This is everywhere
#cve-rs: Blazingly π₯ fast π memory vulnerabilities, written in 100% safe Rust. π¦
sonic tusk
foggy badger
it's hitting every corner of rust
sonic tusk
LMAO
frank pier
hm? i have ublock and it doesn't do that
oh right custom filters
anyways here's a screenshot
HAHAHAHAHA WHAT
sonic tusk
LOL
zinc folio
my body wake up at 4:20 and that's the first thing I see :ferrisClueless:
sinful fjord
what?
glossy hatch
anyways here's a screenshot
The fuck 
glossy hatch
HAHAHAHAHA WHAT
The double fucking fuck
sinful fjord
ublock blacklist filters
yesyes, but why this website specifically?
foggy badger
github reposter
sinful fjord
Can you send it as plaintext pretty pls
foggy badger
send what?
sinful fjord
the filter(s)
foggy badger
sinful fjord
ΓΆ
foggy badger
the list of filters https://iorate.github.io/ublacklist/subscriptions
frank pier
π₯³ π
sonic tusk
how is it still going up lmfao
i was just gonna share that
we might actually hit 1k
glossy hatch
I'm confident that I'll wake up tomorrow and we'll be beyond that
foggy badger
It'll be the main rust cultural product for like 2 days!
though it's hard to estimate, we are from a pretty biased perspective
sonic tusk
my brain when we get multiple seconds of prime time
frank pier
hey i think we've got a pretty slick logo
if y'all are okay with it i can add it to the readme
@sonic tusk @glossy hatch thoughts on this?
sonic tusk
hellll yeah
frank pier
rendered output
hmm lemme add a gradient to the background
yessssss
no i think i like the black background more
mockups
@glossy hatch any comments on this? i think brightshard is fine with the logo
(sorry for double ping but i'm excited to get this out :P)
glossy hatch
damn
sonic tusk
approbd
foggy badger
poof
sonic tusk
frank pier
@glossy hatch sorry for the yet another ping but someone has installed cve-rs from crates.io and the transmute demo doesn't work; can you release a new version to crates.io?
or allow us to access the crates.io site or smth
sonic tusk
should we swap out that link
foggy badger
isn't the link only in one comment?
frank pier
yeah in like src/lifetime_expansion.rs
sonic tusk
and the help message in the cli and i think also the explanation
frank pier
mhm
but if the rust team/reddit mods/everyone agrees that the github issue isn't for casual discussion then people won't discuss it
at least, the majority of people won't
sonic tusk
yeah but that's clearly not everyone
kinda think we should swap it out for an internet archive link
foggy badger
chill with that
frank pier
if you think that's the right decision go for it
frank pier
I don't think the comments are from the repo though tbh
some of them definitely are
more of them are just discussing stuff
sonic tusk
maybe
foggy badger
which would be the argument for us keeping them in there
sonic tusk
also there's already a safe transmute crate??? bruh
foggy badger
but it's fine to caution
frank pier
also there's already a safe transmute crate??? bruh
fake_static? yea
but it didn't exploit the bug to the level that we did
foggy badger
i mean it's been a thing for almost 10 years
sonic tusk
o well
frank pier
it's more of a gimmick than anything
the exploit
i doubt there would be any legitimate uses for it in code and it's near impossible to accidentally stumble upon
sonic tusk
the legit use is me being able to say my code is 100% safe 
frank pier
lol
sonic tusk
so close
WOOOOOO
still more stars than updoots
it's existed for four days
and we already hit 1k stars
sonic tusk
spey rackin up folowers
narrow imp
time to make a pull request to fix a typo or something to be part of the illustrious new namtao prodigy project
narrow imp
pog
glossy hatch
a double borrow with the lifetimes &'a &'b, and single borrow, with the lifetime &'b.
I'd use the same phrase shape for both:
a double borrow with the lifetimes &'a &'b, and a single borrow with the lifetime &'b.
narrow imp
I made my contribution :)
If I had any actual time I totally would love to extend this further into nonsense
Makes me wonder if you could do FFI with this...
glossy hatch
oh god
foggy badger
yknow it's getting pretty concerning seeing the CI being queued for 11 hours
narrow imp
It's fine
Anyways I wonder if you could do FFI interactions outside of unsafe blocks from this
Pass a value to the overflowed buffer, sick the C program on it and get UB nonsense :)
Then change the value again in safe rust. Check again with C, or even modify with C. Then check with safe rust...
