technology-discussion

[dire viper]

yeah so Hyte's version isnt the oldest version of that case design, but it seems that it was some random cheapo case that looked similar, they just did a really good job with it

with the angled bit

plus there is basically no bulge on the back like that

[kind rune]

ayo

[sly elk]

the funny thing is the original o11 was also kinda chonky

I don't remember if I've ever seen a build on reddit with one of those

[sly elk]

yea I can't remember one with the notch like the hyte case has. Thermaltake makes one with a notch on the top

[dire viper]

I do

I really think it was probably some smaller case maker that died

[sly elk]

yea idk

[umbral moss]

There was caselabs, which folded after the aluminum tariff first landed

[dire viper]

caselabs might come back

[umbral moss]

At least, that was the official story, the unofficial one was that they mismanaged the company and were booking orders they had no way to fill for at least a year based on how fast they produced parts

[dire viper]

they're looking at making them in sweden

under new ownership

obviously

[umbral moss]

I still have a handful of caselabs parts waiting for the day I actually put metal to wood and make a case to install them in

[sly elk]

they always made it sound like they had no customers and nobody wanted their stuff X_X

but also

their shit was expensive. lemme guess, they did what evey other startup does and imported directly from china

instead of trying to source that shit from a us supplier

[umbral moss]

They took fucking forever to ship anything and it took almost eight months of me harassing them to finally get my parts

[sly elk]

I wonder for those real small kickstarter-ish startups, at what point is your operation so small that it costs you more to deal with a china supply chain

[umbral moss]

I bet most customers just canceled or charged back after the ship date failed to deliver

[sly elk]

plus the mountain of extra risk that your design ends up on aliexpress for a fraction of the cost

[umbral moss]

I think they were doing this because their margins were trash

[dire viper]

also dont buy MSi products unless its a GPU

literally the worst designed fucking monitor I have ever owned

[sly elk]

i'm fine with my msi x670e motherboard

ha actually, I DO have an msi monitor

sitting on my desk in our other house lol

[dire viper]

I cannot pull out my display port cable without completely pulling down my monitor

[umbral moss]

The picture I gathered was that they had like, two cnc machines stateside and they imported the aluminum to cut corners costs

[sly elk]

yea that

that sounds smart in the short run and fucking stupid in the long run

or at least, stupid in the short run

[umbral moss]

That's why thry went out of business lmao

Mismanaged into the ground

Like frozencpu

[sly elk]

somebody bought the remains though

hhaha

to be fair, selling pc parts is risky

[umbral moss]

Although apparently that was the founder going on a coke bender and destroying the warehouse lmaoooooo

[sly elk]

there's a high chance someone breaks a part and tries to claim it was defective

[sly elk]

LMAO

[dire viper]

Who designed this

[sly elk]

that's just like every dell monitor ever

[dire viper]

Literally have a fucking piece of plastic in front of the DP lock

[sly elk]

and it's why i'll probably stick with LG from now on

[umbral moss]

Reading the story of how frozencpu went under was the wildest ride this side of something awful lmao

[sly elk]

eh related

[umbral moss]

So much juice

[sly elk]

they always talk about how amazon killed frys, but what really killed frys was that one dude

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/frys-electronics-executive-accused-of-embezzling-65-million/

SAN FRANCISCO — A Ferrari-driving vice president of Fry’s Electronics who was allegedly such a heavyweight gambler that casinos chartered private planes to fly him to Las Vegas has been arrested on charges he embezzled more than $65 million from the retailer to fuel his lavish lifestyle and pay off debts.

[umbral moss]

Yeah, the founders are quick to blame competitors but the problem is always internal

[sly elk]

i don't think they blamed anyone in particular but I might be wrong

but for sure they had a bad mismanagement problem

[umbral moss]

Good companies don't magically lose several million dollars in inventory or fail to deliver backlog

[sly elk]

their online store was always a little janky

their order pick up process was infuriating

[glossy ravine]

Where do you see CPU temperature?? I can't find it

[modest moss]

I load it like this

then I get this view

[glossy ravine]

Uh. A pop up came

Item order is currently fixed, it needs to be unlocked. Etc

[modest moss]

make your choice

[glossy ravine]

Okay. Found the temps.

Currently installing games, so I have yet to see it under load, but what's within the normal temp range?

As it's installing XIV, it's sitting at 42-43c

[umbral moss]

It depends on what thermal probe you measured, where it's measuring, how much heat power you're consuming, the heat dissipation capacity of your cooling system, and the ambient temperature of the room

High end water loops can maintain a 7C delta over ambient, or better

But you're talking like 6x140 arrays and 13mm ID tubing everywhere

[prisma fog]

Paying final homage to hydaelyn before 7.0 moving away from her focus. starting my new pc build with a hydaelyn theme

[odd sand]

Nice. Doesn't even look THAT old: 9900K maybe?

Did you powder-coat the covers a different color?

[buoyant falcon]

Since upgrading to Windows 11, has anyone else noticed that certain features on certain website will just cause Chrome to freeze?

[odd sand]

I've only used Edge (which is chromium) and Firefox and haven't noticed anything. Try clearing cache and cookies?

What features on what website

[buoyant falcon]

Messenger's emoji menu is one thing I noticed that causes it to crash. Such a weird thing.

[odd sand]

Oh, that is a chromium bug yeah. I've had that happen in Discord starting like 2 months ago

Randomly open the emoji icon in Discord and instant CTD

I assume whatever you're talking about probably uses the same emoji base

Oddly enough, Teams doesn't and I think that also shares the same base or no?

[prisma fog]

13900k lol it’s z790

[odd sand]

Oh that's the new board?

[prisma fog]

Z790 Maximus hero

It’s cerakoted

[odd sand]

y u wastin $550 on a mobo

[prisma fog]

Why not

[odd sand]

Like the coating tho

Bc it's virtually the same board as the ones half that price heh

[prisma fog]

This one is easily moddable

You might be upset knowing I bought two lol

[odd sand]

[prisma fog]

Mobo cost isn’t even that high

Compared to the customization I need to do

[deep sapphire]

2 mobos?

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

man 4090 so efficient I was watching a 4K movie earlier and the fans were turned off

maybe all modern GPUs do that I dunno

[kind rune]

its a movie

[deep sapphire]

its a 4K movie on a HW accelerated browser

[kind rune]

4k media is doable on integrated graphics

[deep sapphire]

okay but

the fans were off

[kind rune]

big butt

[deep sapphire]

you fuckin

tennis ball emote

mother fucker

[kind rune]

uncalled for

[deep sapphire]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1134655955666227250.webp?size=160&quality=lossless

true

but im sticking with it

[kind rune]

this is true tho

[deep sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-conduciendo-gif-24377638

[dire viper]

my 3070 normally just goes up a single degree when watching anything

[deep sapphire]

my 1070 didnt have such technology

[dire viper]

1070 turning into a goddamn turbine

[deep sapphire]

true

[prisma fog]

so I can use one while work on the other for mods

Eventually I can sell the used one as used

[deep sapphire]

oh okay

[sly elk]

ye fuck that shit

I remember when the maximus hero was a $300something board

[odd sand]

Funny how those "covid shortages driving up prices" leveled off instead of going back down rite

I did manage to get myself a Z690 board for my 13900K for like $180 after a sale and rebate tho

[sly elk]

i'm not proud of how much i spent uh

440 for the x670e carbon motherboard, 449 for the 7800x3d

but I got what I wanted, so it's fine

I also think it was built every bit as well as the z390 maximus hero I had in there before, honestly maybe even better

it has more m.2 slots, a 7-segment screen in WHITE instead of red, and the top m2. slot is totally tool-less and the heatsink for it comes off by pushing a button

my only complaint is it doesn't have thunderbolt 4

[cerulean talon]

Hey, if it's what you want, it's worth every penny. 😄

[sly elk]

also the onboard audio is for some reason connected via usb

which I think is stupid

[cerulean talon]

My intel board is like that, and I /hate/ it .

