this has not been the case
#endgame-lounge
jolly flume
tepid briar
instead of just hard hitters
teal hill
Non Healer Jobs are getting a lot mroe healing in general
vestal hollow
w-why
tepid briar
probably more mechanics like ifrit
rapid whale
bro imagine OT warrior gets kardia for the mt
kindred bison
we'll see why
rapid whale
LMAOO
tepid briar
where you have to balance healing and damage?
teal hill
Dragoon didn't have it, but Bard's Radiant Finale has a heal and one of the songs had a regen
kindred bison
most likely eat the reason why to the face
pallid kindle
bro imagine OT warrior gets kardia for the mt
Kardia + Dance Kardia + Nascent Flash on MT
terse zodiac
dragoon did have a heal but its just moving life surge into jump
teal hill
Also Paladin got a new skill called Round Table that is a party-wide heal after doing Passage of Arms.
pallid kindle
adding more healing to the rest of the jobs doesnt make sense if they wnat healers to heal
teal hill
Just more healing sources in general
terse zodiac
paladin looked like it had some sort of heal buff after countering but could have been placeholder
pallid kindle
unless we're getting mechanics that do half your healthbar 4 times in a row
teal hill
Again I wouldn't be surprised if Dancer got that as well
pallid kindle
and then a full health doom immediately after
teal hill
I mean
jolly flume
there are too few healer players already and healer players already suck ass
teal hill
Reborn is still getting some of these
terse zodiac
for heal cadence very basic idea you can look at white mage, you get 3 gcd heals per 30 seconds before you lose damage
teal hill
Reborn Bard's songs will almost surely be the same effects as Evolved
Since they can no longer be raidwide DPS buff
terse zodiac
so its not like we're getting a massive overhaul to incoming damage profiles
hearty shore
unless we're getting mechanics that do half your healthbar 4 times in a row
but remember they commited to making all content is clearable by all jobs ... so they can't make it unclearable without those jobs in other words this will always be "overheal"
teal hill
so its not like we're getting a massive overhaul to incoming damage profiles
But we are just factually getting more sources of healing outside of healers themselves
Like that is something that is happening
Sure the healing might not be a whole lot, but it' still there
vestal hollow
"factually"
pallid kindle
remove second wind from all dps
versed kayak
based on what tho
teal hill
"factually"
We've seen them
dapper zealot
So much for speculation
versed kayak
iirc smn currently has a heal on their phoenix
dnc already has a heal too
teal hill
remove second wind from all dps
Theyre still gonna have second wind
vestal hollow
we have all of four jobs that prove that, two of which (pld and brd) have heals/supportive actions already, and drg has none
4 jobs do not extrapolate to 48
pallid kindle
dnc has curing waltz and improv
teal hill
It's not unprecedented, but it's still notable that Jobs that didn't have this before are getting it
hearty shore
we have all of four jobs that prove that, two of which (pld and brd) have heals/...
no really they had a huge disclamer that it's subject to change without notice at the top we don't know final build
tired egret
tbh I'd keep Poetics around
tepid briar
what even is modified for the new ex
tired egret
still for what is essentially it's current purpose
hearty shore
tbh I'd keep Poetics around
me to .. more clean for old content and saves dev time for them
jolly flume
non support jobs already have too many defensives
vestal hollow
again speculation is fine, but to act like certain things are absolutely happening at this point in time is silly
terse zodiac
keep in mind bard is losing minne and damage buffs so throwing a little support to the songs isn't really indicative of anything
jolly flume
it's kinda stupid
pallid kindle
they're prob keeping poetics unless they want to change how you obtain a ton of items
tired egret
yeah definetly
vestal hollow
they dont even have the new jobs ready to be shown
tired egret
at minimum do something like, increase the cap
dapper zealot
They just need to increase poetics cap to 4k
teal hill
Just do 10k at that point
kindred bison
my guess is poetics will get a cap increase, due to the other tomes being removed, and then everything up through DT will use Poetics
pallid kindle
im not sure if capped tomes is gonna change outside of being able to go back to past weeks
versed kayak
It's not unprecedented, but it's still notable that Jobs that didn't have this b...
the single support-y dps job we saw got it, we don't even know if they'll keep that
Or if thats something they'll give to everyone (doubt they will)
teal hill
the single support-y dps job we saw got it, we don't even know if they'll keep t...
There are no tomes
kindred bison
yes they did
teal hill
Whoops wrong reply
kindred bison
there's no tome farming
hearty shore
my guess is poetics will get a cap increase, due to the other tomes being remove...
yeah leaving poetics in the game is just very clean for "retired" content no need to reinvent the wheel
teal hill
The Weeklies system is replacing tome entirely
There are no more weekly tomestone caps
kindred bison
cause there's only Poetics
trim frost
did they say how old stuff using poetics (anima weapons etc) is gonna change
terse zodiac
well they showed only poetics when talking about tomes being repetitive
pallid kindle
you think they're gonna let you level past BPs at all or just make the rewards obtainable an expansion after its done
teal hill
We'll know more about the weekly system in Tokyo
boreal pumice
there's no tome farming
man that makes the jokes in shb /ew alliance raid kinda moot what are these things the new players ask
pallid kindle
they should just keep poetics
vestal hollow
so my phone looks like the tomephone emote
i want to get one of those matte screen protectors for mine
pallid kindle
increase the cap of poetics and its fine
teal hill
What I'm really interested in as well is
The new Raid difficulty
That is going to be very interesting
vestal hollow
just means savage will be harder
hearty shore
increase the cap of poetics and its fine
yeah 4k poetic cap sound nice ... enough to buy a full set of gear once you hit a capstone with a new job you leveling etc
pallid kindle
just means savage will be harder
lol
teal hill
I mean
kindred bison
i don't think savage will be harder
vestal hollow
i think it will
teal hill
If you're not a Savage raider, the Midcore difficulty probably will be your 'weekly chore'
vestal hollow
look at merchant's tale
kindred bison
i think the new difficulty will be like Savage, but stuff doesn't do the instant death
dapper zealot
just means savage will be harder
I would imagine it'd be similar to advance. Kinda the same as savage but more lenient
jolly flume
I am speaking specifically as someone who already does savage weekly and doesnt want to add the new diff to the list
teal hill
I think there's gonna be other things that "Hard Mode" won't do
boreal pumice
i think the new difficulty will be like Savage, but stuff doesn't do the instant...
you thinking like drn 3 strikes and you die?
teal hill
For example I don't think Hard Mode is gonna get the 4th floor second phase
hearty shore
i think the new difficulty will be like Savage, but stuff doesn't do the instant...
i wonder if they make the new difficulty that is between savage and normal be able to que through normal party finder
teal hill
Just a long first phase
pallid kindle
also when would this difficulty release
is it gonna be on savage launch or on raid launch
jolly flume
almost certainly alongside savage
vestal hollow
For example I don't think Hard Mode is gonna get the 4th floor second phase
it's not hard mode it's midcore
teal hill
We don't know and it's difficult either way
jolly flume
I can't see it coming out early
pallid kindle
it should be savage
teal hill
it's not hard mode it's midcore
Hard mode, midcore, whatever.
jolly flume
or else they show their hand more than they'd like with mechanics
pallid kindle
what its a wild animal?
teal hill
Normal -> Feral -> Savage makes sense to me
pallid kindle
they could just call it advanced lol
versed kayak
i wonder if they make the new difficulty that is between savage and normal be ab...