The possibilities are derpy
glossy hatch
yknow it's getting pretty concerning seeing the CI being queued for 11 hours
I think I'll just cancel all of them
CI has to be fixed
molten cave
it was posted in another server I'm in
also jeez 1k stars
woops forgot to censor a pfp
lethal crane
I think all the code in cve-rs should be licensed in an extremely restrictive license
that way it's illegal to implement the CVEs in your own code
/j
sinful fjord
Toby has solved bugs, everyone!
Yipee
molten cave
Hackers hate them! Learn how they wiped out all software vulnerabilities with one simple trick
lethal crane
it's so obvious
terse minnow
Rust doesn't want me to implement Into<Box<T>> π
terse minnow
Guys I've invented the most powerful rng
sinful fjord
Lmfao
terse minnow
sonic tusk
buj what the actual fuck did you do π€£
terse minnow
Ye you have to manually deallocate Refs
terse minnow
Guys I've invented the most powerful rng
That means that this test actually leaks memory
sonic tusk
are you sure the ref won't deallocate when it drops?
terse minnow
Yes
terse minnow
Not anymore :)
terse minnow
I think a test for a feature that essentially replicates C-style pointers having memory leaks is perfect
sonic tusk
this is amazing
I wasn't following that it was a box before
so the pointer gets dropped but the memory allocation is never deallocated
me code reviewing a PR on a meme repo:
terse minnow
Lol
frank pier
yo we got a yt vid made about cve-rs! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfMpIsJwpjU
sonic tusk
NO WAY LOL
frank pier
<@358960666238910465> sorry for the _yet another_ ping but [someone has installe...
also spey have you seen this?
if i'm pestering you too much let me know lol
glossy hatch
Dude it's not stopping πππ
glossy hatch
yo we got a yt vid made about cve-rs! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfMpIsJwpj...
LKJSNDBFLKJNSFBDJKNLSNDFBDB
glossy hatch
also spey have you seen this?
Ah yeah I had seen it, must've forgotten :v
I'll look at cve-rs properly in a few hours
frank pier
aight, no worries π
terse minnow
yo we got a yt vid made about cve-rs! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfMpIsJwpj...
They don't talk about the neat part where we did transmute :(
sonic tusk
yo we got a yt vid made about cve-rs! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfMpIsJwpj...
explained it really well daggum
I didn't even know about the variance stuff
foggy badger
logarithmic?
terse minnow
This is a 100 deg angle
terse minnow
Ye cuz we're running out of Reddit Rust users
But the capitalist economy demands infinite growth, so I propose cve-rs t-shirts and a subscription service
foggy badger
just wait for a video by some ytber that upsets everybody
sonic tusk
But the capitalist economy demands infinite growth, so I propose cve-rs t-shirts...
hellll yeah
merch
cve-rs.shop when
terse minnow
terse minnow
wait can you see my reviews on your pr?
Oh wrong tihng
Wherever it is, I can't find it
we already had a crate published on crates.io before which used this bug to transmute in safe code, see #25860 (comment).
this issue is a priority to fix for the types team and has been so for years now. there is a reason for why it is not yet fixed. fixing it relies on where-bounds on binders which are blocked on the next-generation trait solver. we are actively working on this and cannot fix the unsoundness before it's done.
It's staying for a while
glossy hatch
ye
terse minnow
Hoi Spey
foggy badger
a given
glossy hatch
wait can you see my reviews on your pr?
I can't, did you make a comment and forgot to press Review Changes
frank pier
cve-rs.shop when
$USD 1/year
terse minnow
(it's a lie)
frank pier
hm? no it's legit $1/yr
terse minnow
The lower price is just for the first year I think
frank pier
no if it does that then it'd say "renews at" like this
terse minnow
huh
frank pier
retail seems to be "this is what our competitors are offering" or whatever
glossy hatch
Apparently the domain cve.rs is taken and under construction??
terse minnow
π€·
glossy hatch
Domain name: cve.rs
Domain status: Active https://www.rnids.rs/en/domain-name-status-codes#Active
Registration date: 06.11.2021 02:17:20
Modification date: 30.10.2023 21:32:30
Expiration date: 06.11.2024 02:17:20
Confirmed: 16.11.2021 01:11:22
Registrar: Mainstream Public Cloud Services d.o.o.
