#D&D and other TTRPGs
final wedge
steep narwhal
Good
bold sinew
entirely understandable for an art company like Paizo
novel eagle
novel eagle
steep narwhal
well it isn't a free PDF if you have to preorder to get it, is it?
oh it uses essence20
novel eagle
lone widget
March 28
Tuesday
work day
agile musk
novel eagle
novel eagle
https://youtu.be/tF7j8lyqiNM
<@&313086760634810390>
glass crescent
Lets just say I was very, very bamboozled when I was pinged here 
That DND MC thing actually looks fairly well made though
novel eagle
lone widget
Only on Bedrock though
novel eagle
Mincraft Monstrous Compendium
prime nimbus
Bamboozled?
novel eagle
Man, I really want to see that movie
final wedge
Its out this weekend
lone widget
Saaaaaaame
glass crescent
<a:rarityspeechless:585545014927556636>
I completely forgot I had this role
novel eagle
Yeah, but my husband doesn't really have any interest in going to see it.
That speak to dead moment is just pure D&D. 
WAIT, JOCAT
GOBBO PLUSHIE
lone widget
Cat boy
glass crescent
novel eagle
"Do I know you?" 
lone widget
I love this song already
novel eagle
JoCat is always entertaining
toys
Uni!
Those "dicelings" are adorable
That displacer beast is amazing
Owlbear is GameStop exclusive
MtG Secret Lair with D&D movie characters
novel eagle
No clue
lone widget
Damn
novel eagle
new Drizzt book this August
slender vector
https://youtu.be/tF7j8lyqiNM
<@&313086760634810390>
O
novel eagle
"Can you spell it?"
"Not a chance!"
lone widget
novel eagle
some asshole is just spamming the YT chat with "WHERE IS MOTHER 3" 
lone widget
Pfffft
novel eagle
Unreal 5
lone widget
Game(?) looks cool though
novel eagle
Okay, the spell effects are neat
Okay, that ankheg popping out of the ground was great
Okay, I'm saying okay too much 
lone widget
Okay Masque, you can stop saying okay now. Okay? 
novel eagle
"I have 8 hit points, I don't do physical activity!" 
Slowly rolling out the VTT over the year
lone widget
No release date, but "this year". 
novel eagle
Life sized mimic
lone widget
Awwwwww
novel eagle
Baby owlbear also
lone widget
Baby owlbear 
novel eagle
It looks so grumpy. ❤️
Oooh, D&D documentary
Talking about all the multiversal clues they've left in various products
Bigby Presents: Glory of the Giants
Phandelver and Below: the Shattered Obelisk (!!!)
PLANESCAPE
(YT chat just went nuts)
Deck of Many Things apparently getting some product around its lore
Vecna adventure in 2024
Red Wizards get a story product in 2025
Venger (from the 80s cartoon) will return in a D&D adventure!
League of Malevolence (from Wild Beyond the Witchlight) in a future adventure
Post show on Twitch with giveaways, apparently
lone widget
God, I've heard that piano tune at the end of those guys' speech before, but I can't remember where.
wooden patio
Down here, salt is a way of life
novel eagle
Post show on Twitch with giveaways, apparently
I return with noodles
Okay, so D&D Beyond has pregens for folks now
Confirming that Tony DeTerlizzi (the original Planescape artist) did some of the art for the book.
Lots of love for the JoCat video in Twitch chat
"I ordered the displacer beast, but there's a 50% chance I might not get it!"
Book of Many Things is going to be a sourcebook similar to XGtE or TCoE
The Phandelver adventure can be run on its own, or you can run the Starter Set adventure and then roll right into it.
Hints that there will be a Deck of Many Things available to buy (big shock there)
They have expanded the Deck to include more than the original 22 cards ("More chaos!")
Suggesting customizing the Deck for your world
Chris Perkins: "Oh there's top secret stuff on a whiteboard on (the other) wall, I can't show you that."
Mincraft monsters
Blaze
Creeper
Endermen
Ender Dragon
Wolves of the Overworld
Chris Perkins going on about how nuts it is adding Creepers to D&D
rapid nacelle
Like creepers are the most bullshit creatures D&D has ever come out with
(A tarasque is basically "tell me you hate your party without telling me you hate your party", fight me over it)
prime nimbus
Tarrasques are fun and balanced.
rapid nacelle
... I can't tell if that's sarcasm o.o
novel eagle
Tarrasques are kaiju
rapid nacelle
I admit I've never actually played D&D (I know the rudiments of the system but I'm more familiar with other games), but Tarrasques feel like something a DM throws at a party if he just wants them all to die
lone widget
Lots of love for the JoCat video in Twitch chat
Kinda pleasantly surprised by that, tbh. After seeing JoCat and how he(?) (or they?) presents online, I expected a lot of vitriol and toxicity.
novel eagle
Tarrasques are more of a force of nature than a fight. You have to find a way to deal with them, but can't really fight them (unless your DM makes you god-tier characters).
novel eagle
Kinda pleasantly surprised by that, tbh. After seeing JoCat and how he(?) (or th...
YT chat was awful about it. But Twitch chat was really positive when it came up.
lime tusk
stuff like the Tarrasque are basically meant to be "this is what your party works up to over the course of a long campaign, and it's meant to be a worthy final fight." (We had one campaign where one of the enemies used Tarrasque as his mount. And that wasn't even the biggest fight of that session.)
lone widget
What's so bad about tarrasques? I've heard them come up before but I've never faced one as a player.
They look like just some big ol' lizard.
lone widget
Ooooooh...that's a lot bigger than I thought
novel eagle
lone widget
The picture I saw made them look a lot smaller
"If it fails a saving throw, it can choose to literally f*ck the game rules and say that it succeeded anyway."
That's BS.
novel eagle
Mhm. They're meant to be something you don't directly fight, you find a way to get rid of it / put it back to sleep
lone widget
Also, "if you cast magic at this thing, you're always gonna fail, but it depends on how badly you fail". 
I see now why D&D players hate these things
novel eagle
Yeah, it's made to be the equivalent of shooting Godzilla with a revolver. You need another way of dealing with it.
bold sinew
tbf, Legendary Resistances are fairly common in high level 5e play
mostly so it doesn't get insta-gibbed by the wizard
novel eagle
Mhm. This just has... a lot of resistance.
bold sinew
3 is normal
Strahd has the same amount of LR
IIRC above level 10 almost everything with LR has 3
novel eagle
I count the reflection as more resistance (just at random instead of on demand)
bold sinew
it's a lot more terrifying than it looks
mostly means the wizard has to not stat out entirely into ranged spells or missile or line spells
fireball is good
it's still half damage on a success
tbh the 5e tarrasque isn't very terrifying, it's doable for a level 15 party with prep time
it used to be much more terrifying in 3.5e
the PF2e Tarrasque is still close and even a Level 20 party would struggle with it
rapid nacelle
"If it fails a saving throw, it can choose to literally f*ck the game rules and ...
Yep, thank fuck it can apparently only do that three times a day
lone widget
tbf, Legendary Resistances are fairly common in high level 5e play
Being common doesn't make it any less bullshit.
bold sinew
it's common because high level 5e play is not fun to balance for
it's the DM's "get out of jail free" card, but three times
the pf2e variant above doesn't need it
it's +5 over a max level party so it becomes a lethal TPK threat just by that alone
unreal oracle
Yeah, I am surprised by the legendary resistant talk, it is very common.
prime nimbus
... I can't tell if that's sarcasm o.o
By level 20, the players have ways to trivialize any challenge in the official sourcebooks, including Tarrasques. In modern editions Tarrasques have been rebalanced to be an interesting fight rather than "Guys please stop killing my dudes or else"
final wedge
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/tarrasque-attack.jpg
Ah the godzilla kaiju of dnd
long dawn
5e's tarrasque is disappointing, honestly. The fact that it could be killed by a 1st level character completely rules as written if you don't homebrew it a way to deal with flying enemies is a little sad.
1st level aarakocra forge cleric with a longbow makes the tarrasque very sad.
prime nimbus
It's okay. The Tarrasque can outpace the Aarakocra, so it just runs away.
Aarakocra flying speed is 50, doubled with a dash to 100. Tarrasque can move 40, 80 with a dash, and 20 more for each legendary action it's allowed to take, minimum of 100, ensuring that eventually, the Aarakocra can no longer attack.
long dawn
So much better that the legendary big bad of d&d can escape from the lvl 1 birdo. 
Still, at least it isn't forced to just sit there and die.
novel eagle
Sure, I'll propose the next Monster Manual, the tarrasque gets a ranged acid attack.
prime nimbus
In third edition they just make it so you have to deal a lot of damage or else you will never kill it.
No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability.
The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead.
If the tarrasque loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 1d6 minutes (the detached piece dies and decays normally). The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump. ```Additionally it reduces any damage it takes by 15, just to make sure you can't bring it down using an army of low level people
steep narwhal
Sure, I'll propose the next Monster Manual, the tarrasque gets a ranged acid att...
Let me grab my "Tarrasque, but actually a threat" stat block. 1 moment
@novel eagle
long dawn
I like that. There's a nation of steam-punk gnomes in my setting that are gradually getting more and more desperate in their war with an industrial revolution era kobold nation in my setting and turning to more and more unethical means to try to win. I might make this their doomsday weapon. Thank you!
bold sinew
I think my "actual threat" statblock would be buffing out my Time Worm, which's most notable three functions are A) being able to reshuffle initiative (d6=6 recharge), B) the ability to attack players in any position they've been in any past, C) the ability to make attacks on squares that will affect the first creature in the future entering that square.
And D) if it dies it stows it's death into a future moment so it can recover out of combat. With it's death stowed, it will now be at a random amount of HP every turn and keep fighting until killed again.
steep narwhal
I like that. There's a nation of steam-punk gnomes in my setting that are gradua...
The whole supplement has a bunch more of these. https://deadfish.games/anthology
prime nimbus
Battle maps available soon
rapid nacelle
I should find some good map-making software... I never got on well with Campaign Cartographer or Dungeon Painter Studio, they never felt particularly user friendly
steep narwhal
I was using, uhhhhhhhh dungeondraft I think? But I kind of got super busy and then never got around to finishing the maps. I probably should
novel eagle
agile musk
rapid nacelle
I was using, uhhhhhhhh dungeondraft I think? But I kind of got super busy and th...
