They removed the lootboxes but you can find weapon skins you can trade on the marketplace still for real money
#general gaming
arctic fern
teal cliff
I wonder if Payday 3 will have the cheating problem 2 had
arctic fern
And the beta fir payday 3 had a strange second coin system where you spend in game cash to buy a second currency, a limited number of times every 12 hours, and every batch you buy gets more expensive
Which I'm 99.9% sure will be a paid currency
teal cliff
that does sound weird.
gaunt marten
Didn't they release that a while ago?
thorny loom
Maybe so but they recently acquired a retroforum dedicated to archiving old atari games
visual hill
I should try to find scans from PC Jeux (French version of PC Gamer with an entirely separate writing team), it was the shit back in the day
PC Jeux closed in 2012 after its owning company (Mer7) closed shop. It owned many other magazines I read as well
reject Dying Light 2, return to Xpand Rally 😛
rugged flax
fresh bane
https://www.pcgamer.com/atari-acquires-massive-atari-archive-after-revealing-a-n...
Oh wow
A gaming company actually taking steps into preservation of their libraries and embracing the archivist side of their community/consumer base rather than demonizing it and suing it to the ground?
dire gate
I mean
It's not rare for a console company to rerelase a "retro console" for nostalgia sale
And I'm not even sure if Atari rn has all the original Atari data and stuff they had before
So it feels quite reasonable for them to acquire such archive
white phoenix
yeah and it's probably the only thing atari's got going for them right now anyway
dire gate
Like Nintendo doesn't have to give a shit to Nintendo retro archive because they probably still hold most of old Nintendo stuff
It's still cool they are doing that, but it's not really comparable
Atari right now basically exists to sell the past of Atari
wind stump
https://twitter.com/VelocityCatte/status/1701237239102017797
WHY DO PEOPLE STILL DO THIS
astral steeple
white phoenix
at this point it's a meme
gaunt marten
They should buy Warthunder and shut it down
white phoenix
none of the info they shared was confidential anyway
this one was literally one of the top google searches
teal cliff
The US government definitely watches the Warthunder forums at this point
like they have to, those people are a legitimate risk to national security lmao
minor plover
"calling someone names to provoke them into flexing by sharing classified information" is called a Warthunder Attack in the intelligence community
white phoenix
all I gotta do to make the news is to buy one of these manuals from here and post it on the forums lol https://www.flight-manuals-online.com/product-category/fighters-attack/?orderby=popularity
green fulcrum
none of the info they shared was confidential anyway
Actually, the first leak was, because that actually leaked mission-critical documents that could've gotten people killed or captured. The second leak was far less critical which is why there wasn't as much of a stink about it, but it's still frowned upon.
teal cliff
They're still illegal to post on these forums at least
green fulcrum
That's what I mean, yes
teal cliff
so war thunder players keep breaking the law
teal cliff
I think the specific reason is that you can't buy these manuals outside the US so posting them publicly is basically like taking them outside the country?
at least it's something along that line of reasoning
white phoenix
anyone who really wants these manuals would have them anyway despite this restriction
teal cliff
yeah but you can say the same thing about posting pirated games or movies publicly
anyone who wants it could find it but you shouldn't just like... post it where everyone can see it if you don't want to get in trouble
harsh kestrel
Apparently Mariokart Tour is doing it's last few tours. The game isn't gonna shut down, but there won't be any more new tours or content after these last few. Gliders, karts, and character skins from past tours will come back though. Like in a loop. That way, if people didn't get them before, they have another chance. This is also another big indicator that we may be due for a new Mariokart game sooner rather than later, but I don't think it's gonna be until after Nintendo releases their next console, which I think will be sometime late next year
light gate
No its not a new indicator, Nintendo has simply lost interest in making mobile games.
teal cliff
Not surprising
the switch is a handheld console
by releasing phone games they're almost competing with themselves in a way
river veldt
oh i remember this article
teal cliff
I also expect the new mario kart game to be a launch title for whatever hteir new console is
harsh kestrel
We just have to hope that whatever the next console is, it's also mobile. Also, we're honestly kinda overdue for a new Mariokart game for a Nintendo home console anyway. Yeah, I know Mariokart 8 is getting the Course Pass DLC updates, but there's only one more wave to go, and then that's pretty much it. We'll probably be seeing a new Mariokart game within the next year or two at most
fresh bane
https://variety.com/2023/digital/asia/shigeru-miyamoto-new-mario-games-mobile-ap...
Good
light gate
Honestly I'm pretty happy with Mario Kart 8, not sure how they'll top it off.
river veldt
same
light gate
Expecting a new Mario Kart though is setting yourself for dissapointment though, nothing has signaled a new development of a kart game.
river veldt
i don't really want a Nintendo Kart 
so idk what i'd like next
harsh kestrel
There's honestly gotta keep being new Mariokart games. Nintendo knows it's one of their flagship series, and they can't just silently stop making games. They know it's a money maker for their business. They're gonna keep making games for the series for as long as it's successful
fresh bane
I remember playing Mario kart Tour back when it was barely coming out so it was still unfinished and I remember it already had a controversy of sorts at the time because they had faked multiplayer by having you race a bunch of bots with very convincing multiplayer nicknames 
river veldt
i don't think Deviant is saying Mario Kart is going away forever just that they aren't working on one right now
light gate
That would be silly to assume.
river veldt
yeas
light gate
Maybe in the future one will be made, but right now Nintendo has to ship a new powerful console along with other games that have been in current development.
Because my god the Switch is ancient.
In development standards.
river veldt
i do wonder what the launch title for the Switch 2 will be
gaunt marten
The final sword upgrade https://i.imgur.com/75GjdS4.png
river veldt
a new 3d Mario would be pretty neat
light gate
Something tells me its Prime 4, but maybe that's just my hopes and dreams.
river veldt
oooh
river veldt
oh yes
i see wht you mean
or like Twilight Princess was on the Gamecube and Wii
though i don't think those were on the same day
light gate
Correct, the gamecube version launched way later I think.
Although you were better off with the Gamecube version if you hated motion controls lol.
river veldt
in North America Wii version was November 19 and Gamecube was November 11
river veldt
and it came out on the Nvidia Shield TV in 2017
idk what that is lmao
oh it's a Chinese games console
river veldt
white phoenix
the game might have only come out on that console in china, but the console is american
gaunt marten
No achievement for this one https://i.imgur.com/ogXYQDs.png
slim thorn
now that you mention it, I'm not sure the DLC added any achievements 
at least I don't see any in my list
gaunt marten
That's good for paid DLC, because it means people who have the base version can still get them all
slim thorn
good point
gaunt marten
And here's the other eye of the traitor https://i.imgur.com/mQSM66l.png
slim thorn
I am so bad at that fight
slim thorn
I'm still hoping to unlock it in rando so I can try it again
thorny loom
Dead space and re4 remake are on sale on steam
white phoenix
ooh
patient gamers stay winning
there's actually quite a few big games on sale right now
slim thorn
oh right, to be safe: it's worth seeing all three Blasphemous endings, not just jumping straight to ending C if you've got all the unlock requirements
visual hill
I remember playing Mario kart Tour back when it was barely coming out so it was ...
