endgame-lounge

[quick verge]

i miss that shit bro

[fiery jewel]

Time Mage that is never being added

😭

AST and Time Mage can co-exist anyways

[clear plume]

Biscuit ur wow player is showing

[amber fable]

Arithmetician

[quick verge]

maybe i was destined to be a wow player

[robust shoal]

I miss getting enhanced arrow on drk because nobody else wanted it

[quick verge]

hey

[robust shoal]

got down to like 1.87 during bw or something

[quick verge]

i needed haste on pld for o12s-2

[clear plume]

Cats what’s ur take for strongest job in ffxiv history

If power outlier specifically then we have to look at some of the worst jobs in history and that’s a tough one to beat hw pld wrt what bapple actually said, but I just assume he meant strong wise

[robust shoal]

honestly probably something in arr or hw that I don't have first-hand experience on

[fiery jewel]

NINJA

[tall field]

HW drk?

[clear plume]

Oh I thought u were boomer

[quick verge]

strongest jobs relative to their competition

some form of ninja

[fiery jewel]

it depends on the era

[quick verge]

4.4 pld

4.2 ast

[fiery jewel]

like some jobs used to literally be mandated right

[clear plume]

Hw drk definirely isn’t bc some world first groups went double warrior even

[fiery jewel]

which I don't think Jobs being hard mandated is good design

[robust shoal]

I started in SB which is still boomer in most people's eyes

[fiery jewel]

but some Jobs should be encouraged in a fight def

[robust shoal]

but not HW/ARR

[clear plume]

Like lb penalty exists bc of that era of warrior

[craggy marsh]

HW balance was a entirely different beast it's funny

[fiery jewel]

like PCT in Ultimate

honestly I think PCT is getting downtime painting removed

😭

[tall field]

And now some think Warriors will get perma 10% DD on boss

[amber fable]

No

[tall field]

Cos off tank text

[fiery jewel]

if you think about it

PCT is def losing downtime painting

there's no way it will stay

[clear plume]

Drk was good for speeds at a very high end, but yeah it was nowhere near warrior for the one tank you want

[fiery jewel]

too op 💔

well I guess now they have more room

[robust shoal]

3.4 AST, SB NIN, SB BRD, SB WAR, EW DRK, 7.0 PCT are all up there

[amber fable]

If anything other jobs can get something for downtime

[fiery jewel]

to make the paintings pretty mid

since no burst window mandate

[tall field]

Am sure cats fav patch is 7.1

[fiery jewel]

"Mog of the Ages" hitting for 1400 potency like alr bro.

[clear plume]

Sb bard is a good shout, you’d actually build your entire comp around that job

[tall field]

The drk changes in 7.1

[craggy marsh]

SHB had a few as well no?

[fiery jewel]

SB NIN >>>

[robust shoal]

SHB I don't recall anything being a giga standout

[craggy marsh]

Aaaah

[robust shoal]

honestly without that DRK would still be strong

[quick verge]

5.1 (.2?) smn was strong but eh

shb is marked more by how shit some jobs were for so long

[robust shoal]

DT DRK is kinda stupidly strong but not GOAT status I feel

[tall field]

Na we had to stop dooming

[fiery jewel]

what was the strongest Job in ShB

[tall field]

You know drkndooming era

Drk cant mit m3s

[fiery jewel]

each expansion has like an Era right

[tall field]

Shit tank

[fiery jewel]

so you need to first narrow it down to what Job is the strongest of each expac prob

[craggy marsh]

SHB had decent heavy hitters but yeah I guess nothing too standout

[robust shoal]

I'm also less in tune with melee balance the most I think so if like SAM is giga then I might not rly notice

[clear plume]

3.4 ast I’m not sure on, bc it was pre rdps and while it was broken it’s just hard to put a “how good was it actually compared to scholar” bc sch was also really fucking good

[craggy marsh]

I know PLD and SMN were good

[clear plume]

But yeah, it was ahead of whm even in that era and could have 60%+ uptime 10% party dps so it’s good for sure

[torn mesa]

EW DRK being compared to 7.0 PCT

[amber fable]

Ew being pld/mch being bad is the only thing I remember from it

[robust shoal]

yeah as I said I don't have first-hand experience, I'm mostly basing it on AST being very strong in SB and then you heard tales of how strong the cards used to be like they did WHAT

[fiery jewel]

SAM downfall was crazy

but rn it's actually solid

[tall field]

WAR:

[robust shoal]

DRK had similar presence in TOP as PCT did in FRU

[torn mesa]

Downfall?

[fiery jewel]

SAM biggest problem is that it's best two partners (DNC and AST) are not calculated for aDPS.

[torn mesa]

SAM was terrible in StB no?

[robust shoal]

Literally one single group in the world cleared before mine that didn't have DRK in it

[robust shoal]

yeah

[fiery jewel]

SAM was garbage in StB

there's a legitimate trend

[robust shoal]

SAM and BLM were both awful until 4.4

[clear plume]

I’d say a hit against it full job strength wise is it really lacked free party healing, while scholar was basically solo healing without using a single gcd

[fiery jewel]

like the poster Job of an expansion is always garbage

it's actually real

[tall field]

How about downfall of warrior

[craggy marsh]

RPR mains beware

[tall field]

From being goated

To being just ok

[fiery jewel]

HW DRG, StB SAM, ShB DRK, EW PLD, DT VPR

all of these Jobs were garbage relative to the competition but varying degrees.

[clear plume]

You had CU which had to be held at the time, CO which was relatively weak

[fiery jewel]

ye we're cooked prob

[quick verge]

"hw drg, shb drk" "garbage"

for sure man

[clear plume]

Meanwhile scholar had a 450 potency embrace still and rouse whisp was a 1040 potency regen to the party

[tall field]

Hw pld?

