Its own theme.
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
bold condor
open verge
Was that when he stabbed himself with aether
polar star
You could call me a satisfied tank main.
glacial fossil
cries in no new healers
bold condor
"Triumph" and "The Worm's Tail" are good themes but it would be weird if they remixed that, right?
open verge
Give him something new
bold condor
Because those themes are grounded with the "Storm of Blood" verse.
viral dew
Worm's Tail would be nice to be remixed
viscid monolith
They can use the Orchestral version of Triumph
maiden lodge
"Triumph" and "The Worm's Tail" are good themes but it would be weird if they re...
I've always thought of his themes to be more the Nael-reused one
bold condor
Meteor, yes.
glacial fossil
diamond weapon is just nael again lol
bold condor
You mean Tempest.
viscid monolith
But I figured they were saving that for whatever Ultimate Shinryu will be in
grand parcel
worm's tail already got a remix in dissidia i think
bold condor
Tempest would be a good choice, it is a ROCKING theme.
late aurora
Nael 2: this time she’s a moon
polar star
Zenos should get a theme in 5.5 or next expac. It will be a distorted version of Worm's Tail or something from Stormblood.
maiden lodge
It would, my only concern is that it's wayyyyyy too long for a Weapon P2
bold condor
Tempest is easily one of the most underused and underrated Uematsu tracks in this game.
open verge
Oh Nael
viscid monolith
NT's version wouldn't fit
maiden lodge
Tempest is a fucking journey though
glacial fossil
i just really want to fight lunar bahamut
maiden lodge
It goes on forever like great prog
bold condor
Perhaps, but it depends on how many phases it functionally has.
viscid monolith
Tempest might be the only song in game that doesn't loop
bold condor
And how you pace the song.
urban turret
Tbh I expect a healer (Apothocarian) and a magic dps (zenos shows up and casts draco meteor)
bold condor
For example, if the trial had an Active Time Maneuver in it.
polar star
Yknow what we need? A tank with 100% uptime
open verge
Yea okay
bold condor
You could parse the pieces of the song pretty easily that way.
open verge
Back to bedroom grandma
viscid monolith
Ya I can see that
polar star
Let me dream, rain
open verge
I want to see one zone get completely destroyed
viral dew
Hammer Healer, Cleric.
open verge
Geo
polar star
Cleave
open verge
Magitek
polar star
How's prog going
maiden lodge
Yknow what we need? A tank with 100% uptime
pfft, they won't even make a melee with 100% uptime
viral dew
Astro already exists
viscid monolith
viral dew
Geo would be pointless to add
viscid monolith
I think they could use this
viral dew
AST quests already explain
open verge
viral dew
GEO and AST are literally the same fucking job
viscid monolith
Then again the loop is kinda short
urban turret
Tbh I can’t imagine that they’ll add a healer this patch without it being apothocarian
maiden lodge
GEO and AST are literally the same fucking job
Except for the conjury that's included in there, the wind, water, and earth magics
viral dew
Astrologian of the Earth
viral dew
versus Geomancer of the Heavens
maiden lodge
And the story isn't that Geo and Ast are the same, it's that Ast gives a new perspective to Geomantic divination.
urban turret
Yeah GEO and AST are just two sides of the same coin. Like you know. BLK and WHM
viscid monolith
They aren't the same but they are comparable
viscid monolith
They compliment each other
open verge
“ geo and Astro are the same exact in the way it’s not”
bold condor
Notice the Weapons so far haven't had their own vocal themes? Usually the trial series has at least two.
open verge
maiden lodge
Notice the Weapons so far haven't had their own vocal themes? Usually the trial ...
....wat
bold condor
Just remixes of past vocal themes (Ultima and Rise of the White Raven).
viscid monolith
Vocal themes?
bold condor
Yeah.
viscid monolith
Like what
bold condor
Fiend, Equilibrium
maiden lodge
I guess?
viscid monolith
Oh
bold condor
Amatsu Kaze, Sunrise
maiden lodge
Equilibrium's also a remix of a past theme
dim sigil
the 4 lords
maiden lodge
BOOOOOOM
bold condor
Is it?
open verge
Ruby has vocals
maiden lodge
Yes.
urban turret
Also it’s been pretty distinctly said GEOs... don’t heal. They blow shit up
open verge
Lol
bold condor
Which one?
maiden lodge
Hang on let me find it
dim sigil
beating heart of sabik
open verge
No phase 2 of ruby is lyrics
viscid monolith
What kind of theme would it even have
late aurora
Witness ultima
viscid monolith
Rend the shield of light
late aurora
Destruction
open verge
Really?
bold condor
Yes.
dim sigil
emerald phase 2 is basiclly a smt boss theme add nocturne lyrics
viral dew
yeah
viscid monolith
Ues
viral dew
Rise of the White Raven is 1.0
open verge
Wtf
viscid monolith
Would you like to see a 1.23 fight
bold condor
An instrumental version is even the theme of Gaius's elevator fight in 2.0.
open verge
Ruby doesn’t have new music
maiden lodge
https://youtu.be/5RAop96h_xc?t=16 @bold condor
maiden lodge
Emeralds theme is a fucking banger
'theblackwolf'
bold condor
"The Black Wolf Stalks Again"
bold condor
I'm... struggling to hear Equilibrium in that.
viscid monolith
No breaks
dim sigil
that 1.0 gameplay
bold condor
I'm not gonna lie.
late aurora
“The black wolf stalks again”
But he’s gold
maiden lodge
Sing the lyrics to that exact part.
It follows the same melody and chord progression to a T
open verge
I hear it
maiden lodge
Once you hear it you can't unhear it
bold condor
Which lyrics?
open verge
Stained in red
maiden lodge
To Equilibrium?
viscid monolith
Imagine a timeline where 1.23 didn't shut down and we were all playing that.
bold condor
It doesn't sound like it
There's more than one part of Equilibrium's lyrics. Sheesh.
maiden lodge
The chord progression's spot on
open verge
Still a stretch
viral dew
bold condor
I literally don't know which part I'm supposed to sing.
I need you to help me.
