Soulframe Preludes 13 Hotfix 5: Envoy Forge

[austere frost]

Envoy Forge
Preludes 13 Hotfix 5 brings our second ever Envoy Forge! Earn Fragments for the new dual Virtue Courage-Grace bow and a sharp new Sinecure blade.

New Bow: Avex
A steel-studded boundbow of Ode’n technology.
Spider wire bound tight ‘round orbiting pulleys. Clicking cranks spin with the power of planets. Sinecure hunters boast of Avex’s charged shot, powerful enough to puncture through a doe to kill the fawn behind her, with arrows so sturdy they are wielded as daggers.

New Sword: Falx
The curved arcblade of a Sinecure soldier.
Three spire studs push through the sharp blade’s edge. What began as an error, molten metal seeping from the injection points of this sword’s manufacturing mould, became its finest strength, A warning of the sharp arc they precede. A glitter of starlight through the dark void of night.

Earn Fragments for this Envoy Forge from The Organ.

Enclave Favours
Enemies now drop Enclave Favours, which can be exchanged for Standing with each Enclave representative. This provides an additional way to earn favour with Enclaves!

Sinners' Strategem
A scroll containing valuable intel on Ode activities. Give this item to Lady Deora in the Silent Rose Enclave to gain favour with her faction.

Baskbulb
The ancient seed of a baskbloom tree. When fully grown, it emits beams of sun. Give this item to Avakot in Alca's Children Enclave to gain favour with his faction.

Sineculum
The personal insignia of a fallen Sinecure soldier. Give this item to Fenn Jotar in the Kith of Kings Enclave to gain favour with his faction.

Envoys can redeem Favours with any Enclave, but only an Enclave's respective Favour will reward the full amount. Redeeming a different Enclave’s Favour will grant a reduced amount of Standing (e.g., Sineculum turned in to Alca’s Children).

Envoys can only hold up to 50 of each Favour, for a maximum of 150 total.

Votive and Tale Changes

• Aligned Enclave members have returned and now appear nearby upon completing a Votive Tale! Speak with them to accept new Votives, rather than needing to run to the nearest World Tree.
• Tales ending in dungeons now reward double the amount of Enclave Standing.
• Enclave representatives (e.g., Lady Deora) will now provide a small tutorial prompt on accessing Votives from World Trees.

Virtue and Pact Changes

• Reworked the Virtue Attunement requirements of various split-scaling weapons.
  Juniper: 15 Grace to 9 Grace and 7 Spirit.
  Odiac: 14 Spirit to 8 Spirit and 8 Courage.
  Skílter: 14 Grace to 7 Grace and 7 Courage.
  Basker’s Wrest: 17 Spirit to 9 Spirit and 8 Courage.
  Witan: 15 Grace to 7 Grace and 8 Spirit.
• Virtue upgrades in Pacts now have a maximum of 3 ranks, instead of 4.
  Each rank grants 1, 2 and 3 Virtue points respectively, totalling 6 Virtue points at max rank.

• MANY more changes and fixes. Read the full patch notes on the official Soulframe Forums: https://forums.soulframe.com/topic/10090-soulframe-preludes-13-hotfix-5-envoy-forge/

[thin dragon]

[grave pelican]

[alpine zephyr]

[feral sundial]

[full glade]

[short dock]

Changes look great!

Wish I hadn't already grinded out the faction ranks to get the hybrid prisms since the standing for dungeon runs is doubled now lol but a really important change

[zealous prairie]

Baskbulb... sol, is that you?

-wisp main.

[slow knoll]

Sneaky early patch

[short dock]

REALLY glad to see the split virtue requirements and not having to run back to the tree every votive

[hallow quiver]

ok so this time we dont even get the full notes on discord. Very inconsistant 😛

[gloomy void]

"Aligned Enclave members have returned and now appear nearby upon completing a Votive Tale! Speak with them to accept new Votives, rather than needing to run to the nearest World Tree." This is really nice. Maybe I will finally grind out all of those

[dull creek]

These. 💯

[reef thicket]

Hoping the Fey Pact users reach MR18 while the regular players don't, so the issue is FINALLY on DEs radar.

[marsh geode]

OK SURE, SHADOWDROP..NICE. I am not complaining but...you could have said that in the live of yesterday and everybody would have been happy...

[short dock]

Didn't they already say a few times that the hotfix was this week?

[royal glen]

Pact virtue upgrades would have been better to just put back to the original +10, but this +6 is second best

[marsh geode]

yes thay said that there would have been an hotfix. Not an uptade that adress a huge part of the complains...i guess that is a good day today

[short dock]

I'm not sure what you think a hotfix is then

[slow knoll]

They did tho, on both the Envoy Hour and the Devshort

[marsh geode]

a Hotfix is a minor patch of mechanics recently introduced

[mellow estuary]

So the split requirements is a AND and not an OR right? So you have to meet both. Also, I like the virtue in the pact tree changes

[bleak surge]

Damn still no fix for Orengall summons causing other players games to freeze in mutliplayer? I wanna play Orengall with others again dangit

[lone mountain]

great changes, the ui needs to reflect the attunement requirements when crafting though

[devout light]

Finally I don't have to be a track star for getting more votives

[tough gorge]

That falx is the wrong way, falx blades were sharp on the inside

[slow knoll]

It's reverse on Sinecure planet 😌

[stable shore]

Still hoping for them to ditch virtue requirements...

[full glade]

Yay melee bow is back

[surreal gull]

it shouldn´t be 9 virtue points because there are 3 kind of virtue? or I didn´t understand?

[granite topaz]

For Soulframe, a Hotfix is any update made between Prelude releases, including sometimes some new gear additions or other changes.

Thawtide, for example, was actually a p12 hotfix

[iron hemlock]

[slow knoll]

6 per Virtue
Courage 1 + 2 + 3 = 6
Grace 1 + 2 + 3 = 6
Spirit 1 + 2 + 3 = 6

[surreal gull]

oh okey ty

[iron hemlock]

Sarah lovessneeking

[lavish trellis]

So split virtue weapons need to hit both virtue requirements?

[pallid gate]

no fix for bromius?

[granite topaz]

It's been fixed since last week?

[dim spear]

They said a hotfix was coming this week in the livestream...

[iron hemlock]

“Totem charming now rewards XP.” Interesting

[slow knoll]

Bromius 1 has been fixed last week, it's doing less damage than in older patches but that's not a bug just balancing

[pallid gate]

they said in their stream they will fix him again this hotfix

because of his damage scaling is bugging or the armor? i forgot the reason

[granite topaz]

They said they fixed that last week on the stream?

