Inb4 it morphs into a bow
#retired-patch-6-3-discussion
tawny relic
empty walrus
Azeyma makes me wish we had actual fans for weapon on Dancer
tawny relic
Despite that being Oschon's thing
rustic jackal
the hoodie and her white hair and stuff
subtle pasture
My original character was a Keeper with Menphina but I decided after RPing them that Nymeia better fit for his patron,
rustic jackal
she sure is the spinner too with the giant wheel
subtle pasture
Ofc that was pre Hrothgar…
rustic jackal
first starting the game I thought goddess of fate would be the safest choice for whatever lore might happen
I was right lol
tawny relic
Meanwhile, I went with Rhalgr because patron of monks
empty walrus
I already have the theory Althyk and Nymeia are gonna have E2 + Forced March mechs now
subtle pasture
I assume Nymeia will have one ability where she unspools a thread of fate,
empty walrus
Delayed time mech AoEs and gotta get yourself to the safe spot because you're "Fated to move in that direction".
tawny relic
Inb4 they have Relativity hourglasses
subtle pasture
Either connecting people or marking some type of aoe
iron birch
Where do I sign to give the remaining twelve a bit more melanin btw
rustic jackal
but althyk and nymeia feel like basically a set up for time mechanics totally
empty walrus
Nophica kinda surprised me with what we saw, but she is the Goddess of Earth so WOOO. LYON 2.0
rustic jackal
althyk being mr 'louisoix used me to catapult some wols out of existence' and nymeia being fatey mcfateface
iron birch
The wheel is a bit on the nose 
tawny relic
Nophica kinda surprised me with what we saw, but she is the Goddess of Earth so ...
Reaper but instead junctioned to an elemental
rustic jackal
she has always been said to have a spinning wheel
subtle pasture
Tbf, her brief is “depicted as a weaver with a white veil”
iron birch
I wonder if Nophica will have a bow attack
tawny relic
Yeah, she is literally known as the Spinner
rustic jackal
not a hoodie
rustic jackal
but I'm not too miffed about the hood
subtle pasture
There’s somewhere else that says her loom is from which all magicks are woven
iron birch
Close to the og, but different enough
tawny relic
Giving major valkyrie vibes
rustic jackal
I think it suits her
empty walrus
Nophica is depicted with a scythe not bow, funny enough with how her patron country is BOWS AND SPEARS AND HEALING MAGIC.
iron birch
Also they gave Menphina the tic tac toe forehead and I can't unsee it
empty walrus
Hatsune Menphina
subtle pasture
Speaking of Lyon, though
iron birch
subtle pasture
Menphina new best Beastmaster
tawny relic
Anyways, I bet I could make the majority of Ishgard pass out cold by mentioning that you fought Halone
iron birch
Also it is probably to avoid duplicating oschon
empty walrus
So, anyone else notice Menphina arena is a CHESS BOARD?
iron birch
Since oschon too seems to have a bow
tawny relic
Also she does have a dog
subtle pasture
I think that’s just how that part of the palace is tiled
iron birch
So, anyone else notice Menphina arena is a CHESS BOARD?
Could be simply the floor checker pattern TBF
subtle pasture
But did you notice there’s markers over the four-armed statues
tawny relic
She has a pupper, can't wait to see if it's named Dalamud
rustic jackal
I think a lot of the cities would be abit shocked you fought the gods they worship
see how we were talking about nald'thal by accident
and some guy was like you what now and we had to run off
iron birch
I think a lot of the cities would be abit shocked you fought the gods they worsh...
Me going to ishgard and shouting I clapped Halone:
The church in shamble for the 2nd time
rustic jackal
that would make you look crazy to be fair
iron birch
It is the wol
rustic jackal
wol gets taken to hospital
iron birch
Everyone would just take what we said for granted at this point
rustic jackal
especially since halone's so commonly featured in ishgardian swearing lol
iron birch
rustic jackal
I think estinien would trust anything you said
man
I think estinien would find this fun
I wish he was in these raids
where is he now? radz training, right
iron birch
Too busy bonding with zero
empty walrus
Estinien has been open minded ever since well, learning half of their religion was an entire lie
iron birch
iron birch
he's not doing jackall with zero he's just working for vrtra rn
Give it time, they'll soon be the clueless duo
rustic jackal
estinien and zero alone together would be the loudest silence you've heard in your life
alternatively estinien makes smalltalk, which sounds more horrific
iron birch
Estinien teaching Zero all the wrong lessons
granite nimbus
Nophica is depicted with a scythe not bow, funny enough with how her patron coun...
She's the goddess of fertility and life and thus responsible for harvests.
So it makes sense.
Whereas Halone is a goddess of war, meaning that it makes perfect sense for her to be wielding a variety of weapons.
subtle pasture
Halone wielding a greatsword? That’s blasphemy 
tawny relic
Estinien teaching Zero all the wrong lessons
Estinien starts talking about dragons
tawny relic
Halone wielding a greatsword? That’s blasphemy <:PKEseriouscatto:996190408650534...
Imagine the absolute shock the Halonic Orthodox Church would be in if they learned Halone was a DRK as well as a DRG and PLD
tawny relic
The church in shamble for the 2nd time <:haha:240841245239410688>
If you did the Scholasticate and Endwalker caster role quests, this would actually be the fourth time 
pastel venture
I mean just wielding a greatsword doesnt mean ur drk. we see one of the holy knights wield one
subtle pasture
Greatswords have a stigma because of the Dark Knight order and Zephirin is looked upon cautiously for wielding one, but he does because he’s a shorty who needs the reach
silk cape
it's wild to think of the Dark Knights as being a black sheep order within Ishgardian society. Especially when the only ones we see are Fray and Sidurgu
Sidingo?
Sigrande?
subtle pasture
Well remember how the order began,
rustic jackal
sidurgu
silk cape
Siddle the Middle
subtle pasture
That guy who lost his titles for slaying a child-abusing clergyman
silk cape
alaimbert of the spiked BUTT
somber storm
Sid
iron birch
it's wild to think of the Dark Knights as being a black sheep order within Ishga...
The world isn't just black (knights) and white (paladin)
plush summit
Man I have no desire to play Paladin and then bam, rewatch Endwalker trailer and I’m back to thinking I’m gonna be a Pal main
pastel venture
... at least thats what the fandom wiki says, but cant find any other sources <.<
tawny relic
alaimbert of the spiked BUTT
If he wants to stop being called that maybe he should use a different AF set
subtle pasture
Aye, I didn’t say Sid was the first Dark, who woulda taught him 
teal salmon
I mean we meet the guy
subtle pasture
Tryphaniel sounds right
We don’t meet Tryphaniel, he became a dark knight like 80 years ago
teal salmon
I mean Sid’s mentor
dim sigil
Aye, I didn’t say Sid was the first Dark, who woulda taught him <:drac_a1:100232...
