they should do a lot more damage to justify how unwieldy they are
#Zelda Legend of Link The Legend of
civic hawk
also, kind of beating a dead horse at this point but the fact that Bolson doesn't seem to recognize me, which happens with some other NPCs like Kilton, further reinforces that feeling of this game being disconnected from BOTW for me 
but we've had that discussion a lot of times by now I think
unique dagger
lol i love the big chu chus
civic hawk
I wanna eat one
just a lil nibble
not the best contraption but it'll do
also, this forced me to learn that there's apparently a limit to how many things can be glued at once
Repeatedly the wheels would glue off, the wood would also glue itself off, I thought something was wrong until I realized that there's probably too many things glued at once and it's forcefully removing them
visual folio
21 or 23 parts, I think?
civic hawk
Let me count 
there's 15 wood there, plus 2 wooden bars, plus 2 wood wheels, plus 2 zonai wheels, plus a steering stick...
visual folio
according to a r/HyruleEngineering comment I read weeks ago, nobody has a workaround for the part limit (yet???)
civic hawk
Yeah like 22 parts seems to be exactly the number
I'm guessing just like the limit to how many items can be dropped until they despawn that it's some sort of memory saving thing
I doubt anything can be done about it
visual folio
probably
civic hawk
hmmmmm
this isn't gonna work
I have a better idea
damn this game's good physics engine, all those logs were so heavy the entire thing was falling apart
I got attacked by some skeletons and accidentally hit one of the logs and destroyed it
visual folio
is this for rebuilding Lurelin or whatever its name was?
lean pike
it was for me
civic hawk
I ended up just attaching the wheels directly to the log bundle
well that sounds like a much easier thing to do...
lean pike
it wasn't
the big zonai wheels have a sort of... procedural thing going on for the placement of the spoke, so I had to basically turn the whole bundle on its side and attach each wheel that way instead of letting it auto attach and lift the bundle up because it didn't quite recognize it as being a valid edge.
civic hawk
Mhmm, yeah
it's annoying to attach wheels
gotta attach them before even starting to build the whole thing
visual folio
huh, I thought whenever I attached wheels last I just looked at the big arrow and turned them around if it was the wrong way
lean pike
I also built it in the wrong location and had to travel something half the map to the village
lean pike
huh, I thought whenever I attached wheels last I just looked at the big arrow an...
it depends on what you're attraching to. I think the developers probably added a bunch of hidden helper empties (or the like) to help the wheels find their position
For example, if you pull out the sled and go to attach a wheel to the side, it'll automatically go for the little nub on the sides of the sled
civic hawk
huh, I thought whenever I attached wheels last I just looked at the big arrow an...
We're talking about placing the wheels into a vehicle and making them fit correctly which sometimes requires to flip around the entire thing because the wheel just won't glue into the correct position otherwise, not talking about the correct way to face the wheels 
glad isle
Rockets go brrrr
civic hawk
''together we will rebuild the buildings of the village!''
Link: ''what buildings?''
I love how much of an asshole Link is sometimes when answering these dialogues
visual folio
if you want him to be
glad isle
Do rockets like burn out after a brief period
visual folio
yes
visual folio
rockets burn up after a fixed time no matter what contraption they're a part of
and putting multiple rockets on the same contraption doesn't even stack their thrust, you get the same lift with 1 as with 10
(unless you go to the trouble of staging of course)
lean pike
SpaceX: "reusable rockets are cool"
Zonai: "Not for us!"
visual folio
having a few spare dozen in your pocket for rocket shield jumps is always nice though
glad isle
Ah dang
civic hawk
easily the most useful zonan devices along with the springs
pyon~
very useful for vertical platforming
lean pike
I never used the spring tbh
visual folio
I often used springs when they were given to me
lean pike
the most useful device is probably the fan tbh
unique dagger
absolutely
glad isle
There's still a ton I haven't seen yet
lean pike
I guess you could say I'm a real fan of it
glad isle
I've deliberately been avoiding any media for the game
unique dagger
fan, big wheel, and steering stick are the most useful i think
bright girder
Big Wheel mentioned
lean pike
least useful is probably the spotlight and the spike
civic hawk
I wouldn't say the spike is the least useful
I've used it to attach some stuff like springs to it in unstable places
visual folio
I don't think I ever used spikes outside of the spike puzzles myself
it has its uses but they're not the sort of thing I do with these games
civic hawk
honestly they all clearly serve a function so they're not useless it's mostly ones that you are less likely to constantly use vs ones that you'd use all the time
I haven't used the elemental head thingies for example but I've used plenty of fans, rockets, springs, planes, wheels and sticks
bright girder
definitely several of them I never pulled out in my 150 hours
visual folio
you could maybe call the light useless since lightseeds are basically always better for illumination
but at least it blinds enemies?
there are several I never used, but if I say that e.g. the cooking pot is one of them, I'm sure someone will turn around and tell me it was amazing for them
civic hawk
I also never really used the stabilizers, the golem head or the roomba thingy, not even the mirrors, because outside of specific puzzles that already give you some way to reflect light I haven't found myself really using them for anything
the light device is definitely not that great, it only gives light in a specific tunnel like cone and it uses up the battery so most of the times having a light flower is just much better for visibility
and it doesn't waste battery, so much better
visual folio
I also never really used the stabilizers, the golem head or the roomba thingy, n...
yep, those parts are great for crazy vehicle builds, but most of us aren't doing much of that
unique dagger
golem head ?
visual folio
the one that turns toward enemies
unique dagger
oh yes
civic hawk
unique dagger
i haven't built as many mechs as i thought i would
it's mostly just been vehicles to get over gloom
lean pike
the mechs would be better if you could build them and have them follow you/give them commands
because it's not exactly easy or fast to build them in the middle of a fight
civic hawk
I don't think I've ever even built a single one and I still have no idea how it looks or what it does
I never found it necessary or felt like doing it
There's already so many things you can do it's easy to forget about these relatively unnecessary additions
lean pike
the simplest is to attach them to a vehicle, if you attach it to a homing cart it'll attack automatically as it gets close
bright girder
check out this guy I just saved in Twilight Princess
unique dagger
oh
ok his name is
Charlie then
hello Charlie
why do the silver bokoblin horns looks so ugly ๐ญ
civic hawk
the funny part is that it's a pretty easy fix, just remove that weird ball at the top
wet forge
Pikmin moblin
unique dagger
i love the blue lizalfos horn
wet forge
I never noticed that they looked different
unique dagger
and the black boss bokoblin horn
bright girder
blue lizalfos is gr8
unique dagger
OH and the uhhh
i can't remember if it's silver or white maned Lynel
yeah silver Lynel horn
it's so cool
civic hawk
That's Silver
unique dagger
i love it
civic hawk
I love that I've gotten used to using the master sword not for fighting but for mining rocks because it technically never breaks and it also works pretty well at mining
so much for the sword that seals the darkness
wet compass
in BOTW the koroks tell you not to waste it hitting rocks
its like the only thing i do with it in both games lol
civic hawk
Zelda after all the work she's done looking at Link fucking around using the legendary sword to break some rocks like
the hero turning out to be a complete idiot would be a great plot for a comedic zelda spin off thing
unique dagger
i always hcd that Zelda I Link isn't the brightest
visual folio
one of my favorite parts of the TP manga was Link screwing up so badly it created a whole extra arc (though there was nothing comedic about it)
unique dagger
i mean he calls snakes ropes and bats keys
visual folio
is that a translation issue?
unique dagger
idk lol
civic hawk
one of my favorite parts of the TP manga was Link screwing up so badly it create...