Heard of that, do you have a link?
prime nimbus
rapid nacelle
Thenk n_n
long dawn
Eh... I don't really like that. That is too video gamey. It takes away from the imagination and tabletop feel too much, I think.
unreal oracle
Is the dice roller worse or better than Foundry, that is the real question.
keen sedge
thats too much effort ngl
it means you're basically forced to use their stuff when D&D has a huge amount of homebrew implied
we use tokens rather than hyper complex 3d animated miniatures because theres not a lot of hyper complex 3d animated miniatures, the barrier to entry is basically a brick wall
bold sinew
fully agreed
most 3D VTTs are very cool looking
and tbh the WOTC one is probably the most advanced in terms of system support
but ultimately it means going from paying 40-60$ for a Token art to paying 500$ for the sculpted mini model
unreal oracle
It's probably part of their plan to sell 30$ a month subs.
prime nimbus
I wouldn't be so sure. In their attempts to secure the position of this new product, Wizards of the Coast have been carefully making blunder after blunder after blunder.
naive bone
noticed the discussion about high CR monsters in D&D 5e
Tbh, even the ones mentioned aren't nearly as dangerous as Orcus with his wand
Nothing quite like the big guy just simply summoning in 3 liches and a few more undead and basically quadrupling the amount of 9th-level spellcasting you have to deal with
prime nimbus
Yeah, the true threat is action economy
naive bone
It was pretty telling when my DM at the ||end of the Out of the Abyss campaign he ran once it ended|| told me that he could have just easily TPKed our party if he wanted to using Orcus but chose not to.
You know, wanting a extremely intense and dangerous, but possible fight
prime nimbus
Any DM can kill their players. A good DM will make it fun
naive bone
in this case, given my party's capabilities, just the pure, unaltered statblock with the smartest course of action (which I listed above) would have easily wiped the floor with us, no 'cheating' required
prime nimbus
Yes. No cheating is necessary because the DM has control of the world and its content
novel eagle
The madmen are actually doing it:
https://twitter.com/PlayRenegade/status/1643263432362270720
long dawn
One of my players just started complaining about politics in the game's group chat. This is gonna go poorly, I just know it.
prime nimbus
Are you going to stop them?
long dawn
I told them that I would very much prefer it if we did not discuss politics. It tends to destroy games.
If they persist, I'll have to put my foot down. I don't want that anywhere close to my games. It never ends well.
lime tusk
it's particularly important that even if you agree with their takes, "this isn't the place" is something you actually enforce
prime nimbus
Yes!
long dawn
The first thing they said in response was "I'm sorry if this has offended anyone." Which is also not the point. I reinforced that I wanted to keep a separation between real life politics and a fantasy relaxation game.
Ugh. This sucks.
prime nimbus
Yeah. I definitely recommend ruthlessly eliminating the topic of discussion from the game, by explaining how this is not the place
long dawn
I'm at work, too, so they had been discussing it for at least an hour before I managed to get a chance to look at my phone.
Not my favorite way of spending my lunch break.
lime tusk
right. It's not like "I'm offended by this", it's like, I come to this game to be in the game. If you want to talk about contentious issues, there are better places to do that.
long dawn
They do not know my political beliefs and I intend to keep it that way. I hang out with them to play a fantasy game, not argue about politics.
lime tusk
I also don't know your political beliefs, and you don't know mine, and that's how I'd like to keep it with most people on Manechat
long dawn
Mhm. There is a time and place for that and chats about games or shared interests are not that place.
bold sinew
Subject to the terms and conditions of this ORC License, for the Term Licensor hereby grants You a worldwide, royalty-free, non-sublicensable, non-exclusive, irrevocable license to exercise the Licensed Rights in the ORC Content to Use the ORC Content, in whole or in part. Licensor hereby authorizes You to exercise the Licensed Rights in all media and formats whether now known or hereafter created, and to make technical modifications necessary to do so. Licensor hereby waives and/or agrees not to assert any right or authority to forbid You from making technical modifications necessary to exercise the Licensed Rights, including technical modifications necessary to circumvent Effective Technological Measures.
novel eagle
Yeah, it seems the ORC is basically just the OGL with some more specific terminology. More than one Reddit sub seems overwhelmingly disappointed in this.
bold sinew
it definitely has a few more provisions
it's not just a patch on top of the OGL, notably because it waives and grants certain rights, such as database rights
(which is what Archives of Nethys runs on)
also notable is that the ORC is infectious
ie, when you build your own stuff on top of ORC, you have to also license your new stuff in ORC if applicable
ie, if 5e was orc then project blackflag from kobold press would have to be orc
novel eagle
ie, when you build your own stuff on top of ORC, you have to also license your n...
That was in the OGL as well. If you made something using another person's OGL content, you had to at least include the OGL in your product to cover that material. You didn't necessarily have to license your new content under the OGL, but the stuff you used had to still be OGL.
bold sinew
no it's more invasive
the license (to my reading) basically says that not only do you have to include a copy of the ORC
it says that your stuff is also under the ORC
novel eagle
How does it measure that? Is there some stipulation you have to add X amount of content under the ORC license?
bold sinew
it seems closer to a version of the GNU GPL for game systems than just a CC-BY
novel eagle
It can't just blanket force you to open the entire contents of what you're publishing, because that's going to make the license DoA.
bold sinew
it doesn't force you to make it all open
only the system parts, essentially
minus all fluff
novel eagle
That's going to be a nightmare to adjudicate.
bold sinew
the Section 2 Paragraph b basically tells how it works
novel eagle
Being able to desginate which parts of your new content you were releasing under the OGL was a great benefit, as it let you specify the items you were making open. If ORC says "all rules are open," then people are going to balk.
bold sinew
Section 1 Paragaphs b and c say what parts fall under the ORC
it's everything you designate explicitly as ORC and systems stuff
this is a pretty exhaustive list of things that would be ORC content
novel eagle
If it's "parts you designate" then that's no different from OGL.
bold sinew
it's both
there is a minimum set included + everything you explicitly point out
and it calls Adapted ORC Content everything derivative of ORC content that would otherwise be ORC Content under the above
and then alter in Section II it says that you must give your own content the ORC license to the extend that it counts as Adapted ORC Content
novel eagle
That's not both, that's "you HAVE to make X open, but you can open more if you want."
bold sinew
it's the superset of both, yes
it doesn't stop you from designating content that would be ORC anyway to be explicitly ORC
novel eagle
I think that's going to kill a bunch of interest in ORC, then. If I made a custom monster for my setting, and don't want to open it's stat block, then ORC is utterly useless to me.
bold sinew
only the statblock would be covered by the ORC to my understanding
the images and art you make for it, backstory, things like how this monsters behaves, lives, etc, would all still be proprietary
and the rest of your setting would similarly be under your own copyright ownership
and from Paizo's standpoint this is entirely understandable because they already operate on this
the entire PF2e system is freely available online in form of statblocks and rules
every single monsters they have ever released is on AoN
because ultimately people buy the bestiaries for the art and fluff, the subtext that tells you where that monster lives or gives you tips on how to deploy it
the new treasure book which includes a bunch of extra advice for players and GMs as well as art for the item
even for the VTT, I can have all the monsters, but if I want the official art, I pay for that
the adventure paths are only available on AoN to the extend that you can access for example special feats necessary for the adventure
or special rules around it and NPC statblocks
the actual adventure and it's story is still pay-to-play
novel eagle
only the statblock would be covered by the ORC to my understanding
Right, but the problem is that I may not want to release that statblock (kinda like how Wizards didn't put Mind Flayers into the SRD because they wanted to keep their statblocks proprietary).
bold sinew
Realistically speaking, most systems that clamp down on statblocks tend to have websites that publish them anyways
agile musk
lone widget
Lol, this had me wheezing for real
lone widget
Today on Flitter's Curse of Strahd game, quite possibly one of my proudest lines of written dialogue ever:
"You're teetering over the edge of an abyss you cannot escape from, and the hands of those you lie to are grasping at your robes to pull you in."
prime nimbus
It was very good
Makes me want to set up a game with actual political systems interacting, rather than this Strahd focused one
agile musk
coarse pasture
Wow, Flitter, your profile picture is adorable 
prime nimbus
Thanks
novel eagle
unreal oracle
The campaign guide to Star Trek is watching all 900 hours of it.
novel eagle
final wedge
Dragon
steep narwhal
If anyone was waiting on the Arby's dice promo, don't bother. Bots and scalpers got the entire stock in less than 10 seconds.
lone widget
RIP
final wedge
Arbys had dice?
novel eagle
Wow, that's shitty. Will probably be up on eBay this afternoon for exorbitant amounts.
Every one of the accounts selling these dice deserves to be shut down.
final wedge
Dice
novel eagle
Gelatenous Cube plushie by the guy who makes the Dork Tower comic & Munchkin card games
steep narwhal
They could. But they're incompetent, so they won't.
lone widget
Easier said than done.
rapid nacelle
... Does anyone here have experience shooting a brand new-to-you firearm? I need to ask a question for Science Reasons
novel eagle
Yes, but I'm not sure this is the right thread.
Unless this factors into RPG design?
rapid nacelle
It does!
Is it fair to assume that, if you acquire a firearm (whether a pistol, revolver or long-arm) brand new to you (for example, looted off an enemy, found while scrounging, or purchased off a merchant, as the setting allows), the sights are not gonna be set properly for you?
Whether those sights be basic iron sights, a red-dot, or a magnifying scope
And incorrectly set sights will cause a penalty to accuracy when trying to use them
novel eagle
It varies. Like, most pistols nowadays don't even have adjustable sights. Or are minimally adjustable.
rapid nacelle
... Ahh, so those "front peg, rear notch" sights can't/don't need to be adjusted?
Can you tell I'm British and Do Not Guns?
novel eagle
Generally not. The front sight is almost always just a hard piece of metal. The rear sights can be adjusted in some, but not a lot.
Rifles, on the other hand, tend to have much more adjustments available to the sights. Again, it should be set and forget, but personal preference can influence it.
Laser sights theoretically should just work, as long as they're calibrated properly. They don't need adjusted. The issue with both laser sights & optical scopes is that combat tends to be violent, which means they can get knocked out of alignment.
That said... most games, this doesn't matter. It's not worth the fiddliness to worry about that unless it's important to the story.
rapid nacelle
Rifles, on the other hand, tend to have much more adjustments available to the s...
