Thing is, all this is the boring part of the leaks.
#general gaming
random steppe
Even disregarding the culture thing since things like that can change as leadership change, Nintendo doesn't need Microsoft nearly as much as Microsoft needs Nintendo.
They have no problems making headways in the western market while historically MS never was able to breach in the japanese one.
bleak lintel
Microsoft and Sega are the big rumor but nothing can move until activision is done.
random steppe
Dishonored 3.
I can't believe a post Redfall Arkane can make Dishonored 3 so I have no hope for it.
We'll see if they prove me wrong
bleak lintel
What about "Licensed IP Game", that one sounds fun.
random steppe
Good question
Yeah I have no idea what they could be doing.
If it's already in development they were pretty good at keeping this under wraps
bleak lintel
My guess is Star Wars.
bleak lintel
SW kind of went everywhere after they escaped the evil of EA.
grave tide
I can't believe a post Redfall Arkane can make Dishonored 3 so I have no hope fo...
Post Dishonored Death of the Outdider and post Deathloop
Romuald Capron left Arkane in 2021
random steppe
Deathloop is not my cup of tea but it was a pretty good game
And Death of the Outsider I don't have strong opinions on either
Like, comparing Redfall to either of those titles is an insult to them
Both had a pretty strong art direction and significant competence behind the make of it, even if they didn't land for me personally, Redfall has neither of those things.
Not to mention originality, for Deathloop faults, it's a title that tries to do something original, while Redfall is a soulless attempt at a cashgrab
slim thorn
Genryu said post-Redfall, not post-Dishonored
Redfall came after Deathloop/DotO, so pointing out that Deathloop/DotO exist and were good is only agreeing with the point that it's a tragedy how badly Arkane was gutted by Redfall's development process
grave tide
Arkane started falling after release of Dishonored 2
Because Dishonored 2 was in fact a commercial failure
slim thorn
I'm aware they weren't as well-received as D1-2, but not in the way that implies the studio had lost the ability to make great games; everyone seems to agree Deathloop was decent and interesting even if it wasn't the best thing ever
grave tide
Because Dishonored 2 was in fact a commercial failure
Launch sales were very bad and Dishonored was finished by very cheap Death of the Outsider
slim thorn
oh yeah, I always forget Prey was made by Arkane
grave tide
Arkane in fact is commecial failure studio
It could be saved by Microsoft like 7 years ago
But too late
Staff who did Dishonored 1,2 and Prey mostly left the studio
random steppe
Even not counting Dishonored 1 and 2 and prey, I definitely believe a company that made Deathloop can make...I don't even want to say a good game because I think Deathloop is a good game, but a game I like more
Redfall is just in another category
If someone comes to me and say that they love Deathloop I go "well thats good, hope you have fun"
If someone comes to me telling me they love Redfall I look for an exit because this is some sort of trap and they lured me into the premise to try to kill me
Since that person doesn't exist
sage iris
might not be a popular opinion but I actually really enjoyed deathloop, it has that dishonored DNA while also giving you full freedom and without restricting you with annoying systems like mana management and chaos which I didn't like that much in dishonored. It also feels really good when you learn the best way to do every encounter and then rush to do everything in one run, makes you feel like a pro speedrunner who effortlessly blazes through the game
slim thorn
(I played the original Dishonored once, and Prey, and none of the other relevant games, so all I can say about Deathloop is the footage and commentary I've seen on Youtube made it look pretty solid, just not something I'm in the mood for)
teal cliff
Deathloop also, writing wise, is completely unique from dishonored
it has this sense of comedy and fun dishonor couldnt afford bc of its tone
so its the same great gameplay in a new narrative genre so it doesnt feel too samey
random steppe
It didn't grab me but I did think as a game it wasn't creatively sterile at all.
slim thorn
watching a proper video about Redfall now is interesting; it's certainly a mess, but from the way people talk about it I was expecting even worse
quiet swift
It's the internet. Everything is overblown 13904092349238409238409 %
teal cliff
people said Balan Wonderworld might be the worst game of all time
quiet swift
(case in point: is Overwatch 2 literally the worst game ver created? Of course not)
wind stump
Some other game has overtaken OW2 now
gaunt marten
Balance Wonderworld is just a badly made game. It takes serious concerted effort and dedication to be the worst game of all time
See Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing
slim thorn
mm-hmm, all the famously badly reviewed games are review bombs, not actually terrible
quiet swift
1) You are special fighting shootboy who shoots things
2) Oh i get it, it's a metaphor for depression
3) Nintendo" ```
slim thorn
and usually because a lot of people had expectations for the game
slim thorn
```"There are currently three types of video game:
1) You are special fighting ...
hm... is Hollow Knight like a mix of all three?
just looking at my recent played games list
NieR is clearly both 1 and 2
quiet swift
And apparently a very large part of the OW2 reviews are chinese, who are (admittedly rightfully) pissed that there's flat out no official Blizzard games avaibable because of how they failed to renew licenses and whatnot
slim thorn
Yoku's Island Express and A Hat In Time are 3 although not literally Nintendo
well I'm assuming 1 should be "shoots or stabs" because then it really is a third of all games
gaunt marten
And apparently a very large part of the OW2 reviews are chinese, who are (admitt...
You can't review the nonexistence of a game
slim thorn
not with that attitude /s
teal cliff
See Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing
thats the exact game I was thinking of
static bluff
Speaking of Nintendo, F-Zero 99 is getting really hard. Pretty sure most everyone who is still playing are major league gamers or something. Especially if I play at 5am my time. Everyone who places has japanese characters in their name.
teal cliff
like you cannot legitimately tell me Balan Wonderworld is worse than Big Rigs, I don't believe anyone can have that opinion
quiet swift
You can't review the nonexistence of a game
ow2 is f2p, lets anyone review... boom, a million chinese review bombs
teal cliff
The "worst games of all time" will never be a popular game bc the worst games of all time have no redeeming qualities to them
quiet swift
Isn't the worst game that ET game? 
teal cliff
That's one of them.
The worst game of all time probably would tick a few boxes:
Looks bad, plays bad, minimal content, incredibly buggy
And then anything bad on top of that to discern from the contenders (A high price tag, offensive content, some external consequence like bricking PCs)
slim thorn
best and worst are equally impossible to define here
gaunt marten
The ET game was famously bad and lazily made in many ways, but if you consider it in a vacuum without the history and context behind it, Big Rigs is worse
slim thorn
for example, is a bad game with almost no content worse than a bad game with lots of content that's no fun to play through? or a bad game that somehow tricks you into playing that content but you're having no fun the whole time you're doing it?
gaunt marten
See League of Legends
slim thorn
and that quickly turns into what kind of player we're talking about; I hear about the latter experience all the time even though I've almost never had it myself
slim thorn
the kind you're focusing on, no
teal cliff
because if youre still playing, clearly something is encouraging you
slim thorn
my point is it's easy to argue that kind is even worse
teal cliff
If something has some reason to keep playing it, idk how it can be the worst game of all time, it msut have some positive quality
slim thorn
and that good/bad/etc have so many valid but contradictory meanings
slim thorn
If something has some reason to keep playing it, idk how it can be the worst gam...
this reminds me of Plato's argument that the greatest villains and tyrants of history must contain some good qualities in them, because otherwise they would've been unable to do all the evil things in the first place 
that's what happens when you use a definition of "good" that includes "skillful"/"competent"/etc
gaunt marten
In videogames this is the difference between compelling and good
Games are typically made to be compelling, not fun. Fun doesn't sell. Fun just makes a game more compelling, and that sells
teal cliff
Games are typically made to be compelling, not fun. Fun doesn't sell. Fun just m...
I really don't think theres a difference between these two.
If I'm not having fun I don't want to play the game
gaunt marten
Yes, for you perhaps
slim thorn
that's how it usually works for me personally, but even I've been tricked before
gaunt marten
There's a lot of people who play games and have a miserable time and come back tomorrow to play more
slim thorn
and yes, I hear reports of ^this incessantly from the genres I don't play
quiet swift
There's a lot of people who play games and have a miserable time and come back t...