[slow knoll]

I believe they were talking about that having been fixed already, because he wasn't scaling but has been since the fix last week

[normal apex]

I hope we'll see the same kind of split requirement for armors
Orengall's 20 Grace requirement is steep for a Grace+Courage hybrid armor

[graceful quartz]

Oh wow, this is all awesome actually

[lavish trellis]

Yeah you do need to hit both virtue requirements for the mixed weapons

otherwise you get no scaling at all

[lone mountain]

i do hope that split scaling on these weapons is a sign of more to come because this change is very appreciated on the weapons that fit this

[strange sand]

Great changes!

[thin dragon]

So the melee attack on the new bow are cool ( pretty sure they are from the old bow moveset) but the second attack in the attack chain (the one where you thrust your arrow downwards, cant really hit anything even if you are right up to an enemy

[lone mountain]

also please make the attunement requirement visible on the crafting screen and before buying

[marsh geode]

Yeah I know, but generally an Hotfix is made to patch something. This hotfix change A LOT (and in a very good way) about grinding faction tale.

But yeah, in this game hotfix are wild

It was an unexpected good news

[granite topaz]

The fact they can add so much in a hotfix is why there's no console release yet

So enjoy while it lasts

[marsh geode]

Why do you think that a console release will impede large hotfix?

[granite topaz]

Anything that needs a code push over a server push requires passing certification on consoles

So basically a hotfix that drops a ton of weapons like this would have an additional step to releasing there

[zealous prairie]

They do do it, push updates for warframe on console- there just isn't preceding architecture for the network and object states a specific console build requires for soulframe at all, maybe yeah more modally intensive for alot of soulframe's establishment in interaction being more indirect compared to warframe

[granite topaz]

They absolutely do! But you'll notice they sometimes say fixes have to be held back until a code drop

With their current setup for Soulframe, it's not currently an issue

[marsh geode]

yeah, make sense

thank for the explanation

[cosmic panther]

something is not good, i put a joinery on my baskers wrest and it said i dont have enough weapon space and it completely dissappeared from my inventory even after relog

[thin dragon]

is the arrow on the new bow supposed to be offset like this?

[granite topaz]

Check at the blacksmith crafted page

That used to happen a lot and they just always went there

[thin dragon]

looking more closely it looks like the arrow is also the wrong way around?

[cosmic panther]

i already did its not there

[granite topaz]

Well, that's not ideal

[cosmic panther]

wait no i do have it

but i cant claim it it says not enough space

[granite topaz]

Okay, that's good!

[cosmic panther]

where did my space go?

[granite topaz]

Ah, or not

[cosmic panther]

did i just get -1

[granite topaz]

There was a bug in the past where you could get 1 more weapon than slots

[cosmic panther]

bro i got stolen 1 weapon slot now

🙁

[granite topaz]

Did you recently upgrade or buy a new founders pack?

[cosmic panther]

i didnt

[granite topaz]

Sounds like support ticket time

[cosmic panther]

i did like 2 weeks ago

[granite topaz]

And also file a #1438224825113120788 post while you're at it, if you would does the bug report dance

[cosmic panther]

nah ill live with it ill just sell one of my weapons

but if it happens again im def writing ticket

[cosmic panther]

bet ill do that

[flat ledge]

Some people can now get to MR18 because of Old Fey pact, please equalise max xp DE ♥️

[zealous prairie]

Different virtues attunements to talisman and armour? Verus assassin suddenly is 90 not 30 with orengall armour and bloomin bodkin

[dusky urchin]

BACK TO ORGAN FARMING WE GO

[reef frost]

https://tenor.com/view/shiba-inu-mining-nvidia-rtx-gif-7238769171237475159

[feral elk]

Tales ending in dungeons now reward double the amount of Enclave Standing.

LETS GOOOOO

[solid trail]

will we get a boost or replacement to catch up with those who leveled the Fey pact previously?

[zealous prairie]

Oh. My pact was on a different one- so thats for sirin

[austere drum]

These changes look so damn good. Seem to address alot of problems I had 😄

W hotfix

[languid summit]

Hello, here are a few issues to report:

No flute sounds have been playing since the latest patch.

No end music during the Sparrow account animations.

No sound plays when charming animals.

My Berserker Grip still appears at the end of missions even though it is already max level.

Additionally, would it be possible to disable the end-of-mission animation for the Sparrow account, similar to how it works for 1-star, 2-star, and 3-star missions?

[sharp wind]

Totem charming awards XP 🥰

[orchid helm]

Changes look like they will make build crafting much easier!

[reef thicket]

The toem charming seems to be laggy now tho, the dust that you get isn't shown correctly as far as i can tell. And no way to check the amount of xp you got.

[gilded relic]

my only gripe is the falx looks more likea kopesh. this does not strike fear in the roman legion

[blissful drum]

Bow looks so cool! Might main it for a bit when I get it.

[devout anvil]

Fellas, dungeons offer double rep. This is what it should have been from the start. I can now actually go into a dungeon without feeling like I want to break my jaw from complaining all the time.

[devout anvil]

Wow, did not notice. Wonder how much XP?

[open oak]

Sinners' Statagem?! Sweet liberty!

[kindred junco]

I have to do more Organ again?

[tidal onyx]

yes

[grim hawk]

Glad they made faction grinding better… to bad I’m maxed all factions already YEEEET

[tidal onyx]

buy joineries

[grim hawk]

Yes very true!

Great changes. They cooked with this patch.

[tiny bramble]

But I love playing with my Organ

[red summit]

Love the virtue requirement changes. Easily obtainable with skill tree and a +6 talisman. This is a huge step for build diversity and we should be seeing more of this. Spirit Gathannan??

[pallid gate]

"totem charming now rewards XP" XP from equipments right?

*for equipments

[slow knoll]

Weapons and Pacts I imagine yes

[tiny bramble]

Request to keep pinging us in #soulframe-news for updates, by the way. I never would have noticed this if someone didn't mention it elsewhere.

Part of me hopes it's just your pact because if you charm a bunny with your weapon, you're probably doing it wrong. 😆

[elder moat]

Both weapons are from the Organ?

[pliant gazelle]

What is Envoy Forge?

[cosmic pond]

+1

[glossy sinew]

I believe its supposed to be similar to the Tenno creations in Warframe

[pliant gazelle]

i don't play Warframe

does that mean, weapons made by fans?

[pale karma]

yes, made by a community artist

[pliant gazelle]

oh, so the bow was made by someone in the communty?

cool

[slow knoll]

No it's Tenno Reinforcements

[pale karma]

maybe idk

[slow knoll]

Not community made

Envoy Forge is used for a hotfix that adds some new equipment, Soulframe does not (yet) have an equivalent to Tennogen which is community made skins

[pale karma]

oh i see

[pliant gazelle]

But, they have added weapons in hotfixes before already

I believe they added Precklies in a hotfix

[atomic compass]

They're taking away 3 virtue points?
Or changing it from +4 total to +6 total?