Trackmania does this in its Royal mode too
it has bots (or rather, replays of other real players) that play back in multiplayer
gaunt marten
I plan to go for them in order of hardest to easiest
fresh bane
Trackmania does this in its Royal mode too
I want to say this is a common implementation in these types of racing games but the 'problem' I remember was that people were under the impression they were actually racing other players not just bots or recorded replays
A lot of people found it weird that there was next to no lag or stutters at all, games would load up quickly, and some people even put their phones down and unlocked them back again and the game would continue where it was 
the names were also very convincing, some were even NSFW names and I don't know if they had some weird library for those or if they just picked real names from other users but that also made people think 'oh these are other players' and not just a bot
and well, there was also a whole bunch of pay to win microtransaction stuff that's unfortunately now pretty common and synonymous with any mobile game so there was also that 
fresh bane
slim thorn
tree% achieved
fresh bane
I don't know what that did but I got it
slim thorn
that sums up a lot of this game's sidequests
I can't explain them but they're weirdly compelling
(and usually pretty easy to progress)
fresh bane
Most straightforward '''side quest'''' so far was ''hey I need some plants n shit so if you get any just hit me up''
and the bones thing
Some don't even get expained at all that one with the ovum just kinda happened
I just happened to have the items and put them all down and the npc just kinda appeared with no explanation and I got the yucky ovum and I thought ''maybe this is the offering?'' so I just tp'd and it was 
What's the significance of this? Why am I doing it? Who knows
slim thorn
I think I didn't get all three items until significantly later so I'd forgotten all about the tree by then
fickle garnet
Apparently Forza Motorsport is gonna have a performance mode with ray tracing which will run at 60 fps
gaunt marten
Read the description
You're supposed to ||Take it back to the blessing fountain weirdo in the other world||
fresh bane
I knew it!
I knew it because in the hallway before her room there's a little vine patch and I thought ''yeah I'll for sure get a hook or something at some point''
Man so far a lot of these upgrades have been ''optional'' and not very straightforward to get like I thought they'd be so I should think more about what I have/don't have yet so I don't forget about any of them
quiet swift
fresh bane
man that one was hidden really good
welp
slim thorn
Man so far a lot of these upgrades have been ''optional'' and not very straightf...
indeed, on my original playthrough I had to look up how to get at least one of the relics (I think my specific hangups were the tree step of TGT, and ||one Redento room I never revisited after he moved there||); I suspect whether someone figures it organically depends a lot on what order one bumps into the relevant items and NPCs
(the sequel opted to be more straightforward with the "metroidvania upgrades", which I think I prefer overall but could easily see it argued both ways)
fresh bane
ayy 
thanks abuelo
fresh bane
(the sequel opted to be more straightforward with the "metroidvania upgrades", w...
eeeeh I think it's fine, this is fine too but mostly because the map so far is not that big and I naturally just have this sense of ''alright I got a new key item so let's try this everywhere'' and if I happen to stumble into it then so be it
I never really just get some item or find an interactable thing and say ''ah I'll do it later'' or just keep going forward I pretty much go through every single screen to find what I gotta do next
Pretty similar to Dark Souls really
slim thorn
indeed, some people seem to have better luck with that structure
what you just screenshot for example, I think I had to look up simply because I stopped passing through that room by the time he appeared there
fresh bane
How did you get through the bridge then?
I'm on my way to the big ol door
oh good this guy again
fresh bane
Ah makes sense, I pretty much cleaned every area I visited before this
Well now I gotta go back again because this guy wants to talk to me or something 
based on what he told me I'm gonna assume he wants me to go back to the beginning area
slim thorn
does he still give the cool pre-fight speech before deciding not to fight you? that has some of the best lines
fresh bane
yusss this door was locked before
uuuh that deppends on what that speech is, he did give a speech before Perpetva showed up
oooooh this is the beginning cutscene 
slim thorn
uuuh that deppends on what that speech is, he did give *a* speech before Perpetv...
"No, I know nothing of you, only the miracle knows. Now may your sword full of guilt and mine of gold, collide."
"I curse you forever in name, I bless you forever in death."
that kind of stuff
fresh bane
Mmmmm no I don't think I heard that
Hermana que estáis ahí aunque no pueda veros. Escucha mi ruego.
Tras vuestra marcha, me toca demostrar que soy digno de la confianza de nuestra capitana. No defraudaré a Crisanta.
Y que un gran dolor me muerda si permito que la penitencia cruce esta puerta.
En guardia, Penitente.
thorny loom
Spanish
slim thorn
the proper way to play this game
n-nani? onee-san?
slim thorn
in fact, next time I randomize this I should actually set it to Spanish
since I've just re-heard all the English lines anyway
fresh bane
well it would be a good way to learn about all the different dialects in Spain alone with how many different dialects and accents there are in the game
thorny loom
Las muertas
slim thorn
my vocabulary's probably not good enough yet to get into accents beyond "the one with the -ais form"
I wonder which accent would even be "most correct" for the setting
well I'll probably have a lot of questions when I do that lol
fresh bane
Ehhh I don't know, that's like asking which accent would be the correct one in a medieval english setting, probably a lot especially depending on the area
and this is a fictional setting so it's even harder to say
slim thorn
I guess "whatever accents were used in Europe"?
of course I don't even know what those are
fresh bane
Right but even just ''the english/british accent'' has a lot more than just one
hell even in my really small country we have pretty different accents depending on whether you're from the south or north
if anything it's just good to get a feel for how they sound rather than going super in depth and learning every dialect and accent is what I meant
slim thorn
anything I should know up front like "the big ones are A, B, C and in B they say blah a lot" that'll save time?
fresh bane
Not really no, I'm not a very big expert on Spain's geography and language so I wouldn't be able to tell where each is from but I do recognize them, but nothing that important or anything, biggest noticeable difference will probably be accent mostly although some character use more of a neutral way of speaking and others don't as much which isn't very helpful but it's about as good as I got right now
slim thorn
lol ok
I'm probably only imagining vocabulary differences since I've always been rubbish at the pronunciation part of accents in any language
fresh bane
I don't know how good your spanish is so I can't really gauge it very well but if you know spanish from any other place that isn't spain then it's gonna be pretty weird because the way phrases are formulated is pretty different
slim thorn
not good
but what I got through osmosis and the occasional high school course tended to be LatAm, especially Mexican, since I grew up in California
"if you ever go to Spain you'll have to learn the whole vosotros thing but dw for now"
fresh bane
There's a bit of that going on in the same way accents in the US have different little phrases or things they do or say when talking that differentiates them from each one dont'cha kno pardner
yeah there's a lot of that
so better get used to it 
slim thorn
I probably won't even know what's an accent thing and what's a standard word I don't know
fresh bane
Vos os debéis acostumbrar al voseo si deseáis entender mejor los diálectos, penitente
I wouldn't worry about it too much, I was just saying it because some characters like the merchant lady speak in a very heavy different accent so it's just a fun thing you can keep an ear out for
Kinda like hearing a stereotypical Texan/generic southern accent that stands out if no other character in the game talked like that, I feel like that's a good analogy
slim thorn
yeah
I think "vos os" on two verbs right at the start was what really threw me with parsing that sentence, I guess I never fully internalized that it's SOV not SVO
fresh bane
It's an old form of voseo and some characters do it in the game
Not really used that much anymore, it's an old timey thing usually it's only used nowadays for any religious traditions like reciting prayers or texts or something like that
slim thorn
I like how every language has its own subset of old-timey words that every modern speaker still recognizes
fresh bane
If I had to find a parallel with english I'd say it's the same as the usual catholic prayer our father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name etc etc
slim thorn
yeah, thou/thee/thy and the corresponding verb form are the big one in English
...wait, why is it always a second-person pronoun
one of the old-timey giveaways in Japanese is nanji for "you" instead of the usual omae/kimi/etc
fresh bane
To be fair Japanese has a morbillion ways to refer to yourself as ''I'' too....
slim thorn
it has a ton of pronouns in general, but I can't think of a first- or third-person pronoun that's specifically old-timey
fresh bane
There probably is but I can't think of any either
beast: slain, old man: helped, toe: obtained! 
