26 geo for defeating Zote, that's lore accurate
#Archipelago Multiworld Multi-game Randomizer
ancient harness
ancient harness
Alright back to BK mode
weary lagoon
my ass with all 3 elemental arrows but no bow..
fierce vale
dw i'll get it for you, i dont know if its in my world but i gotcha bestie 
weary lagoon
HUGE
ancient harness
ancient harness
So where are your three bows?
ancient harness
I hope I have one
weary lagoon
ancient harness
But I'm waiting on Lantern and Tram pass,
weary lagoon
heres the only interesting thing that was in my bomb shop
i cant buy it without a bigger wallet so I didnt int by not not going here 
giga
your compass was in my spirit temple thats so funny..
ancient harness
Decided to make BK mode real 
weary lagoon
damn kinda inted a key in the spirit temple
will need the bow to progress
to the well!
midnight depot
Nice
weary lagoon
Ixrec, I think you had my mirror shield in a shop. I will need that after I get my bow
clear summit
While I enjoyed this run, I think I will try a different game if I get to participate in another run
RoR2 is not the best game for this type of rando
midnight depot
That makes sense
fresh hill
Ixrec, I think you had my mirror shield in a shop. I will need that after I get ...
I do, pretty sure it was blocked on charms/grubs but not as badly as the bow
weary lagoon
midnight depot
I guess I'll just have to find all your grubs
weary lagoon
Except theres 3 bows and 1 mirror shield
Im not sure if I need to complete the spirit temple to beat the game though
fresh hill
do any of the other games have these non-money shop requirements?
weary lagoon
I have 5 adult dungeons to do and only need two more medallions
Well in ocarina a lot of shop items are locked behind wallet upgrades
midnight depot
In Dark Souls a lot of shops are locked behind finding key items
weary lagoon
the spirit temple will either hold one of the 2 medallions or one of the 3 stones that I dont need
at least I dont need them as far as I am aware
fresh hill
I guess I should say non-money requirements introduced by the randomiser
weary lagoon
If I get 3 stones I get a song I might need
midnight depot
No
fresh hill
I know base HK has a few special rewards for all charms and grubs but nothing blocking and I feel like nowhere near this many
midnight depot
Hollow Knight gets to do it by abusing the Salubra alternate currency mechanic in the base game
I'm getting a lot of items from everyone overnight. Thanks!
ancient harness
If only you'd return the favour
weary lagoon
my first half of spirit temple had a lot of stuff for you
midnight depot
I'm still blocked by movement options
fresh hill
I guess what I’m really getting at is that most of what I’ve been asked by other players to get is shop stuff blocked on high collectible counts I have little control over, and so far only once was it an item I could go run around the world and get, and the latter’s what we usually want I think
although if I have double jump now, someone wanted a thing from my Queens garden
midnight depot
Right. I did choose specifically to make it a 50% chance that you need at least two alternate currencies, which may have been a little excessive, but it should still go for Geo requirements at a much higher rate than anything else
ancient harness
Can we shuffle grubs and essence but not Father Grub and moth lady rewards?
ancient harness
That's probably optimal
fresh hill
agree that grubfather/seer/jiji might be better with their standard rewards but their currency items randomised
midnight depot
Jiji has no standard rewards
ancient harness
It means some guaranteed stuff in your vanilla world, but that's:
Grubfather - Mask shard, the two Grub charms, rancid egg, one pale ore, one seal, one idol
Seer - Seal, 1 ore, dream nail charm, dreamgate, egg, shard, awakened dream nail
It's mostly unimportant and non-blocking/non-opening stuff
midnight depot
What about regular shops? How do you feel about charm, rancid egg and grub requirements for those?
ancient harness
I'm fine with Sly, Iselda and Salubra shuffled
midnight depot
As well as essence
ancient harness
Geo is super abundant
midnight depot
Yeah, it makes sense to have other currency barriers sometimes for the regular shops
fresh hill
to me the main downside of shuffling the shops are no longer distinct, effectively one megashop with its inventory weirdly split among six locations and I keep forgetting to warp to one or two of them
weary lagoon
Havent done the HK rando but feels like the shops would be too OP if nothing locked them. As stated, both OoT and DS3 shops are balanced around items being locked behind key items
fresh hill
but if it was just the three crossroads shops that's back to mostly a non-issue
and my only complaint about the alt currency barriers is how high they are
like I have 5-10 items I'm not allowed to buy until I have nearly every charm or grub in the game
weary lagoon
yeah 42/46 is kinda dumb
midnight depot
I could set it so you only need half of each currency at most
fresh hill
yeah, if we do this again that'd probably be for the best
since I have little control over how much of a "currency collectible" I end up with, any requirement on it is either "too easy" / guaranteed to happen eventually, or too high and a BK risk, and the former is better
(rancid eggs I can go buy myself so they're equivalent to geo with a mildly tedious extra step lol)
weary lagoon
you can just buy rancid eggs?
ancient harness
Yeah from a guy in the sewers
fresh hill
flitter had to tell me where tbf
midnight depot
Tuk from the sewers is locked behind a key and a secret wall, but can sell endless rancid eggs
Looks like the Colosseum has good stuff this time around https://i.imgur.com/krnecR7.png
Legendary item and 15 geo
fresh hill
ok, highlights from what everyone got me overnight are double jump, right shadow dash, grimmchild charm, and the other two dreamers / final boss keys
that might just be enough to get the basic ending
ancient harness
Oh yeah. 3 more flames and I get to fight NKG
fresh hill
but first, there's that root I couldn't quite get yesterday, so up spell for flitter
midnight depot
Thank you!
