suggestion-discussion

[ivory quartz]

I mean this is a PVP game the point is to engage in PVP, The devs seem to believe that you should have to engage in and win at least one pvp fight to be able to make it out, and have been removing portals and changing the swarm to encourage that. It seems what you may actually be advocating for is a PVE mode. I would further point out that once you get experience you can just stomp through rooms getting the high priority loot real quick just vacuming up half the loot. The storm helps prevent most players from noticing how shallow the map design really is.

[graceful tangle]

To be fair, there could have been a legal reason to change the models and they might not have the option of changing them back

[pure summit]

It's a PVPVE game and that's what sets it apart from any other game ever made. The PVE portion with the progression. If you make it like any other Battle Royale, people will get bored real quick. The game is supposed to play like a Dungeons and Dragons fantasy game with the chance of PvP the more you go for high value treasures and loot that other players will be after.

Focusing on PvP is a big mistake for this game IMO, there should be a healthy balance, and I think it's better to be more PvE than PvP to be safe, then crank it up slowly if it's not popular and doesn't hold new players.

[lucid acorn]

another day bootin up dnd to find out ranger STILL HAS NOT BEEN NERFED FFS

[abstract swallow]

go ahead and explain how ranger needs to be nerfed

[ivory quartz]

Well I enjoy the PVE elements to the game, but they are the hardest to balance. For new players the PVE in this game is exceptionally brutal and you can easily die if you aggro the wrong mob, for experienced players the PVE is a joke and they can aggro three whole rooms and just kite them forever. I think Inferno is decently balanced, between the difficulty of mobs, and with the addition of the bosses like lich and Death Knight the game has really good PVE aspects as it is. But I believe it is the PVP the helps to hide the glaring flaws with the PVE and keep interest not the other way around.

[pure summit]

Which is why I think they should focus heavily on creating more PvE content to build out that side of the game:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492789/this-game-should-focus-on-aweome-pve-content-dont-be-another-battle-royale

[ivory quartz]

I doesnt honestly, but the devs have already decided to let reddit balance the game so fuck it. Lets just nerf Ranger and Rogue, then we can Nerf Wizard and Barb again, untill Fighter is the only class.

[jagged flicker]

ew it's not even a battle royale

[ivory quartz]

I mean I am all for more PVE content, everyone wants new maps and mobs, but that is probably the hardest to develop. Maybe a larger version of goblin caves that reuses the assests could be fun.

[jagged flicker]

buncha fortniters calling everything with a shrinking circle a battle royale.

[ivory quartz]

I mean it is a Battle Royale. It has the shrinking circle with limited extracts. Some people will have to die only half the lobby can actually make it out.

[pure summit]

Obviously it's not, but if they force PvP to a certain extent, it becomes a battle royale, since there's no time or point to do any of the PvE content. You just make builds that are only for PvP, no build diversity, no eploring, no looting, just fight fight fight die/portal.

I kills so much of the game's potential appeal.

[jagged flicker]

A battle royale, like the film the term comes from, is a killing game where only one person leaves.

The film didn't have shrinking circles but death zones on a huge island.

[dense compass]

as a new player i find it hard to enjoy the pve contend bc after killing like 5 things theres always like a rough lasthitting and it kills the joy for me

also people dont wanna queue up with new players so im forced through that over and over until i find a group that plays with me ig

[pure summit]

what do you mean by this, please elaborate

[summer crystal]

i said this yesterday; an alternative take on the dark swarm could expose us adventures to new and diverse encounters. My idea: the dungeon starts with all the sconce torches/roasters unlit and therefore the dungeon in complete darkness. You light and snuff torches as you carry on through your adventure, the darkness acting as the new swarm. To light torches, you must have a torch equipped. Ranged foes would have limited visibility, taking away their advantage at a distance. Rogues would have to consider the swarm damage while hiding in the dark. Also, much like when holding a lit item, they wouldn't be able to activate "Hide" whilst in an illuminated area.

[dense compass]

i kill a few enemies(ai) and am low or im still fighting an enemy and then somone just comes and last hits me

i feel like sitting on the ground for 5 mins recovering 1 hp in 3 secs just isnt it

[abstract swallow]

and then nerf fighter again, because the class having 1 build that takes thousands of gold to run isn't enough (not that the people complaining do anything but run shop kits in carebear queue)

[feral plinth]

if you're taking excessive damage to pve you need to practice that

[pure summit]

His point is more that after all that work he gets shafted by a player, and he doesn't want to sit for 120 seconds to heal.

[dense compass]

tbf ur right and i got better already but i sometimes just get wallhugged by a random infinite spiderpool while a mummy edges me till i die

[feral plinth]

thats why healing potions and bandages exist though

[pure summit]

You can't afford those starting out

[dense compass]

yeah but if ur a new player u cant afford more than like one or two potions and that only i u manage a good loot escape

[feral plinth]

well you aren't expected to just come in and stomp the game from the get go, the point is to curb your hp loss via pve so that when you pvp you arent low

[dense compass]

as a fighter u get one bandage and one recovery ability that heals back 50 percent heal ONCE a run after that if u dont find anything ur just dead

[pure summit]

I suggested to IronMace that the game should give more room to PvE, you can upvote it here:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492789/this-game-should-focus-on-aweome-pve-content-dont-be-another-battle-royale

Also a training grounds that can help you learn without too much PvP:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493055/training-grounds-mode-for-each-map

[summer crystal]

This is a symptom of the neglected merchant economy. The Collector is too strong currently; he rewards rare items with gold in a way that other merchant's don't.

[feral plinth]

my biggest suggestion is to take pve slower and get used to the map layouts. if you're not comfortable winning pve you're rarely going to win pvp

[pure summit]

@dense compass Are you playing Goblin Caves? I would suggest actually soloing in Crypts rather than Goblin Caves. Currently, Goblin Caves is much harder and you'll likely run into 3-4 people before extracting. The mob density is also way too high at the moment.

[feral plinth]

can't disagree more tbh. in crypts you're going to run into 3 mans that you'll just lose everything to, at least in GC you have the opportunity to fight 1v1

[dense compass]

thanks for the advice im gonna try, i started yesterday night i got like 2 extracts successfully done

[summer crystal]

if you agree that the game needs a loot rework and the collector needs to be nerfed, read my suggestion here: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491954/loot-system-rework-ver2

[dense compass]

after one good loot extract i had like 130 gold so prolly a good idea

[pure summit]

You can feel the difference. Try a new class you've never played before (to simulate being a new player) and play crypts solo, vs Goblin Caves solo. Notice how Goblin Caves you get spawn rushed half your games within 30 seconds, and how many fights you end up in.

In Crypts, you can avoid most fights.

[summer crystal]

I would make the suggestion to take sometime in the lobby between matches, on GC especially. Loading right back in after a demoralizing defeat will spill over into consequent runs

[pliant trellis]

Put a training dummy in the waiting room for hell to give us something to smack

[feral plinth]

avoiding fights isnt going to help anyone get better, it's a part of the game. GC is at least small enough and just a single map that allows you to get familiar with it quickly and the goblins dont have the varied attack patterns that some of the skeles do; not to mention there are limited ranged mobs, and those that do exist aren't positioned such that you need a ranged weapon to deal with

[dense compass]

i hate that skelleton that just kamikaze fireball oneshots u so much

[pure summit]

He honestly has a better chance at extracting on Crypts than GC, that's just my opinion, having played a bunch of solos recently. GC portals don't spawn fast enough.

[dense compass]

yeah gc portals take forever for real

im gonna try out crypst fighter and see where ill get

[pure summit]

Sounds good, just focus on avoiding other players and staying on the outer edge of the circle while you clear skeletons one by one

[feral plinth]

the biggest thing is to put time in and keep playing, you'll get the hang of the slower nature of pve until you get gear

[dense compass]

oki ill report back after

[summer crystal]

It isn't in my official suggestion, I do think they should consider fleshing out the "selling" feature in the Merchant's Hall to combat the bloated trading post. In a lot of these extraction games, the top tier players will carry tons of extra consumables in their pack with no equip penalty which provides them a utility not necessarily in line with the spirit of the game.

[arctic lagoon]

cobalt and ruby silver buffs should be the same amount, for the amount of work that goes into both https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493160/colbalt-and-rubysilver-armor-should-get-the-same-amount-of-stat-buffs

context: ruby gets 4 buffs chance while cobalt only gets 3 chance

[celest pecan]

was the wraith cheese fixed? when ducking and looking down its still hiting me

[pure summit]

Players need some room to learn the PvE before getting attacked by players. Imagine trying to learn how to play a board game while someone is shooting a bb gun at you. This is why maps need to be bigger, time increased, more portals, less players per lobby, or other changes to help new players culvtivate the skills they need.

I think there's actually more ranged mobs per scare inch on that map than crypts, goblin archer in almost every room, if not two, caster goblins who throw the orbs, centipede spits far range.

[white cliff]

How did everyone else do it?

If the game gives players no room to learn, it’s weird that the game has retention at all.

[pure summit]

Most players are from playtest 3 and 4, and they learned in an environement where everyone was freshly wiped, and also new to the game. Nobody was rushing spawns, moving around the map at light speed, and highly skilled in PvP.

Let me put it this way, being thrown into the fire works if everyone sucks and is freshly wiped. If the community passes a certain average level, you need to work to separate them from new players. IM realizes this now, so they've done the level 15 lobbies as a quick bandaid fix.

If PvP wasn't so forced, you can get away with throwin gthem in teh fire aswell.

[white cliff]

Yeah I suppose that’s fair honestly though those things where happening in the play tests. Obviously I’m not a new player, I don’t have that perspective. But IM and the community found it to be a problem so I suppose it is.

[white cliff]

Though a big draw, a big rush is the pvp.

[pure summit]

Increase the PvP in Inferno and Highroller, let Normals layer 1 be more PvE-oriented IMO

[abstract swallow]

Giving back the first floor to Crypts would do a lot to help how PvP is overrepresented (as would going back to 16 man Crypts with the old portals)
larger floor, less loot, more people
less incentive to fight because there's more risk of getting 3rd partied and less reward for taking their loot

[pure summit]

I feel like it used to still be a rush with less people per lobby (Playtest 3), I think people's dopamine gets used to the higher action and don't want to have a drop of that excitement. Over time I think people will adapt, and find joy in more PvE content, and still get excited or scared when they hear an enemy team approaching.

Like if this game never existed and it just launched today with half the lobby size, I feel like people wouldn't complain.

[white cliff]

I think claiming people will find joy in pve is a broad assumption certainly.

The main draw isn’t the simplistic pve.

[pure summit]

I always imagined it working like this:
Floor 1: Almost all PvE (~0-1 enemy encounters)
Floor 2: PvPvE (~1-3 enemy encounters)
Inferno: PvPvE + Bossing

If you want to take zero risk and just loot basic gear on 1st floor, you should be able to do that, but if you want to go deeper and get better loot, the risk of running into other greedy adventurers increases, etc. so it's a natural flow of when you get better you start choosing to fight over PvE objectives and loot.

[feral plinth]

I mean, they tried this with ruins->crypts and people HATED it

[pure summit]

That's cause literally nobody made it out alive to go down to crypts, if you remember. It was a death zone, they even say on the map now that it's a deathmatch basically.

[blissful birch]

you mean the blue crypts burning our eyes

[feral plinth]

blue crypts was bis

[dense compass]

so i have played like a bit of crypt and imo its way better bc of the ai not being so annoing bc u have more space for everything. i also find the skelletons to be way more chill to fight against but it is a bit annoying being killed by a whole party when ur solo.

[pure summit]

Yes, the only downside is you have to avoid teams, but it is much better for ai

[feral plinth]

there were literally RED stairs on the map to go down, people were just too pepega to figure it out

[abstract swallow]

blue crypts and ruins stairs remain two of my favorite parts of PT5
I still can't believe they had to rollback to the old crypts because people couldn't figure out the stairs mechanic

[feral plinth]

I agree, I loved ruins to crypts

[white cliff]

I agree, actually enjoyed ruins with crypts.

[dense compass]

so i think the gc needs to be more spacious and less over mobbed

[pure summit]

Haha, maybe they could reintroduce it in a way that works

[white cliff]

I wish duos was just crypt and inferno. I feel like ruins just isn’t fun to play.

[pure summit]

Yes, if GC was more like Crypts but for solo players, it would be perfect.

[dense compass]

Exactly

[white cliff]

I think the original plan was ruins crypt inferno with repopulation.

[feral plinth]

yup

[dense compass]

its way more fun already to play crypt over gc

[pure summit]

Awesome, glad you're having more fun!

[abstract swallow]

honestly, try solo/duoing Crypts
it's way more accessible than you think

[feral plinth]

the foliage makes ruins terrible for me

[dense compass]

i just met a trio and tried to walk away slowly while maintaining awkward eyecontact so i could hide behind a statue just so that the group egirl could dagger spam me to death
ps: love that for my solo butt

[pure summit]

lol, good times

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486846/add-classic-elf-girl-to-the-store

https://imgur.com/a/waqow4f

[ivory quartz]

The real problem with GC is the verticality of the map, the fact that each room has an above and below, makes it very difficult for players unfamilair with the map to navigate it and to find an extract.

[dense compass]

I second this

[ivory quartz]

I think that the claustrophobic nature the multi layered map design has is very fitting and even well designed, but when they made Solo mode they knew it was the casual playerbase that was asking for it and they were appealing too, so to make the solos map more difficult in terms of navigation and mob density, was just trolling those players.

[floral totem]

The game is not reporting hits people is not dieing after 4 hits this is not skill issue this is something bad going on

[jagged flicker]

People unfamiliar with a map SHOULD find it difficult.

[ivory quartz]

I agree, it is actually part of the charm of the new player experience. But because of how the storm exists and closes in this game a vertical map with multiple layers is far more difficult to play than a wide horizontal map like ruins or crypts. Because sometimes the storm can close over the passageways that lead up, and without the knowledge of how best to navigate the upper and lower floors you will most likely get lost in the storm or simply die unable to find a portal when they are all above you. I think it is cruel to add that added lvl of difficulty for the players that are the worst. (I believe solo players and those that advocate for solo dungeons are casuals)

[jagged flicker]

I don't find winding caves cruel. An adventurer tip is to strive for height when you can.

In general, it is easier to rotate down than up. In any game. Strive for height, because time is a resource. But new players getting lost and dying is unavoidable, and normal.

[ivory quartz]

No you are spot on, maintaining height in GC is how you win fights and extract.

[stark sonnet]

yes 16 man lobbies should be a thing again the gear disparity + non stop pvp has kind of gotten ridiculous. Theres so much of it you cant even loot after your fights because the circle closes too fast

[drowsy grotto]

Is there a single argument against making it so we don't collide with mummy spiders, not only is it buggy (haha) as hell but it's simply just annoying to deal with.

[stark sonnet]

getting pinned in a corner on top of a spider glitching around is infuriating

[drowsy grotto]

Exactly, literally you can't hit them and in fights someone can run through a mill of spiders and then you'd get stuck because of the weirdly big collision box.

[stark sonnet]

they dont even drop loot so dumb

[drowsy grotto]

By far the most unfun enemy in the game to deal with, even worse then spear skellies.

Most annoying and simply unfun mobs to deal with:

1. Mummy spiders
2. Bolas goblins
3. Spear skeletons
   the first two need changes imo but the spear skeleton is where you run into decently fun mobs to deal with.,

[arctic lagoon]

why do mummy spiders spawn when i go to smack it, its perfectly timed also bolas goblins, have waaaay to much of a firerate and the projectile is hard to see

[drowsy grotto]

I think the main issue with bolas is that it has mix ups, I don't want one second for him to chuck a rock at me in 3 seconds then next time he does it in 1/3 of that

[vale pivot]

Ban every whiner from Gen Chat

[somber wind]

I don't mind the spiders, spear skeletons are counterable for sure you just need to learn it they are hella annoying though. I personally dislike how accurate Crossbow Skeletons are, it reminds me of pre-nerf Skeleton Bowmen I would like them to be SLIGHTLY less headtracking but I could live with it if they didn't; Bolas piss me off though.

[unique locust]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488817/weapon-on-weapon-collision go vote if you agree

[ornate spade]

Anyone thinks a no pre gear setup map is good?

[main turret]

Not a fan of the proposed weapon collision. The game already has enough sh*t I can get my weapon stuck swinging on. I dont need more stuff to collide with. Hit boxes are already so so in this game as it is, i doubt they’d find a smooth way to add it to the game.

[vague shell]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493168/change-the-difference-between-bad-and-good-gear

What do you guys think about this? I think this could be genuenly good thing

[summer cedar]

when are we going to talk about war maul? it needs to be tuned down..

[pine sapphire]

A firing range, or some sort of training area where we can test out weapons and spells to practice that's not in game.

[gilded silo]

i like this, or even a Gear Tier map... tired of getting killed in the normal crypts trying to get some gold just to get killed by a sweaty decked out group that doesnt even loot me

[glacial moon]

A item which can reroll attributes, before getting destroyed. We kinda need this

[solemn needle]

for only 1.99 per roll? Nice

[half grove]

i think either bosses or high roller should have a key or gem something like that not something too rare but it would help with boss farming a little

[pure summit]

Exactly right, a lot of the game's issues with gear and skill imbalances would be greatly improved by reducing PvP and making PvP more of a CHOICE, rather than a necessity.

Want to fight over a golden chest or miniboss zone? Go for it, but if you want to play it safe and PvE up some gear before you start swinging, you should have that option and be able to extract without fighting. Low reward = Low risk

[stark sonnet]

This has become way too common, they really made it worse with the matchmaking changes something needs adjusting

[keen jacinth]

Nerf wizards before they ruin this game

[fathom bolt]

Ranger player

[keen jacinth]

I play everyclass besides rogue and wizard

[scarlet creek]

I think that armor rating should be buffed at the low end and nerfed a bit more at the high end. Make it so around 60 or 70 armor rating you get around 25-30% physical damage reduction. And have around 150-200 be the new 50% point and have anything higher than that be insanely hard to achieve. Buffing the low end would make people have more of a chance and take less damage. It also gives a reason to wear armor as some classes because usually it's better to just not wear armor since it doesn't give enough of an advantage and weapons scale faster than armor.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493226/buff-armor-rating-at-the-lowend-and-nerf-the-highend

[indigo jungle]

If caught teaming in GC should be an automatic 1 day ban then increased the more it happens

[white cliff]

Nightmare Marauders
Nightmare Mages
Nightmare Zombies

Insane health, super fast
Rapid fire, fire balls that last forever
Two poison cloud spam on a 20 second delay basically guarantees four clouds go off.

