retired-patch-6-3-discussion

[maiden lodge]

Cylva didn't get off scott free, though

[mighty light]

Gaia died
The 'new' Gaia is a completely different person who happens to possess the same soul
She didn't get off free

[maiden lodge]

And Cylva's got better things to do

[austere bear]

lets go to the void with Cylva and Ukelele

[mighty light]

Mitron be like "after one hundred years I'm finally free! time to conquer earth"

[austere bear]

screw Fandaniel

[foggy coyote]

I think I'd put Eden and the ending to Omega to as my favs of the raid storylines.

And Alex as my least fav.

[subtle pasture]

So the Sin Eaters' instinctual drive to banish all traces of Darkness is derived from Eden, who absorbed it from being an entity warped by Ardbert's Blade of Light, right?

[maiden lodge]

Urianger! We need teenagers with attitude!

[amber loom]

I've taken on bahamut Alone I'll do so again!

[mighty light]

Omega had a lot of strong narrative content in its quests, especially between fights. Its main problem was that the fights themselves, up to O10, didn't really matter to that narrative.

[maiden lodge]

Pretty much. It's a huge corruption of Ardbert's need to vanquish evil.

[austere bear]

omega was just huge fanservice

[maiden lodge]

Which is a complaint true of all the raids until Nael, or Quickthinx showed up

[subtle pasture]

So they're not quite the Light equivalent to Voidsent, are they, huh

[maiden lodge]

Omega was fanservice, but that's actually more than Alexander 'Here's another goblin/robot'

[subtle pasture]

Near enough, yes, but... well, prob just bc we can trace a specific root to their existence

[maiden lodge]

(Also Alexander had fanservice as well, of a different sort)

[austere bear]

yea, coil had lots of variety

[maiden lodge]

It had variety but no cohesion

[subtle pasture]

also, Dis, was it you who said there's no way Cloud could have been a Heritor of Darkness,

[foggy coyote]

I fully acknowledge that Omega was basically "Please Clap: The Raid". But I did like the actual story for it inbetween all the "lol remember when we did this thing once?" tournament arc stuff.

[subtle pasture]

it was no Heritor, yes, but was invoked for the same purpose as one

[maiden lodge]

Yeah, I eat crow on that one.

[amber loom]

Hell I took on Bahamut Without my paladin job stone

[maiden lodge]

Cause my reasoning was that they had no reason to want to summon Darkness, nor capability. Turns out the story addressed both by inventing a reason, and also, acknowledging why it's difficult to bring forth Darkness.

[subtle pasture]

That said, my one story-based gripe for Promise will be, where the hell are the arenas

[bold condor]

Back.

[maiden lodge]

The Core.

[mighty light]

The reason they invented was kind of dumb though

[austere bear]

idk how lunar bahamut even hit the WoL.

[severe brook]

I don't think the Cloud was fought in the Core, was it?
The others do seem to be though.

[amber loom]

Flare Breath

[foggy coyote]

That's... actually kind of fun to think about. Was each arena in like... Eden's tummy pocketspace?

[mighty light]

E9 doesn't really need to exist, narratively; it's basically the Chaos of T3 Eden

[austere bear]

oh i get it. its a cleave so it doesnt markers >>

[maiden lodge]

There wasn't a place they could draw darkness from, so instead, they drew it from Gaia and the Warrior of Light.

[bold condor]

Uh, without E9, Mitron literally cannot manifest.

[subtle pasture]

Apparently E10 was still Laxan Loft, Ryne mentions she can prob find enough control over Eden to navigate us to the battlefield, Mitron must have made an Amaurot-esque shade over the Loft

[bold condor]

Like, he literally only regained his sense of self upon the release of Darkness into the Empty.

[maiden lodge]

The other arenas are locations on the First.

[mighty light]

Yeah that's how they explained it in the story but is there any reason that they'd established before that point that he couldn't

[foggy coyote]

I'm still trying to figure out why they all ran towards Lunar Bahamut.

[dim sigil]

He was so non-threatening it's like we probably should have let him know we killed the un sundered already

[bold condor]

What do you mean? He was literally introduced as Eden's original self in that same scene.

[severe brook]

yeah, it was that line there that made me think it was outside

[subtle pasture]

Bygone Gaol and Garden of Nowhere do still feel like illusions cast over the Core, of course, so that leaves the Sphere of Naught as a ???

[bold condor]

The mechanics for his release are, by necessity, not something that would have been discussed before then.

[mighty light]

That's more or less my point
E9 doesn't matter because if you say "feeding non-Umbral aether to Eden woke him up" nothing changes

[bold condor]

What do you mean? The Empty was regressing.

[mighty light]

Yes, which is something we only knew after arriving there at the beginning of Eden's Promise

[austere bear]

im calling it. zenos new sword will be ultima weapon

[bold condor]

So Gaia and Ryne did what we literally spent the last 6/8 parts doing.

[subtle pasture]

Mitron manipulated Gaia to invoke a powerful voidsent summoning bc it'd release what remained of his bindings inside Eden,

[maiden lodge]

Well, no it's more 'Eden's now blocking aether again and we don't know why and we need to kickstart it again' which actually introduces the conflict of the third tier.

It's not a result of previous events, but it's narratively relevant because it's the cause of new events.

[unreal hound]

did emerald weapon normal as the only tank

[severe brook]

i'm half expecting him to end up with a Garlean Magitek equivalent to Garland's sword in Dissidia, a weird transforming thing that shifts between multiple forms

[mighty light]

Y'all are explaining the reasons it happened in-universe
I'm aware what they are
But what actually changes if they just say "Mitron woke up because the Empty is astral enough now"

[austere bear]

new sword means new mechanics

[bold condor]

The lack of an explanation for how it became astral.

[subtle pasture]

I don't think Eden was acting up in the beginning, Urianger did warn the aetherial flow could stagnate again if unchecked

[severe brook]

it would feel a bit sudden without an actual fight to deal with it, when the story is being acted out throughout the raid tiers

[foggy coyote]

Rumpatump
What a fucking Chad name

[mighty light]

Making it more astral has been what they've been doing for the last 6/8 encounters

[foggy coyote]

lmao

[maiden lodge]

Okay, but...

[polar star]

God why can't we have the moves Merlwyb has

[bold condor]

No, we've been releasing elemental aether that's neutral in polarity.

But more astral than literal complete aetherostasis.

[subtle pasture]

Mitron awoke when Eden awoke, it's why the first thing he did was enthrall Gaia into the Voidwalker

[bold condor]

I mean, he'd been calling forever, he directly states he didn't have his full sense of self until CoD.

[maiden lodge]

you need to introduce a conflict in order to have a story, and rather than just introduce a conflict outside of the arenas, they used a fight as the kickstart for the conflict. That's good writing. So what changes? Instead you get another Twinkledinx fight, which matters A WHOLE FUCKTON LESS than any Eden fight ever did.

[severe brook]

alternatively, zenos could end up with Ragnarok as his sword
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Ragnarok_(Final_Fantasy_VI_esper)

[foggy coyote]

All the unique animations they did for pistols this patch have me like 👀

[bold condor]

Those weren't done for this patch.

[subtle pasture]

Though, the confusion would be that "the faerie has hounded her all her life" when... well, was he not dormant all this time prior

[maiden lodge]

Like can you honestly say that the CoD fight doesn't matter, when fricken A2 exists?

[bold condor]

Those have been in the game for almost a literal decade.

[mighty light]

I can say that CoD fight matters more than A2 and still think E9 doesn't really matter

[foggy coyote]

Even what Merlwyb does during her fan aoe?

[subtle pasture]

What other voidsent could they have invoked for 9, anyhow-- well,

[bold condor]

Yes.

[austere bear]

lvl 82 MCH passive skill is dual wielding

[maiden lodge]

In the reductive sense that if you replace anything in any story and still get the same story beats.

[bold condor]

^

[exotic galleon]

Scatatch

[severe brook]

Diabolos maybe, or Scathach. It'd have to be someone significant

[maiden lodge]

Yes. But that's tautological, and therefore, meaningless.

[mighty light]

Okay

[wind bough]

@bold condor if you've just finished E12 this may interest you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Artemis#Ephesian_Artemis

[bold condor]

Diabolos and Scathach aren't even mandatory.

[severe brook]

you fight Diabolos in Amdapor first

[bold condor]

Which is a side story.

[mighty light]

Ampador isn't mandatory

[austere bear]

crystal tower is mandatory

[exotic galleon]

Makes sense

[gaunt star]

Crystal tower is story relevant

[wind bough]

I just finished Eden too

[subtle pasture]

Plus they had another form of Cloud to draw from

[severe brook]

true, i guess CoD is the only one guaranteed for players to deal with

[maiden lodge]

The only major voidsent you have to have experience by then is the CT series, and that dumb scorpion in Thousand Yawns of Snore-to-rak

[subtle pasture]

Since WoD used its giganto final form

[polar star]

I kinda like the new cposes.

[austere bear]

CoD is the strongest voidsent i believe

[mighty light]

Technically the succubus in Haukke Manor, but, like
lmao

[subtle pasture]

A Ruler of the Void, of which we only have Cloud of Darkness and the Shadow Queen Scathach

[maiden lodge]

Lady Amandine? I guess.

[exotic galleon]

Isn't Diabolos Hollow the strongest ever met?

[gaunt star]

Haukke manor thats a dungeons I haven't done in two millenia

[wind bough]

The Cloud of Darkness may still be the most powerful voidsent we've faced, though we don't really know.

[mighty light]

It's difficult to compare them
And kind of pointless

[bold condor]

You know, I bet the in-universe explanation for E9 CoD might be that we also fight a lot of mandatory succubi.

[wind bough]

We didn't actually destroy it, remember

[exotic galleon]

He did absorb the queen of the dark

[severe brook]

You know what else is interesting? "Ultimecia" is likely a mistranslation
if her name's translated more accurately, and we take other translations' versions of her name into account, then we end up with "Artemisia" or "Artemisa"

[bold condor]

Or at least Lady Amandine.