The way he says ''a vos y a este pecador'' is one way where characters differ in how they speak
slim thorn
(one of the lurkers is probably thinking of "sessha" but in modern period pieces that's even more specifically a samurai/ninja thing )
fresh bane
some other characters could've said ''a tí y a este pecador'' which would be the difference between voseo and tuteo
my country for example still uses voseo similar to the one I mentioned earlier
slim thorn
see my vocab is so bad that I see pecador and think of fish
fresh bane
that would be pescador so I understand the confusion
pecado, pescado, tomato, tomatoe
slim thorn
yeah as soon as I thought it I realized no there's no s there but still
similarly, espera is wait, my first guess was hope 
fresh bane
that one is esperanza so it's a bit more wordy than pescado
Other words for wait is aguarda which may help differentiate them
slim thorn
anyway, I think I get most of that line now that I've looked up the words, but in "a pesar de haber" I'm unsure what the a and de are doing exactly
slim thorn
ooooh
fresh bane
or 'despite' could be another one too
slim thorn
ah if I look it up with the extra bits I now see "a pesar de" = "in spite of"
slim thorn
duh phrasal verbs are a thing in both languages, always try including the extra bits
backing up from the language for a second
slim thorn
beast: slain, old man: helped, toe: obtained! <:pipppipphooray:11087838806280807...
is this your first visit to Patio of the Silent Steps?
fresh bane
Yeah I had just gone through the door in the bridge I'm on the tree now
slim thorn
cool
fresh bane
slim thorn
oh this is one of my favorite bits of NPC dialogue
fresh bane
'Mi Gran Culpa' being your last words is pretty badass
slim thorn
I still remember that
fresh bane
''Pues nudosos son, fueron y serán los caminos del Milagro'' that's like the Praise the Sun of this game
slim thorn
every time I see that guy in the pause menu, the opening room of the game or my sword hilt
slim thorn
sorry I mean the guy who said My Great Guilt / Mi Gran Culpa
fresh bane
I did see some extra menu screen art but I haven't changed it from the default one yet
Ah right, I dunno who he is yet
or maybe I have seen him but I just don't know if it was him
slim thorn
what you just heard is all you ever know about him
but you've seen depictions of him several times before in the places I just listed
slim thorn
''Pues nudosos son, fueron y serán los caminos del Milagro'' <:pipppipphooray:11...
aaah, English uses "twisted" for that
For twisted are the paths of the Miracle
fresh bane
Oooh I see him now on the mea culpa inventory screen
Twisted has a bit of a different connotation even though the word is the same
also library time 
📚
slim thorn
Twi would have so many mixed feelings about this particular one
fresh bane
lol the ghost chilling just reading
I did come across a body that said something about going crazy in the library
slim thorn
oh yeah, I forgot all the corpse dialogue because the randomizer replaces those with item hints
slim thorn
I'm kinda terrible at this area if I'm not paying attention ||mostly because I never figured out you can swat the boomerang books with your sword when jumping and sliding aren't practical||
fresh bane
alright these background ghosts are adorably hilarious
slim thorn
||much like the razor cross throwers in Mountains and Jondo||
fresh bane
I'm kinda terrible at this area if I'm not paying attention ||mostly because I n...
yeah I found that out with the split in half enemies
I hated those
slim thorn
there's one specific one in Jondo that I know I suck at and still get hit by every frickin' time
that room with the elevator in the middle and cross throwers on both sides
fresh bane
the one that got me a lot was the one right at the beginning the one under the gold chest
I always tried to see if I could jump in before it throws the thing at me and I'd always get sent all the way down
slim thorn
beginning of Jondo?
ah yes this chest, I see him now
I think he wasn't a problem for me this time because I'm now used to the strategy of waiting for him to throw, jumping over it, and sliding past him, then taking my free swings from the other side of him
and that works perfectly in this room
though maybe it's easier to just smack it out of the air, I keep not trying that
fresh bane
The ones that were in both sides also gave me trouble
Oh god these beam ghosts too 
not these again
slim thorn
fresh bane
hah
that was such an obvious fake wall
come on guys 
another one! alright maybe I'm not as smart as I thought
slim thorn
tbf this might be the most important fake wall in the game, if I haven't mixed up my rooms
fresh bane
Yeah I can see that, I got a pretty big helth upgrade
slim thorn
||I mixed up my rooms 
||
oh yeah, the Library also has some of the most cryptic optional puzzles in the game (not for relics / movement abilities, fortunately)
curious if you also have better luck with those
fresh bane
I hope I don't miss them because this is pretty big so far
whew
it's over nine thousand
slim thorn
oh finding the puzzle I'm thinking of is the easy part
arctic fern
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1063420/Void_Crew/ so a friend bought me this game
its actually a lot of fun
its a combination of sea of thieves and the railjack missions from warframe, with a dash of guns of icarus thrown in
peak mesa
Looks like Only Up decided to pull a Flappy Bird
slim thorn
no one ever is
slim thorn
||unless Virdiana is still alive, then her standing there is kind of a giveaway||
river veldt
Looks like Only Up decided to pull a Flappy Bird
i love you r avatar
slim thorn
so did you kill it
fresh bane
Unbelievably I died when it was a couple of hits away from death because of my own hubris, I thought I could just whack it to death before it threw another hit but I wasn't that lucky now I'm just 'sploring some more and I was thinking of going back to the guy that enhances my flasks and also get another flask that I got
I could also go buy that key now that I have over 10k bucks
also this guy jumpscared me
slim thorn
all part of your penance for not activating windows
oh this prayer is good
slim thorn
that's the prayer I've been wanting in rando but no one ever found
I knew there was a "just blast the thing in front of me" prayer somewhere I forgot about
fresh bane
I found a couple of other ones too
The homeward bone style one is very useful, I also found one that creates some spheres around me which is very good and another one that creates walls of lightning
and one that seems to strengthen my attacks or something? at least it feels like that's what it does
man it feels good to come back to this area and cash in all the items I found 
I love that feeling, I gave some herbs to the guy in Albero (who also has a super heavy accent for whenever you play it in spanish)
slim thorn
I don't experiment with spells/prayers/active abilities nearly as much as I should in most games
fresh bane
I've been switching a bunch though I don't know the exact damage stats of each and which may be more optimal but I just go with what I feel like I need
slim thorn
it's certainly nice that nearly every place you'd want to go to cash stuff in more than once is all in or around Albero
fresh bane
man these are getting expensive... is it worth it to upgrade this every time since it sacrifices flasks? It does strengthen them so at some point it'll probably be a full heal
slim thorn
rosary knot lady being the big exception, but even she's next to a warp gate
I don't remember exactly how powerful each flask level is so can't help you there
fresh bane
Brotherhood of silent sorrow does have a couple of things nicely stacked together for convenience
Mmmmm i might look this up....
ah screw it I'll upgrade
slim thorn
if only to see wtf happens to this poor guy
fresh bane
Oh he's telling me to please go away because he's tired
I totally just killed him
oh my god
fresh bane
well I gotta go get more souls to ''help'' this guy...
he told me to hurry up so I wonder if I can fuck this up
slim thorn
||nope, there's only one way this ends, unlike some of the other "NPC quests"||
fresh bane
I'm gonna take that as a yes
lol what the hell, I was farming for some souls and killed this guy with the beam and it opened up the floor
how do I keep stumbling onto these hidden paths
Oooooh the icon of the flasks changed!
slim thorn
I think the icon changes slightly with every quicksilver upgrade
I don't remember if I ever found that path originally, in my current rando I had to be told about it by the tracker
(I believe the breakable floor makes a slightly different noise when you run on it but it's maybe a bit too subtle )
fresh bane
Oh I'm definitely not hearing something like that at all so I would never find out
slim thorn
what was even down there?
