archived-player-vs-player

[exotic kayak]

In my experience as a Bard, most BLMs will expose themselves when using their LB.

Marking them for death via macro and dogpiling them when they do can shut them down quickly.

[exotic kayak]

I silence the crap out of any LBing BLM on sight.

[torpid pewter]

meanwhile i do the inverse and try to crunch bards that take one step too close specifically because their silence spam is obnoxious

[graceful tulip]

i'd probably pull that

[pine anvil]

so im a little confused

pvp rank kind of reset

but no rewards given

they aren't gonna reset another time at 6.2 are they?

also, my rewards will be given at 6.2 im assuming? for the rank before the reset?

[spiral brook]

You need to claim them from the ranked NPC near the entrance of the boat

@pine anvil

[pine anvil]

oh i see

[torpid pewter]

every time the season/series enters a new phase you can talk to that guy to get rewards based on your CC rank

[spiral brook]

Just ranked seasons

[fresh hazel]

is it possible to duo-queue with a friend?

[steel nebula]

In CC? No

Frontlines you can queue with friends
Best shot if you want to play with a friend is to queue at the exact same time - not 100% but it’s possible

[wheat cargo]

Also big chance you get matched against them too

[sullen mist]

queued for cc on the wrong class

have never played monk before

do not have hotbars set up

got 2nd in damage

silver is a wild place

[sullen mist]

wolf marks is just matter of playing

you get like 70% from a loss that you do from a win

both are fine, if just marks then go for crystalline conflict

[torpid pewter]

aha, so it's not just frontline either then...

[amber escarp]

1 more win and im done with pvp

so glad

worst pvp ive ever played

[vapid flicker]

Okay is it just me or does paladin performs REALLY underwhelming?

[torpid pewter]

paladin does low damage but it's really hard to kill so you can do things like covering more fragile allies from attacks and causing enemies hit by the swords to heal people on getting attacked, in frontline they're completely obnoxious to deal with due to also having the 60% melee damage reduction bonus on top of their already high durability so it's more like they have 100k+ health... oh, and they can just turn off the damage they're taking with their lb on top of all that, which when combined with their cover means two people on a team can be completely invincible at the same time

(oh, and they also have an ogcd stun too )

tldr: pld is a "war of attrition" job, not a "big damage, massive plays" job

[visual plank]

oh i didnt know that u can also cover someone from damage when u lb as a paldin

thats good to know owo

[torpid pewter]

yeah, it gives 50% damage reduction and can be paired with your cover to give someone else your invuln as well

which is totally busted in at least one frontline map since it makes it impossible for someone to stop you from capturing objectives

[torpid pewter]

getting bh5 with mch in frontline is fun because you can just delete someone that isn't melee instantly with lb whenever you get it d:

heck, even melees still end up taking like 20k damage from bh5 mch lb so even they're not safe if you use it right

[exotic kayak]

It feels weird to have a Bronze sprout declaring RDM to be garbage in Crystalline Conflict even while the Crystal-ranked mentor is trying to explain RDM's strengths.

[visual plank]

it is worse

source: I made it the fuck up

[normal gorge]

RDM having two charges of displacement alone makes it stupid. Nevermind shit like frazzle and whatever the silence was called.

[sullen mist]

Where is this?

[exotic kayak]

Gilgamesh Novice Network.

[sullen mist]

Lol

"My score was bad and we lost"

"Clearly this is entirely on red mage for being a bad class and unbalanced with no redeeming features"

"How else can the results be explained?"

I have a 100% win rate with monk that makes it the best class duh

[torpid pewter]

to be fair pvp monk actually is pretty busted if you're not braindead about it

[patent gazelle]

Mnk is one of the best classes.

[exotic kayak]

Monk kicks ass.

Can utterly delete one person and deal serious AOE damage.

They just have a rampup period.

[sullen mist]

Not my monk

I queued in on it by accident

Barely had time to try and fix my hotbars

No time to read skills

Still got 2nd in damage after the drg and won, therefore 100% win rate = high skill player

[amber escarp]

Why is CC honestly just “who gets to spam lock the highest dps”

[normal gorge]

What

[wheat cargo]

who would have guessed that priority focusing targets to win fights is how you win a pvp match

with or without cc that doesn't really matter

because knowing your priorities is how you play anyways

[queen gyro]

Those priorities change on a second to second basis too

[exotic kayak]

Yeah.

Trying to pick a kill order based on tier lists is how you lose games.

Success in CC is all about finding and seizing opportunities to make plays and capitalize on enemy mistakes.

If that WAR has blown all their skills on their engage, punish them for it with CC and damage to blast them before they can recover.

Congrats, it's now a 5v4.

If their SAM, MNK, or NIN is trying to be cheeky and beat up your BRD while everyone else is teamfighting elsewhere, collapse on that one overextended player and turn around to fight that 5v4 now.

Did that BLM just use LB? Hunt them down via their glowy aura and make them regret pushing that button in plain sight.

[subtle hornet]

The dragoon running around with the slaughterhouse title? The enemy monk sure will use their kill combo on them 3 times

[spiral brook]

I only get sweaty against the people wearing their top 100 titles

[fresh mulch]

I'm still trying to learn priority in CC beyond healers. It always feels like a crapshoot going for tanks after. Paladins just eat so much damage

[queen gyro]

Try not to think of it as a tier list

Gotta develop an eye for “who’s the most dangerous at the moment”

That could be an enemy MCH aiming for your full LB Dragoon for example

With a Drill primed and a Marksman Spite to follow it with

Or someone who is out of position

Which NINs tend to be, because that’s their job

[fresh mulch]

I've been reading through all the ability lists to familiarize myself. Got on a win streak last night

[exotic kayak]

WAR drops surprisingly quickly after they blow their abilities.

[fresh mulch]

As a WAR main. I agree, lol

[amber escarp]

Everybody in CC drops quickly after they use their abilities

[fresh mulch]

I was trying out DRK and that was pretty fun.

[amber escarp]

It's about staggering them, knowing when you're about to be focused and put that guard up beforehand

Also Dragoons drop instantly after using cooldowns

I hate good machinists as a Dragoon

[queen gyro]

I wonder if it’s viable to just use one of your back liners as ninja bait at the start of the match, then just swat that ninja and make the game start as a 5v4

In 2/3 maps there is a high chance that NINs would approach using the side route

NINs always open with assassinate so they can’t escape when they commit

[patent gazelle]

Well i usually do open with the assassinate

But i have huton up and guard and 2 mudras ready

So if ever i do get focued hard lol i really dont die

My plan is to eithe be so much of a nuisance that i drag 1-3people out of the crystal, baiting them

Or if they ignore me i get to do free damage and support

[queen gyro]

But Huton takes one of those mudras though doesn’t it

[exotic kayak]

Returning is talking about using Huton in advance.

It lasts... 12? 15 seconds?

[queen gyro]

Oh true

[exotic kayak]

And Mudra has a 15 second CD.

[queen gyro]

I should make it a habit then

[exotic kayak]

Huton/Suiton before Guard is an amazing way to waste people's time.

Since that 12,000 damage shield is effectively multiplied by 9 given Guard's damage resistance.

[tepid pier]

The only thing is that ninja really needs to commit to what it's doing -- using huton or meisui is a great escape tool, but you lose out on a lot of damage by not using that mudra on hyosho or gokka.

[torpid pewter]

i dropped a random sage far away from their team with scattergun into air anchor stun into lb in frontline, mch has scary burst damage when used right

[patent gazelle]

Before i engage you can press mudra on spawn

By the time youre in the middle you press huton at the last second before the mudra buff falls off

Then by the time you hit assassinate you get 2 mudras ready

[tepid pier]

[patent gazelle]

10 seconds>3-4 seconds invisible = 14 seconds

Thats the whole cd of mudra 15 seconds

I was a t30 nin player so i know nin stuff the most around in here

Rotating mesui+huton as you waste peoples time is great if you can keep yourself alive

Keep em busy and let your team be in an advantage at the crystal

Turn the crystal into a 4v3

[torpid pewter]

i did that in frontline and made an entire team waste about half a minute away from objectives trying to kill me (they failed)

[patent gazelle]

Gokka is also overrated, i just use it to keep the rotation going and if people are clumping up

Youre better off using it on Raijus and Hyosho more

Specially when you can burn purifys

[torpid pewter]

hyosho is the funny ice shuriken button right

[patent gazelle]

Ye

[torpid pewter]

i love using those

[queen gyro]

Doton to cover escapes sounds good too, most areas in the game are narrow corridors

[patent gazelle]

Nah

Doton is dogshit

[queen gyro]

Is the slow too weak

[exotic kayak]

Assassinate + Hyoshi is some nice burst damage.