[robust shoal]

ShB DRK was fine

[tall field]

I heard playing pld in hw

[clear plume]

That’s ignoring pet potency ofc, but even factoring that it was

[tall field]

Was a ticket to being banned to do raids

[robust shoal]

Only bad thing about ShB DRK was LD

[torn mesa]

Wasn't SMN super good

in verse

for ShB

[craggy marsh]

SE hadn't figured out how to balance mitigation

Tfw the tank with the shield couldn't block magic

[quick verge]

reworked smn got to dick tea and verse

[robust shoal]

I don't think I'd call SMN super good so much as RDM/BLM were whatever

[quick verge]

and it was promptly nerfed to be normal

[torn mesa]

but you have 2 tank slots vs normally 1 caster slot, and there's more competition for a DPS choice than tank

[clear plume]

How is hw drg bad compared to its contemporaries? Ninja was good sure but monk did similar damage without any party utility

[fiery jewel]

it's varying degrees like none of the poster Jobs were actually great during relative expansion

[torn mesa]

I guess I also thought of it more in terms of numerical advantage in DPS as opposed to pure representation

wasn't MNK the bad melee in HW

yeah

[clear plume]

Blit was still 20% at the time, 10% piercing debuff during double prange meta

[quick verge]

delete mnk became a meme because of how whelming it was

[fiery jewel]

Because Blunt was useless

[craggy marsh]

well PLD got better after the 6.3 rework

[quick verge]

compared to trick attack and piercing debuff bot

[craggy marsh]

but ya by that point EW was halfway done

[torn mesa]

if we say pre nerf PCT

surely we can say AST before 7.4 WHM buffs?

in DT that is

[quick verge]

we can say ast in like 3 different expacs

or sch

[torn mesa]

so true

[clear plume]

This isn’t even the strongest ast has been compared to whm

[robust shoal]

If you're talking numerical advantage than nothing beats DRK except for specifically PCT in FRU

[torn mesa]

yeah that's exactly what I was thinking lol

PCT in FRU was such a massive outlier

[fiery jewel]

AST before 7.4 was blatantly op

but some people will deny it

[torn mesa]

but like, PCT on top of that

just had great utility too

[fiery jewel]

there's a reason they actually nerfed AST and they never nerf Jobs

[torn mesa]

they didn't nerf AST

[quick verge]

they have nerfed ast

[torn mesa]

what

[quick verge]

they just call it a rework

[robust shoal]

like PCT looks like this

[fiery jewel]

ye

[torn mesa]

not in DT/EW at least

[robust shoal]

and then DRK looks like this

[fiery jewel]

prime AST in DT

[quick verge]

every ast rework is a nerf

[fiery jewel]

was cruiserweight I think

[jolly flume]

they slowly potency crept every other healer's main damage spell and dot

[fiery jewel]

cruiswereight AST was RIDICULOUS man

[jolly flume]

like literally every patch of dawntrail had +5 potency on dia

lol

[torn mesa]

said "creep" was still too trash

for WHM to compete

until 7.4

[jolly flume]

nobody cares about that dmg anyway

plenary mit

[torn mesa]

and while it's closer now, AST still pulls ahead at the highest level

[jolly flume]

[quick verge]

we're gonna see 500% ast representation during ultimate season

so it's whatever

[robust shoal]

90th percentile DRK cDPS literally 10% ahead of the other tanks

[fiery jewel]

like hell nah what was that

[amber fable]

Ast solo healing dsr on content

[torn mesa]

oh did you say 7.0 DRK specifically

lol

[amber fable]

Was funny

[fiery jewel]

cruiserweight AST nightmares

[clear plume]

Shoutout to the guy who applied to my static wondering why we would accept a scholar one trick but not a sage one trick

Instantly failed that trial

[craggy marsh]

This is what lincoln park does to a mf

[quick verge]

hmmmmm

[fiery jewel]

literally closer to tank than the other healers

[robust shoal]

I didn't rly specify a patch, honestly DRK post-ShB has just been insane in general

[jolly flume]

lhw ast was the worst

it gapped whm by like 2.5k

which is based honestly

[craggy marsh]

i'm sorry but chain strat is just too good

[robust shoal]

idk what specific tiers DRK gapped the hardest on

[craggy marsh]

expedient too

[torn mesa]

AST no cards > WHM before 7.4

[fiery jewel]

LHW was good

but CW ast was insane

[robust shoal]

but after ShB DRK is just stupidly far ahead on even patch in general

[fiery jewel]

HW ast is where WHM is arguabyl better

at least in PF

[torn mesa]

funniest part is because SE almost never nerfs jobs

when they buff a job, they indirectly buff AST

[fiery jewel]

yes

EXACTLY

[torn mesa]

so the 5 dia potency means nothing

[fiery jewel]

that's why Bard is so good

for example

[clear plume]

That’s not why bard is good at all

[fiery jewel]

Bard and AST are like the ciricus orchestrators they are evil

BRD has the most raid buffs in the game it benefits from any buffs p much.

raid buffs just too hard to balance there is no winning

[jolly flume]

it's not really that hard to balance most jobs to within a reasonable degree with raid buffs in play

[quick verge]

square is just utterly incompetent

[fiery jewel]

I think CW but idk

[jolly flume]

square just willfully ignores numbers

[torn mesa]

it's mostly just SE undervalues raid buffs

[fiery jewel]

agree but it's SQEX

[jolly flume]

this is the company that buffed drk's delirium combo in 7.1

[quick verge]

look at mch changes for the last 6 years and tell me they dont have claude working on their patch notes

[fiery jewel]

they basically are designing two completely different kinds of Jobs

[clear plume]

Bard is good bc they nerfed other jobs buffs but buffed their potency inside of it, with the exception of bard and dnc because it was their job identity and it has nothing to do with what classes are buffed or not around it, it’s that core design change with every other job just not working with that identity

[fiery jewel]

biggest example is Black Mage vs PCT, RPR vs Dragoon.

[robust shoal]

oh yeah, thoat graph I posted is before they buffed DRK

[craggy marsh]

SE buffing GNB almost every patch in EW despite it already doing amazing damage

[robust shoal]

They literally saw DRK 10% ahead and buffed it

[fiery jewel]

They design Jobs that live and die by the 2min burst and then actual sustained DPS Jobs.