[subtle pasture]

I did hope for a full form Scathach, as her vessel was explicitly a frail maiden to weaken her

[bold condor]

Me upon entering E9: WoL what are you doing she did not look like that go to horny jail

[foggy coyote]

I like the /cpose for both hands on hips, but the one hand on a hip is kinda derpy depending on your race

[maiden lodge]

A queen, yeah, but she's not the top of the hierarchy.

[subtle pasture]

But, she's also highly likely dead after Diabolos vored her

[austere bear]

simping for Scathach

[exotic galleon]

That's the italian name in the official translation fyi

[foggy coyote]

Female Midlander's looks weirdly stiff.

[gaunt star]

This but e5

[wind bough]

Now to do this one NieR quest or whatever

[bold condor]

...Ramuh?

[gaunt star]

Ramuh had no reason to be hot

[mighty light]

Rhalgr (sp.)

[exotic galleon]

Memory's foggy, but I do recall someone calling her "the strongest" in the questline

[foggy coyote]

Yes he did. He's your beard daddy and you will address him as such.

[maiden lodge]

And topless Thancred/Ran'jit did?

[gaunt star]

Muscle horse go 👀

[wind bough]

Ramuh was always hot

[bold condor]

Ramuh is always hot. And we spent all of Stormblood looking at Rhalgr's flawless abs.

[gaunt star]

Thancred is hot to be fair

[polar star]

here, cursed Valens pic

[maiden lodge]

To Ryne?!

[gaunt star]

Probably

[amber loom]

When do we kill that Bastard Valens

[maiden lodge]

lol u mad

[subtle pasture]

Cloud had every reason to be hot, it basically pressed its chest-- easily 40 feet wide-- on the edge of the arena

[mighty light]

All Valens pictures are cursed.

[foggy coyote]

ew, i haven't seen his face until now. that's what he looks like? holy shit, lmao

[bold condor]

Also Valens is the most visibly disgusting villain in the game.

[austere bear]

no more sympathetic villains. we need full evil schemers

[maiden lodge]

Valen giving the tidus laugh is terrible

[polar star]

And mentally

[exotic galleon]

Introducing: Fandaniel

[bold condor]

We literally got a sympathetic villain in this same patch lmao

[severe brook]

oh dear lord it would've been a tidus laugh if it was voiced, wasn't it

[gaunt star]

I'm a sympathetic villain

[amber loom]

Zenos is a straight up Yandere

[subtle pasture]

I could forgive the Burn 👏 Out 👏 The 👏 Bad. 👏 but the family part was truly, ttrrrrulllyyyy

[gaunt star]

My crime is all the war crimes i commit

[bold condor]

Actually, in hindsight, all of the Weapons pilots have been, too.

[maiden lodge]

He kicked so many puppies he got the National Puppyball League record for most kicks.

[foggy coyote]

We got a sympathetic villain this patch, alright

[austere bear]

Zenos is just on that relic grind now. He has no interesting development

[foggy coyote]

Mitron: A simp and pathetic

[subtle pasture]

Also Rommy how'd you like our 20s of Slenos arm

[amber loom]

He's off to "Find a new weapon"

[polar star]

I am once again here to say the Eden's Promise theme is the best piece of music in the game

[bold condor]

But also let's not pretend Fandaniel wasn't a whole ass mood when he said "I want to die."

[mighty light]

Can't believe they killed Granson off

[austere bear]

Exdeath kind of thing

[subtle pasture]

[mighty light]

Fandaniel in general is a massive mood

[severe brook]

I like how the Children of Werlyt can now be summed up as this line from the Brusilov mech designed for Lancer:
"The Empire forged us into weapons. Now we wield ourselves against it."

[bold condor]

Slimeboy Zenos is something to get excited about.

[mighty light]

(LANCER is extremely good, and yes)

[exotic galleon]

Zenos is just jobchanging

[bold condor]

No silly. He's upgrading.

[exotic galleon]

He has the technology

[maiden lodge]

Yeah he's in a new expansion, you don't keep using last expansions gear!

[subtle pasture]

Zenos gonna give us the 6.0 job preview

[mighty light]

In 6.0 he's just going to fire his swords out of a cannon at us

[bold condor]

Ame-no-Habikiri's ilevel is 290. He needs at least ilevel 500 to beat us.

[maiden lodge]

How's he gonna beat us with a level 70 weapon! What's he going to do, stormblood dps?!

[severe brook]

zenos about to collect 4 new swords

[bold condor]

Mitron already did the Chaos thing.

[severe brook]

yeah i know but i can dream

[bold condor]

Also that just looks like Emerald Weapon in Gaius mode.

[craggy gale]

Zenos just does the sword graveyard thing

[maiden lodge]

theblackwolf

[bold condor]

but he's gold stoopid

[austere bear]

well atleast they give zenos something to do besides sleeping

[maiden lodge]

That theme is a jam

[severe brook]

wait
that's what Zenos is after now
the (Leonard Nimoy voice) X-BLADE!!!

[mighty light]

Spooky Ghost Gaius

[exotic galleon]

Also Bahamut but on the MOON

[dim sigil]

(Doc Brown voice) X BLADE!!!

[cyan pecan]

Cool new housing item

[maiden lodge]

Reaching E12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8mYLi3PGOc

[austere bear]

https://i.4cdn.org/v/1607498057329.webm

your boss >you and your coworkers

[mighty light]

See he wouldn't even look that bad if he didn't keep acting like that

[foggy coyote]

ew, i hate that man

[maiden lodge]

That needs Tidus Laugh, or that wierd preacher dude's laugh

[exotic galleon]

That seems like a normal day at work

[mighty light]

It's the way he fucking moves and the shapes his face contorts itself into that makes him so disgusting

[foggy coyote]

I HATE HIM. I WANT TO SQUASH HIM. I just wanna POP his head like a zit.

[maiden lodge]

He even has douchey hair

[mighty light]

Okay cool it down a little

[austere bear]

i wish there's va. i think it be incredible

[maiden lodge]

Like his HAIR is gross as a human being

[severe brook]

i think either that moment or the one right before that confirmed to me that he was the Hojo and not a warped version of Rufus

[cyan pecan]

Guys, what do you think about the dragon icon?

[mighty light]

It's neat

[cyan pecan]

I got three of them because I only need two]

you can only get them at treasure maps

[austere bear]

hes a fun villain. fandaniel just tries to hard. hes working overtime for his schemes

[cyan pecan]

They're actually a lot rarer than the new emotes

[unreal hound]

the what

[cyan pecan]

The only time I got them is via the lucky loot, so we got three of them

[unreal hound]

dragon icon??

[cyan pecan]

The Dragon Icon, a new housing item

[unreal hound]

gimmie see

[maiden lodge]

Seriously though

[foggy coyote]

Leave Fandunkindonuts alone, okay. Let him be his little 25 y/o doomer self.

[cyan pecan]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/742643125981413447/786130640390717470/Screen_Shot_2020-12-09_at_6.22.09_pm.png

[maiden lodge]

I don't want Diamond Weapon. I want THAT guy. Let us just murder THAT guy.

[unreal hound]

oh neat

fandango

[mighty light]

I want Diamond Weapon
I want Valens to be a story encounter where you just bap him once on the head and he dies

[maiden lodge]

Dies to an autoattack. While scaled down with the debuff you get in the story solo duty.

[bold condor]

I like how Zenos's mind is so one-track, the moment someone gets his Oversoul they're like "preeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyy."

[austere bear]

chuck a milk carton at him

[mighty light]

Yeah that was on-brand

[maiden lodge]

Like he'd probably be down if he'd take the time to ask WHAT the prey was

[mighty light]

(I was mentioning this earlier but man I like Zenos so much more when he's interacting with Fandaniel
Their character traits play off of each other so well)

[maiden lodge]

But no, he just has to keep tossing more people in the Zenos-mind-melt-machine.

[bold condor]

Imagine if Zenos knew about this.

[austere bear]

It be more interesting but Zenos doesn't care as long as he gets his fight

[bold condor]

You know he'd teleport to it and take on Diamond Weapon himself to get the fight Elidibus snubbed him on.

[foggy coyote]

I'm torn between finding Zenos/Fandjango cringe and finding them weirdly perfect for each other.

[mighty light]

It can be both

Enjoying cringe is basically why Watamote exists

[severe brook]

I kind of wonder at what point Oversoul Zenos' data records stops
is his first death the end of the armor recording him, or did it resume once he got his body back?

[bold condor]

I love how Fandaniel's reaction to "Do you want to die" is basically "DESPERATELY but not right now"

"but might wanna get killed later so i'll keep it in mind"

[austere bear]

Fandaniel just want to have fun at the end of the world

[maiden lodge]

'Fandaniel, fuck around and find out. I will kill you if you overexplain one more time.'
Fandaniel:

[severe brook]

I'd say Zenos is the one who wants to have his fun at the world's end, Fandaniel just wants to end it.
Which is kind of opposite from what you'd expect of their personalities

[mighty light]

Fandaniel wants the end of the world to be fun

[bold condor]

Fandaniel finds pleasure in the ending it all.

[austere bear]

how much you wanna bet hes the guy who convice the others to make hydaelyn just for the LULz

[bold condor]

Zenos finds pleasure in ending you and will end it all to get that.

[foggy coyote]

I also kinda laughed at Fandorito just flying casually along his new pet in that robe. All the other Ascians usually float super gracefully with all their regality and shit. And then you see this guy, fluttering along like a dollar store witch.

[bold condor]

I love how bold af this dude is

[unreal hound]

roast his hass

[gentle temple]

So I'm just past the new dungeon and they've mentioned Estinien being missing like four times. I'm getting worried.

[severe brook]

i love how lunar bahamut just shows up
here i was expecting some big summoning at Ala Mhigo

but no it just flies in with Fandaniel

[austere bear]

hes a lv100 summoner

[foggy coyote]

Maybe Estinien is finally bathing somewhere. He'll be fiiiiine.

