anyone else on the high halls gauntlet rn
#Hollow Knight/Silksong
burnt perch
burnt perch
this is too long... I need a nail upgrade
versed wagon
So true, that gauntlet is the longest one in the game for sure
Don't forget to use your red tools tho. As for needle upgrades, how many have you got? The free one and one oil?
versed wagon
Do you have double jump?
versed wagon
Okay, there's one oil available to you then. Your hint if you want it is || Vaults ||
burnt perch
I dont even have access to the stag station in the citadel bro 
primal hedge
So true, that gauntlet is the longest one in the game for sure
||longer than coral tower? 
||
versed wagon
||That's three gauntlets in a trenchcoat||
elfin kettle
anyone else on the high halls gauntlet rn
Fuck that thing, I was hard stuck on it for so long
versed wagon
https://www.rxddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1nf46r0/no_silksong_at_the_nintendo_direct_again_im_done/
versed wagon
I found that one before the quest and I honestly don't remember where, I was so happy about it
Still ended up going back to Bilewater for other reasons...
versed wagon
Alright I have 1h and 48m to beat Ending 1 for the achievement and I just beat cogwork dancers chat am I cooked
elfin kettle
Probably, also fuck for ending 1 you are required to do the ||high hall challenge room right?||
That's gonna be a roadblock
mortal yarrow
for high halls, ||the room above the hallway leading up to the fight lets you delete the guys who drain your silk (if you have double jump)|| and also ||you can get help from a couple npcs if you finish their quests||
elfin kettle
For the ||NPCs I doubt you can take time to do their quest if you are on a 5h timer||
mortal yarrow
ohhh on speedrun yeah
versed wagon
I'm gonna have to look up the solution of the cogwork music puzzle, otherwise I'd waste 50 minutes up there
34m to beat || Lace and granny ||. I may absolutely be cooked, but I can always revert
elfin kettle
Ok so I'm technically ready for shit, does this lock me out of anything?
primal hedge
no
like HK you get a choice after the fight ||but far more explicitly this time; literally two button prompts||
elfin kettle
I more mean, executing on it locks me out of anything?
primal hedge
oh
ok that I don’t know
||transitioning to act 3 definitely changes a bunch of stuff but I’m not clear on whether the missable content is just dialogue, or includes anything more important||
elfin kettle
I mean it would be nice to find one more mask shard since I'm at 8 and 3/4 but it's not something I can exacly just conjure out of thin air
versed wagon
Act 1 ending spoilers: I do love how this ends up
elfin kettle
As a sidenote, I did try the tools that makes you take double damage while farming and an enemy that takes 8 hits went down to 7, doesn't exactly seem super worth it
versed wagon
Also fun fact, you don't need DJ to beat the game
versed wagon
I mean it would be nice to find one more mask shard since I'm at 8 and 3/4 but i...
I think a solid entire mask is only in act 3
So at most you're missing a shard, but it's the most important shard
Just equip critical mask and it's the same thing tho
elfin kettle
So I basically just missed a fragment, this makes it even less likely I'll find it.
I guess I still have one boss I know of I have to kill so I'll at least do that
versed wagon
Finished at 4h 48m, but the speedrunner achievement is very friendly with the revert system. You don't have to re-attempt from scratch
Also, || Lace is the real final boss, Granny is so easy in comparison ||
Now I can leisurely enjoy the rerun, 26h should be way more than enough for 100%
versed wagon
Lmao I come across Shakra and she's holding 5 maps for me
Sorry I keep zooming through the areas bestie 
burnt perch
I think I have to come back to those two big guys at the end with more damage and maybe doublr jump...
versed wagon
Pouch and/or tool damage upgrades can also help, since you get to hold more red tools and they do 25% more damage
elfin kettle
For that one i literally had to come back after 2 nail upgrades, that challenge room is brutal
That said poison caltrops help, I just ran out of them
versed wagon
Caltrops are one of the goated tools for sure
elfin kettle
Assuming the enemy is on the ground they are absurdly powerful
burnt perch
Everything is fine except those two big guys
at least tell me I get something cool other than the song if I win
elfin kettle
Oh, I kinda ||love this, I can bring this thing from 2 different people and each will repair it differently||
I am looking it up though, since it doesn't seem like you'd be able to change this
Oh it's apparently ||3 variants?|| Yeah no I'm definitely waiting
versed wagon
I haven't found one site that describes the differences
||I did the Docks variant, tried it and then never used it||
|| From what I found out, overall the tool is the same, in basic functionality. It's a ranged kinda thing. The details are what change ||
elfin kettle
||I looked up a youtube video and they largely seem to fire differently, I haven't stumbled on the weaver variant and I purposely skipped the part of the video that pinpointed where you get it, if I stumble upon it I'll probably pick that one||
versed wagon
|| Yeah there's two pretty obvious options for getting it crafted but they did a good job hiding the third option ||
elfin kettle
I don't like too much ||that it's a permanent choice, it'd be nice if they let you modify it if you pay the different crafter||
versed wagon
||Yeah I feel like that's something that could've been permanent at first then unlocked the other two variants late in act 3 or something||
But alas
elfin kettle
Maybe in the DLC, after all ||fragile charms were fragile until they weren't in HK||
versed wagon
DJ acquired, I think I'll literally go back to the start and experience most of the game with full mobility, and almost no backtracking
For the speedrun I did Bell Beast -> dash and Lace -> balloon and Far fields boss -> Greymoor, thread storm, Moorwing, Bellheart, Shellwood, mantis claw, nedolin boss, nedolin. At this point I noticed I was only 2h30m in so I went for the speedrun achievement, so overall I have Act 1 mostly untouched
primal hedge
|| Yeah there's two pretty obvious options for getting it crafted but they did a...
yeah, I never would've found the 3rd place if not for ||all the Mount Fay revisit quests making me look for Silk Soar shortcuts to the peak which accidentally led me into that room||
versed wagon
yeah, I never would've found the 3rd place if not for ||all the Mount Fay revisi...
|| I noticed late in the 97-99% range when I looked at the pinned map, to see what I missed if anything and there were a few rooms like these, that are hidden and contain no rewards or objectives just lore or hidden stuff like this bench ||
|| Though I'm not sure if you can't craft it in your home too, tbf ||
primal hedge
if you can do that in your home, none of the sources I was checking during the last few % where I just googled everything mentioned it, which would be an odd thing to miss
versed wagon
It's just something I saw mentioned somewhere, at this point in time it's just possibilities nobody has the full facts
Completing the journal for example, I used like 20 different sources for finding spawns of enemies in act 3. Kudos to TC for making everything available (except those 2 entries you can miss, which don't seem to matter for the quest and are just extras)
Also I'm glad that wish and reward don't count for 100%
primal hedge
yeah I was really tempted to complete the journal up to the "missable boundary" but after realizing ||the path of pain had unique enemies|| I hard nope'd out of that
versed wagon
Those should've been extras too, that's a shame.
That said, || it really isn't as bad as PoP, thanks to the verticality it's very easy to recover and even fall back, and the enemies are infinite heals, there's a couple safe spots where you can just farm silk.||
|| The hardest part is the completely-unused-anywhere-else trick where you have to clawline then double jump after that ||
primal hedge
I was expecting that response and I did grind it for a little while because I did realize exactly what you just said, but that was not enough ||partly because the silk farming was only safe once; I died more often trying and failing to farm than from the actual platforming||
versed wagon
I gotchu, give a minute. The second safe spot is funny
primal hedge
well, I believe it's the third part where the lack of safe spot actually stopped me
versed wagon
Yeah depends on what definition of parts we have
primal hedge
||the part that introduced the unique floating enemy to pogo on||
not that I'm going back to it now anyway, I've already moved on to other stuff
versed wagon
|| Ah, well there's a solid standing platform at the start of that sections, right? You can kill the bottom enemy for silks. They respawn ||
primal hedge
huh, that sounds nothing like the section I'm remembering
elfin kettle
So I basically just missed a fragment, this makes it even less likely I'll find ...