[jolly flume]

but drk is behind in rdps

that means the job needs a buff

[torn mesa]

DRK sustain bad

[clear plume]

Yeah but it’s dungeon mit was bad so it needed more delirium damage

[fiery jewel]

aDPS is all that matters

[torn mesa]

please buff damage

[jolly flume]

[fiery jewel]

DRK is op

[jolly flume]

500 potency cns!

this will save the job

[fiery jewel]

DRK just needs one raidbuff in the party and it's better than every other Tank

[alpine plover]

actually cdps is what matters in a vacuum

[fiery jewel]

besides Warrior now I think but idk

[jolly flume]

why do we have to live in a world where warrior is a reasonable choice

at least it still has bad mit

[fiery jewel]

cDPS is the only one that really matters it's basically rDPS and aDPS filtered into one metric.

[torn mesa]

trust

[fiery jewel]

but for an actual DPS check rDPS is the accurate one

[torn mesa]

Holmgang CD will be useful in Kefka

[craggy marsh]

SE please make every tank invuln the same CD it'll be great dw

[torn mesa]

[fiery jewel]

since cDPS it effectively doubles

[quick verge]

make holmgang cd 3 minutes

[fiery jewel]

the damage from raidbuffs

since it tracks person giving the raidbuff and then person taking the raidbuff

[clear plume]

Warrior isn’t the highest rdps tank idk where that’s coming from, gnb is stronger in rdps and adps than it

[fiery jewel]

for overall cDPS

[craggy marsh]

GNB having a shorter invuln CD than PLD despite them doing the same thing basically

[jolly flume]

even when holmgang cd is useful its like now I have to heal you back from 1hp instead of having my gigachad paladin take 25% of their hp

[fiery jewel]

WAR being highest nDPS tank not even bad design

[jolly flume]

I use the term useful loosely

[fiery jewel]

ngl

[torn mesa]

if you care about meta at all, you playing PLD-DRK in prog always

[robust shoal]

you still look at cDPS for actual contribution

[fiery jewel]

it actually deserves it

[jolly flume]

to just mean "extra usage"

[torn mesa]

WAR or GNB is an afterthought

[jolly flume]

most of the time it's not even a meaningful extra usage

[robust shoal]

if you completely delete a person from a log then the overall damage decreases by a number equal to their cDPS

[jolly flume]

the only time I'd say it actually is is cauterize in dsr

[fiery jewel]

yeah it's the only one I really care about besides nDPS for my own performance.

rDPS is only the most popular one since it's the easiest to parse

and it's the actual DPS check ig

[quick verge]

rdps is the most popular one because it's the default on fflogs.co.uk

hello

[fiery jewel]

.

[torn mesa]

rDPS is used because it's comp independent

[quick verge]

they ran a poll about this like 90 years ago

[torn mesa]

well less comp dependent I should say

[alpine plover]

cdps is the actual contribution, rdps is more for parsing cuz it's the first on the the log page

[clear plume]

In 7.4 it had lower rdps than drk even (90th percentile pictured, but relevant among most)

[fiery jewel]

ye

[robust shoal]

I missed a 99 in TEA because people died to the last jwave and couldn't pad my trick attack on alex prime

[fiery jewel]

excited for new DRK tbh

finally it's not designed around this ridiculous 2min window

that's not even that hard

[jolly flume]

the only metric I care about is whether the boss dies and if I can drag people's dead bodies across the finish line

[dapper zealot]

holy shit mountain fire is cool af

[jolly flume]

enraging fru p5 with 1 support death on exas

[torn mesa]

erm

[quick verge]

type shit croski-kun

[clear plume]

The only metric I care about is how much aura I have towards ekittens get on my level nerd

[fiery jewel]

only in 7.1 was this realistic honestly

[wicked delta]

My bad

[fiery jewel]

well actually

maybe in 7.2 after they nerfed PCT

but new raid tier

[jolly flume]

you could absolutely blast the check at any point in fru's lifespan

[fiery jewel]

shit idk

[clear plume]

Does clearing get you free potions didn’t think so, ekittens does

[jolly flume]

but ppl just suck at buttons

what's new

[torn mesa]

my bad

[craggy marsh]

This cacophony

[alpine plover]

And nowadays, killing pandora durin exalines

[wicked delta]

What if the ekittens dont want you though

[jolly flume]

silence rank 1

[torn mesa]

nobody is killing pandora

[fiery jewel]

this is insane

lol

[jolly flume]

high blue gunbreaker is speaking

[torn mesa]

during exalines

[fiery jewel]

I think my fastest kill is like

[quick verge]

maybe you cant

but in china

[clear plume]

Simply have a more impressive fflogs page then clearly

[wicked delta]

So true

[torn mesa]

sorry, door boss is impossible

[fiery jewel]

are china players really lik that

idk

probably

[jolly flume]

I have an 18:13 from 7.1

that was a pretty wild kill

me when minty chao in the party

[fiery jewel]

I think like

~30 before enrage is pretty realistic

[torn mesa]

Fastest I have is 18:12

[fiery jewel]

in a good party rn

so yeah like 18:10 range

[torn mesa]

no it is not, unless you intend to send LB and mit pandora's box

[clear plume]

Noble came in to flex on chiyo hate to see it

[torn mesa]

which is not happening in PF

[jolly flume]

I got -1'd

[fiery jewel]

I have some 18:10s in pf

[jolly flume]

reminds me of when I used to speedrun

[fiery jewel]

with ppl who parsed grey

[jolly flume]

[fiery jewel]

I guess RPR and PCT are op in FRU still

what the best p5 jobs rn

[torn mesa]

the fastest logged kill outside of 7.1

is 18:11

[fiery jewel]

o

[jolly flume]

podium meme

[fiery jewel]

I have an 18:15 in pf

well maybe we shouldn't use

entire fight timeline

[torn mesa]

yes, and most of killing fast is in P1

[fiery jewel]

ye

[torn mesa]

killing P5 faster requires you to send LB3

[quick verge]

damn you really cant gain time in fru

[jolly flume]

p1 was annoying

[quick verge]

bricked ass game

[torn mesa]

we loved HP lock

[jolly flume]

killing very fast was nice

killing very slow was nice

[fiery jewel]

if they can fix the powercreep issues

[clear plume]

P1 and p5 only

[jolly flume]

killing anywhere in between pmo

[fiery jewel]

they wouldn't need

p2 and p3 to exist

and p4 also

but powercrep is insane u can get shiva down to 0% even

if u lock in

[jolly flume]

