We're already starting to live in the worlds we see in Deus Ex and Cyberpunk, only without the cool agumentations and trench coats or neon jackets 
#general gaming
fresh bane
random steppe
To be clear, if you think what he is saying do reflect reality now, get help
slim thorn
my favorite part is how much of it is classic retro boomer consipracy theory nonsense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_12
random steppe
It's impressive that they did guess that well what conspiracy theories would have looked like now tho.
thorny loom
my favorite part is how much of it is classic retro boomer consipracy theory non...
Agent K would like to know your location
random steppe
It's really good storytelling that said, conspiracy theories are much more entertaining than reality so making a game in which they are reality makes for an excellent spy story
It's why Deus Ex is so good
thorny loom
the most eerie thing thing it got right was terrorists destroying the WTC
when it was originally just not there cause game engine limitations
slim thorn
it's also a very appropriate setting for a game that's designed so heavily around player freedom
in both story and gameplay, blindly following orders will leave you clueless about what's really going on until it's far too late
random steppe
I should replay it, I played when I was basically barely literate, most of the whole thing flew above my head so far
slim thorn
and one of the basic paradoxes of that style of design is that if you don't seek out the lore, you never know most of it is there
fresh bane
Nah there's definitely a lot conspiracy nut stuff in there for fluff, but honestly? a vast majority of the content in the game is still just straight up facts and provable
definitely not a illuminati type situation like it is in deus ex though 
random steppe
Of the game, maybe, of that stuff, it's nonsense
fresh bane
This is another pretty good video on Deus Ex
fresh bane
and one of the basic paradoxes of that style of design is that if you don't seek...
sounds like those people have a skill issue then 
random steppe
It's what conspiracy theories do, they latch on at factoids that point vaguely at the right direction.
But it's definitely far from provable.
Please don't get conspiracy theoried by the game with least polygons ever made, it'd be way too pathetic
quiet swift
I'd like the old Deus Ex to get one of these super high quality/high profile remakes (and actually also be good)
wind stump
Please don't get conspiracy theoried by the game with least polygons ever made, ...
either that or latching onto one that was deliberately made to take the piss
But for real?
Birds are not real.
quiet swift
random steppe
Don't get me wrong, the game does get quite a bit of things right, especially about corporations and how they work, IIRC gets just short from predicting the gig economy which is legit impressive.
For a game that came out in...checks...year 2000
fresh bane
I mean I could get into it and we could discuss it for sure I wouldn't want to remain ignorant on these topics but isn't most of this stuff pretty rule 2 already? 
slim thorn
well, kinda
random steppe
I wonder if a lot of it, comes from the fact that contract work came very very early to the gaming industry
slim thorn
but it's hardly controversial to point out that, in real life, the government did not create COVID, for example 
random steppe
Like, gaming companies contracting stuff out to smaller companies, or just hiring a bunch of contractors to bulk up for a big project, and them letting them go was the norm since forever
river veldt
are you sure Ixrec
slim thorn
Cap, no
fresh bane
When it comes to Deus Ex the things that I say are true are pretty much rich people getting richer and more powerful, people getting poorer and even more homelessness happening and media and surveillance stuff, but MGS2 touches on media and the internet a bit more, although Deus Ex gets into that too
wind stump
CAP NO
fresh bane
yeah I don't think any government created covid lol
slim thorn
sure the rise of wealth inequality is well-documented and awful
that's only a tiny piece of the Deus Ex lore
river veldt
this is where it's revealed that i believe in every conspiracy theory (for legal reasons i don't)
wind stump
river veldt
who is this cute emoji
slim thorn
one of Hc's favorite Touhous
river veldt
my favourite Touhou is Isaac
fresh bane
I like how that last video I sent worded it, it's less about a secret organization that gets together in meetings and does rituals and plans to take over the world etc etc, it's mostly just rich powerful people thinking alike and doing whatever they gotta do to get even richer and even more powerful because of course they're gonna do that
wind stump
She does in fact, not exist
river veldt
i still say "toohoo" instead of "toho"
random steppe
Makes sense
fresh bane
in spanish we call them las tojas 
random steppe
Glad I got it from the context
slim thorn
to be fair she's a mythical/youkai bird that actually isn't real
river veldt
is he a bird
dense crypt
thanks marisa
wind stump
proud warren
Misread that as "Touhou Jackass LOL"
wind stump
i am also a touhou jackass
quiet swift
The touhou jackass
dense crypt
threehee
rancid herald
there sure are a lot of games coming out these next three months
thorny loom
quiet swift
Persona 4 golden.
Me: 
Huh, teddy is telling me not to open this chest.
screw you I do what I want!
A shadow, as expected
Named... Reaper? This oughta be interesting.
Huh, lots of hp, this'll take a while
reaper attacks once
RETREAT
white phoenix
Oh boy
quiet swift
Thankfully i was indeed able to escape
quiet swift
have you fought the P3 reaper?
p4 golden is my first persona or shin megami tensei game
slim thorn
ah ok
in P3 at least it was an optional post-game boss that even Tale needed several tries to beat after specifically preparing for it
quiet swift
I looked it up and apparently it's after opening 20 boxes that need keys. You do get the option to not open it and are warned by Teddy but I went in thinking it can't be that bad
Narrator: It was worse.
wind stump
poke poke poke
wind stump
i own cats and this is 100% accurate
wind stump
I wonder if they ditched P3 for P3P?
white phoenix
I don't think so, I think releasing the p3p remaster was a calculated business decision to 1. get P3 back into the public eye, and 2. it would be the last chance to sell the old version of p3 before releasing the supposed remake
either way, i need to see my girl kotone in fully rendered 4k instead of just visual novel screens
pls 
chilly mural
https://twitter.com/moonwalkgrab/status/1644068859744501760
amazing @shy flare
shy flare
Im dead dude hahaha
What a crossover
I love that GG Melee responded
"Either someone paid for this image, or someone created it out of their own interest. Both are very scary realities to be living in."
fresh bane
P3 REMAKE??? https://twitter.com/AVtoGAMEnoYAMI/status/1644990912328798208
Persona 3 remake
fresh bane
pls <:prayge:910735664595742722>
I remember being so pissed when I found out after years of playing P3P that the ''real'' Persona 3 version is actually Persona 3 FES for PS2 and it has a bunch of stuff like animated cutscenes and you actually walk around school and downtown rather than it being a point and click and visual novel type thing
P3P still the best version though
slim thorn
so many games overcomplicate the version issue because of all the mobile port downgrades
white phoenix
I remember being so pissed when I found out after years of playing P3P that the ...
Right??