fresh bane
I think it was an empty flask (which I'm gonna fill up right now)
aaand final azogue
I admit I may have cheated with this one... I looked up how many there were and it told me the location 
oh my god
''Crimson Heart of a Miura''
It's the fucking Beherit
''Thanks for everything, master'' 
green fulcrum
Some mfer better prank that dude by switching the animatronics on, just for a few seconds while he's in the middle of his shift.
white phoenix
that dude is going to have a perpetual lingering sense of "what if..." the whole time he's on shift
green fulcrum
You just know that some mad lad is already thinking of pranking him
fresh bane
''alright, did some combo trials, trained for an hour on my buttons, time to go to casual matches and kick some ass''
loses 11 times in a row to a single Ryu
all part of the grind though 
👍
hushed onyx
You just *know* that some mad lad is already thinking of pranking him
Or the guard is thinking of pranking someone else. Though realistically guards are probably provided by some big company like Securitas and there's a reasonable likelihood that a number of them are not familiar with FNAF and wouldn't really be pranked by imitating the game, except in a general sense.
graceful bridge
wind stump
2.0, we finished the game
dire gate
Cyberpunk 2078
hasty patio
It won't be finished, but it is the last bit of what they can and want to do before dumping the engine and game.
wind stump
BRUH HOW IS THIS NOSTALGIC TO ME ALREADY
so fun fact
yes I did beat P4G, even did the bonus Golden dungeon...
As it turns out I missed the true ending trigger 
So now I'm going to dive back in
Fresh save, it's been 3 years so I feel it's been MORE than long overdue for a redemption replay
gon use a guide and everything, gonna go for MAX STRATS
quiet swift
I did miss out on some stuff on my first playthrough but I did get to the point of getting the UBERPERSONA
wind stump
I can't not-
I've watched the P4 anime an embarassing amount of times, it'd be weird if he wasn't called Yu to me
quiet swift
Yu Beetch
wind stump
Being racist to left-handed people?
True villany.
quiet swift
"Hi, you are WRONG about the info you gave me in my ticket! I've played for 11 years, you need to do better and make more effort to resolve this and not tell me multiple untrue things and close tickets!
Sort this out - I want an apology, a remedy for this situation. AND you can add any other extra item that you can gift/unlock. Like a mount, this pet, those are a good start!"
How about "no" and "fuck you"
wind stump
Racism is exclusive to race
"left-handist" is less off the tongue
ahhhh, the ol' shoppin' district
gaunt marten
"Bigoted" is fine
wind stump
Ah okay,
The attendent is bigoted against left handed people
as they should be
wind stump
wow this is a very 2008 line 
wind stump
i think he's just meant to be ugly so he's more hatable, nothing particularly racially insensitive
slim thorn
yep
wind stump
random VA nonsense, apparently Neptune is in this game 
i heard a voice that was a lot like Neptune's and i look it up and she's in the game
though the character is "whiny student" and probably not Yumi herself
I'll have to confirm later guess i'm doing Drama Club
dire gate
Oh the English VA
I thought "that doesn't sound right..." for like minutes
It seems Melissa is indeed VA of Yumi, yes
wind stump
English VA, yeah
Taking a break to mod the shit out of P4G since I found a big community patch thing that might make the game a bit less taxing to play 
Make sure there is an executable file named P4G.exe in this folder (the yellow square with the protagonist's dreamy face on it).
Yes install instructions, we're all gay for Yu
You'll now be in the Edit Application window for P4G.
Behold the protagonist's BIG ***dreamy ***face.
Okay aside from this being the best written guide I've ever seen for a mod, the dreamy face comments are sending me
teal cliff
my team's running back in Madden's career mode has the easiest job in the world
guy averages like 15 yards a game and he has 10 rushing touchdowns in 6 games. I just get us to the endzone and he carries it over.
dire gate
wintry canopy
Anyone how would you rate my kirin layered armor.
gaunt marten
Apparently, if you go out of bounds in Blasphemous then drop into a pit that is not meant to be accessible, you die regardless of whether you have the relic that allows you to survive falls
fresh bane
man Jamie is a beast but I managed to get some consistent plays and wins in there 
I was gonna do best out of three to get out of that tie but this was going on for a bit too long we've been fighting for an hour
wind stump
oh no am i her sugar daddy now
I'm pretty sure I picked this last time and I'm picking it again
white phoenix
slim thorn
fsteak
rare dew
wow this is a very 2008 line <:SataniaLMAO:321947464020000768>
"OK boomer"
wind stump
fsteak
The guide I'm following says to join the soccer club so no polishing balls references here
white phoenix
best response in the series
wind stump
white phoenix
that minigun model is sick
wind stump
Good god i've been playing for 4 hours
white phoenix
once you start a persona game you can never stop
wind stump
LET'S GOOOOOO
WE GOT A POLISHING BALLS REFERENCE
white phoenix
best social link fr
wind stump
good time to hop off
young creek
Kinda crazy how easy it is to make Todoroki look ten times better by moving his mouth a little and fixing the Voldemort nose and they didnt do that
astral steeple
lol
young creek
Kirishima is 💯
gaunt marten
I'm stuck hunting after the last child of moonlight in blasphemous
gaunt marten
were you OOB on purpose?
Yes.
So I opened the save file and looked inside
I'm missing child #24
Fuck, the wiki is wrong
#24 on the wiki is not #24
fresh bane
Good god i've been playing for 4 hours
Rookie numbers
It starts to get real once you've been playing for so long you don't even know what day it is
little badger
wind stump
Persona has a Persona reference
slim thorn
P4 and P5 have a bunch of 3/4 items to decorate your room with
slim thorn
you've already got a skin equipped lol
gaunt marten
Okay, now she's dead https://i.imgur.com/clXoCIn.png
Also, she gives 20k money each time you beat a phase!
Holy shit you get to fight the pope
slim thorn
yup
slim thorn
maximum blasphemy achieved
teal sonnet
https://youtu.be/vtBqlFH0bGw
happy 20 years of steam
slim thorn
you already looked at my screenshots of the sequel's final boss
fresh bane
and to be fair I've already completely forgotten what it even looks like 
👍
slim thorn
apparently the only way you can top ||murdering the pope|| is by ||murdering a child of the Miracle itself|| 
uneven epoch
i love clickin out of context spoilers for games ill never play n gettin whiplash
slim thorn
that's what they're there for
uneven epoch
"alright that sounds incredibly wacky hope ya have fun"
fresh bane
It's even better when it's spoilers for something you are playing and you click anyway
uneven epoch
i love clickin out of context spoilers for games ill never play n gettin whiplas...
to be clear im entirely serious with zero trace of irony
fresh bane
Like how I spoiled myself on the fact that Tears of the Kingdom || ends with a giant mecha/dragon fight ||
gaunt marten
It's done. Ending C, tera pope, the podcast crew, Edward scissorhands, all gone
wintry canopy
My Purrely deck is almost complete, I'm only missing three cards. Two Effect Veiler and a single Infinite Impermanence.
fresh bane
man this mod + this specific color for Cammy really just accentuates how much she resembles Blue Mary now
also yes I was .5 seconds from a full power roundhouse kick to the skull and my immediate thought was ''screenshot it!! ''
quartz pawn
Blue Cammy
fresh bane
I also installed the glasses mod for Juri asides from the jordans because she looks adorable with glasses :twibounce:
quartz pawn
Just imagine a Cammy Drill into a Straight Slicer and then command into Crab Clutch!
fresh bane
visual hill
https://clan.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/images//39049601/c975bb5bd138598716924b8c2673a4c700c06a5f.png
this has to be the illustration of the decade on Steam's 20th anniversary page
(Barbie reference)
thorny loom
fresh bane
Unity game devs going bankrupt because people keep uninstalling and reinstalling their games: 
hasty patio
StarSector would be dead as well if they used that engine. The modding scene alone would kill it, along with the "free" copy if you know where to look.
fresh bane
I don't think anyone is denying that it's going to screw up devs
and Holocuredev deleted the tweet
the unity assassins got to him 
river veldt
hoping they go back on this
light gate
They've doubled down, and the CEO pulled his shares a few days in advanced.
