Zelda Legend of Link The Legend of

[civic hawk]

[visual folio]

you're fine

I'm annoyed that I evidently missed them several hours ago

and I think that means several of my map pins could've never been pins at all

[civic hawk]

as in you could've gotten them earlier?

[visual folio]

yeah

[civic hawk]

it's fiine you can get them anytime there's no requirement or anything anyways
I thought you would've already gotten them since you were so much ahead of me and it's right there with the zora gem quest

[visual folio]

seeing what each of us misses is part of the fun

even before this, there were at least two pieces of heart that I saw before I could get and you've since reminded me to go back for

[civic hawk]

that's kind of how the TOTK parallel playthroughs went down like

go get em

you have the advantage of being ahead so you can see what stuff I'm going through and not going through, I haven't seen much of what you've done just yet

[visual folio]

jesus I cannot count seconds to save my life

[civic hawk]

yeeaaahhh!

splish splosh

Hmmmm!

[visual folio]

ok, I've opened the path to my next dungeon

[civic hawk]

Whirlwind Staff huh

[visual folio]

gonna go back and do a few random overworld things I'm now aware I missed

[civic hawk]

you could also go touch ravioli's rupee bag and see what he says

[civic hawk]

huh... a hookshot? in 2d? alright...

[visual folio]

more parallel reactions

there, finally remembered to do that

[civic hawk]

Inochi yori mo taisetsuna mono ga haitte iru ndesu?

[visual folio]

yep

[civic hawk]

pretty much same thing

as the spanish one I mean

[visual folio]

my preferred spacing would be taisetsu na and irun desu but that's purely personal preference

[civic hawk]

Oh yeah I kinda copied it from the google translate romaji text under the japanese text

Oh!

Wait

I got the whirlwind staff but... he didn't make me return the hammer?

[visual folio]

you can rent as many items as you want at once

it's just more rupees and more stuff he'll get back if you die

[civic hawk]

oooooohhh I forgot, it's until I die

awesome

[visual folio]

I rented more than half his stock the moment I realized that

[civic hawk]

hm

Oh I can't move in the air...

well that complicates things...

doshiyou....

[visual folio]

I was confused by that too

turns out it's more of a puzzle item, only useful if you're near an object that can be blown away by wind, or stuff at different heights that'll interact with you just by you going straight up

[civic hawk]

ahh

well that's weird but, that's fine

guess I'll grab some bombs for these rocks blocking caves

[visual folio]

almost forgot about you again

[civic hawk]

mohitotsu

should I just yoink all of ravioli's items?

I mean.. might as well

I have 1.7k rupees so I definitely could

alright yeah the bird thing goes crazy when it wants you to take a break

[visual folio]

I think it boils down to how often do you tend to die

oooh it's about the take a break message

[civic hawk]

so far, zero deaths

[visual folio]

then it's hard to argue that

I didn't rent everything, but what I skipped was based on what was least useful in the LttP overworld

[civic hawk]

I just rented everything

the hook and boomerang sure trivialize fights

might as well try everything at least once

there was no net though...

alright, let's go to that third temple

[visual folio]

huh, when did this guy come back

[civic hawk]

he was in the zora river remember? and he ran away

[visual folio]

that's what I mean

I met him here in the village first

then in the zora river

and that's the last I saw of him

I just bought the rock back from the merchant he presumably sold it to

[civic hawk]

Yeah, he goes back to the village, he just hangs in a different spot and doesn't walk around

pretty much immediately after he runs into you

[visual folio]

gee I wonder if he has my boots

[civic hawk]

'your' boots?

[visual folio]

that's more like it

so I didn't even "miss" these per se, that NPC just didn't respawn here until now

[civic hawk]

Well it 'respawned' in town as soon as you bumped into him in the river

unless you walked past there before when you bought the gem and he wasn't there?

[visual folio]

yeah, I think this was a side effect of me not figuring out how to reach zora village until I'd done all the other first pass overworld stuff I could find

YES these do what I hoped they would

[civic hawk]

bump into everything!

hello there

Link actually has a little scroll he reads while reading the letter!

I love these little details

hmmmm side quest time

'hey, i've been looking after you for a while and nothing bad has happened, are you sure you're the green thing I'm meant to protect?
well... talking to you isn't so bad so... I don't mind...'

the witch girl likes me..

[visual folio]

I knew you'd like those lines

[civic hawk]

I'm a little surprised they're so similar in both these languages

superior milk!

[visual folio]

ah, JP was Premium Milk

oooh, is Link turning his head toward ||the maimai I hear squeaking||?

[civic hawk]

aha!

Oh my god a Lynel

they're so cute

[visual folio]

and I believe their fire does more damage than any other overworld enemy

[civic hawk]

I died

[visual folio]

per fire tick

[civic hawk]

that's a lotta damage

phew, good thing I reloaded the save

otherwise I would've had to rebuy all the items

how much hp does this thing have?!

[visual folio]

I gave up trying to kill one after my second death

[civic hawk]

I'd give it up too but I gotta get through here

[visual folio]

no I mean I ran past them lol

[civic hawk]

I know! I can't just run through

I'm gonna die

well whaddya know

I didn't die

hah, that's fun

I gotta use my hook to hang onto the wall and quickly fuse before i fall

[visual folio]

oooh I loved that room

[civic hawk]

it's pretty fun

[visual folio]

all right, I think it's finally dungeon time for me

[civic hawk]

huh...

yeah I gotta finish this little side quest and go do the temple already

been fucking around for an hour already

[visual folio]

at least you were doing it on purpose

[civic hawk]

woah

Oh god depth perception

don't fail me now

[visual folio]

now you see what I was complaining about earlier

[civic hawk]

that was nerve wracking

oh man that was not fun

wait...

am I on the mines already?

but... where's the guy that needs milk?

oh right there's more paths in the lava thing

[visual folio]

there were more paths!?

[civic hawk]

on each side of these walls where the lynels are? yeah

there's 3 little stone walls

[visual folio]

huh, I thought I checked there

they probably didn't let me be thorough

[civic hawk]

yeah I had to fuse into the wall and wait for the platform only leaving to momentarily refill the stamina bar

they won't let you wait for the platforms

there you are

|| bottle #2 || get!

awesome

[visual folio]

won't click that but I have a decent guess

definitely prioritizing that after this dungeon

[civic hawk]

I went back to the milk man store after this, def worth it

temple time!

I don't remember this place looking so big from the outside...

maybe it's Ganon's magic /s

actually had to use an hp item there phew

[visual folio]

dungeon complete

[civic hawk]

yokude kita!

[visual folio]

phew

[civic hawk]

why so blue

[visual folio]

[civic hawk]

boss time!

[visual folio]

unexpected side effect of this detour (although Nire doesn't know what this means yet):

[civic hawk]

I've always wanted to fight a biblically accurate angel

oooohhh

this is a good fight

I like this one

yattazo

[visual folio]

half the time I want to warp somewhere, my muscle memory tries to open up the item menu to select the ocarina but nooooope

[civic hawk]

hyah!

[civic hawk]

I haven't played OOT in so long that that doesn't apply to me, I'm more used to going into the map in BOTW/TOTK

but I've gotten pretty used to this game surprisingly, I'm really loving this

[visual folio]

oh no I mean the LttP ocarina

[civic hawk]

Oh!