[mighty light]

Whoops lemme spoiler that
(The Void quests are probably my second-favourite thing about this patch so far)

[maiden lodge]

My current speculation is that Fandaniel's group isn't some new thing--they've been around since before the Final Days; Fandaniel-the-Convocation-member was a mole on the council for them, and the Telophoroi, the End-bringers, were responsible for the Sound et al.

[bold condor]

Normal Ascians: let me orchestrate my master plan from the shadows muahahaha
Fandaniel: lemme introduce myself, i'm fandaniel and i want literally everyone to die including myself

[severe brook]

that'd be kind of interesting but i also feel like the Sound turning out to be a big secret conspiracy would cheapen it some

[bold condor]

agreed

[maiden lodge]

Azem, suspecting the Sound had a personal cause, might have not wanted to summon Zodiark because they'd rather find the Telophoroi then do that drastic thing such as sacrifice a shit ton of people to make a primal

[austere bear]

eh, people want it to be Lavos so hard

[bold condor]

I think it's Telophoroi just because Greek is now an Ascian naming convention thing.

[maiden lodge]

Naw, I don't think it should be cosmic horror or any of that.

[severe brook]

i'd rather it be Lavos or Lavos-like then have it turn out to be people behind it

[mighty light]

I want it to be a natural disaster

[severe brook]

it'd be more fitting as something like a natural disaster
even if there's a monster behind it, i'd rather the Sound not be an intelligent threat

[foggy coyote]

A large monster fart

[severe brook]

at least not intelligent in the way the Ascians are

[maiden lodge]

Naw, I think it'd be more fitting for it to be people that destroyed the world, putting to lie the idea that their utopia was perfect.

Which would thematically echo those people trying to do so in the modern age.

[bold condor]

Eh, I don't think we need that for it to be clear their world wasn't perfect.

[mighty light]

I'm not opposed to it being a consequence of some sort of unsustainable activity the Ancients were participating in to their own detriment, and which they adopted a stop-gap measure to deal w/ in order to avoid having to give up some minor comforts which resulted in the problem getting potentially far, far worse, but

[subtle pasture]

Brain is melted from patch day, was it Mitron that said like, "It was fear that broke our people" or some such

[maiden lodge]

Yes, it was, Pashtarot.

[severe brook]

I do think we'll get a reveal that Amaurot isn't as perfect as Emet-Selch remembers it to be, but it doesn't need to have a conspiracy be behind everything evil.
especially since that conspiracy would be the minority and not the majority, so it wouldn't really help that point.

[bold condor]

Plus, like, drawing it back to the actual Final Days kind of goes against what Fandaniel represents.

Like, if he's just acting out the plot of the original Fandaniel, that's just the moldering memories shit he ostensibly hates.

No agency there.

[maiden lodge]

It wouldn't be the first time an Ascian villain was a hypocritical shit.

[bold condor]

It's different.

[mighty light]

Urianger: "||Go read a book, dummy||"

[bold condor]

Hades is hypocritical but never goes against his core motivation.

[subtle pasture]

Just a whole lot of, who is Fandaniel, where did he from, why is he, gestures vaguely

[maiden lodge]

Now, if we want to step away from past conspiracies

[bold condor]

Fandaniel's whole motivation is being glad to be free of the chains of the past and also wanting to destroy the future.

[mighty light]

He's also, like
He very explicitly says he's been against this for a while but that Elidibus was preventing him from acting on it

[maiden lodge]

I can also entertain the idea that the Telophoroi are Ascians who are from the Shards that were rejoined--they've lost everything they know already, and that may explain their nihilism.

[bold condor]

That seems more likely to me, really.

[subtle pasture]

Right, that Elidibus knew of his gestures vaguely

[mighty light]

Yeah

I also think it's more in keeping w/ the themes of the Ascians in general

[austere bear]

Letting a kid run an asylum

[maiden lodge]

Another angle is that Fandaniel's nihilism comes from realizing his shard is doomed to be rejoined through the Ascians, and that destroying the Source would actually prevent his world from being destroyed.

[bold condor]

...?

Uh, no, that doesn't make sense.

[maiden lodge]

Facing the destruction of one's world through one's own allegiances wouldn't foster nihilism?

[mighty light]

It sounds like he's planning to destroy all worlds; also, he's still talking about non-Ascians as if they were objectively inferior.

[maiden lodge]

Fair.

Also one other thing.

[bold condor]

Slowmode fuckin' me in the bum.

[subtle pasture]

If he wanted to destroy them, would the motivation not be to Flood them all

[maiden lodge]

The unsundered are wrong--they don't require unsundered to Raise ascians.

[subtle pasture]

instead of this Final Days spectacle

[bold condor]

Not necessarily. Flooding takes a LOT of work.

[mighty light]

Destroying the Source might also destroy the Shards

[bold condor]

Seemingly the Final Days doesn't.

[mighty light]

(And whatever he's doing with the Towers might be designed to result in feedback to them even if it wouldn't normally)

[bold condor]

Also, yeah, the Source is the main point of Hydaelyn, it's entirely possible that without it the Shards will die since they're all linked to it but not to one another.

[subtle pasture]

Guess it comes to these towers again, Merlwyb calls it "Garlean design" but thast Maelstrom patrol officer says it quite literally just appeared

does not rule out some magitek cloaking, but... damn, there's so many and how did they get there

[bold condor]

Teleported?

[maiden lodge]

Other than the three I know of, Outer LN, The Lochs, and Yanxia, has anyone seen/found any others?

[subtle pasture]

And how much would it take teleporting on that scale, with magitek

[bold condor]

Who said it was magitek?

[subtle pasture]

the supposedly Garlean make, which, I deffo don't believe so far

[versed cave]

[bold condor]

I mean, it's Fandaniel's plan. Even if it was Made in Garlemald, it's likely built to Ascian specifications.

Apart from which Garlemald is capable of some pretty crazy shit, especially of late.

[subtle pasture]

Fair enough, my point being they're a hell of a mystery

[versed cave]

So what, did he just grab them at a Sam's Club in bulk?

[mighty light]

"Have you no common sense?"

[bold condor]

I mean, they look like transmitters to me.

[subtle pasture]

Bummed out that, so far, the towers placed near fifth astral ruins is just coincidence

though, prob due to their major leylines, still

[maiden lodge]

There's none of those in Yanxia I'm aware of.

[mighty light]

Void quests really is all "roast the WoL" hours

[subtle pasture]

Right, my theory was when we only saw the Lochs and Nymian towers in the trailer

[fallow ferry]

So do we know if Fandaniel was a convocation member? I haven't finished the 5.4 story yet entirely, but I've finished everything else.

[bold condor]

Yes.

[versed cave]

Signs point to yes

[robust sphinx]

all the originals are dead; this one is just sundered

[subtle pasture]

I knew it was debunked with the Yanxian towers

[bold condor]

If the Ascian has a name, they were a Convocation member.

[maiden lodge]

We know there was a convocation member named Fandaniel, but this one is a reincarnation.

[austere bear]

pretty sure the next dungeon would be exploring the tower

[mighty light]

We also know that he doesn't consider himself to have been around during the Final Days, and that as far as I know Azem was the only one absent for them
Which is suggestive of something that Rommy suggested here earlier re: his reasons for wanting to die, I think?

[subtle pasture]

Red masks are Convocation Seats, for the most part

[bold condor]

There has literally not been a named Ascian who wasn't one in the whole story. Travanchet and Corguevais notwithstanding.

[severe brook]

i am sticking with the idea that the towers are like the aetheric equivalent of oil wells, at least originally, and now they've been turned to other purposes
presumably reshaping the aether into new forms to simulate the Final Days.

[bold condor]

Because obviously those aren't real names OR Ascian titles.

[fallow ferry]

Travanchet was that ascian from the Alexander series right

[versed cave]

Gaius did jank his mask, wonder if he wants it back

[mighty light]

Ye

[austere bear]

we seen all 13 ascians right?

[maiden lodge]

Nope.

[versed cave]

notyet

[bold condor]

Kind of but also nah.

[subtle pasture]

Not Halmarut, only mentioned in their Words in the Akaedamia

the rest have had screentime in some form

[fallow ferry]

Oh yeah, is our soul like fully complete or is it still kinda fractured

[austere bear]

its still fractured

[bold condor]

Only three fully complete souls existed. And we killed them all.

[severe brook]

Deudalaphon has less screentime than Halmarut, even
has only shown up as one of the Memory Crystals

[robust sphinx]

That reminds me: Are sundered ascians tempered by Zodiark upon conception?

[bold condor]

Well, technically Thordan killed Lahabrea.

[subtle pasture]

Deu was at the ARR meeting iirc, Deu, Altima, and Emmero

[maiden lodge]

Rommy killstealing Thordan I see

[mighty light]

We don't know how Zodiark's tempering worked

[robust sphinx]

It'd work just the same as any other primal

[severe brook]

they were at the meeting but they never speak on their own

[maiden lodge]

I mean we know how tempering works now.

[austere bear]

it doesnt work like normal primal tempering

[robust sphinx]

I bring that up because

[mighty light]

Yeah I just mean
Specifically in regards to what's going on with Ascians

[maiden lodge]

We don't know that.

[robust sphinx]

Why is Gaia not tempered anymore?

[mighty light]

I find it interesting that Fandaniel refers to himself as a sovereign individual (in reference to the Unsundered) though

[severe brook]

Because Loghrif's died multiple times.

[exotic galleon]

At least 2

[fallow ferry]

Same way in how Fandaniel isn't tempered, I'd assume

[robust sphinx]

Oh hell I forgot

[severe brook]

I'd guess that none of the Sundered Ascians are actually tempered anymore, as death seems to undo Tempering

[maiden lodge]

Because at no point was her soul infused with aether to the point where it was umbralized, and thoughts of blind faith pumped into her thusly vulnerable mind by a primal.

[robust sphinx]

They died after the split pre-fol

[maiden lodge]

You know---what actually is tempering.