Oh, yeah I'm considering implementing a house rule that says "whenever you acquire a new gun, you'll take a penalty to accuracy whenever you try and use the sights, unless you expend X number of rounds to zero the sight for your character". Once they've "set" the sight, they can then "forget" it, since their body shape and thus sight picture won't change. But that gun will then be inaccurate for anyone else
The question is working out a reasonably quick, easy system to determine X rounds
prime nimbus
30 seconds.
novel eagle
Well, the issue there is that the player will just shrug and say "I won't bother setting the sight then, I'll just shoot." So you're either going to have them take a penalty for not fixing the sight, or a penalty for not using the sight.
It's quicker to just say either 1) the sights are misaligned, so there's a penalty for using the gun, period; or 2) gloss over it and, as long as they know how to use that type of gun, they get to fire it as normal.
rapid nacelle
The idea was to account for the fact that a gun you just find in a post-apocalyptic wasteland or take off a random robber won't be set up for you specifically, and you then have to decide "do I zero it now and waste ammo, AND risk giving away my position, or do I just accept that I'm gonna be a crap shot until I can get back to my home base and don't have to worry about the sound of gunfire attracting attention/wasting the limited ammo I have with me?"
rapid nacelle
Well, the issue there is that the player will just shrug and say "I won't bother...
#2 is how the Rifts system does it by default: If you have proficiency in that kind of firearm, you get bonuses to hit (as well as the knowledge to actually use, reload and maintain the weapon)
There's various ways you can shoot, including spraying (purposefully pointing the gun in a certain direction and dumping sprays of bullets) and shooting wild (just flailing the gun around and discharging it with zero thought, often done when in a blind panic for example), but the two I think are most relevant to this discussion are the basic shot (just point the gun and squeeze off a quick shot), which only takes a single action, and the Aimed Shot, which takes two actions (to represent the extra time taken to line up the shot), but enjoys a +2 bonus to hit
I'd guess the best way would be to say "you can't do an Aimed Shot with a badly zeroed sight"? Or maybe only give it a +1 bonus instead of +2
novel eagle
Yeah. In that situation, I'd just say that if they pick up a damaged weapon, they forgo their bonus to-hit, and cannot take the Aimed Shot action, until they take the time to fix/calibrate it. Just make that clear to the players before the game starts, random guns they get as loot or find may be inaccurate until they have time to work on them.
Doesn't need a specific penalty, just lose their normal bonuses.
lime tusk
some percentage of guns will be "close enough" and some will be not even remotely close
rapid nacelle
And I assume calibrating would expend a certain number of rounds of ammunition?
novel eagle
My dad has told me the story a few times, when he was in basic training for the Marine Corps. He was qualifying on the rifle range, but the gun they gave him was so badly misaligned he could not accurately hit the target. When the drill sergeant called him out for missing so badly, dad told the guy the gun was faulty.
The sergeant was about ready to rip him a new one, but decided to fire the gun himself. Several missed shots later, he angrily called out to the guy in charge of the weapons, declared the gun defective & got my dad a new one. Dad then qualified handily with the new rifle.
So, tl;dr if the gun is just slightly off, deny them the normal bonus. If it's completely fucked, they aren't going to hit shit anyway, and just let them know that.
rapid nacelle
I've tied basic maintenance to simple proficiency in that weapon, but more advanced stuff (re-chambering for example) to skills like the Weaponsmith skill (I forget which one exactly, but for the sake of this discussion let's call it the hypothetical "Weaponsmith" skill). Proficiency can't be rolled against, you just get bonuses, weaponsmithing can
rapid nacelle
So, tl;dr if the gun is just slightly off, deny them the normal bonus. If it's *...
Yeah, and some levels of "fucked" should be obvious to anyone with eyes, but some will only become apparent after they actually try and use it and miss horribly
novel eagle
Mhm. But the main thing to keep in mind is what's fun for the players. If they want a game where they're under fire, grab a gun lying on the ground and waste an entire turn unable to hit anything, great!
But some players are just going to be mad or disappointed. So it would be better for them if you say "Sorry, it's very clear that gun you just picked up won't hit the broadside of a barn." Then they can choose what else to do with their action(s).
rapid nacelle
Yeah, makes sense. I like coming up with house rules to cover a ton of situations, then picking and choosing which ones I think my players are actually going to want to use
novel eagle
Sure! This is the kind of thing you bring up in Session 0, where everyone talks about what they want out of the game. It might be a fun rule for some, or just a source of frustration for others. Best to bring it up early and see what they think.
rapid nacelle
Absolut!
... D'you think the number of rounds it should take to calibrate a gun can be reduced to a simple number, or is it another one of those "it really depends"?
novel eagle
Part of it is going to depend on how long the combats tend to take. You don't want the default to be so long, the player might as well never try during combat.
rapid nacelle
Yeah, that's a thing too. But I was more thinking that you would be insane to actually try zeroing a gun while literally under fire, but you might want to try it if you're just out exploring/scavenging, and feel the risk is worth it. I'm only bothering including the "use x rounds of ammo" thing to give the players an extra decision to make if they wish to; If they only have limited numbers of bullets with them, do they risk firing 5-10 of them now, but know their gun can actually hit the broad side of a barn when the shit hits the fan, or do they save every single round they have, and just acknowledge that the gun might not shoot right until they get back to base - where they needn't fear running out of ammo nearly as badly, or attracting unwelcome attention with the sound of gunfire
Obviously in settings where legit gun merchants exist, I'll just let them walk out of the shop with a properly-calibrated weapon because they're assumed to be allowed to do all the calibration work in the shop, including practice firing
(not every setting the Rifts system allows for has gone to Hell in a handcart, at least not as much as a full zombie apocalypse)
lime tusk
you could also allow them to fire a single test shot that doesn't really let them zero it but does let them know if it is zeroed
novel eagle
Honestly, properly calibrating a gun is not something you can do in combat. If you & the players think it'd be fun, sure, go for it! Realistically though, you just aren't going to be able to while the bullets are actively flying.
rapid nacelle
Oh yeah, that would at least tell them whether the gun shoots straight
rapid nacelle
Honestly, properly calibrating a gun is *not* something you can do in combat. If...
Yep, that was my thinking too
It takes time, accurate knowledge of ranges, and repetition to get a sight zeroed in properly, as well as expenditure of rounds which is a bad idea when you've got much more important things to worry about, like not getting shot
So as I say, you might risk it out in the world if you think the sound of gunfire won't make your day upsettingly difficult, but if you're already being attacked it's just Not Happening
novel eagle
Mhm. So my personal thought, is to give them one roll to try and "guess" the calibration needed, with a fairly high target number. If they fail, oh well, they tried and can just fire the gun with no bonuses. If they succeed, great, they beat the odds!
When they've actually got some non-combat downtime, they can work on properly calibrating it.
rapid nacelle
That'd work well! Or I could just inform them in Session 0 that there's a greater-than-zero chance that guns won't shoot straight if they just pick them up off the ground, or out of a ruined house, or a random trash can, or any of the silly places people stash fully-loaded firearms 😛
then like you say, they can roll against their IQ to try and guess if it's zeroed correctly, or fire a test shot, or whatever they want to do
novel eagle
Yup. Just set the expectation that looted guns aren't properly calibrated and they won't get their normal bonuses until they have time to work on them. They can use those guns in a pinch, or they can try a quick calibration, but properly fixing them will need some downtime.
You could maybe do a roll behind the screen whenever they loot a gun to determine if it is just a lucky gun that's still calibrated well.
rapid nacelle
I might be generous and just say that revolvers and handguns are fine out the box
Since as you say, those usually can't be adjusted anyway, if they're just using basic iron sights
But then in different settings there's a chance the gun will actually be broken, not just badly sighted... hmm
I'll have to put some thonk into that
rapid nacelle
Thanks for all this, you lot have given me a lot to consider!
novel eagle
You're welcome! Glad to help.
rapid nacelle
Yup. Just set the expectation that looted guns aren't properly calibrated and th...
Oh, further to this point, to clarify: guns don't intrinsically "give bonuses" the way a finely balanced sword would. The only bonuses you get are your proficiency (the more time you spend practicing with a gun, the better of a shot you become), and any bonuses or penalties you get depending on the kind of shot you fire:
A quick "snap shot", just point the muzzle and pull the trigger; no bonus or penalty, 1 Action
Aimed shot: taking the time to actually aim your shot, 2 actions but +2 to hit, +4 if you have the Sniper skill. Can only fire a single round, multi-round bursts cannot be aimed
Called Shot: Unless the shooter calls out a specific location BEFORE rolling to hit, all shots are considered against centre-mass. a Called Shot can also be aimed, and always takes 1 action more than a non-called shot (aimed or not). If aimed, you benefit from the +2 to hit, but also take a penalty of -3 or -4 because targets like a bulls-eye or the pistol in someone's hand are very hard to hit
Shooting Blind: Basically any situation where you can't see what you're shooting at, but are still fighting with discipline (such as shooting in the dark, around a corner, or into ground cover where you know roughly where the target is, but can't see them). -10 to hit, and no that's not a typo
Shooting bursts: half bonuses; burst fire is intended to increase damage output, not accuracy.
Shooting wild: Applies to even disciplined, trained characters when enraged, terrified, panicked, off-balance, drunk, shooting from a moving vehicle/platform/horseback etc. or indiscriminately spraying an entire area with fire, or similar situations where even the vaguest semblance of accuracy is impossible. -6 to hit
lone widget
Today on "We F*cked Up In Curse Of Strahd"
novel eagle
prime nimbus
This game was a level 5 game. Both characters would have died if the roll was 40
lone widget
I love how we had just finished off a good fight and were all happy, and then suddenly BAM, a single mistake leads to two of us nearly dying permanently.
That would've been embarrassing. "Here lies Lutharin Rallis. Paladin, friend, hero. He froze to death in a wine cellar."
prime nimbus
Here's a refresher on dead mechanics. In 5th edition, you die instantly if you take more than 100% of your health while downed, so in this scenario, getting a character downed by brown mold will require another character to pull them out before the brown mold rolls a 40 or hits them twice while downed. Fortunately both got out without falling unconscious
novel eagle
Yeah, there would've at least been a chance for someone to save the characters before they became corpsesickles.
lone widget
Rom's character has got no health even at full health so he wouldn't have been a good choice to run in and get us out with that kind of damage, and the NPC character we had probably would've died getting to us too because she was already injured before the fight. The only one who could've gotten us out in time should it have come down to that was Cap's dwarf character, but he was far away from us at the time, can only grab one of us at a time, and could only survive two full hits from the cold damage unless he survived a constitution save twice. No matter how it went, if both of us had fallen unconscious from the cold, at least one of us wouldn't have made it out in time.