Nevermind, found it
All that's left is a trip to ||fleatopia since I can't see any more felas on my map then boss||
mortal yarrow
I was expecting that response and I did grind it for a little while because I di...
||overdose on plasmium|| and go for it again sometime maybe
primal hedge
nah, limited resources never help when there are too few checkpoints
mortal yarrow
||getting 9 plasmium masks gives you a regenerating healthbar||
just be careful not to bench out of habit
elfin kettle
I've seen a video for it
mortal yarrow
||you can do it with either architect or just hitting both cocoons and then using the phial and fast travelling, which is probably the preferred option (i hate architect pogo)||
elfin kettle
You do need the ||architect crest to regenerate uses||
mortal yarrow
not necessarily!
planning on crutching on that mechanic as soon as i get a steel soul save to act 3
versed wagon
I gotchu, give a minute. The second safe spot is funny
|| My bad, after this (left and up) it's the floaty guys section, but I would use this to farm health||
Completely safe on the very corner, up attack to not get knocked out
primal hedge
I still maintain that just putting a goddamn bench here is overall better game design for everyone
versed wagon
You get the one at the start and you'l like it
Honestly, doing the whole Bilewater run from doggo bench to boss is worse than this, maybe it was just training for this
But nobody ever said no to the secret bench
primal hedge
yeah if I didn't know about the secret bench I just would've not done upper Bilewater
elfin kettle
Well that's not spooky at all
primal hedge
congrats
elfin kettle
Ok this seems ||challenging and I have to go out in 20 minutes, I'll fix whatever bullshit I was tricked into causing tomorrow||
versed wagon
|| Welcome to Act 3. Remember, you're here forever ||
elfin kettle
I just realised
Do you think that they were done with ||development around like, 2020 but then went "Well, we could do one more act"|| and this time they didn't even wait ||until the game was released to develop a sequel, they just put it in the game as a continuation?||
versed wagon
|| idk, but Seth is only fight-able in Act 3 and I heard the kid managed to see what his boss fight was like before passing away ||
|| Maybe the fight was moved but if not, Act 3 is at least that old ||
primal hedge
||I presume they could've easily debug-warpped directly to that fight for the kid while they were developing it||
elfin kettle
versed wagon
Okay, first of all: the silk comes from within her
Not looking at the map, unrealistic
elfin kettle
Lol
primal hedge
tbf having portable storage for it makes sense even if she's producing it, given the production takes time
versed wagon
I guess we do get those spools fragments
The first half of the storage is inside, then
primal hedge
sometimes I love the YouTube algorithm: https://youtu.be/l5FnvrEwUlg
elfin kettle
I hate it here
versed wagon
Get your revenge king
|| RIP Bell Beast ||
||Honestly that boss kinda sucked, in the sense the hitboxes felt so small. Sting Shard came in clutch ||
versed wagon
|| Congrats, you've been adopted ||
versed wagon
The craziest thing to drop out of nowhere
elfin kettle
They really did ||infested crossroads|| but the whole game huh?
versed wagon
They really did ||infested crossroads|| but the whole game huh?
And made it worse
|| It's the Bilewater of infested crossroads ||
elfin kettle
Oh fuck, I am not going to ||Bilewater|| now
versed wagon
Cute, you think you have a choice
versed wagon
|| Yeah it really tied the games together, going through there was a core memory ||
elfin kettle
Funnily enough it's also like, ||a lot easier to go around here compare to the surface since it's now fucking hell pup there||
versed wagon
|| IT's not easier, it's just regular ||
elfin kettle
As someone kind of mid at platforming, this whole section ||climbing out of the abyss|| is taking a long time
versed wagon
Great section
mortal yarrow
yippee!
the any% world record route is kinda cursed but somehow fun
high halls with 5 masks, needle 2 and no red tools though......
elfin kettle
That's insane
primal hedge
it is pretty typical for speedruns to have a segment that goes "and now we slow way down to do this bit 10x slower than vanilla because it's still faster overall than getting the 'required' upgrades"
elfin kettle
Oh right, this was a banger conversation in general, but also, ||this 100% confirms it's a sequel I assume||
mortal yarrow
also i am NEVER going through the mist that early EVER again
primal hedge
yep, and there's a later cutscene which confirms it even harder
mortal yarrow
sister splinter skip is nice to know about though, saves a bit of time
versed wagon
high halls with 5 masks, needle 2 and no red tools though......
Needle 2 means 1 oil or 2 oils?
primal hedge
my first thought was the pre-oil upgrade
versed wagon
Yeah I count it but I'm not sure everyone does
primal hedge
what are the in-game terms? Needle, Sharpened Needle, Shining Needle, Hivesteel Needle, Pale Steel Needle?
if nothing else it has to count in a speedrun route
versed wagon
Makes sense, I just never looked into terminology
primal hedge
I guess 1 oil is the natural speedrun choice for HHA anyway, since you have to go through Vaults anyway and that's the one oil you "just" take a detour to grab, without a big multi-task time sink
versed wagon
Needle 3 requires DJ so it's an obvious skip for speedrun
You don't even need DJ for ending 1
And that climb ain't fast
primal hedge
which part of 3 is that? (I assume that's the Gourmand quests, but I don't remember all of them)
versed wagon
Yeah gourmand, at the very least you need DJ for the chef, there's not even enemies to pogo from in there
primal hedge
aaaaah I remember that jump now
versed wagon
I was honestly surprised that DJ wasn't required ||in high halls or upper Cog Works or Cradle or even to get to grandma ||
In my run I decided to not go get it unless I hit an obstacle that needed it, and it never happened
primal hedge
ah, I did almost all of that before DJ casually
||high halls has exactly one side room needing DJ that I went back for later||
versed wagon
Right, yeah
mortal yarrow
elfin kettle
Slowly doing some random stuff around the map, ||how much new shit is there after act 3?||
I keep finding new stuff to kill
mortal yarrow
||a fair bit, but most of what's new is gonna be found in wishes or part of the main quest. definitely still explore and revisit places though!||
elfin kettle
Man, with the ||new ability the hole running through the game from start to finish is so useful||
Actually nevermind, they don't let me
That's bullshit
Well they do, ||but not all the way it has to hook somewhere above me||
Still useful I guess
versed wagon
I wished so hard for it to be a thing
Can't wait for the mod that makes it possible
||Would be nice if i t worked in Far Fields too, I'm sure there's a clear shot from somewhere in the middle to Greymoor||
mortal yarrow
they probably could make it work specifically for that hole, but it'd have the same problem as the far fields airstream that kicks you off to the side after you hit the next screen
versed wagon
Yeah that sucks
mortal yarrow
secret alternate quill :3
cool detail! probably not worth playing without the map for so long though
primal hedge
I could see it coming up for veterans and speedrunners
mortal yarrow
yeah, i picked it up on my speedrun save and just forgot to share it here then
most of the way into the run though, but it'd save a little bit of money early on at the very least
||i wonder if trobbio has spares though, or if what he's written doesn't update in act 3 if you do this||
primal hedge
there's no way he doesn't have spares
mortal yarrow
yeahhh, he would 
mortal yarrow
yeahhhh
versed wagon
yeah...
snow wigeon
Good lord it feels nice to be able to dash again
elfin kettle
Good luck!
versed wagon
Doable
snow wigeon
primal hedge
I like how everyone agreed SHAW was the meme line, not HEKALE or ADEELIN or whatever the others are
primal hedge
I remember thinking "she hasn't said it yet" during act 1 but then completely forgot to keep checking after the sheer size of the game overwhelmed me
versed wagon
There's not GIT GUD either 
primal hedge
pretty sure her Skills just don't have a voice line when you trigger them? (which tbf is likely the right call now that they're player moves)
versed wagon
With one of them being mobility, it would grow old quickly
primal hedge
I meant the white category of equippable where you can only choose 1 out of ||6|| at a time, but I guess it's true that HK 1 attack was more like clawline than silkspear
versed wagon
Yeah from what I remember of fighting Hornet in HK, the "canon" attacks are Clawline, Stitches, Thorns, Hunter crest of course and the pin-cushion red tool
I don't remember anything else even in Hornet 2 fight or in pantheon
primal hedge
same, iirc the 2nd fight only added the spike trap tool
primal hedge
if this is the situation I think it is
you may need to explore more of the area in general to unlock a shortcut that helps there
primal hedge
yeah that's what I think it is
versed wagon
In Gerymoor all the areas pretty much connect on multiple levels
primal hedge
explore more of the right side of Greymoor and you'll get a way to go up from there eventually
primal hedge
oh, looks like you got really close to what I'm thinking of
(this definitely doesn't require dj)
burnt perch
im trying to get the fabled ingredients for the oil
primal hedge
oh, one of those ingredients does require dj
burnt perch
FUCK!!!!!!