All blizzard games, according to the blizz forums/reddits
slim thorn
to the point where it feels like the defining feature of some subgenres
gaunt marten
Some games are not enjoyable but they're compelling because they got you to think of improve in some way
And some games are compelling only because they were advertised correctly
teal cliff
And some games are compelling only because they were advertised correctly
Dark Souls 1 advertising its bad mechanics as just part of its "skill check" for "only the best players" sold the game immediately to many people to whom gatekeeping is their primary personality trait.
slim thorn
well, I wasn't going to bring it up, but Fromsoft games are the few times I've personally experienced this
but unlike a LoL player I actually quit after a few hours lol
teal cliff
Saying League players play despite not having fun isn't entirely accurate though
That'd be like saying gamblers are gambling to lose money
That's not what they want to happen, they've just accepted it as a potential consequence
slim thorn
I think that's exactly what "despite" means
teal cliff
League players continue playing League in the hopes of getting a match where they do well and have fun, and they've accepted that not every match will be like that
They're not compelled by the bad matches to keep playing
static bluff
The ET game was famously bad and lazily made in many ways, but if you consider i...
Technically, there was nothing lazy about making ET. It was the insane deadline that was given to the solo developer on the project. The fact that he even completed the game in the short timeframe he was given is a staggering feat! It's a fascinating story, really. The rockstar programmer they put on it was very accomplished.
slim thorn
yeah, most of the interesting bad games out there had some potential and even slightly actual goodness to them which needed other aspects to come together
like a video I just watched explaining how Redfall's gunplay is actually pretty satisfying, it's just not enough when the AI/quests/bugs are as bad as they are
teal cliff
They're not compelled by the bad matches to keep playing
Continuing from this point, I don't think any competitive game can be classed as a game people play despite not having fun. The goal is to win, and to the players of these games, winning is fun.
I think games people play that aren't fun is more accurate for games like Pathologic, where the intention is for it not to be fun
gaunt marten
Game Maker tutorial how to make a game from scratch in one week site: YouTube
slim thorn
I think you've mixed up "in order to" with "despite"
static bluff
That said I own ET and it sucks asssssssss
slim thorn
they play these games in order to have a fun match, in spite of the bad matches
we constantly hear about the players who seem to get nothing but bad matches partially because the player and the game have only so much control over whether a match is fun
teal cliff
they play these games _in order to_ have a fun match, _in spite of_ the bad matc...
Most video games have parts that a specific player won't find fun though
slim thorn
yes, which is why most of us are conditioned to push through that part to get to more of the good stuff, and often are rewarded for that
teal cliff
Yeah and thus competitive games are kind of the same as most other games in that regard, they are not games people play to not have fun
slim thorn
but there needs to be a limit to how far we take that, and often the not fun part didn't do anything to elevate the other fun parts and should've just been cut
yeah ok we're clearly in a violent agreement loop
gaunt marten
slim thorn
the original claim was simply that there are games which seem to have a lot of players who keep playing despite consistently not enjoying themselves
gaunt marten
Sega sale today
slim thorn
this is just empirically true because I can't stop hearing about them even though I don't even play these games myself, at most you can say you don't personally hear as many of those takes
static bluff
Segaaaa
slim thorn
and it was brought up only to make the point that this is a very different kind of "bad" game experience from a game that just has nothing to do or ends too early
teal cliff
I hear people complaining that they don't have fun playing League or OW yes, but I think the point of this convo is games that are not intended to be fun
which League and OW are intended to be fun
slim thorn
oh if you're talking about games where "fun" is the wrong word and we're after something more like "thought-provoking" or "emotional", then yes that's also a distinction that exists, but it's not the one anyone was making above
gaunt marten
Looks like good deals on Yakuza 0, Yakuza Like a Dragon, Two Point Hospital
It was the distinction I was making
slim thorn
like, I almost brought it up as another example of different kinds of goodness before we got sidetracked
so anyway what does Sega make
gaunt marten
Not Balan Wonderworld
Apparently despite how much it feels like Sega it's actually Square Enix
static bluff
Two Point Hospital is good
slim thorn
yeah looks like it's all genres I'm not into
gaunt marten
You would like Yakuza 0
slim thorn
I would?
gaunt marten
1- Story's pretty interesting.
2- Lots of fun detours, both for story and minigames.
3- Charming and unreasonably accurate Japanese aesthetic.
The story begins with introducing you to a small parcel of land in an incredibly dense part of Japan that is unoccupied and the crime families that fight over it
It doesn't take itself too seriously most of the time, but the dramatic moments are actually pretty good
slim thorn
I was always under the impression Yakuza's main draw was the quality of the open world, and therefore not my thing
gaunt marten
That is true, but it knows it can't compete with the higher budget GTA V, so instead it makes the "open world" really small and really dense.
slim thorn
ok that does help
gaunt marten
In regards to minigames
There's a bunch of them you have to interact with for story purposes, but you just get a taste of each, and after that point you're free to delve deeper into that minigame or move on. (There's also a bunch that you have to discover organically.)
hushed onyx
I looked at that and saw "hmmm, games that I might like, might like, might like...waaaaiiiiittt a second, I already have that one".
Turns out I wasn't logged in.
Of the games that are actually on the list, Endless Space 2 (even if they took out my favorite faction 😠), Persona 4 Golden, Total War Napoleon, and maaaayyyyyybe Two Point Hospital are the ones that interest me.
Though, thinking about it I never really cottoned to Endless Legend even though on paper it looked awesome for me, so maybe not ES2.
random steppe
Yakuza is one of those games series I had to accept aren't for me
I like the big set pieces and when the game has its big story beats, but the gameplay loop just doesn't grab me
teal cliff
I liked Yakuza 7
gaunt marten
I hear Like a Dragon has a very different core gameplay loop
teal cliff
Its a turn based RPG
so yes, very different.
(Like a Dragon = 7 for anyone not already aware)
sour hill
Yakuza 0 is awesome
gaunt marten
I'm still waiting for it to go on a good enough sale but I'm excited to try Like A Dragon
uneven epoch
Yakuza 0 is awesome
i tried that one but unfortunately the sheer amount of cutscenes at the beginning couldnt hold my attention. i tried pushin past them but it genuinely felt like for every three minutes of play i get ten minutes of talk
and i dont know these characters well enough yet for this much talk
so i stopped early on
maybe ill give it another shot when im in a better disposition for that game
sour hill
I was always under the impression Yakuza's main draw was the quality of the open...
Its main draw for me is how hype the story and combat is, and how easy it is to get immersed
dire gate
"Yakuza 7 Like a Dragon" is such a weird title for me
The whole series is "Like a Dragon" series in Japanese 
teal cliff
Frankly, "Seamless pairing" is an attractive picture bc I switch my controller between devices all the time. My PS5 controller is the community bike among my electronics rn lol
so if swapping it over is less annoying that'd be cool.
thorny loom
teal cliff
I saw this on reddit earlier, what Phil thinks doesn't matter compared to what Nintendo thinks lol.
Yeah I'd love to own Nintendo too Phil, they're not selling to either of us 
thorny loom
Yeah short of them flopping on a console gen or two I doubt they sell
teal cliff
Maybe if the Switch had been the Wii U part 2
but since that thing has outsold even the Wii, they're probably just fine as is lol
thorny loom
Still. A Fallout 3 remaster and oblivion remaster
gaunt marten
"Leaked"
thorny loom
Apparently Microsoft also had some talks of buying valve as well
unreal idol
lmao microsoft is fucking delusional
didn't they learn their lesson in the early 00s when they tried to buy nintendo then and they were literally laughed out of the office
random steppe
Well at least they'd get a pc client that works
thorny loom
They do have the money for it. But i doubt the ftc would allow most of those buys
random steppe
To be clear, with the amount of money Microsoft has, they could afford it, it's just that it won't happen, at least for Nintendo
harsh kestrel
Well then. Hello there, Microsoft. How are you doing with all of this.
little badger
river veldt
https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/19/23880146/phil-spencer-microsoft-xbox-acquirin...
LOL
quiet swift
gaunt marten
What an ugly thumbnail
harsh kestrel
IDK why people keep expecting the Switch version to be as good overall as the PS5, Xbox Series X, and PC versions when it's basically a generation and a half behind at this point
quiet swift
What an ugly thumbnail
That's the point
gaunt marten
Well I don't want to see it
quiet swift
IDK why people keep expecting the Switch version to be as good overall as the PS...
I don't think people are expcting the performance, but not to pay 70$ for what they're getting
harsh kestrel
It's the industry standard sadly
thorny loom
Yeah. Switch ports like that should be $50 tops
Companies want to complain game dev is expensive but dont want to do anything to improve the quality to justify it
teal cliff
I really don't think charging 70$ for a triple A game is the problem
games have been 60$ for a long time despite development costs increasing
Just as a natural effect of increased cost of operation, increased wages, and inflation.