I don't even doubt you, just tell me which part.
maiden lodge
Compare the chord progression of the lyrics (literally all of it) and the part, starting where I link, follows it exactly, the entire lyrics.
maiden lodge
Literally the entire thing
bold condor
Dude, literally all you needed to do
Was write the first word of the song that needed to be sung
maiden lodge
You want me to identify which part... but... it's the entire thing
viral dew
i just wish we had the 1.0 PLD stance
maiden lodge
Well no Rom
maiden lodge
You match the start of the lyrics with where I linked
late aurora
I’m a band nerd and even I can’t tell any similarities
viscid monolith
I wouldn't call it a remix
bold condor
Did it have to take me five minutes to puzzle out that this was the right place to begin?
I wasn't even trying to argue that you were wrong, I just genuinely felt confused.
Goodnight, Dis.
maiden lodge
Daring Dalliances is musically referenced in Equilibrium.
dim sigil
Even then it's so unnoticeable
maiden lodge
The structure is also the same
brazen stag
FF has so many musical references to itself I wish someone with a background in sound engineering would sit down and isolate them all for me.
Tangentially related to the topic of FF music Matoya's Relict keeps giving me Banjo Kazooie flashbacks even though it's just the cave theme in a particular style. Like some serious Gruntilda's Lair vibes.
primal basalt
yeah, i love it
forest magnet
Late but the reason why I said that Kuja was 'simple' was because it came up during one of my countless discussions on Zenos and simple villains
brazen stag
Simple doesn't have to be a bad thing in this context, right?
torpid yoke
Ye
brazen stag
It has the Thunderer leitmotif.
But as far as I can tell those themes are both FFXIV originals.
Can't really pick out anything I recognize from other games.
forest magnet
Interesting, I didn't pick out thunderer when I heard it
brazen stag
The mood is very different tone, it's like how I could barely hear Without Shadow in Shadows Withal until it was pointed out to me.
forest magnet
O12 has a lot of Torn from the Heavens motifs
brazen stag
(I did not know the orchestrion titles at that time to help me out)
And knowing what is happening in E12 I think Thunderer makes a lot of sense now since, I mean, this is technically an "Ascian Boss Theme", kwek.
forest magnet
I like how we're probably going to get the traditional X.5 garlean dungeon
serene crest
inb4 9.5 dungeon continues the legacy of Garlean dungeons
forest magnet
Fandaniel said that he wants us to go fight Zenos and then Zenos is currently chilling in the Garlean capital, it looks like Garlean expansion
oak pike
man i hope alex moukala does a break down for E12 music
forest magnet
but then Zenos teleports to who knows where and that's our new area
oak pike
oh we definitely gonna touch garelmald
brazen stag
I don't know if Zenos can ever appropriately be described as "chilling" even while in repose. I think it might be more appropriate to call it "biding", kwek.
pulsar current
his vibes are wack but he is vibin
forest magnet
vibe check
brazen stag
heady shadow
think he'll get his own original Theme?
forest magnet
like shouldn't zenos come out and fight us instead of inviting us to him
whatever happened to 'thrill of the hunt'
we're being blackmailed to fight him
it kinda goes against his mentality
brazen stag
think he'll get his own original Theme?
Maybe a remix of Steel Reason that is actually good? kwek
severe brook
I think the idea is that he wants us to come out to a "Prepared Arena" so that we can have "the most exciting battle"
oak pike
I feel like zenos got a wild card up his sleeve
empty moss
we fight harder when our friends and family are at stake
severe brook
he doesn't want just a repeat of what happened in Ala Mhigo
forest magnet
but the prepared arena is going to be in eorzea
that's where all the towers are
well there's one in doma
heady shadow
maybe
severe brook
There's a tower in yanxia too
heady shadow
or just something new
severe brook
so the implication seems to be that they're everywhere
brazen stag
Why not just take all of Garlemald... and teleport it on top of Eorzea?
severe brook
i wouldn't be surprised if there were some in Ilsabard as well and we just haven't seen that yet
empty moss
Zeno's wants the feer of loss to drive us
heady shadow
tbh I'm not a fan of some remixes in this game
severe brook
or alternatively, the towers are to be a driving force to bring us to Ilsabard
with the threat of tempering everyone into the Empire anyway
brazen stag
severe brook
even though we have a cure now, it is still costly to implement
with the amount of living aether necessary to put that cure into practice
empty moss
we will use the tower's to reverse it
they are basicly beacons
imo FF scientists are worse than the rouge soldier/warriors
oak pike
I forgot garleans been messing with aether stuff before
i barely remember that one boss from ala migho who knocks your conscious out of you
severe brook
i'm still not certain the Garleans are directly behind the Towers
like I don't really see them looking Garlean in design like they said
they look too organic
like if they were metal worked into organic forms, which isn't usually what garlean stuff looks like
...though i guess some recent things of theirs are like that, like the WEAPONs
empty moss
no the towers are def acien*
severe brook
i mean i was guessing that they're Mhach in design, but were set up and are now being used by the Ascians
them being in Yanxia has put a stop to that idea though
unless the design was just originally Mhachi and is now being reproduced further by Fundungus
ashen violet
brazen stag
Mhachi stuff is quite mobile if they had capacity for a colony ship powered by hell near their end.
I wouldn't toss your theories just yet.
The aesthetic is similar. But Ascians have access to a lot of stuff and definitely had agents in every major city of every age.
empty moss
i wonder , with the time divergence of Source and First if in the future we will get a first time skip and see an older GNB Ryne
serene crest
Likely not, tbh. Considering they would need to have both pre and post timeskip versions of the map available.
Ryne & 
Gaia
severe brook
you'd have to take down the light wall in amh araeng probably
not sure if i see DRK Gaia personally
open verge
Was that the last time we see ryne and gaia
severe brook
i wouldn't be too surprised if they become recurring npcs throughout the First like Alpha & OMG
open verge
If we even get quests on the first
regal lantern
Is the key to everything instrumental going to lay with Royal Allagan blood from now on?