There had to be a first though who would have taught him then
rustic jackal
the first drk would be that disillusioned ishgardian knight who turned against the system, wasn't it?
and ompagne was sid and fray's mentor
pastel venture
yeah he punished a clergyman for abusing a child and got his title revoked for his deeds
rustic jackal
honestly guessing there's other drks floating around coerthas but they're more solitary so we don't ever see them
but that's just a guess
pastel venture
and as far as i can tell, dark knights are not a real "order" but rather just people who have been inspired by other dark knights / have their own reasons. They're basically just vigilantes in ishgard so to speak, at least thats how i interpret it
rustic jackal
basically that I think
there's gotta be some other customs we never hear about and some shit with jobstone passing
pastel venture
so there is def a real possibility of there being other dark knights in ishgard that we just dont meet
rustic jackal
but that'll prolly forever be some mists of time stuff. maybe smth in an ee somewhere? prolly not
pastel venture
I mean sidurgu even mentions of that hes heard of other dark knights experiencing what the WoL did when they first picked up the stone
subtle pasture
Yeah, order is very loose, Tryphaniel is not said to have “taught” anyone the ways but Fray taught Sid and “taught” us
pastel venture
which kinda implies sid has talked to other drks thats not fray and his mentor
rustic jackal
ompagne seems to have taught both sid and fray
pastel venture
and yeah im p sure ompagne taught both fray and sid?
rustic jackal
I feel like anything sid knows might be off of ompagne's heresays
subtle pasture
Mb, I forgot about their mentor, just that Fray and he recruited Sid after what happened to the Orl
iron scaffold
oof, an issue that might get brought up again in the future I'm expecting
late aurora
Oh yeah you guys think they’re gonna do From the heavens (Orchestral) for the final phase of omega
rain onyx
all the phases will probably be orchestral or Primals cover, though
late aurora
Cool cool
teal salmon
Like we got Revenge Twofold’s Orchestral arrangement for Dragon King Thordan
rain onyx
all of the raid ultimate musics have been cover tracks, from my observation
UWU had Primals for, well, the primals, and then orchestra for Ultima
and TEA was more Primals covers followed by Orchestra
spice vessel
Does anyone know if they're increasing the amount of animals we can own in Island Sanctuary?
iron birch
all the phases will probably be orchestral or Primals cover, though
Unless there is a dancing madness phase, ye
I wonder if it is going to be literally all omega tbf
I never watched tea, but how is it structured?
teal salmon
ruby marsh
uwu is garuda ifrit titan ultima
with primals for the primals and orchestral for ultima
subtle pasture
Vault 1 > Thordan SR > Nidhogg 1 (+Eyes) > Vault 2 > Thordan CM > Nidhraes > Wyrmking, iirc
Oh TEA
LL > BJ/CC > A. Prime (with Formations) > Perfect
ruby marsh
LL > BJ/CC > A. Prime (with Formations) > Perfect
lacus litore 😟
winged lagoon
UCoB is all base music I think, though Beyond Redemption might"ve been new, since the version in the T12 cutscene is a lot shorter
subtle pasture
That’s CLL
subtle pasture
Locus > Metal -Brute Justice- > Rise > Moebius Orch, I believe
ruby marsh
i think so
iron birch
So ye
They could make a fight of only 3 omega
Base > f/m > omega weapons > omega protocol
Or could just go crazy and have omega pull from other raid bosses within that tier
With a protocol Delta, Sigma and Alpha (Midgasdaorm)
rustic jackal
imagine if they asspull middy and then we have ucob 3
ruby marsh
alpha as boss
subtle pasture
Omega Weapon > F/M > Final seems like a given, final may have a follow-up or a new design itself
And that’s just the guaranteeds, god knows what’s between those points
iron birch
4 boss is already enough tbf
subtle pasture
As said, my hope is Omega runs Programs that bring about the other boss mechanics
winged lagoon
Man, how do you even top Final's design
iron birch
But also Thordan had like 6-7 phases
iron birch
Man, how do you even top Final's design
subtle pasture
TOP will be “potentially near DSR’s length” but not nearly as difficult, iirc
ruby marsh
The Blood of Storm (Ultimate) when
rain onyx
probably not
subtle pasture
Yeah, because DSR has two phases with their own two Trios, and Nidhraes having its oaths
rain onyx
the checkpoint for DSR was to probably avoid people trying to save haurchefant the first time and wasting time doing that
rustic jackal
would be cool if m/f fuse to become some kind of humanoid singular boss as a new boss fight for omega....
but final omega is so. uh. final
can't imagine anything beyond it
subtle pasture
The checkpoint is because the first half of the “real” fight is “what actually happened,” yeah
Then leads into the alterations
rain onyx
But difficulty itself will be subjective
There's much to fear from the raid series with mechanics like Pantokrator and Hello World
pale crest
TOP will be “potentially near DSR’s length” but not nearly as difficult, iirc
That's what they say to get our guards down
ruby marsh
Well, they said they don't want to make an harder ultimate
Y "We think of DSR as the hardest ultimate and we tried to not make it "more difficult", but the direction and design is different, so it will depend on personal feeling, but don't expect higher difficulty than DSR"
pale crest
Then they kick us in the crotch straight after
ruby marsh
DSR will likely be overthrown at some point
ruby marsh
which i assume is msq ult for stormblood
pale crest
DSR is hard because it's long and a team wipe can send you back very far
rustic jackal
interesting at least
pale crest
TOP might have something similar
subtle pasture
I’m telling you, Program: Kefka + Pantokrator and some of the aoes are inverted
rustic jackal
DSR is hard because it's long and a team wipe can send you back very far
same goes for most ults tbf
ruby marsh
DSR is hard because it's long and a team wipe can send you back very far
isnt this all ults
pale crest
Yeah but it's more pronounced in DSR
rustic jackal
pretty sure most people's most hated part of DSR is the hp balancing on the dragons and the whole one dies everyone dies instantly nature? though I'd have to grab a second opinion
subtle pasture
As in, Program: Kefka makes Omega start doing his fake aoes… in Pantokrator 
rustic jackal
but that's a big thing.
subtle pasture
Gotta do Pantokrator but watcb which aoe has ?’s to know they’re the safe spots
ruby marsh
pretty sure most people's most hated part of DSR is the hp balancing on the drag...
just dont die
pale crest
iron birch
I hope they don't bring back blackhole
pale crest
Remember
iron birch
But also dunno
rustic jackal
just dont die
yeah skill issue tbh
pale crest
We'll have to fight young Midgardsomr in some capacity in TOP too
iron birch
Nothing in savage 1 to 7 is really hard
subtle pasture
My one hope is weaving in Tower of the Gods/Graven Image
Power Slide with charm/sleep tethers
pale crest
Midgardsomr 3: The Squeakuel
iron birch
In before Omega Zenos /s
tawny relic
My one hope is weaving in Tower of the Gods/Graven Image
Final Omega's dumpy hiding a black hole
rustic jackal
I don't think we have to fight him: or at least we have no way of knowing
tawny relic
Because that boss's model was huge, IIRC
iron birch
rustic jackal
I just think it would be funny if we had twisters in three ults
subtle pasture
Oh god, Program: Exdeath and bringing on his void spells
tawny relic
Program: Chaos
rustic jackal
oh man
rain onyx
don't forget middy
iron birch
Prob
subtle pasture
What’d be neat is if they have Exdeath, Kefka, Chaos, and Middy as new Omega chassis
As in Omega turns into quicksilver versions of them
tawny relic
Nah, I'd be more concerned about black holes covered up by the boss model again
rustic jackal
those are the coolest four
subtle pasture
Imagine M and F turning into the different bosses
iron birch
rain onyx
What’d be neat is if they have Exdeath, Kefka, Chaos, and Middy as new Omega cha...