[sly elk]

yea I agree lol

[cerulean talon]

Just steal a PCIe lane and use a proper chip.

[sly elk]

I think it's important to buy what you think will make you happiest 😄

[potent arrow]

so like are there repair manuals for the steamdeck

like schematics or anything?

lmfao a client asked me if I can look at one

[sly elk]

also I love the msi dragon logo on startup

[cerulean talon]

Not schematics, but general PC repair stuff.

[potent arrow]

and I'm like @_@

[sly elk]

I hate the asus rog eye now

[potent arrow]

water damage

[sly elk]

after seeing it every day for like 5 years

[cerulean talon]

Also, SARAH. I have something to show you. 😄

[potent arrow]

guess I'm doing it blind

oh no

[sly elk]

every day

[cerulean talon]

Welcome to the most MEME way to have 3 epycs in a stack.

[odd sand]

Except for anchoring the prices at bullshit levels, screwing everyone else over in the process

[potent arrow]

YOOO

[cerulean talon]

I've gotta repin some 12v supplies because these things want EPS connectors, not PCIe.

[odd sand]

They make ITX boards for EPYC?

[cerulean talon]

Yes.

Dual 10 gigs, huge connectivity, and glorious IPMI on a MITX board.

[odd sand]

Let me guess, they cost like $1499 for each board /s

[cerulean talon]

Nope, 650 normally, I got em for 330.

Processors were 150$ a pop.

32 cores each. 😄

[odd sand]

Legitimately shocked. Bc server boards is +price and then ITX is always +price. So I figured they would multiply to 4x the price /s

[cerulean talon]

Legitimately, cheaper to build an epyc than to build a new desktop rig at this rate.

[odd sand]

Oh, older EPYCs then is why?

[cerulean talon]

7002's, so 2 gens.

These boards will take 7003's, but the 9004's use a new socket.

[sly elk]

i like it

[manic lintel]

I don't know what's going on, but it looks Expensive.

[cerulean talon]

Unironically, that stack is cheaper than some GPU's.

Which is a terrifying thought.

And I hate that just popped into my head.

[sly elk]

and you wonder why I go on rants about the price of the 4090

[cerulean talon]

I do however, think I ran newegg out of these mobo's. 😄

Hilariously, this thing's got almost all it's PCIe lanes available too, which just makes it absolute comedy.

Asrockrack makes some absolutely wild gear.

[sly elk]

i like them even though I have never owned an asrock board

[prisma fog]

man you guys care too much about price to performance

aesthetics is where it's at

[sly elk]

yea but here's the thing

[cerulean talon]

If you saw my living room, you'd understand.

[sly elk]

$249

and I believe i've seen this go as low as $199

[prisma fog]

ya coz that's fucking ugly

[sly elk]

and it has the fucking sickest screen printing

[odd sand]

The sonic mATX is on sale on Newegg for like $89 atm

[sly elk]

asrock does a special edition board and CHARGES NORMAL PRICES

unlike asus that charges $$$$$ and then sells out instantly

[cerulean talon]

Also, who cares about asthetics, computers are machines to be used.

[sly elk]

(except for the gundam z590 because z590 was crap)

all this said I'm kinda walking the fence here lmao

[cerulean talon]

Not like I'm 15 again and it's lan-party time where you want wild af rigs (Though i do, legitimately, miss those days.)

[sly elk]

because I don't disagree with love for bling bling

[prisma fog]

Checkout my custom cnc’ed azem pump cover

[sly elk]

OR buying what you want

[prisma fog]

That’s peak technology

I do need to process the surface and color it

[sly elk]

I just grew to really dislike asus

[cerulean talon]

Here, have some peak technology. 😛

[prisma fog]

no

that's peak ugly

[manic lintel]

I always wanted to buy one of those big metal spy briefcases and build a PC in one just for taking to lan parties

[sly elk]

shit it looks a lot more organized than before

[cerulean talon]

It's even better than that right now, 2 more computers got retired off the top.

[prisma fog]

not bad choice for 3d printer though

x1c is cool

[sly elk]

https://tenor.com/view/thumbs-thumbs-up-kid-thumbs-up-meme-brent-ramobjust-gif-19399510

[cerulean talon]

Yeh, I like the X1C quite a bit.

[sly elk]

plus I can see your table top

[cerulean talon]

There's alot of random stuff I wanted to jam a PC in back then to lan party, then I got old. 😄

[sly elk]

like wtf I I CAN SEE CODINGWAY'S TABLETOP

[manic lintel]

ngl
my only concern in this image is the pet carriers in the back

[sly elk]

i thought it was supposed to be covered in stray cables

[cerulean talon]

They're only used when the cats need to go to the vet, we just don't have anywhere better to store em.

[sly elk]

glorious bare tabletop

[cerulean talon]

😄 The workbench is currently covered in the new NAS while I wait for some more cables to come in.

[manic lintel]

no
no no no
see
the concern isn't that they exist or are stored there
it's the idea that you have Small Pets that can get in to all those wires

[potent arrow]

Yeah my desk is getting there lol

[cerulean talon]

Then a new motherboard for my build server this week, and that should finally wrap up most of my builds for the end of the year.

[potent arrow]

send help codingway

[sly elk]

btw I do think your custom motherboard is cool af lol

[prisma fog]

it take me a year and half to do my builds

[cerulean talon]

Oh, they don't bother coming up on the desk, they get to camp out on the laser cutter and look outside instead.

[potent arrow]

ISP also approved my private IP request too

[prisma fog]

thanks

the entire build will be way cooler

[cerulean talon]

The only help is MORE HARDWARE.

[sly elk]

ok xD

[prisma fog]

a water cooled build with no tubes at all

[potent arrow]

BWAJKSDkasd

[sly elk]

I don't have any bespoke hardware

[modest moss]

based

[sly elk]

but my case is weird ^_^

[cerulean talon]

Okay, that is cool af. 😄

[potent arrow]

Did you see my new monitor impala

[cerulean talon]

Granted, I only want it so I can pump more wattage into boards.

[prisma fog]

if i want hardware i just use cloud

[cerulean talon]

Neg, send pics.

[prisma fog]

if i want hardware in my house it better be cool

[cerulean talon]

I'm not willing to pay what any cloud vendor wants for hundreds of cores and a tb and a half of ram.

[prisma fog]

i don't have to pay for cloud

[potent arrow]

This is the dumbest set up choice ive ever done in my life

[cerulean talon]

I wish that was the case for me, I'd be way happier with it. 😛

[cerulean talon]

Yeah, but purple. So it's worth.

[potent arrow]

Its very worth

[prisma fog]

there's hardly any usecase that would utilize that many cores anyways

[potent arrow]

selling server space to my clients : P

[cerulean talon]

Building highly threaded software for cryptomining pools.

[potent arrow]

Im also converting all machines in my parents house to thin clients lol

well, continuing the process

Need more nuccs now that they are all on clearance

[cerulean talon]

I'm seriously considering it, now that jetbrains remote tool can target a self-hosted development instance.

[potent arrow]

[modest moss]

Sarah just be sitting there gaming and huffing that wd40

[potent arrow]

Yeah

it tastes bad

[modest moss]

WHY DO YOU KNOW

[cerulean talon]

Why don't you?

[potent arrow]

Ive consumed more wd40 then Id admit

[cerulean talon]

WD40 aersolizes easily in general tbh.

[modest moss]

you two are unhinged

[cerulean talon]

I mean, yes, but no.

[modest moss]

yes but yes

[potent arrow]

I was using it to spray off the corrosion on my board with it lol

it worked suprisingly well

[cerulean talon]

I'm a perfectly rational sysadmin with a love of hardware.

And hobbies, particularly dangerous/fun ones.

[potent arrow]

X_X

[sly elk]

cute wallpaper

[potent arrow]

Im doomed

[cerulean talon]

I did finally get rid of my bottles of sulfuric acid tho.