Right

[visual folio]

OoT's does a ton of stuff, LttP's just gets a few NPC reactions and does fast travel

[civic hawk]

l-l-l-la espada maestra

[civic hawk]

the game is named after it of course

[visual folio]

oh right now that you have it

ah, the fast travel is much harder to miss this time around, that makes sense

I should probably tell you how LttP does it

or at least give you the option, I dunno if you'll ever play LttP

[civic hawk]

witch girl doko?????

[civic hawk]

Doubt

so go ahead

wha... who is this guy....

aww the old witch is in love with the fortune teller

i... i don't want any trouble.....

[visual folio]

In LttP there is no witch girl, only the adult witch, and fast travel has nothing to do with her. To unlock LttP fast travel, you must complete a sidequest: multiple NPCs around Kakariko will tell you about a missing boy who loved to play the ocarina (flute in English) for birds in particular. If you go into the forest SE of Kakariko you'll find his ghost playing for the critters but disappearing when you get close. After you've completed all light world dungeons, unlocked the dark world, done the first dark world dungeon so it becomes possible to visit the dark world's version of that forest (yes, no fast travel for that much of the game, at least), you can find the boy himself on the verge of death. He asks you to find and play the ocarina for him one last time, so he gives you a shovel and tells you he buried it in that forest under a flower. Warp to the light world, dig several flower tiles to find it, warp back, play it for him, he passes away and turns into a tree. Now after all of that, you must also think to play the ocarina for the bird-shaped weathervane in the middle of Kakariko village, which turns it into a real bird that flies away. After this, any time you play it outside in the light world, that bird will pick you up and give you a choice of 8 places to fast travel to.

as much as I like that sidequest, and I did do it almost as early as it could've been done without any guidance, you can see how incredibly easy it would be to never figure all of this out (in fact I had no idea what the bird did after it flew away, I almost didn't try playing it again)

I'm very glad LBW made fast travel unmissable

[civic hawk]

yeah that sounds a little tedious for sure

sounds like a cool quest but, tedious

to be fair, the map in this game isn't that big anyways

but! still

[visual folio]

if I were remaking LttP I'd keep the whole quest but have a different reward, and put fast travel somewhere else where you can't miss it

[civic hawk]

no excuse to hide such a vital mechanic behind a complicated quest like that

[visual folio]

#NintendoHardcore

meanwhile what actually tripped me up was getting through the door to the dark Kakariko dungeon

apparently you pull on it and it crumbles

[civic hawk]

it happens

you pull off a complicated quest first try
you get stumped on a super easy one

[bright girder]

I once spent like 5 min trying to get through the first door in Ganons castle in Wind Waker because it didnt look like a door

[civic hawk]

speaking of, I see what the game is doing, taking away these little ghosts everytime I fail to navigate the forest

just rub my stupidity in my face

how dare you make this easy for me!

[bright girder]

its too hard on the first try

[visual folio]

I only failed the lost woods ghost thing once

on the other hand (I don't think Nire read this part of the backlog yet) it took me several hours to realize I could cross ^this gap

[civic hawk]

here we go

Yeaaah the music crescendo!

I shoot rays now pew pew

[visual folio]

right, has is a form of haber

that specific verb never became intuitive for me somehow

[civic hawk]

doko....

[civic hawk]

yeah, ''yo he'' ''tú has'' ''él ha'' ''ustedes han'' ''vosotros habéis'' ''vos has''

[visual folio]

[civic hawk]

Oh! Ravioli lets me buy them now?

cool!

[visual folio]

and that is how he got ALL my rupees

oh wait that’s after the master sword

[civic hawk]

Oh man these are expensive...

[visual folio]

I didn’t visit him again until after the next main quest thing

Yeah I’ve still got two items left to buy

[civic hawk]

quick equipment huh?

ehhh I'll stick with regular equipping

[visual folio]

I can see how that might be useful on a real 3DS, but for me it’s actually harder than the usual controls

[civic hawk]

yeah

although 'useful' is arguable but yeah

they have to make use of all the functions 'unfortunately'

[visual folio]

“might” lol

so

I am aware of one fairly large side quest that I don’t think you’ve found yet; I don’t think it’s essential, but I wanted to ask if you’d like a pointer to it before you get even farther without having started it

[civic hawk]

well if you think that I wouldn't find it on my own then maybe some directions would be fine

the only thing I can think of right now is that I didn't find that kid

I just don't think I have anything on me yet to do that

[visual folio]

oh it’s easy to find once you’re in the area for it

I’ll stay quiet then

[civic hawk]

have I visited that area already?

[visual folio]

you must have passed close by the area, but from your screenshots I don’t know if you ever went there

[civic hawk]

really...

the only place I haven't visited so far is....

maybe directly south of kakariko

[visual folio]

not there, that whole southwest corner is walled off and impossible to reach until more main quest happens

I’m thinking of ||the northern coast of Lake Hylia||

[civic hawk]

mmmmm

let me look around real quick again

ah, this?

[visual folio]

oh you have been there

or

[civic hawk]

I opened it, assumed it was main quest stuff or progress, and left it

and then forgot

[visual folio]

[civic hawk]

uhhh.....

ah, I see, it's koroks

[visual folio]

lol kinda

[civic hawk]

get... off!!

[visual folio]

but yes they’re all over the map so I figure it’d kinda suck if you didn’t pick this up until 2/3rds into the game

[civic hawk]

am I doing something wrong or am I missing something?

[visual folio]

detaching/reaching/uncovering them is a puzzle

[civic hawk]

Oh!

I'm a fucking idiot

I know

yeeey

[visual folio]

nah you got that faster than me

anyway I found this before my second dungeon, so by the time I had the master sword I’d stumbled into a dozen or so

[civic hawk]

I stumbled into it before the m. sword too I just didn't go inside

Alright I'm gonna get all the guys in this area here, save, check the castle really quick before ending this session because it's colder than the old witch's you know what in here and I'm sleepy

ikimashou

[visual folio]

fyi the castle is a whole thing

[civic hawk]

I knew it!!!

Oh in that case hmm

I 'll just get the little guys in here then

oh!

didn't see that guy there

mmmmmm maybe later

[visual folio]

📌

[civic hawk]

oh..! hello

Oh!!!

thank you weird man!

[visual folio]

[civic hawk]

lol... alright, i see where the last one is can't get it yet

aaaalrighty! that's a wrap then, I'll tackle the castle next sesh

good session progress was made, fun was had

[civic hawk]

you already got the net huh...

So you are able to get it at this time, I just haven't found it

very well

[visual folio]

and the net is not a thing I’m worried will suffer from finding later

[unique dagger]

https://youtu.be/ahcyGifnSPY

[visual folio]

time for another dungeon

||I'm thinking dark world desert||

I miscalculated, this area is mostly unexplorable until I get another item

neat, ||the skull woods painting|| is just out here in the overworld

[visual folio]

the hand is much freakier this time around

[unique dagger]

wallmaster moment

[visual folio]

it even wiggles its fingers right before it comes down

but it can't grab flat Link

can't get me down here

niiiice ||you can trick the hand into pressing buttons for you||

[visual folio]

Cap: in LttP, could you set mummies on fire with the lantern? I only remember being able to do it with the fire rod, but that could just be because aiming the lantern was finicky

[unique dagger]

uhhh

i don't actually remember

i only ever used the fire rod for Gibdos

[visual folio]

oh these are gibdos

[unique dagger]

yes

[visual folio]

huh, so that's how sword upgrades work this time: ||we take a "master stone" to the blacksmith||

[unique dagger]

yes !