[slow knoll]

The latter

Was +4 for 10 Pact points
Is now +6 for 6 Pact points

[atomic compass]

Okay thank you

[pale musk]

Wevetseeds aren't fixed at all 😩

[normal wolf]

yooo i just came from work and got a juicy hotfix

thx DE

[rotund reef]

Was thinking this same thing!

[still summit]

read

[rotund reef]

I can confirm this, and it's been a huge downfall for MANY live-service games. This is where a lot of developers choose just steam releases (plus the cost savings obviously).

[still summit]

jfc this looks like a banger to me no bad stuff in here!

[rotund reef]

I appreciated this more than you will ever know. 🫡

[slow knoll]

YUS!!
** Total Enclave Standing is now displayed at the top of the rewards list for ease of access. **

SUS
** Fixed a rather large mushroom in Roods. **

[hasty helm]

My Wevetseeds keep on disappearing :[

[copper vapor]

NOOO my precious giant Fire Fungus 😭

[vestal zephyr]

How are the droprates for the standing tokens? Do they drop from all enemies or only heavy units?

[copper vapor]

Also what's the amount of rep they give? I'm' assuming it's a pretty mild amount but still I'm' glad to have em

[bronze niche]

SINECURE FUCKING KHOPESH!!!!!!!!

[dusk scaffold]

Fix Fey Pact XP:
Brozine without new weapons
-Phos without new weapons, no Fey Pact

Frend from me no Fey Pact but leveled new weapons (lvl 17 pic)

[copper vapor]

It'd be kinda funny if being there for Fey pact was our equivalent of founder items giving that last nudge of MR in WF lol. But yeah, they should probably even this out at some point.

[dim spear]

Whats the Fey pact?

[abstract condor]

Pre-P9 there was a Pact that was later split into Tethren/Oscelda/Sirin starters. (Mostly Oscelda and Sirin)

[ripe wing]

an old pact where tethren, oscelda and sirin were combined

[dim spear]

Oh thats crazy

[fleet loom]

im surprised they havnt removed the xp from that still lol

unless its not as simple as a fix as we all think 🤣

[copper vapor]

So I guess Fey pact + new stuff and you can hit ER 18 now?

Oh ok nvm

[dusk scaffold]

@abstract condor Okay, then tell me what the difference is between the XP bars?

[granite topaz]

Which XP bars? There's a few

[abstract condor]

Third one seems more at the limit than Brozime's one I guess.
Not sure I understand the question.

[rotund reef]

I'm new to the game, can someone give me a brief or detailed explaination of the full issue here?

[abstract condor]

There was a Pact that does not exist anymore, those who mastered that Pact back when it existed kept the exp derived from it now that it does not any longer.

[dusk scaffold]

Okay, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. Let me rephrase the question: what causes the XP difference between -Phos and Brozine? If it's not the Fey Pact, as you say.

@abstract condor

[abstract condor]

Er, I'm not saying that?

[wheat stream]

Hey @austere frost super sorry to bother but would you folks mind explaining the term "Envoy Forge" on one of your envoy hours/shorts/or devstrims coming up? I've seen it used a couple times now and I just want to know what it indicates if possible. (is it just an indicator for a patch containing weapons? some sort of tennogen program?) Thanks so much and keep up the good work!

[cosmic panther]

they prolly plan bringing back a fey pact with balanced abilities so they dont remove xp to cause issues

so everyone prolly gonna be able to get fey pact later on

[dusk scaffold]

@abstract condor That's right, you didn't claim otherwise. I apologize, I was too emotionally charged.

[wheat stream]

We know there is a Fey Queen coming ^_~ Let's let them cook.

[soft maple]

it seems to be what Tenno Reinforcements used to be back in very early Warfame, a small patch with a couple of Weapons to add some meat to the bones of the game

[vestal zephyr]

is the erstroot still at the organ...

i guess it is since there are only 2 new weapons to replace it yeah?

[granite topaz]

No

[lime sorrel]

What does Envoy Forge mean?

Earn Fragments for this Envoy Forge from The Organ.

[fleet loom]

oh probably, but id imagine if they bring it back itll then be reset to 0

[sterile forge]

Finally, the real preludes patch. Time to log in

[short dock]

Kind of feels that way honestly

[tiny bramble]

Does the double standing for tales ending in dungeons include the crypt?

[stark aurora]

DE please, that was not a bug!!!

[regal blade]

Here I thought I was finally free from organ farming, oh well, back I go.

[slow knoll]

Um, anyone else losing pieces of loot when you crash?

I crashed and lose 2 Avex and multiple faction token things

[slow knoll]

BRING BACK THE MEGA MUSH

#SAVETHEMEGAMUSH

[fleet loom]

im glad i waited to go to crazy with organ farms lol

[slow knoll]

wait a second, I jsut got a 0/3 Avex

[stark aurora]

[slow knoll]

I wish it wasnt disappearing so fast so I could screen grab it

[dim briar]

`xd

[coarse jacinth]

Fey pact users dont have more mastery. Its been extensively tested by me and a few others who did and didnt max out the pact.

Mastery XP from fey pact was removed from accounts that maxed it sometime quietly after p12 launch. Thats when we tested to see if people still had the mastery from the now removed pact.

My friend who didnt use the pact currently who also has everything maxed has the same mastery xp amount as me

Not saying some fringe accounts who didnt have it removed properly cant exist. But the majority of us dont have it now

[tall sierra]

Can someone show a pic of the max mastery beacuse I have everything and I'm below some people I've seen, what I tought is that I was missing the motes from the big castle in south 🤷‍♂️

[dusk scaffold]

Fey Pact still give xp for old Envoy Accounts.....

[brazen vector]

Moro1757!

[weak flicker]

These are some great changes. Not sure I understand the one about the weapon virtue reqs, but I’ll see what it is later tonight.

[coarse jacinth]

My friend who doesnt have fey pact xp is also 18

Same amount of xp

Given you need all the founders goop

[sweet bridge]

Why is the +4 virtue on pacts removed?

Less wiggle room if i wanna use Marrow's bane now 😕

[true hatch]

It’s kinda been built into the prisms instead

[sweet bridge]

not that, the pact upgrade tree one

they removed the 3rd extra rank

[true hatch]

Hey do people know where both weapons are?