So yeah, we were very lucky, lol.
novel eagle
novel eagle
final wedge
Interesting
bold sinew
overdue IMO
the alignment system is a bit... dodgy philosophically speaking
also looks like we loose a few things in the reprint due to OGL
novel eagle
I expect they're going to create their own versions of things like magic missile with the serial numbers filed off.
bold sinew
Legally Distinct Arcane Bolt
prime nimbus
I like the alignment system
Especially the original alignment of law versus chaos. It's a framework that helps with the construction of fun stories
prime nimbus
I want them to be in the rules because it makes it easier for me
It's a lot harder to make such a story if the bestiary didn't include an alignment suggestion for every single monster.
Or an easily interpretable guideline for making two dimensional characters
novel eagle
Plus side, the old bestiary should be completely compatible with PF2R, so at least that's there for you.
prime nimbus
Yeah!
novel eagle
It's tossing out the OGL and SRD entirely, in exchange for ORC. That means losing some SRD-specific stuff (like magic missile), but the rules themselves have been pretty divorced from D&D's wording for quite a while anyway.
novel eagle
No, it's just that alignment is a very contentious topic. And in most people's games, it's either ignored or actively causes problems.
novel eagle
OGL-Based Changes
- “Spell level” terminology being changed to “Spell rank”
- Ability scores going away; they’re just going to become Ability Modifiers now.
- +1, +2, +3
- Alignments are now going to be Edicts and Anathema.
- Aligned damage now becomes Holy/Unholy.
- OGL Spells are being renamed/replaced.
- Nephilim replacing Tiefling/Aasimar and other Planar descendants.
Hm. The markdown lists arent working, but you get the gist
bold sinew
markdown was disabled temporarily because of a security issue
will witch finally be viable in open competitive play?
Paizo refuses to answer our demands
unreal oracle
Ability scores aren't needed but will be missed.
Alignment is a relic that never seems to come up anymore.
Are Tiefling/Aasimar OGL? I though Hasbro failed in their attempt to secure Aasimar.
novel eagle
Tieflings were, but I don't remember on Aasimar. I think the 3e version slipped into the SRD at one point, so folks were using it from there in 5e products.
bold sinew
Alignment does come up sometimes if you play Pathfinder 2e
but mostly if you're a cleric or champion, where you have to very closely pay attention to your edicts and anathema anyway
novel eagle
Yeah, apparently they're doing something with those to compensate
bold sinew
from what I recall from the stream summary, it's turned into Holy vs Unholy damage
lone widget
<a:yaebounce_chickenjagoo:1079379261384818738> Ability scores aren't needed but ...
I disagree about the alignment being a relic, but whatever. I'm still gonna play neutral or good characters anyway, alignment system or no.
novel eagle
I mean, that's kinda the point. You could always play characters the way you wanted, alignment just led to arguments about how you weren't playing your character "right."
bold sinew
Edicts/Anathema already cover most of the alignment stuff and "playing your character right" but a bit better
since now your deity actually spells out what you want instead of both the player and the GM taking independent guesses and both hoping the other guess is similar
long dawn
My online d&d group, who just hit 9th level, fought some of these today, Lost Sorrowsworn. One ran up, grabbed their rogue with its arms and stabbed them inside them, then started screaming in panic and fear psychically. Every time it took damage the screaming intensified enough to cause lots of psychic damage. It then pulled them inside a pitch black room and stabbed them to death with the arms. The party was horrified.
The rogue went from full hp to dead in two rounds. They were brought back with Revivify as soon as the fight ended, but now they're very wary of the rest of the dungeon.
novel eagle
Oh yeah, those are terrifying
long dawn
The basic plot is that a town they are trying to protect has been having disappearances lately, people going missing by the dozens. They tracked down the reasoning and discovered someone had been summoning Skulks to murder people. They defeated the Skulks, but did not catch the summoner. Eventually they caught wind that the summoner was escalating and starting to call more and more dangerous things from the Shadowfell, even resorting to try to breach open reality and create a portal directly there. They got a tip as to the location of the ritual and are attacking the place now, an old ruin in the side of a hill. Outside the ruin they ran into Wretched Sorrowsworn in huge numbers, which swarmed their warlock and dropped him to 6 hp before the party managed to get them off him. After resting up and healing, they decided to enter the ruins. In the first room was two of the Lost Sorrowsworn and a few more Wretched ones. They got unlucky and one of the Lost grabbed the rogue, resulting in their death. Rest of the fight was pretty clean, the other one failed to get past the party cleric's AC. Now they're very worried about exploring the rest of the pitch black ruins, which they now know are crawling with Sorrowsworn and in which a warlock is trying to call more and open a portal to the Shadowfell.
long dawn
It very much is. They're actually a really hard party to hurt. Lots of synergy in their builds. Fathomless Warlock, War Cleric, Swashbuckler Rogue, Spore Druid, and Mercy Monk.
This was me raising the stakes, both in terms of combat and story pressure, now that they reached 9th level.
They already made a mistake, too. They decided to take extra time before resting to forage for food, so their druid with the Chef feat could make a meal for some extra healing. That has given the warlock more time to finish his ritual.
lone widget
My online d&d group, who just hit 9th level, fought some of these today, Lost So...
Jeeeeeeesus Christ...
long dawn
Very horror movie inspired monster, which I like. Lets me do a dungeon with an incredibly foreboding vibe.
lone widget
looks at @prime nimbus warily...
prime nimbus
You'll be fine
steep narwhal
I'm not gonna watch a video with that kind of clickbait headline. What's the system?
d20 roll under? That's not really D&D like. It's a good system (if a bit agranular) but like, that's a very poor way to describe it.
bold sinew
Twitter
lone widget
I hope it's another one from Owlcat. They're awesome with Pathfinder games.
And an Owlcat Pathfinder game done in 2e would be EPIC.
steep narwhal
IIRC they're busy working on Warhammer
rapid nacelle
Y'all said my trigger word
prime nimbus
Warhammer?
novel eagle
lone widget
...Why does that cat thing in the middle look like Celestia?
rapid nacelle
... thank you, now I can't un-see it
lone widget
It's as if Celestia and Unikitty had a baby.
That being said, whoever kid created that majestic earthy plant lion thing has a really cool imagination.
It looks like it could've been a D&D monster even before the kid drew it.
rapid nacelle
They were based on children's drawings of critters they imagined
... Hospitalised children?
Welp. Didn't need that kick in the feels today!
novel eagle
bold sinew
Paizo had the answer to the question nobody asked
"What if we add more fire to your red dragons?"
full pine
t
keen sedge
https://youtu.be/xCjMT6JHHzI why am I only just now hearing about the cyberpunk pony ttrpg based in the sunjacker universe?
novel eagle
https://youtu.be/xCjMT6JHHzI why am I only just now hearing about the cyberpunk ...
It's still in beta, that's why I haven't brought it up. But yeah, it's in the works!
CaptainHoers has a channel for it on their Discord
keen sedge
(i also need to read sunjackers still)
novel eagle
(i also need to read sunjackers still)
It's an excellent comic, but it can be a bit depressing/disturbing at spots (since it's a cyberpunk dystopia).
It's also technically a sequel to Ask Firestarter Spitfire
keen sedge
yeah but cyberpunk dystopias are cool
rapid nacelle
In a general sense, how do folks feel about DMs handing out "meta information" that wouldn't necessarily be available to a character, and having which could materially change the decisions a player makes? Specific example, if you're firing a black powder weapon and you roll a misfire... there's a certain % chance it may be a simple misfire (it's perfectly safe to re-cock the hammer, take aim and fire again), but there's also a % chance that what you have is a "hang fire", IE the charge has ignited, and it WILL go off some time in the next 30 seconds... you just can't tell exactly when. And looking down the barrel to check could result in getting shot in the face. And IRL, IIUC it's very difficult to tell the difference between a hang fire and a misfire, even if you're a trained shooter
With that in mind, I'm trying to get a consensus on whether folks generally (yes I know every player group may be different) would prefer to roll misfire results themselves, and know exactly what's happened, or have the DM roll and only give the players as much information as the character themselves would have
"My gun has just gone "click", and I don't know if I'm about to get shot in the face"
novel eagle
In a general sense, how do folks feel about DMs handing out "meta information" t...
Well, you never look down the barrel, period.
That said, rather than the complicated hang fire/misfire rule, I'd just simplify it to plain misfires & allow another attempt to fire next round, or misfires require clearing the pan and re-arming it with fresh powder.
keen sedge
that does indeed sound needlessly complex
i'd just have "gun jams, take action to clear" or "cant fire this turn"
rapid nacelle
Ahh, you see this is specific to black powder weapons (apparently modern firearms never jam or misfire), and includes random consequences for a "misfire" (which is determined as part of your to-hit roll), anything from "nothing happens" to "hang fire" to "the gun literally detonates in your hand, horribly maiming you"
keen sedge
why tho
rapid nacelle
For example, a flintlock has a 10% chance to misfire on any shot, therefore if you roll a 1 or a 2 when rolling to hit on a D20, you've misfired, and you have to roll a D100 to figure out exactly what went wrong and how bad it is for you and/or your intended target
(a 7 or less would be a miss anyway)
rapid nacelle
why tho
Flava n3n and also to reflect that IRL, black powder weapons really were just heinously dangerous and unreliable
keen sedge
apparently modern firearms never jam or misfire
its more that the odds of modern firearms jamming in comparison to black powder is negligible
it certainly cant be represented on a 1/20 chance for every time you fire, that would literally be the least reliable gun released in the last 50 years
novel eagle
Ahh, you see this is specific to black powder weapons (apparently modern firearm...
They absolutely do, it's just less common. (Modern weapons misfiring/jamming.)
rapid nacelle
Basically the only two scenarios where it wouldn't be instantly clear what happened are "hang fire" (where the gun appears not to fire, but goes off 1D6 actions later, which the original table explicitly tells the GM to roll) or a "misfire" where there's simply a click and the gun never goes off at all. Everything else happens instantly in-universe, whether the gun goes off with more or less power than intended, or simply blows up in your hand
rapid nacelle
> apparently modern firearms never jam or misfire
its more that the odds of mode...