[visual folio]

can you tell this was made after OoT?

huh, maimais can ||be inside buildings apparently||

did not expect ||a stealth section; the clear vision cones are very appreciated||

[visual folio]

I'm liking what they did with the ||dark temple||, there's a bunch of stuff you need your lantern to see and ||a bunch of stuff you need to put away your lantern to see||

[visual folio]

nice mosaic

[unique dagger]

omg that's the mask guy from LttP

[visual folio]

I'm expecting a similar boss fight yeah

||plus this is the dungeon that requires bombs||

[visual folio]

ugh, I had to look up multiple solutions in this dungeon

[bright girder]

What happened to your hint glasses..

[visual folio]

weirdly many things with duplicate red herrings in the wrong room making it look like I already did the things I was supposed to do

you know I completely forgot I had those

[civic hawk]

plot twist, they weren't hint glasses at all, the fortune teller just wanted to troll link and make him look stupid

I've used them pretty often but I find myself solving whatever I need to solve on my own so I haven't wasted those points yet

[visual folio]

probably because the last time I got stumped I couldn't find a single hint ghost in that entire region of the map

[civic hawk]

but there are a couple of hint ghosts in temples and such

oh

[visual folio]

now that I'm wearing them I do see a bunch of ghosts in this temple

unfortunately everything I looked up this time had a theme of "the thing you were trying either was right and didn't work, or was right but there's a nearby decoy not working so you didn't think to re-check for similar objects in every other room" so I'm not sure any of the ghosts would've been much help

looks like one of those issues could've been resolved by a hint ghost, but just the one

anyway boss time

I like the crystals

[wet compass]

[unique dagger]

WHAO

[civic hawk]

well this is a funny sequence of messages to read with no context and not clicking on that image

[visual folio]

that was one of the better boss fights so far

huh, now it's red

wonder how many colors there are now

[wet compass]

well i think you have the whole RGB spectrum now

[unique dagger]

oh hey it's a dwarven fella

[visual folio]

so one thing I haven't really talked about yet

||the items needed for navigation/progression seem to mostly be Ravio's stash and overworld sidequests; dungeons so far are only giving me plot coupons and attack/defense upgrades||

||during LttP if I ran out of ideas for the overworld I could "just do a dungeon next", but here since I've done all the overworld quests I know how to do I'm not sure where to go looking for, in this case, the glove upgrade for big rocks||

||ironically, the LttP fortuneteller only told me about overworld items, but the LBW one only tells me about dungeon entrances, both the opposite of what I ended up needing ||

[wet compass]

hmm
i dont remember where that is
but its been a very long time since i played that game

[visual folio]

but in other news

I own everything now

[wet compass]

epic

[civic hawk]

well that wasn't very non-linear of you, game

[visual folio]

he says getting it two dungeons later than I did

[civic hawk]

I don't know what I did because I talked to this guy before but didn't get it at that time

so I dunno what activates that

[visual folio]

having a bottle

[wet compass]

i activated it

[visual folio]

I had the same confusion during LttP

[wet compass]

i just forgot to do it earlier, sorry

[visual folio]

no one expects this even though the NPC apparently tells us this if we go early

[civic hawk]

Well I don't remember that

he just tells me ''oh you don't have a net? well that's too bad''

[visual folio]

oof

I also don't remember LttP's bug kid telling me to get a bottle

[unique dagger]

he doesn't

[civic hawk]

hmmmm.....

I can hear it chirping....

and Link is looking straight at that house roof

it's not in the walls so... hm

[unique dagger]

do you have the pegasus boots

[visual folio]

I've had a yellow pin there for over half of my playthrough, still haven't figured out how to get up there

[civic hawk]

I have an idea

[visual folio]

we both have the boots, I did try slamming into the wall

[unique dagger]

cause if you do maybe if you dash into the house it'll fall down

oh ok

[civic hawk]

pegasus boots don't work no

[visual folio]

(both inside and outside)

[civic hawk]

pegasus boots work whenever you actually see it or hear it on top of like a tree or something, they fall down

let me see if I can do what I'm thinking of doing...

[unique dagger]

use Ascend /s

[visual folio]

yeah, when I finally got the boots I went around clearing up over half of the yellow pins I had on my map

[unique dagger]

yesterday i was playing Doom Eternal and i tried to use Ascend

[civic hawk]

I wish I had ascend

I did try to use it when I was on one of the dungeons where you actually physically jump from bottom to the top

I was like ''just use ascend idiot''

[visual folio]

tornado rod is just a low tech ascend /s

[civic hawk]

aaaaaaand I am officially a genius

[visual folio]

OH

[civic hawk]

sometimes my genius.... it's frightening

[unique dagger]

WHOA

[visual folio]

dang I should've figured that out

[civic hawk]

appul

[visual folio]

there's only the one apple tree, right?

[unique dagger]

holy shit it lets you use 2 items

[civic hawk]

no there's a couple of trees that give apples

[visual folio]

yep, the second item slot is an early game upgrade

[civic hawk]

this one tree gave me a bomb just now

an activated bomb

[visual folio]

oh are you just pegasusing into random trees?

[civic hawk]

when I feel like it

[visual folio]

ok I'd better start trying that, I've only been doing it on trees with a visible item

[civic hawk]

I'm gonna find the last little guy in here in the kakariko area, there's one under sand that I cannot get to right now so I just gotta find one more before I move on from here, pretty much just yoinking the ones I can get to right now and leaving the others for later

[visual folio]

oh boy that's probably the same one I haven't found

[civic hawk]

The last one should be where the cowgirl is... I gotta play her shitty game again

Oh! bee!! beee!!!

bee

OH!

Nevermind, I love her game

[bright girder]

is that the one where you dodge chickens

[visual folio]

there IS a piece of heart there

nope this is the one where you have to get rupees and leave in <30s

[civic hawk]

she called me a smart boy too

[visual folio]

was it a rupee threshold or a time threshold

[civic hawk]

the one with the chickens is right next to this one, that one I don't know if it gives you any prizes yet because I didn't complete the final difficulty

in english she's rupee rush gal or something like that

[visual folio]

pretty sure the chicken one only gave rupees when I beat the third and final difficulty

[bright girder]

iirc its points but you get a giga bonus the closer you are to 30?