Had to start getting rid of the hard to get rid of stuff to try and move in the next year or two.

[sly elk]

butterfly haori

sarah do you have one?

[potent arrow]

I have two

I made them myself : P

[cerulean talon]

What you see before you, is not doom, it is merely the future personification of joy!

[sly elk]

so cool!

[potent arrow]

because im small

I wear it often enough

[sly elk]

but why do you have a can of wd40 at your desk

[potent arrow]

To spray off the corrosion on my motherboard lol

[cerulean talon]

Deoxit is the usual choice here, but WD40 does well

[potent arrow]

Im out

[cerulean talon]

It also helps that there's no water here to corrode anything.

[potent arrow]

I was repairing an old commodore and I needed deoxit to clean every single socket

so I used the last bit on that

I also use deoxit on laptops :P

[cerulean talon]

That's a very valid usecase. I approve of your current outage and pray for the return of the deoxit.

[potent arrow]

Deoxit and evaporust will be here on monday

[sly elk]

i wonder what deoxit is

ahh

[cerulean talon]

That reminds me, I need to swap in a new gallon jug of iso.

The last one ran out cleaning the 3d printer. 😄

[potent arrow]

I think its a type of isobutane

[potent arrow]

I buy big boy barrels and divide them up

[cerulean talon]

If I had room for a drum of it, I would.

[potent arrow]

I dont

thats why I divide them into mason jars

I have 3D printed lids for it that make them spouts

[cerulean talon]

What size barrels are you getting? o.o

[manic lintel]

how big should you go on a PSU
conversely, how small can you get away with for a build running an i7-13700k and 30-series GPU?

[cerulean talon]

I guess I could get like a 5 gallon pail, but the 1 gallons are about as easy at that point.

[potent arrow]

I have the exact link one sec

https://www.uline.ca/Product/Detail/S-23082/First-Aid/99-Isopropyl-Alcohol-205-L-Drum?

[cerulean talon]

Depends, you'd need to know the GPU more than anything else as it's the biggest sucker of energy in a modern build.

[potent arrow]

Buy that every other year basically : P

[modest moss]

I have a 12700k and 3070ti and it's comfy with an 850w

[cerulean talon]

Yeah, standard 55 gallon drum. It's what I'd go for if I had somewhere to receive it.

[potent arrow]

[modest moss]

but check some calculators

[potent arrow]

I dump it at my dads work

[cerulean talon]

850's will run most 4k series cards fine.

They're usually what I put in every rig.

[kind rune]

i have a 750w psu with a 3080 and 11700k

[cerulean talon]

Next house is gonna have a loading dock, I swear.

[potent arrow]

I wish

[manic lintel]

I ask mainly because I was looking back over my pcp list
and us$380 for a PSU feels like overkill

[cold yacht]

I know a guy who use to live on the docks

Just him and his cat and his boat house

[cerulean talon]

That's massively overpriced for that PSU, IIRC the 850's specifically are out of stock from corsair as I was looking at them the other day

850's are usually 150 or less.

[kind rune]

you could save atleast 200 dollars by just going for 80+ gold instead of platinum

[modest moss]

yeah that's way overpriced

[cerulean talon]

Yeah, the HX850 is nominally, 184 on Newegg, was down to 130 for cybermonday, but they're out at the moment.

Someone's just spiking the amazon price.

[modest moss]

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/4ZRwrH/corsair-rm850e-2023-850-w-80-gold-certified-fully-modular-atx-power-supply-cp-9020263-na

$119 on newegg

that'll be more than enough

[cerulean talon]

^

[potent arrow]

lmfao I drunkingly honed the civic block the other day

seems like I did a good job

[cerulean talon]

\o/

[modest moss]

well, which 30-series gpu, @manic lintel

[potent arrow]

Time to redo the valves -_-

becuase I dont have a valve tool, I think I need to fab one

[cerulean talon]

See, you're my spirit animal building hardware, I'm your spirit animal for tech. 😄

This only ends excellently for /both/ of us.

[potent arrow]

: D

Man I tried filming my magnetron experiemnt

but it cooked the cheapo digital camera I had

[cerulean talon]

Can't imagine why.

[potent arrow]

I think the microwaves refracted off some aluminum and killed it LOL

[modest moss]

if it's a 3090 or 3090ti I'd check calcs, but anything below that it's easily fine

[potent arrow]

those magnetrons are so sensitive to current

[sly elk]

ah here's my corner of the living room

[manic lintel]

looking at GIGABYTE - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 12GB for a GPU
and it turns out that same PSU is currently us$130 at my nearest Best Buy, so they should price match newegg

[potent arrow]

so cozy

[cerulean talon]

Well assembled.

[kind rune]

u dont need any more than 650w for that

[modest moss]

oh yeah that's more than enough for a 3060 build

you'd be able to upgrade gpu later

[potent arrow]

impala is zwave still the best for home auto?

[cerulean talon]

Yeah, 850 would be more than fine.

[sly elk]

i like zwave

what do you want to do with it?

[cerulean talon]

Tbh, I don't use much home auto, I'm playing with Zigbee and Zwave, I got a unifed multi-protocol receiver and I'm super happy with it atm.

But I'm just monitoring a ton of humidity/temp sensors.

[manic lintel]

honestly, if Codingway hadn't have said anything
I wouldn't have remembered that ASRock mobos existed
so I'm going back over my PCP Wishlist to see where I can cut back
and aside from the CPU and GPU, the PSU is the next most expensive thing on there

[potent arrow]

hmm ok

[cerulean talon]

Our RF environment is not kind to any wireless protocol.

[sly elk]

you don't have to cut back on stuff unless you need to for some reason

or want to

[potent arrow]

MQTT kills me

[sly elk]

like I feel I can afford whatever mobo I want to have lol

if that means spending $700 for one with fancy heatsinks, sure

[modest moss]

cutting back from a $360 psu to a $120 psu is 100000000% the right choice

link your pcpartpicker andros

[manic lintel]

I honestly don't do much on my pc
this i5-6500 has lasted me about 8 years or so
it's time for an upgrade
and I want something new enough to last another 5+ yerars, hence going for the i7-13700k and a 3060

[potent arrow]

ergh

[modest moss]

real talk 3060 may not last 5 years

[potent arrow]

I would get a better gpu

3060 is lasting another two at most

I have a 3060ti and even that is growing long in the tooth

[modest moss]

that's a tank of a cpu though

[potent arrow]

maybe like a 3080/3090

[manic lintel]

one sec, shue
looking back over the RAM since the asrock mobo I chose only goes up to 5800MHz and my initial choice was 6400

[potent arrow]

but its the price that you need to look at

[modest moss]

take that $200+ you just saved from the PSU and throw it at the GPU instead

[cerulean talon]

You rarely clock ram this high in general.

Super high RAM clocks are touchy to say the least, though DDR5's getting to the point that it's mostly stable at rated XMP, most of the time.

[potent arrow]

For a five year pick for cpu i would def fo for a 5800x3D or even a 7800x3D

I feel like those will outlast the existence of god at this point in time lmfao

[cerulean talon]

I'd do a 7xxx CPU in general as you're likely to get 1-2 upgrades in the same socket on the same mobo after AMD's last rounds.

[potent arrow]

yep

7800x3D would be my choice

[sly elk]

idk what psu pricing is like atm but for >$100 I'd hope for an rm850x

[modest moss]

afaik that's just the newer version, 2023 vs 2021

they're the same price ish

[sly elk]

they are different beyond that lol

the x has a maglev fan, the e has a normal fan

[potent arrow]

does 2021 have high power?

[sly elk]

no 😄

[potent arrow]

or have to use stinky cable

[sly elk]

that would be a good reason to buy an e

[potent arrow]

yeah that alone i would consider if you are using a newer gpu

[cerulean talon]

3060 doesn't use the hpwr.