[stark sonnet]

Do something about these hacks that are really cheap to get https://youtu.be/aHlnCkqh3-E?si=HgT6BdrS9ZbjdZMG

[elfin vigil]

Bro ranger counters wiz tf are u on ?

[rough falcon]

I wish the game would include the shields and weapons' stats onto the detailed info page. Right now they only include the armor and jewels.

[tiny wharf]

Nerf Wizard and Cleric buffs 10 games in a row now where someone is running Barb Cleric Wizard and Cleric and Wizard just buff Barb and stay away from the fight while the Barb runs at you with a horsemans axe

[zealous bison]

Please change payment companies xsolla is really bad. I have never had as much trouble buying a game as I did with them.

[dusty matrix]

Please add highrollers on the twos map!

[plush haven]

you mean ruins or duos right? never heard someone call it a twos map/game mode haha

[polar remnant]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493240/distinguishable-rarity-of-items

[plush haven]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/471284/rotate-items

[small furnace]

I'm new to the game with early access, how I did it was get recommended a video of how to kite every single mob in the game. Definitely don't regret it, pve is easy to deal with ever since.

[undone lake]

Please make a game mode that doesn't allow anything to be brought in. No gear, no heals, nothing. This could balance the pub stompers rolling through new and less geared players. At the very least give it a test and should be easy to implement and give a try

[feral plinth]

you're already playing against people level restricted and trade restricted, if you're still getting pubstomped by people it likely isnt gear

[polar remnant]

so you're saying add battle royale to the game

[tranquil pine]

honestly I've ran into players in goblins cave pre-15 loaded with +3all gear. There's still ways to abuse the system. having a game mode that forces everyone to start off at the same point, isn't a terrible idea, My main concern would be splitting the player base more, and what it could do to the game moving forward, Also what is the reward and how is it implemented for playing this battle royale mode. just some thoughts.

[toxic pulsar]

Buff ranger inventory space, I can't hold all of this gold and gear even at lv13

[heavy osprey]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493260/trade-post i made suggestion about trade post what u guys think about it?

[vernal hedge]

100% also characters that were 10-14 before the update and had trade can still trade and easily get gear into under 15 lobbies.
and im so happy that more people are bringing up the downside of adding multiple queues(HR this, hr that, solo/duo/trio everything) but like, just from the pre 15 lobbies I have add for the first time crypts start without a full lobby...on EU

[real trellis]

My suggestion for discouraging lowroller pubstomping without implementing mmr or gbmm. This will not stop people who just want to pubstomp but it will put a price on it while simultaneously incentivising running highroller instead: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491011/if-people-want-to-play-on-ultraeasymode-they-should-get-ultraeasymode-quality-re

[vernal hedge]

bruh wtf is that announcment
we are changing the risk-reward of high roller, so we tripple the entry fee? wtf how out of touch can you be xD

[heavy osprey]

how many players now can attend high rollers? they made lobbies smaller? or larger?

[vernal hedge]

smaller, im guessing they are trying to make it more pve focused and so in theory there more loot in the map per player but this seems like such a stupid change, if new players werent paying 50g they sure as fuck wont pay 150g lol

[karmic birch]

If they want to incentivize HR they should have a 50g NAKED only lobby where you pay 50g and can only participate with the base items that cannot be sold to store.

[vernal hedge]

proble is even less people are gonna play it now which in turn makes it so even more lobster come to normals

[karmic birch]

Mauraders has something similar called Raider and it's very popular.

[heavy osprey]

i think IT CAN do the oposite i will surely try out HC now with less ppl, but never played before ofc it;s my opinion only

[vernal hedge]

without seeing the full patch notes i very much doubt this will make more people play it, because I sure as fuck dont see a point to play a way riskier more time consuming mode to make 100- 150g a run when I can do the same shit playing normals

[small furnace]

Lowering the players definitely means less risk, but holy crap that price hike... It really isn't worth it with the gear you find in highroller. Thankfully they said they're doing more changes so this isn't just it'll be but yeah this... a halfway good start? The fee is really ridiculous though.

[civic zodiac]

its kinda paid back with average loot quality increase. might increase gold value and good items also

[vernal hedge]

the fee is completly stupid unless theyve doubled the loot on map or significantly culled chance for grey/whites, and hopefully they fuckd bards luck because otherwise the only thing we are seeing is bard comps to get their fee money back lmao

[real trellis]

If they hike up the price that much then the only people doing HR are going to be the most geared out of their mind and coordinated players who will rush the rest of the lobby then go and farm the inferno boss. There is very little incentive for players who have never gone into HR to try it now.

[glacial moon]

Give us item which is destroyed after one use to re-Roll a items attributes for 1$

[vernal hedge]

get out of here with you p2w garbage LOL, this aint some korean game... oh wait

[real trellis]

I think you're looking for a Nexon game, we don't do that shit here

[karmic birch]

lol

[civic zodiac]

honestly they should add a lvl 20 map with more complex bosses like dragons etc with more chances to unique/legendary. so ppl bringing their chad gear just to eventually get killed in a easy naked lobby and lose it for low profit look pretty sad and will even mostly get targeted for their loot instead of being feared like now.

[lone crescent]

High roller change for goblin caves is good, map is so small that you don't have time to heal before the next time

[civic zodiac]

i hate goblin cave. narrow passages with floor design is really not my style i do solo in crypt instead. should have a better designer solo map for starters tbh.

[lone crescent]

I'm done taking any kind of decent gear in normals, i died fighting 4 people in a row without time to heal

[civic zodiac]

ruins as a rogue feelsbetter

[elfin vigil]

know this sounds crazy but what better time than an EA to try this ?

Suggestion to remove trading here
READ TILL THE END.
It requires well fleshed out merchant system.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491403/trading-system-complete-change

[storm fulcrum]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493277/feedback-on-report -> Feedback on report

[lone crescent]

Am i the only one who likes trading?

Gear is unbalanced and that's a fact, that's the real issue, not trading in general

[real trellis]

My main gripe with GC is how annoying it can be to find a portal because there are multiple levels but very few ways to change floors

[civic zodiac]

i am for removing trading. its an open door to gold selling and p2w in a game like this cause situation like we have. superchar in low level lobbie and full purple team constantly in normal game

[south tendon]

True lol

[south tendon]

Crybaby💀💀💀💀

[lone crescent]

Gold sellers will always find a way

[real trellis]

Enjoy getting 12 gold from vendoring that godrolled purple you found because it wasn't for your class. Enjoy gold being essentially worthless. Enjoy trying to find those armors and weapons that are never sold by vendors.

[civic zodiac]

how is that crybaby? i am a succesfull player i dont need gold seller in my life to get any better

[gleaming garnet]

Removing trading is a good way to kill the game, for reasons that Dousiq just stated.

[vernal hedge]

but that's more like scav run, not eng game content that you are paying to access, your better off calling it labs from tarkov

[civic zodiac]

tbh idrc since most of gold buyers just endup donating their gear to good players and make item with good stats price skyrocket.

[real trellis]

If they remove trading then gold becomes nearly worthless which means players are just going to stock up insane amounts of heals and bring 15 heal pots, 15 bandies, and 10 prot potions to every raid in place of gear

[south tendon]

Read what @real trellis said, i never said your sucessfull or unsuccessful but removing trading is bad rn

[gleaming garnet]

I would be interested in a less gold valued economy and more of an item for item based one though. Gold the best way i can describe it is, it feels very arbitrary how its valued since dupes happen and merchants print gold off trinkets. Playing some other games where currency is player made i.e. through items being valued by the community made trading a lot more interesting for me. It also allowed for cool videos purely on trade based on what people valued.

[south tendon]

Whatthehell is your profile picture

[limber matrix]

I like that idea. Not sure how it would look in practice though

[real trellis]

Ideally I would like a system like Phantasy Star Online's player market where players just collectively decided that Photon Drops, instead of the "gold" currency of the game, would be the standard trade currency. We kind of have that in the form of keys but because their value varies so much it is very confusing to keep track of.

[vernal hedge]

can you give an example?

[abstract swallow]

Rubysilver has kinda become exactly that, it's been the most efficient way to store.value since PT5

[gleaming garnet]

Well one example would be, in the other game i mentioned, theres been plenty of videos of something in terms of DaD of a 30 gold item persay to thousand+ from bartering up.

Without it mainly being gold you could barter a ranger item to a ranger and they would trade you something that isn't their class i.e. a warlock item and you would trade for it. and since in this hypothetical its not gold driven, they can't just sell it on the trade channel for an arbitrary amount, they would have to trade item for item.

[real trellis]

True, but then if buying rubysilver with gold becomes unavailable, the market power shifts disproportionately to the classes that are good at mining

[low osprey]

If were paying more for high roller can the loot be actually good? Im tired of getting white loot

[civic zodiac]

way better

[real trellis]

If you're gonna pay for HR you might as well shell out an extra 50 for a luck pot

[low osprey]

I get that but white gear is still kinda dumb for high roller

[gleaming garnet]

The player made currency would be typically something with a stable static value. Perhaps in this game it would be calculated in something every class needs and is fairly easy to get but still has value. Campfires(?) Healing items, Probably potions of luck is what I would guess it would eventually turn into. something of the sort.

[vernal hedge]

I don't see where the other game you mention is, but we already have that essentially, prices are arbitary and differ from player to player, theres even been people already makes series on trading up to god sets
and we have ruby and cobalt used has secondary currencies

[gleaming garnet]

Ahh, Sorry I thought you meant give an example of the system. One that immediately comes to mind is a permadeath game called Realm Of the Mad gods. Its a PVE game though. think bullet hell easy to die kinda extraction esque.

[real trellis]

Luck pots as trade currency would be interesting but the vendor only sells one at a time and you don't save space when it comes to gold pouches taking up 1 slot as well

[vernal hedge]

ive played realm, was a really fun game but couldnt get into it has I had no idea where to look to learn

[ripe turtle]

Alright since the Bard is getting nerfs once again (especially for recovery), I have made this new bard song suggestion. Please leave a vote!

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490509/hippocratic-salvation-bards-new-song-suggestion

[gleaming garnet]

Well yeah but an item bartering based economy would exist without gold pouches. its not really about saving space imo, its more about the fact that people just infinitely farm gold through trinkets in normals and just buy gear is very boring if you think about the extraction aspect of the game. So you just naked run a few dozen times until you get top items pulling 100-200 at a time?

It would incentivize actually getting good gear from HR yourself since you would need to have items of high value to barter with others for your classes' gear. No1 is trading 10 greens for a purple most likely

[real trellis]

The replacement for currency would need to fit several criteria to be usable.
It needs to be a static item that cannot roll stats or be a different rarity. It needs to be an item that drops in every dungeon from almost any mob, any chest, barrel, or pot, and it needs to stack significantly. It needs to be something that is directly useful for all classes so that some of them are consumed instead of all of them being hoarded. It needs to be rare enough to be valuable but prolific enough to be reliable.

[gleaming garnet]

Yeah its beginning learning curve is very hard. Honestly I just learned through me and a friend playing, grinding stats slowly, the youtube community has very good guides though. its in game functionality is what makes it suffer a bit

[vernal hedge]

What you want @gleaming garnet might eventually come in some form once we get quest and more developed traders with barters and such

[gleaming garnet]

Honestly though, an item for item trading system rather than gold would fix the whole, no1 is doing HR situation. Since you can't just farm lowbies for gold in ultra sets for gold a bit a time to fund your sets.

The people actually playing HR and consistently getting purps + jewlery aren't trading for your 200 greens you are farming off norms with.

[vernal hedge]

And if we ever get for example a daily board with quests like “deliver 3 wolf fangs” I think a lot of these items would have more stable price and maybe be used as another currency

Also forgot to mention crafting and other system they may add like enchanting

[gleaming garnet]

That would be a good way, quest items would probably work as a stable currency if the rewards were something like, being able to craft/get an item gacha

[real trellis]

Exactly. A randomized reward for turning in X mimic tongues would keep mimic tongues valuable.

[gleaming garnet]

that being said, new changes imo aren't the priority when some people have beast PC's but their computer literally turns itself off when playing this game for no reason https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/485818/optimize-game-performance

[vernal hedge]

An improved goblin merchant but instead of gold he requires barter item but increases base rarity to a green could be a cool way to go about it

[drifting oar]

i just want a mode where there is no trading and i find everything myself, but i also like the idea of having a character that i build up through trading as well. i want both

[tall shuttle]

Make all Healing items unique. You can only equip one Healing Potion, one Bandage and so on. Then increase slightly the drop rate of Healing Items. Rewarding actual PvE. This would counter the horrible "let's go in with maxed out gear and hunt every team".

Also you shouldn't be able to outheal the zone. Sure it's fine to do it for a short time to get back into the circle, but chilling the whole game outside the zone shouldn't be possible. Maybe give players outside the circle a debuff with "-10% Damage, -5% Speed" which stacks every 10 seconds.

Add diminishing return on Movespeed and Healing attributes on gear, so you can't stack them too much. Agility classes should be faster than Strength classes, period. And an old Wizard with a Staff shouldn't be able to run like Usain Bolt.

[void remnant]

maybe increase lvls for HR and trade after a wipe now you got player who geared just rocking lobbies just because its not their main

[daring python]

if they make the circle do any more damage the entire game will turn into camping other players on edge of circle

[urban tapir]

An idea for HR dungeons. Make entrance fee 20 gold and for anyone that kills someone they get that 20 gold entrance fee added if they make it out. If they killed 2 people that's 40 gold but if someone kills them they take over that gold amount at the end and so on. So at the end someone might make an extra 60 gold. Otherwise the money is just GONE

[karmic birch]

I feel like the main barrier to entry, at least for most people, is gear. The inefficient trade system makes it difficult to buy an entire kit in a short amount of time, unless you don't care about gold. Since they are investing in the entry fee they feel like they need to protect that investment with at least some gear, and if they die repeatedly, while learning the harder environment, it discourages them.

If everyone came in naked, it would put everyone on an equal playing field and the investment would be lower. Additionally, players could die multiple times in a row without having to hit the trade hall for another huge time sink before jumping back in.

[urban tapir]

I also think Traders should only MATCHMAKE with fellow Traders. I make a new level 1 and get wrecked by a level 13 in full magic dmg gear. You can't even become a trader till way later so low levels are at a big disadvantage.

[glacial sphinx]

this whole new trend of blaming trade for everything is kinda weird. Legit trade is important to making things feel valuable. Gear granting too much power is the main issue many are struggling with

[karmic birch]

I agree that trade and chase items are important to the game. I even think they should put the nerfed attributes back in the game but make them ultra rare.

Trade is important, but the current system is... Well I'll just say that if they made the trade channels in their discord, it would be leagues better then the current setup.

I was just trying to problem solve a way to make people more comfortable joining HR.

[abstract swallow]

Yeah, IM straight up said they have to tackle stat stacking and high-end gear scaling in the most recent QnA but everyone is obsessed with some immediate solution

[surreal quail]

you cant even trade until you are lvl 15 though, so this is technically already a thing

[void remnant]

@buoyant mortar this mans thinks will increase magic def so agree as you will

[karmic birch]

A trader could join a game with non traders and drop gear for them

[void remnant]

false

[surreal quail]

that meand having a player below lvl 15 join the lvl 15+ groups, still a risk and still technically not "traders" in the actual sense, no need to split it even further imo

[karmic birch]

false

[void remnant]

@karmic birchyes because the objective still needs to be 15 no matter the player

[glacial sphinx]

The issue with the gearing system is the poor position of middle tier sets.

Queuing naked or with one or two greys is easy and cost efficient since you can do most PVE, do well against other greys and lose little if you die. Acquiring an expensive strong set is fairly easy and efficient since you'll stomp everyone.

But getting a middle tier set is very inefficient cause you'll lose a lot on trade fees and you'll likely still die to people with good gear so the value isn't great.

Imo the vendors need to offer more greens and slightly cheaper so that middle level is more approachable. Greens should also vendor for a bit more so that trade is mostly for higher level items.

[surreal quail]

the current split of lvl 1-14 andd lvl 15+ is sufficient, the trade is not unlocked before lvl 15, and lvl 15 wont enter the same matches unless you queue with a lvl 15+ yourself

[karmic birch]

Dude, a lvl 15 can join a game with a lvl 1 and drop a full kit for them. They make it out and then the lvl 1 plays in the low level lobby

[buoyant mortar]

This dude doesn’t even understand English LMAO I said will increases magic dmg like idk how you though I said will increases defense when I was TELLING YOU I HAD ALL PURP GEAR INCREASING WILL FOR DMG if you don’t understand English don’t type, dude kept saying “huh” “what” when I gave him LITERAL specs and he was still mind blown by what I was saying

[void remnant]

@glacial sphinx doesnt fix how hacker where prime when hr was expensive compared to free now what we gonna get is super duper gear players in norms to avoid hackers without and objecter answer how hacking was fixed? yes?

[surreal quail]

you can do the same by killing lvl 15+ people when you queue up for those as a lvl 1, so what, not like you can force people to not queue together when one isnt 15

[buoyant mortar]

Don’t try to lie and hide lil boy after all no way a grown man acts the way you do

[karmic birch]

I was trying to explain to the guy who said it's impossible to gear a non trader without access to the trading post

[void remnant]

@karmic birchi mean if they skilled enough that kinda the point why they nerfed all weps so grays can outplay higher tiers but it legit still makes its dumb hard

[buoyant mortar]

Don’t listen to anything he says he thought I was saying will increases defense like a bot, literally tells you what the stuff does in game yet you still miss understood🗿

[void remnant]

@karmic birchdo you not read the patch notes?

