What do you think are the chances that by the end of the story the WoL ends up fully rejoined?
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
red talon
viscid monolith
And being used as fuel
vale flower
elidibus is powering the basement thermocoils now
viscid monolith
That would be unethical Master
ashen wyvern
I remember the tower being able to do that, but it doesn't necessarily converts them right away, more like...stocking ? but yeah elidibus is fuel now 😂
red talon
I doubt that it'd be something we get a say in if it happens
viscid monolith
@Cleave can slow mode please be turned off it's not busy anymore
@viral dew
Considering our other shards on other shards living their lives the odds are 0
viral dew
!modcmd slowmode 0
lusty shadowBOT
viscid monolith
Thanks Cleave
red talon
I am speed
ashen wyvern
unless the remaining shards are wols of their respective worlds and are somehow forcefully needed to do that...I think not, but you never know
pastel coyote
FREE
maiden lake
So lets see.. the 3 unsundered are gone... the sundered... 1 we killed at the waking sands, 1 thordan ate... 2 more we just met... Sooo 7 ascians are basically dealt with We just met Fandaiel totally of 8. Soo we haven't met 4 ascians right?
pastel coyote
gimme a sec
rain onyx
rain onyx
The only unknown is Emmerololth
viscid monolith
We don't need to update
We assumed that Mitron and Log were dead already
We were half right
3/4 right
maiden lodge
it doesn't have their masks.
wind bough
Mitron mentions that another Mitron has probably been raised. Same could be true for another Loghrif as well.
rain onyx
Gaius beat up 2 red Asians, but it’s not fully known if he normal “killed” them or full on killed them
viscid monolith
Damnit
maiden lake
He normal killed them
wind bough
All of the sundered seats could conceivably be filled by replacements at the moment.
maiden lake
He probably doesn't know how th real kill them
viscid monolith
Maybe those 2 will fuck of f and go fuck somewhere
wind bough
He did properly destroy Loghrif. Loghrif's soul returned to the Lifestream and was reincarnated.
viscid monolith
He's talking about Gaius Lyon
wind bough
oh
red talon
Since when is Mitron dead? In the eden raid they said that while they were trapped in eden Emet just raised up another shard of them
urban turret
Well it’s been mentioned emet might have gotten replacements for mitron and logirif
maiden lodge
Mitron 2.0: 'AFTER TWELVE THOUSAND YEARS I AM FREE! IT'S TIME TO CONQUER EARTH!'
Lohgrif 2.0: 'And that's why I don't remove your ballgag, hun'
maiden lake
Well if any ascians die at this point they are basically done. No one is able make them remember anymore since the crystals are gone
maiden lodge
Well if any ascians die at this point they are basically done. No one is able ma...
Unless you know, one happens to be turned into a giant sin eater and misses their girlfriend and....
wind bough
Unless they use the fusion method like Mitron did with Gaia
maiden lodge
Yeah
wind bough
but I feel like that story will be a one-off
red talon
Wait, they're gone? What happened to them after we gave them to Elidibus?
urban turret
Mitron 2.0: 'AFTER TWELVE THOUSAND YEARS I AM FREE! IT'S TIME TO CONQUER EARTH...
Nchggdhvjbbjchchvhgnnjvhchchc
maiden lodge
I don't see Fandaniel giving a shit to do that.
turbid helm
Mitron has a tier 3 sub on Lohgrif's twitch
viscid monolith
So if they fuse with another shard of themself they can reform?
wind bough
Wait, they're gone? What happened to them after we gave them to Elidibus?
unclear
north fulcrum
Mitron also splits from Gaia and dies in the E12S cutscene but I've also not watched any of the story so
No fuckin idea
viscid monolith
It's still interesting
north fulcrum
Nah it's the real canon 
oak pike
man i share zodiac signs with lahabread
maiden lodge
In universe, it's literally Mitron's fan fiction
urban turret
Mitron had some fanfics
north fulcrum
Remember that time Alexander fused with all the robots to become ultimate robot man
maiden lodge
SERIOUSLY
SAVAGE IS MITRON'S FANFICTION ABOUT HIMSELF
viscid monolith
When Mitron dies all that is left is Loghrif. Which just makes a giant Gaia.
gaunt star
I member when brute justice surfed around on cruise chaser
maiden lodge
No wonder E2S was such a pugstomp
keen hedge
Nchggdhvjbbjchchvhgnnjvhchchc
i though we took them again
urban turret
Self insert fanfic where he does halfway through
maiden lodge
IT MAKES SENSE
maiden lake
Also we dunno if that was even Gaia's true personality at the time. Pretty sure Mitron obessive personality kind of took over at that point
maiden lodge
Wait wait
E2S is a pugstomper, cause Mitron fanfiction
Then he leaves out Gaia saving the day in E8S because, you know, he doesn't want to ship them
Then E12S he ends it with Gaia going 'I WILL AVENGE YOU ARTYKUUUUUUUUUN'
Mitron is writing simpfic
next quarry
Have fun!!
oak pike
oh fuck you kawaian you made it canon in my head
north fulcrum
Far as I'm concerned that is the lore
maiden lake
So basically Fandaniel and Emmerolth aside... We dunno where 3 of the active ascians are
urban turret
Hey remember when yslle canonically came back a second time just so she could have an extreme
wind bough
All 10 sundered seats could be filled currently.
maiden lake
Kind of wonder if they will be crazy nut jobs like Fandaniel or... nice people
keen hedge
who is phastarot? i cant remember
maiden lake
Not without the crystals and someone actively doing it
mighty light
Mitron is writing simpfic
Now I have to deal with the fact that the last thing Omega did before it died was write self-insert fanfic
urban turret
Yeah and
mighty light
And then fucking
Send it attached to its last message to the WoL
keen hedge
it bothers me, knowing that my character destroyed the soul of his ancient bestie
gaunt star
Omega was defeated by a magic teapot.
maiden lake
Well to be fair we tried
urban turret
Look now it lives in a tiny toy that follows alpha around
mighty light
Yeah
urban turret
That’s canonically actually omega
mighty light
Yep
ashen violet
So e12n music is based off of the burn which... happens to be based of the praetorium
I'm not sure of that's deep lore but that's deep lore alright 🤔
mighty light
Although it might still end up dying at some point the way that story is written
red talon
Who thinks that one of the H&Z arcs final fights will have us summon our symbol infront of our face?
north fulcrum
Your ancient bestie was essentially gone by the time you killed him
there was barely anything left of him
except a shell
mighty light
And apparently it's been totally isolated from the world in every meaningful way since then
maiden lake
And we really didn't have a choice against killing our buddies. They weren't really of the right mind
mighty light
Because everybody thinks it's just a toy
maiden lake
Heck we basically left after they decided to summon zodiark
Like literally went fuck this I am out
keen hedge
Your ancient bestie was essentially gone by the time you killed him
it does not make it easier in my eyes
viral dew
maiden lodge
Now I have to deal with the fact that the last thing Omega did before it died wa...
Let me make this worse for you.
O10N is omega's fanfiction on midgarsormr.
O10S is Jessie's fanfiction on omega's fanfiction on midgarsormr
mighty light
O9S-O12S is all Omega's work though
red talon
I cant wait to fucking murder that guy
maiden lodge
Wait
mighty light
It sent you modified combat data
keen hedge
And we really didn't have a choice against killing our buddies. They weren't rea...
true, but it still should cause pain, if remembering the final days bring sadnness even to the ones who cannot remember it
maiden lodge
Did Omega write fanfiction about us consuming his fanfiction?
maiden lodge
Cleave I hope he the next trial
I don't want him to be a dungeon boss, I want him dead NOW
Like on a scale of 1 to Ilberd, he's gone past Sloppeh
viral dew
nah
urban turret
1 each isn’t that much
viral dew
don't let him have any glory as a trial boss
make him die as a mid boss of a dungeon
like the trash he is
red talon
He somehow gets forced into the mecha by the remaining au ra
mighty light
Like I said yesterday
Have him be a mook
Have him go down to one slap of a BLM's staff
maiden lodge
He somehow gets forced into the mecha by the remaining au ra
THIS
I want THIS.