I have a strong feeling that 6.0 Allagan blood will continue to be an important factor
brazen stag
not sure if i see DRK Gaia personally
Not a chance. Although her Fray being Loghrif would be funny.
open verge
Will they tie void quests into Eden
Tie void quest into everything at this freaking point
severe brook
If anything I'd put Gaia as becoming a sort of Sorceress like Y'Shtola, but having her own repertoire of time and darkness powers as opposed to having "X of the Seventh Dawn" spells
and some miscellaneous Ascian powers worked in
regal lantern
Gaia and Ryne will become the Gosetsu and Hien of ShB
brazen stag
Sorry, every time someone mentions the Sorceress job I get really disoriented because Sorcerer is one of the many nationalizations of Rune Fencer so it's odd for me to hear it as a sort of mage despite it being a much more appropriate title for a mage instead of a mage warrior.
regal lantern
Gaia and Ryne will become the Gosetsu and Hien of ShB
You won’t see them much after 5.4, and even more rarely so since I don’t see why we’d ever need to go back to First anymore.
Except for occasionally consulting Beq Lugg? Nothing else is there that we can use. There’s no alliance, no direct connection... if anything we’re trying to separate the connections so there is no unwanted rejoining
torpid yoke
Sorry, every time someone mentions the Sorceress job I get really disoriented be...
mage knights :D
brazen stag
It does make Kam'Lanaut seem even more like an Emet parallel because he's basically a "sorcerer" as a rune fencer and Emet is a real sorcerer and is even called a sorcerer in Through His Eyes and in his own fight says the line "Behold, a sorcerer of eld! Tremble before my glory!" Whereas Kam'Lanaut has a line "Tremble before my might!" 
regal lantern
Pretty much everyone says something along those lines
Even Titan, Ifrit, Garuda, Ravana, etc
brazen stag
They both refer to mortals as vermin at one point, kwek
When Kam is facing Odin he questions if Odin is "the lord of this underworld".
an I'm like "oh, you know a different underworld?"
gloomy tide
When did Allie suddenly sh ow up in the Emerald Weapon story?
I had to walk away for a sec then I suddenly see her
brazen stag
Kam'Lanaut is of an ancient race who wants to break down the walls of reality, absorb the gods, and restore his ancient civilization to paradise through the sacrifice of everyone else. Sound familiar?
midnight nymph
her brothers hid her away i think!
it was only after the fight while valdeaulin* and severa were searching for traps did they find her
brazen stag
He's much less depressed than Emet. Not as interesting but still an alright character.
gloomy tide
Cool cool super thanks.
brazen stag
He's got that grandiose sort of attitude. Like an evil Urianger.
The whole "ancients trying to reclaim the world" thing is nothing new, but Shadowbringers does it better than Rise of the Zilart did in my opinion.
I'm pretty confident most people here would agree, kwek.
maiden lodge
Sorry, every time someone mentions the Sorceress job I get really disoriented be...
In this case though, it's a callback to the Sorceress job in FF8--'Majo' which itself is a callback to the original FF Majo--Matoya.
aka Witch
regal lantern
Can someone tell me what’s the logic behind the raen orphan’s plan?
They’re sacrificing themselves so their sister can live happily? Are they really that silly to think she’ll be happy after all that, losing everyone close to her, knowing they sacrificed themselves?
They could have stolen the weapon plans and fled to Eorzea and fought against it. Like their whole story feels like we’re being forced to feel sorry for them but I can’t feel sorry knowing how flawed their logic is. They want to rise in ranks by what? Do they think if they succeeded in beating WoL, they’d get respect in Garlemald with Valen around?
gloomy tide
I don't know either, I think the whole thing is stupid.
carmine basin
Stealing the weapon plans and fleeing is probably not as easy as saying it. The people who did manage to escape Garlemald had some luck too.
Seems like they have no other choice, they either die being used on Valens' experiments, or die trying to do their current plan. At least with this, one person can live a happier life in their place.
Also, Alfonse's plan is to beat Valens and then the Empire with the weapon, at least that's what I remember him saying at the end
My memory's kinda vague on ruby and sapphire though x_x
subtle pasture
Something about knowing they’re expendable and if they ran away, Valens would just abuse and force more into their positions.
carmine basin
That too yeah
subtle pasture
Also to either make a weapon that can turn against him or die trying- and take the weapon with them
They wanted to feed the Weapons primals in order to make them stronger against Valens, but knew Gaius and WoL stand in the way— but fighting us is a win-win for their plan, if they can kill us, Valens is nothing, if not, well,
He loses a weapon
maiden lodge
Can someone tell me what’s the logic behind the raen orphan’s plan?
They’re sac...
We see what happens to kids who are around Valens. We see how they grow up.
Getting Allie out, and trying to use the weapons to stop Valens, is the only form of agency they really have in their situation. Allie loses her siblings--but she isn't in a horrible abusive home under that man.
subtle pasture
Like Alfonse wanted Valens to be forcing him into Diamond, and the Oversouling soon as he’s in the cockpit isn’t a deterrent apparently
maiden lodge
This is the only option they know--the only option they'd been taught by Gaius. Become strong, and protect the weak. The alternative is to continue as more and more children 'Burn Out The Bad.'
regal lantern
I still find their logic to be flawed. It seems they are sacrificing themselves for no reason
subtle pasture
What was it the other orphans kept Allie in the dark on, it wasn’t Oversoul killing the pilot obviously
maiden lodge
They kept her in the dark that they were willing to do it.
regal lantern
I cannot understand why they couldn’t just run from the start
Or at least try
Like they were all there in Terncliff
maiden lodge
Alphonse shows us what happens when one runs.
subtle pasture
Gaius’ “the strong must guide the weak.” They take the lashes and sacrifices so the weak don’t have to
regal lantern
And do they believe their death will save the weak?
maiden lodge
They know what Valens will do in their absence.
regal lantern
And do they believe their death will save the weak?
Because it surely won’t
maiden lodge
They believe that either their Father and the Warrior of Light will disarm Valens, or they will have the power to defeat Valens themselves.
