Hollow Knight/Silksong

[primal hedge]

I do not

[elfin kettle]

If you press down the right stick

As in, R3

[primal hedge]

ok

[versed wagon]

I can't help you on controller. I pressed the button once on accident, then tried it a bunch and forgot

[elfin kettle]

She does a move that uses a bit of silk and it's essentially a taunt

[versed wagon]

I found no NPC interactions or anything, looks like it's just for aura

[burnt perch]

TIL about taunt

Kurama!!

So funny I talk about the wanderer crest and then find the chapel in 5 min...

[versed wagon]

Apparently Beast also changes it, and you can use it to call the doggo too, and start the bosses that have the Challenge trigger

You found the chapel ages ago

[burnt perch]

did I

I just walked into bone bottom and a boss spawned...

[versed wagon]

Yeah that whole place left of bone bottom is the chapel

Even though the door blocks half of it

It's good to know because sometimes you're told to return to The Chapel

[burnt perch]

I did the boss with wanderer and it is kinda sick...

[elfin kettle]

The only negative is the range kind of sucks

And again only one red tool but if you don't use them much it's not really a negative

[versed wagon]

||Longclaw|| is such a late get, too

And it's not a quick wish

[primal hedge]

it's weird, I struggle to notice the effect of long nail/claw in any single swing of the weapon, but over time I can tell it's helping in some really vague sense

[versed wagon]

I noticed it when I first equipped it for sure. I was using reaper at the time, I do think it's less noticeable with Hunter

But since it's never comes off it was hard to say. I definitely noticed its absence when playing again

I just try Beast with it, maybe it gets the biggest boost, it wouldn't surprise me

[elfin kettle]

I just keep it on because 65% of the enemies in this game are primal aspids

And I need all the help I can get

[burnt perch]

If any of you have broken the Hornet Statuette Im leaving this server

[primal hedge]

gotta love the double mega driznit fight

[elfin kettle]

Still there

[primal hedge]

as in that's one of the ones you're stuck on?

[elfin kettle]

No I have the statuette

[primal hedge]

oh

[versed wagon]

Don't know of anyone that's broken it

Not even in a Silkpost

[primal hedge]

I also kept the pristine heart

[elfin kettle]

The fights I'm working on right now are the ||Karmelita||, ||Trobbio redux|| and now the asshole on top of the ||coral thing||

Oh right the ||prince in the dream thingy||

[primal hedge]

aaaaah

[elfin kettle]

Basically everything to get to the actual end, haven't had as much time to play and you kinda need a good chunk of time to actually learn one of these bosses

[primal hedge]

fwiw, there is one more of those you can go look for, ||Trobbio's completely optional||, but then yeah gotta win some of those

oh duh that's the part where they literally mark it on the map of course you know that

[elfin kettle]

I spent a bunch of time convinced that the ||delivery to the mask maker would have given me a mask shard, and then it didn't, so I still lack one fragment||

The other one I killed

[versed wagon]

Pristine cog core?

[versed wagon]

|| Karmelita || my beloved. Top 3 of fights easy

[primal hedge]

same

||also the prettiest? ||

[versed wagon]

|| Trobbio 2: purple boogaloo is basically the same fight as Trobbio 1, don't let him fool you with the stage lights ||

[elfin kettle]

It's good but it's also the one I went "fuck no, this seems like a nightmare" so I just tried her once

Of the ||3 "dreamers" of act 3 she seems the most difficult by far||

[versed wagon]

You got Grimmed

[burnt perch]

Thiefs mark

[primal hedge]

act 3 boss: ||I love that Trobbio is so flamboyant even his idea of edginess is purple instead of black||
plus ||the absurdly overdramatic way he "dies" at the end of the fight||, just 10/10 sidequest

[versed wagon]

Come back to me on that one after you meet Nyleth

[elfin kettle]

Killed that one already

[versed wagon]

10/10 agreed

[elfin kettle]

Admittedly, by tool spam a lot

[versed wagon]

What else can you do?

|| I consider it the only bad boss and game design in the game. There's no challenge or puzzle in beating/figuring out a boss that nullifies 90% of your inventory. ||

|| "Okay time to equip the 3 things I can use from the other side of the screen "||

This is also why railgun silkshot is the best silkshot, btw

[mortal yarrow]

use delvers drill teehee

[burnt perch]

Only 2 yellow slots on reaper this game SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

and compass and magnet are mandatory

[versed wagon]

Never had to get close to it with silkshot and whatever other red tool I used

[mortal yarrow]

it's not a mandatory boss so i have less of an issue with it, though the way out of doing it is a little hidden

[versed wagon]

I even forgot to equip the yellow tool to stick to walls. Silkshot is the best herbicide in the game

[mortal yarrow]

||karmelita|| kicked my ass though

[versed wagon]

It is mandatory

For Act 3 at least

[primal hedge]

I still like it since even if the overall approach is obvious, I still need to actually execute it and that takes skill and practice in the usual satisfying sense, and figuring out which tools those were still involved a little experimentation

[mortal yarrow]

||you can do verdania instead||

[versed wagon]

||I guess that option is there, but to use it to skip Nyleth instead of Coral or Karmelita feels like a misuse ||

||I just ignored everything about the prince in the second playthrough, since there's nothing for 100% in there||

[burnt perch]

anyone else in the sands of karak rn

[primal hedge]

I left a younger, weaker me behind there many moons ago

[elfin kettle]

I guess I am

[primal hedge]

though unironically I'm glad I found and did karak with the bare minimum movement it requires

[versed wagon]

A part of me is still below those sands

Yeah Karak without DJ was challenging in a fun way

[primal hedge]

even clawline lets you kinda skip a lot of it

[versed wagon]

Clawline is necessary

Can't get to SoK without it

The other two entrances open from the inside

[primal hedge]

wow what was I thinking of

[versed wagon]

Incidentally, || I knocked down two or three of the giant drills before I realised they opened shortcuts ||

I just hit them to hit them

[burnt perch]

yeah this shit must be crazy without dj

[versed wagon]

I love the trees tho, mechanically speaking

[primal hedge]

oh now I remember, that was before I understood ||silk regeneration and what that means for clawline timing, also I had fewer silk hearts back then||

[versed wagon]

Same I don't know when that clicked for me, but I definitely had a period of not know why something wouldn't work when I expected it to

Compounded with the down-float "bug", it was frustrating

I still would rather have a way to choose whether I DJ or I float

[elfin kettle]

Yeah when I'm going platforming I always use the extra silk regeneration thing

[burnt perch]

i only have one silk heart

[elfin kettle]

Actually now I use it for combat too, since it gives me the 4th pip that allows me to always have the silk skill available

[versed wagon]

Yeah thet regen blue tool is a staple for me until I get the tool in High Halls

[primal hedge]

by the time I understood what that meant I had other favorites

[versed wagon]

Well longclaw and injector can't be taken off, but there's fierce competition in blue for sure

[burnt perch]

can I get longclaw now?

[elfin kettle]

I don't use injector most of the time

[versed wagon]

Absolutely

[burnt perch]

where bro

[versed wagon]

You're gonna want to beat Bilewater's boss, then go up

[elfin kettle]

I think you don't have to beat it

[versed wagon]

They really put Longclaw at the end of hell

[elfin kettle]

You can go around, I don't remember how though

[versed wagon]

Oh right, you can ge there through Putrefied Ducts

With DJ you can get to Memorium so yeah you can go get Longclaw

PSA tho: you need to use red tools to clear Longclaw's wish

[elfin kettle]

Actually it's much better to do the Bilewater boss later because you get a very useful tool for bilewater in the Putrefied Ducts.

[burnt perch]

I dont know any of these names...

[versed wagon]

Your route is Memorium which connect to Putrefied Ducts which has one NPC in a shack that gives you the wish that rewards Longclaw

So search for that first one and the rest will follow

[elfin kettle]

Act 3 bullshit ||is that NPC anywhere in Act 3 BTW?||

[burnt perch]

Ok I will find Memorium soon im sure

[versed wagon]

|| idk, I went to check on her and she was dead, but that's because her eggs had hatched, which I don't know if they do unless you do her wish ||

But I doubt it's missable anyway. Even if the boomerang guy dies you can find the boomerang elsewhere

[elfin kettle]

Ok so, ||Crust down, ony Karmelita left...||
Damn that sounds like a terrible time

[versed wagon]

I really don't know of anything critical that you can be locked out of, nothing that counts for 100% at least

[burnt perch]

im gonna take a break now but the platforming in this area is awesomesauce

I just did the part where you go from bottom up

[versed wagon]

You're about to learn a new trick in the next section

[burnt perch]

btw I tried the tool today that makes you go spider-mode..

crazy...

[elfin kettle]

You can even go up walls with it

[burnt perch]

yurp

[versed wagon]

It's so funny

It is definitely better than the HK's slug charm tho

[burnt perch]

the one that lets you move while healing?

