suggestion-discussion

[tulip hill]

I've noticed something funky with Warlock's hit reg as well
both playing as them and playing against them, it seems like Curse of Pain is a pain to land
against mobs it seem mostly fine but I think there is some networking problem going on when trying to hit players, my bet would be some kind of hit validation
on top of that, if Hellfire is cast point blank it has a tendency to shoot off in a random direction instead of going where you were aiming

[terse pier]

no I'm sorry the axe skeles really need some wind up on their attacks

[glacial sphinx]

rushing backline is risky, its kind of all or nothing with the short duration and might still turn out badly for you if they react, if you get slowed by 30% it'd ruin the gameplay 100%

[frosty vale]

It is. I will be aiming right at someone, and it won't hit. Sacrifice is also really annoying because when you miss, it self-casts.

[ruby linden]

The fact that Warlocks can't use Maces is outrageous

[tulip hill]

risky or not, I personally don't think that should be part of wizard's gameplay
Also if they did go for a speed penalty while invisible I'd hope they increase the duration

[tulip hill]

on top of that, the risk factor is also present with the rogue, potentially even more so depending on the circumstance which as an ambush ability isn't always in your control

[chrome kindle]

Yes continue to nerf wizard and bard even though high roller is exclusively fighter and ranger bow spam

[devout bane]

The current character limit makes it impossible to have one character of each class.
Thoughts?

[tulip hill]

at the very least we should be able to have one of each class

[tulip hill]

I personally feel like reworks to specific mechanics is needed rather than buffs and nerfs

[tulip hill]

I somewhat see where you are coming from, I have seen depictions of warlock type characters using maces
But the real crime is they don't have access to the kris dagger
I'm not even a fan of the kris but come on, its literally a ritual dagger and the only person who can use it is the rogue (and technically fighter)

[terse pier]

Yeah the warlock weapon pool is really strange

[lime pilot]

Limit supports to one per team, This prevents Cleric Bard from being insane and you can revert some of the bard nerfs to make him playable solo, Being able to run two supports is ridiculous and you should have to choose between the options. This enables more unique team building and allows classes like the wizard/warlock/rogue to actually be played more, The Bard nerf was over done i get he is strong and Din of darkness was insane but this doesn't change the fact that now he is nerfed people will result to double cleric and bards will see less and less play resulting in a waste of a class

[terse pier]

Doesn't account for people who might not want to play as supportive bard or cleric

[scenic leaf]

They need an option to buy more character slots

[tulip hill]

I don't like the idea of limiting class selection and as SerGregg points out, those classes are not designated support classes, they simply have access to a lot support abilities
some could argue that wizard, with Haste, Invisibility, Ignite, and Slow could be considered a support

[lime pilot]

sure i suppose, guess we will see how the community reacts to double cleric +1, seems like its going to be the next thing people whine about

[tulip hill]

I doubt there will be much double cleric, a single skilled cleric can get the job done and you give up a lot by doubling up
my bet is Cleric, Ranger, Fighter which has been a very popular comp every since I started playing back in playtest 3 (maybe playtest 4, I forget)
its a very well rounded comp and I do wish it had more weaknesses
hoping once warlock gets more content it will maybe shake up the meta

[lime pilot]

yee thats been my teams comp for awhile now, i switched to bard because my cleric has not a single slot of stash space but they just gutted my boy sadge

[tulip hill]

as a bard advocate, what are your thoughts on them reverting the nerfs but adding a sort resource so you can't have all your buffs active at the same time?

[willow fiber]

just revert the performance nerf.. the perk doesnt make any sence in half of the songs..

[lime pilot]

I think the true fix would be that you cant cast the same buff until the buff is actually gone, like a cooldown timer on the spell that way you have to think about when you wanna buff and if it runs out mid fight thats on you for not playing it at the right time

But yes i wouldnt mind a 3 buff active instead of 5 as well

[knotty shell]

What do you guys think about my suggestion. Does anyone think it should cost gold to try it out or even spawn mobs?
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472738/add-the-old-tavern-as-a-practice-location

[jagged flicker]

We need more character slots. There's not enough to make one of everyclass base.

[tulip hill]

alternatively they could change the generic "Music Memory" skills into 4 different skills, one for each instrument
that way any given bard would have two instruments rather than up to all four and bards wouldn't have access to every single buff
but with that change it would probably be a good idea to change what songs go to what instrument

[broken bobcat]

second this 8 classes 7 character slots lol

[tulip hill]

since currently bards are taking most of the drum and flute songs atm

[ripe haven]

i got a fun idea that has nothing to do with game: during trades with another player, your character and their charactershould be sitting at the tavern table, across from one another in the left and right positions

[jagged flicker]

If we keep asking, politely, for more character slots surely they'll help us out.

[ripe haven]

its not going to happen any time soon. i got a reply back about it.

[jagged flicker]

at least they're aware. just gotta wait.

[tulip hill]

this would also cut down on the micro manage of having to swap both your instrument and song as what song you have selected could more easily be stored as a per instrument selection

[ripe haven]

: Maybe in the future!

[tender remnant]

How do I make a suggestion again?

[jagged flicker]

gonna delete my barb so I can try cleric seriously for once. Every playtest I just prioritized other stuff.

[ripe haven]

theres like a whole new place now. imiss the old suggestions box, but people kept asking for horses.

[tender remnant]

Horses!? Facepalm So we can't make suggestions anymore?

[ripe haven]

u have to go a website i forgot where it was; someone here should have hte link

would barbarian eat spicy buffalo chicken, or is he a bbq pork ribs kind of a guy?

[eager copper]

Why are high roller runs so short???? Kinda defeats the purpose of paying for extra loot but u dont have the chance to pick up anything cuz the zone closes wayyy too fast. By the time u finish 2 fights the circle is already small as hell, please fix high roller so we dont have to bring rubysilver in regulars

[ornate flame]

7 character slots... 8 classes... cmon i got 7 to level 15 and now I'd have to delete one to try the last class?

[chrome kindle]

Yes continue to nerf wizard and bard even though high roller is exclusively fighter and ranger bow spam

[proper saffron]

Why do I have less character slots than characters I can play?

[ornate flame]

its very sad

[lime pilot]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472775/limit-active-buffs-on-a-given-player

[tulip hill]

bit of an oversight and sadly one that is seemingly not a high priority to rectify, hopefully they will fix it soon enough

[proper saffron]

yea.. I just had to delete my bard so I can try the warlock.. Seems mighty feels bad lol.

[broken bobcat]

im trying to level every class to 20 this wipe but kind of hard if I cant make one of them lol

[knotty shell]

Shameles plug because this suggestion needs more upvotes. Please make this a thing it would be so benefitial to try different loadouts and make the stats much easier to understand.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472738/add-the-old-tavern-as-a-practice-location

[broken bobcat]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472782/make-available-character-slots-equal-the-number-of-classes-playable-in-game

I made one about there not being enough space to play all classes on 1 account.

[terse pier]

THIS is a no-brainer

[wooden seal]

make it easier for newbies!

[terse pier]

1v1 duel arena would be dope for unwinding after a stressful game as well

[novel umbra]

agree

[terse pier]

They shouldn't impose any limitation in what teams can be comprised of

[neat grail]

This game need a duoQ as fast as possible, 0 fun to play duo actually

[terse pier]

me and my rogue buddy disagree but yeah a duo queue would go crazy

[crude saddle]

bard gutted unfairly

[neat grail]

When you are rushed by the classic dumb cleric/bard/anyone else full blue/purple ( in normal game obviously) this is not fun anymore

[terse pier]

yea I think gear based MM would solve that issue

you could still get wildly imbalanced games in a duo queue

[onyx gorge]

bro whaat

[terse pier]

why should I get matched against teams with blues and purples as a level 1 fresh character?

[onyx gorge]

why not

[terse pier]

bad player experience, imbalanced, will turn new players off

[onyx gorge]

clearly not

[terse pier]

good talk

[lime pilot]

If tarkov survived with the same argument then its probably just a skill diff not hate

[onyx gorge]

i think you might just be bad ngl

[terse pier]

lol copy paste elitists gtfo

[lime pilot]

Ive watched full ruby silver get dropped by gray gear, there are ways to avoid instant death

[terse pier]

it's possible to make a hardcore game accessible to new players
Remember making the game more fun doesn't mean making it easier at a high level

[wooden seal]

lol

[terse pier]

yeah this is only ever gonna happen if there's a skill canyon lol

[blazing linden]

we've come full circle lol

[lime pilot]

Listen, all they gotta do is reduce how fast the zone moves in high roller and then the purple gear will naturally play high roller more

[tender remnant]

They need to add a Lich merchant that buys souls. Those who are not in your team, you can escape with their souls and sell them to the Lich.

[tulip venture]

It is literally a skill diff + gear diffbut there’s nothing wrong with wanting to make things more accessible to a new players. Not free but accessible

[terse pier]

This, gear absolutely should be a factor but it's too heavy a factor atm

[lime pilot]

Is there not goblin caves to do that exact thing?

[smoky marsh]

Skill difference can and will affect gameplay, but, refusing to acknowledge that gear makes up for near 70% of that is a bit wild.

I just finished a goblin cave run where I got one tapped by a fighter in pure purples.

That, is rather ridiculous to run into there lol. (This is normal GC, not HR.)

[jovial swan]

Hear me out:

[Portals]

Standing within 16 meters of a portal after 10 seconds deals 2 damage per second.

[terse pier]

Gear diff simply decides games too often

[tulip venture]

A lot of games discretely let players run against bots on their first run and make the bot easier just to let genuinely new players get their toes wet and lured in. My hope is for the biggest player base possible

[terse pier]

The zone and portal spawning need work as well atm
Also goblin caves being a "beginner dungeon" doesn't really work when you consider the dots and hard mobs like the centipede

[smoky marsh]

I would honestly more be akin to possibly a gear limitation for zones and runs. Lower zones, lower gear, so on, so forth.

[onyx gorge]

"hard mobs"

[terse pier]

That centipede isn't overtuned?

[jagged flicker]

Ruins: Spawning into the Wispwood is the wooooorst

[smoky marsh]

Most GC mobs are just learning attack patterns. It's the sweats coming in there to just pure pubstomp no gears is kinda.. screwy.

[onyx gorge]

you just circle the thing it doesnt hit you

[wooden seal]

if anything the "hard mobs" get cheesed too easily.

[terse pier]

And then you have to spent 5 mintues circling and tickling it until it dies when you could be having fun doing pvp or something

[smoky marsh]

You can genuinely crouch behind a small torch in its spawn area and it can't hit you.

[tulip venture]

Yeah but they don’t drop shit and are just annoying

[tulip gust]

hear me out cleric healing needs to be healing over time

[terse pier]

this is just annoying gameplay, who wants to kite a mob for 5 minutes for a grey drop
people are so obsessed with the PvE in this game being a challenge when it's not, it's just cheesing most ads and being patient

[onyx gorge]

guys lets just make the game with no mobs and just loot on the ground and then remove all gear and make it more skill based oh wait thats just mordhau

[jagged flicker]

centipede?

[smoky marsh]

@jagged flicker Yea, it's a silly cheese.

[terse pier]

You're just making baseless assumptions about people's preference, I just want PvE to be slightly deemphasize compared to what it is atm. Too many games are spent wwith NO player interaction

[wooden seal]

makes the game unique?

[terse pier]

Makes the game tedious, it's a PvEvP game I should be engaging in PvP every game

[smoky marsh]

If you're getting no player interaction you are definetly playing the game in a weird way. I've done near every test of this game and every single run, we run into people.

[onyx gorge]

yep ^

[wooden seal]

^

[lime pilot]

i run into multiple teams a raid

[terse pier]

I'm literally running to every zone in 3s as a solo rogue and I can exfil without seeing a single player

It's possible to have varied experiences guys

[smoky marsh]

The only way you're doing that is exfilling the FIRST portal or avoiding people. Hands down. I have not done a single run without running into at least 1-2 teams.

[wicked jewel]

Maybe the warlock class can get "curse of confusion", it will inflict the same effect as the bats in goblin cave

[lime pilot]

exactly you are looting chest hiding and extracting, if you were to look for people you would find it but chances are you are naked rogue grubbing

[terse pier]

Lol sure whatever you want to believe

[smoky marsh]

The zones -force- people together eventually.

[jagged flicker]

ngl cant wait to see how warlock fleshes out. Bard went from 5 spells to 20 on release so I got high hopes for warlock.

[terse pier]

PvE is just too grindy, by like 20%

[wooden seal]

lol

[lime pilot]

If you have trouble clearing mobs then waiting for teams that is 100% a skill diff

[jagged flicker]

aim for head

[terse pier]

man I'm literally telling you it's the time it takes to clear mobs that I have a problem with

[lime pilot]

mobs literally take 3-4 seconds to kill

[smoky marsh]

My buds stacked me with magical healing +4 and like near +10 Damage, and my curse of pain was just, murdering squishies in one cast + single melee. God forbid you get pain and suffering on someone, the healing is nuts.

[wooden seal]

youtube is probably pretty helpful to teach you patterns and how to kill the mobs

[terse pier]

Ok, just because I say mobs take to long doesn't mean I'm saying they're challenging, it is more a test of patience than it is of skill.

[chrome kindle]

Yes continue to nerf wizard and bard even though high roller is exclusively fighter and ranger and cleric

[onyx gorge]

bro stop typing you are just wrong

[terse pier]

that's cap and you know it, boss mobs and things like mimics are just unecessarily time consuming to kill for largely mediocre drops, at least in the normal dungeon

[chrome kindle]

@onyx gorge Look at leaderboards lil blud

[lime pilot]

Tell me you have gray items without telling me

[smoky marsh]

I think the only thing I really want to see is possibly a loot restriction on gear taken into scertain zones. Can find and equip new gear just fine, but going into say Base tier GC as a full purple fighter is just, "Nobody has fun" lol

[odd coyote]

did the bro get kited while in heavy armor?

[terse pier]

the game should be balanced to account for grey items, higher tier gear is far more important for PvP anyway

[onyx gorge]

yeaah i just did you are wrong outt of top 30 there is 9 ranger/fighter lol

[lime pilot]

nah man it was a bad ass warlock with a long sword parrying him man it was insane

[odd coyote]

a light fighter with all greys kills goblins in one second and skeletons in 3 hits

[terse pier]

naw

[lime pilot]

Im saying dude, Greg is just bad xD

[smoky marsh]

I mean, May is right, I run slayer fighter alot, it shreds AI.

[odd coyote]

oh, longsword, love that shit but i'm bad at longsword parrying players, the riposte on a grey hits for 60 on each hit, headshot for 90

[wooden seal]

skill diff > Gear diff for sure

[terse pier]

lols I'd skill gap you

[odd coyote]

iirc orange longswords can riposte for as much as 122

[lime pilot]

you can speed clear rooms on all grays if you know how to play the game

[wooden seal]

i mean i can get past the mobs LOL

[chrome kindle]

@onyx gorge Seems you can't count lil blud

[smoky marsh]

Both yes and no, sad side of that is pretty situational, A mid skill player in full purps has a damned high chance of killing a high tier in greens. Its just the sheer damage difference on like, a single hit.