primal hedge
I think it's just the one though
burnt perch
I need all of them..
versed wagon
You'll be glad to have DJ for a second ingredient too
primal hedge
I'm still glad I got that one with minimum movement
versed wagon
Vague hint for DJ: || Go look for it in a place that requires Clawline ||
burnt perch
Thats high halls bro
Ive just backtracked both those bouncy ball areas without finding the path
versed wagon
More than one place requires Clawline
primal hedge
that's not the only area fitting the hint
burnt perch
but its all of the right side of greyzone
versed wagon
Straight up where it is, if wanted: || Climb the mountain ||
burnt perch
which mountain 😭
primal hedge
I think you just haven't found the area yet
versed wagon
Look on the bright side: you haven't found Bilewater yet, either
versed wagon
This should be easy for you, you live here irl
primal hedge
what troll? I was answering a completely different question about Greymoor
burnt perch
sinners road!!!!!!
versed wagon
Make sure to pet the dogs
primal hedge
not puppy
burnt perch
missing brother get
versed wagon
Oh, that guy
I hated that guy for bringing me to Sinner's Road, and then I forgave him for not bringing me to Bile Water
primal hedge
yeah that's the trail he showed earlier
for some reason I remember it from my playthrough as the only(???) tracking wish that kinda required you to have unlocked a certain shortcut first, which luckily I had
burnt perch
theres gonna be an amazing item in sinners road for sure
versed wagon
I remember one at least, but you're gonna have to pet the dogs
versed wagon
I never gave it a chance but I was always intrigued
I think once I git gud I'd equip it for sure
primal hedge
yeah that is not a first playthrough item
burnt perch
my first simple key
The green prince is saved!!!
Just met Styx
am I done here now
burnt perch
i was just thinking theres gotta be some shortcut outta here
versed wagon
SR has three ways in/out and you don't want to take two of them
burnt perch
im in the mist
primal hedge
you know, that might be the best outcome
burnt perch
but im poisoned from the other area...
versed wagon
Forbidden sip
primal hedge
||I think he didn't find the Bilewater bench||
versed wagon
It really was the greatest gift to learn you can get their journal entry, together with the fucking ground worms
versed wagon
||I think he didn't find the Bilewater bench||
|| SR's bench is pretty unmissable, but the trick to it can be||
primal hedge
||yeah I didn't get SR's benchfixed until a late-game revisit, despite specifically looking for it||
burnt perch
am i supposed to be here...
versed wagon
In Mist? Yeah you can go whenever
It's the alternate entrance to Act 2 if you don't want to fight Last Judge
primal hedge
I mean, it's a metroidvania, there are lots of places you're "supposed" to be
you definitely haven't sequence broken
versed wagon
It's funny it doesn't even care about the bells
burnt perch
You can cheat into act 2 wow
versed wagon
Specially since it has a better reward
burnt perch
so its not totally pointless if im already in act 2
primal hedge
I'm pretty sure no area is pointless no matter how early or late you find it
burnt perch
sinners road seems to be
versed wagon
Nah it has one of the best tools in the game
The rancid eggs can be pretty clutch too. But I will admit SR is more of a connective piece than a hub
burnt perch
is the mist a real zone or does it just spawn in something AI generated whenever I go through a screen
primal hedge
do you really want us to answer that
versed wagon
It's the Lost Woods bro
burnt perch
so youre meant to google it
primal hedge
...it's a puzzle you're meant to solve
(I do think it could've used one or two more hints but I almost got it before asking here, got a super vague hint, then figured it out)
burnt perch
what was your hint
primal hedge
that some of the things I tried were on the right track lol
I have no idea what you've tried yet so I don't know how to give a useful hint instead of just telling you the answer
burnt perch
so far ive tried running to the left 8 times
versed wagon
I don't even know how it woork in OoT, did an NPC have the info on how to traverse Lost Woods? Or was it trial and error?
burnt perch
The music is louder when youre at the right tunnel
versed wagon
Oh yeah
Well, it's similar here. You have to find out within each room which exit to take, you're limited to what you have and what's in the room
burnt perch
but the ghost fkers are so annoying that I hate every room
versed wagon
Real
You can always leave, when it puts you back at the start one of the exists should put you back in SR
primal hedge
actually useful hint: ||that starting area is trying to give you a hint||
burnt perch
alright im there
theres a street light
a big dead guy
two small dead guys
four gates
versed wagon
I don't remember this hint but maybe I was blind to it
burnt perch
so did you google it
primal hedge
I think the answer just happened to be one of wcct's go-to moves
versed wagon
I keep telling you guys you gotta put the song in Silksong
primal hedge
I don't remember this hint but maybe I was blind to it
tbc I'm talking about the part where ||as you walk toward the starting area's exit, several butterflies follow you||; that's something I noticed after the vague hint
burnt perch
how tf was i supposed to know that...
versed wagon
I don't remember that in the first room, only in the in-between room
But maybe I didn't pay attention
primal hedge
it also wouldn't surprise me if that doesn't happen the first time and they start doing it later if you don't guess it out on your own
versed wagon
In the end I just tried everything on the very limited stuff that's in the rooms. You only have yourself, the banshees, the obstacles/platforming, the bottomeless mist and || the fireflies ||
And the banshees can't even spawn in the first room of the maze, so something in there has to tell you the way
But yes, apparently I seem to be the rare person that || used on the needolin on everything ||
primal hedge
||I was probably misled by most similar puzzles in games not requiring an interaction with something in the room to learn the correct direction first, usually either you were told a pattern outside or you just look at the room to know where to go, hence when I "tried the butterflies" I was looking for which exit was closest to them, where clusters of different sizes were, etc||
burnt perch
I got so far and fell into the mist ffk these fkn ghosts
versed wagon
||Third game will come around and people will still underestimate whatever dream nail/needolin TC puts in it, mark my words||
I know it will be hard to remember 9 years from now but mark them
primal hedge
yeah, in retrospect I dunno why I underestimated it, I don't think I even made the connection to ||dream nail|| until you said it
versed wagon
|| I said to myself "oh, it's this game's dream nail" when its tutorial shows you it can open a previously impassable door ||
primal hedge
||you say that as if the dream nail opens doors lol||
versed wagon
I even tried it on the Chapel's door, and the skull face in Marrow, and some other places
versed wagon
||you say that as if the dream nail opens doors lol||
|| It has interactions that aren't intuitive or obvious. Nothing about "musical instrument" says "it opens doors" ||
primal hedge
fair
versed wagon
Love them
burnt perch
this guy better give me an oil or dj
versed wagon
Better than both but you'll disagree
elfin kettle
It's really good if you like being aggressive
versed wagon
Storm is pretty good, third best for me
primal hedge
yeah, I never used parry because I am the opposite of aggressive in these games
elfin kettle
Since you don't have to go away and just parry and keep doing damage
versed wagon
Parry always kicks ass, and it's a great "Hit F to avoid damage" button
primal hedge
(I've heard wanderer + parry is a great anti-boss build)
elfin kettle
Not a surprise, wanderer attacks so fast
versed wagon
Also it can literally parry anything axcept maybe || grandma's cutscene attack ||
primal hedge
I also got it pretty late, that's a factor too
versed wagon
I've parried projectiles and all sorts of attacks
Yeah that's part of the issue
But on a second run Phantom is the obviously better choice to get into Act 2
elfin kettle
Honestly, I have been switching to the architect crest sometimes because like, tools are usually better than skills
versed wagon
Better fight and no annoying run to them
primal hedge
if/when I ever do a 2nd run of this I'm going Phantom just because I did TLJ last time lol
burnt perch
oh a bellway with a lift next to it. Thats a good reward too
versed wagon
Yeah that's the bellway
elfin kettle
Oh right, it's one way to get there
versed wagon
Yeah and it drops you right there
On the station
It's a crazy good entrance to the Citadel
primal hedge
Honestly, I have been switching to the architect crest sometimes because like, t...