I think they knew.
Considering their debt and low stock, I think its pretty grim.
fickle garnet
Wait what did they do?
light gate
I hate how many of the games I enjoy are made with Unity.
(Cult of the Lamb, Tunic, Whisker Squadron: Survivor... the list goes on...)
fresh bane
Wait what did they do?
They're going to start implementing fees for every install on an unity game
It's not as simple as that but that's the gist of it
fickle garnet
So you have to pay an extra fee to install the game?
light gate
Well companies like doing dumb things when their profit margin is in the negatives.
I wonder if Unity does go under, would that make Epic increase their prices?
Considering they basically become the dominant engine if such event occurs.
thorny loom
fresh bane
They're also adding ads to free games as an alternative for not paying the fee
thorny loom
Yeah… hoyoverse alone is gonna have some words to say with them
light gate
No they're not lol, Unity has the final say.
Unless someone buys out Unity, this is their current stance.
Liquidation or people actually pay for it.
fresh bane
The way the fee works seems to be that it starts to go into effect once you cross 200k installs, and 200k in revenue over 12 months to be specific about it, so it doesn't work as it may initially sound like it does, but it's still not good
Yeah Hoyoverse can't do anything about this lol
thorny loom
Yeah Hoyoverse can't do anything about this lol
They can strongly disagree with it lol
fresh bane
People are saying that it does but also it doesn't affect games retroactively so I don't know exactly which is true
light gate
They can strongly disagree with it lol
You try remaking an entire game in a different engine.
Even if you disagree, you'll still have to comply.
fresh bane
I don't even think there's any grounds for a lawsuit or anything but I don't really know what their TOS' are so I really can't say
but I do know this will affect a lot of games, especially mobiles ones that use Unity which is a lot and not from small devs, big ones like Nintendo and Konami with Mario and YGO
So either they'll have to pay up, or these games will potentially be taken down
light gate
Even big companies would probably just use their own custom engines, its just not worth it. Indies are the ones truly screwed the moment the threshold is crossed.
thorny loom
Yeah. Nintendo and hoyo will be fine.
Indies are screwed
Lmao. Ea having to confirm sims 5 wont be a mobile style F2p game
fresh bane
Imagine playing any Sims game past 2
fresh bane
Sims 1 gang ftw
static bluff
Hell yeah
light gate
Such a shame Sims 1 is impossible to run on new computers without hellish hacking.
static bluff
Kick those flamingos
true maple
sims 3 gang represent
true maple
https://youtu.be/Bs5QGN-zhwM?si=BJVhimCV8AsXF3ad
best music
fresh bane
no other sims game has been able to capture the genius surreal vibe of sims 1
gaunt marten
I liked every mainline Sims game including 4. They each had a niche they filled well
light gate
welp
static bluff
Lol damn
thorny loom
Yeah. Get ready for a purge of indie games using unity if this isnt dropped
And a surge in unreal engine games
fresh bane
No worries, by the time it'd start being a problem Unity will either roll this back entirely or they'll already have gone down
chilly mural
Please get Freedom planet 2 it was made in Unity
please let Sash Lilac and friends live
chilly mural
my favourite type of post
thorny loom
Yep
chilly mural
no but seriously, please play freedom planet 2
green fulcrum
chilly mural
green fulcrum
We are witnessing a dumpster fire in the making.
rancid herald
I hope the damage control isn't using unity as an engine, otherwise unity is going to have to pay unity everytime someone reads it
green fulcrum
Seriously though, does anyone have a list of games that use Unity?
dire gate
It would be too long
rancid herald
yes
green fulcrum
dire gate
Time for Calinou to shine
rancid herald
I lied
robust latch
don't a lot of the shitty smaller games ported to switch use unity
because it was easy to crossport
thorny loom
They can yes
white phoenix
ksp and cities skylines use unity
thorny loom
Pokemon go uses it
green fulcrum
looks up list
Beat Saber, Hollow Knight, Subnautica, the Ori games, Pillars of Eternity, Rust, Cuphead...Jesus Christ, so many games...
thorny loom
Genshin and honkai do too
thorny loom
The army can afford it
Will just give the unity team one f-15 jet fighter
Or an abrams tank
green fulcrum
Even f*cking Among Us uses it.
Almost every big indie game in the past decade uses it.
hasty patio
rancid herald
Battletech uses it
green fulcrum
Unity, you absolute dumbasses...
rancid herald
thorny loom
Bit outdated but then point still stands
random steppe
I mean, people are tweeting angrily but I am not convinced they will actually spend years redeveloping their game in another engine, spending thousands of dollars, when let's be honest, most of them won't reach the 200k sales to begin with
Also most of indies aren't self published, for example in the case of devolver it's not them charged apparently
Such a weird move tho, it incentives a bunch of dumb behaviour
It would have been much less controversial to just implement a higher revenue split for the top sellers
thorny loom
Honestly
Regardless we’re probably gonna see a major shift away from unity and towards unreal and other game engines
random steppe
Idk, Unreal is a very different engine
Maybe, but I am skeptical
I think we are seeing the usual twitter circlejerk, at the end of the day people will see what cost them less money.
rancid herald
I mean, I don't expect these people to redeveloper their games either. I suspect they'll just pull it
random steppe
Why would they tho?
thorny loom
Cheaper to pull them and redevelop them then keep them up
rancid herald
Because they'd have to pay everytime the game was downloaded? apparently?
thorny loom
Because they'd have to pay everytime the game was downloaded? apparently?
Fiest time installs yes
visual hill
https://ultimatepopculture.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Unity_games uh?
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Engine:Unity has an up-to-date list updated in real-time based on PCGW entries
random steppe
Yeah but pul it from what exactly is the question
thorny loom
Sale on steam and stuff
random steppe
Because if you pull it from the store, people that bought it are still going to download it,
You are just not getting new money from it
fresh bane
Fiest time installs yes
First time installs on a device, if you install it on another device it'll count it seems
So if you install a game once in your PC and then again in, say your Steam Deck, it'll count
random steppe
If you pull it from the whole service, it's a much harder thing to do.
You are denying your customers access to a product they bought, it might affect you greatly
fresh bane
It's either that or go into debt
thorny loom
It wouldn’t be the first time a company has removed an old version to force people to use a new version
random steppe
Also if you are developing a game for 5 years and are waiting to sell it, pullting it means you get no money for those 5 years, it also makes no sense for them to do that.
thorny loom
See rockstar games with the gta remastered trilogy
Like i said. I would be surprised if unity actually keeps this plan by the end of the week
And not just abandon it entirely due to the dumpster fire it’s causing the company
random steppe
It's either that or go into debt <:rdwut:399725074204065802>
Would it tho? It depends from the game
I would bet the average installs per lifetime of a unity game is under 5, that would cose the publisher one buck.