I can see that, I mean he technically screws up in both TOTK and BOTW, he's not perfect so he's gonna make mistakes
but I'm talking like, actual buffoon levels of idiot
unique dagger
Ganon was also spelled Gannon back then because nothing mattered it was the NES who give a shit
NES games are so funny
civic hawk
considering Zelda 1 Link doesn't even have a triforce (although maybe nowadays this could be retconned) I can see Zelda 1 Link not being quite like the other Links
he really could be just some random kid
bright girder
today I learned that if you use fire balls on the world 1-7 Bowsers he turns into another enemy as if you burned the disguise
in Super Mario Bros NES
unique dagger
he really could be just some random kid
he was ! the only reason he got roped into saving Zelda was because he rescued Impa from Moblins
of course none of that was in the game it was in the manual
civic hawk
''that's what I get for helping grandma... ''
visual folio
wow, Impa goes way back
civic hawk
wow, Impa goes way back
most of the main stuff is pretty much there since day 1 yeah
by Link to the Past's release a lot of the more common Zelda stuff was already solidified
visual folio
I'll probably start LttP after Sable btw (again, unless we want to sync on LBW)
unique dagger
๐๐๐
visual folio
not to mention Sable is like half of a BotW anyway 
civic hawk
Hmmm... well I'm definitely trying to wrap up in TOTK these past few days as I've been playing a lot, I'm definitely aiming to finish as soon as possible but all this stuff is proving to take longer than anticipated, probably will take me a couple of days more but if possible I'd like to wrap up the shrines this session if I can though I'm not sure
Link to the Past is around... a bit over 10 hours to complete unless you regularly get stuck on dungeons since sometimes it can be tricky to figure some stuff out but if you think you can finish the entirety of Link to the Past before I finish TOTK sure
civic hawk
It would definitely be ''better'' for you to play Link to the Past first if you're already planning to tackle Link Between Worlds just because they're pretty connected and I'm sure a lot of things will be familiar and you'll probably understand more references than I will since I haven't played Link to the Past but of course it's not like it's required at all
just connected enough that it'd probably add to the experience
visual folio
cool
hopefully I can fit all this in between the TV and movies I'm also committed to 
wet compass
i've bever played lttp but i have played lbw and enjoyed it perfectly fine
bright girder
its kinda like playing OoT before MM
"Oh I know this guy in that other game wonder what hes like in this one"
civic hawk
I'm already chronicling most of my progress here each session as it is and everytime I finish something significant like lightroots or shrines I'll say it here so if you notice I'm getting close before you start to play Link to the Past maybe tell me or I'll leave it up to you to wager which you want to start 
civic hawk
should've made it an eventide style island 
I'm just using the tools the game gives me!
glad isle
Can't decide if I wanna explore more of the hyrule field and plateau area, the depths, or just go to Hebra
visual folio
if it helps, completing the main questline in Hebra will give you an ability that extends glide distance, which most of us found super useful for exploration thereafter
glad isle
Good to know
civic hawk
I wonder if I was the only one that went to Gerudo first 
wet forge
if it helps, completing the main questline in Hebra will give you an ability tha...
Bruh that sounds great
visual folio
you haven't done that yet!?
wet forge
What, a buff that extends glide distance? I dont' think I've gotten such a thing
civic hawk
el ''caballito'' gigante
(light spoilers of a shrine related quest/obtainable mount)
visual folio
||I'm talking about Tulin's ability to generate wind periodically||
unique dagger
>el ''caballito'' gigante
<:rdsnrk:587780329335422977>
(light spoilers of a sh...
love this guy
||the horse i mean||
civic hawk
I named him Rinku
all these horse guys like that one and the ones near where you find it are pretty wholesome, all they talk about is how beautiful horses are and how passionate they are about them and horse riding
unique dagger
one of my favourite armour sets
civic hawk
oh god I have || a tail!! || 
unique dagger
ye !
civic hawk
lol that's cute
civic hawk
oh my god she looks just like him
that was wholesome
hooooooooohohohohohoohohooooooohhh maaaaan!
yes yes yes gimme gimme gimme
civic hawk
I welcome y'all to my crib
second floor is the display/storage area
kinda sucks the outside looks so shitty but the inside is so damn cozy
I love it
Oh fuck I actually love this, spoilered because I know you'll find it funny once you click on it
(yes, I have pictures of her in my gallery, don't judge)
I'm glad I did this because I actually had fun doing it lol
wet compass
alrighty, so that's all done!
(spoilers for all shrine completion)
Told you
Worth it
bright girder
my house picture is zelda in a cage
unique dagger
<:sunnybeam:891104809808175125>
this is a very sweet quest
also your house is nice Nire
civic hawk
thank you 
I may record a little video later showing the outside and inside better, I have to park my horse in the back and put some more feesh in the pond
I enjoy allowing the player to create their own dream house 
if you're purely utilitarian you can build a little shed to cook and sleep and or storage stuff in, and if you want to create a cozy little virtual space of your own that you can call home and decorate with 'useless' stuff, you can do that too
supple quarry
It was a great idea, and also made endgame rupees still worth something
civic hawk
The only thing that I still want is if they gave you a little plot ( 
) of land so that you can grow your own veggies and stuff
It would probably have required some in-depth system of seeds and stuff but I would've been fine with that, it would've been an amazing way to make farming certain materials less tedious by giving you direct control of it, somewhat, you'd still probably need to wait a day or so for the veggie to grow and water it but at least if you wanted some carrots or some of those radishes you could just plant them and grow them yourself
I would've liked that
but, at least this time they let me hang a giant picture of Riju on the wall of my house, so I think that makes up for it
unique dagger
ooh farming would have been cool yeah
unique dagger
supple quarry
visual folio
you know we all would
civic hawk
when you let go his ears go boioioioiong
civic hawk
now that I got Golshi all settled in in the back, here's a thorough but brief house tour
civic hawk
I'm frogge
Penn retired to the spot where Kass/Nyel was in BOTW
just enjoying the moment with my birb bro before the end
he's all melancholic because we've already finished all our stories for the newspaper, meanwhile I'm already at the end of my adventure too
Soar long...
civic hawk
I have attained perfection
well, I have some 'unimportant' side quests left to complete, mostly just random npc quests and requests but even all my ''side adventures'' (not side quests for some reason) are all done
So I'm pretty much at the endgame now, I can go finish whenever I want to
unique dagger
finished my Zelda I outfit, i used the Wind Waker shield because it looks the most similar to the one from Zelda I
civic hawk
Isn't the Zelda 1 outfit just the Hero's set?
civic hawk
Yes that's what you're wearing but the Hero set is the Zelda 1 outfit
at least I think
civic hawk
was randomly listening to the spirit temple track and it made me think I find it interesting how the Sheikah went from this more Persian/Egyptian-ish vibe to a more traditionally Japanese one more reminiscent of ninja aesthetics
tepid depot
now that you mention it, yeah I do see the transition
but both are cool so I don't really care
civic hawk
all the more middle eastern/south asian aesthetics and vibes went more to the Gerudo after that, which only showed up again in BOTW/TOTK, even Sheik's latter appearances in Zelda Musou and Smash adapted her look into a more ninja aesthetics
I like both too, I think I understand the change, it probably makes more sense for a civilization focused on staying in the dark and out of sight, but I do think it's pretty interesting and I hope they go back to that other aesthetic sometime even if just once
visual folio
btw, I'm starting JP Link to the Past / Kamigami no Triforce in quiet vc now
unique dagger
civic hawk
enjoy
I guess if you're starting that I'll make some time before I finish TOTK, I'll go hunting for the remaining armor sets I haven't gotten yet
I don't really need them at this point but you can never have too much drip
Considering how quick you finished TOTK I fully expect you to finish lttp in a couple of days tops
wet forge
btw, I'm starting JP Link to the Past / Kamigami no Triforce in quiet vc now
Nice!!