[civic hawk]

oh god I just heard birds outside my window and thought there was one of the damn snail things in here

[civic hawk]

based on the data I collected playing this minigame like 3 times and getting better at it that seems to be the case

[bright girder]

the chicken dodge game has a piece of heart for sure I spent some time on that

[civic hawk]

I wonder what the prize is for 30 secs flat

maybe the triforce

[visual folio]

sorry no, cucco dodging final difficulty was rupees and a piece of heart

[civic hawk]

mmmm... guess I could spend some time fucking around dodging chickens for a couple of minutes, sure

let's do it

[visual folio]

completely unrelated turtles:

[bright girder]

for true 100% you must survive one thousand seconds in the endless mode to get the giant cucco

(no one does this but its a thing)

[civic hawk]

worst part is I don't know if that's a joke because I can see the game doing that

[bright girder]

I could barely do 30 seconds on the final one

[civic hawk]

let's see how I do

I've played touhou before this ain't my first rodeo

[bright girder]

its not a joke there is a reward for 999.99 seconds in endless

[civic hawk]

didn't last a second

pfff

[visual folio]

oh this is not at all what "turtle rock" meant in LttP

[civic hawk]

''do you want my cuccoos to attack you again? ''

[bright girder]

but its not an important reward like a piece of heart, its 3000 rupees and apparently you get a giant cucco in the credits?

[civic hawk]

Oh my fucking Hylia there's so many gigantic cuccoos in here

Yes!!

Oh my god

[visual folio]

wow you got a good spawn pattern much sooner than I did

[civic hawk]

that got super close to being the timeline where the hero gets viciously mauled by giant round fluffy creatures

heart piece!!!

8 hearts baby

she just said she has a special difficulty and reward for me available now

oh that's limitless mode got it

[visual folio]

the music in here is giving me SM64 vibes

[civic hawk]

''pío, pío''

adorable

the cuccoo lady must be protected

golden bee huh...

I remember seeing one

[visual folio]

somehow one of the first 5-10 bees I spawned in the game was a golden bee, and I had the net by then

(there are also non-dumb-luck ways to get one)

[civic hawk]

there is?

I don't know if I've come across any way to spawn golden bees

[visual folio]

I mean I was just cutting bushes and lucked out

[civic hawk]

I will say, slightly unrelated, I do find it slightly annoying that the collectable little snail guys only appear after you talk to the squid mom, simply because I could've found so many by now and you have to pretty much re-explore a bunch of the map to get them
Not a big deal at all but it is this one thing that's just mildly annoying

[visual folio]

yeah, that's why I didn't want to leave you without it any longer

after you do the castle there are other reasons to re-explore most of the map

[visual folio]

interesting, in this game "hylian shield" = ||blocks magic attacks||

oh this looks fun

that was fun

[civic hawk]

oh huh, til you can kill those sandshrew looking motherfuckers in death mt.

I thought they were invincible

[visual folio]

I thought so too

[civic hawk]

I'm going over there to see if I can pick up any little critters and they annoyed me so much I tried every item until I thought ''wait a minute what if...'' and it worked

[visual folio]

I do need to revisit hebra soon anyway so guess I'll try everything on them

[civic hawk]

witch girl suddenly disappearing worries me

surely she misses me as much as I miss her right?

oh shit

how did I not see this one before

[visual folio]

I think I picked up that one on the way back from getting the zora flippers

phew, that took some effort even with the pegasus boots

[civic hawk]

I still think it's so sad that in this 2013 game they didn't even try to include any semblance of the other races that already existed in the zelda franchise nor did they even give the zora a proper region or a palace or something it's just a dank, damp, sad little cave under a waterfall

which to be fair that was the Zora place back in OOT but, it was much cooler than this

[visual folio]

well it is a LttP remake

[civic hawk]

maybe they do care about the timeline after all

[visual folio]

one of the weirdest surprises about playing these two games is

the split timeline makes more sense now

look at this dinky version of Hyrule: no gorons, no rito, exactly one proper village of hylians, and maybe five sapient zora in a cave

[civic hawk]

(found another one of these cool wall puzzle caves like the one in death mt )

[visual folio]

this is clearly Hyrule rebuilt after 90% of the population was wiped out

[civic hawk]

world is proper fucked

Although, to be fair...

The way I see it is that since these games are relatively smaller, literally and figuratively, the presentation just makes it seem small but in-universe the map and the places are likely a bit bigger

[visual folio]

with how loose Zelda continuity is that would be my normal assumption

[civic hawk]

but that makes sense too, if this was the world struggling to get back on its feet after the entire world got fucked

[visual folio]

but these are explicitly on a post-apocalyptic timeline

[civic hawk]

though didn't Link wish for the world to go back the way it was before Ganon after lttp?

[visual folio]

(and at least a few people on youtube have pointed me at lore citations that plausibly imply these maps are meant to be a subset of the maps from later/bigger games in other timelines)

[unique dagger]

aww man, i know the Hylian Shield is iconic and stuff but i would have preferred they used the Fighter's Shield design

[civic hawk]

I can see that, though it remained a constant that Hyrule castle is always at the center ( hmph ) and all the other regions are to the corners of the map and around hyrule castle

[visual folio]

the map theory I'm thinking of assumes there is no singular "Hyrule Castle" in a singular place for the whole timeline, since we know it's been destroyed at least once

thre's certainly no way to make all the games' geographies line up if we try to make every Castle and every Kakariko line up and so on

[civic hawk]

Oh no, I mean that it always remained a constant in the general geography of the games that there's always a hyrule castle in the center and everything else is around it and to the corners especially any points of interest

not that there's always the one castle

[visual folio]

oh I thought we were doing lore not game design

right, castle in the middle is tradition now

to the point that when I was playing TP it'd occasionally weird me out that the castle was not quite perfectly centered

[civic hawk]

well I guess that would make more sense

the world isn't a perfect square with perfectly sized tiles after all

which is why I say that to me the fact that everything is so small and compact is mostly a product of the presentation of the game rather than what it actually looks like and the actual scale of these places in-universe, but again the idea that everything is so decadent and small and there's so few people even would line up with the fact that the entire world is in ruins and thousands are dead

could even explain zora's agression to hylians despite them not being hostile before

[visual folio]

right, presentation accounts for a lot, like a castle being the same size as a village, but it can't explain entire species missing or change the number of villages

or the SW desert having nothing to do with Gerudo

[unique dagger]

i like how BotW/TotK's map is similar to LttP

[civic hawk]

I guess they just don't exist in this timeline, or went someplace else, like in TP where they weren't around because they had to escape or were exiled from the land, and WW of course didn't even have them either, though it did have gorons

[unique dagger]

Gorons are in the Oracle games

[civic hawk]

BOTW was the first one to actually include all these races at once in one game all combined

But when and where these races appear in most games seems pretty random and not super consistent it seems

[visual folio]

oh, it's that easy to kill these winged goombas

I'm 95% sure I tried that in LttP and there it didn't work

still no idea how you got that heart piece at the top though

omg I killed a lynel

[unique dagger]

woohoo !

[visual folio]

I KILLED TWO LYNELS

THIS MOUNTAIN IS MINE

[unique dagger]

woohoo !!!!!

[civic hawk]

he's gone crazy with power

[civic hawk]

you too?

I have no clue

did you get that one cave?

[visual folio]

too vague to answer lol

anyway, you going to the castle anytime soon?

[civic hawk]

remember that one cave in death mountain you said you didn't know how to get to?

and yeah I'm heading over now

[visual folio]

hm

also

it's called death mountain in your version?