[patent gazelle]

The slow is strong

But like

[exotic kayak]

I've never had an encounter where Doton would be preferable though.

[patent gazelle]

At higher ranks people stand less on ground aoes

And they clump up less

[exotic kayak]

Unless you're trying to help set up an immediate wombo combo or something

[torpid pewter]

doton has the same issue as mortar but without mortar's excuse of being its own thing

[exotic kayak]

Like when my team got wiped by WAR + WHM + DRG LBs...

[patent gazelle]

Id only use it when like people are being forced to funnel into a single point

Which is rarely the case.

[queen gyro]

Area denial is really potent in CC though isn’t it

It just doesn’t translate to numbers

[patent gazelle]

Not really

Not always

[torpid pewter]

i literally just use it by accident tbh

[exotic kayak]

I'd say it's most valuable in Overtime.

[patent gazelle]

People in higher ranks rotate 1-2 people on the crystal

[exotic kayak]

SGE's LB can win games by forcing the enemy team onto the crystal and taking enormous DoT damage.

[patent gazelle]

Its rarely the case

[exotic kayak]

While locking out attempts to siege the crystal with poke damage.

[patent gazelle]

Overtime where it shines tbh

But even then theres more value in securing kills with raiju and hyosho

[exotic kayak]

DEATH IS THE BEST FORM OF CROWD CONTROL!

[queen gyro]

Crown control

[exotic kayak]

Shush.

[queen gyro]

Are you trying to kill all mentors

[patent gazelle]

The strongest area denial is like sage lb

[torpid pewter]

yes

[exotic kayak]

I am a mentor xD

[torpid pewter]

[patent gazelle]

But with smart play

People just let the crystal push a bit

And deny the value of sage lb

[exotic kayak]

SGE can replace their LB once tho.

[patent gazelle]

Yeah once

[torpid pewter]

sage lb is good in cc but only meh in fl because of how huge fl maps/teams are

[patent gazelle]

Fl balance is whatevrr

[exotic kayak]

SGE LB is annoying as hell on Onsal Hakair.

Just place that shit right on top of the S-Rank Ovoo.

[patent gazelle]

Yeah focus on getting more value out of hyosho and raiju

[queen gyro]

It’s annoying in every mode that needs you to damage an objective

[patent gazelle]

Specially raiju

[queen gyro]

Seal rock, fields of glory

[torpid pewter]

cc doesn't have a roulette

[patent gazelle]

Watching peoples purifys is key

[queen gyro]

Wanna use your LB on that objective for maximum gains

Too bad

Sage LB

[patent gazelle]

Biggest way to improve as ninja is to go in and learning how to push your limits

How much aggro you can take

[queen gyro]

Can you just field like 8 MCHs in FoG and all just LB the big crystal in mid when it spawns

[patent gazelle]

And how you can rotate yohr cds

[torpid pewter]

nin can get chonky multikills in fl with lb i know that much

[patent gazelle]

Learning also how to be sneaky and stab unsuspecting people too

[queen gyro]

They’ll never see it coming

I feel really vulnerable during my chain link opportunities

[patent gazelle]

Specially people who think they

Can just freely elixir

Specially those people

They fold a lot more when they realize the nin is watching them

Cause theyre so used to be able to freely elixir

[queen gyro]

A lot of PvP is easier to play if targetting wasn’t dogshit

[patent gazelle]

You get used to it

Yeah its annoying

[queen gyro]

I once couldn’t hit a guy elixiring in front of me because target kept going to people behind me

[west bridge]

there's a setting for this I'm pretty sure

[normal gorge]

Yeah cone targeting but then you get those situations where the person you want is right there but you can't target them because they're just slightly too left or right of you. Pick your poison, really.

[crisp lichen]

When someone hits you during chiten and your LB is up

[exotic kayak]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-death-anime-bloody-burst-gif-5177182

[queen gyro]

When the SAM is casting Zantetsuken but he has 49.99% HP

[torpid pewter]

i've lived through scamsetsuken with nothing but a 10% damage reduction and an adlo shield before d:

[exotic kayak]

I wonder, can you cancel LBs mid-cast with CC?

[queen gyro]

Up to the whim of Server tick

[limpid nexus]

I am really surprised by this new pvp. Queues are fast even at this hour in europeans servers. Every class seems so much fun. Can’t stop playing

[buoyant hatch]

The enemy samurai 1 shotted 3 of my teammates but afterwards I whitemage lb'ed + afflatus misery with smth from my dragoon teammate the 4 other enemies

[torpid pewter]

fun fact: dot-ing a drg with life of the dragon on makes it do more damage even after they get rid of it

[sterile ibex]

that is how dots work yeah

[cedar grail]

Is it too late to get to rank 25 before 6.2 for the armor?

[spiral brook]

You got a month or so

Very easily doable if you start the grind now

Crystal Conflict will be the fastest exp if queues are fast

[torpid pewter]

there's also the frontline daily roulette which can quickly boost up your rank exp progress

[cedar grail]

There is a bonus for series exp with the daily?

[torpid pewter]

i believe so, yes

[atomic narwhal]

should not have waited until now to finish my series

[errant patio]

@hasty wedge how do you correctly use DRK in PvP ? the health for damage thing is a neat idea but I feel like (In frontlines at least) the second you use shadowbringer someone is going to notice and you'll get jumped on by 5 people before you can actually take advantage of the low health = more damage

[hasty wedge]

dont use it unless ur next to a healer / in a 5v5 team fight / absolutley have to stall / limit break ready

or alternatively just use itafter jumping on low health targets

[patent gazelle]

Use it when your quietus+puddle is ready

[hasty wedge]

o rite quietus also heals

:P

[errant patio]

I see, so you mainly use your GCD's in combat then ?

[hasty wedge]

i use every button all the time except conditional buttons like heals recouperate guard and shadowbringers

[errant patio]

I meant for damage purposes but now that I think about it that really only leaves like 3 buttons

[hasty wedge]

yeah

[torpid pewter]

so on a scale of 1 to 10 how much better would frontline be if they added diminishing returns to crowd control effects (stun, silence, poly)

[warm sedge]

i thought there were invuln periods after being hit by them

[torpid pewter]

nope

you can get stunlock spammed all day and even with purify it won't take long for that brief window of immunity to wear off

[warm sedge]

at least in cc i don't think you can stun the same person immediately twice with primal rend

unless they've changed that

[torpid pewter]

i'm talking about frontline, not cc

[sullen mist]

what class are you?

i rarely have instances where get stunned, purify, then still get stunlocked to death. if you're in that position the damage kills you before your purify runs out anyways

[west bridge]

we used to have that pre 6.1

[warm sedge]

even in frontline i don't get stunlocked unless i'm getting absolutely swarmed

[wheat cargo]

well thats because you can't have 2 wars in the same party

[warm sedge]

damn channy just coming for my throat constantly lol

[wheat cargo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/837065080629100595.webp?size=48&quality=lossless

it ain't personal trust me

[subtle hornet]

Do people even get stun locked in frontlines 👀

You just get dogpiled with raw damage if you're out of position

[torpid pewter]

how anyone plays warrior in frontline is beyond me since you can't actually do what warrior does without disintegrating instantly even with the 60% damage mit passive, you have to tiptoe an invisible line and maybe pull someone out of position every now and then

[vast crag]

If the groups are decent, you won't be able to get away. Back then they have to rescue melees from getting too far, since there's no rescue now, you just get rekt usually

[torpid pewter]

which is why barring things like ninja which have a pathetically easy time going in, doing massive damage and getting out, i usually just stick to smn because even after all the nerfs it's still strong, you just can't be 100% braindead like before

[subtle hornet]

Eh, dragoon

Get some battle high, then start diving all the phys ranged/mages/healers

[west bridge]

are you trying to slam into both alliances at the same time?

I had very few problems staying alive as WAR in FL pre 6.18 so I would only assume its even easier to stay alive now

[exotic kayak]

WHM with nine deaths on my team.

Wheezing

Can't carry that.

[sullen mist]

Warrior is fine in FL though. You just can't go ham and have to disengage early

Pretty much every class plays differently in Frontline than they do in cc

You can initiate, purify the cc that comes on you, throw a couple aoes then you have to start disengaging if you're being focused

If your team isn't dogshit they've been punishing the enemy for focusing on you

[queen gyro]

It’s hilarious watching the after party of a losing Frontline match

People being salty about being left to die in Onsal Hakir after the node has been captured

[vast crag]

I just changed to SCH usually in frontline, so barely experienced other class 😹

[hasty wedge]

thats just idiots that dont read rules

every frontlines have their own set of rules about how to earn points

its the participant's job to learn every mode

[west bridge]

and risk my battle high trying to keep said people alive??

