endgame-lounge

[dull drum]

https://tenor.com/view/higuruma-higuruma-hiromi-hiromi-jjk-lawyer-jujutsu-kaisen-lawyer-gif-3266726213093115590

[rapid whale]

surely this means

[jolly flume]

this can't be real

[mossy eagle]

Doesn't matter who you are at SE, you hate healers

[eager jackal]

EVEN EASIER TO USE THAN BEFORE???

WHAT

[trim frost]

white mage

even easier

to use

[jolly flume]

"even easier to use than before"

[rapid whale]

8.0 fight design is going to have way more damage and way more movement than ever right

[trim frost]

than before

[nocturne escarp]

Worse, a LoL player

[jade nimbus]

tbf gotta apprecciate the honesty

[jolly flume]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[trim frost]

right right

[limpid edge]

whm was just too hard

[wicked delta]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1231286447131328544/1469597835963138160/FUCK.gif

[jade nimbus]

to dumbing down an already easy job

[eager jackal]

bros

[jolly flume]

THIS SHIT IS DESIGNED FOR CAVE DWELLING CHIMPS BRO

[mossy eagle]

Surely this is just WHM

[jolly flume]

LMFAOOOOO

[eager jackal]

it might be fore

[trim frost]

dude

[kind elm]

??????

[mossy eagle]

Surely the other healers will be good

[eager jackal]

huh

[thin fox]

WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE FIND THIS JOB EASY

SO DONT WORRY

[mossy eagle]

Surely

[trim frost]

ults are

[thin fox]

WE'RE MAKING IT EVEN MORE SHIT

[trim frost]

gonna be baby mode

[eager jackal]

WHM GETS EXPEDIANT

[trim frost]

it's not even funny

[eager jackal]

LUL

[rapid whale]

expedience lol

[jade nimbus]

wait, what

[brisk charm]

bro

[kind elm]

expedience

[jade nimbus]

expedience on whm, I can't

[brisk charm]

okay kill my scholar

i guess

[mossy eagle]

Honestly just take out the supports

[jolly flume]

[jade nimbus]

that's so funny

[mossy eagle]

Make everyone a DPS at this point

[kind elm]

jesus christ

[thin fox]

😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

[eager jackal]

so healers just use their (now instant) attack gcds more

and uh

[thin fox]

fucking KILL these people

[eager jackal]

nothing else changed

[trim frost]

no because like

[kind elm]

thank god im becoming an msq andy

[eager jackal]

its still just 111111111

[jolly flume]

it's so over

[trim frost]

what's the fucking point of even bothering with reborn mode then

[jolly flume]

hitler found alive

[trim frost]

the fuck

[timber stratus]

All im saying is world of warcraft is right there for anyone who enjoys healing

[ocean valley]

yipeeee

[kind elm]

chata

chata we got fucked.

[pallid kindle]

delete it pls

[mossy eagle]

What do they put in the water at SE HQ

[nocturne escarp]

This is making me worried for new jobs since this mode will be the new standard for them.

[stray forge]

Don’t worry

[mossy eagle]

That makes them allergic to good healer design

[odd beacon]

Reborn and Evolved feeling like apple and oranges now

[stray forge]

Everyone complains about wow class changes too

[whole estuary]

SCH is getting Benediction then?

[odd beacon]

Its so different

[thin fox]

ok so playing reborn for whm is straight up griefing

lol

[trim frost]

ohhhh no

oh no

[jolly flume]

'

[thin fox]

youre next bard

[dapper zealot]

sure brd will be ok if drg was good

[limpid edge]

what if bard gets to cast

[eager jackal]

wait bard

[dull drum]

@jolly flume hold my hand

im scared

[jolly flume]

I didn't think

they could fuck it up that bad

[trim frost]

three backsteps

[jolly flume]

but they really just did

[dapper zealot]

all the songs gone

[timber stratus]

ok back to a job where i actually know what the spells do

[terse zodiac]

? what on earth makes you think this lol the whole point of evolved is making the jobs different to eachother

[eager jackal]

raid buffs found alive

[jolly flume]

the songs are there

[uncut pebble]

WHAT IS THIS BRO

[wicked delta]

Im actually dooming right now

[whole estuary]

wait was giving WHM Expedience a joke

[jolly flume]

nah man

[wicked delta]

😭

[stray forge]

Why console

[jade nimbus]

it's fine, they put all their budget on dps I think

[torn kindle]

Why does he have duty actions

[thin fox]

they really needed to show

2 from each role

[uncut pebble]

i fucking cant

[odd beacon]

dooming is the exact reason why reborn is even a thing 😭

[pallid kindle]

placeholder buttons

[jolly flume]

in the leadup to dawntrail I was kinda sad about some of the changes

but this

is just fucking insane

it's over

[dull drum]

no it has it

just for itself

but yeah

[whole estuary]

oh ok

[odd beacon]

Because people are absolutely friction to big changes like this

[dapper zealot]

wtf

[whole estuary]

oooooh

[thin fox]

WHY DOES WHM NEED EXPEDIENCE

IT CAN JUST RUN

[dapper zealot]

songs need gauge now?

[thin fox]

😭

[jolly flume]

why does white mage need to be a phys range

like I know they're all dogshit at the game

but come on oman

[mossy eagle]

Surely it's just WHM

[jolly flume]

surely right

[eager jackal]

wait songs aren't damage buffs

[jolly flume]

[mossy eagle]

Surely it's not everyone losing cast times

[trim frost]

my problem is like

[odd beacon]

You're looking at this WHM from the lens of current WHM

[pallid kindle]

the worse part is they still have to make content around reborn mode instead of just deleting it from the game

[odd beacon]

Its apple and oranges

[stray forge]

Did they announce reaper changes yet idk where to watch this stuff

[odd beacon]

Nah

Just 4 jobs

[pine holly]

Very early shit too

[jolly flume]

what is apples and oranges about a caster class having no castbars

[visual geyser]

Only 4 jobs

[trim frost]

if you make such a simplified form of it but still give the "original option" that's objectively much more involved then what reason is there to even bother with the original option

[jolly flume]

I'm lost

[trim frost]

ESPECIALLY if they said that evolved is gonna be slightly higher dps

[jade nimbus]

this is just a breakdown of 4 jobs to give people an idea of what evolved encompasses

[thin fox]

black mage will now no longer have casttimes! please look forward to it

[verbal whale]

BARD IS GOING TO COOK FINALLY

[eager jackal]

did I just see DoT procs?

[odd beacon]

The notion that casters actually need cast time are also from the lens of current jobs?? WHM cast time is behind its healing GCDs

[eager jackal]

for ogcd

[jolly flume]

which one do you think healers will cast more of

I will remind you that they're still designing content around reborn jobs

[proven pivot]

Chiyo the cheese?

[eager jackal]

BARD CAST TIMES

[odd beacon]

Again you're looking at this with the lens of current XIV

[eager jackal]

WE ARE BACK

[jolly flume]

meaning that all movement will be doable with a castbar

[jade nimbus]

nvm

[eager jackal]

WE ARE SO BACK

[uncut pebble]

cast

..

.........

.

[jade nimbus]

they gave the castbar to brd

[uncut pebble]

.

[jolly flume]

what does that make being a phys range

[uncut pebble]

.

.

[trim frost]

WOOO

[thin fox]

NO CASTING ON HEALERS

[odd beacon]

Theres so much fucking changes there's no way encounters don't change

[visual geyser]

Stop bro

[thin fox]

CASTING ON PRANGE

[trim frost]

CASTING ON PRANGE

[jolly flume]

they literally said

[thin fox]

PRANGE IS MORE OF A CASTER THAN WHM

[round hazel]

!slowmode 30

[storm frost]

Success!

Slowmode Updated to 30, Kupo!

[brisk charm]

casting on prange

[jolly flume]

they are making all content doable on reborn jobs

[stray forge]

Did they give bard Aimed Shot

[visual geyser]

!?