I might find myself doing this in rando someday, but during my initial playthrough any boss where I tried using tools would quickly lead to me running low on shell shards; more tools at the same time would only have worsened that
versed wagon
TLJ has the cinematic entrance, that's about it
elfin kettle
RIght now I try to keep myself topped with 20 shard packs
burnt perch
GRAND BELLWAY
primal hedge
I think I had to go on rosary farming runs twice just to get more shell shards for a harder boss where I really needed the tools
elfin kettle
Same, but also this game keep kicking my ass
versed wagon
Yeah I really put no value on the shard packs at first but they're goated
primal hedge
yeah for me one of those was the final final no kidding final this time boss
burnt perch
i need passive tools I literally never use them
versed wagon
Easily worth buying 5 or 6 every time you go by a shop with them
elfin kettle
The caltrops are like, half passive
primal hedge
you have >300 rosaries every time you go by a shop?
elfin kettle
You put them down and they do their work
You do have to do a wish ||in SR|| to get them though
Which is a bit annoying
versed wagon
you have >300 rosaries every time you go by a shop?
Okay not that often, but I definitely tried to always have a handful of them in the late game
primal hedge
I did not expect that wish to be such a massive win for me long term
versed wagon
Tho I completely stopped using tools unless it was a serious run at a boss, otherwise it was a waste
elfin kettle
It's easly my most used tool
primal hedge
yeah, the only fights where I need tools, I need enough I cannot afford to waste them
burnt perch
This great taste of pharloom quest is too much of a hassle.. there must be an easier oil....
versed wagon
No
elfin kettle
Well yes
versed wagon
The third oil is in Act 3 only
elfin kettle
In a sense
primal hedge
you probably already got the only "easy" oil
versed wagon
Yeah I think Artiks has that one already
burnt perch
I dont have a single oil to my name
versed wagon
Oilless
primal hedge
I'd usually force myself to save the tools for the last wave/phase, which is what kept the consumption manageable, since once again my skill is a sine wave and merely getting to the last phase is a decent indicator of my odds of surviving that phase
burnt perch
Im fighting these HARDCORE BOSSES with lvl 2 nail
elfin kettle
You have to go past ||the slab for double jump, if he was there now he can't have gotten that oil||
versed wagon
The easiest oil you can see through a window or something in the Citadel, you'll just have to find how to get into the store through the back
primal hedge
yeah level 2 nail means he got it already
versed wagon
Literally robbing the place, and I felt no shame
burnt perch
yeah level 2 nail means he got it already
you get level 2 nail after widow king
versed wagon
Yeah he's starting the count at 1
versed wagon
Didn't you beat the cogwork dancers already?
burnt perch
ye
primal hedge
that'd do it
burnt perch
the other 3 are songs
primal hedge
the "easy" oil is in the right half of the citadel
primal hedge
whats the big icon in the middle
are you asking about the gourmand quest marker?
elfin kettle
Big icon it's the other oil
burnt perch
aha
versed wagon
You want to go through the donut from west to east
elfin kettle
I still have no idea where the 3rd oil is btw, still toiling away in this hellish act
primal hedge
yeah I would be impressed if you found that without looking anything up
versed wagon
You haven't found it because your priorities are wrong
elfin kettle
I mean I am not looking anything up
versed wagon
First thing I did in Act 3 was check who was okay and who wasn't
primal hedge
I ran into what feels like half a dozen places where this thread had to tell me something I never would've found on my own
elfin kettle
I did check on a few npcs, some I'll do when I get there
burnt perch
why are there suddenly silk eating spiders where there didnt use to be
primal hedge
in act 3 ||I would've checked on more NPCs if my fast travel hadn't been taken from me, and I sucked at the fight enough to decide to put it off for later||
primal hedge
||I mistakenly assumed I'd be able to enter it from any other bellway||
primal hedge
||lol||
versed wagon
I only kept at it because it was like Cogwork Dancers, you know? You die to it and think to yourself "I must be stupid"
elfin kettle
why are there suddenly silk eating spiders where there didnt use to be
Those are kind of random if they appear or not
I noticed some mosquitos in some other bullshit places also sometimes just don't appear
primal hedge
I assumed the silk stealers had a random chance of showing up in any citadel fight, but I don't know the actual rules
versed wagon
I never saw them until I went to High Halls, then yeah they'd randomly show up in places
elfin kettle
I don't think it's every fight, they have specific spawn points
versed wagon
I don't have proof but I think High Halls unlocks that
elfin kettle
Maybe there is a trigger somewhere
versed wagon
Which would make it a strong candidate for "do it last"
elfin kettle
IDK maybe defeating the Cogwork dancers
primal hedge
I wasn't conscious of them until I started farming the Grand Reeds, so I have no idea when they started showing up
versed wagon
They're a very particular and annoying enemy
When you meet them for the first time you never forget them
primal hedge
more like when you get hit by that silk spear for the first time
versed wagon
They're a different kind of aspid
primal hedge
I think the first few times I just kinda killed them before that became an issue
elfin kettle
They were in the zone where I farmed a bunch so I got used to them enough that I don't think they are especially annoying
versed wagon
Well yeah, I saw they were draining silk and I immdiately ignored everything to kill them
I didn't even see their spear attack until my second playthrough
primal hedge
huh
versed wagon
Regardless, I'm confident there's no way to come across them and forget about them
primal hedge
I guess that's another "aggressive playstyle" thing
when I see a new enemy mixed with familiar enemies, I usually prioritize the enemies I already know how to kill without taking damage, so I can focus on figuring out the new guy's patterns in isolation
versed wagon
Well you must have clawline to get to high halls, and its best use by far is for targetted assasinations
primal hedge
like in my case seeing the big spear attack would've been an immediate conscious goal; if I break it before it does anything then I have no idea what the risks are next time
primal hedge
Well you must have clawline to get to high halls, and its best use by far is for...
well maybe if you have max needle super early; in practice anything I'd want to assassinate would require half a dozen clawlines
primal hedge
thorns being the barbed whatever tool?
primal hedge
oh Silk Storm
versed wagon
That
primal hedge
what does that have to do with thorns lol
versed wagon
I keep confusing its name
primal hedge
Orb of Death
versed wagon
Thread Storm, also known as Thorm
primal hedge
ooooh
versed wagon
I think my brain just fuses the words
primal hedge
oh it actually is Thread Storm, why did I think it was Silk Storm
burnt perch
reaper feels a bit slow for this nail bouncing
primal hedge
I think that's part of the reason it makes pogos easier
versed wagon
I only switched back to Hunter late in Act 3 but it's my preferred one for sure
primal hedge
I was fully locked in to reaper by then
forcing myself to use different crests/skills/tools will absolutely be a thing on replays or randos
versed wagon
The extra damage really pays off for itself, even if it's only for a few hits before it resets
primal hedge
before what resets?
versed wagon
The extra damage
burnt perch
dunno if im doing this shit for the oil but it feels worse than path of pain lol
versed wagon
Cogwork?
burnt perch
yes bouncing on cogs moving up
versed wagon
Yeah takes some getting used to
At least landing on the cogs doesn't do 2 damage anymore
The non-moving ones
primal hedge
the difference is I actually completed cogwork core and don't even feel it's missing shortcuts/benches
(the actual path of pain silksong equivalent is much later)
primal hedge
well, it's only that generous in the very middle part that blocks several other areas, the top part / cogwork-only gauntlet is plenty long
burnt perch
I thought I was gonna get an oil but instead im in a new zone called whispering halls....
versed wagon
Vault? Vault is both important and how you'll get to the store that has the oil
burnt perch
thats gonna have to be another day...
still havent upgraded hp once
are there only two life upgrades in this game..