I think not

[errant patio]

how much damage is considered "good" ?

ive started to be able to not die every 3 minutes and rack up assists but getting kills by myself and dealing good damage are two things that yet alude me

[subtle hornet]

What class and what mode?

[errant patio]

im mainly playing DRK/SAM and in Frontline

tbh I forgot about CC

[subtle hornet]

Don't be the only one out of position, know when to disengage and bail to survive

Ideally in FL you don't want to die at all, because you want to accumulate battle high

You basically start doing good damage in FL when you have a few stacks of battle high

[torpid pewter]

smn literally needs bh in FL to exist because otherwise you're stuck either targeting backline enemies or doing chip damage to melees, neither of which is ideal

[subtle hornet]

Why I switched away from SMN to DRG after the FL changes

I went from BAHAMUT GO BOOM to ploop ploop chip damage

[errant patio]

ah I see, you get a stack of BH every time you hit 50 on the bar right ?

[subtle hornet]

A stack per 20 actually

[errant patio]

ah wack

[subtle hornet]

Gain 2 for assist, 10 for kill

Halved when you die

[errant patio]

I see

[subtle hornet]

But I don't play SAM or DRK, so I can't advise more on the specifics of those classes

But the best thing you can do in FL for damage? Just don't die

[wheat cargo]

you can actually just see this on your buffs as you get those stacks of 20 BH

the buff changes shape

[errant patio]

ah I see. I didnt notice that

[errant patio]

to be honest, im thinking of levelling SMN/SCH and considering how easy to use they are in PvE and how good they are in PvP

[subtle hornet]

Not necessarily in FL after the changes now

They might be able to shit out aoe damage, but it's useless when that damage doesn't lead to kills

Poor SMN was nerfed hard

[errant patio]

rip, how are they in CC, i've yet to try that out but I feel like FL is a better place to start off with to learn my class because there individual performance isnt all too important

[subtle hornet]

Melee are actually in a good place in FL now, they get an innate 60% damage reduction which makes them stupidly tanky

If you know how to be observant and disengage, only those 1 shot moves can kill you

[errant patio]

I noticed, I feel like playing a tank is kinda dumb because aside from Invul that DRG is almost as tanky as you are and also does way more damage

tanks do have neat CC though

[sullen mist]

Sch/smn are still good in frontlines but they used to be way too good

Pre nerf they never had to target priority

Just hit the first guy you see

Do mondo damage

Now, there's a bigger emphasis on hitting the pack of squishies

Had one today where the other sch on my team was just max range biolysis poke on the closest enemy then run back

I got in, ignored the tanks, dropped my spreads on their healers and ranged dps, occasionally a ninja/samurai/monk. Avoided tanks as best i could. End of the match, the other sch had 650k dmg, still not terrible. I did 2.2mil and had bh5.

[torpid pewter]

which is why i try to pull/bind scholars moving anywhere towards me or my team immediately so they get punished for it

[prime lark]

is there pvp gear past 60? or do you just wear pve stuff?

[buoyant hatch]

Gear does not matter in pvp. Everyone's stats are fixed

[spiral brook]

Yeah I remember doing like 3m damage before the nerfs as Scholar

[vast crag]

SCH is still good, lol

[torpid pewter]

yes, biolytic bots are unfortunately still annoying

[vast crag]

😁

punishing people who doesn't abide the rules of social distancing

[spiral brook]

I love social distancing -Bard

[west bridge]

rightfully deserved

[spiral brook]

Goodbye Crystal Conflict

[errant patio]

that is one deep fried image

[spiral brook]

It reflects the rage I feel

[patent gazelle]

cwystawwime coimfwip

[torpid pewter]

me in frontline: "let's not go straight into their spawn base"
rest of my team except like one or two people: does it anyway

[sullen mist]

damn

my frontlines team was fantastic

now i'm doomed to bad teams for two weeks

[errant patio]

thanks for the advice, not the best but I did a lot better than my previous matches

[subtle hornet]

Now get those deaths down to 0

Go forth, and MURDER

[errant patio]

[queen gyro]

If you see your death is inevitable or that it might be necessary for the objective, try to waste as much of their time as possible.

Sometimes you have to be that one WAR holding off a bunch of dudes at the bridge of Onsal Hakir so they dont reach your buddies capturing the oovoo.

I feel like FL is more a test of your macro abilities than micro. At the very least, it sure pays off a lot more.

[torpid pewter]

unfortunately a couple people having good macro skill and everyone else being disciples of billybob14 the level 20 lancer sprout usually = losing anyway

[sullen mist]

I had a team this morning with excellent instincts

So yes, macro is the way

They knew how to fight, how to push local advantages, how to mass disengage

When 10 of you roll up on a 5v5 for example, you don't actually want to dismount

A few should dismount and tilt the fight

A few others should stay mounted and cut off their escape path

The ninja purifies the stun and shukuchis back towards his base, except a mounted samurai and summoner are both running next to him saying "hey where you going?"

"Oh you're running? Nice. How long until purify wears off?"

[vast crag]

yeah, for frontline it's easier if you open your big map all the time

that minimap isn't enough to see what's currently happening in the map

[errant patio]

oh sure, on this specific map for the thing where everyone goes to the middle for points, an enemy DRK intentionally lept into our group while we were coming up the bridge, and due to the fact that like 10 people went after him the rest of us were able to get hardly any points from the thing

it was a really good strat on their side but damn it was kinda annoying to see everyone take the obvious bait

[warm sedge]

won by two points LMAO

[torpid pewter]

i pulled some dumb overextending nin off the seal rock pillar with blota d:

[warm sedge]

pulling people off the cliff with blota will never get old

[torpid pewter]

the true lb of war: pulling people off of cliffs

[torpid pewter]

also arguably one of the few actual ways of killing ninjas in an uncoordinated setting given that they have like 20 ways of getting out of a situation for free

[errant patio]

my DMG was less since I was playing safer but this time I got 0 deaths and hit battle high 4

the trick I found was to run away if the enemies group was bigger than yours at the objective

[subtle hornet]

Now get 0 deaths and murder

In general, yeah

[errant patio]

Indeed

[subtle hornet]

Sometimes depends on their skill

If it's late game and they're on BH1, feel free to go ham

They probably can't kill you lol

[errant patio]

also I finally got the trick down to using SAM's LB correctly, managed to hit the OHK on a few enemies without dying immediately after as well

[errant patio]

true

[sullen mist]

Had a good frontlines ruined because we pinched adders and wiped them when every team was around 500 pts each and then they spent the entire rest of the match trying to rush our spawn and our points even when there were 2 other points midway between them and maelstrom, and our points were between us and mael

They literally spent almost 10 minutes just mindlessly zerging us in no man's land

[subtle hornet]

Good old revenge mode

[torpid pewter]

got my first triple-commend game in frontline... by spamming biolytic and getting bh5 while barely ever interacting with the enemy. oh, gee, i wonder if this is still broken or not

i barely even play pvp scholar

[sullen mist]

Commends kind of dont matter in fl, people leave so fast if you get up to piss and come back you have 3 comms

And if you just biolytic and ran away and got bh5, your team was actually good at fighting

Repeat that exact strategy and sooner or later you get a team where you go 1-0-20 over 20 minutes, stuck at bh2 because they dont know how to fucking fight

[torpid pewter]

ok but also, scholar spam alongside melee aoe lb spam isn't really "good at fighting" and you missed my point there

you shouldn't be able to get bh5 while barely having to directly interact with enemies beyond exped>bio>spread>retreat, zero risk for maximum reward is bad

[tepid pier]

The risk is that you are playing a job with zero mobility tools or cc, confident melees can (and should) jump the backline and wail on the squishy healers

If they're not doing that now that sch's numbers are under control, that's their problem

[torpid pewter]

ok but every time i see a "confident melee" do exactly that they disintegrate in half a second from cc spam galore

and then the damage they did manage to do, if any because lol instant cast adlo, gets healed off in a single button press

[obsidian hamlet]

Hey guys, do you know the war rotation for 1v1?

[torpid pewter]

...pvp has a rotation?

[subtle hornet]

That's why you only dive when you have BH2 or BH3 at the minimum, any less and it gets healed off easily

Obviously that relies on your team actually getting kills in the first place

[tepid pier]

Just jump in and kill with 6+ tanks

Ezpz

[tepid pier]

Unless you're dueling in the wolves' den, warrior really shouldn't be 1v1ing. A lot of the value in its kit drops off when you're alone -- warrior thrives in a teamfight.