[sweet bridge]

the new bow from clearing organ tower, just found one since i spawned nearby and balled

[granite topaz]

The buff went from +4 at max upgrade to +6 with this hotfix

So from that perspective, we actually gained 2

[sweet bridge]

pretty sure it was +1 +2 +3 +4 as thats how i hit 40 courage a while back

unless the system itself was nerfed in the previous months

[granite topaz]

That was changed with p13 to +1 +1 +1 +1

Then with this hotfix changed to +1 +2 +3

[sweet bridge]

well from my point of view who barely touched p13 first day its still a nerf 🙃

[quick nacelle]

Compared to P12, yeah

[dusk iron]

Bianisko mencioned

[dim briar]

[winged current]

[winged current]

This MR XP is only for content creators.

[copper vapor]

Yeah eventually they ought to even out that disparity. It'd be weird if the "WF founder MR boost" equivalent was tied to being lucky enough/early enough to get the cut Fey pact.

[true moat]

The 4th rank is removed but now instead of only getting 4 virtue points, you get 6. This a good buff, Instead of 10 points for 4 virtue points, it's 6 points for 6 virtue points.

[hallow spire]

That new bow fires the arrows backwards hilariously enough

I don't like the hybrid stat weapons needing both stats. You should only need one honestly the whole virtue system seriously limited what weapons you can use and that sucks compared to before when I had the freedom to use any weapon with any playstyle being a healer with a greatsword felt wonderful

[sweet bridge]

it was 10 for 10 on p12, so still a reduced number nonetheless

[quaint halo]

my god i didn't realize it was 30 extra then no wonder they nerfed it

[tardy hearth]

i just tried witan and it feels so weak, then i realized it now has 8 spirit requirement.
I literally just finally got it yesterday and it got nerfed from being all grace as an all grace player.

[reef thicket]

There are evidently lots of MR18 accounts out there, when it shouldn't be possible to have that rank yet. Your exclusive testing doesn't change that.
This is super annoying and has to be fixed by DE. It is absolutely unacceptable, that there are different max ranks for random people.

[coarse jacinth]

I'm MR 18 with this current update, so is my friend who didn't play fey

I also didn't say my exclusive testing changed that.

[coarse jacinth]

not here to argue either just saying, keep it civil. me and a LOT of people on the discord tested it and a majority of people should have the same mastery

[coarse jacinth]

I super agree, I think all the requirements could come down a bit in general and just reward scale down a bit with it

It would be nice alternatively to be able to alter the requirement amount one way or another by adding attunement with blessed.

let the # of attunements determine which attribute requires more or something.

[tardy hearth]

Now that's a suggestion i can get behind, the hyrbid just doesnt work for those who just max all in one virtue like myself. I also dont see why some weapons like witan even need a hybrid.

[true hatch]

I think if they have to have virtue requirements, I think the best way to handle it could be smaller to larger amounts based on how rare/powerful/attuned the weapon is. Common weapons like Sollos and Vasp should have little to no requirements while the Bromius longsword should maybe have one for how powerful it can be

[modern mason]

Personally I think they need to go away from Virtue Attunements because they are tying too many things to these 3 numbers/values.

The problem before was that Grace's and Spirit's effects were so negligible that people saw no reason to go higher than the minimum for a weapon, where as Courage not only affected ability strength (if I'm remembering how it worked correctly), but also just straight up raised weapon damage, so everyone who knew about this just pumped all their spare points into Courage.

Now Courage gets arguably the strongest weapons, strongest armors (if I did the math right) AND the most health, perpetuating the same problem. People will just be using mostly Courage builds, but locked to strictly Courage weapons and armor unless they have a talisman for Grace or Spirit, or use one of the one hour potions.

[reef thicket]

Good testing then, interesting that even some people without fey pact have MR18. But the "majority" of people who have done everything in the game only have MR17. I have done everything (other than the two new weapons) and can't get to MR18. There is enough evidence to say that something is wrong with the MR 18 accounts and it has to be addressed .

[sharp wind]

I actually do not feel this way

[unreal coral]

Heyo - the Rank of accounts is different due to choice of investing in the future of the game.

This comes in the form of purchase by choice of some of the player base. I.e Wyld Pacts to obtain weapons/items.

This support the overall team to create a better game overall for all players.

The account level is indicative of this level Rankz therefore giving slightly higher virtues for the account holders they have chosen to invest in becoming a Founder of the game.

By no means is this random - it's been made clear at some stage, Wyld pacts will be available to be termed within game.

Essentially, early access to Wylde allow for thorough testing of the game

Inherently this allows for better growth of the game, all players essentially will be able to acquire the rank account necessary to achieve similar numbers

[sharp wind]

Just wanna say DE you are awesome, this is a very good patch, The following little things makes a huge difference and made the game much more fun:

• Totem Taming Rewards XP
• Killing random enemies was fun, now even more addicting that they drop token.
• Tales chain/Dungeon rep increase is just beautiful, now I actually just want to do dungeons!
• Increased drop rate of Scrap Brass was cherry on the top.

You already won me before, now like even much more. I am so excited to see what you have in store next, you sure make me feel that "having fun" is an objective of yours.

[unreal coral]

Heartedly agree on this! Thank you DE for these implementations - this had been an excellent addition to the Preludes

[pale musk]

I'm hoping they re-evaluate the drop tables and drop chances for fragments. I'm loving the Organ, the music is great, but the bloat was already a concern brought up by Steve when they moved Clivers out of the drop table. Only for it (and the damn Erstroot) to be replaced with the new bow and sword.

I understand there being that need to add scarcity to drive people to maybe spend money on Arcs but... this feels more like a single player game currently. It works in Warframe because it helps populate the content. I have still never seen a fragment of dewelion or gathannan despite doing the content that drops them quite a few times.

[reef thicket]

That's not the issue. I'm talking about Paragon founders. I am a Paragon founder. I have all wyld pacts and the Paragon sword. WITH ALL THAT it's still not possible to reach MR18. I have 500-800 hours in the game, every dungeon played hundreds of times, every motes collected, all fables, all trees including the island one, almost all weapons reforged multiple times. There is zero chance I am missing sensible MR XP anywhere

[mortal granite]

You deserve a medal

[feral elk]

For those who keep thinking Courage is the best stat; You've not checked headshot damage in a Grace build. Some kind of stagger buff for Grace players who wants to be more combat rogue would be welcome though

As for weapon requirments; a softer effect on it would be welcome. Maybe at a single point off the damage scaling is reduced to x0.75, and the penalty before is a percentage of 0.75 taken from the requirement number as steps

You're at 7 on a requirement of 10; 0.75*0.8 = 0.6 => 40% damage penalty (0.75 is at 10-1)

[cosmic panther]

lmao its just rng i got gathannan in 9 stag kills and farmed both new weapons in 6 organs

5 or 6 im not sure

[unreal coral]

Patience is a virtue - at some point - you'll achieve actual level 18 account

[icy nymph]

Fantastic hotfix, already massively feeling that split scaling change on the few weapons it has been updated for.