LttP is so good
unique dagger
so true
it might be my favourite
idk
it's a tossup between BotW, TotK, and LttP
unique dagger
yes
wet forge
3D, I'm torn between BotW, OoT, MM and TP
unique dagger
good choices
wet forge
WW is very good, but I just don't think it's quite in the running for best
The weakness of it is the fact that the islands had to be so far apart (and also small) due to technical limits of the GameCube
wet compass
i would love a windwaker 2
unique dagger
im just waiting for the Switch ports :copium:
wet forge
Yeah, true
I would love a TP 2, but that's never happening
I felt like they hit the right atmosphere with it
wet compass
TP was amazing but i dont see much point for a TP2
its already OOT2
civic hawk
technically phantom hourglass/spirit tracks is WW2 
and TP2 was gonna happen but Miyamoto didn't want them to do it
unique dagger
but those games are bad
wet forge
technically phantom hourglass/spirit tracks is WW2 <:ajlie:585560130800844800>
We don't talk about those
wet compass
WW 's boteworld was unique, and i'd love to see its concept expanded upon more
unique dagger
Spirit Tracks was unfortunately my first Zelda
civic hawk
he didn't want the team developing Link's Crossbow Training to actually make the game have a story and be a sequel of TP and have this epic story
he just wanted it to be a game to showcase the gimmick
wet forge
Spirit Tracks was unfortunately my first Zelda
I'm sorry
civic hawk
the dev team had ideas for bosses and the story but they all got shut down
unique dagger
the first Zelda i actually beat was Zelda 1
wet compass
i suppose BOTW was WW2 as its the only game with such huge tracts of land for exploration as oppose to huge tracts of water
wet forge
BotW kinda distills all the best ideas from previous games across the franchise and puts them into one game
You can kinda argue it's a soft reboot
lean pike
except the dungeons
unique dagger
im convinced BotW and TotK are a soft reboot since they don't fit anywhere on the timeline
wet forge
im convinced BotW and TotK are a soft reboot since they don't fit anywhere on th...
That and they plan to keep this format going forward
lean pike
they're actually gearing up for the urban legend of zelda game
unique dagger
nO
lean pike
where the zonai invade hyrule as aliens
wet compass
the beasts are fine
they're only "bad" in comparison to prior zelda games and indeed compared to the rest of the gmae itself
when most of the game is a 9/10, the 7/10 beasts stand out a lot more
wet forge
Aye
unique dagger
the "urban" Zelda idea was one that was considered for BotW
lean pike
and a cigar smoking, motorcycle riding Link, has to take his master sword (now a shotgun) and defend Hyrule from the invaders
unique dagger
we're very lucky we didn't end up with this
wet forge
Yeah I see you Nire and I'm not joking. The series director said as much in an interview shortly after TotK came out.
lean pike
instead of an ocarina, Link now beatboxes
wet forge
The game structure of OoT/MM/TP and such are "too restrictive" according to him and they plan all future games to have this open-ended design for the foreseeable future.
lean pike
the only way it'll work is if Link finally gets out of hyrule
wet forge
They will indeed need to make a new map from scratch
They can't just recycle this again and again
lean pike
maybe he ||hops on his dragon waifu (Zelda is now a weredragon) and goes to holorum or whatever||
wet forge
This will only work once
unique dagger
did they mean open world format or same world and characters as BotW/TotK ?
wet forge
Open world
civic hawk
unique dagger
oh ok
wet forge
Not necessarily the same characters, but it seems like they may actually stick to a more consistent timeline
We'll see
But he specifically meant the open world format
He also talked about exploring Ganondorf, which was interesting
Would be wild if we got a game where you play as Ganondorf
Young Ganondorf, origin story wheee /s
becomes the first M rated Zelda
lean pike
rated M for metroid
wet forge
Give me an M rated Metroid Prime game ffs
lean pike
Zelda dons the suit to fight Ganondorf after Link gets bonked on the head
unique dagger
eh
lean pike
IMO, I'm sort of leaning towards this being an attempt to really tighten the lore
unique dagger
i don't really know what an M rating would really add other than Samus saying fuck or something
lean pike
even though it oddly overwrites a lot of Skyward Sword
wet forge
IMO, I'm sort of leaning towards this being an attempt to really tighten the lor...
100% concur, I'm convinced that's what they're doing
lean pike
Samus is now naked under her suit
wet forge
Just like in Metroid NES!
lean pike
it's like she's wearing nothing at all
wet forge
i don't really know what an M rating would really add other than Samus saying fu...
You can explore even darker themes and add on more Alien-inspired horror, there's so much they could do.
There are already some rather unnerving themes here and there in the lore
lean pike
Zelda dons the suit to fight Ganondorf after Link gets bonked on the head
(after Link wakes up)
"I had the most wonderful dream... I was a plastic toy inside of a whale's dream"
"You're fucking weird, Link"
"Also I think I might have killed everyone else by accident"
wet forge
100% concur, I'm convinced that's what they're doing
And honestly I welcome a reboot of the lore.
civic hawk
''I dreamt that... I was a wolf...?''
Zelda slowly furrows brow 
wet forge
Fix the timeline, gain consistent lore, explore stories and characters in much more depth
lean pike
I don't really think it's a reboot of the lore so much as... I'm not even sure what to call it
cleaning shit up so it's less all over the place?
wet forge
Rehash
lean pike
like skyward sword has basically a bunch of species, playing the same niches, and they're all new
in fact, half the time it feels like they're making a new species for the games
civic hawk
It definitely feels like a reboot or at least a clearly separate entirely new timeline at least but honestly I'm not really a huge fan of it and I'd be totally fine if the next game does something completely different and goes back to a more traditional structure
wet forge
''I dreamt that... I was a wolf...?''
*Zelda slowly furrows brow* <:pippconcern...
Zelda gradually becoming concerned that her boyfriend is a furry
civic hawk
I don't really care about the Zonai and the ancient Sheikah got boring to me and this isn't even that interesting of a Ganondorf compared to the other Ganondorf
lean pike
Like, there's the minish, but do htey even exist?
wet forge
They're quite smol
lean pike
even the lore there is weird, you have the minish, who have a magic sword, but it's not the master sword, it just kinda does the same thing?
like I feel like the game came out before they really established the idea of there being A sword, the master sword
is OoT the first game it appears?
unique dagger
no
civic hawk
Zelda gradually becoming concerned that her boyfriend is a furry
''I just don't know what's going on with him anymore...''
''Oh Zelda he suffered a head injury and he just woke up, this is normal, he'll recover.''
''Impa it's been weeks and he keeps walking on all fours around the castle and barking at people.''
unique dagger
LttP
the Zelda I Master Sword equivalent was the Magic Sword
er
it might have been the White Sword
no White Sword was the second one
civic hawk
like I feel like the game came out before they really established the idea of th...
