It's content designed for serious raiders
#endgame-lounge
verbal frost
visual geyser
less content they have to make rewards for to
verbal frost
hardcore raiders
jolly flume
the clear rates for crit savage aren't that much lower than the hardest ultimates
verbal frost
similar to q40
verbal frost
there was ZERO reason to remove it
whole estuary
"nuh uh, at least 4 people did it"
verbal frost
I think what they did with Aloalo was stupid
I think tying glamour weapons to criteron savage is dumb
rapid whale
hard core raiders make up like, 5% of the population if im being generous tho
verbal frost
people do criteron savage not for rewards
visual geyser
having 4 modes to make good rewards for 
verbal frost
they should be doing it because it's an achivement to clear it.
idk
variant advanced is gonna flop imo
visual geyser
criterion people wanted to be easier
verbal frost
I don't get the point of it.
jolly flume
alo had 2/3rd the clears as fru
visual geyser
alot of people said criterion was too hard
rapid whale
variant advanced is gonna flop imo
verbal frost
criterion savage is litearlly just
adding permadeath
and making shit do more dmg
it's not adding new mechanics
visual geyser
and removing makers for mechs
verbal frost
it doesn't take much effort
rapid whale
that's it, we're adding valtan hell mode into the game get ready for peak
verbal frost
it's like
1 time clear content
you clear it specifically for a title or something else similar
and because you enjoy progging it.
q40 is the exact same thing.
verbal frost
I think they need to treat more content like that
verbal frost
I don't get why they made similar content like q40
and then immediately remove the most similar content to it
it's questionable imo
visual geyser
keep basic variant the same because there was nothing wrong with it really + nerf criterion because people said it was too difficult + make another criterion but also make it more challenging to cover the savage loss
visual geyser
thats what they did
verbal frost
if they keep criterion savage
just making regular criteron easier
while removing criteron savage
only pisses off the hardcore / world race raiders.
visual geyser
theyll live
verbal frost
and I agree I think criteron should probably be easier
rapid whale
hear me out what if advanced mode is old criterion difficulty and they amped up criterion to justify 1 res per boss
visual geyser
they did say the new criterion is more difficult
verbal frost
theyll live
I mean just becuase you aren't one doesn't mean you can judge them lets be real here.
jolly flume
theyll live
thats just an argument in bad faith tho lol
clear plume
Have you even done criterion? I know you started the game in anab and literally don’t have it on your tomestone
visual geyser
me?
clear plume
Cooly
visual geyser
oh
verbal frost
Here's my opinion
visual geyser
criterion was the only thing keeping me subbed in EW
verbal frost
I think content like chaotic / criteron is very good
if they want to add like a hardcore version of these contents
go ahead and do it
but don't tie the cool rewards to it like they did with alo alo crit savage
ake it a one tier clear reward or something
visual geyser
meh
verbal frost
It doesn't take much effort Mr Ozma even said it himself.
craggy marsh
I think they should put me in charge of criterion because ill make it awesome and cool and the best thing in the game
jolly flume
im pretty sure most people who did crit savage did it for the love of the game anyways
visual geyser
id have to see how the criterion actually is
craggy marsh
versed kayak
but don't tie the cool rewards to it like they did with alo alo crit savage
this sounds like "don't put cute mount behind savage"
jolly flume
the weapons are cool but
clear plume
Like acting like most HC players liked savage criterion is straight up a lie I love criterion but like
verbal frost
im pretty sure most people who did crit savage did it for the love of the game a...
ye
jolly flume
idgaf about
rapid whale
so let me see if i understand your argument @verbal frost hard core content is fine to have, but cute/cool glam stuff should be accessible on lower difficulties to get more of the midcore/casual population doing said content?
jolly flume
the rewards really
dapper moon
tbh, even as someone that did all criterion savage, i still think that savage was just tedious more than fun. i'd rather them make criterion fights harder but without the dumb no res rule than having the same content but not as fun
clear plume
Most people did not like its rewards of a title
visual geyser
this sounds like "don't put cute mount behind savage"
this was basically their ideology this patch
verbal frost
the weapons are cool but
nah like what I'm saying is the weapons should have been in noraml criteron
visual geyser
none of the hardcontent actually had exclusive shit in .45
versed kayak
this was basically their ideology this patch
It's sad, I want more forum content
visual geyser
.35 i mean
verbal frost
I think crit savage / q40. content like this should only reward a title
or in the case of q40 if you can clear it consistenly
make it a good method to get other rewards
versed kayak
I think crit savage / q40. content like this should only reward a title
ultimates too then?
jolly flume
my take is basically just limited to I'm annoyed that they got rid of criterion savage because this game needs more actually hard 4 man content
idc about loot generally
verbal frost
Ultimates are an exception though, right?
Ultimates actually take effort to make
they take way more effort than all of this
visual geyser
idk
dapper moon
with them putting an achievement to clear criterion normal without wiping or dying instead of having a different instance that's literally the same
verbal frost
of course you have to go all out when you do rewards for an ultimate
while criteron savage / q40 is literally just scaling up a boss
rapid whale
It's sad, I want more forum content
was the axolotl mount actually a big deal or was it just a funny community meme
visual geyser
do we know how much effort it took to make criterion and crit savage
verbal frost
What I'm saying is
versed kayak
with them putting an achievement to clear criterion normal without wiping or dyi...
crit savage does deal more more damage than regular criterion, but yeah it would be a solution
verbal frost
yeah criteron took effort to make
criteron savage is litearlly just scaling the encounter
jolly flume
with them putting an achievement to clear criterion normal without wiping or dyi...
ok heres where our perspectives differ
im a healer player, normal criterion does fuck all
I want to feel something
clear plume
with them putting an achievement to clear criterion normal without wiping or dyi...