[terse pier]

You're just proving yourself to be another elitist D&D player who wants the game to be a PvE grindfest when the devs have already said they're never adding a PvE mode

[onyx gorge]

lol bro is just delusionla at this point go look at top kills

[wooden seal]

got me rofl

dont remember them ever saying there was gonna be a pve mode 😮

[chrome kindle]

@onyx gorge Kills ain't the same as overall score lil dude

[terse pier]

mobs take too long to kill, too much of the game is spent killing pve enemies which have no variety to them. PvP is different every time and that's why this game is as big as it is, hence the PvP should be emphasized more

[unkempt basalt]

Warlock should have a darkvision perk

[lime pilot]

i kill multiple rooms of mobs and fight numerous teams everygame, you literally just suck greg idk what to say

[onyx gorge]

no one gives a fk about overall score lol

[odd coyote]

if it takes too long to kill mobs then you're playing badly

[tulip hill]

darkvision would be extremely powerful, it would need some kind of condition

[terse pier]

No, it just takes too long, doesn't matter how well you're playing. If you want to kill mobs it's a time commitment. That makes sense for bosses.

[lime pilot]

Greg has got to have the worst takes ive seen in my life, would love to see this dude try tarkov

[odd coyote]

dude a light fighter on all greys will quite literally kill one goblin per second

[weak vale]

With a well organized group, cleric barb and wiz, we clear rooms of mobs in 10 seconds, Mika vista+ ranged+ dps, ezpz

[smoky marsh]

@terse pier I'm sorry man, I'm not gona say it might be a bad or good thing, but, the issues you're having with fighting PVE is just..not seen almost across the board. PVE is pretty quick and easy. Maybe you're not used to some of the patterns or it might be the way you're going about it, but along with most the people here, PVE is pretty...much a light part of the game for us.

[chrome kindle]

@onyx gorge Trash take. This game is PvPvE not just PvP lil bro

[weak vale]

@terse pier we talked about this yesterday, why you still baiting these people lol

[terse pier]

I've been playing this game since the february playtest so I am very used to the PvE. I stand by my point it's simply too large of an obstruction to the most fun part of the game which is PvP

[odd coyote]

then you literally just never got good at it

[smoky marsh]

I mean, if you're still struggling to get through PVE efficiently, I don't know what to tell you.

[lime pilot]

SerGregg TRASH

[terse pier]

SO many lobbies where I watch the leaderboard >60% of players die to PvE

[smoky marsh]

Maybe the game just isn't for you? Sometimes they don't click with people. Or maybe you're just struggling. Happens to people.

[weak vale]

Yeah tbh. Greg you're just digging a hole. Team comps completely negate the challenge.

[onyx gorge]

yeah you're men t ally ill got it, keep crying about wizard nerfs lil pup

[odd coyote]

then stop playing normal goblin cave with a pile of noobs

highroller mob killing is slower, but thats because you have nightmare mobs around and the baseline are elites, but for the normal map? light figher will do the hit combo and down one goblin per combo

[lime pilot]

greg forgets farming mobs isnt mandatory and you can just rush down a team if you really wanted to, crazy

[odd coyote]

a murder ranger will do a goblin in 3 hits with the shortsword in all greys, the shortsword combo takes 1,14seconds on greys

[terse pier]

I know this is a wild concept but the game should be playable for noobs too, and the least they could do is add SOME kind of matchmaking to stop normal games being filled with players dying to pointless PvE

[odd coyote]

it is playable, its called learning, they are learning now that the game is out the same way you supposedely learned during the playtest, but given how much you struggle with pve i don't think you actually ever learned

[lime pilot]

this dude is the reason they added bots into battle royales

[odd coyote]

i bet he plays rogue

[weak vale]

Hard pve and pvp are the main principles and reasons to play this game. Dont play the game then, go play cod for constant pvp action brotha. Or minecraft. Idk.

[tulip hill]

I feel like any game is going to have a minimum skill requirement
those who really want to learn the game will eventually learn and get better at surviving PvE

[weak vale]

Or play another melee based game like the couple good ones that exist if that's your thing. Clearly this aint.

[terse pier]

It's not a struggle to PvE. It just takes too long man. Mimics are everywhere and drop awful loot with unecessarily big hp, bosses drop awful loot and are largely not worth the effort. If I wanted easy PvE I would be asking for damage nerfs but I don't want that because the player should be punished for mistakes.

[distant night]

can we get a gamemode without pvp, and also no pve, also remove the exit portals, just the trinkets.
actually remove the trinkets too since we cant leave the dungeon.

[terse pier]

The PvE in this game really isn't as skill based as you all like to think

[odd coyote]

medium mimics take 4 hits by a greys light fighter, 5 by a greys ranger, both are less than 2 seconds hiting it

[weak vale]

So you want less enemies and less loot to be avaliable so it's easier to get to players. It boils down to you still wanting it to be easier. You can get around pve without doing pve.

[lime pilot]

greg lets see your stash

[odd coyote]

if you want better loot go highroller, the normal dungeons are low quality loot

[smoky marsh]

Its not really a matter of -skill- for the PVE, but if you're genuinely struggling with it, It feels like something isn't clicking for you. You might not be dying, but you are NOT being efficient or effective.

[terse pier]

No? You're just putting words in my mouth

[tulip hill]

thought you said 60+% of lobbies dying to PvE was one of the problems

[amber garden]

Can we get one more class selection in character creation? I wanna have one of each character :(

[terse pier]

The skill floor is low, the skill ceiling isn't very high

[distant night]

real talk tho private/local servers should be added

[odd coyote]

both seem above you

[lime pilot]

go play naked rogue in hell, thats what i do when im bored, but players like you greg would never make it out lmao

[weak vale]

Seems like you're just baiting reactions then. You want to be able to get to players without doing pve. Run around pve and dont fight them, listen for players.

[terse pier]

ahaha GOOD DISCUSSION BRO

[amber garden]

Yeah! I do think the loot gain should be drastically reduced/localized only to that server to prevent easy farming

[distant night]

uhh not in that sense, i just want to pvp vs my friends

[terse pier]

https://imgur.com/a/RHNSF1r

[tulip hill]

well yeah, once you learn the mobs and movement enough the PvE becomes what it is intended to be, a hazard, one that takes time to clear or poses a risk of you choose not to clear it

[distant night]

would also allow the more skilled fighting community to flourish

[weak vale]

Exactly. Any rebuttal to this is just wrong.

[amber garden]

Nvm, I thought you meant just having 3 people enter a dungeon, I was gonna say that would allow really easy farming, mb

[terse pier]

Granted, and I still want that. I literally just think health values are too high for normal dungeons, by something in the range of 15-20%

Just in case you do want to skill check me https://imgur.com/a/RHNSF1r

[odd coyote]

fucking knew it, rogue

[smoky marsh]

@odd coyote you can always tell when it's a rogue XD

[terse pier]

I've only played rogue since release, otherwise I'm a cleric + fighter main

[odd coyote]

@terse pier go play highroller and stop complaining about bad loot on regular

[tulip hill]

well you have to keep in mind that the starter weapons are absolute dog water, white weapons are such a huge upgrade when it comes to clearing mobs
iirc, the crypt is not suppose to be explored by those using the starter kit

[weak vale]

Try barbarian and come back talking about how it's too slow to kill enemies.

[terse pier]

I'll avoid the cheater lobbies for now thanks

[terse pier]

Barb needs a buff arguably, but it's slow and boring for any class with greys. Even with whites or greens some ads are just too tanky to the point it's frustrating

[weak vale]

Double axe 2 shots any enemy. 50g in trade post for a blue. Barb is supposed to be Frontline. Rogue is not.

[static gazelle]

So after now playing everyday since launch during my free time I've noticed for squad play, the "Meta" is to run Fighter/Barbarian, Cleric, Bard. And it's clear that buffs and by extension buffing classes are extremely powerful (Borderline overpowered, but still can win against them if they play poorly or you out play them with better gear/Positioning) and now with the bard getting nerfed to try to counter this, it's clear buffs need to be looks and in my OPINION, changed. For one is change or remove the bards perk that allows them to skip notes and still get great performance (Sorry don't know the name didn't buy the class and it just went free while I'm at work) this perk if kept should not speed up the song, it's cheap and takes any skill away from the "skill check", or if it's kept, keep the speed up but only allow it to get a good performance (or whatever is second best, again haven't gotten to play the class just have a friend that does). Ideally on my opinion, Remove the perk, replace it with one that speeds the song up, this would allow quick casting BUT you also need to get better cause the skill checks with be much quicker too. Next for all classes, buffed needs a rework in away, as it stands right now the way to win most of not all even encounters is to stack a bunch of buffs on your brawer class and let them loose, this works both for PvP as well as boss melting, I suggest we have a buff limit (example 5) with the oldest/first cast buff being replaced with a new buff that way buffed still can be applied and not wasted. This would do two things make it so you have to choose which buffs should be applied when and not just spam all I now, it will also make having a more varied team comp more do able and not a struggle. It would then have the added side effect with the Confirmation with paladin and this class with meld the Fighter and Cleric class, and will be able to both fight extremely will and tank, as well as buff themselves and companions.

[odd coyote]

so when people are better than you they're cheaters?

[terse pier]

yeah ofc I have a hole in my brain so that's what I meant

[weak vale]

That's your opinion. Don't complain about time to kill as a rogue when you aren't even willing to try the main classes meant for clearing rooms easily

[terse pier]

I play fighter bro

Literally am new to rogue only just hit level 20 for the first time yesterday, not touched rogue in the previous playtests

[terse pier]

Once again, anything that comes out of anyone's mouth is an opinion, so what's your point? I agreed with you lmfao

[stray wasp]

NERF CLERIC

[static gazelle]

Cleric is honestly fine how it is right now, what needs to happen is a buff rework.

[terse pier]

Agreed

[stray wasp]

No

[terse pier]

W hat's OP about cleric?

[stray wasp]

Cleric is the most braindead class in the game, no other class can heal so fast

[terse pier]

Yeah and they lack utility in other areas, they're the healbot class and taking that away from them would mean they're not clerics anymore

[stray wasp]

You literraly can just stand still and keep spamming buffs and heals

[glacial sphinx]

ofc cleric is the best healer lol

[static gazelle]

That the point of the Cleric. And they can only cast extremely fast if the take a book which is smart as fuck to do.

[terse pier]

Yeah that's a good point, cleric slow af

[stray wasp]

there are no other healers, cleric is dominating solo cave goblins

[wooden seal]

clerics are fun

[stray wasp]

Cleric is broken and braindead

[terse pier]

naw

[jovial swan]

Cleric needs to be hard nerfed.

[stray wasp]

Using a book is not being smart lmao

[jovial swan]

Probably reduce his HP by like. 10.

[stray wasp]

he shouldn't be able to heal in combat

[odd coyote]

barbs are stupid strong rn

[stray wasp]

lmao, fighter do everything the barb does better

[odd coyote]

a blue felling axe will oneshot most enemies on normal, and two shot on highroller

[terse pier]

Compared to fighters they're not meta imo

[wind river]

barbs melee swing is so slow. If you miss one youre dead.

[stray wasp]

Cleric/Fighter/bard is the only meta

[odd coyote]

everything that isn't fighting a 88phys res dude

[terse pier]

I was thinking they could improve the moveset of the axes maybe

[stray wasp]

Barb is the slowest class in the game

[odd coyote]

or oneshoting lighter people, or actually killing mobility rangers

[odd coyote]

stop walking with your weapon in hand all the time my dude, put that shit away, you don't need the -50move bardiche everywhere

[wooden seal]

Barbs are always first to die in the group lol

[odd coyote]

rogues are very meta and they're still very trash

[lunar quest]

Add button to place every gold to avaliable purse!!!!!

[odd coyote]

hold shift and rightclick the gold while having a purse in your stash

[static gazelle]

No sorry gotta disagree whole heatedly with you there, while yes as it stands they are the only healers, paladin has been confirmed and they are healers too. They weak as shit without gear, just like a Fighter they are gear dependent. Spamming buffs as a said need a rework, but goes for all classes. They care completely vulnerable while casting a heal and if there are solo with basic none magical gear the don't heal for much on themselves. You can easily get 2-3 hits on the if you close the gap as the cast as after they cast they have to switch weapons to fight back, you can punish that and bring their health back to pre heal or lower, making them have choose to fight or heal again. And for a Cleric using the book is smart as they can get the fast base casting speed compared to staff or ball. Just cause it's what every Cleric does doesn't make it not smart.

[terse pier]

PALADIN CONFIRMED??? YOOOOOOO

[lunar quest]

but i have gold in stash now i must put in bag and again to stash so anyoing :E

[static gazelle]

I'll find the post but it's among the list of confirmed classes and has been mentioned a few times.

[stray wasp]

Cleric is broken, that is why every comp have one, i can create a similar text about every class

[terse pier]

Rogues need to be balanced like that, double jump is just so cracked that the rest of their kit needs to suck lmao

[lunar quest]

I just played, after run sold all in merch few items drop to stash with lgold i dont even check stash and this how many goild i had now i must re drop 1k gold 😪

[weak vale]

Pickpocket rogue is endgame cheese, so much fun.

[terse pier]

I NEED to try pickpocket ty for reminding me lol

[weak vale]

Of course, 10 steps and whatever one helps with footsteps and ur good bro. You got it. Let me know how it goes lol

[terse pier]

[drifting totem]

We need to be able to create one of each character type.

[static gazelle]

Cleric isn't broke, buffs are since you can stack them with no limit, and of course people are always going to have the cleric it's the only healer, that doesn't make it "OP". Too add to that what's the other most utilized class? The Bard, why, cause it can buff too. The most common team comp you'll find the Fighter/Barbarian, Cleric, Bard. Buff are the problem not one class. You'd likely not see cleric as much if healing items where buffed a bit making them more viable and you'd see less of the trio o just mention if there was a buff limit. Every class has something that is broken, example Fighters second wind perk, unless you counter with a high dot damage, or the Warlocks anti heal(Haven't played the class just fought it which I can confirm makes second wind nearly completely negated). They need to reevaluate all the classes perks and ability and do a better job buffing some and nerfing others, example the fighters shield base is nice but shit. While 25 damage is great, the slow is meh and you already need to be on them to get it off, instead have to a knock back with a mall slow to re-close the gap, this would make the ability extremely viable making it a great escape for getting cornered by both players and AI. As well as allowing to be used to disengage a fight.

Don't blame the cleric for being the only healer, blame the devs for not having more healers or having shit standard meds.

[wooden seal]

the game seems a bit hardcore D:

[static gazelle]

A class about healing is to no one's surprise, is going to be good at healing. That's the point of a healer.

[static gazelle]

It's a bit of a learning curve, but it's worth learning, keep at it I was getting ass beat in back when I first played the playtests.

[olive mural]

When druid will be added?