If you are doing wolves den duels, that is firmly outside my wheelhouse.

[sullen mist]

You didn't get bh5

Your team got it for you

A full power biolysis on a melee does like 15k dmg now over 18 seconds

Them dying in that time frame means your team made up the other 35-45k damage, plus whatever they healed through recuperate and skills

If your team is smart and good, and they are overrunning the enemy in every fight (maybe youre fighting an idiot team that splits between two locations) then everyone is raking in the battle hunger.

[west bridge]

tagging everyone with a dot is literally the only thing sch has going for it in fl

[sullen mist]

Yeah, and when no one follows up

U get 0 bh

Literally my seal rock yesterday

I was highest dps in the entire frontlines

I kept circling around the melee and blasting the backline with enhanced biolysis

Rest of the time I was like 2 steps behind my melee throwing broil on any ranged that I saw and mummification on any melee trying to initiate, healing our tanks

I still capped at bh3 because my team couldn't confirm a kill

0 deaths

[torpid pewter]

if you put it on a non-melee first and then spread it, it does way more than that, i was getting hit by someone's biolytic as warrior for like 3800 per second with nothing else on me

[sullen mist]

Dots tick every 3 seconds

[torpid pewter]

3 seconds, whatever

[sullen mist]

And thats not how melee dmg reduction works

Its flat on all sources.

[west bridge]

getting hit with a non dr bio doesn't make you take the non dr damage

[sullen mist]

The only spreading trick is hitting a non guarding target then spreading it to a guarding target

[torpid pewter]

well w/e, once they get rid of the 60% dr we're probably swinging right back to aoe spam meta anyway unless they do a bunch of other stuff so it won't really matter

[west bridge]

what's the problem though murking on people is the best way to play fl

[sullen mist]

Its actually even lower now, it's 27k before 10% healer dmg reduction and 60% melee resistance

You're barely cracking 10k on a melee

[torpid pewter]

y'know, it's almost like you didn't even read what i said about getting hit for 3800 per tick earlier...

[sullen mist]

Its not 3800 per tick

[torpid pewter]

yes it was

[sullen mist]

Not in frontlines

[torpid pewter]

i saw the number on MY SCREEN

[sullen mist]

A full power is 4500 with 0 DRs

[torpid pewter]

not you

i KNOW it was 3800 because i had to read it

multiple times

if what you're saying were true that should never happen, but it did

ergo, something allows it to bypass DR entirely in some situations and i'm not sure what

because the next one i got hit by only did like 800 or something small like that

[sullen mist]

You use onslaught, they have galvanize buff, w/e.

They could have other team buffs that snapshot

[tepid pier]

just kill the scholar

[sullen mist]

You holding one high end outlier at the standard isn't my problem

If anything I'm totally fine with the current state of biolysis

Its the other moves that are hot trash

I don't mind that you can't instantly melt a line of melee with 4 scholars anymore with biolysis because that's dumb, and the spread range is huge compared to other aoe

The problem is once a sch expends their enh biolysis, their damage is in the absolute shitter for 15 seconds

You're barely tickling a melee

Can't even scratch the paint off a tank

[torpid pewter]

for some reason they love giving magic jobs at least one move they have to use in melee and scholar's is uhh... it exists??? i mean yeah if they're about to spam heal it's nice but why is it so tiny aghhhh

[sullen mist]

I thought you said adlo erased the damage from melee

[torpid pewter]

it doesn't erase the damage from you now trying to pick apart what i say, apparently

[sullen mist]

That big dick uh... 7% heal

No one is forcing you to use mummification, if you're just bio and running then when would you ever feel pressured to use it

Its not like machinist

[west bridge]

I guess you can use mumm to troll a drk??

[sullen mist]

They get forced to bioblaster

[torpid pewter]

yes i know that, i play mch a lot in pvp

i don't hate bioblaster i just wish it wasn't mandatory to get to the rest of the stuff

[sullen mist]

Well, mummification isn't mandatory

Not with the playstyle you're espousing

[torpid pewter]

i'm not "espousing" anything i'm complaining on an online messageboard

that's nothing special

[sullen mist]

Even though I play a far more aggressive scholar than you I still don't mummification on cd

Its schs only offensive ogcd

So it's a target of opportunity thing

Drk dives your line? Mummification him, switch to targeting their backline

Ninja goes for an assassination, drk comes down from jump, Sam just used his LB. Clap them with the cone and carry on.

[torpid pewter]

i've seen so many people fall for scamsetsuken that i try to bait sams into using it if i see them trying to go for it at this point just so nobody else has to deal with it

[sullen mist]

Sch has no gapclose, no cc, no disengage. Chasing is super dangerous without awareness, and mummification is basically melee range

I bait Sams with their shield up if I have an adlo

[torpid pewter]

i keep seeing them run in, turning on the instant kill debuff and then immediately chasing after the first person to get hit by it, usually into the rest of the team which is hilarious

because the second they try it they forget everything else exists, they just keep wanting that free kill

it's even funnier if they do get it and the guy had a shield or something that stopped them from dying

[queen gyro]

Gotta love that random DRG moment of backflipping over a huge cliff for no damage but someone jumps after me looking for a free kill and they took all the fall damage

[spiral brook]

[errant patio]

I have mastered the art of not dying in FL

now I just need to get my damage up

[thorn quail]

how are people doing 650+k dmg in frontline as bard? I always end up at 360k mark

looking at the person they had 2 deaths while I had 3,

I dont feel like I had that much downtime in fights..

[buoyant hatch]

Hoping they adress this crazy melee dmg reduction soon

[wheat cargo]

slamming your aoes into a large pile of people usually pads your damage a lot more

apex arrow and blast arrow into large groups

[subtle hornet]

When the deaths happen matter too

2 deaths at the start with minimal battle high matters less, compared to 3 deaths spread throughout the match

[spiral brook]

making sure to target the ranged/casters/healers instead of melee also helps a good amount

[torpid pewter]

focusing healers in particular, as always, is optimal (it is pvp after all d:)

you can also silence them as bard to make it harder for them to do their job and, by extension, possibly get other people on their team killed

[unborn kernel]

Save your line aoes for packs. Cheese them numbers!! Lol

[glad ravine]

Each Friday until 6.2 there is going to be a FL Q Sync spread across all 3 NA DCs!
(Primal -> Crystal -> Aether)

PvPrimal is going first with an Onsal Q Sync tonight at <t:1659747600:f>

They are also holding a Photo & Clips Raffle in their #challenges channel.
Prizes:
x1 $30 Mogstation Item of Choice
x1 Megashiba Mount
x1 Fantasia
x1 Chicken Attire
10 million
5 million
5 million

Full details here:
On https://discord.gg/pvprimal in
#933126287118184478 message

Raffle submissions will open along with their musical guest, The Ryoka Sisters, at <t:1659745800:f>.

https://discord.gg/pvprevival?event=1003395754343276625

[torpid pewter]

first frontline match i get of the day and it's a bunch of random people watching me die to spam as i try to get away doing absolutely nothing to help as they stand within helping distance... yeah no i'm not even gonna bother staying with a team that bad tbh :\

[torpid pewter]

...and then i get the complete opposite of that the next game with my team almost perfectly coordinated without saying much of anything
also i figured out only during that match that the shields sch give aren't really meant for defense, they're actually damage boosts

like yeah it's not gigantic explosions left and right but i could definitely see the damage boosts and whatnot were actually having a pretty big impact on the group's dps

[vapid flicker]

Okay little question: Maybe my eyes betray me but in the last matches in Frontline i think i see some paladins which use cover on capturing points?

[amber escarp]

Im gonna boost one job for PvP. I heard Ninja is more tanky than tanks is this true?

[sullen mist]

A person covered by a pld using his invul takes no damage, cannot be crowd controlled and cannot be interrupted

[vapid flicker]

wow... that sounds absolutly intended? xD

[sullen mist]

So on seal rock it lets them effortlessly take/decap a point and on onsal hakir it let's you capture a contested point 100%

Its broken as fuck on onsal

But pvp move sets were designed for crystalline conflict

Not frontline

[queen gyro]

Sounds pretty borked on CC too

Just let your black mage freely turret

[vapid flicker]

Yep because on onsal the cap is permanent while on other maps the points are always moving towards another team. Never understood this on Onsal. Its really annoying.

Was on a match on Onsal and i really was confused how literally every player was in the mid and it was a battlefield and somehow we were managed to capture the point. Now i understand why.