Registrant: Individual
Administrative contact: Individual
huh :v
terse minnow
Makes sense
frank pier
Apparently the domain `cve.rs` is taken and under construction??
quite a lot of the shorter names are parked because they're valuable
some of them are actually used for stuff
sonic tusk
> we already had a crate published on crates.io before which used this bug to tr...
YIPPEE
sonic tusk
I can't, did you make a comment and forgot to press Review Changes
That is probably why, lemme see if I can do it from le phone
I can't ugh
glossy hatch
le phone 
terse minnow
nikita
terse minnow
Yes
sonic tusk
yippee
why doesn't it just post the comments automatically
the finish button is really hard to find
glossy hatch
the finish button is really hard to find
Really?
terse minnow
π€·
glossy hatch
idk feels intuitive enough to me
sonic tusk
I'd left the code view
and it's only in the code view
cause i didnt see it while i was still in the code view
terse minnow
I think PhantomData should be Rc actually
terse minnow
Guarantees Send
terse minnow
Guarantees `Send`
Actually, was that Rc?
glossy hatch
but Arc uses unsafe, no?
sonic tusk
i think virtually all of them do...
glossy hatch
I think Box::new doesn't use unsafe
sonic tusk
is box send?
glossy hatch
idk
terse minnow
Only if T is Send
sonic tusk
arc, mutex, rwlock
terse minnow
Arc is always Send and Sync
terse minnow
A barrier enables multiple threads to synchronize the beginning of some computation.
Cool ig
sonic tusk
yeah id never even heard of that one
is there a reason we're leaving old issues open?
or just haven't taken the time to close them
terse minnow
π€·
frank pier
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
sonic tusk
gonna go close em lol
sonic tusk
spey did you see this: https://github.com/Speykious/cve-rs/pull/19
frank pier
now i'm not one to extrapolate, but......
frank pier
we got as many stars in 1 week as noboilerplate got in 6 months π
sonic tusk
big funny energy is actually insanely powerful
frank pier
i mean
would this be considered as a viral github repo
or is it like too small
it hasn't completely taken over rust discussion yet
keyword being yet
glossy hatch
now i'm not one to extrapolate, but......
LSKJFNBGLSKDJNBFLKSJDNFBKSDBF
sonic tusk
I think it kinda did... primeogen covered it, it was #1 on the subreddit, and now a yt vid
frank pier
I think it kinda did... primeogen covered it, it was #1 on the subreddit, and no...
the yt channel is quite small tho
sonic tusk
tru
glossy hatch
would this be considered as a viral github repo
Viral in the Rust community for sure
It can be scoped :p
frank pier
if we get someone like fireship to cover this in like a code report or whatever we could 100% consider it viral
sonic tusk
lmao
glossy hatch
But like even in the relatively new languages sphere it's quite viral
I saw it shared in the Zig discord
sonic tusk
LOL
frank pier
lmao oh snap
sonic tusk
actually insane
sonic tusk
zig devs, not rust devs
understandable
how big is a c short
u8? u16?
i think u16
frank pier
i16
sonic tusk
thx
frank pier
unsigned short is u16
sonic tusk
ye
frank pier
but yeah seems like some people are tired of it already...
sonic tusk
it is unsigned i just forgor to say that 
frank pier
lol fair
sonic tusk
but yeah seems like some people are tired of it already...
lmao
lethal crane
now i'm not one to extrapolate, but......
Tris is the second-most popular person in this discord /j
sinful fjord
I am the first :3
sinful fjord
who are you?
I'm me!
terse minnow
We need some politician to join this server fr /j
terse minnow
Casenc at Toby's fr
sinful fjord
I'm in their walls :3
terse minnow
I'm in their walls :3
lethal crane
I don't have walls
sinful fjord
Then whose house is this
sonic tusk
hey why am i hearing weird noises from the walls
sinful fjord
Damn it, wrong house
Did my GPS get it wrong? Why am I in the wrong continent?
I thought it was built in Rust
Wait...
*squints*
Special thanks to
cve-rs!