[buoyant mortar]

Also don’t say anything too fast or with big words he blocks you bc he gets confused

[void remnant]

@buoyant mortarits okay this man thinks will is a primary factor in magic resist compared to magic dmg ngl

[buoyant mortar]

This dude never got purp gear and is complaining abt a SMALL fee LMAO you can’t even get into HR bc you are flat broke, all gear with +3 attributes and will yet he still doesn’t comprehend what a build is 😭 he’s never even seen +3 anyways so he’s just a bot

I told him the whole build his brain blew up

[void remnant]

@buoyant mortarnever said that and i can copy pasta chat. but what i can show is that you disagree that barb is the most magic resist charact which is crazy

[buoyant mortar]

He’s able to be counter goofy that’s what I was saying you clearly never run HR since your still complaining abt the fee to get in to them when it’s not an issue that’s how our convo started but the little child was just too upset at losing his only set of gear

[void remnant]

@buoyant mortarso please live in your delusions

[buoyant mortar]

If you can’t counter a barb just play him if you can’t counter any character in this game it is quite literally a SKILL ISSUE that simple every character can be built to be a power house but i alr know that you have no clue what those builds consist of

[void remnant]

@buoyant mortarthat stupid af because all characters have a hard counter

[buoyant mortar]

You were freaking out abt barbs magic resistance when it’s able to be countered, ranger cleric rogue or fighter beats any comp

[void remnant]

@buoyant mortarthat like playing SC or Clash Royal and saying everything fair ngl

@buoyant mortarWhen tf did i say any character was broken please show me

@buoyant mortar are you drunk or high?

[buoyant mortar]

No but you def upset asf

[void remnant]

@buoyant mortari did not i elaborated that it can counter the clerics strike ability

[buoyant mortar]

No shit you threw a tantrum lmao you really can’t read I told you I was doing the math to figure out the dmg of the holy strike to calculate the will I had but you were thinking I was talking abt will = defense???? Like how do you get that mixed up

[void remnant]

@buoyant mortarthen you randomly elaborated about hp and i was like wtf hp got to do with any of this

[buoyant mortar]

I went on abt the hp bc the hp is very important to know since only 4 holy strikes killed a barb as a full purp kit cleric but you wouldn’t of known I elaborated further bc well you threw a tantrum and block anyone you don’t understand

[void remnant]

i said barb are anti magic and you said figher have hella dmg reduction but the topic was how to counter magic

[tribal knot]

Curse of pain to be a projectile please

[buoyant mortar]

Fighter has the most phy dmg reduction I don’t think you realize that we weren’t just talking abt one thing I kept including others phy protections and defenses, it’s your own fault for being SO closed minded to any kind of conversation #

[void remnant]

and here is the post barbs are anti magic not dmg
MostSlump — Today at 5:01 AM
Like Ik you can build hella dmg reductions as a barb but as full grey? Nah
DeezMutz — Today at 5:01 AM
and mauls do -30% armor
so that math not mathing
MostSlump — Today at 5:01 AM
That’s cleric he has the highest magic resistance out of anyone barbs has highest phy resistance out of anyone
DeezMutz — Today at 5:01 AM
no
false
fighter does
barb is actually magic
legit has a skill for it
MostSlump — Today at 5:02 AM
Cleric has 31 will which gives him an insane amount of base resistance
Well yeah perks are always going to buff characters warlock has holy resistance
DeezMutz — Today at 5:02 AM
but barb armor set legit should all of magic reduction
and has iron will as a perk

@buoyant mortarim done that wasnt the TOPIC DO YOU UNDERSTAND a topic?

your rhetoric is butt dookie because you cant understand a base

[buoyant mortar]

And as you can see we were talking abt a wide range of things not only will and magic resistance so ranting abt cheaters was the topic at first then you ranted abt other things you are simply mad

[void remnant]

this is like saying a verb is and adjactive at this point

[tribal knot]

Everyones a bloody scholar

[buoyant mortar]

WHAT ARE YOU ON ABT YOU LITERALLY WERE PURELY RANTING simply a skill issue

Seems like mutz can’t do HR bc it’s too expensive can’t do pubs bc of hacker OH NO like dude quit complaining abt an early access game

You say you we’re discussing a topic but you were literally just crying about it

[ornate spade]

Should rogues have charges on invisibility like 7-10 per game on solo/duo and 15-18 on crypts

[tribal knot]

why give them MORE

[buoyant mortar]

What’s going on? Give who more of what?

[tribal knot]

Steps for rouges on crypts 15 to 18 he said

[buoyant mortar]

HOLY SHIT NO they have 10 rn

[tribal knot]

well i dont know how many CHARGES they already have but sounds to me they dont need more anyway

[buoyant mortar]

So rogues have 10 steps in invis and have a perk that makes the steps quieter and outside of invis makes them 15% faster if they run pure invis perks you prob won’t live sadly

If rogues catch u while invis they mostly win unless they have no armor or no hp. But all it takes for rogues is some +3 attributes then they are terrifying but that goes for everyone with gear

Only thing rogues need is a slight perk rework by like 10% not a lot bc they are alr a glass cannon

[tribal knot]

im already on the boat wanting the rouges Worked on as they are a menace

[buoyant mortar]

I’m with you I do think they need a slight nerf but then again the issue with nerfing him is that someone paid a lot of money for that character to be the way they are, I feel like the devs would have to go over the changes with that said person (it’s a hefty amount they paid)

[twilit anvil]

Maybe in high roller just require people to have the 150g in inventory and then they get to bring it in, escaping = you keep your gold and killing = gauranteed 150g

[vernal hedge]

was one of the kickstart things for someone to desing a class?

[vernal hedge]

i'd hope not, that remove a pretty decent gold sink from the game, make rewards there more interesting instead of making it a pvp casino

[abstract swallow]

I'm just glad that they're actually addressing the whole "running HR at minimum risk for maximum reward" that lead to every lobby being full of 6+ naked rogues

[drowsy grotto]

Really? nightmare monsters are hard? Nightmare monsters are meant to be annoying, the gear they drop is better and should require more effort to kill + you'd only really find one of them in a horde and some of them are pretty unique like the shield that reverses damage.

[eager ridge]

dont slow the game's pace down any more, this is what tarkov devs did and it killed the game from what it used to be

[vernal hedge]

but that's in part because tarkov was never meant to be the way it was, we always knew there was gonna be plenty of realism inspired mechanics that would slow the game down(and more to come)

[raven wind]

Don’t need skill if you rat a few normal cave runs and then buy a set of bis gear

[daring trail]

Is anyone actually interested in trying HR when it's now 3x the entrance cost?! Wtf is this announcement

[sharp edge]

I'm curious lads if the rat can fetch some opinions.

I'm on the side where I don't like the mechanics of the trade system. But I do understand why people like it, and it is a neat thing to have.

So I'm curious how would you lads feel if they got rid of trading with gold and only allowed trading equipment for other pieces of equipment or items.

It'd change it to more of a barter economy and would eliminate any of the lazier gold sellers at least in theory

[granite moon]

I think it would work great

[short heath]

I still run HR.

I will literally always run HR if I have the gold to afford running it.

[daring trail]

I'm curious if anyone who wasn't already running it, is now interested.

Based off the announcement it seems like they wanted to get more people in HR

[short heath]

There is legit no reason not to with the increased challenge and rewards. The people who don't run HR are abusive people who don't care about anything but rolling over lobbies/new players/people with worse gear than them.

[buoyant zodiac]

Less player in, i'm more interested in even if it cost 100/150

[short heath]

They all have gear fear. Can't lose their precious purples.

[vernal hedge]

yah not at all, it's the complete opposite of what i'd hope they did lol
im still holding out for patch notes have a better idea at what else they are changing but as is now:
Higher entry cost results will likely lead so that people bring some more gear in order to defend themselfs and the 150g fee . so you have less players but more geared players in a lobby.
unless they massively increased the loot but making greys impossible to get in HR or something I don't see why they even would try this, they should understand that their community is already risk averse, so increasing the cost of it won't have any new players thinking that "yah that's something that I wanna try"

[short heath]

Yes, they are "risk averse", aka pathetic and scared of losing pixels in a video game.

[vernal hedge]

incredibly out of touch

[short heath]

Whatever you gotta think to get yourself to sleep at night.

I still do it, and as I said, there is no reason not to - the potential for better equipment and larger overall hauls coming out from a run will always exist from HR over that of no-ante.

[proven vortex]

Even if you get a 300g haul, you spent 150g, so you only made 150g. You can make 150g or more from a low roller run with no risk.

[granite plinth]

Nerf the rogues already, they need a big big nerf.

[daring trail]

I do think there is too much gear fear, but making HR even more expensive hurts the player count in HR even more.

@short heath yeah loot is better, but now with 150g entrance fee the profits are significantly less.

You can make the same profit from normals and not have nearly as much risk

This whole 150g entrance fee also doesn't stop rogues from just going in naked 🤣🤣 such a sad day for HR

[real trellis]

Torches need to be removed from the drop pool for chests and enemies

[short heath]

You absolutely cannot make the same profit from no-ante runs as you can in HR runs.

[vernal hedge]

and?
my point isn't that, my point is that this pushes new players away from the game mode,and not just new players but also the full ruby bois that already only play normal will just keep doing it and there will likely be more of them
if you don't know the map, how to fight nightmare mobs, etc, why would you risk your gear+150g for a chance at a btter haul while also considerably more risky, why would you do it if normals+hell give you enough(in their mentality)
for people that are already familiar with HR and play it regardless it doesnt matter, it's like making labs keycards more expensive in tarkov, idc because i know ill still be printing money but id like for the content to also be reachable by others

[daring trail]

If we are talking about an average run, we definitely can. With 150g ante??

An average run of HR will.get you 300g, maybe 400g. Minus your 150 and gg you've made the same you can get out of a normal.

[short heath]

If you're only averaging 300-400g per run, you're bad.

[daring trail]

I mean yeah, on a high end game youll get 600 in sellable, maybe in a different game you'll get some gear to sell.

But even you know you aren't getting 600g a run.

It's like talking to the kid who thinks he's the coolest at recess 🤣

[short heath]

Dude you kill one team, your average is already well over 600g.

[real trellis]

making over 600 a run basically presupposes that you're going to run into another team with gear good enough to sell but not good enough to beat you

[urban ibex]

Can we talk about chain lightning being casted on corpses?

[short heath]

Amazing what happens when you go into a pvpve game and you win at the pvp portion, isn't it?

[wooden meadow]

sure, no one is stopping you. 🙂

[vernal hedge]

pretty cool interaction, spell can probably use a dmg nerf but I wouldn't wanna see that trick leave

[short heath]

Too many people have gear fear and avoid fighting at all costs, then complain that the cost-risk-reward ratio for HR is bad. Hilarious. Learn pvp. Stop going in naked and expecting 600g runs.

[real trellis]

You're giving up 1 chain bounce for the ability to send it around a corner, which is a great trade and makes the spell worth using I think

[meager jasper]

The whole point of this game is that you're supposed to pick and choose fights and it isn't supposed to be strictly a pvp game. If being a cautious rat isn't viable for the map I don't think it has a real place as an option.

[short heath]

Imagine thinking that ratting should be supported and encouraged. Lul. Devs even said they want less of it happening.

[vernal hedge]

shouldnt be supported and encouraged but its 100% a playstyle

[urban ibex]

I agree that the interaction is cool, the tesla barb is a great example, I would like for it not to 2 tap a whole team by just aiming at a zombie corspe on the ground though

[granite latch]

What's ratting?

[meager jasper]

Completely blinkered cherry-picking. This is a playstyle that is in the game because they allow it. Balancing it is what they want, not removing it.

Rogues and Rangers are built around that play-style, and you know it.

[vernal hedge]

yah exactly, but seing it 2 shot a fully geared team shouldnt be possible even with really good gear, it leaves basically no space for counterplay

[fair gyro]

If the devs were against ratting rogue would already be removed from@the game

[short heath]

Devs legit said they don't want naked runs to happen anymore. They ACTUALLY said that ratting is not what they want their game to be like.

[meager jasper]

No, they want less naked runs in HR because it reduces the pvp gains for everyone else there. That's not the same thing as none.

[vernal hedge]

they also don't want buffball meta and here we are ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[meager jasper]

And it's also the extreme end of the spectrum. You're arguing that because they don't want naked rat rogues in HR, that therefore they don't want all-green parties who try to only PvE and avoid conflict with the blues and purples.

But if HR is only viable if you're a PvP monster, nobody is going to play it. I certainly won't. It's just not worth the risk of dealing with other PvP monsters. I absolutely do want partly-geared players to run into HR more.

[tame shadow]

Huh?

[short heath]

And yall said I was out of touch 🤣 we really think that a hardcore game with leaderboard statistics for bossing, kills, loot, etc... isn't gunna have a competitive community that does everything they possibly can to win in HR/get onto those leaderboards?

[meager jasper]

You are out of touch. Thinking a tiny proportion of streamers and competitive players are the majority of players who think only about the leaderboards and not the core gameplay loop is hilariously out of touch.

There's a reason they're having to do this, the queues are completely unbalanced and awful for HR.

[short heath]

Lul

[meager jasper]

The literal only reason they are continuing to play with HR is because this sweatfest isn't acceptable to the vast majority of people and people are just choosing the normal maps.

[nova mauve]

This is exactly true. I've been in high roller lobbies with literally 2/9 people and the other person ran across the entire map to kill me for leaderboard kills. Risk in high roller has nothing to do with 9 people or 6 people

[short heath]

Delusional

[meager jasper]

The thing I dislike about high roller the most is that there's already an implied ante for your gear. I don't think it needs more than a very token ante cost. I certainly won't be paying 150g for HR runs.

[nova mauve]

You are wrong. First of all high roller doesn't represent the normal player. Devs have confirmed that it's population is extremely low. Hr currently is represented by people who pretty much only care about leaderboards. At least a few every game at minimum

[meager jasper]

Baseless. They've said this on multiple occasions.

[meager jasper]

Yeah, and they don't want that. And they've said that repeatedly. They want more engagement with HR. But without the potential for naked runs and things like that.

[short heath]

Did you listen to anything the devs said in the most recent Q&A?

[nova mauve]

If they want to get the sweaties out of norms then raising the ante makes no sense. They've also said that they are highly confident that the ante being 50 gold is what's making so few people play. I think this 100g change is just to confirm it when even less people play

[short heath]

They literally said that they have no intention of catering to newer or casual players.

[meager jasper]

When you randomly make connections between things the devs have said and facts of game design you're making conjecture and you should stop guessing. You're taking something completely out of context.

That's the definition of cherry-picking.

[vernal hedge]

catering to newer/casual players and hr ante changes are not one in the same boat lmao

[short heath]

We aren't even talking about ante changes. We're talking about how competitive and pvp focused HR/the playerbase is.

[meager jasper]

Anyway I'm out, this guy is so far up his own ass he doesn't want to be wrong and will argue this to the death with the intentionally wrong information. I've said my piece. I don't like the way HR is because of the danger of PvP in it. But in truth I don't know if it can be "fixed" at all without making normals actively really bad to play profit-wise. Because the problem isn't strictly its risk-reward: The problem is risk-reward vs the regular maps.

[short heath]

"I don't want to pvp in a pvpve game so I'm gunna complain about the people who do pvp in a pvpve game because they're better than me"

[meager jasper]

Strawmanning to complete his series of logical fallacies, how quaint.

[short heath]

So much copium it isn't even funny.

[meager jasper]

On that we agree.

[short heath]

Legitimately this started with me saying that the amount of ante to get into HR shouldn't matter to anyone because there is always a better chance for more and better loot that will guarantee a higher average payout, meaning highs will always be higher and lows will always be higher, unless you die, in which case you're out nothing more than the ante cost (because you would have died in no-ante anyway eventually).

[meager jasper]

And yes I don't actually think they'll leave the prices here. This feels exploratory.

[short heath]

People have too much gear fear and that's hindering their own game experience.

[nova mauve]

The lower the ante the higher number of people that will play its basic math

[meager jasper]

Buddy, have you ever heard the idea that the customer is always right on matters of taste?

[vernal hedge]

I missunderstood, but then help me understand, why do you see steps towards making more accessible to a larger part of the community has a bad thing?
Wouldn't you say incentivizing people to go HR and create a larger pool of leaderboard competitors over time a good thing?
and im in no way saying they should make it easier if anything probably even harder or at least different has overtime has people will nail the most optimal strats down

[meager jasper]

Complain about the casuals all you want, your opinion doesn't matter when measured against the whole of the player base.

If gear fear is a driving force in the game, then the game needs to be designed around that, period. It's very basic game design, you can't just pretend the game isn't about something most people experience.

[nova mauve]

How is "gear fear" something people are creating in their head? A really good full kit for warlock costs over 1k gold easy. That takes me hours to farm. If I die 2/3 of the time in high rollers even with gear then it's not very sustainable. It's not gear fear it's literally just time cost

[vernal hedge]

I disagreed with this.
you shouldnt drastically change your game because of your playerbase has players a lot of the times don't know what they want. a good example, tarkov had a massive issue with hatchling running to the best loot spots and shove all the best loot up their ass.
So they made it so that if you dont have a gun and armor that ai will naturally target you as well as removing the ability to add a lot of items to containers
if something is antitethical to the game you take steps agaisnt it

[deep bobcat]

Brother you can make more than 600g per run in The hr

[short heath]

If it takes you hours to farm 1k gold, then you need to play more HR. I can get 1k gold in less than an hour in HR.

[nova mauve]

Most people can't

[meager jasper]

Oh don't misunderstand. If people are experiencing something and they're telling you it, that doesn't mean it's bad and it should be removed. Yes, players don't know what they want. But you should be listening to their experience and aligning it with your vision for the game.

[vernal hedge]

ok makes more sense like that yes

[nova mauve]

Okay stream right now I'll watch you

[nova mauve]

Tarkov ruined itself by listening to the wrong portion of the player base too many times

[vernal hedge]

how so? I actully think that this is some of the best tarkov we have gotten, minus the cheating

[meager jasper]

I think a big part of the problem with games like this is that the people with the highest engagement tend to be the loudest, and the people the devs should actually want to try get to engage are by default completely silent on their desires and can only be seen through half-understood statistics.

[short heath]

There's a YT video of a dude averaging 1k gold an hour soloing, should go check it out. I'm busy putting on my wife's new tires and am certainly not doing anything at your demand.