[tulip hill]

@terse pier so I did some testing and took a barbarian using the starting weapon and axe specialisation (for a total of 40 damage) in to smack some mobs around
two headshots kills skeletons which is probably the most common mob, but even 3 body shots killed them so I feel like for barbarian at least skeletons have a fine healthpool
zombies (which I think has the most health of the normal enemy) went down in at most 4 head shots, though I'm not sure all my hits were actually headshots so it could be less
even managed to get a spawn close to the skeleton champion so I went for him. Wiffed a bunch of my swings but all the ones that landed were headshots. Didn't get an exact count but it only took about a minute or two, given I was the only thing damaging it with a starter weapon, I think thats fine
overall, barbarian's PvE damage seems fine, I didn't feel like I was killing the mobs too fast or too slow as long as I was spacing correctly and aimed for the head

[terse pier]

Yeah I will admit I haven't played barb as much as my other classes, in PvE I'm not sure he has problems, it's just the slow swings meant I had to learn different movement patterns like allowing enemies to swing first and stuff. Maybe it's just a skill issue/ease of use is low for barb

[grave matrix]

Can we got a role for people that want updates from the devs? Love to read what's going on here, but the constant @everyone pings are strarting to get to be a bit much

[rain rock]

wow thank god they nerfed wizard it was so overpowered /s

[grave matrix]

Make it default with an opt out even, but give us the option at least

[rain rock]

also ive played hella barb and naked barb with a white felling axe can legitimately 1v3 geared players easily since you just 2shot them

[ripe haven]

double fighters is fun with a buddy. you either curb stomp everything, or you both fall relatively quickly. high risk high reward funplay.

[static gazelle]

There is a good chance we'll see it this next major update or next, they seem to release a experimental class, them the next update or the one after, "finish" it and add a new experimental class, so we'll likely see the warlock "finished" next major update and could see the experimental version of the druid then and may be told what the next one is planned. I say "finish" this isn't a finished game and class get worked on every update and hot fix.

[rain rock]

Fighter, aside from damage resist stacking is probably the most balanced class imo

[tulip hill]

oh for sure, people underestimate how much effort barbarian takes to be effective
barb might not have any crazy tech but his sluggish nature makes it difficult to get clean hits in, especially in lower gear levels

[ripe haven]

this is not an opinion, it is a fact.

[terse pier]

I think second wind is perhaps a bit strong

[rain rock]

idk i litetarlly played barb for the first time and wiped a team in a 1v3 my first run

doesnt take much i will not lie barb is busted op with its massive health pool, insane damage, speed+dmg boost+health boost, heal on kill, instant break/loot

[finite lark]

Warlock is currently a bit too weak skill-wise. It is definitely one of the weakest non-geared classes. Should at least receive a decent range buff for skills and an extra skill to fill out the Spell Memory

[terse pier]

yeah I think grey gear barb is very strong is solos

[rain rock]

Grey barb +11 gold felling axe is strong in 1v3s lmao

[tulip hill]

to be fair Warlock is currently in their baby mode where they don't really have a full kit yet, like when bard first came out back in the playtests

[static gazelle]

Agreed, could have second wind reworked and the other abilities buffed not in stats in performance. Sending is really overkill cause how much DR we get, tho there are many abilities like barbarians that do allow for really high armor pen or the temp nerf to DR, thus why second wind shouldn't be removed but 100% nerfed or reworked.

[stuck tusk]

What if there was a solo queue that cycles through all the maps?

[rain rock]

if nothing else fighter should have self sustain like rangers and frankly im not sure why ranger even has it

[soft finch]

Good stuff dude

[tulip hill]

rangers are generally depicted as very self-sustaining, being able to survive on their own in hostile environments far longer than any other archetype, I understand why they have it

[ashen bluff]

I have a suggestion against cheats that are not aimbots. If IRONMACE logs the events of each action in the game, wouldnt the pattern of the cheater be a strong outlier?
Speedhack = illegal value of speed
rangehack = illegal value of range (distance between target and attacker should be within some margin)
All players which died to the cheater in cheater game get their gear back.

[static gazelle]

I'm not honestly not sure either, I know many of the perks and abilities have done root in D&D I'll have ask my friend what sustaining abilities she has for her ranger next session I've never even looked at ranger (Paladin for life some has to anchor the team)

[lucid granite]

While that could be possible if there's ever a lag spike server side everyone is getting banned lmao

[static gazelle]

That makes sense, I mean the ability literally says "Forage" in it. Tho that meat looks alot more prepared than something is forage 🤣

[lavish forge]

Block or filter chat, my screen is full of gold sellers spamz to the point I cannot click to invite someone in gathering hall

[bleak dagger]

more stashtabs please

[iron lynx]

You're on the right track but now you need to make sure the data differentiates between bugs, weird interactions, and real cheating.

[weak vale]

They pay kickback to ironmace and are allowed to advertise. Good game!

[ripe haven]

theres also the potential that someone has trained an AI on a 2nd machine, to exploit jumps and weapon swap bugs

[gritty sun]

ai swings / mosquito spit going through walls is pretty annoying

[ripe haven]

death beetles too

[tulip hill]

I'm a D&D nerd! I can answer this!
I'm most familiar with 5th edition so I'll talk about rangers from that
Rangers have an ability called Natural Explorer which gives them all sorts of bonuses when a terrain for their choice
one of those benefits is doubled the amount of food from foraging
They also get access to a spell that only Rangers and Druids get called Goodberry which provides magic berries that have enough nutrition for a full day as well as healing a very small amount
there are some other things like some more healing magic and them being able to be by far the one of the best hunters but those are the two that link best back to the ability in game

[static gazelle]

I can't play my fighter cause I'm out of room and will not trash gear that has good start just cause it's uncommon. Even a full green set with gold stats can dominate in goblin caves.

[finite lark]

Yeah. Must have at least one extra skill

[tulip hill]

whats the point in having it if you never use it :)

[soft finch]

?????

Thats a very weird version of gear fear

[tulip hill]

honestly the two skills (other than spell memory) are really nice all things considered
one is a solid burst of damage with the potential to challenge clerics and a short cooldown to boot
the other is a really nice get out of jail card that can be used tactically to bait enemies into a bad position

[odd coyote]

the biggest hinderance to rogues are their players, its the rogue mindset

[static gazelle]

Shit that's pretty fucking cool, I may need to make a ranger for a later campaign. It can join my list of back ups. Tho my Paladin has been really lucky on lvl ups last 5 levels (lvl9 right now first/second campaign ever the true first one was us getting the rules down then we had some more people that wanted to join and I want to play a paladin instead of a barbarian so we start over/anew) I've rolled 3 10s, a 9, and 8 so he's got some heavy hp.

[odd coyote]

put a fighter playing rogue and he'll do amazing, put a rogue playing rogue and they'll suck

[static gazelle]

Faxs my issues is I'm really good and Positioning with my fighter and have been really consistent with wins in always were a full lot now and I cant put more in my stash.

[tulip hill]

Rangers are really hit or miss depending on the DM since your core abilities are depended on who you are fighting and where you are located, but anyways, we strayed away from dark and darker, hope you have fun playing d&d

[static gazelle]

Yeah I don't like throwing gear away, I'll gladly loose it in the dungeons but I ain't selling it just cause it's green

[soft finch]

Have you considered selling it to make room for blues/purples? Its what I'm doing atm

[static gazelle]

Been a blast, already become money sink for me lmao

[heavy orchid]

I think a cool mechanic would be making torches in the dungeon go out after a certain time, making you turn them back on.

[static gazelle]

Yes but I don't buy shit, I like finding things

[soft finch]

Fair enough, I usually just vendor shit then stock up on Potions

[ornate flame]

shared stash pls i beg

[tulip hill]

I think it would be interesting if they added more torch locations but what torches exist in a given game is random
or maybe just if they are lit or not so you always have the option to turn them back on

[spark sedge]

bruh i was planing on playing bard but they destroyed him with these nerfs damn

[ancient rose]

Bros,
high roller is way too short.
made a suggestion to extend it

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472816/extend-circle-time-in-high-roller-it-closes-way-too-fast

[finite lark]

I mean skill inside the spell memory

[flint jungle]

i think we should have enough chararcter slots for 1 of each class, anyone else agree?

[tulip hill]

oh! spells, yeah for sure
I do find it funny that they don't even have enough spells to fill their spell memory
but the fact they do still have the spell memory skill I'm sure they plan on adding more spells

[tulip hill]

lots of people have been saying that, I haven't seen a single person disagree

[flint jungle]

@tulip hill great, i hope that changes then

[formal lake]

Rouge deserves some base luck like 50

[tiny mortar]

how does one even push players when all you do is aggro a million mobs on the way to the enemy player? its more of a pve game than anything

[lucid folio]

portal spawn mechanic in goblin caves needs to be changed to spawn a guaranteed portal on each level. Dying to rng should never happen

[tulip hill]

nah
though I do think they should rework the luck system using much lower numbers
given that it exists in increments of 50 they could just reduce it down to to where 50 = 1
then they could have luck be a roll able stat for gear without having to slap big numbers on it

[tulip hill]

keep in mind going down is a lot easier in much of the cave so you should seek to be on the upper floors to start then after verifying there is no portal dropping down to the lower level
there are a couple places where you'll still need to sprint through the zone to but sticking to the high ground at least lets you use the drop downs that exists

[lucid folio]

it shouldn't be necessary

[ornate flame]

cave rng is ass

[tulip hill]

why not? all it requires is realising that fact and a little bit of forward thinking in where you are putting yourself

[jovial swan]

You know if I have to consistently ask "why the hell did that happen", something's wrong. For instance, I got cucked by a Goblin Mage's fireball because it somehow didn't despawn after landing so I died in the Swarm.

I swear the devs need to go back and fix their PvE crap. Things like that can ruin the experience because you're so used to it NOT happening.

[spare patrol]

probably been suggested a 1000 times, but we need 1 more character class

[lucid folio]

because it's a workaround that doesn't solve an actual problem, being portal rng

imo, rng in games should not exist outside loot drops period

[worn agate]

I think a system that tracks how many kills a weapon has on it, or how many people have had that weapon would be pretty cool (similar to the strange weapon system in TF2)

Mostly thinking of monetization options because classes are now free.

[lilac silo]

I agree, but this ain't the game to care about no RNG
random matchmaking, random loot, random spawns, random circle, random dungeon layout, random portals

that philosophy should only be put towards COMPETITIVE games, which this is not

[lucid folio]

minimizing it by removing portal rng would make it better

literally no reason for it to be in the game

[distant crow]

would be good to have a report button for players which spam gold buying in the trading channels and gathering hall

[lilac silo]

yes there is, people would just camp the predictable spawns
you're not thinking ahead here

[untold widget]

Dev nerfed Bard so hard... Bard is not an easy class to play at first, now it is not just hard and pain class and even weaker than before.... it should be strong but hard to master not like decent but very hard to master.

[tulip hill]

without portal location RNG wouldn't it become extremely easy to lockdown where the portal is going to spawn before anyone else gets the chance to get there

[lucid folio]

not "make it fixed spawns", but make it "guaranteed spawns of at least one portal per level"

[near mortar]

since bard is being nerfed into the ground every other day maybe make the positive buff effect songs last a little longer? its really arduous to continually play all the songs, you barely get to fight or loot, it constantly attracts pvp, and now the songs are being made weaker and weaker.

[tulip hill]

ah, I see
question though, what are we considering a floor?

[lilac silo]

then there'd be too many, or someone would just take the lower portal and you'd get screwed anyway
it's not a good solution, and the problem isn't that big of a problem

[lucid folio]

no because there's plenty of possible spawns

[lucid folio]

you hear the portals spawn so you would just fight for that one portal instead of it even not appearing

[frosty bay]

Increase character limit to # of classes.

[static gazelle]

Agreed, and Up-voted, that the main reason I don't like running them

[lucid folio]

there are pretty much 3 floors and a basement where the troll boss is. Imo, whoever kills that boss should get an instant escape portal anyway.

[untold widget]

It takes skill to swap instruments and match music sheets, while doing so much work to focus on that and play mini rhythm games to get a buff now, not just it's not reach perfect, it's even weak to use...

Dev just nerfed it because players managed to master the class and punish the class to the ground.
When newbies start to play Bard, it's gonna be harder than ever before not even worth mastering the class anymore.

[dire granite]

Magic and curses shouldn't be blocked with simple shield.
I can see when it reduce damage of wizard, but absolute nonsense curse absolutely negated with wooden shield

[tulip hill]

so Troll arena, the floor above that with the skeleton champion, the next floor up with the swinging axes, what is the last floor?

[tall ocean]

or just make meditation implemented in wizards rest

[lilac silo]

the only guaranteed spawn I can think of that should exist is in the troll loot room
especially now that the loot room's actual loot has been nerfed, at least reward bossing with a guaranteed escape

[tulip hill]

do you think the gate exit should be moved there?

[lilac silo]

that'd be a neat idea yeah

[tulip hill]

that would mean one less person gets to escape if no one manages to kill the troll though

[lucid folio]

the easiest way to explain it would be the big rooms with lots of stairs, where there is a ground floor filled with green water (or whatever that is), then 2 different levels of doors those stairs lead to

[celest flame]

more character slots please, cant even have one of each class right now

[unkempt parcel]

has there been a suggestion concerning post game or post round stats? some window that shows you how much damage you actually did to every player

[tulip hill]

green water and lots of stairs? I have no idea where you are talking about
the only other level I can think of is the bottom of the room with all the wooden bridges but I'd hardly call that another level since the only exits of that area takes you to the level with the skeleton champion and if the zone is closing over onto that room you can clearly see any portals that spawn (also there is even a working elevator to go to the top floor so you don't even need to walk around the bridges to get up)

[astral vigil]

Oof not enough slots to have one of every class

[lucid folio]

I used it to give an idea of what three levels are since those rooms lead to respective levels. Anyways, stop dragging the conversation away from the topic

[jaunty pasture]

We are limited to 7 characters maximum atm. I just leveled up all classes to lvl 15 for an overview and in order to learn basic mechanics but I cannot create the last one without deleting characters I would like to keep in order to delve into later. Suggest : limit max to class and not all characters.

[ornate flame]

and do it like today because warlock is the only one i have thats not 15

[tulip hill]

right
so with your suggestion, we're not changing how many portals spawn, right?

[jovial swan]

I propose level limits to classes:

-Barbarian, Rogue and Fighter are starter classes.
-Wizard is unlocked when the player reaches level 5 on either character.
-Warlock and Bard are unlocked when the player reaches level 10 on any character.
-Cleric is unlocked when the player reaches level 15 on any character.
-Ranger is unlocked when the player reaches level 20 on any character.

This should dramatically reduce the amount of classes played that the general populace doesn't like while making the more popular classes easier to obtain first.

[static gazelle]

I want this so bad, and I don't want the Devs to say shit about it, just add it and not tell anyone!