Damn it
sinful fjord
(You should add Toby :3 )
glossy hatch
We can choose for it to mean the original creators of the project, or the current maintainers, I usually opt for the former because it makes sense to distinguish "author" from "maintainer" (and "contributor")
(kinda wish there was a maintainers field in that regard)
On a different note, @sonic tusk I think it'd be cool if you made a PR of the docs branch so we can leave comments there
So turns out, on WASM it still doesn't segfault.
Like 0 is literally a valid address
So anyways I made it segfault 
narrow imp
So anyways I made it segfault <:sunglas:1022110742054445089>
I can imagine you going "huh... well okay segfault now asshole" punches wasm
sonic tusk
On a different note, <@687429932774981682> I think it'd be cool if you made a PR...
then i gotta merge it ughahdkfjlekwjqr
and vscodium is already open to bs not cve-rs and i gotta pull and then find more things to complain about so it sounds really hard to do
:c
glossy hatch
and vscodium is already open to bs not cve-rs and i gotta pull and then find mor...
it's ok you can do it later xd
sonic tusk
id say let me finish this ide driver first but that's what I've been stuck on for the past multiple weeks
(remember when i said id have disk reading maybe done by the end of the week like 4+ weeks ago? aged like fine milk)
oh wait actually we redid segfault to use transmute right? gotta rewrite that whole section
also spey what did you do to make it work in wasm
glossy hatch
also spey what did you do to make it work in wasm
I used usize::MAX instead of null
dead simple but it's funny lmao
sinful fjord
I used `usize::MAX` instead of `null`
Do u128::MAX /hj
glossy hatch
lmao
sinful fjord
Would it warp around to being in bounds
glossy hatch
(I can't, since that's not the type of an address)
glossy hatch
glossy hatch
cve-rs be like
sinful fjord
<a:nooooo:1141452227077230672>
Sometimes I wish I had nitro
)
sonic tusk
I used `usize::MAX` instead of `null`
bruh what that's a thing
frank pier
~~Would it warp around to being in bounds~~
if you mean mem::transmute::<u128, &u8>(u128::MAX) it will truncate it since it's putting 128 bits in and taking 64 bits out
sinful fjord
...Spey I have an original idea now π
glossy hatch
π
sinful fjord
safely transmute an u128
into a usize
is it useful? no it'll just truncate
but
it would be funny
frank pier
soooo transmute copy?
glossy hatch
;compile
fn main() {
println!("{}", u128::MAX as usize);
}
fiery minnowBOT
glossy hatch
idk it's already pretty safe :v
sonic tusk
transmute that to a string 
sinful fjord
is there a non-utf8 string
frank pier
is there a non-utf8 string
CStr i think
sonic tusk
no
frank pier
or &[u8]
glossy hatch
can the compiler bot use crates
I don't think so
sonic tusk
you can have raw bytes
sonic tusk
I even did that when I was emulating a basic cpu
are you a cpu god
im trying to figure out how to do time rn for bs
glossy hatch
I'm gonna release 0.6, any last edits?
sonic tusk
because you apparently have to sleep when you read from disks...
frank pier
are you a cpu god
im trying to figure out how to do time rn for bs
hardware interrupts with external timers
glossy hatch
Oh wait, the CI!
frank pier
yeah if you rely on cpu cycles you'll get inaccurate measurements due to pipelining and branch prediction
sonic tusk
:/
frank pier
Oh wait, the CI!
i think the issue is that it's trying to find a machine that runs both ubuntu and windows at the same time???
sinful fjord
are you a cpu god
im trying to figure out how to do time rn for bs
no, sadly π
it was a "computer" made out of pure logic gates and did not have an OS or a BIOS or anything of the sort
it just had an ALU, an IO system and some memory
frank pier
also spey have you published a new version yet
sonic tusk
i think you explained this before and i forgor
frank pier
what's an alu?
arithmetic logic unit
glossy hatch
i _think_ the issue is that it's trying to find a machine that runs both ubuntu ...