But femc tho
Its beautiful, I've been staring and thinking about that clip of yukari for 4 hours now
fresh bane
Yeah when it comes to P3P it's less of a direct downgrade and more of a tradeoff
You trade the animated cutscenes and actual 3D overworld and characters for what is essentially more content and better gameplay features like being able to manually control all members of your team
That's why P3P got remastered and not P3FES 
white phoenix
I heard that the p3fes source code was lost/too convoluted to be ported
There's also a simple mod for the emulated version of p3fes to control party members
But femc is worth all of that combined and more
fresh bane
I never played as the female mc so I don't have any attachment to her
slim thorn
meanwhile I have no attachment to the male
white phoenix
Yeah her soundtrack bangs
white phoenix
Theo's so precious though
fresh bane
Ew, elizabeth best girl
wind stump
white phoenix
Her dates are great in fes, where the 3d models actually act out the gags they do
untold vigil
Give me those dates with femc in 3d. . . then we can talk
fresh bane
Elizabeth's dates? Because she's dateable with both MCs I think
white phoenix
Yes
This is one of my favourite ways to show the difference between the two mcs https://preview.redd.it/fxmy04ha7jr31.png?auto=webp&s=8c8a1654604d45c4190dd47311fe72c37f309b3b
chilly mural
when's persona 2
chilly mural
fresh bane
Everyone knows Persona started with P3 after all
white phoenix
the number system starts at 3, after all
chilly mural
the anti-valve
fresh bane
It's funny, because most of the changes for Persona's remaster for the PSP are changes that make it less like a SMT game and more like a Persona, with some of the biggest changes being a completely new ost with more groovy Persona music
And yet not a whole lotta people played Persona or Persona 2 lol
Persona really did unironically start with 3,it's undeniably very different from 1 and 2
fresh bane
I still think p1 and p2 are great games that deserve the spotlight too 
But mass audiences don't really seem to care for them
Even if Atlus released remasters I'm almost certain they wouldn't reach as much popularity as P3 4 and 5
fresh bane
she does look pretty cute
I know very little about P2 personally
I might have to play it someday
quiet swift
Speaking of Persona, i'm loving how the characters "cure" panic or other similar ailments
white phoenix
THE LEAKS KEEP COMING https://twitter.com/MbKKssTBhz5/status/1645169046290149379
use translate on twitter
atlus and persona 3 been trending on twitter all day
cedar badge
I think I did probably my most ridiculous achievement in Minecraft Dungeons
Apocalypse +9 Soggy Swamp, but with like 6 banners, 3 for threat increase, one for 40% of melee mobs to be creepers, player damage reduced by 40% and enemy health increased by 60%.
At the end I was using two friend pendants and a satchel of exilers for shadow form.
To stack with ambush and dynamo to do big hits and retreats.
thorny loom
hasty patio
I hate to tell you, but that will probably be the new base price point for AAA games now and into the future.
fickle garnet
mossy flume
Looks like the early hands-on reviews are pretty universally just glowing reviews
Interesting… imma try this out
river veldt
fucking Billy Mitchell
fresh bane
Billy Mitchell's story is the most unhinged I've ever come across
This man has been fighting his entire life to keep up an obvious lie and making a mockery of the legal system by repeatedly filing frivolous lawsuits
rancid herald
who?
fresh bane
He was seventeen years old when the whole thing happened in 1982, he's almost 60 years old now and he hasn't stopped his bullshit for a second
Absolutely deranged
Same thing with the other dude who claims he did that one impossible time on that car game but not only has it never actually been proven it's also been proven by datamining that the score he got isn't even possible to achieve
river veldt
who?
Billy Mitchell held the Pac Man and Donkey Kong high score world records for a long time but then it was proven that he was using an emulator which is a big no no
rancid herald
ah
fresh bane
That doesn't quite cut it, it's like an omega abridged version of this rabbit hole
river veldt
yeah lmao
fresh bane
He got caught using an emulator after years of getting records in games, so that called all his prior records into question and because there was no real proof of his prior records Twin Galaxies, which is owned by a friend of Mitchell, took down all his records
Ever since he's been losing his mind trying desesperately to shut down any criticism towards him and anyone who dares call him out on anything, filing dozens of lawsuits and making a fool of himself because he can't admit he cheated
Pretty much if Billy Mitchell notices you saying something like ''Oh it's that guy that cheated on game records right?'' you bet he's gonna sue your ass
thorny loom
ah
Hes also one of those rich people that sues anyone that disagrees with him as an intimidation tactic
fresh bane
he made the mistake of suing Karl Jobst recently, one of the most beloved figures in speedrunning communities and Karl won't be intimidated by his lawsuits although they are super expensive to maintain which is why he's abusing the system
proud warren
Passpartout 2 is so alleviating for stress; is very enjoyable to play 
fresh bane
I'm probably biased on this because I really like this content creator but holy shit this is about as good of a Majora's Mask remaster as we're gonna get
It's the RE4 HD Project of Zelda games
I would say I've never seen more care and love and effort put into updating a game's visuals but RE4 HD project exists but it gets close
untold vigil
I'm getting back to playing BOTW finally and while I still love it I forgot how much fucking WILDLY annoying stuff is stuck between all the good
I see that reaction Ix
And let me tell you
if you think I get mad at persona
You should see me on hour 8 of BOTW rain while I'm trying to climb a thing
slim thorn
well, this is why half my BotW experience was teleporting between shrine locations
untold vigil
That doesnt fucking work if the teleport point is what you need to climb now does it
slim thorn
sure but like ten minutes of climbing to unlock the next teleport point is fun
untold vigil
Motion control things are also annoying as fuck
especially because I use a set of joycons that are better built not for that
slim thorn
oh, I don't even remember motion controls in BotW
honestly at this point I wouldn't be surprised if you said the motion controls are only used for one DLC vehicle added a year after release if you fight the post-game boss that only appears if you fully decorate Link's house
young creek
theres 5 or 6 motion control shrines
in the base game
one of them is the warp point to Hateno so its impossible to miss
untold vigil
thats the one
static bluff
heeheehee
untold vigil
That is the only way I have ever completed it
fresh bane
Nintendo still won't let go of motion control gimmicks but at least in BOTW they're a lot more tolerable
slim thorn
oooh these tilt maze marble puzzles
fresh bane
Of course my experience with the motion controls in BOTW was horrendous because I play it on an emulator
with a keyboard and a mouse
slim thorn
well it's been so long I have no idea if I ever did these shrines, but I don't recall flipping any mazes
young creek
thats a cheese strat not the way you're supposed to do it
you're supposed to just lead an orb through the maze
fresh bane
Yeah I don't think I ever cheesed those I think
Would've been useful to know
the shrines are easily one of the worst parts of BOTW
Neat concept at first, but after a while it just got super tiresome and I grew super tired of the Sheikah aesthetic, I miss the traditional dungeons
slim thorn
but... that's all I did after the main quest 
fresh bane
That's all there really is to do
And you must do them if you wanna get the Master Sword
The Shrines and Koroks make up like, literally 50 to 70% of all the side content you end up doing
If not an even higher percentage
The side quests are nothing in comparison, it's not a small map, there's hundreds of shrines and literally almost a thousand koroks distributed on every corner 
I seriously hope ToTK will bring back regular dungeons and make side quests more interesting, hell I wouldn't mind a more linear direction like a traditional zelda personally but I don't think that's gonna happen
fresh bane
The Shrines and Koroks make up like, literally 50 to 70% of all the side content...
Oh and farming crafting materials is also a thing you do, like for fairies to upgrade or for the monster shop and stuff
slim thorn
come to think of it, having larger dungeons might be the one way to make me interested in TotK
fresh bane
The shrines really should be like side content scattered around like mini dungeons, and the game treats them as side content but also treats them as main content too it ends up being the bulk of what you do when it should be the other way around
the main dungeons should take up the bulk and the shrines should be small stuff
so bigger main dungeons would be very appreciated, especially now that there's that whole new ancient civilization being unearthed type thing
young creek
The Shrines and Koroks make up like, literally 50 to 70% of all the side content...