primal hedge
no, max is 10 masks
primal hedge
I think I even found my 8th before act 3
burnt perch
How do I still have 5
versed wagon
Didn't lick enough walls
primal hedge
I think most of the mask shards tend to be in act 2 anyway, or at least in areas you're unlikely to find before act 2
versed wagon
I think all areas have at least one shard or spool
primal hedge
*or at least in subareas
versed wagon
I'm doing the 100% in under 30h and there's something to pick up everywhere, that's for sure
burnt perch
spool i have upgraded twice
versed wagon
It goes up to whatever is the double of the original
I never counted the bands that it takes to do one heal
But I know skills cost 4 or 5
primal hedge
I thought it was a full "spool" to do the heal
versed wagon
Well what you find are spoll fragments and two make a whole
primal hedge
uh
versed wagon
So I don't know if we're making multiple spools or if there's just the one
primal hedge
whatever the term is for the amount of silk you start out with, and have post-death, and have that little stopper on the UI for after you get spool upgrades
versed wagon
Yeah
The heal amount. Two heals is the maximum upgrade
The tool that gives a little extra capacity seems to be worth one skill
snow wigeon
My fiancée got silksong and is having fun with it, but she's finding the lack of direction frustrating too. Not knowing where to go. That wasn't improved on from hollow knight I guess 
elfin kettle
I mean it was improved
You do have an icon on the map where you are supposed to reach
You have no idea how to get there at all
But in HK you didn't even have that until much later
primal hedge
it's definitely on the lower end of the metroidvania spectrum in terms of guidance, by design
(I still haven't seen a single other metroidvania copy HK's map system)
in fact HK and Silksong are borderline identical on e.g. what guidance you start with ("go down I guess" vs "go up I guess"), and when they do give you a few clear objective markers, and how semi-useful those markers are
if you're interested in metroidvanias with clearer directions, that's a conversation we could have
snow wigeon
(i was localization testing another metroidvania for months, and it was similarly annoying map-wise)
primal hedge
one I might know or hasn't come out yet?
primal hedge
huh, never heard of it
on the one hand I wish it was possible to play them all, but if it was I probably wouldn't have so many god-tier ones to choose from
snow wigeon
It did get revealed at last year's game awards
primal hedge
as if I watch those :P
snow wigeon
But I think Okami 2 amongst many others overshadowed it
Also it had kinda an episode based on it in that amazon prime "secret level" series
primal hedge
fair, I never watched that
snow wigeon
But yeah it's not a standout example by any means, I just spent like 4 months playing for various testing purposes so it's burned into my mind
Definitely get it only on a sale, if anything
mortal yarrow
yoo???
elfin kettle
Act 3 ||flea dodge is the bane of my existence||
versed wagon
Act 3 ||flea dodge is the bane of my existence||
The real final boss
versed wagon
Second patch/beta https://steamcommunity.com/app/1030300/discussions/0/546746634645557243/
It's all fixes and stuff, no nerfs. I experienced a few of these myself
elfin kettle
Ok ||these crows are starting to piss me off||
primal hedge
I think Silksong might've actually made me better at Hollow Knight
I was talking to someone else about Failed Champion and ended up booting up the game to try it myself
and within half an hour later I've done this
elfin kettle
lol
versed wagon
I'm experience the short run to TLJ thanks to doing this fight later
primal hedge
is Wcct laughing because I didn't do FC Radiant
versed wagon
No just laughing at how easy playing HK must seem now, I have yet to give that a try
elfin kettle
I mean ascended is still what, 4 damage per hit
versed wagon
After I murder TLJ I'll do one pantheon run
primal hedge
4 damage per direct hit from the guy, but shockwaves and rocks were "just" 2 damage
this save had only 8 masks for some reason so 4 was half my health
you know I just realized that Silksong maxes out at 10 masks while HK maxed at 9 (ignoring charms + tools + lifeblood shenanigans)
elfin kettle
It's probably because they expect you to use the extra hit tool
So it still goes to an odd number
versed wagon
As I re-fighting TLJ, I realise this boss might be intended to teach you Hornet's fighting style. It really benefits from get in-hit-get out, clawline destroyed him
elfin kettle
Which makes sense for a game where everything does 2 masks
primal hedge
No just laughing at how easy playing HK must seem now, I have yet to give that a...
I was kinda shocked at how fast the Knight swings
I didn't want to do OP builds during Silksong anyway but now I really don't want to try Wanderer's crest because it feels like it'd be cheating
elfin kettle
Hunter's crest is also pretty strong now that I've used it a bit
The diagonal pogo is still aids though
primal hedge
is there a NG+? I didn't even think to check, I was so dead when I finished 100%
versed wagon
I just tried to heal in mid air
primal hedge
gotta run into a corner and hide like the bug you are
versed wagon
What is this, a crossover episode?
elfin kettle
The hard part is finding your character
primal hedge
I didn't do the actual Hornet fight but I imagine it feels very underpowered compared to Silksong Hornet
versed wagon
To think she was fighting us with a handicap back then
primal hedge
Silksong Hornet: "I lost all my strength and tools when they captured me."
also Silksong Hornet: "hang on let me cover the arena in poison spikes, cast silk nuke and spam grab attacks from halfway across the arena"
versed wagon
I really miss dash-attack
primal hedge
"wait I forgot my personal army of attack drones"
versed wagon
It's really the strongest thing in Silksong
primal hedge
I guess to be fair, the Knight also has to hit her more than 10 times in the first game
versed wagon
We were not doing double damage...
primal hedge
I wonder if all the power levels in Hallownest were just weaker because it's been decaying for so much longer
does The Radiance get weaker as centuries go on with only zombies to obey it
versed wagon
Now I'm thinking that I'd like to play as the Knight in Pharloom and as Hornet in Hallownest, it would be interesting runs
versed wagon
does The Radiance get weaker as centuries go on with only zombies to obey it
We know for sure Pure Vessel got weaker
primal hedge
I mean
that's the entire plot lol, bit of a special case
it's even possible Radiance got stronger by overpowering the poor guy
my guess is it got weaker with no real worshippers but I can't think of any proper evidence for that
elfin kettle
I have one
primal hedge
apparently Pale King couldn't just beat it up but their power levels could've easily declined in tandem as they fought each other until Grimm showed up to slurp both
elfin kettle
If it was of constant strenght the whole time, ||the infection wouldn't have progressed slowly once she cracked her prison, that's kind of an indication that she was recovering after her imprisonment.||
Wether or not she is back ||at full strenght when we fight her it's arguable, the only argument I have to say "no" is the presence of absolute radiance in the pantheon which is an idealised version of the Radiance||
primal hedge
||true, the whole premise of dream bosses implies these critters either declined from a peak, or never achieved their full potential in the first place, and a Godhome-only version of a dream-only boss like Rad still counts||
versed wagon
I can't believe I used to live in a 1-mask-of-damage world
primal hedge
act 1 was pretty long tbf
versed wagon
||true, the whole premise of dream bosses implies these critters either declined...
Except False Knight, which is probably just his own dream version
primal hedge
that's the guy I had in mind with "never achieved their full potential in the first place"
now that I've conveniently refought both, I know FC is "just" FK but faster with more falling rocks; I think we can file that under "potential"
versed wagon
I wonder how Marmu feels about his fight just being ||a minigame || in Silksong
mortal yarrow
primal hedge
whoa
primal hedge
are you sure you're not a speedrunner
versed wagon
What is this, the sequel crossover episode?
Died to Hornet 2, fitting
I was low health after Master Sly
versed wagon
Act 3 spoilers I think || What's the name of the item that shows completion %, and where was that again?||
primal hedge
Act 3 spoilers I think || What's the name of the item that shows completion %, a...
||Farsight||, and it's in ||The Abyss||, specifically ||iirc the far bottom right area, where you fall down to get silk soar and soar back up, then go right instead of backtracking left||
versed wagon
First-tried the gourmand delivery
versed wagon
The ideal map
primal hedge
||no Verdania?||
versed wagon
I'm not in Act 3 bro
I realised I can't go or the Cursed achievement is gonna be way too hard
I got my second oil and I have all my mobility, I think I can go for it
snow wigeon
(fiancée is having trouble beating the miniboss area with multiple ||skull ants, including a flying one?||. I am not playing silksong yet but I wanna help her. Any tips? She has ||dash|| already)
primal hedge
doesn't ring a bell, my memory was all of those enemies became manageable after dash
snow wigeon
A place where there's multiple of these
versed wagon
Must be a gauntlet/arena
Unfortunately those are tests of endurance/skill. I can only recommend hit-and-run tactics, don't over commit, and use your tools. Red tools do a lot more damage than you think.
Otherwise, come back later
Oh, if she doesn't know tell her about dash-attack. Hitting attack while dashing launches you into a charge-attack. IT's great to land a hit then get away. That and pogo are your best friends in the early game
burnt perch
sounds like the cellar for the food quest
primal hedge
I think that's far later than where they are
burnt perch
today im getting oil and double jump btw
versed wagon
Get your bag king
elfin kettle
(fiancée is having trouble beating the miniboss area with multiple ||skull ants,...