[robust sphinx]

They explain that in the 5.4 MSQ

[austere bear]

is primal aether corrupting a soul

[mighty light]

LittleLamb look up like
Three posts

[robust sphinx]

Fandaniel is tempered though

[austere bear]

we use flying pigs to undo tempering now

[maiden lodge]

Literally yes, and that is part of tempering. This causes changes, abilities, but when enough of this happens the soul goes into an umbral, dormant state. This leaves the mind vulnerable to primal brainwashing. Too much of this and the body changes as well.

[mighty light]

Based on what

[robust sphinx]

5.3 MSQ?

[polar chasm]

so where does the music in the start of the 5.4 trailer play

[mighty light]

Which part

[maiden lodge]

How is he tempered, without a primal to brainwash his mental state?

[fallow ferry]

He is? I would have thought Fandaniel wouldn't be tempered considering how he's like "fuck the rejoining"

[austere bear]

fandaniel was always against the asicans utopia

[robust sphinx]

He still wants to ressurect his god

[maiden lodge]

Tempering is not just 'Zodiark did something a long time ago'

[mighty light]

He wants to resurrect him to use him to bring about the Final Days

[austere bear]

Zordiak goal is salvation not destruction

[robust sphinx]

He says that literally in 5.3

For all intents and purposes, he is tempered

[mighty light]

[maiden lodge]

Tempering is 'The soul is umbrally-aspected by aetheric corruption AND the mind is subsequently brainwashed by the primal that corrupted their soul.' It occurs in two parts, both of which needs to be undone.

[austere bear]

dude you dont need to be tempered to want zordiak. its like saying zenos is tempered

[maiden lodge]

Zodiark literally can't temper Fandaniel, because Zodiark can't temper anyone in his current state, and has been unable to do so since Hydaelyn dropkicked him into the moon

The Fandaniel that was tempered is a different guy.

[robust sphinx]

We don't know that.

[severe brook]

Fandaniel also specifically wants to use Zodiark as nothing more than a tool for him and Zenos' plan to wreak worldwide devastation. That's completely counter to Zodiark's known focus on salvation and restoration, and thus if he was Tempered then Fandaniel wouldn't be able to plan to do it.

[maiden lodge]

Yes we do.

Because if it were the same guy, there'd be four unsundered.

[robust sphinx]

We don't know where Zodiark is or what state he's in.

[austere bear]

lol

[mighty light]

We do know he's in the moon

[maiden lodge]

We know Zodiark lacks influence. We know he's out of reach.

[mighty light]

We've been told that so many times.

[severe brook]

Yes we do. He's in the moon, 8/14ths rejoined, and heartless.

[wind bough]

Well that Nier quest is somethin

[mighty light]

Wait there was another NieR quest too this patch?

[austere bear]

yea

[robust sphinx]

How do we know that for sure? How are they able to bring up sundered ascians to seats? they need to be tempered

[mighty light]

No they don't

[maiden lodge]

And please don't use 'we don't know blah' to support your own assertions, which themselves involve unknowns.

[wind bough]

Yeah a single quest and it's some Yoko Taro twisty shit

[robust sphinx]

You're not providing any proof though. You're effectively speculating

[maiden lodge]

We don't know any of the things you're asserting. We do know Zodiark is sealed away without ability to communicate.

[versed cave]

lol

[robust sphinx]

Unless you say "So-and-so Dev said in this interview, blah"

[maiden lodge]

And without ability to communicate, Zodiark can't temper.

[mighty light]

Dude, you're stating that your position is the default due to lack of evidence.

[maiden lodge]

Without ability to corrupt aether, Zodiark can't temper.

[mighty light]

You need to prove your position too, by your own admission.

[severe brook]

Eden showed us how they uplift sundered ascians. Their new life's memories are removed and replaced with memories from the crystals (or another source, in the case of Mitron and Loghrif), and then they are killed so they can use the Echo to become the Lich-like entities we know the Ascians as.

[mighty light]

You can't just go "well there's no evidence for what you're saying therefore I'm right"

[versed cave]

He's just gonna ignore what you say

[robust sphinx]

I don't recall anywhere saying "Zodiark is in the moon"

[mighty light]

(And there is evidence for what we're saying, which Dis just laid out)

[robust sphinx]

That's more of an assumption more than anything.

[mighty light]

Hydaelyn says it in the Antitower quest.
Like, outright.

[maiden lodge]

Hydaelyn told us. The Gerun Prophesies told us. Elidibus on the Moon told us.

[subtle pasture]

...Also I'm rewatching the Ascian meeting in 2.3 to recap, and I forgot all the chairs are occupied... all 14, assuming Elidibus is takking the podium but does have his own spot in the circle of chairs

[austere bear]

whos the leader of convocation? emet selch?

[versed cave]

Elidibus, isn't it

[robust sphinx]

Alright fine, but if only memories are needed to "temper" someone

[maiden lodge]

No one, now.

[wind bough]

Zodiark is the moon/is in the moon. We know that for a fact.

[subtle pasture]

Technically, no leader, but elidibus' spot was mediating the other 13

[main hazel]

The Convocation is the Leader, its a Ruling Body

[maiden lodge]

Memories are not involved in tempering... like that.

[mighty light]

||Can we please use the Crystal Tower to open a goddamn Voidgate||

[austere bear]

oh yea venat said something similiar about the situation.

[mighty light]

||This game is bullying me by raising the possibility and then immediately shooting it down||

[robust sphinx]

That';s not necessarily true as we've seen with raising up ascians and ruby weapon

[maiden lodge]

This is how tempering works: Step 1: Soul is umbrally-aspected through aetheric corruption, which dulls the mind.
Step 2: The mind's thoughts are replaced with those of faith in the primal tempering.

[mighty light]

Re: Fandaniel specifically, it is entirely possible that his memories were not properly restored.

[maiden lodge]

Raising ascians and Oversoul are not tempering.

[versed cave]

Fandango is quackers basically

[maiden lodge]

Neither is, for that matter, Lucavi, which is a similar idea.

[robust sphinx]

Okay, mr semantics.

[austere bear]

we just had this sematics recently

[mighty light]

So even if you do go with a definition of Tempering where the memories are all that's required (and that's a bad definition, IMO), Fandaniel probably isn't Tempered.

[robust sphinx]

They effectively do the same thing though.

[maiden lodge]

Semantics is important, in this case.

No, they do not.

[robust sphinx]

Not really, when... they effectively do the same thing.

[mighty light]

The difference is that it's possible for somebody who just has their memories restored to change their mind.

[maiden lodge]

They,do not, effectively do the same thing. You can't cure Oversoul with a Porxie.

[versed cave]

Sure hasn't changed from how he was on the balance..

[robust sphinx]

Not that Nael

[mighty light]

Tempered people cannot change their minds.

[maiden lodge]

Tempering is not the only way to ruin a mind.

[robust sphinx]

you probably could because the soul is being rewritten

[austere bear]

then its not tempering

[maiden lodge]

Oversoul doesn't actually change the soul.

[robust sphinx]

Are you sure about that?

[maiden lodge]

It works like soul crystals, which actually do not change OUR soul either.

[robust sphinx]

The name says what it does

[subtle pasture]

What Uplifting and Oversoul have in common is forcing one's mnemonic imprint on another, in Uplifting, the soul responds to the memories and has... a clean enough merge. Oversoul, quite the opposite

[mighty light]

tbf like
We don't have a lot of information on how Oversouls work

[robust sphinx]

The dialogue in that fight says what it does.

[mighty light]

Which fight

[robust sphinx]

Ruby Weapon

[maiden lodge]

Yes, it's explained how they work. They yeet skills and knowledge and a personality into the brain through brute force. This is explained--this is similar to how Job crystals work, but more violently. It does not change the soul any more than job crystals do.

[mighty light]

I mean
It doesn't say "oh no my soul is being overwritten"

[subtle pasture]

In general it's a "what is this voice," "I can feel myself slipping"

[mighty light]

She basically says "oh no I'm losing control of myself loud screams of pain and horror"

[subtle pasture]

then a slime monster crawls out the cockpit

[robust sphinx]

Yeah but then it kills the user. If that doesn't overwrite the soul, then what does?

[tepid hamlet]

I am uncomfortable every time this man is on screen

[maiden lodge]

Nothing is overwriting the soul there.

Death doesn't overwrite the soul, it causes it to be recycled and reincarnate.

[mighty light]

You can't just say "it feels like it's overwriting the soul therefore it definitely is"

[robust sphinx]

And yet you're letting them assert stuff similarly

[mighty light]

No?

[subtle pasture]

the soul is consumed to fuel the combat data, but it's still quite a poor magitek amalgamation of an entity, but all they care about is it fight good

[maiden lodge]

Tempering is a very specific process, done by primals. The closest thing there is to it is Sin-eater corruption.

[mighty light]

Dude I had an hours-long argument with Dis yesterday because I thought he was doing that

[maiden lodge]

Which... is also explained.

[subtle pasture]

Adding "Aetheric Corruption" to the list of Allagan terms I'mma use like they'e modern

[maiden lodge]

I'm not asserting, I'm pointing out the evidence, specifically, where it states how things work.

[robust sphinx]

I'm saying memory overwriting is effectively the same thing as tempering. Even if you don't need to go through as many hurdles

No where in the game does all forms of death cause it to be recycled

[maiden lodge]

Except it's not, because it doesn't work the same way.

[mighty light]

It's like saying becoming a Sin Eater is effectively the same as Tempering

[maiden lodge]

True if, and only if, you can find one that is not.

[gaunt star]

Dis acts like he's writing the damn lore half the time.

[subtle pasture]

The memory is not overwritten, though, in fact the Angelo charm is more of a mnemonic rewrite than the Temper

[versed cave]

[maiden lodge]

And in that case, the game's narrative actually DOES point out the similarities, and those similarities are narratively relevant, seeing as the cure for the sin-eater is one step away from being the cure for tempering like this shit CAME OUT TODAY.