fresh hill
and now to find out how much queen's gardens can be done without left dash
ancient harness
All of it with double jump, but you'll suffer
fresh hill
I forgot this bench has a little "speaker" in front of the window, and the background music now sounds like it's being played from this low tech setup
that was my 30th grub
I feel like that unlocks something
oh yeah and I never visited the seer yesterday
so shop loop before I do more QG
midnight depot
The hive has a lot of nice things
Shade soul, Artiks's piece of heart, charm notch for wcctnoam
fresh hill
oooh, another charm
midnight depot
That's very lucky
fresh hill
which brings me to 34 charms
ancient harness
I dream of an OP build with the cheapest Strength and quickslash for starters
weary lagoon
fresh hill
hm, nah
midnight depot
You have to give the flower to the old man though
fresh hill
flitter's elegant key is 36 charms, that might actually happen today
midnight depot
There are two checks behind it
fresh hill
somehow two of my weaverlings got stuck on this corner
midnight depot
This is funny
fresh hill
it really doesn't look like a corner that things would stick to
TIL there's a dark room in QG
midnight depot
It connects to Deepnest
fresh hill
makes sense, it was making deepnesty sounds
ancient harness
Oof, my tram pass is at the bottom of Yay's well
midnight depot
I don't think I can make much progress without my mantis claws. One is Water Temple Cracked Wall Chest (Artiks) and the other is Shadow Temple Bongo Bongo Heart (Artiks)
fresh hill
in this room, without left dash? lol not worth it
midnight depot
The hardest part of this room is getting to the annoying root in the first place
ancient harness
All keys are
fresh hill
sounds like an appropriate swap with the love key
omg it's the moss prophet, I never found this guy in my original playthrough
midnight depot
Grand Archives is an important area in DS3.
weary lagoon
yeah, it has my iron boots
ancient harness
I did !remaining for myself. I have 10 Grimmkin flames. I guess I got them all.
midnight depot
Well it's how I got in
ancient harness
On my first playthrough my dumb ass beat Mantis Lords without even going to city, then went straight into Deepnest and fell through the point-of-no-return
fresh hill
meanwhile I don't think I found mantis lords until much later than I was meant to
weary lagoon
Team Cherry adding Deepnest to the game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpfYQmE5W_g
midnight depot
Oh right. Now that I have the void heart and swim I should be able to get through the abyss
fierce vale
In Dark Souls a lot of shops are locked behind finding key items
theres only two locked fully behind key items to memory, evil witch and greirat
so litterally first and last
fierce vale
also shops arent randomised so its mno checks
midnight depot
That makes sense
fierce vale
eh, some have tomes, only greirats and evil lady ashes arent rng
fresh hill
"shira's armor"?
fierce vale
anything for me that sounds like armour cam be skipped
midnight depot
Shira's armor is an endgame DLC light armor
fierce vale
i need "keys" "tomes" "ashes" or "tiny doll"
weary lagoon
I think I got you an ashes today
fierce vale
also stormruler would be nice but i can fuxk that guy up
ancient harness
I sent you Small Doll this morning 
weary lagoon
and ixrec just found you a key to an area with my iron boots
clear summit
chip when are you going to start the npc massacre 
fierce vale
i murdered 3 already
midnight depot
It looks like Beast's Den is full of yay's skulltula tokens
fierce vale
i need the others
for now
oh also i need slabs, apparently slabs are the only upgrade mat rngd
fresh hill
lol, I leaned down to pick up a skulltula token right before a flytrap chomped my head
weary lagoon
if theres another run im def shuffling in keys and skulltulas
fresh hill
Marmu!
fresh hill
yet another boss with a tiny geo reward lol
fierce vale
if i played ds3 again id probably tick most options
force equip all equipment, lock slots so i cant change em
infinite carry weight and no stat reqs to cover my ass
fresh hill
FINALLY found QG cornifer
midnight depot
Nice
fresh hill
yep, got nearly the whole region before finding him
midnight depot
Oh, it looks like I don't need right mantis claw for anything
It's only left mantis claw that's required
fresh hill
I think I found one of those "suffering without left dash" rooms
midnight depot
Oh is it the room below cornifer's room?
The one where you have to loop around to hit a switch?
fresh hill
that was a bit tricky but not suffering exactly
(especially after I remembered I have right dash 
)
no I think this is the approach to white queen
midnight depot
You have shadow dash?
fresh hill
only right
midnight depot
Okay, so you can't go through because the barrier is to the left
And there's only one entrance to that area
fresh hill
I made it!
midnight depot
Oh, I thought it was completely impossible to proceed without left shade cloak
fresh hill
we're probably talking about different rooms
ok that's the shortcut back to greenpath
ancient harness
Left shade cloak only stops you from getting to Traitor Lord
fresh hill
and opening both sides of that shortcut exposes a root which gives wcct another treasure
ah, the vine spikes can't be pogo'd
so this path definitely isn't possible without left dash
and this other path has a left shadow geyser(???) so apparently I'm not getting white lady or traitor lord yet
right, Flitter wanted me to find Grub-Queen's_Gardens_Top
based on my map so far, I'm guessing that's the one which was hard blocked by left dash because you can't pogo vines
midnight depot
Left crystal dash
You do not need regular dashes
It's the one you need to break the glass for
It's definitely not easy!
fresh hill
oooh crap you're right I forgot I had crystal dash
midnight depot
Might be the hardest grub in the game
fresh hill
frick I already warped away from it
ok if I come in through greenpath no suffering required
and it's yours
now back to my original plan: finally filling in this conspicuous gap in my early game map
I just left my minions on because with double jump dodging the bombs sounds fun
found him, so this is how much of the canyon I got before the map
fresh hill
seems fitting that Monomon would have a pile of bombchus in here
those things are weird
jellyfish down
midnight depot
Uumuu is a lot more annoying if you have to wait for Quirrel
fresh hill
the giant bacta tank contains yay's bombs lol
what was the non-waiting strategy again?
fresh hill
oooh
midnight depot
You can explode one on Uumuu, then get a few hits in and explode the second
This ends the fight in one cycle
If you're really good you can end the fight with one jellyfish and then use the second one for the next boss
fresh hill
ok I believe I'm done with fog canyon now
next I'll visit FW, CP and CoT because I remember all of those having stuff blocked on double jump
then Kingdom's Edge
midnight depot
Oh I have an important check in your crystal peaks
Just remember there are two secret rooms on the way to the pale ore at the tippy top
fresh hill
excellent, found my 35th charm in the crossroads->wastes entrance I was never able to get before
yay's water temple boss key was in a ld/dj-blocked mantis village chest
along with one two of her small keys
fungal core was mostly a disappointment, but its route to deepnest had yet another yay key
cornifer let me rebuy the deepnest map? 
