that's not a Paladin thing, except in D&D

That's never been a paladin thing in FF, anyways

[signal solar]

upon close examination, it looks like the scythe is barely visible in the front shot of zenos

[worn bloom]

Paladins in FF are generally Fighters that can use a bit of white magic and was that way for awhile.

[kindred rampart]

I know because PLD is basically just a Knight with Holy/Cure magics slapped on

[signal solar]

the lighting affects it differently in the frames following that, suggesting it indeed it in the foreground, not being part of the chair

[cinder badger]

You still can't claim it's a scythe but he is definitely holding something in that shot

You can tell his arm is draped over something

[signal solar]

very much

[worn bloom]

Honestly, he could be holding just about anything.

[cinder badger]

So the argument that it is part of his throne and that it's not symmetrical is bunk

[pine epoch]

The full trailer probably will have zenos show off the weapon

Or 5.5

[signal solar]

scythe is the best judgement we have at this point in time

[cinder badger]

Because what would he hold if not a weapon he's freaking Zenos

[balmy mesa]

he destroyed his katana though

[kind lark]

Didn't he step on his katana?

[teal geyser]

You know

Looking at the trailer again

[errant coral]

If he is getting a new weapon I wonder how did he obtain it.

[maiden lodge]

The fate of the world in his hands

[teal geyser]

can't help but feel like something is really really wrong with these creatures. I can't tell if they just can't be killed or.....

[maiden lodge]

The Terminus stuff?

[signal solar]

they are dahaks

[teal geyser]

They keep getting back up after totally getting murdered

[cinder badger]

The design of his bracers suggest that he is carrying a two-handed weapon

[kindred rampart]

teleported to where it was at
snatched it and teleported back

[half phoenix]

He'll probably get the scythe off screen in 5.5 or 5.55

[pine epoch]

The voidsent dragons alisae wol and alphy fight are not dahaks. Their terminus monsters from amaurot

[cinder badger]

You wouldn't need that much guard on his hands if he was wielding something he could swing with only one arm

[severe brook]

i've been calling them Terminus Dahakas because I can't remember what type of Terminus they're actually called

[maiden lodge]

Terminus Vanquisher, I -think-

[kindred rampart]

though that would be boring

[half phoenix]

"They're Terminus monsters" not from Amarout, they're being made by the towers

[teal geyser]

Well, we'll see

[cinder badger]

We are going to fight whatever it is that caused the final days

[severe brook]

they are probably being made by the towers but that doesn't mean they aren't Terminus

[teal geyser]

Fandaniel's dialogue I can't help but make it sound like at least the big ones are ones that existed back in the day too

[maiden lodge]

They have the exact appearance of Terminus Vanquishers, and it IS Final Days 2.

[half phoenix]

Yes but not FROM Amarout

[worn bloom]

When did they have time to create those things anyway?

[half phoenix]

they happened to also be IN Amarout

[flat merlin]

Final days 2 electric boogaloo

[kindred rampart]

he probably kills a bunch of things before he finds what "feels" right

[maiden lodge]

They mean, litearlly, the dungeon.

[teal geyser]

fuck you that's when

[errant coral]

Sealed away perhaps.

[pine epoch]

I'm talking about the dungeon mob

[maiden lodge]

As in, they're from the dungeon... that's where you see them.

[worn bloom]

Get Tidus out of here.

[half phoenix]

Then how are they getting to the Source >_>

[cinder badger]

The actual thing that caused the discourse and everybody's Magic and led to the catastrophe

[maiden lodge]

That's not what they mean by the word 'from'

[viscid monolith]

Coming from the towers probably

[severe brook]

i mean if we want to be technical the Vanquishers were all in space

[viscid monolith]

They're the same creature as from Amaurot

[teal geyser]

😦 damn my original statements got murdered by this argument

[maiden lodge]

Like if I say 'Hey, that's Brad Pitt from Fight Club' you're not going to ask how a character from a movie showed up at a hollywood event.

[pine epoch]

When I said their from amaurot I didnt PHYSICALLY meant it. I meant in a more figurative sense

[half phoenix]

Its like people trying to say the statues in Amdapor are Sin Eaters

[pine epoch]

That it's the same model and color

[cinder badger]

It's Azems thing after all.

[viscid monolith]

Didn't look like they dealt a fatal blow to any of them

[cinder badger]

Whatever caused the end of days caused the end of Grapes as well.

[maiden lodge]

No, it's not, they're not literally claiming it came from Amaurot. They're saying 'This monster is identical to, and probably the same type of creature, as that which we experience in the piece of content called Amaurot'

[worn bloom]

I really rather disliked where WHM's went to flavor wise.