[pallid kindle]

they still gotta make content around reborn mode instead of deleting it from the game
they reallyt just gotta delete that

[dull drum]

i will admit the movement button is cool now lowkey

[jade nimbus]

alright, they gave bard a reaction dodge

[dapper zealot]

omg holy shit

[finite plank]

...didn't we remove damaging movement for a reason
why are you moving back to it again

[kind elm]

yeah so they said "dps jobs get to be fun and tank/healer dont get shit"

[odd beacon]

Yea thats why Reborn exists because of all the people dooming about how different Evolved is when its an entirely different thing

[jolly flume]

I think they just made like 90% of the playerbase dps players

[verbal whale]

Literally nobody wants to play orange as it is try finding one now

[rapid whale]

sorry support players

[thin fox]

theres no raid buffs anymore so they dont need to worry about it

[stray forge]

Sorry ekittens

[nocturne escarp]

I mean, they picked the two most bland tank/healer to show off. Maybe the others will be better

[limpid edge]

they still got 3/4 more tanks/healers to redesign copium

[torn kindle]

No movement if you stand still, which is good

[verbal whale]

Prange lol

[mossy eagle]

Again, just dumpster supports at this point and have 8 DPS players in raids

[pallid kindle]

songs are still party buffs

[finite plank]

i see

[random needle]

I can only pray it's because PLD and WHM are the white bread of supports and the other tanks/healers-- yeah what Tranquility said

[wicked delta]

It’s so over its truly over im becoming a reaper main now

[rapid whale]

dps players stay winning

[jolly flume]

red mage job stone looking real nice rn

[uncut pebble]

[thin fox]

bard seems cool i think

[jade nimbus]

I was wondering, how would it even work if I had to do a mechanic on a small platform

[pallid kindle]

stand still

[jolly flume]

all the dps look awesome

[stray forge]

You literally replied to the comment that answers ur question

[kind elm]

"this is his favourite" yeah we can tell bro

[thin fox]

my view:

• PLD is ok (doesn't feel super different; some things seem cool)
• DRG is awesome
• WHM is bottom tier awful
• BRD is cool

[vestal hollow]

[jade nimbus]

oh, ye, sorry. I meant to say 'Oh, that makes sense, I was wondering how did it work in this scenario'

[pallid kindle]

whats the point in the DOTs they are LITERALLY 3 SECONDS LONG ???

[limpid edge]

we need to see what yoshi did to blm

[tight wing]

When should we be seeing the lvl 110 abilities?

[mossy eagle]

He needs a partner developer who plays supports

[zealous meteor]

i won't judge evolved until i can play it myself
so far it mostly looks good though. but WHM is really fuckin weird

[thin fox]

white mage just seems completely awful and like, again, the devs are absurdly out of touch when it comes to healers

[marble grove]

You guys do know there's still 9 months till launch.... They can still change stuff lol
And considering how the playerbase is.... people will bitch and moan about White Mage and they'll likely see it lol

[remote gate]

imma be real these changes fucking suck holy shit why the fuck does evolved literally remove a mit from a tank

THEY TOOK MY GOAT LOW BLOW TOO 😭😭

[trim frost]

i can't get myself excited because i'm just thinking about what the point of reborn mode still existing is

[pallid kindle]

low blow = interject

[whole estuary]

It seems like low blow is inside interject, maybe if nothing is being casted

[vestal hollow]

i just think its crazy to doom over something very very early in development this aggressively

[timber stratus]

the gamer dads who hate any form of change

[remote gate]

does interject stun?

[terse zodiac]

on evolved it does

[eager jackal]

the healers/tanks look bland
dps look amazing right now

[jolly flume]

being early in development doesn't mean it doesn't indicate the direction they want to take

[nocturne escarp]

So people don't get upset about their class changing

[pallid kindle]

PLEASE rethink this and delete it entirely before launch and make people adjust i beg of you
@remote gate interject is now also low blow

[torn kindle]

Yes

[dull drum]

yeah dps will transition to evolved fine

[vestal hollow]

youre seeing the reason why in this channel. people dooming like crazy

[jade nimbus]

oh, ye, so far dps looks cool, and evolve seems overall interesting. We'll truly see it at the job action trailer/media tour showcase

[rapid whale]

all the evolved dps seem litty

[zealous meteor]

because without it 90% of players will unsub without even giving 8.0 a chance

[jolly flume]

we're not dooming evolved mode, we're dooming evolved mode supports

[verbal whale]

Like there aren’t enough vipers already ffs

[kind elm]

hey could you try forming a thought

[remote gate]

even if interject can stun they still removed my goat low blow... 🥀

[pallid kindle]

?

[trim frost]

again it's less of it being a rotational issue but the fact that it's A) EASIER and B) HIGHER DPS

[ocean valley]

this looks pretty damn cool

[marble grove]

Personally, this looks good, BUT, i'll form proper opinions closer to launch lol

[thin fox]

i mean even though i think whm is bad in evolved, you are literally griefing if you used reborn. "either play the job with cast times or the job without" anyone taking reborn white mage into raid is straight up completely griefing.

[round hazel]

Reborn mode is existing is literally to ease people into evolved mode.

the new jobs have no reborn mode because there is no need to ease if you start in their new concept

higher damage and ease of use are incentives and side effects.

[limpid edge]

evercold sounds like an illness

[eager jackal]

RAID BUFFS FOUND DEAD IN THE DITCH

[remote gate]

ngl removing a mit from a tanks kit for evolved is really gonna make things weird especially if one player is running evolved and the other is running reborn

[dapper zealot]

synergy actions?

[rapid whale]

what is synergy actions?

[round hazel]

I can see them just nuking reborn mode once the majority of players swap to it

[trim frost]

r u fucking serious bruh

[nocturne escarp]

They really need more tank players on the dev team. Some of the PLD stuff is cool, but it's small and doesn't offset the continuous dumbing down of the job overall. Perhaps the other tanks will fair better. It's still nearly a year away though, so that's hopefully enough time for them to change some of it

[dull drum]

they'll nuke it yeah

[thin fox]

TANKS WINNING. DPS WINNING. HEALERS LOSING.

[visual geyser]

Party buffs are gone

[jade nimbus]

damn, they killed raid buffs

[pine holly]

That was to be expected

[robust shoal]

DRK MT mentor LF DRK OT mentor

[rapid whale]

2min meta dead

[stray forge]

It’s bc they saw my healers were all level 0

[trim frost]

https://klipy.com/gifs/shiseidored-pou

[thin fox]

oh wow theyre completely removing it from reborn as well. actually dead.

[mossy eagle]

Goodbye 2 min

[remote gate]

raid buffs are gone oh my fuckimg god

[jade nimbus]

wait, what the fuck does dancer do now then

[uncut pebble]

😭

[round hazel]

2 minute is DEAD

[tight wing]

Goon

[ocean valley]

2 min gone les fuckin GO

[visual geyser]

Heal kek

[remote gate]

ninja gonna be fucked lmfao

[pallid kindle]

this guy designed dancer btw

[round hazel]

rip 2 min

[pine holly]

My guess is they just make Dancer be an omega buffer to go all in on that

[odd beacon]

I mean drg changed so much dnc probably is gonna be too

[visual geyser]

Boss designs gonna get fucking weird again

[jolly flume]

this isn't even true

[pallid kindle]

people gonna be complaining 2m is gone now

[thin fox]

"we are FORCED to design around it" not true

[stray forge]

He’s green

[shy obsidian]

Sugar Riot minion when

[terse zodiac]

they're certainly gonna complain that there's no party buffs, not necessarily about 2m being gone

[rapid whale]

i called it a year ago

[jolly flume]

there are plenty of 2s during mechanics, I really don't know where this is coming from, in fact when they started putting most 2s during mechanic downtime we complained and asked for more things to do during burst

[mossy eagle]

There's plenty of examples of the boss doing shit around 2 min, but I'm glad this frees jobs up to have unique cadences.

[jade nimbus]

I mean, I'm fine with this, it means everyone can do whatever the fuck they want and also pots whatever they want, but also just means you need to coordinate mit and that's it. So the evolved rotation can go wild

[vestal hollow]

they absolutely were? every fight has mechanics that happen at 2mins

[odd beacon]

I mean

[thin fox]

the game is already kinda inconsistent here cuz in anabaseios you had nothing happening during p11s 2m but athena had 2m during superchain theory so

[torn mesa]

8.0 will save the game

[jolly flume]

fru p1 is literally a clear as day example of them not giving a fuck about burst timings lol

[visual geyser]

facts

[thin fox]

they are not FORCED to design it t his way though. they said "we are FORCED to design it around the 2m" which is not true, and the game is already inconsistent on whether 2m intersects with a mechanic. and either way, the 2m existing does not force the mechanics to have downtime.

[visual geyser]

Facts

[trim frost]

so like wouldn't getting rid of the 2m kinda defeat the entire point of keeping reborn mode

[mossy eagle]

I'm so happy to have been proven wrong about the job redesign being all talk

[odd beacon]

2min boss downtime is likely a design device on dps tuning

[dull drum]

agreed yeah

[pine holly]

Anytime they don't have downtime they piss off some people, particularly if a job gets punished for disengaging more compared to others. I fail to see why removing it is overall a bad change.