[lucid folio]

with them being more equally destributed, there's no need for that, fighting will decide who takes the final ones

[lucid folio]

gating classes behind the times spent is quite terrible

people pay for this game and should be able to access all the content right away

[fleet crow]

Suggestion title: Revert bard nerfs but make them apply to allies at half efficacy
Reason: Team-bard was so OP that it needed nerfs, but Solo-bard was fairly balanced (albeit may need some tweeking as do all classes). As a result of the nerf, team-bard is in a good place but solo-bard is now unplayable. Having his team-wide buff his allies at different efficacies that it buffs him will allow you to balance his two playstyles, team-bard and solo-bard separately. I believe half-efficacy would be very reasonable to keep team-bard from being OP.

[lament violet]

Sugestion: Make some new arts like the ones that appear when loading into a dungeon, but for each individual class, to serve as wallpapers :D

[tulip hill]

I don't say this lightly but that is an awful idea
first off, this isn't going to do much to solve the issue you claim it will. It doesn't take long for people to grind out levels, especially if they want to play a specific class that is level locked
secondly, I know there are plenty of people who straight up dislike playing the martial characters
I have a buddy who played cleric 90% of the time because they preferred being a support over directly fighting
also, while rangers can be terrifying, a brand spanking new playing trying it out for the first time is not the problem
even if this suggestion did have a major effect on the class counts, there would be just as many skilled rangers which are the only ones that are actually problematic

[supple cedar]

hold the line believe in the 9th, soon release

[tall ocean]

agreed with this, level locking is bad since everyone has dif playstyles

[tulip hill]

so with 3 floors, the gate exit on the top floor, and 4 portal spawns, there will still be a discrepancy on how many exits on each floor there are
do you think this is a problem?

[lucid folio]

make it equal number for each floor, like 6, tho Im not sure it's just 4 in normal caves, feel like there's more spawning, 4 might be at the the very end

[fleet crow]

it spawns 4 in total for goblin caves.

4 escapes for iirc 8 player pretty high amount

[formal orbit]

I just want a character slot per type of character. Let me have one of each class.

[fleet crow]

Agreed, its probably just an oversight

[tulip hill]

going to be honest
doing some research
I think we can solve the problem in a much simpler way
we don't need to deal with the logistics of trying to get rid of the RNG
we can just move the timing back a little to give you more time to search for the last portal
because you currently have about 30 seconds to find the last portal
why not just bump that up to a minute
that should give you all the time you need

[lucid folio]

that can work

[glacial hinge]

put hand crossbows in shops..

[azure basin]

Came here to say this

[wooden seal]

no one reads before typing it LOL

[tulip hill]

at this point yall should petition general chat if they are not already spamming this

[lucid folio]

they should just bring back the suggestion submission

[thick juniper]

I would love to suggest being able to collect arrows from spiders @dawn grotto not sure if that was overlooked

[upper sonnet]

it's on their website now: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/

[lucid folio]

yeah and the majority of posts are ignored

[warm goblet]

WE NEED A AUCTION HOUSE

[lucid folio]

yeah, we do

[tulip hill]

I'd only want an auction house if there is no buyout option
I love the live market style of shouting prices into the sea of people and don't want that to die because people just put everything on the "auction house" that in reality is just an automated store

[lucid folio]

I would prefer automated store with little to no human interaction and thus less wasted time

[tulip hill]

your preference is acknowledged and is perfectly valid however I personally wish it to not exist, thank you :)
(to clarify this message is a joke, I do not feel that strongly about it)

[green bloom]

Parrying dagger

[tulip hill]

yes

[formal orbit]

I kinda love the human interaction selling. Much more fun than AH in my opinion.

[wheat eagle]

Please lengthen the time of high roller matches. People are not actively encouraged to go there right now its hard to get anything done even when geared and clearing at a reasonable rate and RNG really dictates whether or not your going to survive with the circle. Also with it being less fun geared people just pub stomp normals.

[quaint isle]

Reduce A & D movement speed to be a middle ground between W and S. How is this?

I mean u shouldnt be able to run sideways at the same speed u run straight xD

[heavy knot]

is wizard dog now ?

[violet dome]

Hey all, any thoughts on having gear limit caps in dungeons? whats your thoughts?

[fallen venture]

Increase character creation slot by one so we can have minimum one of each class

[tulip bear]

A "bag of holding" (idk if that's copyrighted but it has the same name in DND and Pathfinder) that works like the secure cases in tarkov. Let you keep something after death

[tulip hill]

if it lets you keep items after death it would need to be a consumable, and a very rare one at that

[tulip bear]

I like that actually

I'm sure there will be quest items eventually tho. That would make it more manageable for bad players like me

[silent grove]

Lowkey props to the people who said Wizard would catch a nerf before Cleric and figher LOL

[granite plinth]

How do i make a suggestion?

[golden vine]

elaborate, since you can have godly affixes on a green item and dogshit ones on a purple I don't see how you can balance it

[hoary onyx]

I'd like the make the suggestion to fix the sound issues before adding new things. Doors opening 2 feet behind you so someone can start stabbing you in the back of the head without any possibility of know the door is suddenly open is kind of a problem, and no new content is going to make things like that fine. In short, please focus on the bugs before new stuff.

[granite plinth]

I was interested in suggesting that resourcefulness become a stat that bard benefit from.
If knowledge represents speed of song, resourcefulness could represent strength of song meter.
This would allow fro more notes to be skipped based on how much resourcefulness you have.
As a musician if you miss notes in a piece your playing the best thing to do isnt to stop, its to improvise.
In order to turn that mistake into something that isnt noticed you have to be resourceful and adapt.

[tulip hill]

I know there are a couple tiny closet rooms that have some scuffed audio mapping, is this something like that or is there something else going on with the sounds

[hoary onyx]

I've noticed it quite a bit. This last time was in the room with the 4 mummy spawns, 2 gates on either side, res shrine, and lion chest. The one with pots on one side of the mummy spawns that open a secret area underneath.
I've also had teammates in full plate+boots running around 2 feet away with no clanking. The sound is just broken sometimes, and in a game with such high damage that's kind of big. Others I've played with have experienced similar.

[violet dome]

well, it makes it unfair that alot of high leveled geared people in purple and blues should be going against defaults

not a good way to keep the community healthy

[tulip hill]

I know the room and I can't recall ever having an issue there, at least not one I noticed
I've also never had plate boots be silent
even if some others also report such a thing it doesn't seem to be a global bug so my guess would be some kind of conflict with your audio drivers
I'm not too savvy when it comes to troubleshooting but at the very least I would recommend making sure your divers are up to date

[grand meadow]

Woof Charismatic performance stealth nerf?

[late dome]

Did you not even read the patch notes?

[crimson flax]

You'd be surprised how much people here in the Discord don't scroll up to click announcements lmao

[grand meadow]

Haha... I read it I must have missed it

[late dome]

That's fair lol

[grand meadow]

Friendly community in here

Ah yes I see it actually does not have to do with charismatic performance. It has to do with bard song performances all together. Interesting. Idk about that change

[late dome]

They'll probably roll at least 1 or 2 of those nerfs back at some point, they just had to gut bard a little due to all the malders in chat (they were broken as hell tho)

[grand meadow]

I think bards needed it a bit. But that takes away the fun of the class at its current state quite a bit

[empty valve]

Lmao Bard def needed hella nerfs, but honestly a rework woulda been better

[grand meadow]

I totally agree

[late dome]

The bard + cleric combo was so juicy though

[dusky lotus]

Dev's. It makes NO FUCKING SENSE that a bard, can play a single fucking song. And 2 shot other classes naked. Like. WTF

[grand meadow]

It was fun!!!

[late dome]

Falchion moment, giving out dark souls 1 flashbacks

[timber sky]

Suggestion : Let Wizard wield rapier (perk or sth ) the wizard and mages are intelligent and full of knowledge people, in some poems they have rapier lessons in their magic school it fits in their class

[tulip hill]

why the rapier specifically?

[timber sky]

Wizard lack in pve it will help him clear faster and dont waste much spells

[granite plinth]

What do you think of this suggestion as a way to balance the current bard with the one before?

[stuck perch]

Songs scaling with willpower as magic effects makes sense, however resourcefulness is a main stat should should help scale things as well. Make it scale skills and perks that are based on cunning instead of brute strength or magical prowess.

[tulip hill]

well I was just wondering why you specifically said let them wield the rapier and not another similar option
also they do have access to the crystal sword, what's wrong with that for PvE?

[granite plinth]

Willpower effects duration but im not sure about the power of the buff itself. Its my understanding it only effects duration.

Resourcefulness would be specific to task of making a wrong note sound intentional. It requires cunning.

[timber sky]

@tulip hill Rapier is quick and have good range, it clears mobs really fast and without danger if u know attacks

[stuck perch]

It would be difficult to scale the song power outside of the direct damage songs. It would end up being useless without gear and overpowered with gear. For the damaging songs, will buff magic power so should affect Din, and either will or strength buffs shriek. Would have to test out.

[dusky lotus]

Yeah. I'm uninstalling your game. The balance of this game just isnt' fun. A fully naked warlock can one shot a geared rogue. A fully naked bard can two shot way too easily. Fighter/Barb/Cler/Wiz are fairly balanced. But please try fucking harder with balancing the broken classes.

[tame eagle]

TOGGLE. CROUCH.

[late dome]

Adios

[tulip hill]

wizard and warlock both have perks that give them 10% knowledge and 10% will respectively, perhaps bard could have a perk that does something similar but give like "gain a bonus to will equal to 10% of your resourcefulness"

[devout lark]

make an option to have each quick slot be customized so you can select the item you want instantly instead of rotatiing around in quick slots

[tulip hill]

I'd like that, mathwing, that is a good idea

[stuck perch]

Bard has Lore mastery. The 10% to will and knowledge should be better left to pure caster classes as opposed to bard who's somewhat are of a hybrid.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472892/remove-song-skipping-entirely-return-nerfs-to-songs-and-nerf-bards-in-the-follow

[faint vigil]

Voice chat/Proximity chat
More stuff in shop
friends system
motion blur
auto jump
Sort button for inventory
optimize game when theres high amount of projectiles and people/enemies
fps ingame counter
health number near health bar instead of pressing tab
increase character creation slot
make skeleton archer slightly easier to handle with for rogues and close range classes as they can be very punishing but keep it same for rangers
BE ABLE TO JUMP OVER SPIDERS... they can be awful when trying to open a door and go through it as you can not leave if the spider is still there, either nerf the hitbox of be able to jump over it
permenantely make high roller at an ante fee of 75 ish
Make a place for showing ALL our stats, escapes, deaths, kills, items picked up etc... instead of a High roller only leaderboard place for stats
more character slots
make triumph level easier... doubling next level is CRAZY it grows exponentially which is wild, it should be permenantly 50

[somber wind]

The charismatic performance nerf was too strong, I actually think the other nerfs were warranted IF the performance perk WASN'T nerfed. Both together is too much. One or the other.

[devout lark]

ways to systemize stash with crates or something similar

[granite plinth]

I respectfully disagree, allow me to share a solution.

Baseline is knowledge 20 and resourcefulness 20. THis leaves you at 0% casting speed.
+10 kno give you 30% increase spell casting speed. For this example Why couldnt +10 Resourcefullness allow for one additional mistake?
This would still nerf the damage spells because of gear limitation while allowing for buffs to be casted faster and easier.

I understand that 10 might be too much or too little but the idea is that resourcefulness allows for more mistakes.

[stuck perch]

I'm not wholly opposed to it, I just don't think it fits the flavour of bard songs.

[granite plinth]

I liked the idea of secret bard songs. Some of the songs sounded better played faster or missing certain notes. I wish they kept this charming feature. One example is shriek of weakness when you skip the first note.

[somber wind]

In order:

• Planned, legal reasons it was removed for now; they're getting a license.
• I debate on if needed personally.
• Planned but not high priority.
• Agreed.
• Agreed.
• Hell no they're almost dead now as a class, if anything they need something to be unnerfed.
• Agreed.
• Stop nerfing bard further it's way worse than Cleric right now.
• Agreed.
• We're getting quests for that later on.
• Do you mean the Crossbow Skeleton? If so I agree, otherwise I disagree.
• I personally think a better option is to do crushing damage to spiders when hopping on them. Doesn't kill them in 1 hop but in 4.
• I agree with it being 75, at 100 it's a mixture of worth or not worth it if you don't intend to PVP.

[ashen apex]

Classes are free but cant have more than 7...pfft

[gray talon]

Hi just a simple suggestion... how about seeing my own stats? K/D / escapes / loot collected etc

[earnest osprey]

I love you Iron Mace. But make up your mind with Bard. They came out and they were a meme/rp class. Then you make them good and viable... then you make them almost worthless again. I can see an increase in song time. But to do it to that extent is crossing the Line. Songs going from two notes played to 4 notes played to get a perfect is toooo much. Please revert it back and just nerf the actual songs. The play time of the songs was perfect. But now to go through 4 buffs plus clarity plus keeping action speed and speed buff on. While trying to shriek... it takes WAY to long. By the time you go through them all. The buffs are already almost starting to run out. The timing is way off.

[faint vigil]

Yes i was gonna say this, this is a very nice idea

[stuck perch]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472900/add-purge-mechanics-to-several-classes-to-add-counter-play-against-buff-stacking#comment534150

[upper sonnet]

Warlock and Wiz definitely should get some Dispell stuff yeah

[stuck perch]

Leave high roller initial ante at 50, but also make opening a red portal or other options to go deeper cost additional gold, so if you stay on the ruins (after it's be stacked over crypts) it's a reasonable 50g, but if you want to go deeper to get better loot it's an another 50g, and another to go into high roller inferno. Instead of paying gold directly I'd make opening a red portal (or stairs) consume an item you can buy at a merchant. Players can then either take it into the dungeon or loot it off other players. Also would be consumed to open a portal or the stairs so players can still steal portals.

[oak siren]

how to do put a suggestion in the other channel

[somber wind]

You cant anymore, that's the old suggestion system; here's the new one: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/

[knotty shell]

What do ya'll think about that, definitely need some more votes if you like the idea https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472738/add-the-old-tavern-as-a-practice-location

[somber wind]

I feel like a more fun idea would have the ability to have public lobbies that people just hang out in, can play minigames at the tables but also still has the training room like before. Could even allow people to request trade there instead of inspect. It'd be better when voice chat comes back.

[knotty shell]

Comment that on the post so it doesn't get lost

[somber wind]

Will do

[lone crescent]

Vrchat vibes

[somber wind]

100%, and I think an ingame version of chat would actually be good for the community.

[sly onyx]

Hey im the #1 Vet Adv and #1 Killer for HR Gob Caves Bard. I'm writing up a reddit post concerning the recent nerfs (most of which were healthy!)

Do you guys have a consensus on how bard could be better balanced for both solo and 3v3? Solo feels very weak right now while the 3v3 meta is still buff ball. Any ideas of how to help this?

[somber wind]

I personally think the Charismatic performance shouldn't have been hit at all. For dealing with buff ball though I think that we just need a form of Dispel to exist that requires skill to use so there is counter play but also not completely invalidate the playstyle. Dispel shouldn't be on Cleric or Bard as well.