Minish Cap came out in 2004 so it came out after LTTP, OOT and Windwaker all had the master sword
lean pike
yes
civic hawk
I never had that much of a problem with the lore being ''messy'' since it's clear the devs never really intended for these games to be connected linearly and even with the current official timeline they've stated it's open to changes, it's just that fans obsessed so much with connecting it coherently when it was never meant to be outside of specific games like OOT with Winwdaker and TP
lean pike
I suppose I should say that ti came out before there was a real sense of an established sword in the public's mind
at some point nintendo must have realized this was the case
civic hawk
So having a 'new' timeline/reboot to make everything more consistent doesn't appeal to me because the entire idea of Zelda is that it's this sort of anthology with all these different time periods and worlds and differences rather than the same one every entry
I'm pretty sure the master sword became iconic with OOT
unique dagger
they should bring back the gold Master Sword
wet forge
They might continue that anthology approach, we just don't know. All we know is that the series director Eiji Aonuma wants to keep using the open world format.
unique dagger
gold Master Sword so cool
bright girder
Just fuse it to a mighty banana
unique dagger
true...
wet forge
Gold Master Sword was a thing?
bright girder
We're gonna get golden lynel horns at some point too
unique dagger
yeah
wet forge
When?
unique dagger
it was the highest tier of Master Sword in LttP
wet forge
Oh, that
bright girder
you got light master sword in WW and TP too
unique dagger
civic hawk
I'm so tired of open world already that's bad news to me
wet forge
Yeah, same.
civic hawk
a regular good ol' single player campaign isn't ''restrictive'' at all
wet forge
I agree, but shrug
civic hawk
you can have it be open ended like BOTW without making it open world, if you let the players go wherever they want and do things in whatever order they want without constantly holding their hand like other Zelda titles usually do it'd be great and you don't have to make it open world 
that's why after TOTK I'm gonna go for Link Between Worlds
unique dagger
open worlds like Zelda I and BotW are more interesting to me
civic hawk
I want that nice traditional experience
wet forge
The worst part of it is that the progression is nonlinear
That severely detracts from what you can actually do with your narrative
As demonstrated in TotK, you have to repeat yourself a lot
civic hawk
So that was the imprisoning war....
wet forge
That was so clumsy
civic hawk
it's also the exact same story beat for beat as BOTW so it ends up feeling like you played the same game twice just bigger this time
wet forge
Deeply uncahracteristic of Nintendo
lean pike
for me, the biggest problem is just that Tears felt like it had already maxed out the limits of the formula.
civic hawk
Link and Zelda lose
Link wakes up alone and in a chamber of sorts
ANOTHER ancient civilization with more advanced tech
Gotta go find and rescue gf
Gotta gather 4 champions and their abilities (plus one more this time)
Gotta fight Ganon..... dorf this time! But he's a new one? And we won't elaborate on him or his story
wet forge
for me, the biggest problem is just that Tears felt like it had already maxed ou...
Yeahhhh
lean pike
Like... you can repeat the same game formula over and over again, but you need some sort of hook. Like with pokemon, it's, you know, the pokemon. For Mario games it's the sheer well craftedness of the platforming plus fun twists on the same formula. With Zelda, it was often the dungeons and story. but the story in Tears suffers from the insistance on an open story structure and the dungeons are mostly just okay. For the same reasons, actually
wet forge
Yep
There's only so much you can do without doing a looot more work with yet more specifically crafted mechanics, but at that point the scale of the project just becomes incredibly unweildy.
Five years becomes insufficient
civic hawk
The main draw of BOTW was definitely the break from usual conventions for Zelda and that feeling of freshness and something new, didn't mean that the traditional Zelda was bad at all, but it does mean that you can't just.. keep going with this formula because it's kinda entirely dependent on the fact that it's open and open world and that gets pretty tiresome quick as opposed to the tight uniquely designed dungeons and stories of the previous Zeldas
It's especially annoying for me because I've done so many ''useless'' quests in BOTW and TOTK that in my eyes could've totally been removed in favor of more main story or more meat in the story instead
I was even expecting a lot more to be done with Ganondorf this time around like what they tried to do with him in Windwaker where he kind of reflects on himself and his past actions and how he started his quest because he wanted the same peace that's in Hyrule for his land and his people because the deserts were a very hostile enviroment unlike Hyrule, but no I only really saw Ganondorf already there and being evil because evil gotta be evil
I assume the only thing left for me to see is just the ending and I doubt there's gonna be a huge story dump right at the end, that'd be silly if that's what they decide to go for
unique dagger
the final boss is awesome
TotK has the best Master Sword pulling and best final boss in the series imo
civic hawk
I think OOT's Master Sword pull is still the most iconic and best in the entire franchise but this game's was magical and one of the few things I think it did great from a story perspective
the only bad part is || you're literally pulling a sword from Zelda's head which is kinda gruesome ||
unique dagger
||i kinda figured since she's a dragon it didn't hurt her considering weapons don't do any damage to dragons||
bright girder
||She screams and tries to shake you off 
||
unique dagger
oh yeah i guess
civic hawk
I'm going to assume that it's just her || protecting the master sword from anyone not worthy of it since she's not really thinking at all anymore and is just a mindless creature ||
unique dagger
creacher
lean pike
I'm pretty sure ||it was just in her hair tbh||
civic hawk
I love how we're all surrounding him and beating his ass while he's down
''fucking GET HIM''
bright girder
this gif is crazy I feel like im about to get punched in the face
civic hawk
you are
Jerma is in your home
visual folio
what was all that stuff earlier about lore rehashing/rebooting?
oh wow, even the great fairy springs go back this far
civic hawk
Great Fairies are in Zelda 1 too
visual folio
next you'll tell me Zelda was in Zelda 1
bright girder
lets see if you guys can get this crazy hard zelda trivia question right
Which game was the first to feature the Skull kid?
visual folio
Majora's Mask /s
civic hawk
next you'll tell me Zelda was in Zelda 1
how'd you know
visual folio
hm, so I need 3 "crests of courage", and then I can get the Master Sword from the forest
boy that sounds more than a little familiar
unique dagger
yes
civic hawk
fun fact, the first zelda didn't have a triforce of courage 
visual folio
I had heard that, wasn't it something like you gather 8 Triforce "shards" but there are no types?
civic hawk
it was introduced in the best game ever made, Adventure of Link
Yeah, Zelda split her triforce into a bunch of shards
It's the triforce of Wisdom and Ganon has the one of power
but poor Link was left without any
unique dagger
I had heard that, wasn't it something like you gather 8 Triforce "shards" but th...
you have to gather up the Triforce of Wisdom that Zelda split up so Ganon wouldn't get it
visual folio
all right, I think I'm finally in the 1st non-tutorial dungeon
visual folio
wow I have >400 rupees and nothing to spend them on
next time I pass by a village I am checking every building for a shop
huh, the compass only tells you where the boss is
ooooh big keys aren't just for the boss door
unique dagger
tunic of time so good
visual folio
I have a bow 
visual folio
I also just realized that a huge chunk of the menu screen is listing all the things the A button can do
I assume because that wasn't common sense back then
ah, a single big key covers all of the big locks, it's not a consumable like the small keys
visual folio
whoa, the braziers provide light in other rooms
that was a weird boss but yay first try
8-bit victory music
oh it refilled my magic bar as well as my health
visual folio
yes it's very good lol
I guess the most interesting thing I have to add is that combat is significantly more skillful than I expected from the very start, even when you have no equipment and only four directions to attack in
pegasus boots!
hm, same damage as a regular sword swing
unique dagger
woohoo i finally got my second row of hearts
civic hawk
yes it's very good lol
he's in
visual folio
ok this is one of those games where water is painful
civic hawk
do you miss some aspects of TOTK's game design while playing this? It seems like you're really liking it and getting used to it pretty quickly
I'd assume most people that played 3D Zelda and jump to 2D would have a period of adapting or getting used to it
visual folio
well my mental comparison point is very much Minish Cap over TotK
actually
is the GBA more or less powerful than a SNES?
civic hawk
I meant it more since that's the last one you played and most recent in your memory
More
visual folio
ok, that would've been my guess
I suppose mostly I'm surprised that this doesn't really feel like a downgrade from Minish Cap
I know people always say "LttP/OoT/<other old game> set a bar that newer games have met but not surpassed" but you don't expect that to be actually true for (S)NES-era stuff
granted this is only impressions from the first hour or so, and of course it's pretty bare bones on the storytelling (which is totally fine in a Zelda)
ok I have 599 rupees, let's see what the fortune teller does
oh he heals you too
that's not a ripoff at all actually
civic hawk
Yeah there's a reason why nobody ever shuts up about link to the past 
in this case whenever people say that it really is true
hell, for some people, Minish Cap would be the downgrade to LTTP
visual folio
tbf I do wish I could assign more than one item to a button at a time
civic hawk
Of course, but it is a 1991 game and the one that really solidified the entire formula up until now so there's gonna be quirks like that
visual folio
so far that's maybe the only one that's an actual problem
the rest is silly things like replaying the victory jingle every time you enter a room you've solved before
civic hawk
I remember a similar complaint about Metal Gear and similar issues when people went back to play it and had to assign stuff to buttons because you couldn't just use items from the menu or equip more stuff
No amount of timeless, masterpiece game design will make up for that type of tedious stuff
visual folio
well... metal gear is a whole other situation lol
civic hawk
the rest is silly things like replaying the victory jingle every time you enter ...