thats just casual content then, df cant do much more
teal hill
they could just call it advanced lol
They like giving silly new names with every new difficulty mode
zealous meteor
as long as it doesn't drop anything that makes it a weekly chore
i kinda expect it to either drop the same stuff as savage but slower (so fewer/no direct drops and needing more tokens), or drop stuff that's worse than savage but better than you can get from normal
pallid kindle
also they didnt talk about a 2nd chaotic at all
hearty shore
thats just casual content then, df cant do much more
can que extreams ...
versed kayak
yeah and you're not clearing them if you get in
visual geyser
also they didnt talk about a 2nd chaotic at all
They didn’t talk about any side content
tepid briar
i kinda expect it to either drop the same stuff as savage but slower (so fewer/n...
maybe 780?
versed kayak
you can technically queue for savage right now
zealous meteor
can que extreams ...
you can queue extreme but that doesn't mean it's gonna pop
kindred bison
the only side content they mentioned was 24 Man
pallid kindle
They didn’t talk about any side content
they didnt even say they're making one
versed kayak
zealous meteor
and even if it pops you're not gonna clear anything past like... HW at most
boreal pumice
yeah and you're not clearing them if you get in
well some if its arr maybe abit of hw otherwise nah ppl are gone
terse zodiac
we know at the very least they're looking at changing the loot structures, so would not be shocking at all if savage loot gets changed hard
teal hill
My guess is a bit different:
I think 'Feral'/Midcore is gonna drop gear that is 10 ilvl lower - BUT if yo uclear the entirety of the wing in a week, you can upgrade one piece to Savage level
kindred bison
wouldn't be the first time
dapper zealot
Lemme make an alt rq and join
jolly flume
honestly the easiest thing they could've done is allow savage drops to be traded for their tome equivalents
hearty shore
you can queue extreme but that doesn't mean it's gonna pop
i think some mentors will disagree 😄 (they get those mentor extreams 😄 )
visual geyser
Well they said chaotic requires an ultimate level designer so idk if we get one anytime soon
versed kayak
you can queue for chaotic even, the only thing you can't queue for is ultis
pallid kindle
My guess is a bit different:
I think 'Feral'/Midcore is gonna drop gear that is...
this would still make it another chore for savage players unless you can only get rewards from one or the other
versed kayak
Lemme make an alt rq and join
sick, should shorten the wait a bit
kindred bison
well i'm aiming for the Scenario Designer job at SE...
teal hill
this would still make it another chore for savage players unless you can only ge...
To that I say....eh, fuck it?
kindred bison
i want to make Chaotics.
teal hill
They're making gearing so mcuh easier anyway
jolly flume
a shared lockout is something they might do
teal hill
You only have to gear one Job
If you can do both Midcore and Savage to gear up faster then even better
jolly flume
you only have to gear one to cap your item level but there is zero information on what that will do with your substats
there's a pretty solid chance it won't be true bis and you will still need to farm those pieces for an ultimate
pallid kindle
but if you do a shared lockout
terse zodiac
low key idc if i get another chore 4 middle difficulty raids as long as dailies are out lmao
zealous meteor
i think some mentors will disagree 😄 (they get those mentor extreams 😄 )
the chances of anything past HW popping are so close to zero that it's not relevant
terse zodiac
replacing 5 expert dungeons a week with 4 raids is a win to me
teal hill
Shared lockout will just create a segregated playerbase
versed kayak
You only have to gear one Job
assuming you keep stuff like materia when you sync over your ilvl
teal hill
assuming you keep stuff like materia when you sync over your ilvl
You don't, but that's hyperoptimization by the game's standards anyway
hearty shore
yeah also i think they made it clear you won't be optimal for projecting the ilvl cause there is still materia and substats etc so you can't get away with 1 gear set
kindred bison
it's just that the mid tier would give less than savage.
dapper zealot
assuming you keep stuff like materia when you sync over your ilvl
They said it wont, only syncs ilvl
teal hill
They explicitly said they want the midcore difficulty to be a 'third path' of gearing.
kindred bison
that's what i'm thinking
terse zodiac
there was a whole tab on the mockup page for savage gear so very likely something big is changing
dapper zealot
Getting bis will require you to actually gear the alt job
kindred bison
cause they mentioned about changes to how totems work
pallid kindle
yeah also i think they made it clear you won't be optimal for projecting the ilv...
you still need BiS gear if you want bis but its a very good change for everyone
teal hill
The first path is Savage
The second path is Tomes(Now the new Weekly system)
Third path is going to be midcore.
terse zodiac
naw there was a whole row on top for gear progression in the season pass
teal hill
Again my guess is:
(Unaugmented) Tome equivalent gear as drop -> Once a week, you upgrade one to Savage
Savage still gears faster, but Midcore is there as a safety net and for people who don't care about Savage
jolly flume
I don't know what the point of dropping true bis out of midcore would even be, the target audience of that content is not the kind of person who would have anything to do with said bis anyways
it's kinda just feelsgood number go up
terse zodiac
i'm pretty sure he never said that, he said there would be other ways to get gear not midcore is a 3rd new way and the only way lol
teal hill
i'm pretty sure he never said that, he said there would be other ways to get gea...
I'm gonna get the exact timestamp
terse zodiac
whats the point of having a whole track of the season pass called "gear progress" if it's not used for gear progression
kindred bison
Ealter, what role do you play?
teal hill
Big tank boy primarily
kindred bison
dang
teal hill
Why?
loud swift
Big tank boy primarily
Which tank
teal hill
"and this is going to be *one of those routes*"
If we want to be pedantic he specifically said 'it's all about building that third route'
teal hill
Which tank
Paladin and Gunbreaker
loud swift
dang
teal hill
So no you can't do the Warrior thing either
loud swift
I had a strategy board just for warriors
teal hill
Anyway it doesn't really matter
We know Midcor will give item level rewards
And things that can upgrade your gear
How and in what form is kind of up in the air at this moment, but it WILL have that.
hearty shore
either way i am exited about what is coming 🙂
teal hill
That's called Balmung
wicked delta
https://tenor.com/view/ffxiv-gif-17389910283715966150
pov you are chiyo shiomi on white mage
jolly flume
sigh
rotund summit
i wonder if the 24m changes will be along the lines of advanced
split the encounters and make a hard mode
teal hill
Eh, probably not
rotund summit
but that is probably WILDLY hopeful for what it would end up being
teal hill
24man has Chaotic and even then it's something different
dusk sky
The slide said it was focused on progression routes, so I think more likely about gearing or looting
A token system, for example
visual geyser
I have no idea what the 24man change even means
craggy marsh
They have the funniest thing they can do and make Ramiel be Ozma 2.0
tulip anvil
what enuo strat do you think is gonna survive, CW > CW or CW > CCW
craggy marsh
probably CW > CW since that's the one hector shows
craggy marsh
why do the weapons fart
dapper zealot
why do the weapons fart
Such is the power of the void
quick flame
AST one is even better
trim frost
literal black hole at the tip
i'm going to stay mature.
shy obsidian
how am I supposed to feel about these
quick flame
the draw animation where they matterialize is pretty baller
shy obsidian
the black hole looks good when flat but really weirdly smooth when in an orb shape
quick flame
if it had an accretion disk that would be amazing
trim frost
i'm not motivated to do this ex
shy obsidian
gotta hope they look better when we can make em shiny
sleek moon
Best I can do is some purple particles
shy obsidian
i've only got the Wings of Ruin and Wings of Eternity so far.. i need to catch up
Zoraal Ja and Zelenia are scaring me with a totem per clear tho
trim frost
also idk
dapper zealot
huh everkeep is only 1 totem?