[wind bough]

Alright gonna dive into Emerald and witness the new Valens stuff for myself

[subtle pasture]

But the technique there is Memory Transference, an Allagan Thing that uhhhh,

[robust sphinx]

Oversoul being one of those things that perhaps destroys souls 🙃

[subtle pasture]

idk, G'raha can do bc his blood, etc.

[mighty light]

Yeah, but it also explicitly points out that there are differences, and that those differences are important (IE why we can't just deploy Angelos the same way we did on the First).

[maiden lodge]

Except that Oversoul is said, directly, to work like JOB CRYSTALS. It says it, DIRECTLY.

[versed cave]

Okay honest question, for Loghrif's memory crystal in 5.3, I could have sworn it was a male's voice, did things get retconned or am I mis-remembering

[robust sphinx]

But it's not a job crystal

[subtle pasture]

In fact we can now closer call Light-corruption a form of temper, as they're swayed to Eden's drive to eradicate all Darkness

[maiden lodge]

Right, and it says what that difference is--the thoughts of faith that are also introduced on top of the soul-corruption.

[robust sphinx]

Job crystals do not kill the user.

[mighty light]

Yeah; also, the elemental influence.

@robust sphinx But they do do extremely weird shit
See: DRK

[maiden lodge]

You're right, they don't. Which is like saying that drinking water doesn't kill you, therefore drowning must involve something that is not water.

[maiden lodge]

The altering the physical properties is something in common with sin eater corruption though.

[robust sphinx]

Drowning isn't drinking though. It's inhaling. Two completely different things.

[versed cave]

Don't bother arguing, mate

[maiden lodge]

Yes, but it's still water.

[mighty light]

Yeah but it's not a consequence of the umbral/astral polarity; it's a distinct thing that is also happening.

[maiden lodge]

One is taking water willingly, and the other is having water violently forced into you in a wrong way. It's still water. Oversoul works like Job Crystals, but in a violent way. With a touch of Lucavi in there because of the use of Auracite.

[mighty light]

And unlike the umbral/astral polarity (up to the point where somebody becomes a Sin Eater) it doesn't seem like reversing tempering would reverse the physical changes.

[maiden lodge]

Well... G'raha mentions it'd be impossible, but that's rebuked by pointing out that 'impossible' seems a less fitting word these days. 'Doing the impossible' is a repeated theme in this patch.

[subtle pasture]

"Synthetic auracite" and "manufactured job crystals" (a la MCH) would be near synonymous anyhow

[robust sphinx]

...and auracite is traditionally used capturing souls

[maiden lodge]

No, it's used to capture aether.

[robust sphinx]

at least, white auracite is.

...which souls are made up of, yes.

[mighty light]

Kawaiian, yeah, I'm not saying it's impossible to reverse; I'm just pointing out that it's another difference, not really a point of similarity between SE and tempered people.

[maiden lodge]

White auracite, yes. Not all auracite.

[versed cave]

Arguing with disgruntler is pointless. You'd spend your time more wisely stabbing yourself in the butt with a fork over and over, and it'd be half as painful.
Also I had a question that got buried in said discussion.

[severe brook]

White Auracite is different from Ivalician Auracite

[maiden lodge]

Not even most auracite.

[mighty light]

What was your question, Haze

[robust sphinx]

Who are you referring to Haze?

[subtle pasture]

Aye, White Auracite is auracite attuned to absorption of souls, specifically. Compared to the auracite found in Ivalice and Bozja that are strongly attuned to mnemonic aether

[maiden lodge]

I'm not disagreeing with you--but I think the narrative is actually implying that even that may be fixable down the road now.

[subtle pasture]

And, compared to just, other crystals and auracte

[mighty light]

Yeah at this point I would not doubt it being fixable

[versed cave]

this

[maiden lodge]

And in this case we know what the auracite is there for--absorbing primals.

[robust sphinx]

That may have been post-sundering actually

[subtle pasture]

Also that, apparently, Black Auracite is both attuned to absorption of primals and capable of being a spellcasting focus for Ultima

[mighty light]

Oh I didn't answer that because I couldn't remember

[subtle pasture]

[maiden lodge]

Good question. The Lohgrif and Mitron in the Eden story line are reincarnations, not the originals. So their respective genders being something 100 Vrandtic years ago is not necessarily going to reflect their previous lives millenia ago before they were Sundered.

[wind cedar]

tbh they voices didn't really have distinct gender there, as far as I remember. You could assume any. Also, they reincarnate, so it's not impossible to guess that they weren't always reborn is same sex.

[maiden lodge]

But I believe their love is something that also reincarnates

[subtle pasture]

iirc the only Ancients with unique warbles are Hythlo, Venat, Ige, and Laha, rest share a generic sfx

[versed cave]

That's what I was thinking too, just wanted to make sure I remembered things right

[maiden lodge]

That said I do not remember the gender of the voices in that cutscene in 5.3. I do know some were gendered though.

[wind cedar]

Plus, but this is just a little note rather than actual fact, in FF12 Loghrif (or Belias, that is) was a male esper, but I don't think it has any affection on FFXIV.

[maiden lodge]

They weren't the generic myrnmyrm voice you tend to hear.

[versed cave]

Reincarnation isn't too picky on gender regardless either, but interesting thoughts. Iirc the Elidibus crystal had a unique voice, but too lazy to go back and listen to it

[amber loom]

We've taken on bahamut before and we shall do it AGAIN

[main hazel]

Mitrons real Name is also Artemis, the Name of a Goddess

[gaunt star]

There's only one cutscene for the quest in question, and it's for when you're speaking to Hythlodaeus

[versed cave]

It's been used as a males' name before though, so it's odd (what is spelling)

[gaunt star]

Artemis from Sailor Moon was male

[maiden lodge]

Artemis can be used as a male name in modern greece.

[versed cave]

and Artemis Fowl, other examples. But Gaia is usually always in the feminine

[maiden lodge]

Ironically I've played a game with a male Gaia

[versed cave]

HMM.. interdasting

[maiden lodge]

And female Uranus. But we don't talk about Battle Arena Toshinden.

[wind cedar]

Female Uranus isn't that rare either * looks at sailor moon again *

[mighty light]

Name Uranus is often associated w/ the planet, which is only associated with the god indirectly

[versed cave]

Upon looking into more of the Gaia as masculine, it's been growing in popularity.

[gaunt star]

That's really different though. That was just her planet, not her name

[maiden lodge]

In that case they're named after planets though, cause the only female planet is Venus, iirc.

[versed cave]

Wonder what my boi Danny's is now, or any of the others for that matter

[rain badger]

Has anyone cleared e12s yet?

Is it confirmed that eden promise is door boss?

[main hazel]

https://mogtalk.org/edens-promise/

Not according to this at least, granted there is probably a few groups that arent listed

[rain badger]

I saw stals group hit enrage

And they said that because boss became invuln its a door boss

[drowsy belfry]

I'm very curious why Fandaniel continues to use the Fandaniel title if he doesn't care

Tho I guess he'll reveal his name at some point in 6.0 or so, but still

[versed cave]

Fandunkindonuts can't make up his mind

[regal lantern]

Fandaniel feels like a cheap shot at a villain

[versed cave]

[drowsy belfry]

Fandananbananafanamanabobabana

I dunno I actually really like having an unhinged suicidal maniac as Zenos's right hand man

[versed cave]

I like him a lot.

[turbid aspen]

E12 theme gives me the vibe of an orchestral anime theme and it's so fucking good

[drowsy belfry]

The over the top movements are something I'm gonna have to get used to but, yeah I like him. It's nice to have another villain that's just being a villain because he wants to be

[versed cave]

Yeee, he's fun and has a lot of energy to him. But again, opinions are opinions, doesn't mean everyone's gotta agree

[prisma vine]

e11, what's the track, is it an ff8 one?

[maiden lodge]

Yes, it's from the Ultimecia fight. It kicks in when she starts casting Shockwave Pulsar, and it goes until you push her to the point she summons Griever.

[wind cedar]

That's "The Legendary Beast".

[prisma vine]

fantastic, please tell me the roll drops in here? lol

[wind cedar]

well, it should:

I, meanwhile, want that ff8 OST that plays in Empty once you're done with story and hope they'll add a side quest giving it in 5.5

[maiden lodge]

The garden theme eh

[wind cedar]

well it's not exclusively garden as it plays in several moments trough the game, but yes

and well... the extreme ofc, but it's already in game, gotta clear e12s XD (or give up and buy it later)

[maiden lodge]

I want Nemesis, and have wanted it ever since Orchestrions were a thing

[mighty light]

Speaking of
rip the Menagerie

[prisma vine]

when you go back is it burnt?

[wind cedar]

I think there's actually a track called this in the list

[maiden lodge]

Yes, it's from sub voyages, and it's the ARR og dungeon boss them

It's the song that made me decide FF14 was a keeper.

[wind cedar]

Aw that's cute :)

I'm surprised that they added this theme just recently though, thought it would do it to the list much earlier

[mighty light]

I haven't checked, but IIRC either Lyse or Raubahn says it is

[vital brook]

Dang they just used marauder pose

big disappointment

[mighty light]

Why wouldn't they

[sweet plover]

Has form changed been confirmed/seen in E12S yet? I have a bet with a friend regarding whether Ultimecia shows up or not.

[mighty light]

It's not been confirmed in this chat

[vital brook]

Ah, so an ascian prime is basically what happens when 2 ascians love each other very very much?

[mighty light]

Or when they fuse, anyway

[sweet plover]

Thanks! Back to watching streamers then.

[vital brook]

Dang

Gaia is a thighlander huh... didnt see that shit coming.

[turbid aspen]

now i realise why i find the E12 theme familiar
it sounds like a Great Ace Attorney soundtrack in some places lmaooooooo

[loud estuary]

lunar bahamaut

is it finaly FFIV's time to get cool raids

[wind cedar]

If that will be raid and not trial, of course

[drowsy ivy]

who tf cast the voice actor for this

[dim sigil]

turns out the dungeon can soft lock

[strange quest]

is the Ascian on the 4.4 cover Mitron?