Yeah, which is probably why the whole gaming system just... omits a jam/misfire/malfunction mechanic except on old black powder weapons
novel eagle
Basically the only two scenarios where it wouldn't be _instantly_ clear what hap...
What system is this?
rapid nacelle
The Palladium Books Megaversal/Rifts system
novel eagle
Ahh.
keen sedge
never heard of them
rapid nacelle
They've got literally scores of books from every conceivable setting from high fantasy to far-future Sci-Fi to Zombie Apocalypse, operating off a single core set of mechanics, and only one article in a suplemental, optional magazine addresses black powder weapons, and that's the only time any gun ever came with a misfire mechanic
But hey. Muskets are cool and I like 'em :3
novel eagle
never heard of them
It's a "kitchen sink" rules/setting.
rapid nacelle
My reason for the debate is, "knowing exactly whether you have a hang fire or a misfire might change what the player decides to do in a meta way". And I know opinions are split on whether or not that's a good thing
novel eagle
Unfortunately this is an "it depends" thing. Basically a combination of what your players prefer & what's best for your table.
It's a saying in English. Means it has practically anything you could think of.
rapid nacelle
Whether you expect to need it or not
And yes, Rifts does have an extremely "kitchen sink" mentality, but only like... 3 or 4 mechanics are actually essential to make a game work. Everything else is pretty much just "optional cool shit"
novel eagle
Ah. Basically, I'm saying it's a type of RPG rules that tries to cover every possible situation. It has rules for everything.
rapid nacelle
... And yet no rules for rest/sleep, despite repeated references to how your Physical Endurance lets you do [thing] for [time period] before "needing to stop and take a break"
... which would actually be really damn useful, LOL
BBS tho, it's lunch o'clock
keen sedge
i dont like that system, its too... fuzzy for my brain
i need hard rules, atleast to form a core of how that system works
i loved pathfiner 1e, havent had the chance to look too hard at 2e
i have the starfinder core books
yeah 2e is very different to 1e
1e was basically a better D&D 3.5
novel eagle
Remaster isn't out yet, but it's coming.
novel eagle
i dont like that system, its too... fuzzy for my brain
You might like Savage Worlds. It uses a similar "better skill = bigger die" mechanic, but has a lot more specific rules.
keen sedge
yeah but that would require me to learn a new system
im barely on top of 5E
novel eagle
Fair.
I still want to run a game of Pugmire, which is basically 5e Lite
But with animal people
Mhm. Humanity disappeared, the world fell to ruin, and their companions have now risen to a medieval-fantasy level of society. The main factions are:
The Kingdom of Pugmire, ruled by dogs
The Monarchies of Mau, ruled by cats
The Diaspora of Rodents, rats & mice living at the fringes of dog & cat society
The Badger Clans, barbarian mustelids ruled by a Badger King
There's also rules for lizards and birds, but they're from far-away lands and not common to the setting.
It's a great little setting. And since it's based off 5e, you can pull stuff from there (or even older editions, with some conversion).
There's a new edition coming out later this year, Realms of Pugmire, which does away with the OGL and basically just cleans up the rules a bit.
bold sinew
lone widget
Oooo, sounds cool. I wonder if it's set in the same world as Vox Machina and the other campaigns, just many tens of thousands of years later?
bold sinew
Possibly but it's gonna be very interesting either way
novel eagle
Candela Obscura is a new tabletop roleplaying game that places you in the roles of investigators working for an esoteric order, which uses centuries of knowledge to fight against a mysterious source of corruption and bleed. In this game of gothic horror, individuals of varied talents are brought together under the organization Candela Obscura. You’ll pursue strange occurrences and encounter dangerous magicks, fighting back against a mysterious source of corruption and bleed. Candela Obscura is the first to use the Illuminated Worlds System, a newly designed system that lends itself to narrative, arc-driven play (see more about Illuminated Worlds below).
Sounds like this is more like a fantasy Call of Cthulhu-ish setting than the Vox Machina world.
7 pm Pacific
I don't care how good it is, I'm not staying up past midnight to watch these folks.
bold sinew
as long as it's not as complex as Call of Cthluhu
consider it's Vox Machina, it's probably engineered to be simple to get into
novel eagle
There's already a couple good CoC alternatives. Namely Trail of Cthulhu, and the upcoming Cthulhu Awakens.
Or you could go dirt simple with Tiny Cthulhu.
novel eagle
Rules light cyberpunk RPG is officially out.
There's also a bundle with everything that got funded from the Kickstarter: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/406767/CBRPNK-AUGMENTED-BUNDLE
final wedge
@novel eagle funny read https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/432420
novel eagle
Picked it up, mostly for the maps & to mine for ideas whenever I run a game of Scum & Villainy. I have zero interest in the system though, as it's basically PF1e with a few tweaks.
novel eagle
novel eagle
tl;dr A lot of the proposed changes for D&D One (aka the new anniversary edition) are very similar to how 4e did things, and that actually works well.
prime nimbus
4e did a lot of good things but also reflavored the game in an undesirable way to the primary population
novel eagle
Eh. It pissed off a lot of old school fans, but tons of new people picked it up, which was the entire idea in the first place.
prime nimbus
I'm definitely the sort of person to prefer crunchy complicated systems, but the addition of minions as a class of monsters is great
keen sedge
4E turned the game into a combat focused boardgame
when you're coming from 3.5 which was soo open in what you were able to do, 4E was incredibly restrictive in comparison
i liked 4E but then it was my first TTRPG i ever played
and 4E has a lot of really good ideas
novel eagle
That's a common belief, but it's not actually true in practice. You're still free to do what you want, there's even advice for the DM on handling improv when things aren't strictly covered by the rules.
keen sedge
but like, why can i only shoot my longbow 300ft?
keen sedge
That's a common belief, but it's not actually true in practice. You're still fre...
sure but the vaaaaaast majority of the rules described were combat focused with very little for anything outside of that
even 5E is pretty light on out of combat stuff in comparison to 3.5 or pathfinder 1E
novel eagle
sure but the *vaaaaaast* majority of the rules described were combat focused wit...
I mean, that's D&D in general. it's focused on rules for combat, and gives short shrift to every thing else.
keen sedge
true, combat is always going to be the majority of the game, as thats the most interesting bit for most people
but the options for out of combat roleplay and puzzles were severely handicapped in 4e more or less by design
rapid nacelle
Does D&D have guidelines for awarding EXP?
novel eagle
Eh. I liked the rules for Skill Challenges as an out of combat option.
novel eagle
Does D&D have guidelines for awarding EXP?
Yes, though each edition does it differently.
rapid nacelle
Makes sense
novel eagle
old school D&D gave you XP based on how much gold value you hauled out of the dungeon.
rapid nacelle
I thought it was interesting when getting into the Megaversal/Palladium system, how the single biggest way to earn EXP was to avoid a fight
novel eagle
AD&D and future versions gave XP for monsters killed, and later for completing certain tasks.
novel eagle
I thought it was interesting when getting into the Megaversal/Palladium system, ...
That's definitely an old school way of doing it. Original D&D could be extremely deadly, and avoiding a fight (or tricking your opponent into killing themselves) was the most effective tactic.
After all, your XP was based on gold, not on actually fighting.
rapid nacelle
Basically, a GM can give out EXP for whatever the hell they feel like, but the following is a suggested framework from one of the books I've got:
keen sedge
i dont like EXP based leveling in a TTRPG, as that means you're going to end up with one char who's a higher level than the others
milestones make more sense to me in that context
prime nimbus
The experience to gold incentive was very interesting in that it was a very strong and specific motivator
It's restrictive, but it strongly guides towards a specific type of game that is sometimes desirable
keen sedge
in my opinion, gold is motivation enough
prime nimbus
Yes but what if gold was the only way you could improve rather than one way?
lime tusk
my take on 4e was that it was far too "mechanical balance" focused, which my players found led them to focus on trying to figure out optimal moves rather than banter and rp. 5e took the mechanical balance from 4e but put it into a better framework that was less about trying to squeeze out one extra damage die or one extra square of move.
keen sedge
my take on 4e was that it was far too "mechanical balance" focused, which my pla...
right yes, thats the words im thinking of
it boiled the game down a lot more and forced you into optimisation subconsiously
novel eagle
There's definitely an element of mechanical optimization to 4e, but our group still had plenty of banter and RP.
3e was worse in that it forced you to optimize during character creation/leveling, or else you were screwed in combat.
keen sedge
3e or 3.5e?
novel eagle
Both, though it was much worse in 3e
keen sedge
tbh i never played 3.5, only pathfinder 1E
novel eagle
Monte Cook, one of lead designers for 3e, even came out later and said they built "trap" options into character creation so as to reward the people who had "system mastery."
keen sedge
and i remember pathfinder letting you have a feat that lets you used a sword scabbard as a weapon, or a knotted rope as a blunt spiked chain, or a torch
keen sedge
Monte Cook, one of lead designers for 3e, even came out later and said they buil...
ah. that i didnt know.
thats mean.
novel eagle
Yeah, I was pretty pissed off about it.
keen roost
If anything I'm glad that is actually true
12 year old tale would be relived she's not just a moron
That said I still have fun with 3e as a system but it is very that way
lime tusk
3e definitely felt more "optimize your build". 4e felt like "optimize each move in combat".
novel eagle
You're not the only one. A lot of people were upset about it, because they didn't understand why their characters felt ineffective, only to find out it was designed that way.
novel eagle
3e definitely felt more "optimize your build". 4e felt like "optimize each move...
I much prefer the latter.
rapid nacelle
... Oof o3o I got sent to Lake Laogai because my post was too long
rapid nacelle
Anyway, as I was saying, while Rifts lets GMs hand out experience points however they please, here's a suggested framework:
keen roost
Which is a problem I have with 5e, which while it has a lot of interesting stuff in the subclasses there's almost always like. . . one good way to do each thing
But see again I prefer exalted so
novel eagle
Yeah, at this point, I'm leaning towards 4e as my preferred D&D, but I'd rather play other systems entirely.
keen roost
I want to do more BITD and related but I'm already stuck
novel eagle
I'm looking forward to 13th Age 2e, which should hit Kickstarter this summer.
novel eagle
I want to do more BITD and related but I'm already stuck
Oh, I would LOVE to run a game of Scum & Villainy sometime.
keen roost
I would also love that yeah
I guess tag me if it happens? lesbian space pirate is not NOT exactly my thing
delicate cloud
and i remember pathfinder letting you have a feat that lets you used a sword sca...