Still wouldnt make the mit checks and dps the same, you get away with a lot of shit
verbal frost
so what I'm saying is
this content that is "scaled up" should be treated like niche content.
for ppl who actually want to do it for the love of the game
dapper moon
crit savage does deal more more damage than regular criterion, but yeah it would...
i know. that's why i said that i wish they'd make criterion itself harder in general, given that the punishment for failure is not as severe as savage
verbal frost
and the reward is a cool title / adventuere plate.
versed kayak
q40 isnt just purely scaled up but we had that argument earlier already
verbal frost
something like that.
rapid whale
for ppl who actually want to do it for the love of the game
ic so for the masochists they will do it for the love of the game ANYWAY, am i following
verbal frost
q40 isnt just purely scaled up but we had that argument earlier already
yeah ik
I think like
criteron savage and q40 aren't directly the same obviously
ik q40 is different in a lot of ways
but it's kind of the same concept
dapper moon
like, without the one life rule, they can make stuff harder without having the punishment part that makes it a chore to do
verbal frost
ic so for the masochists they will do it for the love of the game ANYWAY, am i f...
ye
visual geyser
im just saying there is already 3 different versions of the next criterion
dapper moon
but that's just for me. mine is an opinion as valid as any other
verbal frost
I mean ppl like Xenos literally said it themselves and they actually do the content
even mrhappy
verbal frost
they just do the hard content for the love of the game
clear plume
Xeno literally hated the rewards on release
Like full rant video still on his channel
dapper moon
of rokkon water lines
bro, that shit was fucked lol
verbal frost
for crit savage idk
visual geyser
i mean mrhappy only did crit savage once or twice
verbal frost
did he?
verbal frost
I mean I think the problem with variant / criterion
jolly flume
and kitchen sinked
visual geyser
having content people only did once or twice is cringe
jolly flume
on water lines
verbal frost
is that even base level criteron had a shit reward system
versed kayak
im self reporting here
some patterns are fucking cursed on that
verbal frost
so why are they bothering splitting the rewards between crit and criteron savage
visual geyser
theres plenty of sickos that do ultimates multiple times
visual geyser
atleast they get good money form that
verbal frost
it's for the love of the game
clear plume
There are sickos who farm criterion’s for Gil
verbal frost
I think making shit marketboardable is good
chaotic did that
and chaotic is very farmable repeat content
visual geyser
i was running criterion with like the same group of 3-5 people
chaotic also gave upgrade gear too
verbal frost
I mean even for Chaotic I think they could have had a harder mode if they really tried
but I think base level Chaotic is fine ppl already complained enough
it's just not a good idea with 24 ppl
dapper moon
i can agree on the criterion reward problem. i think that if they want to release stuff that's on par with savage raiding, some savage level rewards wouldn't be that bad. hell, i hoped they had something figured out after how chaotic rewards turned out, but i guess we can only wait and see
rapid whale
24 man ultimate when
visual geyser
i think base chaotic shouldve been easier
clear plume
Putting shit on marketboard is antithetical to “add stuff to medium difficulty to incentivize people to try it”
verbal frost
but ya like I said
visual geyser
chaotic shouldve had 2 modes
clear plume
Because they won’t try it they’ll just throw Gil at it
visual geyser
id have to see
verbal frost
variant (advanced) is gonna flop so hard
I genuinely don't see who the content is for
maybe it's just me tho
visual geyser
people really wanted criterion to be easier
verbal frost
they can make criteron easier
if they add a harder difficulty
now they are removing the harder difficulty
rapid whale
variant advanced is for the extreme wing farmer gamers
verbal frost
so they are probably just going to make criteron harder
rapid whale
and that is the extent of their content
verbal frost
that's going to be the issue watch
visual geyser
so they are probably just going to make criteron harder
ye thats what they did
verbal frost
what they are going to say to the midcore players
visual geyser
?
visual geyser
advanced is the midcore content
verbal frost
because vairant advanced is gonna hvae shit rewards
visual geyser
well maybe
rapid whale
idk the glams looked really pretty
verbal frost
think regular criteiron should be 4 man savage level
jolly flume
I hope they actually balance the new criterion stuff to be roughly as long as it was before incl adds
versed kayak
wasnt variant advanced supposed to be some kinda farming thing so you dont have to run the entire variant all the time
visual geyser
i wouldnt be able to say that definitively
clear plume
Wait until you see the rewards before bitching about them
verbal frost
criteron savage should be ultimate level
if they stuck to that I think it could've worked
dreamy whale
I think extremes are pretty midcore
verbal frost
but now regular criteron is prob gonna be like 4th floor savage or ulti
dapper moon
watch it as they put the best stuff in advanced and suddendly people bitch cause they're giving stuff out too easily
jolly flume
idk I still have hope for criterion being hard but I dunno how much of that is straight cope
and I will for sure miss the adds
dreamy whale
It only took us 2 days of prog for shiva extreme
dreamy whale
Surely that should be manageable for most people
jolly flume
yeah but will it be criterion savage level
visual geyser
boss 3 is probably gonna be annoying as fuck
verbal frost
idk I just think removing criteron savage is a step backwards that's all I was rlly tryna say
clear plume
watch it as they put the best stuff in advanced and suddendly people bitch cause...