So just like how everytime you do something in TOTK the game sees it necessary to both play a jingle and take away your control to show you a useless cutscene of a door opening or a chest appearing every single time?
that also stuck around unfortunately
visual folio
huh, I just learned that when Link swings his sword, and the animation shows him holding his shield off to the side, it actually deflects arrows coming from the side
visual folio
So just like how everytime you do something in TOTK the game sees it necessary t...
no no no, that's when you do the thing the jingle is about
I mean in LttP when you "win" a room that plays a jingle
when I left the room, and turned around and walked right back in, it played the jingle again
(the tutorial dungeon has a room that jingles at a sort of T-intersection where I had to go through it multiple times)
civic hawk
ahh, maybe it's to let you know you don't need to do anything else in that room
visual folio
this random nobody in a cave just gave me 300 rupees
visual folio
unique dagger
yeah
visual folio
also, does my wallet max out at 999?
unique dagger
yes
unique dagger
later
visual folio
cool
visual folio
yes
unique dagger
cause it's ice
visual folio
welp, guess I'll have to put off the sage's advice for later then
hm... desert temple it is, I'm already on the south edge of the map
unique dagger
what is Sahasrahla called in Japanese
visual folio
pretty close to that, it was a katakana name
civic hawk
this random nobody in a cave just gave me 300 rupees <:ppenk:681838745611141137>
wish a random hillbilly in a cave gave me money
visual folio
oh right this isn't the gerudo desert, it's just magic/mystery/??? desert
visual folio
oh fuck I accidentally reset the game
visual folio
ok, well, now I notice it's not a modern game lol
visual folio
fortunately I had a save state near the end of the first dungeon, and a lot of what I just did around lake hylia was exploring and finding nothing that interesting yet so I can actually just not redo a lot of that
the boss is very easy on a redo lol
civic hawk
pretty cool how so many of these names go all the way back 
visual folio
huh, if I do the intended in-game save, quit, load, it asks me if I want to start back at Link's house or at the church
unique dagger
i can't even remember the Eastern Palace boss
visual folio
for some reason these fuzzy centipede things I had to hit with arrows to reach 300 rupee guy are much harder to hit now, or having only 10 arrows makes it inconsistent, so I guess I won't bother trying to redo that since I hardl need the rupees anyway
it was 6 purple knight statue things, the last one turns red, arrows make it super easy if you have enough
visual folio
I don't think I'm supposed to be in this dungeon yet, but it allowed me to open a floodgate
oh that exposed a heart piece
maybe those two rooms were the whole thing then
and I've made it back to the "please don't take my sign" guy
civic hawk
President Hudson signs?
visual folio
hm, I've finally run into moonrunes I cannot read
civic hawk
oh, you literally can't read it
I thought you meant as in ''I don't understand this kanji'' or something
visual folio
unique dagger
you have to get the Book !
visual folio
yeah I've run out of desert to explore
supple quarry
(not to derail Ixrec's playthrough) I've been doing MM Rando today and it's a ton of fun. I need to do zora eggs now so that's enough MM for today 
visual folio
and if I hadn't randomly tried the fortuneteller, I would've had no way of knowing about the book
civic hawk
๐
visual folio
so... good thing I didn't listen to you?
ooooh I'm supposed to knock the book off the bookcase now that I have the power of running into things aren't I
visual folio
yup that did it
and here I was expecting "Here's some boots. BTW there's neat stuff across the lake." to be a hint that I could run across water or something
but nope, the real power is running into walls
civic hawk
Narrator: And here we have, the hero... of Hyrule
Link: repeatedly slamming into walls and knocking shit over
The hero chosen by the goddesses....
visual folio
oh I have to equip the book
visual folio
what is Sahasrahla called in Japanese
ใตใในใฉใผใฉ sahasura-ra apparently, so that's a pretty good match
unique dagger
i love how they called it the power glove
visual folio
pawaa gurabu!
oh it is satisfying to finally be able to get these rocks out of my way
unique dagger
ye
unique dagger
woo !
ok tell me when you're about to pull the Master Sword caus ei wann be there for that
visual folio
since it's almost 2 am here I do not expect that to be tonight
but sure I'll ping when I'm closing in on the 3rd crest
unique dagger
epic
civic hawk
eternal bond with da waifu
also, pog, secret (?) dialogue
she comments on how I look like the ancient hero
unique dagger
that's so cool
visual folio
is it just me or does "pacto eterno" sound much closer to marriage than the English
civic hawk
I was gonna joke about that saying ''marriage acquired'' or something yeah
tepid depot
also, pog, secret (?) dialogue
unique dagger
GIMP RAT
visual folio
it's not Zelda without something randomly asking for several hundred rupees
visual folio
I was going to ask if these are meant to be zora lol
unique dagger
early Zora are more monster like they made them hot in Ocarina
civic hawk
Yeah Zora were enemy types for some time before OOT
unique dagger
jinx
civic hawk
even in 2d zeldas after OOT they still remain mostly enemy types I think
visual folio
lol he sold me the power of buoyancy but all the other zora are still shooting me
civic hawk
I know what you meant by that, but the way you phrased it makes me imagine the Zoras have guns and are actively shooting at Link everytime he walks by
glad isle
Am i the only one who finds the Tabantha region really boring to explore
visual folio
uh... the enormous canyon that borders Hebra / snowy Rito mountains?
visual folio
I always saw it as just a canyon instead of a "region", but yeah iirc there's only one location of interest there
civic hawk
It's not my favourite area
visual folio
unless you count the bridge I guess
aaah, that's what the deal is with these fairy music caves that have a seemingly unopenable door
"Yay! It's the master sword... or not. Too bad."
unique dagger
lmao
visual folio
ok, I delivered the mushroom, and escorted this guy up the first part of the mountain; I feel like stopping here for tonight
visual folio
and I stole the blue rupee he had in the back
unique dagger
oh btw
there's a bottle you can get now
i won't tell yoy where it is though unless you ask me
visual folio
yeah, unless there's some nonsense involved that'd leave me stuck with no idea what to do, I'd rather keep exploring for now
unique dagger
epic
visual folio
granted I might've gotten stuck if I hadn't used that fortune teller
unique dagger
ok so from my pov the fortune teller is a ripoff because i know what to do, i forgor this was your first time playing
visual folio
yeah, everything he tells you is stuff you could find on your own, if you bump into and remember the right things in the right order, but since I don't know what items open what places yet he is indeed very useful
I don't even know why I delivered that mushroom yet, I'm just trusting it leads somewhere
(I did find the witch on my own but she didn't say forest mushroom; the fortune teller added that word so then I could look for it)
unique dagger
i think she gives you the ||magic powder|| but im not certain
civic hawk
<:cadancewheeze:761000388232347658>
ใใฃใ!ใในใฟใผใฝใผใใใใ
ใงใฏใใชใๆงใ .
uhhh....
visual folio
ใ not ใ
civic hawk
ใ?
visual folio
the last 4 are katakana
civic hawk
ahhh, dewa nai
tepid depot
ใฏใใใใคใจใซใผใใพ
civic hawk
ใใฃใ!ใในใฟใผใฝใผใใใใ
ใงใฏใใชใ ๆงใ . ใถใณใใณ
that makes a lot more sense, I was struggling to find the correct symbols in my little table of hiragana/katakana lol
I knew in my heart that the last sentence was zan'nen but I couldn't find how to actually write it
visual folio
I appreciate that the inscription under the (real) master sword also required the book to read
civic hawk
It's supposedly ancient hylian for some reason even though link to the past is the first (?) in the timeline after OOT meaning that Hylian couldn't have changed that much in that time 
Maybe Link is just illiterate
visual folio
do I need to link the Timeline Timeline video again?
civic hawk
nah I'm joshing
I think I have the whole timeline discussion embedded into my mind since before BOTW even came out
visual folio
does the master sword pedestal even have an inscription in any of the later-released games?
civic hawk
Mmmm.....