[craggy gale]

Hey don't be mean that's the director's kid

[turbid aspen]

i did not expect rat people to sound like that

[drowsy ivy]

its so bad

[real kettle]

From all the things I've been hearing about the English voice actors, I'm so glad I keep the voices in Japanese

[nimble wolf]

where do i go to start the current eden tier quests?

[drowsy ivy]

a merengue

[zinc canopy]

armor eng

[wet crown]

@turbid aspen Did you not listen to the Mord in Ahm Areng?

[turbid aspen]

oh yeah true

i just find it funny that they shift from weird chittering noises to sounding like an ordinary person

[vale flower]

honestly im not really feeling the voice acting in this patch a lot, and im normally a big fan of the english cast

[drowsy ivy]

the child did not sound like a normal person
sounded like someone tried really hard to make it as bad as possible

feel like there were some changes and for the worse. and they also prob did it from home so didnt have high end booths

[strange beacon]

why was aymeric so extra when he met us it made him look creepy

[obsidian pagoda]

Wonder if they had to record from home or amateur studios

[craggy gale]

They probably had to record from home yeah

[vale flower]

YEAH

[real kettle]

Even in the Japanese version the child's voice threw me.

[obsidian pagoda]

Considering most of the English VA are Brits and they have had to close offices

[craggy gale]

They might have had the recording for 5.3 way before the start of the year

[strange beacon]

who knew ga bu was a british kid

[vale flower]

ga bu is our little oliver twist..

[drowsy ivy]

these could have easily been made during the first lock down

[vale flower]

also god I cant get over cids new voice

[strange beacon]

no offense to the va or anything but i wish they had a va like rhon ron, more eccentric, faster at talking, abnormal speech but he was just a british kid

[obsidian pagoda]

Cid hasn't changed his VA I don't think, can't tell without looking at the end credits

[loud estuary]

is it new? i thought i was craazy or just to used to what he sounds like from msq roulete

[drowsy ivy]

fuckin tiny tim over here
fucks Cids new voice
sounds like a gruff bar tender not an engineer

ARR had a whole fleet of different actors

[craggy gale]

You have never heard an engineer speak haven't you

[obsidian pagoda]

Last time CID talked was the end of HW right? where they woke up Omega

[strange beacon]

idk man to me the msq this patch was wacker than the usual .4 other than the first and last quest

[obsidian pagoda]

Maybe he's channelling Cid Highwind from VII with the smoker voice

[strange beacon]

you can't just go from killing the warrior of light to save two worlds to making a mommy porxie and dealing with pirate feuds in limsa

[dim sigil]

It's not so much the voices as it is the mic quality I feel like

[half phoenix]

Did any of the streamers hit E12S phase 3 today?

[strange beacon]

there's a phase 3?

[half phoenix]

i.e. the Savage exclusive phase

like Hraesvelgr Shiva in E8S

[obsidian pagoda]

Were there any special phases in e9-e11s?

[half phoenix]

i thought it was only the final boss

[strange beacon]

i wonder, i don't think so yet, most of the streamers are on their break after streaming for 18 hours today, expect it tomorrow night or the day after

[half phoenix]

so 4 8 and 12

[strange beacon]

@half phoenix leviathan had his exception of glowing a lot and idol turning into a tornado

[half phoenix]

Like for Omega 4 8 and 12 there were special phases

[dim sigil]

i think Nero has a new va to?

[drowsy ivy]

thought so too

[dim sigil]

but i can't recall the last time nero was even voiced

[real kettle]

Nero calls himself ore sama in the Japanese version and I about lost it with how over the top he is

[drowsy ivy]

translate for non weeb pls

[real kettle]

It's king I basically

[obsidian pagoda]

-sama is like a top tier honorific, used my lords, kings, etc

[drowsy ivy]

might as well call himself a chad

[real kettle]

Ore is a masculine I, sama is a suffix you add when speaking to royalty

[obsidian pagoda]

so he thinks so highly of himself. Ore = me/I

so Ore-sama is roughly, I (the lord)

[real kettle]

It's rediculious over the top

[wind bough]

My illustrious self or somethin

[dim sigil]

idk what i expected a Kolboid to sound like but it sure wasnt young British boy

[real kettle]

Lol I can't even think about that. Ouch

[dim sigil]

its not bad at least i dont think so but its interesting

what did jp do

[gaunt star]

It's kinda funny how all the nations were dealing with primal tempering for years and we just come fix it in a day after getting back from the first

[real kettle]

I was kind of annoyed how the WoL (aether related)||wasn't helping out with aether for quite awhile there||

[dim sigil]

its not like we dont have any to spare

i just took it as making other charaters useful instead of just being the MC takes care of everything

[potent raft]

so the new ascien is zenos 2.0?

[shell merlin]

no

[potent raft]

i hope not

[shell merlin]

he wants to die and kill everyone

zenos wants to just have the ultimate fight (which he did with us)

And wants to relive that as life is meaningless without it

somewhat

Overall not much is known so far

[obtuse plume]

Calling it,Zenos new weapon will be the Masamune

Based on FF7 Masamune

[dim sigil]

no you see, next oversoul is Zenos, and the next au ra is white haired

its gonna be Sephorth

[real kettle]

Oh, did any of you talk to g'raha Tia at the begining of the patch and ||get to show him your minion of him? || it was cute and one of my fav moments of the patch thus far

[dim sigil]

thats from the end of last patch but its real cute

[real kettle]

Really? Oooh it iiiis though !

[dim sigil]

good thing you didnt miss it tho

[real kettle]

Yes I'm very glad. I kind of obessively check in with everybody even if it's usually boring 😂

[vital brook]

Did Mitron die tho?

Like, we didnt hit him with the lightsword thing

[potent raft]

aww this suck...

i thought i get something from the end of the quest

[lavish birch]

nah hell come back azura

but just not anytime soon

[vital brook]

dang this BGM is so good tho, the piano BGM in eden's cutscenes

[real kettle]

Aww and that's the end of 5.4 msq for me :/

[viral dew]

Me upon entering this part of the dungeon.

"I'm not the only tripping balls...

"... Right?"

[nimble wolf]

oh my gosh the sisterly banter between ryne and gaia is so wholesome I can't even

[real kettle]

Motoya was alot more fun in her younger years clearly

[polar chasm]

So if ascians memories are gained from crystals why does no one notice anything about wols soul. Or is just everyone besides emet lost their marbles

[main hazel]

Emet is the expert in the field of discerning Souls

Noone else would be able to tell they are a Sundered Azem just by looking at it

[polar chasm]

Also ifeel like au ra really have it rough. Between ishgards killing them, garleans thinking they are subhumans or genociding them

[main hazel]

Its not just Au Ra, Garleans treat every other Race like that

[silent hazel]

I thought new dungeon would have diff paths and stuff??

[fickle stream]

Ayyy uhhh, anyone on Aether wanna help me unsync bsimark EX super quick? so I can do "The Hero's Journey"

[silent hazel]

or am I missing something

[untold gull]

rainbow puke

[obsidian pagoda]

That hurts my eyes

[nimble wolf]

nah you just jump through the portals

[silent hazel]

huh so it was just a lie

[craggy gale]

it's a hub area

[main hazel]

All he said is it wasnt a straight line from start to finish

People blew it up, as they tend to

[wispy bolt]

I sincerely wish the lava section of Matoya's Relict was a 6.0 zone. Its SO cool looking. I wanna fly around in there

[silent hazel]

but like dungeons are never really straight lines what's the point

they are linear yes, and so is the new one when it comes to progressing through it

I guess it was pretty I guess but got dissapointed myself for being hyped over fake news

[tranquil flower]

always take whatever yoshi p says with a big grain of salt

[silent hazel]

Yeah give him the free pass for whatever shit he says sure

I like the dungeon ok just ranting here over hyping myself for a dungeon

for overhyping*

[tranquil flower]

I didn't say that? It's a fact that he exaggerates things a lot, and I think he should be called out for it

[prisma vine]

i mean i read what he said and got exactly that.

it didnt sound exaggerated to me

[wind cedar]

also for what we know from 5.3 MSQ, Azem wasn't even supposed to have a memeries crystal, because we were deemed to be not worthy of it (I don't remember if because we left convocation or because we were against summoning of zodiark tho), so people of Amaurot were supposed to forget about our existence. That said, we have one only because it was Emet's whim so he created one for us.

[untold gull]

both, azem left because he was against the summoning

[wind cedar]

What I mean is I'm not sure atm if crystals were supposed to exist just for convocation members, or it was something you can have as long as you are "good for it"

[main hazel]

They were literally just supposed to tell future members the teachings of their predeccesors

A.k.a job crystal prototype

[fickle stream]

I can't seem to initiate "The hero's Journey" and I have no idea why

I have all three warring tirad extremes unlockedbeat ravana and bismark ex

[subtle pasture]

And you've done Safekeeping?