Literally was people’s complaint with moon and new exploratory was the mount being too easy to get that it had no value
verbal frost
it's optional content
jolly flume
I'm only willing to cope this hard because criterion has always been good
if not necessarily very difficult
so I have some faith in them
verbal frost
and quantum should have had a token system that lets you upgade the sacremental wepaons into a glowy version
versed kayak
the EW criterions were a nice ladder of difficulty
verbal frost
and q15 gives less and q40 gives more
visual geyser
eh
verbal frost
there's no reason not to have it
visual geyser
the jump from variant to criterion was a little much
verbal frost
I think they fixed the wrong issues
didn't people only complain in EW that criterion was dead b/c of the rewards?
jolly flume
I really don't think criterion normal was that incredibly hard
visual geyser
people complained that criterion normal was too hard
verbal frost
and they are making criteron normal harder
jolly flume
like it wasn't casual andy walk in and clear hard but I was able to get friends through normals in a lockout
remote gate
the rewards were kinda bleh
visual geyser
they are adding a middle mode
verbal frost
while adding variant (advanced)
visual geyser
so it fixes that
rapid whale
okok if all the criterion (new) level fights are q40 level but shorter (say 6min) and difficult enough that the res is basically fake (as in you die anyway the way q40 does) would that make up for the loss of crit savage (old)?
verbal frost
which is probably the same difficulty as regular endwalker variants
visual geyser
plus its 2-4 player scalable
remote gate
besides alola giving goated vfx to the tomestone weapons
visual geyser
idk if the res system in advanced is the same
jolly flume
okok if all the criterion (new) level fights are q40 level but shorter (say 6min...
I'd take that but I'm skeptical if that's actually going to be the case, especially on the point of numerical tuning
verbal frost
okok if all the criterion (new) level fights are q40 level but shorter (say 6min...
no because i think more types of content is better
that was my argument
visual geyser
i dont think they mentioned if you still get the system
verbal frost
if they could have done 4 types of diffiuclty for one content they should have done it.
visual geyser
the duty actions
jolly flume
and I'd still rather have adds
verbal frost
no reason to remove criteron savage.
rapid whale
historically, does gear matter in criterion or is it like q40 where you're thrown in with set stats
clear plume
If new criterion is like, statice level consistent instead of having horse knight as a boss I think losing savage can still be fun for sure
visual geyser
i wouldnt trust them to have 4 pieces of content to have good rewards with
jolly flume
you use bis for crit savage
verbal frost
normal, extreme, savage, and ultimate difficulties
all for one content
but now we prob just have
braindead, normal and ultimate.
watch
this ain't gonna fix the issue
okay maybe I was too hard
maybe it's just
normal, extreme and ultimate
rapid whale
braindead doccy where
visual geyser
braindead but with a cool puzzle
verbal frost
still not gonna fix the issue
verbal frost
but I guarentee you they make the normal variant even easier
visual geyser
😡
jolly flume
variant is pretty boring
verbal frost
I like variant
jolly flume
sue me
versed kayak
but I guarentee you they make the normal variant even easier
thats physically impossible no
dreamy whale
Ik people here don’t take xenosysvex seriously but I think he had a pretty reasonable take that the rewards system is flawed and bare minimum we should be getting mounts/weapons/animations from ultimates instead of a stupid earring you wont ever see and a title
jolly flume
is it more interesting than average dungeon in the game, yeah
is that a high bar, fuck no
verbal frost
thats physically impossible no
it's cbu3 bro
clear plume
Variant being able to be used for levelling jobs already makes any changes in that based and good
verbal frost
is it more interesting than average dungeon in the game, yeah
is that a high bar...
^
I think the normal variant bosses in EW
were actualyl extrmely fun
especially the hidden bosses
why aren't those in criterion btw?
bruh they prob gonna remove the hidden boss watch
alr I don't want to start doomposting I needa chill
holdup
versed kayak
theyve made regular dungeons more interesting, I have a bit of faith in them not dumbing down stuff too much
verbal frost
theyve made regular dungeons more interesting, I have a bit of faith in them not...
I think bosses you can argue
trash pulls in regular dungeons are embarassing atp.
dapper moon
tbh, good luck figuring out what a good difficulty level is in this game. on one hand you have people who call anything below ultimate too easy. on the other you have people who aren't even necessarely bad, but who haven't had that much experience with endgame content so stuff is harder for them in general. the problem being that at the end of the day the real question should be whether the content is actually engaging to go through, which is not always a matter tied to difficulty. which is to say nothing about how people find different things more or less engaging etcetera etcetera
sometimes it feels like there's no winning regardless
verbal frost
personally I think peak boss design for dungeons already happened in shadowbringers / 6.0 tho.
dreamy whale
My hope is that is that q40 was a one off and the rewards are better next time
verbal frost
tbh, good luck figuring out what a good difficulty level is in this game. on one...