[jade fossil]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493318/random-weather

What d'yall think of it?

[meager jasper]

I'd like some ruins variation, yeah. It needs different module potential too. I'm guessing it would be on the back end of their priorities right now though.

[nova mauve]

Weight system is absolutely trash. Cheating is abysmal. No late game except for people who want to play tarkov more than a full time job for 6 months straight. Lightkeeper doesn't add anything to the game they just locked items we already had behind him. Bosses and cultists spawn extremely too low benefits absolutely no one and takes away one of the most fun elements. Even if you spend hundreds of hours getting max traders and hideout you can spend ridiculous amounts of money to but enough good ammo to have 2 raids a day. Lighthouse sucks ass since they added light keeper because the entire map moves in only one direction again

[nova mauve]

Then don't make ridiculous claims. Either show me how you can do it "every raid" but don't tell me to go watch some YouTube video of a guy pretending like the best raid he ever had happens each time

[short heath]

It's 6 raids in a row. Maybe go watch the video.

[vernal hedge]

and whats the video?

[muted nova]

A nice suggestion would be to place a class cap on goblin caves, example would be a max of 2 barbarians per lobby or 2 rogues

[nova mauve]

Show me a warlock doing it at this point in wipe

[jade fossil]

you're very salty for a vidya game

[short heath]

Warlock can literally solo lich king in grays my guy

[nova mauve]

And I suppose all the 3 man teams will just escort me to him and let me out as well???

[muted nova]

nobody goes to inferno in pre 15

[daring trail]

You can't solo kill multiple teams in gray kit warlock?

Skill issue

[vernal hedge]

😂

[nova mauve]

So I should just continously create new characters just to feed gold to my actual high level characters? Seems like a pretty bad game mechanic

[short heath]

He wouldn't know that. He never goes.

[muted nova]

real, just make new characters lol, or find friends

[nova mauve]

The question wasnt can I make gold. The question was can I make gold in HR as warlock to make it worth the ante

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493320/lower-pickaxe-cost-to-1520 If pickaxes were cheaper would you use them more often? Fully forged swords and axes cost 20gp or less.

[short heath]

If you're running HR I assume you've at least made it out of 1 or 2 no-ante runs and would have at least a few pieces of gear that would make it easy to do, yes.

[blazing plover]

Bring back halloween candy shop and have a weekend event of some sort to make players return

[jagged flicker]

I want Scimitar. I want Katana. I want Punching Gauntlet.

[vernal hedge]

why cheaper? they are 25g, if you mine any 1 ore node and extract you've made profit
make it any cheaper and all youll have is naked rogues and ranger going mining

[jagged flicker]

Those are player prices. And what's wrong with more people mining? It's kinda rare to see because it's 25g. If it was 15 I'd see people risking it more.

[tame shadow]

Highly encourage checking this rogue suggestion:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492980/change-rogues-hide-ability-so-that-the-duration-is-affected-by-the-amount-of-lig#comment553872

[nova mauve]

Go play warlock and show me how a few pieces of gear allows me to easily survive in high roller pvp consistently.

[jagged flicker]

The only rogue nerf suggestion I liked was the one, where Ambush has to charge up for a few seconds, instead of flashing invis for .2 seconds. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/488314/rogue-ambush-perk-change

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492773/how-about-the-ambush-perk-only-goes-into-effect-after-a-few-seconds-of-stealth-i

[vernal hedge]

you can easily make 150-200g per run if you are able to mine, don't see a reason why it should be cheaper, it's a risk reward play
ill turn the question around, what wrong with people spending 10 more gold for a tool thatll make them hundreads?

[short heath]

Get a green LS with +magical healing and a Falchion/Ball combo with the same, you're realistically competitive.

[daring trail]

You can't find + 1 magic damage and +1 magic healing and wipe HR geared teams while solo?

Skill issue

[jagged flicker]

Why not man.

[nova mauve]

You're absolutely wrong for so many reasons

[short heath]

I mean if you're soloing into crypts and complaining that it's harder to do with less gear, that's a you problem not a game problem.

[tame shadow]

Yeah that is also a valid change, but still consider this change as well.

[daring trail]

I've really been enjoying using your logic against people tbh

[short heath]

People think that soloing vs trios should be realistically viable and it isn't, nor should it be.

[vernal hedge]

because its a change for the sake of change so I see no point, mining is already a very strong addon to your runs, specially if going hell

[daring trail]

You can't survive crypts with an average of.600g runs solo?

Skill issue

[jagged flicker]

I like the idea of more people mining in my runs. It's only 10g or even 5g.

[vernal hedge]

why not make it free then and have even more people mining?

[short heath]

I never said to do crypts solo, btw. I said if your team runs through another team in HR, you're already likely to be over this 600g average.

[jagged flicker]

You seem rather opposed to a 5-10g discount.

[daring trail]

Na dude there is a YouTube video of a guy doing it a few times in a row

You just have a skill issue

[vernal hedge]

because it changes nothing, its not 5 gold that stopping people from mining, its risking an additional 15-25g, its the being loud af and becoming a target to people
mining is in a good place, if its good then why change it?

[short heath]

There literally is a video of a guy doing it, lol. And there's also a video of a guy making like 1500g in about an hour starting with 300g and only trading.

[jagged flicker]

more noobs mining = more diverse games with drama

It's rare to hear people mining because 25g is alot for noobs.

[tame shadow]

its viable in a ton of games, why wouldn't it be in a game where one class has an advantage over another? If i described a bad tri comp that would loose to [insert class] you might agree, but should it solely be based on gear and amount of people and not skill? I can fairly easily se a solo rogue ambushing one after another in a trio and win.

[wooden meadow]

what‘s your point, actually?

[short heath]

If you don't have money in this game, you're not doing multiple things that are able to net you literal thousands at next to no risk, and quickly at that.

[rich sparrow]

I don't personally think the cost of a pick is what determines if people will mine or not. Pick's could be free and I still wouldn't want to run around looking for nodes and sit staring at a rock for 5 minutes while people around me play the game. But yeah make a pickaxe 10g and if that encourages more mining great.

[wooden meadow]

how would it be possible to ambush a team of 3 with a rogue?

[jagged flicker]

Folks are oddly defensive of the current pickaxe price. .w.

[short heath]

I don't see a problem with lowering it, honestly.

[vernal hedge]

more diverse games because they are afk mining? sorry I don't see that happening

[jagged flicker]

I was like 5g discount?

[daring trail]

Yeah, 100% man if you can't get out of hr crypts solo with 1200g per run it's a skill issue

[jagged flicker]

Look you don't like mining I get jeez. I personally LOVE osrs.

[abstract swallow]

'certain' people want a strict barrier to entry for gear (both elitists and carebears, in their separate queues), so they'll be fierce about cutting off options to gear up outside of trading

[jagged flicker]

I'll drop it for now. I've nothing to add to my side of the discussion. :3

[vernal hedge]

I do love mining, easiest money in this game and mining iron and coal to smelt into steel in alkharid was how I afforded my first bond

[short heath]

Mining and fishing are the two things every good game has.

[vernal hedge]

AMEN BROTHER

[rich sparrow]

We should be running around caves gathering herbs and brewing our own pots

[jagged flicker]

Someone have a #suggestion-discussion to vote on? I love airy conjecture as much as I love breathing, but I'd like to push issues and rally votes.

[vernal hedge]

so that brings into question, when are we gonna be able to fish in goblin caves and ruins?
cant recall any water in crypts other than sewer

[tame shadow]

Is it that hard to imagine? or find a clip on yt?

[nova mauve]

really because my team cant even survive normal crypts consistently because they dont play 24/7 and have 1500 gold loadouts to lose on demand

[stuck perch]

Prior to the patch, how many players fit into HR lobbies?

[short heath]

That's your skill and their lack of skill turning a 1v3 into three separate 1v1s with you getting a jump on each individual. Yes, skill can allow you to outplay your opponents. But going into any match as, most specifically NOT a Rogue, a solo is inherently a disadvantage.

[short heath]

9/16

[wooden meadow]

I mean, obviously you can get lucky, but doing that consistently isn‘t going to work

[short heath]

9 GC 16 Crypts

[nova mauve]

you literally are just argueing everything everyone says to no purpose and in bad faith. you are completely contrived. you cite cherry picked ridiculously over simplified examples of why everyone should just have 10k gold after playing a few hours in any context. you are literally here just to annoy people as much as you can.

[short heath]

What? Lol

There are very few people, even at the top end of the playerbase, who can solo v trio consistently in HR.

[tame shadow]

The better you are, the better gear, the more consistent it becomes and the less luck you'd need. Im not saying as a solo you can win against anyone, and you can still choose to opt out. Not evey fight needs to be a fight. A solo has much more options than a trio when it comes to picking fights or taking portal and leave.

[abstract swallow]

I agree, if only because I don't consider Wizard players people.

[short heath]

Wizards are gross. 🤮

[wooden meadow]

I‘m on your side regarding going in solo in crypts and I like to do it as well. it‘s not that profitable for me, but I enjoy it very much. but there so many comps where I wouldn‘t engage because of the risk.

[short heath]

Which is crazy because they've been nerfed into the ground from what they used to be and they are STILL very competitive, if not the best class in the game.

[tame shadow]

btw i might not have read much of what u were saying earlier, but i never said hr, or ur message didnt say hr so im speaking in general

[short heath]

Ahh, yeah the majority of this conversation has been about HR. Soloing is much easier to do in no-ante.

[daring trail]

Well, all that has been nerfed "into the ground" is their buffs.

None of the actual issues with wizard have been addressed. the damage is ridic

[vernal hedge]

It’s been what now? 2 or 3 hours of mostly hr discussion?
Quite an impressive run for this channel lmao

[tame shadow]

that is very true, and thats mostly how you would do it as well. I just didnt like seeing it being said it was unrealistic and it shouldnt be.

[short heath]

They have addressed damage multiple times, what? They even reverted changes twice so far.

[daring trail]

ah im glad you said it, they REVERTED changes they forgot to add in

[jagged flicker]

Where v o t e

[vernal hedge]

Magic missiles and ignite were nerfed back to 50% scaling no?

[short heath]

They're gathering data - gotta be patient with balancing damage at this point. Game's in EA still.

[daring trail]

Ignite/MM were nerfed to 50% back in PT4? i think.

When they adjusted the attribute ratio to 50%, then back to 100%. they didnt correctly change ignite/MM back to 50%

[short heath]

Only Ignite was put to 50% in PT4. All spells had a 50% for one patch and that was reverted next patch.

[daring trail]

It wasnt until a later patch where they corrected it to 50%

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486846/add-classic-elf-girl-to-the-store >the old elf girl was deleted for the current, but still cute, one.

also the new one's eyebrows are black despite being blonde. Homegirl dyes her hair. Fake @ss elf.

https://imgur.com/a/waqow4f

[daring trail]

MM was apart of this too. it wasnt just ignite.

But yes, so with all of that being said. Technically wizard has only recieved damage buffs.

When they did the 50% ratio thing, they actually buffed the damage of Fireball and Icebolt.
When they reverted back to 100%, they kept those damage buffs in.

So in all reality wizard has only seen damage buffs since EA release

[short heath]

MM was a part of the second "nerf", not the first one. But otherwise, yes.

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491649/give-warlock-kris-as-an-option-because-its-spooky >warlock deserve the kris, because it's spooki

https://tenor.com/view/eternal-reward-jafar-aladdin-gif-18526258

[undone lake]

A solution to splitting community would be making this mode limited time. So they could do every other 2 hours, specific days only, weekends only, ect. Rewards would be the same. The idea is to give players a fair chance to gear then move over to either normal or high rollers with the gear they acquire. This could be very refreshing knowing everyone has an equal chance. Would just come down to rng, skill, and ofc character balance

[vernal hedge]

I think this is the only way that would work.
people ask for a queue for this and a queue for that without realizing how bad it is for the games health to segment the community into so many game modes

[nova mauve]

splitting the community will literally destroy the game forever

[polar vale]

remove the trading system pleas, will fix alot i think

[dusky kernel]

If you did that what would you do about drop trading?

[daring trail]

Would it fix anything, or is it gonna allow the sweats who find a good set ( or buy one and have it dropped to them ), THAT much more power over the regular player?

[short heath]

It would at least put a layer of risk on top of the transaction

[polar vale]

it would stop alot of over geared ppl just over running most ppl. ofc skill is involved but atm it feels like its gear dependend more.

[muted nova]

it would be fun to have an Ironman mode

[daring trail]

I would argue, that removing trading, would potentially hurt the 'regular player' more.
One of these super gamers is gonna put together a set with perfect stats over a handful of games, like full weapon dmg for example on a rogue.

Then they will go into lobbies and literally 1-2 shot everyone. But the regular player no longer has the option to go to trade and buy a similar kit. They are 100% screwed with no way to get a kit theirselves

[short heath]

I agree for the most part. But making trading have an associated risk by making it only able to happen in game is just interesting

[polar vale]

ye i see your point there tho, but wouldnt he deserve it more to have that set then? the risk is still high in losing it. and getting a new set, be alot harder.

[dusky kernel]

I feel like the regular player doesn’t interact that much with trading tbh 🤔

[polar vale]

that aswell, trading atm seems like a hussle, i mean i sold quite abit over the last days, but it required me to be on the trading for hours.

[daring trail]

This isnt really a fair thing to say, the people not interacting with trade are 1-14 ( have no choice ) and the people at 15+ most likely HAVE to use trade to some degree unless they just do factory kits every run

[dusky kernel]

I’d love to see statistics regarding trade.
The question to be answered would be: how much would the removal of trading effect the average player?
I think a good portion of people rn are just remaking characters to perpetually stay -15 though

Perhaps if the average player isn’t taking advantage of trade enough, a better solution would be to make trading easier (as opposed to removing it)

[daring trail]

People remaking at 15 is a perfect example of how bad the 1-14 system actually is.

It is not good design if the most optimal thing to do is remake at 15

[dusky kernel]

Bad as in, for the game?
It seems like people are choosing to revert because they’re enjoying the loop from 1-14 🤔

[muted nova]

it's just that 1-14 is like playing a new wipe

everyone is low geared like you and low leveled. it's fun and feels like you can win with skill

[daring trail]

Yes, bad for the game.

When you don't allow people to feel the full capability of their class, they will only stick around for so long

[autumn raven]

Wrong, the normal trading system have people super inflating the value of the items and if a normal player who just wants to play the game, to improve their set and don't waste 1 hour or more to buy the items on a fair price they ended up having to pay extremely more or simply just never use their gold

[dusky kernel]

Maybe it’s just me but I think whatever is most fun will likely keep people playing longer.
People have differing preferences with that

[daring trail]

You can go into trade and get a blue/purple weapon for 50g

You can find kits for 500-800g that have relevant stats.

Ever since HR was 0g ante, the price of stuff is rock bottom, unless it's God roll

[autumn raven]

If they add a market system it would save much more time and benefits more the players in general

[autumn raven]

The color of the weapons/armor most of the time is irrelevant

[dusky kernel]

Maybe the real disparity is trade disparity 😆

[daring trail]

The color of weapons specifically affect their damage. It's actually the main thing that matters, of course a God roll with that is always better

Armor is where color isn't a big deal

[candid forge]

I'm surprised that anyone ever stuck around with Tarkov after the weight system got added. Imagine if it was added here too. No more pulling juicy purple heavy plate sets out of raids 😨.

[coral glen]

Man I need to say something here - I've been trying to play warlock and dying all the time... I played mage in the past, and really tried to play warlock - following guides, reading tutorials, practicing, etc.... Still dying a lot. Decided to play Ranger and now I see how unbalanced the game is right now... I don't even like to play Ranger, but I survive waaaaaaay more, I have more options, more flexibility, etc.

[daring trail]

Warlock isn't a finished class right now. It doesn't feel good right now

[dusky kernel]

Some classes are much harder to play for sure, and it could also be a miss match play style thing

[nova mauve]

dude right it defeated the entire purpose of the game. literally no reward for actually looting or pvping

[abstract swallow]

the worst part about weight/inertia was that it COULD have been well implemented
instead it just emphasized all the worst parts of T*rkov while harming what players enjoyed most in this almost meanspirited way
gunplay was made worse, looting was made worse, progression was made worse, and not in any way that made rounds more meaningful or slower paced-- it just made things optimally terrible

[nova mauve]

Yup. feels horrendously clunky. range is abysmally low. Curse of pain has a huge cast time animation AND is a projectile so if they dodge, even if you put it where they dodged to, it misses because they move back to the original spot. If you miss power of sacrifice it puts the entire dot damage on you. base move speed is too low to kite anything. like wtf youre not glass cannon so how can you win anything if you cant kite. oh also you get shit on by all other ranged classes because of your lack of range and they have faster projectiles and better damage... read about it in my blog lol https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491446/warlock-quality-of-life-changes#comment553378

[candid forge]

I genuinely thought the game was fine in 12.6. Overall feel was a lot better. Balance-wise, only flaw was the M4 meta and awful shotgun performance but there were LOTS of other viable builds with widely available armor-piercing ammo and sources of recoil reduction.

[nova mauve]

Yeah. i think that was the wipe they released reserve right? that wipe i got kappa and since then the game has fallen off a cliff. idk why so much of the content is locked behind stuff the average player will never have time for. and the players that do play a ton are punished in different ways for no reason

[daring trail]

For sure, i personally am holding back on suggestions for Warlock until it is actually fleshed out, we dont know everything they have in mind for warlock yet

[nova mauve]

Yeah i get that, i just would like them to fix what currently exists. cause idc what they add the exisitng spells need updated to at least be functional.

[nova mauve]

supposedly in Onepeggs Q&A they confirmed that youll be able to summon creatures and control certain mobs in game. which im not sure if thats actually what id like but im fine with whatever they want to add just as something new to have

[autumn raven]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492770/invisibility-rework-in-general

[cerulean ruin]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492241/exit-to-lobby-when-loading-screen-is-going-for-hell Let's be honest, the simplest of features that we need
..