I'm just imagining clown make-up on omega's robot face
subtle pasture
Kefka phase where he cycles through phantom train and chardanook
Just real everything and the kitchen sink
“Protocol: Sigmascape”
rustic jackal
just a phase where every boss you fought in omega is lined up like when you do wormholes in tea or predation
like outside the arena all 12 of them
iron birch
Can't wait for omega save state
subtle pasture
I can definitely see M and F actually transforming into the other bosses,
iron birch
And it resets the fight to an earlier phase /s
subtle pasture
As Omega cycles through various chassis’s
rustic jackal
easy since they can be jelly
late aurora
And it resets the fight to an earlier phase /s
“Nah nah, these results aren’t good enough. Starting over”
tawny relic
Can't wait for omega save state
New Patch mechanic: Rollback
iron birch
Another loop
subtle pasture
Like alongside M chariot and F knock back, also watch Kefka stack and Exdeath double buster and Middy dynamo
iron birch
While wol hp > 0
rustic jackal
I hope we get a cool unique mechanic like we saw in p8s' chemistry session in part two
subtle pasture
I guess I do expect Omega’s Trios/Formations to be “Program: [whatever]”
late aurora
I just hope Nero Cid and Alpha come in to assist for bits
rustic jackal
I hope we hear nero voiceover but granted this stuff is in alphascape where nero is KIA
iron birch
Like sparing thordan
subtle pasture
Sigma Protocol, it transforms into Kefka and lobs O5-8 mechanics
iron birch
Or codex
late aurora
“I’ll deal with the paint, just stay alive out there”
tawny relic
Sigma Protocol, it transforms into Kefka and lobs O5-8 mechanics
And also reverses them because this is Kefka we're talking about
iron birch
Also Omega strongest attack: it just doxes you
subtle pasture
I hope there’s a Psi Protocol and does Chaos’ stuff,
It’s one fight but story wise he is the victor of an entire bracket of tests we didn’t see
iron birch
Also
What does omega say
in before Sephiroth cause at this point it is just the recurring joke
gaunt star
Overrated Protocol
subtle pasture
But yeah I guess my dream TOP is that F/M phase they do the gender-fluid into other bosses
Ah yes, the genders: male, female, tree, clown, dragon
gaunt star
I'm a tree
rain onyx
Ah yes, the genders: male, female, tree, clown, dragon
these new genders are getting crazier and crazier. /s
subtle pasture
How horrifying will it be when you get to the first swap of F/M and one turns into Exdeath and the other into Midgardsormir
rustic jackal
neo exdeath and middy next to eachother
full size middy
I want both of them to entirely dwarf the arena
subtle pasture
F turns into ex death,
The next cast,
Optimized Grand Cross Alpha
Optimized Almagest
flint iron
How horrifying will it be when you get to the first swap of F/M and one turns in...
Assumed you can even see anything with their body blocking everything
late aurora
F turns into ex death,
Okay if they go through with that, they have to go “executing Exodus protocol”
subtle pasture
Trueeee
pine epoch
I cant believe I called how omega ultimate works
late aurora
Omega would be that nerd
pine epoch
This will forever be something I will bring up
subtle pasture
Like I don’t expect it to be as complex as DSR but I do hope they give each major thing of the raid series a chance to shine
rustic jackal
I hope the final phase transition is as sexy as tea
pine epoch
I wonder if omega will get a new form or if Final Omega but different color like ultima and bahamut
Since from the heavens orchestral will be the final phase theme
winged lagoon
Optimized Forsaken
dim sigil
No grey
rustic jackal
red feels so not omega though
pine epoch
Dont skimp us like with alexander
Tea and dsr glows and color are to similar and is a major complaint
rustic jackal
i'd bet: probably silver white and some effects so it doesn't look entirely like padjali weapons 
that or the colour of the lilac highlights on omega raid weaps, that would be in theme
pine epoch
So I hope its o12s weapons with DNA structure glow.
rustic jackal
really??? I feel like dsr is the colour of cheese
pine epoch
Possibly silver red and blue
rustic jackal
eugh
pine epoch
Silver weapon red and blue dna structure glow
rustic jackal
that sounds nightmarish to pair with clothing
I do think we're overdue for smth purple
winged lagoon
Optimized Heartless Archangel
Does that just kill you
rustic jackal
we got skipped out on a lilac purple in dsr despite the lanner being purple
subtle pasture
It’ll probably inflict a Beyond Death,
iron birch
god I wonder what the weapons will be like
Either relic or omega weapons
One of the two
rustic jackal
oh I care more about the glow than the model
pine epoch
They made it gold because ultimate end is gold
subtle pasture
Oh you know what,
pine epoch
And its stupid
rustic jackal
I did think ultimate end was cool
lusty shadowBOT
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pine epoch
The glow and weapons should of been red and blue. Blue for thordan holy, red for nidhogg rage
rustic jackal
I didn't mind the dsr glow at all when I went to solo thordan for khloe and saw ultimate end and was like OOOOHHH
pine epoch
Because that's the glows for thordan and nidhoggs weapons blue and red
subtle pasture
As said, I hope the weapons’ base color is that iridescent silver they use on F/M and in O12
rustic jackal
I think they should've gone into the timer sigil
maybe they've done it already w tea but I think it would've been cool as a weapon
red timer blue timer
gleaming rampart
Just thought of the best ultimate troll move: Omega's final move has it channelling all it's simulations and you see representations all merge into Omega and the move requires everyone to stack into one spot. Then last simulation to merge with Omega is Kefka and before he goes in he signals that the move is fake but it's blink and you miss it and then everyone wipes and doesn't know why
pine epoch
Ye silver base for the weapons
rustic jackal
like thordan and niddy naturally
iron birch
Although tbf
It depends on the color of last omega form
which is likely still to be silver/platinum
Unless they dip into blue/azure
iron birch
1 month away, so we'll see
subtle pasture
Yeah, iirc the silver Final has that kinda oil slick iridescence effect?