Well I'm just annoyed because yoshida said "we want content to be for all players in the game"
verbal frost
and then quantum is literally just high-end content even at the easiest difficulty
dreamy whale
I’ll probably run it once for the title and never again
verbal frost
and they remove criterion savage for no reason
rapid whale
moo do u wanna guess what the reward for crit savage used to be before they did the weapon glam they r talking about
a single materia
verbal frost
I mean wasn't there a title?
visual geyser
i dont even think it had a mount
dreamy whale
Was it even a good materia
rapid whale
guess what
congrats!!
visual geyser
the reward for q40 isnt just a title
daring pine
congrats!!
chicken butt
jolly flume
I got a bush
whole estuary
what if it's 12 pieces of materia
tame shuttle
the reward for q40 isnt just a title
Rain 
dreamy whale
I think that's good enough
People can turn off titles
whole estuary
but they are the fabled movespeed materia
tame shuttle
I got a bush
Chiyo
rapid whale
I got a bush
YO YOU'RE RICH POGGIES
visual geyser
we arent the hook server anymore
jolly flume
hi lizzer
visual geyser
they kicked me out
boreal pumice
think the mount was 100% drop , but also got currency to buy more
visual geyser
daring pine
i dont actually have any good news bapple
tame shuttle
YO YOU'RE RICH POGGIES
Bapol 
daring pine
i just wanted to say chicken butt
rapid whale
aloo lzzr mcguire
tame shuttle
they kicked me out
💀 bruh
verbal frost
it doesn't take much effort to make the content like we said
rapid whale
i dont actually have any good news bapple
it's okay you manifested a clear tonight i believe in u
daring pine
it's okay you manifested a clear tonight i believe in u
im ending it all
tame shuttle
That place is lowkey brain rot anyways
verbal frost
People can turn off titles
It's more of a personal thing anyways tbh.
rapid whale
gg back to the balmung mines with ye
visual geyser
it is what it is
boreal pumice
damn you got cancelled again
verbal frost
I mean the topic that they can add more unique rewards is a whole different discussion
verbal frost
are you viera?
visual geyser
yes
whole estuary
vieraaaaa
daring pine
kinara!
dreamy whale
If I take the time to do high end content I better be able to flex it to literally everyone and not let them turn it off
whole estuary
marce!!!!!
verbal frost
If I take the time to do high end content I better be able to flex it to literal...
No like
tame shuttle
visual geyser
i just wanna play again
verbal frost
I agree to an extent
visual geyser
patch is when
verbal frost
I mean we can talk about how rewards should just flatout be better
visual geyser
in a month
verbal frost
and more interesting
boreal pumice
dec 16th?
rapid whale
If I take the time to do high end content I better be able to flex it to literal...
me putting on ultimate titles with ultimate weapons and ultimate portrait frames
daring pine
marce!!!!!
visual geyser
so far from content
verbal frost
but like that's a whole different discussion
rapid whale
i'm cringe and idc
verbal frost
I don't want to start ranting
versed kayak
and then quantum is literally just high-end content even at the easiest difficul...
casual have an entire deep dungeon and the 99 boss no?
visual geyser
content isnt until january
whole estuary
I like current rewards
dreamy whale
me putting on ultimate titles with ultimate weapons and ultimate portrait frames
Will be me when i clear uwu
visual geyser
emotes as unique rewards
rpers will rage
visual geyser
😡
rapid whale
ah but you see cooly all of those are resources that can be reinvested into a new gacha game instead
verbal frost
i think animation packs will never get added though
visual geyser
in tokyo!
verbal frost
purely because they add / remove moves every expansion
daring pine
im gonna become the ffxiv avatar
verbal frost
it would be too hard to track
daring pine
me when i finish my prog session to go rp in crystal
visual geyser
who needs a new dissidia anyway
verbal frost
but maybe like animation packs for stances and running animations
rapid whale
yo real talk tho the gaia battle theme in the new gacha is kinda peam
verbal frost
shit like that
dreamy whale
Hear me out chat
jolly flume
Will be me when i clear uwu
dont do it
there is no bigger red flag than wearing ultimate legend
boreal pumice
yo real talk tho the gaia battle theme in the new gacha is kinda peam
its just a longfall with return to obvilion
dreamy whale
Exclusive combat actions for clearing the new savage tiers within a week
jolly flume
all my pfers please confirm
rapid whale
verbal frost
there is no bigger red flag than wearing ultimate legend
ye when I first clear UWU and I was rocking it
daring pine
there is no bigger red flag than wearing ultimate legend
heavens legend is right there
dreamy whale
Lets turn the game into tera lol
daring pine
bunny
rapid whale
uchiha red flag
verbal frost
ye I am in the viera tribe
rapid whale
whole estuary
Lets turn the game into tera lol
you don't get your lv 110 capstone unless you week 1 clear the ultimate?
daring pine
uchiha red flag
sasukekw
rapid whale
reaper player opinion invalidated /sarcasm
verbal frost
ik reaper is shit
boreal pumice
a fishing title so you know who the real ones are , big fish /ocean fish
verbal frost
I feel lik viper is a bigger red flag than reaper
bt that's just me
at least reaper has a raidbuff
rapid whale
ok but what about a whm with da moon or something similar in adv plate AND uwu title/weap
daring pine
ok but what about a whm with *da moon* or something similar in adv plate AND uwu...
get out
verbal frost
recipe for disaster
rapid whale
viper is comfy
dreamy whale
you don't get your lv 110 capstone unless you week 1 clear the ultimate?