I don't really mind the whole thresholding thing tbh

ppl cry about holding less

[fiery jewel]

yeah

[quick verge]

notice how a good fight like uwu lets you shave off 30 minutes from the fight duration

[fiery jewel]

it's a necessary evil right

[torn mesa]

no

[fiery jewel]

because what's the alternative p1

[torn mesa]

people who cry about holding have no rights

so who cares

[clear plume]

Holding dps is good

[fiery jewel]

I agree but like

this is PF man

[alpine plover]

ok i can't find the clip where they killed during akh morns

[jolly flume]

respect--

[clear plume]

Wahhh I have to think during my raid

[fiery jewel]

you are adding another layer of complexity TO PF

[alpine plover]

but whatevs

[fiery jewel]

but tbf is PF even doing that much damage in P1 anyways

[rapid whale]

issa ultimate

[fiery jewel]

probably yes because the chekc is a joke

[alpine plover]

not like enrage is a problem in fru

if you dont die

[rapid whale]

i say any consideration for complexity goes out the window for pf

for ultimate*

[fiery jewel]

intermission issues were actually real

before certain job buffs

ngl

unless u have raidbuff comp

[clear plume]

My static locks pct out of fru bc it’s always the most dogshit offrole players

[rapid whale]

mb

[fiery jewel]

BLM in FRU is based even if it's mid

[jolly flume]

you main picto and you're still dogshit

jk

[torn mesa]

yeah man

[fiery jewel]

I hope they buff BLM in 7.51

[torn mesa]

those PCTs always int with smudge

[fiery jewel]

lowkey deserves it

[torn mesa]

smh

[rapid whale]

https://klipy.com/gifs/true-correct-3--k01KS741C540RPZ9DRV3EFM111C

[fiery jewel]

ain't SMN and RDM comparable with BLM rn

insanity

[jolly flume]

the smudgeling

[wicked delta]

Stop flaming Bapple hes like 80 years old

You cannot bully the elderly

[clear plume]

No like really you see so many people who will never offrole rdm that will think they will offrole pct and then die to exalines

[rapid whale]

yeah rn all casters are within 1k dps in opti comp iirc, altho picto ahead with full buffs

[clear plume]

Every fucking time

[rapid whale]

including smn

[fiery jewel]

they kinda had to buff SMN because it's kinda trash in Ultimate due to the design

but SMN buffs were good

[clear plume]

Smn has more feed than pct on a lucky run right now

[fiery jewel]

RDM and PCT on paper should be the best in Ultimate out of the casters

[rapid whale]

bahamut go brrrrr

[fiery jewel]

they are the most flexible

[jolly flume]

what's worse, being so scared of exas that you have 70% uptime in top p6/fru p5 or being such a greedy mf that you die to them

debate

[fiery jewel]

and I think that's true for FRU rn

[torn mesa]

well I think if you die to exa

[jolly flume]

well for top it's dying

forget top

[fiery jewel]

it's hard to die to FRU exas once u know them

[torn mesa]

you might still do more damage than 70% uptime

[jolly flume]

just fru

[fiery jewel]

like actually really hard

[torn mesa]

in FRU

[fiery jewel]

if u pop sprint it's chill

I think problem with FRU exa is that the lazy strat is encouraged when it's worse on msot jobs

[rapid whale]

its okay just have like 30% uptime in p5 and clear anyway because the dps check isnt real /s

[jolly flume]

I've always found it so funny how people just stop pressing buttons during any form of exaflare mechanic

[clear plume]

This is asking if I’d rather give human rights to cockroaches or centipedes ass question

[fiery jewel]

if u are a melee or physr u should do the no lazy strat it's way easier

[jolly flume]

like you know you can just clip a little worst case and cast again right

[rapid whale]

human centipedes u say

[fiery jewel]

the lazy strat it's testing the limits

[rapid whale]

and then we put the holy in white on the grill

[jolly flume]

then we chop em up

suuuuuuuure suuuure

[rapid whale]

die to exas? neva neva neva

[jolly flume]

and that's how we kill pandora

[fiery jewel]

VPR needs a buff holy

[jolly flume]

the ocky way

[craggy marsh]

But would you die?

"Nah, i'd get a DD tho"

[fiery jewel]

if Kefka has downtime mechanics which he does in Savage it's grim for VPR and MCH dude

[jolly flume]

it's always grim for mch

[fiery jewel]

yeah

[jolly flume]

I love that job but man

[torn mesa]

7.5 data

[fiery jewel]

Jobs have changed so much from 7.1 --> 7.5

it's the best data we have rn

[torn mesa]

use 7.4

[rapid whale]

Rpr strength is the ability to choose when to dump DMG I thought

[jolly flume]

wym 7.5 data is clearly superior to 7.4 data because you pb'd doorslop this patch

[torn mesa]

cause 7.5 savage playerbase is terrible

[wicked delta]

My bad

[fiery jewel]

7.5 Savage player base not doing FRU tho

no way

mayb ig

[rapid whale]

Yeah I got a rank 1 in 7.5 you know it's cooked

[clear plume]

Didn’t samurai get buffed this patch

[fiery jewel]

SAM got a good buff

[jolly flume]

yes

[fiery jewel]

it was like 1% or smth

[jolly flume]

xd

[fiery jewel]

actually deserved

[craggy marsh]

Still proud of you Baps

[fiery jewel]

basically why it can't be meta but now they've gone and made it meta

[rapid whale]

Same, off patch r1 beats never getting it right

[torn mesa]

Bapple

[rapid whale]

LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU

[jolly flume]

i only ever got r2

[torn mesa]

Odd patch parse is the equivalent of the bench bum in the NBA going to China

[jolly flume]

when is it my turn

[torn mesa]

and averaging 30

[jolly flume]

to podium meme

[clear plume]

My statics melee is the reason 7.5 rpr looks decent

[fiery jewel]

FRU parse on PCT is prob hard because everoyne plays it

[clear plume]

[fiery jewel]

lol

tbf who is looking at 7.5 HW logs

[rapid whale]

Patrick basketball meme

[fiery jewel]

😭

[quick verge]

is your static melee

…

[fiery jewel]

I'd rather look at Enuo

[quick verge]

the forbidden one

[torn mesa]

EX data is trash too

favors selfish jobs for obvious reasons

[fiery jewel]

ye

[clear plume]

I haven’t even done the normal mode

[jolly flume]

ex players are famously good at the game

[fiery jewel]

there's just nothing good rn besides 7.5 FRU

[clear plume]

Off patch trial exdee

[fiery jewel]

7.5 FRU is actually somewhat accurate if you go to high percentiles

[torn mesa]

You use 7.4 savage data

[craggy marsh]

Doth the yawning rift not tempt you?