Short summary: Ability to exit to lobby when your team is not going down, and you ended up accidently spectating a team going down... now you have to wait for them to load in.. sadge

[hearty tendon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492324/hr-incentives-for-the-future-questing-system

[cerulean ruin]

CoP is actually hit scan, there are videos that show you proof, distance does not matter.. the projectile releases but it activates immediately upon cast (from the weapon) the projectile is just for fun fyi

[plush magnet]

Anyone else think the 100 gold for HR goblin caves is a bit much? I currently run regular and HR and in high roller if I manage a full inventory of trinkets I get around 150-200g a trip give or take. However on the normal goblin caves I make around 90-150g a run and it's free. You tell me if HR is even worth it considering the cave troll loot hardly even seems better. Also 6 players is all that was in the HR goblin before the change anyways. Now youll just be solo dolo

[nova mauve]

youre wrong lol. i have tons of proof it isnt unless desync is just that bad

[cerulean ruin]

The warlock chat has shown me all the resources and distance did not matter, it gets freeze framed the moment its cast and the dmg is immediately applied. it;'s hitscan ( SRC: #warlock message )

[outer lotus]

Definitely too much!!! And 150 for crypts is just ridiculous, yeah you will escape more often but i already escape often. I spend 150 already (50 fee,50 luck pot,50 healing stuff) to make maybe 200-300 back, now im gonna spend 250 with the luck pot and heals…. They better double the loot chance in high roller if they want this to be viable….

Here is a poll for increased fee in high roller. PLEASE VOTE https://strawpoll.com/GPgV6kN5vga

[abstract swallow]

the higher barrier to entry is a good thing, it raises the value of HR-exclusive loot (which needs to go back to including purples outside of LR Inferno)
a lower ante is actively making your loot LESS worthwhile because it's more accessible for people to farm with 0 investment

[outer lotus]

Bro 50g fee right now and half my lobbies dont even get full, how the hell are lobbies gonna be full woth 150g fee. And hr exclusive loot is way too rare right now for 150g to be a good idea. If they double the loot chance then its ok

[abstract swallow]

half your lobbies aren't filling because:

1. Goblin Caves killed team diversity & queue populations
2. There's no reason to go to HR for PvP because GC gets more PvP, faster, and at default kit
3. There's no reason to go to HR for money because general loot is overtuned as hell, and you can run GC/overgeared Crypts way faster and lower risk for the same or better reward
   I do agree HR loot needs to be improved though, shit's just sad, especially when bossing

[lavish viper]

2 suggestions for the game one being lower arrow costs or remove them again as its too much gold compared to every other class and also slow the zones down a tiny bit as honestly dont get much time to loot anymore zones are soo fast and also scuffed as fuck being half out the map in a bottom corner somewhere for end zones

[quartz oxide]

You know someone is intelligent and articulate when their message starts with bro

[outer lotus]

Good one lol, bro i speak 5 languages idgaf how i sound like in a game discord

[quartz oxide]

Language flex damn

[vernal hedge]

you know someone is smart when they come on a discussion chat just to try and make fun of someone

[candid forge]

You'd think that HR would be more like Tarkov Labs where you risk a hefty sum of money + gear for MASSIVE payouts. It's insane that its rewards are tuned so conservatively.

[outer lotus]

Facts, he got nothing better going on?

[quartz oxide]

Im glad we agree

[gentle rapids]

Make “Trade” actual trading

[outer lotus]

Love opening a gold chest in HR to have greens and whites

[vernal hedge]

when you expect to get labs but instead get lake of kalandra 😦

[abstract swallow]

a shockingly adequate comparison
it'll probably get better when they add the first floor back to Forgotten Castle so Crypts/Inferno have proper gear floors

[scarlet temple]

ADD SLIMES

[hollow quest]

Nerf ambush, back stab, and base damage for daggers and bows. Rogues and rangers are non stop spammed and ruining the game

[gentle rapids]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493370/make-trade-actual-trading

[lavish viper]

https://gyazo.com/b4fba830f9ac5621871e978bd28a4696 great zones btw

[potent cosmos]

anyone else think the highroller entry cost is dumb?

[bright ore]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484378/tiered-matchmaking

[hardy niche]

Need to nerf damage/increase health across the board. Games more fun when fights last longer and you have an actual chance to outplay

[haughty oriole]

State of the game is boring. you either go into normal fully geared or just dont play, there literally no point going up against fully blue/purps

[hardy niche]

Yup and good luck grinding out the gold to get a decent enough setup to survive being 2-3 shot by a stealthed rogue

[haughty oriole]

Also the stability of the game is worse than ever, the performance ingame is just horrid

[thorn pewter]

How can i suggest for the channel below? Here would be my suggestion! Suggestion: As i think Rogues stealth ambush attacks are way to op and also absolutely cheese play with ZERO skill,----->maybe nerf stealth so that rogues can use stealth but with a malus after coming out of stealth or maybe the cant attack for like few seconds in general. What do you think guys? And also i play ALL classes and iam not biased/corrupted to ANY specific class!

[slender void]

Eh. Just straight up nerfing stealth or the burst damage Rogues apply would basically ruin the entire class. Outside of their insta-kill potential, Rogues offer nothing to the game or to a team. Bard is better and buffing and lockpicking, Ranger provides more utility, Barbarian does the same damage but is way tankier, Rogues just get outclassed 9/10 times.

What they need to do is shift the damage from stuff like Ambush into other parts of his kit, or nerf the damage after adding something else into the base kit to make playing Rogue less one dimensional. A parrying dagger or a dodge mechanic for example would be great. No, not his backflip, that doesn't even properly work as a dodge. More like quick side steps or backsteps to weave in and out of fights.

[thorn pewter]

"Rogues just get outclassed 9/10 times." Funny, statistics/facts say different. so thats why most players go rogues, most Leaderboards are rogues?

Maybe just nerf his agi stats`? Idk im just trying to propose

[slender void]

A majority of players play Rogues in the solo and duo modes because of the burst potential. But the issue with the class is that, currently, it's either you play Ambush or your class does not exist. It's entirely one dimensional. All we need to do is shift power away from Ambush and burst play and move that strength into other parts of his kit, that's what I'm saying. If you just flat out nerf it, the class will go from too powerful to nonexistent, neither of which are good for the game.

And the 9/10 times comment was in team play, trio's primarily. You don't see many Rogues in Trio's, at least not nearly as many as in duo's and solo's like we have now.

[thorn pewter]

Ok i dont know then. Iam just trying to figure out what makes rogue OP. Maybe the burst output yes as you cannot really defend or react to it in ANY meaningfull way

[slender void]

Stealth isn't really much of an issue on Rogue. It was already nerfed before, there's not much else they can do to nerf it further. It's really just Ambush + Weakspot that's causing Rogue to be such a problem. If the damage from Ambush was brought down to, say, 20%, it wouldn't be nearly as instant-killy. But then we just need to move the damage we just removed to somewhere else. Maybe buffing his Will so that poison damage is more viable of an option, or increase back-stab damage to make stalking people from behind better.

[thorn pewter]

i still like the idea of giving rogue a big malus when coming out of stealth or denying him to fight for few seconds. Wouldnt that make rogue rat play still viable but limit his noob-cheese-zero-skill-camp-for-hours-to-1tap-a-wounded-survivor-in-late-game-playstyle? xD

[slender void]

Once power from Ambush or Weakspot is moved somewhere else, Rogue will probably be a lot more tolerable to play against. And hopefully not as common in solo's.

[thorn pewter]

I like my idea as i like yours. Need to find out the hard way i guess. by implementing/testing both

[abstract swallow]

Weak Point is wonderful in team contexts, since it gives Rogue actual team utility and lets him burst down isolated/backline players, but the flat damage boost needs to be something else.
Same with Ambush, it just needs a straight rework. Barbarian being nerfed nonstop since PT4 is proof enough that free damage multipliers baked into a class are always going to be toxic.

[scarlet temple]

ADD HOT LADY VARIANTS TO ALL PVE

[urban tapir]

What was the thought process on increasing HR? So far it was only 50 gold and STILL geared players are too chicken to go HR and fight other geared players. They instead go to the normal dungeons and WRECK everyone for nothing other than trolling. Gear matters. anyone saying get better is dumb and full of it. I've been on the other side and was only slightly geared up and WORKED a fellow fighter who was not. You get more hits you can easily just trade blows and win.

[slender void]

They lowered the maximum players per lobby in HR. This means, ultimately, much more loot per person. It makes HR more enticing since there's less competiton for things like Cave Troll. Mining especially is gonna be much better to do in HR than base GC.

[urban tapir]

I don't get it. In HR if you make it to the end your inventory is most likely full anyways from killing people. I've many times had instances where dead bodies were everywhere and my inventory was maxed...and I just had to let gear rot

[blazing trout]

this

https://tenor.com/view/slime-shock-dq-slime-slime-dq-dragon-quest-slime-gif-21452977

[scarlet temple]

Nerf rogues by locking 1 of the skill slots to always be the back tumble

[gentle rapids]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493370/make-trade-actual-trading

[weak solstice]

lockpicking should be part of the kit by default and the perk should be replaced with locking doors

[scarlet temple]

LAME

[gentle rapids]

Locking doors is ass but lockpick should be base rogue (or start with lockpicks)

[wooden seal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report

[gentle rapids]

Devs said this will happen eventually

[weak solstice]

that's already in the pipeline

[tough hemlock]

This would make sense tbh

[wooden seal]

wheres the location they said this?

[gentle rapids]

Onepeg qna (YouTube channel)

[weak solstice]

youtube q@a with devs check youtube

[tough hemlock]

Should add a way to test a setup before going into an actual game

[gentle rapids]

I know why it’s bad though, kill a rogue get free lockpick, everyone has lockpicks

[weak solstice]

just imagine being stabbed in the back by rogue

[wooden seal]

ahh a youtuber said it too 😮

[austere moon]

Hello,
I think the rest function should be improved, I understand its slow for a reason, but:
if you have been sitting down for 10sec it should improve the health reghp by x% then after 10 sec more it should be improved by x% reghp.
This would then have the wait rest as intended so you cant abuse it.
This is just to make the characters move around more, play more aggressive, have more encounters, found more loot etc,

Its not good or fun gameplay to sit down for 3min and get full hp back then get hit two mobs and be forced to sit down, you dont want to waste pots/bandages on everything..

[weak solstice]

no the youtuber asked questions to the devs and they responded

[tough hemlock]

Just don't get hit by ai then

[austere moon]

or other players, yeaha nice tactic dude

[gentle rapids]

I like it

[weak solstice]

or just no lockpicks and everything opens. either bard needs his lockpick song gone or rogue needs the same option

[gentle rapids]

But it would have to be more than 10 seconds

[weak solstice]

the time can be tuned. the point is lockpicking is a dogshit perk and if rogue is going to have ambush nerfed it needs utility

[gentle rapids]

I ain’t talking to you

[austere moon]

True, just a way for it not to be abused, but i believe there should be some sort for slow increase to eliminate sitting and doing nothing for several min

[hallow cargo]

@dawn grotto An idea for development: lots of people are complaining about getting rolled in normal lobbies by people who have end game gear. I think some of the high roller changes are interesting but the high cost will continue to cause people to not go high roller. The decrease in player count makes high roller much more appealing and is a good change. In addition, I would suggest increasing the drop rate of greens so that people have some level of gear and are not fighting purples in grey. Additionally, rings need to be more common. People who have rings against those who don’t end up with a huge advantage. While I get the game is about risking having such an advantage, this will help tone down the scaling so that it becomes more in line with skill rather than purely being out geared. I would highly recommend reading this as numbers will sadly continue to drop for a game I love because people cant get started.

[gentle rapids]

Yeah the concept itself I like

[austere moon]

it might be some sort of fine-tuning, especially when Bard has the resting song, but the rest as is, is just bad game design atm

[weak solstice]

if you improve sitting then what function will campfires serve

[austere moon]

well what function does resting serve when it doesnt do anything if you cant sit still for 3+min

[weak solstice]

give you spells back and small heals.

[austere moon]

logicily speaking, if you can sit down for 1min and get full hp, but the campfire removes that function then those wont compete

[gentle rapids]

I’m ngl the devs seem to want to move towards resting being a core mechanic by slowing down the game in general, resting feels bad because it’s a commitment “you need to sit here for X time or lose your red health”

[weak solstice]

there are potions, surgical kits, and campfires currently. with the bard sitting buff and a campfire you will heal considerably fast. im not saying your idea is bad but if sitting is buffed then why even use a campfire

i forgot bandages

[austere moon]

yeaha i understand, which makes it that there is a bit punish if you cant rest long enough,
But for low levels, need something to make this faster,
i understand that there is numerous things that can quicken the process, but thats usually for high end players, and then this wont interfere with those type of items

[plush magnet]

Right? Not to mention if you play ranger in the goblin caves. 15 arrows is 15 gold so that's easily 30 a run if you like to have plenty. plus traps at 10 gold each plus heals costing 20-30 gold a run if you use them after pvp. The shit is already gold sink left and right. HR is going to be so dead but I guess that's good for bossing? idk.

[gentle rapids]

Maybe it goes faster at the start if you have a lot of red health to gain

[plush magnet]

All these changes but they won't address Rogues 1 tapping everyone in HR lobbys with nothing but a good dagger.

[austere moon]

well i mean warlocks get more red health, and it get increased for every spell

[gentle rapids]

Exclude them lol, cus they can go to 1 and abuse that

[austere moon]

haha then the warlocks would whine haha

[gentle rapids]

Then let ‘em have it honestly what’s the worst that could happen that warlock is always 100%? Their a poverty class rn (maybe not on Friday tho)

[austere moon]

i mean in all honesty, the dev team is scared of something becoming overpowered and fine-tuning everything, damn just throw out some new functions and let it be wild, instead of putting out one function, then fine-tuning it for months, i mean its not that bad if a few functions are considered overpowered, it will get nerfed eventually

well hopefully they read my resting concept and like it, i will go play some more, have fun peeps

[plush magnet]

There is still so many broken things. Barb still 1 hits people so often as do Rogues with their 60 second invisibility with no counter play. I hope the changes will address one or the other.

[gentle rapids]

Remove hide 👍

[haughty oriole]

Everyone is talking about class balancing meanwhile game performance is at its worst ever

[plush magnet]

Maybe just make hide not have a perk that makes you do insane damage plus remove all armor allowing you to 2-3 tap every class for litterally free.

[gentle rapids]

Ambush needs a nerf obviously, but hide should have uses (3)

[summer crystal]

I think de-incentivizing gear hunting and making loot more common sense could have a positive impact. Here are my ideas: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491954/loot-system-rework-ver2

[plush magnet]

I'd be down with hide having limited uses.

[gentle rapids]

It’s the only way I see an escape to it, it’s just too strong rn

[plush magnet]

Can regen them at a campfire but that's it. Would be a good change but it wouldn't fix the issue with them just hiding behind doors waiting for footsteps so they can 1 hit someone

[plush magnet]

There would still be no counter play in HR with everyone playing rogue in the dark. The only class that can slightly help is wiz but light orbs don't even work right

[abstract swallow]

WPA needs its damage boost changed to something else, and Ambush needs to be reworked completely

[gentle rapids]

Nah no regen like ranger snacks fuck em

[brisk verge]

you should just be able to sell silver coins to the collector for the same conversion. Also, let barbs use longsword

[gentle rapids]

Not that much, dmg to 30% and you need to be invis for insert time here (imo 15s) for the perk to activate, but let it be a 5s window instead of 2

[gentle rapids]

Nobody is ready for barb longsword, even you Jesus

[fast lily]

The best ambusher suggestion I saw was every X seconds invisible = % increased damage, capped at a certain value.
So if you did 1% bonus damage per second invisible, you could get 45-60% by the end of the duration on the next hit. Or you can do a base bonus % (10% base?) and then have it be x% per second and cap it at 50% or something.

[wooden meadow]

totally disagree on the silver coins. that would make them completely useless and no one would pick them up again. I‘d suggest to introduce more coin variants as well. bronze coins

[brisk verge]

whats useless is having to convert them at the treasurer every time as thats his only use. Instead, just combine collector and treasurer. what u said makes 0 sense

but yea new coins would be cool too

[waxen flame]

Because we really wanna encourage more rogues to afk in dark corners in stealth

[halcyon raven]

^ lol

[dense cipher]

getting one tapped all the time by white geared is crazy annoying

[gentle rapids]

Is that not intended? (Remove hide 👍)

[waxen flame]

^ true

[halcyon raven]

^false

[fast lily]

This suggestion harshly reduces their damage. They're the stealth class, so yeah, they should be invisible and hide in corners. Right now they could just tap 'hide' in combat and get 50% more damage in half a second. This makes it so they can't just turn a corner, turn invisible and instantly do a burst. It rewards them for preparing more.

[gentle rapids]

Rogue should not have free invis

And there is actually no way you’re defending ambush bullshit

[halcyon raven]

Rouge invisibility is a core mechanic . What should be introduced is a new item or mechanic to reveal invisbility instead of just wizzard light

[waxen flame]

The annoying part about rogues is the part where you get one shot before even seeing them, they're fairly squishy

[fast lily]

I'm suggesting Ambush get gutted as a damage bonus unless they've been sitting there for literally 60 seconds, but keeping the playstyle because rogue is the squishy assassin class.

The active ability also needs changes but this at least makes Ambush more balanced while keeping it's thematics.

[valid atlas]

these balancing changes better be focused on the rogue and ranger

[fast lily]

Also, for context, I main Cleric and Warlock.

[gentle rapids]

I guess that’s the opposite angle, I agree but rn rogue needs hide to be changed

[gentle rapids]

I have zero hope for ranger nerfs, they better happen though I just don’t know anymore

[fast lily]

yeah, I'm not disagreeing Hide could use more counterplay. The best counterplay rn is Wizard light orb but it's also the class most heavily screwed over by a Rogue, so... either the wizard finds them and instantly kills them or doesn't find them and the rogue pops them.

[waxen flame]

Literally no one enjoys waiting 60 seconds or more before entering a cleared room just because there's a rogue player in the game, why make this the intended playstyle?