Nono you get the capstone but if you week 1 clear the ultimate you also get an ability that makes you deal 30% extra damage for 60 seconds on a 30 second cooldown
clear plume
ok but what about a whm with *da moon* or something similar in adv plate AND uwu...
Listen that’s the type of whm that will actually press cure 3
verbal frost
the pf special
daring pine
were you around for chiyo's "eepi kitti" or w/e era
no
clear plume
I prefer that to a “hardcore” whm
rapid whale
LMAOLMAO
daring pine
who
whole estuary
you mean marce??
verbal frost
ultimate legend is just a meme
daring pine
chiyo take that off now
whole estuary
marce is just eating post season discounted halloween candy
rapid whale
unreal ultimates when
daring pine
that would require square enix to care
boreal pumice
stinky chiyo
verbal frost
like
unreal ultis would be cool
but maybe just make the old fights more legit
and then add in newer job weapons for it or smth
rapid whale
idk i kinda like that they are time capsules on old fight design
verbal frost
idk just spitballing
verbal frost
idk i kinda like that they are time capsules on old fight design
rare arr trial defender
clear plume
Unreal ultimates I get why they don’t do, because like, imagine if an ultimate actually got harder over time
dreamy whale
Idk i understand where you’re coming from but at the same time uwu is still difficult for people fresh into ultimates and it’s a good steppingstone
clear plume
That would be a giant oof
whole estuary
Ultimate unreal? Uwuu?
rapid whale
Unreal ultimates I get why they don’t do, because like, imagine if an ultimate a...
lmao imagine an era where uwu is unironically the hardest ulti
whole estuary
uwuuuuuuu
jolly flume
I think its fine for the old ultimates to be piss easy
but I will continue to not do them
for that reason
verbal frost
I think it's kinda ridiculous ngl
but I guess atp it's maybe too late
the damage has already been done
people have gotten the clear
it's a weird topic
jolly flume
I mean it's like
rapid whale
i just accept that not all content is made with my specific type of player in mind idk
jolly flume
look at unreal
clear plume
I like, really think it’s fine that people who hit 70 have something to hit their head against
jolly flume
does making seiryu 100 with modern numbers make it hard
versed kayak
quantum will never be powercrept
potency changes will still power creep it
verbal frost
only powercreep that will happen in quantum is job changes
ye but can they be that bad
idk
quantum balance is already pretty sus
jolly flume
uwu is a joke but even if they tuned up the numbers it's like 10% harder at best and the people it most affects are the ppl who do like 6 man challenge runs
verbal frost
but that's another topic lol
jolly flume
so I just really dont care
verbal frost
uwu is a joke but even if they tuned up the numbers it's like 10% harder at best...
I think they should just tune us down or something idk
the syncing system just isn't that great
clear plume
Prestige for doing old ultimates wouldnt change anyways, it would still be a 7 year old title and no prestige title will hold onto worth that much later
jolly flume
uwu is like 13% on ffxivcollect now lol
rapid whale
wonderbread dw ppl still get inflated egos over getting uwu clears
versed kayak
just remove gear and give fixed stats :D
verbal frost
just remove gear and give fixed stats :D
lowkey screw it imo
horiziontal mmo
kkew
jolly flume
just remove gear and give fixed stats :D
if I ever have to play 2.37 mch again I will just drink bleach
versed kayak
yes, ofc! the best race
verbal frost
very nice
dreamy whale
So whats the dawntrail title is it like
clear plume
wonderbread dw ppl still get inflated egos over getting uwu clears
I mean
rapid whale
if I ever have to play 2.37 mch again I will just drink bleach
how bad is the tool drift
dreamy whale
Dawntrailer
clear plume
Check DMs in a minute
verbal frost
what will the eventual Dawntrail ultimate title be
rapid whale
Check DMs in a minute
o7
jolly flume
how bad is the tool drift
I mean you don't really drift it per se its just
really awful feeling
it reverse drifts but you can delay it back into 2s if you have buffs to feed
verbal frost
Dawn Legend could go hard
jolly flume
but hardly anyone plays buff comps in quantum anyways
dreamy whale
what will the eventual Dawntrail ultimate title be
Four Lords Ultimate
verbal frost
but hardly anyone plays buff comps in quantum anyways
this is why I think they should straightup make raidbuffs scale to party size for all content.
I'm hoping they atleast consider it for 8.0
but I doubt
It would be too much of a rework and they r too lazy I tihnk
jolly flume
I don't think it's problematic because the q40 dps check is fake af anyways and realistically I'd rather just have SE stop trying to balance shit because they fuck it up every time
verbal frost
but it would make the game balance more healthy
like if they do that we can have actual harder and more balanced dps checks I feel
dreamy whale
Imagine dancer gets buffed and dancer can dp the whole party
jolly flume
it's been pretty evident for a while now that SE doesn't balance based on data of any sort and well
verbal frost
💀
jolly flume
just stop cooking
verbal frost
hell nah
verbal frost
it's been pretty evident for a while now that SE doesn't balance based on data o...