not if count exploring the world which is kind of what the game is all about
fresh bane
Sure but exploring the world doesn't really count as a percentage of 'content' you do, it's just exploring the world, and you will eventually find either koroks, shrines or side quests, and out of those the shrines and koroks are a significant percentage which is kind of lame
the side quests are fun but if you're like me and you get to the point where you did all the main story stuff and you wanna explore as much as you can it ends up being super boring unfortunately
young creek
I dont understand why you need to define content like that. You spend waaay more time out looking for the shrines than doing them. And thats kind of what the game is about
slim thorn
I haven't touched the game since the year it came out so I have no idea how much time I spent on any of this
I feel like I might've looked up a map of shrine locations to get the last few of them
young creek
it probably gets tedious if you go down a list on ign of shrines and skip the whole exploration part
Ye I also had to use Google when I was on like 105 or something because I just wanted to get them all quickly by then
fresh bane
Even if you don't go down a list once you're far ahead enough into the game it starts to get daunting and boring with how many shrines and koroks there are
young creek
I mean yeah but you're not supposed to go get 900 koroks, lol
fresh bane
I ended up using a list on the last few because I really wanted to just get those shrines over with but that's why I'm saying that main dungeons should be the bulk of the content and the side stuff should be just side stuff
young creek
thats for crazy people
slim thorn
I don't remember trying to 100% koroks
the shrines actually had puzzles to solve in them
fresh bane
Well then why did they put 900 koroks then
young creek
So you can find them everywhere
if theres 100 koroks they are 9 times as hard to find
slim thorn
in fact I think I was completely unaware of korok seeds until much later than the game wanted me to be
young creek
They very intentionally made the reward for 900 completely useless
fresh bane
I'm pretty sure they could've done a much lower number than 900 koroks, especially shrines too, what I'm basically arguing here is that once you're done with the main content of the game that's all you really end up doing asides from side quests which in all probably take up less time than doing the koroks and shrines
young creek
I mean you get a turd how much more obvious could it be
untold vigil
I do appreciate any collectable that isn't supposed to be 100%d
Because that's always my least favorite part of anything
fresh bane
I have almost enough space on my inventory that I gave up the quest for koroks a long time ago
untold vigil
If you're not supposed to 100% them then more is always better
fresh bane
Once you know the reward is actual literal shit then once you get enough space you just kinda go 'fuck it'
young creek
On my current playthrough I have 70 seeds collected and more space than ill ever need
fresh bane
I grab any koroks I can find if I find em but I'm mostly doing side quests right now as well as trying to upgrade all my shit with fairy kisses
I'll eventually need to do the koroks to get 100% anyways but I'm trying to have fun now I might take a slight detour or something on the way to a sidequest and see what catches my eye, makes it less tedious
100+ hours of gameplay all lead up to this moment
untold vigil
As for linear stuff maybe
slim thorn
what is this "100%" you speak of?
untold vigil
I probably like Wind Waker and Twilight Princess more than BOTW in certain aspects but
WW is pretty open as well and I like that abou tit
fresh bane
what is this "100%" you speak of?
All main quests, all side quests, all shrine quests/all shrines, all koroks, full album and compendium, also the DLC quests/shrines to get full hearts
river veldt
i love the shrines 😎
untold vigil
I think I prefer the shorter puzzle areas to long dungeons
fresh bane
It's actually useful if you ever wanna look for a specific item
fresh bane
what were "the side quests"?
what do you mean? it's pretty self explanatory
just... side quests that people give you
untold vigil
Maybe I wouldn't if the dungeons were like flawlessly designed and super fun the whole way through
fresh bane
Anything that isn't directly related to the beasts
river veldt
WW is pretty open as well and I like that abou tit
my first Zelda was the actual first Zelda game so im more into the super open exploration based games rather than something like TP and SS
slim thorn
I'm fine with puzzles being split into bite-size chunks where it's clear that one chunk is not influencing the others in any way, but occasionally it took more travel time to reach a shrine than it took to do the puzzle inside, which did get annoying
fresh bane
Maybe I wouldn't if the dungeons were like flawlessly designed and super fun the...
I mean, I literally can't think of any truly awful Zelda dungeon right now out of all the games I played, even Skyward Sword had fun unique and beautiful dungeons and people hate that game
The truth is dungeons are just more appealing and better designed than the shrines, at least in my eyes
fresh bane
I'm fine with puzzles being split into bite-size chunks where it's clear that on...
Right, sometimes even finding the shrine is already the puzzle in itself
And i get it, exploration, but after a while it's just... you know 
Which is why I wish the game at least had less shrines
untold vigil
It's not that they're bad usually theyre just too long
fresh bane
A lot of the shrines and I really mean a lot of them are just not fun at all or really not that engaging and justifying their existence
river veldt
i disagree, i had fun with almost every shrine/shrine quest except the Apparatus ones
slim thorn
I probably did too considering I remember choosing to seek out all the shrines
untold vigil
Each one being it's own little self contained puzzle was neat
Not that they were all winners but
slim thorn
and, well, Zelda for me has always been this weird dichotomy of amazing dungeon puzzle boxes and just bafflingly impenetrable overworld stuff, so I was primed to care more about the shrines long before I started BotW
thorny loom
Zelda is ok i guess
fresh bane
I mean I'm glad you enjoyed them I guess but I can't say they were all fun, they get extremely tedious and repetitive and boring for me after the first dozen that you find in the wild and then it starts getting kind of stale
river veldt
i dont know what to tell you if you got bored of them after the first 12
river veldt
anyway shrines are fun and im excited to see what TotK has
untold vigil
Less weapon durability perhaps
river veldt
yeah you can combine things now
fresh bane
if we're lucky it'll have bigger shrines/dungeons, even though Link already gets all the shrines at the end of BOTW so they'd have to be Zonai and not Sheikah dungeons
at least that would be a nice change of aesthetic
slim thorn
sometimes I wonder if I should replay Twilight Princess
fresh bane
Yes
river veldt
i would play TP if it was ported to Switch
slim thorn
I've already replayed Okami (which oddly did not have the standard Zelda problem for me despite beinig designed just like one)
fresh bane
For a second there I was like ''wtf does Okami have to do with TP''
and then I remembered
slim thorn
lol
untold vigil
I replayed a chunk of it recently
fresh bane
The wolf gimmick of TP is definitely a deal breaker for a lot of people and I understand
untold vigil
It's delightful
fresh bane
but TP is a genuinely super good Zelda game
river veldt
the only thing i dont like about TP is the aesthetic it's so dark and murky and just not nice looking to me
fresh bane
Maybe nothing too stellar for some but definitely nothing super terrible you can say about it either, it doesn't have any inherent bad flaws
plus it has the best companion in any zelda game so there's that
river veldt
i didn't know Navi was in TP
fresh bane
Navi is not even the best fairy Tatl is so much better than Navi straight up
slim thorn
I think the main reason I haven't is because I keep getting told the best Zelda game is one of the others I didn't try, usually Majora's Mask or whatever
and I'm just completely tapped out on trying new Zeldas
fresh bane
I guess so, Majora's is a very good game, it's up to you which one you wanna play honestly, both are great
Majora's is probably better, OOT and Majora's are just different beasts entirely I think
Classics and beloved for a reason
slim thorn
of course I had no idea what Majora's was until after I played OoT
fresh bane
Majora's has a nice blend of linearity with player freedom
There's a lot of things you can experiment with and do as the player while still being on a set linear path
It's kind of incredible really, there's lots of room for discovering great stuff and it has a very unique tone and atmosphere even compared to Twilight Princess
visual hill
I'm completely lost on my OoT playthrough now, I'd need to spend a long time scrubbling through a walkthrough to figure where I am now
river veldt
i think the only 3d Zelda ive played is BotW 🤔
fresh bane
Twilight Princess is more overtly dark, it wears its grittiness and darkness on its sleeves, Majora's is a bit different, at some points it cuts pretty close to being kind of scary
Plus it deals with characters literally making terms with the fact they're about to die and they all react pretty humanely which is kind of too dark
slim thorn
that I don't even remember what "the wolf gimmick" is in gameplay terms is probably a good sign
fresh bane
I shared a fan remaster/HD texture pack earlier here if you ever feel like playing the original MM but want it to look a bit nicer than low res N64 visuals
river veldt
you can have Wolf Link as a companion in BotW if you have the amiibo
i wish there was a way to have a dog friend in base game without an amiibo but alas
fresh bane
I think wolf link is a cool gimmick but I like my games without gimmicks, just like I wish Sonic Unleashed didn't have the weird Werehog gimmick
Although Wolf Link is a bit more fun I'll say
untold vigil
I had zero issues with wolf link
fresh bane
It's just a lot more fun to just... be Link, and swing a söord, and have a shild 🛡️
river veldt
I had zero issues with wolf link
do people normally? ive never heard people complain about those portions
untold vigil
Midna is definitely best companion tho
fresh bane
The fun part is, whether you play Majora's or Twilight Princess, if you're going into either from OOT you'll be more than fine because both are directly linked
river veldt
i dont get the Midna hype ngl
visual hill
reject Midna waifu, return to Twilight
sour hill
Midna's good, but so is Ezlo and no one ever talks about Ezlo
fresh bane
Midna is pretty central to TP's story, she's a pretty interesting character in a game where other characters don't get to shine as much, even Zelda herself isn't much of the spotlight, she's charming and fun, she develops a sincere relationship with Link throughout the story and || at the end sacrifices herself/seals herself away to help and prevent something like the events of the game to happen again ||
river veldt
Ezlo is a bird hat which makes him automatically cool
fresh bane
She's got personal stakes in this story and that makes her a lot more interesting
kind of like Tatl in Majora's Mask where she's an infinitely more charming and more interesting version of Navi
river veldt
Navi is epic
fresh bane
Tatl has an actual unique personality and has a personal stake during this journey, she just like Midna also begrudgingly joins Link on this quest but ends up warming up to Link and also helping him out on occassions, even defending him
Navi never really reaches that same connection with Link or the player, she's a lot more like this entity that is just doing their duty or doing what they're told and she even fucks off without saying goodbye at the end of OOT
I don't hate Navi, I think the hate for Navi is way too exaggerated
untold vigil
I've never played OOT
fresh bane
...but Tatl and Midna are just way better companions and much more interesting by an infinite margin
slim thorn
I just kinda laughed at Navi nagging me (the meme is so real), but otherwise I mostly forgot she existed
river veldt
idk who my favourite is because as i said before ive only played the games where there aren't any companions
fresh bane
Other than the nagging which honestly you stop noticing after a while she is pretty forgettable as a companion
Most of the games I can think of ever since OOT have a companion, which ones don't have any?