[rapid whale]

this implies they want the flow of battle to speed up as well

[mossy eagle]

Reborn mode is for WHM that want cast times

[terse zodiac]

keeping reborn mode is just for people who want it to be the familiar rotations they know

[thin fox]

pls 8.0 bring the death of the 11m long third fight

[trim frost]

except it's not gonna be the familiar rotations with the 2m design out of the question now

[visual geyser]

It’s funny the devs are literally saying they design bosses around the 2 minute window and people are telling them they don’t

[jolly flume]

11 minutes long is fine just make it an actually interesting 11 minutes

[dapper zealot]

considering how much faster paced DT combat is, definitely yeah

[round hazel]

I mean evolved mode is their entire future job adjustment plan, reborn mode is just gonna feel jank because it's not gonna align with their new vision lol

[terse zodiac]

all it would change is remove the one 2 minute party buff on some jobs

[limpid edge]

i wonder how many people are gonna complain their job has to execute the hard part during a superchain for ex

[torn mesa]

I'm mostly jesting. It's too early to say right now. I need to see what they actually do before I have more of an opinion

[jade nimbus]

well, 2 min are gone from reborn mode too

[stray forge]

What happened to the people who were gonna play fan fest drinking games are they dead already

[thin fox]

reborn to me seems like them just trying to keep it as a failsafe and then in 9.0/10.0 its either gonna stop getting updates or just be removed entirely

[round hazel]

oh LOL

f

[dull drum]

yeah its basically a forceful push to evolved whether you like it or not, we'll see how it is for other jobs but for WHM you basically HAVE to play evolved, it seems like the dps will be ok ish but

[eager jackal]

where were you when 2m meta was kill

[terse zodiac]

they didn't say 2 minute cooldowns or rotations will change, just the party buffs will be removed

[jolly flume]

frankly I've seen enough of what they're doing to DPS to say that I'm excited to play them
supports though lol

[round hazel]

watched the assassination live

[jade nimbus]

the rotations will still be 2 min too, and dancer still exists, so no idea about that

[visual geyser]

Pog

[trim frost]

my thing is like it's gonna be even less obvious who's just shitting the bed during a raid because they cba to even do a simplified rotation well

[mossy eagle]

Oh for sure but for the record I was totally guessing that SE was just going to do jackshit about job design in 8.0 and that's already proven wrong, even if the result doesn't totally land

[round hazel]

I'm hoping it's just that they picked the most milquetoast jobs to show

[eager jackal]

at least they're doing SOMETHING, not just half-assed tweaks

[dapper zealot]

I'm surprised they didn't showcase blm

[verbal whale]

I don’t like being in a sus of with odd min kill times sends your parse to hell

[limpid edge]

yoship needs time to make it PERFECT

[jolly flume]

the game isn't designed around parsing and never has been

your killtime is also not why you grey

[thin fox]

this is why i said i wish they showed 2 of each role, cuz its rly hard to judge e.g. white mage without seeing how much of its design carries over to the other healers

[mossy eagle]

Oh no won't someone think of the parsers!!!!!!

[visual geyser]

Real

[dapper zealot]

OMG

[nocturne escarp]

I really hope this means PLD will get better changes than what they just showed off. Pre-6.3 PLD was taken out back and shot to fit into the 2m better. Now that that's gone, I really don't want it to stay this boring

[round hazel]

level 50 saved

[trim frost]

ok well this is a good thing i think

[limpid edge]

oh that is nice for duty finder

[kind elm]

this is a very good thing

[jade nimbus]

oh that's neat

[jolly flume]

this is a bright spot

[pine holly]

Oh that's a very good thing

[odd beacon]

Doesnt this kinda make levels a drought

[trim frost]

unless new combos get unlocked
yup.

[pine holly]

I won't shed too much of a tear for something I do once and then never again.

[dapper zealot]

This is really good, like great

[remote gate]

NO FUCKIUNG WAY ALL ABILIITES AT LV 50

[stray forge]

When u evolve u consume a feral soul

[jade nimbus]

ye, but the pro is that you have your full rotation for all content.

[eager jackal]

didn't WoW have an issue where you could do this but your dps was absolutely fucked compared to a "synced" job?

[thin fox]

its kinda similar to how monk is now

[pallid kindle]

"full of all necessary actions by level 50"

[odd beacon]

I mean its cool that <Lv50 gets all of the base actions, but a lot of the excitement from levelling is unlocking a shiny new toy. Well I'll have to eat my word, this is a new XIV afterall.

[remote gate]

this is gonna absolutely fuck ucob/uwu and possibly tea especially at dolls

[terse zodiac]

really depends on how much they change after 50

[zealous meteor]

with how most roulettes are locked to lv50 (unless you get REALLY lucky in high level dungeons/alliance raids/trials) i think this is a good change

[thin fox]

this could be huge depending on how major it is

[dapper zealot]

I'm really curious how this is going to turn out

[kind elm]

new tank will be a main tank

[nocturne escarp]

Please let this be good

[dull drum]

a forced split

[pine holly]

Ohhhhh

[trim frost]

i mean. i guess

[limpid edge]

waaait im not sure bout this

[visual geyser]

0 main tanks

[kind elm]

mannnn finding pfs is gonna suck now

[craggy marsh]

Shiggy, I AM THE MAIN TANK NOW

[odd beacon]

I guess its good on the long run lol

[terse zodiac]

warrior offtank is wild

[brisk scarab]

Okay, what are synergy mives

[jolly flume]

ok this part I don't think I'm a fan of

[mossy eagle]

Lmao WAR off tank

[dapper zealot]

wait, so wtf happens if one tank is using reborn and the other is evolved???

[wicked delta]

Warrior OT is some

[pallid kindle]

you're not a fan of any of this

[thin fox]

hmm i don't think i like forcing tanks into a specific role

[limpid edge]

i prefer tanks can pick either one. Warrior only OT sounds weird

[flint ledge]

war is probably gonna get giga changed atp

[remote gate]

WARRIOR IS OFF TANK LOOOOOOL

[jolly flume]

can you at least fucking read what I say before putting words in my mouth, you're so annoying lol

[fierce matrix]

Alright, lets calm down here lol

[pallid kindle]

you can use these

[round hazel]

calm down chiyo

[kind elm]

youre literally just baiting

[zealous meteor]

i assume they're thinking about 4 man content and won't just lock out WAR/DRK/GNB from those
so i'm not convinced that this is gonna be a hard split

[jade nimbus]

you die, they're clearly designing high end around evolved tbh from the way they speak about it (also reborn is still gonna get changed)

[craggy marsh]

LOOK AT ME

[round hazel]

don't make me do the funny

[odd beacon]

I mean are they wrong?

[jolly flume]

bros literally just here to start shit, I don't know what you want from me

[trim frost]

nah tbown just being rude for no reason

[dapper zealot]

tbown is always baiting shit

[visual geyser]

Oh

[thin fox]

i like the concept of the mt/ot stuff but i'm not sure if i like the idea of forcing tanks into one role. just making it harder to fill parties for no reason really.

[nocturne escarp]

I'm unsure, but I'm not against it. Tanks just kinda play the same already. The split could allow for each role to be more specific and interesting

[jolly flume]

they are wrong yes because I've spent the last thirty minutes saying I love how the new dps look
so shut the fuck up about how I only know how to doom ty

[kind elm]

theyve literally jsut been replying to ppl saying "i dont like this" and mocking them

[flint ledge]

gonna pmo if i cant use drk in dungeons

[terse zodiac]

thats just never gonna happen lol

[dull drum]

tbown is a ragebaiter yeah

[odd beacon]

idt dungeon is changing lol its just consolidation for raids

[zealous meteor]

i'm thinking more about quantum/criterion tbh

[trim frost]

if nothing else evolved is probably more controller friendly

[thin fox]

tbc when i said fill parties i meant pf not df

[dapper zealot]

actually yeah how is this going to work in pre 8.0 dungeons

[marble grove]

Main and sub tank is just for high diff content that matters really

[round hazel]

make a modmail instead then...

[trim frost]

i was always pretty resistant to learning controller because of there being a fuckton of buttons that i wouldn't really know how to bind in a comfortable way (esp coming out of kbm)

[verbal whale]

Hear me out let’s just give healer rez cap job bars so there’s no death penalty

[odd beacon]

I guess its not a problem in JP lol, every PF has a Paladin

[round hazel]

either way can y'all chill, otherwise I'll have to smack

[thin fox]

they said the diff between ot/mt only matters for high end supposedly like savage+

[proven pivot]

Ppl being mad the game is gonna be on switch… cough (did savages and progged uwu on my steam deck)

[torn mesa]

and in other content you don't even need a tank or a healer?

[round hazel]

kinda weird having war OT lol

[marble grove]

So far I like what I see, but I'm not a healer so take my opinion with a grain of salt lol

[odd beacon]

People's impressions on Switch are from the first device. S2 is beefier than PS4

[pine holly]

Yeah that's kind of weird but granted it could change

[round hazel]

yep

[thin fox]

i can't wait for the 30m bald man rant in my youtube recommended about the mt/ot thing as a war main

[round hazel]

typecasting tanks is definitely a choice, I'll have to see how it goes ig

[craggy marsh]

These changes are banger

[limpid edge]

i was thinking tanks had both an MT and OT mode, not just one

[odd beacon]

The saddest thing about this it might be losing its big self healing

[terse zodiac]

still 420s hallowed ground is

[stray forge]

Can I play ffxiv on ryu*inx

[round hazel]

idk how pf will work with typecasting as well

[dapper zealot]

I wonder how the goat watashia is handling this

[random needle]

Maybe it'll get actual mit in exchange

[pine holly]

Or even just a dynamic role. Very curious how that works

[craggy marsh]

That man has never experienced joy once is his entire life bc he dooms over everything and his ego wont allow him to be called OT

[limpid edge]

xeno is sending an angry letter to rn

[random needle]

Probably the same as it deals with pure/barrier healers?