I mean ye I play rpr
😂
reaper's entire balance is around fru
versed kayak
Imagine dancer gets buffed and dancer can dp the whole party
you mean tech step?
verbal frost
machinist should be better in ultimate too that's the sad thing
jolly flume
thats probably why
clear plume
I was mch fru clear too pog
verbal frost
sustain jobs are supposed to be better in ultimates
that's the embarassing thing
but burst jobs still own us
rapid whale
???
jolly flume
they never have been really
jolly flume
everyone plays the cd jobs
sinful brook
Living
Playing xiv
Pick one
jolly flume
because they're piss easy to play in ultimate
clear plume
>Living
>Playing xiv
Pick one
But what if I meet my wife on ffxiv
verbal frost
rpr has the worst burst out of any melee
clear plume
Then I’ll be living
sinful brook
Then she echeats on you
jolly flume
gauge jobs are good in final phases bc you bank infinite resource into them but
most ppl rather just play nin mnk drg in their current iterations
dreamy whale
As warrior i get the best of both worlds
jolly flume
bc its just so easy
jolly flume
and honorable mention to vpr for being a prange
dreamy whale
My gauge is a suggestion
verbal frost
they need to rework the system
visual geyser
what will the eventual Dawntrail ultimate title be
Cringe, Legend
verbal frost
vpr / blm should do more damage than samurai to make up for samurai having a way better burst
but they don't design the game like that.
never will.
dreamy whale
What the fuck is this bruh
verbal frost
so bad balance happens.
remote gate
I was livin this life
how did mch escape the bottom of dps
jolly flume
I mean thats just the issue they had with picto exemplified
dreamy whale
Are they all named (word)way
remote gate
like apparently it's good dps now
clear plume
That is literally how they design the jobs, viper has higher rdps than samurai but samurai is higher adps
torn mesa
there is no world where RPR is the best melee in FRU
clear plume
Like current balance is that
vestal hollow
sustain jobs are supposed to be better in ultimates
uh.... what sustain jobs?
lmfao
rapid whale
never forgetti a 50 barsing pct did more than 100 barse 2nd place job on patch
worn bluff
rpr has the worst burst out of any melee
it's just because for some reason they decided to load a bunch of its potency into filler
verbal frost
well yes every job has a burst
vestal hollow
There is no such thing as a sustain job in ffxiv
jolly flume
idk blm is pretty close
versed kayak
I think they use "sustain" instead of "selfish"
jolly flume
most ppl aint puttin 4 xenos in buffs and even if they are it's a lot less spiky than everything else
vestal hollow
so its not sustain
verbal frost
it is sustain
vestal hollow
because they still have bursts
worn bluff
burstiness is mostly a numbers thing
dreamy whale
warrior is bursty for like 6 seconds every minute
verbal frost
they have 0 damage outside of burst
worn bluff
which numbers you put into the burst
verbal frost
and ye u can be more flexible with jobs like ninja and picto
verbal frost
but for standard rotaitons they still do have a strong burst
ninja is way more flexible than drg / mnk
that's crazy take
torn mesa
DRG yes
clear plume
lol
torn mesa
MNK absolutely not
clear plume
Lmao
jolly flume
nin is
verbal frost
can argue it ig
torn mesa
even DRG is debatable
dreamy whale
Ninja has like
dreamy whale
What
vestal hollow
that's a psycho take
dreamy whale
You fuck up your burst by one gcd on ninja and its gone
verbal frost
if ninja is purely a burst job
clear plume
Ninja you absolutely cannot move its cds as easily as monk in any world whatsoever
verbal frost
You fuck up your burst by one gcd on ninja and its gone
we aren't talking about that
torn mesa
NIN damage comes mostly from CDs
FRU P1 favors jobs which do damage via CDs
vestal hollow
for once i agree with noble
verbal frost
yes
torn mesa
CD based jobs inherently are less flexible
verbal frost
jobs like drg / mnk have strict bursts
drg u literally cannot press certain buttons
dreamy whale
Ninja is extremely strict in its burst because the rest of it is 123 stack armor crush pop trick and hyosho every minute
verbal frost
if u don't press 1 button
monk is similar in that sense also
ninja if u really wanted to you can use any button whereever
clear plume
I really think you don’t understand how these jobs work
verbal frost
you aren't locked behind certain button presses
jolly flume
yeah monk actually feels
really good in fru p1-2
because you downtime rof twice
once in utopian once in lr
keeps your shit together
verbal frost
I don't tihnk monk is as extreme as dragoon
jolly flume
no funky shit needed
verbal frost
I'll say that
clear plume
Monk and dragoon is less damage because they have higher filler damage (which gets cut out by downtime) and has nothing to do with burst flexibility
verbal frost
I mean I tihnk the most flexible out of all of them is samurai I don't think that's a hot take
torn mesa
the hot take is arguing NIN being more flexible than MNK
vestal hollow
ninja if u really wanted to you can use any button whereever
but thats inherently strict 
dreamy whale
Because of meikyo shisui
torn mesa
they are very flexible
clear plume
Typed that just to make noble mad
torn mesa
teehee
verbal frost
but thats inherently strict <a:Confus:717764360340242492>
I just think we aren't looking at the same aspects & that's fine but lets just leave it at that ig.