But i would still like this to be applied to all split scaling weapons, really no reason not to, and on top of that id like to see some diversification within the weapon classes. Cut down on multiple weapons with identical scaling unless the other variant also is covered. Like duhk halic, gath and rook are all courage spirit.

The new bow not having arrow rain on one hand kinda sucks because arrow rain is really good and you dont really want to be close with bows. But on the other hand the weapon has a unique identity among bows, which is a very good thing. Weapons should have something unique about them, weather it be a unique heavy attack, unique combos or some special effect. Theres only so many times that you can release the same weapon before it gets stale.

Some cool ideas could be a spear that pins enemies on throw, a magic caster having the old ode lightning aoe field, a sword that bleeds enemies,

[hazy forum]

I respectfully disagree with this, also you clearly haven’t been using a grace bow build if you think courage is the most dominant lol.

[modern mason]

You're forgetting gamers are lazy and will go for ease of use over anything else.

Crits might be getting stupid with Grace builds, but will people go for pin-point accurate headshots, or something they can easily/mindlessly spam?

[hazy forum]

well different people enjoy different play styles I don’t think you can really speak for everyone in that regard, I personally enjoy all 3 of the virtues play styles and I find they have much more balance in their uses than preludes 12 thats for sure.

[abstract condor]

On the other hand quite a few go out of their way to make the biggest number possible, even if wildly unpractical, and/or not really useful.

[inner mulch]

Nah. Sometimes I feel like to take my time to have the perfect headshot and sneak my way upon sieges. Sometimes I feel like leaping into combat slashing my way in. And sometimes I like to see my screen glow with magicks. We're not lazy. We just like some playstyles or anothers (or all of them)

[gentle moth]

Love everything but... Another sword? Really? Ugh 🙄

[unreal coral]

A few diversified shield, Polearm virtue variants would be nice to see in the weapons area

As far as this HotFix, it's a very diversified usage of prisms, weapons, damage mutlipers with headshots, Avex bow is wonderful - only the arrow is facing towards us when fired/held incorrectly.

[pale karma]

https://giphy.com/gifs/xbox-demons-diablo-4-TQeGenZ1QmRVmM80d8

this one from diablo shield with really really long polearm

lol

[vestal zephyr]

How is yall getting the bow alr omg

[pale karma]

I bought it right away because I want DE to take my money

for me at least

[unreal coral]

I went to Capitalist Camel 🐫 - Purchased Avex Bow 🏹 ( it's arrow is facing towards us when. Used). It's a very fun and great looking weapon

[coarse jacinth]

I mastered the fey pact and I couldnt reach Mr 18 without the new weapons

@reef thicket

If there are people at Mr 18 before the two new weapons its surely a bug

[reef thicket]

The point is that the unlucky accounts can't reach MR 18 with the new weapons either

[coarse jacinth]

Interesting

My buddy hit 18 with thw two new weps and founders as well and he never played fey pact so its Def a byg

Bug*

[granite topaz]

Discovering location names and world trees also gives Envoy Rank xp, wondering if some small differences there could add up?

[reef thicket]

I'm quoting myself again: I have every tree (even island), every weapon, every mote, every location and dungeon in the game, and some accounts still have more MR and it has been like this forever.

[granite topaz]

Meant in terms of some accounts without Fey Pact getting 18

Fey Pact XP still existing isn't really in dispute here.

[dim briar]

DE gimme my seeds again, i had 10k+

[meager matrix]

what is the point of the bow if we can not do arrow hail with it????

i mean what is the point of the bow if there is no arrow hail xd

[dusk iron]

use melee

[meager matrix]

nah im good with a headshot build

oscelda is gonna be more used now by me xd aside that all i used was garren rood and tethren xd

[dusk iron]

The game has been lacking meaningful differences between weapons within the same category, which is why it’s great that we finally got something different and it’s excellent. You can even use Arrow Hail with the rune.

It’s basically the best bow in the game right now, reaching huge numbers for both auto-attack builds and for players who prefer the rune-based Arrow Hail playstyle.

[meager matrix]

yeah i feel like it is a heavy bow instead of a simple bow

[tiny bramble]

It does, by the way.

[soft tiger]

Anyone using avex?

[fringe mantle]

You know what this game just doesn’t have enough of? Fuggin long blades

[abstract condor]

Who need shields anyway?

[dusky urchin]

me, 2 is not enough!

[fringe mantle]

Someone posted this meme in another discord yesterday I thought it was awesome 🤣

[quick nacelle]

haha that was me #1476597903672737943 message just out of curiosity how did you end up adding black bars onto it? is that because it's a mobile screenshot or did it just save like that?

[fringe mantle]

Mobile, also credits to you sir!

[quick nacelle]

Ahh fair I didn't know if it was just the image doing something funny!

And noo all credits to DE, they're the magicians who made the bromius shield disappear 👀 (for now)

[reef thicket]

The two different types of accounts are perfectly shown with Brozime and Sarah Loves Archery. Brozime has a high MR account and Sarah has a low MR account. Both have done everything in the game. I have a Sarah account.

[granite topaz]

I wasn't commenting on that at all, was replying to the person commenting their friend without Fey Pact had ER 18

[dusk scaffold]

I know I'm repeating myself

[abstract condor]

Just to note, as far as I know Notes do not give MR, discovering locations does ~~(including dungeon tiles).
If you want to double check you got all the mastery from locations check if you have the following in the Journal in addition to the overworld stuff:

    Bastion
    Crypt of Auld Jotar
    Dermak Market
    Fenn's Sanctuary
    Forgotten Refuge
    Pegroot Mill
    Terpeth District

Glades of Andurin
    Folksgrove
    Glades of Andurin
    Picktrix Thicket

Crypt of the Circade
    The Tomb of The Circade```~~

[quick nacelle]

Some more recent testing indicated that it wasn't dungeon tiles, it was just discovering one's first ever entrance to a particular dungeon tileset

It should all be up to date on https://wiki.avakot.org/Mastery but basically it's

The initial discovery of Locations and new Dungeon Types (for example discovering one's first ever Neath'uns entrance), such that they are recorded in the Journal, provides a small amount of Mastery

[abstract condor]

Good to know, I will stop misinforming people.

[flat tiger]

Avex should have the same combo we had on prelude 8 for melee bows. It was funnier than the combo we have, now, on that weapon...

[abstract condor]

P9 did not have the melee bow.
-# Unfortunately for me.

[dusk scaffold]

I have all these places in my journal.

[urban shell]

tbf its an overall buff. Virtue goes from 10:4 to 6:6 giving anybody the ability to do +6 all virtue with an extra 12 points to put into ACTUAL CLASS PASSIVES so if anything its an all across the board buff

[meager matrix]

Honestly i hope and i wish they introduce Gauntlets with a ruin that make the gauntlet work like baruuk's 4th that would be awesome ngl

[blissful zealot]

does anyone know how to turn in the enclave favours, I don't see a way to do so?