[versed wagon]

Yeah

I said better but I mean I like it more aesthetically. Better execution of what to me is the same concept

[burnt perch]

have you found a real use for spider mode

[elfin kettle]

IDK I kinda love that the slug one makes you become a snail if you have the baldur shell on

Also it makes you zoom if you have the fast healing charm

[versed wagon]

Nope, it's just fun

[primal hedge]

Ixrec — 8/19/25, 23:41
(one detail I always loved: in Bo you heal by drinking tea, so Bo's equivalent of the Shape of Unn charm for mobile healing is that the tea table gets wheels )

[versed wagon]

Though it does change your no-direction dash from forward to backwards, I think

[elfin kettle]

lol

[versed wagon]

From the one time I tried it

That's pretty good

[primal hedge]

like a Castlevania backstep?

[versed wagon]

If you're playing the "stand still and react" kinda way, it's better for you

[elfin kettle]

I feel like we'll see some insane shit from that tool when we get a godhome equivalent

Insane ways to avoid attacks by ducking with it

You know there is one guy on this planet that decided to make their life mission to find all the attacks you can skirt with that thing

[versed wagon]

There's a lot of stuff and combinations I'd like to try but in 100% everything is dead

We really need Pantheon

I guess there's revert...

But the point stands

[mortal yarrow]

slightly faster than base dash, at least at the start of the scuttle, and im pretty sure it lowers your hitbox so certain attacks will miss you at max range

[granite kindle]

If you use wander and druids eyes with weighted bolt, and quick heal your can just face tank her.

After being stuck for 4 and half days I just said screw it.

[elfin kettle]

Tomorrow I will start trying, if I get annoyed too much I will keep that start in mind

[versed wagon]

lmao

Here's my recommendation

[elfin kettle]

I am at 95% completion outside of that because I am doing everything except her

[granite kindle]

I’m at 89% with 68 hours and 32 mins of play time

[versed wagon]

PSA: you'll need every locket and every slot unlocked for 100%

[granite kindle]

Early game I played it like hollow knight was more aggressive and caused a lot of deaths. I’ve been exploring every inch possible

[elfin kettle]

I think I am at like 80 something because I gave the whole map another pass to lick every wall for a bit

I found all lockets

[granite kindle]

That’s where about 3-5 of my hours came from.

I’m missing 2. Because my beast crest needs them

[elfin kettle]

The two things that elude me is half a spool and 1/4th of a mask, one must be ||somewhere on the mount as the pinstress told me there is a secret somewhere there, and I assume it isn't the big birb ||

[versed wagon]

To my understanding, 100% is: every needle upgrade, every silk skill, every tool of every colour (but tool upgrades don't count), every crest with full slots open, every mask shard, every spool fragment, every silk heart, every movement upgrade, the one and only needle art

You'll need every flea too but that's because they reward some of that stuff. Same for some wishes rewards, but not all wishes are necessary

[elfin kettle]

I lack 2 tools, but I have a couple of quests open so something might come from one of them

And there are a couple of areas I didn't wall lick yet

[versed wagon]

Other amusing things: only three of the four simple keys are required for 100%, and I don't think buying the maps count

[primal hedge]

you're either far more patient or far more skilled at wall licking than I

[elfin kettle]

If I end up with everything except one thing I will look it up

I am not that much of a masochist

[versed wagon]

I do love that the stuff that doesn't count for 100%, you can still track and see exactly what you have and what you're missing

The 112% in HK could make things confusing

[primal hedge]

yeah, people are gonna invent whole new completion categories around those I'm sure

[granite kindle]

Fun Easter egg if you refuse to buy the quil until before/after fighting depending on what side you come from ||trabbio you can take his red quill and it has its own icon in the menu||

[versed wagon]

Some of those would take a run to Act 3, like All Relics for example

But I do wonder what special runs could be done in a reasonable amount of time.

Pretty sure All Cylinders can be done in Act 2

Journal is Act 3

[primal hedge]

I think cylinders was the one thing I managed entirely on my own

[versed wagon]

All Relics, the one that's || above Bone Marrow|| I have no idea how someone find that on their own

[primal hedge]

lockets I sort of did, but I think a few of those were in areas where I needed to be pointed at the whole area before I found stuff in it

[versed wagon]

And trust me, I went up and down The Hole many times

[granite kindle]

I need a guide for about 5 mask shards.

[versed wagon]

5 mask shards are completely locked within Act 3, if you're not there don't worry about it

I think I didn't need guides for spools or shards, I licked the walls pretty well on that, but I absolutely passed many "hidden" tools

Like the one in Bilewater

But I guess Bilewater is the one place where you're not thorough, on a 1st playthrough

[primal hedge]

I think I know the bilewater tool you mean, I found that on a revisit where I was trying to find one of those secret passages but instead found only the tool

[versed wagon]

I was disappointed in its function but I guess it would be broken if it worked for free

[elfin kettle]

4 are since I had 9 hp before entering act 3

[mortal yarrow]

not all of them, though i don't know the actual number for ||sylphsong||

i just know i was still getting memory lockets after hitting 100%

[versed wagon]

Maybe there's extras

[burnt perch]

wtf

[primal hedge]

hm

[burnt perch]

the raging conchfly is the hardest boss in the game?

[mortal yarrow]

nah, there's exactly enough to get all slots

[primal hedge]

So I'm fairly confident that ||she wouldn't give me sylphsong until I unlocked every tool slot in every crest. I definitely tried asking her with all crests and most slots unlocked, then unlocked the last few.||

and I also remember having zero lockets left over at the end

so something about this is not adding up

[versed wagon]

I just know I couldn't get || Sylphsong || after getting || the second hunter upgrade|| so I had to go hunt for more lockets

I only had 7 unopened slots, I didn't go back until I did all 7 to be fair

[primal hedge]

I think I had 2 unopened on my last failed attempt

[versed wagon]

But if you don't need all of them you need 90%

I went through this just yesterday

[primal hedge]

okay so nahvec is outvoted

[mortal yarrow]

4th key might be worthwhile for steel soul just to avoid seth, any boss you can skip would be helpful ||assuming memories don't count for actual deaths||

[versed wagon]

Oh right, Seth is the real final boss

[mortal yarrow]

true haha

[versed wagon]

You know what, I forgive you Nyleth

[primal hedge]

||okay I saw a lot of you joke about that but I thought that was referring to Seth's minigame scores? the actual boss fight I did with him is no big deal||

[versed wagon]

Considering the two together, no notes

[granite kindle]

I had trouble fighting Seth at first because of the music. Wasn’t expecting the somber song

[versed wagon]

Both honestly

[granite kindle]

Took me about 10-15 tries. Mainly 2nd phase had most of my deaths.

[versed wagon]

On the second 100%, I struggled with him the most

Maybe it was a bad day

[primal hedge]

must've been, that is not a hard fight compared to the other act 3 bosses

I feel like it took me 3-5 tries?

[burnt perch]

they need to nerf this boss

[mortal yarrow]

yeah it was referring to that, but ||being able to skip a real fight means its an avoidable risk||

[primal hedge]

yeah I wasn't questioning that part

[mortal yarrow]

nodnods!

[versed wagon]

Is this one conchfly or two?

[primal hedge]

granted I will question if ||doing all of Verdania is significantly safer than doing Seth and Nyleth?||

maybe for some players, I think for me those are roughly similar

[mortal yarrow]

again, this is assuming ||memory deaths don't count||

[primal hedge]

oh

[versed wagon]

The boss certainly is, in || Verdania. But the gauntlet is criminally hard in there||

[granite kindle]

Most of my deaths were the last judge when the worms did 2 masks,groal and skarsinnger.

[mortal yarrow]

which would be a HUGE relief for the steel soul 100%

[versed wagon]

Damn, I gotta verify that from someone before I go for Steel Soul

[primal hedge]

true, if for some reason you feel compelled to hurt yourself with steel soul, then "free" dream fights are clearly a big factor in routing

[versed wagon]

||Surely they don't count ||

[primal hedge]

what's the earliest one you can even get to...

are they all locked behind act 3's ||elegy||?

[versed wagon]

First Sinner

[mortal yarrow]

im going to be backing up my save and check just to be damn sure, when i get a file there

[versed wagon]

|| since with first sinner you respawn at the door, I think it's a dream fight ||

[primal hedge]

tbh I'm not sure if First Sinner counts because ||although dying there doesn't send you back to the bench, it still consumes your tools, and there's none of the usual dream-entering visuals||

[mortal yarrow]

yeah, first sinner is an odd case

[versed wagon]

|| if not, yeah act 3, and the easiest to get to is Karmelita. Short gauntlet, easy run||

[primal hedge]

whether FS deaths counts for steel soul is definitely a question worth getting an answer to, but I don't think we can assume it's the same as the others

[granite kindle]

I still need to go back and beat hollow knight on steel soul. My last attempt was about 5 months ago and died to a poorly timed shadow dash against radiance

[versed wagon]

I'll find out on my own if nobody has.