Would be fantastic as the weapon base
rustic jackal
oh yah
shut oyster
I still question who looked at this and was like yeah that's good, ship it
I WILL play tic tac toe on every single person I see with that hair
rustic jackal
too much forehead but maybe it's just that hyur... unlikely
shut oyster
no is gonna be ass
dim sigil
Viera
shut oyster
I know, you know, we all know
rustic jackal
lol
shut oyster
is from DD
subtle pasture
Probably gonna be on some allagan twink we see in a data recording
…maybe it’ll be Amon’s real face
subtle pasture
Actually legit Amon would be involved somewhere if Orthos is under Syrcus
Also reminder that the crumbling Dalamud in the trailer will be the second dalamud recreation we’ve seen,
!lsearch regeneration grid
lusty shadowBOT
!lsearch regeneration grid
subtle pasture
pine epoch
What's with allag and making dalamuds
subtle pasture
At the depth of 6,835 yalms, you and your companions are greeted by a breathtaking sight: a colossal replica of Dalamud, believed to be the device which regulates Bahamut's regeneration. The structure swarms with legions of the lesser moon's internal defenses, but through it you must go if you are to reach the main bridge
pine epoch
Oh @subtle pasture I found 1.0 dialogue from Gaius
subtle pasture
On the Black Warden?
pine epoch
That might get brought back for myths
Ye
When you arrive at the gates of your Seventh Hell, let the Black Warden know it was not I, but the good Admiral who sent you there.
Later in HW Cid says a similar line
subtle pasture
Huh, could it be a Garlean death deity?
icy dagger
Did we ever go to the seven hell?
pine epoch
First the archbishop turns up with an Ascian in tow, and now the godsdamned Emperor pays us a visit!? What is this, a procession of notable bastards? Who's next? The Keeper of the Seventh bloody Gate!?
subtle pasture
Maybe Reaper associated
pine epoch
Black Warden and Keeper
subtle pasture
…watch emo doll be The Black Warden
subtle pasture
I assume the Keeper of the Seventh Gate is also the Black Warden, since Gaius says they’re in the Seventh Hell, but interesting it’s mentioned by Garleans
pine epoch
But ya in 1.0 Gaius researched eorzean culture, mythology and religion in his campaign to conquer eorzea. Which is why he went to attack mor dhona first.
That was gaius character he would research the lands he'd plan to conquer to better understand who hes dealing with
Tell me, do you think it fate that brings you here? Some threads woven by your Weaver whore? Or was it no more than the meddling of Master Garlond? Hmph, it matters not.
subtle pasture
…dang 
pine epoch
Calling the weaver a whore
subtle pasture
Nymeia looking up from her knitting, “hm. I feel like smiting someone today.”
pine epoch
But it is interesting only garleans have mentioned some kind of being in the seventh hell
Once in 1.0
And then Cid in HW
Cause I dont believe the lorebook mentions them
subtle pasture
I guess I’d prefer it’s tied to Reaper stuff in Manalis than be a boss of Thaleia…?
But we’ll see 
tawny relic
Nymeia looking up from her knitting, “hm. I feel like smiting someone today.”
"The fuck did that dude just call me"
I was about to mention something about bad drip, but Nymeia has whatever the hell that loom is floating behind her
pine epoch
Her wheel...
I will forever go "why literally give her a wheel... as decorative piece behind her."
subtle pasture
Nymeia pauses her knitting, squints, “…someone is about to have bad luck…”
pine epoch
A otherwise perfect looking design
rustic jackal
I do like how literal it is but I didn't expect an actual spindle wheel situation behind her
subtle pasture
Her and Althyk both, how are they more gaudy than Byregot’s halo of nails
subtle pasture
When I first saw it I thought it was a nautical thing,
Then I thought it was wheel of time?
teal salmon
I noticed it was a spindle really quick
subtle pasture
Then I noticed the spool next to it, yeah
rustic jackal
I guess it's cooler knowing hey that's nymeia's actual spindle of fate
subtle pasture
I couldn’t see the spindle part
The Loom of Fate, from which all magicks flow
…apparently
teal salmon
I noticed the spokes, so
rustic jackal
...smth like that
pine epoch
Halone is like the only one I have no complaints about and really love from the new 5 gods.
subtle pasture
Yeah I thought it was a nautical ship wheel before I could rewatch and spot the spool
teal salmon
What’s wrong with Moon Cat Imouto?
rustic jackal
people are pissed she has no eyebrows
subtle pasture
Menphina is… fairly plain, all things considered
Dalamud is more decorated than she is
pine epoch
Dalamud is like cooler looking than her
gaunt star
Tic tac toe forehead
rustic jackal
I think she looks cute but I also didn't go into any of this with expectations I guess
pine epoch
The only part of menphina character design I like is the frozen moon beams coming out of her back
subtle pasture
Oh she’s cute as heck, but she reminds me so much of Seraphine
Basic pop star fit
tawny relic
Can't wait to see Nophica from the front
pine epoch
I really dislike her metal gauntlet and I feel clashed with her design. If it was like all the way up to her elbow covering part of the dress maybe
tawny relic
Not just because of her rack, but to see how her face looks
pine epoch
I hate menphina pigtails as well
teal salmon
I’m glad she’s blue
pine epoch
And her tiara
teal salmon
I called that
subtle pasture
I mostly don’t like her design because of how decorated Azeyma is in comparison,
They’re the sun and moon sisters 
teal salmon
Well she is the younger sister
tawny relic
Azeyma was the favored child
pine epoch
She is also oschon lover
dawn wave
i feel like menphina doesn’t have enough moon motifs
subtle pasture
She gives the vibe of an ice fairy which is fine,
tawny relic
Can't wait for her to do the moon attack from Elden Ring
pine epoch
I dont get the vibe of goddess of moon and love.
She feels more like a ice fairy goddess
pine epoch
Halone fits the bill of goddess of war
tawny relic
Yeah, Halone's look is immaculate
late aurora
Something something lunacy
tawny relic
She clearly doesn't skip laundry day
teal salmon
I like how her weapon shifts between spear and sword
pine epoch
I really hope my misgivings go away once the patch drops cause I dont wanna be negative about these raids >.<
pine epoch
That is the thing tho with making all the bosses this raid series the 12. Not all the designs are going to be as loved.
Your gonna have hit or misses
iron birch
She is also oschon lover
in before she is oschon sister
pine epoch
Back to the black warden. The fact there is only 3 gods left that opens up a ??? Of whose the 4th boss of 6.5 raid.