visual geyser
It’s because sam mains are staunch supporters of mpreg
torn mesa
no but like fr
visual geyser
torn mesa
you're so much more KT inelastic as SAM
verbal frost
like if ninja was as strict as drg / mnk it wouldn't be the best dps in a phase like fru p1
torn mesa
compared to MNK NIN DRG
dreamy whale
Oh i wanted to ask
jolly flume
mnk is just so free
verbal frost
I like mnk
clear plume
Ninja solves every kt issue by the fact it does no damage outside of burst so everything dies during it /s
dreamy whale
Does scathe see use in ultimates during movement mechanics or is the boss usually untargetable
jolly flume
if you press scathe your game uninstalls
dreamy whale
So does blm just eat shit
versed kayak
we're making my statics blm press it so he doesnt kill his TEA doll
torn mesa
you have the wrong reason for what jobs are good in P1
dreamy whale
Oh it gets more insta casts?
torn mesa
jobs whose damage comes heavily from CDs
dreamy whale
Epic
jolly flume
it would be faster to list what isnt an instant cast than what is
clear plume
Not the 7.3 fru phase one rankings being taken as statistically sound anyways
dreamy whale
Ic
versed kayak
isnt blm more mobile than rdm, if the rdm cant melee combo and use their finishers
torn mesa
i.e., lower flexibility, because said CDs are typically on a use it or lose it basis
BLM is more mobile than RDM
full stop
jolly flume
instants - triple swift xeno despair both paras f3p thunder
not instants - b3 b4 f4 flare star
lol
torn mesa
triple cast is now just a movement tool
torn mesa
Samurai being so flexible is why they’re so sought after in ultimates it’s true
okay but for real, for FRU right now
dreamy whale
Is orogeny a damage gain on 3
clear plume
Blm has higher percent of time casting but like, you get so much control over when you don’t cast that it doesn’t actually matter
torn mesa
this is just a skill issue
clear plume
Bc no fight forces you to use it all
verbal frost
anyone?
dreamy whale
Also i think pct is too high apm for me
dreamy whale
jolly flume
you have a 5 second long cast
torn mesa
PCT is like the lowest APM job
dreamy whale
Chiyo I play warrior i press like 4 buttons
jolly flume
i unironically think war
verbal frost
picto just has a triple weave in opener that is the hardest part
jolly flume
has more
torn mesa
but I mean.. APM in FFXIV 
sinful brook
APM as a metric in xiv lol
dreamy whale
This starry thingy js crazy
torn mesa
the job with the highest APM in this game is also considered one of the easiest
jolly flume
get a load of this shit
torn mesa
which tells you how meaningless APM is
clear plume
Bring back hw mch burst
sinful brook
Ninja
verbal frost
that's what I would think
sinful brook
Higher than sam
torn mesa
it's VPR now I think
verbal frost
I wouldn't even call jobs like monk high apm
jolly flume
its ok gramps
dreamy whale
Mmaybe moomoo is
verbal frost
monk literally has 1 ogcd damage move
dreamy whale
Dumb
sinful brook
Vpr high prob
jolly flume
we know your hands are too arthritic to mash buttons like in your youth
sinful brook
But the job plays itself
sinful brook
we know your hands are too arthritic to mash buttons like in your youth
Real that's me
clear plume
I wouldn’t be shocked if it was mch still
verbal frost
but the ogcds u do have are used alot
wicked delta
get a load of this shit
Yo we need to kill Bapple
rapid whale
we know your hands are too arthritic to mash buttons like in your youth
fast enough to mash my face into the wall somehow
verbal frost
monk highest apm during burst maybe idk
jolly flume
technically MNK has the highest APM with chakra
reaction turbohotbar:
dreamy whale
How long do we think to get pct from 80 to 84
rapid whale
like 3 dungeons idk
clear plume
About 4 levels worth of time
torn mesa
reaction turbohotbar:
feel my wrath as I laugh at your sloth
jolly flume
🦥
verbal frost
they will never make sustain jobs good
as long their mentality is
samurai should have the same raw damage as black mage / viper
jobs will never be balanced
worn bluff
i used to play RPR. it was mainly good for one thing: being able to focus on mechanics because the rotation was so easy
dreamy whale
Does this look good
verbal frost
and then look at buffed damage
clear plume
Chiyo I know ur new but noct ast didn’t actually exist it was never correct to play
Even if you were double Astro you just went double diurnal
jolly flume
the only thing I know about it is that everyone glazes the fuck out of stb shb ast
I need a time machine
verbal frost
I think AST is way more fun than the other 3 healers
and it makes them appear garbage
I think you guys alraedy have enough
sinful brook
Noct ast was good trust
rapid whale
I need a time machine
you get to try it in xiv mobile
clear plume
It was goated healer design
verbal frost
WHM has like
5 damage buttons
AST has like 8
despite whm doing more damage
same for sage
same for scholar
jolly flume
the whm that does more damage when 8 meteors spawn during death of the heavens and I have a lord macro and star
worn bluff
the other thing with putting so much potency into filler with RPR was that there wasn't much you could really do outside of keeping good uptime and not overcapping on stuff. like you try to feed buffs but it's more like a participation sticker
torn mesa
SAM rDPS is comparable to slightly lower than VPR, and a good deal lower than BLM
it's just buffs have that much more valuable
jolly flume
verbal frost
rdps is a trash metric
let's start there.