But I'll make backup files in case they do count

Current run is just before Widow

[primal hedge]

oh right we can just copy the saves

[granite kindle]

Not on Xbox. Unless I don’t know how

[primal hedge]

I know console games tend to be completely impractical to mod, I dunno if they give you any access to filesystem operations

[burnt perch]

No way I did all that for a red tool man

[versed wagon]

But consider this:

You're the aspid now

[primal hedge]

the aspid jokes never get old

there's even an important aspid pogo skip in the speedruns

[elfin kettle]

I mean they write themselves

It's not our fault that TC really took the most hated enemy in the game and went "ok we had something good here, how can we iterate on this"

[versed wagon]

There's coral aspid, there's drill aspid, there's explosion aspid, there's bouncy ball aspid

[versed wagon]

There's boss aspid, there's half-boss aspid

[primal hedge]

I'm not even sure what all of those are

[burnt perch]

mysterious platform above

[versed wagon]

I don't recognise that platform

Is it inside the building you got the red tool?

[primal hedge]

oh, that's outside the coral tower, I remember running around here now

[primal hedge]

afaik there's nothing else outside

[burnt perch]

above it

[versed wagon]

Ah, I did check out the ceiling there but I didn't find that

Maybe for the DLC

[primal hedge]

if the question is "there must be something else here besides the bench and tool"

the answer is ||yes but not for a long while yet||

[burnt perch]

at least there was an oil ingredient here

[versed wagon]

Yeah

[burnt perch]

so im missing the couriers rasher and pickled muckmaggot

[versed wagon]

SoK my beloved

[elfin kettle]

Good luck for the courier

[versed wagon]

It makes you work for everything in there but it's a good workout

[primal hedge]

the area feels so much bigger than it is on the map

[versed wagon]

I can tell you with DJ muckmaggot is available to you, it's the only one that requires it for sure. It's in || Sinners Road||

[primal hedge]

and rasher is no longer painfully hard with DJ and clawline

[versed wagon]

But there's no helping you with the rashers, you have to earn that oil yourself

[burnt perch]

right i remember a place there where i needed dj

[primal hedge]

I remember from my testing that rasher should be possible with only act 1 movement, just not worth the effort to do such a long path with zero mistakes

[versed wagon]

Without clawline? Yeah I think it's not required

But saves a lot of time for sure

[primal hedge]

tbh I think the difficulty saved is even more impactful

[versed wagon]

Alternatively, I wonder what the east route is like. I did that for Songclave delivery and it was smooth, but I was far more apt at the game by then

[primal hedge]

doing the whole route hitless became not even hard with that

oh right I never did songclave since that seemed like one of the repeatable ones with no lore or reward to it

[versed wagon]

I wanted to do the Fleatopia one after Songclave but when I went back my options were Camp and Songclave, I didn't want to redo one

You definitely have to pre-clear || the tumors|| tho

[elfin kettle]

Worth mentioning if you are having a miserable time, a lot of enemies stay dead if you don't reast at the bech so you can use that to clean some of the most annoying ones before the run

[versed wagon]

Yeah but if I fail the delivery I'm quitsaving back to Bellhart

[burnt perch]

I died to chef Luigi

[elfin kettle]

Fair

[primal hedge]

||imagine doing rasher east route without pre-clearing Mist||

[versed wagon]

I didn't try || the puppies|| tho, I wonder if that resets

[burnt perch]

how much dmg did his belly slam just hit me for...

[versed wagon]

I don't think you have time to beat Phantom, boss

[primal hedge]

probably

[versed wagon]

Could be one of the enemies that does 3 masks on contact damage

I know he does mostly 2, if not exclusively

He can certainly take you down fast

[primal hedge]

I don't actually remember what does 3 damage, except for the silk-stealing guy's charge attack (which seems fair given how long it takes to set up)

[versed wagon]

I fought him at 7 or 8 masks, Chef is no joke. He'll cook your ass

And they had no right to give him worms

[primal hedge]

he got all the poison caltrops that were coming to him

[versed wagon]

I think I could tolerate a tool-less fight against him. It's really a lot of the flying enemies that make the strongest argument in favour of tools

[primal hedge]

there's probably a lot of bosses I would happily try toolless if I could see a health bar

[versed wagon]

It's no surprise almost all of them are ranged and thrown

Drill and buzzsaw are kinda the outliers

[primal hedge]

part of me is still half-expecting there to be ||a secret 4th ending where you score 1 million in Flea Bounce and Mooshka tells you how to build a Dream Nail in a hidden room in one of the Weavernests and if you use it on grandma during the Lost Lace fight you get to do the ultra-secret Absolute VoidSilk fight and this time The Knight shows up to help with phase 3|| or whatever

[elfin kettle]

I am really curious to learn what they have in store for DLCs

I kind of hope this time we get areas to explore and not only new tools/boss fights

We'll probably learn something in a year or so at best though, no rush

[mortal yarrow]

new areas would be so nice

i already thought the game just kept going and going, i want new players to be absolutely blindsided by how big the full map is, moreso than now

[granite kindle]

I know I’m late but if you can kill everything before picking it up and don’t rest at a bench all the big enemies should still be gone. The small ones will come back. I believe any enemy that can drop rosearis won’t respawn

[mortal yarrow]

https://youtu.be/OgLKX-QV6uI?si=Waf8HIV9pvSV_pz1

[mortal yarrow]

his name is ass jim

[burnt perch]

Chef Luigi was pretty easy after a few tries

now im only missing the escort

and I think im better at overworld traversal than bosses

so whats the route... this looks pretty far..

[burnt perch]

I got to the grand gate on my first try and ran out of time cause I didnt know the way

[versed wagon]

This is what I do more or less

[burnt perch]

Ye I did that

Just cleared every enemy time for attempt 2

accidentally ran into the elevator in Shellwood. See you on attempt 3

Wait i thought dmg broke it but you just lose some time

How do I reset this shit lol

[versed wagon]

If you don't get hit you have like 1 bar and a half of clearance

So don't worry too much about losing some time.

That said, it hurts that bonking a wall costs a chunk of the timer

[versed wagon]

I'd just quit to menu and reload at Bellhart bench, if you want to clear monsters you're fucked

Also, do you have the yellow tool that makes dashing faster?

[burnt perch]

no

I got it with almost 2 bars left after getting hit by a sawblade

[versed wagon]

Needolin found crying in the corner

[burnt perch]

?

[versed wagon]

More lenient than I remember

[burnt perch]

I just played the needolin for the big guy and his mate before I read that

are the other delivery missions worth

[versed wagon]

There's one for a wish in Act 3, don't remember what the reward is.

All other deliveries are for rosaries

The one ot Bone Bottom is fast as fuck, you just drop down The Hole

I wonder if there's a way to avoid the Skull Tyrant hitting Bone Bottom, or if it's a guarantee trigger

[burnt perch]

that happened to me when I got wanderer

[versed wagon]

I don't know what's the trigger, but since it can happen after the Skull Tyrant wish, it's not the same one

[burnt perch]

NEEDLE SHARPENED

no greater feeling in this gaameee

[versed wagon]

Congrats, you're at max damage for Act 2

[burnt perch]

probably still a ton to do before finally doing the songs...

[versed wagon]

Almost all of it. I went into Act 3 at 89% the other day and I had missed a couple things that were available in Act 2

You can definitely get all the spools, and up to 8 and 3/4ths in masks

[burnt perch]

so act 3 is just a wee lil ending

[versed wagon]

There's a lot in Act 3 but little for the 100% stuff

Act 2 is for sure the longest part of the game, it's hard for me to measure how long Act 1 really was but I feel Act 3 is between the two

[burnt perch]

cant you do a shit ton in act 1 before going to the citadel technically

Act 1 is long i think

[versed wagon]

There's a lot you can do without going past TLJ or Phantom

Let me take a look

[burnt perch]

the last jedi..

its gonna be funny going back to the high halls gauntlet after getting two needle upgrades..

and dj

[versed wagon]

I read Garmond and Zaza can help with that fight, but you probably have to encounter them a few times before they show up up there

[burnt perch]

ive met the guy riding a poodle several times now after being there

[versed wagon]

Let's see, Act 1 only. Well, you can't get needle upgrades. You can get 1 mask, 2 I don't think so but no more for sure. You can get Reaper, Beast and Wanderer. I'd say 2 for sure and maybe 3 spool upgrades (6 halves). Memory lockets probably between 6 and 8.

Silk Skills you can get the basic one, thread storm and sharp dart. And for movement, only dash and mantis claw

[burnt perch]

You can get one needle upgrade actually 🥸

[versed wagon]

Right the free one

[burnt perch]

I dont have sharp dart yet

[versed wagon]

Some decent red tools like boomerang and the needle cluster, for blue ones nothing good but better than nothing. The protective charms, the silk regen one

That's about it. Act 1, I'd say 10-15% of the stuff/content, Act 2 an easy 60% if not more. Act 3 the remainder

[versed wagon]

You need to open more doors

[burnt perch]

i havent used any simple keys yet

I think I have 2 now but before that every door I ran into I had none

im watching the video nahvec linked now

I need this faster dash

looks like he has some tool that buffs his needle..

thats my kind of tool..

i love how he is this good at the game and still has to pause to check the citadel map

[versed wagon]

Three playthroughs in and i still do

The faster dash tool is behind a needolin door. There's no tool that buffs needle but maybe you're seeing the effect of long claw

Or it's the final oil upgrade

[burnt perch]

just look at the last judge fight in the vid above

[versed wagon]

Ah, that's the red tool giving him fire effect on the needle

There's also a blue tool for electric effect on silk skills. Though I don't know how much damage they add and if it's worth it, nor the details of the effects beyond damage if there's any

[versed wagon]

oml

I logged out in un-liberated Bellhart's bench and this is what welcomed me when I loaded the file

[burnt perch]

thats so cool...

ive never seen that

what are you doing on your current file

[versed wagon]

Steelsoul

[burnt perch]

REAL Steelsoul or quit out every time you hit 1 mask Fraudsoul

[versed wagon]

Fraudsoul

[burnt perch]

I guess playing every boss with 2 less masks is a challenge as well

[versed wagon]

But now that I have Critical Mask I just run away when it breaks

[burnt perch]

idk what that is

[versed wagon]

It's a blue tool, it makes your last mask take two hits, kinda. First the mask has to break, then you can lose your last hp. If you're a 2HP or 1HP, no matter how much damage you take, the mask breaks and you're put at 1HP

You get it from the Ants Land store, so it's fairly early game

Great for Steel Soul

Current setup

The crests I'd most want to use in Steelsoul are all lategame...