[potent arrow]

well

I was assuming they wouldnt go for a 3060

idk why you buy a 3060 at this point tbh

[cerulean talon]

Tbh, corsair offers a 3xPCIe to hpwr for their older PSU's, and they're available aftermarket, not as nice as a native jack on the PSU, but a reasonable compromise imo.

[potent arrow]

Seems like a weird pairing with that cpu too

[cerulean talon]

4xxx's are still stupid expensive. 😛

I wince every time I look at em.

[potent arrow]

Fair

[sly elk]

corsair doesn't have a native jack on the psu?

[potent arrow]

but a 5 year pc is not gonna be cheap

[sly elk]

at least iirc

[modest moss]

something like https://pcpartpicker.com/list/d6wBh3 but I feel dirty putting amd in it

[sly elk]

like if you look at the rm850e

[cerulean talon]

IIRC their newest ones do.

[sly elk]

it has the same pcie plugs

[potent arrow]

shue is an amd hater >_>

[manic lintel]

here's what I got down so far
I'll be re-using my current case, fans (5000D Airflow), and drives
I can probably knock down the noctua, but I'm not entirely sure what to look at for air-cooling since most people discuss AIOs and full watercooling lately

[sly elk]

850x vs 850e connectors

[modest moss]

people love that peerless assassin apparently

[potent arrow]

they are good yeah

[modest moss]

nearly as good as the noctua but much cheaper

[sly elk]

yea if you're trying to stick to a budget you could save $50 on the heatsink

question: you already have the 3060?

[potent arrow]

I really think you are making a mistake with the 3060 if you are buying it new

[sly elk]

same

[potent arrow]

that I would change fo sho

[sly elk]

either get a better nvidia card or consider some amd cards

[modest moss]

how much are you paying for the 3060

[manic lintel]

isn't that assassin ThermalTake?
weren't there long-standing issues across their entire product range?

[sly elk]

(sorry shue and hank)

[potent arrow]

The new assasin line up is really nice now

I have had no issues with them, and ive benchmarked/sold a lot of them

[manic lintel]

as far as the 3060 goes, I initially chose it because I could drive down to bestbuy and pick it up
it's not a "must have" GPU for me

[modest moss]

nah if you're pushing the budget hard I'd say amd is worth looking at

we get a lot less OMFG XIV won't run on my amd gpu now

[potent arrow]

they are thermal right

not thermal take

[sly elk]

thermalright is amazing

[dire viper]

ThermalTake coolers are alright

[potent arrow]

yep

[sly elk]

i like their fans lmao

[dire viper]

dont buy their cases

[potent arrow]

deepcool has good stuff for cooling

[manic lintel]

gotcha
I try not to buy in to hype, but when there's a lot of loud voices talking down something, it makes me leery

[dire viper]

it took them 10 years to stop berating reviewers for giving their cases bad reviews and they started making some good ones

lmao

[potent arrow]

I only recomend stuff I have had personal experience with

I ran a lot of tests with the business I own, so i do have somewhat of a feel where shit is gawful

[sly elk]

https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-TL-C12CW-S-X3-Computer-Quantities）/dp/B0BKJWMQLW for $15 you get 3 actually decent rgb fans 😄

[cerulean talon]

Death to RGB!

[potent arrow]

lmfao

all hail generic delta fans for servers!

[sly elk]

hail generic delta fans!

man what ever happened to sunon and panaflo

[sly elk]

https://tenor.com/view/magi-hi-sinad-eye-twitching-helo-gif-10173189

[potent arrow]

duno

[cerulean talon]

Embrace the cold, sweet death of darkness and fully blacked out rigs. nods

[potent arrow]

oooooooooo theres an amiga 3000 on facebook marketplace for 10$

[cerulean talon]

I will pay extra to remove RGB.

[potent arrow]

time to buy it

[sly elk]

rawr

[sly elk]

you don't have to have rgb lol

this is one thing that bugs me when people whine about rgb being the only choice

the only place I think that's a thing is gpus

[cerulean talon]

Yeah, but most of the high end gear is drenched in it.

[sly elk]

high end ram is usually available without it

high end motherboards, like ACTUAL high end motherboards, don't even have rgb as an option lol

come on bro let's look at some $2500 tyan dual socket babies

[cerulean talon]

I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna do workstation builds forr awhile.

[sly elk]

you're lucky if you get those with a black pcb

[cerulean talon]

You can get dual socket supermicro workstations for < 600

.>

[potent arrow]

oohhh

[sly elk]

heheh

[cerulean talon]

I've been considering it.

[sly elk]

but seriously the only rgb on my msi board is the dragon

[potent arrow]

do you think its worth me buying 1 sku of each new threadripper?

[sly elk]

that can be turned off, but I don't want to

I like my rgb

[potent arrow]

Idk if I can flip it, but I REALLY want to benchmark them

[cerulean talon]

Nah, all the important benchmarks I need are on xmrig's site.

The 9004 epycs are wild. 😄

[potent arrow]

But I want my owwwwn data >_>

[cerulean talon]

I can't afford 9004 epycs, or I'd get them >.>

[potent arrow]

Im so tempted to buy them and sell them to local business for discount and get some of my money back

[manic lintel]

there we go
that now leaves a lot more room to play with getting the gpu and maybe better m.2 drives

[modest moss]

you can get an RX 6800 for $399 at bestbuy, that's only 100 more than the 3060 and much better

[cerulean talon]

It's heresy for some people, but I really suggest getting a boring ole SSD and slapping windows on that, saving every bit of your NVMe for gaming >.>

[potent arrow]

im in the same camp man

you dont need an nvme for OS

hot take

[cerulean talon]

Truth imo.

[manic lintel]

well
this is my current OS drive
which I was just going to transfer over

[potent arrow]

western digital

https://tenor.com/view/guy-stand-gif-14880221

[modest moss]

shit, 7800 XT is only $500ish

[cerulean talon]

I like WD's, but M.2 sata's aren't M.2 NVMes. You'll want to check to make sure you mobo supports a M.2 Sata

[potent arrow]

should

most boards do dont they

[cerulean talon]

Most /should/, but it's not a guarentee.

M.2 satas have been falling to the wayside.

[potent arrow]

Im so glad I built my own database/repetoire of boards

I dont ever have to double check

[sly elk]

iirc the 3060 not-ti is a dog of a gpu

[potent arrow]

its bad

[sly elk]

i think even a 7600xt can beat it

[potent arrow]

it was ok then and its not great now

It was basically the forgotten gpu of the gen

[sly elk]

now a 3060ti, those are pretty ok

[potent arrow]

They more then ok, I sold so many lmfao

[sly elk]

but yea if you're looking at a 3060, you can get a 7600xt for less probably

[potent arrow]

3060ti and 3080/ti are the most sold gpus of that generation for me

er

3060ti

lmfao

most of my tuition is probally paid by the 3060tis

[cerulean talon]

Glorious. 😄

[manic lintel]

well
just doublechecked the official product page and downloaded the mobo manual
that particular mobo has 3 M.2 slots, one of which is specifically labled for SATA3 6.0 Gb/s
which is what my WD m.2 actually is
so that leaves 2 M.2 slots open for Other Things

[cerulean talon]

Sounds excellent. 😄

[manic lintel]

nah
just lucky
🤣

[cerulean talon]

xD

[manic lintel]

there's a reason why I tend to say that "I know just enough to get myself in to trouble"

at least with figuring it out now, I can look at getting a better drive for games
now, I'm just not sure if one of these qualifies as "NVMe"

[modest moss]

yes

[cerulean talon]

Yeah, PCIe M.2's are NVMe's.

[modest moss]

those are the good shiz

[cerulean talon]

Gen 5's are hilarous, but nearly impossible to saturate.

[manic lintel]

gotcha gotcha
sounds like I got a plan

now to finish getting the funds together
not entirely sure I want to try and wait for tax time

[potent arrow]

@cerulean talon

[cerulean talon]

This needs a robot that physically swaps NVMe's.

Like an OG tape library, but for NVMe's.