[sly onyx]

You mean a way to dispel the bard's song buffs or lessen them?

[somber wind]

To dispel all buffs

[dire granite]

fullplate bugs with warlock curses, doesnt applyes

[naive walrus]

Suggest: Lower the price of base throwing knives 18 is ridiculous considering arrows are 1 gold and do double/triple the dmg. Also have throwing knives usable by warlock

[somber wind]

Something that just removes all buffs from a target or removes an amount of buffs from a target. The spell or skill could maybe do something like "Remove 2 buffs with the most time on hit".

[lime pilot]

@sly onyx https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472775/limit-active-buffs-on-a-given-player

[somber wind]

That's a horrible idea. So artificial feeling... just gross.

[lime pilot]

Elaborate as to why

[somber wind]

It's just artificial instead of being an actual reason, another is that it will cause people to get buff stuck where they need to pivot but cant because you cant manually remove or replace specific buffs.

[lime pilot]

is that not the point?

[sly onyx]

I think that would kill the bard 3v3 as a whole though. The point is to make it balanced, not useless. Also Zandorum has a point in that it feels clunky and not natural

[tulip hill]

when it comes to buff limits it is almost always better to limit how many buffs can be given, not how many can be received

[sly onyx]

Agreed

[somber wind]

Even then feels gross on a character that can only support

[lime pilot]

So what if the bard could not replay the song until the buff duration was over?

[sly onyx]

Ok these are the current ideas I have in my reddit post. Any more I should add? How can I refine these?

Some Changes I propose: (any advice/discussion is welcome)

• PLEASE revert the change of "increased the baseline score for the good rating when a bard completes a performance". This alone will make solo bard possible again.
• Make the music descriptions ACTUALLY match what they do and for how long. I've timed it and they are frequently too long or too short compared to the music description.
• Maybe make scaling for bard outside of "Add Mag Dam" actually mean something. (I've tested this as well, stacking "Will" barely does anything if you time the length of buffs). You can lower the base effectiveness of the bard if you make will/knowledge scaling actually viable. Buying higher rarity instruments is mostly useless right now as well. This is more of a open discussion because I'm sure some people would hate to see a max bard be even stronger than he is now.
• Toy with the idea of making bard's solo songs being powerful while his team songs being weak, essentially making him weaker (balanced) in a team play setting without gutting his solo play. Another idea along those lines is some sort of "under pressure" or "solo performer" perk/effect where his songs are slower near allies and faster while alone. Just an idea to play with.

[tulip hill]

for the buff duration did you remember to account for your will stat?

[lime pilot]

I would much prefer the solo songs be stronger than team buffs because im greedy

[glacial sphinx]

Was thinking about the last part as well, guess I don't play bard enough but whats the main songs that you play as a solo more than as a group? In terms of the charismatic performance stuff, I actually don't like that misplaying is the meta, but maybe charismatic performance could just autocomplete the the last X notes instantly if you play the first ones perfectly? Then I dont have to listen to a misplayed song over and over

[sly onyx]

I've done tests with stacking will and the buff duration you receive really isn't that much more. You're better off stacking str/agi and doing damage with a crossbow. Or stacking +add mag dam and going for din of darkness

[tulip bear]

Nope too embarrassing

[sly onyx]

Some songs only buff yourself, while others buff you and your team. I can check if you want the exact names. But it would mostly mean leaving the solo buff songs alone will nerfing the team buff songs.

[naive walrus]

Suggestion: Nerf bow dmg.... Doesnt make sense that two classes in the game can take away 50% hp of all the other classes besides viking with 1 shot to the body... Zero counter play to bows either other than another bow

[somber wind]

I feel like the tool tips for everything should be like "A successful attack applies poison that deals 4 (2) Magical Damage over 4 (5) seconds. The poison can stack up to 5 times at once." Where the 2 and 5 is showing after modifiers and stats.

[glacial sinew]

solo crypt map pls

[vagrant ferry]

A bigger money bag! Inventory management is getting hard 😭

[outer lichen]

i have a bug where i cant reopen chests when they alrdy opend, i bind my crouch 2 shift and now the special interact dont seem 2 work and on the keybinds i cant rebind dat key. Any1 can help?

[ashen apex]

Hot Suggestion, focus on fixing the launcher before hotfixing the game every other day.

[tulip hill]

if they were to nerf bow damage I'd like to see the on hit slow be buffed in some way, make bows more of a support tool

[glacial sphinx]

No I do know which songs are solo buff, was more thinking about buffing piercing shrill and weakness maybe, figured those maybe played a bigger role in solo but im not sure

[river vine]

Reduce the amount of Instruments bard need's to use and maybe make a hotkey for it

[glacial sphinx]

instrument could just be auto swapped to when choosing a song imo

[naive walrus]

That is a great idea!

[tulip hill]

I once suggested they replace the music memory skills with 4 skills specific for each instrument so at most a bard would have 2 instruments, though this idea works best if the songs were redistributed

[trail kestrel]

wouldn't this make bard not flexible?

[alpine axle]

Any thoughts on giving warlock a second melee weapon like the bard has? Playing warlock level 1 has been hell alone tbh 😦

[tulip hill]

well I made that suggestion back before the nerf, one of the problems was bard was giving out too many buffs but if they make it so the popular buffs are split across all the instruments the bard would have to actually pick which buffs they want to bring

[trail kestrel]

ah alright

[little patio]

are you still able to make suggestions or do we just talk about them here?

[severe mulch]

i wish i could play any other map in solo mode any map please ill play a small circle with no textures or loot over goblin caves

[nova snow]

just 1 tap people with a grey falch and blow of corruption. I believe in you

[tulip hill]

I think warlock's default should either be ball and falchion or crystal sword and since they would be starter weapons their damage would be less than even grey versions of those weapons so I don't immagine it would cause that much of an issue

[little patio]

i wish they'd make the hitbox of smaller sellables like coins and bangles bigger so you don't have to stand there spamming F trying to pick up the tiny loot when you find it

[tulip hill]

yeah, they really do need to at least thicken up their hitbox if not fill in the middle

[little patio]

yeah i think filling the middle part would be best, rn it just follows the actual visual which makes it tricky to grab but if they just filled the area of it like a square/rectangle you could loot with no issue

[tulip hill]

oml a T1 falchion still does 30 damage, that's kinda crazy

[alpine axle]

I cant get out with base on lvl 1 LOL i get destroyed cause no weapon :c

[tulip hill]

with blow of corruption even the starter staff deals a dummy amount of damage, that's like 47 damage after power bonuses meaning you can deal 70 damage with a well placed headshot

[frozen warren]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472921/add-different-arrow-grades-qol-for-rangers

[alpine axle]

oooo I didnt know that; thanks for the heads up 😄

[tulip hill]

do keep in mind that is before taking into account enemy armor but you can at least expect to half health them

[trail kestrel]

there would be a huge problem stacking these

[frozen warren]

How is that? It would make using a shitty bow more viable while making it more of a grind for rangers. I would love to hear some criticism

[trail kestrel]

yeah i guess but imagine haveing 2 diffrent arrows purple 1st gives stat a and 2nd stat b these dont stack and imagine the amount of space required for differing arrows used

[frozen warren]

Well like the rest of the game the arrows only give you the stats if they are equipped.

So arrow stacking would just be an unnecessary risk

[rocky valley]

mini bosses and bosses should drop better loot

[trail kestrel]

but the sheer amount of diffrent arrows would still cause a lot of issues regarding inventory managment

[frozen warren]

At the very least I think rangers should get different rarity quivers so arrows don’t take up your loot inventory. But I see what you are saying

[trail kestrel]

this sounds plausible but other bows would have to get nerfed. Some bows can 2 shot most lighter classes

[late dome]

Have brewmaster double the duration of ale for clerics

[tulip hill]

while I'm not against different arrow grades if we get quivers to manage a system like that, I'm not sure the system you outlined is the best way to go with this.
while this does make the power of the bow somewhat consumable which would reduce arrow spam, it would only do such for those on a budget so the highest tier players would get more of an advantage than they already have
on top of that, even with the damage nerfs on the bows themselves, this still raises the potential power level of bows which is an unpopular idea for much of the community
if we really wanted different arrows I would much rather have arrows with special properties like flame or poison arrows, explosive arrows, magic damage arrows, and the like

[tulip hill]

just bring two ales :)

[late dome]

I s l u r p them up too fast, and protection from evil halves the duration

[tulip hill]

oh dang, really? that kinda sucks actually
alcohol is evil confirmed

[frozen warren]

Yeah Ik, I think rangers are in a weird place, I believe that if played by the right person they can be absolutely nuts, but you have to play slower and think a lot more.

@tulip hill that is a really good point bringing up the high tier player abuse, and I believe that would be an issue, however, with the right balancing I believe the math would come out the same by lowering bow base-dmg and supplementing that with the arrows the only advantage really would be the stats.

On your last point, I like the idea of different arrows, idk if magic/fire/etc is the answer but at least high velocity arrows (no bow drop, faster, but lower dmg) and barbed arrows (less base dmg but applies bleed for X seconds) would be something very interesting to see.

[arctic hound]

I'd like to suggest we bring back the 50g high rollers, 100g is steep when some games you just get killed 30 seconds in by a rogue in full purps.

[wooden iron]

more portals in goblin caves since theres multiple floors that you cant navigate throughout late game

[frozen warren]

There is 6 portals + stairs in goblin caves, there is enough escapes for more than half the lobby

[tulip hill]

I would personally like to see fire arrows as the bow's DoT option with it doubling as a small light, both that the enemy would see as you ready the arrow and that you could use to track the enemy in the dark
but I always imagined it as a skill, like ranger's version of rupture

[tulip hill]

I don't know about highroller but in normal goblin cave there is only 4 portals

[frozen warren]

That could be cool, I could see a lot of fun interactions

I really like the idea of fleshing out more of the rangers “tracker/survivor” fantasy. I feel like there should be more tracking skills in general

And my bad 4 portals + stairs

[toxic pulsar]

bro bard feels like absolute shit to play now we need to revert the song perk changes lol, just nerf the numbers, no one wants to slowly play guitar hero for half a game and it's not viable to do at a high level where shit happens fast

[hasty mirage]

GIVE US ENOUGH CHARACTER SLOTS TO MAKE ONE OF EACH CLASS!

[frozen warren]

This is much more true to the DND fantasy of bard, yeah it’s not the most viable but that is the intended play style, it also separates people abusing a busted class and the people who align with the bard fantasy and people who are skilled at bard

Bard is more of a support than cleric.

[tulip hill]

I had a conversation earlier today about this very same problem and I came to the conclusion that the portals themselves are not the problem but the timer
generally games come down to one last person searching for the last portal out but they only get like 30 or so seconds to find it so in specific parts of the map they might get unlucky and spend too much of those few moments searching the wrong floor
so I suggested we just push back the timer by another 30 seconds, give the last person a full minute at least, because if it turns out they aren't the last person that extra bit of time gives them enough time to fight over it

[midnight flame]

anyone else getting server connection errors too? my internet providers are still detecting dark and darker as malicious malware

[viral zephyr]

normalize ignite dmg on weapon speed

[keen steeple]

anyone else think warlock’s Blow of Corruption should consume the Soul collector passive perk? Had a lot of playtime with warlock, and IMO it would make the perk usable and open up a good entry meta for a newer warlock.

[viral zephyr]

I think blow of corruption is fine how it is lol

[tulip hill]

I think Blow of Corruption already has enough damage to it, though soul collector could use a once over

[digital echo]

HR still needs to be longer, now that it's back to normal price, it's even less worth running

[spark sedge]

Is bard really ass rn or ppl overreacting

[keen steeple]

Yep I think Blow of corruption is fine as well👍 soul collector doesn’t feel viable enough to take. Torture Mastery->Malice->Reflection->Enchantment is ab as good as it gets. The pairing would give blow of corruption a one-time damage increase, and if you miss you just wasted both perk and skill. Seems balanced but that’s just an opinion, it’s still a WIP

[lost rampart]

all but 2 of barbarians skill feel completely useless, i know barbarian is pretty strong but his perks and skills feel pretty lame for what a barbarian fantasizes about except for a handful

[wraith geode]

I don't know how to make a formal suggestion, but please dear god can you add an option to turn off ear ringing? I have tinnitus and this game triggers it D:

[keen steeple]

My Vet friend has the same problem

[wraith geode]

also, follow up, maybe make a pinned message in #d-and-d-suggestions on how to make an actual suggestion

[minor lynx]

any talk of them increasing the character amount to 8? id hate to delete a leveled character or not be able to play 1 if i wanted to

[tulip hill]

if I were to change Soul Collector I would probably have it consume souls one by one instead of all at once and maybe with that change reduce its max number of souls to 4 or 5
so the bonus is smaller but it lasts longer

[final socket]

IS THERE ANY UPDATE ON USING A CONTROLLER YET ITS NOT FINISHED BUT DEF NEED SOME CONTROLLER NERDS

[tulip hill]

crush is by far the best perk thematically

[lost rampart]

but its like not good no? like u can break doors which is pretty usefull but like "better defeat blocks and parries" i dont even know what that means

[tulip hill]

I have a buddy that uses it very effectively to flee a bad situation or chase a cheeky door closer

[final socket]

bro we need a bigger stash something like tarkov

[tulip hill]

as for the defeating blocks and parries, iirc there is a weapon statistic that lets you blow through blocks or not lose your attack combo when hitting a shield and crush helps with that

[keen steeple]

If they did that they would at least have to increase the soul buff to 10% per. I originally thought the perk was there for a pure melee warlock: Clear PVE, stack up a one-time use 30% buff, for Blow of Corruption. Can’t really farm PVE in the middle of PVP too easily so doesn’t seem that broken

[fervent coyote]

account max character slots = number of unique classes please

[minor lynx]

PLEASE. i want bard...

[sharp wave]

Can rangers get a type of flee somewhat similar to Rogue's tumble, something to make them a little more mobile to avoid getting just ran down by fighters and barbs?

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

[minor lynx]

rogue tumble is a joke. fair point

[sharp wave]

Truth, but I said similar, not just rogue tumble

[digital echo]

soul collector doesn't even work actually

[soft grove]

Would be nice with some quests or progression

[keen steeple]

Yeah that’s what I mean, it has no use at the moment. It would be great if it got consumed by corruption. I never use the perk because it’s not viable once you gear out. But as a Lvl1 warlock it would’ve saved me some headaches

I’m hyped to see what they do with the class though, it’s interesting

[astral reef]

🇬 🇮 🇻 🇪 🇲 🇴 🇷 🇪 🇨 🇭 🇦 🇷 🇦 🇨 🇹 🇪 🇷 🇸 🇱 🇴 🇹 🇸

[tulip hill]

if we assume 5 souls max that's 25% bonus on the first cast
then 20, 15, 10, 5
that is a total combined bonus of 75%
that is a bigger bonus than mana surge provides to all 5 casts of zap a wizard has
and given that warlock is not designed to spell spam as much as wizard I'd say that is pretty fair
its also a crazy big bonus for clearing PvE since a couple well placed hellfires can clear multiple mobs you can keep 20-25% bonus power pretty well when just mobbing

[astral reef]

We have 8 classes and 7 character slots

[rigid geyser]

THE CORE ISSUE THAT PEOPLE WANTED BARD NERFED IS THE FLAT WEAKNESS NERF. MAKE THE WEAKNESS A % NERF (NOT FLAT REDUCTION) OR REMOVE THE SONG ALL TOGETHER. BRING BACK ALL BUFF NUMBERS BESIDES MOVEMENT SPEED AND REMOVE THE SOLO MS BUFF. REVERT NOTE SKIPPING. CONGRATZ U FIXED THE CLASS, ITS NOT THAT HARD.