fierce vale
almost time for me to stubbornly brute force friede before doing the basin of vows path unless i got the tiny doll at some point
midnight depot
The randomizer puts both Cornifers in deepnest with the expectation you will randomize maps
The base game shows you the first one
fresh hill
neat
weary lagoon
did you see that my iron boots were in your world
fierce vale
no, where are they bestie
weary lagoon
If I have iron boots I can probably get some checks in water temple before I get bow locked again
fresh hill
somehow two of my weaverlings got stuck on this corner
once again^, how did they get stuck on this corner of all places
fierce vale
i can technically grab that, its grand archive which is 2 pretty short zones down the basin path
weary lagoon
I will need them at some point (if water temple is required) but its only 2nd priority right now to the bow
midnight depot
Crystal Guardian is such a fun boss
He's the only one that is not a bullet sponge
fresh hill
this root has your cyclone slash, might go for that
fierce vale
friede into lothric castle into grand archives maybe with untended graves first since its super ahort and has like 20+ checks
midnight depot
If you get me cyclone slash I can finally see what's behind Sly's shop
fresh hill
there you go
and one of your grimm flames
and your simple key
this rock just needs a hug 
was that everything you wanted from my crystal peak?
is "nayrus love" important?
Wayward Compass! (for Flitter)
lol wcct's city crest
finally meet the essence check for a yay key at salubra's
seems like a good sign that I'm finding more keys than skulltulas for once
weary lagoon
is "nayrus love" important?
no
of the three spell stones only Din's Fire is important
fresh hill
Xero down
midnight depot
There's a mod charm there that lets me double my minion numbers
fresh hill
final city of tears bench found
and a shortcut that immediately makes it obsolete lol
oh shape of unn and grimmchild are free, guess I'll throw those on too
time for the boss I sucked on the most in my first playthrough
1 down
3 down
and all 5 down
yes I used the chandelier
15 geo, 15 geo and a deku shield? well yay's had the hylian shield for days so that's probably useless but oh well
midnight depot
I use a mod that hides grimmchild except in boss arenas because it has annoying sounds
fresh hill
mimic grub got me
got so used to those not actually existing except as bits of text in the mod client
midnight depot
All right. I'm back
fresh hill
I'm thinking waterways next, I did so much of that before but never found the map
midnight depot
Sly had the city storerooms stag
weary lagoon
deku shield is good for child Link
fresh hill
oh child doesn't get hylian shield?
midnight depot
Can I beat NKG without upslash?
fresh hill
ooooh
ancient harness
Absolutely
fresh hill
I would say yes, several of NKG's openings are horizontal slashes, and many of the upslash openings can be up spells
midnight depot
The attack where I deal the most damage is the one where he stands still though
fresh hill
all it would really do is make the fight take longer
midnight depot
That one I do like five upslashes
I can't do a spell because he'd shoot fire at me
fresh hill
that's the one where I do horizontal slashes on approach until he pops his last fire and then up spell while he waits for the fire to end
midnight depot
Barely got him https://i.imgur.com/yEQ7ujl.png
The cheaper charms helped a lot, especially the free Fury of the Fallen
midnight depot
Beating NKG does not actually give you any checks, but it upgrades grimmchild
I think this is important https://i.imgur.com/wxkXKc4.png
ancient harness
It's barely used
fresh hill
fresh hill
midnight depot
Oh nice, that was my last pale ore
fresh hill
I believe I'm still missing one
pogo'd my way out of there to prove I could do it too lol
midnight depot
This is the room I said you could reach by only pogoing!
fresh hill
again I find a soul for chip, not an ashes
fresh hill
conveniently I had enough money to outright "buy" the fountain's 6000 geo vessel fragment
fierce vale
apparently yay got me the stormruler earlier, i dont have to do the gimic fight
midnight depot
This one's a really tight skip https://i.imgur.com/RMDT7QS.png
fresh hill
oh you still don't have isma's tear?
midnight depot
Gotta jump, dash left and jump again before you dip into the acid
My Isma's tear is nowhere near
fresh hill
my rancid egg collection is now at 37
perhaps I bought too many of them
those 26 geo were hard to get without left dash
midnight depot
Better too many than too few
Whoa!
Turns out you can skip this one too https://i.imgur.com/C2jtjLD.png
Jump dash jump as before
fresh hill
I hope that soul refill was useful it because ick
midnight depot
It was nice
I'm struggling in Fog Canyon because someone sent me the third king fragment which made it so I can't get infinite soul anymore
fresh hill
ok, Broken Vessel time
I have all white masks so I probably don't need a bench for this
midnight depot
I usually just tank broken vessel because I have more damage than it has health
midnight depot
Yeah, it has a low amount of health
And most of its attacks puts it at a dash away from you
fresh hill
lost kin time I guess
ok my super lazy attempt staggered it a few times but didn't kill it
let's actually try now
midnight depot
Uumuu's dead, but I can't actually get the dreamer without my claws
fresh hill
lol
ok this guy is actually really hard without both slashes and both dashes
my muscle memory is constantly trying to do things I cannot do
midnight depot
That makes sense!