[fickle stream]

I just finished it, yeah

[deft cloud]

Wew lad, just finished eden

[fickle stream]

nvm I think i figured out my issue

[deft cloud]

And I have some questions:

• What is the oracle of darkness? They called gaia that, but she was "just" another unsundered ascian.
• Aren't all ascians supposed to be tempered by zodiark? If they aren't, doesn't that mean that they could go rogue, like Gaia (sorta)?
• Why isn't anyone having big reactions to learning Gaia is a FUCKING ASCIAN
  EDIT: Also, wasn't the shadowkeeper (the demon dog) Cyvela or whats-her-name? The elezen woman

[faint kiln]

I'm not surprised cuz I kinda saw it coming

Although I admit that I thought those memories of her and Mitron were fabricated

[main hazel]

The Oracle of light is Minfillia (hydaelyns chosen) reborn, by that logic the oracle of darkness is a reborn chosen of zodiark (ascian)

[faint kiln]

I was a bit confused

[main hazel]

Just like how Ryne isnt Minfillia,or our WoL isnt Azem, Gaia isnt Logrheif

[drowsy belfry]

• She's the same as Ryne in the sense that she got reincarnated and had the soul of a previous Convocation member and because Mitron essentially forced her to awaken to her previous powers.
• Gaia is the most recent Reincarnation of Gaia the Ancient, so naturally her soul is no longer tied to Zodiark. Not to mention Gaia is her First counterpart, her soul is 1/14 so Zodiark's mark would hardly be on it if it all post reincarnation.
• Because she isn't an Ascian, she's a reincarnated Ascian. It already got mentioned she has an Ascian-like soul in 5.01

[lavish birch]

also logrheif was the previous holder of elidibus's place

so that might make the oracle of darkness part make more sense

[deft cloud]

Yes, she was going to be Zodiark, but eldibibus got that place instead

So, the Gaia that we know isn't the Logriff that Arbert fought? After that battle she died. and some decades later she was reborn as a regular human in Eulmore, she was captured by some ascian and was awakened again?

[drowsy belfry]

Yes

[lavish birch]

yes

[deft cloud]

But who awakened her this time? Mitron?

[lavish birch]

ye

[deft cloud]

Jeez, to be able to awaken someone miles and miles away while trapped inside of Eden...

[lavish birch]

i mean

not that out of the question i guess

[wind bough]

Cylva has dialogue about Eden now

Cyella, whatever

[deft cloud]

That, Cyella. Wasn't she the Shadowkeeper? Aka, the shadow dog from the 2nd fight?

[pastel coyote]

yeah ?

[wind bough]

sure was

[deft cloud]

But didn't mitron say that he and logriff fused to become the shadowkeeper?

[wind bough]

No

[wind cedar]

No, they witnessed the battle together and basically manipulatied Cyella to become shadowkeeper. They fused to become ascian pri.e

[wind bough]

Mitron and Loghrif worked together to "create" the Shadowkeeper--i.e. they were her bosses, and also probably empowered her.

[deft cloud]

I see, that makes sense

[drowsy belfry]

The biggest question I have in my mind tho is why Gaia was wearing Shadowless Gear when she just got re-seated as Loghrif

While Mitron was just wearing old normal Ascian gear

[wind bough]

Cyella Eden dialogue:

||Cyella: Eden? And what should I know about that?
Cyella: Mitron? You're quite certain?
Cyella: And a girl bearing Loghrif's soul... I thought I sensed something oddly umbral about the Crystarium of late.
Cyella: Ardbert meant to put an end to the whole business, but truth be told, I wouldn't mind retreading old memories a bit. It might be nice to share a pint with the girl─once she's of age, of course. As a matter of fact...
Cyella: Do you think this “Gaia” would make a good waitress? No? Damn...||

[drowsy belfry]

Was it for ceremonial purposes??

[wind bough]

Lemme know when you see the aaaaargh moment

[pastel coyote]

Shouldn't we count gaia as an ascian ? I mean even if it was against her will she was able to show off a glyph.

[deft cloud]

Also, why do the bad guys always have the cool powers? I wanna turn into a monster demon shadow dog and fuck shit up. Instead we got a shinny shortsword (sometimes greataxe)

[wind bough]

It's because Loghrif was the only Ascian who had any drip.

||And a girl bearing Loghrif's soul... I thought I sensed something oddly umbral about the Crystarium of late.||

[drowsy belfry]

haha y'know what I'll take that as canon

[deft cloud]

"Having drip" meant...? Sorry, I'm not english

[pastel coyote]

same Lyon, make yourself clear

[wind bough]

||>Loghrif's soul
umbral
umbral = Light
Ascians = Darkness

aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh||

drip = style, swag, fashion

[wind cedar]

Well, because in ff14 universe alternating the look is often a side-effect rather than the goal (look into msq tempering explanations even, for example).

[pastel coyote]

heeeeh tbf Lyon for this case i would bet on a word error

[drowsy belfry]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah dev team c'mooooon stop making it so fucking hard

[deft cloud]

I suppose

[wind cedar]

Though to be fair as Hydaelyn's tempered, we... technically should be altering ours, perhaps. But then again Zodiark and Hydaelyn aren't same with let's say Titan so who knows

[drowsy belfry]

We're not tempered tho

[pastel coyote]

i mean there is nothing strange to be kinda umbral on the first......

[deft cloud]

Umbral is darkness, aka change

[wind bough]

Wrong

[pastel coyote]

wrong

[deft cloud]

Astral is light, aka stagnation

[wind bough]

Umbral = Light
Astral = Darkness

it's the opposite of what you'd assume. Urianger had his whole cutscene about this.

[main hazel]

No

[deft cloud]

To be fair, that's more of terminology between worlds than anything else. Light is stagnation and Darkness is change. What we call them is another matter

[main hazel]

Umbra is still dark and astral light its just the effects that were reversed

[pastel coyote]

hey Lyon, look like people challenge us on lore

[main hazel]

Hell, the new cloud of dark fight is called umbra

[wind cedar]

Depends on what we take as tempered, I guess. Hydaelyn is a primal and her blessing makes us immune to tempering of other gods (remember Ifrit in 2.0 saying we are tempered by somebody else). We aren't tempered in terms of losing our consciousness, but this may be the bonus of Hydaelin because she was summoned by 14/14 soul amaurotians, not by 1/14 sundered habitats of the source.

[wind bough]

umbral is not Darkness and astral is not Light.

[deft cloud]

To be fair, in the source souls are 7/14 (7 calamities)

[pastel coyote]

8/14

[wind bough]

So the only explanation is that the terms are being used here outside their Eorzean aetherological context

which makes sense, however it's just....why devs why

[wind cedar]

Mn... well, yes, since there were several rejoinings already.

[pastel coyote]

i'm ready Lyon, let's kick some ass

[main hazel]

If Urianger actually says the names are reverse thats a mistranslation

[wind bough]

Obviously the term umbral literally means related to shadow

Jesus Alice are you trolling me

[pastel coyote]

do you remember how the 8th calamity was called ? the umbral calamity

[main hazel]

Cuz in both jp and german that is not a thing

[drowsy belfry]

Except the game quite literally points out that we're NOT tempered. Both the WoL and Ardbert talk about this early on in Shadowbringers. Ardbert also goes against Hydaelyn by trying to start a calamity.

Ifrit also doesn't say we're tempered, he's confused as to why he can't temper us. The quote gets taken out of context and we keep bringing it up.

[wind bough]

I'm aware it's not a thing in all languages. In Japanese they're called Soul and Star energy for example.

However in English they're called Astral and Umbral, and always have been, and refer to the active and passive poles respectively. Contrariwise, the First calls the active and passive poles Darkness and Light respectively. The whole point of Urianger's cutscene is to point out that the terms seem backwards but it's because of different perspectives on them leading to different names.

It is not a translation error by any stretch of the imagination.

[drowsy belfry]

The truth of thine allegiance waxeth clear─thou art of the godless blessed's number.
The Paragons warned of thine abhorrent kind. Thine existence is not to be suffered.```

[wind bough]

Astral = active and Umbral = passive is foundational lore of Final Fantasy XIV dating back to 1.0 and is still true.

[drowsy belfry]

This is the exact quote Ifrit says, nothing about this implies that we're tempered by Hydaelyn and people use it out of context for their "Hydaelyn is evil" theory

Hell in 4.0 we learn from fucking Zenos that all it takes to not be tempered by a primal is to just have a stronger will then the primal, and it can no longer temper you

[wind bough]

We just now know that the forces of Darkness and Light are also aligned with the active and passive poles. Eorzeans' terms for them are backwards compared to the First's, but this is because of cultural associations. Activity = daytime, summer, growth, etc. Passivity = nighttime, sleep, winter, lack of growth...

Active energies from the Astral heavens above, Umbral energies from the Umbral depths below (coincidentally, or perhaps not-so-coincidentally, Hydaelyn is below the earth and Zodiark is in the moon, up in the heavens.)

I would like to see the German transcript of Urianger's little talk actually, since afaik the German localisation calls the polarities (Eorzean version) Licht und Schatten

[drowsy belfry]

And not to mention, the Blessing of Light does NOT stop us from being tempered. It just protect us from Ascians fucking with us. in 3.0 we spent the entirety of level 50 - 60 without the Blessing, we kill two primals without being tempered.

[deft cloud]

The echo is was protects us from tempering

[wind bough]

Which would necessitate a similar cutscene of Urianger explaining that they're backwards

[vital brook]

Damn he ugly

he really do be ugly...

[deft cloud]

No wonder he is jealus of Gaius Xd

[pastel coyote]

and he want you to call him daddy

[deft cloud]

Burn the bad

👏 👏 👏

[drowsy belfry]

Oh hey, can you no longer enter the fuckin Ala Mhigo place after 5.4's story

[deft cloud]

MAkes sense...

[wind bough]

Burn out the bad! Burn out the bad!

[drowsy belfry]

I get it's on fire but like, bruh let me go in

[wet crown]

it's burned Hedge

[wind bough]

Surely you can just enter NG+ of a past patch and go in

[pastel coyote]

burn the bad popoto !

[drowsy belfry]

So??? What if I'm a baby Level 80 Dragoon and need to go up to their for the 80 job quest >:I

LEMME IN SQUAAAAAAAAARE

[vital brook]

ah fuck...

[wind bough]

is that done via entering normally? or does cutscene just teleport you there?