[quaint walrus]

make more character slots

[keen steeple]

IMO you want to be spamming your curses during PvP as much as possible, can’t take much damage if you’re healing it back instantly. At least that’s how I’ve been playing. Also I’m usually running magical healing boosted gear

[tulip hill]

from what I've seen of skilled warlocks they trade damage with blow of corruption then back off and land a curse to heal back up so they can go back in with another blow of corruption

[keen steeple]

If you get agility/knowledge up you can kite pretty easily and have pretty decent casting speeds. I use both curses like I would zap and kite until corruption is back. But I’m casting curses pretty frequently to keep pressure

[topaz frigate]

Nerf armor

[keen steeple]

Nerf the launcher

[livid silo]

bard feels so bad to play right now

[rigid geyser]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472949/bard-changes-as-of-81723

[tulip hill]

you know, speaking of spamming curses, have you had any issue with the spell just not landing when you feel it should?

[keen steeple]

If I was a bard main and saw the announcements this morning I would’ve been crying and throwing up

[ruby sonnet]

Hello, fellow afventurers! I am very passionate about this class but I believe there is a big problem: the current meta is to play songs that sound worse. Here is my suggestion to change that.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472948/bard-music-should-sound-better-when-you-get-good

[keen steeple]

MOST DEFINITELY, I thought I was going crazy. Even in range sometimes the hit-reg doesn’t work

[tulip hill]

yeah apparently everyone is having issues with Curse of Pain's hit reg, there really shouldn't be a difference between it and zap for targeting imo

[fleet crow]

Pls fix Curse of Pain hit registration. Either theres hitreg issues or the debuff icon doesn't always appear after hitting an enemy.

[granite plinth]

Anyone ever talk about needing the ability to push mobs out of the way so we can actaully move?

[formal crest]

I know not everyone was too happy with the nerfs. But what if you built in a poll system / "give us feed back" into the launcher that u ask simple questions to get a good vibe of what people want and give you as a dev a better pulse on what people want. the discord only reaches maybe 20% of the player. The launcher reaches everyone!!

[echo comet]

Green gear doesnt sell anymore. It's becoming pointless to pick up anything other than blues, so maybe some adjustment to vendor price or a reduction in trade fees is needed

[tulip hill]

I don't really have an issue with it, like sometimes I get blocked in spots I thought I could fit but at the end of the day I understand it was on me
except spiders, those things can burn
I was once thrown a good 10 meters when I tried to jump over a spider

[tulip hill]

you know, now that I think about it yeah, the debuff marker does sometimes fail to appear
I never really thought about it because the enemy crackles and I start healing when it lands

[keen steeple]

I agree zap is way more user friendly lol, and consistent would be nice for curse of pain to behave similarly. Playing warlock is a nice aim trainer though I missed a lot when I first started the class 😂 when it hits that is

[tulip hill]

its not about green or blue, its all about the enchantments and base item
you get +2 weapon damage on a pair of leather gloves and it will sell

[echo comet]

I'm not having that kind of luck. I'm lowering green items to 30g and they still wont sell

[keen steeple]

Playtest marketplace was a diff monster, everyone knew the game was only gonna be out for like a weekend so gold wasn’t as precious

[echo comet]

ofc the rolls matter

[tulip hill]

single green item at 30g? they pay 45 you take home 15, that's not the way you play the market
you get a couple items that go well together and you sell them together

[keen steeple]

Longbows, even gray can sell for 50 if a ranger really needs it then and there lol

[echo comet]

definitely not, hence the request to adjust something

[fleet crow]

Yeah its really difficult to know when you dont need to remark the same target

[keen steeple]

Another one is Hand crossbows, I sell gray ones for 50 consistently. Rouges don’t care either they’re hard to come by sometimes

[echo comet]

I'll keep that in mind @keen steeple

[keen steeple]

Good luck my bruddah go forth and become the wolf of Wall Street

[thick juniper]

For the marketplace I think it would be a nice change to lower trades that have only green quality or lesser to 5g tax, and blue+ having the standard 15. Would make selling single greens a bit more worth while, while still being a gold sink from all the mass single green trades

[echo comet]

I agree, scaling would be great

[keen steeple]

The taxation without representation is craaaazzyy fellas, we gotta do sum ab it

[echo comet]

I think I understand why free trading is broken, but when there's so little profit it's just not worth the inv space

[keen steeple]

Also any all attribute clothing that a cleric can wear will go for decent. HR clerics know that’s the best gear they can get

[reef spindle]

Why there is problem with armor
If you have 100hp and:
20% resistance you have 125hp
50% resistance you have 200hp
60% resistance you have 250hp
80% resistance you have 500hp
90% resistance you havr 1000hp

[echo comet]

I'd be interested to hear anyone's valuation of gold per inv space

[keen steeple]

Yeah that would be interesting fr, coinmaxxing

[tulip hill]

but that's why you gotta sell things together
its a per transaction tax, not per item
if you sell a green at 30 two times you only make 30 gold and the people buying spent 90
you sell two greens together at 50, despite being a lower total, you walk away with more money and the person buying walks away with a better deal
its a win win

[echo comet]

Bundle and save is defintely a strat

[keen steeple]

I’ve also just traded gear for gear to avoid the tax too wait actually I think it’s still taxed

[echo comet]

yea both parties pay 15g

[keen steeple]

Yeah I forgot it just pulls right out of the stash if no coins are being traded

[pliant bone]

we need better gold storage at this point wtf

[pine sapphire]

I think there was an overcorrection with bard here. Sure, it could use some nerfs in the long run but the cast time for their button press dependent spells (which other spellcasters do not have to do mind you) but making them cast two-three times as long in time was a poor decision and makes Solo play next to impossible for the class.

[keen steeple]

Maybe down the road a gold coffer? Would be nice

[tulip hill]

I wouldn't be supprised if they separated the stash into a bank tab specifically for money and then the normal stash storage for equipment

[echo comet]

maybe bigger gold bags

[keen steeple]

I need to stack my bread please IM get this going

[tulip hill]

yeah they could just do bigger bags

[keen steeple]

Coin pouch->coin purse-> ect.

[tulip hill]

if they went that route I'd guess a small chest, 2x2 that holds like 500

[pliant bone]

Exactly, its so rough. Even if it'd be expensive to buy, we need it... Makes no sense for half of a stash to be used because youre balling. inb4 'just buy rs bars kek'

[echo comet]

ppl are dumping gold bags on the ground to clear space. That should show there's an issue

[glacial sinew]

🇧 🇴 🇨 🇮 🇸 🇹 🇴 🇴 🇸 🇹 🇷 🇴 🇳 🇬

[tulip hill]

bet? where 👀

[toxic pulsar]

this game would be so much more fun if u could link all your chars stashes, fuck balance, I wanna play alts lel

[keen steeple]

Yeah having the gold on hand is much better than sitting on RS

[echo comet]

lol it happens. They also give them away in misc trade

[keen steeple]

I’d pay 100 gold for a 2x2 gold coffer lol

I had to reorganize my stash earlier and it was hell

[echo comet]

Maybe if trading just took the gold out of the purse instead of taking the purse

[low violet]

Please for the love of all that is holy, even if its a short term one, like items expire in 10 minutes, add a listing channel for selling. copy pasting the same same was interesting at first but now it takes an hour to sell anything at even an undercut price unless you do MAJOR deals meaning big loss of profits. having a base price to compare to like via listings on tarkov is very good id say, because then even people trying to be cheap will actually buy, and people trying to sell will not be hit so hard.

[echo comet]

I think there is a short CD on posting

[pliant bone]

Thats less of an issue than how small the storage actually is... Feels really bad to have almost 0 spare stash space just because of gold

[low violet]

CD?

[echo comet]

Cooldown

[quiet stone]

what if we made a wall o cheaters, like a public shaming

[meager current]

I wish the first trade of the day wasn’t taxed, would incentivize casuals (and everyone) to use the shop and makes selling MISC. stuff easier

[pliant bone]

attention is attention, there'd be an incentive lmao

[low violet]

i dont want a cooldown, i was saying a listing channel would be good. the current trading system is discouraging to sell on, and can be improved

[quiet stone]

oh yeah, clout goblins

[rough falcon]

Could we get a quiver for the crossbows? The bows all have a quiver which gives them more than one arrow to fire without needing more ammo in the inventory. The reload button could also be used to refill that quiver if its completely empty or if the crossbow is already loaded.

[echo comet]

That sounds terrible for the recipient of the arrows haha

[devout lark]

pendants should look different depending on type like the rings do. Makes it easier to differentiate them without hovering the mouse on each one

[pine sapphire]

Crossbows don't fire like a regular bow does. They get cranked per shot.

[feral hedge]

you need to pay attention to the rolls and collect multiple items that go together and sell them as a set

[rough falcon]

I know, but I find it weird that bows come with a quiver and crossbows don't.

[feral hedge]

ive spent like an hour with no luck trying to sell 2 green daggers, add 1 grey hand crossbow and they all sell instantly for 100+ ever time..

[pine sapphire]

It's simply how crossbows work vs how bows work.

[glacial schooner]

only if character names were the account name. shocking but not only the reasonable thing to do but help keep accountability

like how can we not see a person's other characters? is karma accounte wide? what happens when everyone makes 7 characters. etc etc

[rough falcon]

Maybe crossbows reload with the left mouse click if they're already empty and r reloads the quiver?

[tulip hill]

I don't think they are asking for crossbows to be able to be fired multiple times, I think they just want to have a few bolts stored as a part of the weapon id so they don't take up inventory space and so crossbows found in the wild come with more than one bolt

[glacial schooner]

they have a quiver around the waist

[feral hedge]

why would having a quiver for your bolts change anything?

[north field]

make bards able to wear rubysilver

[glacial schooner]

it already has a quiver

[feral hedge]

if anything you should just need to get a bolt rack that attaches to the crossbow if you want improved reload time?

[feral hedge]

he means one that reloads like the bow quiver

[tulip hill]

...they can

[rough falcon]

It doesn't take up space in your inventory, other than that nothing else is changed.

[glacial schooner]

but thats silly

[north field]

caps

[tulip hill]

oh, you're right, they don't have a hat option
why can't they wear the ruby silver cap??

[feral hedge]

but arrows/bolts are stackable... they already only take 3 verticle squares and reloading only takes a few from the stack, not changing your inventory space...

[quiet stone]

that would b cool

[feral hedge]

SUGGESTION: increase the god damn trade interface by like 4x, having to do multiple trades to sell bulk items is actually ridiculous asf, why is it that small for absolutely no reason??????

[toxic pulsar]

fighter is just too op man they need to lose crossbows

[feral hedge]

cant even sell a full gear-set atm once currently

[feral hedge]

skill issue.

[toxic pulsar]

it's just a boring mongoloid class that has no weaknesses besides one of the 3 wizards in the game fighting it

[feral hedge]

im just busting ur balls dude chill. but seriously learn counterplay and you wont have the issue.

[rough falcon]

Skill issue, fighters are beatable by any class.

[tawny python]

for the love of good nerf rondel its insane how much they do dmg

[visual grove]

Goblin Caves should guarantee portals spawn on different levels. Feels really garbage to wipe a lobby only to die to zone because the map decides you picked the wrong level to be on and spawns every portal on the same level at the end

[toxic pulsar]

the problem is fighters get absurdly strong for little gold investment they can just stand there shooting at you and if you get close they have like 35-45% DR minimum and out trade you easily

[feral hedge]

@visual grove dude this! ^ happened to me like 3 times yesterday

[tawny python]

surely thats why you need 30 arrow to kill some fighter

[toxic pulsar]

they wouldn't be so obnoxious if they couldn't also shoot a 50+ dmg crossbow at you, their mobiltiy is a non-issue

[glacial schooner]

? nah. if anything crossbows should be usable by all as in real life they were easier to use(excluding windlass) making them more dangerous and accessible ergo leading to the church banning crossbows from warfare etc etc

[rough falcon]

Yeah... the only thing to do is stick on the higher levels until you get the last two circles.

[rough falcon]

Exactly, totally beatable.

[echo comet]

Correct me if im wrong but goblin caves have 4 portals + the stairs, means 5/10 can make it out

[rough falcon]

Yep

[feral hedge]

sounds like you need to stop using the starter bow

[tawny python]

starter iam using a green bow 50 dmg

[rough falcon]

Really every class needs to at least buy a grey or white weapon at the vendors.

Then why are you taking 30 shots to kill an equivalently armed fighter?

[tawny python]

maybe because they have 75% physical damage reduction ?

[rough falcon]

Thats just means they're rocking purples and you got outkitted.

[tawny python]

ye kitted there classes just carried them away

[rough falcon]

Green Plate gets at most like 40% reduction.

[feral hedge]

we need different arrow types, armour piercing, barbed, long distance etc. a real life medevial archer had a variety of different missiles at their disposal...

would require more knowledge/skill to be an efficient archer and would actually be a counter to a person in godly plate armour...

[tulip hill]

I generally agree with this /\ :)

[wind river]

Hit your headshots boys. Literally got destroyed by a ranger last night cause he landed 4 headshots mind you I was 66% pdr

[lucid vortex]

Since Longsword is no longer BIS for fighters after the nerfs at the start of EA, perk for fighter that allows us to 1 hand longswords?

[feral hedge]

NO

[lucid vortex]

I mean falchion already does it 🙂 Could be pretty cool

[feral hedge]

the only class that could potentiall be one handing a longsword is barbarian. its not about damage its just unrealistic and stupid....

imo anyways

[lucid vortex]

Lol what, I can one hand my longsword in real life and my bench press is only 200 lbs. Actual knights could too and carried around plate armor all day, you're trolling.

[dark leaf]

Why can't they just allow us to trade with our own charachters? Why does it always have to be such a hassle to need another person to give yourself items. It's super unfun and anoying

[wind river]

You might be able to carry it but you def can’t swing em properly

[feral hedge]

^

[lucid vortex]

You can't one hand a zweihander if that's what you're thinking of. @wind river I can make clean cuts with it while one handing it, they're literally called one and a half handed swords, they're bastard swords, longswords, it's literally all the same.