[fiery jewel]

at least for rDPS

[torn mesa]

and give the jobs that got buffed a corresponding bump

[fiery jewel]

a lot of balance changes 7.5 tho

[amber fable]

Did anyone see enuo enrage is what I wanna ask?

[fiery jewel]

especially for the bad jobs

[rapid whale]

"I am closer to lapin Gino than you are to me"

[torn mesa]

not really

[fiery jewel]

besides MCH

MCH untouched was actually insane

[jolly flume]

yes

[amber fable]

I had 10 deaths in a run

[jolly flume]

blind prog !

[amber fable]

And still didnt see it

[fiery jewel]

it's a joke

so no

[torn mesa]

we didn't enrage

[jolly flume]

didn't we

[torn mesa]

nope

[amber fable]

Not even cast bar

[jolly flume]

oh

guess we don't suck

[quick verge]

what time is enuo enrage

[fiery jewel]

it's been impossible to enrage to Extreme since like Zelenia Adds maybe

[rapid whale]

Are clean enrages in ex real

[amber fable]

8.0

Trust

[fiery jewel]

like 11:00 or something lol

[clear plume]

Who wants to join my off patch parse static I already have the goat (azra lacrimae) on pct locked down

[rapid whale]

The only time I've ever seen it was m12s week 1 in pf

[quick verge]

no

[clear plume]

I’m gonna either drk or healer

[jolly flume]

put some of the late savage pf ppl we've helped in lhw in there and it sure can be

[craggy marsh]

I know off savage patch parses don't matter but i'm still happy with my 93 on m12

[fiery jewel]

Extreme DPS checks are def too low

it's more close to normal than savage basically

[torn mesa]

I mean

[amber fable]

Unreal suzaku had tighter check than m4s

[torn mesa]

they're EX lol

[amber fable]

No cap

[fiery jewel]

It's still high-end group content they should at least give it a low percentile DPS check

[torn mesa]

and they do

[fiery jewel]

this is real

[clear plume]

It didn’t, the people who do unreal just don’t do R4s

[torn mesa]

EX DPS check is usually slightly below a first floor

[fiery jewel]

?

that's just not true

Enuo is way lower than Vamp

Doomtrain also

[amber fable]

Enuo is 770 ilvl but the dps req is below m9

[jolly flume]

vamp is like 10 isn't it

[amber fable]

Which is 760

[jolly flume]

we kill her 8:10

[fiery jewel]

Vamp DPS check was already easy

tbf

it literally had an add phase also

[torn mesa]

I don't know

[rapid whale]

But enou tuned for lower than crafted gear no

[fiery jewel]

but yea I agree Noble it should be slightly below first floor

but it's not even that rn which is the issue it's like 15% below a first floor

[torn mesa]

That's literally what it is. You play remotely clean, and it's a kill.

[fiery jewel]

I think 770

[rapid whale]

Oic

[jolly flume]

ex has more healer skill expression than ultimate fr

[fiery jewel]

true actually

that's based

[jolly flume]

I get to drag 20 deaths into a clear

it's fun

[fiery jewel]

Extreme PF is fun

[clear plume]

Implying ucob doesn’t let you do that

[fiery jewel]

unless it's Necron

[torn mesa]

hey man UCoB can drag 20 deaths too

yeah

[fiery jewel]

or Arkveld

[rapid whale]

Lmao impossible to make a heal plan in ex due to random dmg

[jolly flume]

cob isn't an ultimate

[amber fable]

Me sniping a healer during orbs because i dont remember which side my healer was

Mb

[torn mesa]

Okay, but have you seen how many deaths we've had in even TOP now

[clear plume]

Mods can we ban chiyo he’s too zoomer to have rights

[jolly flume]

mb

[rapid whale]

https://tenor.com/view/now-old-man-the-future-is-now-old-man-gif-9677657

[clear plume]

Centipede wins over cob haters on who gets human rights

[tall field]

Ive had enuo enrages

[fiery jewel]

Okay I think Enuo DPS check is like

[tall field]

3 times

[fiery jewel]

wait send ur logs

rq

I'm trying to find the value

[clear plume]

If ur drk you get no enrages trust

[tall field]

2% HP 0.2% HP
13%

Yea i didng log them lol

[fiery jewel]

imagine

[rapid whale]

13, that's gotta be a ton of deaths no

[tall field]

Ye

Hunts

[fiery jewel]

what time was the enrage tho

[jolly flume]

we've had like 5/8 people die to adds phase in enuo and still make it

i can't fathom enraging

lol

[tall field]

Let me see what time i killed enuo
Given my team had a healer LB3+ Damage down on adds+ additional hunt deaths

[fiery jewel]

this was the cloesst I can find rn

[tall field]

I think you cant go this bad

[fiery jewel]

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/mnx3tXKAv1Mrhf6q?fight=6&type=damage-done

[proven pivot]

What do ppl mean when they say that xiv combat is boring bc it’s just pressing buttons… isn’t that like every game…

[clear plume]

Just go to personal speeds in fflogs rankings and start scrolling pages

[fiery jewel]

the fflogs serach system is so hard

[clear plume]

👍

[fiery jewel]

the filter system is broken for me or smth.

minimum pull length

[tall field]

10min 12s

[fiery jewel]

this is 10:54 enrage

[tall field]

Also assume

[jolly flume]

xiv combat is boring because a lot of jobs give you nothing to think about

[tall field]

Damage downs

Also assume

[jolly flume]

you press button but no brain worky

[tall field]

Healer lb4

Lb3*

[fiery jewel]

194k is crazy low

Vamp is like 215k or smth with add phase.