Which is why I've been bringing up the Black Warden
iron birch
TBF we already saw with Rahlgar and hammer god that they don't have to forcefully follow the relationship chart
tawny relic
From what we know of Twelve lore, Oschon just kind of showed up one day
winged lagoon
Second phase where she wears Dalamud (and only Dalamud) like E8s
teal salmon
From what we know of Twelve lore, Oschon just kind of showed up one day
So he just Wandered in? 
tawny relic
Yes
pine epoch
Mostly just. Getting more annoyed about the alliance raid the longer I think about it.
subtle pasture
My annoyance with design choice is being outweighed by Nymeia’s mere presence, Menphina song, and Nophica having seasonal shifts
Also just being in the Heaven of Ice,
winged lagoon
And seasonal tits
pine epoch
Thaliak, llymlaen, oschon, ??? Is what I'm mostly thinking about now to get me excited.
subtle pasture
The final boss will be “The Thirteenth Wonder”
iron birch
The 14th god /s
pine epoch
The 13th unknown god who was sealed away
viscid monolith
This better be more than them just testing us because a GrEaT EvIl is about to be unleashed
winged lagoon
The Jailer
subtle pasture
….
iron birch
"and Bahamut stirs"
TBF I'm starting to think the twelve are actual manifestation of people hopes and dreams or some shit
So
viscid monolith
Hades Remnant
subtle pasture
Technically Pashtarot is the jailor of the convocation, huh
subtle pasture
Preserver of Discipline and Order
somber storm
The horny jail man
pine epoch
With the raid. At first I vibed hard with aglaia. But the more I've thought about it. I kind of dont care a lot to fight the twelve. I'm more interested in studying the heavens and omphalos. The more I think about it the more I get aggravated with the 12.
crystal arrow
The black warden jailer
empty walrus
Tbf, we won't know the motives or what they are until probably end of this Alliance Raid.
pale crest
(Apocalypse in background)
iron birch
Tbf, we won't know the motives or what they are until probably end of this Allia...
Well, we'll probably know 50-70% of the truth at the end of this tier
iron birch
Also TBF the heaven story line was clearly an excuse for us to fight the twelve from the start
Whatever mistery comes with them, it comes second in the end
and AR in general have poor and short stories
pine epoch
I feel mostly what set me off is kind of just having the gods being all the bosses this raid series is what's kind getting me annoyed. Cause I think back on the title and pr talk yoshida did for the raid and what we have now. I feel kind of robbed. Of like traveling across eorzea researching myriad of myths. But should of been obvious given the art was just the 12s symbols.
subtle pasture
Tbf, the Heavens being scattered across Eorzea mean we technically do 
iron birch
TBF the pr was about discovering the mysteries of the twelve from the start (and of course fighting them)
subtle pasture
But I do want more fleshed out between sections of investigating with the team
crystal arrow
I feel mostly what set me off is kind of just having the gods being all the boss...
Yeah i feel like the name is misleading
tawny relic
The real myths were the friends we made along the way
iron birch
But this circles back to AR being poor way to tell stories that would require more time
tawny relic
Wait
subtle pasture
What disappointed me with Aglaia was that part only went back to the Sixth Umbral Era, when the Mhachi survivors likely witnessed Rhalgr through the destabilized veil,
iron birch
TFW Nier made you explore the place at least /s
subtle pasture
But like, how are we suppose to get 0 era lore if part 1 only goes to that latest point
empty walrus
We won't know
tawny relic
Althyk time
empty walrus
subtle pasture
iron birch
Also tbg
tawny relic
We do have the god of time this tier
iron birch
We dunno when the twelve were created
empty walrus
Hard to call anything when we're still going through the story
iron birch
So that also is part of the mystery I guess
subtle pasture
AT LEAST give me deep War of the Magi lore in this set of quests
pine epoch
Part 2 has big pants to fill. Cause abyssos over in panda hit the jackpot I feel.
iron birch
aside being rushed for Tartarus and the middle stage, ye
But I feel like part 2 will go over what the twelve actually are
While the reason for why we're fighting them will be left in the 3rd tier
There is Ghra device in the first place, they were analyzing the stone, and Dalamund existing at all will point the characters to ask questions
pine epoch
I do feel robbed. Cause I really liked nier having quest in 5.2 and 5.4 and wished myths could of had that.
empty walrus
What I want to bring up is Menphina is Oschon's lover
pine epoch
But it was only done cause Yoko taro requested it
empty walrus
And Deryk looks mighty similar to Oschon from the Arrow card
teal salmon
But it was only done cause Yoko taro requested it
He wrote it
empty walrus
Which isn't surprising, stories change over time from the original source
subtle pasture
And Menphina seems to be “leading” this arc,
iron birch
See Midgasdaorm too
empty walrus
We aren't even supposed to be in the 7th Heaven cause apparently we DIE if we do
subtle pasture
esp if she is the final boss of Euphrosyne
subtle pasture
Oh you know what,
Nald’thal “lead” the first arc, and was made by Oschon
Menphina leads this arc, and is his lover
iron birch
Ye, and Oschon is prob the opo opo
subtle pasture
Or was Byregot the one that kinda lead the charge before Aglaia
iron birch
Technically, all of them toghetor
pine epoch
Bryegot was the one who challenged us
iron birch
Nhald Thal was just in the back
subtle pasture
Also, that Deryk is occupied somewhere
Since G’raha is our companion for Euphrosyne
pine epoch
But ya, I'm just sitting around waiting for the patch to drop so I can actually determine how I like it or not.
Just right now all I can do is pick apart the character designs of the gods
iron birch
Uhm, too early to say for that
For all we know he could have slipped on a banana peel
subtle pasture
As in we saw G’raha with us in the start of the raid when Yoshi previewed the first half of the Heaven of Earth
pine epoch
I do feel like I'm on the money of what the twelve are.
iron birch
Oh, ye, I got that
subtle pasture
Doing scans with his backpack thingamajig
pine epoch
Oh I remember one of my dislikes but this is more of s dislike of how yoshida has been handling previewing the alliance raids this patch. "Spoilers" and not showing the bosses
iron birch
I also still think the twelve are not Hydealyn creations at all
pine epoch
And only showing us sights
dawn wave
what did you say the twelve were xel
pine epoch
Recreations of hydaelyns summoners like the watcher
subtle pasture
Fields of Abundance > aboreal platforms > The Bole > ice sculptures > Tower of War > Cathedral of Love
empty walrus
They haven't shown Nophica titty because of ToS
pine epoch
Or warriors of light from the first era
subtle pasture
Is my theory for the raid makeup
iron birch
I protend over the 2nd
dawn wave
i think i’m just not a huge fan of the meeting your gods thing bc it feels like saying they have to be “real” for that faith to be valid
iron birch
Although the other idea is that the twelve are just actual nature born deities
pine epoch
Because were told Crystal's of light in earlier eras are stronger and denser than the ones of our era.
dawn wave
but i don’t have strong feelings abt it either way
pine epoch
Either way my money is on their some form servants of hydaelyn
iron birch
To clarify, kinda like weapons in ff7 are made by Gaia, but they're shaped by people faith and prayers
pine epoch
Whether she created them like the watcher. Or they were former wols
iron birch
But not primals
rustic jackal
I dunno if they’re saying they have to be real for the faith to be valid yet. I’m gonna wait till we find out what they actually are but tbh I hope they spawned out of just sheer belief personally
dawn wave
they did insist they weren’t primals which was a head scratcher
iron birch
So it isn't the god that shaped the faith, but the faith that shaped the god
rustic jackal
I like the whole magic is real if you believe in it stuff
dawn wave
guess we’ll find out
iron birch
Dalamund existing is what makes me protend towards this idea
But also no real basis aside that
crystal arrow
they did insist they weren’t primals which was a head scratcher
i question how honest they are abt that tbh
empty walrus
The thing about Primals is if we did defeat them, they wouldn't have returned as fast as they did
winged lagoon
"We're not primals."