visual hill
I just kinda laughed at Navi nagging me (the meme is so real), but otherwise I m...
Listen!
fresh bane
OOT has Navi, MM has Tatl, Windwaker has the boat, TP has Midna, Skyward Sword has Fi, BOTW has none
visual hill
(Ship of Harkinian allows you to toggle most of the nagging)
river veldt
Most of the games I can think of ever since OOT have a companion, which ones don...
Zelda 1, Zelda 2, ALttP, Link's Awakening, and BotW are the games ive played all the way through
sour hill
Most of the games I can think of ever since OOT have a companion, which ones don...
The Gameboy color games are the only ones coming to mind for me
slim thorn
I think Skyward Sword is the most-talked about non-retro Zelda that I haven't played, is that just because it's fairly recent?
sour hill
Probably
fresh bane
Anything prior to OOT probably doesn't have any but to be fair I barely know anyone who hasn't played OOT and any subsequent game after that
ssssure? SS released in 2011 if I remember correctly so it's fairly recent
ish
fresh bane
it's pretty infamous for the wii thing and extremely obnoxious motion controls
slim thorn
OoT was retro when I played it, it's one of the very few old games I went out of my way to play before it was easy to emulate every game that matters on the same PC I use for everything else, entirely based off reputation
sour hill
It's time for time
fresh bane
which was kind of mitigated with the switch version, and after that it just turned into a decent Zelda game
river veldt
SS has Fi who is epic and also who makes a cameo in BotW
fresh bane
the whole motion controls thing is so ingrained in that game's design that even button mapping for attacking doesn't help that much
but at least you're not flailing around like an idiot with a stick
slim thorn
ah, ok, that puts the final nail in that idea
sour hill
but at least you're not flailing around like an idiot with a stick
That's called being immersed 😎
visual hill
flailing is the worst kind of motion control because traditional controllers can't emulate it well
(you don't flail a DualSense around like a Wiimote)
river veldt
SS had the Loftwings
visual hill
but for games where you're expected to tilt the controller slightly, a DualSense works great
river veldt
and also made the Zelda timeline a thing
slim thorn
deep breath
river veldt
so it is good in my book
slim thorn
hammer the buttons and wiggle the sticks!
fresh bane
but yeah if you're looking for any zelda game to play MM or TP are great choices, if you want something more laid back and linear TP would be a good choice, Majora's is a good choice if you wanna dump some hours into a zelda game, there's looooaads to do in Majora's, it's a deceivingly big game
river veldt
play ALttP because it is the best Zelda game
fresh bane
loads of player freedom to experiment in ways you wouldn't think would work for a game of its time
slim thorn
ok cool that's the impression I was getting and a big part of why MM does not appeal to me right now
sour hill
Majora's best Zelda game
gaunt marten
Random flailing by definition has no information and thus might be reducable to just one button
river veldt
Ben Drowned
fresh bane
Fair enough, it can be daunting even if you're not planning to do all the quests and side stuff (which you should because they're legit fun and super interesting)
Hell some people can't even beat the main game without a guide
I don't blame them at all
fresh bane
flailing is the worst kind of motion control because traditional controllers can...
gyro aiming ftw
river veldt
if you don't get all the masks you don't get the true ending or something
slim thorn
you say that like it's unusual for Zeldas lol
fresh bane
I mean I can totally beat OOT without a guide but not Majora's
fresh bane
A lot of people are usually like ''I never finished MM as a kid because I just didn't know what to do''
it's a pretty open game
sour hill
if you don't get all the masks you don't get the true ending or something
You don't get a true ending, but you do get a treat
fresh bane
If you get all the masks you get || the deity mask ||
gaunt marten
A Scooby treat
river veldt
If you get all the masks you get || the deity mask ||
yes
fresh bane
which I recently got in BOTW through amiibos, I'm only missing the pants to get the full set
sour hill
You get to turn into an OP god and delete bosses
fresh bane
but only the bosses
slim thorn
to be clear I've yet to play a single Zelda that I could get anywhere close to finishing the man story of without looking up some critical step in a guide, usually in the first third even; if anything OoT was even worse than average on that point
fresh bane
Really? I used guides for OOT but that's because I'm a freak that likes to complete games on my first run and I wanted to get all collectables and hearts and stuff
river veldt
Ixrec have you played LttP
slim thorn
and, well, Zelda for me has always been this weird dichotomy of amazing dungeon ...
yes really, basically every time Zelda comes up I end up mentioning that ^this has always been my consistent experience with the franchise
again, unless you count Okami as a Zelda, it's basically what if that game design formula actually worked for me, and that's probably why I like it as much as the rest of the universe likes either OoT or BotW
fresh bane
interesting 
Well you'd definitely not enjoy Majora's....
I mean, if that kind of stuff makes the game less fun for you
sour hill
You could try Zelda II. I don't think you'll like it, but you can try it
fresh bane
Because Majora is exactly that but turned into 100
slim thorn
I tried Zelda I once and got bored soooooo fast lol
sour hill
That's cause Zelda I is boring
fresh bane
Link to the past, link's awakening and link between worlds are probably the best choices for classic zeldas
zelda 1 is... well it's zelda 1 you know?
slim thorn
well yes but you're not allowed to say that about NES games
untold vigil
I like the Oracles
fresh bane
gaunt marten
That's cause Zelda I is boring
Don't say that in front of Captainmario
Yeah, Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages are great
untold vigil
They're the only ones I 100%
gaunt marten
fresh bane
Link Between Worlds is the most recent classic Zelda if you don't count Link's Awakening remake and I recommend that one a lot
river veldt
That's cause Zelda I is boring
banned
untold vigil
. . . I'm gonna be honest, I will never play a randomizer
slim thorn
if I replayed games more than once a decade, I might've done a randomizer by now
untold vigil
I like these games but not enough to just play them again but slightly different
gaunt marten
That's fine
slim thorn
wait what
sour hill
I like how you can steal in link's awakening
river veldt
you can!
fresh bane
I remember you mentioning another indie game that did the artstyle better or something a couple days ago
I think it was you anyways
slim thorn
oh right I brought up Tunic
fresh bane
yeyey
river veldt
. . . I'm gonna be honest, I will never play a randomizer
me neither
slim thorn
speaking of not Zelda but it worked for me
fresh bane
so that's why I recommend Link's Awakening if you wanna classic Zelda experience, it's really good, and it has the cutest Zelda design
Sorry, Link Between Worlds
brain fart
river veldt
i was about to say LA doesn't have Zelda lol
river veldt
yeah
untold vigil
Tetra is the cutest Zelda, sorry to say
gaunt marten
me neither
Why not?
slim thorn
I don't even know if I've had the "classic Zelda experience"
sour hill
me neither
Dark Souls randomizer was very fun for me
gaunt marten
https://tenor.com/view/a-link-between-worlds-zelda-princess-nintendo_3ds-the-leg...