[civic hawk]

yeah?

[visual folio]

in Japanese LttP and LBW, the northeastern mountain is consistently Mt Hebra

||and in the dark world, Death Mountain||

[civic hawk]

the only thing called that in spanish is the tower which is called Tower of Hera but the mountain is the same as always

[bright girder]

I dont remember ever seeing Hebra in any Zelda game before botw in English

[visual folio]

Hera consistently lacks the "b" so that's probably not meant to be the "same" name

yeah what I read online is that in English it was always just Death Mountain

[civic hawk]

and other languages I think too

[visual folio]

bonus confusion: ||only in LBW, (dark world) Death Mountain is covered in "eternal" snow, while (light world) Mt Hebra is the volcano||

[civic hawk]

nice, I got a heart container and sweeped all this area of the east temple and got that chest I couldn't get to think I'm ready to go to the castle now

oh there you are!!

9th heart!!

[unique dagger]

same

[civic hawk]

oh that's cute, if you let go of a bee you already caught in a bottle it will follow you

welp, I give up, I'll go to the castle, won't look around for this golden bee and waste more time

[visual folio]

yeah that is not a high value sidequest lol

[unique dagger]

does LBW have screens or is it all seamless

[visual folio]

it has screens

[unique dagger]

oh oke

[visual folio]

with similar enemy/foliage respawn rules

[civic hawk]

Princess isn't here!!

whaa

[visual folio]

[civic hawk]

at least she won't be mad I took what was in her chests scattered across the castle

well that confuses things

guess i'll check the roofs again

[visual folio]

oh no

[unique dagger]

that's a lot of cheeseburgers

WHY DOESNT THE BLUE TUNIC HAVE THE YELLOW HAT

[civic hawk]

we are legion

aha

so it's a whole ass dungeon

oh come on game, the castle does not have 7 floors

[visual folio]

yep, part of the reason I wasn't numbering my dungeons was I wasn't sure if this counted as a spoiler

[civic hawk]

I don't think so I sure didn't expect to rescue the princess right now

I just thought a cutscene would happen

but maybe it's at the end of this

[civic hawk]

princess!

this fucker got Impa too?!

don't mess with Impa

[visual folio]

wow, Impa held this guy off long enough for me to do two whole dungeons and associated overworlding? nice

[civic hawk]

You don't know what Impa can do

Nooo!!!!!

(the music in this cutscene is zelda's lullaby but an evil organ version, very nice )

lol this castle did NOT look this tall earlier

[visual folio]

magic duels do weird things to buildings

[civic hawk]

speaking of duels, fight time

nice music

[unique dagger]

i always liked how Skyward Sword's main theme was a reversed Zelda's Lullaby

[civic hawk]

got em

I like how this guy is so damn smug and eccentric but the moment he starts losing he starts stomping his feet and going baby mode

what even is this platform

[unique dagger]

i wonder how these stalkoblins feel about me using their heads as a weapon

[unique dagger]

✨ magic ✨

[civic hawk]

Okay yeah what you see in the overworld map is NOT what is actually meant to be there in universe for sure

[visual folio]

nearly every Zelda game has varying degrees of "bigger on the inside" buildings

[civic hawk]

lol there's triforce themed plates in this room

[visual folio]

what happens to Hyrule Castle here is admittedly an extreme case

[civic hawk]

hhmmmm........

that looks evil

well here we go

the plates!!

everything is... upside down?

[visual folio]

not exactly

[unique dagger]

no zigguraut
i cry

[visual folio]

well I've been actively not talking about this because duh but I think it's an overall improvement that ||the dark world has a kingdom in it now, instead of just the dozen or so interdimensional refugee fursonas LttP had; especially since this is a sequel so it'd be lame if nothing had changed||

[civic hawk]

aahh!!!!

you bastard

[visual folio]

I was hoping you'd notice her there

[civic hawk]

and the rest are here too, I guess

[visual folio]

if you visit the witch before this point she'll even tell you her granddaughter was kidnapped

[civic hawk]

I was thinking of visiting her before doing this whole thing but I didn't end up doing it

damn it

[visual folio]

when I first got the empty broom fast travel I thought she'd gotten fed up with me and sent her broom out on its own but nope

[unique dagger]

yeah that's fair, the Dark World in LttP is under Ganon's rule but that seems to just mean that monsters are allowed to roam free and there isn't really any laws lol

[civic hawk]

oh boy

[unique dagger]

LFG LTTP GANON DESIGN

[civic hawk]

woooaaah

[visual folio]

they did a great job with this cutscene

[civic hawk]

that's weird but cool

[visual folio]

and best part in 3...

[unique dagger]

aWHAT HAPPENED TO GANON

[civic hawk]

oh fuck oh shit don't panic

Aaaaaaahh!!

she's so cute

[visual folio]

yup

this was the "don't you dare click" moment

[civic hawk]

Hilda

[visual folio]

#gothzelda

[civic hawk]

oh no
Link was sent to... the goth dimension

you'll be safe here Link

Oh no

mom is mean now....

''I don't even know why I brought you here. I should've left you where you were, in the middle of the road...''

geez

[unique dagger]

[visual folio]

||after I died 2-3 times and she kept saving me and complaining about it, it started coming off as tsundere ||

[civic hawk]

so I'm gonna be hopping inbetween here and hyrule to find the sages then huh

Alright

hah, the litle bird has bat wings now

[visual folio]

so, how familiar are you with Link to the Past?

[civic hawk]

yes

not a whole lot

holy hell these monsters here are resilient wow

[visual folio]

ok, I was treating "there's a dark world" as a spoiler on the assumption you didn't know LttP

and yeah dark world mobs are noticeably tougher

[civic hawk]

from all the promotional material and trailers they kinda already tell you there's gonna be a dark world of sorts but still yeah

[visual folio]

but basically the structure of LttP is prologue -> 3 light world dungeons -> get master sword -> hyrule castle -> 7 dark world dungeons -> ganon's tower

[unique dagger]

wait fast travel isn't done with the ocarina ,

?

[visual folio]

Hilda was a complete shock to me though

nope, there's no ocarina/flute in LBW

[unique dagger]

this is too different and i hate it /j

[civic hawk]

woah

[visual folio]

instead the witch has a granddaughter/apprentice who fast travels you around because of a prophecy that she needs to take care of something green

[civic hawk]

that's me!

I'm the something green!

[unique dagger]

what if you're wearing blue

[visual folio]

most importantly, it's unmissable fast travel

[unique dagger]

NO BUT MISSING IT WAS SO FUNNY

[visual folio]

well the blue tunic is in a dark world dungeon and she finds you long before that

[unique dagger]

yeah but you're not green anymore

[civic hawk]

huh

so these two are a thing down here

aaalright then, so

where to first?

[visual folio]

LBW's dark world is even more non-linear than LttP's was

afaict most of the dungeons you can go straight to without doing anything besides rent/buy the necessary item if you haven't already

since most of the necessary items are just in Ravio's shop or an overworld sidequest

[civic hawk]

woah

well, guess Kakariko it is then

golden bee!!!