They're not just thinking of Allie--they're also thinking of all those children that Valens pretty much has as hostages.
subtle pasture
It’s not that it doesn’t make sense, it that’s more flaws in Gaius’ ideology— that he instilled in them
regal lantern
Leading the weak =/= dying for no reason. But yeah overall I always saw them as sort of delusional from Ruby stage
maiden lodge
They're trapped in an abuse cycle.
wary perch
The kids are trying to perfect the weapon so they can use it defeat valen and garlemald
maiden lodge
They don't want to run away from their problems.
wary perch
But the logic is naive ofcos since valen won't let them roam free without failsafe
regal lantern
Exactly
maiden lodge
Yeah, but I mean, what choice do they have really?
subtle pasture
Alfonse does have the benefit of there’s no way Valens could make a Zenos clone that’d obey him
But that’s pretty much all he’s got going for him rn 
maiden lodge
Alfonse does have the benefit of there’s no way Valens could make a Zenos clone ...
(assuming he doesn't use Elidibus combat data)
wary perch
I wonder will allie become the pilot for diamond weapon and Yoshi will do an Eva reference when Gaius open the cockpit to pull out Allie
drowsy ivy
Well she is in alliance custody
And is the only one with the brain of not willing to do it
wary perch
I'm not sure on that since the cutscene imply she has her own plan
She maybe willing to sacrifice herself so Alfonse can live just like the others willing to sacrifice for her
That rainbow crystal in the empty remind me of an rainbow ice cream from a certain brand
untold gull
oh yeah, btw, did anyone celebrate that valens has, in fact, a punchable face?
wary perch
I was not expecting an old hag face
And it's generic old man face too
I think he share the same face from the priest who throw the boy off the roof from the vault and the old man from hw Hildebrand quest
gusty quest
I imagine that if Allie does pilot a mecha it'll be the G-warrior. After all we haven't had our three trials that we've had in the past (Warring triad), (Four lords) and I could see her piloting it to help out with fighting against the diamond weapon
She might think that if the Diamond weapon is stopped quickly enough Alfonse can't use oversoul, since she doesn't know Valens will be activating it remotely. Leading to one final gut punch for the poor girl when Valens activates it
wary pond
did VA of cid change or my ears have issue?
carmine basin
Apparently he wasn't changed, just that we haven't hear him talk in years
wet crown
And they all recoded from home. So the quality of it all is lower than usual.
coarse pond
He sounds like a dude who tries too hard to sound like a badass
Like poor man's mcree
wet crown
pls don't compare anything to ARR
carmine basin
Everyone's VA changed ARR
wind bough
Jury's still out on whether Cid's VA has changed
If it's the same actor, then he's certainly not recreating the voice very believably
but I don't think he's spoken since uh...3.5/3.56?
And that wasn't very many scenes
So he could have forgotten how he did it back then
There's a bit of that going on with Aymeric too
We'll know when we get the 5.5x credits I guess
wary pond
aymeric was fine tho
coarse pond
Yeah
wet crown
Aymeric was too hyper in his presentation but that might just be because of the lack of direction
coarse pond
Same
carmine basin
Yeah it made Aymeric seemed like he was simping so hard for WoL
carmine basin
Harder than usual
coarse pond
Like Ameryc on the screen looked like slightly happy but voice was like after some happiness drugs
carmine basin
I felt bad for Julia behind him 
coarse pond
Like his voice would fit if Aymeric actually hugged wol while saying that or something
But he just stood there
With slight smile on the face
carmine basin
Kind of fitting to the situation though
coarse pond
Depends, voice and animation waz out of sync I'd say
carmine basin
"OMG WOL YOU'RE HERE I DIDN'T EXPECT TO SEE YOU I'M SO HAPPY! You need Ceruleum? Just take it all!"
coarse pond
XD
carmine basin
Feelsbad tho that he's the first person that wants to go on adventure with us but can't, meanwhile G'raha eventually got his wish
wet crown
that's not exactly true
carmine basin
That's only one time though, was talking about more longterm kind of adventure
weary adder
i just noticed the tower in the dravanian forelands, thats so neat
weary adder
are there towers in every major area?
pastel coyote
they are kinda everywhere
weary adder
how cool
placid sail
it reminds me of 3.5
weary adder
yeah, i wasnt around for 3.5 but i get what you mean
proud estuary
Hmm?
placid sail
when the glowing dalamud thing hung over the east shroud for a few months
weary adder
very menacing towers
placid sail
and we had no idea what it meant
proud estuary
Sauron
placid sail
it was just floating there... menacingly
weary adder
i mean you kind of knew what it meant, in the sense that its a big ball of oh god oh fuck
proud estuary
Existing menacingly
placid sail
well we did know a bit nore about it
that there was a primal inside
but not which primal
proud estuary
Glory be bahamut
placid sail
this idea of a patch ending in a big floating cliffhanger that you can stare at for the next few months
that's what I mean
weary adder
yeah
proud estuary
I was just dissapointed with the lack of zenos
placid sail
what if the moon turns red at the end of 5.56
weary adder
theyre saving him for wedding day
weary adder
because he doesnt need it anymore
proud estuary
I want it
placid sail
what kind of weapon is he talking about
proud estuary
Gimme ame no habakiri
weary adder
have to be a very menacing weapon
proud estuary
It was
placid sail
maybe zantetsuken?
proud estuary
The blade of the red kojin
pastel coyote
this
proud estuary
No
placid sail
fuck zenos could do it
proud estuary
Too long
proud estuary
Couldnt we possibly too control zantetsuken?
placid sail
maybe?
weary adder
i think that zenos doesnt want a sword
weary adder
i hope at least
proud estuary
I think 550 or 580
marsh osprey
what?
weary adder
it would be so cool for zenos's weapon to be some crazy ass thing
proud estuary
Why not
placid sail
based on previous trends
it will be i535
anima weapon is i275, eureka weapon is i405
marsh osprey
yeah
at best 5 ilevel above but usually same
and in this case 5 materia slots
so somewhere in 5.5 its BiS
unless you are a tank
placid sail
bis is in the moment
placid sail
what I said, bis is in the moment
wind bough
did you prevail
tiny seal
Is mitron the warrior of light or something
unreal hound
i like cal he is nice
pastel coyote
wind bough
I hear Cal is very firma
cinder spindle
late trail
So Zenos forgetting Fandaniel's name is probably a running gag at this point
placid sail
I hope that he's going to mispronounce his name all throughout 6.0
Fandango, Fandanger, Fandancer, Fandandidgeridoo
wind bough
Zenos to WoL https://youtu.be/E_5E6W_vW0E
WoL, who was that gastropod?