[thin fox]

🛡️ BEHIND MY SHIELD MLADY 🛡️ I AM THE CANONICAL MAIN TANK 🛡️

[dapper zealot]

I feel drk should be able to be both mt and ot

[whole estuary]

just let the healer adjust

[round hazel]

prob yeah now that it's officially typecast

[thin fox]

warrior as an OT lock seems so strange. i wonder if that means its gonna be a radically different job in the evolved mode.

[mossy eagle]

When we gonna typecast M1 and M2?

[dapper zealot]

I'm so glad I held off learning sch until 8.0

[torn mesa]

Please understand. I can only do M1.

[brisk scarab]

I missed a bunch of stuff it seems, whats this about mt and ot stuff, are roles designated that role now?

[visual geyser]

They really showed 0 casters LMAO

[zealous meteor]

i don't think it supports switch 2 games
or online multiplayer on official servers?

[terse zodiac]

funny bc they showed paladin still has passage so seems like they get best of both worlds

[mossy eagle]

I know PLD has the shield but I feel like its identity is more about protecting allies

[rain geode]

Wait xenos? Like him or Hate him he seems to complement things plenty as well?

[thin fox]

basically its like how healer as shield/regen. tank will have mt/ot. pld + new tank is mt, rest ot. they say the diff wont matter outside of high end (they name savage), saying it will be "much more efficient" in that content if you abide by mt/ot

[stray forge]

Was kidding yeah you definitely can’t

[eager jackal]

is WAR getting the old ARR move that lowered the enemy main stat?

[kind elm]

overall vfery mixed on this
theres alot of things i like but the pld/whm showcase left a VERY bad taste in my mouth

[thin fox]

time to go check the whm channel in the balance

[dull drum]

just means tanks need to learn one MT and one OT mininum to join PFs more frequently now

[dapper zealot]

ok now that we've learnt that they're removing the 2 min meta and party buffs, I'm ok with evolved whm

[eager jackal]

I'm way too scared too look.

[mossy eagle]

Surely can't be any worse than the SMN channel

[craggy marsh]

Idk it looks like he flip flops his stance all the time

[thin fox]

i'm mostly curious on if this change will be reflected to the other healers. will all healers have this or just whm? (the instant cast)

[jolly flume]

more or less yeah

[dapper zealot]

all jobs have evolved kits

[brisk scarab]

Also, can someone define what they mean by synergy

[dull drum]

you cant outdoom the blue mages no matter what, their academy is COOKED

[eager jackal]

raid buffs

[mossy eagle]

PLD was less bad than WHM but yeah hopefully the rest of the supports fare better

[thin fox]

i specifically mean will the other healers also have no more cast times for dmg or is that just a whm quirk

[jolly flume]

it's like they went all out on dps and then decided support players have too few brain cells to do anything remotely fun or complex, if pld and whm are representative of what they're doing to the rest

[rain geode]

I dunno he's always seems fairly consistent. No one never changes their mind

[brisk scarab]

I have never heard raid buffs or danc partner stuff ever referred to as synergy LOL

[uncut pebble]

them showing no adps jobs either makes me feel really sus about what they'd do to stuff like mch blm sam

[dapper zealot]

Mr Prime did this all by himself

[mossy eagle]

we_just_dont_know.bird

[vestal hollow]

genuinely go chill a bit

[thin fox]

pld at least is like, ok. pld at worst feels like they didnt do enough, whereas whm was made actively worse.

[visual geyser]

He’s gonna get blamed for everything

[limpid edge]

just one guy designing it? Bad idea

[stray forge]

Bird

[wicked delta]

I liked DRG/BRD changes, the PLD changes was… whatever not bad but also not awful, WHM changes are making me I think im gonna make a post on the forums about how much I dislike these changes lol

[terse zodiac]

at least the dps sound a lot more fun than the pvp rotations

[jolly flume]

dps are fire

[mossy eagle]

Yeah again he needs a friend. 23 evolved jobs is way too many for one person

[whole estuary]

evolved SCH will have a new button that allows Eos to ride Carbuncle as a steed in battle

[kind elm]

im literally sitting leaning back in my chair with the triple chin eating crisps im chill as fuck
this is just my genuine opinion

[thin fox]

drg seems fucking awesome and once they started actually doing the brd rotation it looked really cool

[dull drum]

how is a helpful person spouting crap like this 😭 sybau bro just let us drop our opinions

[terse zodiac]

drg being able to take a tankbuster is peak

[brisk scarab]

OH, they revealed what evolved looks like? Im at work so I cant watch

[jolly flume]

you see if you dislike the game you must be irrational and need to go take some meds

[mossy eagle]

We saw 4 jobs

[vestal hollow]

jesus yall are crazy aggro

[loud nymph]

Yeah, with some gameplay demos too, pretty cool

[rapid whale]

tldr they killed 2min meta so every job is much more focused on its own "minigame" eg with drg they showed it having way more positionals and big reward for winning at it

[loud nymph]

Wow slow mode in endgame lounge 😯

[brisk scarab]

Oh, so I assume evolved is more personalized to the role?

[vestal hollow]

to job fantasy

[terse zodiac]

both modes party buffs are removed

[eager jackal]

I'm excited to see more, I'll say that. Looks like to me they finally said "fuck it" and made actual tangible changes to job identity, and reborn vs evolved is their way of testing the waters to see how reception is for it

[mossy eagle]

It's like the PvP jobs

[marble grove]

It's been.... Something

[whole estuary]

8.0 gives us new acronym, hpbtw

[odd stream]

Damn you know evercold is gonna be good when endgame lounge is popping

[vestal hollow]

i like how i didnt even say that either. nowhere did i say yall need xanax thats a whole other sentence

[eager jackal]

then further job changes will be decided by people's preference for one or the other

[thin fox]

@dull drum @jolly flume

[mossy eagle]

I feel like there's more people here accusing others of being too high strung vs. people being actually high strung.

[loud nymph]

Tbf I'm high as a kite after a shit week so this is just An Experience

[remote gate]

my friend group is discussing that pf raids are probably gonna require either evolved only or reborn teams with them probably only wanting to run evolved for the higher dps

[dull drum]

bro my gnb is in the chair my statics laughing at me

[round hazel]

there is no need for comments like this man

[jolly flume]

ok could you kindly please stop implying that any remotely negative take is irrational and needs to be rethought in a quiet room, is that simple enough

[brisk scarab]

I played barely any PvP, does this mean pick and choose actions for the occassion?

[pure spear]

Genuinely can you guys be civil

[dull drum]

ima need to take paladin classes on udemy

[pure spear]

Everyone

Stop arguing

It accomplishes nothing

[remote gate]

i just wanna know how these changes are gonna affect old ults stb ults especially

[craggy marsh]

What even happened here?

[pure spear]

There is no need for any of the snide remarks

[marble grove]

It's been a pretty positive FanFest, WHM and PLD changes just worrying peeps, with due reason ofc.

Do hope Fanfest boosted your day, even if a lil bit tho!

[craggy marsh]

Shiggy will you be the OT to my MT?

[jolly flume]

it's like this every time they announce something man, anyone says something along the lines of "this doesn't look good" and a bunch of people hop on their dick calling them doom posters and shortsighted

[errant bane]

When do WHM mains not complain

[pine holly]

Changes happened so gamer rage is on-going.

[loud nymph]

I had to resist screaming about Eva collab because I was at work at the time haha

[remote gate]

yeah ill be your drk to your pld. your holy shield will be powered by my dark greatsword

[round hazel]

!mute 285567261882843138 6h

[storm frost]

Success!

@jolly flume has been muted by @round hazel for 6 hours!

[round hazel]

!mute 324701710541127690 6h

[storm frost]

Success!

@dull drum has been muted by @round hazel for 6 hours!

Command Error!

An unhandled error has occurred: 503 Service Unavailable (error code: 0): upstream connect error or disconnect/reset before headers. reset reason: remote connection failure, transport failure reason: immediate connect error: No such file or directory

If you believe this error to be a bug please report to the Kupo Bot Support Discord: http://discord.gg/4dpPFcWURA

[wheat cloud]

To be clear, if people can't chill out then you're getting...