First Steelsoul only tool

First-tried Sister Splinter

First-tried Widow

The greatest feeling in the game: needle upgrade

I'm glad that for the tracking wishes, you can just go to the last location if you know it. They could've made that annoying but they didn't

[versed wagon]

Oooh, a Steelsoul exclusive wish, I wonder what the reward will be

[burnt perch]

steel...

[versed wagon]

Lol. Styx is dead, but there's another NPC in her room called Skynx, she gives rosaries for silkeaters

[granite kindle]

I was wondering why I was missing the encrusted heart I know I beat the boss. I never picked up the dang heart. Lol

[granite kindle]

So jiji of silksong

[versed wagon]

Yeah there is a delay between getting out of that dream and the heart dropping

[granite kindle]

Still on my first play through might do another one before attempting steel soul.

I have a feeling some of my early steel soul runs will end at the last judge. As he was my first major road block. Up until then I was playing rather aggressively and not as passively I am now

First play through time rn. 68 hrs 49 mins

[versed wagon]

The greatest tool in Steelsoul

[granite kindle]

Rn I’m currently redoing my hollow knight steel soul run. Made it to radiance and died due to a mistimed shadow dash.

[burnt perch]

idk the cheat death one seemed pretty strong..

[granite kindle]

20 mins to get to green path. Not bad but could’ve been faster

[versed wagon]

Well it's just a loud "If you take another hit, you'll die" warning

You can easily not notice you're on the last hit

Specially since 2 masks don't give any visual cue like 1HP does

[elfin kettle]

I started abusing the OD for this shit so much, maybe I should try this on ||Karmelita||

[burnt perch]

yeah so you can just pause instantly every time it procs

[versed wagon]

Yeah

[burnt perch]

My Steelsoul in Hollow Knight didnt have any fradulent quitting but the game is a little easier.......

a little....

[versed wagon]

Unfraudelent Steelsoul Silksong is for gods

Listen I'm first-trying most bosses in Act 1

It's exploration that's treacherous

[burnt perch]

I still wake up in the middle of the night to my Watcher Knights Steelsoul kill with 1 mask left...............

[versed wagon]

Maybe I should've kept a counter of quitting to menu, tho

Anything before Dash I'd just start a new file, that's for sure. Since then...

I think 1 or 2 for Moorwing, one for Savage Beastfly in Beast crest temple

[elfin kettle]

I officially ran out of excuses to avoid that fight

[burnt perch]

genryu how many hours are you on

im just wondering how long true ending playthroughs take

im on 23h now I think

[versed wagon]

Wait you're 99%? What are you missing?

[elfin kettle]

The ending

I assume

[versed wagon]

No, 100% only counts item/inventory stuff

[elfin kettle]

No shot

[versed wagon]

Let me know if you're at 100% after you go back with all three thingies

Did you get every locket (open every slot)?

[elfin kettle]

I am like at 90 hours but like, I was stuck at some fights for days

And refused to move on to get upgrades

[burnt perch]

Ah like Chef Luigi

[elfin kettle]

Because I'm stubborn

[primal hedge]

ftr my first true ending at 92% was 56:19 (definitely could've done it sooner), and my 100% was 59:23

[versed wagon]

My first file is 65h38m, my 100% achievement one is 17h31m

[elfin kettle]

ALso did a lot of wall licking, I had to look up a mask shard and halfa spool though

Because I was getting desperate

[primal hedge]

granted if I had more patience for wall licking it probably would've been another 20 hours to find the plot-critical stuff that had no hints pointing to it

[versed wagon]

Okay. Act 1, I'm pretty sure I have nothing left to do except TLJ or Phantom. This is what I have

[elfin kettle]

Oh I also looked up the area of one tool

[versed wagon]

My only unfinished wishes are Journal and the Steelsoul one, which has an objective in Act 2. I'm gonna see if I can hit 100 entries in Act 1 only

I need 18 more bugs

[elfin kettle]

Oh maybe the journal is 1%?

[primal hedge]

the journal is not part of 100%

I have not completed the journal

[elfin kettle]

Then it has to be th ending

[versed wagon]

I really doubt it's 100 journal entries in Act 1 is possible

[primal hedge]

we also know it's not the ending, I tested that when I was doing my last few %s

[versed wagon]

Did you beat Karmelita?

[elfin kettle]

No

Maybe she is that?

[versed wagon]

Okay, after you complete this objective and go back, let me know if you hit 100%

[primal hedge]

that could be it

[versed wagon]

|| It's either flower or the second song ||

[versed wagon]

I even got the sand worms and the water worms

omg I can reach Wisp Thicket in Act 1?!

No, nvm

[elfin kettle]

Ok actually I think she is not gonna be that bad, this cheese is extremely disgusting though

Ok no, I'll go in with a normal build, spec my tools to handle the small gauntlet before it and try to learn the fight

And go with the cheese when I think I at least had some fun that way

What I tried was goin in with archect blue vial caltrops and buzzsaws and like, that looked nasty for her, I died but I knew I was doing so much damage

I wish there wasn't the little gauntle before her, it's annoying but her fight seems very fun

[versed wagon]

I don't think Nuu's quest in Act 1 only is possible

[elfin kettle]

Ok no, she is so fun to fight blade alone, she has very clear tells for all her attacks, this has to be how I'm doing this now

I can already tell this is probably the best boss in the game and I fought her twice

[versed wagon]

I bring tools in there but I don't know that I use them

It's just a boss worth fighting down to basics

[burnt perch]

like Chef Luigi

[elfin kettle]

I mean if you have seen my cheese run you'd have been horrified

[primal hedge]

I used some tools for the final phase but not in a cheesy "not even doing the fight" way, just to mitigate sponginess while fleeing for my life

[elfin kettle]

I was horrified

[versed wagon]

87/100, I even killed the big guy in the Womrways tunnel

The Mist's banshees could add 1 entry, but I think that's it

[burnt perch]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-hornet-silksong-hollow-knight-silksong-pharloom-gif-11339581464096100828

[versed wagon]

No bro

[elfin kettle]

Nuu is fucking scary

The Hunter was physically intimidating in HK, she is just a psycho which is much scarier.

[versed wagon]

First tried Phantom. They really are so much easier than TLJ

[primal hedge]

especially the approach

[versed wagon]

And now with Cross Stitch I am invincible

[burnt perch]

when do you get the act 2 screen when you go that way

[versed wagon]

You go up the elevator, come out on the station, and when you leave to the left you get Lace and the Citadel intro and Act 2

Still the sickest line from Hornet in the game

[primal hedge]

what did Gruz Mother do to deserve that

[versed wagon]

Semi-related, I'm at 90/100 for Nuu's quest after The Mist, a surprise little flying enemy in the Organ, and Phantom.

So I still have to do some mucking about in Citadel before clearing that Act 1 wish

I wish it was faster to get the first oil

You gotta do Cogwork Dancers then most of Vault

[primal hedge]

hm, is it really most? I don't recall exactly which order the rooms are locked in

compared to all of citadel it felt pretty quick

[versed wagon]

The only thing you don't have to do is Trobbio, which only locks the cylinder

And maybe one mask shard

[primal hedge]

oh right, I put off Trobbio for half of the act

||also the song, unsure if that matters for % since you can't see % anyway||

[versed wagon]

Hmm

I'd love to hack Farsight at the start of the run and see everything progress

[granite kindle]

I feel like after you get it in one save it should be unlocked for every save afterwards

[versed wagon]

Citadel is harder than Phantom...