Here is my problem with rule heavy systems like previous version of D&D
Let's take this as an example
If there is a feat for it, it means you can't normally do it, or the feat becomes worthless
Sometimes attention to detail and options actually do lower player freedom for the sake of more complexity and a lot of the times I don't like that.
keen roost
In exalted we call this "Air-Breathing Mermaid Technique"
novel eagle
I guess tag me if it happens? lesbian space pirate is not NOT exactly my thing
Sure! On a related note, I also want to run a game of Thirsty Sword Lesbians.
rapid nacelle
Combat
Zero points for fighting that's just to show off, too proud to stand down, gets the rest of the group in trouble, or any stupid or selfish reasoning.
25-50 points for killing or subduing a minor menace.
75- 100 points for killing or subduing a major menace.
150-400 points for killing or subduing a great menace. Additional Experience Points are likely.
Other Actions. Reasoning & Role-Playing
10-25 points for performing the right skil l (successful or not), at the right time, for the right reason. For mid to high level characters (4th level and up), this might apply only to skills performed when they are absolutely critical or done under stressful conditions.
25-50 points for a clever, but futile idea.
25-50 points for using good j udgment or one ' s power or skill well.
25-50 points for playing in character when i t would have been easier not to.
25-100 points for a clever, useful/helpful idea or action.
50-100 points for avoiding unnecessary violence; self-restraint or talking, bluffing or intimidating oneself (and associates) out of trouble or danger.
50- 100 points for a small act of self-sacrifice, or an act of kindness, mercy, or compassion.
50- 100 points for insightful and helpful deductive reasoning or keen observation.
50- 100 points for a successful daring or heroic action (whether it was clever or not).
75-150 points for playing in character/playing one's alignment when circumstance or powerful temptation begged otherwise.
100 points for a quick thinking idea or action that was helpful.
100-200 points for insight or deductive reasoning that plays a huge role in a critical plan or saving lives.
200 points for a critical plan or action that saves the character' s own life and/or a few comrades.
400-1000 points for a critical plan or action that saves the entire group and/or many innocent people.
100-300 points for endangering the character' s own life (self-sacrifice) to help or save others.
500-700 points for a genuine life and death self-sacrifice in a situation where the character's heroism seemed likely (or almost certain) to cost him his life. Leaping in front of an energy blast meant for someone else to save that person, even though the blast is likely to kill the hero, or offering his/her own life to save the group or an innocent person (and the exchange truly seems to be a death sentence with no apparent chance for escape). Odds are that the character will really die!
keen roost
Sure! On a related note, I also want to run a game of *Thirsty Sword Lesbians*. ...
YES TSL
prime nimbus
This sort of complicated experience distribution is excessive
novel eagle
keen roost
I got halfway through a pitch of that set in The Locked Tomb universe but I lost my players
alas
novel eagle
I got halfway through a pitch of that set in The Locked Tomb universe but I lost...
I had to look that up, it's part of the Gideon the Ninth setting? I've been meaning to read that.
keen roost
Yes it's the Gideon setting
keen sedge
Here is my problem with rule heavy systems like previous version of D&D
Let's ta...
i agree and disagree with that statement
i would argue that im my previous example of using a sword scabbard as a weapon, you would need to be specifically trained and experienced in that fighting style for it to be more effective than maybe a suprise trick, thus making it a feat make sense
however that doesnt mean you couldnt use a scabbard as a physical thing in other situations, you just wouldnt be as good with it
and if your DM and table think that needing a feat to do that is dumb, then you're always free to ignore it
delicate cloud
Yeah but it's not just about that specific feat
keen sedge
pathfinder gave you a lot of rules you were free to ignore at your leisure, unlike 5e which gives you barely enough to run the system
delicate cloud
The more rule heavy a system is, the more things and actions tend to be carved into their specific thing
keen sedge
true
delicate cloud
IT's just my preference personally tho
keen sedge
and thats fine!
delicate cloud
A more complex system is more engaging as a game
rapid nacelle
One thing I like about Rifts is that it's a "kitchen sink" system - you can find specific rules for a huge number of situations, objects and things
delicate cloud
I am more looking for a platform for roleplay, the game part doesn't need to be overly deep for that, and in some cases in my experience it gets in the way if it is
keen sedge
i like well-written and thought out rules
i hate relying on hashing things out with a DM to let me do a specific thing that wont work with my next DM because they look at the world differently
rapid nacelle
But you're free to tweak, massage or flat-out ignore a bunch of them if they don't work for you
keen sedge
you are obviously free to disagree, this is personal preference after all
delicate cloud
True, but at some point, you'd rather pick a better system for what you are trying to do if you have to torture a system into being completely different
keen roost
I guess the flipside of that is ruleslawyering
novel eagle
I tend to bounce back and forth between the two. I like a nice, crunchy tactical system like 4e somedays. Other days, I prefer a "story game" that lets me do whatever TF I want (within reason).
keen roost
where the letter of the rule overrides how the world would seem to work
keen sedge
True, but at some point, you'd rather pick a better system for what you are tryi...
but at that point you're arguing in favour of switching to pathfinder
keen sedge
where the letter of the rule overrides how the world would seem to work
thats fair
delicate cloud
Pathfinder is extremely rule heavy
So if anything in my case I'd rather switch off it
Rather than ignore half the rules to make it fit my style more
keen roost
I'll be honest no ruleset survives first contact with me anyway
It's never perfect, i always tweak things
delicate cloud
But yeah I do agree that if you have to rework 5e for example to have a bunch of more depth, you'd be better off playing pathfinder or 3.5 or 4e
Oh yeah, tweaks are always necessary
I prefere 5e for fantasy but I do tend to like a more rule heavy system for sci-fi.
There is something in scifi that doesn't work for me if I can't tweak a spaceship specs
unreal oracle
I think a lot of this depends on the table, I'm in a group that needs something more complex than 5e.
5e is still my go to for newer players.
delicate cloud
Agreed, 5e is an extremely good introduction to PnP
keen roost
Mmm
keen sedge
agreed
delicate cloud
It's so good with tricking you into thinking about your character, thanks to the backgrounds and the personality traits
keen roost
I do wish it was a little more mechanically tied in
But I'm also a shameless FATE person so
delicate cloud
That's straight up the best tool to hook a new player they could have made
Fate works because the traits are such a big part of the game that everyone has to know them about pretty much every other character, it'd definitely be harder to tie them into the gameplay more in D&D when there is a lot more stuff going on besides them
keen sedge
i agree, backgrounds are an amazing addition although i feel they're a bit... restrictive still
i think i'd prefer backgrounds if the ones provided were suggestions and you could choose a few traits to mix together and make your own background a lot easier
obviously you can just take a background and rewrite it to fit whatever you're going for but again, i prefer things like that to be codified into the rules rather than relying on hashing things out with a DM
delicate cloud
Like, one thing was tying alignment, since it was like, a pretty easy axis to keep track of
I think that RAW traits you can make up your own
keen roost
I like rewarding deliberately suboptimal play?
delicate cloud
The ones in the book are suggestions
keen roost
Not in the sense of "my guyism" but in the sense of "the character doesn't take a backseat to the rule"
prime nimbus
Yeah, rewarding interesting but suboptimal play is a great idea
delicate cloud
That's already the intent, the problem is that it's up to the DM to remember 4-5 traits per player and reward them following them, which is definitely way too much for anyone to do
keen roost
I don't know if you have to memorize them? Typically the player is good about saying "I tag this thing"
. . . And I guess I'm typical minding this in that When a player gives me a character I tend to track back a couple generations to be like "heres a stable of story hooks I could use" and I just. . . tend to remeber that stuff
Also the ability to occasionally go "here's a mechanical edge for you as a bribe to not derail my session" is nice
novel eagle
I have a lot of fun with shadowrun generally and that has a lot of cronchyness
Man, I have a lot of nostalgia for Shadowrun, but the systems are crunchier than granola.
novel eagle
Previously, you could not
You actually could. Tasha's just gives guidance on how to do it, while the original books were "wing it."
keen sedge
i would love to properly play shadowrun
i love cyberpunk, cybernetic enhancements, guns, magic, awesomesauce
prime nimbus
Well yes
delicate cloud
About traits, you aren't tied to the ones of the book, I found the relevant passage
I always did it that way but I didn't remember if it was because I just did or if it was written in the rules
prime nimbus
When I say "You could not" I mean "There's no structure in the game books that supports it."
Of course you can do anything
delicate cloud
In the sense that you are meant to make up your own
That's how the book tells you to play the game
keen sedge
and as i mentioned before, i dont like systems that just tell you to "wing it"
prime nimbus
I like crunchy systems, but winging it is very valid
keen sedge
it is! and i've had a lot of fun winging my chars
novel eagle
i would *love* to properly play shadowrun
I would probably default to SR4e/20th Anniversary Edition, as the later editions are just poorly edited, and the earlier ones are... incredibly dense.
keen roost
"Wing it with an eye on game balance"
keen sedge
but it doesnt fit into my brain as neatly
keen roost
point buy everything
delicate cloud
Yeah I'm just saying that background aren't as restrictive as you might think, you chose to say within those limitations.
delicate cloud
Oh well, some people might
keen sedge
or just ignored it
delicate cloud
But the book literally asks you not to stay within those limitations
keen roost
I so seldom get to actually play as a player I probably don't have the same perspective I guess
I want people to hash things out with me because that's fun
Sister Hope is the first time I've played as a player since like
a decade of PNP
I think I was 19 the last time I played a campaign longer than a session as a player
novel eagle
I haven't actually been able to play an RPG for over a decade. Just don't have friends with time/interest.
delicate cloud
The few bad calls I made (well at least those I recognised as bad calls after the fact) were always not allowing a player to do something they wanted because they tought it was more fun.