[potent arrow]

oh hell yeah

[cerulean talon]

Also, I now think I know a mechnical project I need to make.

You in?

[sly elk]

lol

[cerulean talon]

Whaaa? You don't want a NVMe Library?

[sly elk]

ya know how the xbox basically has nvme cartridges

i'm disappointed this isn't a thing with laptops and desktops

[cerulean talon]

Hah.

I'm having a huge giggle at the thought of a card-sorting type machine handling NVMe's.

[sly elk]

like how can any laptop with only 1 (OR NO) nvme slot call itself a "pro" laptop

especially the stupid ones with soldered on nand

fuck that shit

[manic lintel]

I'm thinking more about one of those cat coin banks
where you push a switch, and a cat sticks its paw out to drag in the quarter or whatever
only in this case
you hit the switch for the paw to pull a string that physically swaps the drives out

go full Rube Goldberg machine with it

[cerulean talon]

Yeeeeeees.

This is not a bad idea at all. This idea is perfection incarnate.

[sly elk]

what I used to want was the ability to swap host vm and client vm on the fly

[manic lintel]

and you have enough 3d printers there to make the parts

[sly elk]

hmmm

[cerulean talon]

Legitimately, the only thing keeping me from grabbing a macbook air for my portable laptop is how bad my MBP from work is at auctually doing anywhing.

[sly elk]

mmm

[cerulean talon]

And how quickly I'm trashing the perma-soldered-on drives.

[sly elk]

sadness

I like my macbooks, I really do

I just hate the soldered on nand

and now the ludicrous soldered on ram

[cerulean talon]

We're running crowdstrike, so ti's kinda expected that I'm gonna have issues.

[sly elk]

if apple made a car I imagine they'd seal the gas tank and you';d need to buy a new gas tank every time you ran out

ah that reminds me

[manic lintel]

nah
proprietary shaped gas cap and filler neck
with the filler neck having a Known Design Flaw that they'll fix "eventually"
in the mean time, it'll crack on occasion and you have to take to one of their specific shops to be replaced
and if you try to do it yourself or take it to another shop, they remote shut down your car for "violating the warranty"

[cerulean talon]

Soon, Talia will be back online though, and I'll be trying out coder for my remote dev env.

I'm hoping it goes well, it looks like it should.

Then I can auctually consider downsizing a few more rigs down here.

I do eventually want to see if I can get an /auctual/ arm server, but they're still stupid expensive.

[manic lintel]

...I was going to log in to ffxiv
but all this computer talk has distracted me from what I planned to do in-game tonight
😕

[odd sand]

He's kinda right actually. I'm looking thru it and its hard to find them without any RGB unless yo ugo with offbrands.

Like this is the most conservative of the higher end stuff I can find: https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb/p/N82E16820982070?Item=N82E16820982070

Or you could step down to Kingston, but its worse latency as well then https://www.newegg.com/kingston-32gb/p/N82E16820242810?Item=N82E16820242810

Suppose there is this, but its "only" 7200 https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb/p/N82E16820236932?Item=N82E16820236932

Other option is to simply use the utility to turn off the RGB on the ram

[lost python]

https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/29/elon-musk-apple-disney-advertising-commment/

its almost like he is obsessed with burning it down

tl;dr: he said not advertising is blackmailing and they should go fuck themselves

[odd sand]

Entitlement Baby speedrun

Reminds me of the Total War CS staff talking about the forum being a privilege and customers being like our money is a privilege

[sharp star]

masterful gambit, sir

[umbral moss]

To be fair, he doesn't make money off Twitter so from his insane elonocentric view of the universe, advertisers threatening to withdraw money over his reprehensible opinions and actions is on the same level as telling him he can't date 17 year olds anymore

He has enough money personally that he doesn't consider that advertising is how Twitter makes money

[umbral moss]

Doesn't corsair make stealth sticks for dominator and vengeance lines?

And I think g. Skill also does stealth sticks

[stuck snow]

I have a question could I use the steam deck for ffxiv or is it not powerful enough at all ?

[modest moss]

you sure can

!faq steamdeck

[opal panther]

Steam Deck Guide and Support

For a guide on how to use XIVLauncher with Steam Deck, please see https://goatcorp.github.io/faq/steamdeck

For further advice there is a Linux/Steam Deck channel on the goatcorp Discord

https://discord.com/invite/yp6jB2FvpR

[modest moss]

don't have one personally but lots of people do use it

heck, Gabe Newell the Steam founder uses it to play XIV with his kid

[stuck snow]

😱 yes thank you !! I didn’t think it would be able too I’m excited now I can finally take it to my nans when I visit !! ☺️

[modest moss]

I'm not 100% on how it'll be with the updated specs for Dawntrail though, I'd talk to the people in the other discord if you're thinking of buying one specifically for XIV

but if you already have one, heck yeah go for it

[stuck snow]

I do have one I just didn’t want to waste my time downloading it and it running really bad you made my day thank you !!

[modest moss]

you're welcome, have fun!

[glossy ravine]

I want Valve to make an AIO Headset that isn't Valve Index Expensive so I can get rid of my Quest 2

[golden stream]

Eh you're should be gud w Dawntrail on Deck, just don't expect the squeaky shiniest setting
My current setting w relatively good battery game session: hard lock 45fps (deck side), CPU 9w (lower will hit perf) GPU not rmb but should be fine, custom low laptop in-game setting.
Actually it runs better than my rig

[odd sand]

Possibly. I guess they aren't on Newegg then for some reason

[odd sand]

During Stormblood I was managing to play it on the igpu of a core i3 from 2012, but it was like 720p 30fps heh

[sharp star]

I think a current i3 should still be fine

[modest moss]

I expect even in DT it'll still run okay on stuff below the min reqs if people will compromise on res/settings

[odd sand]

Yeah. I was at my parents and that's the skype box I had built them so I made do lol

[bitter veldt]

anyone here well-versed in Gaming Laptops?

[lost python]

just ask away

[bitter veldt]

eh, I just did?

[lost python]

... just ask what you want to ask about gaming laptops

[bitter veldt]

ah right

well long story short, my dad offered to help me out in buying a new system for college and whatnot, the problem is that he specified that it needs to be a Laptop so I want to get a gaming one, but I have no idea what specs I should look for or what perfomance I'd be getting while playing games like XIV or GI etc.

[potent arrow]

GI?

[bitter veldt]

Genshin Impact

[potent arrow]

ah

those two games are relatively light

but for gaming laptops I've also pointed towards legion laptops

see if you can find like

a legion slim 7

erg, amd model

should have a 4060 in it

[bitter veldt]

yeah it does

though the price's a bit overblown...

[lost python]

welcome to gaming laptops, unfortunately

[potent arrow]

gaming laptops are not cheap >_>

[lost python]

why does he insist on it having to be a laptop though?

[bitter veldt]

yeah I dunno what I was expecting tbh

[potent arrow]

I think the slim is actually reasonably priced in the realm of laptops, at least in Canada

[bitter veldt]

well I guess because that's what parents think it's better, again I'm gonna be needing it in College so y'know, the portability certainly helps

[potent arrow]

without going into my usual spiel about gaming laptops, prepare for like

a chunky boi experience, weird thermals and overpriced price to specs lol

[bitter veldt]

damn...

well it's a path I must trace

because I ain't getting other chance at this

[potent arrow]

legion

is what I would dig into

I'm not fully updated on this year's offering, but I've always bought those for clients

and it's something I would choose personally

they tend to be slimmer, somewhat alright thermals and reasonably priced

[bitter veldt]

you can still change the SDD in Gaming Laptops right?

[potent arrow]

on most of them yeah

[bitter veldt]

what about RAM?