[primal hedge]

we tend to lock in for the boss fights after all

the Phantom fight also completely lacks the challenge of tracking multiple enemies/projectiles/minions, while most Citadel enemies come in groups

[granite kindle]

Time for the dreaded bile water exploration because I rushed through it

[versed wagon]

Don't worry, once you're finished you'll still have to come back at some point

[granite kindle]

I’m in act 3

[versed wagon]

I'm fighting Cogwork Dancers, and for a second there were 4 of them

They launched that attack where they draw lines on the room, and you gotta void them. But I but I had just hit them and triggered the end of phase, and they still launched the attack

[primal hedge]

hm, that sounds more like a bug than steel soul mode messing with you

[versed wagon]

Yeah, probably perfect timing. But if they ever make a harder version, more Dancers seems like it would be fun

[primal hedge]

especially after Sisters of Battle, that would be a no-brainer for a Godhome equivalent

[versed wagon]

Nothing makes me feel stupider than getting hit by Cogwork Dancers

[primal hedge]

I wonder if that fight would be harder or easier if they were actually aiming at you

[elfin kettle]

Finally killed her, what a fight

I forgive the ants for everything

Absolutely fucking adorable

[primal hedge]

end of that sequence: ||getting to hear from all three of her "mothers" was great in so many ways||

[elfin kettle]

OMFG ||Herra||, I can't

Oh this is new, I don't think we knew ||she studied under the hive queen how to fight||

Wait, di TC never actually made this lore official before now, do you know Ix?

Because now that it's before me, ||it's so plausible when you compare the hive knight fight with hornet fighting style, that there is no way they didn't already decide this back in HK||

Oh the 1% I was missing was ||completing the wish to get the flower||

[primal hedge]

conveniently I did look this up during my playthrough

the big quote from the wiki page is:
||Team Cherry explained in a Reddit comment that an unused concept for Hornet had her be the "Child of Three Queens": born to Herrah, raised by the White Lady and trained under and named by Hive Queen Vespa. They cannot confirm so far if that aspect of her story is still canon.||
my understanding of this sequence in Silksong is that ||HK had already canonized "born to Herrah". Silksong has now canonized "raised by the White Lady" (for at least some non-zero period of time) and "trained under ... Vespa". Technically I did not see a confirmation of "named by ... Vespa", but at this point I think we can safely assume that. The Needle being upgraded to "Hivesteel Needle" also seems like Silksong confirming the Hive made her Needle.||

[elfin kettle]

Oh yeah it makes a whole lot of sense that it has ||the hive pattern||

[elfin kettle]

Ok assuming this is the last boss, I'll need some pratice, still, awesome shit.

[primal hedge]

I had to go all the way back up to farm shell shards for that boss

[elfin kettle]

That would suck, I have 20 shards thingy so hopefully I wont need to.

[primal hedge]

for what it's worth, (minor final boss spoilers) ||Lost Lace has three phases, at least the way I interpreted that fight: The just swordfighting phase, the phase mixing void attacks with sword stuff, and the final phase where void is flooding into the chamber. So I tried to save my tools for the third and final phase.||

[elfin kettle]

Yeah tomorrow I'll spend the day learning the fight and see if I need to bring out some major bullshit with the tools or not

[primal hedge]

for the record I employed only marginal bullshit

[elfin kettle]

For now I'm going wanderer so only one tool doesn't leave much space to bullshit, but I may go fully architect degeneracy, we'll see

[primal hedge]

I kinda want to see this now

[elfin kettle]

I'll just say that with the slingshot you can fit many rollers on the screen

If you don't mind like, destroying your shards reserves every run

If you go in as blue hp regen right away the only things you have to spend your silk on is on making new tools too

Well and hookshot

So there really is no reason to hold back

[primal hedge]

...is that the first time any of us have called clawline hookshot

ah no Artiks called it "hookshoot" once

[elfin kettle]

I just didn't remember the official name

[versed wagon]

The first phase is the same as previously but faster and meaner, so it felt bad using tools. I chose to tank that with plain needlefighting

But honestly, || she doesn't have much HP. Without tools it felt like a regular fight, not a slog, so in the end I'd just throw a couple on phase 2 or 3 when you have to stay put and can't go land a hit ||

[primal hedge]

||at least for me, another factor was that in phase 2 and 3 it feels like she's using tools against me, so fair's fair ||

[versed wagon]

I hadn't looked at it that way

Extremely fair

[burnt perch]

how good is multibinder

[versed wagon]

Haven't tried it

[mortal yarrow]

it's amazing with injection band

that and warding bell, you're pretty much guaranteed to get at least two masks of heal in, and either you get the full four, or you block a hit

and if you're lucky on the timing, you'll get both

[versed wagon]

Act 2 time

[versed wagon]

The Steelsoul wish wants me to go to Bilewater

As I said, you can be done with Bilewater but Bilewater is never done with you

[versed wagon]

DAMAGE UPGRADE

[mortal yarrow]

https://youtu.be/Cu_zNGSdv4s

[elfin kettle]

IMO multibinder is kind of okay during exploration, in combat the one extra hp is not worth it for the extra time spent healing

[burnt perch]

so its a 4 hp heal with a longer cast

[versed wagon]

Gourmand oil

[burnt perch]

pretty nice

today I met the furnace master behind the hookshot gate in iron docks

I thought I was going to one shot him but then he spawned a second furnace master

asshole

[versed wagon]

Second furnace master always gets you

Did you remember to equip your fire tool?

[burnt perch]

not the one that makes you take less

[versed wagon]

Yeah that one

[versed wagon]

Shoutouts to Voltvessels for absolutely destroying Father of the Flame. Didn't even have to leave the ground

[elfin kettle]

Oh yeah that tool is basically a direct cheat for that one huh

[versed wagon]

I saw someone did the math and Drill, Buzzsaw, Voltvessel and Curveclaw have the highest damage output in that order

And drill was, like, twice what second place can do, which is crazy

But I guess it's inconsistent, the enemy can easily break free of it before the drill attack runs out

[elfin kettle]

Yeah drill is highly dependent if the enemy stays put for long enough

So you can really guarantee it on most bosses only after a stun

The buzzsaw I feel must also vary by how big the enemy hitbox is

[versed wagon]

And it's gotta not fly

But when buzzsaw fits the right boss, it destroys them

The bastard in Whiteward is the best example

[elfin kettle]

And caltrops win for me anyway because they are basically passive and they get damage passively as you fight without you having to dedicate much attention to deploy them.
Meaning that you don't have to sacrifice any window you'd otherwise use for a nail attack

You can both do the nail attack and let caltrops do their job

[versed wagon]

Same reason Cogflies rule

Also I love that they also sing. Truly nothing in this game is immune to the Needolin

[burnt perch]

when you say drill do you mean the one from raging conchfly

[versed wagon]

Nah

The one that turns Hornet into a drill

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-hollow-knight-hornet-hollow-knight-silk-song-drill-gif-25942069

[burnt perch]

gurren lagann

[granite kindle]

||Finally at lost lace after 71hrs 37 mins.||

I explored every inch I could and I’m still missing 1 silk upgrade

[mortal yarrow]

spoiler tag

[versed wagon]

I just realised Elder Hu is from the same...culture? region? As Shakra and her master

Trying to think if Markoth or Xero could've been from Coral kingdom

[versed wagon]

Rewards for the Steelsoul-only wish: || A unique boss/miniboss fight, they're Void-themed that's all I'll say; and an item you can break for shell shards and regens over time ||

Can't be finished without DJ so it's relatively late in Act 2

[versed wagon]

I found where you find G&Z in Act 2

(He's very easy)

If you fight him, he can then show up to help you fight the Gauntler in High Halls for the plot objective, but

If you've finished Shakra's quest, she shows up instead

[primal hedge]

you can get help in HHA!?

...touche, Team Cherry

[versed wagon]

You can't get both of them, but I'll definitely take Shakra mostly to fight alongside her

[primal hedge]

man I don't even remember getting her quest until after HHA

and G&Z never offered to help with a boss or arena for me

makes you wonder if that was intentional balancing keeping me from taking the easy way out by using poison caltrops instead

[versed wagon]

I think the only trigger is beating Bilewater's boss

[primal hedge]

oh

that would explain all of it then lol

[versed wagon]

I've done it in various orders and when I get back to Bellhart after that, her quest is up

It makes doing her quest very easy, if you have Ducts

[primal hedge]

which requires double jump, which requires going left of citadel, which I didn't do until I had most of citadel itself finished

so yeah this all adds up

[versed wagon]

Easiest HHA of my life

[elfin kettle]

Ok, I'm almost there with my ||Lost Lace|| pratice, ||I can reliably get to phase 3 and hang in there reasonably long, tonight getting out a beer and getting ready for the finale||

[mortal yarrow]

good luck, and enjoy!