I'm fine paying 70$ I just want the product to be good when I do.
quiet swift
Right but that's not the problem we're talking about here
70$ is okay (well a bit much but you get the idea) for say PC/PS5 etc level graphics and whatnot for MK1
teal cliff
It was mostly in response to what Sparkle's 2nd comment said.
quiet swift
70$ for the above switch version is not
slim thorn
mm-hmm, the real problem is that they keep pushing the upper limits of game size just for size's sake, when many AAA games would be a lot more fun and easier to deliver with less junk in them
heady bridge
It would help if the game was made with the Switch in mind from the ground up and not a watered down heavily compromised version of the PS5/Xbox Series versions shoehorned onto the system.
slim thorn
well apparently some people like Rockstar's games and sure those need to be big, but nowhere near as many as are being made big
gaunt marten
Development costs may have increased, but so have the margins
slim thorn
that is why they keep pushing in this direction
but it's not just financial costs, it's also working conditions
gaunt marten
I slid into an enemy and it pushed me through the floor and I fucking died
Oh, it happened again at the same spot. I think something's wrong with my game
slim thorn
weird, never happened to me
I have been knocked off platforms, and slid off platforms myself into spikes, but not by clipping
gaunt marten
It's around this spot https://i.imgur.com/b895KKs.png
I just go down through the floor into nothingness. A few seconds later I die
slim thorn
I guess I did kill the enemies here before sliding past them
gaunt marten
I figured I could just take the treasure at the end then go back since the respawn point is right next to me
mossy flume
For context on earlier discussions: It’s commonplace for discussions of acquisitions and mergers with other companies to take place when no such agreement will actually happen. Throwing around the idea of buying Valve or Nintendo isn’t really news. It doesn’t really mean anything.
Nintendo gets offers like that all the time, they have no desire to open a dialogue about it.
rose rose
Well they are very clear they'd acquire them if they could. They're also very clear they know they aren't for sale.
mossy flume
Yep
rose rose
This was also pre-zenimax and pre-Activision (note Activision is not even on their radar here), so their regulatory position was very different
mossy flume
Basically the thing is that companies will regularly test the waters on the off chance that a deal can be struck.
rose rose
More interestingly they appear to think they have high odds of acquiring TikTok in that email
Clearly did not happen
rose rose
Would it?
Less odd than the weird partnership with Oracle that ultimately actually happened
mossy flume
I suppose it was worth shooting for back when TikTok was being threatened to sell to an American company or get banned
rose rose
Microsoft wanting to buy the fastest growing app in the country in an industry they have failed to meaningfully enter seems pretty unsurprising to me.
Especially given it was on the table at the time
chilly mural
I enjoyed it when I played it
arctic fern
im gonna play some alyx in vr if anyone wants to join
wind stump
Something in a good way, lol
arctic fern
alyx phisics are cool!
quiet swift
little badger
teal cliff
That would have fit tho
wind stump
Rad.
thorny loom
DEAR GOD, NOT A UNION D:
That game is great lol
random steppe
Been trying out Lies of P and I'm impressed, it feels more fluid to me than in the demo, still unsure what they did with it but I swear it feels so much better to play
quiet swift
Oh that's good to hear. It felt stiff and jank when I tried the demo and it immediately put me off
thorny loom
Its basically closest we have to a bloodborne pc port
random steppe
I'm not sure if it's just me and I'm crazy, it's hard to explain why it feels better
thorny loom
dire gate
Been trying out Lies of P and I'm impressed, it feels more fluid to me than in t...
Oh yeah the Bloodborne 2
random steppe
I don't think it quite reaches the From Soft quality but it comes damn close to it
It's definitely the one that it comes the closest of the ones I've played not from FS
little badger
Been trying out Lies of P and I'm impressed, it feels more fluid to me than in t...
They changed the hit detection and rolling is more efficient.
random steppe
It's definitely part of it
Rolling is still pretty bad, they definitely want you to block
little badger
What section are you on?
random steppe
Basically just started, basically right after finding ||Geppetto||
little badger
Ah yes.
random steppe
Went pretty fast because I already played the demo up until that point
little badger
I did all the bosses in the demo. It was pretty fun.
random steppe
Basically the demo I stopped right where I am now
I already decided I was interested so I didn't play it a lot
little badger
Ah right.
quartz pawn
https://www.thegamer.com/doom-year-zero-dishonored-3-xbox-ftc-leak/
I liked the first Dishonored game's plot. 'To prove you didn't kill someone, you must kill everyone that works for who accused you'
Or, that's how I played it lol
thorny loom
Lmao too little too late https://x.com/tomwarren/status/1704157981909348580?s=46&t=bVzXPIZvXYyJJoEkCfgMsQ
Of course it was the government that leaked it 
fresh bane
I liked the first Dishonored game's plot. 'To prove you didn't kill someone, you...
To be fair it's not just to prove it wasn't you but to rescue the empress' daughter so she can rule instead of the corrupt people that framed you in the first place
dire gate
I heard that it was MS who leaked it
fresh bane
Because Dishonored 2 was in fact a commercial failure
I still can't believe that, I don't know what happened because surprisingly I haven't played Dishonored 2 yet but it baffles me it didn't get as much recognition and sales as the first one
slim thorn
I also played 1 but not 2, for no specific reason
I think a large part of sales comes down to how many people are "in the mood" on release day and you can't really predict that
little badger
fresh bane
More and more games recommending SSD as the minimum
mossy flume
slim thorn
that's a lot of video games
arctic fern
yeah but it frustrated me
there was a 4x4 box of buttons and on the walls a bunch of 4x4 grids with ytellow dots which i assumed represented potential buttons
i needed to press 3 buttons, so i was looking for a grid with 3 buttons or buttons that could maybe fit into the 4x4 grid
everything i tried didnt work
the frustration wouldnt be too bad except im phyisically walking around doing this
rancid herald
Lmao too little too late https://x.com/tomwarren/status/1704157981909348580?s=46...
this is the legal systems's version of warthunder
thorny loom
Was gonna say. This unity situation is basically the WOTC situation
little badger
arctic fern
havent we had crawing for a while?
slim thorn
iirc there are ways to squeeze into 1-block-high passages but they're unintended and require some weird movement most players wouldn't think to try
the ways I'm aware of all involve gliding with elytra
gaunt marten
Yeah but in this update you can destroy blocks
river veldt
the ways I'm aware of all involve gliding with elytra
you can put a trapdoor on a block and then stand in it and when you flap it down it'll put you into crawl mode
slim thorn
I was wondering why the trapdoor was there
arctic fern
so im cinfused why its a "new feature"
slim thorn
"add crawling" implies there's an actual crawl button now like a normal game would have which just works anywhere
gaunt marten
Oh
slim thorn
yes there's a video there
little badger
https://youtu.be/S2on_R32dRI?si=x4WISeFtQR-2h87I modern warfare 3 zombies trailer @real panther @wise frigate
gaunt marten
Well it looks you have a crawling animation
arctic fern
Well it looks you have a crawling animation
all of the features in the vid have been there for a while
gaunt marten
Wait there's another video too
fresh bane
Isn't that animation just the swimming animation?
arctic fern
Wait there's another video too
i didnt know twitter could HAVE two videos
the second one is a new feature, very limited in scope
congrats you can crouch and be half a block shorter
thats... i mean i guess its useful? kinda?
makes crouching slightly more useful
white phoenix
this is for bedrock
These two features have already been in the main java edition for a while now
dire gate
Twitter can have 4 videos iirc
arctic fern
oh then who cares
river veldt
this is for bedrock
OH this is epic then
thorny loom
Lmao they did it
river veldt
oh then who cares
me :)
thorny loom
white phoenix
well there goes unity's chances are getting that genshin bag
thorny loom
Yep
mossy flume
The unfortunate thing about making your own engine is that it is very hard
slim thorn
hoyoverse can afford to do it, but it is a huge investment, and never would've been worth it had unity not done this
and I doubt they can get it into a shippable state before 2024 anyway
you can only throw so many coders at a task that immense
mossy flume
Yeah it’ll take years
Nintendo may not be so keen on making quick remakes/remasters as well if they can’t use Unity to build them
mossy flume
Well, the thing is that Epic Games could pull the same sort of stunt at some point down the line as well. In either case you're making a bet.
Unreal Engine 5 is increasingly used across multiple industries.
It's an essential tool in filmmaking now.