[granite topaz]

Faction shop sell tab

[blissful zealot]

thank you for helping to point out how blind I am

[granite topaz]

All good, it's not super intuitive!

[dim briar]

stop bro, please

we are all already aware

chill

[coarse jacinth]

Im saying it largely doesnt exist as many of us tested in p12 that we no longer had more mastery for fey pact anymore.

[short dock]

Man you have been at this at least all day today - please just log a ticket and find something else to do my god

[dim briar]

[coarse jacinth]

Especially considering a lot of us have tested this and what you show in those images are how accounts looked before the update a couple days ago adding the two weapons, and after.

This counteract about 50 of us that yelled over this very matter and learned we all have the same xp by the end. Im just saying acting like the potential fringe cases are grevious sins is kinda excessive

This is a playtest with hardly any sustainable evergreen content, why if the rare disparity does exist does a sliver matter so much?

[reef thicket]

Wrong. There are two different possible MR states of accounts and idgaf about your so called anecdotal "tests", even if 50 people did it. Brozime has a high MR ceiling account, Sarah loves archery has a low MR ceiling account, if thats due to fey pact or a chicken sacrifice doesn't matter.

[reef thicket]

And that a sliver thats literally the difference between a full MR doesnt matter to you means only that you should back out of the dicussion, as this concerns the people that do care, not the ones that dont.

[hazy forum]

does the new totem charming exp go towards envoy rank? confused what the exp is actually for

[abstract condor]

Weapon and Pact, at least from my testing.

[coarse jacinth]

Hey man keep it civil, we're here to talk about a game the hostility is not nessicary

[coarse jacinth]

Its unnessicary to act like you control any given subject nor how its spoken about. But if you dont care about factual data on the matter and choose to listen to part of my point? have a nice day im done trying to clarify what ive proven a few times since p12

This is JUST a video game, maybe it's time to take a step back if youre getting this heated with folks, just talking about it.

No need to get rude and aggressive

[true hatch]

Plus it’s a pre alpha. It’s annoying, sure, but I’m sure it’s gonna get addressed later down the line. As it stands there’s not a point where the Fey MR actually pushes anyone to an MR others can’t reach

[reef thicket]

Yes. normal accounts cant reach MR17, regardless of what that guy says

[hazy forum]

ah fair enough, cheers

[urban shell]

As of Hotfix 5, That shouldnt be the case.

[true hatch]

I think founders might actually make 18

[urban shell]

Founders are in 18, Well to be precise, Paragon founders are guranteed 18

[reef thicket]

No, you are wrong. this is how it is:

[urban shell]

Ah rip, My B, I thought the 2 new weps would for sure push it over

[reef thicket]

even if they would, there are still 2 different account states

[dusk iron]

No Bianisko reference now

[dusk iron]

Bro, just wait

They're going to fix it, why are they so angry about this?

[reef thicket]

Because NOW is the time to be loud about it. NOW is the time its a full MR difference. And DE have not fixed this issue for a year now, it is time its becoming widespread knowledge. People didnt care when most of the playerbase didnt even see it, but now they do.

[dusk iron]

Funny that I already gave feedback about this and talked about it several times, I said it was a problem and everything (even though I had it and the XP), I commented about it within my community and everything, I always gave this feedback saying that extra XP based on the luck of getting a Preludes key was unfair, people just waited until the water reached their neck to realize it.

[reef thicket]

Same here. I've been saying it since multiple version before, I asked Brozime on stream about it etc. And people didnt get it (they still don't) and/or didnt care. Now more people finally realize whats going on, thus it's a great time to make noise. Else this will be in the game forever, always ignored, denied and at the bottom of the priority list.

[dim briar]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-fix-yourself-gif-9600376884491755775

[dusk scaffold]

@dusk iron You ask why I'm so angry? I've been seeing this problem for a year and no one has ever been interested. Despite tickets and posts. And so far, it has never made a difference. But now we've reached the point where it does make a difference. DE always says they want to make everything fair and don't want p2w for the founders, which is why, according to them, everyone will get everything later on. If you say that, then you have to be consistent and follow through in all respects. Alignment of MR XP and adjustment for the Prelude Talisman with the footprints. Yes, it may be petty, but this is about fairness that is proclaimed but not enforced.

[dusk iron]

I completely agree. Like i said, the community itself waited for this to happen. I was actually the first one to share it (no wonder the image is still circulating around) precisely to show the community this unfair XP method.

[pale karma]

Now or Anytime at all is NOT the time to be mad about it. 😂

(I know I know, pretty crazy notion right?! 😆 )

1st, we're still in Pre-Alpha (this reason alone should be enough). 2nd, this isn't a MOBA game where having an advantage over other players will break the ranking system making the game broken.

You're not up against players, you're up against the Ode'n Empire who doesn't know they are being used as guinea pigs to test out weapons, so take a sit and chill out.

[hybrid chasm]

lmk when prisms are removed

[dusk iron]

+1

[hazy forum]

prisms were a neat addition, no reason to be petty about it

its still pre-alpha and things will likely change alot

[icy nymph]

Yeah, the issue with the old system wasn't that ability damage was always better than duration or range. It was just that you got like 15% duration and 5% range from max investment and like 50-200% strength. But no courage did not just raise weapon damage. All 3 raised weapon damage just like it does now, courage attuned weapons gained damage from courage, spirit attuned from spirt and grace attuned from grace.

I would like to see each virtue do more than just 1 thing, but currently the scaling amounts feel pretty good, we could do with a bit more health and a bit more cooldown reduction per point to round out split builds. Honestly not that big a fan of the ability scaling system as it is and would prefer the old system if the fixed the basline for abilities and fixed the scaling to make each more valuable.

As for current grace is definitely the strongest, especially since the new bow does not have arrow rain, bow and daggers are definitely the 2 strongest weapon classes thanks to their broken runes, and the "skilled hit" scaling is just really really high which actually pairs perfectly with both bows and daggers for finishers and headshots gaining a little over 3x damage.

As for armor, in terms of raw stats, courage is actually the worst of the 3 with grace having the highest total stats.

The new patch has done a good job at diversifying weapon choices, close to max spirit now has access to witan and juniper now, close to max courage now has access to magic sidearms. If all split scaling weapons get the new pass i think we will be in a fantastic spot.