[crimson bobcat]

it can be interrupted by dnc and rpr lb

[sullen mist]

Its only a few seconds and requires both cover and pld lb, not really that crazy in cc

[sullen mist]

went 7-2-33 in frontlines, did 3m dmg

both my deaths

mch crit chainsaw

[torpid pewter]

the funny 3%

[torpid pewter]

daily frontline was so easy that i literally could just warp into the middle of the entire enemy team as reaper and just... lb

and it worked every time too

also reaper with pld on the same team is hilarious since your super-fast lb attacks let you get a ton of free healing off the debuff pld can apply

[exotic kayak]

There's no value in boosting jobs because everyone is on an even playing field.

It doesn't take long to level Rogue and unlock Ninja.

[torpid pewter]

boosting for pvp

[upbeat wagon]

Is there a way to reclaim the Archfiend Armor set from the PvP rewards? I got rid of it thinking it wouldn't be useful in any glams and thinking I could just get it back from a Calamity Salvager anyway, turns out I was wrong on both counts

[errant patio]

hit BH5 for the first time, we had a really well co-ordinated team this time around, there were like 5 of us at BH5 and we just steamrolled towards the end of the match

still need to hit that 1 mil though

I used all my LB's executing tanks and healers xD

instead of throwing it into a crowd for beeg damage

[torpid pewter]

both times i used reaper earlier i got bh5, it seems pretty strong rn considering how f a s t it can get lb back

[torpid pewter]

half my team catches a nin way out of position, he lives because 60% free mit on a scouting armor, high mobility job is fair and balanced :\

[rocky shale]

Hmmmm…Having death count is inevitable, no? it is possible to run 0 deaths, but some people stay longer and sacrifice for their sake of points

I always try to stay alive and press Return to check the base after killing the entire enemy team

[subtle hornet]

Why sacrifice yourself if you're the competent one

Let other people be the training dummy is my motto in FL

[rocky shale]

[subtle hornet]

If they're going to have 4 deaths anyway, what's one more 👀

[rocky shale]

DRGs always get kills and damage dealts

[subtle hornet]

Compared to a death on yourself knocking yourself down from BH5 to BH2

[rocky shale]

Then back off with elude jump hoping you don’t get draw in track from MNKs

Whatcha think about stuns

Should pvp add 2-3 seconds Stun resistance?

[torpid pewter]

i personally have been advocating for diminishing returns on statuses over the course of a minute, if only to stop stun/poly/silence death loops because purify only seems to work half the time anyway (i.e. you use it, it does nothing and you get no 5 second grace period and die as a result)

[sterile ibex]

well it only gives the 5sec immunity when you cleanse something with it

kinda wish it gave the immunity on use and not just when you cleanse something but still

[torpid pewter]

thing is, latency can completely screw you over because if the purify comes out "too late" from the server's end you get no 5 second immunity even if you used it while being stunned/silenced/whatever

[sterile ibex]

simply owned

[torpid pewter]

it's the same nonsense as mch not being able to do an optimal rotation if their latency is even a bit off

on the other end of the spectrum it's really annoying trying to use a status on someone only to have them immediately burn it off with purify and run away scot-free (hello ninja)

so for that... in frontline at least, i think it should have double the current duration of purify's cooldown but also always make it give you the immunity even if you don't cure a status with it

[sterile ibex]

well fleeting is a dash so there's not really running away from a nin in most cases

[queen gyro]

DRGs are much harder to chase than NINs imo

[lament basalt]

Latency is a nightmare for pvp healing, so many times I'll get a heal off on my screen but the damage has already resolved on the server and they're dead with a wasted CD/charge

And I'm only on like 75-100ms

[peak egret]

What world has quick Frontline ques right now? My home world is Hyperion and it has 30min+ wait time that never pops. I've been waiting for over an hour.. 🤬

[spiral brook]

queues are based on your datacenter.

It's also the dead of night for north america, so.......

Not many people are queueing up at 3-6am on a Monday morning.

[peak egret]

What if I visit another data center?

[spiral brook]

probably the same thing

You're still playing with essentially the same time-zones' worth of people.

4-7am on Primal will likely be just as empty as 4-7am on Aether or Crystal.

[sullen mist]

Yeah 3am is the ass end of never

I'm on aether so same DC, I had a 5min queue give or take at midnight

[torpid pewter]

"yes, let's all walk into the enemy base as one and literally spoon-feed them the win as the third team blocks off the only sane direction to go, that's a great idea"

[amber escarp]

interesting.i keep getting in top 4 in healing in frontline

[stone kindle]

my team choked so hard when they are ahead.

[untold dragon]

can anyone tell me how this performance is? i am new in ffxiv and even newer in pvp, i dont know what is good or bad based on the numbers? could anyone explain me or give me an advice on it?

[torpid pewter]

13/2/32 as a drk? pretty good from the looks of it... the only thing i'd say is to tone down the dying since losing half your battle high is big oof but other than that it looks like you've got things down pretty nice

also keep in mind that frontline is much more focused on team performance rather than individual performance like in cc

[untold dragon]

yeah i wasnt focused on my performance, i was more helping the team, beeing the tank, go in, push people off, hold them back or rush in and be killing and jumping through the whole battlefield. i also did some cc i believe like 3 matches some weeks ago, i was rushing things and making short games bc of my greed w drk, well that greed is good in away but i still need to avoid dying, i died bc i got somehow one shoted 2x in that frontline match

[torpid pewter]

did you hit a samurai who gave you a debuff immediately after hitting them or did you fall below 50% without your invuln active while a nin was around?

[untold dragon]

my hp was full

and just blub

dead

it was a team fight and many others in my team died aswell

at the same time

[sterile ibex]

yeah most def sam

[untold dragon]

reaaly? their debuff is that strong?

or their lb

[sterile ibex]

their lb is a 2min base cd
basically if they pop their defensive cd, for the next 5sec if you hit them you get a debuff on you for 3sec that has the lb straight up insta kill their target and everyone else around them with the debuff

[untold dragon]

naniii

sounds

VERRRYYYYYYY GOOOOOOOOOOOD

amaziing!

sam sounds like lots of fun

are they good aswell without the lb or thats the only outstanding thing on them?

[sterile ibex]

their main thing (i'd assume) in frontlines is just being melee which gives them 60% mit for god knows why
and having a lot of aoe, letting them just pepper everyone

and also in frontlines you cant track what the sam has as well as you can in cc

and there just being more players means more potential sams which makes it super awkward to hit literally anything half the time

[untold dragon]

sounds pretty easy to be an good sam then?

in frontlines atleast

i mean to deal high dps and chop a lot

[torpid pewter]

samurai lb does have a couple weaknesses, it only tries to instantly kill people who have the debuff active which is on a 30s cd and requires the sam to be hit, it also doesn't take into account things like shields (meaning if they "instant kill" a shielded target, the shield will stop them from dying by how much the shield covered) and stuff like pld invuln which can completely ignore it

not to mention the cd on the lb itself is also very long so you can't just spam it all day either

[untold dragon]

but still that lb is game changing if used right and its to hard to focuse on countering people if there are to many u cant pay attention to the sam

i believe the best thing i can do is just to look out for their debuff, tbn or guard and hope to not die? or counter lb w mine

[torpid pewter]

which is why i usually like to single out scamsetsuken abusers first and foremost so they have someone hassling them the whole time preventing them from doing any of their cool montage tricks d:

[untold dragon]

sounds logic, but what i hv heard of are there many classes that are prioritised to be focused or killed first bc of their cc and lb?

[torpid pewter]

there are a few, yes, in particular backliners (i.e. jobs without the stupid tankiness that all the melees get) tend to get focused down first simply because you actually can damage them in a meaningful way most of the time

[untold dragon]

as a drk i am more looking out for the amount of players in an area and where i can jump in to get a weak point, to cc them etc, i dont believe i am capable and should be focused on single targeting player since shadowbringers is an line aoe, to optimize dps and killing potential i should more focuse on the mass?

[torpid pewter]

i especially love going after scholars first because getting hit by BiOlYtIc for the billionth time and having my damage nerfed by 10% for most of the game because of it isn't exactly fun

[untold dragon]

oh no

i just rmb dueling an good scholar pvp friend of mine

that are bad exp

xd

anyways thank you @torpid pewter and @sterile ibex for the talk and information, glad for it and apricate it, have a great and good day, cya!

[torpid pewter]

bye d:

[exotic kayak]

It's very funny to watch a SAM run into a whole Alliance for cheesy kills.

Then watch the SAM get CC'd before they can get Zantetsuken off.