"Are you eikons then?"
"Uh....."
crystal arrow
The thing about Primals is if we did defeat them, they wouldn't have returned as...
We dont know this
dawn wave
lying bastards YARGHHHHH
crystal arrow
We dont know anything abt the phantom realm
rustic jackal
trust nobody
iron birch
Not even yourself
crystal arrow
We also dunno if we "killed" them
subtle pasture
Oh right… there’s an MSQ wall for Euphrosyne, isn’t there
pine epoch
We've seen the souls of at least bryegot and rhalger. Taking on the forms of their servants the hawk and spriggan
iron birch
Oh right… there’s an MSQ wall for Euphrosyne, isn’t there
Prob for Ghra to be there with us
Again
subtle pasture
This is gonna have as many msq gates as Eden
empty walrus
But we do know for Primals to come into being they have to be summoned.
iron birch
Live letter
dawn wave
yes..
pine epoch
And when nald thal is defeated he has the same death animation as the ancients except green instead of blue
empty walrus
It's the entire point of early MSQ is "Don't let Beastmen get Crystals or else we have a Primal to deal with again after you just defeated them."
crystal arrow
hydaelyn couldve summoned them.
subtle pasture
It’s like, what is a god in this world. We have Creation mages and Eikons/Primals/Deiforms
iron birch
But we do know for Primals to come into being they have to be summoned.
Ye, I think they might be playing around the idea of what is a summon and what isn't
rustic jackal
is the msq gate to play to end of .3?
subtle pasture
So the Q is, what are the Twelve in comparison to those two forms of “divinity”
tight marlin
It’s like, what is a god in this world. We have Creation mages and Eikons/Primal...
Obviously God is whoever is hot
dawn wave
i couldn’t find mentions of the msq gate on the slideshow
crystal arrow
Do we have an ugly god
zodiark
rustic jackal
Debatable
dawn wave
if someone can link to the translation bit where they mention the msq requirement that would be cool
subtle pasture
There’s also how Athena’s research in Pandaemonium is called “transcending into the divine,”
dawn wave
cuz i can’t find it for the life of me
subtle pasture
But that’s separate bull… for now
pine epoch
Zodiark got robbed of a good character design in favor of letting amano design him. And I will forever not make this complaints >:l
subtle pasture
if someone can link to the translation bit where they mention the msq requiremen...
One sec, i do believe it was a slide
crystal arrow
There’s also how Athena’s research in Pandaemonium is called “transcending into ...
i keep thinking about bloodborne parallels with this
forcing yourself to become a god
empty walrus
And again Senny, we watch them disappear into green energy after we beat them, and they come right back to go "It was just a ruse so you'd fight us". That goes against the laws of Primals because they have to be resummoned after having their form destabilized, as we watch them do.
tight marlin
Zodiark got robbed of a good character design in favor of letting amano design h...
Black Chaos?
crystal arrow
And again Senny, we watch them disappear into green energy after we beat them, a...
we still dont know.
like, we cant say anything about their nature yet.
iron birch
TL:Dr we don't know jackshit
crystal arrow
especially not ruling out primals
iron birch
Make whatever theories sounds right to you
crystal arrow
given livingway's explanation of "proper" summoning.
rustic jackal
crystal arrow
if they were willing to put up a ruse that they wanted to tyrannically control the star, i dont buy them saying they arent primals, either
it gives them wiggle room besides
pine epoch
But ya their death animation is the same as an ancient except green. And we've seen their souls being elementally aligned.
iron birch
To go back to my idea, they might be saying they're not Primals cause if faith shaped them in a natural way, it was not an irruent and actual voluntary act from someone (the summoning)
empty walrus
Another thing, we've never seen a Primal do what the Twelve do by using either living creatures or in Byregot's case, a golem in order to be among the world
empty walrus
Could there be levels to this? Maybe. But they are not the standard of Primal we know even if.
iron birch
Magic is gonna be magic
torpid yoke
inb4 a stone keeps resummoning them
teal salmon
Hydaelyn used Krile and Minfillia
rustic jackal
are we only working with the definition of primals being summoned via crystals here
torpid yoke
like the panda stone
subtle pasture
Oh yeah, i can’t find the line about Euphrosyne having an MSQ gate…
crystal arrow
Could there be *levels* to this? Maybe. But they are not the standard of Primal ...
but the definition we know is very narrow.
like
shadowkeeper, fatebreaker and ra-la kinda count
iron birch
are we only working with the definition of primals being summoned via crystals h...
TBF summoning by crystal is part of the Primals process
pine bison
Oh yeah, i can’t find the line about Euphrosyne having an MSQ gate…
Wasn't it just a single tweet assuming so? Didn't see it in any liveletter translations
rustic jackal
because I do doubt that they’re summoned manually via crystals if at all but I won’t admonish the very real possible they could still be born of faith still that’s just my tuppence
teal salmon
Shadowkeeper was more akin to an Ancient’s transformation
Because she was something Mitron made
rustic jackal
Then I see why they’re so determined to say they’re not primals if that’s the only definition they’re working on
iron birch
Shadowkeeper is also not a primal, she just fuses/gets imbued by darkness and the ascians
rustic jackal
it doesn’t really chuck many other possibilities out the window
teal salmon
She was also a memory
crystal arrow
<:playdead:593162355274285075>
its a false claim being spread around
empty walrus
but the definition we know is very narrow.
Yes, and that definition is a figure of notability or mythology summoned through a ritual by the summoner's will that requires aether, commonly in the form of crystals but will drain the land too
crystal arrow
Yes, and that definition is a figure of notability or mythology summoned through...
but we know "proper" summoning is possible.
from livingway
we dont know like
empty walrus
And every time we've fought a Primal, we disrupt their form and they go back to the Lifestream
crystal arrow
if the phantom realm has unique qualities that sustain them
or something
there's no real conclusions we can make about their nature yet.
just weird inconsistencies
like, menphina having dalamud at all
pine epoch
Cant wait for the phantom realms to end up being mystical seals preventing a 13th god from being set free that's living in the 7th gate
rustic jackal
that dog is fuckin dead
teal salmon
And every time we've fought a Primal, we disrupt their form and they go back to ...