[quick verge]

can they add outlaw rogue to xiv

I love gambling bro

holy fuck

[tall field]

Also assume clearing as jusf 4 5 people

[fiery jewel]

real

[torn mesa]

considering min ilevel for vamp is higher

that's pretty expected

[tall field]

Instead of 8

[uncut pebble]

not always a mch but somehow always a mch

[fiery jewel]

they are same min IL I think

idk if it was like 205k

[tall field]

Our team did 208k dps on enuo

[jolly flume]

it can't be always a mch

[fiery jewel]

that's at least respectable

[tall field]

208k rdps

[fiery jewel]

Vamp Fatale if we are being real

[jolly flume]

that would contradict 75% of dancer players belonging in a zoo

[fiery jewel]

is already a joke DPS check for a Savage

even if fifrst floor

[tall field]

How less is 208krdps?

[fiery jewel]

Dancing Green was the goat for first floor DPS check

[uncut pebble]

yep...

[tall field]

Is it less than savages?

[stray forge]

I love carpeltunnel

[fiery jewel]

ye

vamp is like 215k or smth

[tall field]

That cleared enuo

[fiery jewel]

that's way before enrage

208k is like a full minute basically

[tall field]

So 11mins?

[fiery jewel]

enrage seems like exactly 11mins

[tall field]

11mins enrage

Mine was 10:12

Ngl i should use ACT

For myself

[amber fable]

My 10 death run had 9 min kill

[fiery jewel]

they will never make a DPS check like ex3 again

[amber fable]

How bad was this party throwing bruh

[quick verge]

geriatric things

[fiery jewel]

because EX3 only had 6k less DPS check than M4S in both phases

[amber fable]

Err 9:xx

[fiery jewel]

but tbf again M4S was a joke DPS check

[tall field]

How bad is damage down in towers?

[clear plume]

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/MA69a2DJgqQrn3xv?fight=36&type=damage-done

[jolly flume]

m4s got killed 90 seconds before enrage in min ilvl

[clear plume]

Slowest non bugged log on fflogs

[jolly flume]

that's hardly a comparison

[amber fable]

Enuo has damage down?

[tall field]

Towers yes

[fiery jewel]

wait how do you get the filter to work

plz teach me

[tall field]

You miss towers welcome

To dmg down

[amber fable]

Damn

[fiery jewel]

11:21

LMFAO?

oh hell nah

maybe it was like borderline add enrage

[clear plume]

You put the number in actual seconds

[fiery jewel]

into rest of fight

[clear plume]

600=10m

Not 10:00

And don’t leave high end field empty

[fiery jewel]

the problem is when I do this

[clear plume]

Or else it will search for that exact second (as in 10:00.00)

[tall field]

Everyone in our ex died atleast once

With some dying twice

[fiery jewel]

it just resets

or is this working

and I'm stupid

it's prob that ngl

[clear plume]

Click the search button and use that field insteD

[fiery jewel]

alr

[clear plume]

And add the high end to 9999 seconds

[tall field]

But yea 11mins sounds likely

Idk how to check previous log pulls

[fiery jewel]

wait holdup what search button

[tall field]

My 0.2% enrage pull

[fiery jewel]

11:21 is an actual joke but it's probably because of add phase

just wish every Extreme was like ~10ish mins with no repeat mechs

2 totem all

[clear plume]

The one on the right of the giant bar

With the blue behind it

[fiery jewel]

alr ty

[clear plume]

And search icon

And that for everything later than 11m

[tall field]

I see 10 pulls before this

[fiery jewel]

this is hella useful never knew about that ty

[dapper zealot]

ok I knew ex1 gonna be easy with gearcreep

but godamn it's piss easy

[tepid briar]

I'm still salty

I almost got like an 89 on p1 m12s

[fiery jewel]

maybe I'm like

[tepid briar]

but people screwed up slaughter

[fiery jewel]

crazy

[tepid briar]

it's not that hard

[fiery jewel]

I do feel like even EX1-EX2 had a harder DPS check than current EX

[jolly flume]

m12s parsing is where your last two braincells go to die

[fiery jewel]

yeah

m12s is literally just about killtime

it's not really fun

[tepid briar]

as a fight I don't really like m12s

[dapper zealot]

oh wtf ex1 only gives 1 totem?

buh

[tepid briar]

it doesn't fit the theme at all

[clear plume]

I warned you starting on it was a mistake

[torn mesa]

if only M12S was just about KT...

it would be much nicer

[tepid briar]

p2 doesn't even have anything to do with lindwurm

other than ten billion clones

[jolly flume]

never let the opps win 🔥

[amber fable]

Random bs go

[tepid briar]

half the fight is just him jumping

meanwhile m4s

[torn mesa]

the opps won

[tepid briar]

show the column to the left

[jolly flume]

replace our promise fades with this tbh

[clear plume]

May I introduce u to my parsing statics gnb

https://www.fflogs.com/character/na/midgardsormr/buns-to- your-hun

[jolly flume]

https://www.fflogs.com/character/id/20879941

[fiery jewel]

m12s p1 is pretty awful

[jolly flume]

dang 371

that's almost as many as cats did wicked thunder

[clear plume]

82 median

Is crazy

[jolly flume]

yeah

[torn mesa]

did they bag at all

[fiery jewel]

I really believe they originally designed 12 as a no-checkpoint and enrage was immediately after curtain call or smth so like ~4:40

[jolly flume]

watched half my group get natty purples

[tepid briar]

bruh

[jolly flume]

on every pull

[clear plume]

Nope, pf and my static both do dps/healer bag

[torn mesa]

did not get a single 99 in like

20 door boss kills

[tepid briar]

legit

[torn mesa]

[jolly flume]

bruh

[tepid briar]

how the fuck are you getting 27k on scholar

[clear plume]

He has like less than 15 greys total

[fiery jewel]

sandbag

[clear plume]

In 371 clears

[dusk sky]

Imagine getting purples+….

[jolly flume]

100 offpatch though 🏅 🍾

[clear plume]

So median isn’t effected at all

I saw bro natty a green once

With good kt

[tepid briar]

oh rdps

[jolly flume]

press buttons, crit good, party good at feeding buffs

[tepid briar]

makes sense

[fiery jewel]

Clare Booie is the GOAT of healer parsing

[tall field]

Do you need to always boot up act before launching ff?