trim frost
maybe i just don't care about the void anymore when we already got multiple void based trials
dapper zealot
wtf
trim frost
1/2 being single keeps the pattern from endwalker
shy obsidian
thank god I didn't need to fight Valigarmanda that much..
trim frost
4... yeah we have no idea lmfao
shy obsidian
i literally got the Wings of Ruin in like. my first 2 runs
random needle
Zelenia is not a fight I wanna do 99 times, I'll say that much
shy obsidian
4... yeah we have no idea lmfao
something something no funny second phase
random needle
Yes, ma'am, I feel the sting of your divine blade
trim frost
i think at the time of early 7.x they thought 2 totems was still an overcorrection so they wanted to revert it for fights that "weren't as long" or something
shy obsidian
Valigarmanda, Zoraal Ja and Zelenia don't really have a (lasting) intermission phase
trim frost
3 being two totems was justified by the fight technically being kinda long because of the second phase
like a minute longer maybe
quick flame
i've only got the Wings of Ruin and Wings of Eternity so far.. i need to catch u...
eternity is prob the hardest EX so thats out of the way
shy obsidian
Sphene????
trim frost
but then like is one minute's difference worth a 50% reduction in efficiency
shy obsidian
hard????
trim frost
ice was hard yes
round hazel
ICE BRIDGE
shy obsidian
like the ice thing is a bit tricky but I wouldn't call it hard...
round hazel
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
trim frost
because pf is stupid
round hazel
shy obsidian
oh yeah I still haven't learned how to fight Necron properly yet
quick flame
spleen has a soft enrage becayse if you dont kill her before ice phase its usually a PF wipe lol
random needle
Speen definitely seemed tougher on content, but I think she explodes well before ice phase now
trim frost
tbh i was kinda over sphene after multiple parties that couldn't do meteors but i got invited to a clear party and it was chill
shy obsidian
I've gotten past the shadow realm phase cleanly but everything else is an enigma to me
quick flame
zelenia to 99 was pain though
trim frost
and then in a subsequent farm party some tank was bitching about dps players (i can't remember why) and then he missed a tower in p2 and wiped everyone and left immediately from embarrassment
quick flame
how is farming doom train? clearing that on patch was rough for me
shy obsidian
Zelenia is like. super ez pz to fight once you get into the rhythm
shy obsidian
how is farming doom train? clearing that on patch was rough for me
50 runs at most :)
you won't suffer for long
and even then the fight keeps you on your toes
fun extreme :)
shy obsidian
its' really awkward to greed...
especially since you often have to keep running back every time the train car's about to come off 😭
Zoraal Ja's hot as fuck fight makes me wanna sleep lol
it's that easy
trim frost
the last time i did vali was in a pf with bapple and everyone else was doing worse dps than us it was really sad
shy obsidian
thank god I didn't suffer that long in that fight
trim frost
not really hard just kinda bruh
random needle
I still don't have a single wings because I don't have the attention span for farming :(
trim frost
and then i remember when i was doing a bit of zodiark farming during 7.0 the viper wasn't applying noxious at all
farming is buns when you're doing it alone
u gotta have friends in vc or smth
random needle
True!
trim frost
True~
wicked delta
True~
vestal hollow
True~
quick flame
the final wings are gonna pretty nice to have in evercold since so many people decided not to play during dawntrail XD
random needle
I'm hanging all of you (in Minecraft)
trim frost
why is there a fucking manga tl note in my grok
wicked delta
You just needed to know
round burrow
Me in the m11s arena
vestal hollow
why is there a fucking manga tl note in my grok
you needed to know senpai
visual geyser
sphene outfit is ugly asf ngl
trim frost
you needed to know senpai
ウォォォォ
random needle
sphene outfit is ugly asf ngl
We needed the real Sphene fit
random needle
And I needed the Lamaty'i fit 3:<
visual geyser
its a shame that the community wouldnt act normal if they did
zealous meteor
And *I* needed the Lamaty'i fit 3:<
how would it look on a blue cat
zealous meteor
the best content this patch is in 7.50, 7.51, and 7.55 (fish)
vestal hollow
Chorty like a melody in my head 🎵🤍
random needle
I want Chort to do a body weight exorcism on me 🩵
visual geyser
Beastmaster needs to be able to tame chort
tepid briar
her name was halmarut
would hug
craggy marsh
why is the best content this patch in sept
7.5 is good but uhhh yeah BST in September is a long ass wait
craggy marsh
BST got announced before DT released and then it's just now getting added when there will be only 3 months left of DT
visual geyser
good content but the wait is abysmal
craggy marsh
zealous meteor
ult in june is crazy too ngl
tbf 7.5 was very very late april and 7.51 is june 2nd
a month for .x1 is standard
craggy marsh
June is what I expected but I really feel like they could've shipped BST earlier than September
sleek moon
for ultimates the standard is 2 weeks
jolly flume
June is what I expected but I really feel like they could've shipped BST earlier...
sorry they have no money
visual geyser
for ultimates the standard is 2 weeks
ye this
craggy marsh
sorry they have no money
XIV is keeping SE afloat pretty much and they give the devs pennies man
Hearing the CEO promise they're going to give Yoshi whatever he needs at Fanfest was neat and all but I still press X to doubt
zealous meteor
for ultimates the standard is 2 weeks
oh i see 
craggy marsh
you can never trust the words of a NFT AI lover
thin fox
I assume .x1 is later than usual because its also cosmic? 7.41 was also 6w after 7.4
zealous meteor
you can never trust the words of a NFT AI lover
wasn't that the previous CEO
craggy marsh
wasn't that the *previous* CEO
I think the current CEO also likes NFT and AI
or maybe it's just AI
zealous meteor
all CEOs are bastards 
craggy marsh
either way they're both shitty people
jolly flume
all the ceos love AI
zealous meteor
i was really annoyed when he got up on stage but luckily he just performed a humiliation ritual
so i can forgive him
craggy marsh
Nah I never forgive a clanker lover
random needle
Nah I never forgive a clanker lover
It feels like it sniped everyone over 40, is the problem
craggy marsh
It feels like it sniped everyone over 40, is the problem
Honestly the Koji stuff idc about bc it was obvious he was making fun of it
zealous meteor
so what i'm hearing is... we should take computers away from everyone over 40
zealous meteor
Honestly the Koji stuff idc about bc it was obvious he was making fun of it
yeah i don't know why people were like "KOJI IS PROBLEMATIC???" after the presentation
random needle
Because no one understands irony 
craggy marsh
yeah i don't know why people were like "KOJI IS PROBLEMATIC???" after the presen...
like, you can clearly hear him diss the CEO when he mentions AI
random needle
Or at least, no one on the bird site
zealous meteor
Because no one understands irony <:PensiveCowboy:972368624998289418>
no that's not why. they understand irony (sometimes) but anyone using AI, for any reason, in any capacity, is immediately Tainted and must be shunned
flint ledge
mb
zealous meteor
XIV players aren't the brightest
then why did hydaelyn call me her brave little spark 
sparks are bright...
craggy marsh
then why did hydaelyn call me her brave little spark <:neofox_pleading:112467965...
bc she was being nice
rapid whale
Dam
random needle
Do you think the Ascians ever went down to the bottom of the Aitiascope to shittalk in person
zealous meteor
slurs for sundered peoples
zealous meteor
Do you think the Ascians ever went down to the bottom of the Aitiascope to shitt...
i hope they did
craggy marsh
Do you think the Ascians ever went down to the bottom of the Aitiascope to shitt...