9999 rupees
yeah right

[visual folio]

another set of changes I really like: most light/dark world portals are either easy to see or can be found where you'd expect one to be hidden, there are far more of them, and they're immediately and permanently marked on your map

LttP did have a certain moment when you found one of the half dozen portals hiding under a random rock... but when a third of the dark world was firmly blocked on finding that one rock, that was a bit much

[civic hawk]

yeah that doesn't sound fun

cuccoo lady lost her cuccoos and her bussiness

ooh I can switch the maps

interesting differences

[civic hawk]

makes me wanna wish for a new even more modern 2d zelda

(LA doesn't count)

wait is this bandit cave a dungeon?

[visual folio]

wait did you get in there already

[civic hawk]

yeah

[visual folio]

...evidently I gave up too soon

[civic hawk]

was I not supposed to?

[visual folio]

I haven't gotten in there yet

I found five other dungeons first

[civic hawk]

welp

[visual folio]

oh hey there's a stamina upgrade

[civic hawk]

which ones haven't you done yet?

[visual folio]

I think my brain's about given up trying to follow the architecture of this one so I should probably warp out and quit for tonight

(in a good way, this is one of those dungeons where navigation is the fun hard part)

ok, now that I can finally show you my map without spoilers

this is my status

might as well include this

I was half-hoping I'd've found Airin by now so I could ask if you wanted to know which one she's in

[unique dagger]

why

LA remake is fantastic

[visual folio]

I wonder why LttP got a sequel and LA got a remake

[civic hawk]

I wasn't saying LA is bad just saying it's not a fully original modern 2d zelda

[civic hawk]

it'll be funny if she's in the one I'm in right now

[unique dagger]

LA was in a much more dire need for a remake. the original game had a lot of limitations being on the Gameboy

[visual folio]

oh right, original gameboy

[unique dagger]

like

[visual folio]

so it's more of a Metroid 1-2 situation

[unique dagger]

i guess

[visual folio]

which now makes me realize Z1-2 never got a remake per se, did they?

[unique dagger]

sadly no

[civic hawk]

I'm guessing they chose LA because they already went back to LTTP with ALBW, then back to Z1 with BOTW so they probably chose another classic game to be inspired by/remake

[unique dagger]

i would love for them to get a modern remake, especially Zelda II

Zelda II is incredible but everyone hates it for some reason

the swordplay in that game is incredibly fun

also fun fact, the Zelda I map is a tiny part of the Zelda II map

[civic hawk]

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06/12/the-surprising-reason-nintendo-chose-to-remake-the-legend-of-zelda-links-awakening-e3-2019

apparently one of the main driving forces behind LA's remake was the dungeon creator mechanic

https://www.gameinformer.com/2019/06/27/zelda-directors-explain-why-they-prefer-links-awakening-over-a-link-to-the-past

[unique dagger]

i honestly forget the dungeon creator even exists whenever i play

[civic hawk]

and also apparently Eiji Aonuma likes LA a lot and it was the one he played a lot

and he likes it more than lttp apparently

[unique dagger]

yeah it's a good game

i need a shirt that says "i cleared Eventide Island's monster problem and all i got was a blue maned lynel horn"

[civic hawk]

Oh I found || the thief girl || everyone in town was talking about

[visual folio]

derp I shouldn't be clicking on this

[civic hawk]

yeah that's why I spoiler it, all the other stuff I know you've seen already I don't spoiler

[unique dagger]

is the town in Lorule also Thieves Town like in LttP

[civic hawk]

JESUS

[visual folio]

I think so

village of outcasts?

pretty sure the JP name was the same

[civic hawk]

oh cool, ||escort mission||

||''They're right behind us! You'll have to take me with you the rest of the dungeon. ||
||...huh? Me? fight? I can't! They took all I have, and what's worse... I'm hungry!!! '' ||

lol I saw a little || metal grate/bar|| against the wall that ||you gotta push to make a bridge|| and my first instinct was ''oh I gotta ultrahand this''

‼️

yooo

I need it, I want it

[visual folio]

time for me to suppress the urge to click everything

[civic hawk]

you now know how it feels

uh oh..

did I break the game?

Okay thank god

|| I was doing this part here and I accidentally fell to the lower floor, when I went back up, she was gone I thought maybe she tried following me and fell too or something and thought I broke the game but no, she just goes back to her original cell thankfully ||

all floors clear, boss time!

woah

Oh my god

that is such a hilarious but genius way to fight a boss

hehe, idiot

Oh my god || he actually realizes the shield is useless / I'm constantly tricking him so he just ditches the shield ||

that's awesome

Oh no he actually did something smart

Ooohhh I forgot to pack up milk for this

Oh i'm regretting that

Ooooohh!!! on my last heart!!!

I'm the best

|| thank you random thief lady || you were very nice

aaand 10 hearts get!

oooooohhh this is just like || the spirit realm thing in OOT ||

Aaayyyyyyy I actually needed this

|| ''don't forget to return it!'' pff, yeah right ||

interesting perspective having || a character who thought they'd be the hero but having to accept their role as a sage instead ||

wha- hey!!!

alright, I haven't found a way ''out'' of Lorule yet but that's a good point to stop for tonight just so I don't spend everyday playing zelda for 5 hours straight like with TOTK

also, hah, the main screen changed now to Lorule instead of Hyrule, specifically Kakariko since it's where I am currently/my last save

[visual folio]

oh wow I assumed you had found a way out

you really beelined that dungeon

[civic hawk]

I did? I thought I was going at a pretty leisurely pace

[visual folio]

I did a bunch of overworlding and found several portals before I started a dungeon

[civic hawk]

unfortunately, || it was not the witch dungeon.... but I think I know where she is now so I can do that one next time ||

Ahh, you mean I went straight to it

Well, I kinda just happened to be near it and thought... sure, let's do it

[visual folio]

I poked at the entrance but didn't know the trick so I just wandered around and never ended up back there

[civic hawk]

I'm gonna be exploring a bunch next time of course

[visual folio]

so after work tomorrow, my itinerary is finish the ice dungeon I'm in, then do a fresh pass of village of outcasts to see if I can figure this out for myself

there's basically no point in me doing any more overworlding until I have some idea where the glove upgrade is; I've done nearly everything that isn't blocked by a big rock

[civic hawk]

The funny thing is I kinda guessed the final portion of that little password thing at the door, but all the other questions are things the townspeople tell you about, I'm surprised you didn't get it but to be fair they say it so... casually, that I wouldn't blame you for not really thinking it's information worth storing in your head

Since I had talked to the people around and went to the door I had it pretty fresh in my noggin

[visual folio]

I didn't even get a dialogue tree to start so I probably missed something so mundane it's not considered an actual clue or trick

[civic hawk]

so you didn't get the titan gloves yet hmmm, I thought you would have by now, seems like a weird item to lock behind progress

[visual folio]

that's always what I get stuck on in games like this anyway

[civic hawk]

Oh really?

weird...

did you knock on the left door?