I want HIM in Diamond Weapon, turned into goo
signal solar
valens, the sweatmongerer
viral dew
maiden lodge
"lolumad"
red talon
He's literally the most hateable dude in all of FF14
viral dew
you thought Ilberd was worth to be hated?
mighty light
Actually
maiden lodge
He out Ilberd'd Ilberd, that's impressive
viral dew
Well Valens is worse
ashen violet
Oh he looks like the DLC dude from FE:3H huh
pastel coyote
burn the bad modo !
viral dew
Van Hydrus is a hero in comparison
brisk quail
ROUND AND ROUND THE WHEEL GOES WHERE IT STOPS NOBODY KNOWS!
ashen violet
Slimy
mighty light
I've been expecting him to end up in the Diamond weapon to be honest, but I thought it would be his own choice
If he actually gets forced in
I'd be down for that
urban turret
I want to put his head into a garbage disposal
red talon
ROUND AND ROUND THE WHEEL GOES WHERE IT STOPS NOBODY KNOWS!
I am mildly annoyed by the 2 blue panels next to each other
mighty light
(Or if Alphonse gets forced in, then immediately slaughters Valens and we have to stop him)
maiden lodge
Honestly though I can see them kicking the puppy more by having him decide HE is the combat data for DIamond and that... that'll just make him worse
pastel coyote
well it seem obvious, maybe a bit too much, that he will be killed by Gaius
mighty light
Gaius doesn't get to do that IMO
maiden lodge
Naw.
viscid monolith
Honestly though I can see them kicking the puppy more by having him decide HE is...
Who is he
mighty light
I'd like to do it ourselves, but if it's not us, it should be the kids.
brisk quail
I want to put his head into a garbage disposal
Let's put a fork valens in the garbage disposal.
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING
north fulcrum
@viral dew That almost looks like Gaston and I love it
maiden lodge
hang on
viscid monolith
Wait but his combat data would be worthless
maiden lodge
no I know who I want
signal solar
the sweaty dude at the end of the sapphire weapon quest
maiden lodge
Wait but his combat data would be worthless
Like he gives shits at this point
viscid monolith
He does care. He isn't THAT unhinged
signal solar
his combat data just makes us sweat uncontrollably
viral dew
i am still a fan of Van Hydrus, in comparison to what Valens is
maiden lodge
Look, VvV has three character traits. He gives no shits, he drinks milk, and whatever the absolute worst thing he can possibly do, he will do that thing
viral dew
Van Hydrus made you dislike him at first, but then came the part for Zurvan
maiden lodge
because he can
signal solar
and he sweats
viral dew
and changed the view on him entirely
bitter cloud
So... why doesn't Alisae just use some of the Kobold crystals for the porxie?
viscid monolith
Nah Regula is still a piece of shit
next quarry
Hydrus was respectable the whole way through imo
marsh osprey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljMeXRA7RDY this music man, we can do a very hard rock cafee with that
next quarry
Still a garlean, but eh
viral dew
Van Hydrus gave his life to save a Warrior of Light
mighty light
So... why doesn't Alisae just use some of the Kobold crystals for the porxie?
They're earth-aspected crystals
unkempt bloom
is the e12s mount a spoiler
viral dew
along with his own men
maiden lodge
So... why doesn't Alisae just use some of the Kobold crystals for the porxie?
unsure, but it's logical not to use earth crystals to counter earth corruption
marsh osprey
not really
next quarry
It's just eden
marsh osprey
e12s mount is just eden
maiden lodge
is the e12s mount a spoiler
No, it's eden
next quarry
marsh osprey
you have a eden minion too
bitter cloud
Ah, so we needed unaspected aether?
urban turret
I like that they brought back the “hey eorzea is kinda racist” story
unkempt bloom
my FC cleared da thing
maiden lodge
Ah, so we needed unaspected aether?
I think it's more 'that's the wrong kind of aether.'
marsh osprey
wait you cleared e12s already?
maiden lodge
If you want to be technical, it probably requires lightning aether but that's not really the point
marsh osprey
unkempt bloom
my FC did
marsh osprey
damn man
pastel coyote
a question remain unanswered: will they hold hand during the festival ?
unkempt bloom
i was only on their crafting team
next quarry
sfia is in the image
marsh osprey
were they trying worlds first
bitter cloud
mk gotcha, tyty~
marsh osprey
cuz id guess they did
next quarry
Yea
unkempt bloom
they were and they did
marsh osprey
wait
signal solar
radians
marsh osprey
signal solar
TPS
next quarry
Eden also has a mount action
marsh osprey
not bad
red talon
what does it do?
unkempt bloom
its glowing from behind, kind of cool
signal solar
marsh osprey
other static just unga bunga lets clear 4 raids in 2 days
maiden lake
I don't think she needed unaspected or whatever... I think she needed living aether honestly to counter the tempering. Pretty sure any elemental aether would just cause a different version of tempering?
maiden lodge
other static just unga bunga lets clear 4 raids in 2 days
Well, world first statics clear world firstly, best not to compare oneself to that.
red talon
Yeah, I assume aether comes in many different forms even when not considering elemental and astral/umbral alignment
brisk quail
||I never thought I could feel nostalgic for the bite of the black wolf until Emerald weapon||
That was a pure bop
next quarry
I wanna clear E12S one day
marsh osprey
im sure i could clear e12 next week if i had the static for that
maiden lodge
I don't think she needed unaspected or whatever... I think she needed living aet...
Well, to be teeeechnical, to destroy earth aether you need lightning aether, cause that how aether work. but that's beside the point, using those crystals would mean using earth aether which would definately be counter productive.
mighty light
I don't think she needed unaspected or whatever... I think she needed living aet...
Probably would have mentioned it if it needed to be living aether, although I guess that would help to explain why BLMs can't just, y'know
Fuel porxies indefinitely
marsh osprey
but im sure as hell not a long time raider yet to get into one of those
maiden lake
Actually can a primal temper another primals tempered?
mighty light
Maybe?
brisk quail
Pretty sure if your aether is stagnated it can't be changed stagnated more until it returns to the flow it once was
But that's just me
maiden lake
Unno maybe?
wind bough
Not according to our 1.0/ARR understanding
ashen violet
so were we able to reenter the royal menagerie after all?
mighty light
Yeah but in ShB we learned it was possible for people with the Echo to be Tempered
wind bough
Ifrit's high priest assumes we can't be tempered because we're already tempered.
maiden lake
Us aside though
wind bough
Yeah perhaps it's just a matter of powerscale
how powerful the relative primals' influences are
maiden lake
Us aside because... Our tempering is weird
mighty light
We're not Tempered.
maiden lake
If we are even tempered
maiden lake
Eh? when?
mighty light
The fact that Gaia was no longer Tempered after she was reincarnated.
maiden lake
She was tempered?
maiden lake
Yea she died
mighty light
Ynne, we've died many times
brisk quail
We have plot armor. Doesn't count
signal solar
she was tempered to zodiark
brisk quail
urban turret
Also Explanation of tempering clearly =/= the echo and what we are.
signal solar
probably through elidibus
ashen wyvern
there's a sort of tempering that lingers in the soul, as emet implied, but the extent of it probably lowers because of the experiences you have over your incarnations
mighty light
When did he mention that?
ashen wyvern
when you talk to him in between some msq quests during shb
maiden lake
He didn't mention it, he more or less expressed there was a influence?
red talon
I dont remember him saying that and I read most of his dialogue
mighty light
Yeah can you go find that?
ashen wyvern
they go get the sundered convocation members because there's a sort of trace that stays in the summoners of zodiark
mighty light
(He does say he was Tempered, and the members of the Convocation were, but like. I don't remember anything about a 'lingering influence in the soul.')
ashen wyvern
like "it's better to go get convocation members because our link to zodiark is naturally stronger and engraved in our souls"
brisk quail
Like if you said.