[quick nacelle]

the Ode'n Empire who doesn't know they are being used as guinea pigs to test out weapons

LMAO I love this, poor Ode don't know what's coming

[ebon warren]

lmao

[coarse jacinth]

That is true courage has less stats in survivability but thats due to inherent from the attribute and the higher health stats. 200 health almost between grace and courage

So it sort of balances out. I think they didnt want grace and spirit to feel like the same survivability

What i can say is the extra health does make a difference

Its not big enough imo but in action courage does have better staying power. It could use a bit more though lol

[dim briar]

+1

[coarse jacinth]

Let me know when prisms are refined to allow better stat control, and when basic/ hybrid prisms are auto unlocked at account start. We lost a lot of gameplay control fidelity with faction locking for hybrid builds

Its not a bad system for old players so much as its really rough on new players who many where previously used to more loose cross attribute play with loadouts

Now the gate to access that is much more demanding making cross building an endgame functionality when previously it was readily available to everyone

[abstract condor]

They did acknowledge that Factions is not a really great place to put them on, but it was also mentioned that Hybrid builds are not supposed to be an early game thing.

[coarse jacinth]

I dont see why not

As it stands hybrid builds dont really have any immediate advantages

[abstract condor]

Double dipping in the Virtue bonuses, if less efficiently.

[coarse jacinth]

So what? The weapons dont get stronger

[abstract condor]

HP, CD, and Stealth I mean.

[coarse jacinth]

So? Its still less for whatever you double dip in

Its not like youre getting thw full benefits of both

And with well build pacts and talisman you can cross class on a single attribute prism anyway

They should patch the design holes if they are going to annex the reduced cross benefits given by hybrid

[abstract condor]

I don't really see them as design holes tbh.

[coarse jacinth]

Effectively hybrid isnt the best of both but more of a jack of all trades master of none.

So it feels very much like its on par with non hybrid so why annex it to endgame?

[abstract condor]

It is more flexible.

That doesn't need to mean it should be better.

[coarse jacinth]

In what way? Lesser buffs on gear that you can use a more diverse set of at the same time

It sounds like its just greater diversity

Which is a bad thing to lock behind a progress gate when the game is built around chance drops for a ton of weapons in a big pool

It feels like you get punished if early on you dont fine gear in your attribute

And theres nothing you can do about it now

Just addressing a complaint ive heard from a lot of people I know playing on newer accounts

[abstract condor]

That is a progression problem, ideally there should be a clearer path forward.

[coarse jacinth]

Diversity should be a given not earned

Thats what drew me and a lot of others to soulframe. No gates forcing you to one playstyle on a tineline

This feels like a step backwards in playability for new players

[abstract condor]

I can see why you would think it is a bad thing if that is what drew you in.

[coarse jacinth]

At the very least i think the starting prisms and some weaker hybrid prisms should be given at account start

Its also something they've been pushing and still are in making loadouts work better using prisms

So it feels very goofy to keep a feature that would encourage people to play more gated behind having to grind your brains out

Cause grinding is a good time to experiment and playtest what you like, if youre gated out till its done, doesnt feel very good

[abstract condor]

🤔
Maybe giving the perfectly balanced as a starter on top of your slight focused one?
Though that would probably be a bit useless at the start.

[coarse jacinth]

Immediate start prism doesnt matter much

Its when you get to like account level 5-6 where it starts to feel hindering into 7-9 where you end up feeling stuck

Esp if you run the location motes and trees early

Lots of points, but not many tools you can use effectively. Given the no debuffs for -not- meeting the req. Is better than it was

[abstract condor]

As I mentioned, they did mention not being happy with how the Prism are obtained.
I imagine it will be changed at some point.

[coarse jacinth]

Right im more talking on my thoughts and shared experiences for it to be available should they read this

Not arguing or nothing lol just talking about whats on my mind with the changes

I actually really love p13, but I feel it does kick new players in the fun

[abstract condor]

It does have issues, but overall I think the system is solid enough.

[coarse jacinth]

I actually agree

After configuring my loadouts i can do everything I was enjoying doing better and in more specialized ways

System feels good to me. Acquisition not so much lol

Its pre alpha though it'll get polished before long

We can hope

[abstract condor]

I do have issues with the system being item based, but yeah, the acquisition is brutal for new players right now.

[coarse jacinth]

Ohhhh I also have issues with the item based nature but love that it allowed loadouts to carry attribute values

So I have mixed heart on that XD

[abstract condor]

To be fair that can be done without it being an item based system.
Wouldn't be that different than saving colors.

[urban shell]

Honestly if more people shared T3 kills it wouldnt be bad for new players

[coarse jacinth]

Ive had this exact thought

[abstract condor]

Kinda feels the additional hassle isn't worth it, maybe matchmaking on the Votives would open up more poeple to just host T3 tales.

[coarse jacinth]

Making the issue on the players laps when multi-player isnt even consistently not buggy, feels a bit heavy fisted

[urban shell]

Not saying it she be done/forced, Just an honest statement that Ive noticed spending a lot of time on the game, Not many share T3s granted its been more since P13 has dropped

[coarse jacinth]

Youre meaning t3 quests?

[urban shell]

Is there any other T3 meaning?

[coarse jacinth]

Is that a yes

[weak flicker]

Perhaps when they add Naxxramas

[coarse jacinth]

Good talk. Just saying multi-player bugs have been heavy since p13 maybe folks are just bug burned out

[abstract condor]

One of the horsemen has to be thrown out of the zigurat since the gimmick wouldn't work with a three player limit. 😛
-# Would love to have something like that though, here hoping raids will be a thing.

[coarse jacinth]

Doesn't seem on the communities chest to solve the prism gate issue

If the community sharing t3s is required to make new player experience tolerable then a well balanced game this is not

[urban shell]

Doesnt mean the community like yourself who concern yourself with new player experience to actually offer a helping hand until DE can Flush the system out more, Does it?

[coarse jacinth]

I dont have time

I work 50 hrs a week

[urban shell]

There you go talking as if the game is in its Final Product form lol, Its in Pre-Alpha

[coarse jacinth]

I didnt say that

[urban shell]

Pre-Alpha is going to be bumpy, Period

[coarse jacinth]

Addressing its lacking balance doesnt assume its not pre alpha

[abstract condor]

True, doesn't mean the issues shouldn't be pointed out.

[coarse jacinth]

Talking about something isnt the same as demanding

[urban shell]

Its been a huge talking point since P13 dropped and pretty everything thats been said is just rehashing old statements

[coarse jacinth]

And you arent the moderator of what I get to resonate?

Good talk

[urban shell]

And pointing out the community can help the new players until DE can make it better is bad?
Good talk

[coarse jacinth]

I didnt say that I addressed that you heavy fisted at the community for what could likely be periods of inactivity

Many of us have jobs and its not our responsibility to pick up the slack

Its our responsibility to keep having jobs that can afford us to keep paying DE to make this game

Just saying I agree the community can help but I dont feel its a good contrasting point to talking about the attribute gate when its a factor that cant be controlled by the devs, in feedback meant for the devs to potentially read over and consider

[urban shell]

This is the patch notes though(?)