However, consider instead getting quick slash, unbreakable strength, fury of the fallen, mark of the pride, heavy slash and long nail
Then you just need to hit X as fast as possible
fresh hill
and he's dead
didn't get to read your comments sorry lol
I have a lot of those actually
fresh hill
apparently I paused at exactly the wrong moment to trigger a glitch that makes my screen stuck on pure white
warping fixes it
fresh hill
fortunately I'm done with the whole left half of basin now
Jay, how badly do you need one "item scrap, white"?
midnight depot
Item scrap is nice because you can turn it into any item you find a printer for, but only red and green scrap are actually useful
fresh hill
so not worth it
and we don't need awoken dream nail... or wait do we need that on the final boss?
midnight depot
You need it for the radiance
fresh hill
kk
midnight depot
But you only need the hollow knight to beat the game
midnight depot
Neat!
fresh hill
and I don't have the king's brand so that's it for ancient basin
midnight depot
Blue lake next?
fresh hill
I've technically been there, did you need something I missed?
midnight depot
The love key is in the rancid egg there
You need to crystal dash right from Salubra's
fresh hill
cool, I'd already warped to salubra's
midnight depot
Ah, thank you
fresh hill
there
fresh hill
apparnetly I don't have love key either
midnight depot
It looked like I needed the mantis claw
But apparently jumping against the wall, dashing then jumping again gives me a tiny bit more height
fresh hill
huh, I have all 10 of my grimmkin flames, all unspent still
fresh hill
I have yet to run into any naturally
midnight depot
I can fight the collector without mantis claws but I need the claws for the reward
fresh hill
just turned on the map mod with only those pinned so I can go grab the easy ones
midnight depot
You can spend the grimmkin flames by going to the big tent with grimmchild equipped
fresh hill
ooh I never got this quirrel in my first run
midnight depot
Which one?
fresh hill
midnight depot
Oh, that's the one where he dies
fresh hill
presumably
midnight depot
I have a mod that lets you give him a flower
fresh hill
You can spend the grimmkin flames by going to the big tent with grimmchild equip...
yes I've done this in vanilla lol
midnight depot
Thanks for the lore!
Turns out there's a pogo skip to Dung Defender https://i.imgur.com/V4vDh94.png
fresh hill
ok that's enough grimmkin for now
that's easily the most scuffed grimm fight I ever won lol
midnight depot
That was really nice!
fresh hill
[Everyone Liked That]
considering I was missing half slash and half dash I'm pretty happy with how the actual fight went
whoa, calm down man, I'm interested in Hornet
fresh hill
Dung Defender gave me... an ice trap for yay
weary lagoon
If I get 50 skulltulas I can ice trap yay
midnight depot
...
I think I found a triple jump skip of some sort
Jump while hugging a wall, dash, double jump, repeat
Can't reproduce it consistently
Wcctnoam's pale ore!
fresh hill
Wcct's Pale Ore was at the Isma's Tear location, nice
sage dawn
Needing almost every charm would be like needing 98 skulltula tokens which would suck
fresh hill
yep
fierce vale
i beat friede massively underleveled
fresh hill
I am at 35/40 charms, so I may use some hints on the remaining charms
midnight depot
Very nice
fierce vale
i will resist the urge to do second dlc
fresh hill
(might've already if it was easier to work out which charms I'm missing)
midnight depot
Friede is the most difficult boss in the game for most people
I can tell you which charms you're missing!
midnight depot
Let's see https://i.imgur.com/UoPksK6.png
sage dawn
Sorry if I'm holding anyone back. Will get on when I:m done with work.
In 3ish houts
*hours
fresh hill
fwiw I haven't heard of anyone being blocked on you atm
sage dawn
I think Jay has a map in my shadow temple?
midnight depot
You're missing the compass, grubberfly elegy,
fresh hill
the most important item that I hinted is in Artik's world and I'm guessing blocked on my 38 charms for a bow thing
sage dawn
It's an out of logic check for me but I can do it with megaflips
sage dawn
There are three bows so Artiks might find another
midnight depot
Here's every item in yay's world that we have hints for https://i.imgur.com/wUMoVmK.png
midnight depot
So that's my left crystal heart (not bocking), Wcctnoam's Tram pass (he needs it to access hive
sage dawn
Yeah sorry I was skimming because there was a lot of messages
And he doesn't have to hint them for someone to luck into them
midnight depot
Chip's Cell Key and Mortician's Ashes, as well as Jay's area
Oh, and Isma's tear for me!
sage dawn
Oh I was legit going to go to collusus next. I can get that tram pass really quickly
midnight depot
I think I need that for a couple of spots
Funny how all three of our checks are in Desert Colossus > Spirit Temple Lobby
sage dawn
No that's just where bottom of the well is
sage dawn
But yeah the bottom of the well checks I will do as soon as I get on. The one in I've cavern I need another boss beaten because it's at ganon's castle
midnight depot
And you still only have the regular one
midnight depot
No shaman stone for you, but you might benefit from soul eater
fresh hill
pretty sure I have that
sage dawn
Does chip need the mortician's ashes? I need nocturn or to learn a new glitch for that.
fresh hill
oh
fresh hill
I had soul eater on for a long time, what did I replace it with
sage dawn
No shop rando for him?
midnight depot
Mortician's ashes allow him to buy fire pine resin, the grave key, and alluring skulls
fresh hill
oh maybe when I got mark of pride I decided equipping both long nails was more important
midnight depot
He is not randomizing shops
fresh hill
now that I'm getting to the point where bosses are a bigger concern than random mobs
ok that's enough waterways, I have no idea where the map is but I feel like I've been everywhere, let's do kingdom's edge
sage dawn
Okay. So Jay's map is soft pending hovers. Crystal heart is soft pending nocturn. Everything else important I can do.
Should I prioritize Jay's map so he can basically wrap up his game?
After the bottom of the well stuff at least.
midnight depot
Jay is in the east Asian time zone, I think, so he won't get to play for a few hours after you
sage dawn
Oh cool. Yeah I will hold out for hovers a bit longer. Shadow is annoying without them
midnight depot
Today I learned about Slopeball https://antifandom.com/hollow-knight-speedrunning/wiki/Slopeball
Where you can pogo against your own fireballs if you shoot them at sloped walls
sage dawn
Also I don't know why but this rando thread gives me Homestuck pester log vibes for some reason.
midnight depot
That's good, right?
sage dawn
Yee
fierce vale
midnight depot
Me
sage dawn
Oh I thought you were more of a problem sleuth fan
fresh hill
I only read Moonstuck 
sage dawn
Fair fair
midnight depot
Toll machines are apparently faster if you focus real hard while waiting for one to finish deploying
fierce vale
fresh hill
omg
ancient harness
CRAAAAAAAAzy
midnight depot
Every tournament is like 66% longer than it should be
fresh hill
Soul of Boreal Valley Vordt, probably not worth a whole tournament
huh, no special item for the final trial?