Well you were part of the group who summoned hydalen. So therefore you were tempered. But as soon as the world was sundered the influemce of the primal was split into many beings and therefore weakned. I'd say. Okay that's fair.
ashen wyvern
I wish I still had the screenshot because it's a pain to go find it again but i'll try
mighty light
We weren't involved in summoning Hydaelyn.
brisk quail
Need to pull up the words that say. yo we aren't tempered
mighty light
So there's no evidence to "yes we are reeee" either.
brisk quail
And then. Done.
signal solar
some people argue that we were tempered, and middy boy broke it
brisk quail
Problem solved
red talon
The group leader explicitly states that we didnt help them
ashen wyvern
I'd say zodiark's tempering is there but definitely weakened for sundered convocation members
but sort of still there which makes them better candidates to be re-ascended
pastel coyote
waiiiiit did ishgard resto get an update this patch or was it before ?
maiden lake
Its really weird what our real connection of Hydaelyn is and how the echo really protects us
signal solar
thhey will in 5.41
ashen wyvern
there's an update coming
red talon
Hot take: the convocation shards aren't tempered, but using the crystals restores the tempering too
pastel coyote
well i'm going around the different city-state right now
ashen wyvern
I wonder what sort of relationship we had with venat tbh
since she's hydaelyn's heart
maiden lake
Because its implied anyone with the echo is immune to tempering... But then what about that Sahagin that summoned Levi
ashen wyvern
something might influence our situation with her ? who knows
pastel coyote
and the worst son of the House Fortemps turn out to be decent right now
red talon
he was eaten
wind bough
Ishgard Resto hasn't received any changes in this patch
red talon
soul vore
maiden lodge
Before one claims x is tempered one requires evidence x is tempered.
mighty light
The Echo is just people recovering some of the ancients' power. Elidibus explains that. Even w/o that, though, a bunch of people who are clearly not on Hydaelyn's side have the Echo, including that Sahagin priest who the Ascians taught to body-hop.
maiden lodge
'x is not tempered' is the null hypothesis
mighty light
It's definitely not evidence of tempering.
maiden lake
Yea but so far anyone with the echo has been "protected" from tempering
ashen wyvern
gonna rest a bit now 😂
maiden lake
So now the question is how that protects us
maiden lodge
To show evidence of tempering you need the two parts of tempering: a) primal aether affecting their soul, and b) primal influence affecting the mind.
brisk quail
'x is not tempered' is the null hypothesis
It's more of.
Primals have an area of influence that temper beings nearby
Hydalen is a primal
Therefore anyone who gets near Hydalen gets tempered
mighty light
We weren't near Hydaelyn
maiden lodge
It's more of.
Primals have an area of influence that temper beings nearby
Hyd...
Except, that's not true.
maiden lodge
No one was tempered by Elidibus.
mighty light
Like even ignoring that
urban turret
Hydalyns in the fucking aetheric sea
maiden lodge
And Elidibus was near people and by that strict logic, should have tempered everyone by being near them
mighty light
There are now a few different scenes where we protect people from being tempered by physically getting in the way of tempering beams
brisk quail
We weren't near Hydaelyn
I'm not saying we are I'm just trying to explain a concept jesus christ
urban turret
Unless she can tempered echo people through dreams
mighty light
???????????
maiden lake
That is a question too... Why didn't Elidibus temper anyone?
maiden lodge
I'm not saying we are I'm just trying to explain a concept jesus christ
But the concept is not quite correct.
maiden lake
He could easily done that
maiden lodge
That is a question too... Why didn't Elidibus temper anyone?
Primals can choose not to.
They can choose not to yeet their aether into things
mighty light
Yeah your position is incorrect, and also, why are you even arguing that if you don't think we are?
brisk quail
So then the next question is.
How does the echo protect against tempering?
urban turret
Idk not said yet but it does
maiden lodge
So then the next question is.
How does the echo protect against tempering?
The echo is a power of the ancients (who invented creation magic etc)
maiden lake
I get he can choose not to... But the question is.. Why didn't he just temper the exarch or Beeq lugh
maiden lodge
Now, how it protects is actually described to us by zenos. It's not a protection, it's a battle of wills. The power of the ancients will generally win out over creation magics.
maiden lake
That could easily fucked us hard
urban turret
ALSO HEY I GOT A QUESTION. WHO THE FUCK KIDNAPPED THOSE AMALJ’AA
brisk quail
So if a strong enough primal is in the presence then we can be tempered.
north fulcrum
me
mighty light
FWIW, Tempering specifically affects the soul, and the Echo appears to be a power of the soul. Makes sense that the Echo would allow us to resist Tempering.
brisk quail
That's if they can beat some magic.
maiden lodge
Assuming such a primal exists, and wanted to.
mighty light
So if a strong enough primal is in the presence then we can be tempered.
(That's how Zodiark tempered the people who participated in his summoning)
red talon
The amalj'aa propably walked up to a tower and got "tempered" by it
maiden lake
But... Did they really resist the tempering?
maiden lodge
No primal, so far, has been demonstrated to be that powerful, save Zodiark, and in fact, we've seen the opposite occur with Shinryu, where Zenos demonstrates the battle of wills.
maiden lake
I mean I think they gave into the tempering
urban turret
The amalj'aa propably walked up to a tower and got "tempered" by it
No because they said they were kidnapped by men
loud pecan
what really is the Echo anyway ?
brisk quail
```So if a strong enough primal is in the presence then we can be tempered.```
(...
So the convacation members had the echo is what you're saying?
maiden lodge
The convocation were Ancient, therefore, yes, they have the powers of an Ancient.
mighty light
It's an echo of their power.
maiden lodge
Just as you are a mammal and have the powers of a mammal
brisk quail
Isn't the echo a passing on of a weaker power?
And wouldn't the true power be stronger?
maiden lake
I think the Convaction of 13 just gave into the tempering than really resist it though
maiden lodge
Specifically, the echo is a -fraction- of the power.
brisk quail
Hence the name echo?
mighty light
Yes.
maiden lodge
But it would be silly to say 'Well they didn't have this lesser thing, they had this better, more powerful thing, and therefore, don't have the benefits of the lesser thing.'
brisk quail
So that being said. There are only a handful of beings able to temper one with the (true) power of the ancients.
Mainly the two oldest primals
maiden lodge
So far we are aware of only one.
brisk quail
And lets say our echo is weaker by like. 10%.
Wouldn't that mean there are MORE primals able to temper us?
maiden lodge
Possibly, but no evidence has shown that to be the case.
wind bough
Well, that's not why it's called the Echo but Elidibus notes that it is an apt name for that reason.
maiden lake
We dunno know how the echo even works really... Because Arenvald is said to have a far weaker echo than us apparently
maiden lodge
Our echo's shown to be on the lower end of the 'power scale' to be honest, we don't practice it, we don't train in it, and we've shown no susceptibility.
maiden lake
And he is immune still
loud pecan
Tempering is also heavily tied to the Primal's "personality". Lakshmi and Ifrit seemed more encline to temper ohers than Ramuh or Shiva for example (tho Shiva is a different type of primal)
mighty light
If we're at 70% of the power of the Ancients' Echo, and all Primals are at 10% of Zodiark's original power, we'd still be immune to all Primals.
gaunt star
Zenos and the tempering arc really just show us we don’t fully understand echo or tempering. They may be linked, but they also might have different sources of power.
maiden lake
Yea...