[versed wagon]

Huh, so you can do this in Act 2

[versed wagon]

Good news: dying to First Sinner does not end Steelsoul

|| I am sure the other four stronger cases of "dream fight" also don't||

Man, she felt so fast the first time I faught her, and now she really doesn't

[primal hedge]

once you know the patterns, speed becomes very relative

[versed wagon]

Dammit, I always forget the Surgical Key is in Whiteward itself

What a waste of a trip

Man, the Witch wish is literally a 10m trip when you know exactly what to do

It's pretty weird that upgrading the Hunter crest unequips every tool you have, specially when it doesn't unequip the silk skill

Like it can't decide whether it's a completely new crest or the same one with a change

[mortal yarrow]

sick, ill actually be able to enjoy that fight then, instead of stressing about it

kinda odd that it's like that though, there isn't much indication

[primal hedge]

I look forward to lore theories revolving entirely around that one odd respawn mechanic

[versed wagon]

Yeah it's the only one we do raw

It kinda makes sense because you sometimes go into a dream world when you're learning a skill at one of those Weaver...statues? shrines? I can see how the whole thing was a dream

But it's also not all of them

[elfin kettle]

If I had to hazard a guess, ||in the other dream bosses you enter the memory of the boss, for the First Sinner she pulls you in while you are trying to bind her because she is also a weaver and can do that||

[primal hedge]

...oh, duh, that's probably exactly it

[versed wagon]

Did what I thin is absolutely everything in this third Act 2 run. 5 of the 6 skils, every red tool, every yellow tool, every blue tool minus the one from a wish in Act 3; every spool fragment, 8 and 3/4ths of mask shards, 3 out of 4 nail upgrades, 3 silk hearts, all pouches, all crafting kits, DJ, clawline, dash and needolin
After I || get to the abyss, grab silk soar and Farsight and get ||, this should be the definitive Act 2 completion %

Oh, right, I forgot

Minor stuff: my Bone Bottom is still untouched by the Skull Tyrant, all I've done though is never sit on that bench since Act 2 started

Act || The cradle escape's arena with everything forcefully unequipped might be the hardest challenge in this run yet ||

[elfin kettle]

Ok took a bit longer than I expected, had the proveribal backslide, and got close maybe a half dozen times but

||What a finale||

||The Knight cameo too, which canonise one of two HK endings btw||

Things I have to do eventually now, ||100% journal and beat Trobbio 2, oh and the prince memories I haven't finished either||

For a final verdict, incredible game, I am not sure if I like this more than HK because of the nostalgia factor but I can confidently say it's a better game

7 years well spent at least

[versed wagon]

[versed wagon]

|| Can't wait another 7 years for Lace's game ||

[elfin kettle]

I kind of hope for an actual DLC expansion this time

The game is much more versatile for additions

With the crests and all

And how the tools are structured

[versed wagon]

Alright, 14 years then

[primal hedge]

I look forward to the path of pain crest that gives us a charge "pogo" you can aim in any direction and which way you fly off depends on degree of charge and direction and the thing you hit

[elfin kettle]

It's kind of fun because despite there being no actual overt romance, the game kind of does this anyway with ||Lace||

She ||saves you twice, first from the cage then from grandma trying to bring you down with her, and then you save her from the abyss by carrying her out.||

So while not proper ||romance, it's still this very dramatic sequence of rival talks and saving each other||

[versed wagon]

Bone Bottom update: it gets fucked in Act 3 regardless, as expected

[primal hedge]

||personally I'm solidly in "not romance" camp, because Lace in particular treats Hornet like a stepsister she can blame for mom not loving her enough, and later on Hornet rescuing Lace quite explicitly has less to do with any personal feelings than it does with that being the only way to save all of Pharloom. It's still a great dynamic of course.||

[versed wagon]

We did get the || 2h lesbian makeout scene, it's called Lost Lace boss fight||

[elfin kettle]

lol

[versed wagon]

|| She saves us from a cage? ||

[primal hedge]

oh right, I keep forgetting it's her doing that in the opening cutscene

[versed wagon]

Huh

I've skipped it since, maybe I should've rewatched it

[elfin kettle]

The luminous bug that breaks the seal

She can be seen ||directing them later||

[primal hedge]

||I didn't put that together myself until mossbag said it probably is her because she's conducting the butterflies and she's the only character clearly expressing a desire to stop what the citadel bugs are doing||

[elfin kettle]

After I saw ||her directing the butterflies before her first encounter it's what I assumed was happening, and by the end no one else was using them||

[primal hedge]

||the only other time those butterflies are important is The Mist, and needolining the mirror after it basically tells you Phantom and Lace are sisters, so all of that tracks||

[elfin kettle]

Oh yeah, I forgot about ||the Mist ones, but it makes a lot of sense, since the Mist is explicitly created by Phantom playing their organ||

[primal hedge]

||...does that mean the two of them agreed to each guard one of the two main entrances to the citadel? ||

[elfin kettle]

I don't think so, ||Lace appears even if you go in on the other side to do her little talk||

I think ||Phantom's is just meant to be a hidden, back entrance, which would fit the Phantom of the Opera theme, them hiding on the more hidden almost backstage route.||

As for Hornet being ||at least in part Void, I still stand that she probably is, the void particles in the cocoon are too distinctive to not assume that they are purposeful, the void attacking her isn't dispositive given it attacked the knight too before getting the Void Heart, hell even its own shadow attacked him, it seems just to be that kind of force||

She is such a good character, I like that the hunter entries this time are from her perspective too, really help with the characterisation

[primal hedge]

for now I’m deferring to ||mossbag’s take that the cocoon particles are different from void particles|| but I definitely haven’t done the research to form my own opinion on it

[elfin kettle]

I found this video representing the architect crest degeneracy rather well: ||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsd80Mb3Jik||

[versed wagon]

After || Beastling Call, final nail upgrade, Silk Soar and assembling Farsight ||: 93%
Pending: 5 shards, one skill, one blue tool, one crest, || the flower, the other song and Eva ||. How that adds up to 7%, unsure

[elfin kettle]

5 shards is 2 masks and I assume 2%

[versed wagon]

One of the spoilered three doesn't count

[elfin kettle]

Assuming 1% per crest, ||Eva and the blue tool||

Weare at 5%

[versed wagon]

One skill

6%

[elfin kettle]

The ||flower quest|| is 1%

[versed wagon]

Right, || the song doesn't count for sure since you were at 99% ||

[elfin kettle]

Yes

[versed wagon]

Then the || puppies || song also doesn't count. Which probably means Act two leaves you at 91% and I got +2 from needle upgrade and || silk soar ||

[elfin kettle]

I literally checked before turning in the quest, and after. and it was ||getting the flower/completing the wish that moved the needle||

[versed wagon]

Incidentally, I'm also about to find out exaclty how many lockets || Eva || wants. I have everything opened except two + however many are on || Shaman || which is either 2 or 4 more

[elfin kettle]

2

[versed wagon]

Alright, with 7 crests and 4 unopened slots, I got it

So you don't need all of them, and you can skip at least 4

[elfin kettle]

Ok so there is some leeway

[versed wagon]

You cannot skip 7

That's all I was missing last run but I only came back with all of them open

It's also good to know you don't need at least one opened slot in every crest, a restriction I thought was plausible

Oh. Now that I think about it, the question of "Does it end Steelsoul?" was always simple

Do you leave a cocoon? No? Then you're safe

[primal hedge]

when I was checking %s for the main plot, I came to the conclusion that you get a % whenever the main quest name/description in the menu changes, not for any “subgoals”

[versed wagon]

Would make sense that those count

[versed wagon]

Act 3 is where Steelsoul runs come to die, for sure

[burnt perch]

dont you just pause every time your cheat death activates

how do you lose the run

[versed wagon]

Yeah, but it's happening to me just moving through hallways, not in boss fights

If someone says they didn't fraudsoul their 100% Steelsoul achievement, I'm asking for the video. Otherwise they're making it up

[burnt perch]

yeah im not even gonna try a steelsoul

it was fun in hollow knight

this game is too hard

[versed wagon]

I think Cogfly got nerfed, it doesn't feel as strong as it was

[versed wagon]

I've finally graduated from equipping the compass

[elfin kettle]

Oh, you know you can lose a % of completion, even if only for a brief moment?

I have looking up the stuff I missed and I learned how to upgrade the ||boomerang, to do that you have to give it to an NPC rest at a bench and come back, for the bit in which I didn't have it, it counted as me losing the 1% it gives||

[versed wagon]

I didn't thinkg to check % during that

But that makes sense

[mortal yarrow]

||i wonder if the slab does that, if you cheat in farsight||

[versed wagon]

I really want to try that, though you still need Home to assemble it so it would probably have to be a mod

Unless, I wonder if you can assemble it at Mount Fay?

[mortal yarrow]

nah, you can probably get the key first

||the slab sequence hinges on whether you kill the enemy or not from what i hear?|| and i was able to do it pretty late in act 2

[versed wagon]

The key requires doing all the donations at Bellhart, which is pretty easy but I don't know the triggers. It didn't seem like clearing one would put up the next one, there was something else.
||But to have Farsight working from the start of the game so you can see the % from the start, it would have to be a mod||

[mortal yarrow]

hmm

||kinda wish it was active on any save after getting it just once||

but yeah, i don't know

[versed wagon]

||I understand thematically and even gaming wise why Farsight is so late in the game, but I feel like once you get it in one playthrough it should unlock for all files. It doesn't really matter in the end but idk, it just feels weird you can't see how you're doing until you're at 93%||

Now I wonder what's the lowest % you can get

[mortal yarrow]

low% true ending could be very interesting with some major skips

we shall see, though

definitely going to be more of an enjoyable watch than 50 hours of bees, that's for sure

though that did make for a good video

[versed wagon]

Absolute minimum you have to get is silk spear, dash, clawline, mantis claw, you don't have to get Stitches but the alternative is beating TLJ; then the three Citadel objectives.