[torpid pewter]

samurais who need zantet to kill probably don't deserve the kills anyway d:

[sullen mist]

In frontlines

The priority target is whoever is low, unless it's a tank

Good players just bypass the tanks and go for injured melee or ranged

If ninja weren't so fucking hard to kill they'd be a priority target too, but as is there's very little recourse to kill one who purifies a stun, shukuchis out and sprints during his 5s no cc window

[west bridge]

most players with 2 braincells in fl can spot a sam trying to fish a chiten kill from 100 malms away

[sterile ibex]

that assumes the average player has more than 0 braincells

[west bridge]

those are the easy ones to bait

[sterile ibex]

that's also like
half the match

[west bridge]

I've only died to chiten twice

once because I didn't know on patch day

and 2 because I aoe'd someone next to the sam

[sterile ibex]

i think i've died to it a few times because i got server ticked

[west bridge]

I've died way more to drg and nin lb's than a sam lb

[sterile ibex]

ironically i havent directly died to drg lb outside of 1 time

just the dumb amount of damage it deals on point

[west bridge]

guard won't protect you against sam lb fyi

[west bridge]

ast juiced drg lb

[sterile ibex]

ast in cc

[untold dragon]

didnt know before that sam is able and focused on doing that xd

[untold dragon]

thanks for the info

[sterile ibex]

oh yeah

[west bridge]

I mean the floor for sam players both pve and pvp is pretty low lets be real

[sterile ibex]

you can lb to counter but generally most of the time you're fine

better to use it for the damage on multiple targets than countering a possibility

[untold dragon]

yyeah for sure

[west bridge]

but usually if you see a sam trying to dive a backline chances are they are trying to fish a chiten, and it's a pretty obvious tell when they use it. So you can bait it and then CC them after

[untold dragon]

hmm as drk i am spaming aoe lines so ofc i would hit one, but if i would pay more attention searching sam at 2min/4min/6min.. marks i will avoid it and pay in general more attention to obv. plays

[west bridge]

well at least in frontlines there's no way you're going to be able to tell if a sam has lb or not

you try to tell based on how aggressive they're playing

[untold dragon]

yep yep

[west bridge]

but if its power play classes you want drk, drg, ast, and whm are pretty fantastic and setting up alliance wiping plays

and WAR

[untold dragon]

perfect

i do love them in pve aswell

so it would fit

[sullen mist]

Tfw Sam dives your team in cc and everyone splits

Then I hit him with broil and he LBs me

But I had an adlo shield

Then he dies

[west bridge]

like poetry

[sullen mist]

You can see the braincells ticking

"Ngaaaah must use LB"

[west bridge]

/a <se.5> Please be aware that I am about to use one of my core class combos, which is Hissatsu: Chiten -> Zantetsuken. <wait.1>
/a When I use Hissatsu: Chiten, it reduces my damage taken by TWENTY FIVE (25) PERCENT (%) and afflicts enemies with Kuzushi. <se.1> <wait.1>
/a If I Zantetsuken an enemy with Kuzushi, they will INSTANTLY DIE. <wait.1>
/a It is BENEFICIAL FOR THE TEAM if we GROUP the ENEMIES and KEEP ME ALIVE. <wait.1>
/a Please let me do my own thing and help me bait as many enemies together as possible <wait.1>
/a I am using Hissatsu: Chiten NOW. <se.9> <wait.2>
/a There are THREE SECONDS left until I Zantetsuken. <se.1> <wait.1>
/a There are TWO SECONDS left until I Zantetsuken. HELP ME I'M PROBABLY CC'D <se.6> <wait.1>
/a THERE IS ONE SECOND UNTIL I ZANTETSUKEN. PLEASE WATCH ME KILL ALL OF THESE ROULETTERS <se.1> <wait.1>
/a <se.6> I have used my ultimate ability, Zantetsuken. Thank you for your cooperation; you may hold your applause. I will be doing this again in NINETY SECONDS. <se.6>

[sterile ibex]

90 🤨

[west bridge]

I think it's assuming your team is in 3rd place in frontlines

since your lb charges at different rates depending on what place your team is in

which lets be real, chances are your team will be in third place

[queen gyro]

I have had

So many games

Where my team and another team are neck and neck in score nearing victory

And then the third team that is like 200 points behind suddenly wins

[sullen mist]

we won last night in that fashion

we were behing by like 200 the whole match

then the last big ice spawned and our team went all in, with some tanks stalling near the choke

and both other teams got to that choke, started fighting our tanks, then started fighting each other

and we got all the points from big ice and won

[queen gyro]

How viable is it for a squad of Dragoons in Seal Rock or Cartenau to just LB en masse into objectives?

[spiral brook]

With a decent amount of battle high, extremely.

They’re basically an AoE machinist LB

Add in some debuffs and a CC or two to keep people grouped up, and you can clear whole parties.

[queen gyro]

Plus unlike other melee they won’t get CC’d or nuked before the damage lands

And objectives can’t use Guard

[tepid pier]

Replacing one of the four dragoons with a dark knight leads to some real nasty stuff

Salted earth is a very strong initiation for aoe combos

[spiral brook]

^

[west bridge]

DRG, AST, DRK, and WHM is the holy quartet for alliance wiping in FL

[mortal pivot]

What are queue times like for you guys? I'm seeing 30+ min currently. Last time I checked a few weeks ago queues were under 5 min.

[spiral brook]

You’re out of prime time

It’s around 11pm-2am on a Wednesday night

Not much people playing

[mortal pivot]

ah, okay thanks. I hope so, I very much enjoy this new PvP

Would be a huge bummer if people stopped playing altogether

[unborn kernel]

Every day after work I get 1 min or less queues. (3pm - 9pm pacific)

[amber escarp]

Starting from bronze is gonna be pure pain. Not sure if I’ll bother trying to get to crystal with the new demotion system. High rank is gonna be even more salty

[queen gyro]

What it’s meant to address is the fact that people who get to Crystal just throw games because they’ve nothing to gain

putting them in their own bracket just multiplies the problem really

[amber escarp]

If people are in crystal and still playing matches I’d assume they actually want to rank up Crysta and maybe get a top 100 reward because otherwise they’d have nothing to gain

[viral rune]

does season 3 start the day of the patch? so the 23rd?

[patent gazelle]

Starting from bronze shouldnt be that bad honestly

Youve done it once you can do it again

[subtle hornet]

At least this means that lower tier queues will actually pop

Trying to push from a low rank in series 2 was a pain because all the decent players aren't there

Plus the dead hour queues legit died on day 2 lmao

[amber escarp]

I think it might start on a mid patch update like last time

[sullen mist]

Late pushing is a coinflip

You can end up beating up noobs

And getting ez streaks

You can also get those same noobs on your team every placement match

[queen gyro]

Had a Seal Rock last night where my team couldn’t even break three digits in the whole match

Only four people even knew what objectives were

[tepid pier]

If your team kills the enemies, you won't ever need to learn what objectives are.

[fast wasp]

[visual plank]

Will the next series have new rewards like for crystal trophies?

[spiral brook]

Unknown

[bright bolt]

That assumes that your team knows how to coordinate and execute a burst and both your opponents team doesn’t know how to press a heal button.

[tepid pier]

Just kill the enemy team

[steel nebula]

Just bop em and they’ll eventually go away if you’re lucky

[bright bolt]

Former is less realistic since it’s easier to press a button to cap an objective than pressing buttons to kill someone. Latter is surprising realistic since a lot of people don’t press their heal button.

[bright bolt]

Wish I could. Feels like it takes 2-4 players to actually bop someone to death unless there is a huge BH difference, lb is ready, or the person being bopped is afk

[steel nebula]

This isn’t me trying to flex but I usually never have a problem I think it’s just understanding how competent who youre fighting, how many you’re fighting and then your own personal ability to execute and plan a bit ahead

I think expecting to always get KOs isn’t the right mindset and just having a better idea of engagement

[subtle hornet]

Honestly, the murder strat became less valid with the latest FL changes

People, especially melees, are just too tanky now to win just from murdering

[steel nebula]

I do play GNB more so it’s pretty to get some early sauce going when you Junction a DPS since it’s better for early bursts before junctioning a tank

I don’t play GNB on CC to have any say on that strategy but it’s good to use before everyone actually does scary amounts of damage with BH

[bright bolt]

Fair, I usually end up on the high end of kills on the team I’m on but I find that I usually spend early game on harassing enemies and dps overall instead of kills. Then once I have lb ready, I weigh our current team placing with current opportunity. NIN lb can surprisingly swing things drastically when things line up.

[steel nebula]

End of the day you’re gonna have to accept in pretty much any competitive game that you’ll have ups and downs and it’s better to gauge and improve yourself so then not only are you mechanically competent but then you develop confidence to become a shotcaller which should help with win rates

[sullen mist]

Nins and dragoons actually have high kill rates

Ranged have high assist rate but not kills

[bright bolt]

True, but god I suck as a shotcaller atm since I accidentally get blinded by battle lust at times. Also, a bit tricky for me to make detailed calls in the moment.