[halcyon raven]

One of my ideas for counterplaying invisiblity is \ Have the woodsman sell a special torch ~ lets say like 20-30g that reveals invis

[abstract swallow]

scrolls of light orb will be a thing

[gentle rapids]

Way down the line but yeah, light orb needs to reveal all invis before that though

[halcyon raven]

I really love the idea of oldschool diablo scrolls where you have spells single cast

[gentle rapids]

Barbarians are going to be scroll nukes, they will just take forever to cast them

[fast lily]

It's not the intended playstyle, it's a perk. If you don't like the perk you swap it off. People forget that Perks should be relatively equal in power so that you can swap them around. If you like sitting in a corner for 60 seconds for a big burst of damage, then take ambusher... and if you don't, take something more immediate.

[halcyon raven]

TO be fair\ Barbs shouldnt be able to use magic to begin with, fighter and most classes should because thats more lore accurate

[gentle rapids]

Literally nothing compares to ambush cheese rn

[fast lily]

I agree, hence why I'm suggesting a nerf to it.

Hide = Lasts 45 seconds~ baseline, without extra stats.
Meaning someone needs to be in front of you to stab when that last second ticks down in order for you to get a 45% damage increase on your next attack.

Otherwise, you wasted 45 seconds doing nothing.

With my suggestion you could probably expect to get, like, a 20% damage increase when you get a good opportunity to attack which is far more reasonable.

[bitter oxide]

An idea for development: lots of people are complaining about getting rolled in normal lobbies by people who have end game gear. I think some of the high roller changes are interesting but the high cost will continue to cause people to not go high roller. The decrease in player count makes high roller much more appealing and is a good change. In addition, I would suggest increasing the drop rate of greens so that people have some level of gear and are not fighting purples in grey. Additionally, rings need to be more common. People who have rings against those who don’t end up with a huge advantage. While I get the game is about risking having such an advantage, this will help tone down the scaling so that it becomes more in line with skill rather than purely being out geared. I would highly recommend reading this as numbers will sadly continue to drop for a game I love because people cant get started.

[gentle rapids]

Let me get this straight… you want rogues to camp more?

[fast lily]

Make the perk into the perk you take if you want to play that playstyle while still overall nerfing it from it's abuse cases now.
Then for the rogues who want more consistency, have other perks be options for that.

[gentle rapids]

The solution shouldn’t be camping more, the park needs to remain usable not go in the dumpster

[prisma sonnet]

woooo games hopefully gonna be fun again on friday!!

[fast lily]

I don't think my suggestion puts it into the dumpster. Getting a 10-20% damage increase on your next attack for being invisible for 10-20 seconds is not hard to achieve in normal gameplay and not bad for a perk. If you manage to sit invisible without someone bumping into you for 45 seconds and still get that attack off within the 3 second window of ambusher, you're rewarded for positioning well.

One of the largest abuse cases with ambusher rn is people are able to get into a fight, tap hide during a fight but not use the invisibility for a 50% damage bonus on demand because they technically 'exited hide' and I'm trying to suggest a way to remove that.

[spice sigil]

here it is my personal take on changes to arrows and rouges as well as barbs and fighters.

Rouges need a damage nerf, I personally think they should lean more toward a utility/ ability disabling class. I do not think rouge should be unable to kill other players I just think we need to make sure they need to actually ambush you rather than just hide in your face and run at you. And this is just my thoughts personally I think that a rogue should not be able to two tap someone in heavy armor no matter the gear discrepancy.

As for their movement speed, I think it's mostly fine I just think that the max cap for movement speed should be around a naked fighter's speed rather than a naked rouges speed.

I think barb is a ok class but the issue for me with barb is that he is the only class in the game with abilities with downsides. I am ok with this it's just that the benefits need to be greater than the debuff. also And this is a personal take rather than something that needs to be changed. I think barb should a weaker version of the weapon mastery perk that would let them use the spear and longsword.

For fighters I think lower-level plate needs a buff when being hit with an arrow. Adding hitboxes to the visor and joints which deal similar but not quite the same damage as a head shot would make this change more sensible. As well it would add a higher skill and I think it would be fun to land a perfect shot in the opening in a fighters helmet to deal massive damage!

I dont have have enough experience in other classes to give an honest opinion on them other than these.

I am demotivated to play the game when I get hit with Zap twice and die

I think plate mail should be a way to take less damage from arrows. As of right now I feel you die at the same speed with or without it.

clothing should have less of a penalty as putting on a hat and moving significantly slower is ridiculous.

Part two a gore system for player feed back

a gore system that gives players feedback based on the amount of blood that sprays from an attack would be amazing.

It could work like this, if you landed a hit on the target's hand that did little damage it could be a small spray of blood with a sound effect but mostly the sound of clothing ripping or metal plate being scraped by your weapon

A headshot that deals massive damage could have the sound of the opponent's helmet being shattered and a massive blood spray to show that you did a large amount of damage.

I don't know if the game needs a full gore system like heads being cut off or smashed, arms and legs flying everywhere. { even if I personally think that would be awesome} I don't know if it's exactly me for the game but I think some type of system to give players better feedback on how much damage they did would be nice and this could be a good iteration of that idea.

this could also work for spells by giving them a different sound effect based on how powerful they are. Low level casters could have the current sound effects. but higher level and higher geared casters could have spells that sound much more demented and scary. Maybe they leave bigger burn marks or send players corpses flying.

I do think it would be cool to walk into a room where players and monsters died to see that limbs went flying and blood is sprayed on the walls with magic missile burns everywhere.

that is all I have to say.

also when do suggestions open back up?

[frigid wraith]

Walk right and hope for the best, but I agree I just got almost 3 shot by one @146 hp on HR gob

[wooden meadow]

there‘s a new portal where you can submit suggestions. check the last post in #d-and-d-suggestions

[spice sigil]

thank you so much!!!

[ripe breach]

Ironmace nerf the ez class Archer please! You are always changing spells and melee but never make any changes to the Archers easy-mode class. Please do something to the Archers lol.

[autumn raven]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492770/invisibility-rework-in-general

Instead of changing the duration of the invisibility, you can rework it like this

[spice sigil]

I just posted it all in their web site now thanks!

[elfin vigil]

No they wont lol if you remove trading the only way left is running with someone. this is so risky it renders the trade unprofitable this mindset you have is boring and not helping find solutions.

[meager oasis]

The best answer to invis without taking it out completely. Makes a lot of sense honestly. Really enjoy this 🙂

[real trellis]

Ambush is the meta and you don't even need to pull off a true ambush you can just pop invis (by the skill or by potions) 10 ft from your target then boom, 50% more damage on your next hit

[fast lily]

@real trellis ☝️

[scarlet creek]

I think that armor rating should be buffed at the low end and nerfed a bit more at the high end. Make it so around 60 or 70 armor rating you get around 25-30% physical damage reduction. And have around 150-200 be the new 50% point and have anything higher than that be insanely hard to achieve. Buffing the low end would make people have more of a chance and take less damage. It also gives a reason to wear armor as some classes because usually it's better to just not wear armor since it doesn't give enough of an advantage and weapons scale faster than armor.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493226/buff-armor-rating-at-the-lowend-and-nerf-the-highend

[grave condor]

Everyone just complain about Rogue, lets get this class removed or fixed up...

[vivid warren]

i feel like iron mace should either remove solo cave or remove barbarians its really sad playing anything but ranger vs them

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/481886/stash-sort-up-button-qol🇺

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/485873/add-game-replay-for-cheat-expose
**It's for you not for me **

[tepid vine]

REMOVE CROSSBOW FROM FIGHTER/BARD

[wraith tide]

Can we make warlock spells melee touch attacks. I play a lot of melee warlock and I just thought of a melee debuff class that has magic.

[echo dome]

NO, dont be nerfin fighter only every other class

[worthy flint]

Can we get default gear only on all maps cause then dont need to worry about all these ppl decked out no matter what level

[short heath]

Likely won't happen. Rangers are basically the 2% on either side of a bell curve right now, meaning they are either dogwater bad, or they are effectively godly, and nothing inbetween, but aren't the absolute worst or the absolute best class, either. Rangers are more skill-based than most classes due to projectile drop and their lack of melee prowess compared to the other classes in the game, and the game being largely centralized around melee combat with the majority of classes being most effective in melee range and almost all rooms/maps not being super open. The Ruins are an obvious exception to this, but the game is still in EA and the Ruins may turn from being a standalone map to the "top level" of the original three tier map design.

[latent kite]

fr, fighter is just a tanky ranger rn, bro can use longbows crossbows, everything, just give him spells atp

[rough falcon]

YEEEESS! I would love to cast spells as a fighter.

[short heath]

They just need to properly balance the class. Currently there's legitimately not enough counters to Rogue gameplay. Armor stacking does nothing because they have too much armor penetration. They need to have slightly more flat damage but less armor penetration to make them lethal to squishies still while being still decently strong against, but not necessarily always lethal vs plate wearing classes.

[candid otter]

rework ranger and rogue

[short heath]

Ranger doesn't need a rework, they're pretty well balanced honestly. Stop playing on their terms and to their strength and you'll literally walk over Rangers.

[candid otter]

rework rogue

[atomic yacht]

stop playing on their terms... walks into a trap i couldn't see on a corpse and get tripleshot

[short heath]

I do agree that Rogue needs a bit of a rework, as I said above.

[short heath]

It happened likely more than once to you based on this response - sounds like you need to learn from the fact that Rangers place their traps in inconspicuous places.

[atomic yacht]

no it happened once recently

im just still salty

usually rangers arent smart enough to put their traps in creative places

[short heath]

🤣

"Herp derp, arrows, trap, quick shot blue longbow hahaha me monkey"

Unga bunga Ramger goob eheheh

[crude aspen]

Sorry for my bad English, but listen to my rant, there's a class that needs a Nerf or Skill Removal, you see, the Class is the only one that starts with 35 agility lv 1, it makes your attack speed and movement above the others, but Let's talk about his kit, Rougue has Invisibility (in all games he is too strong, mage example of his nerf), Rougue has Double Jump (impossible to balance this since s3 we see this) you need to go back to s2, without double jump, Rougue has Ignore armor, Rougue can use Stileto, Kris, Castion, Rapier, a huge variety of good weapons, in addition to his ONLY weakness being ranged, troubled by a HandCrosbow 😄
If the rougue is an agility class, short distance, don't force him to do a Double Jump, nor the Crosbow for him to hit from a distance, because that in itself is Over for his kit, after all he has his invisibility which AI, turns to the nearest opponent.

[stable moon]

Please patch the game outside of UK peak times

[arctic shadow]

dont live in the uk 4head

[crude aspen]

That's because I didn't even mention that because it's the most popular class in the game, it becomes the most skilled because there's a variety of people playing.

[runic musk]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493472/update-controller-support

Have you guys tried playing with a controller yet?
Just noticed the game is almost playable with one.

[graceful yew]

Hey guys, I made a submission on the suggestion site to turn the level-split lobbies into a “Prestige” system. Players would be able to self-wipe by “Prestiging” at any time after reaching level 20 (replacing the level 15 split this time), gaining a level of Prestige. Trading would be unlockable at any time, but doing so would put you into “Endgame” queues with other Traders and Level20+ players. At level 20 you would unlock trader regardless of buy-in, and be placed into “Endgame” lobbies. At this point, you can choose to wipe your stash and start from level 1, or continue playing in Endgame lobbies.

The goal here is to facilitate an optional, player-driven wipe schedule that allows players to use and encounter gear of all kinds, fighting to climb in levels with self-found gear with a variety of progression, as well as incentivizing using gear to keep lobbies varied by putting a sort of limit on how long you can use it which helps the issue of budget grey kitted players filling lobbies.

Vote here: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493402/make-nontrader-lobbies-into-a-prestige-system

[valid atlas]

please don’t run away player base with constant nerfs buffs patches. maybe get some feedback discusss possible changes before implementing or being more transparent about the reasoning behind said changes but ur giving the trolls ammo by constantly patching every other week. Love the game to much to see if die because the devs actually care and want to implement balancing

[scarlet temple]

MAKE COMBAT GREAT AGAIN

[upper hearth]

We should get more rogue counters, Light area reveal increase by 200-300%, torches, thrown and held reveal rogue in a small area and if revealed they lose all ambush buffs.

[jade monolith]

a slower update cycle would kill this game so fast

[upper hearth]

I do agree with @valid atlas with the feedback discussion. It would be cool if we could have a meeting even between big streamers and polls to view the player bases discussion. Though that would invite trolls.

[patent mauve]

It's not a bad idea, I'd prefer the oil lanterns right click shining spot should reveal rogues at varying distances depending on rarity, and torches/regular lanterns reveal on contact/ small radius, and when thrown.

[visual pulsar]

Drop Rates and High Roller participation solved - Read and leave your opinion. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493489/drop-rates-and-high-roller-participation-solved

[upper hearth]

True! That would make the lanterns way worth it again to carry and use, especially in the offhand in certain scenarios.

[upper hearth]

@grave condor You'd like this

[dusky kernel]

Someone should make the lantern thing an official suggestion
A+ out of 10, would upvote

[upper hearth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/490524/make-lanterns-reveal-rogues-when-you-use-their-light-source

[scarlet temple]

ADD A FISHING MINIGAME

[dusky kernel]

Upvoted 👍🏼

[scarlet temple]

ADD VEHICLES

[autumn raven]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492770/invisibility-rework-in-general

Instead of changing the duration of the invisibility, you can rework it like this

[hardy sentinel]

Tbh This is the first time im complaining about it, but rogue is ridiculous at this point. You guys need to severely nerf the 1 shot build, why are dudes running around with 36 agility and bursting through 60% DR before you can even swing back twice? 90% of my deaths the past few days in GCHR are rogue 1 shot, and they don't even need gear.

[timber viper]

Just make it that if u have been 5+ secs on hide, you get the bonus

[scarlet creek]

I think that armor rating should be buffed at the low end and nerfed a bit more at the high end. Make it so around 60 or 70 armor rating you get around 25-30% physical damage reduction. And have around 150-200 be the new 50% point and have anything higher than that be insanely hard to achieve. Buffing the low end would make people have more of a chance and take less damage. It also gives a reason to wear armor as some classes because usually it's better to just not wear armor since it doesn't give enough of an advantage and weapons scale faster than armor.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493226/buff-armor-rating-at-the-lowend-and-nerf-the-highend

[weak plover]

give warlock some sort of range and either a report button or allow me to go through teaming case files you guys do nothing about reports have evidence and everything the chinese players on oce are horrible for it ruining gameplay and grieifing in general

[granite plinth]

game is dead now ya?

150g HR is pretty cool

[noble lantern]

me and my friend kinda just spitball to eachother ideas and we came up with one that i like alot, the team is trying to slow down the game right, so what if you guys make all the weapons do like half as much damage as they do now, that'll make it so you dont insta die to rogues, gunned down by ranger, and one shot by barbs. i think there is alot of potential behind this statement, maybe you guys could make an experimental version somwhere on the game map? anyways thanks for reading this 🙂

[languid spoke]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493506/add-an-instrument-volume-slider

Add an instrument volume slider. Playing as a bard is miserable because I have to choose between ear-splitting music and being able to hear footsteps.

[wind dust]

How does one add an actual suggestion. Like to the suggestion page with the voting

[spice stump]

*if you dont wipe asap: please put all pre nerf gear in line with the nurfs -- best players in the game are all running +3 attributes combined with pre nerfed weapons better than unique items, making their power levels unobtainable on top of already being the most experienced and highest skilled players. seems very unfair for the rest of the player base

[long nacelle]

Wouldn't it be cool if items had item powers or something similar and instead of getting qued by character level you qued by item power grouping? That way you dont get rolled in the dungeons in base gear by the people with full purple kits.

[small furnace]

How does everybody feel about the HR changes? I think it's good they're trying stuff but I don't think this will fix the problem, HR lobbies were already only like 50% full, so putting a player cap on them doesn't really solve that problem, and the extra ante if anything will just push more people away from it.

[wind dust]

Nerf ALL extra stats, the only real problem with balance in this game is late game and even mid game gear is 5-10x stronger than the early game stuff. Keep all stats but nerf them heavily so scaling isnt "one shot anybody"

[urban apex]

im so insanely tired of rogues ratting around and jumping me out of nowhere and not being able to do shit about it

[mystic turtle]

Hey what if the warlock had a spell that would take buffs from enemy adventurer, let’s say a cleric applys bless to himself, the warlock can cast a spell that would take that buff in this case the clerics bless and give it to the warlock but have 1/6 of its time shaved off in other to keep its balanced. It would take more health than a cure of pain, about the same health a hellfire cast takes. I think this would be a good idea for the warlock to help with the whole death ball meta that the game just resolves around. It’d make the cleric actually think about buffing. It’ll shake the meta up I believe and a good way to course away from teams forcing themselves to have clerics or brads and just wiping lobbies unless you have your own cleric and bard

[daring trail]

its miserable, didnt have 3 people earlier, but was running duo HR crypts, most amount of people in a lobby was 6/12 ( so 4 other people )
I was profitting like 60-70g if i didnt loot gear to sell.

So far, i see no reason to do HR. Its all risk with little reward lol, if you want pvp you might aswell run normals right now

[pure basin]

Double or triple everyone's HP, and fix the str multiplier.

[urban apex]

more hp would definitely be good, would make winning fights take a lot more skill

[fast lily]

They're trying to stop a bunch of naked Rogues from spam entering the HR lobbies. I've been watching a handful of streamers and when 50+% of the lobby is ungeared/no-gear folks that play hide and seek with you the entire match and scavenge loot off the ground from your PvE kills for gold, it doesn't really look well for the game, nor does it make the game more competitive or interesting for highly geared players. Putting a high ante up = people are not as willing to just flop over and die.

They're also trying to see what the extremes for the game look like in both directions. 0 ante has resulted in too many low-geared players going into HR with no risk, and I bet high ante will cause the lobbies to be rather difficult to fill but overall match quality will be higher.

[daring trail]

I guess it depends on what quality you are looking for.
In all of my HR crypts games today, its been nothing but rogues, I will say there is less non-geared rogues, but there is still gray kits entering.

[small furnace]

To me it doesn't look like they can decide whether the good gear from players or the reward of looting is the reward of HR.

The way they're setting it up right now it it just fundamentally seems like a rogue meta. Rogues can outrun any class in the game, they have hide to reset aggro and give you the loop and other perks/skills that just let them get away.