[half phoenix]

"from Amarout" was their exact words

[viscid monolith]

They mean from the dungeon Amaurot

[severe brook]

that's because we saw them in Amaurot recreated Amaurot recreated Outer Space in the Amaurot dungeon

[pine epoch]

Yes I said from amaurot. But I didnt mean from amaurot I the physical sense. But I the figurative sense

[viscid monolith]

Not literally from Amaurot like they walked from there

[maiden lodge]

Yes, they did. They did say 'from Amaurot.' You're aware that 'from' doesn't always mean 'this thing literally came this origin'

[cinder badger]

Amaurot is ancient for "City of the Grapes"

[maiden lodge]

It has other meanings?

[half phoenix]

And you can stop replying directly >_>

[maiden lodge]

For example 'That's from that tv show' when referring to a reference

[errant coral]

Only absorbing people's fears from the Towers and creation them.

[maiden lodge]

'Artemis in Eden's Promise comes from the temple in Greece, the fertility statue'

[teal geyser]

idk man, between maiming this one, the excessive laser beams, and the fact that it falls down and lays there still and then you have to argue "well if it did get up because it wasn't fatal then why is it just there for so long on the ground doing nothing" and I guess you can argue "talking is a free action" but this just stinks

https://youtu.be/JZznVr_wKbM?t=93

[maiden lodge]

'Hades' name comes from greek myth, but it's also a reference from FF9'

[kindred rampart]

Zenos: I am going into battle and I want your strongest weapons!
Gerolt: My weapons are too strong for you, traveler!

[woeful dagger]

I can't wait for Gerolt to somehow end up on the fucking Moon

[spare warren]

I need the trailer song like now

[mossy iron]

Gerolt would have the balls to tell Zenos no

[worn bloom]

I feel like Zenos would stab Gerolt tbh.

[somber storm]

Well

[mossy iron]

Either that or Rowena would

[somber storm]

Rowena would

[mossy iron]

Heh

[half phoenix]

no, Hades and Artemis REFERS to those gods and myths

[woeful dagger]

Rowena: Gerolt, you gambled 5 trillion gil to the Moon People?!? And now you're their Smith slave?! Warrior of Light, you know what that means!

[somber storm]

We know who wears the pants in the relationship

[worn bloom]

I feel like Rowena would kill Zenos for doing it.

[mossy iron]

We absolutely do

[maiden lodge]

Yes, that's what the word 'FROM' can mean

And that's what they meant.

[somber storm]

Gerolt of Rowena's Sundries

[teal geyser]

neither because belts don't exist anymore

[maiden lodge]

If you're going to be pedantic, don't be WRONG and pedantic.

advice I should take sometimes tbf

[kindred rampart]

Gerolt: I hear tales of the moon being made of cheese which means there must be. . .WINE!

[somber storm]

Rowena still wearing a dress

[errant coral]

Shes going in 100%

[half phoenix]

From: indicating the point in space at which a journey, motion, or action starts.
From: indicating the point in time at which a particular process, event, or activity starts.
Refer: mention or allude to.
Refer: pass a matter to (another body, typically one with more authority or expertise) for a decision.

[somber storm]

Dresses don't need belts

[worn bloom]

Rowena is going to pioneer space travel.

[pine epoch]

Guess arkansas is back ass backwards then if From can't be used to Reference something.

[woeful dagger]

The wrong kinds of dresses maybe

[viscid monolith]

https://i.redd.it/x4d83wo6g4g61.gif

[mossy iron]

I keep saying it

[pine epoch]

And yes I'm doxing my state

[half phoenix]

From =/= Refer

[mossy iron]

Rowena already has a store on the moon

[worn bloom]

Or she's secretly an Ascian.

[teal geyser]

damn right

[maiden lodge]

Yes, it actually can, in this language of English.

[viscid monolith]

Is English not your first language

[woeful dagger]

Rowena is from the Moon. Rowena was Azem this whole time.

[pine epoch]

ARKANSAS

[viscid monolith]

You could just say that

[mossy iron]

[half phoenix]

No, its because people can't be bothered to use words we already have, and just use whatever for what they want

[teal geyser]

"Oh hey that's pandaemonium from FF2"
Does this "from" mean a reference?

[woeful dagger]

languages evolve

[maiden lodge]

No, it's literally because they used the word correctly and you're inferring the wrong meaning from it, and when corrected, you're doubling down; it's a mistake I make some times.

[woeful dagger]

No from means it has to derive. As such, that pandaemonium is not from FF2 because it's literally not taken directly from the 2d game world of FF2.

[errant coral]

Is there a hell?

[teal geyser]

it's here

[woeful dagger]

God Cali learn some English

[mossy iron]

2020

Hell is 2020

[viscid monolith]

This argument is stupid. Everyone understood what they meant but you and then you had to keep going trying to justify it.

And refer wouldn't work in this context anyway

[teal geyser]

I'll be honest, I genuinely thought they meant from Amaurot too

like actually from Amaurot calamity

[maiden lodge]

For example, if I say 'Humans came from a common ape ancestor' I'm not literally claiming you, me, and everyone here crawled out of an ape vagina one sunday afternoon, like that's not what 'from' means.