The Lifestream thing was disproven long ago
crystal arrow
got a citation for that claim @teal salmon
empty walrus
It's never been disproven wut
pine epoch
In the lifestream
teal salmon
That’s Ysayle herself, who effectively is that Shiva; I mean like the old lore from like the 1.0 trailer
pine epoch
????
empty walrus
This was said in ARR
rustic jackal
rustic jackal
Though yeah genuinely
crystal arrow
that claim isnt based on anything
pine epoch
When a primal dies their core goes to the lifestream. This is ARR lore that has been brought up in interviews with koji and oda
silk cape
What are the inconsistencies we've noticed? Menphina has a loyal hound, Halone's moon has a Dalamud...
crystal arrow
What are the inconsistencies we've noticed? Menphina has a loyal hound, Halone's...
menphina has existed as a goddess for longer than dalamud
pine epoch
This lore is also why you can only have 1 primal at a time
crystal arrow
dalamud is her "loyal hound"
teal salmon
Based on the Creation Magic stuff, like there can be the Ifrit we fight and the marshmallow roasting one from Meracydia
crystal arrow
what
pine epoch
If amalja summon ifrit another group cant summon ifrit
dawn wave
huh
crystal arrow
pine epoch
But if the people of the new world have a ifrit in their culture but is a nice ifrit that roast marshmallows. That ifrit would be able to be summoned at the same time as amaljaa ifrit
crystal arrow
could also be
yknow. a different fire primal
i really dont know what you're talking about woods
dawn wave
what was the debate about again
rustic jackal
primals go lifestream
dawn wave
they sure do
pine epoch
Wrong interview I think I posted
rustic jackal
ding ding ding.
gaunt star
I'll summon ifrit's brother, ifroot
empty walrus
The debate was me stating how the Twelve can't be Primals as they go against a fundamental rule of Primals- That being when we defeat a Primal and destabilize their form, their core goes to the Lifestream.
silk cape
menphina has existed as a goddess for longer than dalamud
Yeah, but we don't know if the concept of Menphina having a doggo was created to explain Dalamud OR if Dalamud was given that name because the concept already existed.
empty walrus
Yet when we beat the Twelve they're back as if nothing happened despite their whole green glowiness.
crystal arrow
Yeah, but we don't know if the concept of Menphina having a doggo was created to...
i mean
iron birch
What are the inconsistencies we've noticed? Menphina has a loyal hound, Halone's...
Menphina having dalamund is pretty much it
rustic jackal
also possible they could’ve just tped out of there before getting actually smackered
iron birch
And even then, Dalamund exist in the phantom realm
iron birch
which leads to my theory that it is people who shape the faith and the realm
iron birch
we know that it wasnt until after dalamud that it was called her hound
We dunno that
teal salmon
We don’t even know if the “Pure Primals” that fueled the Ragnarok were much different
iron birch
We know that dalamund was named the hound, but if she had one before that is unkown
dawn wave
Yet when we beat the Twelve they're back as if nothing happened despite their wh...
did we actually “kill” them though? or merely incapacitate?
iron birch
Simply cause all twelve lore stops at allagan
dawn wave
chi egg…
iron birch
Yesn't
crystal arrow
i'm sure the dog came first. but we really dont know till they tell us
iron birch
Dalamund is for sure an allagan creation
subtle pasture
Tbf, the phantom realm itself is a grand mystery because how are these massive swells of elemental aether near perfectly hidden from the realm below
dawn wave
smadge need answers
iron birch
So the red moon existing is a glaring issue if Menphina was created before that
rustic jackal
15 days please look forward to it
iron birch
I say issue, but eh
crystal arrow
like im not arguing against the dog existing the whole time and the allagans naming the satellite after him
but
we dont know
untold gull
did we actually “kill” them though? or merely incapacitate?
We never killed them
crystal arrow
they could go the other way
silk cape
~~which leads to my theory that it is people who shape the faith and the realm~~
If the religion and the Twelve were shaped by the faithful, you'd expect they're to be more evolution and difference introduced over time, and yet we're told the gods have stayed consistent.
rain onyx
did we actually “kill” them though? or merely incapacitate?
they seem to reappear with no real issues or seemingly obvious damage
subtle pasture
Aye, for one thing, the dog isn’t red, but the lesser moon in the Heaven is
untold gull
They talk to us after the whole raid, remember
crystal arrow
well
dawn wave
if we never killed them then the primals returning to the lifestream thing is totally irrelevant
subtle pasture
Dalamud doesn’t look like Dalamud,
crystal arrow
honestly that could also mean nothing pash
subtle pasture
But is it Dalamud doesn’t look like Dalamud or does Dalamud not look like Dalamud
subtle pasture
silk cape
We don't even know if the dog is called Dalamud in the myth. We're just told Dalamud is called that.
crystal arrow
inb4 dog is the black warden
rustic jackal
If the religion and the Twelve were shaped by the faithful, you'd expect they're...
To be fair aren’t the iterations we see the gods in now very reminiscent of what they’re believed to be today
dawn wave
her dog is called dalagab actually /j
crystal arrow
disappointed that dog doesnt have a sword though
iron birch
If the religion and the Twelve were shaped by the faithful, you'd expect they're...
Well, their depiction never changed much over time
subtle pasture
What’s the other moon wolf in Norse myth
iron birch
Aside that, they're still somewhat different
crystal arrow
shoulda been dalamud
subtle pasture
Skoll and Hati…?
crystal arrow
iron birch
Rhalgar being 1 on 1 cause they apparently saw him
crystal arrow
skoll and hati
silk cape
Ladi dadi, we love to skadi
subtle pasture
iron birch
And Azeyma, Nophica and other 2 on the cards
crystal arrow
skadi is a jotunn
silk cape
We always cause trouble when we guzzle bacardi
rustic jackal
Not only statues but I guess also what they’re the gods of
crystal arrow
Halone, Rhalgar and Thalyak
more than that
empty walrus
did we actually “kill” them though? or merely incapacitate?
Yes, they faded away and even G'raha states his surprise as it looked similar to how a Primal would
crystal arrow
llymlaen
rustic jackal
It’s what they’re the gods of right now to the people from what we can see mainly
iron birch
Ye, but those statues are quite approssimatives
iron birch
We have statues of Nhald Thal, but they're not as faithful to a human shape like Halone or Rhalgar
crystal arrow
she could end up being a mermaid, for all we know.
iron birch
And we know Halone statue is different from the real deal, so
teal salmon
We have statues of Nhald Thal, but they're not as faithful to a human shape like...
Pretty similar
pine epoch
KF: Yes. <thinks> … Yes! But as I mentioned with the Phoenix, depending on the culture, there’s a different perception of what it was. Was it a god? Was it a savior? Was it evil? Let’s use Ifrit as an example, though I’m not saying this is really the case with him. The Amalj’aa look at him as an angry god that wants to purify the land with his flames. When they summon him, they pray to that type of Ifrit, and it forms. Say, in the New World, thousands of miles away, there is also the legend of Ifrit, but in the thousands of years since that original seed of myth, he’s grown into a very benevolent god that… <laughs> gives flowers to children and is the fire that roasts your marshmallows… that’s a different essence, even though it’s the same Ifrit. Those two could exist simultaneously. But if Amalj’aa summon one Ifrit and some other Amalj’aa who worship the same Ifrit try to do the same thing, they could not.