[potent arrow]

same answer

[bitter veldt]

alright then

[potent arrow]

some laptops have soldered ram/storage

the slimmer they are, the more likely to be soldered

[bitter veldt]

okey good to keep in mind

you mind if I send you DM @potent arrow

[potent arrow]

go for it

[umbral moss]

I'm pretty sure you can get gskill stealth sticks in newegg, not sure what speed you were looking at

[sly elk]

regarding the not-rgb ram, I wasn't looking at ddr5-7800, so I wasn't aware they don't sell that rgb-less

[hollow hamlet]

So after consulting with my 3060, I decided that since it is also a plastic backplate by MSI... that a 4070 by msi with a plastic backplate wouldn't be a bad purchase. So I grabbed it.

Time to really test this bad boys power with hello kitty online

[sly elk]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-kitty-gif-13555966181136281265

[wise jay]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-kitty-gundam-unbothered-fight-fighting-gif-7149504878892474951

[hollow hamlet]

I'm confident this one will last longer than a month. RIP my 3080ti

[umbral moss]

I don't know why you'd even waste money on 7800 sticks this year

Nothing is mature enough to use it even if you go to suicide volts

[sly elk]

yea I didn't even know the ram went that high lmao

[umbral moss]

You need like 1.9vdimm and the cpu will probably still refuse to post without backing it down

[sly elk]

i'm using ddr5-6000 myself and I've heard of people having issues driving 2 sticks at 6000, nevermind 7800

[umbral moss]

Yeah

[sly elk]

(after a firmware update a month or two ago, my machine started working fine with 4 sticks at 6000 though!)

[umbral moss]

I don't know who's using these things besides the engineers at the motherboard companies

[sly elk]

but using oc ddr5 memory on a ryzen atm is annoying

it takes a long ass time to boot

[umbral moss]

Ddr5 support is barely "support"

Posts and that's about it

[sly elk]

since the memory controller is on the cpu, does it even matter what the mobo does?

[umbral moss]

Kinda, trace impedence can make a difference

[sly elk]

mobo makers: YOU HAD ONE JOB lol

[umbral moss]

You need to make sure there isn't some weird vdroop effect when you crank up the frequency

That's why the qvl usually only goes to like 5800 for 2 dimm

Beyond that you're in the wilderness of the quality of that particular board being able to handle the capacitance of higher frequency

[sly elk]

also can you imagine spending all that money

and dealing with instability

.... for a fucking 1800mhz clock difference

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/overclocker-takes-ddr5-to-9058-mhz-on-ryzen-7000-with-latest-firmware

ITS OVER 9000 😮

[proven oyster]

Idle tech wonder

Can multi gamin be an issue

Like having many games open at once, minimizing one or another in resource use

[modest moss]

I mean, resources are finite

[proven oyster]

Semi related

How does RAM usage work

Like Windows uses its own RAM, games uses some memory for their stuff, but how does it... Unload?

[real edge]

wdym

ram usage is finnicky, things use whatever they want essentially

[sly elk]

the OS manages the memory for the software you're running. (if you have an OS).

[real edge]

limited by how much you have

[proven oyster]

I basically worry on capping out

And not sure if thats just

Not something at all i should think

[sly elk]

there's a fair amount of detail to it, and it varies depending on the programming language

[real edge]

16 is good enough and will be for quite a while

[cerulean talon]

More so on the kernel and how much it likes to lie. 😄

[proven oyster]

I worry for this number to hit 90-95%+

[sly elk]

^ ehhhh

[cerulean talon]

It won't, windows will do work to make sure it doesn't.

[sly elk]

yea

[cerulean talon]

Up to, and including killing naughty software eating up all your ram.

[sly elk]

a lot of that is cached data that can be knocked out if something needs the memory

[cerulean talon]

Nah, that view is active memory

They keep cached on the other page.

But it's not showing how much is swapped in/out.

[real edge]

there have been cases for me when over 90% was used but things ended up running fine for the most part

[cerulean talon]

Yeah, it really comes down to what you're doing to cause it to go over 90 at that point too.

[real edge]

there was a game that needed quite a bit of ram

[minor hollow]

you can keep your RAM usage low by not having 50 things open at once

[cerulean talon]

:looks at browser: :slowly closes windows:

[real edge]

and uhh...installing repacks

that eats up ram for me

[sly elk]

-gets out an m1 mac mini with 8gb ram-

-opens farts.com in chrome- -the 8gb hath been wasted-

[cerulean talon]

The correct answer is to download more ram. nods

[minor hollow]

RAM is essentially the short term memory of your computer

[proven oyster]

So all n all

Dont think of it

Be thoughtless

[real edge]

yeah

[minor hollow]

you'll know when you don't have enough RAM because stuff will slow down

[sly elk]

so what you do is make the cpu <-> memory <-> ssd pipeline REALLY REALLY FAST and then you burn the fuck out of your nand chip 😄 paging out like crazy

[proven oyster]

i know with FFXIV

And i still have
Not a clue how i did that

[sly elk]

but that's fine because when it fails your m1 mac will be about 2.5 years old, time to ewaste it

jkjk

[real edge]

do you people think 64gigs of ram will ever be required for gaming and stuff for the next 5-6 years or so?

[proven oyster]

I had a memory leak after doing all the Variant dungeons of Aloalo

[cerulean talon]

This is a silly question, I can already using 100+ gb gaming.

[proven oyster]

Not sure if FFXIV or Crimes

[sly elk]

there's probably already some monstrosity being cooked up by EA or ubisoft or bethseda or microsoft that does lol

[cerulean talon]

Ramdisks are ❤️

That being said, for normal gaming, hell no.

[proven oyster]

And all this solely

[minor hollow]

western gamedev gonna hit 1tb game file size soon

[proven oyster]

Cus i wanna play Warframe, with FFXIV on the side

[minor hollow]

gonna need more ram to handle that

[cerulean talon]

Hilarously, windows explorer is currently my largest single-process RAM consumer.

I don't know how to feel about that.

[real edge]

I think theres an outlier there....

[sly walrus]

ye, windows explorer

[sly walrus]

you need to delete system32

[cerulean talon]

Why explorer's using 3Gb actively, I have no f'in idea.

Why spotify wants 8Gb , I /really/ have no idea.

[real edge]

spotify using more ram than games

somehow

[cerulean talon]

For real tho.

[sly walrus]

needs a lot of memory so you can listen to
checks notes
that new 3 stacks flute album

[cerulean talon]

I mean, if it wants to store multiple redundant copies of pop/stars, I'm not gonna argue.

But damn, 8Gb is alot of music.

[sly elk]

speaking of memory management

@cerulean talon how about what happens if you make a bunch of VMs in ESXI and then you assign them 256gb ram on a server that only has like 64gb

https://tenor.com/view/el-risitas-juan-joya-borja-ratones-coloraos-laugh-meme-laughing-man-gif-24899295

i'll give them 100 vcpus from my little 8 core cpu while I'm at it too

[cerulean talon]

Esxi thin-provisions your RAM.

So until they start consuming it's not a problem.

😄

[sly elk]

i alwasy wondered how it decided when a vm deserved more ram

[sly elk]

no it's all used up

so it plays russian roulette with the VMs

[cerulean talon]

Nah, that's the thing, you can overprovision all day, until the VM /auctually/ starts to use ram, it won't allocate it from phys-mem.

[sly elk]

nono i'm saying

the vms are all using all the ram 😄

that's when it starts playing russian roulette

[cerulean talon]

Oh yeah. Probally. 😄

[sly elk]

i've observed it before, it's sad but pretty funny

[cerulean talon]

Sounds like standard oom-killer to me.

"You there, process. DIE."

[cerulean talon]

The worst part is when it becomes a zombie.

I hate zombies so much.