[jolly flume]

clare booie is very good at pressing glare and nothing else

unfortunately that works to her detriment in pf

[tepid briar]

bro how the FUCK

[torn mesa]

here we go again

[tepid briar]

do you get 99.4% uptime on m11

[clear plume]

Even myself only has a 89 median on door

[jolly flume]

99.4 is with some small clips

cring

[torn mesa]

I've got an 85 median on door

[jolly flume]

oh wait are you looking at my whm logs

[clear plume]

Every other fight I’m above 98

[jolly flume]

or the scholar ones

[tepid briar]

no

scholar

[clear plume]

Above 99 on 9 and 10

[jolly flume]

oh

[fiery jewel]

if no ruin 2 that's impressive

[tepid briar]

I'm only able to get like max 93 94 on whm

[fiery jewel]

sorta

[jolly flume]

idk enough pulls you learn the slide timings

[tepid briar]

but that's probably cause I don't hyper optimize

[fiery jewel]

do you press ruin 2

[jolly flume]

ofc I ruin 2 bc I don't care that much but it's not like

an excessive amt lol

[tepid briar]

y'know what

[fiery jewel]

okay so you are based

[tepid briar]

I'm happy enough with a purple

[jolly flume]

even an excessive amt doesn't do much to your damage

I was spamming that shit in early weeks farming orange still

[fiery jewel]

anyone will take a high purple healer in PF

[amber fable]

Killing boss earlier also helps for dps

[fiery jewel]

average healer feels like high grey in PF man

[jolly flume]

avg healer does pretty bad damage

[fiery jewel]

w1 m11s in PF

[jolly flume]

week 1 was full of ppl doing 18-19k

[amber fable]

When getting uptime 80 is considered good

[tepid briar]

green or above is fine, blue is yay, purple is thank fucking god

[fiery jewel]

someone literally made an article where it was like

[amber fable]

In pug

[torn mesa]

purple is job fundamentals

[fiery jewel]

"You need a 20k DPS healer of it's unclearable"

[torn mesa]

[amber fable]

Shit is dire

[fiery jewel]

it was so funny lol

[torn mesa]

here we go

[jolly flume]

find healer that does >20k if you wanna clear

yea I saw that one

[dusk sky]

I think I‘ve crashed out during Cruiserweight and Heavyweight that like… idk I’m not use to 95% uptime being a requirement to cross over the 80th percentile. I feel like that wasn’t the case in EW or ShB

[fiery jewel]

😭

[tepid briar]

m11s was brutal pfing

[dusk sky]

Worse healers kept the average down before 7.0 ig

[amber fable]

Even with death you can have above 90% uptime

[fiery jewel]

tbf it actually felt like that for 11

w1

[amber fable]

It aint hard

[tepid briar]

cause people would fuck up over and over

[fiery jewel]

in pf

[valid solar]

doesnt dia still do 70 potency or something on application ? its higher than 0

[amber fable]

80

[torn mesa]

you know for the people that wiped a lot in M11S PF W1

I'm really curious to see some of the clean enrage logs

[tepid briar]

oh I'm not in the habit yet of weaving dia as a dump gcd

[torn mesa]

and be surprised when I find a healer doing 17k

[tepid briar]

I need to start doing that

[amber fable]

Lack of uptime

But I was healing

Which is enough

Right/s

[fiery jewel]

the healer DPS gap is defintely too large rn

[tepid briar]

I hate parsing m10 though

[fiery jewel]

they will prob try to fix it

[tepid briar]

cause everyone does snaking weirdly

there's always some downtime running for my life

[fiery jewel]

healer DPS gap is basically the same as DPS and Tank

[jolly flume]

in 11 specifically and for white mage in general you should get accustomed to using raptures mostly only when it coincides with movement if you want max uptime, use your other healing buttons when you don't need to move

bank those instants

[torn mesa]

healer DPS gap has been there large since forever

[tepid briar]

yeah I've got it relatively down but need to optimize split and stampede

[torn mesa]

this is not new

[jolly flume]

yea stampede just blows

[true beacon]

this is M9 but even lower with gear you can meat that

[torn mesa]

see: alpha omega

[tepid briar]

if you get puddle it's chill

if you get tether bye uptime

[jolly flume]

split I hold my misery and two raptures for each set

[amber fable]

My biggest issue with m11 as tank is using range gcd in 20s...good tanks cut it down to below 10

[jolly flume]

and then dash the safespot at the end

[tepid briar]

interesting

[torn mesa]

20s?

[tepid briar]

I haven't optimized that much

[amber fable]

20+ times

[torn mesa]

that's insanity lol

[tepid briar]

I've done gcd first two puddles

instant gcd the third

and then walk

[torn mesa]

11 ranged attacks in M11S is super safe on melee

[fiery jewel]

that's why PLD is so op

[torn mesa]

and that's with a faster GCD

[amber fable]

Yeah I am bad

[fiery jewel]

they need to give the other tank actual ranged options

it's kinda ridiculous

[tepid briar]

idk what gcd feels good yet

[fiery jewel]

every melee dps has a neutral ranged option

[torn mesa]

incorrect

[tepid briar]

I was 2.37 or something for m11 before and that's what I cleared on

[torn mesa]

no melee does except VPR

[tepid briar]

but for m12 it feels like low gcd fucks you

[jolly flume]

you can slide the puddles too yeah

[fiery jewel]

NIN has multiple DPS neutral options

[tepid briar]

timing feels off to me

[jolly flume]

I do that on scholar

[fiery jewel]

it's dexterity

[jolly flume]

just on white mage I have nothing else to burn raptures on anyway so might as well

[tepid briar]

I don't slide the third puddle because once or twice I've gotten snapshotted

[torn mesa]

NIN has exactly 2, both of which are highly time dependent in whether they can be used

[fiery jewel]

SAM and DRG are really close to DPS neutral but obv u aren't usign these during a standard rotation

[torn mesa]