[drowsy belfry]

.....I don't remember LOL

[deft cloud]

OH GOD OH FUCK

[pastel coyote]

i don't even know which place you talk Hedge

[drowsy belfry]

Lemme check

[deft cloud]

NOT AGAIN. FURIAE NO. DON'T

[pastel coyote]

hehehe

yoko taro you little bastard as i say

[deft cloud]

If I don't see mah boi Mikhail or Angelous in the next patch I riot

Because this is oficialy Drakengard terrotory

[wind bough]

yeah

the Nier quest is uh

[pastel coyote]

maybe i should check the other tower, i just see the one in xanxia

[wind bough]

[pastel coyote]

well without drakengard/nier knowledge you don't get how thing are.... kinda fucked

[wind bough]

oh I haven't looked around for the others yet, I've just seen the ones that are in MSQ

[wind cedar]

Nier guest is like || "so were they both machine lifeform all along or reall Anogg is somewhere unconscious now" ||

[wind bough]

I've never played Automata but the implication just on the face of it was spooky enough

[deft cloud]

This is not nier

[wind cedar]

But this is in case it's based solely on Automata, because otherwise the plot could be different.

[wind bough]

It's pretty obvious that at least Anogg but probably both of them are ||machine lifeforms||

[fickle stream]

kind of odd to me that "Bounty OF Hunters" Didn't give us at least a title

[wind bough]

I can understand that very easily without having played Nier Automata

[deft cloud]

This is drakengard shit. A FUCKING seed of ressurection. The last time those were used an army of mutant psycho angels that make the sin eaters look like children's cherubs destroyed the world

[wind bough]

Bounty Hunter is an existing title for killing however many B rank hunts

[fickle stream]

I mean the quest line at the end of all the job quests

[wind bough]

I know

[shell verge]

do you know if E12S have a transitionr, or is just that boss?

[wind bough]

Seems like that story is going to have further additions

have a what?

oh savage exclusive phase?

[pastel coyote]

giant baby ~ eating people ~ screaming alive ~

[fickle stream]

Let's see, I do hope we do journey to the thirteenth, I fully expect all the shards to be visited in some form or another tbh

[pastel coyote]

hehehe

[wind bough]

We've already journeyed to the Thirteenth

[fickle stream]

ik

[wind bough]

so are you guys looking forward to meeting all of these https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Lunar_Eidolons

[drowsy belfry]

Hey man, I'm glad we know what the 6.x trial series will be

[fickle stream]

I'm mildly upset that we didn't get more content from FFX from this eden Tier

[drowsy belfry]

I'm just wondering how they're gonna explain away the amount of Aether that's being SUCC'd from the world right now

[deft cloud]

Aaaand the sister is possesed by the ancients

[fickle stream]

tbh fighting Sin thematically would have been perfect, don't get me wrong it was great and I loved it, but missed oportunities IMO, especially since the tier had the Thunder Planes

[deft cloud]

C'mon Caim help us or something

[wind bough]

Sin is worthy of its own raid series

[drowsy belfry]

We already had sin tho

[fickle stream]

I really, really hope we fight Sin and the Aeons at some point or another

[fickle stream]

not similar enough to me, though I can see where you're going the scale is off 😦

inb4 in a different shard they don't have Eikons, they have Aeons

I want

sokken to be cheeky and make use of Otherworld, holy shit that would be amazing

[pastel coyote]

but if we have a Lunar Bahamut, maybe i will become an holy dragoon

[vital brook]

Oh

It's shieldbro, before we murdered him in cold blood...goddamn

[deft cloud]

HE holded the line the best he could. He stayed behind to gain time for the other soldiers to escape. He might be a piss easy fight, but I have respect for him.

[fickle stream]

I honestly felt so bad for him

[wind bough]

Rhitahtyn looks like my lecturer

[fickle stream]

they painted it like it'd be a fair fight but nah, 8v1

[pastel coyote]

One day we will ask Gaius if he fuck Livia, he will look at us like "dude wtf ?" and we were wrong all this time cause she was just crazy

[vital brook]

This patch has really brought to light how bad the empire is tho

[wind bough]

I mean Gaius was the one who...

[pastel coyote]

I mean she didn't allow his "sibling" to meet their father

[vital brook]

She wanted to be daddy's wittwe pwincess UwU

[pastel coyote]

We read it that way Lyon but we can understand it as "make your report in 1 hour"

[vital brook]

Did you do your homework, Livia?

[pastel coyote]

After all any sentence can be twisted, "the strong must lead the weak" heh

[wind bough]

[pastel coyote]

ho look like people struggle with E10S

get them Cylva !

[wind cedar]

It's FF8 themed, why would we get more FF10? :0

I mean, not that we couldn't ofc, but

[wind cedar]

Here I am remembering the time when we actually wiped on him. Dude used to have mechanics.

[wind bough]

No he didn't

not really

[potent marsh]

eden 11 is... is very kingdom heartsy isnt it?

kind of reminded me a bit of cloud from kingdom hearts

[wind cedar]

Well, hard to call them mechanics in comparison to what we have now, that's for sure. But there was a time when the battle could be troublesome.

[pastel coyote]

if anything e12 was the KH part

[wind cedar]

Depends. Thematically it's direct Ultimecia-summoning-Griever-to-mess-with-Squall paraller.

[potent marsh]

fate breaker

[drowsy belfry]

You should see the tomestone weapon for DRK

[wind cedar]

Ah if you mean just the fight itself then perhaps, yeah. Also lol, yes, that tokens weapon

[cinder spindle]

im very tilted against emerald weapon ex

[craggy gale]

so the raid is about gaia memories

[wind cedar]

Pretty much. Also about time compression shenanigans, subtly, in e12

[cinder spindle]

i hate the patterns in Emerald weapon lmao

[fickle stream]

Because the 5th fight took place in a location from FFX and ramuh was fused with Ixion, which is an Aeon from FFX. which could've been indicative of more shenanigans of the sort. The central antagonist of FFX is called Sin, thematically it would've made sense or have been possible.

[wet crown]

You're forgetting the pegasus boss from Sohr Khai

[nimble wolf]

so I just finished the eden questline, but where do I go to unlock savage?

[wet crown]

Eden-Ramuh also heavily borrows from it

[craggy gale]

maybe e12 should have been the utopia dopant

[wet crown]

@nimble wolf Exactly where you finished it

[fickle stream]

I don't agree but my memory might be foggy. It has a very striking resemblance to Ixion and it would be weird for them to use the Thunder Plains as a backdrop and use a completely unrelated steed. Iirc the phantoms that appear and run through their arena are also Ixion

[wind cedar]

Has sense. They could go for something from ffx in fight I suppose, but I'm not sure what they could take exactly. e11 for instance is perfect the way it is, I can't really imagine it the other way, given the story plot behind it. 🤔

[wet crown]

upper body Ramuh, lower body Ixion, wings Pegasus

charge attacks come from the pegasus

[drowsy belfry]

UTOPIA

[fickle stream]

Ah, fair I wasn't thinking about the wings

[fickle stream]

Yeah, I'm not complaining, I loved this raid tier. I was just a little hopeful. FFX was my first Final Fantasy, so I'm really biased to wanting more content pertaining to it

Getting teased with the Thunder planes left me blue balled in that regard

[wet crown]

That was only one easter egg. You set yourself up with disappointment

Just like I set myself up for disappointment with the new blue magic

[late void]

off to savage, i guess?

[wind cedar]

Meamwhile me:

Yoshida: don't expect much of ff8
Me: okay
Raid tier: full of references
Me:

[wind bough]

more importantly

we have to defeat Gaia's ex

[wet crown]

Mitron and Ultimecia also share similar motives

at no point were we wrong to assume her appearing

[wind cedar]

They do, entire talk about "place where time doesn't matter" was very obvious

[fickle stream]

Not to mention the final boss in academia

[wind cedar]

Oh I was really happy with that one. Was like "GUARDIAN FOOOOORCE" and my favorite one at that

[fickle stream]

Dammit yoship give me more. Yojimbo and Ixion are not enough

I was expecting FFX ifirt tbh

[drowsy belfry]

Oh my god Lyon dude what the fuck

[wet crown]

Someone figured out that a new blue spell we get is pretty similiar to one Quina used in FF9.

[drowsy belfry]

I can't believe you just made me realise the entire Eden Raid story was literally us dealing with Gaia's clingy ex-Boyfriend

[wind bough]

I can't believe that wasn't your first takeaway

Artesimp

[fickle stream]

Someone remind me, the void ark is still a thing we have access to, right?

[rain onyx]

Think so, yeah

[wind cedar]

New quests you mean?

[rain onyx]

Like it didn’t plummet after the events of the raid, it still floats around?

[fickle stream]

Would be cool as fuck if it became our means to travel to other shards along with the scions

[wind cedar]

You need to finish role quests first I think.

[fickle stream]

I wonder how long till we meet a shard of Haurchefant.

I don't see them not doing that to us tbh

[wind cedar]

oh well, the pain

[fickle stream]

They def have to do it to us. I'd be kind of upset if they don't

[drowsy belfry]

It's speculated some elezen dude you meet in a Lakeland sidequest chain is Haurchefant's shard

[wind cedar]

But tbh yeah, what if we did and just didn't realize it

[vital brook]

Godamn, Ga bu's japanese voice

is so fucking moe moe kawaii

[wind cedar]

Lol right? I think he even had it back in HW too but I completely forgot it and was just "erhm what"

[kindred rampart]

Wonder if the heart of Garlemald somehow got turned into a primal entity for the towers to cause tempering like that

[fickle stream]

God im glad fandaniel took Asahi's body, that way he has the perfect punch able face

[kindred rampart]

His personality alone adds +50 to punchability

[fickle stream]

Ngl kind of concerned for them story, out of personal tastes. Zenos wasn't remarkable to me in any capacity in stormblood, just a power hungry maniac that was almost cartoonishly an asshole. Having fandaniel be cartoonishly evil is a huge turn off for me. We went from mediocre evil ascians to two of the most profound antagonists in Final Fantasy back to mwahahaha evil ascians

[cinder spindle]

maybe we get more characterization out of zenos that might make him more endearing

[kindred rampart]

Which is why they really need to wrap them up before 6.0 imo

[cinder spindle]

I think zenos is fine as is. He's that serial killer type of character

[wind cedar]

Tbh I doubt that Fandaniel is evil just for the sake of being evil. But he's unlikely to be on Emet's level of personality either way.