Yeah that

[trim frost]

okay

[kind elm]

insane

[wicked delta]

Lmao

[worldly grotto]

Big huge powerful burly DOM tanks and small twink-like sub tanks

[brisk scarab]

[craggy marsh]

[rain geode]

I have to admit without context this conversation has been very entertaining

[pallid kindle]

https://klipy.com/gifs/flightreacts-reaction-flight-reacts--k01KQ0P8WFG1KNSHM2XG6929C1F

[trim frost]

never voicing my opinion again i suppose

[buoyant zealot]

Aside from evolved/reborn mode this was perfect fan fest... what did YoshiP do to get a bigger team dude...never in my wildest dreams do we get bigger budget

[thin fox]

🛡️ Stop! 🛡️ This chat is for MAIN TANKS only! 🛡️ This chat does not accept DARK KNIGHT, WARRIOR, or GUNBREAKER 🛡️ As they are OFF TANKS 🛡️

[eager jackal]

o no

[marble grove]

Yeah the Eva Collab announcement had me even more hyped
It has the potential to surpass the Nier Raid

[round hazel]

!mute 389100126943313920 6h

[storm frost]

Command Error!

An unhandled error has occurred: 503 Service Unavailable (error code: 0): upstream connect error or disconnect/reset before headers. reset reason: remote connection failure, transport failure reason: immediate connect error: No such file or directory

If you believe this error to be a bug please report to the Kupo Bot Support Discord: http://discord.gg/4dpPFcWURA

[jade nimbus]

You get your full kit at 50 it seems, minus bonus effect, so you can technically play old ults. Balancing will be skewed too

[zealous meteor]

malera PLD and mviera/catgirl DRK

[eager jackal]

kupo died 😭

[thin fox]

rip kupochan...

[mossy eagle]

Kupo bot said "no lmao"

[craggy marsh]

Kupochan....

[worldly grotto]

A match made in heaven

[kind elm]

yep guess im heading off fuckin hell

[rain geode]

Wait they made main tank/off tank real roles and made only 1 of the 4 tanks main tank xd

[marble grove]

Rip Kupochi

[pallid kindle]

8.0 tank is MT

[loud nymph]

Soon to be 2 but yeah haha

[trim frost]

i dont really like tanks being forced into roles

[craggy marsh]

What even happened? Why are people being muted

[kind elm]

[whole estuary]

It does fit with how aggressive the other 3 tanks are in pvp in comparison

[wheat cloud]

Because people cant have a conversation without jumping down each other's throats

[eager jackal]

I'll be interested to see if they eventually make tank stance a mt/ot thing

[pure spear]

Rage baiting accomplishes nothing

[worldly grotto]

Hot?

[thin fox]

☝️ Dark knight main ☝️ sorry that you don't have the 🛡️ DEFENSE 🛡️ necessary to protect the party

[nocturne escarp]

It really doesn't seem like they're being "forced" into it.

[whole estuary]

and I think pvp is better expression of how they think a job is supposed to feel lorewise

[rain geode]

Dungeons sorts make me think you can't do that

[pure spear]

I don’t know why you guys can’t discuss anything without immediately trying to go after the other person

[marble grove]

I have a feeling the Evolved mode will be changed/improved by the time we are at Berlin FanFest

[wicked delta]

So why didn’t you guys mute the person who was actually ragebaiting earlier? There was a moderator in the chat who witnessed it go down so I don’t understand. Mute me for asking I guess but

[nocturne escarp]

They did say this was very early in development still

[mossy eagle]

Yeah MT/OT is only for high end, so tank stance will probably be a thing for all tanks. Plus OT still needs to get to #2 in aggro

[round hazel]

they've been muted

[eager jackal]

yeah but like if you want to tank you turn stance on, all your mits get slightly better/counters attached
if you OT, flip your stance off some mits turn into party mits

[marble grove]

I hope we see some icon changes like new art

[round hazel]

had to ask the team first

[pure spear]

Some mutes were given out in another channel cause Kupo tripped

[round hazel]

yeah kupo isn't working in here, had to slap them in another channel

[pure spear]

We are handling it

[brisk scarab]

I love the mod team

[rain geode]

Still feels weird to me to not make warrior main tank tho

[trim frost]

no shield. shit tank

[wicked delta]

Fair enough, cant say I agree with the concept of muting someone for not wanting to be told that they’re angry but im not a mod lol

[eager jackal]

be interesting to see where they go with it

[pure spear]

So let this be a reminder. Be civil in your discussion. This is supposed to be a fun time with all the new stuff coming.

[dapper zealot]

nah, it's weirder that drk isn't mt, like drk has the best mit

[marble grove]

Me axe is me shield lad!

[buoyant zealot]

Oh so they showed Evolved mode tanks? what's it like

[trim frost]

i'm having the least amount of fun i've had all day and that's not an exaggeration

[mossy eagle]

Definitely not biased as a PLD main but they should have made WAR + new MT, DRK+GNB OT, and then give PLD the equivalent of AST sects from 5.0 or whenever and let it do both

[rain geode]

I'm thinking more like vibe wise not necessarily gameplay wise

[marble grove]

Pretty much a toned down pld, looks pretty nice tho imho.

[robust shoal]

pld seems basically the same except shield swipe is back

[nocturne escarp]

They showed PLD. Some interesting stuff was added, but it doesn't feel like a huge change yet

[wheat cloud]

I think the changes are the most effort they've ever made to fixing long term problems and its likely to not be perfect, but it is finally taking a step in a new direction and the game sorely needed a shake up

[eager jackal]

my crackpot theory is eventually stance in evolved mode is just gonna turn into a sect equivalent

[rain geode]

Also doesn't really roles for tanks make pfing harder?

[ember quartz]

Yo i missed how dps and healer will work with evolved anyone got a summary?

[wheat cloud]

Granted reborn mode obviously still exists

[pure spear]

They are actively making major improvements. None of this feels half assed to me

Makes me hopeful for future stuff

[marble grove]

Name aside, 8.0 about to be PEAK

[eager jackal]

that's my thing, none of it feels half-assed. I don't like the healer change, but its not a half-assed change by any means

[mossy eagle]

Yes to be clear I'd much rather have them try and miss a little bit then not try at all

[trim frost]

what feels half assed is keeping reborn mode around when they clearly are trying to shift over to this new style full time

[wicked delta]

I do not feel hopeful for supports, dps evolved looks very fun though

[robust shoal]

It'll be the first time specific tank combos are just not desirable, though I wonder how much it will really change in savage

[nocturne escarp]

WHM got easier. DRG is cool. Bard seems interesting. Didn't get anything for the other classes yet

[wicked delta]

Im definitely gonna write feedback about it because these white mage changes I do Not Like It

[versed kayak]

Depends on how much you are actually forced into those roles

[rain geode]

Yeah the existence of reborn seems clunky and akward

[ember quartz]

Whm easier how?

[mossy eagle]

I worry a bit for the boss design team if they're trying to make bosses work for both sets of jobs.

[dapper zealot]

yeah it would just be better to fully move to evolved instead of keeping reborn considering it's just more dps

[brisk charm]

they should've just committed to evolved

[nocturne escarp]

Reborn is clearly only sticking around because they know some people will hate changing no matter what

[eager jackal]

reborn existing feels like they're just trying to gauge the community preference for the new changes

[wheat cloud]

Wrong expression. More like 1.5 assed because its doing too much rather than reeling back and only doing evolved mode.

[mossy eagle]

My guess/copium is that reborn is gone by 9.0

[wheat cloud]

But i guess they wanted to give people time to adjust

[marble grove]

The tank roles are for higher tier content, and to make life easier at that.
Doubt it'll have that much of an impact on PF

[limpid edge]

reborn is just a transition period before they finally remove it in 9.0

[buoyant zealot]

Keep reborn for 8.0, beyond who knows but it needs to be studied

[jade nimbus]

Btw did the pld dash still do damage to the mob?

[nocturne escarp]

No more cast times.

[rain geode]

I mean pf is mostly for higher tier content

[pure spear]

Also let’s be real

If everything switched over to evolved, do you want to be around people complaining how everything changed

[trim frost]

the “freedom” bit also feels like a load of horse shit because there’s still objectively gonna be one optimal rotation so how free is it really

[ember quartz]

Huh ,and what changes for DRG?

[pure spear]

At least there’s the option for the stubborn players

[marble grove]

Optimisation wise, yeah it's likely people will be more "adamant" to have both Tank roles in place, yes.

[eager jackal]

three positionals, pvp lb, and raidbuffs (all raidbuffs) are now dead

[versed kayak]

It would impact pf since you'd need to know at least one MT and one OT no?

[rain geode]

So yeah it's (likely) to make pfing worse

[trim frost]

in terms of balance it makes sense to do a 2/3 split with new tank in the smaller group because more people are gonna try the new tank

[marble grove]

Will be interesting to see if that leads to party finders setting up rules about it

[pure spear]

I think for release and first savage tier it’ll be lenient

People will get more strict over time

[ember quartz]

Huh thats nice opti,front ,flank and rear positionals?