Lots of questions
We don't know really how the echo and tempering intereact aside from "haha you can't temper me"
maiden lodge
But what we do know is that the Echo is tied to the soul, as is tempering.
brisk quail
We don't know really how the echo and tempering intereact aside from "haha you c...
Ha! You got PRANKED
gaunt star
That’s about as linked as driving can get you to Boston or to Miami
brisk quail
You can't temper me you IDIOT
maiden lodge
And if the echo vs primal interaction is a battle of wills, then the ability for a primal to subdue the will (which is as much a part of tempering) would be dampened.
loud pecan
Echo also grants super-abilities. Like seeing the past or the future, speaking every language...
maiden lodge
But the Echo doesn't provide immunity to all aetheric tampering of the soul--as Shadowbringers shows.
brisk quail
Echo also grants super-abilities. Like seeing the past or the future, speaking e...
Bro. We could be making bank as a translator
Where's my millions of gil
maiden lake
Thats also a thing
mighty light
I mean
maiden lake
Did the ancients have the power to see the future a tiny bit?
Or was Mikoto a special case
serene crest
We don't actually speak every language. We innately understand things.
mighty light
Seems pretty common for people in Hydaelyn to be multilingual
loud pecan
Echo and aether don't seem really connected. What allowed us to restore the darkness was the Blessing of Light, which is yet another thing
mighty light
Echo and aether are connected by virtue of the fact that everything in the game world is connected to aether
maiden lodge
Did the ancients have the power to see the future a tiny bit?
Different ancients have different powers on top of the common ones, so they probably had someone who could see the future, or someones, or even have a name for the practice in the same way that they have a name for seeing into the aetherial sea.
wind bough
Mikoto is definitely a special case. How the Echo facilitates future vision is something yet to be explored
mighty light
Because everything in the game world is aether
dim sigil
We couldn't have conveniently have a echo visoon to tell us bozja roe was bad
maiden lodge
If nothing else, Mikoto's ancient past life might have had that power.
wind bough
That would be a logical hypothesis
maiden lodge
In fact, I'd almost claim that to be the most likely case, seeing as she can't have a power of the ancients not from her past ancient life.
mighty light
We do know the Ancients had some special abilities, and prophecies have been a thing in the game since 1.0
loud pecan
By the way, does Ryne have the Echo like Minfilia did ?
red talon
btw, the first short story from Emets view has him turn into his final boss form to help with the phoenix problem, from what I remember, it wasn't considered too weird. Do you remember if it was a rare ability that a few people had or something that came with the seat of Emet Selch?
maiden lake
I don't tink so
loud pecan
I don't think it's really said at one point ?
wind bough
Ryne has never demonstrated any of the abilities we associate with the Echo.
mighty light
Yeah
maiden lake
Ryne only has the super light powers
loud pecan
Mayhaps it explains why she lost control of Shiva when Ysayle didn't
brisk quail
Ryne never had the echo?
mighty light
I mean I think we know she's capable of manifesting it, although at the same time we don't really know what the criteria for manifesting it are
loud pecan
Echo seems to manifest on a bigger scale when the user grows older tho
brisk quail
She was just blessed with Minfillia's blessing/power which is by extension Hydalen's
mighty light
Ysayle heard Shiva whispering at the back of her mind, and also wasn't really trying to control her so much as
Weaponize her
wind bough
Echo seems to manifest on a bigger scale when the user grows older tho
what makes you say that?
loud pecan
Idk, we always encountered "accomplished" adult or scholars to use the Echo
mighty light
(Also, like. I don't think that was the first time Ysayle summoned Shiva?)
wind bough
Unukalhai
maiden lodge
btw, the first short story from Emets view has him turn into his final boss form...
It's just him. That's just a thing Emet can do. It's part of what makes Emet unique and the most gifted in the discpline that got him the seat. Hythlodeaus was better at the seeing but Emet's capabilities went beyond it into more than just sight.
loud pecan
Unukalhai is older than our character, he was a hero with Cylva no ?
wind bough
But he was a child at the time
loud pecan
He had the Echo already ?
wind bough
and he was capable of transcending the physical death of his body.
mighty light
He was also napping on the moon for most of the time between then and now.
The main thing behind all his angst was that he wasn't ready when the world ended.
coral kite
Oh god oh fuck, how many groomers are there in the god damn empire?
maiden lodge
Wirr actually is a counter-example, being a sahagin who just literally sorted out how to do it
mighty light
At least two
gaunt star
Reminder yoshi promised us at fanfest we go to the moon in 6.0
mighty light
Probably a lot more but we've seen at least two
coral kite
😔
wind bough
The inside of the moon should be like one of those magic spacey zones from FFXI
maiden lodge
The main thing behind all his angst was that he wasn't ready when the world ende...
Well that's the excuse he gives. He later decides that it's because those who could, did not band together to try.
wind bough
Promyvion
loud pecan
I mean, does Cylva have the Echo anyway ?
wind bough
Cylva has the Echo.
mighty light
She would not be on the First if she didn't, pretty sure
wind bough
^
maiden lodge
I mean, does Cylva have the Echo anyway ?
Yes, she's a hero with a crystal of light, which requires the echo.
loud pecan
Ardbert did, but we don't know for the others
gaunt star
Spoiler alert, the moon is actually Sabik
wind bough
She also views our memories at some undefined point
wind bough
"The boy, Unukalhai... I have glimpsed him in your memories."
maiden lodge
Ardbert did, but we don't know for the others
They manifested crystals of light, that means yes, we do.
loud pecan
Oh, so I don't know 
mighty light
The Ascians don't have the capacity to transport things physically across the rift
maiden lodge
Also Branden was described as having echo powers directly.
wind bough
They also transcended the physical death of their bodies and came to the Source as Echo-ghosts via Crystals of Light as media.
mighty light
Yep
maiden lodge
And manifesting crystals of light is an echo power.
mighty light
You can't ditch your body and grab a new one w/o the Echo as far as we know, unless you're a Voidsent, apparently.
maiden lodge
Or at least, something only Echo-havers can do
wind bough
And manifesting crystals of light *is* an echo power.
^
mighty light
(Actually you could theoretically use the Void to travel between shards but like
lmao)
loud pecan
Tho Scions were able to manifest a body with only aether no ?
mighty light
(Good fucking luck)
maiden lodge
Tho Scions were able to manifest a body with only aether no ?
The Scions did not travel willingly, and in that case, that's a new thing that G'raha Tia was fucking up.
loud pecan
Which still opens the possibility to manifest in another realm, even for a shorter time ?
mighty light
What G'raha was doing with the CT was something that Emet did not know was possible
wind bough
They were extracted from their bodies and kept their forms because vague G'raha magicks ¯_(ツ)_/¯
half phoenix
Ah cool, E12 phase 3 is Gaia
maiden lodge
Which still opens the possibility to manifest in another realm, even for a short...
It does, but undoing it seems to be the problem.
loud pecan
Ah cool, E12 phase 3 is Gaia
so was E2, what's the big deal
wind bough
However in Team Ardbert's case it's because they went the traditional way via Crystals of Light.
maiden lodge
Honestly, the Beacon technique is probably the better bet
wary perch
Finally ulhuakai is evicted from rising stone and left to rot in the first lol
gaunt star
I’m just waiting for one of these grand experiments (traveling across the rift, tempering) to fail catastrophically. They could’ve already failed and we don’t know just how yet.
wind bough
Team Ardbert killed themselves and their Echo souls persisted after physical death.
wary perch
Unless she expand on the void quest lol
wind bough
This is an Echo power.
wary perch
That's in the past
fickle pumice
So for E11N is the thunder DoT literally just a "you need to heal through this" type of thing because the damage you take from it feels massive for a haeler
maiden lodge
So for E11N is the thunder DoT literally just a "you need to heal through this" ...