Epic could upgrade their monetization scheme down the line.
slim thorn
mmm... it is difficult to judge the risk of any engine now
mossy flume
Yep
slim thorn
like, this would be a hilariously stupid thing for any engine developing company to do
but Unity just did it, so you can't merely ignore the possibility for its absurdity
mossy flume
^
slim thorn
I guess it helps that Epic seems to have other stuff going on
Unity wasn't making their own games, right? they were an engine-only company?
mossy flume
Not that I know of
I think they're just working on their engine and some demos of their engine
teal cliff
I feel like Epic just saw the disasterous results of doing something this dumb
grave tide
And soon we will see 80$ for a game, because developing is going to cost more because engines 
teal cliff
and is unlikely to play copy cat
mossy flume
I doubt it'll affect the prices of games aside from free to play games.
thorny loom
^
slim thorn
yeah, this is a temporary shock to the industry
thorny loom
Also for nintendo. Yeah Nintendo wont care once the Switch 2 comes out those games using unity’s will probably not even be backwards compatible
slim thorn
the stable equilibrium is still for most games to get developed on engines that someone else maintains because so many games need the same stuff from their engines and developing a good engine from scratch is ludicrously hard
rose rose
https://x.com/ninjasynfrey/status/1703929446577905831?s=46&t=bVzXPIZvXYyJJoEkCfg...
It is worth noting that, as usual, the tweet is misleading at best.
mossy flume
The cost is ultimately quite small. The issue is that it's an unbounded/unpredictable cost and the sudden and retroactive change to the TOS is the real issue. The principle of it coming out of nowhere and being applied retroactively is why it's causing so much anger.
rose rose
These positions are all things like "optimise Unity performance"
grave tide
Unless everyone starts making their own engines
Unity decided to change monetization, nothing stops publishers to make 80$
thorny loom
For current games yes
slim thorn
people not buying the games at that price point is what will stop them
rose rose
They aren't new and they aren't a sudden decision to go make their own engine.
slim thorn
publishers will always be thinking about what price points how many people are willing to buy at, that's exactly the sort of thing they should be focusing on
mossy flume
Unity decided to change monetization, nothing stops publishers to make 80$
Reminder that games used to cost this much (and more) back when they were sold on clunky cartridges.
thorny loom
The reason it took so long for $70 to become triple a standard was because of consumer pushback itself
grave tide
people not buying the games at that price point is what will stop them
People still are making preorders to Todd Howard games, do you really think that these people won't pay even 200$?
slim thorn
The reason it took so long for $70 to become triple a standard was because of co...
mm-hmm, but instead the higher cost of development appeared in DLC and microtransactions
quiet swift
I imagine if it ever gets to 100$ for basic, non "deluxe" or whatever editions, there'll be riots. Probably before that but I feel triple digits is completely off the table
slim thorn
we're not talking about whales, we're talking about the broader market of everyone who buys games
thorny loom
Yeah. People flipped shit when “allegedly” gta 6 will have a $150 price tag
quiet swift
mossy flume
LAWL people claimed that? And people believed it?
thorny loom
But theres nothing confirming such a price tag
quiet swift
People believe anything
thorny loom
Now i can see maybe a collectors edition being that
arctic fern
i can belive a special edition costing that
mossy flume
GTA6 is so far away from release that Rockstar themselves aren't thinking of prices.
thorny loom
But standard edition? Hell no
grave tide
Last riot which was bound to the game and which worked was War Thunder protest
mossy flume
I'd be surprised if rockstar even has a special edition of any kind worked out yet
slim thorn
People believe _anything_
pretty much, this happens so often that it's genuinely important to avoid overly gullible people/communities/sources and to not spread what they've said, or we end up contributing to the misinformation ourselves
thorny loom
Most recent one i can think of was warhammer 3 being review bombed down to mixed on steam due to dlc pricing
river veldt
i wonder if GTA VI will be good
mossy flume
Packaging is usually worked out in the last year of development before release
river veldt
is it fair to say it's a very hyped up game
grave tide
Most people didn't care about J.K. Rowling being transphobic and bought Hogwarts Legacy
Overwatch 2 being worst game in the Steam didn't work
slim thorn
I'm sure it will be, but it depends on precisely what we mean by "hype" here
thorny loom
For context. They Released a dlc that normally would have been $15 in Warhammer 2 and made it $25 for less content
river veldt
I'm sure it will be, but it depends on precisely what we mean by "hype" here
people are excited ?
slim thorn
since it's in the distant future and no marketing's started yet, probably the only people even thinking about it often are existing fans of the series
thorny loom
Overwatch 2 being worst game in the Steam didn't work
By the time ow2 came to steam it was already a year or two old
slim thorn
there's no point in the devs/publisher drumming up any more hype for it this early
river veldt
right
thorny loom
And the fact it was even put on steam is blizzard essentially admitting to defeat for its own launcher
slim thorn
Most people didn't care about J.K. Rowling being transphobic and bought Hogwarts...
it's probably more accurate to say most people didn't even know
mossy flume
Or just reaching out to a broader audience.
slim thorn
we hang out in communities that are hyper-aware of these issues
mossy flume
it's probably more accurate to say most people didn't even know
Bingo.
river veldt
i remembrr there being a lot of hype for FNAF 3 but that mught have just been the bubble i was in in 2015
thorny loom
i remembrr there being a lot of hype for FNAF 3 but that mught have just been th...
No you were right
Fnaf 3 was the last one people all around were excited for
fnaf 4 was when a lot of people started criticizing the series
river veldt
but FNAF 4 is the best one.....
mossy flume
Further, transgenderism is a rather alien concept to most people, so most people simply won't have an opinion on the matter.
Other than just "hating people sucks, don't do that" in most cases.
grave tide
I have to remember that AC Origins/Odissey/Valhalla were commercial success, but these games are grind trash which deserves to be burned
I don't have any faith in people anymore
thorny loom
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
slim thorn
it's always important to remember that a devoted fanbase, critical success and commercial success are three very different things that rarely all go together or cause each other
part of making successful entertainment is to set achievable expectations, e.g. many indie games target existing genre fanbases and then do fairly well within them, without trying to sell billions of copies
Hollow Knight sold apparently around 3 million copies in two years, Resident Evil 4 Remake sold 5 million in four months
thorny loom
starting playing REmake 4 btw
Really good. Would recommend especially now separate ways is coming out
slim thorn
yeah, part of the reason I picked these two games is that I'm familiar with both of them being basically universally liked by their target audiences
hm, Blasphemous sold 1 million in about two years, that's closer to HK than I was expecting
(which just reinforces how much "the gamer discourse" is a poor indicator of sales)
mossy flume
Was there discourse over Blasphemous?
I barely heard anything about it. I actually didn't know it was two years old.
river veldt
the gamer discourse
slim thorn
exactly my point
thorny loom
I never even heard of it
mossy flume
I only learned of it a few months ago
slim thorn
it was on my list of "metroidvanias I should try" for quite a while before I got around to it, and then it was on my short list of "all-time favorite metroidvanias", but since I never heard anyone else bring it up I usually make a point of mentioning it myself
although now that Nire and Flitter have suddenly both played it I probably won't "need" to do that as much
thorny loom
mossy flume
Hidden watermarks and identifiers in prerelease materials is very commonplace in the tech industry
thorny loom
Yeah. Hence why i think it was more likely the court/ftc that leaked this stuff on accident
mossy flume
My favorite Microsoft watermark was the one where the radiating rings in the Xbox 360 firmware were actually a code which was showing the serial number of the Xbox unit
So good
The release version did this too, but it omitted other identifying information. Just the serial number encoded in the frequency of ring pulses.
wind stump
Man checking the achievements for Brutal Legend and
People really didn't play this game, huh 
thorny loom
Man checking the achievements for Brutal Legend and
People really didn't play th...
It wasnt a big hit. But that’s mostly cause it came out like 2 weeks before mw2 2009
The pc port came out like 5 years later
wind stump
yeah but this is out of people who own the game too
then again I only got these today so I'm not helping that
thorny loom
Lol
You also have to remember steam achievement hunting isnt as big as it is on xbox or psn
slim thorn
I don't think those are the kind of achievements you "hunt"
thorny loom
Yeah those are just progession
wind stump
Literally just playing the game, lmao
thorny loom
Most games have those
mossy flume
Fun fact, Microsoft has rules about how you define achievements in games. Their rules became the de-facto standard for the whole industry.
thorny loom
Interesting
mossy flume
I believe they actually banned achievements that unlock when you launch the game. But Valve didn’t.
thorny loom
One of the few games i 100% achievemented was the Me legendary edition
thorny loom
I believe they actually banned achievements that unlock when you launch the game...