[coarse jacinth]

For example I havent veen offering T3s cause I can only play weekends

Yeah and many of us have been talking feedback here for months now including moderators why are you trying to gatekeep my commentary

[dire cradle]

+1 fey pact

[main turret]

Anyone with pacts virtues bug after Trading pacts?

[unreal coral]

Do U mean changing Pact?

[icy current]

I'm wondering if bow skill tree will get reworked? Since some skills are not useable with Avex, not to mention that some of them doesn't work (like hitting enemies in the legs) and overall while new bow does have a big damage, any other one with arrow hail is still better because hail makes it overpowered, with and without torrent. And I don't think it should be like this?

[normal apex]

The whole weapon skill system will be changed at one point. They've been working on it for a while now.

[abstract condor]

"My Leg!" Works just fine to me, just kinda rare.

[lyric pivot]

I found two bugs that are a bit annoying:

• Since the update, the Wevetseeds don't go beyond 2; it's stuck at that number in my inventory, and when I leave Nightfold, they're zero for use.

• The new bow looks great, but when Envoy pulls the arrow or charges the attack, the arrow is floating; it doesn't stay on the bow or in the player's hand.

[abstract condor]

https://discord.com/channels/998758139405029478/1438224825113120788
Though I believe both have been reported already, I'm sure about the bow's.

[full sphinx]

There are several threads in #1438224825113120788 about slots being removed upon reforging currently equipped weapons with blessed joineries. That is, you'll be prompted to buy a new slot when you try to retrieve your reforged weapon. Just ran into this bug myself and thought I should mention it here before anyone spends any arcs on slots they should already have like a few did.

[cosmic panther]

i got a slot removed too i messaged suppory maybe they gonna help

no luck yet tho been a week

[full sphinx]

That's a little concerning. I was surprised there was no official PSA about it after seeing all the threads.

[urban shell]

Could potentially be a reason for them to send out more arcs in P14

[main turret]

Yes, when I chance pact, anu virtue point got by skill, or attenuant desappear till I reset arts

[urban shell]

yeah its been here since atleast P12

[weak flicker]

Uhm, usually they come back after leaving and entering the arsenal menu again.

Although sometimes the loadout change reverts after leaving the nightfold, and you and up with gear that you’ve had prior to the change as you enter the world 😅

[full sphinx]

Correction: this can apparently happen any time you use a blessed joinery, not just with currently equipped weapons.

[austere sky]

i think that i had it happen instantly lol, i purchased a slot to get my avex from tuvalkane, then i had to purcharse another slot and i finally got my avex lol

[full sphinx]

Oof sorry to hear that. :\ Hope they refund everything once this gets fixed.

[austere sky]

yeah, honestly i was so exited to get my avex that i didnt realize at first, it happened so fast

then i noticed the arcs, wemt from 205 to 185 hahahahah

[cosmic panther]

this is what they told me

and i sent them every logfile and worst part is that I had 41 slots and they couldnt backtrack it

so im stuck with -1 slot

[full sphinx]

That sucks 😔

[abstract condor]

Was that before or after sending them the logs?
In theory they should also have a log of the Arcs you have, what you purchased and recived, and the ones you spent, that should have a discrepancy if the count was indeed wrong, might need to ask them to look at it that way.

[cosmic panther]

this reply from them were after the logs

[mellow finch]

What's the difference ?
The weapons in this game are no different from their counterparts, and they have no unique features.

[soft maple]

The difference is that it's a worse Marrow's Bane.

• Both are Cleavers
• Both deal Sharp Damage
• It has 15 Courage Requirement vs 25
• It has 3 Courage Attunement pips vs 4
• They both have 1/20 Smite Chance
• It deals 2 to 8 less Damage
  The Wiki doesn't have any Stats for the Falx's Thrown Damage, so it might have a unique "Special" Attack? If it does, then that's the diffrence. If not, it's just a weaker and easier to farm alternative, effectively an entry weapon and Envoy Rank fodder. It's also easier to fit in mixed Virtue Builds with its lower Courage Requirement, so I guess it has that going for it.

[cosmic panther]

atleast falx somewhat looks like a sword

marros bane looks like a lego piece or what

marrows*

[modern mason]

Nah, just a crude cleaver

[cosmic panther]

lego

crude cleaver

i see more similarities to a lego design

[urban shell]

That picture of the lego figure, Its holding a Mace, Not a cleaver. Marrows has the base structure of a cleaver but as exaggerated sawtooth cleaver for maximum damage potential. Think about swinging it into somebodies side and then just pulling it straight back

[soft maple]

this is a cleaver made to resemble the claws of a bear

[soft maple]

these are just some basic regular cleavers, I don't see what's "crude" about them

[soft maple]

these are a blade of the Uruk Hai from LotR movie and a mace

one could argue that the Marrow's Bane looks more like some mace rather than a cleaver, but the name says it all. Cleavers are used to crack bones open and get the marrow out, thus, Marrow's Bane

[inner mulch]

But the Uruk Hai blade is actually historically accurate. Those were used to pierce through the armor's plates like if using a warhammer or pickaxe

[regal blade]

If only you bothered to read that AI summary and realised these are normal cleavers from a brand named "Crude" rather than actual crude/rough crafted cleavers.

This is what I think about when I see the word "crude".

Much closer to what Marrow's Bane looks like, ofcourse there's still quite a bit of a difference in shape but that is, as others already said, because Marrow's is meant to resemble a claw.

If you need more examples, the ones in this image are quite similar in overall shape.

[ripe wing]

can't believe you looked up Crude and looked at the AI first, instead of normal translate apps???

also since Bromius was corrupted by Mendicant magicks, it could very well be that the Marrow's Bane was just slightly corrupted too XDD

[cosmic panther]

“ bothered to read AI summary” wow you oldheads are really arguing over pure nothingness

i didnt “bother” to read the AI summary, it comes up automatically on search

[grand mountain]

crude cleaver debacle of 2026

[regal blade]

And you're still missing the point entirely, that being that your search result had nothing to do with what rakkarak was talking about. You did a 2 seconds google search, took the first picture result and ran with it as gospel truth, completely ignoring the context around it.

[ripe wing]

Must be something in the history books 😂

[hybrid chasm]

brother you intentionally decontextualized what Rakarakk meant by "crude." You and I both know they meant the adjective, and yet you're arguing over the fact that it's a brand.

[grand mountain]

in other news, most sharks dont attend church

[austere sky]

in other news, there are many planes in the sea but not any boats in the sky

[grand mountain]

frig man