Either way I know how to make a good CI
frank pier
thing that does calculations in a cpu/gpu
sinful fjord
Airthmetico-logic unit
glossy hatch
so I'll do that rn
sinful fjord
It's the bit that does the math
sonic tusk
okie
frank pier
Either way I know how to make a good CI
aight
sinful fjord
It's the bit that does the math
The processing part of CPU lmao
sonic tusk
i _think_ the issue is that it's trying to find a machine that runs both ubuntu ...
no i think gh will just do one then the other
frank pier
no i think gh will just do one then the other
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
coral crypt
do i have to use interrupts
If you're not out of BIOS interrupt mode (16 bit mode?) yet you can use interrupt 1Ch for the timer tick. can't remember how many bloody cycles it is but.
sonic tusk
The processing part of CPU lmao
me casually forgetting the most important part of the cpu
sonic tusk
If you're not out of BIOS interrupt mode (16 bit mode?) yet you can use interrup...
the thing is im in between 16 and 64 bit mode
and using interrupts pushes it into 64 bit
and then it no likie
coral crypt
the thing is im in between 16 and 64 bit mode
32 bit. Oh so you need a GDT and IDT then
coral crypt
ahh ffs I forget which one it is
sonic tusk
i skip 32 bit mode lol
coral crypt
GLHF
sonic tusk
and now im trying to do timing... osdev wiki says to read from i/o a certain number of times because that uses like 10ns each time but idk how up to date that is
coral crypt
for maximum customer retention
the Apple approach
frank pier
yes there is
coral crypt
are you just writing to the disk sequentially?
frank pier
otherwise you wouldn't be able to write any files
coral crypt
Oh god
sonic tusk
i put 0xdeadbeef in between each file
coral crypt
i put 0xdeadbeef in between each file
that's cursed. like acutally legit cursed
frank pier
is a filesystem a narrower definition
sonic tusk
also might wanna change channels
coral crypt
Yeah
glossy hatch
do you realize
that we have more stars on the repo than messages in here
sonic tusk
bro what the actual hell 
sinful fjord
quick
someone make a spambot
I'll start
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
sonic tusk
sinful fjord
(I am consuming much haskell content)
glossy hatch
spam :: [Integer]
spam = [1..]
(Just like Haskell, I'm too lazy to actually do it )
narrow imp
So true bestie
glossy hatch
Funny that the only test that works is the one that tests if the task failed successfully
πΏ
well that sucks
frank pier
i see
glossy hatch
Anyways it works now 
glossy hatch
can you set up something to run `cargo test`
It already does it
frank pier
:D
glossy hatch
https://github.com/Speykious/cve-rs/issues/21
and its called cve and not rustve for a reason - only c has cves, rust cannot have cves as it is not c ( \π’ )
I AM SO DEAD
sinful fjord
they're so right π
when is the RIIR happening for cve-rs
glossy hatch
best interaction ever
sinful fjord
the rocket emoji lmao
limber salmon
2k stars1!!!!11!!!11!!!!!
sonic tusk
almost there
frank pier
noooo it's falling off!!
glossy hatch
It's following the path of my osu! rank progression
sinful fjord
noooo it's falling off!!
I was going to make a program that got all of the timestamps and plotted a curve of best fit
but
max 100 at a time
And it's 3am (don't have the brain to send multiple requests)
If somebody smarter could do that, that'd be sick
limber salmon
noooo it's falling off!!
O(sqrt(n))
terse minnow
Ferris plushie gofundme :)
frank pier
https://github.com/Speykious/cve-rs/issues/22
i'm writing a funny comment
gimme a bit
sonic tusk
beautiful
sonic tusk
so you can apparently get llvm errors in rust
I guess it generated invalid LLVM bytecode
narrow imp
wild
sonic tusk
i found another way to implement transmute
IT'S FASTER LMAO
(benchmarked old code) ok hm not faster for larger sets
*let's see if i can cook *
limber salmon
let him cook
terse minnow
so you can apparently get llvm errors in rust
Holy shit
sonic tusk
im going to bed, will look at it more tomorrow
I need a pointer type I can get the data back from
like Box
but ideally not on the heap for performance
sonic tusk
yea lol
lethal crane
(the white one hurts my eyes <:spey:1191101424168337490>)
Racist /j
coral crypt
Fixing rust by exploding it
Didn't rust itself find loads of esoteric bugs in LLVM because what rust was doing had a habit of exploding LLVM?
sonic tusk
what's funny about these LLVM errors is that I believe they're LLVM's type system picking up that shit ain't right, even when rust's fails to
like even it knows what I'm doing is absolute crap
lethal crane
(benchmarked old code) ok hm not faster for larger sets
Isn't it the opposite in the screenshot and it gets better at the dataset size increases
sonic tusk
that screenshot is from me running the old code
so the old code was much worse for smol types and a bit better for big types
terse minnow
*kills you*
You WON!