[rough falcon]

I can do better, I'm a fucking weakling that benches the bar and I can wield and use my longsword one handed. A longsword is like 1.5-2 pounds at most.

[fathom mica]

Hunters have traps, yet the Rogue strikes me as a class that should also have traps.
I'd love if they implement a new item into the game: Poison Trap. Useable by Rogues. You can apply the poison trap to any container (chests etc.) and the next time someone interacts with it, a gas cloud is expelled akin to the one from the fart zombies. Would be fun.

[lucid vortex]

Yes, exactly, I don't know what these guys are talking about lol

[wind river]

You don’t think if it was feasible people would have done it IRL? Lol

[tulip hill]

wait
at 66% dr and 4 shots to kill
that means each headshot from that Ranger does about 75% of a normal healthbar
that is a lot but honestly not as much I was expecting

[lucid vortex]

They did do it IRL, what are you talking about.

[bronze mulch]

how do we submit a suggestion?

[feral hedge]

bro you have a longsword that weighs 1.5lbs? what is it made of aluminum? 😂

[tulip hill]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/
suggestions on the discord is currently disabled

[wind river]

Yeah in extremely rare cases cause it was useless.

[lucid vortex]

"The weapon may be held with one hand during disarmament or grappling techniques. In a depiction of a duel, individuals may be seen wielding sharply pointed longswords in one hand, leaving the other hand open to manipulate the large dueling shield." No actually it was extremely common, it just wasn't ideal for fencing and was mostly used in war alongside a kite shield because that's what best kept you alive.

[rough falcon]

No, its just well made. Plus a longsword is designed to have its point of balance really close to the hand so you don't even feel the weight as much. 1.5 pounds of steel is more than enough for the blade, crossguard and pommel.

[wind river]

Holding a shield in your offhand is not the same as swinging two sword lol

[tulip hill]

thoughts on a perk for fighter that lets him onehand spears with reduced power? allowing for spear and shield fighter?

[lucid vortex]

Traditionally longswords don't even refer to hand-and-a-half swords, like the one in game, but refer to rapiers. Even so, hand-and-a-half swords were commonly used in 1 hand because it gives you better leverage and more power into your swing which mattered more when you're trying to knock your opponent down who is likely wearing plate armor.

[glacial schooner]

eh actual longswords are fairly light

[rough falcon]

Yeah, I've done one handed cutting practices with my longsword and its pretty easy to handle it.

[lucid vortex]

They're also well balanced and were made to be able to also be used in 1 hand because of the utility involved in it. You can't do as well of flourishes but one handing actually puts more power into your swing, and usually can be used close distance on your opponent or cover a wider arc in a war.

[arctic hound]

I love it. Give me the hoplite class fantasy please.

[tulip hill]

what would you say would be a fair reduction on this perk?

[feral hedge]

well i guess i stand corrected. fair enough boys.

[glacial schooner]

mobility and fov

[arctic hound]

Perhaps a 10% reduction to weapon damage or something alone those lines to make up for the fact spear-type weps are tuned as 2hers. Similar to weapon mastery.

[feral hedge]

i want an skill for barb that lets him throw spears as a javelin, and also just be able to use spears as a barb, idk why they wouldnt be able to.

[arctic hound]

I do like the javelin idea, give em to fighter/barb/ranger. Javelin skirmishers!

[feral hedge]

exactly!

[thorny nimbus]

can we please add a auto-fill or a duo mode please

[feral hedge]

duo/solo mode in every dungeon would be legit

sick of getting micless randoms so i can go into crypts/ruins when my freinds arent on

[tulip hill]

well lets see
spears do about as much as a falshion but has a lot more reach
spear will make you move considerably slower and considering how power bonuses stack and the fact that weapon mastery is also -10% I think that's a good call

[feral hedge]

i dont really think autofill is the play though, i dont want random classes in my party, gathering hall is perfect

[echo comet]

right, dont need randoms killing me and taking my gear

[lucid vortex]

A trader who rerolls your equipment for exorbitant prices, and by rerolls I mean it stays the same rarity but the identified stats get rerolled, maybe even normal stats on it. Was thinking like 100 for uncommon, 200 for rare, 400 for epic, 800 for legend, 1600 for unique.

[charred pagoda]

I don't think you are supposed to be able to anyway, that's just a loophole people use if they don't like it

[feral hedge]

its a dope idea. i think it would be even better if it was an npc you interacted with or altar inside the dungeons so you had to risk the item plus gold (or another resource they could add to mine or collect in some interactive way)

[restive island]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/471239/duo-mode let's get it

[feral hedge]

@restive island MY MAN TY!

[lucid vortex]

Oh I like that a lot actually. I think though they'd end up locking it behind bosses or keys which I wouldn't want.

[feral hedge]

yeah that would be kinda shit but would also keep people from camping in those areas as much... i could see the benefit of putting it in a locked if it was'nt something rng based...

just a miniboss, like the skeleton guardians/wraiths

[pastel venture]

make searching for players easier

[feral hedge]

it is pretty easy wdym? a friends list?

honestly idk how they have a block list but not a friends list lmfao

[tulip hill]

block your friends, easy

[charred hamlet]

Suggestion, make the skeletons skin stop being -10 Armor because some of us believe they are cool, make them take default damage and take away the magic defense buff
-10 on Armor is too crucial and way too big of a troll

[feral hedge]

yeah skins should not have any bonuses/negatives.

honestly they should just add a character customizer and id actually run the human race, running around looking the exact same as everyone else isnt really my thing...

[noble root]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472805/tone-back-the-bard-nerfs

Eveyone needs to upvote this one for the sake of your musical friends. Issue isnt that bards didnt need a nerf. The issue is that its just plain not a fun class to play anymore and they couldve nerfed itin a way that still maintainted the note skipping.

[honest marten]

Giving Warlock a base melee weapon would be really nice. With slow cast time and mainly dots, melee is kind of required for warlocks, yet it doesn't have anything to start with.

[chilly summit]

No more fun as a bard

[stuck perch]

No, kill note skipping entirely. Bring back the power behind the buffs they nerfed, note skipping nerf hits all songs and that should be enough.

[vapid blaze]

Beer for barb should increase your current health by 45%, but then when the buff is over, the damage you’ve taken transfers over that 45% (basically you take 45% less damage)

[neat mantle]

Without increasing the frequency of Mimic, increase the variety. Crates, boxes, doors, etc.

[chilly summit]

The skip is a mechanical thing, its better nerfing the stats of the music than the mechanic since most people mastered how to use it

[tulip hill]

doors

imagine trying to smash down a door only for you to try and smash you

[feral hedge]

fr bro no thanks on that one

[clear falcon]

different lobby music

[feral hedge]

imagine youre getting trapped in the darkness by a mimic door lmfao

[tulip hill]

thats it, I'm making a ranger named MimicDoor and doing nothing but putting my traps down on doors

[feral hedge]

ahahahaa

honestly it just dawned on me that nobody would care about a duo mode if we could just have some voice chat back

[tulip hill]

on a slightly related note, how would yall feel about Rangers being able to see traps they put down in the same way as rogue's trap finder?

[feral hedge]

i think they should show on the whole teams minimap

i never use them when queued with people from gatheriong hall because 9/10 they end up walking into it

[tulip hill]

that's fair, you don't always have coms with your party, especially if you use the gathering hall

[feral hedge]

but yeah that is just a comms thing, if we could just have even team chat for now it would be a game changer, voip is the way but i'd settle for team chat in the meantime

[stuck perch]

It's a bad mechanic, give us a different mechanic to master, hitting all the notes for example.

[umbral elm]

Increase the range of warlock's spells, cant do shit until youre either close enough for a melee to rush you or too far to do anything about a wizard or someone with a bow

[neat reef]

The actual easy fix is to just buff bard self casts only. Though I again don't think it's an issue

[tulip hill]

maybe, but it would need to be a rather small increase
I feel if they just fix the hit reg that will make it feel so much better

[umbral elm]

That also, I swear to god my casts go between the ribs of skeletons

[feral hedge]

kekw

SUGGESTION: let us react to messages in this channel!

[tulip hill]

the worst part is when I miss, like my aim was completely off, but then the game is like "👍 you got it"
like bro, no, I didn't, give me the hits I land not the ones I don't

[umbral elm]

or the ones that are dead on and it just doesnt register, is there a chance to be immune or something?

[south edge]

U. S. Case dismissed, steam incoming.

[tulip hill]

99% sure no, just bad hit reg

[umbral elm]

lmao so not only is it a coin flip if your spell lands but you cast shorter range than someone can throw

[tulip hill]

I think it's the same range as zap, is it not?

[umbral elm]

buff zap as well then

[neat reef]

Zap is fine

[tulip hill]

god no, please, zap actually hits its targets

[umbral elm]

lmao

[neat reef]

Y'all don't know what kitted magic users can actually do. You can very easily get zap to 2 shot kitted players if you build it

Warlock can outheal a barb whacking in him

[tulip hill]

yeah, warlock healing is kinda wacky, but thats a separate issue

[neat reef]

Warlock with a kit and blow of corruption can one tap fighters

[lucid folio]

suggestion: remove or rework magic staff, it is terrible and doesn't compare to starting weapons of non-magic classes, being a major reason of magic classes being less popular

[tulip hill]

magic sure is harder to resist than physical

[tulip hill]

wdym by "magic stuff"

[lucid folio]

corrected

even though it was pretty obvious even without it

[chilly summit]

Its not a bad mechanic. And even if its "bad" for you, changing it after people mastering how to do it, its a bad thing

[lucid folio]

I think skipping songs and knowing how to do it effectively was a good skill ceiling for the class, they shouldn't have nerfed it that way

[neat reef]

Not really

[tulip hill]

oh! yeah
they should rework it into an actual useful piece of equipment while giving the different magic classes new starting gear
I don't get why they all get magic staff while the martial characters have a whole host of different things

[neat reef]

It's actually easier to stack insane MR than it is PR on most characters. Just nobody does it because most comps don't run good wizards/warlocks

[stuck perch]

It's objectively a bad mechanic because it encourages people to largely ignore the main bard mechanic and that mechanic is supposed to keep bards in check in exchange for having unlimited spells. Besides it's better to change it now and let other players master the actual mechanic or a different one rather than waiting longer and compounding the problem.

[lucid folio]

it's not ignoring the main mechenic since half of the song still had to be played correctly for it to work, while knowing when to skip made a difference between better and worse bard players. This nerf will remove that skill ceiling which is bad

[lone crystal]

some people highroller leaderboard is getting reset to 0 and it sad because its people with under 50 extractrs etc bottom list people getting reset to 0
horsemanaxe barbarian had 6 extracts and like 9 kills day 1 top 10 barbarian, switched cleric, went back to check my barbarian and he has no highroller stats
and my wizard friend got only his kills reset but kept his extract and adventure/treasure
please address highroller leaderboard for community
its upsetting for normal players with under 50 extracts to get stats reset when TTV is on not getting reset

[stuck perch]

Instead let the skill ceiling be met by bards that can consistently get those perfect performances out while under pressure. If that's too easy then make the songs harder.

[lucid folio]

getting them under pressure isn't hard at all, doing that while also skipping correct parts was harder and created some skill

[stuck perch]

No, skipping the correct parts was just memorizing the song and skipping the longer pauses.

[lucid folio]

and now it's just memorizing the song without skipping, which is even easier and that's a bad thing

nerfing it like that because rp casuals eye roll because of the song sounding bad is cringe as hell

[stuck perch]

Have you ever played music? The rests are there for a reason. If you go ahead and skip the rests it's just going to sound like shit.

[lucid folio]

who cares how it sounds? I only care about the game requiring skill and there being mechanics that make a difference in skill

[stuck perch]

Then you can get your skill in a different mecahnic. Bards get their magic from their music, not from purposely messing it up.

[lucid folio]

it's the same as being a tarkov player and complaining about people strafing while shooting because real soldiers don't do that

[stuck perch]

It's also bad for the game to give that much power to a specific perk.

[lucid folio]

it doesn't matter, it's a game and it has to create a skill gap, who cares if it doesn't stick with rp, lore literally doesn't matter

[lucid folio]

if it creates a skill gap, it's completely fine

[stuck perch]

Fine, here's the compromise, create a skill gap that's not that mechanic and completely remove note skipping from the game. You get your skill gap and we get the note skipping removed, everyone's happy.

[lucid folio]

why create something new if a good one already exists?

[stuck perch]

Because that mechanic is not a good one.

[lucid folio]

it is for everyone except crying rpers complaining about it not sounding good

[stuck perch]

If all you want is a skill gap, then you should be happy having a different one that's still good.

[lucid folio]

it would take them months to create a new one, why waste that time if there's an existing one right now? Simpler solution is the one to choose

[stuck perch]

My main reason for not wanting it is it overpowers the songs, which then get nerfed to compensate. I want strong songs, not weak ones that can be played fast by abusing a perk.

[stuck perch]

Simpler solution is to remove that mechanic and return the songs to what they were except for Din which should be scale like other dots.

[lucid folio]

imo, the problem isn't spamming, songs being strong is

the only alternative for support is cleric and he's not even close even now

[stuck perch]

It's much simpler to fix 1 problem mechanic than trying to compensate by balancing 19 different songs in incremental amounts.

[lucid folio]

since bard can just silence him and it's game over

[smoky helm]

Wizards/clerics need spells to cast, rangers need arrows, how about these fighters have shield durability that with enough damage depending on gear rarity will break. Repair items drop in game or buy from merchant

[stuck perch]

Cleric is much preferred over the bard. Cleric provides burst heals, decent tankiness, buffs and even damaging spells. Given clarity pots, song or time to rest he also in theory doesn't have limits on his spells either.

[lucid folio]

cleric can be better at bossing due to his cleanse, but in pvp he is easily beaten by bard

[empty valve]

Here was a simple Bard rework that I had thought of, but would need a bard main to give feedback (pre-nerf bard)

All buff/defbuff music now has a base lingering effect of 3 seconds. The bard is now able to continuously play music to keep any buffs on the player
(Ex: The shield buff now lasts as long as the bard is playing the song, with a linger effect of 3 seconds. Reapplying the shield would require the Bard to replay the song)
The lingering effect could last longer on the bard himself, to make him more playable solo

This creates a much better loop of focusing on hitting your skill checks, and maintaining the song. It eliminates the "let me sit back and buff you 60 times before we enter a room" meta. It also creates counterplay, since the bard is slower when playing music, he's now forced to make the decision of running and ending the music, vs continuing the song

Also any music like unlocking, pacifiyng mobs, etc all remains the same

[stuck perch]

Bard can't heal health past what you could get from rest, and even that comes at a crawl. Unless cleric's team is going to sit behind a door while Bard's buffing or damaging them with Din, cleric is better and that's just a lack of tactical thinking from cleric's team.

There's a reason the meta is Cleric+Bard+Fighter. And not just Bard+ whatever.

[zealous thorn]

Suggestion: action wheel for item slots.