If the revenue per user is less than one buck ,it'll suck
If it's much higher than that, they wouldn't pull it
fresh bane
I don't understand what you're arguing exactly, yeah of course that if a game doesn't reaches those thresholds it won't apply, but it's the fact that it's a thing at all or if you happen to get lucky and go big and now you're fucked
random steppe
No even if you are big I mean
It adds an extra cost per user, and they wont go into debt unless that cost exceedes what they are making from that user
hasty patio
random steppe
I am not saying it isn't bad, it does incentives a bunch of bad behaviour and also, Unity stops making sense for a lot of games (very low price per copy or Free to Play ones for example)
green fulcrum
https://x.com/LumpyTheCook/status/1701705675733406058?s=20
What a very trustworthy face.
/s
random steppe
Just that people are acting as if now none can use it and ever make money from it.
I think a lot of unity games are still profitable even with this change, probably the vast majority of them, and as such I am skeptical at people saying what they are saying on twitter.
I feel like we'll see a few developers bailing out of principle, a few because the business model doesn't make sense for their game, but a lot of them will stay in because of the sunk cost of developlment and that's not necessarily a good thing, since this pratice just isn't good
I think that rather than indie developers going under because of install prices, the actual real effects of this will be publisher beign much more reticent with pushing sales, and price of unity games starting and staying higher for their lifetimes, and maybe even publishers less likely to take on an indie project if they don't think they will start costing them in the long run.
Also it'll probably change publishers contracts in very bad ways.
dire gate
Go Calinou, make more people use Godot
fresh bane
Unless I missed anything about how this works I don't think people are over exaggerating, some people are because that's just how this sort of thing works especially with how quickly this is developing but the ones that are raising their voices the most and being the most affected are indie devs who couldn't really keep up with this change much less make a substantial profit or not see their profits affected and there's also the question of whether pirated copies will count, whether it retroactively gets added to already existing games, and other questions
Also not every publisher is big enough to not be significantly affected by this either, not every publisher is a huge name in the industry
Really there's only a handful that I could for sure say wouldn't be hugely affected even though they'd definitely be affected
Really even if ''it wasn't that bad'' it's still something that shouldn't even be implemented at all
random steppe
Yeah it'll either pass the buck to consumer or to the developer, likely to the consumer as such we'll see higher price points for unity games.
fresh bane
The Cult of the Lamb twitter account even just tweeted they're gonna be taking down their game as soon as this rolls out, whether they're lying or whether they're doing it because it'd greatly affect them or just out of principle I don't know but I have no reason to think it's not because it will affect them greatly that they feel the need to just straight up take it down
river veldt
this is nuts
fresh bane
And in that situation there's also the question of does it count if people install the game even if they already own it or have installed it in the past?
random steppe
I feel they would be doing out of principle personally, and good on them.
hasty patio
I suspect it is a joke, but that is a serious threat to their business.
random steppe
It counts as installation per device
I think the scaries bit is that it's a new way to attack a game publisher/developer.
Like if you hate them and start installing the game on as many devices you can in order to hurt them monetarily.
In normal circumstances tho, it's the law of big numbers.
You will take the average install per user, and that will be the extra cost the game is now costing you
So if you determine that each user install the game 2.5 times per lifetime, that will be the extra cost you have to add to the game to make the same money, or the hit you will take on your revenue
fresh bane
On an unrelated note I just noticed that they changed Twitter's UI and put the numbers and icon on the same bar so now you have to go out of your way to actually check the list of likes and RTs and you can't just click on the number anymore to see it which is so fucking incredibly stupid and unnecessary
fresh bane
It counts as installation per device
I know it's first installation per device but we don't know if this will be added or counted retroactively or if it starts being counted as they implement it
teal sonnet
just the fact they thought of per install is insanity
random steppe
I doubt it's anything retroactive
fresh bane
a lot of people were greatly worried that just reinstalling it would pretty much bankrupt you but they confirmed it doesn't work like that even though they're being pretty secretive about how it even works but the fact that it's per device is still pretty bad because a lot of people have more than one device
random steppe
If it is I have no doubt we'll hear about it
random steppe
I mean Steam can, they probably would go through their system
fresh bane
I know we're not exactly living in the age of privacy on the internet and pretty much every time you cough is probably being recorded by some device in your home but still
rancid herald
Don't be silly, citizen, we're not listening
fresh bane
rancid herald
now please enjoy this adverisement related to your internet privacy concerns
teal sonnet
I am just scared of they not reverting this bs
because there really is not good alternatives
unreal is not good for indies
rancid herald
NORDVPN, it lets you watch uk netflix and prevents the hackers from hacking you!! use the code MANECHAT23 to get 33% off your first month
rancid herald
why isn't unreal good for indies?
teal sonnet
it is just way more complex in a way
Not being good is poor wording
it is just different idk how to explain
fresh bane
I'm guessing it's just a much different workflow and difficult for an indie dev to learn but I'm just assuming
teal sonnet
pretty much
rancid herald
I do get the impression unity is more... lightweight? flexible?
teal sonnet
unity is easy as fuck to learn
visual hill
Unreal is super complex, and it's purely focused on 3D. UE4 had a basic 2D engine called Paper2D but it was dropped entirely, as it wasn't used much
sacred grove
Unreal is an unwieldy beast that doesn't cater to 2D very well
visual hill
a lot of Unity devs are doing 2D games, where the competition is mainly Godot and GameMaker Studio
fresh bane
There's also a lot of resources for Unity that go years and years back so you have a pretty big community there that can help out
rancid herald
unreal is made for first person shooters and first person shooter assessories
doesn't apple own unity?
sacred grove
I don't think so?
teal sonnet
far as I know nop
random steppe
That would be news to me
rancid herald
I could've sworn apple owned a major game engine
thorny loom
unreal is made for first person shooters and first person shooter assessories
Unreal can do anything if you put enough effort into it
visual hill
they don't, and they don't make in-house games
teal sonnet
they did partnerships to make unity work on silicon
fresh bane
The only ''2D'' Unreal game I can think of is Guilty Gear and FighterZ but they're not actually 2D and are just mimicking a 2D aesthetic with 3D
teal sonnet
it is just insane the amount of indie games is made on unity
rancid herald
Maybe they just invested in it and I got confused
like how nvidia throws money at the blender foundation
random steppe
I think that the most fucked in this istuation is games that are free to play or are extremely low entry price points
Like Fall Guys is fucked
visual hill
yeah, Apple does partnerships with various game studios. It's not very common compared to AMD/Intel/NVIDIA
random steppe
Unless they have a way of not paying said fees, which it's possible
teal sonnet
every unity game on gamepass is utterly massively fucked
visual hill
(and even Blender, in fact)
random steppe
Maybe they are an exception
fresh bane
it is just insane the amount of indie games is made on unity
not just indie but again, Mario Kart Tour and Mario Run use Unity, YGO Master Duel and Duel Links too
Mobile games especially use Unity a lot
especially especially f2p games
teal sonnet
this thing even includes fucking demos
random steppe
Nah they specified that they wont charge for demo installs
teal sonnet
oh
fresh bane
I think it doesn't unless the demo includes the full game or some weird thing like that
Early access does count I think though
random steppe
Well yeah, makes sense, you are buying the game
teal sonnet
visual hill
Steam has a game trial system, I wonder if it'll be affected
because you are technically shipping the full game, just with a time limit
rancid herald
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/apples-mixed-reality-headset-announcement-sends-unity-stock-soaring-202949563.html oh, it must have been this
dire gate
every unity game on gamepass is utterly massively fucked
I think I saw that Unity clarified that Game Pass doesn't count
random steppe
Oh yeah, they are citing a business model that essentialy only exists on mobile
Basically you download a game that is the full game, and later pay to unlock it
If you want it
fresh bane
Gamepass and any bundle doesn't count I think
random steppe
I think that they said that in gamepass the cost would go to microsoft right?