[marble grove]

That would probably lead to tank peeps being forced to main one, which already kinda happens anyway

[visual geyser]

Idk since we have the 2nd difficulty in between the two they might not make the first tier so easy

[eager jackal]

left right and rear, your jumps are now a true north equivalent and you have 3

[pure spear]

I’d need to see the rewards

Cause we know what Normal and Savage bring

[marble grove]

Inb4 it's 3 mounts per raid now

[nocturne escarp]

It'll take some adjustment, but I think I prefer more strictly defined tanking roles. Will have to actually see the changes in action before I can really judge it

[visual geyser]

Gear seems to just be changing in general

[pure spear]

Is the middle stage worth running for stuff, or is it better to jump into Savage

[trim frost]

like i'm sure the dps margins between reborn and evolved are close to negligible but you know that pf andies are gonna take any mention of a difference in dps and run with it so i'm just kinda frustrated that they even brought it up at all

[pure spear]

That was a statement they made

[marble grove]

Middle could just end up being a training ground

[visual geyser]

It’s reborn and what’s the other one called

[versed kayak]

well right now you can be either regardless of job, so if you main GNB and you join a party that needs a MT you can do that

if the MT/OT is important enough with evolved then you wouldn't be able to do that anymore

[pure spear]

They want it to be negligible so one won’t fully overpower the other

[thin fox]

[trim frost]

why not just say "oh we'll try to equalize the modes as much as possible" but the fact that they said "evolved will be slightly stronger" just fucked up everything

[limpid edge]

i wonder how much doomin we seein on xivdisc

[thin fox]

this is such a crazy claim from them though that can't possibly be true. how can they possibly make a white mage with 0 cast times on glare feel the same as a white mage with cast times?

[trim frost]

yes it's still only a meme that people are like "NO REBORN JOBS" but that will actually unironically manifest in pf if they don't make changes to it

[marble grove]

What will likely happen is PFs enforcing a rule of having at least a PLD (or new Tank) every time, which tbf isn't that limiting

[versed kayak]

ehh, I feel like people will just use the logs to do the same thing anyway

[pure spear]

I think it can help first time savage raiders but there still needs to be a good incentive for the experienced team you know

[nocturne escarp]

But they're also making job switching easier with the new changes, so changing to a MT/OT isn't as hard.

[pure spear]

We’ll just see as we get closer to release unfortunately

[marble grove]

They did say it'd be another way to obtain gear

[eager jackal]

they nuked raid buffs, so its likely easier to "balance" between the 2 modes

[jade nimbus]

Btw did they remove dot from whm?

[ember quartz]

But how will i buffcull in foray raids now

[marble grove]

Overall it just seems Combat content will be faster paced, which I won't complain about

[pure spear]

Yeah I just need to see it. Theorizing makes my brain go all over the place when it’s vague

[nocturne escarp]

People will do it regardless.

The difference could be a rounding error and PF will throw a fit about it

[pure spear]

Regardless I am excited for everything (and the inevitable free fantasia)

[buoyant zealot]

Perfect fanfest aside from jobs, everything was fire

[visual geyser]

Real!

[thin fox]

I mean for some jobs it might not even be an issue of dmg difference. Do you want the white mage who has to cast all the time or the white mage who never needs to cast?

[marble grove]

2nd

[robust shoal]

real question is how are they gonna think of buttons to add to smn to give it 16 buttons in evolved mode

[jade nimbus]

Doesn't it depend on potency/also them new whm Doesn't have the lillies?

[limpid edge]

what if they make smn more complex?

[eager jackal]

hear me out, they give SMN DoTs again

[devout wraith]

reaction combat guysssss

[versed kayak]

I'm also curious if vpr and pct will change all that much

[remote gate]

my biggest and number 1 concern though is that evolved is made entirely by one guy. each job has its own unique factors to it and being maintained only by one dude is going to be a lot of work for him as well as other factors.

like now that healer dps spells are instant cast while all healing is casted is going to make things really weird. like would all the healing plans have to he changed because you have to cast collective unconscious or other things? these kinds of thing being pinned all on one dude seems like a lot might be missed

[marble grove]

Viper could've been consolidated from the start ngl

[pure spear]

We actually just go full melee and smack them with the book while the summon cheers us on

[lavish kernel]

im finally catching up on crafting

[thin fox]

i oculd see them combining short/long combo and white/black for pct. theyre mutually exclusive buttons anyway so.

[nocturne escarp]

summoning now requires a 15 step ritual and must use their mana to keep the summon alive

[jade nimbus]

The guy on stage is the combat director, but he isn't making all the job rotations and action himself, imo

[worn bluff]

wait war is OT now?

[remote gate]

viper was designed with evolve in mind from the start

[pure spear]

Evolved WAR is

[flint ledge]

So uh when is relic step coming out

[pure spear]

7.55

[buoyant zealot]

1 guy?
dude we're doomed 💀 Not even in a doomer way im just thinking, didn't YoshiP said they got a bigger team now? huh?

[marble grove]

My 2cents.
Right now we're all worried and the sort, 2 months after the expansion comes out no one will want to go back to Reborn mode lol

[worn bluff]

all the warrior mains won’t like that

[terse zodiac]

i didn't even notice tank stance is completely gone in evolved, provoke gives you a 10 second tank stance

[pure spear]

As long as I can still fell cleave idgaf

[nocturne escarp]

Warrior deserves to be OT

[pure spear]

I need that dopamine

[lavish kernel]

crafts kotatsu table

[buoyant zealot]

Aggro is back 🧎‍♂️ joking

[pure spear]

Oh and the monkey flip

[dapper zealot]

I hope sage focuses on better st and party kardia

[pure spear]

Let me keep that

[flint ledge]

and when is that

[pure spear]

Uhhh

[marble grove]

September?

[flint ledge]

oh wow basically my birthday

[visual geyser]

They made WAR OT so they can’t ask to do the most damage while having the best mitigation like always

[pure spear]

[dapper zealot]

wonder how they'll change dnc

[limpid edge]

war shouldve been MT cuz it fits the take daamge do counter archetype

[eager jackal]

IT IS?????

[visual geyser]

This new job system is all a ploy to get people to play pvp. Right @quick verge ?

[shy obsidian]

expansion all about ice n winter n shit
release expected around summer

[eager jackal]

who tf writes this stuff?

[marble grove]

Release is January lol

[nocturne escarp]

As a PLD main, I'm glad SE recognizes us as the main character of the raid. No other tank deserves to be in that role.

[quick verge]

who gaf

[visual geyser]

January = summer L O L.

[quick verge]

they're australian

[shy obsidian]

oh shit dats a long way away

[nocturne escarp]

WAR self-healing is about to be taken out back and put down

[pure spear]

9 months

[marble grove]

Earlier than expected tbh

[visual geyser]

Square Enix made these changes to make xivdiscussion happy little did they know xivdiscussion is never happy.

[pure spear]

Happy, like that Mr Happy guy

Right

[limpid edge]

is he happy?

[pure spear]

Sorry I’m tired af and I have raid later

[marble grove]

He looked happy

[visual geyser]

No I’m happy

[marble grove]

Are you really tho?

[limpid edge]

mr UNHAPPY

[timber stratus]

mr beast

[marble grove]

Mr WHM too Easy now

[visual geyser]

Mr prime.

[eager jackal]

I'm not going to lie, I'm 100x more excited to see the new expansion job changes than I was learning about DT job changes

[limpid edge]

you still need to finish DT

[eager jackal]

yeah but let me be happy

[pure spear]

Mr Happy?

[marble grove]

8.0 has me on a chokehold

[versed haven]

ENDGAME PLAYERS HOW ARE WE FEELING

[tulip wraith]

can confirm

[versed haven]

PUT ON YOUR DRG POSITIONALS AND TAKE OFF YOUR 2 MINUTE BURST WINDOWS

[timber stratus]

if emnity management is actually a thing that would be cool

[nocturne escarp]

I want more PLD changes

[odd beacon]

PLD needs a little more time in the oven but I dig the concept

[visual geyser]

I think I want a little more skills

[dapper zealot]

Dps changes are cooking

Tank and healer are overcooked

[lyric summit]

try evolved combat ingame now with this debug command: /gs eq Su

[visual geyser]

I’m worried about how fun the jobs are over the course of a long fight lol

[nocturne escarp]

Maybe they killed WHM because all the other healers got massive changes

[odd beacon]

I think they're upping the pace of fights given how much faster DRG seems to be but it doesn't exactly inspire confidence when they said Reborn will still be able to clear

[wicked delta]

i think they should've just committed and killed reborn mode instead of whatever this is lol

[visual geyser]

I’ll play both because I’m not a numbers slob

[tulip wraith]

true

[lyric summit]

is it job identity when the rotation is 1-2-3 combo on positionals that unlocks a dragon flavored fell cleave spam

[visual geyser]

Evolved is gonna kill the monk rotation so I’ll have to play reborn to get my fix 🥹

[tulip wraith]

its very clear they wanted to make everything have evolved as the main choice considering 8.0 jobs wont have reborn as an option

[nocturne escarp]

It's whatever. It's just a compromise so certain people don't get salty about their job changing too much

I think Reborn dies down the line regardless

[wicked delta]

dont think that matters bc they change monk/ast every expansion without a care in the world anyway; they shouldnt change their philosophy like this when it feels inevitable that reborn mode will be killed later in the expansion anyway

[nocturne escarp]

Reworking one or two jobs is different than reworking the entire system

[wicked delta]

and they should commit to that new system than whatever this is

[odd beacon]

Reborn exists for being a data point and transitional period which I also understand are both necessary but it does make 8.0 kinda sucky since its essentially their testing ground for the reworks

[nocturne escarp]

I agree they should just rip the band aid off now, but I see why they're hesitant

[wicked delta]

like i see why they're hesitant but i feel like reborn mode will just keep them from experimenting with what works and what doesnt

[limpid edge]

anyone here reborn?