This gif needs a nigel thornberry face
river veldt
LBW has the cutest Zelda which also means that LttP has cutest Zelda
fresh bane
Eh ever since OOT Zelda has been mainly a 3d franchise so not a lot of people have that classic Zelda experience
Thankfully LBW and LA exist but I don't know if they reached the same popularity as the 3D zeldas
river veldt
ive only had classic Zelda experiences i guess
fresh bane
But hey at least they're trying to keep the classic experience alive! (looking at you, Capcom)
slim thorn
Ixrec — 11/09/2022 10:39 PM
Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Breath of the Wild are the Zeldas I've finished
does Minish Cap count? 
sour hill
Yes
fresh bane
Ssssure? Yeah why not
river veldt
MINISH CAP MENTIONED 🗣️🗣️🗣️
fresh bane
It's a neat game
untold vigil
Minish cap! I did finish that one
fresh bane
I remember playing that one but never getting too far into it, but I hear it's one of the really good 2d zeldas
slim thorn
although I should probably also clarify I didn't 100% any of them by any reasonable definition of 100%
sour hill
I liked minish cap a ton
fresh bane
eh most people don't 100% games
slim thorn
sure but the way this channel talks about Zelda, it makes me the weirdo
untold vigil
I only really 100% ones I really love, generally
river veldt
i 100%d Link's Awakening 😎
untold vigil
. . . Though I make an effort to 95% most ones I actually play
fresh bane
No you got it wrong, people like me are the weirdo freaks that like to 100% games even if the game becomes unfun and loses all charm
you are the normal one by enjoying the game at your own pace and being content with playing mostly main content
untold vigil
but the last 5% is usually the part that sucks
sour hill
No you got it wrong, people like me are the weirdo freaks that like to 100% game...
You should 100% Mother 1
river veldt
why would you ever tell someone to play Mother 1
slim thorn
in general I only care about 100%ing as a goal if it's a Metroidvania and thus is designed around making 100%ing actually fun to do at the end
sour hill
why would you ever tell someone to play Mother 1
It's fun to do bad things
river veldt
sour hill
Also I've actually beaten mother 1 so I feel like I get to say it
river veldt
is it good
sour hill
No
river veldt
LOL
thorny loom
Play earthbound
slim thorn
it's been crash-happy for at least 2-3 of the days I watched, super weird
river veldt
ive heard that Mother 1 has that NES game twang
thorny loom
Then laugh as nintendo basically relegated it to smash bros
river veldt
i mean i dont think Shigesato Itoi wants to do any more Mother games so what are they supposed to do
sour hill
ive heard that Mother 1 has that NES game twang
You could say that
thorny loom
Do what capcom did
untold vigil
I think it was sort of a product of it's time, anyway
I doubt any mother game made in the modern era would be anything like waht people want out of it
thorny loom
Make one anyone and wait to inform the creator it was already have way done
slim thorn
man I haven't touched VA-11 Hall-A in days, or started Death's Gambit
thorny loom
untold vigil
Besides, like
river veldt
god i would not want to see a Mother game without Itoi that sounds bizarre
slim thorn
it's like I'm back to having zero energy for games
untold vigil
god i would not want to see a Mother game without Itoi that sounds bizarre
What about Undertale
river veldt
hmmmmmmmm
thorny loom
I just finished replaying company of heros
river veldt
im a fake Undertale fan because i completely forgor it existed for a second
slim thorn
I regularly forget Undertale exists because I've read/watched/played none of the things that inspired it or were inspired by it 
it begins and ends within its own little pocket dimension for me
river veldt
you should play Earthbound
slim thorn
nope
river veldt
why
slim thorn
I won't enjoy it
river veldt
why
sour hill
When I played through mother 1 with my friend, we were playing the version that has a walk-faster button, but I kept telling my friend not to run because that's not the designer's original vision
river veldt
i should probably play Earthbound huh
sour hill
I like Earthbound a lot
static bluff
slim thorn
explain your emoji
river veldt
i told Onosa i was going to play EB like 2 years ago and i still havent
static bluff
It's weird to suggest someone play a game they haven't played
young creek
dw about it MrOnosa said he would play Mother 3 six years ago
static bluff
look i've played it a bit
river veldt
i have actually played Mother 3
static bluff
does the game have a god naming section like earthbound does?
young creek
you name the player if that counts
visual hill
regarding Navi pestering you too much in Zelda, imagine if you had Autumn Blaze as a companion in a Zelda game.
static bluff
;Twiverycontent:
snow gorgeBOT
I don't know that command.
sour hill
I'm the one playing the game
No you see we had to have the true experience of being a kid in Japan who got the Famicom version for Christmas and has literally nothing else to play for the next three months
gaunt marten
True. By walking everywhere it would take you three months to play
slim thorn
I have never played a game that would not have been better with a quick save/save state feature
thorny loom
dark souls
thorny loom
I use save states on older games that use passwords instead of save screens
Mostly megaman games
slim thorn
the feature existing does not mandate save scumming, or even encourage it when the game is actually fun to play as intended
static bluff
omg a super reaction!?
young creek
I disagree I do think game devs have to protect players from themselves in many cases
gaunt marten
Skyrim is one game that has quicksaves and is made worse by their existence (because the feature was implemented badly.)
visual hill
would be interesting to see emulators have a feature to limit how many save states you can create per hour
there's already Hardcore Mode for retroachievements, but it disallows savestates entirely (and also cheats, slow motion, etc)
slim thorn
almost every game I've ever emulated, I end up finding a place where save states are useful to work around something dumb or time-wasting in the game itself, even if it's as simple as a misplaced checkpoint
(also I've watched Tale do so much reloading in P3P and P4G)
river veldt
Onosa do you have the official Ness shirt
static bluff
I have no official EB merch sadly
I do have that nifty Starman refrigerator magnet Ω tho
thorny loom
Probably next to impossible to find cheap nowadays
static bluff
It absorbs PP
sour hill
Probably next to impossible to find cheap nowadays
They aren't making official ness shirts? Smh
static bluff
that's a little earthbound joke there, hope you enjoed it
slim thorn
at least these days most games have enough autosaving that they never completely ruin themselves with a single design mistake or instance of terrible player luck
but lots of older games did
young creek
The only game ive played where I felt save states was justified was Zelda 2
river veldt
They aren't making official ness shirts? Smh
young creek
what a dumb game
gaunt marten
In Skyrim, autosaving and quicksaving are both implemented in a way that breaks scripts and does a load of other problems if you load back into the same cell.
river veldt
it comes with a Franklin Badge also
slim thorn
well that's just a bug lol
gaunt marten
There are mods that fix the bug by rerouting the quicksave and autosave functionalities and doing a manual save every time
sour hill
what a dumb game
skill issue
slim thorn
anyway, ideally zero quicksaving is needed to get through a game enjoyably, but for a myriad of reasons that can't always be avoided that's just not how most games work
gaunt marten
Yeah. Just remember to keep backups to avoid softlocking
static bluff
Ya know what game did saving really well?
slim thorn
do any games have only a single save slot these days?
static bluff
Undertale
slim thorn
like, I figured that went without saying
sour hill
do any games have only a single save slot these days?