Yep.
#Dealwithit
wary perch
Now we can use wol to ferry people across shards using the memory and soul transfer method
fickle pumice
I hate my life then q-q
loud pecan
yep, that's why you love TBN
gaunt star
Pld can’t even cover that dot
maiden lodge
'We want to be more active in our healing and be healers!' mechanic that involves powerhealing a dps 'FUCK THIS MECHANIC REEEE'
wary perch
It's funny when you read the soul device that contain ulhuakai's soul
wind bough
!item unukalhai's spirit vessel
lusty shadowBOT
fickle pumice
Depending on the ticks you cant even heal through it though because of the next raid AoE depending on if its casts as the first mechanic or the second
wind bough
doesn't do key items huh
gaunt star
Big oof
wind bough
Best not tell anyone else about this, lest you suddenly find yourself everyone's first choice in inter-world ferry services.
fickle pumice
Or maybe its just because my co-healers never helped me heal through it x:
maiden lodge
Depending on the ticks you cant even heal through it though because of the next...
It's probably a lack of healing/mitigation.
gaunt star
As a healer, you should be accustomed to being paired with useless co-healer
loud pecan
Or maybe its just because my co-healers never helped me heal through it x:
mayhaps, when I did it as a DRK we had TBN for dots and heavy heals to mitigate it, the healer never dropped lower than 50% hp with the dot ksks
brisk quail
'We want to be more active in our healing and be healers!' *mechanic that invol...
Imagine having content that makes you heal.
Me (a PLD): OOOHHHH YEAAAH
Whm, Sch, Ast: HEALING BAD
fickle pumice
As a healer, you should be accustomed to being paired with useless co-healer
I am but for some reason I expected something q-q
brisk quail
When PLD Medica
mighty light
Me (a BLM): Helpless confused shrieking
gaunt star
No joke, I know I’m in for a beautiful mess when I go for clemency on pld
brisk quail
I need medica for pld please
loud pecan
Me (a BLM): *Helpless confused shrieking*
you're not a true BLM if you weren't the one applying the dot on the healer as punishment eheh
brisk quail
I wanna be the best healer
fickle pumice
How'd you handle E9 as blm lol
mighty light
you're not a true BLM if you weren't the one applying the dot on the healer as p...
Extremely fair
loud pecan
I need medica for pld please
medica 2 pls
mighty light
@fickle pumice Triple-cast
loud pecan
How'd you handle E9 as blm lol
seems easy to me, like you handled E4S
mighty light
It's honestly nowhere near as bad as E10
You just learn how long you can stand on each block before they collapse and time it.
loud pecan
you just have to switch 1s to another platform for the precedent to reset. At least, in normal ksks
fickle pumice
ImToScaredToHealSavage
loud pecan
That's when I switched for tank
serene crest
I’m just waiting for one of these grand experiments (traveling across the rift, ...
Caster role quest is that exact thing. Taynor gets stuck between worlds early in his life and is Nyelbert's entire motivation until he met Ardbert and friends.
maiden lodge
How'd you handle E9 as blm lol
mighty light
@gaunt star Crystal Braves
wind bough
So speaking of which
brisk quail
I need a PLD medica and medica 2
turbid helm
I didn't have much trouble with E10. E11 on the other hand...
loud pecan
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/37dq84/caster_stutter_stepping_tutorial/
can't see it, don't know fdor others
wind bough
What do you guys think is going on between Unukalhai and Taynor
mighty light
E12 was fine once I learned the patterns
wind bough
I mean apart from them falling in love
mighty light
IDK, might be Nyelbert's shard
turbid helm
You wanna be the best, like no one ever was?
wind bough
I assume it's some soul shard stuff going on because that's the hotness at the moment in the story
fickle pumice
Im assuming the video is meant to be slide casting which I learned to do without realizing when I first started playing
maiden lodge
tl;dr: stand at the boundry between your two squares, and stutter step from one to the next in the last 0.5 sec of your cast to reset the square.
urban turret
It’s pretty heavy handedly implied unu is Nyel’s shard
serene crest
I wanna be the best healer
Like no one ever was?
wind bough
So is Unukalhai Nyelbert's shard in an astounding coincidence? Or another shard of Taynor?
mighty light
IDK
gaunt star
Caster role quest is that exact thing. Taynor gets stuck between worlds early in...
Nah, I mean one of our experiments as scions failing.
maiden lodge
I just assume it's Unkalhai found a play date
mighty light
@gaunt star Crystal Braves
maiden lodge
Cause the boy's been lonely
brisk quail
@serene crest @turbid helm yes.
fickle pumice
Why do people still look down on AST .-. I've healed better than most SCH and I'm not even a hardcore player
gaunt star
We’re getting in too deep; there’s going to be blowback
urban turret
I think it’s less coincedence and more “people who are wols in one world are likely to be the same in another”
mighty light
@maiden lodge Taynor mentions that Unu's aether is familiar.
loud pecan
AST is OP since card give MP
turbid helm
The raid story felt like it was cut short. I guess we'll get another quest in 5.5?
dim sigil
i think it was ast was really bad at shb launch
fickle pumice
I still miss being able to rapid fire 3 Lady/Lords
wind bough
Yeah, extremely familiar, like they've done this a lot before and like Unu is an old friend
maiden lodge
Why do people still look down on AST .-. I've healed better than most SCH and I'...
Players look down on AST if they don't pay attention to patch notes or performance for the past year... ever.
loud pecan
Bcs AST is a better-yet-more-difficult-to-play whm
maiden lodge
People who have any recent knowledge dating from... well... 5.05 to be honest... know better.
turbid helm
I've never hated healing as much as I do in FFXIV.
mighty light
When people BM healers at all right now it seeeeems like it's mostly SCH?
fickle pumice
It took me until ShB to realize how much better Dirunal is than Noct tho lol
mighty light
(Not sure it's justified in that case either I'm just reporting on what I've seen)
brisk quail
Noct is garbo ngl
gaunt star
Crystal braves was a political failure that should be seen as foreshadowing for a much bigger boo-boo at the meta level :V
maiden lodge
Regen is a better healing set up for dungeons than shields, obv, but it doesn't matter that much
brisk quail
It's not even a decent replacment for SCH shields.
Meanwhile Dirunal is GREAT or even better than WHM honestly
loud pecan
At least, regens are cumulative
gaunt star
For example, graha made a mistake so someone snaps and everyone that crossed the rift in a vessel is gone. Bonus, no more yshtola
loud pecan
really wish they one day change the nocturnal priority on shields
maiden lodge
Honestly, shields shouldn't stack.
gaunt star
Then again, yshtola tries to die every other patch and yoshi won’t let her
loud pecan
Shields shouldn't stack, it would cheese so many mechanics
maiden lodge
Because cast spells aren't a thing you should rely on
fickle pumice
Good yshtola best catgirl
serene crest
Tbf Calling almost all of the Scions except us was G'raha screwing up repeatedly.
loud pecan
But the actual state of shield is.. Tricky ?
maiden lodge
Shields are a situational tool, and for those situations Noct Ast can stack multiple shields at once, with a damage debuff.
fickle pumice
Shields shouldn't stack, it would cheese so many mechanics
Neutral Sect shields stack with others so
gaunt star
I’m excited to see what happens when graha loses his admin access
mighty light
It'll happen the same time Y'shtola dies from her aether expenditure
loud pecan
Neutral Sect shields stack with others so
so does seraphine's shields
maiden lodge
Where as in terms of aoe shielding, a scholar can stack consolation with a spreadlo and....?
onyx sundial
Hi
fickle pumice
so does seraphine's shields
I thought you meant league seraphine for a sec loool
loud pecan
But i think the "castable" shields sholdn't have this prioity sytem. A 500 noctunral shouldn't overwrite a 2500 i-dont-know-the-name sch shield
maiden lodge
And the thing is, that shield is for specific kinds of raidwide mechanics. You don't want to be casting spells unnecessarily anyways.
maiden lodge
But i think the "castable" shields sholdn't have this prioity sytem. A 500 noctu...