Now I'm trying to catch myself from doing it
keen sedge
ok sorry i think i want to make something a bit clearer here: i like more rules because it means i get to use them to come up with something that i have a reasonably balanced basis for when i come up with a stupid idea, and when i go to the DM, we're looking at the same base rules when deciding what needs to be changed
if we're literally just making it up based on nothing, that takes longer, and usually involves more arguing debating and has a good chance of being broken one way or another
i also like being able to reliably take those ideas from one campaign to another should i wish to
rather than me saying "hey i wanna build a car" its "oh i had an idea for a car, and here are the existing rules for doing that so i made something using them but i had some other ideas that thematically work better with some tweaking"
those two situations are very different in my head
keen roost
Ah yeah that makes more sense
I just realized my current 5e game is four years old now
delicate cloud
Oh yeah, I specifically meant the personality traits here
Which basically anything can slot there
And you don't have to change any underlying rules
For more complex changes to a background you do need to hack the game more, for sure
But there isn't really a personality trait you can slot that would make you unbalanced as they have very tenuous gameplay effects, as you pointed out earlier
The closest I've seen was a semi-professional singer slotting a "I sing in the most inopportune times" as a flaw while playing a bard
That lady had a lot of inspiration in that campaign
lime tusk
personally I don't want my system to feel like it's overly focused either on build-optimizing or move-optimizing. I like systems that feel like you can do either or both if you want, but that it's not really necessary, and you can be effective enough if you just build something coherent.
novel eagle
I'm amazed how well the writer has managed to work the show events into a coherent game story, while making the players of each character fit so well.
Also, the current story is The Cutie Map, so I'm hyped.
lone widget
I f*cking LOVE Friendship Is Dragons.
sage fractal
lone widget
Wow, that DM table is...certainly something.
novel eagle
Oh yeah, Mercer got a custom table made for their studio a while back.
sage fractal
it's so cool
agile musk
nimble anchor
https://www.youtube.com/live/3yYB7b-dYaA?feature=share
guys im dm in a pony adventure. i feel like i kind of was lacking in the first episode.
recap: princess luna recounts of a prisum stone that holds a lot of power.
but the keys were scattered due to time and aparently twilight had a book to where its locations might be.
now that i did a bit of after action i feel like we got to twilights castle way to fast. there were no enemies orbaddies.
how can i make it better?
novel eagle
You don't need enemies, just challenges. Whether it's puzzles, social issues, or what. Give each player an opportunity to shine with whatever they & their character are good at. And if you're not sure, ask!
And if someone wants to kick something's ass, sure, put in combat.
novel eagle
Okay, I'm amused by the fact one of the stretch goals is to literally make a conlang for Draconic.
steep narwhal
just copy ido and call it a day
novel eagle
novel eagle
bold sinew
They're also upping the prices for the books to 70$ apparently
final wedge
Yikes
steep narwhal
I have negative interest in the revised 5.5e
novel eagle
I'm torn, because I like the changes they're making to 5.5e, but I'm pissed off at the company, and I'd kinda rather play something else.
novel eagle
No, it's a revision of Pathfinder 2e. Just cleaning up the presentation, making a few minor rules tweaks, and kicking the OGL to the curb.
We're going to wind up with a few competing licenses for a while.
Frankly, I'd rather everyone switch over to Creative Commons.
But I understand there can be a few glitches with designating protected content vs. open content with that.
Yup, that's the most likely.
I know Evil Hat relieased their Fate rules under CC, you can look to them to see how it's done.
steep narwhal
tfw it's time to redeem your Backerkit rewards and the Monte Cook website keeps crashing
novel eagle
novel eagle
Might just want to come back later when it's stable.
steep narwhal
might want to just come back when it's your face
novel eagle
might want to just come back when it's your face
That can be arranged.
No, I have no idea what that means, shut up.
final wedge
Lol
novel eagle
This is the new TTRPG developed by the Critical Role folks, will be used in their upcoming campaign.
Comments on Reddit indicate it's a modified Forged in the Dark system
sage fractal
lone widget
I'm watching episode 5 of Critical Role's second campaign, and I f*cking LOVE how Matt does sound effects and voice effects for enemies, especially ones as inherently goofy as Gnolls.
novel eagle
I need to watch that but, goddamn, that's a lot to listen to.
lone widget
It is, but it is so worth it. So many laughs, great jokes, awesome roleplay, and D&D chaos.
novel eagle
keen roost
I managed to run a combat in tonights session that perfectly drained almost all spells and left all but one PC at less than 10% HP
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
prime nimbus
Now do five more before a long rest
steep narwhal
What can I say, except, you're welcome
keen roost
You're. . . 25% thanked
bold sinew
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sibw?Meet-the-Crew-of-the-Zoetrope
Some more details on the upcoming Howl of the Wild adventure (Airship world journey/expedition + adventure) and their Iconics (canonical adventurers)
- Iruxi are the Lizardfolk (minus OGL) remaster not an entirely new ancestry. The Iconic character is the expedition leader of the adventure path.
- Minotaurs will be added. The iconic is a research assistant of the expedition leader.
- Centaurs will be one size larger by the looks. THe Iconic is a hot-head scientist
- Merfolk. An Aquatic ancestry with many magical aptitute but require being hydrated to survive. The Iconic is the navigator of the expedition.
- Athamaru, amphibious frog/fish people. Also requires access to water but not as much as merfolk. The iconic is the cook of the group.
- Awakened Animal. You're literally an animal awakened for one reason or another. The iconic is a medic/druid sand-badger.
- Surki are an Insect ancestry. They absorb magic passively and metamorphose into a form adapted to the kind of magic they're exposed to. The iconic is a mechanic, keeping the airship intact.
oops, forgot two
lone widget
Oooo, is this for Pathfinder?
lone widget
bold sinew
Merfolk will likely require a constant source of fresh water, the new amphibic ancestry will probably need only regular access
Centaurs are probably gonna be large
prime nimbus
This merfolk mobility device is cool and all but real merfolk use a Segway to move around
bold sinew
as opposed to 5e centaurs, which are technically a kind of pony because WotC is afraid of the consequences of letting players play a large character that might not fit in a dungeon while Paizo will probably just from now on print on the player guides if large characters will work
I mean it's basically a segway
magical segway with a balance wheel and water barrel
prime nimbus
It's not humiliating enough to use
bold sinew
lol
lone widget
Yeah, how would a merfolk character even work? Aren't they basically water-locked?
Wait, nvm
Me smart like dump truck, me not see picture above. 
bold sinew
it's still an issue
but tbh Paizo isn't afraid of that
the Skeleton ancestry turns off normal healing, normal healing will kill you. You have to heal by undead means (negative energy)
the Ghoran ancestry does not need to eat or drink when they get sunlight but if they are underground or not in sunlight their rations are double as expensive as normal
lone widget
Gonna be honest, I get why it's designed that way, since it's fantasy and all, but it feels very limiting, very clunky, and very non-flexible. Some sort of spider-leg device or a bipedal leg attachment would've been better (it's within Pathfinder limitations, since unlike D&D they do indeed have advanced technology thanks to literal aliens crashing into the world).
bold sinew
the Poppet ancestry is literally flammable
I would wait until they release the ancestry and see what Paizo has provided as tools for Merfolk
but by high probability, Merfolk will be at home in campaigns with ships
lone widget
bold sinew
the centaur players will probably not be able to participate in any campaign with tight corridors very well, they will need campaigns out in the open with lots of space
prime nimbus
Now I want to find that one 4chan thread again
Where they talk about maximizing the squeeze into tight spaces feats
bold sinew
not safe for manechat but I know the one you mean
steep narwhal
Now I have two shelves
novel eagle
Oooh
keen sedge
he was building one during our session yesterday >:(
rapid nacelle
I do like me some good shelving o.o
novel eagle
bold sinew
oh gonna have to watch that later, been waiting on CO to see the rules
novel eagle
The rules are apparently a modified Forged in the Dark game
novel eagle
I want the game with the wolf wizard
Okay, plus side, these bundles have some really good games in them.
Down side, all the games in the bundle are $0 for the Bundle Price, meaning you do not get a discount if you already own some of the games.
novel eagle
Exalted Essence is out. This is a slimmed-down version of the Exalted rules, so maybe the game is playable now.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/427275/Exalted-Essence
steep narwhal
Exalted is great
You would think that, wouldn't you
lone widget
I like how different the music is between Campaign 1 and Campaign 2 of Critical Role. Campaign 1 had a lot of classical fantasy-styled music, kinda like the stuff you'd find in Final Fantasy or Warcraft, while Campaign 2's music is a lot more wild and bouncy, and borrows heavily from the Witcher 3.
It really sets the mood for each campaign.
bold sinew
novel eagle
Shadowrun is the only dystopian RPG I really played extensively, and I'm glad they didn't go that far into the weird nomenclature... but dear god, that game is crunchy as fuck.
Also, our GM had to deus ex machina a reason why we didn't all die when the street sam threw a grenade into the heavily reinforced room. Chunky salsa effect would've been a TPK there.
rapid nacelle
... Ya boi really said "I cast fireball"
bold sinew
is it bad I kinda dig the setting that Zee came up with there
prime nimbus
It's not bad, but it is incoherent
novel eagle
Yeah, he over-exaggerates the slang. But you can get the feel of the setting from the RPG Cy-Borg (by the same people who did Mörk Børg).
bold sinew
I still need to play Mörk Borg
one day we'll get a cyberpunk RPG that is like the video but also self-aware
just throwing barely coherent cyberpunk at the player for the heck of it
bold sinew
"do we care what awombo is? nah, we are here to do a cyberpunk heist, roll you awombo bonus, even if nobody has a clue what it does"
novel eagle
CB is very hard to read, but the rules actually make sense (once you piece them together). There's a plain English version coming out.
rapid nacelle
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/393473/CYBORG-Core-Rules
... That cover is truly 1980s levels of violence against eyeballs
novel eagle
The interior is even more violence.
It's made to be garish and break the rules of formatting & layout. It's a whole genre now.
bold sinew
Mörk Borg wears itself very self ware
Your character has been put into a shitty world with cruel monsters in it. You'll probably die soon.
lone widget
Mörk Borg sounds like something the Swedish Chef would say.
novel eagle
🎶 Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue, Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!
lime tusk
that's not the name of a tennis player?
final wedge
novel eagle
keen sedge
I like monks
They're fun
novel eagle
I like the idea of monks, but... they have some mechanical issues.
prime nimbus
Monks are good actually if you homebrew a good monk
novel eagle
That's what Pointy Hat did
prime nimbus
Yes that's why I made my post
bold sinew
the pathfinder monks are a bit better since they're super adaptive but they buy that by having a lot of skill feats and skill increases during level ups
ie, skill monkey, similar to rogue, but more focused on adapting to the enemy rather than forcing crits or status conditions
rapid nacelle
I like monks
They're fun
"Haha, funny robe man go atatatatata"
rapid nacelle
X3 really?
keen sedge
yeah
a young man who got drunk a lot, had tavern fighter (mostly so he could use improvised weapons) and just whacked people with a crowbar
rapid nacelle
What class would Friar Tuck/a Christian monk be? Cleric?