Fandaniel, sir
One of your foot lickers from the Telophoroi
noble tartan
We've gone from bestseller novel villains to cartoon villains again
thanks papa zenos
wary pond
seriously wtf
its literally fkn neo exdeath
though he may be scary
since he is meaning to destroy everything
he will be sure to do it
still he us now cheap
he may have his reasons but still
why the fuck
placid sail
was that chart where the ascians are being kept track of updated yet?
viscid monolith
It doesn't need to be updated
empty moss
wait, so is Anogg a machine lifeform?
wind bough
They both might be.
rain onyx
According to friends the big white orb is Drakengard 1 lore stuff
I haven’t asked in detail or looked it up >.<
drowsy belfry
Oh sure it was super bad news then
But it's Norvrandt baby
it's Hydaelyn's rules now
and Hydaelyn's rules say "Anything dangerous in a side quest is jack shit compared to the WoL"
autumn heron
I would like to kindly remind everyone
When Emer first showed up most people disliked him too
viscid monolith
Huh non they didn't
autumn heron
We've literally only had 2 scenes with Fandaniel
drowsy belfry
Oh yeah that's how it always goes with the XIV community
viscid monolith
People liked Emet Selch immediately because they eat this type of character up
drowsy belfry
"I hate <X character> they SUCK I DON'T WANNA SPEND AN EXPANSION WITH THEM"
2 months later
"uwu lil baby uwu uwu love love"
See: The Exarch
wary pond
emet was awesome when he poppedtho
drowsy belfry
I'm just saying
Zenos is going to have ONE or TWO backstory scenes in 6.0, and literally everybody who's currently going "I hate Zenos bah bah bah bah" will go "ZENOS THE BEST VILLAIN OF FFXIV??'
wary pond
fandaniel is basically a worse asahi
and i thought asahi is worst char
pastel coyote
well Emet was theatrical when Fandaniel is more.... a joker ? a bad one
drowsy belfry
pastel coyote
sure if you want
viscid monolith
He's being a much more exaggerated Emet Selch
wind bough
Yeah majority of loud voices were super hype for Emet when he appeared
He was well received from the get go
viscid monolith
Hey Lyon what do you think about people saying Laha and Igey were "close"?
wary pond
also man zenos have strong legs to break katana by steeping on it
potent marsh
you think we're going to the moon or fighting lunar bahamut on the moon?
wary pond
stepping*
viscid monolith
I know people have been shipping them for years for no reason but after Eden people are taking their fusion to mean they were close when they were alive.
pastel coyote
we already did during 5.3
wind bough
I don’t think there’s any evidence that indicates they were more close than average
potent marsh
also man zenos have strong legs to break katana by steeping on it
i mean, have you seen what hes done so far
autumn heron
I do be kinda finding it funny that people are calling Mitron Gaia's x-bf
When at the end she clearly still wants to be with him
wary pond
laha was close to ige as good as mitron was simping to loghrif /s
carmine basin
See: The Exarch
Wait did people react like this before ShB
drowsy belfry
Mhm
Thanks to 4.55
People were like FUCK THE EXARCH
FUCK'EM I'M GONNA FUCKIN KILL HIM COME 5.0
Then literally like 4 months later
"uwuuuuu"
autumn heron
Exarch directly endangered everyone
carmine basin
I mean, dude was abducting scions for reasons we don't know
drowsy belfry
Oh yeah I'm not saying it wasn't justified
viscid monolith
It was justified
drowsy belfry
But I am saying that the XIV fanbase flips on these things
viscid monolith
We didn't know who he was or what his purpose was. And he almost killed us. So it was perfectly logical to haye him.
drowsy belfry
Like it takes a little bit of backstory for people to suddenly go "I always loved <x>"
carmine basin
Elidibus was the biggest flip
viscid monolith
After they met Exarch and he actually showed up on screen people liked him..
potent marsh
how many ascians are left with mitron and gaia out
drowsy belfry
¯_(ツ)_/¯
We don't really know
One popped up in 2.x despite having died right before that scene off-screen
polar star
Like I wouldn't mind if Exarch abducted us at a better time but he fucking abducts us during a battle with fucking Zenos
drowsy belfry
All the others are M.I.A
carmine basin
Btw when we defeat ascians with auracite, it only applies with that shard of the ascian, right (specifically talking about Nabriales and Igeyorhm)
viscid monolith
I will say that I think Lyon was off when he said all of the ones we killed could be back
Emet Selch did say they short on numbers
drowsy belfry
Oh i thought you meant reincarnation
Or did we finally come to an agreement on whether or not aurcite'd Ascians actually go to the aetherial sea
viscid monolith
They go to the sea
drowsy belfry
Okay good
drowsy belfry
Cause honestly I really want Emet and the WoL to meet up again in another life
Throw Hythlo in there
why not
Also about Ascians coming back
carmine basin
I would laugh if the 'Zenos is Hythlodaeus' theory is true
drowsy belfry
I doubt we'll be seeing any surprise Ascians that got re-upped between 2.x and 6.x
I mean if it is I'll fucking eat my shoe
autumn heron
I saw someone get really mad over ascians being the big thing in Eden
Which should have been obvious considering they said right before ShB came out Eden would be directly relevant to MSQ
drowsy belfry
I mean ending the remaining Ascians has been pretty much the thing for 5.x
carmine basin
Gaia being the Oracle of Darkness means Ascians would be involved too
drowsy belfry
I'm just surprised they managed to wring out two more
In like a good way
"Oh yeah here have two Ancient names and also Mitron's death"
torpid yoke
a lot of people feel that way
craggy gale
theyre dying faster and faster
carmine basin
Might be because we fought ascians for 5.0 and 5.3
torpid yoke
which is confusing since the ascians are the reason it flooded in the first place
carmine basin
Idk people have weird expectations for this game and get mad when it's not fulfilled
drowsy belfry
I mean weirdly enough some people really really prefer it if XIV was just "Previous FF the MMO"
And get upset when some like
old ass boss from a game from 20 years ago isn't in the game
Biased I know but like I love that E12 wasn't Ultimecia
craggy gale
where is zeromus anyway
drowsy belfry
Probably somewhere in space
Also if I had to describe the dynamic between Elidibus and the WoL during 5.1 - 5.3
It's this song
carmine basin
I haven't played all of FF but based on the ones I played, I think I would want to have Sin from FFX to appear in XIV
wary pond
so only legit way to kill ascians is by sucking their aether or destroy it
but how e12 work?