[steel nebula]

You’ll learn over time it’s not a skill you get over night

[sullen mist]

I'm consistently getting high bh, and pretty much always top 5 total dmg dealt in the frontlines

[steel nebula]

I usually prefer to let whoever starts doing it first have a go at it until things are looking shakey then I do correction calls

[sullen mist]

But my KDA ratio is usually like 3-1-30

Because sch

Has no kill confirm

[steel nebula]

Time to pull up a random pic I have to boast 😏

End of the day you are contributing so you shouldn’t look down at your assists

Consistently being the difference maker for your teammates to guarantee picks is useful in its own right

[sullen mist]

I know I'm fine at frontlines

[bright bolt]

Fair, learning how to be a decent NIN in a medium battlefield took a while. But feels like I might want to master the job a bit first so I can take it to pvp sync events.

[sullen mist]

But I don't contribute actually scoring kills

[bright bolt]

Like the calls they give out there are insane

[sullen mist]

Just setting them up

[steel nebula]

Could get into the habit of marking enemies too

[sullen mist]

The difference between a good and bad scholar is picking the right targets. When you hit the squishies with your DoTs you set them up for ninja/monk/drg dives that score kills

[bright bolt]

It’s fine. You help set up so the NIN or DRG can go on a 10 man killing spree. If you helped me out once, thanks for that too since there’s a huge difference between getting help and getting actively impeded.

[sullen mist]

Which gives your team a body count advantage to finish off their melees

[bright bolt]

^

[sullen mist]

The bad sch just tag the Frontline tanks

And do all of like 10k dmg with their dot

Pre nerf sch was too good in that you melted melee almost as easily as you melted ranged

I don't mind where biolysis is right now, but the mitigation up on melee and dmg penalty on healers makes us only tickle outside of biolysis spreads

Discord lag lmao

Anyways tanks don't even notice when I broil them

It does like 1000 dmg

Of their 60k

That's kind of stupid

[bright bolt]

I mean, I was a okay SCH for a while post nerf, but the problem felt like I needed someone else to help clean up and that didn’t happen sometimes. NIN has so much utility and a broken lb that it faster to get BH5 and just use their aoe to put out more damage sometimes.

[steel nebula]

Nin is a little dumb for what it has

[sullen mist]

That's kind of where I'm coming from

[bright bolt]

Which is one of the biggest feel bads when playing a support job anywhere. If you have bad teammates, the whole process gets kinda awkward

[sullen mist]

Healers and casters can NOT perform in small skirmish

[steel nebula]

Gonna start playing pvp soon cuz yall kinda got me hyped up

[sullen mist]

Had a pld try to steal our base on ice map before

[sullen mist]

I engaged him as sch to prevent the decap

While waiting for teammates to respawn

[steel nebula]

oh wait that isnt a gnb pic

[sullen mist]

It was pretty quickly a 4v1

[steel nebula]

Besides the point, that's like an average game for me. So I will take the melee buffs I can get 😛

[sullen mist]

It took us a full minute to kill him

Because we were all ranged

So we had a 60%+ dmg penalty

[bright bolt]

If anything, if you’re harassing to cap if lucky, I would recommend MNK for the ice map. MNK is tanky as hell and can push people off cliffs as a bonus. Trying to get rid of a MNK that’s dug in is hell

[steel nebula]

PvP's balance is a mix bag for me rn and I'm having quite the love hate relationship with it

[sullen mist]

Just say you see a small skirmish going on and hop in

And its like

A whm mch and pld vs a nin Sam drk

[bright bolt]

Yeah, if I have free time while traveling between objectives, I try to help dig out the non-MNK there since it frees up our ranged players and helps set up future kills.

[sullen mist]

The kill potential is completely skewed for the 3 melee

[spiral brook]

Melee have no right to be as tanky as tanks considering their damage

[steel nebula]

Well melees are the ones that do have to go in which makes them more susceptible to taking damage consistently and cc abilities

[sullen mist]

If you are say, a smn and you want to join that fight on the side of the 2 ranged

You will probably still lose that 4v3

[bright bolt]

If coordinated to some degree, or just piggybacking off each other’s burst, I would argue that NIN SAM DRK has the advantage

[sullen mist]

Because your dmg output just doesn't compare

In huge team battles, ranged are balanced rn

They get to drop fat aoes

[bright bolt]

True, even if you surprise them as a gotcha lb as BH5, they can recover rather fast

[sullen mist]

But you can't 4 bahamut an entire clump of tanks to death anymore

That's fine

[steel nebula]

Jobs are weirdly balanced for either CC or mainly huge fights so it's harder to look at it in nuance situations

[sullen mist]

Shouldn't be able to do that

But the blanket nerfs mean if you get stuck in a 2v2

Or worse yet 1v1

You have no chance vs a melee

Imagine in secure

Your team retreats after a mid fight

And a ramp camping monk comes out from behind a pillar

[steel nebula]

melee gang melee gang

[sullen mist]

And you are a summoner

You might as well jump

You have absolutely no chance to win a fight

And if you try to retreat

[bright bolt]

You do have a chance, but that really depends on a ton of factors. I will say that you will have to work harder than the melee player though

[spiral brook]

Use the gap closer melee attack to make you safely fall off the ramp, and then run away.

[sullen mist]

He yeets you

You don't have a chance lol

A summoner is doing no fucking damage 1v1 vs a monk

[steel nebula]

I mean that is pretty fair

[sullen mist]

Automatically losing?

[steel nebula]

SMN is all about the team play and if you're out on your own that's kind of on you or you're just flat out unlucky

[bright bolt]

Pretty much. The name of the game there is to survive until backup comes or they give up.

[steel nebula]

Automatically? You do have binds, guard, sprint and recup to set you off to escape or to hold off for your team to come

[sullen mist]

Guard sprint and recoup don't save you from getting cliffed

[steel nebula]

If you know youre solo and a monk is closing you are a ranged class and should be making use of that

I mean it depends on the cliff

[sullen mist]

Secure map

[steel nebula]

Sometimes you gotta take the L

[sullen mist]

Like I said

Don't waste your time

Just jump

[steel nebula]

He has an ability that's optimal in that situation

And he's gonna use it that's just how it is

End of the day he still effectively has to chase you so unless youre not paying attention or flat unlucky you still have time to bugger off

[sullen mist]

There should be a % chance for an outplay

Higher than 0%

[steel nebula]

Bind and sprint or guard

Enlightment doesnt KB on guard I believe yeah?

[bright bolt]

Yeah, but the window to react is tiny unless they’re bad MNKs

[steel nebula]

I mean if youre saying it's a hypothetical 1v1 you should be aware of your surroundings and understand his gameplan so you just have to operate accordingly

If he gets you by surprise I mean that's just how it is you got jumped

[bright bolt]

Because usually it’s gap closer>ogcd stun>gcd knock back

[sullen mist]

It would be one thing if the non aoes abilities weren't subject to the absolutely massive dmg penalty

Then there is a chance to actually fight

When you have to stand and cast to do 4% of their health that's a joke

[steel nebula]

I mean it is SMN you shouldnt be half expecting your 1v1 potential to be good when youre a team support job

[sullen mist]

Not just 1v1 tho

3v3 isn't any better

Ranged single target is largely so flaccid that its forcing them to deathball even harder

[steel nebula]

I mean that's just dependent on skill and who youre up against and with there's going to be bad match ups

[sullen mist]

Before the rework, ranged operated in deathballs because that was the easy way to score kills

Now they operate in deathballs because their damage is irrelevant in all other contexts

It didn't fix anything, just reframed it

[steel nebula]

sorry if Im off and on with this convo my rat is finally learning to use his wheel

[sullen mist]

Nerfs successfully balanced bahamut spam and biolysis spam but put every other skill in the dumpster as a result

[steel nebula]

Honestly I just think SMN should just have more map control abilities

[sullen mist]

They already have 2

No one else gets that much area denial

[steel nebula]

I feel like it's a better identity

Whatever the ifrit ability is called just feels like it doesnt fit with a no mobility caster that shouldnt be close in the first place

[queen gyro]

Wandering DRGs just going wherever they please

[patent gazelle]

Ifrit is fine

[sullen mist]

frontlines moment

be 2-0-17, 2nd highest damage in the whole frontlines

next person in my alliance? #15

the whole time i'm thinking

"man i've never had this much trouble building up BH while not dying"

[bright bolt]

Ironically though, SMN’s aoe area could look better. Like a NIN’s aoe looks super intimidating to walk into but a SMN’s aoe feels like a non issue.