[visual folio]

I'm not gonna play 20 questions on it before I give it another shot lol

but yes I made a few guesses about what "knock" might mean, and didn't get any response

[civic hawk]

I just talked to it, I mean knock as in just interact with it, but that's weird that you didn't even get a dialogue tree though I guess you'll figure it out next time, but yeah you're right there's no real trick or puzzle to it, it's pretty straightforward but so subtle you can totally miss it

I just remembered I forgot to || visit the blacksmith before exiting the game to upgrade the master sword || I'll be doing that next time too

[visual folio]

yeah I figured it'd be something dumb like that

[civic hawk]

I'm definitely having a blast though, I don't want to sound like the game is short or small or anything since there's quite a lot to do, but coming from TOTK I definitely appreciate the scale of this game a bunch

[visual folio]

especially since that exact same statue in LttP also had me stuck on a very dumb non-challenge for half the game

[civic hawk]

I actually think it's quite neat...

[visual folio]

I mean the "you literally just press A" part

I assume what comes after it is cool

but I went looking for this content and somehow completely whiffed it

[civic hawk]

Oh interacting with it you mean?

[visual folio]

let's just stop talking about it until I get to actually try it lol

[civic hawk]

Right

[visual folio]

you're gonna basically write a walkthrough here in jeapordy question form at this rate

[civic hawk]

Yeah you said you weren't there for long/didn't come back to that area at all so I'm going through the areas you haven't visited it seems

Which is something that keeps happening

it happened in totk

[visual folio]

just like you not finding the net or the maimais until today

if we did everything in exactly the same order it'd hardly be non-linear

[civic hawk]

Yeah, now that the game actually fully opens up there's a lot of different ways we can go about it

though you're already pretty much kind of there you got 2 more

so you're quite ahead of me

[visual folio]

yep, even if you hadn't played today, next up for me was either try this dungeon entrance again, or randomly scour the overworld for leads on the glove

incidentally, LBW "opens up" approximately one dungeon earlier than LttP did

LttP's dark world basically railroads you to the easternmost dark dungeon, and there's no way to get to the rest of the dark world until you have the item from it (which I'm not saying is a bad thing, especially back in the 90s)

and I believe the sand rod is the only item in LBW that you need to get from one dark dungeon before doing another dark dungeon (semi-guessing since I haven't done it yet ofc); LttP had more cases of that so you couldn't do its dark world dungeons in as many orders as LBW's

[civic hawk]

ALBW railroads you as well in the beginning but fortunately things don't take a whole lot of time to complete, I just fucked around and explored ''too much'' so I took a while before getting there but you can comfortably get past the whole opening thing in a short time if you just focus on that and do everything else later

and yeah this is significantly a lot more open than alttp where you even had to get items from dungeons if I'm remembering correctly, unlike here where you can just... get em, anytime, no requirements (with some exceptions)

significantly more freedom

Honestly my only complaints so far are that I got so used to and like how all the races are represented in BOTW that I kind of miss that and it's weird going back to just the weird green ultra cartoony Zora of which there's barely any of them as it is

But at the same time it's what makes this timeline's games unique too and this game does have || Lorule and Princess Hilda || so that's very nice actually

I'm really really loving this game a lot

[unique dagger]

i like the weird fish monster Zora a lot

[civic hawk]

Which is exactly what I hoped would happen when I was thinking of playing it

[unique dagger]

and the queen zora lady is pretty

[civic hawk]

She's not as pretty as Ruto, Rutela or Mipha

[unique dagger]

mmmm

i think i disagree

i just like mermaids a lot

[glad isle]

The depths under ||Hyrule Castle are aaaaa||

[wet compass]

https://youtu.be/KMMhVtoc4Ow

[visual folio]

all right, now that I'm fully awake and my new work laptop is setting itself up, let's get back on these ice ruins

[bright girder]

its called link to the past 2?

[visual folio]

yep, Link to the Past is Kamigami no Toraifoosu, and Link Between Worlds is Kamigami no Toraifoosu 2

[visual folio]

yep, I already found a room where I could do a thing

I don't have a fear of heights, but

[wet compass]

Oh that was a fun dungeon if I recall

[visual folio]

I'm liking it

[wet compass]

I think I had the most problems with the lava dungeon? Tho, again, it's been a very long time since I played that game

[visual folio]

it's neat how well it recaptures that sense I had in LttP's ice palace of "I have no idea where I'm supposed to be going but somehow I keep making progress " and then later on I need to actually understand all of the roundabout ways to reach certain rooms

for me LBW's turtle rock went super smoothly; found every chest, didn't get stuck on anything, even the boss was one of the better ones

[wet compass]

Oh yeah remember this was a 3DS game
That was fun experience on the original hardware lol

[visual folio]

LBW's dark palace had me stumped on things that in retrospect probably shouldn't have but oh well these things happen

oh I think I found the boss too early

yep, that wasn't Airin either, so she's exactly where Nire and I think she is

[visual folio]

huh, I have no idea how to get these last two ice ruins chests

aaaargh it's another of those hole in the bottom wall tricks that I specifically checked for but it's so finicky it didn't work for me

thought so, the last one became reachable with the stamina upgrade

now to village of outcasts

yep, it was as simple as I didn't try pressing A on the correct side of the statue

so there are maimais in trees which aren't visible, only audible

[bright girder]

no maimais

[visual folio]

there we go, entrance puzzle solved

[visual folio]

work stuff resolved, on to the dungeon

lol, the thief loses track of me if I use my pegasus boots

the NPCs have regressed from the SNES era

ooooh Blind looks much cooler this time around

for comparison:

[unique dagger]

you don't like the wiggly fingers fire ghost ?

[visual folio]

it's good for SNES graphics, but

got sidetracked for nearly an hour there by actually doing my job

hahaha I can hide on his shield, that's great

good fight

[unique dagger]

i dont know why his name is Blined

[visual folio]

in LttP I assume it was because of the "hates sunlight" thing

though I still don't understand what he was trying to accomplish by disguising himself as one of the maidens, asking to be led outside, and then if you actually do that going "sorry I don't wanna go outside" and despawning

[unique dagger]

he was feeling silly

[visual folio]

heh, this gets even crazier in the SNES version of the fight:

[visual folio]

as if Ravio wasn't suspicious enough already, his mascot critter can freely travel between light and dark world

immediately buys back sand rod

let's goooo

lol Ravio ||does a little dance when you buy the last item||

[civic hawk]

Has to be my favorite fight so far

I loved that

And then he ditches the shield knowing it's useless

[visual folio]

now that I have all four rods, I appreciate that each one is more different than just the obvious element matches; one drops a thing, one starts a moving thing, one raises a line of things, one raises you

LttP fire and ice rods were basically just a red sparkle and a blue sparkle projectile

[civic hawk]

I will say I did find it a little bit annoying how the wind thing doesn't let you glide a bit or even move at all during its activation
It's still crazy useful for various things outside the dungeon it's for, but that felt weirdly... Limited

But it's a small thing really

[visual folio]

I sort of agree, but I also see how it'd immediately become the most OP item in the game and break half of the puzzles it's not meant to be used on

it's ultimately the same reason why this Link lacks the power of making tiny jumps

or climbing over an ankle-high wall

[civic hawk]

He's just a little guy

Funny

Link's Awakening Link does have the ability to jump lol

But to be fair this is a game where all these items don't really have a set of puzzles they're "not meant" to be used on
All these items have useful functions outside of their respective dungeons and it seems pretty well though out in that regard