we didnt really kill mitron
?
drowsy belfry
E12 essentially didn't give Mitron a chance to escape to the Rift Between
Probably cause it would've killed Gaia in the process
drowsy belfry
She didn't get reupped nor her body destroyed
Ascians don't have bodies
so they can survive in the Rift Between
I dunno I'm just spitballing, but it's pretty clear cut Mitron's doing the big sleep
If anything blame it on the huge aether release of Eden
open verge
The part were ryne saves gaia and then the flowers pop up showing the new empty was really cute
autumn heron
ShB in general is Ascians the expansion
Plus I would have found it hilarious
If Ultimecia was a Savage exclusive
They did it before where you only got to do the real Omega fight in savage
serene crest
The part were ryne saves gaia and then the flowers pop up showing the new empty ...
||A partial recreation of FF8s ending that was.||
open verge
Oh really
red talon
Wait, why did Mitron die, we didn't use white auracite
open verge
He didn’t die
forest magnet
his soul dissipated
forest magnet
Gaia on a quest to find infant mitron
drowsy belfry
Nah
red talon
Isn't that the plot fo 7 deadly sins?
drowsy belfry
Gaia also died without Auracite 100 years ago
So Mitron dying isn't much of a stretch
🚘
forest magnet
we all will tbh
I've floated the idea of a FFXIV sequel set in the 8th Astral Era featuring Azem's soul resurfacing.
drowsy belfry
Mh I was gonna mention about Ascians returning
good chance that if there is an 8th timeline game/expansion
all 13 Ascians are back
forest magnet
well maybe we can finally flesh out 
drowsy belfry
Lahabread
forest magnet
and more Emet Selch is always welcome, especially for the cult.
drowsy belfry
I actually bounced around the idea in my head that in an 8th Timeline Expansion
Emet somehow finds out that we came from a timeline where he died
so he just joins the party
"Well fuck you killed me once, you're stronger then back then probably as well so fuck it let's work together AZEM"
forest magnet
Emet somehow finds out that we came from a timeline where he died
that wasn't my idea since our soul wouldn't have come from that timeline
it would just be the doomed timeline
drowsy belfry
Oh nono I meant in the case the 8th Timeline is an Expansion and not another game
drowsy belfry
I actually like the idea of an Emet joining the party that's a reverse of how he was in 5.0
forest magnet
i mean he did kinda do that
drowsy belfry
Oh yeah but I meant just getting actually buddy buddy with the WoL
We just casually drop that we know we were Azem
and Emet's like
drowsy belfry
OH YEAH WE COULD
viscid monolith
Xuan do you know what that entails?
forest magnet
I'm spitballing, lance.
viscid monolith
We just summon a swarm of flying pigs and sick them on him
And he'll be too confused to react
drowsy belfry
"what the FUUUUUUUUUUCK"
viscid monolith
Xuan I'm saying you came up with the perfect cutscene
forest magnet
Alisae: VERPIG
kindred rampart
wonder if by 6.0 we'll have more detailed recollections of Azem and squeeze in a bit of creation magic into us growing more powerful
SMN could possibly awaken a form of Ifreeta for their 90 quest for example
viscid monolith
The perfect out of context cutscene to get people interested in XIV
drowsy belfry
Y'know what I have the perfect clip for this
forest magnet
wonder if by 6.0 we'll have more detailed recollections of Azem and squeeze in a...
The only recollections of Azem that exist now are in the memory stone aren't they?
viscid monolith
And like 5 other shard
serene crest
The only recollections of Azem that exist now are in the memory stone aren't the...
Hythbrodaeus says the only things in the crystal are the name of the office and their unique teleportation spell.
kindred rampart
The perfect out of context cutscene to get people interested in XIV
I seriously know someone who started playing because of this gif
https://i.imgur.com/f86pUxd.gif
viscid monolith
7 Calamities + Ardbert + Source = 9
So there are 5 shards left
Living their lives
forest magnet
they wouldn't have their past memories tho
viscid monolith
Nope
potent marsh
do you guys think zenos gets up from the throne to get something for the fridge before going back to sleep?
viscid monolith
Just doing their thing
kindred rampart
nah Zenos is getting his BiS
drowsy belfry
Leaked footage of 8th Timeline Emet being untempered from Zodiark
"It's so quiet"
autumn heron
There is a very real possibility FFXVI might take place in the XIV universe
In another shard
viscid monolith
No it does noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot
drowsy belfry
God I hope not
ripe flint
It'd be funny.
autumn heron
Im literally just going off on the fact that they used the term Eikon and Joshua seemingly turns into Ifrit
Nothing concrete
wary perch
Run estinien run
kindred rampart
I hope they add a few optional quests to go on an untempering tour down the line. I would like to especially help Loonh Gah's mother
viscid monolith
There was a fan art post of Krile and Tataru T posing on Estinein while he cowers in a corner. I need to find it.
autumn heron
Im thinking the untempering may be MSQ
Or may be off screen since as long as the primal currently isnt summoned you dont need WoL there
Just Graha and Alisaie
wary perch
What's the faction that fandaniel is in?