You gained 12 GOLD and 184 EXP!
Your LOVE increased!
lethal crane
lethal crane
*hehehe he didn't get my 13th gold*
I eated it before it could get to my inventory
sonic tusk
:c
terse minnow
lethal crane
No
terse minnow
sonic tusk
why
terse minnow
catssssssss
sonic tusk
transmuting refs instead of types just beat std
downside: cannot return a type, must return a reference
upside: we're faster than std
terse minnow
Lol
I mean, can we not make it return a type with that?
Like, there are containers like Option<T>
Transmute &mut Option<T> into &mut Option<Y> and call .take().unwrap()
sonic tusk
ill have to experiment
sonic tusk
what's funny about these LLVM errors is that I believe they're LLVM's type syste...
the type has to compile to a pointer or we get this and llvm catches on
was just luck but still funny to beat std lol
terse minnow
π€·
sonic tusk
Transmute `&mut Option<T>` into `&mut Option<Y>` and call `.take().unwrap()`
yes, yes i can
Gnuplot not found, using plotters backend
cve_rs transmute f32 -> i32
time: [426.52 ps 427.74 ps 429.01 ps]
change: [-4.0439% -3.8022% -3.5494%] (p = 0.00 < 0.05)
Performance has improved.
cve_rs transmute_old f32 -> i32
time: [15.899 ns 15.913 ns 15.926 ns]
Found 2 outliers among 100 measurements (2.00%)
2 (2.00%) low mild
cve_rs transmute_ref f32 -> i32
time: [428.21 ps 428.91 ps 429.59 ps]
change: [-0.6503% -0.4648% -0.2801%] (p = 0.00 < 0.05)
Change within noise threshold.
Found 1 outliers among 100 measurements (1.00%)
1 (1.00%) high mild
std transmute f32 -> i32
time: [428.43 ps 429.07 ps 429.66 ps]
change: [-0.5139% -0.3491% -0.1758%] (p = 0.00 < 0.05)
Change within noise threshold.
Found 1 outliers among 100 measurements (1.00%)
1 (1.00%) high mild
cve_rs transmute [f64; 1024] -> [u8; 8192]
time: [1.0530 Β΅s 1.0552 Β΅s 1.0575 Β΅s]
change: [-23.689% -23.525% -23.361%] (p = 0.00 < 0.05)
Performance has improved.
cve_rs transmute_old [f64; 1024] -> [u8; 8192]
time: [1.5666 Β΅s 1.5718 Β΅s 1.5768 Β΅s]
cve_rs transmute_ref [f64; 1024] -> [u8; 8192]
time: [1.3709 Β΅s 1.3738 Β΅s 1.3766 Β΅s]
change: [-0.8230% -0.5580% -0.2983%] (p = 0.00 < 0.05)
Change within noise threshold.
std transmute [f64; 1024] -> [u8; 8192]
time: [1.3717 Β΅s 1.3748 Β΅s 1.3778 Β΅s]
change: [-1.1822% -0.9016% -0.6312%] (p = 0.00 < 0.05)
Change within noise threshold.
Found 1 outliers among 100 measurements (1.00%)
1 (1.00%) high mild
on the bigger dataset I'd say that's pretty reliably faster than std's transmute
that's fucking incredible
it's 2:33 am so ill document and push this tomorrow if spey and creative are ok with it
and then we can advertise speed too :3
(for the record in case I didn't clarify already this uses a completely different soundness hole in rust, meaning we have 2 "cve"s now)
lethal crane
downside: cannot return a type, must return a reference
upside: we're faster tha...
does the speed stay if you just deref the transmuted ref?
lethal crane
```
Gnuplot not found, using plotters backend
cve_rs transmute f32 -> i32
...
there s so many numbers here I can't read :3
they bounce off of my silli littl brain uwu
glossy hatch
and then we can advertise speed too :3
This is literally blazingly fast
I can't even
We achieved the impossible
glossy hatch
This warrants a blog post
"How we wrote a blazingly fast and safe implementation of transmute"
terse minnow
"Blazingier fasterer: Beating Rust's transmute"
lethal crane
"How we wrote a blazingly fast and safe implementation of `transmute`"
(isn't normal transmute also safe?)