[odd sand]

Wanna use up all your memory? Just run WSL2! /s

[sly elk]

-all of my coworkers-

[cerulean talon]

Use docker on Mac

[sly elk]

xD that's probably how we end up with laptops with 64gb ram

[cerulean talon]

That’s a great way to kill your ssd too

[sly elk]

i did that... until they went not-free-for-commercial-users with docker desktop

and I don't really trust the free alternative

[cerulean talon]

Yeeeah

[sly elk]

since almost everyone else uses wsl2, only like 3 of us wanted docker desktop, and the company that licenses it told us we had to buy like 25 seats

and it was $$$$$

and I saw the price and was like ah fuck that, I'll just use vms again

[cerulean talon]

Yeeesh

I just want a real x86 machine, not Rosetta

[sly elk]

oh my work mac is still an i9 2018 macbook pro lol

I am an oddball and at some point in the near future I'm very likely going to have to switch back to a windows dell pos laptop

[cerulean talon]

M2, managed to write like 20tb in a month because it was swapping continually

[sly elk]

and for us engineers we either get the precision that is just a fancier xps 15

or the ole precision 7xxx boat anchor pos

[cerulean talon]

Our entire engineering org is Mac only

[sly elk]

i would love that

but in our org, what happens is just...

it's a more persnickety world, and while you can safely use the macs in a security compliant way in such a world

[cerulean talon]

I’m not a fan, our entire platform is dockerized, and not arm64 compat yet

[sly elk]

we don't have an IT department that knows how to do that

all they know is windows

to them anything that isn't windows is scary

and they have 0 initiative to care

[cerulean talon]

Can’t blame em

[sly elk]

you REALLY can't

and then dell fucking courts such a department

compared to apple's eye roll and look the other way

[cerulean talon]

Yup

[sly elk]

and then there's the whole linux-on-bare-metal hahaha

I'm really sad that IBM bought red hat

[cerulean talon]

God I wish

[sly elk]

we had a good thing going there

[cerulean talon]

I’m so tempted to just put up an x86 box and shove all my work code to it

[sly elk]

i'm not heavily vested in it, but good god that is looking like such a fucking shit show

[cerulean talon]

It’s just a horrible security policy violation

[sly elk]

ahh yep

wait, you can't get them to buy you a windows machine?

or is it that all the engineering security profiles are mac only

[cerulean talon]

No, it’s /forced/ max

*mac

[sly elk]

so they'd have to start over with the windows

hahaha

we should trade companies lol

the funny thing is I'd actually like to try building my stack on an arm computer

[cerulean talon]

I’ve finally got a set of karabiner rebinds i don’t hate

I literally can’t:D

I do want to get a real arm server some day to play with outside of osx

Huh, ampere is getting reasonable

[odd sand]

When did they start that?

Although technically speaking what I've done in docker desktop is more learning skills and not using it for running actual commercial purposes

[cerulean talon]

It’s still free for small commercial users, but they’re pumping larger orgs now

I think up to like 25-50 employees or something like that

[odd sand]

I have no idea why they haven't figured out a way to clear memory usage in WSL2 yet. It's been an issue for years

And sure you can set the default memory low, but then you have to have a really good idea of how much memory your stuff actually needs

[lost python]

oh fuck yes. me and my coworker were picked today at work to swap over to the development team in early 2024

[sly elk]

congrats! Sounds like fun 🙂

[lost python]

as much fun as developing a webtool for the government can be, but it certainly beats providing technical support for it

[real edge]

moving up in the world

[lost python]

a step closer to someday being paid well enough to afford rent in a decent apartment

[real edge]

or buy an apartment should ownership laws relax

its nice being the master of your own house so to say and to never have to rely on landlords or even pay them

rent will increase as cost of living increases

sadly

[lost python]

that will never happen and it will never be an affordable decision

i might save on rent then, but i will still have to pay for utilities and cleaning and if anything breaks i have to take care of it myself
and apartments that are not in a bad shape are as affordable as an entire house

[sharp star]

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090d-for-china-to-feature-ad102-250-gpu D'z NUTS

[modest moss]

Congrats mate

[lost python]

thanks!

[dire viper]

W

I just need to actually go get a cybersec degree and then work for my uncle

Seeing as that’s probably my easiest route to living a decent life

[odd sand]

https://tenor.com/view/run-away-run-escape-chase-leave-gif-3197425647908895068

I've been mired in a neverending hellscape developing a webtool for a dept since last April. It was supposed to take 2-4 weeks...

Special Coding Operation

[lost python]

thats actually kinda the way i want to go for now. first get some certificates for webdev, since i will need those for my current job anyway and then move on to cybersec

[dire viper]

The company my uncle works for has been around for a hot minute, they got bought by IBM to work on Watson and then got sold a few years ago after support for Watson went away

He didn’t have his cybersec degree until last year

he’s been working there since I can remember anything

[odd sand]

A full degree in cybersec feels self-indulgent to me. The vast majority of companies aren't mature enough to tap into the skills you learn from that.

If for no other reason than most companies barely want to pay for IT at all, let alone setting up red and blue teams and having them sim against each other. And the enterprise monitoring and logging tools get stood up but never fully configured and loaded with data or the data isn't understood to make proper decisions from

Like we have 1-2 of our analysts talking about wanting to shift into "threat hunting" when they can barely craft a search query for the log tool and don't understand what they're looking at for logs half the time

[dire viper]

He had to get his degree, his company after all only does cybersec, plus part of them getting sold is that he would get a raise once he got it

[odd sand]

Sure, I get it but at the end of the day I bet he only uses like a third of what is covered in the degree on a daily basis and maybe 60% on a yearly basis heh

That sorta stuff could be covered by a few certs instead

[inland mauve]

I have a MSc degree in cyber security

you are right, most companies cannot tap into that because it's academic

it teaches you a lot of skills that are useful like modelling techniques but it's much more useful to get a security certification like Security+ or CISSP

academic skills are like... not very often useful in an average company, but when they are useful I'm happy I have them

but one way or another, the real thing that you need is experience

and all roads lead there eventually

[odd sand]

To really have meaningful threat hunting you need to know what's on your network (global asset list enriched with metadata), what is more important or less important to set risk values, what "normal" looks like for traffic in different departments or for different users, what is worth chasing and what isn't, etc.

[inland mauve]

the problem is that if your company is sizable, then "normal" traffic is going to look like absolute chaos

[modest moss]

I bet you just use windows defender too

[inland mauve]

[odd sand]

Like my last job they had us blocking IPs of phishing emails that were gonna be dumped by them in 24-96hrs ... yet there they were being added to permanent block lists

[modest moss]

for your home machine of course, not work lol

[inland mauve]

of course not lol

[dire viper]

just dont click on things

:)

[odd sand]

Users using, nothing but trouble.

[inland mauve]

for work we have a stupidly expensive configure-to-order solution that is really not worth the money we pay for it

as most companies do

[odd sand]

And they had someone come in to set it up for the first 2 weeks and there it sits with the long tail of config left undone rite?

[inland mauve]

yep

[odd sand]

Then invariably in a few years they see a new shiny and say the tool hasn't been doing what they want it to (bc they didn't set it up) and they spend more millions shifting to the next tool at 5% setup

[inland mauve]

our infrastructure team does everything they can but the entire Core Systems department is permanently overworked and understaffed

most companies have the same problem with IT: it is considered a supportive function

they don't make money, they just cost it

[odd sand]

Instead of spending those millions on staff to properly setup the tool they already have

[inland mauve]

to a business major it's just a black hole that you have to sadly throw a few bills into because otherwise the company stops working

[odd sand]

Part of that is simply the ppl in IT don't know how to talk business a lot of the time

[golden stream]

Even if it's legit and reasonable expense yesyes

First ^ second is business is all parts making money instead of being a safety net

[odd sand]

How I get my projects advanced is by talking time and money: How much time and money does the current method cost. What cost savings will be realized after 1 year or 3 months or w/e if we spend X time/money overhauling that process?