Like I slap one of those down and the rival team slows down the chase while our team regains morale or gets away.

[torpid pewter]

smn should get to do more summoning

[sterile ibex]

summon deez nuts

[gloomy geyser]

Strongly against the changes with CC. There are still people that cheat and win trade. Why would anyone try against something like that. Not only that but they still get rewarded.

[sterile ibex]

it's harder to win trade since the one taking the L gets demoted
and it's not really that many people that cheat or win trade

it was simply too easy to rank up since you could just spam matches and get lucky with team
so with demotion is also adds a sense of skill for reaching firmly diamond and not just hehe i played 200 matches to get here and got a 10 match streak

[torpid pewter]

as long as nin doesn't have near-immortality in frontline anymore i don't mind

[hallow obsidian]

Anyone know if there's a specific server to find people for the CC community cup PvP event they're doing?

[vast crag]

revival most likely if you are in US

or you can find community finder pvp linkshell

[patent gazelle]

revival has a community for all regions iirc

[sullen mist]

@spiral brook hello frontliner

[spiral brook]

o/

[sullen mist]

ez stomp

[spiral brook]

“Just ignore us leaving this S rank for absolutely no reason”

[sullen mist]

flames trying to pld cheese

so we had to squash them on that s rank

massive pinch lol

[subtle hornet]

[torpid pewter]

borderland ruins is bad and i hate it

[queen gyro]

Onsal Hakir is worse with PLD cheese making fighting over spawns pointless

All they need to do is let objectives be interrupted even under cover

[torpid pewter]

at least that can't get you instantly killed through any and all defenses you'd normally be able to use against damage

meanwhile billybob14 who picked up monk last week can just press 2-3 buttons and kill anyone instantly on the bridge

[sullen mist]

Some days your team just can't fight

2 0 17, top dps in arena (2.1m, next highest 1.7m)

[queen gyro]

I don’t really prioritize my numbers so it gets really worrying if I’m on top

Since I spend a lot of the match wandering for free captures then only converge on mid/S spawns when it’s the big goal time

[sullen mist]

i mean, playing objectives is fine until you have a team that's straight up not fighting

you can play pattycake all day until one of the other alliances that has been fighting each other all game rolls up with 12 bh5s and stomps your team's face in because you've got a couple bh3/4 and everyone else at bh1

[patent pine]

Hell I just read someone defending melee bulk

If the main issue was Smn stacking then just smack rangeds with - damage so at least melees can kill each other but right now Fl is just

[quartz plank]

I have a question regarding the CC rank portraits. The 1 on the portrait is presumably the season you got it in. So if you get the same rank portrait for season 2, is it known whether you'd get a duplicate portrait frame (with the 1 replaced with a 2 in the newer one) or if it'd replace the old one?

[tepid pier]

No clue as of yet. We'll just have to see.

[queen gyro]

pictured: Two melees dueling each other over a capture in FL

[amber escarp]

What would you think of less innate damage resistance, but a stacking damage resistance depending on how many are attacking you

Also I swear it's so satisfying to see and defeat your nemesis in Crystal Conflict

[sullen mist]

Melee already had an advantage for duels or small scale skirmishes in frontlines

The issue was that ranged aoe could hit a critical mass

[patent pine]

Duels

Frontline

???

[sullen mist]

Would a Sam or drg beat a smn or sch in 1v1 or 2v2 in old frontlines? Yes unless they were much worse

[patent pine]

What’s this

Seize?

[sullen mist]

When someone comes to Decap your base

[patent pine]

Sounds like seize

[sullen mist]

Do you just give it to them?

I've seen base decaps in seize and secure recently

[patent pine]

Yes because it’s the base in Shatter it matters much less than any other mode

[sullen mist]

Or whatever it's called

[patent pine]

If someone came to decap base kn seize

[sullen mist]

Ice map and big center ruins

[patent pine]

And it was 1 person

Player skill issue

[sullen mist]

Point being is

If its a tank and you're a healer

You can't actually do damage

[patent pine]

So like old pvp?

Curious

[sullen mist]

The pre nerf problem was a line of smn/sch could effortlessly obliterate 16 people in a choke

[patent pine]

So could whm

[sullen mist]

Yes whm too

So what was needed was aoe dropoff

Or global damage reduction on aoe

[patent pine]

Delete melees instead

And I say this as Rpr main

[sullen mist]

But I've been arguing since the change that it went way too far

[patent pine]

Aoe dropoff wont happen since the skills are coded for CC mostly

[sullen mist]

Aoe drop-off after 5

[patent pine]

But if it was a ranged aoe issue then at least let melee kill each other

Smh smh

[sullen mist]

The issue isn't that bahamut and biolysis got nerfed

Those are actually... relatively balanced now

The issue is that everything else for those classes, which weren't op to begin with, went into the trash in order to balance baha/biol

[patent pine]

Poly removing the damage mitigation gets a mention for fixing

[sullen mist]

If a pld stands there and never heals or recuperates it would take like 30 seconds for a smn+sch to kill him

That's pretty wild

Literally afk but not die

Because they each have an aoe skill that hurts and then... everything else is baby slaps

[west bridge]

wasn't there aoe drop off before 6.1

there was also diminishing cc chains too

[sullen mist]

With the old movesets

Idk?

Tbh diminishing cc chains doesn't matter in frontlines

If you get cc without purify you die from sheer damage anyways before another cc hits

I've never had a situation where I got cced twice and thought "if only this second stun was 2s instead of 3s I would survive for sure"

Not in frontlines at least

[crisp leaf]

Anyone out there who can help me step up my PVP game? I feel like im constantly in the lowest tier DPS. Playing samurai. Trying to get my series up to rank 25

[wheat cargo]

Gonna need to know some more

Lowest tier in what? Frontlines?

Cc?

[crisp leaf]

CC

Casual

[wheat cargo]

Well

The first thing is knowing what your burst is

And also knowing how to play off other party member cc

And focusing priority targets

Otherwise you end up sandbagging people

Obviously also not dying is big

Without say gameplay footage it would be harder to pinpoint specifics

[crisp leaf]

I am typically attempting to do call outs

[subtle hornet]

Also, a beginner's trap is trying to push the crystal at all times

You DON'T want to be on the crystal when you're 1v4 there

[crisp leaf]

Yea, I usually call retreat orders if 4 of us are down.

This is usually typical for me

Bottom 3 or so dps wise

[subtle hornet]

Get off the crystal

You need to be more aggressive as melee

[wheat cargo]

As a melee it'd pretty important

To be aggressive

[subtle hornet]

Your job is to do dps

[wheat cargo]

And push priority targets away from the objective

But not at the expense of losing your team

Aka don't chase to narnia

Use your aoe in groups too

[crisp leaf]

yea, Ogi is usually on cooldown to get high dps or shield going

[subtle hornet]

Practice your pvp skills on the training dummy in wolf's den too

[wheat cargo]

You aren't really necessarily meant to hold crystal

If you can push the enemy away your ranged can do it

Samurai also has decent aoe

[crisp leaf]

Mhmm, I feel like if its not me pushing though no one is. Or its usually just me and the opposite team on it, so if I get off they will push

[wheat cargo]

And if you dash in and yukikaze root people

[subtle hornet]

Then you kill the 1 person on the crystal

[wheat cargo]

With a good bait you can lb nuke

[crisp leaf]

I'm not disagreeing with your suggestions, just calling what I typically see

[subtle hornet]

You're a melee

You have kill power

[wheat cargo]

I'm going to say this now

But it's more important

To focus your own gameplay

Than worry about what other people do

Because the constant in your games

Is you

You can't control what others do

So do your job as good as you can

And just qc whatever to try and compensate if you have to

[subtle hornet]

The best way to push the crystal is with everyone else on the other team dead

And you need good dps to kill the other team

Your dps is frankly lacking for a melee

[wheat cargo]

Even for a nonmelee

It's low

So just hit more people

[crisp leaf]

When should I try to target people? I feel like when I go into melee I end up just getting nuked.

I know I have 2 reduction skills

Do I pop Chiten and engage?

[wheat cargo]

You can always jump in to bait large cds with guard too

[crisp leaf]

So dash in and guard?

[wheat cargo]

It's a valid method but not something you do constantly in a match

PvP is very much about burning out your opponents resources

And then punishing them for it

These resources include big offensive cds, their mana bar, guard, purify, and whatever personals

[crisp leaf]

What is the best way to farm series exp? Is it crystaline? Assuming I always lose

Not from a defeatist attitude, but just statistics angle.