foggy badger
no
glossy hatch
It's unsafe
foggy badger
I'm so confused by how the transmute is faster though
limber salmon
IT'S FASTER LMAO
LMAOOO
limber salmon
"How we wrote a blazingly fast and safe implementation of `transmute`"
safe?
glossy hatch
Yeah safe
limber salmon
unsafe != not safe
glossy hatch
...that's exactly what we mean though
It doesn't use unsafe
If you want to be pedantic, I'd say that unsafe != unsafe
In our code, nothing is unsafe but pretty much everything is unsafe
sonic tusk
I'm so confused by how the transmute is faster though
Me too LOL
You'd think it'd have like no overhead.
sonic tusk
Blazinglier π₯π₯ fasterer ππ
...than std
foggy badger
I think it'd be funny if you break character to ask why this is faster in the code itself lmao
or hmmm
"We don't know why it is faster, however we have not ruled out satanic interference"
sonic tusk
btw this is the new bug im exploiting: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/57893
I filtered issues by unsound and just went digging lmao
terse minnow
We love bugs
sonic tusk
there's a few more that give 'static lifetimes but this in particular lets us transmute quite easily
terse minnow
I love dropping bangers
glossy hatch
rename new to alloc
terse minnow
Thanks, Rust
terse minnow
How is this allowed?
sonic tusk
lmfao
sonic tusk
I want to implement Into<T> for T and AsRef<T> for T using transmute
would be really funny
sonic tusk
LMFAO
I wanted to make a trait called trans that's implemented for everything and just casts the value
actually I'm going to
terse minnow
Then implement trait Right which unimplements Trans
sonic tusk
pub trait Trans {
fn transition<T>(self) -> T;
}
impl<T> Trans for T {
fn transition<T2>(self) -> T2 {
transmute(self)
}
}
LMFAO
pub trait Trans {
fn transition<T>(self) -> T;
}
impl<T> Trans for T {
fn transition<T2>(self) -> T2 {
transmute(self)
}
}
pub trait RightWing: !Trans {}
if only negative trait bounds were supported π
glossy hatch
lmao
terse minnow
No inclusivity for right-wingers, conservatists and fascists
We are too woke for that
sonic tusk
avg rust programmer
terse minnow
fr
foggy badger
oh and are we gonna keep the previous impl for transmute somewhere?
(i liked it quite a lot)
sonic tusk
I also like it
glossy hatch
It's in the commit history if anything :v
sonic tusk
I was thinking about moving it to lifetime_expansion?
glossy hatch
nah
sonic tusk
so we have all the lifetime_expansion bugs in there and all the transmute bugs in transmute
terse minnow
slow_transmute
transmute
blazingler_fasterer_transmute
sonic tusk
yeah that too
sonic tusk
`slow_transmute`
`transmute`
`blazingler_fasterer_transmute`
unironically. would be really funny
would be even better if we had a third exploit for transmute
glossy hatch
I was thinking about moving it to lifetime_expansion?
ok, moving what to lifetime_expansion 
if it's transmute then I don't get why
terse minnow
I call this shit which one is the right file versioning system
sonic tusk
the current transmute fn
glossy hatch
yeah I don't get why
glossy hatch
why could it not be in transmute.rs
terse minnow
Commit to backwards compatibility
sonic tusk
it could be 
could name it transmute_old ig
I was just grouping it with the exploit it used
glossy hatch
I think it'd even make the funny more concise by having slow_transmute, transmute and blazinglier_fasterer_transmute in the same file xD
foggy badger
probably the best
foggy badger
maximize the funny and the education
terse minnow
The very first one?
glossy hatch
kind of want to find a third implementation
the slow one is the stack spamming
terse minnow
I think there were 3
sonic tusk
sure lmao
terse minnow
discord_developer_transmute
glossy hatch
sonic tusk
electron_transmute
terse minnow
That's just an insult to Electron
sonic tusk
what's funny about these LLVM errors is that I believe they're LLVM's type syste...