That's the fun of it

[visual folio]

yep

in a truly 3D game it's much easier to make the character have "realistic" movement abilities like jumping and climbing, and even support gliding, while still leaving room for lots of different movement upgrades

have I mentioned I'm bad at remembering to use consumables/potions? I've gotten in the habit of just netting fairies whenever I walk by one and have an empty bottle

I like how the never-before-used save points are "asleep"

[visual folio]

if potions were a separate inventory from fairies maybe I would've crafted more

[visual folio]

...excuse me 👀

also I just realized I never upgraded my sword

...literally the second after I walked through a door that closed behind me

[civic hawk]

[visual folio]

||oh he can't do the 3rd sword upgrade for me, that's a whole other quest||

[civic hawk]

In any other game I'd be emulating that sort of thing would cause me to load a save state but honestly, so far I haven't used a single save state and I've just... Played the game like normal

[visual folio]

same, it's so nice having a modern save system again

even with save states, I regularly lost progress in LttP since... when you're actually having fun, you don't normally think "better save that before the game deletes my progress"

[civic hawk]

Mhm, though this game really isn't that hard so that helps too, at least I think it's not that hard
The boss fight in that temple last night gave me loads of trouble but no deaths luckily, I'd assume Lttp is maybe a harder game too

Funnily enough the only thing to kill me in this game was a lynel because I got too close thinking I could just stab it

[visual folio]

LttP is definitely harder in some ways, but how many of those ways are "real" difficulty is up for debate and/or a generational thing

I continue to feel absolutely no shame about save state scumming the heck out of the 16-bit cheeseburger

3D cheeseburger got a fair fight

[civic hawk]

I'm talking difficulty in more... Measurable? Ways
Like enemy health, damage, how hard the boss is to actually kill, if there's any intricacy to the fight, the length of a boss or dungeon

[civic hawk]

[visual folio]

I feel like the core combat is roughly similarly hard overall, there's just specific things that are easier or harder now that the z-axis is real and you have 360 movement

[civic hawk]

Lttp has done irreparable damage to Ix

[visual folio]

lol

to be clear, most of my LttP complaining falls into the "you were so good but then you did this one silly thing" category

it stings more when it was nearly perfect

the one I'm actually sore about is that one dark world portal I mentioned before

speaking of random comparisons

this is LttP's fast travel

https://www.almarsguides.com/AlmarsImages/Retro/Walkthroughs/SNES/ZeldaALinktothePast/Quests/Flute/A link to the past Fast Travel Menu.png

light world only, 8 points you get immediately upon bringing the bird to life, none ever get added later on

the dark world never gets any kind of fast travel

I almost forgot to try the bell in LBW's dark world because I was so used to it not being there

[bright girder]

I dont really mind the cheeseburger boss in lttp

it doesnt deal any damage so you can just keep trying

[visual folio]

it would've been fine if his health didn't reset every time you fell off

[bright girder]

yeah but it does die pretty quick once you get the hang of it

[visual folio]

I think I did something like 4-5x his actual health bar before I wondered if that was happening

[bright girder]

I had more problems with Ganon resetting hp when I fell

[visual folio]

I got good enough at the burger to regularly do 2-3 hits before falling, sometimes 4 legit, but all 5 in a row? not a chance, at least not for me; he's far too fast and too random

[civic hawk]

I know we joked about ALBW being so much better than alttp but I don't know if they were jokes after all

I mean, would you say you're enjoying it more?

[visual folio]

I do think it's better but it's the sum total of a lot of small things, most of which are things we take for granted in modern games

[civic hawk]

Sure sounds like albw "fixes" most of that kind of annoying stuff

[bright girder]

Well the idea is you enter the dark world at specific places depending on where you want to go so saying it doesn't have fast travel isn't that bad in reality when you just use the light world warps and enter the dark world where you warped

[visual folio]

because I went into LttP mentally prepared for "old game stuff", and had the luxury of save states, it wasn't nearly as bad as if I'd tried to play the game completely legit on original hardware or whatever

and yes light world fast travel is usually plenty once you learn where all the portals are

but it's still so nice to have it in both worlds

so overall I would say I'm enjoying LBW more, but it's by a relatively small margin

if I'd done LttP as Miyamoto(?) intended then it'd be a bigger margin

[bright girder]

LTTP has held up really good for its age but I dont see how people can call it the best Zelda without being absolutely blinded by nostalgia

[visual folio]

I think when people call LttP or OoT the "best" they're talking about historical significance, industry influence, or personal memories, the sort of thing that you can't replicate by making a sequel that simply fixes the little things everyone agrees were annoying

[bright girder]

IMO OOT has a far better case going for it in all those aspects

[visual folio]

I am floored by how well LttP holds up though

I was expecting much more "old game stuff" than I got

it is also very likely that playing OoT as one of my earliest Zeldas over a decade ago is affecting my impressions compared to all the ones I (re)played within just the last year

[unique dagger]

[bright girder]

you think every zelda is the best zelda

[unique dagger]

this is true actually

i don't think there's a mainline Zelda i don't like

just ones i prefer over others

[bright girder]

ye but thats not what best means

theres only one best

[unique dagger]

ok then the best Zelda is BotW

[civic hawk]

Nostalgia is absolutely a factor with people that say LTTP is the best one, either that or the massive influence it had on the entire franchise, which I agree with, but I wouldn't say it's the best

[bright girder]

TRUE

[unique dagger]

i really really really like TotK but i need to let it stew for a while because it might just be recency bias

[civic hawk]

I have the opposite view, I liked totk a lot more than botw

[unique dagger]

i think i do too

idk both are amazing

[bright girder]

TRUE

totk is probably a better game just kinda hard to top my memories of being a student in 2017 with all the time in the world and exploring that world for the first time

[unique dagger]

yeee

like nothing beats exploring the Great Plateau for the first time

[civic hawk]

which is exactly the same as why some people say alttp is the best one

[bright girder]

Ye except lttp was goated because they were 7 when it came out and botw was goated because it was the greatest game ever made despite me being an adult and not 7

[visual folio]

I think BotW, TotK and Minish Cap are the only Zeldas I played when they were new (within 1 year of release)

[bright girder]

for me its all of them starting with OoT, lifelong fan

[visual folio]

Okami I might've played when it was new, definitely close to it

[civic hawk]

ALBW released in 2013 and I was definitely around at the time, in the zelda community I mean
but I must've been... like, 10 years old

then Majora's in 2015 I remember that one very well, much hype

I just never had the chance to play them at the time unfortunately, so BOTW was my first Zelda I played just as it came out, and recently TOTK

[visual folio]

I did end up watching a video that went into detail about the MM changes people did not like; despite having not played MM I get it

[civic hawk]

It was my first shared experience

[civic hawk]

:flutternod:

[unique dagger]

LA remake was the first one i played on release. BotW i didn't get until July 2017

[civic hawk]

It's a whole bunch of ''oh that's actually a neat change'' followed by ''oohh.... ohhhhh no......''

Nerrel has a great video on it and he's a content creator I love watching

(he even has a video on fixed camera angle systems )

[bright girder]

july 2017 is close enough to release

[civic hawk]

Just playing it the same year it released in is close enough for me