Telesomething
First time we heard of it right?
serene crest
It’s Telophoroi btw
torpid yoke
wonder if by 6.0 we'll have more detailed recollections of Azem and squeeze in a...
people would be mad. Some already think its a mcguffin and already hate it even though it was stated it only has the teleportaion spell and the office name
drowsy belfry
I mean right
On one hand I'd love to know more about Azem and Hythlo's Excellent Adventures Feat Emet
But on the other
I'm pretty happy with what we got, if we left the Ancient's story here
I'd be okay with it
polar chasm
Knowing thevmsq writer they probably will
placid sail
i could see them do follow-up quests to a bunch of beast tribes where you help them untemper people
drowsy belfry
Awww that'd be cute
placid sail
unukalhai got a follow-up quest and I never thought I'd see the day
torpid yoke
( i just think them having a teleportation spell isnt a case of bad writing since if it would be our echo flashbacks never happening when we really need it is also a case of bad writing)
placid sail
I love how the nu mou's response to you bringing Unukalhai with you to the First is "we go through all that effort to get people out of the First and now you bring new people in here?"
autumn heron
The the last msq cutscene is kinda short
X.4 patch is always short MSQ wise cause its basically " Oh the xpacs story is done....what are we gonna do now?"
carmine basin
We still have allied beast tribe quest
placid sail
yeah it just gets the ball rolling for the next expansion
3.4 had the Griffon whipping up Ala Mhigan refugees
4.4 had the first few Scions getting called to the First
it's both to set up the next patch and to set up for the expansion announcement
drowsy belfry
I actually find it funny that after alot of complained about the non-ending that is 4.55 and it's no cliffhanger
they just went
"Okay you want a fucking cliffhanger??? YOU WANT A FUCKING CLIFFHANGER ENDING FOR THE NEXT EXPANSION??"
And we get graced with Lunar Bahamut and angry Towers everywhere
Just imagine what the fuck the stinger will be for 5.5 part 1
placid sail
I am starting to see some merit into that lunar cry theory
polar chasm
Whats the theory?
polar chasm
It kinda happened already now that you mention it
buoyant hatch
I like the description on unukalhai's spirit vessel btw
kindred rampart
@placid sail or garlemald itself is turned into a landmass primal
Here's your Garlemald everyone!
NOW KILL IT!
buoyant hatch
Better don't tell anyone or everyone will rely on you for interdimensional ferry services
Or something like that
polar chasm
LOL
polar chasm
What if both allie and alph die because daddy gaius deserves it
kindred rampart
G'raha: Has anyone noticed how much money WoL has been throwing around lately?
WoL: counting profits from sending an entire city's worth of people to the first
drowsy belfry
I mean that'll be a fucking twist I'll give em that
dull atlas
(speaking of which, a Summon-Your-Own-Primal system would be intereseting)
next quarry
If 6.0 doesn't have that little guy
I am going to Yoshi p
And showing him a 30 slide presentation on why
polar chasm
I hope next expac is some lush or jungle areas im sick of deserts and snow
kindred rampart
WoL on vacation expansion
drowsy belfry
I hope next expac is some lush or jungle areas im sick of deserts and snow
From what we've seen of Ilsabard right now that ISN'T y'know Garlemald
There's a good chance we'll get a Jungle
polar chasm
I know the bozja lune has a island
autumn heron
Aside from the tempering
The only plotline still left open is the roar within the earth
polar chasm
Was pretty nice
autumn heron
Lunar Bahamut probably might have something to do with that
dull atlas
in before Genesis appears as a villain
dull atlas
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/a/ae/Pandemona-ffviii.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20140310011943 ok, Pandemona then
serene crest
No bring Gackt back harder and have him keep the goofy accent too
dull atlas
wait, Rinoa's dog has a full name?
serene crest
Sant Angelo di Roma
dull atlas
yes
livid oracle
god I wish the new eden armor for casters was for tanks. It looks like Gaias, and she uses a hammer, not a cane, wand, or book. ugh... I guess i'll get it anyway.
autumn heron
Wait what
Oh I read that wrong
I thought you said Gaius
And yea Gaias outfit is full Gothic Lolita
So makes sense it would be for casters
livid oracle
I mean sure, but Gaia herself isn't exactly a mage
serene crest
Loghrif was a mage tho and Gaia does use magic except it's kind of broken and doesn't always work how she wants.
livid oracle
no, but I know Gaia casts time spells, and given her lineage, so maybe her hammer is just an elaborate casting focus,.... that she uses to beat people with when not casting
autumn heron
Tru but in context of XIV, gothic lolita is heavily scewed towards black mage
Hell the AF4 gear for BLM is also Goth Lolita
livid oracle
I wanted to like Eddas armor, I really did, but the amount of starch used in it to keep it so rigid... ugh
next quarry
Ye
late trail
So that white orb
gusty quest
I just saw the trailer for sephiroth being put in smash and it makes me wish that when the diamond weapon is oversouled that we'll get to fight sephiroth in some capacity. But alas it is not to be
late trail
That's a fucking Seed of Resurrection from Drakengard 1, isn't it?
gusty quest
Yep
late trail
That's not gonna end well
gusty quest
This can only end in tears
nocturne void
late trail
Speak not the Watchers
torpid yoke
the watchers dance
muted sandal
So I’m going to attempt umbra savage with a pug. I expect this to go horribly
torpid yoke
probably
gusty quest
We'll pray for you
muted sandal
Thanks
I’ve watched strat vids on the fight to give myself a good idea on what I’m getting into
bold condor
You know
The Werlyt quests try to walk back the "my quarters, one hour" Gaius and Livia thing
By saying he kept her at arm's length
gusty quest
It's too late now
bold condor
But actually all that does is make it seem like Gaius, moments before the battle, decided to indulge in a woman that he was intentionally neglecting.
Which is actually somehow worse.
bold condor
You wrote a dude who fucked his daughter, guys, you can't walk it back.
Gotta accept it.
bold condor
Indeed. Too young for him.
gusty quest
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Valens did that to his wards
he seems evil enough
bold condor
I prefer not to think about it.
torpid yoke
gusty quest
Yes, don't. Instead think about how the evil prick will meet his end
torpid yoke
so about those teleposi
bold condor
Telophoroi
torpid yoke
and them seeds of destruction
gusty quest
I personally hope Valens gets crushed underfoot by the diamond weapon
autumn heron
Im 100% sure Gaius is gonna kill him
Considering Valens has been torturing and killing his adopted kids
gusty quest
Aye, I imagine after watching his adopted kids die one by one and then the eldest Alfonse bites the dust I think by that point Gaius would pull the mother of all Terminus est's on Valens bitch ass
autumn heron
Gaius is a good dad except for that one time he banged his step-daughter
torpid yoke
could be that they are retconning that
gusty quest
Yes, although Livia is a huge bitch, doesn't condone it. Just a huge bitch
autumn heron
Livia was insane
bold condor
They can't retcon it without changing the dialogue.