The tips for that area is go somewhere else.
It's very optional
It's one of those areas that you can stumble into and are clearly pretty difficult, but it shouldn't be on the critical path so you can tackle it when you are comfortable with its difficulty compared to your own strenght
You can do it early but it's a big challenge to do it
burnt perch
Boom oil
burnt perch
anyone else in mount fay rn
versed wagon
How's the weather?
burnt perch
nice breeze
mfw i think im about to fight a boss but I get the faydown cloak
the 2nd jump is kinda short
versed wagon
I'm going over the map and things I have and don't have. One of the things I've finally counted is, there's 5 mask shards locket to Act 3. So just tenough to rob you of two health
burnt perch
FIRST HEALTH UPGRADE
versed wagon
Act 3 shards: || There's three that require Silk Soar: The one in Blasted Steps the entrance to Pharloom, one with Sprintmaster, and one in the ice caves. Plus two from wish rewards ||
Okay, time to go for the cursed ending
burnt perch
Can I float without using dj first
burnt perch
think im done with mount fay
versed wagon
You'll be back, probably
I don't know there's a single biome you go in and out only once.
That's a slog of a fight
versed wagon
Regarding the Silkshot three variants: || one fires a single shot, one fires three in an arc like an aspid, and one is a railgun ||. You can guess which one I made
Act 3 time. I wonder how much stuff I missed
|| Why is the Cradle escape gauntlet the hardest fight in the game? ||
versed wagon
Fighting the hardest boss for my 3rd oil
elfin kettle
Act 3 question: ||Where do you guys farm in this hellhole?||
versed wagon
|| Do you have the farming tools? ||
elfin kettle
lol
versed wagon
Real question
elfin kettle
If you mean the ||extra rosaries per kill thing||, I have that
I also have the ||nest installed||
||Fuck those crows||
Ok I got to recover stuff from it and the output was more susbstantial than I hoped, thanks for the tip
versed wagon
|| The nest is great, honestly the best source of income||
||But yeah in the end just going around the Citadel is best, specially if you've cleaned up the tumors ||
snow wigeon
versed wagon
I'm at 89%, damn
Expected it to be higher with only Act 3 stuff missing, but I'm at 14h15m so we're more than good
primal hedge
have you figured out if it’s even possible to be at 90% before act 3
snow wigeon
Instagram
versed wagon
versed wagon
have you figured out if it’s even possible to be at 90% before act 3
I ended up at 89% after picking up 2 of the 5 shards. I'm missing one skill, 4 red tools, 3 blue tools. I'll see where I'm at after that.
Also I have every Crest but Atla won't give me the last upgrade, so that must be gated behind plot
primal hedge
I guess that would explain why the last upgrade breaks the pattern of every two crests
versed wagon
I wonder if ||the flower|| counts as changing your nature
primal hedge
||it would be cool if that's the exact point where it unlocks; worth checking at the start of act 3 to find out||
versed wagon
I have every spool, good to know that's all before Act 3
versed wagon
Seth is kicking my ass
primal hedge
||I am never competing with Seth's minigame scores ||
versed wagon
Really liking this Silkshot
elfin kettle
I like the original variant a lot
But I am a fun of that rail gun style or weapon
In general
versed wagon
I ended up at 89% after picking up 2 of the 5 shards. I'm missing one skill, 4 r...
99% after picking up 3 shards, one skill and 7 tools. I'm thinking only a full mask counts as a 1%, and the other 1% would be || the flower ||.
Atla still won't talk to me, I wonder if I bugged it somehow
Oh shit, ||maybe she wants me to max-locket all the crests?||
Yep, || After using 7 lockets I randomly picked up, she gave me the final upgrade, but I'm 99% and she won't give me the option to bind her. So, I guess you need all lockets for 100% ||
I'm so fucked
versed wagon
Yep, || After using 7 lockets I randomly picked up, she gave me the final upgrad...
Confirmed, and confirmed that's the last 1% if there was any doubt
30h is very generous
Only both Steelsouls left, which I can't even picture myself doing
primal hedge
yeah, I imagine the achievements are mostly to encourage people to try it at all, rather than actually be gated on skill
elfin kettle
I mean you can always quit to start if you are ever at one mask
But it'll be pretty time consuming regardless without a Goldhome style mode to pratice bosses
versed wagon
Who cares about bosses, Bilewater is the run killer
elfin kettle
Well to be fair, you can put it off until basically the end of the game
primal hedge
steel soul levels of consistency is definitely beyond me
elfin kettle
And the same applies, if you are ever at risk you can quit to start
primal hedge
even if it sounded like fun, which it does not
versed wagon
The ideal map
I very much tried, but it is needed for 100%
It's not needed for the basic Steelsoul one tho
versed wagon
I need mod support first
I can't believe it didn't launch with it
Why does TC hate the community
ivory ferry
granite kindle
I’m loving silksong but major spoilers ahead ||act 3 is a chore. Enemies who can steal silk on hit, and the flea festival for the 3rd pale oil is rng and the bosses are fun but the run backs or enemie gauntlets before being able to fight them? I feel like if you beat the enemy gauntlet before a boss you shouldn’t have to redo the entire gauntlet just for another attempt. Looking at skarsingger||
primal hedge
Groal my behated
granite kindle
Combat feels fantastic, fast paced when needed and the just right amount of punishment.
granite kindle
Groal my behated
I struggled with him mostly just for the run back. But one other boss ||skarsingger just for the gauntlet before the fight||
primal hedge
||Karmelita's was fine for me, probably because the enemy "gauntlet" is only two waves I think? when I was grinding her boss fight I found that there was no middle ground between me quickly passing the regular enemies with full health, and nearly or actually dying to the regular enemies because my head was no longer in the game||
granite kindle
||Karmelita's was fine for me, probably because the enemy "gauntlet" is only two...
||It’s 3. Most of my deaths come from second or third phase just because of her throwing rings. Because of the hit once back off play style I’m trying my best to not pull out architect crest for this||
primal hedge
||I guess it's hard to tell because iirc the non-elite guards does a bit of trickling in instead of being unambiguously separate waves, but in my mind it's just "red ant enemies I've seen before" and "these new Last Claw guys" then boss||
granite kindle
||I must be killing them first few fast enough because I always have to wait for them to enter||
||i just wish as they ease you into act 3 they put bosses that make you hit once then wait because every other boss I was able to get 2-3 hits in before my next opening, been using reaper,wanders and hunters for most fights||
versed wagon
|| Everything in Karmelita's gauntlet dies in 2-4 hits so I didn't care, that shit gets done flawlessly. The Coral gauntlet at least you only have to do once then you get the shotcut ||
|| Groal for sure sucks, the enemies in that gauntlet are all just so annoying. If you close in you get hit, and they run away so fast it's such a slog ||
granite kindle
During frustration breaks I’ve been working on 100% completing hollow knight. So some of my hollow knight tendencies sometimes come out due to hollow knight having a few more openings and no gauntlets as I start each boss more passively and not as Agro.
primal hedge
|| Groal for sure sucks, the enemies in that gauntlet are all just so annoying. ...
||I had little trouble with the individual enemies once I'd done it a few times, it's just the whole thing is so goddamn long, including the approach (especially given how likely it is you won't know about the secret bench)||
versed wagon
Can't think of any other gauntlets before bosses that stand out in my mind. || There's of course the High Halls one, and the super annoying one in Docks ||
granite kindle
||I had little trouble with the individual enemies once I'd done it a few times,...
||It’s during 2nd to third phase I lose patience and make more mistakes ||
Most of my deaths have been from me being inpatient or not knowing attacks
So it’s all on my end
versed wagon
|| I feel the player's worst enemy in this is HK tendencies/mentality. There's no boss you can just tank, and I can't think of a boss with a quick kill either. Even bosses where you can land a good 5 buzzsaws or something, you're just speed up to phase 2 or 3 ||
I was replaying Pantheon yesterday and I was amazed at how much you can get away with despite playing recklessly
Silksong demands more for sure, though I don't know if that counts as harder or different hardness
primal hedge
it's probably for the best that I did not attempt to replay HK before this
granite kindle
I was replaying Pantheon yesterday and I was amazed at how much you can get away...