You shouldn't be running two shield healers anyways. Like, tactically, it makes no sense
mighty light
Yeah
marsh osprey
because thats grieving
mighty light
We all have choices to make
onyx sundial
You only really shield during neutral sect as ast with sch
fickle pumice
AST shields are better than sch imo
loud pecan
I'm not saying you should run double shield, I'm saying this system is dumb eoe
fickle pumice
but not worth the mp
marsh osprey
yes but ast cancels scholars shields
mighty light
AST shields are objectively worse than SCH shields though
marsh osprey
which scholar likes to use
maiden lodge
Like, why are you in a position where you're overwriting adlos, when you shouldn't even be doing that much shielding -as a scholar-
maiden lodge
AST shields are objectively worse than SCH shields though
Doesn't matter though, the baseline is 'Is this enough to survive the raidwide?' If yes, it's good enough. If no, it's not.
mighty light
Yeah I'm responding to Faine
marsh osprey
with a whm you can go for shields or regen stance but with a scholar you go for the regen stance
mighty light
The people who get angry when people bring AST or SCH to raid are dumb
maiden lodge
with a whm you can go for shields or regen stance but with a scholar you go for ...
Unless you're doing content where shields matter. Then you go Shields, because that's a tool you need to use.
vagrant sinew
shields are only really helpful for prog
loud pecan
everyone should run 2 whm for the bid dick dps anyway 
gaunt star
Shb scholar is a pale imitation of the majesty of stormblood sch; i mourn their loss
marsh osprey
u can clear without shields but they are helpful
maiden lodge
ever
There's literally AoEs that do more damage than your hp maximums, last tier so they do, in fact, matter.
(unless you're fed gear)
vagrant sinew
mitigation btw
loud pecan
u can clear without shields but they are helpful
cries in Diamond Frost E8S
brisk quail
AST shields are just bad compared to SCH shields. Meanwhile the regen is practically the SAME
ashen violet
tbh graha feels kind of... overpowered atm in the plot. which is good because otherwise we'd be standing around going oh no! what shall we do but. hopefully character development takes him away from half-OP half-nerd kind of thing atm
loud pecan
which litterlay requires 2 10% mitigation + a shield
brisk quail
That's the issue
marsh osprey
yeah fuck diamond frost
mighty light
So shields don't matter ever because
Other damage mitigation also exists
maiden lodge
And look
mighty light
Some of which is shields
loud pecan
to even "survive" the mechanic
maiden lodge
AST isn't gonna get buffed
brisk quail
When the regen stance is basically the same but the shields come nowhere close
coral kite
fuck goin on in here? 👀
loud pecan
SCH/AST isn't an easy duo to run. But ti's the most potent
mighty light
tbh graha feels kind of... overpowered atm in the plot. which is good because ot...
The only way he's OP right now is that he has free access to Alagan tech, and that's only situationally useful right now
marsh osprey
also sch ast have better uptime than whm
maiden lodge
SCH/AST isn't an easy duo to run. But ti's the most potent
ehhhhh... they're pretty close actually, neck and neck.
Were, anyways
fickle pumice
Im curious to know if Graha still has memories of the future since he's combvined with his future self
marsh osprey
whm is like a lv 50 blackmage
loud pecan
I mean they aren't as easy to play as WHM
fickle pumice
I should probably continue MSQ lol
mighty light
It's not our future anymore
mighty light
Things have changed so completely that his knowledge of it isn't really relevant anymore
viscid monolith
He has his memories of everything that happened
loud pecan
I'm not saying WHM is easy, I'm saying its easier
maiden lodge
Whichever pair is considered better is based on how people who don't grok statistics see won the parse lottery that week
ashen violet
The only way he's OP right now is that he has free access to Alagan tech, and th...
That is fair and i do appreciate how it's been pushing the plot along nicely, but again hopefully he'll be able to develop out of the whole idol worship shtick he's been showing. it'd eventually get annoying for some, I feel
gaunt star
Graha is going to be less useful moving forward and will be more of an exposition dump since we’re starting to look into things the Asians didn’t know probably
marsh osprey
all healers are of simliar difficulty
fickle pumice
Also as someone whos mnk is still lvl 55 are the changes gooooooodbaaaaad?
loud pecan
He has his memories of everything that happened
he has the memories of the exarch who had the memories of doomed-future graha
viscid monolith
Yes
marsh osprey
whm moves like a lv 50 blackmage without dash
mighty light
It's already annoying to me
marsh osprey
thats why hes difficult
viscid monolith
Monk changes are good
loud pecan
✨ time travel bois ✨
marsh osprey
ast has high apm and buff management
viscid monolith
Graha is already annoying
loud pecan
i hate graha tbh
marsh osprey
sch well scholar isnt great at anything
mighty light
I like G'raha but the fact that they're clearly shipping him with us is frustrating
marsh osprey
but ultra mobile
loud pecan
I like G'raha but the fact that they're clearly shipping him with us is frustrat...
I still hope we will be with Haurchefant. One day...
gaunt star
Maybe they failed graha’s survival at the end of shb only to kill him off at the end of shb patches. I’d giggle.
fickle pumice
Every hero needs a love interest
mighty light
Fight me
brisk quail
You may dislike him but I love catboi. He is cute. I wanna hug. I wanna snug.
viscid monolith
Not in this gane
worn forge
if you genuinely think any shipping is going on, get some fresh air
loud pecan
don't impose my love interest please
mighty light
Wh
loud pecan
I don't like what they're doing of him more than i'm not loving him. It's like this fan who follows you, but he can be so much more
gaunt star
Urianger is the hottest boy
fickle pumice
no
mighty light
Marie, in the last MSQ, which option did you select
loud pecan
Urianger is the hottest boy
it's also the one who trciked us with Team Ardbert in HW.... And in ShB... And surely an other time
worn forge
there’s several option opportunities 
fickle pumice
Im kinda sad that none of the music for this eden set is a hype as the rest :L
brisk quail
it's also the one who trciked us with Team Ardbert in HW.... And in ShB... And s...
HW, ShB, Whatever the next expac is...
mighty light
In the last dialogue section, when you're talking to G'raha and he's complaining, and one of the options is a joke like "are you not enjoying our adventure?"
gaunt star
it's also the one who trciked us with Team Ardbert in HW.... And in ShB... And s...
That’s why I like him. He knows too much. Last boss confirmed.
brisk quail
Im kinda sad that none of the music for this eden set is a hype as the rest :L
||Except the extreme||
loud pecan
HW, ShB, Whatever the next expac is...
we made him promise to not trick us again at some point
worn forge
I picked the other one
worn forge
we made him promise to not trick us again at some point
and then he promptly held the secret of gaia from us
literally a cutscene later
brisk quail
That song bops
ashen violet
I still think it's more idol worship than outright shipping but again. bound to be annoying if it keeps up. He has his own field of expertise and has an Archon's mark, one would think he'd be more assertive about what he knows
fickle pumice
||Except the extreme||
|| FUCK NOW I HAVE TO DO SAVAGE THIS TIER ||
loud pecan
In the last dialogue section, when you're talking to G'raha and he's complaining...