100%
zealous meteor
i would be SHOCKED if fandaniel never considered it
thin fox
zealous meteor
oh dear
zealous meteor
literal dialup speed
random needle
i hope they did
Imagine being Venat, seeing Emet-Selch come down to bitch at you for ruining the star, and the whole time you have to act like you don't know the exact date and time of his death
vestal hollow
that fixed it
vestal hollow
literal dialup speed
i knew something was wrong when it took 90 seconds to upload a 1.5mb gif
zealous meteor
Imagine being Venat, seeing Emet-Selch come down to bitch at you for ruining the...
idk i don't think emet would do that
lahabrea, though? he definitely monologued to her every other moon
craggy marsh
I bet the interaction was basically this
jolly flume
man
random needle
idk i don't think emet would do that
lahabrea, though? he definitely monologued ...
Emet had to have had at least one real bad day during that whole time
jolly flume
I want a pepsi
zealous meteor
queue for A3
zealous meteor
Emet had to have had at *least* one real bad day during that whole time
nah he would just brood over it
tight wing
hey, rep 1 as a ranged its the same no matter if i do DN or CR right?
zealous meteor
are we finally cancelling chiyo shiomi
wicked delta
new gdoc dropped
send
random needle
Docs aren't even events anymore bruh 💀
There's like two a week, and they're about the most mundane shit imagineable
wicked delta
ok wait yeah is this about crimes or relationship drama
zealous meteor
99% of google docs are relationship drama that someone is trying to twist into evidence of crimes
craggy marsh
There's like two a week, and they're about the most mundane shit imagineable
It's always high-school tier drama
We need actual sauce again
Can someone rent out another billboard and put a naked miqo on it or something
random needle
Everyone has been chasing the dragon of that billboard and no one has come even remotely close
teal hill
clear plume
new gdoc dropped
need
craggy marsh
what's the spice
flat bane
am I capping or does letting the add cast drain touch kill it faster
cause I forgot to interrupt and it lost 80% of its hp
tight wing
where
flat bane
ex7
teal hill
Thsi might be a slightly toxic question but
Do you all recognize when a player you're queued up with is a skipper?
And I don't mean cutscene skipper I mean full on skipped entire expansions
Cause I sure do 
torn mesa
I can assure you, the terrible players you get in your roulette are not just skippers
they're just bad
tulip wraith
some of the bad players are people who love the story 
hearty shore
Do you all recognize when a player you're queued up with is a skipper?
the point is you will only recognize those that you recognized right those who you can;t recognize you didn;t recognize so you dont know how many skippers you accually ever qued with
teal hill
the point is you will only recognize those that you recognized right those who y...
What
pallid kindle
Do you all recognize when a player you're queued up with is a skipper?
sprout in DT content is usually a sign
jolly flume
I can point out to you as many story worshipping msq enjoying 2000 hours spent in game players that suck ass as I can people who skip that suck
pallid kindle
being bad on top of that basically confirms it
jolly flume
can we stop treating skipping like a moral failing
pallid kindle
being bad doesnt mean you skipped story but being bad AND a sprout is almost a confirmation
boreal pumice
skipper or not some ppl are just plain shit , look at DT dungeons at the start
hearty shore
but yeah the people i knew skipped were people with cutsense in under level 40 dungeon have the skipper level 90 gear and no tank stance on
craggy marsh
it's not like watching the cutscenes makes you a better player so I don't understand the point
hearty shore
if i see you watch cutsene in under level 50 stuff and you have level 90 gear ...
teal hill
I remember one specific time in Shadowbringers era, I was doing Amaurot in roulette and there was this one healer who just did nothing but GCD spam heals
Not a single attack was made
jolly flume
reminds me of the autoduty discourse on twitter where people think botters are ruining their roulettes
teal hill
And like I get it in fucking Sastasha or Copperbell but Amaurot?
jolly flume
I regret to inform you that those are real human beings that play like trash
hearty shore
it's not like watching the cutscenes makes you a better player so I don't unders...
point is they got first time doing duty cutsene and they are level 90+ in a mandatory MSQ dungeon
torn mesa
If the average player you met in your duty roulette was as good as a bot
The quality of roulettes would drastically improve
boreal pumice
some ppl dont put on the auto skip on if you already seen that cutscene , some ppl leave it on to stall for time if they wanna go for a drink or something
flat bane
I regret to inform you that those are real human beings that play like trash
yep, knew someone that ragequitted doing the ff15 garuda instance as a red mage on very easy mode
craggy marsh
Ya I didn't know the auto skip cutscene thing existed until I was midway through SHB
flat bane
no I am not kidding.
sinful brook
Idk I think trying to justify why they're playing like shit as because they're using skips is silly
They're just ass at the game
That person themself
hearty shore
also the fact they were exactly level 90 (the level you skip to) and had the skipper gear was a give away for me
sinful brook
Has nothing to do with whether they skipped
pallid kindle
i had a tank wipe the party in bismark earlier because they didnt split ads some people just suck
teal hill
Well theyr'e connected
hearty shore
and yes it was single pulling tank without stance on
sinful brook
Skipping or not skipping would not have made the difference
They were going to suck either way
teal hill
Skippers are naturalyl worsep layers by baseline because they have less experience than someone who did all the content in sequence
boreal pumice
skipping or not doesnt matter what does is learning your job thats it no ifs no buts no coconuts
jolly flume
experience doesn't matter
sinful brook
Skippers are naturalyl worsep layers by baseline because they have less experien...
Not true at all.
jolly flume
willingness to not suck does
teal hill
Like believe it or not, it may not feell ike it to you, but the MSQ does filter some people
sinful brook
You weren't necessarily going to learn anything
The game might show you
But if you are an uneducated neanderthal
You won't learn
torn mesa
Skippers are naturalyl worsep layers by baseline because they have less experien...
dungeons and normal raids are simple enough that what separates people who suck or not isn't skipping the MSQ
sinful brook
Lead a horse to water and all that
teal hill
There are some people who just straight up mistify me
Like absoltue 0 attempts to figure out what they're doing
pallid kindle
i had a RDM in zodiark normal with level 50 gear some people are just bad and know nothing
jolly flume
willingness to not suck does
.
torn mesa
Yes, there are extremely bad players in this game. But those players being bad has little if any correlation to them skipping the story
sinful brook
Yeah and I assure you if they didn't skip those people will still be just as terrible
jolly flume
I'm gonna be honest
jolly flume
I think the ppl that story skip to get to endgame probably have more drive to improve than your average msq enjoyer
even if they suck at first
lol
torn mesa
cause they don't give a fuck about getting better?
teal hill
I think the ppl that story skip to get to endgame probably have more drive to im...
You would be surprised
jolly flume
I would not be surprised
torn mesa
channy already used the can't make a horse drink even if you lead it to a river.
that's the bottom of the barrel playerbase in this game.
jolly flume
I have 8500 hours in the game and I've gotten plenty of people into raiding
shadow pilot
some don't know how to improve so they suck
some don't care how to improve so they suck even more
sinful brook
Yeah the pretty colours and lights do enough to activate their one braincell and dopamine
boreal pumice
chiyo is gonna tell them the story of zane the skipper 
teal hill
The thing is, a lot of those people you're describing
think they're good at the game
They're not
pallid kindle
do they actually think they're good
hearty shore
but yeah probably you can;t tell with most skippers the one you can tell are the obvious ones as i said before
sinful brook
Yeah but skipping or not skipping doesn't affect that
pallid kindle
or do they not think about it at all
craggy marsh
I think the ppl that story skip to get to endgame probably have more drive to im...