Suiton and PK

[fiery jewel]

idk about MNK but I think it's close

Reaper has a lot of options ik that but the timing you can use them is weird

[torn mesa]

yes, RPR and NIN have 3/2 options, respectively

[fiery jewel]

idk abt MNK though

[torn mesa]

but they're all timing limited

[fiery jewel]

that's the only one I'm really unsure about

[torn mesa]

MNK has 2 as well, timing limited

[tepid briar]

well whatever

[torn mesa]

DRG has 0

[fiery jewel]

with the DT moves right

[tepid briar]

I'm just gonna try and get purple for m9 and m10

[fiery jewel]

fires reply winds reply

[tepid briar]

I'm 790 so I should be fine

but I'm missing some augmented

[torn mesa]

SAM depends on what you consider ranged

[fiery jewel]

maybe I don't mean like DPs neutral

but like

[tepid briar]

I'm happy enough getting purple for my first tier

[fiery jewel]

EPT, Enhanced Enpi, Six-Sided Star all seem like VERY small dps losses

but obv they must be DPs losses are u aren't using them in standard

[torn mesa]

they're like 0.7 GCDs at best

[amber fable]

Enhanced enpi is fair bit weaker

[jolly flume]

I like how nin's works where you can opt to move a raiton out of buffs if pkt or suiton don't line up

in an ideal world it would be nice to have an actual choice to make there because it's just correct to do that but yeah it's better than uncoiled fury lol

[amber fable]

Than melee gcd

[fiery jewel]

thing with DRG and SAM

[amber fable]

Still

[fiery jewel]

is they have very weak combos

like the ranged option is better than atleast half the combo moves

MNK I have no clue it's weird

[torn mesa]

SSS is the best one

[fiery jewel]

but compare Harpe to RPR combo u are losing like half the DPS

[jolly flume]

I love sss

[torn mesa]

between EE, EPT, and SSS

[jolly flume]

goat skill

[torn mesa]

SSS is like 0.8 GCDs

[fiery jewel]

ye

makes sense

[torn mesa]

EE and EPT are both like 0.6-0.7

[fiery jewel]

basically without these ranged options they would just be tank

which 3/4 tank 150 potency is huge loss

[jolly flume]

it even encourages you to greed better because you feel like a fucking moron if you get back on the boss and that slow ass gcd is still rolling

[fiery jewel]

feel like tehy should atleast try to fix that

give them something

ig DRK has one during burst

Diresteem

[amber fable]

Cast bar range gcd isnt exactly better

[fiery jewel]

Harpe is dogshit

but it looks cool

[amber fable]

I rather they keep it insta

[worn bluff]

i think the lesson from heavyweight is that you can design fights where people do ranged gcds and it's fine

[torn mesa]

ranged skills should be a loss to begin with

[fiery jewel]

If they remove RPR casts I become MNK and SAM main

[worn bluff]

people felt uncomfortable about it at first because they weren't used to it

[fiery jewel]

that's the day

[amber fable]

Hs is fine since you have lob

[torn mesa]

that's the point of playing melee

[fiery jewel]

Harpe and Communio instant cast

[amber fable]

If you need movement immediately

[fiery jewel]

🤮

[jolly flume]

yatenpi is kinda cool too I guess

[fiery jewel]

yeah

hopefully right

Q40 was like this also

it's good design

[jolly flume]

although maybe make it cost more than 10 gauge so you're not literally guaranteed to have it available at all times idk

[torn mesa]

I would take thunderclap over it any day

[fiery jewel]

I hope Kefka Ult has stuff like that

[worn bluff]

like if every melee has to do 3-4 ranged attacks on average then what's the problem

[fiery jewel]

idec if the check is tuned slightly easier to compensate

[worn bluff]

you're losing dps but relative to who

[fiery jewel]

VPR, RPR and NIN specifcally can chain like 4 neutral ranged options

[amber fable]

Clearing vs not clearing

[torn mesa]

RPR cannot

[fiery jewel]

well maybe Chain is the wrong term for RPR

[jolly flume]

vpr isn't even a melee job anymore

[fiery jewel]

but there are scenarios were u can do like

[worn bluff]

if it's tuned with the assumption that there are disengages then it's fine

[fiery jewel]

Harvest, Plentiful Harvest, Communio, Perfectio combos

[torn mesa]

well RPR max is Communio - Harvest Moon, and then 1 of PH or Perfectio

[fiery jewel]

yeah

exactly

[jolly flume]

the potency you lose from disengages across a fight is unironically less impactful than crit variance

[fiery jewel]

real

[jolly flume]

there's no way they can even tune for that to matter

[amber fable]

M11 you can clear with like 90% uptime average across party

It will be close

[fiery jewel]

crit variance was the main issue with 11 I will die on that hill

[amber fable]

But doable

[fiery jewel]

but 11 has no issues besides weaponslop

peak fight

[jolly flume]

well you can argue that it's crit variance in the context of doing mediocre damage

[torn mesa]

Malachite Laurent.video

[worn bluff]

i have like 7 harpes and an LB2 in a rank 30 kill. it really is just crit

[amber fable]

Huh

[fiery jewel]

Malachite lol

[amber fable]

Crit?

Idk man

[jolly flume]

I cloooooose my eeeeeyes

I hear it in my head

[amber fable]

Average ilvl of 775 with 9 deaths clear m11

[torn mesa]

do you visualize it in your head

[jolly flume]

yeah

[amber fable]

What crit even kek

[jolly flume]

I see him opening everyone's character menus

mousing over the weapons

[fiery jewel]

I agree with Noble though kinda

we in an issue rn where only like 7/10 of the Melee Jobs have consistent ~neutral ranged options

so either just remove these ranged options which would kill identity for Jobs like RPR, NIN, PLD.

or give the other 3 tanks decent ranged options

it's hard ngl

[amber fable]

Is harpe really identity?

[fiery jewel]

it's not just Harpe

but yea

[worn bluff]

it's like a little baseball

[fiery jewel]

RPR is magic job so it needs to have cast times

and ranged actions

[worn bluff]

communio is big baseball

[fiery jewel]

same for NIN

[jolly flume]

reaper is shohei ohtani?

[fiery jewel]

like NIN in FF it uses magic so it should have ranged options and it's a dex job