[golden stream]

Sadly ^

[odd sand]

Sadly yes and no. It's simply the language they speak, and it still gets the things done that should be done IMHO

Basically you need to ask them what things matter to their department or w/e and directly map what you're doing to those keywords

[inland mauve]

it's even worse if you're in Security because not only do you cost money, you also introduce all sorts of extra steps in people's ways of working for the sake of security

[odd sand]

They aren't going to understand your techy jive, but if you can map what you're doing to the words and stuff they understand, it's easier to get buyin

[inland mauve]

and often people have their own idea of security, and don't like it when security comes to tell them how to do security, so they'll come up with their own security projects

which sometimes do work, but then become shadow IT

[odd sand]

To a certain degree, although there are ways to lessen the annoyance like SSO

[inland mauve]

or cause conflicts with other parts of the organization

but more often it's just an excuse to park it because nobody has time to actually work on it

[golden stream]

Also there's a kind of customer/boss in my place: they know what they want and not know what they want at the same time, never give an exact precise answer, give 0 resource then flaming for not doing their works
For IT it sucks

[odd sand]

In the case of security you have to show them what the average cost of a data breach is or a ransomware attack, and show them how your costs are a hedge and insurance against that.

[inland mauve]

I didn't acknowledge that introducing new security measures is a very complicated process where you have to carefully measure the impact of the change against the additional security it actually provides

but I always take that into consideration in my daily job

I sometimes see people complain in here about security at their own jobs, and I always carefully read what they write because it's a perspective that is very important for me to know

[golden stream]

Can test run w rensenware if it's smol and not cause much damage for demonstration

[odd sand]

Yep I just ran into that. Our solution is to get them to define what they want up front and get them to sign off on it. That way if they come back later to complain, you have the signoff to show them this is what they asked for.

[inland mauve]

the key word is "governance"

"governance" means a lot of things

but what you describe is part of that

to force people to take ownership and responsibility of something

so that they don't try to push it off on you later

I've made that mistake myself 😔

[odd sand]

And sometimes we can make time to add or rework things, but either it means they sign off on the additional hours/rework, or it gets put onto the bottom of the pile after the current sprint/epic is done.

[inland mauve]

there is at least one system for which responsibility still lies with me even though it really shouldn't, because we didn't make agreements with the actual owners and they pushed it off on us

[odd sand]

We currently have the problem of a certain dept wants the control of certain systems, but still somehow expects us to be sysadmin for it even tho its inside their perimeter. So it's like playing that bomb defusal game where you're describing the process from the manual to the other person

And we ask for access and they're like no, not secure then etc. Even tho it means their shit is old and busted and if a crisis ever happened, they would be SoL bc nobody understands their stuff to help them

[inland mauve]

yeah what they're trying to do is push the tasks they don't want to off on you

we have to deal with that too

and our response is a loud "fuck no"

because it leads to a situation in which you cannot make any improvements but everything that goes wrong is blamed on you

fuck that, if you want ownership of the system, then FUCKING OWN THE SYSTEM

[odd sand]

Well in our case we have some of the systems from an overall tool we manage in their perimeter, but they refuse to give us access. Yet they also don't have a SME for it there that knows wtf they're doing. So trying to walk them thru problems or upgrades is like being a T1 tech support talking a senior thru a PC problem

So one of the things we're working on as a compromise is overhauling the entire system and if they don't want to give us access, it at least needs to be a stig/baseline we define for all hosts of that type.

[inland mauve]

that's just unreasonable

[odd sand]

That way we can develop configs on our stuff and they can deploy it on their side, but at least we know whats on there and how it works.

[inland mauve]

they're being children over it

[odd sand]

Welcome to gov contractor work lmao

Basically its a divide and conquer where we find inroads in various departments to make stuff work well and make them look bad by comparison until they eventually cave on things

[inland mauve]

yeah unfortunately that's not just in gov contractor work

[odd sand]

And we've pointed out how we're supposed to be the CS/networking dept and they are essentially doing their own shadow IT despite not having the SMEs for it. But upper mgmt doesn't like forcing things if they can help it.

[inland mauve]

yep governance issue

and governance in this context doesn't mean government, it just means that the chain of command in the organization doesn't work properly

upper management often thinks that they are just there to make decisions, like no you also have to make sure that the decisions get carried out

if something is agreed on by a department and they don't actually do it, they will very quickly start moving if the CFO sends then an email to ask them what is taking them so long

[odd sand]

Yeah we're getting the signoff I said and also made a RACI chart so its clear to ppl who is responsible for what

That way if ppl ask unreasonable things we can say you're out of your swimlane heh

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/raci-chart/
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2.1_RACI_Matrix_Chart.png

[lost python]

fml, today i learned i will be moved to dev, but now an old previous colleague from another job contacted me and asked me if i want to take over his old job since he moved on and it sounds really tempting

[odd sand]

What would that be doing and how would the pay be? Also what is the company culture there/coworkers vibe I wonder heh

[lost python]

local IT for an international company. basically doing everything related to the employees hardware and notebooks and being in charge of that for the whole german region.
pay is pretty good for that kinda work, but its 90% onsite and regular trips to other cities. he said its a very chill and fun job

for comparison, i earn a good chunk less rn but with the chance of a lot more in the future and i work 4/5 days per week at home with maybe 4h per day of actual work

[odd sand]

I'd honestly stay where you are then. Even if the chance for more pay in the future, working from home most of the time and laid back work expectations is worth way more IMHO

Think of how much less free time you would have then commuting and being stuck in other cities for days possibly

[lost python]

thats true

on the one hand it offers things i am kinda craving because i am bored to hell and back rn, which miiiiiiight change when i move to dev, but who knows.
but on the other hand i would have a lot less free time

[odd sand]

I'd stick where you are IMHO bc dev usually does offer different things. Every sprint or every project requires different solutions

[lost python]

well not exactly in our case because its really just a single tool we are working on and eventually the team will be massively downsized anyway once its considered "done" which is soon.
unless they decide to expand it to other regions of the country of course.

[odd sand]

Sure, but don't they have other things they develop after that? Like helping roll out dashboards, or automations etc>?

[lost python]

maybe. would require me to switch to a different department then, which most likely wont offer the super chill and flexible working hours like this current one does though hmm

[odd sand]

Well you do you in the end of course

I vastly prefer the WFH and speaking of which, I better get back to work lol

[dire viper]

ive been having an issue with games recently where when they are fullscreen, my monitor will do the whole connection refresh where it flickers in and out and detects display port again

so whenever I tab in or out it does that whole sequence

its not done this before so im a bit miffed

[odd sand]

Try a different cable or replug in the cable on both ends?

[dire viper]

👍

[odd sand]

Otherwise if that fails, try using HDMI instead of DisplayPort or something

Could be the port on the monitor or GPU failing

[potent arrow]

freesync does this to me for some reason too

[odd sand]

Or try a different DP port on the GPU if there are multiple

[deep sapphire]

FREESYNC

AINT NOTHIN IN THIS COUNTRY FOR FREE YUSSUM THATS WHY I USE THE GSYNC

GOBBLESS

[dire viper]

still doing it :/

with free sync off and reconnecting

let me just double do it tho

oh that fixed it

weird

is that my dp cable going bad or?

just shitty part of DP

[odd sand]

What fixed it

Sometimes cables simply get bumped over time and need to be reconnected, or a ghost in the machine and reconnecting resets it heh

[dire viper]

unplugging it again

i unplugged both ends

didnt fix

did it again, fixed

[odd sand]

🤷‍♀️

[snow cypress]

Slowly upgrading my pc and wanted to know if ddr5 is worth getting? Motherboard I plan on getting next week supports it

[umbral moss]

Support is still dodgy on both board and cpus

Even though the spec is ancient now and they're about to drop ddr6 spec

[odd sand]

Iops are supposedly better with ddr5, but don't expect to run it faster than 6000 or 5800

Although boards with only 2 ram slots are more stable and can handle like 7200

If I upgrade for 15th or 16th Gen I'll probably get a 2 slot board so I can get better speeds

[umbral moss]

Personally, I love how hoards are designed with four slots but the board and cpu will shit the bed if you use them all

I feel like having something but the something not working isn't a feature

[lime wasp]

I finally mounted my monitor like someone here said I should; so much better

[glossy ravine]