I don't blame story skippers bc if you just want to play with your friends then maybe forcing them to play through 5 expansions isn't a good idea
sinful brook
They're born that stupid
teal hill
do they actually think they're good
I've had several people that obviously didn't know fuckall try to raidlead
jolly flume
I literally don't care about skipping man I just wish people would stop holding it over everyone's heads like it makes you a worse human being for doing so
craggy marsh
ya
shadow pilot
Skipping cutscenes???? Rahhhhhh /j
craggy marsh
Most story skippers I know usually have alts they use for the story anyways
but their main is for content
teal hill
Also again this isn't about STORY skippers
craggy marsh
like raids
teal hill
This is about those who use the PAID SKIP
torn mesa
yes we are aware
sinful brook
Job skippers isn't any different
jolly flume
I used the paid skip and so did many of my friends
torn mesa
that is literally what we're responding to
craggy marsh
paid skips are also fine too
sinful brook
Same discussion
jolly flume
I think we turned out okay lol
sinful brook
Both story and job skips are paid
torn mesa
skip of any kind, whether it's skipping CS for quest, skipping the entire MSQ, or buying a 90 boost for a job
sinful brook
ESC skip cutscene experience is the same as buying a story skip
torn mesa
does not make someone a bad player
teal hill
With story skippers I usually envision people who go through the MSQ but skip all cutscenes
teal hill
does not make someone a bad player
Inherently? No, on average? Yeah
torn mesa
On average, it does not make them better or worse than anyone else you find in DF.
pallid kindle
its not like the normal content the MSQ has you do is actually teaching you a whole lot
hearty shore
for me the signs (flags) you get cutsene in ARR duty when you get inspected you are in level 90 gear (not gurantee but high chance they a skipper)
jolly flume
you know what does make you worse at the game inherently
teal hill
Oh nobody is denying you can have people with 10k hours who don't know how to hit their 123s that's totally true
pallid kindle
you COULD skip most of the story and you will be mostly fine
jolly flume
being homeworlded on crystal
clear plume
id say there is a skew where people from other mmos are fine bc ffxiv story content is piss easy
torn mesa
Chiyo I was literally going to bring that up...
clear plume
but
jolly flume
xdd
torn mesa
Crystal statistically has the lowest clear rates, and you'll get flamed for that.
pallid kindle
also the game is not friendly to new players wanting to get to endgame when theres a 400 hour long story
and EC isnt doing anything to fix that
neither did DT
sinful brook
With story skippers I usually envision people who go through the MSQ but skip al...
Doesn't really change whether they suck less
clear plume
peoople who only play gachas and shooters should not try and story skip ffxiv bc theyre the cold hotdogwater level players
teal hill
I'm skeptical it's something that 'needs' fixing.
boreal pumice
you can do the full no skips and still be a cure 1 carol heal bot
teal hill
Those 400 hours ARE the videogame
jolly flume
no
pallid kindle
you could make that like 20 and you'd be just as good
teal hill
You hating it doesn't make it false
craggy marsh
it's possible for a game to be too big for new players to get in to
jolly flume
it is categorically false
wicked delta
Most of msq is a glorifed visual novel idk
jolly flume
lol
shadow pilot
lol
clear plume
those 400 hours does not have The Omega Protocol (Ultimate) in them even
shadow pilot
Oh my god
pallid kindle
from sastasha to praetorium im not sure what you learn
shadow pilot
pallid kindle
im not sure what makes you a better player having gone through any of those besides just playing the game,
which
craggy marsh
from sastasha to praetorium im not sure what you learn
hell what do the HW dungeons even teach you
boreal pumice
from sastasha to praetorium im not sure what you learn
orange circle bad
sleek moon
Crystal statistically has the lowest clear rates, and you'll get flamed for that...
tbf its not like being in that DC inherently makes you unable to clear content lol
torn mesa
tbf its not like being in that DC inherently makes you unable to clear content l...
never said that?
pallid kindle
sastasha is the most important dungeon in ARR because its the first one you do and thats like the only reason
teal hill
it is categorically false
I mean, you're a skipper, you would think that.
hearty shore
yeah esspecially if you are DPS ... you can do rotaiton wrong and doesn;t matter if healer and tank are half know what they doing
pallid kindle
?
sleek moon
never said that?
you didnt but you literally supported what chiyo said
torn mesa
I just find it funny how the community gets defensive when you say crystal isn't the main raiding DC, while also saying skippers are bad.
jolly flume
I mean, you're a skipper, you would think that.
you say that like I haven't gone back through the entire story
hearty shore
and again the tank can single pull and than even the tank and healer can not know what they doing
jolly flume
and also
pallid kindle
a skipper that just launched the game at level 90 WILL be worse off than someone that actually played the game up to that level
but they can spend a fraction of the time and be just as good if not way better
jolly flume
does the fact that I have played this game for 8500 hours without engaging with the story that much not entirely disprove the point that the entirety or even majority of ffxiv is the msq
boreal pumice
yeah chiyo you skipper with all the legend titles you are bad
torn mesa
you didnt but you literally supported what chiyo said
Yes, and that's not the same thing as saying you can't clear content on crystal?
jolly flume
lol
clear plume
ive played the game from release and I also think if ur a wow vet swapping to ffxiv to try out the raids, youre not actually gaining anything from not skipping
torn mesa
That's saying crystal players on average place less of an emphasis on raiding.
sinful brook
by playing the game
And some people never learn how to play the game but get conceited enough to think they know a lot about the game
torn mesa
Which is once again, supported by data like Tomestone
clear plume
bc even DT msq takes you long enough to learn the basic level knowledge needed
teal hill
does the fact that I have played this game for 8500 hours without engaging with ...
I mean when you put it like that, I guess 400 hours of MSQ isn't that bad, right?
jolly flume
you're avoiding the point
sinful brook
That's saying crystal players on average place less of an emphasis on raiding.
Not me somehow playing 16th as a static on crystal with a week 8 clear of the tier
sleek moon
no the actual wording you agreed with was "being on crystal inherently makes you worse at the game"
teal hill
I'm not sure what point you're attempting to make, to be honest.
pallid kindle
you should not encourage skipping but it really does not matter if you do and you will not be that much worse off
pallid kindle
and you can spend the time you saved learning the game and being better
torn mesa
Did you read what I said after? Specifically
I just find it funny how the community gets defensive when you say crystal isn't the main raiding DC, while also saying skippers are bad.
jolly flume
the point was that you said the 400 hours you spend doing the msq are what comprises the video game
sinful brook
It's not that you should or shouldn't encourage it
teal hill
The question was: "Should Square Enix make it easier to skip content?"
And my answer is no.
pallid kindle
they arguably should
torn mesa
I agreed with him initially mostly out of jest, and then clarified after
sinful brook
You shouldn't force your opinion of skipping onto others
Let them make a decision themselves with the info that is available
And tbown
teal hill
My opinion is that skipping is already allowed if you want to, making it easier does not help the game
clear plume
you should force my opinions onto others
wicked delta
I think they should make content harder to filter people who don’t want to learn, skipper or not 
clear plume
bc its the correct one
sinful brook
Respectfully shut up sometimes about these conversations
teal hill
If there is a 'skip to X expansion' button at character creation, people will press it,be confused, and quit the game. It's what happens.
pallid kindle
Respectfully shut up sometimes about these conversations
craggy marsh
I think they should make content harder to filter people who don’t want to learn...