Yeah I’m practicing patience in hollow knight so I’m purposely making sure to get hit less. Heck even using overcharmed to replicate the damage. It’s helped me. So far I’ve beaten 3 bosses on radiant.
primal hedge
for someone like me specifically, Silksong absolutely is harder, because I can do everything these games ask (up to pure vessel) but I'll never be able to do them consistently, by the standards of most people who play these games
and that's exactly why no bench before Groal becomes the single weakest part of the whole experience; some bosses were harder, but those harder bosses were usually more respectful of my time and therefore more fun, e.g. didn't force me to repeat anything besides phase 1, or dream bosses let me go right back in without even losing tools, etc
versed wagon
I'm really grateful to || First Sinner and Shakra || fights for breaking several mental barriers
primal hedge
tbc I can definitely see why for a different player with different natural strengths and weaknesses, Silksong might be merely different and not clearly harder
versed wagon
for someone like me specifically, Silksong absolutely is harder, because I can d...
|| Did you find the massive silk objects above Groal, right before the entrance to his arena? ||
It basically resets any mistakes you could've done in the runnup, though you still gotta do the runnup of course
primal hedge
I did not (until later when it no longer mattered 
), but in practice I got full silk from the coccoon every time so it wouldn't have made a difference
versed wagon
Right, that was a great choice on them from retrieving the cocoon
granite kindle
||I had luckily explored petrified ducks so I had the charm before going back to get true ending ||
versed wagon
Also, while those long runnups stand out firmly in my mind for the first playthrough, on the second I really didn't care, which I don't know what it says about them
granite kindle
Well I’m back home more ||skarsingger attempts ||
versed wagon
The pre-boss gauntlets did bother me tho, they still were in the "Can we get on with it already?" realm
granite kindle
Multi binder, druids eye. helping a lot. Incase I happen to get hit.
primal hedge
Also, while those long runnups stand out firmly in my mind for the first playthr...
for me at least, it just says these things are "only" a first playthrough problem, but most people only play a game once or less, hence the scare quotes
there's a reason steel soul is not unlocked until you beat the game once
versed wagon
The real issue with replaying is how fucking long you go without dash, specially considering how foundational it is for combat
Tomorrow I might time how long it takes me at a fast but not reckless pace to get it in HK vs SS, but it's gotta be significant
granite kindle
there's a reason steel soul is not unlocked until you beat the game once
If you do up down up down left right left right in extras you can get it early
Finally beat them. No red tools in the boss fight only for gauntlet
versed wagon
Hollow Knight, time from start of new file to getting Dash: 15m real time and on file.
Let's say you don't beeline for it, actually free Sly and Zote maybe do some shopping and optional rooms in Crossroads/Greenpath, maybe +10m
Silksong, time from start of new file to Dash: 27m irl and on file.
This was a Silk Spear -> Bell Beast -> Dash beeline. This one of course has a lot more side stuff I ignored.
primal hedge
do you also do jump + diagonal pogo to try and speed up horizontal movement
versed wagon
A little bit, on long flat stretches
It's gonna be fun watching early game in speedruns
The good thing about SS tho, after you get Dash I feel like I'm good. DJ is nice for an extra dodge possibility, but Dash, tools and some Clawline uses are 95% of combat for me
After Dash, getting boomerang or cleats is probably the next combat goal, or at least those are the S-tier Act 1 red tools I can think of
Oh and Thread Storm
But overall, you get Dash and you're not missing much
elfin kettle
I did do the hard platforming challenge earlier (and yes I did ||cheat it with regenerating blue health||)
versed wagon
Which one?
elfin kettle
up ||on top of the cradle||
versed wagon
Thought so but I wasn't sure
|| I didn't go there until I was doing the mushroom wish because I forgot about the escape tunnel. It's definitely the Path of Pain of SS but extremely short and much more forgiving ||
elfin kettle
Also a lot less varied, I don't think there is much equivalency
I expect something more akin to that to get put in the game at a later date
versed wagon
|| It's only equivalent because it's the hardest platforming and it's late game ||
For now at least yeah
versed wagon
You really don't appreciate balloon until you don't have it anymore...
versed wagon
Savage Beastfly is such a fat bastard
WTF Garmond and Zaza can help you against Moorwing?
primal hedge
apparently there's a wide range of Moorwing experiences
versed wagon
And it's not how you get G&Z's journal entry either
primal hedge
iirc when I was first getting to Greymoor someone mentioned having a super early Moorwing fight with Garmond help, and none of that happened to me so I was very confused
versed wagon
Well I talked to him two screens ago, for the first time, and he was just there waiting for me offering help 2 screens after
primal hedge
yeah in retrospect I'm pretty sure G&Z are a random ally, like ||Second Sentinel|| later on
versed wagon
So it looks like there's no requirement besides that
primal hedge
the Moorwing fight probably qualifies as a possible location just because it's out in the open where regular enemies would otherwise spawn
versed wagon
There's two entrances to Moorwing's room/east Bellheart and he's in only one of them tho
versed wagon
the Moorwing fight probably qualifies as a possible location just because it's o...
No you have to talk to him and accept his help
He doens't show up on his own
There was a dialogue box and a selection
primal hedge
no yeah there's that prereq before he randomly shows up
versed wagon
Ah okay
primal hedge
but I did talk to him right away and he did not show up for my late act 2 Moorwing fight
versed wagon
No, there's a second talking.
primal hedge
like, pressing talk twice? pretty sure I did
versed wagon
No
primal hedge
and G&Z did show up for a bunch of random fights for me
versed wagon
He's in his little room i nthe Greymoor tower, right?
primal hedge
yes?
versed wagon
That's the first time you see him, and you can talk to him there.
Two rooms after, in the room that's also the exit of Reaper crest and the room before Moorwing, he showed up on the exit to Moorwing, just standing there
I talked to him, and he gave me the option to help or not help
versed wagon
I do think talking to him in his starting little room is a prereq, but I didn't even bench or anything and two rooms later he was there
One sec
That's what really surprised me. Exited his room, went up, left, down through the room on my way to Moorwing and he was there again
primal hedge
I wonder what else triggers Moorwing, or if it's actually random/time-based
does Shakra ever join in fights besides that one in Hunter's March and the act 3 one outside Bellhart? pretty sure those two were both scripted
versed wagon
I think he's just the boss to get into Bellheart
primal hedge
nah, he's easy to just run past and for me showed up way after Bellhart anyway
versed wagon
Because the alternative is to use the only Simple Key you can get before Bellheart on the Wormways door
So you can get to Bellheart from the west
The west alternative is completely inaccesible without that key. You only choic is to go up through Far Fields and Greymoor, so Moorwing is a guaranteed fight
versed wagon
nah, he's easy to just run past and for me showed up way after Bellhart anyway
Well, I didn't check if the door was locked
I'll give you that
(For further imaging, he was just standing there to the right)
primal hedge
hm, I don't think the wormways key door is positioned to block access to shellwood... would have to run around here in-game to be sure
versed wagon
It's what I wanted to do but I had used it in Deep Docks in this run. There's just no way up without Wormways open
primal hedge
wait a minute
this map says Moorwing spawns in the same room as the flea caravan
is that what happened for you?
versed wagon
versed wagon
is that what happened for you?
Yes
His corpse is still there, even
Same room you fight || Shakra ||
primal hedge
oh duh the hatch above that room is a shortcut opened from above, you're right about wormways
ok then I got moorwing in a totally different room probably because my fleas were there already
versed wagon
That's probably right
primal hedge
pretty sure it was the room between the two towers
and that I ran into it coming out of the bellway
versed wagon
Yeah in my first playthrough since I did the Wormways doo, I fought him somewhere else
primal hedge
while I spent my first key on deep docks
versed wagon
The flat area right outside the Greymoor station, I think
primal hedge
yep that's the spot I'm talking about
versed wagon
In the future I'm definitely saving that key
I mean, this fight was easy with G&Z, and maybe I can just run past (and also there's the Caravan)
primal hedge
iirc the guy who captures you for the slab also spawned there, before I realized he'd left
versed wagon
But Deep Docks door has one red tool if you open it in Act 1, that's it. Wormways gives a flea, a memory locket, a much better red tool that gives HP (huge in Steelsoul, I want it), a yellow tool for rosaries that I have to find out what it does, and then access to Shellwood
primal hedge
yeah in retrospect deep docks key is pointless until clawline lets you at least explore the whole area
versed wagon
Behind the clawline door down there, there's just a flea and a spool fragment
||But you also need to go through there for the bottom half of Deep Docks, the fire duo boss and the late game/Act 3||
||So since it can wait anyway,|| easily a better use in Wormways
primal hedge
||I'm still curious if act 3 has a failsafe for "the player never found the last simple key" or if it just says "lol git gud"||
I think you're right that on any non-first playthrough, Wormways door is the clear winner for first simple key use
and deep docks probably the last key use
if money matters, 2nd key goes to the rosary vault, but depending on the goals for that playthrough maybe you don't even care about the other key uses
versed wagon
I don't know why I went for Wormways on my first playthrough, I think I forgot about the Deep Docks door but also I wanted to get west of the Chapel from the beginning of the game
versed wagon
if money matters, 2nd key goes to the rosary vault, but depending on the goals f...