Yeah a few early games had those. Mostly the simpsons movie game
mossy flume
Yep. They originally didn’t have that rule but quickly added it in.
thorny loom
Also fun fact. The simpsons movie game had a dead space easter egg before dead space was ever announced
mossy flume
They also have rules about how many points each one can be worth and things like that
river veldt
did you guys ever play Simpsons Hit & Run
mossy flume
And how many achievements you should have
thorny loom
Yes
river veldt
that game is hard
thorny loom
Probably one of the best licensed games out there
I did find out that the game will let you skip a mission if you fail at it enough times
Someone actually went out of their way to remake the cutscenes in the style of the show too
river veldt
thorny loom
slim thorn
I played Hit and Run to completion, probably wasn't "100%"
river veldt
gaunt marten
That's the third of the three penance NG+ challenges
This one's the easiest of the three, apparently
But also very enjoyable
Next I think I'll go for the four bonus NG+ bosses
gaunt marten
but for what? <:ajwhomstdve:585598522510803134>
Remember the guy in the tree who asked you to get burning liquid?
fresh bane
nnnope
fresh bane
hidden area?
fresh bane
It was behind a hidden wall, I've goten into the habit of just hitting every wall
Oh yeah that guy is fucking toast
he's super dead
gaunt marten
If you handed him the item anyway, he should drop a flower on his feet
Take the flower and hand it to one of the two ladies
Forgot which
fresh bane
Oh, I didn't even see that there was a flower there
gaunt marten
<:sunnypog:1108781821371621487> hidden area?
If you succeed in this quest he leaves the tree to come to this grave
gaunt marten
Great spell
I think success just gets you an achievement
It's the same for the quest where you have to bring random items to the clinic
If you fail to get it in time but still deliver them all you get the reward but no achievement
fresh bane
Oh shit I do have some stuff to give the guy in Albero, I always make sure to tp there and give him anything I encounter
I should probably take another look at the map for any places I haven't visited yet since I'm coming across a lot of ''''hidden'''' areas I'm supposed to get to pretty much at this moment since I'm basically at the end of the game
map is already on 90% completion
I knew that I'd somehow find a way up here eventually
aaaaaahhh there's a little undiscovered square!!!
gaunt marten
You'll need to go there a THIRD time
(Quit to main menu and reload to return to the save point faster)
fresh bane
I just use the homeward bone prayer
gaunt marten
That's slower if you need to dispose of enemies with other prayers first
fresh bane
Nah that area has no enemies at all
I also don't think that the homeward bone prayer resets enemies until you kneel down on the bonfire
gaunt marten
Yes, it's just slow to switch to the prayer in the first place compared to just quitting
fresh bane
Alright then, now... 
looking at me map there's some marked cherubs I marked earlier and I remember this one item I couldn't get to that was blocked behind a gate, gonna check these out before I go any further, the last Miriam challenge should be somewhere around the church rooftop area since I already got 4 of them
Oh I already have it loaded
I only switch to other combat prayers whenever I need them, mostly just boss fights
gaunt marten
I always have combat prayers because they make it a lot easier to navigate areas
fresh bane
I dunno if any of them actually hits it, maybe the lightning one
Oh fair enough
alright then
gaunt marten
The hamlet one is the first prayer you get in the game
It's the one to the left
The lightning one should work
fresh bane
This one's still locked 
the lightning one worked, I don't know if the shockwave one would've worked since it doesn't get super close to the wall but maybe it would've
gaunt marten
Do you want me to tell you how to unlock this door?
fresh bane
I mean I wouldn't wanna get all the way back here again so sure
gaunt marten
Hold B in the blood
fresh bane
what's that in keyboard
gaunt marten
It's the thing that sends a blood projectile
fresh bane
I knew it had something to do with blood but I didn't know I had that ability at all
gotcha
just because I'm near the end of the game and going through the entire map I may just look up what to do about those red candles I came across
Tried interacting with all of them but nothing happened
fresh bane
Uhhhh no, I don't know what that is at all
There's red candles in some areas that I could interact with but nothing happened
gaunt marten
Can you take a screenshot?
fresh bane
well there you are
apparently you have to get the small beads of wax first before you can get the others, since the blue ones weren't hidden at all I could get all of them no problem but this first one was hidden behind a secret wall 
so I couldn't get the other ones until I got this one first
fun
gaunt marten
Correct
fresh bane
I hope that this doesn't make me go into some sort of un-leavable end area or something, I'm afraid of going a bit further into this area because I don't want to accidentally finish the game
gaunt marten
Once the elevator reaches the highest floor, going right from there starts the endgame
Even when you finish the game you can simply load a save to come back and explore
fresh bane
Mmmmm I'll be careful then
noice
final Miriam challenge
time to experience unexplainable rage at this game's platforming
fresh bane
man it's wild how these are single handedly destroying my joy for this game
I am not having fun with these at all
slim thorn
I knew that I'd somehow find a way up here eventually
and now you recognize the huge statue in the background, right?
gaunt marten
Shhh, not until ending C
slim thorn
I thought I wouldn't get anything since I ''failed'' this quest
the main consequence of "failing" the quest, besides the achivement, is that it becomes impossible to get down there and get the prayer without the Linen relic
but once you have all the relics it's a non-issue
fresh bane
I completely forgot about that guy until now where I have a bunch of things and I did get to the grave before I even went back to talk to him so yeah
sorry tree guy
fresh bane
and now you recognize the huge statue in the background, right?
I didn't pay that much attention to it before but I did recognize him from my sword
fresh bane
You may also cheat if you like
how do you even cheat these?
the reward for these better be a fucking lightsaber or something seriously
slim thorn
iirc it's ||just another prayer||
gaunt marten
If you're on PC mods can allow access to the debug console, which can turn you invulnerable
slim thorn
the really annoying thing is those challenges would be fine if they simply weren't timed
gaunt marten
The debug mode mod also has a noclip functionality
fresh bane
eh I don't think I'm gonna do that
gaunt marten
That's fine too
fresh bane
I just wish these either weren't timed at all or they were designed around speed and movement rather than incredibly difficult hazards plus quickness
it's just a mess 
the stairs don't work properly and that's frustrating as hell too
gaunt marten
If you turn on invulnerability then fall into spikes the puzzle will reset but the timer will not start
slim thorn
lol
gaunt marten
The timer only starts if you pass through the entrance
fresh bane
I'm playing Blasphemous not fucking Touhou
at least Touhou doesn't have a ticking clock
slim thorn
when I did the Miriam challenges in the randomizer I used the Tiento spell in a few fireball-heavy areas
though I still only completed 4/5 of them
gaunt marten
Spikes are the worst part of the game
slim thorn
Ixrec — 09/02/2023 9:25 AM
I died so many times to these particular spikes and ladders on my first playthrough
but now I made it first try and found my own hookshot
slim thorn
the sequel is nicer about spike usage, or at least introduces them significantly later in the game by which it felt more reasonable to have some instakills in the area
gaunt marten
Other ladders aren't so problematic
slim thorn
I think I mess up other ladders as often and these are just the only ones where it kills you
but the trick is realizing you only grab a ladder if you're pressing up or down
fresh bane
Oh my fucking god what is this stupid combo of glass breakable floors + floor full of spikes + swinging blades that PUSH YOU BACK
slim thorn
and this is one of the reasons I usually use my d-pad over my analog stick when playing Blasphemous
fresh bane
jesus christ
gaunt marten
Yeah I kept doing that but it didn't register
slim thorn
oh for me it was consistent once I started consciously doing that
gaunt marten
I do stick to the analog stick though
slim thorn
fast dashing (for Nire: hold both down and left/right when dashing to trick the game into not applying a cooldown) was the other reason I mostly used d-pad
gaunt marten
Fast dashing only works if you have the rosary bead that reduces dash cooldown
(that was why I couldn't figure it out)
slim thorn
oooh
fresh bane
H O W
slim thorn
I thought it still reduced cooldown but now I remember the guy saying you do need the bead for it to go to zero
gaunt marten
The one that increases dash length changes the timing but doesn't make things easier
fresh bane
slim thorn
hahahaha
yeah just don't do these
you've done enough
I still never finished this
go do more of the fun stuff
fresh bane
I'm not leaving until I get this, I can't just leave this unfinished especially when this is the last one
the fun stuff is also the end of the game at this point so this is the last thing I gotta do anywhere else on the map
slim thorn
...good luck then
fresh bane
After this I'm gonna go do the actually fun minigame/challenge in the arcade
slim thorn
now that I still need to do
fresh bane
Only bad/frustrating part about that is how expensive it is to play it
slim thorn
I'll probably do it next archipelago
(this time around I didn't get there until a somewhat inconvenient time when finishing the main game took priority)
fresh bane
The arcade is actually a ''oh this is very hard but this is so fun'' situation
whereas this is more of a ''wow I want to rip out my eyes I hate it'' type situation
slim thorn
which would be appropriate in this world
fresh bane
Most of the difficulty is just because you only have 3 HP and it can be a bit tough to figure out the hurtboxes especially with the very low bit artstyle
gaunt marten
In NG+ you get way more money so the arcade game is pretty free
I finish the game with 70k excess tears each run
little badger
https://twitter.com/xboxp3/status/1704233222752571842? @graceful bridge @mossy flume
Twitter
slim thorn
sadly there's no reward item for playing it, so in rando there's no chance of something important being shuffled there
graceful bridge
https://twitter.com/xboxp3/status/1704233222752571842? <@129646994053398528> <@9...