midnight depot
Vordt's soul is garbage. Doesn't give a lot of money, but some people like the weapon you make from it
The final trial only has money like in Vanilla
midnight depot
That's as many as you needed
Now that you have both Bretta and Zote you should get more checks
fresh hill
Bretta! I knew I forgot something
fresh hill
that was a double jump block
I was supposed to get her when I revisited FW earlier but fungal core took so long I forgot
midnight depot
You only need claw and dashes to get Bretta
(It's left)
I like how if you rescue Bretta after Zote she immediately forgets about you, instead getting infatuated with him
fresh hill
immediately is right lol
midnight depot
You should dreamnail her before and after you fight the dream zote
fresh hill
that's what was blocked on 36!
midnight depot
Oh, my elegant key!
midnight depot
You can beat him
fresh hill
have I mentioned I never once defeated Grey Prince Zote
probably yeah but it'll be semi-new for me
midnight depot
Go for a minion+healing build and run away
fresh hill
that's... basically what I have already, conveniently
midnight depot
Well done
fresh hill
uh-oh, did the steam overlay cause the whiteness bug
midnight depot
Maybe
Each time you beat Grey Prince Zote, another torch next to the statue lights up and the fight becomes harder
fresh hill
that part I was aware of
midnight depot
And Bretta's thoughts change!
fresh hill
and another adjective in his intro
did I get the- okay text client was hung for a bit
midnight depot
Each time she becomes a little bit more disillusioned with him
fresh hill
I do see the one lit torch and Bretta's thoughts changed so clearly the game recognizes that I won
midnight depot
If it's a genuine bug we can just give yay899 the item
midnight depot
And you got the white screen bug again
fresh hill
I think we should manually give yay the item
midnight depot
Sure
fresh hill
probably the item was right there in front of me when I won the first time and I just couldn't pick it up because I couldn't see anything
and it doesn't know to preserve that in case I benchwarp away
(and if there's no second bug, and the item is granted only for beating Zote nine times, then eff that anyway lol)
midnight depot
No, you only need to beat Zote once
Notice (all): Cheat console: sending "Boss Key (Shadow Temple)" to yay899
After beating grey prince zote thrice, Bretta's thoughts become Grey Prince? You seem... smaller? Were you always so tattered and stained...?
fresh hill
lol Hornet 2 didn't even get through my blue masks
midnight depot
The second hornet fight really needed to be harder
fresh hill
when I played this originally I think it was fine
I'm doing everything out of order after all
if I ever find mawlek again that'll be a joke
lol my minions are still trying to kill her during the dialogue
midnight depot
There's a mawlek in the colosseum and another in godhome
fresh hill
I mean the crossroads one
midnight depot
You can dreamnail hornet after defeating her and before talking to her to fill up your soul bar
That's enough for me for now. Goodbye!
fresh hill
Markoth took three tries since he requires a bit more caution and patience than I've been employing on anything else in this run lol
fittingly, I can't leave his arena without benchwarp
@clear summit this would likely allow me to access the final area of my world
all right, I wanna hint the remaining charms
@fierce vale @sage dawn of the 4 charms I'm missing, each of you apparently have 2 of them:
If we find 3 of these 4, I can buy Artik's bow. With 2 of these, I could unlock an optional area in my game.
fresh hill
makes sense
midnight depot
(Shira as you recall is a very late endgame DLC character)
fresh hill
apparently my Void Heart is in Wcct's Salubra shop
Jay also has my King Fragment at "Distant Roost: Shrine 4"
and my Queen Fragment is in my own world
fierce vale
RC is ringed city, can technically go there but its gonna be a tad
ID is irythl dungeon, which i needed tiny doll for last i checked, and didn't see a popup for
i may have missed it though
midnight depot
Since you beat Friede you can get most of Ringed City without fighting any bosses
fresh hill
I see
Wcctnoam Chip Small Doll Grubfather_14
as already found
fierce vale
nvm, i do have small doll
i just checked my items
ye, i can go everywhere, twin demons block old sorcerer i think though
midnight depot
Oh I thought old sorcerer was one of the early base game items
fresh hill
there we go!
sage dawn
I can grab both of mine pretty easily assuming I remember my inventory correctly.
midnight depot
Oh no
fresh hill
Flitter: does this mean I don't need the other two fragments?
midnight depot
You don't need the other fragments to beat the game but you may need them for individual checks
midnight depot
Radiance only cares about the void heart
midnight depot
It's really annoying to open the hive entrance without claw
fresh hill
I'll see if I can find the Hive entrance
found it 
oh no that's the secret entrance to only one isolated room
now I found it
fierce vale
build acquired
midnight depot
Flash sweat is a fun spell
fierce vale
i used it in smouldering lake, i've been avoiding magic since i picked the no reqs option
fierce vale
ty, thats a bottomless home teleport you just picked up
fresh hill
I did not have the health left for hive knight
huh, I thought I had dirtmouth stag already
midnight depot
Getting the "dirtmouth stag" item opens the door
You can teleport there but the lever to open the door is replaced with a random check
The door only opens if you find the item
fresh hill
barely beat Hive Knight
that's one of those fights which is way harder without both slashes/dashes because normally I'd stay on the ground and dash both ways so none of the midair stuff can spawn in my face
lol the grand prize was 10 arrows
midnight depot
Hive knight is one of the press X repeatedly fights but actually has more HP than the easier ones
fresh hill
and I think that's it for the hive
fresh hill
did you want that?
fresh hill
looking at my bench list, other than waterways and palace I'm only missing black egg temple (lol) and Sheo
so I'll try to find Sheo now
Sheo's item sounds cool at least
midnight depot
Opening the door to cornifer also opens a shortcut from Bretta to the waterways
fresh hill
looks like I visited all but one place in the waterways before finding him
that must be where the junk pit is
midnight depot
Yeah!