[woeful dagger]

We're all from Amaurot if you think about it

Since we're all just sundered Ascians

Well the WoL at least is directly from Azem so is definitely from Amaurot

[worn bloom]

mmm grapes

[mossy iron]

Heh

[maiden lodge]

inb4 the lore literally is 'it's the same creature, literally, it was just on vacation fucking up the dragonstar'

.....whoa

[teal geyser]

Well the WoL at least is directly from Azem
No fuck you I've lived my own independent life, I'm not directly from Azem eat shit

[woeful dagger]

https://youtube.com/shorts/K1v8SnHVyWE

[viscid monolith]

It doesn't have to work like that. Azem was a different person and doesn't need to define the current WoL. The WoL is from wherever they were born.

[woeful dagger]

my bun as the WoL

[cinder badger]

I just miss the conversation but all I know is Amaurot was only a city. Dialogue from the shades in Amaurot suggested of other peoples from other places in the world

[maiden lodge]

Okay, so, like... what if... the Telephoroi are interstellar world destroyers, using guile and manipulation, and they were the ones who set up the Dragonstar/Omega's world war

[teal geyser]

not relevant to the conversation

Soz

[woeful dagger]

Amaurot was both a city and an empire I am pretty sure

[teal geyser]

Um, I do think they are interstellar wold destroyers but not to do with THAT war

[maiden lodge]

'Why do you destroy worlds?' 'Cause fuck you'

[maiden lodge]

'Did you do that?'
'Naw, they were fine without us, and their cooking sucked'

[cinder badger]

What if the Ancients actually created Omega it'll make it just got lost somewhere in outer space not realizing that he was on the world that created him only sundered

[kind lark]

Yeah it was the biggest civilisation on that planet

[viscid monolith]

Amaurot was a city. I'm not sure they even had empires nack then.

[pine epoch]

Ok so if I use From to reference something will I be fine

[cinder badger]

They didn't need Empires

Everybody got along Everybody Was the Same

[teal geyser]

Yeah does it count as an empire or nation when the whole world was probably just one people?

[woeful dagger]

They surely had empires because half an entire planet's population agreed to kill themselves for a Primal.

[pine epoch]

Are we done

[maiden lodge]

That'd mean a war between the Ancients and the Dragons, and considering one of those Ancients became the heart of Hydaelyn, I think that memory would still be there and Hydaelyn would not have made a pact with Midgarsormr. Who, himself, also would likely recognize he's gone to the planet of his ancient space enemies

[teal geyser]

How does that mean anything?

What?

h-how?

[woeful dagger]

Ethnostates are definitely still a nation.

[maiden lodge]

hammer and sickle singing intensifies

[teal geyser]

I said nothing about ethnostates

I just mean, if the entire world is like, one people, and there is not multiple factions does a nation exist?

[maiden lodge]

Yes, in fact, that's the goal of a lot of empires.

[woeful dagger]

If you look at old nations beliefs, yes.

[worn bloom]

I think were thinking a bit too hard on this.

[woeful dagger]

There's no such thing as thinking too hard in #retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[maiden lodge]

There is an imperialism inherent in a world-wide monoculture

[teal geyser]

I never said monoculture

[worn bloom]

It feels like people trying to piece together the LoZ timeline before they revealed it.

[teal geyser]

is my point getting across?

[errant coral]

So final days 2.0 or 1.5

[maiden lodge]

That's fair.

However, no, we know Amaurot wasn't an empire in that sense, because we know Amaurot isn't the only nation or people of that time

In fact, they're isolationist

[worn bloom]

You were in a debate, if they should help people in a crisis or not.

iirc

[woeful dagger]

That timeline is all a lie anyways

My timeline is the only TRUE timeline

[maiden lodge]

Theres a debate about whether Amaurot should remain isolationist or should extend its reach to the world during the early Final Days, from two of the shades, as an example

[errant coral]

The ancient did mention that they do see other races as children.

[teal geyser]

No they see YOU as children

[mossy iron]

Cause height

[maiden lodge]

implying Emet does.

[mossy iron]

We is a smol

Plus young

[maiden lodge]

Emet has a complicated relationship with kids

[teal geyser]

noooo

[errant coral]

Heightism!

[maiden lodge]

yes. Amaurot is a reflection of Emet.

The shades act according to his wishes, and his subconscious.

[teal geyser]

very smart baby

[mossy iron]

I'm 5'4", I am not tol

[worn bloom]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/782132773460246568/795978249851109406/FB_IMG_1609846364636.jpg

[woeful dagger]

I am 6'0"

[teal geyser]

They don't all act like Emet

[mossy iron]

Emet would mock my height

[kind lark]

That lovable smug bastard