Not that it wont apply
Which is still fucked
dire gate
oof
teal sonnet
less bad but still fucked
random steppe
Since it means that basically every unity game that doesn't get massive numbers will be instantly dropped from Game Pass
I think it might be more fucked
teal sonnet
I wonder if a big company like the ones who make genshin will do something about it
because they for sure want to fucking slap unity right now
and have the money to fucking fight this shit
if anything going on a lawsuit for years can be less expensive than accepting this stuff
random steppe
Let's do some math, let's take the 1 buck per user as a budget which is 5 installs and count with Genshin Impact
hasty patio
They're running on the more expensive plan, so it is a penny or two at the most.
random steppe
Google tells me that Genshing Impact has had 127 million lifetime users, which means that if they all install the game an average of 5 times, they would be on the hook for 127 million dollars
fresh bane
let's do some math
oh no
dire gate
Japanese gacha game companies when users start Reset Marathon : 
hasty patio
The people that will get fucked over are the smaller indie or one-hit wonder folks that can't expense in that larger plan.
fresh bane
also yes if you have a more premium unity subscription the number you need to get to for this to count is higher and the amount of revenue you need to get is higher and the fee is lower
random steppe
Seems like Genshin Impact yearly revenue is 1.5 Billion dollars, so not a drop in the bucket for its lifetime up until now worst case scenario but probably they'd still be fine
teal sonnet
yeah checking here, big ones will pretty much be fine
dire gate
Yeah they can just sell more gacha and they will be fine
random steppe
Yeah I don't think Genshin will do anything, they'll cry into their pile of money for 20 minutes and get over it
teal sonnet
release a new character and get all the money back in 10min
fresh bane
But this is Genshin we're talking about here, one of the most insanely big and profitable games
random steppe
Google tells me that Genshing Impact has had 127 million lifetime users, which m...
And to be clear, this is a "what if scenario of the system beign in unity when Genshin started", not what they have to pay now
river veldt
is Genshin Impact fun
fresh bane
any indie game or even just mildly successful game/dev will be pretty affected even if they're a only a little big
teal sonnet
need to take in count too
dire gate
And to be clear, this is a "what if scenario of the system beign in unity when G...
That scenario is probably worse than you calculate there
teal sonnet
steam takes a cut of the money, publishers take a cut too
now unity fucking them over
mf will make a game and end up in dept
random steppe
I think it's not worse
5 installs per lifetime per user I feel is pretty conservative
dire gate
Download counts go exponentially higher at the beginning of the lifespan of such gacha mobile game.
random steppe
Most people will install it once or twice
teal sonnet
free games will pretty much end
dire gate
People make like 60 different accounts to get specific characters
It gets stabilized at later stage of its lifespan
random steppe
I guess it depends how it's counted in that situation
dire gate
People use multi-client emulation, and I'd say that is likely to be counted as multiple downloads
random steppe
I do think that smaller free to play games will likely be strongly affected unless they put an exception on that
random steppe
Just not genshin specifically because they are huge and can easly absorb the cost
dire gate
Gacha games work...weird
random steppe
https://twitter.com/DaniDevYT/status/1701650631948214393
He is joking to be clear, I don't think they are going back and charging for past installs
hasty patio
I don't think they will either, but who knows if that will hold up.
random steppe
But yeah it's a good example of the kind of game that can't exist in unity after this
hasty patio
It can exist, but you have to pay for the higher package, which might not be feasible for smaller folks.
fresh bane
free games will pretty much end
Free to play games have the option to not pay the fee... if they include ads in their game
hasty patio
A lot of things started as YOLOs and turned out to be amazing.
fresh bane
Free to play games also have a massively higher rate of installs/downloads compared to payed games
hasty patio
We're just seeing yet another medium be turned into more greed and causing waves. Others will see it and follow if possible.
random steppe
I am now seeing the future, of free to play games running an ad for godot at the start of the game to get around it
astral steeple
oh so it now it makes sense why unity is doing what theyre doing all of a sudden
the CEO of Unity was the CEO of EA at one point lol
fresh bane
Also why even make it install based? I just realized now
what a weird fucking way to even manage this shitty idea
random steppe
Because they want to make money on the very long run on games
Also because the industy is moving on services like game pass
teal sonnet
if was just after X amount of money made you pay Y percentage to unity
everything would be fine
random steppe
And they make a smaller cut of the pie there
dire gate
10 Years from now and we can't even talk to Calinou because they're too famous and busy as Godot is used by 90% of the game developers /j
fresh bane
I don't know man, even if it wasn't as bad as people were making it out to be which I don't think is the case it still just feels pretty scummy and shitty
I don't buy for a second that this is done to research and fund new tech in the slightest which is what they say it's for
random steppe
I think it's awful in ways that are different that most people are doomsaying on twitter
In some cases in worse ways
But it wont probably kill Unity games out of the box
teal sonnet
It is pretty much killing indie games game in unity
random steppe
Despite what Twitter is saying
random steppe
Definitely not, the vast majority of games being developed in Unity will not be affected because they wont reach the sales, or will still make money if they do
It's still bad
But we shouldn't act as if it's something that isn't
teal sonnet
as a PR thing even
people will be scared of using unity
I would not trust to spend years on something after they pull shit like this
random steppe
Maybe, I mean probably to make a game you plan to release for free or sell at 3 bucks, it doesn't make much sense to use unity
teal sonnet
I wounder what will happen to big games that not make much money
vrchat is a example
it is a massive free game
they have a subscription system to make some money
random steppe
https://twitter.com/DaniDevYT/status/1701650631948214393
I wasn't aware of this BTW, I think it's likely that very big games are under unity plus or unity enterprise, in which case they are probably still making about as much money
The people that risk to get caught is the single person dev that made a game that blew up
And now they have to raise the price or they can't pay the install fees in the future, or pull the game from Steam compleltely
Like, if you are developing in a company, they can probably pay the 2k a month for pro at least
Or if you are a professional developer
teal sonnet
amogus would have been a time bomb
fresh bane
Depends on the size of the company some publishers and companies can't really afford this sort of thing
teal sonnet
they made the game, left it there for years and blew the fuck up out of nowhere
if that was after all this, they would have been fucked
random steppe
Among Us is the one thing that I am not sure.
The game was like, 5 bucks, and they are a very small company
Which means they made A LOT of money.
If this was in place they probably wouldn't have pushed it for free on Epic Games Store for example tho
But it's very likely that they would still have made a fuckton of money, even with a fee on installs
I refuse to believe they made less than a buck per sale
And they had very low operating costs
They were literally millionaries within weeks
The company was at least
dire gate
I don't think "they still make money, so they're fine" is a great point
random steppe
I mean, it's true.
teal sonnet
vrchat all gucci
random steppe
I'm not saying it's a good change
river veldt
i forgor Vrchat exist
dire gate
MORTIS
flint iron
Haven't seen that game for a few years
river veldt
it's so good
flint iron
Yeah, when I first watched Markiplier play it I was surprised how good the game was
river veldt
have you seen the other chapter(s)?
flint iron
Only the first 2 chapters
flint iron
How many chapters are there
river veldt
3
flint iron
I'm about to check if Mark played it
river veldt
yippee !
flint iron
Continuing watching Mark play the series and I'm just now noticing that the style is close to fnaf's minigame style
flint iron
Yeh especially atari 2600 graphics
river veldt
ok ignore i said ZX Spectrum because those were more graphically capable than i remembered lmao
flint iron
fresh bane
Wendigoon did a Faith video recently that I've been watching and haven't gotten through entirely yet
river veldt
https://youtu.be/Cz6Nv0QiXoc?si=L5KKLlrOohmTvU9k
yesssss
river veldt
https://youtube.com/shorts/ufdEa8_lyXM?si=1wE4hXCa6hsXPeUj
lol that's amazing
sonic dune
Doomguy uses his right hand for the trigger on the super shotgun and shotgun
Why does he left hand his pistol
fresh bane
Probably because the dev that took the original reference picture of his hand with the pistol was right handed and took a picture with his right hand
river veldt
iirc Tom Hall did the hand modeling for Doomguy because he had extremely hairy arms
sonic dune
But he could have mirrored the image
I repeat
fresh bane
they could've mirrored the image, but they didn't
the only weapon that uses any sort of mirroring is the BFG
river veldt
yeas
sonic dune
Trust me I am aware they did photo scans for textures
You don't need to tell me three times they did photo scans
fresh bane
I didn't say that
quartz pawn
https://x.com/theswweet/status/1701702860176818355?s=46&t=bVzXPIZvXYyJJoEkCfgMsQ
that last sentence
quiet swift
Unless someone buys out Unity, this is their current stance.