fresh hill
and yep I now remember finding this locked door when I was in FW
oooh I remember this room now, I turned back when I saw the huge worms that seemed like they expect both dashes to evade
midnight depot
You can desolate dive to get immunity from their charge
Fun trivia: These enemies were added in the Godhome DLC which was supposed to accompany the game's Switch release
But the developers didn't want to make a whole expansion with no new enemies
fresh hill
lol
midnight depot
The expansion turned out to be the biggest one in terms of actual content though
fresh hill
oooh water temple key
lol, none of the three pantheons will open because I'm missing a boss or two in each
wow, I was expecting a fuller list than this by now
anyway that's probably a good stopping point for today
I've now reached every bench in the benchwarp mod except for white palace and godhome roof
basically everything that's left is final and optional bosses
and many of the latter aren't relevant to an archipelago run
oh yeah, and a few areas that I can't reach without the lantern or left dash
that's probably the biggest reason I'm lacking bosses actually
actually, was this the Mawlek room...
midnight depot
In determining your randomizer settings I opted to make every location accessible eventually. This means the playable area will have more potential checks and take longer to finish but I felt you would not like being unable to reach some places
fresh hill
thanks
fierce vale
princes dead, now time for irythl
midnight depot
Nice
fresh hill
I guess False Knight is right here too
ok this one might not be feasible without left dash
he's got too much going on that's all too big to avoid by walking
midnight depot
You can dream nail false knight twice after he falls prone
fresh hill
I did manage to stagger him once and did just that but it wasn't nearly enough soul to make up for failing to avoid every other attack in my general direction
midnight depot
A good strategy would be to come with souls ready, then use desolate dive to avoid hits, and whenever possible stay to the left so you can dash right and look for opportunities to pogo back left
fresh hill
if he was a slower fight I might try stuff like that
but he's big and fast, so it just wouldn't be fun without both dashes
midnight depot
Yeah
fresh hill
the seer is now one with her lämp
that should be all vendors double-checked
even all stag stations double-checked
so all that's left is fighting any bosses and coliseums I feel like, unless I get lantern or left dash or two more charms to unlock a few extra areas
double-checked the tracker to make sure I'm not forgetting any known items people need, but yes it's only the stuff known to have grub/charm gates
actually stopping here for today
weary lagoon
hey thanks for dins fire someone
I can go into the shadow temple now
hey thanks for the bow I can go everywhere now
where was it
Iron boots too
guess I have everything now
fresh hill
sweet, so I'll probably have left dash soon
weary lagoon
that was bongo bongos heart?
fresh hill
Artiks Ixrec Left_Mothwing_Cloak Gerudo Training Ground Near Scarecrow Chest
weary lagoon
ah
fresh hill
as interesting as it is to fight bosses with halfslash/halfdash, I think I've just about hit the limit where that's fun anyway
Radiance phase 1 maybe, definitely not phase 2
midnight depot
You can see all discovered hints for your world in
https://archipelago.gg/tracker/cmwyrv2jSgembMvxGOU6-g
By default it's sorted by finder and only showing uncompleted hints
fresh hill
(if it wasn't clear, that page is what I just copy-pasted from)
midnight depot
Meanwhile, the Archipelago discord server is running a large scale async game with thousands of players
fresh hill
geez, 1300 players
midnight depot
My phone won't load the end of the list
sage dawn
I win
midnight depot
Nice
fresh hill
how is my charm% higher than your token% lol
midnight depot
geez, 1300 players
(each player can claim up to six or ten games, I think. The rules are unclear)
sage dawn
Capped out at 77 tokens
fresh hill
Flitter — Today at 1:33 AM
Realistically you'll finish around 70% unless you're in BK mode for a while and have the time to explore books and crannies
as usual, Flitter is correct
midnight depot
Thanks
weary lagoon
my zelda instinct keep making me collect gold skulltulas even though I know the 50 reward is a geo rock
sorry its an ice trap*
fresh hill
at least that's funny
sage dawn
I wish there was a visual difference in item importance
midnight depot
Like in the game or the log?
sage dawn
In game
fresh hill
it does feel like you could classify nearly everything into "required for progression", "unique but optional" and "fungible currency/treasure" and pick three colors for those
sage dawn
I mean they already do.
The dialogue boxes are distinct based on importance, but they all still look like Zelda's letter
midnight depot
In game it might just be an issue of them using the existing OOT Randomizer scaffolding
fresh hill
although as we've already discovered, weird game-specific rules can lead to almost anything becoming "required for progression" like my random charms would've been had Chip not found Artik's bow elsewhere
oh you get different dialogue?
midnight depot
I wonder what the process of making pull requests to a specific game within archipelago is
sage dawn
fresh hill
my text client does have different colors and tooltips that say they have "item classes" of "progression", "useful" and "normal" which sounds like exactly what I just said
although is a Gold Skulltula Token really "progression"?
midnight depot
it does feel like you could classify nearly everything into "required for progre...
The archipelago system does classify items in these categories and it does so by determining which are critical to progression
fresh hill
oooh thanks Chip
sage dawn
If the rewards are required, yeah
ancient harness
HUGE lantern from Chip
fresh hill
what are the vanilla skulltula rewards? (I don't remember doing that sidequest when I played OoT, but I remember no details anyway)
fierce vale
an important item for ix and wcct in the same pile
ancient harness
100 is the biggest wallet, aside from that I don't remember
sage dawn
Wallet, stone of agony?
midnight depot
The way the system works is the usual randomizer logic. It splits the worlds into paths and traverses them from end to start to ensure each game's end is reachable
sage dawn
No 100 is free 200 rupees every time you talk to him
ancient harness
Is 50 the big wallet?
sage dawn
Yeah giant's wallet might be fifty
Adult wallet is like 10 or 20 right?