I did, bcs i'm an ironic bitch who wants to firendzone him and remind him that I friendzone him everytime I can
mighty light
A long future, mind, whatever the Telophoroi might hope. We'll stop them, won't we. Together.```||the extreme is such a bop. But fuck 12 is gonna be hell and a half||
loud pecan
||*the extreme* is such a bop. But fuck 12 is gonna be hell and a half||
cries in BLM
brisk quail
I haven't even seen it.. but fuck it's gonna be bad just thinking about it.
viscid monolith
Why
worn forge
Graha went through a roughly similar situation Mitron did, obsessing over someone for a hundred years
pine epoch
worn forge
it makes sense that he’d want to be fast friends with you
fickle pumice
||*the extreme* is such a bop. But fuck 12 is gonna be hell and a half||
|| I haven't done any of the savages, or an extreme trial since titania so 😄 ||
gaunt star
Speaking of mysteries the ascians couldn’t solve, the heart of sabik is the og unsolvable mystery
loud pecan
Speaking of mysteries the ascians couldn’t solve, the heart of sabik is the og u...
or so said lahabrea
fickle pumice
wait this is the spoilers section why the heck am i hiding my text
mighty light
it makes sense that he’d want to be fast friends with you
Generally when people are talking about "writing a long future, together" it's not as friends
fickle pumice
rip i dont have the ilvl for savage yet
loud pecan
I've learned not to trust everything the story/the characters tell us in FF14
gaunt star
or so said lahabrea
He’s pretty qualified to say unsolvable then
mighty light
Like
I don't want it to be romantic either, esp. not if it's something we have no choice in, but it is kind of suggestive, and I have a hard time believing it's not deliberate.
viscid monolith
Read it how you want. They aren't shipping.
loud pecan
He’s pretty qualified to say unsolvable then
we found a cure to tempered, we could've tried to free them from Zodiark's desire
worn forge
the process of untempering is exhausting, there’s little to no chance Alisaie or us have the energy to waver the tempering of ascians
mighty light
That does seem like a dragon
loud pecan
✨ diamond dragon ✨
mighty light
@worn forge So make BLM job storyline mandatory
Clearly the only solution
gaunt star
we found a cure to tempered, we could've tried to free them from Zodiark's desir...
They might’ve had reasons for not solving tempering; I’m just waiting for the pendulum to swing back
loud pecan
I don't know tho
pine epoch
One winged dragon 5.5 diamond weapon. Wyrms tail + one winged angel remix
loud pecan
We'll see, but it indeed felt easy
gaunt star
Way too easy, like the addition of the pig screams “don’t take this seriously”
mighty light
What
fickle pumice
we found a cure to tempered, we could've tried to free them from Zodiark's desir...
but are we sure they're tempered by zodiark?
worn forge
they say in the node that the cost for discovering the solution was too high
loud pecan
but are we sure they're tempered by zodiark?
they told us, and I don't see a reason why they shoudl'nt
worn forge
and that the subjects and many colleagues died
tropic frigate
that pic is a cosplay of zenos
mighty light
They didn't discover a solution
fickle pumice
So doesnt that mean we're tempered by Hydaelyn
brisk quail
Even in the fucking art its a dragon
mighty light
They didn't even try
loud pecan
All the precedent summoners for primals were tempered
gaunt star
Ali should take her bad art back to etsy
mighty light
They only studied the mechanisms of Tempering
brisk quail
In game in figures
fickle pumice
I havent started MSQ but this info is stuff I already guessed x:
brisk quail
In everything the topper is a dragon
loud pecan
So doesnt that mean we're tempered by Hydaelyn
that's the big deal with the Echo too
mighty light
When Owen applied for funding to investigate a solution Ammon was like "nah bro"
He didn't give a reason
wind bough
the process of untempering is exhausting, there’s little to no chance Alisaie or...
idk man, untempering the extremely-hyper-tempered leader of one of the beast tribes that's been summoning for the longest just took aether from four people
loud pecan
Could Hydaelyn be a "good" primal like Ramuh was ?
wind bough
and it exhausted them enough that they needed a lunch break and a nap
mighty light
And I want to point out again, none of them were doing the BLM/WHM thing
fickle pumice
Could Hydaelyn be a "good" primal like Ramuh was ?
Yeah but he still influenced the Sylphs to some degree
Same with Hydaelyn, also these are all things I've been saying since fucking 3.0 LOL
worn forge
let’s just bind a being that can transform into smoke and then shoot rationality beams at him
this seems like a fantastic plan 
loud pecan
Hydaelyn was created to protect life, so was Ramuh
fickle pumice
let’s just bind a being that can transform into smoke and then shoot rationality...
I mean didnt we do that with Emet just rather it being rationality it was death
mighty light
Hydaelyn's been sitting as far away from people as she can get for the last several thousand years in her defence
loud pecan
Yet, Hadaleyn being one of the oldest primal, shouldn't aether be depleted or lacking in all worlds ?
mighty light
She is aether-depleted
viscid monolith
She isn't taking in any aether
fickle pumice
Thats why we lost the echo in SB x:
mighty light
Saving us at the end of ARR was the last major thing she could do
loud pecan
Oh right
mighty light
We didn't lose the Echo
viscid monolith
She's getting weaker
wind bough
We did not lose the Echo at any point
mighty light
The Echo isn't from Hydaelyn
mighty light
The Echo has nothing to do with Hydaelyn
wind bough
We've been out of contact (Hydaelyn is too weak to speak) since after the Praetorium
loud pecan
We never really spoke with Hydaelyn after the Sultana's death
worn forge
The echo is just awoken potential from the ancients, anyone that isn’t a Garlean can have the chance for their powers to awaken
fickle pumice
We did though thats why Midgardsormr came with us, he was doing the job he promised hydaelyn to protect us iirc
worn forge
I think
fickle pumice
or just as Hydaelyns servant
mighty light
We 'lost' the blessing of light in 2.X, but we built it back up afterwards.
worn forge
speaking of, did they ever explain why garleans are magic stupid
loud pecan
The echo is just awoken potential from the ancients, anyone that isn’t a Garlean...
which raises the question of Resonnant
wind bough
we've spoken to Her by visiting Her directly twice. She had to speak through Minfilia as a vessel on these occasions.
viscid monolith
Midgarsormr cut off our blessing to test us. Hydaelyn didn't tell him to do that
Midgardsormr was just being a dick
mighty light
My god Marie you can't just ask somebody why they're magic stupid
wind bough
We did though thats why Midgardsormr came with us, he was doing the job he promi...
The Blessing of Light is not the Echo. We have never lost the Echo.
loud pecan
speaking of, did they ever explain why garleans are magic stupid
aren't garleans emet slech's "toys" ?
fickle pumice
speaking of, did they ever explain why garleans are magic stupid
No just like why htey wont explain why they called it Fire 2 instead of Firaga
wind bough
Midgardsormr cut off our Blessing of Light to spare Hydaelyn the energy and to test whether we were capable of doing things without divine assistance.
worn forge
No just like why htey wont explain why they called it Fire 2 instead of Firaga
a book does that
viscid monolith
And Midgardsormr's action indirectly lead to Moenbryda's death but we'll never call him out on it.
mighty light
As far as we know Emet-Selch hasn't modified Garleans in any way.
loud pecan
And Midgardsormr's action indirectly lead to Moenbryda's death but we'll never c...