I don't think so, no
OOT has an inscription before the pedestal in the temple of time
visual folio
yeah, if it's the same place then someone built a temple around it between LttP and OoT
civic hawk
all the other ones have so much exposition and information before getting to the master sword or as you get to it that a pedestal with an inscription is kind of redundant
visual folio
even in LttP I basically knew what it was telling me before I read it
but it was possible to go there before you hear it from Saharawhatever
civic hawk
I wonder if the one in ALBW will be the same one as LTTP, it should be anyways
I know the one in BOTW looks super close to the one in LTTP
visual folio
although having the deku tree right next to it is a pretty big change
civic hawk
oh hey it actually does look like it's the same one, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised
(also for some reason the other cover artworks have an ugly piss filter on them lol)
visual folio
come to think of it, TP had the master sword in a forest in what feels like ruins of a temple of time, but BotW has both time temple ruins and the sword in a totally different place?
I just saw a video where someone tries to make sense of the maps, I should know this
civic hawk
Well
Considering that BOTW has an entirely new origin for the kingdom of Hyrule, if we consider that BOTW and TP even share the same timeline/continuity, this might be a new Hyrule kingdom built perhaps generations after the 'original' Hyrule crumbled, so the temple of time in BOTW is probably not the same
the ruins are the ruins of the temple of time yeah, and interestingly the pedestal and areas you get the master sword in TP and Link to the Past are, supposedly, the same
Both are in the Sacred Grove, but no ruins of the temple of time in link to the past (obviously)
visual folio
aaah, the Zelda maps video I was thinking of applies "the Master Sword can't be moved" only when we see Link put it back, but LttP is on the Hero of Time Defeated timeline so it could've been moved by anyone else
I also derped and forgot TP is on a separate timeline and OoT is before all of this
civic hawk
Yeah, the sword probably can't be wielded by just anyone, but if Link were to happen to lose it or worse die with it it can definitely be carried by someone else, it's not like others can't just pick it up
Probably Zelda before dying too managed to escape and put it wherever it is by the time of Link to the Past, the one in TP is the one that was put back into the pedestal like Link does at the end of each game
the one that doesn't quite fit with this is the one in Windwaker since the pedestal and the sword are in Hyrule Castle and in a secret chamber below it I assume since it couldn't be moved they built the castle around and above it especially after Hyrule got flooded
visual folio
...funny you should mention that
I was just rewatching this guy's Wind Waker comments, and he points out that in Wind Waker there's both a Hyrule Castle and a Ganon's Tower, even though in OoT Ganon's Tower replaced the castle
so there's a decent amount of evidence that WW's timeline involved a castle rebuild for some reason
unique dagger
I know the one in BOTW looks super close to the one in LTTP
yes ! the BotW Master Sword pedestal even has the 3 blue flowers the LttP one does !
in game i mean
visual folio
3 blue flowers?
civic hawk
so there's a decent amount of evidence that WW's timeline involved a castle rebu...
for some reason
maybe the fact that all of Hyrule got massively flooded
visual folio
maybe all the mist kept me from noticing this
unique dagger
the mist makes them look white
civic hawk
unique dagger
ye !!!
civic hawk
I was just rewatching this guy's Wind Waker comments, and he points out that in ...
also should be noted that Ganon's Tower looks nothing like Ganon's Castle
Hell, Ganon's Tower doesn't even look like any Gerudo or Hylian architecture at all either
it looks more like a Sheikah tower
visual folio
Ganon does tend to throw off any pretense of Gerudo-ness very quickly
civic hawk
He's not exactly one to show much pride in his heritage, hell in TOTK he's not even wearing anything that resembles Gerudo clothing, he's full on weeaboo mode with his katana and his traditional japanese looking robes
also he's green
the only instance I know of where he shows any amount of care about Gerudo is Windwaker when he mentions how harsh life in the desert was and how peaceful Hyrule seems in comparison and how he wanted that, but even then he barely mentions the safety and wellbeing of his people, Ganondorf's reign is usually (well, the one time we ever even saw him ruling Gerudo) very ruthless and cruel, so it's not like he seems to have any respect for the Gerudo other than his two surrogate moms
civic hawk
or, well, surrogate mom (singular) if you prefer I guess
also interestingly enough, they show up in TOTK too (at Ganondorf's sides), and they're also green unlike any other Gerudo ever asides from Ganondorf
So I guess Kotake and Koume were ''reincarnated'' too
civic hawk
The fabrics in their shoulders even spell out their names in Hylian just like their headbands in OOT
wet forge
Thatโs awesome
unique dagger
it could be like
maybe post game ||and they want revenge for you destroying Ganondorf||
civic hawk
They wouldn't be alive....
most likely I can imagine DLC could be the origins of Ganondorf
unique dagger
.....
right
i may have temporarily forgotten that cutscene takes place more than 10,000 years ago
idk maybe they froze themselves in carbonite like Han Solo and now they're in the present
glad isle
Doing stuff in TOTK around Rito Village. ||good lord do these sky platforms around the swirling cloud formation never end? Finally got to a shrine right as the temperature dropped||
No idea what's in store, can't wait lol
visual folio
I think that's everyone's favorite TotK dungeon build-up ||and yes you're well over halfway there lol||
visual folio
uh... 
bright girder
nice fursona xD
visual folio
do I have no choice but to save and reload lol
bright girder
isnt there a warp thing under one of the flowers
visual folio
I can't interact with any of the flowers
bright girder
do you have the mirror
visual folio
oooh
since Y, B and A were all not working I thought all my equipment was disabled
this dungeon looks fun
visual folio
that boss sucked so bad lol
even with shameless save state scumming it was a pain
@unique dagger master sword time
visual folio
I haz the thing
visual folio
this is going to suck
unique dagger
I haz the thing
WOOHOO !
visual folio
ok, made it back up here with full health so I can save state before the boss
is there any way to tell if he's about to do the lightning attack? seems like the same wind-up animation for everything, but I have to stand still to deflect the deflectable one reliably
unique dagger
iirc if he goes to the top middle of the screen then it's best to just avoid cause he does lightning most of the time
visual folio
sounds right, I don't remember him ever doing that from a different direction
ok so I wasn't missing any cues that part's just trial and error
anyway dark world time
visual folio
where the heck did you come from
visual folio
I am so lost in this dungeon but so far in the fun way
unique dagger
Dark World dungeons are hard
unique dagger
have you met Greedo yet
visual folio
I don't know, half the NPCs never name themselves
visual folio
ok work's over, back to trying to remember what the route to the big chest was
FINALLY I got the... MC Hammer? seriously?