Technically dark souls has only one slot per character
untold vigil
It's wierd
visual hill
Ya know what game did saving really well?
Daikatana
untold vigil
Because like, obviously savescumming is sorta discouraged with the DS format
gaunt marten
do any games have only a single save slot these days?
Most quicksave games have one quicksave slot!
visual hill
that reminds me, in Anachronox, you "pet" TimeMinders to save your game.
Though you can choose to be able to save anywhere, which I prefer
slim thorn
...I meant for all saves
gaunt marten
Well if you have quicksaves why would you save manually?
slim thorn
untold vigil
To have multiple slots, specifically 
gaunt marten
Right, to have backups
untold vigil
3 quicksave slots should be standard tho
visual hill
Deus Ex players: "No, I need 20 save slots. I need to know the alternate timeline where I throw a pizza onto this NPC"
thorny loom
Cali make deus ex 4 already
untold vigil
That is typically the kind of game I need slots for yes
thorny loom
@gaunt marten you might like this https://twitter.com/scionti_design/status/1644537499514028033?s=46&t=bVzXPIZvXYyJJoEkCfgMsQ
untold vigil
long level can't-be-seen stealth Games
sour hill
Deus ex having no automatic saving was so annoying. I'd always forget to save
fresh bane
Deus Ex players: "No, I need 20 save slots. I need to know the alternate timelin...
I don't know if the newer Deus Ex games do it but I love save games that just throw you at exactly the same point you were while you made that save
slim thorn
huh?
untold vigil
Isn't that how saves should work?
gaunt marten
<@68799960375623680> you might like this https://twitter.com/scionti_design/stat...
That's pretty nice. I'm kind of bored by those recreations in unreal engine, though
fresh bane
A lot of saves tend to just be like checkpoints where it reloads the map or reloads from the beginning or a certain point
but in Deus Ex from what I remember you save the game and it's like a quicksave
untold vigil
Oh
slim thorn
...because the save was made at the start of the map?
untold vigil
I'd consider any save that doesn't load exactly at that point to be "the bad kind of save"
gaunt marten
No, some games deliberately don't store your progress in a level, and then when you load the save they start you over
It's fine in some games.
fresh bane
Well I can't think of many games that do save files like Deus Ex, STALKER or stuff like Fallout New Vegas
slim thorn
I mean, if there's a save button you can click on, and reloading that save sends you back to something other than where you made the save, that's so broken it's equivalent to not having manual saves at all
fresh bane
I don't know how to explain it properly but I'm sure it makes sense
slim thorn
I can't recall ever seeing that
are you just talking about having manual anywhere saves instead of designated save points?
gaunt marten
Yes
fresh bane
Yeah, kind of?
gaunt marten
It's just not feasible to store and restore the entire state of a game, and so those games re-initialize the whole level and place you at the start.
fresh bane
The kind of game where you can save anywhere at anytime no matter what and if you load it'll be like rewinding back to that moment
slim thorn
ok, well, that's what I meant by quicksave/save states 
whether you need a second click to pick a slot or it's literally only one button isn't nearly as important as being able to do it wherever
fresh bane
Yeah games like Deus Ex from what I remember treat save files like quicksaves in that sense where it stores everything exactly everything
it doesn't re-initialize the whole thing or send you to the last checkpoint it sends you straight back to the exact point where you made that save file like it was a quicksave, I like that
slim thorn
and IME every game that lets you save whereever (and is on PC) also lets you quicksave since it is just skipping one button press so there's no reason not to
untold vigil
That's an odd thought to me, because unless the game is built stupidly you should always be able to take a perfect snapshot of whats happening
slim thorn
right, even when emulating old broken games I've never seen save states not work
fresh bane
Most modern games don't do it like that unless I'm somehow entirely wrong on that but I don't think most modern games do it like that
also I'm talking about saves not quicksaves
slim thorn
I thought we cleared up the terminology already
gaunt marten
Taking a perfect snapshot of everything happening in a game can be done if you're fine storing the entire memory the game is using right now
fresh bane
It's probably not feasible for that specific reason I assume
slim thorn
even games with save points still have to save a LOT of information about the state of the game when you reach that point, these days I think it's mostly a design question
fresh bane
Yeah but not to the point where say, if you were shooting a gun while you were saving the game the next time you load that save the gun will finish firing, or if an npc was talking and you saved the game the next time you load that save the npc will continue that specific dialogue, you know?
slim thorn
...well, I've never tried that
I'm still not clear why we're on this weird tangent about broken save implementations
like, nobody is arguing games should be buggy
fresh bane
I'm not saying anything about broken or buggy I'm just saying I like that way of handling save files
I think they're neat
sour hill
Games should be buggy
fresh bane
fresh bane
I agree
slim thorn
some were disagreeing
wind stump
Now this is what you call using book smarts!
wind stump
games should be buggy, it's a fundimental right
gaunt marten
The way most games space is just by storing the relevant set of flags and variables people would care about and then reconstructing the state of the game from scratch using those.
slim thorn
I mean, that's not even space saving, that's just the distinction between "game state" and the pixels on the screen
saving anything that is not the game state would be broken anyway
gaunt marten
The thing is it doesn't perfectly restore the state of the game. It just gets close enough
fresh bane
Right, most games kind of re initialize everything and restart everything but of course they still keep track of your progress and stuff, which isn't broken or buggy in my opinion it's just a different way of doing it
gaunt marten
Like in Europa Universalis 4, where every time you reload a game, AI countries and their opinion of you can subtly change because of how complicated that part of the code is
slim thorn
I... have no idea what distinction you're trying to make now
fresh bane
I'm not making a distinction I'm just adding onto what Flitter said
I'm agreeing with em
gaunt marten
What I'm trying to say is that the relevant game state can be very arbitrary and a lot of games don't perfectly preserve it
slim thorn
Like in Europa Universalis 4, where every time you reload a game, AI countries a...
this isn't a bug?
fresh bane
:flutternod:
gaunt marten
It's certainly not considered a bug by the developers
astral field
EU4 can also have its AI break and stop functioning randomly, which only is fixed by reloading. Countries will either get really stupid or just flat out stop working right.
slim thorn
...welp, they would not last long in my job
gaunt marten
The AI state for hundreds of countries is just too complicated to properly handle for a small dev company like Paradox
fresh bane
The only downside of the type of save files I'm talking about is that if the save file you load up is somehow softlocked or you happened to save at the exact point you are getting killed or something then that save file is completely doomed I remember that happened to me on Deus Ex once and I had to load a previous file to save the playthrough
slim thorn
well, sure, but again, nobody was arguing for only a single save slot
you're literally repeating yourselves now
fresh bane
I'm not replying to anything in specific I'm just talking about it openly
astral field
The best game advice I ever got was from KotoR 2, when it says "Save often and in different slots" in its save screen.
fresh bane
Oh god I remember that happened to me on Kotor too it was hilarious
I got softlocked in a great way actually because I skipped an entire fight that was impossible for me to win
slim thorn
it's very rare that I need it these days, but I still use every slot a game gives me
astral field
It is just flat out good advice in general for games.
fresh bane
all the enemy AI just completely froze and I escaped unscathed
it's not a bug it's a feature!
astral field
KotoR2 is unfinished and very buggy, but it's still a great experience.