I'm guessing this is the stuff from the FTC lawsuit.
little badger
I'm guessing this is the stuff from the FTC lawsuit.
Yeah
But it was actually Microsoft that leaked it
mossy flume
https://twitter.com/xboxp3/status/1704233222752571842? <@129646994053398528> <@9...
Yep. Leaks are always extremely frustrating for the people working on these things because the leaks are almost always unfinished works or otherwise represent ideas that weren't followed up on. Or the thing is not yet ready to be shown off, which means what gets seen is a misrepresentation of the project.
little badger
Yep. Leaks are always extremely frustrating for the people working on these thin...
It came from their 38TB azure storage.
little badger
Everyone is saying it’s the biggest leak in gaming history.
mossy flume
I don't know what that leak entails, but if it's predominantly Xbox stuff, then yeah, it would indeed be the biggest singular leak ever, even bigger than the Nintendo gigaleak.
little badger
Yeah it’s future consoles and games that are coming. And emails too
slim thorn
"adorably"?
mossy flume
The FTC deleted the relevant documents on their side
little badger
Ah yeah that one. But there were emails saying that our hardware is better than Sonys.
slim thorn
well that's gonna stick in our minds for a while
rugged flax
That 38TB thing from Azure was from their AI research division.
I don't see how that has anything to do with Xbox.
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-leaks-38tb-of-private-data-via-unsecured-azure-storage/
little badger
mossy flume
That 38TB thing from Azure was from their AI research division.
I don't see how ...
Ahhh, yeah that makes more sense
Still, yikes
Leaking that much AI related data is not great
little badger
Leaking that much AI related data is not great
Some of the files were uploaded to the government court site.
river veldt
only thing i was interested from the leak was "Doom Year Zero"
mossy flume
The exposed data included backups of personal information belonging to Microsoft employees, including passwords for Microsoft services, secret keys, and an archive of over 30,000 internal Microsoft Teams messages originating from 359 Microsoft employees.
Damn
river veldt
only thing i was interested from the leak was "Doom Year Zero"
the title alone is intriguing
river veldt
i am aware
rugged flax
If it was on a government court site, then it's related to the Microsoft v FTC case and came from that.
river veldt
it still perked up my ears though and got my mind running lol
slim thorn
two different Microsoft-related leaks being discussed at the same time got confusing
river veldt
oh i didn't even know there was another one
rugged flax
Misconfigured cloud storage causing another security incident.
IT folk take a drink. 
mossy flume
river veldt
it still perked up my ears though and got my mind running lol
"Year Zero" reminds me of like, "Batman Year One" or the NIN album "Year Zero"
visual hill
https://twitter.com/Terraria_Logic/status/1704227519027651016
this letter brings good news
river veldt
Re-Logic is cool
slim thorn
also I hadn't heard of FNA before
FNA is a reimplementation of the Microsoft XNA Game Studio 4.0 Refresh libraries.
ah that makes a lot of sense
mossy flume
> FNA is a reimplementation of the Microsoft XNA Game Studio 4.0 Refresh librari...
Ohhhhhhhh interesting
river veldt
Full Netal Alchemist
mossy flume
I thought that logo looked familiar somehow even though I had never heard of FNA. It's the XNA logo with the X replaced.
little badger
I thought that logo looked familiar somehow even though I had never heard of FNA...
I wonder if unity will scrap it in the end
fresh bane
Man I can't believe this fucking challenge actually made me agitated enough to need to take a break for a second holy shit 
visual hill
Terraria is made with XNA
(pretty sure they used FNA at least partially for ports. Praise Ethan Lee and all that :P)
fresh bane
https://twitter.com/Terraria_Logic/status/1704227519027651016
this letter brings...
Supporting the engines is a baller move
slim thorn
uh... please don't hurt yourself?
fresh bane
A lot of people want other engines to be as big or used as much but the monetary help definitely gives them that push that helps a lot
fresh bane
uh... please don't hurt yourself?
I can't 
wind stump
Man, Re-Logic do NOT fuck around
slim thorn
I wonder if unity will scrap it in the end
nah, there's been clear evidence from day one that the Unity execs knew exactly how badly this would be received, and even if they tried to walk everything back now, nothing can simply bring back all the lost trust of ever considering this in the first place
fresh bane
This should be used as a torture method it actually made me physically agitated how much this is pissing me off
river veldt
are we ever going to get the uh
gaunt marten
I'd encourage you to continue if you got a cool cutscene or a fun reward but the crossover actual just sucks
wind stump
"Yeah we don't use the engine, but fuck these guys, we're gonna give $200k away because we can."
river veldt
the Terraria sequel thing
mossy flume
My thing about open source engines is that while they're an excellent idea that I'd like to see flourish, they'll never be as powerful or well-optimized as the commercial engines like Unity or Unreal. 
river veldt
Otherworld
little badger
nah, there's been clear evidence from day one that the Unity execs knew exactly ...
Yeah.
A lot of devs will stop using unity.
And go to others
slim thorn
My thing about open source engines is that while they're an excellent idea that ...
I'm not sure this is necessarily true in the long run though
remember that in the span of, what, 40 years? we've already gone from the idea of a "game engine" being ludicrous, to engines being something devs had to always write themselves, to commercial 3rd-party engines being usable for non-bleeding-edge games, to the current state where commercial engines are usable for bleeding-edge games and FOSS engines are usable for many other games
we certainly won't see any flagship photorealistic graphics AAA games made with Godot in the near future, but I think a FOSS engine competing with Unreal could happen eventually with the right community and support
fresh bane
I think open source engines usually don't get enough support or usage to really get to the level where they'd stand next to unity or unreal and maybe if they did they could get there but I Have no clue about how game engines work so what do I know 
mossy flume
Don't Unity and Epic have patents on things like Nanite and other such bleeding edge technologies?
slim thorn
ok I don't know any of the details about that
but I've yet to hear of some cutting edge graphics thing that the competing GPU vendor or game engine didn't simply make its own version of with another brand name
gaunt marten
Yeah, making your own version through a different method often works
slim thorn
google tells me Nanite not only lacks a patent but is not sufficiently original to even be eligible for a meaningful patent anyway
gaunt marten
But needs resources, which is what supporting FOSS engines does
slim thorn
which I believe is pretty typical for graphics stuff
patents are extremely specific, by design
slim thorn
at least, not anything at the level that would make it difficult to another engine to implement themselves
minor plover
Yep. Leaks are always extremely frustrating for the people working on these thin...
a surprising amount of stuff is like ... a particular manager or subunit of the company did an exploratory project of some sort. Draft versions that get shot down once they reach the next level of management because they're not a good plan. And then years later someone ends up dissing people for a draft of an idea that they didn't like writing in the first place, without understanding where it came from.
slim thorn
mm-hmm, sometimes you even get asked to draft up plans for an idea that nobody thinks is good, because the decision is so impactful that it's worth running the numbers on every option no matter how unlikely
minor plover
yeah, or it's an idea that manager X thinks is a good idea and manager Y is like "can you draft this up so I can throw it in X's face once we have real numbers?"
fresh bane
[insert crying speedruner reaction]
I think this legitimately chipped off years from my lifespan
visual hill
Don't Unity and Epic have patents on things like Nanite and other such bleeding ...
not that I know of
slim thorn
we told you not to!
visual hill
(also, software patents aren't enforceable in the EU)
slim thorn
man, the EU is ahead of the curve on everything
mossy flume
not that I know of
Well of course; when you're writing software you do not look at patents
visual hill
you can register a software patent in the EU in case it becomes enforceable, but it isn't enforceable as of writing
slim thorn
lol
mossy flume
(also, software patents aren't enforceable in the EU)
TIL
Good, IMO
Alas, in the US they are enforceable
And they are aggressively enforced.