ok in the menu it's just Magic Hammer
bright girder
Magic Hammer in english yeah
visual folio
huh, I have no idea how to damage this boss
oh there we go
I have acquired damsel in distress with convenient exposition
so many choices
unique dagger
I have acquired damsel in distress with convenient exposition
oh yeah i hope you like this monologue
visual folio
I feel like checking out Lake Hylia; I haven't been to either version of it since I acquired the power of buoyancy
bright girder
dont they have numbers in JP
visual folio
they do
bright girder
or did you just screenshot while they were flashing
visual folio
yep, had to pick either the crystals frame or the numbers frame
bright girder
I dont remember the intended order
but I did thieves hideout pretty early I think that has number 4
unique dagger
if you go to your housein the dark world you will find Greedo
visual folio
ah, then no I have not done that
woo, I finally figured out this room
ok I don't think I have what I need to get into the dark lake dungeon yet
at least not while my light/dark world teleportation is this asymmetric
oh I forgot how many of these paths are blocked off in the dark world
I should probably just explore wherever I can get to
huh
seems like I can only get to places east of the starting ziggurat
fortune teller says jump in the blacksmith's well, sure, let's try it
or not, there's no way to get to the spot I could jump from
I might be stuck for real this time, the fortune teller's only giving me 2 fortunes, both of which I've tried to do already (one I can't get to, the other I did but nothing happened)
visual folio
aaaaaah
see this is exactly why I always have to look stuff up for these games
I gave the witch the mushroom, she said come back later, I did come back later, she said come back later
when I was first there I also checked inside the shop
turns out you come back later and then check the shop again; her dialogue is just wrong, the magic powder is already done and waiting inside
doesn't seem like this unblocks any of the dungeons anyway
ooooh there's a bunch of stuff I didn't try the hammer on, okay, now I can get somewhere
civic hawk
I gave the witch the mushroom, she said come back later, I did come back later, ...
if I didn't know any better, I'd say the witch scammed you
did the game glitch or what happened there?
visual folio
I dunno if you missed it but I have a few issues like this in literally every Zelda except maybe TP, even BotW and TotK had their moments (though they get away with it by being so flexible that missing stuff rarely blocks you)
I dunno what it is about this franchise specifically that makes it consistently have an order of magnitude more guide-dang-its than anything else I play (be they bugs or design issues or what), but now it's just part of the cost of choosing to play another one
civic hawk
Hmmmm
seems like it's not a glitch in dialogue at all, it's just extremely vague SNES game design
I guess you were supposed to know that you had to go to another screen, come back, and just... walk into the house, because she's gonna say the same thing regardless
Were kids back in the day much smarter at figuring out this shit or did the devs just don't care?
visual folio
I mean, empirically, this issue of mine was never unique to the (S)NES era
if anything LttP is doing surprisingly well in this regard so far; I got all the way to the master sword and my first dark temple before it became necessary to google stuff
visual folio
Were kids back in the day much smarter at figuring out this shit or did the devs...
I think the serious answer is gaming was much newer, harder and smaller back then, so standards for polish were lower, and players were just expected to get stuck and ask friends or buy strategy guides to get through a "big" game like this
(whereas these days we expect people to rarely finish games because they have a thousand similar games competing for their free time, not because getting hopelessly stuck is the norm)
civic hawk
Yeah game design back then was shifting around a lot and games were barely going from the arcade era of gaming into a more home system type of deal
So a lot of games would usually have game designs that were still pretty reminiscent of arcade gaming
visual folio
in this regard, LttP's save system is probably the most fascinating
like, obviously it's not good by modern standards, and I would never play this without save states (even with them I've lost progress multiple times)
but it's super interesting
the big thing of course being choosing from multiple start points every time you load your save
but also, it has a checkpoint at the start of each dungeon, yet that checkpoint only applies to deaths in the current session; if you save and quit that gets lost and you'll have to trek back to the dungeon from one of the start points again
civic hawk
Huh
Yeah I guess it's just part of the limitations of the time
Well, I don't guess, it is
You'll probably have a better time on that regard with Link Between Worlds since it's 'only' like 10 years old, so it's pretty modern
visual folio
I also know I don't fully understand it because there were a few times when loading my save put me on top of the dark world ziggurat, but it seems like now it doesn't do that any more? maybe that's a special case for when you've finished hyrule tower(?) but haven't done the dark temple yet?
still
civic hawk
I'm gonna be honest I remember the first and last time I played LTTP ages ago that kind of stuff was the usual thing that would put me off from fully getting into the game, I always kinda felt sad about that because everyone goes on about how truly incredible lttp and the oracle games are but whenever I tried them (and I do mean just try) all that stuff would really prevent me from fully getting hooked
I was also a child when playing them but still, I was also a child when I played OOT and I loved it
visual folio
it really makes you appreciate the now-omnipresent "this icon appears when autosaving, do not throw me into a hurricane during this time"
yeah there are a lot of games that are frustratingly close to amazing and are ruined almost entirely by lack of a decent save system
for me, that includes the original Metroid (I tried the password stuff and it just doesn't work), my brief attempt at playing Super Mario World as a very young kid, and in modern times anything by Fromsoft
of course I didn't get into gaming properly until the PS2 era, so I'm sure everyone in this thread who grew up on a (S)NES thinks I'm being a total wimp
civic hawk
The password saves were a very weird era, it was that era where they really wanted to find ways to save your progress but save slots and conventional ways of saving games just wasn't a thing yet
Dark Souls and Fromsoft games in general are a bizarre example considering how it saves your game which is, at least from what I remember in Dark Souls, everytime you close the game
and when I say it saves the game I mean it saves the game, when you load back up everything will be exactly as it was left
Luckily I tried the 'original' Metroid in the remake version and I had a great time, can't imagine playing the original two metroids now
sorry metroid fans
visual folio
I did play the original Metroid II on an emulator before the remake existed, had fun with that because emulator
I think my attempt at original original Metroid was one of those bonus features in a later game, maybe Prime 1? so it didn't have save states or anything
civic hawk
I only played the two remakes, the Metroid 2 remake was pretty recent I remember sharing that here when I played through it
I went through a lot of Super Metroid but I think I wasn't super hooked on it and it went on for so long I eventually just lost interest 
I still wanna try out Fusion though! But I do feel a bit guilty playing Fusion without having proper finished Super...
visual folio
I enjoyed Super Metroid, but it's hard to dispute that Fusion, Zero Mission and of course Dread are just better now
even if they're all ultimately footnotes to Super, the way all Zeldas are footnotes to LttP
civic hawk
I feel like if I say that to a group of Metroid fans they would tear out my limbs
visual folio
I'm already wondering how MA will react 
civic hawk
It's like saying ''Yeah link to the past is amazing but Link's Awakening (2019) and Link Between Worlds are just better''
they'd actually kill you
not because it may not be true it's just that Super Metroid is the Link to the Past of Metroid games, the one game that everyone just seems to universally agree is on the top and will stay in the top
unique dagger
original Metroid is so like
civic hawk
and no other game can ever reach that
unique dagger
cryptic
like most NES games are
even Zelda I and II which i adore are extremely cryptic sometiems
visual folio
I prefer to phrase it as Super/LttP were the biggest leaps forward for their franchises and gaming as a whole when they came out, so for people who were around back when they were revolutionary, it's really hard to argue with the fact that Dread or LBW is "merely excellent" but not at all revolutionary
of course we could just as easily say this about movies like Citizen Kane, but our generations aren't known for romanticizing old movies nearly as much as old games
unique dagger
is Citizen Kane the one with the cockatiel scream
visual folio
lol yes
civic hawk
Of course, though it's not just about the huge impact they had on gaming, a lot of people really do hold those games as the peak of their respective franchises and it's kinda hard for me to really weigh how many say it because of their legacy and how much those games mean and how many because they really do think that the games are just the absolute best to this day
visual folio
oh I'm sure many of them think it, but it's impossible to be completely objective about this sort of thing
civic hawk
I sure wish Dread and LBW were revolutionary though but people don't seem to take 2D games too seriously nowadays
visual folio
I'm still weirded out that I didn't realize LBW existed until y'all told me about it in this thread
civic hawk
It's insane, I'm sure if I didn't mention the fact that Link's Awakening had a remake for the Switch you wouldn't know either
Two main line 2D games for Zelda one of the biggest Nintendo franchises and there's some people that don't even know these games exist why?!