The Venat duty did a good job of that during EW launch for a bit iirc
sinful brook
There's no other person named tbown here
jolly flume
I have also watched many people not have that button, bounce off the 400 hour wall, and quit the game
wicked delta
The Venat duty did a good job of that during EW launch for a bit iirc
They should do that again
clear plume
idk, wow skips you to the new expansion perfectly fine
torn mesa
The reason I said "I was just about to bring that up" in response to what Chiyo mentioned is that I would argue it is more likely someone's DC has more correlation to their skill as opposed to whether they skipped or not. That is not saying all Crystal players are bad or anything of the sort.
clear plume
nobody tries out that game and just leaves it bc they have to go through a recap of whats happened so far
teal hill
I have also watched many people not have that button, bounce off the 400 hour wa...
The difference is that having a free skip button will churn players away FASTER
jolly flume
and you know that how?
teal hill
Because you'll start out with a full set of a job you don't know about, in a setting you have no knowledge of, interacting with characters and scenarios you have no context for.
clear plume
but anecdotally, ive seen way more people quit ffxiv bc of arr slog than anything else
jolly flume
^
craggy marsh
There's no harm in giving people the option to skip stuff
teal hill
that's prime recipy for 'Wow I don't care' and quitting.
jolly flume
sinful brook
Because you'll start out with a full set of a job you don't know about, in a set...
That's only from the perspective of you're playing for the story
teal hill
That's only from the perspective of you're playing for the story
No, it's the perspective of playing an RPG.
craggy marsh
If someone is skipping stuff then i'm going to assume thy don't care about the characters and scenarios
sinful brook
When theres still plenty to do
teal hill
Which FFXIV, arguably, is.
jolly flume
you're still hung up on this game only being an rpg
sinful brook
Yeah it's an RPG
torn mesa
FFXIV is undoubtedly an RPG.
jolly flume
which as much as people like to push the narrative that it is 90% rpg and 10% mmo
it is not
sinful brook
But the role they're playing in the game is the other stuff available
torn mesa
But an RPG doesn't have to be about story...
teal hill
If you start at the endgame of an RPG you're not going to really care about it, are you?
You have no investment
craggy marsh
You have no investment
depends who the person is
boreal pumice
who cares long as they learn their job i dont give a damn if they like story or not
torn kindle
They’re Roleplaying the housing crisis /j
sinful brook
By logic of what the definition of an RPG is
Doing literally anything in the game fits it
clear plume
why would i need investment to have fun in content designed to be fun
sinful brook
Rpg doesn't mean just the story
craggy marsh
if someone who raids and only cares about playing raids then skipping gives them an advantage bc they just have all the raids available to them without needing to force themselves through 400 hours of content they don't enjoy
clear plume
if you only enjoy the game bc you slogged through msq thats not a game you enjoy, its stockholm syndroms
sinful brook
You assume the role of an in universe character and do stuff
teal hill
Doing literally anything in the game fits it
Let me put it this way:
If Skyrim allowed you to start at level 60 in a random part of the map for free and the story already completed, as your first time playing the game, would you pick it? And if you did, do you really think you would enjoy it?
torn mesa
RPG can just be a gameplay cycle of do content, get gear, do better content to get better gear
sinful brook
Blasting people in a city with fireballs is good fun
jolly flume
I enjoyed the game for 3000 hours before I went back to read the parts of the story I skipped
shrug
craggy marsh
and also what the hell does half of the games early content teach you anyway? Dungeons don't get interesting until mid SB imo
clear plume
thats functionally the exact same as how a lot of people play skyrim?
teal hill
I enjoyed the game for 3000 hours before I went back to read the parts of the st...
This subjective arguement has no weight
sinful brook
This is like saying people skipping gtav story and playing online aren't playing an rpg
jolly flume
all of your arguments are subjective man
clear plume
they cheese early levels bc its fun, pick a random town, and do side quests
torn mesa
This subjective arguement has no weight
ironic you say this, when your entire claim is your subjective standpoint
jolly flume
youre trying to impose your vision of how the game is supposed to be played
sinful brook
And still fits definition and can be fun
clear plume
and 3000 hours later maybe theyll see what this ulfric bro is yapping about
jolly flume
do you not see the hypocrisy
teal hill
do you not see the hypocrisy
It's about game design, fundamentally.
torn mesa
your opinion of game design*
teal hill
The more confusing, overwhelming and out of place a player feels at the start, the more likely they are to go 'nope' and uninstall.
This is just a fact
sinful brook
Not skipping doesn't change that
teal hill
FFXIV, for all its faults, actually has decent onboarding.
clear plume
if it makes you feel better, my neighbour, who is in game design, bounced off of the game bc of arr being too slow
jolly flume
all I'm saying is if you want to make the argument that people will quit the game in droves because they have a story skip button I better see evidence that boils down to more than "because I said so"
torn mesa
it's a fact bro
shadow pilot
If they can they won't sell those job skips or story skips to players
So players can enjoy their vision of 3067098392 hours before doing the content they want
worn bluff
the other thing is FF makes its money through subscriptions. sometimes people just want to play the end content with their friends or others, and if they have to play 100+ hours of story first they might not even bother
torn mesa
like I'm not even saying you're wrong
teal hill
That arguement doesn't matter when 70% of the game is f2p now
clear plume
now can i speak as somebody who was around for the original discourse of job skips being added and how that was gonna be the death of ffxiv
dapper zealot
Many people have dropped the game cause they skipped and got overwhelmed. But many people have also dropped the game because they could not handle going through arr
craggy marsh
Many people have dropped the game cause they skipped and got overwhelmed. But ma...
post arr is usually where they fall off iirc
torn mesa
like the skip button is optional
teal hill
like the skip button is optional
You say it, but that's now how player psychology works.
vale dagger
Really want Evolve mode before 8.0. Over 20 new jobs basically
wicked delta
Im listening to the pokemon theme song right now 
hearty shore
i mean you already get pseudo skip with jobs like GUN or SAG what your agrument there cause the player played before they can read the skills and know how to play ? in the end it boils down to the person some raider from another MMO can easily come into FF14 skip read the skills watch a guide and "be good" (i don't advocate for skipping or skipped myself but i won't say that skipping means you gonna be bad at your job it all boils down to your desire to learn)
teal hill
Sure, some players won't pick the skip button, but when they hear 'Oh its' an MMO and it allows me to skip to the latest content, cool!" they'll press that button because they have no context and trust the game to give them an experience.
torn mesa
You say it, but that's now how player psychology works.
once again, do you have evidence for anything you're claiming
I'm not even saying you're wrong
teal hill
once again, do you have evidence for anything you're claiming
Am I supposed to peer into alternate timelines?
torn mesa
no, but neither are we
jolly flume
if a player downloaded ff for the story they will not press the skip button
if a player downloaded ff to hit bosses they might hit the skip button
I feel like you're pretending video game players don't have the sentience to make their own choices about what they want to play
worn bluff
Sure, some players won't pick the skip button, but when they hear 'Oh its' an MM...
OK but for some people that genuinely is the right choice for them. especially if the story isn't something they will end up caring about anyways
clear plume
i mean if youre quoting game design and player psychology to make yourself the factual source
a paper would be appreciated
a study
torn mesa
The part I disagree with is how adamant you are that giving players the choice to skip or not
clear plume
until things like that are brought up as sources, its just your word
teal hill
Yeah let me produce a study for this Discord arguement about an MMO
torn mesa
is somehow a worse outcome than forcing everyone through the MSQ
teal hill
The part I disagree with is how adamant you are that giving players **the choice...