Then for Ending 2 nothing that counts towards %

And then you get || Silk Soar and Farsight ||

Could maybe be as low as 7 or 8%

Although the main wishes also adds % points, as Gen found out

[mortal yarrow]

just ||the flower||

[versed wagon]

Playign the whole game with 5 masks scares me

[mortal yarrow]

6% from abilities
2% from required silk hearts
1% from silkspear
1% from main story
1% each from spool/mask upgrades, if required wishes make you get them
1% each from however many tools/tool upgrades you get from wishes

[versed wagon]

Right the silk hearts

Ah, do we know for sure the conditions for the Snare quest?

[elfin kettle]

I think for the snare you have to complete a lot of wishes

I assume all of them that would be ||missable in act 3||

The rewards I mean

[versed wagon]

I will find out I suppose

[mortal yarrow]

the aforementioned major skips: ||https://youtu.be/BC9LS9KuCJo|| ||https://youtu.be/c3L_f9l7GXc||

actually wild

though it requires getting other things instead, so i don't think it'd skip percent

[elfin kettle]

Insane, so this one technically doesn't have a boss guarding it

But you have to do go and do ||Mount Fay without hookshot from the slab|| which is also insane

To be fair though, that require some cocoon setup jumps which I am not sure I'd count as intended

[versed wagon]

MF with Sharpdart is crazy but it makes sense

Wait but how do you get to Sharpdart without clawline, I tried that and never made it work

Is it with a cocoon?

[elfin kettle]

There are a couple of cocoon pogos along the way

FOr this video

For sharpdart I have no idea

Maybe

[mortal yarrow]

heal stalling i think

[versed wagon]

Huh

[mortal yarrow]

someone was saying in the comments of that one that you can supposedly make the jump with swift step only? there is coyote time but im not sure how tight it'd be

[versed wagon]

I forgot that was a thing, I used it a few time in HK rando

[versed wagon]

I didn't try it with the Flea fluid

Maybe the extra speed helps

I just went to try it but I can't balloon without doublejumping. But I think it's doable with just balloon, dash and both speed tools

[primal hedge]

Fixed various instances of dying to bosses while killing them causing death sequences to play messily or out of sync.

I see I'm not the only one who kept doing this

[primal hedge]

could this be part of it?

Fixed Cogflies incorrectly resetting their HP to full on scene change.

oh hey, I think this is what happened to me

Fixed some NPCs not correctly playing cursed hint dialogues in certain instances.

[elfin kettle]

Oh hey, you were wondering what was mandatory for act 3 earlier.
Here is a speedrun to true ending
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NCylbs1-cc

[snow wigeon]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EiRfujXmZH8

[primal hedge]

goddammit mossbag

ok I totally called the "pogo boosting"

oh, runners call it HHG (High Halls Gauntlet) instead of Arena

oh well

taunt has a use!?

[mortal yarrow]

yep! i've started skipping sister splinter just to make steel soul """runbacks""" less painful

also does a very slight amount of damage which is like. why???

[burnt perch]

3 days later im back for furnace master...

[versed wagon]

You can do it

[versed wagon]

Fraudsoul done. Next up will be a low% so I can have a real challenge

[versed wagon]

I hate being dashles...

I don't know if the quill counts as a % but I'm not playing this mapless

[granite kindle]

Finally deciding to start and finish a steel soul run in hollow knight. Despite multiple play throughs I’ve never finished a steel soul run. Lol at city in my steel,soul run don’t know if I should take on soul master now or grind for lantern for the shriek.

I might do another run or 2 of silksong before attempting a steel soul run

[versed wagon]

Weird thing about low% is your spool is always broken. You don't get a topper until you complete your first spool pair

[versed wagon]

The Mist spoilers: || If you use the needolin on the fireflies in the starting room, they go up and to the right instead of to the entrance to the maze. Could be a bug, but up and to the right is where the exit would be when the room is de-misted ||

[pearl patrol]

I saw this today and thought people here might like it:
https://www.tumblr.com/ampersandss/794611094712942593

Ampersandss

First post here! Playing Silksong in the little free time I’ve got, doodled a Hornet in two hours. Can’t guarantee I’ll draw and post more HK, as I’m more of a speculative evolution and Rain World fanatic, but feel free to stick around nonetheless.

-# #silksong #hollow knight #hollow knight silksong #hollow knight hornet #hornet hk #hk hornet

Tumblr · Sep 13, 2025, 9:49 PM

There’s some follow-ups, but they have spoilers so…

[versed wagon]

HHG is kicking my ass

[versed wagon]

Just realised there's one tool I'm allowed to use: The Snare
Might come in clutch

[versed wagon]

[versed wagon]

BTW you can't skip the silk heart

[mortal yarrow]

are wings required for low%?

[primal hedge]

pretty sure the any% records from Fireborn's video were skipping wings

[mortal yarrow]

or is it not needed for snare

[primal hedge]

for low% act 3 I dunno

[versed wagon]

Wings are not needed for Endings 1 or 2. They are required to hit Act 3 tho

Snare needs it

I'm not here to beat Act 1 low%, I'm here to get the lowest % from Farsight

Though I did take the free nail upgrade and the Hunter upgrade (which turns out to also be free), because I don't hate myself that much

Whatever I get you can take out 2%, I assume

[mortal yarrow]

ahhhh

presumably 2% extra yeah

[versed wagon]

Ending 1 achieved.

[elfin kettle]

Congrats

[versed wagon]

Let's see if I can start the Ed2 wish

Nope. I'm gonna go beat ||the Bilewater boss||, since I'll have to do that anyway, and see if she talks to me when I have one of the three items

[versed wagon]

Groal fucking sucks

[versed wagon]

Fuck you Groal

[versed wagon]

Answer is no

[versed wagon]

TIL there's unique flea icons for the wish screen

[granite kindle]

Not hollow knight but I just realized I’ve never played the first ori game. So I know what I’m doing today

[versed wagon]

Hmm, looks like I'm gonna have to do a lot if not all of the wishes, this low% is gonna get pretty lame

[granite kindle]

Got c dash in my hollow knight steel soul run. Had a close call.

[granite kindle]

Remembered vengeful upgrade this time

[versed wagon]

I think they buffed the timer for the Gourmand courier. I remember 6 bars not 8

[burnt perch]

cant see anything about that on google

[primal hedge]

I feel like it was always 8

[versed wagon]

I did all the wishes that don't reward an upgrade/tool, I took || the Fleas all the way to Fleatopia|| because I read that might be necessary, I did the journal quest since I thought that could be a blocker

I did the gourmand but did not collect my oil

All I have left are wishes that will increase my % for sure. The Wormways tool, the poison tool, longclaw

The floor spikes

And it looks like I'm gonna need a few if not all. I'm going with Wormways first, given || how Act 3 changes the guy ||, that could be a blocker

[mortal yarrow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Silk_and_Soul

requirements here

[versed wagon]

This wans't populated last time I looked at it, so it's just in time

Ah shit, I could've done endless couriers instead of increasing my %

[elfin kettle]

I know for sure you have to save ||sherma since he becomes the ward for the Songclave||

[versed wagon]

Good to know the free nail upgrade is mandatory

[primal hedge]

it says the repeatables only count once

yeah saving Sherma is the "Balm for the Wounded" required wish

[versed wagon]

I've cross-referenced the required wishes, I'm definitely only missing the 17 points

[primal hedge]

hm, 22 "quest" wishes and 6 deliveries, with 17 quest points required

so a majority of these wishes are required, it's more like you're choosing which ones to skip

[versed wagon]

So, if I didn't make a mistake, these are the ones that give a % increase (although the S for Shard might not count since it's just 1/4th, but you need to get the Beast Crest for that wish to show up)

Also you can complete Great Taste of Pharloom without cashing in the oil for an upgrade

I didn't even pick it up, but the wish shows as completed

[primal hedge]

doing all of gourmand without even getting the upgrade would be such a cursed route

so if your list is right, that's 12 quest wishes which don't give a %

do any of the deliveries give a %? all 6 of those would be 3 more quest points without any %s I think

meaning you have to pick 2 quests that give a %

ugh that does mean low% act 3 is gonna require gourmand without cashing in the oil

nowhere near as cursed as the essence farming low% in HK 1 though

[versed wagon]

And if I didn't make a mistake here either, I'm at 15/17 points

I've ignored The Slab because it's not necessary for anything, but if I did it I could've done Wailing Mother, and I already did Great Taste without taking the upgrade. The upgrades I got are from Journal quest and Alchemist, so that means 14/17 points is the maximum you can get without increasing your %

I'm gonna do couriers and see if I can hit 2 points just with that. I do believe it is necessary to pick up at least one wish with a real reward, but no more than 3 should be absolutely necessary for the lowest % possible

As an aside, if you're forced to bite a bullet, Alchemist is for sure a good one for extra health in a 5-masks world. After that I think you could pick up either the poison or the green berry tool. And the green berry and the alchemist tool can both be upgraded without affecting your %

[primal hedge]

when you say 14, that's the 12 quests with no % reward, GToP without cashing in oil, and what's the 14th?

[versed wagon]

Maybe I messed up, but I'm presumably at 15/17. -2 from Journal and Alchemist, +1 from Wailing Mother which I didn't do should be the non-% quests?