Found the quote from a previous time but not the link to the interview. Back to searching for it.
silk cape
she could end up being a mermaid, for all we know.
Merrow No. 5
crystal arrow
And we know Halone statue is different from the real deal, so
eh.
a bit
not extremely different though
do refer to this doc i made 
https://www.notion.so/sensensensen/In-Game-Portrayals-of-the-Twelve-and-Their-Shrines-16d5d7a6c1684f9b809bd83ec743ac2c
iron birch
Anyhow the fact that the gods stayed mostly the same isn't contrary to the concept that the faith shaped them in the end
tawny relic
It's not super different, she just has the visor on her helmet down when we fight her
untold gull
I mean, she looked like a valkyrie on the statues and she looked just like one in the raid
subtle pasture
Aye, which technically is her place with Althyk,
rustic jackal
She has a cute hoodie tho now
subtle pasture
They’re the ones said to have parleyed with Middy so please let us speak to them
crystal arrow
either her or cybele
untold gull
Inb4 she's just hiding her face
rustic jackal
her face looks rlly pretty
untold gull
like they're hiding nophica from us
rustic jackal
she looks like ihhhhhh
rustic jackal
A nier character lol
crystal arrow
oh yeah iddy
did you see uh
in the clip during the ultimate
did you notice althyk is mounted
iron birch
Anyway ye, twelve rapresentations stayed consistent since allagan as far as we know
rustic jackal
did you notice althyk is mounted
he’s what now
crystal arrow
he’s what now
he's riding a horse
subtle pasture
Ye, he’s got the austere emperor vibe down pat
silk cape
It's Althyk that's mounted? Hmm.
rustic jackal
Oh SICK
subtle pasture
Yeah, can see his stupid helm
iron birch
(there is also Ramuh, which is apparently Rhalgar seen by the Pixies, but oh well)
tawny relic
Austere indeed, what the fuck is he wearing
rustic jackal
gods are gods they’re allowed to look weird
iron birch
Are they allowed to have more melanin too
untold gull
Inb4 that's his body
subtle pasture
He’s doing a joint spell with his wifey, yeah
jolly sun
just saw the PLD reworrk...where is this supposed to be putting us on the Tank role spectrum now?
tawny relic
Someone post the Balance sticker
crystal arrow
on paper at least
iron birch
just saw the PLD reworrk...where is this supposed to be putting us on the Tank r...
Wait for 6.3 to know
rustic jackal
Here’s this ten page PowerPoint
crystal arrow
anyway I think Nymeia should marry me instead
ask her to sew a pretty outfit
tawny relic
We just don't know
jolly sun
somewhere nearer to gnb
hmm nice
rustic jackal
on why I’d be a better husband than althyk
crystal arrow
- i'm not your brother (no incest)
rustic jackal
hmm nice
That’s MERELY on the vague ass descriptions we saw in LL
we’re gonna get more later
iron birch
In before tic tac toe mechanic
crystal arrow
- performs well (in the kitchen)
empty walrus
Just saying Menphina has a chess board arena, and we got statues, maybe wolf moves according to the piece?
subtle pasture
Surprised there’s no groomer memes on Althyk,
rustic jackal
Oh god don’t manifest them
subtle pasture
Since he raised her from a baby, too
torpid yoke
I feel like this can only devolve
subtle pasture
Absolutely,
rustic jackal
it’s already weird but don’t persuade actually gross memes to show up to drive it home
empty walrus
Since he raised her from a baby, too
Trust me soon as they mention it, it's gonna light up like wild fire
rustic jackal
just leave it at that
subtle pasture
So just Silly God Things 
teal salmon
rustic jackal
we’re overly aware of this
silk cape
Remember Erichthonios origin story
rustic jackal
let’s not remember
teal salmon
Technically his mother was Gaia
crystal arrow
zeus couldnt restrain his libido
subtle pasture
Over half of Zeus’ children he wasn’t even in a humanoid shape when he impregnated their mothers
pine epoch
Gonna throw this interview in lore spoilers
crystal arrow
dude was so horny his headache resulted in a child
empty walrus
Only if it's the Jojo ending Idris
untold gull
Over half of Zeus’ children he wasn’t even in a humanoid shape when he impregnat...
Then there's athena 
teal salmon
looks at the Minotaur story
iron birch
On a side note, Menphina face still looks kinda weird from some angles
Ignore the Nophica circle of people trying to see her
pine epoch
she might look better in game
silk cape
dude was so horny his headache resulted in a child
Ps, that's how Athena gonna show up in Pandaemonium
crystal arrow
honestly she looks fine
viscid monolith
It looks weird at every angle
empty walrus
Indeed.
subtle pasture
(I still don’t get why there’s ice under her skirt)
viscid monolith
Using Scathach's model was a strange choice
iron birch
I think it is a combination of the wide forehead - empty eyes and small nose
rustic jackal
she’s FFXII core and I like it
teal salmon
Halone’s palace is made of frozen moonlight
empty walrus
Neat fact- Menphina has a skillet for a weapon
subtle pasture
She’s definitely ringing in ice fairy vibes,
rustic jackal
the empty eyes are good in a divinity offputting way
subtle pasture
So I hope she has a fusion with her doggo
crystal arrow
iddy am i wrong in getting like
chang'e vibes
untold gull
(I still don’t get why there’s ice under her skirt)
Really? Did you forget we have a horny playerbase?
crystal arrow
from menphina
teal salmon
the empty eyes are good in a divinity offputting way
She has pupils
pine epoch
We might get that fusion we might not
teal salmon
They just match her eye color
pine epoch
It looks like shes the final boss of the alliance raid given what we can hear from the song
silk cape
Really? Did you forget we have a horny playerbase?
Name a game that doesn't have a horny player base
rustic jackal
iddy am i wrong in getting like
chang'e vibes
Kind of yes she’s too much of a child and not at all a Chinese xiannu vibe lol but her eyes are a good step in the Moon Goddess direction
subtle pasture
They didn’t show any of her fight after Lunar Cry, I do believe 
torpid yoke
On a side note, Menphina face still looks kinda weird from some angles
She looks perfect
🥰
empty walrus
Name a game that doesn't have a horny player base
Chess
iron birch
Nah
crystal arrow
Kind of yes she’s too much of a child and not at all a Chinese xiannu vibe lol b...
ig its the crown giving me that vibe
pine epoch
but also given the Order from the elemental list
Menphina was always going to be the final boss
teal salmon
Is Nymeia right after Menphina?
rustic jackal
ig its the crown giving me that vibe
Honestly when I think of Chang’e I think of the traditional Chinese immortal fit and just same lady with long white hair with a. Few rabbits lol
pine epoch
Nymeia is the after Menphina
iron birch
Nophica, Nymeia, Halone, Menphina