Mods can fix most of the issues, even one endorsed by the devs that includes the cut content.
fresh bane
It's a shame that Kotor's remake is kind of in dev hell right now, at least it was suspended until further notice
astral field
That is disappointing to hear.
fresh bane
Can't remember exactly what happened, I seem to remember members and leadership were shifting around a lot, people were leaving the project or getting fired and eventually the game got... pretty much shelved until further notice
astral field
Oh yikes. That is the death of a project, usually.
visual hill
Yeah games like Deus Ex from what I remember treat save files like quicksaves in...
late-game saves are 100 MB
I've once filled my SSD because I had too many parallel saves, since the game defaults to creating a new save instead of overwriting the previous one
fresh bane
slim thorn
now there's a problem I've never run into
visual hill
maybe Revision makes the saves thiccer, I don't know
astral field
I had to go and delete all my CK3, EU4, and Stellaris saves because they were clogging my hard drive.
visual hill
but I expect vanilla saves to be thiccer than a sniccer too
fresh bane
I didn't know save files were that dense
astral field
I did have several years of them.
visual hill
I'm not sure if they use compression, that would probably help a bunch at the cost of slightly slower saving/loading (if you choose an algorithm optimized for speed)
astral field
It was not uncommon for me to have over 50 saves for a single campaign, if it was a long one.
slim thorn
maybe, most game saves are so small compression's not worth implementing
I think I run through 30-50 saves just playing through a typical AAA game with save points
fresh bane
I think the only games where I actively used a bunch of save files are survival horror games my Signalis , RE1 and RE3 playthroughs I used pretty much all available save files for some reason rather than rotating between 2-3 save slots
rose rose
What I want in video games is unlimited save slots. Too often they are arbitrarily limited.
slim thorn
same
but not having quicksaves/everywhere saves is a far more common issue for me than running out of slots
wind stump
... maybe i should have saved in more than one slot as I was shutting off Vesperia for the day
rose rose
I run out of slots in basically every game I play. I end up just rotating through them and overwriting the oldest one and in practice this is fine but I’d still rather not.
wind stump
c'est la vie
dapper cedar
My brother has been playing KOTOR 1 on my Switch and I’m convinced half the time spent playing the game has been spent either saving or loading files
And even still he found a point where you can get softlocked
untold vigil
Where are we now?
wind stump
God the fact the game doesn't let me save anywhere is a pain
slim thorn
same, I'd rather not, but I also never need to load something >10 saves ago
wind stump
Where are we now?
some tower or other
untold vigil
some tower or other
Pirate boys tower?
wind stump
Yarrr.
rose rose
same, I'd rather not, but I also never need to load something >10 saves ago
It’s true.
slim thorn
whereas almost every game without quicksaves makes me wish it had them at least once
untold vigil
Judith is pretty spicy hot
wind stump
Goddamn, I never disagreed with Rita before but her trying to nuke her right after saving our asses
Bad girl.
-5 wife points
untold vigil
Nah I stan her
wind stump
I stan her too
untold vigil
Rita just cares more for megic artifacts than people it's fair
wind stump
but she needs to chill
slim thorn
resists the urge to google them
wind stump
Tales of Vesperia characters,
slim thorn
I know
river veldt
why are people floral all of a sudden
slim thorn
new nitro feature, check your user settings
rancid herald
it's spring
wind stump
clearly we need the lesbian power couple
wind stump
it's spring
HARU DESU YO
rose rose
The winter decorations were better
wind stump
river veldt
new nitro feature, check your user settings
i dont have nitro
rancid herald
hopefully for the summer we'll get melting icons
wind stump
wind stump
Mushtale
Woo hoo!
gaunt marten
Back on the topic of videogame saves
Games tend to implement saves one of three big ways:
1-Saving the entire memory
Games that do this simply preserve the whole state of the game. Everything they can to perfectly reproduce what you were doing when you were playing. Typically only emulators do that for savestates, because otherwise every single save will be at least the size of the RAM taken by the game.
2-Saving relevant flags and some gamestate
Most games are in this category. The developers choose a set of flags which if saved can allow them to reconstruct the parts of the game state that players would care about. Stuff like exact facing of 3D models or whether a character is moving is sometimes discarded because it's not really worth the effort to preserve. The line for this is very arbitrary, and can vary from something like the Binding of Isaac (which restores all your items and personal stats but starts you over from the last room you completed) to Rimworld (which stores every flag and variable ever, and as a result has pretty big saves.)
3-Saving only flags.
This is useful for simple games, where each playthrough is short and you typically don't need a complicated save. Risk of Rain does this. It does not save anything about the state of the game. If you quit, you start over from scratch. It only saves your unlockables and your achievement progress. Included in the post is my save for Risk of Rain 1, which is only four kilobytes in size
gaunt marten
Well it's called a savestate
slim thorn
right, emulator save states are saving the state of the emulator, not of the game
gaunt marten
That makes sense
slim thorn
"game state" is a programming term that's specifically about excluding all of the irrelevant details like thread scheduling and garbage values and currently cached texture/audio files that are implementation details separate from a complete description of where the game's logic is currently at
a huge part of good software design is learning to recognize what belongs in your state objects and what doesn't, not just because it keeps save files small, but because basic correctness and halfway decent performance are impossible if you aren't actively thinking about what your state objects should look like throughout development
gaunt marten
Yes. It's a very commonly flubbed part of save implementation
slim thorn
then replays and multiplayer make it interesting 
Factorio Friday Facts had a lot of fun stories about that
gaunt marten
Yes! Determinism is one quality that becomes a very important distinguisher between 1 and 2.
Factorio is solidly built and designed, using the second strategy, but they still suffered from a lot of desync and broken replay issues because it's so tricky to get that right
river veldt
Flitter does Factorio have crossplay
slim thorn
it's a ridiculously hard problem to solve in general
sacred grove
My "favorite" form of save file is Undertale/Deltarune's plain text file containing a long list of unlabeled values that have to be in a specific order
gaunt marten
Factorio does have some degree of crossplay, but it does not support mods with crossplay
river veldt
i see
gaunt marten
My "favorite" form of save file is Undertale/Deltarune's plain text file contain...
That's 3!
slim thorn
tbf it would've been shocking if it did
gaunt marten
It's not a technical limitation. It's mostly that Nintendo doesn't allow modding
Windows and Linux is supported and almost all mods work. It's just that you're not allowed to have mods on consoles because fuck you
river veldt
do you and Chip play with mods
gaunt marten
Yes, we play with Space Exploration. It's a mod that makes you visit alien planets and process exotic resources
river veldt
ah oke
wind stump
untold vigil
right, emulator save states are saving the state _of the emulator_, not of the g...
I was gonna use this as an example before I got bored, those shenanigan ways of perfectly synching up two emulators to play multiplayer games online
slim thorn
okay, let's finally do more bartending
our CEO believes he's an alpaca
yep, this is the nonsense I'm here for
slim thorn
his corgis made a mess of the bar last week, we get to make fun of him
gaunt marten
They're just uncorginated
slim thorn
why am I getting an achievement, she just showed up and gave me a thing out of the blue
gaunt marten
You have to have done a specific set of actions on the previous day to get this achievement on day 4
Specifically, serve all three drinks correctly
slim thorn
oh, that's easy then
dense crypt
asses creed
slim thorn
reading stuff in a second language is so weird sometimes
"...now available to ordinary wealth abolishing persons"
wait wtf does-
oh that means consumers, duh
gaunt marten
Wealth abolishing person is a great way to put it
mossy flume
$42 for complete edition of AC: Valhalla
Good deal
quiet swift
Valhalla is a deceptively long game
slim thorn
mine or AC?
quiet swift
AC
I just did one extra content thing (the ireland stuff's main campaign) but that + base game story still ended up being like 120 hours
I did do a fair bit of base game's sidequest but not exhaustive. The whole thing though just felt like it dragged sooooo much
mossy flume
Valhalla is a deceptively long game
Every AC game is deceptively long, tbh, but that trilogy especially
rose rose
I think I never did the last sort of post-game part of Valhalla, because I was too underlevelled and was not interested in grinding up
Also it broke in such a way that, while I own the DLC, it will not let me play it, so whatever.
quiet swift
Every AC game is deceptively long, tbh, but that trilogy especially
valhalla more than any other by what felt like a significant margin
fresh bane
I remember hearing people saying that Valhalla was maybe too long, even by AC standards
quiet swift
I remember hearing people saying that Valhalla was maybe ***too*** long, even by...