Oh I forgot about Berry picking

So that's a -3, and you're right. 13/17 is the max

[primal hedge]

wiki says all the deliveries reward rosaries, or greater Styx silkeater production, which matches my memory, so those should be 3 quest points with no %s

so yeah exactly "one wish with a real (unavoidable) reward"

[versed wagon]

Styx has a wish?

[primal hedge]

assuming none of the others can be completed while skipping the reward upgrade

a delivery

Queen's Egg

[versed wagon]

Oh that one

I think I did that in Act 3, not sure if it's available. Same for Lacker. I'll do some couriers and see if they cycle into the pool

Right now I have only the common ones

[primal hedge]

for Pinmaster's Oil, does the first oil upgrade require rosaries? does the wish only get completed after you actually upgrade?

[versed wagon]

If I talk to him a second time after the free upgrade, I think he gives the wish to finding oil

Which can be completed upong returning one

I haven't even picked up the wish

I can probably complete that and then say no to the upgrade, yeah?

[primal hedge]

sorry yeah the free upgrade is obv required to start the wish, I mean can the oil upgrade be skipped

[versed wagon]

Free upgrade is also required for one of the hard-required quests, so I'm happy I didn't only pick it up for sanity

[primal hedge]

ah right

maybe Savage Beastfly can be done without picking up the shard?

all the others you marked I think are situations where the wish completion and the tool receipt are part of the same NPC conversation with no additional requirements, so presumably no chance of skipping those

[versed wagon]

The problem with Savage Beastfly wish is it doesn't show up without getting the Beast crest

Or I assume that's the trigger. My boards are empty, so I feel it doesn't show up because I've never fought it

Picked up the oil, talked to the guy, I can say no to the upgrade. No wish completion

[primal hedge]

ok, that might be the best choice for your one unavoidable quest % then

[versed wagon]

Also a solid option

[primal hedge]

might even be the ultimate speedrun route, since the Vaults oil is barely a detour, and a nail upgrade ought to save quite a bit of time later

looks at the % quest wishes again

oh yeah this has to be the fastest one

unless the low% route just happens to pass very close to all of the collectibles in one of these other wishes and can pick up the wish early enough that it's not a big detour... which I doubt

[versed wagon]

Yeah I don't think Gourmand is convenient at any point, even if you start it after you get DJ, at the very least you have to double back to the druid which has nothing else on the way that late in the game.

There's flars in SoK so that ingredient isn't bad, and there's probably something you can do in SR along the way

Plus the alcohol too

Two deliveries take you those ways, if you're doing absolute-low%

[primal hedge]

mossberries for the druid is definitely a big detour though

[versed wagon]

Mmm

[primal hedge]

yeah Gourmand takes you so many places that some of it might be convenient, but there's no way the whole quest is faster than Pinmaster's Oil

[versed wagon]

Maybe a quick stop if you're doing the Bone Bottom courier, which is just "jump down The Hole"

Regardless, yeah

[primal hedge]

SoK is actually the clearest example since you would normally never go there until you can get the Coral Tower heart for act 3, much less into that optional platforming gauntlet

what did you mean by "flars"?

[primal hedge]

true, you have to deliver the meat regardless

[versed wagon]

Doing the Fleatopia courier for the first time, with this I'll have done all of these "don't get hit too much" trips.
Incidentally, Queen's Egg and Lacquer never showed up, but I just realised I never talked to either of those NPCs, which could be a requirement

[versed wagon]

I meant fleas

[primal hedge]

oh

[versed wagon]

You do need to take the caravan to its final destination

Which requires about 90% of the fleas

And SoK has.... one? two?

Maybe it can be skipped

Ah but

Hmmm

[primal hedge]

oh if it's not 100% then flea routing is gonna be a whole thing

[versed wagon]

I don't think Shakra gives you her quest until you've bought every map from her, which would require SoK

[primal hedge]

the SoK flea is in the lower half

[versed wagon]

I had an issue where it wasn't showing up, so I went to pick up the maps I missed and then it did

[primal hedge]

so the route is probably do the lower half of SoK during act 2, open shortcut to Blasted Steps on the way out, then use that to get to the upper half in act 3

[versed wagon]

Yeah

Also opening that shortcut drops you on the Blasted Step's flea

[primal hedge]

oh I was thinking of the shortcut by TLJ

I guess there's two shortcuts here

did I never open this one...

[versed wagon]

Another thing I wondered is if I could've skipped the pouch upgrade from the final Flea trip if I didn't travel with them

[primal hedge]

they'll never move without you, right?

[versed wagon]

You can say no

[primal hedge]

oh

[versed wagon]

The caravan moves and you stay where you are

[primal hedge]

huh

I guess that's useful on later playthroughs

[versed wagon]

Very convenient considering how out of the way the final place is

Also convenient if you collect them all before even starting

Just move with them and keep talking to the guy

[primal hedge]

or yeah the last place, since you have to visit it before they can move to it

[versed wagon]

Fuck. I collected all the fleas in case it was a blocker, now I have another tool I shouldn't have

Ending 2 unlocked

[elfin kettle]

Of the speedruns I watched it's kind of fun that in Act 3 they go full ||shaman crest with the silkstorm and the tool that adds electric damage||

Which is something I didn't really touch

Also they do ||verdania so I don't remember if they bother with SOK given they skip do the act 3 boss in there||

[primal hedge]

the speedruns always end up on something you never touch in casual play

[versed wagon]

Act 3 time

[elfin kettle]

My guess is that it turns out with the 70 levels gauntlet there, makes it the one that they want to skip

[primal hedge]

interesting, is ||Verdania just that much faster than Coral Tower||? I would've expected them to be similarly huge detours

[elfin kettle]

I assume if you know where to go it's pretty fast

[primal hedge]

oh wait in a speedrun you're probably super undergeared so the constant combat route would be slower

yeah I put off Tower until I had max upgrades

[elfin kettle]

IDK that combo is kind of scary, it does a lot of damage, especially since they don't need much to enable it, like, no need to level up their tool pouch at all.

[versed wagon]

Huh

Yeah that makes sense

But how much damage do the fire/electric tools add?

[elfin kettle]

Quite a bit

Also the buff from Shaman Crest

[primal hedge]

oh, is this one of those situations where the multi-hit power causes all the other multipliers to do more multiplication?

[versed wagon]

Ugh, Act 3 escape. I hate it here

[primal hedge]

I don't even remember the crest buffs

I found Shaman about five minutes before I finished

The Shaman Crest increases the Damage of Silk Skills by 50%.

oh

that is much stronger than the in-game description made it sound

[elfin kettle]

It does change the way you heal though

And has much fewer tool slots

So you pay a lot for it, but in a SR it doesn't really matter

[elfin kettle]

Like, having to be on the ground to heal is a big loss

Especially since they do nyleth with it

[versed wagon]

Probably just dies to a couple silk spears

[elfin kettle]

It dies fast, don't get me wrong, but not that fast that not being able to heal is not a concern

[versed wagon]

Ugh, centipede. I hate it here

I wish you could skip the red dream

[versed wagon]

And here we are:

I think it would be possible to deduct 3%? (Hunter crest upgrade, two tools)

Then, you add the 1% from the final quest reward (|| the flower ||), and I think the lowest % you can beat the game with is 16%

[versed wagon]

Can't go in without picking up the tool. Another forced %

[elfin kettle]

So maybe skipping that one and going verdania should bypass it?

[primal hedge]

does Verdania involve any %s

the simple key is not a %, right?

[elfin kettle]

I don't think so

[versed wagon]

Everything takes so many hits...

[versed wagon]

There's no tools or shards or spools or anything in there, just the journal entries and the heart at the end

[versed wagon]

Also I have to do Nyleth without tools, I might quit this run

Hah, there really is nothing missable in this game

Act 3 with 5 masks fucking sucks

I think I'm done

[elfin kettle]

Oh watching a speedrun I learned you can ||break the door to the refuge above far field, the one you have to pay for every time you enter||

||You pay once, go in and attack up||

[versed wagon]

Hah

[granite kindle]

6 hours in on my hollow knight steel soul run, got double jump and working towards 2 nd nail upgrade

[versed wagon]

Aspid will claim this one for sure

[granite kindle]

Just taking a break from it so fatigue doesn’t cause any avoidable mistakes. Plan on getting the first dreamer tomorrow or later today. I’ve got the watcher knight as my next goal with Just getting mask pieces and shriek

As soon as I could I b lined for vengeful upgrade.

my charms are long nail,fragile heart and quick focus as I only have 7 masks

[granite kindle]

Kinda what I’m afraid. Random prime aspid death.

[elfin kettle]

Silksong True Ending Spoiler: ||https://www.rxddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1nulw3r/true_ending_spoilers_awesome_lesbian_couple/||

[versed wagon]

Real

[versed wagon]

https://www.rxddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1nv5lnf/malenia_is_fucking_impossible/

Do it with 5 HP and a strength build

[iron minnow]

idk if this is a spoiler but just in case ||https://www.tumblr.com/redzombie/795962277898715136/oh-no||

[evil laughter]

oh no

-# #it's a canon event #i can't intervene #average oldest daughter experience #hornet #hollow knight #hollow knight silksong #silksong #hk #hkss #gaming #my art

Tumblr · Sep 28, 2025, 7:46 PM