I think stone of agony is 30
ancient harness
Might be a heart container in there
sage dawn
The others might be pieces of heart yeah
sage dawn
I did say I was gonna grab that right when I got on lol
fresh hill
wait that puts me at 37 charms, I had something blocked on 37 I think
midnight depot
Apparently the stone of agony straight up does nothing on the Wii version
ancient harness
Huh. I hit some spikes and now the dark room where you usually see a circle around you is fully lightened up
midnight depot
Funny bug
sage dawn
fresh hill
yep, that let me buy the last two items from Sly's shop: one of my grimmkin flames and one of Flitter's Arcane Eggs (lategame treasure)
sage dawn
Oh and for the record item importance works with chest appearance matches contents. It's only freestanding items that have no difference
fresh hill
"Boss_Essence-Galien"? isn't that just more essence?
midnight depot
Arcane eggs are +1 nail damage for me because of mod charms
fresh hill
that also feels miscategorized to me
midnight depot
It is essence.
Essence can be critical to progression as long as an important purchase is locked behind it
fresh hill
well, sure, but so is every currency
ancient harness
Huh. I hit some spikes and now the dark room where you usually see a circle arou...
And apparently it's consistent
fresh hill
that's the logic that classifies literally every item as "progression"
midnight depot
The difference is the amount of essence in the world is fixed and you can't easily grind it.
fresh hill
hm
midnight depot
And apparently it's consistent
Oh, maybe it's a randomizer feature then?
fresh hill
ah well, categories are hard
you've got your egg anyway
I wonder where my last pale ore is
ancient harness
It definitely didn't happen without the lantern
fresh hill
btw, is it just me, or are the individual trackers like https://archipelago.gg/tracker/cmwyrv2jSgembMvxGOU6-g/0/4 missing a lot of items? like most of the charms I hinted for earlier (I still don't see a Wayward_Compass there for instance)
midnight depot
I don't know how the hollow knight tracker works. It says it updates periodically but it doesn't have all items. It has a subset of items?
fresh hill
fresh hill
anyway, I agree my last pale ore is one of the few things left that makes any sense to spend a hint on
all my stuff is tied to the OoT worlds lol
actually this message confuses me, aren't those two different locations?
weary lagoon
yay has dungeon entrances shuffled
fresh hill
oh
sage dawn
It's recording the warp that leads to the area's it's in
midnight depot
Yeah
sage dawn
@midnight depot Is isma's tear super important. I keep fucking up the hover to the item and don't want to do it
midnight depot
It is essential but not right now
fresh hill
it lets you swim in acid which normally is critical to advance, though I think Flitter has workarounds for many of those passages
ancient harness
The secret chest in the Weavers' Den is one of the last secrets I ever learned
midnight depot
I might need it to finish the game but if it's too hard just leave it for later
fresh hill
(I got my Isma's Tear before I got regular swimming, so that was a running joke for a day or two when normal water kept killing me and I'd take a bath in acid afterward)
midnight depot
There's like one or two items that need Isma's tear and I can't actually skip over them
midnight depot
using "at" for both of those meanings probably isn't the best but oh well
Archipelago quality for individual games can vary because core devs usually add games via pull requests from random contributors (after review)
fresh hill
and just getting the games to work this seamlessly is hard enough I understand no one prioritizing UX tweaks
oooh how many grubs does that get me to
Steam's in a bad mood so can't check atm
probably mid 30s though
sage dawn
Okay, epona's song check has to be one of my favorite ice trap locations now
weary lagoon
It's been 3000 years
ancient harness
Damn, if I had the Hive charm this area would be free
ancient harness
Greenpath Stag inside the Hive can't be more opposite ends of the map, and of start and finish of the game
sage dawn
Equip swap is funny
midnight depot
Left claw
ancient harness
Alright, I've finished.
midnight depot
Nice work!
fresh hill
woo thanks yay
I believe that means I get the awoken dream nail I wanted so white palace is an option tomorrow
ancient harness
Should I !release?
midnight depot
If you're done playing
ancient harness
Enjoy
weary lagoon
i got the rumble pack ty
weary lagoon
now im afking waiting for the sun to rise for the fire arrows check
sage dawn
I'm doing shadow without hovers ._.
midnight depot
Why can't you hover?
ancient harness
Use Ascend
sage dawn
I don't have hover boots
midnight depot
Where are hover boots?
sage dawn
No clue
midnight depot
You could hint for them
sage dawn
Yeah but I don't really need them
midnight depot
The process of using hints is the actual reward
sage dawn
Maybe even 15 or 20%
But keep in mind Artiks and I are both playing games with built in hints
midnight depot
That makes sense
I wanted to do every 5% to be safe in case someone was really in a hurry
weary lagoon
yeah but they arent as OP as "tell me where the cruical item is"
midnight depot
You could use hints for "Tell me what's in this box so I know whether to go for it." Instead
sage dawn
That's mostly what OoT hints are yeah
midnight depot
Archipelago does both methods
weary lagoon
theres no way I can get stuck in the water temple in rando right
if I use the keys wrong
sage dawn
Nope. Rando assumes least optimal key usage for logic
weary lagoon
feeling pretty stuck rn
sage dawn
I'm down to see help you go over things and see if you're missing anything
I'm assuming no keysanity right?
weary lagoon
indeed
sage dawn
Randomized skulls or no?
fresh hill
appropriate hint levels are really game-specific... and arguably player-specific
weary lagoon
ohh hold on
fresh hill
some of you have half or more of the game memorized, or are doing skips and glitches I don't know and likely couldn't do if I did know them, which heavily affects reasonable hint configurations
weary lagoon
I just wasnt close enough to the triforce on the wall when I played the lullaby
fresh hill
ultimately it's on us to judge how many hints is the most fun
sage dawn
Okay that is fair. I do have all of OoT memorized and have a pretty big knowledge base of glitches that I can look up setups for
midnight depot
appropriate hint levels are really game-specific... and arguably player-specific
Yeah, I went for 5% to accomodate a reasonable worst case scenario, since there's no way to configure hints per-player.