Aside from rosaries, there's also a red tool in there, so it's necessary for 100%.
primal hedge
in my case I found the wormways door much later than deep docks, so I mostly chose to tie-break in favor of the earlier and at the time what felt like the more central and interconnected area
oh right the rosary gun
versed wagon
The fourth use of the key though, absolutely not necessary
primal hedge
well, ||Verdania|| might matter for some goals, but yeah it depends
versed wagon
There's nothing for 100% in there
It matters for one memento tho, yes
And journal, so two mementos
primal hedge
whenever I play this again I'll probably consider full journal and/or more mementos as a goal, and it definitely matters for that
||I assume Seth minigames are one of the mementos so full mementos probably never ||
versed wagon
You can get full journal in whatever file you have right now, if that needs to be said
primal hedge
true, I never checked for sure if that's an option
I just know I wasn't up for it that week
do we know which enemies/journal entries are missable?
versed wagon
|| I only missed G&Z and it didn't count, I got the memento. I assume Shakra is the same. I was missing 50 or so full entries and maybe 30 new ones, and I could find everything. I think they made sure no enemy becomes unavailable. ||
||Memorium helps, and even some stuff I thought would be long gone had exactly one spawning point remaining ||
primal hedge
oh right, did we ever figure out what gives the g&z entry
versed wagon
do we know which enemies/journal entries are missable?
|| Aside from G&Z and Shakra, I haven't seen any other ones.||
Huh, apparently || The dream-areas, if you beat the boss it fully completes all the entries for enemie in that area, since they become unavailable. Yeah, TC definitely made sure you can't be locked our of the Journal memento ||
versed wagon
oh right, did we ever figure out what gives the g&z entry
Can't find anything on what gives you this
Maybe it's just using their help a number of times, apparently Moorwing is not the only case
elfin kettle
I think I might have fucked my ability to get a complete jorunal because of this thing unless there is a 3rd one somewhere
elfin kettle
What happened is that it's the duder ||that is ramming against the gate at the settlement atop Far Fields, but while we were fighting I hit the lever by mistake and then died to it||
And when I went back there he wasn't there anymore
versed wagon
Yeah I did the same thing
I still completed the entry
He must have another spawn I had to look up
elfin kettle
Oh, good to know, the one I killed must either respawn, or there must be one I didn't find yet
primal hedge
He must have another spawn I had to look up
||in act 3 I found one of them guarding a void mass||
versed wagon
There's one here, it kinda rings a bell. It's an area you don't have to revisit for anything else so you wouldn't know unless you check every room
elfin kettle
Thanks, I'll check it out
burnt perch
today I will try to find some new places i can go with dj
its really cool that the add on lava savage beastfly deals 2 damage
versed wagon
You really need Cogfly
burnt perch
resin user...
versed wagon
I don't see you skipping HP upgrades
primal hedge
true, tool damage upgrades are separate
versed wagon
Get back to me on that when you meet Nyleth
burnt perch
Besides I did skip hp upgrades for 20 hours
elfin kettle
Man, I love the ||architect crest|| so much
burnt perch
Are Gleamlights this games lantern?
elfin kettle
It's kind of awesome that I like, swapped pretty consistently between 4 crests
burnt perch
oh its house decor
primal hedge
if I hadn't been constantly at my skill ceiling I might've just left each crest on as I got it instead of immediately switching back
I'll definitely use more/different crests whenever I come back to this
elfin kettle
Oh I'm way past my skill ceiling, I'm stuck on like 4 different bosses at the same time
It's why I had to experiment
primal hedge
for a little while I was seriously considering farming money to buy the hot tub, but by the time I'd gotten 100% I changed my mind
elfin kettle
I had to cheese the ||coral maxi gauntlet with regen health as well, which is why architect, but was also very useful to spam caltrops all over the fucking place at every fucking encounter||
versed wagon
My hosue is decked out, of course it is. What if someone comes over
primal hedge
gotta have a full materium to impress the neighbors
versed wagon
My collection is so much better than relic-bug's and I must tell her at every opportunity
burnt perch
I dont think ive ever read weavenest atla in this chat
elfin kettle
I love those
primal hedge
I spoiler tagged all mentions of it early on
versed wagon
I've never used the full government name
But I've said Atla for sure
Straight up the best
versed wagon
She gives you a free damage upgrade and you call it the worst...
elfin kettle
*if you don't get hit
burnt perch
how do I upgrade SLAYER
versed wagon
No other crests upgrade
primal hedge
did you have to make it sound weird
versed wagon
And more open slots
burnt perch
so is hunter just better than reaper now
versed wagon
It's still the same movement
primal hedge
I'm pretty sure that's still situational and personal preference
versed wagon
But you do more damage the more hits you land without being hit yourself
I don't know how much bit it definitely save multiple hits on medium to big enemies
primal hedge
personally I stuck with reaper for the whole game after I got it, that fit me the best, especially for first playthrough when I was barely winning fights and needed the easier pogos; most of the others felt like they had advantages that would only matter for parts that I didn't need help with
versed wagon
Small ones, it's hard to gauge, most of them are 1HKO
burnt perch
I heard wandered is nuts but I havent found it
versed wagon
It's The Knight's moveset
elfin kettle
Wanderer is good because it attacks real fast, but also, you lose one red tool slot
versed wagon
It's behind a big door
elfin kettle
So it depends how much you value tools
primal hedge
I mostly hear people talking about wanderer in the context of cheese builds, which is not my thing personally (I do want to win fights but not that way lol)
versed wagon
Is Wanderer also two blues and two yellows?
burnt perch
So it depends how much you value tools
zero...
elfin kettle
3 blues
versed wagon
Huh
primal hedge
it sounds like wanderer crest with parry skill is emerging as the aggressive boss speedkill build
elfin kettle
No wait
3 yellows
2 blues
Which kind of sucks since yellow tools are largely exploration tools
But it makes up for it with the absurd attack speed so it's a bit like it had an attack speed tool that doesn't exist in it
versed wagon
I wouldn't remove it from the game but I just think it's a shame to play as Hornet and want to go back to being the Knight
elfin kettle
It is its onwn flavour
primal hedge
yeah, it's great as an option, definitely good that it's not the default
if we get a Godhome equivalent I'll likely experiment more
elfin kettle
The insane one is the beast, which I don't know if it's terrible or secretly great.
Literally 0 blue tools sucks sreal hard tho
versed wagon
I hate that the beasts pogo launches you forward a bit then down
elfin kettle
That's not even the most insane part
versed wagon
It is absolutely unuseable for exploration
elfin kettle
It's the heal not healing you
versed wagon
But I'd love a Pantheon challenge for each crest for sure
elfin kettle
But you getting a mask back for each hit you land after using the heal
That is either insanely strong or hot garbage and I can't tell which
iron minnow
Tumblr
versed wagon
She doesn't say that
primal hedge
I kept waiting for her to say it
I think one of the enemies did and part of me went "that's not your line"
elfin kettle
They are keeping their one Shaw they are allowed to say per new FTC regulation for the ending of the DLC
versed wagon
I learned yesterday that the taunt's voiceline changes if you equip || Shakra's|| tool (||Hornet says POSHANKA||), and one other case I forgot
elfin kettle
That's awesome
primal hedge
taunt?
elfin kettle
She even bangs the rings
versed wagon
He doesn't know about taunt 