Which I feel is a massive mistake
visual hill
the MPEG LA is slowly learning with H.266 versus AV1. So far, AV1 is winning (finally!)
fresh bane
we told you not to! <:flutterwaaaugh:685079096518377473>
I know but I never like leaving stuff undone in games... I had to even though I hated it, let's hope the reward was worth it
slim thorn
it's not, don't give yourself false hope now
mossy flume
(In general I think patents are a massive mistake)
slim thorn
it's been too long since I properly read up on patents to argue about their general value
but afaik nobody thinks they make any sense for software
mossy flume
I think the reasonable compromise would be to make their lifespan shorter.
slim thorn
there's just some people making money off holding a certain patent, but that's about it
visual hill
I remember Notch's article on software patents. :^)
mossy flume
Oh god, he wrote an opinion piece on that?
slim thorn
Hatsune Miku wrote about patents?
gaunt marten
Ten years seems like a reasonable time for patents, when compared to copyrights, but when you consider the majority of money a product makes is done within the first few years ten years seems a bit long
mossy flume
I'd be hesitant to read anything he has to say
Ten years is too long IMO
3-5 years at best
visual hill
Oh god, he wrote an opinion piece on that?
I remember it ending with "If you own a software patent, you should feel bad."
I would have preferred "If you own a software patent, I challenge you to a Quake 3 duel"
gaunt marten
I think Notch was just complaining because he was attacked by a patent troll
mossy flume
Or if they want to make them last longer, just make licensing more of a thing and less restrictive.
visual hill
yeah, that was the issue
mossy flume
Also IMO if you're not actively using a patent, it expires quickly
Kill patent trolls
visual hill
software patents are usually 20 years but can be made longer via extensions
gaunt marten
Yes. I definitely think that in order for patents to be valid you must license their use or use them yourself.
visual hill
H.264 is only patent-free (all relevant patents expired) in late 2029. Without extensions, it would be patent-free as of writing
mossy flume
There should be a reasonable grace period or otherwise the ability to prove to a regulatory body that you're actively doing a thing that you demonstrably intend to actually use and release to the open market. But if not, you lose it.
visual hill
Yes. I definitely think that in order for patents to be valid you must license t...
in French law, at some point, you are required to license it to anyone who's requesting a license if you don't use it yourself
mossy flume
in French law, at some point, you are required to license it to anyone who's req...
My take is that you should be required to license it basically immediately if requested in good faith.
slim thorn
the theory of copyright/patents encouraging investment in R&D made some sense in a context where simply creating the product was one of the hardest parts of running a successful business, but with modern software, the source code (if it's even "the") is almost worthless on its own without a team of programmers actively maintaining and supporting and documenting it, and half the point of software is that its behavior can be and is frequently changed, not set in stone as patents tend to assume
gaunt marten
If the source code didn't have significant value then why not make all code open source by mandate?
slim thorn
the serious answer is there's little benefit to it
at least where I work, a lot of our stuff is open sourced, but open sourcing it is a whole process because we have to make sure it's the sort of thing that could reasonably get contributors outside our firm and it's designed and documented well enough that random strangers could pick it up
and then most of our code just doesn't make any sense outside the content of our servers and our product so open sourcing it would just be extra process for no gain
a video game engine is not that sort of product
gaunt marten
Yes, but what I'm thinking is just make it a requirement that all code for every business is published as is without extra demands for documentation
And make this a requirement of running a business
slim thorn
I don't think that'd really benefit anyone in practice
gaunt marten
It would benefit me because I like looking at how things work
mossy flume
Mood
little badger
Another game that will not have anymore development https://twitter.com/evildeadthegame/status/1704239249761906859?
slim thorn
google says UE4
little badger
Yup UE4
little badger
Did you play the game cap?
mossy flume
I guess they weren't getting the interest they wanted
fresh bane
hah, awesome
little badger
Yeah. The servers might be up for a year or two yet.
slim thorn
hah, awesome
what is that?
river veldt
waow gameboy
fresh bane
what is that?
no clue, secret room in the minigame
gaunt marten
It's a skin
mossy flume
You're a skin
quiet swift
It's one of those four people get hunted by a fifth person playing as a monster type games, no? I forget if there's live service elements to this
gaunt marten
Yeah I'm a skin you to leave
little badger
It's one of those four people get hunted by a fifth person playing as a monster ...
Dead by daylight is still going.
slim thorn
do people still call that "asymmetric multiplayer"?
little badger
They added Nicholas cage just recently.
quiet swift
Dead by daylight is still going.
Right, but I'm saying "one of". I think there's been quite a large number of these lately so people tend to gravitate towards just one or two
little badger
Right, but I'm saying "one of". I think there's been quite a large number of th...
Ah right.
minor plover
there it is <:flutternatureissofascinating:740289935839330435>
the color scheme makes this look like an ultrasound at first glance
thorny loom
Phil responded to the leaks
Twitter
Also. The court came out and said it was MS fault for the leaks (surprisingly) so someones about to be fired
little badger
https://x.com/xboxp3/status/1704233222752571842?s=46&t=bVzXPIZvXYyJJoEkCfgMsQ
I posted that earlier.
slim thorn
river veldt
there it is <:flutternatureissofascinating:740289935839330435>
Gameboy yippee
little badger
thorny loom
Another game that will not have anymore development https://twitter.com/evildead...
checks game history
Was an EGS exclusive
That explains everything
little badger
river veldt
i cant wait for Mina the Hollower to come out
thorny loom
Heh.
gaunt marten
I'm kinda interested but I don't think it'll have the same scale as Shovel Knight
thorny loom
I just looked at the leaked console design and just realized how bad it is
river veldt
probably not but im still very excited
i love Link's Awakening and Castlevania and Gameboy games in general
river veldt
awew
mossy flume
Backed it because I like the idea of a GBC style Zelda clone
river veldt
same
slim thorn
huh, I have never heard of Mina The Hollower or Cyber Shadow
thorny loom
But yeah. It just confirmed probably what we all already figured. That this gen will likely be one of if not the last console to use physical media
river veldt
Soon™️
gaunt marten
thorny loom
Cute
little badger
thorny loom
Yeah. If the next xbox flops. Its better just to focus on PC gaming
And then make money off Sony and Nintendo for ports
green fulcrum
https://twitter.com/nextgenplayer/status/1704254770519941192?
...Wow. Never thought I'd see this in my lifetime.
slim thorn
huh
thorny loom
Well yeah. If xbox leaves gaming they only have windows left
gaunt marten
Microsoft uses the Xbox brand for PC too
little badger
...Wow. Never thought I'd see this in my lifetime.
I love both consoles but Xbox does need more games.
thorny loom
fresh bane
Between that and I think the same guy saying they had 'lost' the war to Playstation when talking about the acquisition and that they will never win and that it's absolutely never going to happen, using language like that, I don't know... I don't know much about how one manages this whole market or anything but it feels like such a bizzare stance for him to have
little badger
I seen that earlier some of the prices are high.
gaunt marten
How much did they estimate each game made them?
thorny loom
The leaked emails probably
fresh bane
At this point it just makes me wonder what does he even want out of Xbox/Microsoft? Why is it even a thing anymore if he just doesn't really care about games or even fully 100% believes that they completely lost and will never catch up to PS or Nintendo ever again
thorny loom
Oh your estimating revenue
fresh bane
Just focus on the games 
slim thorn
it is difficult to get our heads around having to make a decision as big as "should Microsoft exit the console market?"; there's just so much information you'd need to know to even begin making an informed opinion, and of course we only have a tiny fraction of it
fresh bane
It shouldn't be that hard but maybe there's something I don't get
slim thorn
well, remember Microsoft mostly is not a developer
Nintendo is where they are because they've been both game developer and console manufacturer for longer than any of the other players
fresh bane
It's just so bizarre because he doesn't seem to notice people want Xbox to succeed but he doesn't focus on the thing people want out of Xbox which is... games
little badger
Remember when the 360’s kept getting the red ring? Microsoft was going to pull it if it kept happening.
thorny loom
Do mind you their banking on call of duty basically making up all this revenue via the merger
little badger
Which still hasn’t closed
thorny loom
And world of Warcraft
little badger
They have until October or Activision is walking away. With $3 billion.
thorny loom
At this point the uk is the only thing standing in the way
And Microsoft has already floated the idea of making a shell company to just support current releases but forgoing anything further
slim thorn
I am so curious how much time they spent on this demake
slim thorn
is it just me or do those doors look an awful lot like old Mega Man boss room doors
fresh bane
I am so curious how much time they spent on this demake
the funny thing is that the other game connected to this, Bloodstained, also had a demake of sorts because their original kickstarter campaign passed the goal so much that they made a smaller 8bit game before releasing the full main game
Both look really good and I hear they're fantastic but I'm on the fence about trying them out
slim thorn
one of these days I will play Bloodstained
fresh bane
is it just me or do those doors look an awful lot like old Mega Man boss room do...