I do like long games. I enjoy story most in games, honestly. But there are some that overstay their welcome
Two most recent that come to mind are AC:Valhalla and the Xen part of Black Mesa
river veldt
gonna 100% Doom Eternal's main campaign 😎
which for me entails all collectables, weapon masteries, and suit upgrades
quiet swift
Persona continues to be not subtle at all
chilly mural
I wouldn't want it to be anything else
random steppe
Wait until you get the persona that's just ||a dick on a chariot||
quiet swift
random steppe
I am not joking
untold vigil
quiet swift
fresh bane
Oh wow seems like Ada's VA in RE4R got super harassed over her performance voice acting in that game and deleted all IG posts and her social media
I thought all the criticism towards her performance in the game is pretty valid but apparently she straight up received all sorts of harassment completely unrelated to the VA work
river veldt
wow that's like Star Wars fan levels of childish
untold vigil
. . . It's literally everywhere
river veldt
hm?
untold vigil
I mean like
Women working in video games have been harrassed off the net for thirty years now
This isn't new or even really noteworthy
river veldt
yeah :(
fresh bane
I have to wonder where these people even come from really, because as someone who spends time in the fandom even with Star Wars you never really often see people throwing around these types of comments, even with Ada in RE4R a lot of people were just disappointed because her performance was serviceable in a game where all the other actors are amazing at their job, but not one time do you ever see anyone mock or insult her or throw racist and sexist comments
but apparently she's received a ton, where do these people even come from?
untold vigil
. . Do you want an honest response?
fresh bane
Yes?
untold vigil
It's usually the same people just in different contexts
untold vigil
For example: people talking about it in mane, where they don't want to be banned, and those same people making throwaway accounts to harass
quiet swift
Yaay, beat shadow Rise and Teddie and o lawd it's 4 am time to sleep
weak river
https://kotaku.com/elder-scrolls-fan-art-artist-credit-dlc-tumblr-twitter-185032...
I'm a little late to the party, but Zenimax did put out a statement about this:
https://twitter.com/TESOnline/status/1645445647783395328?s=20
proud warren
well that's good
icy crescent
Neat
hasty patio
Good to hear. I hope the compensation is well and that they figure out how to minimize this type of thing into the future.
graceful bridge
quartz pawn
My Setup! How Good Does It Look?
quartz pawn
turn some lights on its good for your eyyyyes
i like the dark
uneven epoch
but your eyyyyeeees
rugged flax
i already have awful vision anyways
quartz pawn
damn rip
crude crow
I have found the greatest video game of all time
pretty sure this is years old but it killed me xP
wind stump
river veldt
same for me
static bluff
oh i thought it was in the process of rendering, lol
wind stump
yeah i have no idea what happened
but the most important part is the crown
VICTORY ROYALE
visual hill
https://twitter.com/JakeSucky/status/1645531449951653893
it's not the first time this happens but it's super rare indeed
astral field
I can't see that going over very well.
rose rose
I would expect Discord will comply
It’s not like it’s trying to provide anonymity, particularly in a manner resistant to subpoenas
young creek
wow thats a big rock guy
dense crypt
a rock and stone guy
fresh bane
Like I have no words, dude just used up his RNG for life.
Yeah no kidding, this dude used up all his accumulated luck for the rest of his life 
I love that despite being 2023 everytime something crazy happens in an online game like that insane shot the reactions are still the exact same, just a bunch of people immediately going ''OOOOHHH!!!'' ''OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!'' on the mic, complete with at least 1 super shitty mic
fresh bane
https://kotaku.com/zelda-tears-kingdom-leak-nintendo-lawsuit-discord-1850320375
I would hope whoever leaked this knew this would happen, unless they somehow thought they'd be safe from Nintendo's legal clutches, they'll go through mountains with their lawyers to uncover the identities of anyone who leaks anything at all from them 
good luck random leaker, you'll super need it
bleak lintel
The guy posted the entire book, even if it wasn't a leak he'd be in trouble with how much of a spotlight he put on himself.
rancid herald
Oof
fresh bane
Was it the entire thing? The article mentions it wasn't the entire thing
bleak lintel
It was every page in the book.
fresh bane
The posts include images from the 204-page artbook that will come with the collector’s edition of the game. They quickly spread to other Discord servers, various subreddits, and beyond. While a ton of original art for the game was in the leak, it didn’t end up revealing much about the mysteries surrounding Tears of the Kingdom players have spent months speculating about. There was no real developer commentary in the leak, and barely any spoilers outside of some minor enemy reveals.
wait, how do you know it was every page in the book? 
bleak lintel
I have seen things.
river veldt
ive looked at the book
young creek
I will personally report everyone who has read the art book to Reggie (I have him on speed dial)
gaunt marten
And I will personally report everyone who didn't to the leaker so they can read it
teal sonnet
I expect even saying the nintendo name in vain for their lawyers to show up at my house kidnap me and my family
gaunt marten
Desktop Dungeons is 75% off. If you own it, you also get the Rewind version for free.
@static bluff may be pleased to hear it
static bluff
neat!
wind stump
what's the difference between normal and special edition?
grim stirrup
neat, i should pick that up, i already own it on itch from a bundle, but rewind will probably be worth 
google says special edition dlc+bonus challenge things but the source is a random 11 year old reddit post
river veldt
i got all collectables, weapon masteries, and suit upgrades in Doom Eternal 😎
https://imgur.com/a/YTtNIjM
thorny loom
Yay
river veldt
i only have 4 milestones left for main campaign but idk if i'll do them
2 of them require playing the entire campaign again each
i might do them but i might not idk
oh wait 3 of them do
1 requires completing the campaign with only 1 suit upgrade, one requires do extra life mode with 10 lives, and the last requires beating the game on Ultra Nightmare
visual hill
I'm playing in UV and it's already hard enough for me
river veldt
i feel like i could make it through the entire game without dying except for the Icon of Sin fight
he always fucks me up
mossy flume
The only games that I can reliably run through without dying are Metroid and Mass Effect, I think.
thorny loom
Yeah. I can go through me1 on insane without dying. Its really easy
river veldt
The only games that I can reliably run through without dying are Metroid and Mas...
i made it through LA without dying 😎
Link's Awakening
quiet swift
Wolfenstein, this week
rancid herald
i made it through LA without dying 😎
this is really funny
fresh bane
''I made it through LA without dying and all I got was this lousy t shirt''
also installing doom eternal again right now, gonna see how this works since last time I kinda stopped playing and didn't bother with the dlc because the game would get laggy enough that it would be unplayable for me because it annoyed me how slow and stuttery it would get
quiet swift
Oh no
fresh bane
river veldt
what leaked
mossy flume
I looked at some summaries and, uh, it’s quite concerning. And it was just sitting there for a month before anyone noticed
mossy flume
what leaked
A classified top secret report which thoroughly detailed the US intelligence community’s spying operations on the war in Ukraine, detailed predictions on when Ukraine will run out of ammunition down to the day and a lot more that I shouldn’t elaborate on here
river veldt
mossy flume
It is a dire report
fresh bane
This isn't a meme it's legit military plans and reports on an active war
river veldt
was it on the official Minecraft Discord or a smaller one?
mossy flume
It details how the NSA, FBI, CIA, and even NRO have been operating
fresh bane
I mean that aside we also don't want to discuss classified material like that even if only superficially
mossy flume
A smaller one, I believe
river veldt
i dont know what NRO means so i'll assume it means Nintendo Really rOcks