I mean, hoyoverse makes all the money in the universe and probably could
slim thorn
the capitalist true ending of this whole scenario is that Hoyoverse buys out Unity, but keeps this fee structure for everyone else's Unity games 
slim thorn
images you can hear
slim thorn
People are saying that it does but also it doesn't affect games retroactively so...
I think the confusion here is that the install fees don't apply to any installs before Jan 1st 2024, but they do apply to future installs of games created and released before 2024
so it's "not retroactive" in the sense that nothing kicks in until this future date, but it is "retroactive" in that the devs didn't sign up for this when they chose Unity and it's now too late for many of them to switch
static bluff
Yeah, it's like trying to swap out the foundation of a massive skyscraper after it's been built.
gaunt marten
Next time consider building your skyscraper in a swamp
Then you'll know to put the extra work in ahead of time and won't be shocked when it turns to a swamp later
slim thorn
not to mention this "future date" is still, what? ~3.5 months after this was announced?
there's no way they don't know this puts countless half-finished projects between a rock and a hard place
arctic fern
Yeah, it's like trying to swap out the foundation of a massive skyscraper after ...
its more like going specifically, to, say, penguin publishing to get your book printed and stuff
then a year later they charge you for every time the book is read, even in libraries and illegal PDFs
you cant change it now, those books exist
slim thorn
Onosa was talking about developers reimplementing their game in another engine
gaunt marten
there's no way they don't know this puts countless half-finished projects betwee...
They know very well and are choosing to proceed with that in mind. They estimate that their thresholds are met by 10% of developers.
slim thorn
yep
I am genuinely curious if this is even legal
but clearly they think it is considering the range of companies using Unity
gaunt marten
Given the number of trash titles out there 10% is an insane amount
arctic fern
i wonder how many of those are ones that are free or would be otherwise completely bankrupted by this
probably a lot
gaunt marten
You only need to pay if you make 200k a year from the game, so if your game is completely free it doesn't count
If your game is free but supported by a tiny subset of whales and you do everything in your power to squeeze every penny out of users then you might count and also fuck you
static bluff
its more like going specifically, to, say, penguin publishing to get your book p...
Also a good analogy of this awful situation, thank you
gaunt marten
Game maker's toolkit
Game Maker isn't at the top of engines used
arctic fern
does game maker's toolkit own game maker?
arctic fern
i actually wasnt sure
slim thorn
afaik they're unrelated
arctic fern
well i know that now
slim thorn
amusingly, I think the GMTK videos where he makes a game himself are using Unity?
gaunt marten
One interesting consequence is shovelware made with Unity that's expected to make under a thousand dollars each and is just pumped to steam will be completely unaffected
arctic fern
yep
gaunt marten
amusingly, I think the GMTK videos where he makes a game himself are using Unity...
Yes. He's making a unity game right now but considering a change
random steppe
One interesting consequence is shovelware made with Unity that's expected to mak...
To be fair tho, that's not on Unity, that's on Steam to curate their damn store
gaunt marten
It's definitely on the developers making the game and everyone including Steam and Unity should be doing their best to punish this abuse
random steppe
Eh, Steam I feel is much more on the hook for it given that they sell the thing
gaunt marten
Yeah, they are
random steppe
But yeah, I get ya
bleak lintel
Apparently Unity's plan is to bill the distributors. So that's only Microsoft, Valve, Apple, Epic, EA, Ubisoft, Sony, Nintendo, you know the small companies.
random steppe
Yeah but it's likely that they will pass the buck to the consumer or the developer, probably both
bleak lintel
I'm pretty sure those big companies will use their legal teams over their billing teams.
random steppe
I actually don't think that the deal will change much for 99% of the titles.
I am more worried about subtle changes.
Like selling a game at a very low price suddently becomes harder to make a profit out of it, since there is an extra cost for every installation (if the devs have the base Unity license at least)
This also puts a huge barrier for those title for getting on gamepass
Because if Microsoft has to pay extra for every install, it's a much harder sell for them to feature those titles within a subscription service
gaunt marten
Yeah, the only issue I have is the thresholds are too low and the per unit cost is too high
bleak lintel
Unity also needs to somehow track these download numbers.
slim thorn
yep, the biggest cost here is in figuring out what the financial costs even are
maybe in practice it wouldn't have been a huge chunk of your revenue, but not having to worry about it at all when doing giveaways and gamepass and even deciding to make a damn game in the first place is a very valuable thing
especially since this depends on Unity's proprietary install counting magic which of course nobody trusts
gaunt marten
Tracking would be easier if the engine reported each install by connecting to the internet
slim thorn
and we all know how many problems that creates
light gate
Well each Unity game install homes and sends telemetry data technically.
slim thorn
one of the secondary concerns in all this is whether they'll end up charging devs for pirated copies
light gate
On first boot, it does a bunch of things.
random steppe
I think that if they just went and just added a few point of revenue share in the license it would have been much simpler and would have been just as effective at making money
slim thorn
indeed, which is what's so weird about this
random steppe
I remain convinced that this is about them being scared about subscription services
slim thorn
they put a lot of effort into this whole per-install fee plan (even if the tracking is bad in practice, they still had to create it)
gaunt marten
Well each Unity game install homes and sends telemetry data technically.
Yeah. Now you just have to discount games that were installed multiple times by the same user and pirated games and also track the source of each install so you know who to bill
gaunt marten
They said they will
random steppe
Like, if Microsoft drops a bag of money to Team Cherry to put Hollow Knight on gamepass, do Unity even see any for it?
This way ensures they will.
I wonder if this is what this is about
bleak lintel
Maybe if you pirate a game, Unity sends the bill to Pirate Bay.
light gate
Like, if Microsoft drops a bag of money to Team Cherry to put Hollow Knight on g...
No, its far more.
Its not just that.
slim thorn
I thought they said gamepass installs don't get fee'd (and the question was if we believe them)
god the list of clarifications is so long already I can't keep it all straight
light gate
Well they claim.
slim thorn
which is the whole problem with this scheme of course
random steppe
I thought they said gamepass installs don't get fee'd (and the question was if w...
They said they do, but they'd bill Microsoft for that
slim thorn
it almost doesn't matter what the per install fee is when tracking installs raises so many headache-inducing questions
random steppe
Which sounds weird to me
light gate
Like fucking MS is gonna allow that.
random steppe
Like, what if Microsoft says "I didn't sign your license, fuck off"
slim thorn
ok yeah that's the one that really raises questions of other companies raising a legal challenge
because I was not expecting indie devs to form a class action
random steppe
The license is specifically between the devs and Unity, I don't see how they can go and ask money to anyone else, but they say they will, and I am confused