Comparatively every other class has a difficult time escaping from encounters, if you encounter a squad that is more geared/skilled than you, you're just kissing that 150g + whatever you spent on your kit goodbye. When you think about it that way, why would anyone run anything BUT rogue?

I don't know how they're going to solve this problem. What they've done right now is make it worse for... well, everyone. The people who crave PvP have less people to fight in their lobbies and the people who just want to try and break even/make a profit will have a harder time doing so with the 100/150g ante.

[fast lily]

Ideally, only well geared people are actually entering HR lobbies to fight for the best loot in the game and willing to fight other players for it.

That simply hasn't been the case since early access's release and I can tell they're trying different things right now to remedy it. I personally believe a little bit of innovative pickpocketers jumping into HR is fine and actually healthy gameplay to keep everyone on their toes and is cool emergent gameplay but watching the game evolve to be hide-and-seek for people pushing leaderboards instead of teams fighting against each other has been silly.

It'd be cool if there was a middle ground between HR and normals for people. Make HR the riskyest and the best loot and count for leaderboards, Middle Roller for people under that, and normals for much less risk but least reward.

That's probably split the queue up too much though.

[inland bobcat]

put up a new suggestion-
Imagine having a deeper part of the backpack like a second inventory that you can only access when resting, giving players something to do and will help free up space in their easier to reach parts of the bag.

[glacial spruce]

suggestion for rogues, stealth is on a charged ability like second wind. They get 2 chargers and can move as many steps as they want but once its gone its gone without a campfire. just needs a rework.

[fast lily]

They should require Rogues be in low light to stealth, if they change hide at all.

Or maybe they come out with higher quality torches and higher quality torches can increase your range to nudge rogues and throwing higher quality torches where you think rogues are can reveal them.

[jagged flicker]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491649/give-warlock-kris-as-an-option-because-its-spooky

[fast lily]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493528/make-torcheslanturns-reveal-hidden-players

[twilit hazel]

mining should scale off of strength, only makes sense. hit rock harder get rock faster.

[scarlet creek]

How about the higher ur strength the higher chance you instantly collect a rock?

[twilit hazel]

i like this

[scarlet creek]

Like at 5 strength you have no chance and it goes up by 1% each strength point. So at 30 you have a 25% chance to instantly collect an ore each hit

Or maybe each strength point is 1% chance

[twilit hazel]

welp back to the caves to hit more rocks thanks for the input

[scarlet creek]

Good luck, I just go there to find jewelry and stuff.

[vestal smelt]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493537/add-item-power-for-forbidden-naked-going-to-hr

[stark wave]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493532/level-15-should-put-you-into-high-roller#comment554339

[grim moth]

This is an alternative to what I was saying which was nerf dmg all around. Or ttk the “time to kill” but then they would also have to adjust AI health pool. Unless pvp dmg and pve dmg can be separated

[grim moth]

I wouldn’t say as many steps as they want. What would be the cool down timer? Like how long could it be active?

[slender marten]

Game needs frequent wipes until quest (missions) are implemented. As it is right now it gets stale about 2-3 weeks in with current content.

[obtuse socket]

Rogues need to be reworked, no competitive game should give rats a buff for being a rat. Invis should be more of a pickpocket/ evading, rather than an offense with perks given to further buff a rat gameplay.

[wanton swan]

WE NEED HIGHROLLER FOR THE RUINS FOR TWO MAN TEAMS

[jaunty crow]

Ironmace, online drops to 15k because now is impossible to play for casual players. People lost interest because of overgeared lokomotive party. In game should be gamemode without gear, only for newbies. For casual player fun to play only with same casual, but without pro players in high gear. This is very easy to do. A lot of examples in other games. Now you have a less time to solve this problem, because player get insult and return back to casual games. Casuals expect from Dark and Darker something like Overwatch, Fortnite, DOOM, but you create a too much complicated rogue-like deathmatches. IDK how, but do something like statistic balance, rating mode, casual mode without gear. Game was way much better on test. Now i played one month about 300 matches and escaped less than 30 times. This is too hard. In 50% of matches mobs kills me and in 50% players. I killed less than 10 players. You make only a pro players content, but 99% of players are casuals. Without them nothing gona works. This is top 1 priority task. All other problems are secondary.

[barren sonnet]

Here me out make a ticket that you get from mini bosses that lets you go into highroller for free aswell as a ticket to skip crypts and go straight to sell this ticket wouldn’t be sellable

[gloomy nacelle]

Buff light orb, I should not have to practically direct hit an invis rogue and then still die because even tho i took them out of it thats still somehow an "ambush"

[gleaming forge]

PVE Mode - Yes I suck at PVP - No I am not interested in "Git Gud" right now - So PVE mode for people like me. Please & Thank You

[slender marten]

Make sitting down give rested health quicker, it's to SLOW.

[fast lily]

This game is a PvEvP game. It's like asking League of Legends to add a PvE mode and officially support it.

[valid atlas]

100%

[fast lily]

yeah, squish down the difference between no gear and BIS

[eager ridge]

yeah but if the original idea turns out to be horrible and boring and causes the player count to die out drastically its probably a good idea to stray from it, youre retodded

[weak plover]

region lock china devs please do something everyday they get worse !!!!!!!! its actually discusting

[hearty tendon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492324/hr-incentives-for-the-future-questing-system

[round vault]

LOVE constantly dying to no outs in goblin caves at the very end, when im last alive. what is wrong with the devs? honestly wish nexon would of won the case so we could have a decent polished game.

[stuck perch]

You could make plate armor provide flat damage reduction (not increasing with quality)

[stuck perch]

Why do you wait until the very end to look for a portal?

[round vault]

because i didnt find any leading up that point?

[fast lily]

That's absolutely not true lmao, and no outs? I have only died once out of my entire time playing this game to not having outs. Portals are the least of the problems.

[midnight field]

Let's try to be a bit more constructive. What I do to always guaruntee me a portal is to always stick to the top floor of the dungeon, I find it easier to go down than it is to go up so it saves time. Also, the final visible white circle on your mini-map indicates the exact location of the final portal, try to get there first and hold your position!

[long blade]

cry baby cry baby. You hide in a corner until it's too late to find a portal. cry baby cry baby.

[round vault]

i fight everyone i see, besides wizards. and no its just poor game design, but what do u expect from devs that literally stole a game.

[fast lily]

The problem is the devs recieve feedback based on emotion rather than stuff that actual helps the game, like what you're doing right now. If you look at the feedback from the past week or so, nobody is complaining about the portals. There are players who consistently escape 80-90% of their games right now, and they only don't escape because they lost a team fight

[long blade]

wahhhh wahhhhhh leave the discord. Go spend some money on maple story so nexxon can feel better.

[round vault]

i see people constantly dying to there being no portals, its jsut poor game design when people just stand there as the circle closes in and theres no outs, i see it all the time.

[raven shoal]

rework the rogue please and also fix high roller NOBODY will pay 150 for the chance to die out of spawn and now normal dungeons have teams wearing full ring and pendant slots with blue and purple weapons/ armor how is a normal team with white or green supposed to compete regardless of skill? normal dungeon runs are being ruined for the average player /////// also the game needs to cut back / rework on pvp perhaps even making the lobbies go from 18 players to 12. 4 groups of 3 is way easier to manage than 6 groups also would make the map more decluttered and open up the CHOICE of PvP or PvE focus also opens up loot, exploration, and portals combat would still be there between players but this would allow for more diversity in playstyle

[slim vessel]

bro remove the ambush cheese on rogue ffs I'm tired of fighting a rogue as ANY class and getting hit for 60 health from a DAGGER from them hitting their ability. Weakpoint attack makes it even worse because then your armor is shredded

[zinc tundra]

please fix the hit radius for the curses on the warlock, the fact that zap has such a bigger hit radius is ridiculous. they both have the same amount of range and the warlock must get closer to do any sort of dmg, BUFF THE HIT RADIUS OF THE SPELLS FOR THE WARLOCK!!!!

[placid saddle]

they should region lock, a lot of farmers from other countries must be playing rogues

[fast lily]

Ambusher suggestion #5342 - https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493566/ambusher-problems-and-solutions

[wind dust]

You're clearly new here... the whole thing is NEXON is just being little cry babies about assets THEY SHELVED. without iron mace developing dark and darker there would have been NO game. PERIOD.

[wind dust]

Ngl when I get tired of being smoked in my region I jump on oceania or brazil (depending on time of day) but it's not a huge issue. Most everybody plays on their own server, and those who dont still suffer lag and lag death. Speaking from experience.

[neat mantle]

Make game fun you have my trust devs

[small furnace]

I think that's kind of still gutting it, I get what you're trying to suggest but a maximum of 45% with an average of like 20-30% for most encounters would still be gutting it.

My recommendation would be to just functionally change how ambusher works entirely and set a minimum time limit like 15 seconds. Which still achieves the purpose of getting rid of the second abusable case, but the first is kind of necessary cause that's just how rogues play. I understand that there's a bit of a fundamental problem with how rogues play being that they're currently one of the biggest problems in highroller as well but as the current game states are that's just how they are.

[fast lily]

Well, it's max 45 seconds before gear. More will (from all-stat) means the buff will last longer, too. You can get 60+ seconds. I agree, though, that your idea would work. I just feel like, thematically, Ambusher should imply you need to wait a decent amount of time before it actually works. 15-20 seconds seems reasonable I guess.

[dreamy rune]

can the devs please ban everyone that tries to sell money in the trade?

[small furnace]

I agree, at the very least they should probably make it so popping an invis potion doesn't give you the perk benefit for free mid-combat.

[celest pagoda]

YO ADD REROLL TRADER IN DUNGEON 100 GOLD

[compact bison]

Love DCing for 10 seconds constantly and dying to a singular mummy

[civic zodiac]

They just need to make playing for comp and gear viable. Rogue are mainly beginners that cannot get success in their game because its too hard and unwelcoming for beginner so the choose the easy rogue way with ambush and ez escape to try to get some gold. Nerfing ambush dmg would change nothing tbh peoples would still do it untill the game release content to make unsuccessfull and beginner able to progress

[compact bison]

I dont give a shit about balance, upgrade your servers

[civic zodiac]

I dont had any server issue ever except when they been ddos and i have several maxed char. Maybe try a different region

[rancid void]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493577/to-those-calling-for-a-rogue-burst-damage-nerf

[compact bison]

Can show you multiple clips (I have 5 maxed chars) of DCing for 20 seconds and connecting back dead. US East by the way. I have gigabit ethernet

[sinful bobcat]

it would be nice if you could only bring one class in per party and not just three stack rogue or ranger. promote teamwork instead of spam?

[rough rivet]

Make rogues not balanced around stealth. They need less strength in hiding/speed and more combat capability

[graceful yew]

Hey guys, I made a submission on the suggestion site to turn the level-split lobbies into a “Prestige” system. Players would be able to self-wipe by “Prestiging” at any time after reaching level 20 (replacing the level 15 split this time), gaining a level of Prestige. Trading would be unlockable at any time, but doing so would put you into “Endgame” queues with other Traders and Level20+ players. At level 20 you would unlock trader regardless of buy-in, and be placed into “Endgame” lobbies. At this point, you can choose to wipe your stash and start from level 1, or continue playing in Endgame lobbies.

The goal here is to facilitate an optional, player-driven wipe schedule that allows players to use and encounter gear of all kinds, fighting to climb in levels with self-found gear with a variety of progression, as well as incentivizing using gear to keep lobbies varied by putting a sort of limit on how long you can use it which helps the issue of budget grey kitted players filling lobbies.

Vote here: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493402/make-nontrader-lobbies-into-a-prestige-system

[stark sonnet]

Rouges are about to get nerfed into the ground or their abilities/perks changed up big time

[rough rivet]

good lol

[stark sonnet]

Enjoy it while it lasts, rats

[weary elm]

Hey guys, I made a suggestion for Wizard to get a skill that gives a temporary magic sword. Check it out and up vote it if you like the idea. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493590/give-wizard-a-magic-sword-skill

[main ledge]

Ey ladies n gents. I present to you a cool invisibility feature I believe would be an AWESOME addition to the game.
Basically my suggestion is to allow invisible players to see other invisible players. BUT this feature would work by also showing other players from other ongoing live matches also invisible. This would add some confusion and be a cool feature in general in my opinion. Show it some love, thx!

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493179/make-invisible-players-see-other-invisible-players-interconnect-this-with-other-

[lusty fractal]

Least obvious shill

[ember kayak]

git gud.

[dreamy rune]

this game is so bad just lost fully kitted gear due to disconnect

[dense sand]

welcome to Early Access

[dreamy rune]

sigh

[granite plinth]

Here’s a suggestion. Give nexon the game so it can be good

[vernal hedge]

Playercount to die drastically? Yep you’re a Reddit braindead hivemind

[finite lark]

you clearly have no idea how multiplayer lobby-based games work. unfortunately this will never be a thing

[forest notch]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493609/torchbearer-utilityminingconsumables-focused-class

Im sure this has been previously suggested in some form.or another but i think its worth talking on consistently

[crude zephyr]

they should only charge 150 gold in HR if you don't escape

[civic zodiac]

Tbh gold fee is fine since gold is barely useless ngl. Whats wrong is the fact theres no intensitive to go there instead of stomping low lobbies. They should increase loot quality alongside the cost

[raw summit]

HR Changes? How about you fix the rogue oneshot meta before you have noone playing ya game

[civic zodiac]

Every class got a oneshot or close to. Problem with rogue come from how hard it is to be a succesfull player in this game when you are not a skilled players so everyone choose thebstealthy class to increase their chance

In a 1v1 when rogue dont have tbe first shot by surprise its the weakest class of all. Remove the stealth damage and rogue is becoming a D tier class

[raw summit]

Xancord you are delusional, there's many things you can do to a class to make it viable besides giving them insane oneshot capability on fully geared players with default gear

I dont have an issue with rogues being able to ambush and kill people, I have an issue that they can do it to basically any fully geared class in their default gear, THAT IS A PROBLEM

[civic zodiac]

Every class can be scary even naked. Just go with a wizard in ur team or ranger to easy detect them and you wont get 1shot

[raw summit]

You're mental

Anyways, enjoy huffing your copium, Devs please look at that stats and make the changes soon! We love you ❤️

[civic zodiac]

Also in order to 1 shot they need to swing the dagger 2 time in order to hit the third with all the buff so its not a real 1shot deal

Range with the 3 arrow. Mages with their insabe aoe damage and speed when geared and fighter with the ms and heal buff are way stronger

[raw summit]

C O P I U M

[civic zodiac]

Ppl just dt know how to deal with rogue so they wanna make them useless. Wich i find it a lazy way to think its how a rogue need to be. Sneaky and lethal but squishie

[forest notch]

Rogues are a problem. More widely available ways to break their stealth and thereby canceling the ambush buff would be a good start

[raw summit]

there is no counterplay to a camping rogue, simple as that

[civic zodiac]

Range footstep? Mage light orb? Clerc prayer? Bard music? Want more?

Waiting

[vernal hedge]

default rogues one shooting fully geared?
man all these people must play a different rogue class than we have available

[civic zodiac]

Problem if the full purple player on low lobby. If you have no hide then if a team of char is in the game u better leave cuz u waste ur time. The game mechanic created the rogue problem by making the game so hard to be succesfull with average players

[slender marten]

Doesn't matter, rogue ends Friday

[vernal hedge]

oh yah? how so

[civic zodiac]

Rogue can only 1shot once fully buff stacked. If you detext him and make him waste his 3second hide dmg increase alongside not showing ur back u cant lose to a rogue unless you failed.

[slender marten]

They are going to heavy hand nerf like usual

[vernal hedge]

from what I gathered the nerf we will see is gonna affect everyone which will be scalling back added weaon damage and added physical damage, similarly to +all attributes

[slender marten]

Yep everyone getting cucked

[vernal hedge]

yah will be fun to see how it plays out, im already saving my +3 weapon gear for the weekend lol

[slender marten]

Major update without wipe would be surprising.

[civic zodiac]

Been only a month. Wipe now would pissoff so many ppl

[vernal hedge]

its major update but seems like still mostly balancing, they just have no clue on how to name updates

[slender marten]

Need another one, kinda boring without stuff to grind for. Plus there was another gold key dupe.

[vernal hedge]

but can't wipe at any point there an issue like this, theyll be frequent and from what I saw yesterday, the dupping is still not fully patched

[slender marten]

Honestly with the content we have now, monthly wipes should prob happen. Once they implement the questing stuff so we have an actual goal to grind for will be different. My guess is questing and training system are going to go hand and hand.

[vernal hedge]

problem is youll burn a lot of people out for this, and for accurate testing you cant just have the dedicated experienced players, you also need the casuals which make up a majority of the player base

like I wouldn't mind but I know that a lot of people would even just looking at the group I play with, a lot of them ply mostly base kit and invest the money they make a long the way in bis gear sets but dont use them till end of wipe lol

[slender marten]

Maybe, I rather wipe every 3 weeks. but I'm use to playing these type games where they have wipes

That first week after a wipe is the most fun 😏

Suggestion

Add media section in the discord where we can share clips/screenshots

[ivory quartz]

Why is everyone advocating for such quick wipes, Do you honestly stack gear that fast. I consider my self pretty decent, but I blow through gear relatively quick.

[ivory quartz]

By fully geared they mean that they have all whites a blue amulet and green rings

[gentle rapids]

That’s more than what I bring in lol

[ivory quartz]

Its a decent set up, but to think you are invincible with 2 greens and some rings is arrogance. Most of the people complaining about rogue simply dont want to put in the effort to look out for them. It requires a different skill set to constently listen for player footsteps and mob fights, remember where they are occuring and then to advance into new rooms slowly.

[hearty otter]

Use some of that money to buy an anti cheat. Ironmace full of actual apes and hampsters making this game

[gentle rapids]

Hey

[gentle rapids]

That would be true if audio in this game wasn’t already wonky and it’s not a “skill” to hear someone’s foot steps and at that point your counter play is to stat check which you might still lose

[vernal hedge]

interesting, I find the audio in this game to be really good(minus a few bugs of when you are in a small room or fighting in doorways) and its kinda ridicolous how crisp it is to locate someone from voip

[ivory quartz]

if there is enough gear disparity to lose a stat check to a rogue, you were going to lose anyone else. Rogue is prob the only class you have a change of beating if they are the one with the gear disparity in their favor, Every other class is essentially an auto lose.