The style is kind of all over the place Penitent looks more like a gameboy advance sprite and the entire world is a combination of original Megaman with original Castlevania pixel art type stuff
They kind of want to go for a very old school style but it's still very detailed in a lot of places
I don't know if it's still up but a day ago or so I posted a link to the Bloodstained steam page, they were having a 75% sale it was like 5 bucks
fresh bane
I mean I did hear that but I also heard Ritual of the Night is really good also, but I don't know much about Castlevania games
gaunt marten
It's good but
slim thorn
I've played too little Castlevania to comment
gaunt marten
The final boss theme in Curse of the Moon is one of the best songs I have ever heard
fresh bane
Yeah as much as I played Metroid and now this game and I'm drawing a blank on whether or not I played another Metroidvania type game, but Castlevania type games are different and the last Castlevania game I tried to play which people say is one of the best (remake of Castlevania 1 for PSP) kind of... bored me....
gaunt marten
(don't wanna listen to it before you fight the final boss though)
fresh bane
I wanted to try Symphony of the Night or maybe Aria of Sorrow but I never got around to either of them because I didn't want to jump straight into Aria of Sorrow as my first one but I also didn't care to finish all of Castlevania X just for the remaster of Symphony of the Night
I only finished the first Castlevania, ironically enough, since it's the oldest, and I think I played a bit of Super Castlevania 4 but I never got too engaged with it
slim thorn
yeah no there are too many Castlevania games, play a subset lol
that's like trying to play every Mario or every Zelda ever made, it's just too many
fresh bane
Well you got pretty close to that
I totally could play all Zelda games but Castlevania is trickier because I gotta find the one Castlevania I'd like
slim thorn
maaaaybe for Zelda, but still no one's arguing that I should play the Seasonses and Hourglass and whatever
anyway Castlevania has more games than Zelda, and according to the thorough accounts I've seen, its quality varies a lot more than Zelda
gaunt marten
Please play Oracle of Seasons. It's my favorite Zelda
slim thorn
fresh bane
I honestly think you already played the best ones (in my opinion) with the exception of Majora's which you haven't played yet
gaunt marten
It's made by Capcom so it's not like the others
fresh bane
Yeah I haven't even seen what Symphony plays like but if I were to try any Castlevania I'd probably try out Aria of Sorrow
slim thorn
I guess there's also playing every Final Fantasy which nobody does except that one guy whose video I just watched because holy hell are those long games
fresh bane
Seems like the most advanced one 
slim thorn
the conclusion I reached from that insanely through Castlevania retrospective was Rondo of Blood, Symphony of the Night, and Aria of Sorrow are the ones I definitely want to try
gaunt marten
Order of Ecclesia was a lot of fun
slim thorn
that's in my tier 2 of maybes
gaunt marten
You play a cute girl so I'm kinda biased
slim thorn
not least because- yeah that
fresh bane
I thought maybe that the older Castlevanias weren't for me but when I played the PSP remake of Castlevania 1 I just kinda realized that castlevania in general wasn't for me, the gameplay style just didn't fully hook me and I do know that Aria of Sorrow is a bit different so it's the one I'd be interested in taking a look at
I really like when these games have a lot of options like when I play Metroid or now Blasphemous and I do more on top of having just general good design for enemies and areas and puzzles
This arcade minigame I'm enjoying mostly because it's a short little breath of fresh air after almost 100%ing this game
slim thorn
the main reason Rondo is on the list for me is that, according to that one guy on Youtube I trust who played everything, it's the peak of the old pre-SotN Castlevanias (but not many people have played it because it was Japan exclusive forever)
gaunt marten
True
Rondo of Blood was definitely the one I thought "Why are you choosing Rondo of Blood and not Order of Ecclesia?"
slim thorn
well the other reason is
the only Castlevania games I have played before are Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin
that is to say, 2 of the 3 DS Castlevanias
of which Ecclesia is the 3rd
so Ecclesia is naturally the closest to what I've already played
and, well, there's a reason I stopped at 2 originally
gaunt marten
Makes sense
slim thorn
at the moment I give it 50/50 odds that when I feel like playing Rondo+SotN+Aria, I will then be in the mood to throw Ecclesia in after them
it'll certainly appeal more after I've played some different Castlevanias
and probably after all that will be when I consider the Bloodstaineds
gaunt marten
Curse of the Moon is a much shorter experience than a modern Castlevania.
It's about two thirds as long as Blasphemous
slim thorn
fresh bane
I do remember reading Rondo of Blood was one of the first recommended for new players back when I was looking into playing Castlevania
Whenever I feel like it I'm probably gonna try to take a quick look at whichever game I wanna go for before jumping in just because this is a franchise I'm actively choosing to try out rather than just being interested and wanting to play any game so I wanna find the right one for me
I expect Curse of the Moon to be short seeing as it wasn't planned to even exist 
But that's Bloodstained not Castlevania
slim thorn
although there is a Curse of the Moon 2 apparently
(also the first time you said it I thought of Circle of the Moon since that's also a thing)
gaunt marten
It doesn't have a killer final boss song
slim thorn
I do remember reading Rondo of Blood was one of the first recommended for new pl...
does 7 hours count as "a quick look"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peVgerhXJlU
fresh bane
Depends on how long the section for the games I wanna try out are
Curse of the Moon is... very retro
They actually got the whole NES style wayyy better than this minigame in Blasphemous that looks a bit more GBA-like
it looks very genuine :sunsetclap:
aaaaaaweesomeeeeeee
slim thorn
I heard the LttP chest opening noise
gaunt marten
Nice work
fresh bane
I was thinking of the ALBW victory pose
slim thorn
and now you only have the final boss left, right?
true, I was just doing LttP rando a few hours ago
fresh bane
I think so, I would honestly replay this minigame just because it's so fun to master but I'm out of quarters
gaunt marten
The bone lady
slim thorn
oh he hasn't done Isidora yet
fresh bane
Oh god, that's right, the bones guy opened the door and a lady attacked me and wouldn't let me pause or get out
I don't know if I can do that, I thought I'd get way stronger but I got it like last session
slim thorn
if you beat everything up to this point you can do Isidora
I can do Isidora, and enjoy doing it, but I can't do 5th Miriam
gaunt marten
I can tell you that you're missing at least one upgrade for your bile flasks, and one fervor upgrade
slim thorn
but that's still plenty for all the endgame content
gaunt marten
At this point you should have all upgrades from bile flasks, fervor, HP, and rosary knots
I recommend you get the Debla of Lights spell for Isidora
slim thorn
(I assume you've either looked up how to get the endings or want to see which one happens naturally before looking it up, and there'd be no point in one of us copy-pasting that here)
fresh bane
why is this guy absolutely buried in sand?
slim thorn
he is one with the bones now
gaunt marten
Yeah if you find all bones he dies
slim thorn
it's his happy place
fresh bane
I know I'm definitely missing some upgrades especially fervor but I didn't want to get too far ahead in the final area because I don't want to activate endgame
gaunt marten
I told you exactly where to go if you want to avoid the endgame
slim thorn
to be clear, endgame is basically taking the rooftop elevator up to its top level, the one only accessible when all three masks are on it
fresh bane
Yeah if you find all bones he dies
at this point I'm assuming anyone I interact with is going to die at one point or another because of me
slim thorn
anything you can get to without that is safe