Anyway, Gaius is a complicated man.
autumn heron
He probably one of my fav characters
gusty quest
When she was dying I said to myself "For gods sake woman go out with some dignity. Be like Rhitatyn."
Gaius is the best
gaunt star
One question tho
gusty quest
Except for the time he banged his adopted daughter
torpid yoke
They can't retcon it without changing the dialogue.
was that cutscene not voiced?
autumn heron
Which is why Im really hoping the next xpac is Ilsabard cause I want Gaius to have some time in the spotlight
bold condor
It wasn't voiced, I'm just saying until they change/remove that dialogue, it's not retconned.
Also, um.
gaunt star
Hmmmm
bold condor
Okay, so like there's a LOT to unpack there.
gusty quest
The player character is azem, the other adventurers are just blessed by Hydaelyn
bold condor
There is only one reincarnation of Azem from the Source.
bold condor
But reincarnation of Azem is not equivalent to Warrior of Light.
gusty quest
Pretty much
gaunt star
The player is being Azem.
bold condor
The player is not Azem.
gusty quest
Just not in an ancient form
gaunt star
ow
gaunt star
ah i see
bold condor
Ye ye it's always easier with the Avatar comparison.
torpid yoke
bold condor
They've got some similar traits, of course.
Like how the Avatar tends to always be doing about the same thing in each lifetime.
But they're different people with their own experiences and individual identities.
gusty quest
God avatar was a good show
autumn heron
I would also like Fordola to come back into play but it wouldnt be very believable if Lyse and Rauhbahn just let her go
bold condor
She
autumn heron
The Ala Mhigans would be pissed too
bold condor
She isn't let go.
Oh, you mean if they let her go now.
I mean
If this shit is tempering
Having one of the few people on hand immune to it
Would make sense.
torpid yoke
inb4 its not traditional tempering so it cant be cured the same way as primal tempering
bold condor
Nah that'd be way too convenient.
Besides, we already know that the cure for tempering is, like
Hard to disseminate.
And also that the more someone is tempered, the harder it is.
And it can't reverse physical transformation.
Honestly, that's more than enough restrictions on it without making it totally useless.
autumn heron
Next Xpac your crew will be for most of it:
Gaius, Fordola, Alphinaud, Alisaie and Graha
Calling it now
bold condor
I really do want Fordola and Gaius to have a talk.
Because we know he's the one who created the Crania Lupi.
I mean, it's in the name... and also the name of the quest "The Black Wolf's Pups."
And, much like his adopted children, the moment he was gone, the Skulls got shat on by the rest of the imperials.
Because Garlemald is the worst.
torpid yoke
when i meant cant be cured the same way i meant you can just beat them up to cure them XD
bold condor
lmao
random ravine
Did Gaius also have a hand in Yotsuyu's promotion?
bold condor
No.
random ravine
@autumn heron unlikely. Since fordola is pretty much universally hated by her people
It would be bad optics for the Scions
bold condor
Her people's view of her is irrelevant - also we're
Literally
Working
With Gaius
You know, the guy who pointed a superweapon at the realm?
The one who subjugated Ala Mhigo in the first place?
Like, Raubahn had him in his meeting room y todo.
Baelsar's Wall has his name on it.
Hell, Fordola's Skulls are named for him.
"Black Wolf." "Crania Lupi."
"Wolf's Skulls."
Plus, we were willing to give Yotsuyu a second chance and she literally killed for fun.
torpid yoke
rommy its snack i dont think they're caught up yet XD
bold condor
...Hell, we even extended it to Emet-Selch and that dude murdered several worlds and created Garlemald.
random ravine
Cuz isn't Yotsuyu almost an entirely different person due to her amnesia?
autumn heron
And Y'shtola explicitly asked to see if we could make peace with Elidibus
bold condor
Yes, more or less, but then the question is where the line is drawn.
It's not like she had a debt she could reasonably pay to society, Yotsuyu was basically erased until Asahi messed with her.
forest magnet
Kinda brings up the ethical question if wiping a person's memory should be used as punishment
bold condor
Fordola, on the other hand, saved Ala Mhigo's council from enslavement to Lakshmi and has been working to kill primals without complaint.
autumn heron
Plus Lyse and Rauhbahn spared Fordola the death sentance she rightfully deserved
bold condor
If she wants the chance to fight the actual end of the world, like
It'd be way too petty to say no.
random ravine
Oh snap... Fordola got a pardon?
bold condor
And she would want that chance.
random ravine
Nice
bold condor
No, she was pardoned from death.
She's currently a prisoner.
And is released to kill primals.
random ravine
Oh ok
autumn heron
Shes still got life in prison basically
bold condor
Under the watch of Ul'dah's summoners and Arenvald.
random ravine
She still has her resonant powers right
random ravine
So pretty much she can break out anytime she wants if it's only arenwald watching over her
bold condor
I mean, she's usually in a prison cell.
Also she has a choke collar around her neck.
fallow mist
Any updates on the cerberus mount ?
vale flower
But actually all that does is make it seem like Gaius, moments before the battle...
honestly, that whole part was just so badly done, to the point i wished they just didn't mention livia at all :/ i know they tried to put distance with the whole pseudo-incest thing but on top of what you mentioned it felt so victim-blamey towards livia even though she's very much not on the higher end of their power dynamics.
bold condor
Mhm.
Gaius victim blames Cid in both 1.0 and 2.0, too.
And is likely the reason the Skulls victim blame.
viscid monolith
@bold condor Gaius at this point seems to accept that all the blame is on him
But now it just makes it seem like he was totally ignorant or just turned a blind eye to all the abuse in the Empire.
Like, did he really think the brutality ended after conquest?
He didn't know about all the beatings, racism, r*pe, and murder?
primal basalt
gaius is an idealistic boy