[gentle rapids]

If they suck

But good luck taking less than 50% from the first hit

[vernal hedge]

of course hearing someone is a skill, discerning accuratly where it came from, understanding the class by the sounds they make, weapon switching etc, having played has a rogue a lot this wipe it makes it so easy to expect when another rogue is present from the way they team8 plays and positions itself to the most obvius traps lol

[gentle rapids]

Maybe if the audio was better, but how am I supposed to know that the random footsteps don’t belong to a teammate

[ivory quartz]

I dont care if I take 80% from the first hit if I win the fight. If I have to expend all but 1 hp to win a player fight than it was hp well spent. Anyother class wouldnt leave me wiht 50% hp they would just kill me.

[gentle rapids]

Bruh 50% for the first hit then 3 more (at worst) to kill

You probably getting 1-2 shot in most cases

[potent rampart]

I don't know where you are taking your arguments from.

Tell me any other class but ranger and rogue that can buy a blue recurve/stiletto and absolutely nothing else and be able to seriously harass and delete other players in full greens and even blues.

[vernal hedge]

know what your teamates are wearing bootwise, ask them to stop moving, and this ones is more my playstyle but I play somewhat seperate from my team so that I can easily be an early warning system for players

[gentle rapids]

Bro sure whatever, all things I can’t do when I get trap nuked by a rogue

[vernal hedge]

then here another tip, play rogue for a week, youll quickly learn how to think and play against rogues

[potent rampart]

Had a wizard in GC yesterday, complete blue, purple spellbook.

Wiped the floor with 4 people, me included. Died to a rogue sitting in stairways for 2 minutes that we couldnt have anticipated in any way. A rogue that only had a blue stiletto with crap roles. 3 hits dead before he could even Zap.

[ivory quartz]

A fighter or Warlock with a flachion can absolutely delete people, a barb can delete anyone with a blue axe if they hit you. And wizard dont need more than a white spellbook to delete a team. So no most classes can win fights with relatively little investment if they put it all in damage. You just dont like rogue and ranger because you are rarely getting the first shot on them. But that is why the other classes have armour and shields and huge hp pools to counteract that loss of initiative.

[gentle rapids]

I got a 14 rogue, didn’t touch hide because it’s a stinky crutch, did well enough avoiding people with weakrup but another problem was clearly visible, speed is too op in this game. All the fights I lost where because of my decision to fight not because the enemies killed me

[ivory quartz]

Really bad fucking wizard, should have been running 10 spells and just lightorbed the exit, any good wizard knows that is how you play GC. honestly that is completely his fault

[potent rampart]

Alright stick your head in the sand I am out.

[gentle rapids]

And light orb might not have revealed it anyway, light orb sucks huge ass

[ivory quartz]

I will amend my statement, I dont think he was bad, the wizard was prob mechanically good, but he knows their are rogues in GC. So he either purposefully choose to sacrifice his ability to counter them to perform better in other areas. Or he simply rushed the exit without taking his time, too high on his prior 4 victories. The story you told me only indicated why rogue doesnt need to be changed.

[ivory quartz]

You are correct that Rogue has plenty of tools to escape and avoid fights, but this game is about PVP and is balanced specifically for 3v3 PVP. Rogue needs to be able to do something useful in PVP engagements other than run around in circles. Right now that is doing big burst damage, and the class pays for it by being a glass cannon. Many fights with rogues usually end with either the Rogue dead, or so injured that they can no longer contribute to the fight, and that is if they even got a kill at all.

[gentle rapids]

Then make them be valuable in other ways that don’t suck massive ass to anyone fighting them, yeah they can get 1-2 shot but they can do that back? Make rogue have more hp less speed and less bullshit. Rogues need a change anyway, you can’t make an argument for current rogue not needing a nerf, at the very least ambush.

[dense sand]

anyone who thinks ambush+weakpoint+backstab is balanced is a delusional rogue main

[ivory quartz]

It doesnt need a nerf, it is fair and balanced, you just dont want to learn to fight it.

[gentle rapids]

Lol, funniest shit I’ve seen all day… day just started though.

[dense sand]

gonna have a hard pill to swallow when the balance patches come along here soon, lots of Rogues gonna be QQing

[ivory quartz]

I don't doubt Rogue will be nerfed in tomorrows patch, they nerf every class except fighter. I am saying that it is unnecessary, and that the reactionary balance changes that they continue to push are and will kill this game.

[dense sand]

It's not reactionary balance changes, these balance changes have been needed since PT1, the devs themselves admitted they havent focused on balance or taken it seriously yet which has been a mistake in EA, gears gonna get reworked and so will many classes perks and abilities

[ivory quartz]

they are very reactionary, and poorly thought out. I will go so far as to say that the Devs are incompetent when it comes to balance. Every Hotfix has been whack a mole hitting whatever Reddits complaint of the week is. One nail gets hammerd down and it pushes a new nail up. This will continue untill the entire playerbase has left.

[gentle rapids]

Just wrong, the nerf every class but ranger

[vernal hedge]

what kind of sense does it make for rogues to have more hp and be slower, thats the opposite of what their character should be lol

[dense sand]

just alone that rogues can take 3 perks (without any ability aside from hide) and have 90% Phys power bonus tells you they havent looked at class balance seriously yet

[gentle rapids]

Nope, I think they should be closer to slayer than the nuke they are now

[dense sand]

you must be new, or don't read what the devs put out, if you are that negative about the development of the game already I wish you good luck continuing to enjoy EA

[ivory quartz]

Yes but they start with -40% physical power bonus, while having the lowest base HP.

[dense sand]

with weakpoint they have 100% bonus after the -40%

[ivory quartz]

I have read and reread every hotfix, and patchnotes since Playtest 2. And I can hardly make sense of any of the balance decisions, unless I view it from a lense of pure overreaction.

[dense sand]

lol, so when they did the data dumps you couldnt draw any similar conclusions that the devs did from said data?

regardless of what you think of the devs, rogues being able to invest nothing but 1-3 shot a kitted player is bad for the health of the game

[ivory quartz]

Those Data Dumps are absolutely meaningless.

[dense sand]

Alright, well you just put your ignorance on full display, enjoy Early Access.

[vernal hedge]

define kitted player

[ivory quartz]

Do you just see graphs and think, wow devs smart. Do you even consider how they source the data in the first place, if it is even reliable.

[south topaz]

First the impossible to kill 92.5% Fighter.
Then the 16g Naked Wizard.
Followed by Buffball Barb.

Those meta are so cancer that they absolutely deserves the nerf, how are they overreactions?

Also that Swing Swing One shot Rouge are now the top most hated thing in the game right now accross multiple platforms so chances are it is going to be nerfed.

[vernal hedge]

no he probably sees "rogue is most played class" must be op, lets nerf it

[gentle rapids]

Fighter is though, well we don’t have EA play data but fighter has been the most played since PT1

[vernal hedge]

data is fun and all, but you can't just look at it directly, theres context and nuance that needed for you to take away key points

[gentle rapids]

wut

[ivory quartz]

I will some what defend the nerfs to Physical Damage Resistance, but to think that nerf isn't what led to the following buff barb meta is ignorant. When it comes to Wizard that class will never balanced its kit has too much utility speed and damage that a skilled player will always make it work unless it is nerfed into irrelevancy; which they have been trying to do with the heavy handed 50% nerfs constantly it shows they have no tact. And the recent nerfs to buffball were the worst most reactionary changes I have ever seen in a balance patch, and I played League for 6 years.

[gentle rapids]

It had to happen that way though, the nuke was literally everywhere

So did the pdr nerf, fighters would not die without magic

Magic in general needs a damage reduction 50 was too much but try 90

[ivory quartz]

Now I will admit the nerfs to bard where prob needed the class is a balance nightmare and should prob be disabled, but to explain how bad that patch was here are some examples of the redundancy of the blanace changes. They added a move speed cap, but then nerfed all the movespeed abilities, why not just gather data on the cap and adjust that instead? They nerfed Axe mastery removing its additonal weapon damage, but then nerfed achilles strike too, like they were unaware that achilles strike benefitted from the added weapon damage of axe mastery, why nerf both? They also hit Francisa for no reason. Then when they nerfed bard they made Tranquility only work while sitting, but also made it heal less, Did Tranquilty really need a double nerf? I can give you examples from other patches that show the lack of foresight with blance changes, but I would rather address the most recent.

[vernal hedge]

no it didn't lol, the nerfs to buffball recently were done in a way too heavy handed way and they skipped some of the easist fixes to it

[gentle rapids]

Idk what you’re on about cus they nerfed 3 songs really, yeah they where good songs but buff all still fully exists

[vernal hedge]

goes to show you are looking at things from one side only

[ivory quartz]

I wouldnt mind if they were nerfing shit by like 10% but they arent they are cutting numbers in half, and anyone with experience in games can tell you that is a huge fucking change. A 5% reduction in numbers can be the difference between meta defining and unplayable.

[gentle rapids]

Well if you want buffs you need a bard, cleric has mid buffs (apart from proc)

[south topaz]

56 actually, Clarity, Tranquility, Slience, Accelerando, Allegro(Stealth nerf) and Unchained Harmony.
The first 5 make senses, still salty about Unchained Harmony a bit.

[gentle rapids]

Forgot silence. unchained is fine, accel and allegro are still used

Tranq clarity and silence where the big ones

But tranq/clarity where too strong anyway

[south topaz]

There is one thing I still don't understand about bard,
Why is crappy tier music play sometime and not play the other time?
If I get 50% score I should always play the music at crappy tier, but no, the randomness makes that tier meaningless.

And because of the nerf, both unchained and Silence are better at crappy tier than good/prefect (For unchained, the aera is 3m/3m/3m from 3m/4.5m/6m, And Slience is mostly used to cancel spell instead of stopping them).

[vernal hedge]

but you are forgetting about one of the most important parts of those comps, wizard, they could make it so ignite+haste+invis are selfcast only
In the case of bard i don't have much issue with their nerfs other than tranquility which i think should have remained as 1 hp p/s but not needing resting(clarity should need resting) has this cucks bard as a solo support (specially against a unchanged cleric)

[gentle rapids]

Cleric is only heals again, bard is strictly buff now. Wizzy needs nerfs but the devs said that self casting is not the direction they want to take

[vernal hedge]

the way they decide nerfs doesnt make sense, like with the rogue invis changes, someone bumps into you are you are broken of invis.
This absolutely killed pickpocketing which was a meme to begin with but a pretty fun playstyle and makes it that the only way you can build rogue now is for damage(or invest stupid ammount to make a poison build that's shit), if the issue was the versatility off the invis then why don't we reduce the ambush damage multiplier instead, or increase its cooldown slightly.

[gentle rapids]

That was some counterplay they added I guess but breaking a rogue out of invis is just expediting the nuke

[vernal hedge]

exactly, this mostly only hurts the rogue that was trying to avoid the fight, the one that ready to pounce you will likely still have the jump/kill

[ivory quartz]

It was pointless counterplay, if you run into a naked rogue and dont realize you hit an invisible wall you are stupid, and as he said it killed the pickpocket build which encouraged rogues not to play in the toxic manner you hate. So the only effect of that nerf was increasing the ammount of nuke rogues you saw per game.

[gentle rapids]

Ok… they could revert that but hide would need uses

[vernal hedge]

@south topaz what happaned to your message xD, but you were asking about tomorrow update right? what we know of it if i read correctly

[south topaz]

I reply to the wrong message.
Anyway what is the current know balance changes next update?

[ivory quartz]

why would hide need a limited number of uses. I thought your problem was burst damage, shouldnt you just be advocating for ambush or weakpoint attack to get nerfed.

[gentle rapids]

Uh, nothing really only teases, mainly the bard rework (which might not happen) and new warlock content (very likely)

[vernal hedge]

starting with the no balance, but likely we are getting the finished or at least a big update to warlock, with potentially a summon or ability to control a summon
Balance wise we are most likely getting a second wave of bard chages(last weeks were temporary while they worked different way to change it)
Weapon damage and sources of added damage are likely also gonna be looked into, im im theorizing it will probably be brought down to +1 or kept at +3 but weapon only or weapons+jewelry only
That's the ones im confident we are gonna see

[ivory quartz]

no confirmation, but what I have heard is that they will nerf rogue, they will make some further changes to weapon damage and armour compression. and that they will also be adjusting how stats work. Either the attribute scaling or how much maximum stats can be rolled.

[gentle rapids]

Well rogues suck ass on cooldown, so if hide has limited uses they’ll get to that point, but that’s only if ambush stays the same

[sharp edge]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/493662/allow-fun-meme-builds

Vote on this now, fuck iron mace for removing meme builds. Fucking shit in my cheerios.

The church needs you my kin.

[gentle rapids]

No

[sharp edge]

damn monkey

[south topaz]

"dum dum poo poo head"
NGL good luck having people takes you seriously.

[vernal hedge]

there was also a video posted yesterday about a guy data mining DaD and taking a look at some of the stuff we are likely gonna see going forward.
the devs are okay with this but just ask that he doesn't post the video on the official discord so youll have to find it on your own but itll be easy

[gentle rapids]

🙈

[sharp edge]

It's not suppose to be serious, all I want is my fucking fists to do funny green goo and bleed

[gentle rapids]

Just play monk when it comes out

[sharp edge]

it's not out, they decide to instead shit on my cheerios

They're removing more content than they're adding

[gentle rapids]

No

[vernal hedge]

b..b..but new map in next 2 months COPIUM

[sharp edge]

: (
Fuck their new map bro, give me my fun back.

[gentle rapids]

No, no fun allowed only pain and getting shot by rangers

[vernal hedge]

is okay, at least the map guys aren't the guys THAT WILL BRING BACK THE GLORIOUS POISON ROGUE BUILD od's of HOPIUM

[gentle rapids]

Never

[sharp edge]

I'll give you a fucking banana, if you vote yes

[gentle rapids]

Hmm

[vernal hedge]

double it, I got a banana for @gentle rapids too

[gentle rapids]

No, fuck fun

[vernal hedge]

alright a arsenic laced banana coming your way sir

[sharp edge]

DAMN YOU MONKE

[gentle rapids]

🐒

[civic zodiac]

i doubt they will endup releasing content that gonna make the game more balanced tbh. game concept is good but theres no way to balance ranger and rogue on some maps without making them totally useless on normal situations... they should just let them open to more diversity build and stop their hardcore nerf/buff otherwise only 1 build per char will endup being viable... having op broken things is what peoples want so every builds should be op on their own way with flaws.

[granite moon]

Idk man I think theres a lot of people that dont like getting killed before the fight starts

[civic zodiac]

like in every game...

[gentle rapids]

I disagree, the devs said they haven’t focused on balance at all. It didn’t matter during the PT phase but now that the game is always up it’s glaringly obvious. They said balance was going to take a higher priority and that’s what Friday’s patch is most likely to be

Well not Friday anymore lol

[civic zodiac]

idk man. peoples with average and lower than average skill need to able to do some killing also. making everything balance would make every1 below average skill level to not worth playing anymore. some cheese build need to exist imo

[dense sand]

braindead take LOL

[lethal laurel]

nerf rouges.

[gentle rapids]

They’re also talking about lowering gear diff, that is bound to happen just give it time

[civic zodiac]

gear diff is the no1 problem in this game i do agree with this 100%

[gentle rapids]

Gear diff is something that’s probably going to change with patch 1… but we’ll see

[lethal laurel]

Gear is not an issue, gearing and difference is already changed and its good. Its players exploiting

[south topaz]

Gear diff isn't the problem.
Green Gear don't drop often enough + No one want to risk bringing anything more than white is the biggest problem.

[civic zodiac]

right now its rogue only to farm gold then gear another char. lose his stuff then back to rogue. balanced games would drastically improve diversity

[lethal laurel]

an entire lobby of rouges. The insanty of insta death 2 taps with them is the problem.

[civic zodiac]

u want them po play a ranger or fighter vs team of purple geared? come on, only rogue can deal with them or flee with their loot to escape more easely. problem is the reason why peoples play rogue and not the rogue itself

[south topaz]

Highroll are just unplayable.
You can get headpoked anytime, and all blue + Purple cost 2K
Or you just get steamrolled by +3 All Pre-nerfed weapon

[lethal laurel]

also the new matchmaking system is already being abused. I know of people creating new characters to get to the lower leveled lobbies and gear, then farm it, then delete, and rinse and repeat.

[civic zodiac]

the new lvl15 is just bullshit open door to grief. very dumb change

[south topaz]

Smurfers dream.

[civic zodiac]

imo the best change they could do is making a SSf game mode.

only way to balance the game. peoples who like gold selling influence with trades would just stay normal game mode

i know i would never play normal server anymore if they release it

[civic zodiac]

smurfers is these kind of game will always be. peoples are so dedicated to it i remember dark soul when peoples could spend 10hour on a new char just to go stomp beginner character with no chance at all to even compete with their fat overbuild low level char. no limitation of any kind would restrain them unless trading is removed entirely

[vernal hedge]

I wouldn’t call this abusing, it’s fun and how the system literally works.

What I’d call abusing is the guys doing that but before their first true game they play with a +15 char that drops them a full set

[lethal laurel]

Thats an exploit...

[civic zodiac]

thats literally what peoples do. they just ask their friend to transfer all their gear to their new character . then next game its to the other one turn.

[vernal hedge]

Id really like an ssf mode in the future but the worry I have is it dividing the community too much, making queues higher and lobbies to not start full

[civic zodiac]

i would take half filled lobby and longer waiting time anytime if its to have more fair match with SSF. and i am pretty sure a lot of players would keep playing if this mode was existing

[lethal laurel]

and whats sad, a person admitted they were exploiting, and nobody can do much bout it.

[vernal hedge]

So I have to be locked playing +15 lobbies and goin under 15 to enjoy a early wipe experience is exploiting.

Só fuck playing and introducing the game to new players because that be exploiting

[civic zodiac]

peoples below level 15 are not even new players most of times. just legit alts