But they already do
That's the point
jolly flume
Yeah let me produce a study for this Discord arguement about an MMO
look man you cannot use that as an argument after using subjectivity in yours
lol
clear plume
giving people the choice to skip vs the choice to spend $50 to skip is not the same, otherwise you wouldnt be here arguing that giving it will ruin peoples enjoyment of the game
teal hill
look man you cannot use that as an argument after using subjectivity in yours
I mean your entire counter-arguement was 'Well it worked for me'.
trim frost
what is it this time 🚬
jolly flume
yes
torn mesa
bcause that's your argument as well??
jolly flume
and you challenged that with
clear plume
can you at least have a consistent viewpoint instead of just trying to rabble rouse?
jolly flume
"that's your subjective opinion"
so if you're going to say that about my takes
you should do better with your own
no?
vale dagger
Damn $50 to skip? That seems too expensive. Price of a videogame.
sinful brook
its not that expensive here to skip lol
jolly flume
it's like $20 or something
sinful brook
guildwars 2 also lets you skip like that
sinful brook
in fact you don't have to do the story at all
teal hill
I'm not saying we should remove the skip potion or whatever.
vale dagger
Oh good. Still think mounts is overpriced
karmic sorrel
I skipped
craggy marsh
it's like $20 or something
$20 to skip to peak
sinful brook
and you can still hand level to 80 there
craggy marsh
worth it
sinful brook
your enjoyment of this game is not impacted by you skipping or not skipping
trim frost
would you skip this 💔
teal hill
What I am saying is that since that option exists, making it any easier woudl be more harmful than good
sinful brook
like its a role playing game since you were arguing that point
wicked delta
would you skip this 💔
Fat
sinful brook
role playing is not simply just the story
teal hill
If a player trly, honestly, does not care about wanting a linear RPG experience, they can pay the tax to endgame
vale dagger
I want like a leveling boost. How much is one currently? $10?
torn mesa
What I am saying is that since that option exists, making it any easier woudl be...
I mean, I still disagree with this.
and neither of us can really convince one another as is.
sinful brook
I want like a leveling boost. How much is one currently? $10?
!faq skips
storm frostBOT
sinful brook
links to the skips
torn mesa
because any argument we make, as others have pointed out, boils down to this is my opinion vs your's
trim frost
tbh i might do a level n story skip for my alt
sinful brook
you cna check
clear plume
$25 for msq, $25 per job
trim frost
leveling it manually is so ass
jolly flume
to use an extreme example
destiny 2 literally deleted the first three years of its story from the game and survived for another five years
what killed the game was ultimately not the story
vale dagger
$25!? Too much lol
jolly flume
but the devs lack of care for the gameplay content
teal hill
destiny 2 literally deleted the first three years of its story from the game and...
And people fucking hated that?
jolly flume
and plenty of people continued to play
so I fail to see how people will quit the game
teal hill
But it factually lowered the game's content and quality
jolly flume
for the mere option of skipping
jolly flume
sigh
trim frost
apples to oranges and yet they’re both fruits
teal hill
The fundamental structure of the story and progression is different
sinful brook
you're not understanding the parallels
clear plume
yeah, ffxiv actually lets you replay the story later if you want, destiny doesnt
torn mesa
craggy marsh
doesn't WoW have a skip feature or am I being silly and thinking about a different game
sinful brook
they have a skip in wow
clear plume
people skipping, liking the game, and replaying on NG+ is the actual ffxiv experience
teal hill
The parallel is "They made this game suck ass on purpose and it didn't die, so if FFXIV sucks ass on purpose it also wouldn't immediately die."
Which like, okay, yeah?
Good point?
What am I supposed to say
jolly flume
the point is the game did not suck ass for any reason related to the story lol
please at least try to make a coherent argument
torn kindle
WoW lets you pick any old expansion to level through, ignore the rest if you want, and then you do the most current one
craggy marsh
oops wrong reply
teal hill
the point is the game did not suck ass for any reason related to the story lol
Who the fuck is talking about story
craggy marsh
they have a skip in wow
and WoW is still around just fine which means if XIV had one it would be fine too then
clear plume
WoW lets you pick any old expansion to level through, ignore the rest if you wan...
ehhhhhhhhh nowadays the tutorial actually just starts you in dragonflight bc its the current story arc
teal hill
Like do you still think I'm talking exclusviely about story?
clear plume
you go out of your way to do different
sinful brook
no but you make it sound like the story is the only way to properly experience this game
jolly flume
if you want to talk about the rest of the game, raid races continually became more and more popular despite the first three years of the game being deleted
sinful brook
and telling people they have an easily accessible skip option is somehow bad
hearty shore
why do we even talking about making skips easier ? SE didn't announce any plans regarding it anyways 😄
torn mesa
are we acting like a skip is not primarily skipping the story?
sinful brook
because its a hypothetical that ealter is proposing
will somehow make the game worse
torn mesa
like yeah man, there's so many engaging battle content to sharpen my skills as a new 14 player in the MSQ
teal hill
Skips are not just skipping story but skipping experience, content, and context.
Which are MORE important.
jolly flume
there was exactly no negative impact from vaulting the old content besides not having that content to do anymore, which demonstrates that there is a pretty obvious lack of knock on effects from skipping a story that's core to the game for people who don't care about it
sinful brook
why would i need context of why im killing god 7 when im just here to kill god 7
teal hill
there was exactly no negative impact from vaulting the old content besides not h...
"there was exactly no negative impact from vaulting the old content besides not having that content to do anymore"
There was no negative impact from vaulting the old content, other than the negative impact
jolly flume
are you even reading
teal hill
Are you?
craggy marsh
Skips are not just skipping story but skipping experience, content, and context.
what content is there that them skipping could be seen as "harmful"
dungeons?
jolly flume
if you can't be asked to even read an argument in good faith
i'm not going to bother
have fun talking to the wall
torn mesa
pallid kindle
nobody is gonna change their opinion why r u still on about ts
teal hill
what content is there that them skipping could be seen as "harmful"
Everything between the start of the game and the current expansion?
I'm not sure what question is that.
torn mesa
Everything between the start of the game and the current expansion?
the MSQ, dungeons, and normal trials?
hearty shore
yeah some people just want to kill bosses with friends
worn bluff
your view is that the first 100 hours of the game are worth playing, which is a fine opinion to have. but it's not an objective truth nor is it going to worth it for everyone
wicked delta
craggy marsh
Everything between the start of the game and the current expansion?
How can you be so sure that someone playing the game from ARR-DT would do every raid and trial?
when most of them are optional content?
hearty shore
they can read the skills and watch a guide on the bosses mehanics they don't care if the boss is god or whatever
teal hill
How can you be so sure that someone playing the game from ARR-DT would do every ...
They sure as hell would be more likely to do them when they unlock them gradually
dapper zealot
is cooly back?
clear plume
This is the downside of only enjoying the story of the game, as soon as you finish it you have to make a discord account join the ffxiv Reddit discord and talk about how the story is the only ffxiv content worth playing in the channel made for people playing content post msq 
pallid kindle
They sure as hell would be more likely to do them when they unlock them graduall...
no
wicked delta
I only did Alexander after I finished Endwalker’s story lol
sinful brook
They sure as hell would be more likely to do them when they unlock them graduall...
thats not true at all lol
we went over this 30m ago
teal hill
This is the downside of only enjoying the story of the game, as soon as you fini...
Brother I have like 4k hours in the game, I think I can speak
worn bluff
ngl 95% of the dialogue in this game is skippable anyways IMO. most people are bound to forget it and need a reminder anyways
sinful brook
whats your point
jolly flume
everyone in this channel has more playtime than you
craggy marsh
They sure as hell would be more likely to do them when they unlock them graduall...