[lyric summit]

people will go back to reborn

[dapper zealot]

True cause they have to balance both reborn and evolved

[odd beacon]

Isn't it the opposite? Reborn is there so they know what works and what doesn't

Without Reborn what are they comparing Evolved to?

[wicked delta]

they gotta balance fights to let reborn and evolved clear so thats why i say it

[dapper zealot]

I feel they have enough data of how reborn works over the last several years

[lyric summit]

has anyone here been hyped for 6.0 smn. and then did msq on it. and realised it sucks ass because you have 16 buttons that change to different actions under certain conditions and you also pretty much have all buttons at 50 so you feel like you're not unlocking anything new as you're leveling
or just me

[wicked delta]

its not even necessarily about the jobs themselves but everything it'll impact overtime

[trim frost]

that’s my big worry about the “all fundamentals at level 50” bit

[wicked delta]

yo can these mfs take off slowmode barely anyone talks here now

[odd beacon]

Ya but we all know Reborn is here just for testing and transitional period which again is why I also said 8.0 encounters could be kinda sucky as a result of this

[trim frost]

1984 🥀

[timber stratus]

using my 30 seconds to call u stupid heehee

[lyric summit]

the conditional swapping for utility like clemency or shirk is greak but i'm dooming about the actual rotations being DEAD

[odd beacon]

Honestly thank god

[wicked delta]

again i see why they havent deleted it, i just think they should do it anyway to get it over with lol

[timber stratus]

can cope that they showed gimped kits to not show any level 100+ stuff

[nocturne escarp]

The rest of the 8.0 job changes will turn PLD into an entirely different beast, just have faith

[odd beacon]

Okay but if an evolved kit turns out to be like actual horseshit and players are mostly reacting negatively to it what will they fall back to?

[versed kayak]

definitely worried about the actions changing because I don't like auto combo, but idc about unlocking skills when leveling so I'm happy they fixed the low level issue at least

[lyric summit]

no? that's full hotbars that's literally the design intent behind evolved

[finite moon]

I'm not quite sure what was going on with Paladin

[thin fox]

it wont matter cuz evolved will be required for high end

[odd beacon]

If a job is showing more engagement with Reborn than Evolved despite the DPS difference then it tells them the Evolved kit is a flop

[timber stratus]

i can still cope about it

[nocturne escarp]

They completely changed PLD in 6.3 so it could better fit with the 2m, but the 2m will be dead now, so we're still stuck with the worse rotation unless they really change it up

[finite moon]

Imperator combo had zero CD and was just flat out better than the melee combo? So why would I ever do melee combo if I can keep doing imperator combo?

[lyric summit]

ppl will just switch to a different evolved job then

[dapper zealot]

It looks good. Seems like you get your base kit of 7-8 skills then maybe 2-3 additions every 10 levels ish

[thin fox]

show me 1 person who is going to play the reborn healer over the evolved healer and i'll show you 1 person who should be blacklisted from pf

[odd beacon]

And thats still data to them to show that the job's evolved kit isn't driving engagement

[low ingot]

20 apm, finally 🤩

[nocturne escarp]

Hopium is believing that because they said this was an early dev build that there's still plenty they're hiding for Pally

[finite moon]

We've decided to make something easy, even easier, and instead of pressing one button for your attack over and over again you... wait.

[timber stratus]

idk that part i dont believe they have a Habit of just saying shit, i need to try it myself or see some actual good people on media tour try it

[shadow pilot]

[odd beacon]

Like everyone sees the writing on the wall that Reborn will be done away eventually but they can't really iterate well on Evolved without something to fall back to

[nocturne escarp]

To be fair, that was only WHM

[lyric summit]

pld I don't really care about, but bard is actual smn, you get one charge every 20s to spend on dot (garuda), fast aoe combo (titan) or cast time big hit (ifrit)
but there's 21 other jobs so hopefully something will be fun

[shadow pilot]

Yeah
I would rather thinking they know what they are doing than dooming that they will make job dumbing down

[thin fox]

"Tried our best to make WHM even easier to use than before" is like the absolute most psychotic thing the dev team has ever said about healers and it should be an instant 'you are never allowed to work on healer design ever again' phrase

[finite moon]

Yeah so we took healer, and we actually have found a way to make it more boring 👏

[limpid edge]

i have a feeling mr prime is a dps player

[nocturne escarp]

Just play a different healer

[odd beacon]

they kinda cooked with SGE in pvp..

[lyric summit]

healers I actually have most hope for, it's already one button, hard to fuck that up any more

[nocturne escarp]

Pretty sure they said he is

[finite moon]

I thought it was funny that they mentioned how unfun it was to just press your one dps button on cooldown to then make it so you just press one dps button on cooldown

[lyric summit]

every other job is now just gonna play like healer tho

[limpid edge]

did they just make mr prime the fall guy for all job complains moving forward?

[odd beacon]

Are you deadass saying this after that DRG and BRD showcase

[tulip wraith]

i do enjoy how using your gcd heals adds to a stack that buffs your st attack

[low ingot]

that was my exact reaction

[odd beacon]

They even showed that it has to be healing that actually heals right cuz they tried doing it and realized it wasn't working cuz they were full HP

[thin fox]

they seem to be p much saying this is going to be for all healers. otherwise it seems completely insane to just have 1 healer who is a phys range. you just INSTANTLY lock white mage over astro.

[limpid edge]

the moment i heard "he designed all the jobs!""" i was like oooh nooo

[nocturne escarp]

All I care about is Paladin and tanking. The other jobs are whatever

[finite moon]

Well so far Paladin based on what we've seen is press imperator combo over and over and time your sheltron a bit better

[lyric summit]

drg = hit flank, flank, rear > spend dragon fell cleaves > pvp limit break, it's like a 7 gcd loop
brd = smn see above

[tulip wraith]

semi incentivizing more to not heal at max/close because youre not getting a buff

[thin fox]

if whm is the only healer with the casting change there is never a reason to let an astrologian into your party when the white mage has permanent free movement all the time and can thus do mechanics that astrologians simply cannot do

[nocturne escarp]

We'll just have to wait and see I suppose

[odd beacon]

Okay which part of this is "healers"?

[trim frost]

if they were confident enough in whm changes to show whm off as the healer example that does not bode well for the other healers

[finite moon]

But you can now press glare even faster

[mortal garnet]

oh wow they actually killed 2 mins meta

[limpid edge]

i get kinda scared when they mentioin the A word

[odd beacon]

tbf WHM is the white bread of healers

[lone citrus]

I'm honestly chill they want gcd heals to be used

[nocturne escarp]

PLD and WHM are the vanilla ice cream of their roles, so it's easier to show off the changes for them

[thin fox]

Oops! Sorry for that enrage on M11S. My fault? No sir. As a healer, it is my job to heal!

[trim frost]

retweet

[odd beacon]

I like that they're honing onto that you actually have to GCD heal with healers but like what everyone else has said its the fact that the current iterations + whatever additions 8.0 will have of healers will still be able to clear the content like??

[lone citrus]

So are they removing ogcds in favor of a shorter gcd?

[nocturne escarp]

Can't wait for that clip to be shoved into every conversation about healing from now on

[thin fox]

mb for having 60% uptime as white mage in 8.0. not my job to do dmg.

[finite moon]

Get ready to add NO REBORN to your pf listings 🤯

[limpid edge]

curious how much the dps diff is gonna be

[finite moon]

I think it's funny that evolved is more because naturally I assumed the thing that is obviously easier would be a bit less

[nocturne escarp]

potency increases

[visual geyser]

watch world first clear on all Reborn's while pf makes a big stink about evolved only

[versed kayak]

need some carrot to have people play the new thing

[finite moon]

Right but naturally if something is better and easier then you leave zero reason to not use that mode

[nocturne escarp]

Taking away raid buffs means they're going be throwing more potency into your combos, Evolved seems to be more about combos

[odd beacon]

I mean they need to know how people are performing lol

[trim frost]

this is what i’ve been saying and i don’t understand why people are resistant to this perspective

[versed kayak]

a natural choice if you don't want to maintain two different systems forever

[finite moon]

Yeah so just remove the old system outright and stop this fence walking nonsense

[lone citrus]

They even said Reborn is getting some new visuals right?