[lucid folio]

as a bard, I don't need to buff my team before the fight, I constantly keep buffs on them even when not in a fight so when the fight starts, I just play the debuff and silence

[subtle coral]

whats the difference between true physical and regual phyiscal

[glacial schooner]

true ignores resistance

[stuck perch]

The fun thing with bard was rotating through the different songs and keeping as many of them up as could be applied to the situation. If this becomes the case, bard would be reduced to picking and playing a single song.

[glacial schooner]

10 damage w 27.9% reduction vs 10 damage no reduction. @subtle coral

[empty valve]

You could increase the lingering effect tbh, but rn its awful. Buffing 30 times before a fight is really unfun and creates an awful gameplay loop

[lucid folio]

only being able to apply one thing at the time would kill the class

[empty valve]

Did just respond to that yea, makes sense tho

[stuck perch]

You do you, I hear enemy bards buffing their teams all the time especially right before a fight. Besides Allegro and accelerando only last 8s, so I'd love to hear how you keep those buffs up all the time and still find the time to cast other songs especially silence.

[lucid folio]

harmonic shield 120 sec, beats of alacrity 120 sec, rousing rhythms 30 sec

[stuck perch]

Typically you keep the 2min buffs up all the time. Throw in the occasional Tranquility or Chorus of Clarity as needed, then when it comes to fighting you either debuff if they're in range or go Accelerando and Allegro if they're not.

[stuck perch]

Rousing Rythym lasts 120, despite what the tooltip says unless they nerfed it in the last hotfix.

[lucid folio]

debuffing opponents and silencing the cleric do much more than just playing accelerando or allegro

[strong cedar]

running into so many full purple/legendary gear teams in normals, wheres the gear limit on normals

[empty valve]

Ye thats kinda the problem tho, thats really basic and boring. Like a 2 minute buff on ANYTHING is too much for no cost
Thats really gotta be changed or nerfed IMO

[lucid folio]

yeah, I noticed it lasting longer, but wasn't sure if it's 120 or 60

since I reapply them whenever we aren't fighting anything

[stuck perch]

Yet that only works if they're within range, and if you don't know their comp silence may well be wasted. If they're just around the corner and waiting, Din or shrill can do more than silence will. We've killed people because they were waiting us out through those spells.

[lucid folio]

we know the comps every time since we don't just w key into them like idiots

if they have cleric, he will cast buffs before the fight and it will crate sounds unique to that class

[stuck perch]

A lot of bards don't even take lute spells. As far as knowing comps, sometimes you see a single player sometimes you see 2. It's rare that they'll just strait up announce themselves until they're breaking down the door and charging in.

[lucid folio]

not taking the spell that gives you 15% action speed (therefore, song playing speed) and the silence one is pure stupidity

[stuck perch]

The appropriate buff or debuff to prioritize depends on the situation. Both your team comp and their team comp needs to be taken into account.

[lucid folio]

accelerando and allegro is just a lazy way to approach the fight in which you could do much more by actively using other ones

[stuck perch]

Aria of Alacrity doesn't increase your spell speed, spell speed is purely spell casting speed. Action speed increases your attack speed and not your casting speed. It's been tested.

[lucid folio]

the opposite has also been tested and I have no reason to believe a random person on discord after seeing an actual test

[stuck perch]

It's simple, next time you go in, cast aria of alacrity twice in a row. you'll note there's no difference between the two. If you cast it, then cast Rousing Rythyms then cast it again the increase in cast speed you get is purely from rousing rythym.

no buff to Aria of alacrity is the exact same speed as aria of alacrity being cast while still having the buff from aria of alacrity.

[zealous thorn]

Sooo aria doesnt speed up the song

[stuck perch]

Pretty much. Rousing Rythym does due to the increase in knowledge, and Allegro also does because it specifically buffs cast speed.

[glacial citrus]

Sort button for inventory and stash!!!

[zealous thorn]

Imagine having a action wheel by holding down 3/4 like the spells but for items

[stuck perch]

That's acutally a good idea. You should submit that so we can upvote it.

[analog thunder]

In terms of quality of life, will there be an increase in Class slots because at some point we may have to delete 1 class.

[zealous thorn]

I dont know how lol

[stuck perch]

We probably will or people will just have to choose which classes they want.
@zealous thorn I'll pm you the link

[chilly summit]

I dont think its a bad mechanic, its ok u think that it is. The point is changing a mechanic that people mastered and even nerf buffs after it. Its just a game breaking and bard, now is actually bad

[zealous thorn]

What is the point of levels? Just to unlock perks? 15-20 seems like a waste

[sand thicket]

MAKE SURE A PORTAL SPANWS AT LEAST ONCE ON EACH FLOOR SO PEOPLE DONT GET FKED

[stuck perch]

It's better than keeping it around, and nerfing it constantly or nerfing the bard's song constantly because they're being played way faster than intended or they're designed to be played that fast and are weak to compensate.

[stuck perch]

Explain

[analog spoke]

he prolly died to zone with full inv

[sand thicket]

in the goblin dungeon i always die because no portal is accesible to me. so they should spawn on every floor so i dont have to sit there and cope while i lose my whole set

[zealous thorn]

I added it

[analog spoke]

Might I suggest you to take a peek of potential portal spawns on the interactive map?A bit of time and youll learn them all
PS: beats dying IMO

[stuck perch]

You shouldn't wait until the end to get to the 2nd floor. The portals mostly spawn up there and worse comes to worse it's easier to jump down than to find stairs and climb up.

[sand thicket]

yeah but im not to familiar with the map and i feel like for new players they wont want to play because they will have the same problem. but there is fs a wayaround it

[stuck perch]

Which map is that? The only one I see only has the stairs extract.

[analog spoke]

Im sorry to tell you, but in my opinion if you're not willing to spend a bit of time to do one of the most important things: get out alive you will not enjoy this game ever

[stuck perch]

There's only 1 goblin cave map for normal and one for HR. There are nine rooms, learn each room and what's the best ways to leave it. Keep in mind that other players may have used the portals that spawned near you before you arrived.

[analog spoke]

Yeah, this guy is giving good advice. It may seem daunting and annoying but if you really want to play and dont want to "study" then just accept that youll die. A LOT.then some more, then youll learn the hard way

[stuck perch]

The safer bet though is going straight to the crypts, with or without a group. The monsters are generally easier there and the dungeon is larger. Just avoid players if you can.

Both have player density issues IMO.

[analog spoke]

I suggest if you need some information look it up : https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Dark_and_Darker_Wiki this wiki is pretty full of great knowledge and probably help

[stuck perch]

You can find the maps on there too, with a bunch of filters.

[hasty lotus]

bard is straight ass now . i need a 90% perfection rate to play piercing schrill and its 8 fucking notes?

[viral zephyr]

man bards were so boosted lol

[hasty lotus]

and thats with charismatic performer? they killed my boy

[stuck perch]

Try listening to the beat and clicking on the notes with it, it works rather well for most songs. You can get to the point where you don't even need to look at the notes.

[analog spoke]

hmm and its an AOE that goes thru walls, making you work for it a bit is only fair I think

[hasty lotus]

they songs are completely useless in combat now. bard has no offensive ability it takes 8 seconds to proc 1 time lol.

[stuck perch]

Would it be better for Charismatic performance to forgive a 2nd note but not speed up the song?

[hasty lotus]

whats the point of the charismatic performer perk now? if i still need to hit a 90% to proc. the songs are too long and too weak. i get the buff duration might of been an issue but shit takes too long to play to be useful.

it doesnt speed up the song , i would need accelerando to do that. and thats another 8 secs to proc

[stuck perch]

I'd rather my songs be played fully but powerful instead of cheesing it out for a 50% cast duration but with reduced impact. Casting speed can still be increased through buffs and stats.

[hasty lotus]

so i need 8 seconds to play a buff swithc to flute 7 seconds to cast the damage skill leaving me a few seconds to rebuff for the next attack?

[stuck perch]

You've got to pick which song will have the most impact in a given situation. Your team comp and their team comp all factors in.

[hasty lotus]

good luck trying to use any offensive bard song in pvp now

[placid summit]

We need to nerf fighters! As a ranger player, Why can a fighter use the same bow as me and do more damage when I do less to him because of armor etc… plus they have extra speedx2 to close distance and shield?! The fighter is a better version of ranger when ranger has no spells.

[tranquil plaza]

Ur buffs last like 2min already op

[soft finch]

Fighter can't triple shot or shotgun arrow, and does suffer a 10% penalty

[hasty lotus]

bro i know how to play bard. the issue is everything already takes a stupid long time and concetration to cast. so they nerf the debuff and make everything take longer to cast?

[stuck perch]

I find the offensive songs to be better when the other team is pussyfooting on the other side of a door or on a ledge. They either come down and die or die to your songs.

[lunar matrix]

nerf rogue meta

[tranquil plaza]

Nerf fighters

[hasty lotus]

i agree the buffs lasttoo long. that would be a better fix than making the shit harder to play. now all other classes are more effective with a bards weapon than a bard itself. its silly. also nerfing the one personal physical damage buff the bad had from 30 to 10?

a fucking rouge or barb can get a higher base damage use with the drum than a bard ever could throwing it. its fucking silly. the whole point of the bard is to buff and deal damage playing music. now theres no effectiveness to either.

[chilly summit]

No, it's not, now bard is just useless, prob worst than warlock his musics are already not that good and now he cant be useful on pvp, now its just bad

[stuck perch]

I like long lasting buffs. It gives you more time to do stuff while keeping it up. Of course not all buffs should be long buffs, but consider that with several long buffs and debuffs you allow for mechanics like cleanse and hopefully some sort of dispel magic to come into play.

[stuck perch]

Should we have really fast songs that are really weak? How does that help?

[hasty lotus]

i like to depend myself with skills. which i can no longer do because i taks 8 seconds to cast 1 skill that might hit for 25 damage before armor calculations.

its also already really weak. nerf the buffs not my offensive abilities tf.

[stuck perch]

That's true, but keep in mind that Shrill and Din both hit every enemy in range and can't do friendly fire, they also hit through cover including closed doors and walls.

[hasty lotus]

bard is just a mid tier support now. nothing special to it. shit why even have a skill check at all if the class is gonna be this dogshit?

[chilly summit]

Yes, now its just useless, not worth to play with the class. Why would u have a bard now? The 40 Armor on a battle is way worst than any other class dealing damage, the time he would spend singing the armor pen on a pvp battle is too long, the enemy can rush u while it and ur team will die while singing. Like i said, now its just a bad class

[hasty lotus]

fucking cleric legit has an AoE that one taps mobsat base level and i have to play the fuck out of a flute 7 times to kill a single skeleton.

[stuck perch]

That 25 damage is potentially x3 if it hits their entire team on top of the echo debuff it gives.

[chilly summit]

You wont have time to do it on a battle

[hasty lotus]

that 25 damage is more like 10 after armor calculations .

[hasty lotus]

exactly theres no point to event attempt the song now. too long to play and if you screw up early you might as well start over no redemption. event with charismatic performer you needs an 85-90% rate.

[hasty lotus]

and theres also a massive skill check to even cast it.

[stuck perch]

I use it as a rather situational song. It's great for clearing out hoards of spiders in some rooms especially if players are having trouble fighting them and other monsters. You can also round up a large group, do armor debuff then shrill for extra damage, but it does take a few shots before they feel it. The upside is that the whole hoard takes damage which can be faster than killing them individually.

[hasty lotus]

the drums do the same fucking thing lol just worse. theres no offensive skill ability worth using pvp now.

[stuck perch]

the problem with charismatic performer was the note skipping part, not the making your shit performance better.

[hasty lotus]

you're really happy needingtoclear 8 notes to hit 25 damage before armor calculations. thats uneffected by stat increases? just a base 25 every time?

[stuck perch]

Drums are better with gear, but also they let you walk around and unstealth rogues.

Are they better than wacking an enemy with your rapier? No, but they have their uses. Unless people crying on them get them nerfed to uselessness.

[hasty lotus]

theres no chance to get a kill now tho. a rogue can just unstealth and kill you while you play your stipud little song.

[stuck perch]

Then your group gives him the beat down or you throw your drum at him and likely kill him.

[hasty lotus]

um yes. actually rogue can both poison and ripple a drum.

also that proves my point. if i have to throw my drum its the more effective manner of combat the class is useless.

[soft finch]

Which dosent hurt players , your flute does lmao

[stuck perch]

It's effective right before drawing your rapier and using it to fight normally. I mean you have your drum out anyways and you're not going to be playing while a rogue's trying to stab you.

[hasty lotus]

its funny that you guys are legit only giving me alternatives to combat other than playing music. the whole system this class was designed to do.

[stuck perch]

But bard isn't just music. It's also fast rapier combat, if you look at his selfish buffs he can be quite the nimble frontliner.

[hasty lotus]

like cant do damage with your skills? try throwing your drum? we talked about this . other classes are still more effective at throwing the drum so i would prefer we avoid these hypothetical situations and only speak on the facts of the class. and the fact is theres no point to use songs in combat at all now.

rogues are still better with rapiers. bard perk isnt even good. and in a week they'll probably nerf that too.

[soft finch]

Bard is a buffing/support class man, dealing damage with the music isn't the primary point

[hasty lotus]

the buffs are even worse now . andharder to play. thats my complaint.

[soft finch]

Because before they were totally cancerous

[hasty lotus]

you guys sit on the floor to cheese the wraith and get made when i skip a few notes to play a rediculously long song slightly faster.

[soft finch]

You have literally unlimited casts of those buffs.

And you can crouch on lower incline to kill wraith too, what's your point?

[hasty lotus]

half the people in here comenting against bard probably never played one.

the buffs are better for you than me. im actually sick of people asking for them. oh sure. let me do my lil skill check for yo so you can be stronger.

[soft finch]

Maybe playing a support class ain't for you then dude because that's your entire job

[hasty lotus]

while i still have literally no skilled ability to defend myself ouside of throwing my drum. which other classes do better lol

[soft finch]

You've got access to using the falchion, you have plenty of ability to defend yourself, especially with buffs running.

[hasty lotus]

look man , all im trying to say is making the songs harder to play isnt going to make the class any fairer. the buffs are still long. it just ruins the bards ability to defend itself outsie of the same shit every other class is doing. its not fair that other classes can pick up and use my skill token better than the class itself. im constantly switching between 4 instruments playing skill checks and it doesnt seems like theres any point now that i have to do everything perfectly. it was hard enough just having skill check to use an ability. now i have a perk that legit does nothing and worse off buffs and personal damage output.+

[eternal shore]

why is the warlocks range so ASS

[obtuse hedge]

geared players are a big problem, hear me out. casual should be only up to green can be brought in but you can still find blues and purps. and high roller should be for blues and above. would solve everyones complaining and the fact that geared players get even more gear do to not being naked like 70% of the lobby

[hasty lotus]

right , but i have no better abilities outside of any other class. thats my point. the buffs dont help the bard itself enough to make it a viable solution. i could play any other class and be more of a utility now seeing as how other classes skills dont take 8 second skill checks to cast.

[slow hearth]

we should be able to have more characters. Can't even make 1 character for each class