I doubt it because when 5.3 came out you had a fuck ton of people complaining they hadn't done Crystal Tower and you needed to have done those raids to do the 5.3 msq
teal hill
whats your point
The point is that I'm not an MSQ-only andy
jolly flume
please don't bother using that as a point of argument
vale dagger
So basically some think that skipping is bad while others think skipping is good. Really depends on the player. Players who prefer story won't skip and hardcore raiders who don't care for story will skip. Don't see the issue lol
clear plume
Brother if you think 4K hours is a lot you do not want to pick that argument with me I have achievements that take 4K hours to get lmao
craggy marsh
Crystal Tower is ARR content so you had people in SHB who still hadn't done it
boreal pumice
everyone in this channel has more playtime than you
my limsa afk time is bigger then yours
sinful brook
i have some inane achievements too
wicked delta
Sob why u exposing bro
pallid kindle
torn mesa
teal hill
Yep
sinful brook
i did 10k fates using the same 2 fates repeatedly thousands of times
boreal pumice
Sob why u exposing bro
nah nah let him cook
sinful brook
that took me a couple thousand hours
teal hill
I have 4k hours when there was less content in the game than there currently is, so?
We really turning to this now?
boreal pumice
gz you can afk for hours
hearty shore
and you new here ??? so did you join the FF14 discord cause you plan on returning to the game ?
teal hill
like does me doing msq somehow change the context on that experience?
Factuallly, yes.
sinful brook
no it doesn't
pallid kindle
you havent played the game in 3 years why are you arguing this
dapper zealot
We really turning to this now?
you flaunted your 'credentials' so yes
teal hill
no it doesn't
Why ask a question you don't want an answer to?
teal hill
you flaunted your 'credentials' so yes
Chinese finger trap ass arguement
pallid kindle
Why ask a question you don't want an answer to?
you've refused the answer this entire time
sinful brook
ever heard of rhetorical questions
quick verge
hi chat ^.^
hearty shore
o/
quick verge
!mute 1386357930961535169 12h
storm frostBOT
clear plume
Hi biscuit we haven’t said a single slur yet r u proud of me
jolly flume
worn bluff
biscuit NO now we have nothing to talk about
boreal pumice
quick verge
come help me brick +16s
worn bluff
craggy marsh
Biscuit ruined the moment
clear plume
Sure what’s ur bnet
wicked delta
My content gone
torn mesa
ikr
quick verge
Biscuit#12631
worn bluff
great now we have nothing to do in this game for a month
craggy marsh
We were bonding
wicked delta
quick verge
watch cavs raptors
sinful brook
cavs raptors is anticontent
craggy marsh
Now we'll never know what bro was going to say
wicked delta
Ive BEEN tapped in
vale dagger
boreal pumice
think what they wanted to say but failed was doing the dungeons /trials teach you some mechs but if you skip all that you just dont dont know mechs but was really bad at saying that
quick verge
old dungeons and trials have been piss outscaled for eons now
even within expac of release its gotten so bad
like they had to go back and prevent you from shitstomping endsinger
craggy marsh
think what they wanted to say but failed was doing the dungeons /trials teach yo...
I'd argue that most of them actually don't teach you much of anything until like....mid SB or even SHB
quick verge
and havent done that for like anything else
wicked delta
I mean I guess but everything in this game can be resolved from a studying angle
clear plume
well no, bc that was mentioned as if ur a mmo vet you arent getting anything from titan normal and they said that wasnt what their argument was
vale dagger
Honestly Endwalker content is probably easier than past content
clear plume
it was the investment into the time taken makes you care more
jolly flume
the msq won't teach anyone who isn't willing or capable of learning, and if you are willing and/or capable of learning you will learn regardless of whether or not you do the msq
hearty shore
think what they wanted to say but failed was doing the dungeons /trials teach yo...
yeah also probably bad argument since the mechs are ussually unique to the boss and the ones that repeat you can learn in under 5 min or you watch a guide on the boss mehanics
vale dagger
Least Endwalker dungeons
sinful brook
msq doesn't really give you context or experience on catching fish either
and me doing 10k fates wasn't motivated by the msq in any way
wicked delta
Imagine watching guides on normal content
jolly flume
how will I enjoy mahjong without killing zodiark
sinful brook
nor did i use a job that existed when i did msq
hearty shore
and "don;t stand in bad" isn't even a mechanic anyone will go over
shadow pilot
Imagine watching guides on normal content
Ermmmm
boreal pumice
yeah also probably bad argument since the mechs are ussually unique to the boss ...
hey dont argue with me i was trying to get their point but soudned like they didnt know how to say it and went with a rant
wicked delta
Go in blind and get your ass beat like the rest of us
pallid kindle
Imagine watching guides on normal content
shadow pilot
🚶♂️
craggy marsh
Imagine watching guides on normal content
lowkey me when I first started playing
worn bluff
I'd argue that most of them actually don't teach you much of anything until like...
i'd argue that there are tons of people who have played through all of the content and still can't do any of it
sleek moon
flip side, doing in from the cold teaches someone to not be a lil bitch
well, before the nerf
craggy marsh
My ass was watching MTQ guides for Stormblood dungeons back in 2019
wicked delta
Lord save me
quick verge
#mtqnation
torn mesa
how will I enjoy mahjong without killing zodiark
look at it this way, if you didn't do the MSQ, you may not have found Helmarut, and in turn, may not have ventured down the modding rabbit hole right
shadow pilot
wicked delta
My ass was watching MTQ guides for Stormblood dungeons back in 2019
Fun fact I actually did this once for Midgardsomr but I watched the savage guide and then fucked up mechs even more than usual bc it didn’t match what I learned
😭😭😭
craggy marsh
i'd argue that there are tons of people who have played through all of the conte...
Hell Enuo shows that people can do every ultimate and savage raid but still fumble moving CW or CWW in a circle
sinful brook
nah you were going down that pipeline no matter what chiyo
vale dagger
Evolve mode is going to be so much fun. Nomore button bloat!
clear plume
o10s is the worst content in this entire game
jolly flume
nah you were going down that pipeline no matter what chiyo
my tits making up 60% of my total body mass was an inevitability
boreal pumice
i had to look for a guide on ast mainly because i thought undraw had a hidden mech no turns out it was just a useless button
worn bluff
Hell Enuo shows that people can do every ultimate and savage raid but still fumb...
that's a different phenomenon though. that's where raiders spend so much time in 4-5 fights that they forget how to do anything else
clear plume
thats the new argument people can have
craggy marsh
my tits making up 60% of my total body mass was an inevitability
irl? proof????
wicked delta
my tits making up 60% of my total body mass was an inevitability
Proof?
jolly flume
this channel is cooked
vale dagger
wicked delta
What were you expecting
craggy marsh
we're chorted
quick verge
o10s is the worst content in this entire game
o10s is only the worst content if you're a tank
if you're not a tank you're larping
craggy marsh
let's larp
clear plume
ok biscuit im on wow hop in
quick verge
bet
wicked delta
Idk I didnt do o10s but it looked boring as shit when I watched a pov of it
craggy marsh
what was o10? was that Middy?
quick verge
yes
vale dagger
Yes
wicked delta
Yea
craggy marsh
bro the normal mode is boring as shit so I assume the savage is even more so
quick verge
banger music too
https://open.spotify.com/track/2Ehgk30DvBMuNWIftMRRBT this shit is so f... zzzzzz
wicked delta
Normal is literally free melatonin to the brain
craggy marsh
SE found the cure to insomnia
clear plume
we r so ready
wicked delta
I think O12N is actually pretty good even tho ilvl creep is fucking it up bad these days
vale dagger
banger music too
I'll raise you this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qERYhmnvcyY&pp=ygUbTGV2aWF0aGFuIHNhdmFnZSBzb25nIGZmeGl2