[odd beacon]

We don't know this though, we've only seen 4 jobs out of 21, and even that is still STC

A job could still have an actual abhorrent kit that is worth sacrificing the whatever one decimal point of dps difference

[nocturne escarp]

Probably 9.0, but perhaps earlier if Evolved is received good enough

[visual geyser]

not everyone is gonna be doing raids where this is even an issue

[lavish mortar]

I want them to keep the old shit because it will be fun to go back

[lone citrus]

I'll miss Dragoon's cherry blossom music

[nocturne escarp]

They want both to be able to clear all content, so trying to balance around two different systems might lead to issues is the point being made

[visual geyser]

thats what patches and adjustments will be for, doesnt mean they just have to scrap reborn

[clear plume]

cant wait for a multi target fight to release and we get m6s on steroids

[odd beacon]

Reborn has to stay so they can have data but as a result EC will suffer a bit in the encounter department

[visual geyser]

cant say this confidentally yet its still so early

[versed kayak]

could also just mean they'll give them roughly the same dps and everything else is a player issue

design fights for evolved and let people figure out how to play them on reborn

[nocturne escarp]

I'm just gonna reserve my judgement until we actually see this in action. 9 months is a lot of time for stuff to change

[visual geyser]

the zones dont even have names yet, you have to wait before you can even say how encounter design will be effected

[odd beacon]

I mean, same can be said for demanding Reborn just be removed outright. We don't know how EC plays.

[timber stratus]

what about the Trout population

[visual geyser]

i just resubbed and im not motivated to get my tomes, yoshi p help

im gonna save posts like this for a few years down the line when we ask for it back

[trim frost]

t/karethcrestfall

[nocturne escarp]

good, WHM mains deserve nothing

[finite moon]

Well with EC the question remains if they will actually do the things people say and make more depthful interesting boss mechanics. Or if they will more or less play exactly the same just while pressing less buttons.

[visual geyser]

missing the dot 😭

[thin fox]

looks like dots are #gone. brd dots were gonna too no?

[nocturne escarp]

9.0 fight design will be peak. Just trust the process

[trim frost]

brd looked kinda weird it was like you applied the dots but for ten seconds only and one after the other

[odd beacon]

Yea I'm not hopeful about this since they want Reborn to still clear the same stuff

[nocturne escarp]

8.0 fights will either be mid or trash, but it'll all be worth it when 9.0 comes. I'm basing this on nothing

[dapper zealot]

8.0 music leaked https://youtu.be/ys21nMW2oyc?si=iVmydFo1M3aKMQen

[visual geyser]

WHM being braindead is in line with WHM's historical job identity ngl

[odd beacon]

I wish they had one of the other 3 healers for contrast

[visual geyser]

i wish they had a caster so i can so how they have 0 casts aswell lol

[limpid edge]

good track]

[dapper zealot]

Imagine warrior losing fell cleave

[thin fox]

warrior being ot is a crime

[odd beacon]

Warrior being OT is fine if it's not the same Warrior to begin with. It just feels like a crime.

[timber stratus]

clearly its because new tank has a shield like paladin and Shield = real tank

[finite moon]

I'm not sure how you make fights where these changes are important like MT / OT if you also still plan on them being clearable by people playing Reborn mode

[dapper zealot]

Drk should be able to flex both

[nocturne escarp]

For me it depends on how strict they make this MT/OT difference. I don't think they'll completely murder WAR to make it fit in OT, but idk

[odd beacon]

But at the same time Warrior's job identity is often conflated with its self healing so idk maybe they want to go all in on the axe rather than the healing

[visual geyser]

going double barrier and pure is mostly fine isnt it

[nocturne escarp]

real and true

[odd beacon]

Double pure is a little more troll but double barrier is fun

[wicked delta]

Its so over

[trim frost]

this is unironically what it is

[timber stratus]

yeah i know thats such a square idea

[finite moon]

But it doesn't matter at all because reborn mode can also clear everything

[visual geyser]

all i care about is if DRK can use their HP for spells

[finite moon]

That requires more thought so I doubt it.

[trim frost]

oh yeah i suppose it’s obvious that they’re probably gonna fully remove job quests giving actions/traits now

[odd beacon]

Its probably still traits but probably not much on actions yea

[thin fox]

FAKE CASTERS -> HEALER, SUMMONER

REAL CASTERS -> BARD

[trim frost]

pvpbros are we back

[timber stratus]

bro is talking into the void

[dapper zealot]

At least they removed cure 1

[trim frost]

i meant like pranged having cast times in pvp 😭

[visual geyser]

peak

[trim frost]

you think i can squeeze my way into diamond this season

from gold 1 😀

[stray forge]

Can’t believe they made fury warrior real

[thin fox]

this might b my new fav trailer tbh

[verbal whale]

Picto will be peak with cavas timers and not have by to draw

[rain geode]

whats the best way to grind mogtomes?

[trim frost]

alexander raids i think if you’re just looking at tomes/hr

[visual geyser]

do it for the hellhound gear

[trim frost]

bro i want to so bad but if the queues ain’t popping what can i do

[visual geyser]

its gonna be a wait for next season angle unfort

[thin fox]

WE, and i mean WE, are ALL joining watashia pfs on the switch 2

[trim frost]

unironically i’m considering moving to jp for a month or so just for the pvp queues if they’re still bad on na

[dapper zealot]

Peak

[visual geyser]

wtf is watashia

[stray forge]

Damn I wish I could travel to and live in a country for a month just for PvP

[sinful brook]

Based on the tweets so far no one at the fanfest wipes

[trim frost]

well. i’m traveling to asia for a month already so im just debating if it would be worthwhile to just move my whole shit over for the time being lol

[versed haven]

EVOLVED MODE

[visual geyser]

evolved monk whats the gimmick

[versed haven]

What was its original gimmick

[somber forge]

No, BRD dots are comboed from Mage's Ballad now

[visual geyser]

the rotation LMFAO

[stray forge]

Evolved monk gets harpe except it’s a hadouken

[versed haven]

Honestly, what if with reworked monk, they don't change how its OGCDs work, and keep it mostly the same alongside giving it timers again?

[thin fox]

tyhey should give every job a castbar except summoner

[stray forge]

Give warriors a WoW slam

[whole estuary]

DRK becomes Monhun Greatsword

[visual geyser]

timers again 🙂

[versed haven]

Y-you didn't like the timers?

[visual geyser]

not really after SB

[whole estuary]

MNK will be changed so that Sprint consumes a charge of Perfect Balance

[versed haven]

Considering that they're honing in on the fact that they're trying to make jobs as unique as they were in ARR while streamlining them for a modern audience, it's hard to say what'll be in store for ones like monk or AST

[visual geyser]

FF14 community actually funny

[thin fox]

[shadow pilot]

[limpid edge]

can they let us get rid of the mp gauge on non-mp jobs yet?

[wicked delta]

Wait im a little confused, can you change to evolved mode outside of combat but still in instance or what?

[sinful brook]

Close enough welcome back stance dancing

Would hilarious if they allow changing mid combat

[visual geyser]

you can switch out of combat should mean you can go back and forth

[proper cave]

Didn’t specify but I’d imagine it’s locked like job changes in duties

[wicked delta]

Thats what in assuming but it would be really funny if you could switch mid duty

“Oops sorry we wiped ill switch to evolved rq”

[sinful brook]

That's how some guild wars 2 instances happen

We wipe and someone swaps specs to like heal or buffs

[timber stratus]

back to phalanx banner slave

[visual geyser]

is mr beast in evercold @spare jasper ?

[wicked delta]

Yoshi must’ve been playing GW2 lately lol

[craggy marsh]

He's in the Mist expansion. Mist or Beast

[random needle]

Yippee, I already have worthy glam for Evercold I think

[untold oyster]

Chat is it true. Is the game gonna be fun again???? No more 2min meta????

[errant rivet]

the new customizations is defo the devs learning from modbeasts

[shy obsidian]

maybe I gotta rework my reaper outfit for Evercold...

[scarlet lintel]

:3

[mortal garnet]

where's the no switch part

[torn kindle]

The PL will have 7 MCH use flamethrower on you and see if you DC

[shy obsidian]

i hope reaper is actually good in the future
i love the fantasy but I hate how it worksss

[visual geyser]

They can cook hard with evolved reaper ngl

[torn kindle]

I think a lot of jobs will feel better when the 2m burst meta goes away, Since they can burst more often

[errant rivet]

bonus for eu/jp = fr/de onry, jp onry, reborn onry, bonus if gatekeep to one DC

[amber fable]

Pld being mt tank now

[nocturne escarp]

PLD was always MT

[amber fable]

Pld was better as ot, not that it cant but wings are easier to deploy as ot

[nocturne escarp]

Or people can just learn to group up for my wings :)