I wont because he saved us in Omega
worn forge
the book in Gubal says “this is stupid, we’re going with numbers instead”
fickle pumice
the book in Gubal says “this is stupid, we’re going with numbers instead”
Wait acutally
worn forge
yes actually 😂
fickle pumice
But Firaga sounds cooler >:
urban turret
yeah like legit
loud pecan
firagaja
urban turret
they were like "no. this is dumb"
mighty light
(And since the Ampadori were working it out then obviously the Mhachi figured it out much earlier)
loud pecan
blizzagaraja
fickle pumice
Also makes it a lot clearer that its NOT an upgrade to Fire 1/Blizz 1
fickle pumice
Not something you should use regularly unless its a group of 3+
mighty light
Fire III and Fire IV especially are upgrades.
loud pecan
thundaragajada
fickle pumice
When I was a sprout I thought fire 2 was the upgraded version of fire 1 so I would use that on single targets and oof
mighty light
Okay but the tooltip exists
urban turret
i think that's more a "not reading" problem yeah
loud pecan
When I was a sprout I thought fire 2 was the upgraded version of fire 1 so I wou...
so that's why WHM are using Cure 3 to heal tanks...............
mighty light
Also don't they tell you about AoEs during the quests?
mighty light
(The bigger problem is that once you unlock Flare there's no reason to use Fire 2 ever again)
loud pecan
i'm talking about tank in 4 man dungeon like aurum val
fickle pumice
FIre 2 isn't a quest spell tho
loud pecan
(The bigger problem is that once you unlock Flare there's no reason to use Fire ...
once you're 68, bcs before 3 fire 2 are still more potent
mighty light
I don't think that's the case
loud pecan
mainly bcs doing a flare forces you to use transpose and wait for a mana tick which, for an unkown reason, always seems 3s long when you most need it
mighty light
Guides I've read have all said "Freeze-Fire III-Flare-transpose-Freeze"
loud pecan
Well I don't know and it's 3am, but if you still have it or the math behind it I would be glad to see it :)
mighty light
Looking for a DPS calculator now
loud pecan
that's what said in the balance guide
crimson crag
||https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/680440051762593845/786398367429033984/SPOILER_unknown.png|| eden spoiler, this work
mighty light
(Anything w/ Gaia in it will work, yep.)
open verge
This MSq was MIIIIIIIIIID
I know it’s a 5.4 patch story so it was gonna be more setup then anything but
I wanted to see zenos
dim sigil
we did tho
gaunt star
5.4 has an awful start with lyse bursting and being all HAI WELCOME BAK IM LYSE
open verge
I liked that part
gaunt star
And then she leaves and you never see her again; I like that part
dim sigil
I like stuffy meeting
gaunt star
She’s at her strongest when she’s acting offscreen
ashen violet
a realm reborn reborn
dim sigil
I hesitate to even call this shadowbringers it feels more like the startup 6.0
open verge
Yea shb is done
ashen violet
it's still good that they're wrapping up smaller plotlines
ashen violet
.4 and .5 patches are usually setup for the next expansion, no?
open verge
Happy it was in this patch
They are
I like fandaniel and his motivation
I thought that was fucking sick
Guy just wants to die because he’s been living forever
loud pecan
"i'm the big bad guy i want to kill you"
ashen violet
then ye! the pacing and plot is kind of eh but it's a necessary evil, to exaggerate it a little
gaunt star
That stuff is often solved at the end of .5 though
dim sigil
Like it might technically be part of shadowbringers but I really don't count it as such
gaunt star
The bigger bad guy will show up later
gaunt star
Zenos has a senpai; we just haven’t met him
open verge
Like the villains are just destructive
None of this sob story shit
They just want to fuck shit up
bold condor
I just enjoy the variety of motivation. I still like Emet-Selch but I can vibe with Zenos being the mask-off representation of everything Emet-Selch did as Solus zos Galvus.
loud pecan
i feel like fandaniel's flaw is that it came after very-emotionnal "villains" like emet-selch and eldiibus
bold condor
And Fandaniel as the mask-off representation of what the Ascians spent the last 12,000 years doing.
loud pecan
- i don't really like bitchy villain bcs I know that's what I would be
bold condor
See, the thing about Emet-Selch and Elidibus is that while their backstories are sad they literally have body counts higher than actual super villains.
bold condor
And created several, SEVERAL horrifically bad systems with the intent of hurting as many people as possible.
None of which they show much remorse for, some of which they actively enjoyed.
open verge
It also follows with all the ascians going mental for being alive for so long
I love fandaniels motivation lmfao
bold condor
Emet-Selch is so literally responsible for Zenos he's not only his great-grandfather but Fandaniel surmises he's the one who gave him dreams of a literal apocalypse when he was still a child.
loud pecan
just ask me to kill you, don't destory the flowers tho
bold condor
Not to mention Elidibus referring to Zenos as a "test subject" of Varis.
These people had motivations but they worship death.
Fandaniel is just the logical conclusion of where worshipping death leads.
gaunt star
My issue with comically evil villains is we have two in a single patch now
bold condor
And Zenos is the logical conclusion of a system created specifically to treat loss of life as acceptable so long as it suits personal needs.
gaunt star
Burn out the bad yay
bold condor
See, that's the thing about Valens, he actually supports this point.
Valens is not a superman.
Valens is not an ancient asshole.
Valens is a Garlean Empire legatus operating as Emet-Selch intended.
Gaius is the exception to the rule. Valens is the expectation of the system.
lunar hound
that depressing feeling when you realize that all but two of Gaius' wards have died by your hand 😢
open verge
Mitron the groomer
bold condor
Valens's horrible butchery is normal.
open verge
bold condor
That's normal in the Garlemald built by Emet-Selch.
open verge
It makes sense valens is horribly racist tbh
ashen violet
That's *normal* in the Garlemald built by Emet-Selch.
Makes me wonder the proportions of the intended and exceptions tbh
bold condor
They spend a lot of time looking at him.
I half-expected him to do something, anything.
But, no, he's a pureblood Garlean, his legatus is making children torture conscripts, and he just does his desk work.
Like a good soldier.
They worship death.
loud pecan
Varlens just has children to compare to Gaius
bold condor
Actually, know what? I take it back.
Glory to Garlemald is the most horrific thing someone could be tempered to right now.
lunar hound
right?!
loud pecan
That's all, he's obsessed by Gaius and wants to out do him in any way. Probably the only reasons he's so "evil garlmeald"
bold condor
Hydaelyn and Zodiark at least represent hope for salvation.
Garlemald represents destruction and abuse.
And, Hideru, did you like
Do the additional quest?
Because they make it clear (and Allie also states this) that this is what it's like for conscripts without a "good legatus" like Gaius protecting them.
If your system is so fundamentally broken that abuse is normal unless someone in the highest position takes notice of you, your system deserves to die.
lunar hound
and if the general citizenry of Garlemald have also bought into it...
dim sigil
I don't think it's necessarily broken it's probably working as intended
bold condor
Even Fordola, who dodged at least some of this because of her parents' citizenship, spent her nineteen-year-old life suffering.
And was brought up in a system that taught her that killing is rewarded with freedom.
The girl is younger than Lyse and she's probably taken more lives than Raubahn, and it's not because she's a bad person but because that's what Garlemald taught her would help her people be treated as people.
brisk quail
But that's more of a Power Corrupts issue as well.
bold condor
No it's not.
brisk quail
Not just Racism sucks
bold condor
Solus zos Galvus was not corrupted by power.
loud pecan
It's more about fear than wanting of freedom
bold condor
And he'd be glad to tell you that most of the people he manipulated did what they did of their own accord.
novel furnace
I can finally unmute this channel
lunar hound
the depressing thing is that it's a lie, and I think the conscripts know it's a lie on some level, but they don't have any better options
bold condor
Mhm.
Everyone's got their reasons, some better than others. Valens wants revenge and hates Gaius, but that's the kind of ambition Garlemald rewards.
Well, unless you happen to be the friend or relative of someone in power, of course.
Zenos should never be allowed to look after a goldfish let alone a legion.
loud pecan
It's not about she was "taught" the garlemald way, she was taught the punishment for not following orders. We can see it on the conscripts