Pray with a side of BONK, using only blunt weapons
rapid nacelle
D&D monks = anything Xiaolin I guess
keen sedge
basically
lone widget
bold sinew
god I love jocat
he needs to diversify into some other RPGs though, it would be cool to hear him talk about Cyberpunk RED, or like Powered by the Apocalypse
(though Zee Bashew covers part of that)
rapid nacelle
... So Monk is just Goku Mode. Gotcha 😛
lone widget
Rolling, if you want to have a good time, watch all of JoCat's Crap Guide To D&D. Every single episode is comedy gold.
rapid nacelle
I don't doubt it, based on this one!
prime nimbus
They're good
lone widget
The Ranger video is one of the funniest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_qzyTFSrTE
novel eagle
... So Monk is just Goku Mode. Gotcha 😛
There's a specific subclass for that.
bold sinew
Sadly pathfinder hides the goku content outside the monk class
bold sinew
novel eagle
I saw that! Very neat video.
Goes into the history of the word & its use in gaming. Very interesting.
prime nimbus
Grognards need to be more about grog and nards
steep narwhal
Mine came a few days ago but it went to my old address... Waiting for the forward....
keen sedge
novel eagle
novel eagle
New playtest material coming June 29th.
Will be the biggest UA they've ever done.
7 classes, new subclasses, revised subclasses
A few entirely new subclasses, others are revisions of existing ones
Lots of stuff inspired by playtest feedback
Weapon Mastery was a big hit, is here to stay (will be refining it)
Appears in additional classes: Rogue, Ranger, Paladin, Monk
All 7 classes return to their capstone ability at 20th level, instead of 18th; Epic Boons were popular, but people preferred capstones at level 20
Bard has a new 20th level feature, Word of Creation
Subclasses progressions reverted to the old style (class based) instead of all at the same levels, except now all classes get their subclass at level 3.
Adding more references to D&D's overall multiversal setting in the classes themselves, such as a power referring to the Feywild
prime nimbus
That sounds great
novel eagle
So far I've been very happy with the playtest process & the changes they're making.
novel eagle
The preorder for Phandelver and Below is up:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1515-visit-phandalin-d-ds-most-popular-starter-town
novel eagle
Premires at the top of the hour
Bards now get to choose whether to use the Arcane, Divine, or Primal spell lists when created.
keen sedge
...primal?
tho thats a legit awesome feature, bards always were a bit of a jack of all trades master, and belonging to, none, kind of dealio
novel eagle
Primal = nature spells, so mostly aimed at Druids and Rangers.
bold sinew
Pathfinder uses the same naming
novel eagle
4e used that naming as well
bold sinew
they also have Occult spell lists
keen sedge
huh, they used to be all divine
maybe its just been a while
still that brings a lot of options
novel eagle
Yeah, Primal was created for 4e, and recreated for the new 2024 edition.
keen sedge
i started with 4e so im genuinely shocked i hadnt heard that before
bold sinew
it's a way better thematic distinction
keen sedge
agreed
bold sinew
most divine spells for example (in pathfinder 2e) are buff/debuff and healing related spells
rarely will they do damage
and all the damage spells are heavily dipped in flavor relating to you smiting your enemy
novel eagle
College of Dance: gains Unarmored Defense, Agile Strikes (use Bardic Inspriation with an action, gain an Unarmed Strike as part of that action), Bardic Damage (use Dex instead of Str for Unarmed strikes).
Capoeira bard!
bold sinew
most of the primal spells will be relating to animals and plants, using your surroundings, such as entangle
pathfinder does sadly hide a lot of the explosive spells in the arcane list
and the occult list has evil spells
novel eagle
14TH LEVEL: IRRESISTIBLE DANCE
You always have the Otto’s Irresistible Dance
spell prepared. You can cast it without
expending a spell slot.
keen sedge
its an irressistable spell
keen sedge
pathfinder does sadly hide a lot of the explosive spells in the arcane list
arcane casters tend to be glass canons or specalised in some other way
its a balancing act, what does each class do thats unique and useful while remining vaguely balaned compared to other classes
novel eagle
War Domain clerics gain access to Weapon Mastery, nice
Druid:
Wild Shape has returned to 2nd level. The
feature has returned to using Beast stat blocks
and has new rules for how you interact with
those stat blocks. In addition, using Wild Shape is
now a Bonus Action for all Druids, and Swim
Speeds are available from the beginning.
Circle of the Sea subclass, if you wanna be Aquaman (but useful)
I'll come back to Monk, they're brand new to playtesting
Paladin:
Lay on Hands is now a bonus action
No cantrips,, instead they get Weapon Mastery
Paladin's Smite, formerly Divine Smite, now gives a list of Paladin-exclusive smite spells that you always have prepared
Ranger looks to be massively reworked, will have to dig into that later
Rogue:
- Sneak Attack is no longer required to be used on
your turn with the Attack action. - Weapon Mastery is a new 1st-level feature.
- Steady Aim is a new 3rd-level feature, imported
from Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything. This
addition was requested by many playtesters. - Cunning Strikes is a new 5th-level feature, giving
tactical options to Sneak Attack.
Stream is about to start
Oh, I missed that Cleric change: all Clerics choose to be Protector (heavy armor) or Thaumaturge (bonus cantrip + add WIS to your Religion skill checks).
Greater Divine Intervention is now patterned on the wish spell, for more structure.
Druids get the same choice of better armor or better cantrips + skill bonus
Wild Shape no longer gives you hit points from the beast form you take (Circle of the Moon subclass does get them). In exchange, you no longer get knocked out of Wild Shape form after taking X damage, you only lose it if reduced to 0 HP.
prime nimbus
That's a good change
novel eagle
Very
prime nimbus
Makes it much more easy for me to take less tanky wildshapes
novel eagle
That plus bonus-action Wild Shape makes it much more flexible & fun.
Beast forms must be prepared each day, rather than just picking from any source whenever you want.
Lets players prep their stat blocks in advance, and DMs know what to expect from players when they Wild Shape
prime nimbus
I don't really like this because it's very easy for me to just look up statblocks on the fly
novel eagle
I like it, because it sets an easier baseline, but DMs can always houserule allowing players to just use whatever form they want.
keen sedge
I don't really like this because it's very easy for me to just look up statblock...
you're not every DM though
i struggle a great deal with that
prime nimbus
That makes sense
novel eagle
I fully expect WotC to sell card sets with Wild Shape stats for the MM beasts.
keen sedge
on the flipside i've never been fond of "you must prepare X uses of Y spells each day"
would rather have X spells prepared and use can use or not use at whim
novel eagle
Monk: Unarmed starts at d6, scales up to d12.
Weapon Mastery
Deflect Arrows can now apply to spells at high level
novel eagle
Now we can all be Goku
keen sedge
but at high level arrows become less common
prime nimbus
Oh good
keen sedge
good
prime nimbus
Attack roll spells are the ones that make sense for it
novel eagle
Completely revised Way of the Four Elements ("lowest rated subclass in the 2014 handbook" ouch)
Warrior of the Elements
Basically took the spell options and instead rolled them in as subclass abilities, uses less Discipline Points
other abilities to extend reach of unarmed attacks or add elemental damage to them
Fixed Way of the Shadow so you can see in your own Darkness.
novel eagle
Work pulled me away for a bit, so I've missed a big chunk
Will have to watch the recording later
novel eagle
on the flipside i've never been fond of "you must prepare X uses of Y spells eac...
Oh, I forgot to mention, it looks like this is just how it works now. You prepare X number of spells, that's it.
rapid nacelle
I never understood the logic of "preparing" spells, but then I probably just don't know how D&D "works" in-universe
In Rifts, you learn a spell and then you just... know it
If you have the Potential Psychic Energy (read: Mana/Magicka/Whatever) to cast it, and it's not a ritual, just say the words and Robert is your mother's brother
P.P.E. is recovered either by draining it from another living being (temporary, and works best when the giver is willing, or you kill them in a blood sacrifice), from magical items that function as "P.P.E. batteries", or by sleeping
prime nimbus
It's like assembling your Lego pieces into the shape of a grenade beforehand so you don't have to do it in six seconds
bold sinew
in universe there is only so much space in your brain
and a spell takes up that space
wizards have to read the spells from their book to put them int he brain and choose spells to forget to make space
Disc World uses the same system
rapid nacelle
Which again, is just a weird concept to me, given that I'm used to a system where - to continue that analogy, you simply have to say "I cast Grenade!" and a grenade magically and instantly flies at your target, as long as you have the mental strength left to make it work
prime nimbus
It's basically what Vancian magic is
Vance's magic system is unique and interesting and that's one reason it was chosen for DnD
bold sinew
in universe magic is much more complex, casting grenade requires you to draw a specific arcane pattern with your fingers, speak the right arcane words in a dead language and possibly even sprinkle some bat guano into the air
bold sinew
there is other casting types in tabletop too
rapid nacelle
in universe magic is much more complex, casting grenade requires you to draw a s...
Ohhh, yeah in Rifts some spells are like that, but most of them are just "point and say a magic word, and The Thing happens"
bold sinew
some casters like clerics can just pick any spell they want, their deity is the one doing the actual magic
rapid nacelle
And you can call on any spell you've learned, you don't have to keep reading a book and "forgetting" all but six of them
bold sinew
and sorcerers have to pick spells they have inherited from their magical parents
tbh Cantrips in tabletop are often more like that
prime nimbus
Sorcerors are a lot more loose
bold sinew
Prestidigitation is a spell you say that makes you smell nice and cleans your clothes
you can do that as often as you like
but it's not a powerful spell
it's low level magic that anyone could learn with minimal involvement that uses up so little of your brain space that it's not worth mentioning
bold sinew
Sorcerors are a lot more loose
in pathfinder 2e, sorcerers learn spells at level, it is very intense
prime nimbus
Like with Warlocks?
rapid nacelle
Prestidigitation is a spell you say that makes you smell nice and cleans your cl...
Oh yeah? Rifts has "Cleanse", it's a Level 2 spell (of a possible 15 levels)