fresh hill
plus I can't even look up how many hints I used 
that's a bigger issue than setting a limit lol
midnight depot
Just keep looking them up until you run out
sage dawn
I FINALLY FOUND MY BOOMERANG
fresh hill
I mean in general how many you have left would affect what you ask for
anyway, I feel like I used 7-8
and that that's half of what Flitter's setting allowed
sage dawn
Okay, got @clear summit 's map
fresh hill
too bad unbreakable greed doesn't count as an additional charm
midnight depot
Yeah
sage dawn
Also doing shadow temple backwards is always funny
clear summit
ok time to catch up, I'll first rush with Ixrec's item
It's in the stage 1 map, so I can simply reset repeatedly to get it
midnight depot
Hi
If you can get me Monomon I can finish the game early
He is in Abandoned Aqueduct: Shrine 8
clear summit
I will check that too then
fierce vale
i'm missing one cinders of a lord and i don't know which one
weary lagoon
this water temple is so cursed
midnight depot
Shouldn't you be able to put them on the thrones to find out?
midnight depot
The four lords are Lothric Princes, Yhorm the Giant, Abyss Watcher, and Aldrich.
sage dawn
And I immediately got hover boots
fierce vale
i did realise after typing that, now i just need to figure out what the lothric cinders are called
midnight depot
It is Cinders of a Lord - Lothric Prince
fierce vale
apparently i do have all of them
midnight depot
Apparently white palace is not completable without left mantis claw
fierce vale
i was just getting confused because i was standing in the wrong place to use it properly
midnight depot
Happened to me too
fresh hill
oh cool I got World_Sense
midnight depot
How much of the game did you finish?
fierce vale
i got 2 zones to do of the main game, then the final boss, then the last dlc to be done
so i've got a little bit to go yet
clear summit
Gonna disable the equipment randomiser or smth if I play this game with randomizer again, I can equip one equipment only and the game throws me like 20 equipments at the start of the game
And even worse some of them just disappear
midnight depot
Yeah, that makes sense
sage dawn
Risk of rain might be better as a secondary game for someone running multiple
Was thinking Mario 64 would be good for that too
weary lagoon
im not connected properly because I had to soft reset
can I still get items and they will be sent to you next time I connect?
weary lagoon
does to me every time
sage dawn
Oh maybe because I have it bound to a button so I'm not oppening a menu that pauses emulation?
midnight depot
I have no idea, but I would not risk it.
clear summit
Risk of rain might be better as a secondary game for someone running multiple
Yeah, the game can be played only once in a while with bulk progression each time
midnight depot
If you do decide to risk it, I can cheat any items that become impossible to acquire
Ah, I got the left claw!
Thanks
weary lagoon
now you can finally play the game
fresh hill
now Flitter can play regular HK instead of speedrunner HK
midnight depot
The most check-dense area I have remaining is https://i.imgur.com/v33An07.png
Impossible to get up to without either claw
weary lagoon
cleared the whole water temple for that geo hope it was good
fresh hill
midnight depot
And the shade cloak https://i.imgur.com/5B8HAsa.png
midnight depot
cleared the whole water temple for that geo hope it was good
I love geo!
And at the top of crystal peak was Ixrec's legendary rancid egg
If you drop the chandelier after killing six watcher knights it kills a seventh one for you https://i.imgur.com/e2mHWQd.png
fresh hill
lol
ancient harness
lmao
sage dawn
@midnight depot I fucked up east and west. I can't get your acid swimming until I get another botw key
midnight depot
Oh don't worry about it
sage dawn
You get Nailmaster's Glory as a consolation prize
midnight depot
I like nailmaster's glory!
weary lagoon
breath of the wild key?
midnight depot
Hornet, you're too early. https://i.imgur.com/iK3ledT.png
Oh it was an ice trap for yay
sage dawn
thanks
midnight depot
Apparently there is at least one check that requires right mantis claw https://i.imgur.com/o8FR59o.png
Can't be done with left
Finally got Deku shield for Artiks
Time to use the last simple key https://i.imgur.com/FEJEPdj.png
The white defender doesn't want to show up. Is it because I don't have Isma's tear? https://i.imgur.com/UsVlyV0.png
clear summit
got the Lantern for @fresh hill
midnight depot
Ooh, Monomon
clear summit
Got it
sage dawn
Sorry for taking so long to get around to that
clear summit
Nice
midnight depot
sage dawn
@fierce vale
fresh hill
ah, well I'm probably not going for 110%
midnight depot
ah, well I'm probably not going for 110%
I got 110% only because the extra mod charms give 1% each
Actual number is 96%
sage dawn
Okay, I think I'm in bk mode until I get light arrows, 1-2 botw keys, a forest key, or spirit boss key.
Miscounted the number of locked doors in forest so I didn't do the small key skip :c
ancient harness
Still can't believe in 1998 they managed to put the entire of botw in Ocarina of Time
clear summit
They didn't, instead they have Ocarina of Time
midnight depot
Hmm, I only have 8 checks left on the map but 35 in the tracker
midnight depot
Nice work!
midnight depot
Oh it counts path of pain soul totems
clear summit
Oh I didn't !collect
midnight depot
You don't need to do that
Doing !collect takes items in other people's worlds and sends them to you
midnight depot
Hmm
Technically doable, but can I do it?
It was pretty tricky! I ended up doing it a different way
midnight depot
I guess 98% is as good as it gets. The one check I can't get is the white palace which requires right mantis claw
Today I learned of an archipelago slang word: dipping, wherein you enter someone else's world using their name, get the one item you really wanted them to get, and leave
fresh hill
lol
fierce vale
time for the final push of the main game, then the last dlc
also shout outs to jay for the grass crest shield
still no chloranthy ring though
i now have the funny goal completed tick, this would have been much shorter if i didn't have the 2 dlcs and it would have also involved like a day of bk mode
there was no reason to murder my npcs
fierce vale
the chloranthy 3 wasn't randomised some reason, i don't think any of dlc2 +3 rings are
letsgo
weary lagoon
this is a certified mane classic
fierce vale
third tried midir
fierce vale
and without my run is done
i'm just gonna release the rest since i can't be bothered to run around picking up like 2 items on every map
fresh hill
iirc my lantern, left dash and a few charms were found yesterday so I should be able to wrap up everything today
and my last pale ore!
and the love key
and every charm, wow thanks
ah the shopkeeper's key still unlocks a new pile of shop items
welp artiks you finally have your mirror shield and bow (upgrade)
and 5 deku nuts