visual folio
in retrospect it is quite bizarre that I heard of Tunic, played it to completion, watched multiple speedruns of it, and never once became aware of the existence of the LA remake throughout any of that
unique dagger
LA remake so good
civic hawk
It's legitimately upsetting you already know my opinion on the format of classic survival horror for example so it upsets me when these games get so unfairly underappreciated
visual folio
perhaps it's because I got into gaming "late" but I'm generally quite happy with modern indie revivals of these old school design tropes
I'd much sooner recommend someone Signalis over the original SH1 or RE1 (as opposed to the RE1 remake remaster, that's still top-tier), or Tunic over the original NES Zelda
(I feel like I should have a third example there)
civic hawk
I agree with OG Re1, I disagree entirely with OG SH1
visual folio
heh
civic hawk
It's so underrated
visual folio
I forget if I ever said this out loud when we were doing the Silent Hill fights
but evil demon-worshipping cultists are like the most boring plot premise of all time for me
so I'm fully aware I was not the target audience for SH1 and 3 in that regard
visual folio
especially in SH1 where you won't even notice there is a coherent plot if you don't find and read every scrap of information
(I'm still not sure if I did when I played it myself, it's kind of a blur)
civic hawk
I don't want to go into a full rant but SH1 and 3 are way more than 'boring cult plot'
visual folio
I am aware of that now of course
3 especially, to be clear I always liked that more than 1 (again, it's much easier to notice right away that there's more going on than that)
even if overall 2 still hit much harder for me
civic hawk
the psychological elements didn't start with SH2 and I'm honestly pretty tired of how much attention and credit SH2 gets in and outside the fandom and SH1 and 3 are a little less appreciated
supple quarry
SH2 deserves the reputation that it has
visual folio
I get the frustration, but I also get how it ended up that way, considering I played all three and 2 made far more of an impact on me than the others
a lot of what I know and appreciate about 1 and 3 now came from Youtube videos watched long after I played them myself
fwiw, the part I personally share is frustration that only SH2 is being remade
1 especially could benefit sooooo much from some more modern design that'd make it a lot easier for all audiences, myself included, to get the experience that we were all supposed to have with it yet went almost completely over my head when I tried it
civic hawk
SH1 had the whole situation of child abuse with Alessa which got brought up in SH3 again with Claudia who also got her entire childhood and abuse explored a bit more, it also had the whole drug addiction and abuse that Kaufmann put on Lisa, the entirety of the themes in SH3 with Heather, even the issues Harry had with Heather as a child
Of course SH1 may seem a bit lackluster on the story and all now but SH1 is one of the first games that really showed games can focus on narrative like that especially horror games so while I never deny how much of a masterpiece and how incredible SH2 is it always frustrates me that SH1 and 3 get ignored so much in favor of SH2
visual folio
anyway time to play some more Link to the Past
gotta finish that before we can all start talking about how LBW is so much better no one needs to play LttP any more
civic hawk
It's gonna be very funny to me if I end up actually playing through all of metroid fusion and like it more than I liked Super Metroid
visual folio
full disclosure: Fusion is one of the few games that I played so many times over that for once I probably actually have the "this was literally my childhood" bias
supple quarry
My biggest problem with Fusion is my biggest problem with Dread: the music
Why is it so weak?
civic hawk
That is true
One of the biggest 'complaints' about Dread is that it definitely doesn't have as much variety in scenarios and music as Super Metroid
Which, funnily, and to get back in topic, is one of my complaints about BOTW/TOTK, since I find the music in these games to be much weaker than that of literally any other Zelda, and BOTW was much worse with the scenery since everything was all just Sheikah themed which is cool the first time, not so much the 125th time
supple quarry
Yeah I did not care for botw music. TotK really stepped it up imo
civic hawk
TOTK at least has iconic tunes for stuff like gliding around the air and going into chasms but other than small stuff like that I still don't feel the music in this game at all
Feels very lackluster to me
supple quarry
Fair
I like the combat tracks
And I loooooove the horn BWAAAHHH when you go underground
unique dagger
BWAAAAHHH
visual folio
I'm at the point where low heart noise makes me just kill Link if we're close enough to the start of the dungeon
civic hawk
I honestly don't like the combat tracks in either of these two games at all
I do appreciate the creativity behind the dynamic music system they implemented which I'm glad is something games are starting to do where the music seamlessly changes and morphs as battle goes on and in these two games they change depending on the complexity and difficulty of the battle
It's some pretty genius stuff, but unfortunately I don't vibe with the tunes at all
visual folio
wow, it took me 10+ minutes to figure out how to get Link to move this switch 
they gave me the map and compass for this dungeon suspiciously early
civic hawk
Ahhh the good old days when you needed to find the dungeon map
I didn't know lttp had a compass though
visual folio
I'm surprised it does, since it only marks the boss location and nothing else
bright girder
I think you have to find the dungeon map in all of them except totk and SS
unique dagger
in LA the compass beeps if there's a key in the room youre in
visual folio
I'm used to Zelda compasses marking all chests on the map
bright girder
The compass shows every chest location in all the 3d games (source ive been playing a lot of randomizers and the compass is the best item)
unique dagger
what
visual folio
the boss location is usually pretty obvious once you have the map anyway
bright girder
just totk then
civic hawk
and botw
bright girder
you have to go get the dungeon map in botw
civic hawk
Oh yeah you do
bright girder
its a big deal the champions spend 2 minutes explaining it
civic hawk
in the terminals
my memories of botw are being overwritten by totk
I don't know if that's a good thing
unique dagger
yeah all the compass does in Zelda I and LttP is show the location of the boss
visual folio
https://www.zeldadungeon.net/wiki/Compass ah, the beeping compass is an LA and Oracle thing
unique dagger
actually no the compass in Zelda I shows the location of the Triforce
yes that's what i said
visual folio
I mean that's the complete list of all Zeldas with a beeping compass, now that I've checked
unique dagger
oh
visual folio
it's not just LA but it almost is
bright girder
no they should put them on NSO already
visual folio
ok no wonder this switch took 10 minutes to figure out, even now that I know how to push it it just randomly didn't work at first
civic hawk
wow i did not remember that being a thing in so many zeldas including TP, sheesh, I may need to refresh my memory on these games...
I wonder if it's usually an optional item since I may have skipped getting the compass at all considering I played OOT and TP mostly with the help of guides at the time
visual folio
yeah I remember TP's dungeon maps having extra items like monkeys and cannonballs marked, I just didn't remember that the compass added them
bright girder
a couple of days ago I finished the TP randomizer so I've done all the 3D games now. Wonder if theres a good one for Minish Cap or somehting
unique dagger
....monkeys ?
bright girder
Ye in the forest temple the maps show them as red dots
unique dagger
why are there monkeys
visual folio
have you not played TP?
bright girder
unique dagger
holy shit it's kramer
visual folio
the gist of TP's forest temple is that the bad guys captured a bunch of monkeys and the boss is monkey chief corrupted by the plot device, so you rescue the monkeys one by one and the more you free the longer gaps you can cross with their help
bright girder
and your boomerang talks to you
visual folio
they're okay I guess
bright girder
No nothing in TP is cute
bright girder
well its a gamecube game
unique dagger
so ?
visual folio
a good question that we choose not to ponder
unique dagger
THEIR WHOLE TITTIES OUT
visual folio
:linkflop:
civic hawk
Pretty sure they're not breasts it's just the coloring of the feathers
Also, fun fact, the Oocca are technically the Zonai of Twilight Princess, considering they're an advanced ancient civilization who built the cities in the skies well before the Hylians settled in Hyrule
unique dagger
the designers knew what they were doing
civic hawk
:linkflop:
civic hawk
it is a pretty well known and important rule of script writing to have the plot critical kitten in your story