only adps / cdps matter if you are talking about actual game balance
clear plume
Brother you were looking at ndps I have news
verbal frost
I'm comparing ndps to adps
ndps is raw damage
adps is buffed damage excluding single traget buffs
clear plume
What do you think rdps is for samurai and viper
rapid whale
im a 99 barsing ndps player that means im good and team suck /s
verbal frost
same as ndps
torn mesa
do you know what rDPS for selfish jobs is
clear plume
So why are you complaining
worn bluff
the best metric is whichever one makes me look better
verbal frost
like is this good balance
at surface level
y / n
for raw damage
we can talk about rdps later just answer the question
clear plume
I was gold off patch ndps for bard so I actually am rank 1 in the world, I was even rank 1 in normal mode as well
remote gate
rapid whale
cdps true balance metric
verbal frost
I mean tbf
remote gate
which one helps me kill the boss faster
verbal frost
as soon as someone starts bringing up rdps for job balance
I realize they don't understand how it works
it's a parse metric that's really all it is
clear plume
Brother I can guarantee you we all know job balance better than the guy saying ninja is more flexible than monk
verbal frost
which one helps me kill the boss faster
adps
adps is total damage excluding single target buffs
it's the metric for which jobs are actually doing the most damage in a fight
remote gate
cool which job is top adps
remote gate
alright playing samurai
verbal frost
despite doing the same raw dps
this isn't even factoring in
dance partner btw
imagine how much worse it gets
rapid whale
yes cuz samurai is cool shwingshwingshwing
verbal frost
and why is ninja / picto doing more than reaper
despite having better raidbuffs
?
remote gate
and why is ninja / picto doing more than reaper
i get to make pretty effects and a big wave do big damage
jolly flume
the same reason mch has been dogshit for eight years, I don't get the point you're trying to make
remote gate
fuck wrong post
verbal frost
then when we go to a metric like cdps which factors in the raidbuffs the jobs give to others
mossy eagle
Reaper iz dumb
clear plume
This guys going to lose his mind when he learns that fflogs statistics always favour meta jobs over non meta ones because the 100th best samurai is way more competitive than the 50th best viper
Like nobody relevant is playing rpr
Nobody relevant is parsing on viper
torn mesa
sorry Azra
jolly flume
the 1 rpr parser I've ever met
verbal frost
so shouldn't jobs be more balanced
remote gate
dont think I've seen a reaper in pf recently too
clear plume
sorry Azra
I was in caros static I can confidently say it based on how much he complains about how he wishes the job had more competition
verbal frost
viper / black mage should do more raw damage than samurai
because they have worst bursts
worn bluff
RPR parsing is funny because it's the true definition of "or just crit harder"
clear plume
But instead he gets to do 2 weeks of pf and be 480 asp
rapid whale
But instead he gets to do 2 weeks of pf and be 480 asp
damn
remote gate
counter point: samurai should be top because i look cool playing it
verbal frost
I'm not asking for the burst to be buffed
I'm asking for my raw damage to be buffed
it doesn't have to be burst.
mossy eagle
Do you play week 1 savage?
clear plume
So what you’re not understanding is that fflogs data on the top end favours the jobs people are parsing on
Because that’s where the good players are
rapid whale
yea tldr the best players r playing meta jobs so the stats look diff
clear plume
It’s why off patch mch always looks better than main patch
verbal frost
it's still not good balance
rapid whale
yea
mossy eagle
Reaper absolutely clears in week 1
verbal frost
no
mossy eagle
It's free
verbal frost
I mean nobody cares about this stuff
worn bluff
I'm not asking for the burst to be buffed
eh i'd rather RPR actually have more potency in burst. as long as we're in a 2 min meta let RPR participate more. because it's more fun
torn mesa
balance can be better, but melee balance isn't even where you start that discussion
verbal frost
balance can be better, but melee balance isn't even where you start that discuss...
ye ik
it appies to every role
torn mesa
healer, caster, and ranged balance are all way worse
rapid whale
summoner parses matter
jolly flume
they cannot and will not make a check where your comp is the determining factor over the number of fingers you can put on your keyboard
verbal frost
why should black mage be lower cdps than bard
jolly flume
so why care
verbal frost
and this isn't even a parse pecentile
remote gate
why is this something youre so passionate about
jolly flume
im out here pressing 37 succors in m8s week 1 yo
and we're not enraging with 2 dps deaths in p1
verbal frost
I'm just asking for at least somewhat more fair balance
jolly flume
who cares
verbal frost
It doesn't feel fair right now
mossy eagle
Yeah that's pretty much my point. Your choice of job, with very few exceptions, does not determine whether you clear
clear plume
why is this something youre so passionate about
You know that bell curve meme where the middle cares way too much?
verbal frost
like if samurai has the stongest burst in the game
dreamy whale
I take it back picto is so cool
verbal frost
why shouldn't viper and black mage do more raw damage
mossy eagle
I don't mean to be a dick when I ask this, but do you play any other MMOs?
verbal frost
it doesn't really make sense to me
yes I understand samurai will therefore be worse
clear plume
Talking about no week 1 group is running rpr is peak that meme
rapid whale
I take it back picto is so cool
welcome to the club
verbal frost
in solo content
mossy eagle
I'm not going to defend SE to my dying grave because there's a lot to critique, but FFXIV balance is small potatoes compared to other games
rapid whale
if rpr was rank 1 dps would you still care abt the imbalance @verbal frost
verbal frost
yes
remote gate
is bc my melee got bored of it
realest reason ever
mossy eagle
GW2 once had a patch where exactly three specs (not jobs, specs), saw play
rapid whale
then you will be forever complaining idk the reasonable metric is too subjective
remote gate
I think all jobs should be reasonably balanced
preaching to the choir bro