I'm going to have to document this
which I find so funny
sonic tusk
That's just an insult to Electron
bro it has a 50mb hello world
glossy hatch
yes
terse minnow
At least it doesn't lag
sonic tusk
what are you talking about π
terse minnow
Discord is a laggy mess
sonic tusk
all electron apps perform so badly
for me
especially discord but also things like vscodium
terse minnow
Take any Electron app
sonic tusk
mattermost is awful
terse minnow
Discord performs worse than all of them
terse minnow
Zed is chad
sonic tusk
once they support more platforms
glossy hatch
I can feel it too and I have 16 GB of RAM with a Ryzen 9 CPU
sonic tusk
once they support more platforms <a:nooooo:1141452227077230672>
and allow per-project rust-analyzer settings, I really need this >:(
terse minnow
...or at least bring it to usable state
glossy hatch
Dude I've been getting "50 MB for a hello world is nothing" kind of braindead takes on Twitter lately
terse minnow
Dude I've been getting "50 MB for a hello world is nothing" kind of braindead ta...
Oh god...
sonic tusk
I can feel it too and I have 16 GB of RAM with a Ryzen 9 CPU
32gb, ryzen 7 iirc, massive ass gpu
glossy hatch
Do people even know what a megabyte is anymore
terse minnow
I wanted to make a video where I was making hello world more and more complex
sonic tusk
I used to think it wasn't that bad either
until I made my os
and now my entire bootloader is less than 30kib
like all the stages
and now I'm aware
terse minnow
It became so bad I had to fix shit for like 6 hours
sonic tusk
especially after having to go and figure out what was adding more space to the bootstrapper
terse minnow
I had tools which were hard to link
I had tools which straight up didn't work
I had tools which didn't work with each other
In fact, at the end I added a thing that would manually patch some file in node_modules to fix module loading for some random package
sonic tusk
I used to think it wasn't that bad either
because it is unfortunately just more normal now...
terse minnow
It was that fucked
sonic tusk
idk how anyone uses js
terse minnow
Would be a good video ngl
sonic tusk
it's madness
terse minnow
Basically I made a react electron typescript es module hello world with (broken) localization
sonic tusk
too many js terms in one sentence for me to understand
terse minnow
Also it used babel and webpack and probably some other shit
sonic tusk
like you're not even running on the cpu and yet it's SO FUCKING COMPLICATED
terse minnow
Oh fuck I forgot to add tailwind into this
sonic tusk
because everything's trying and failing to fix core issues ig
okie well anyways i need to actually get out of bed
terse minnow
Imo tailwind is fucking ridiculous
sonic tusk
so im gonna head out but ill read other msgs later
terse minnow
Sure, it's find for like
Tiny fixes in css
But holy shit if it's overused it becomes 500 times worse than css files
glossy hatch
btw @sonic tusk did you stop watching Computer Enhance
terse minnow
π
sonic tusk
yeah ill start watching again
terse minnow
I remember when I tried using next.js
Basically I
Created the project
Looked at it
Never looked at it again afterwards
The file structure was already too overwhelming for me
Like
This web server thing has more files than a tiny operating system example
And I'm not talking about node_modules
It's all the files that stare at you right in the face
I remember starting my own thing back in the day just so I can have the very basic thing I want, and while the way I delivered it was... a bit too edgy
But eh, we all were kids
The point still stands - those huge frameworks are too overwhelming to work with
And it gets worse when you need to add some server-side stuff
A lot of those frameworks just don't have server-side in mind
Meanwhile the thing I made had this integration right out of the box because the whole point of it was to just render an html page
For most stuff all I need is to just give somebody an html file
glossy hatch
yeah ill start watching again
I was just thinking, I've been wanting to follow Handmade Hero for the longest af time
Given that it'll have stuff like allocators in it, I'd want to do it in C instead of Rust just to learn stuff
terse minnow
Hoi
glossy hatch
Hello
terse minnow
what happened here
Ignore that giant block of text
glossy hatch
Nah there's just been a lot of discussion lol
frank pier
i see
glossy hatch
Given that it'll have stuff like allocators in it, I'd want to do it in C instea...
The problem is that it is very windows-specific in the first few episodes... But we can make it Linux-specific very easily now that I know how X11 works
cuz I ain't using SDL like handmadepenguin recommends >:v
frank pier
everything will be oxidised
lethal crane
The problem is that it is very windows-specific in the first few episodes... But...
X11 cring
π«π
frank pier
The problem is that it is very windows-specific in the first few episodes... But...
i mean if you want some pointers i have code that makes a window with no library here https://github.com/Creative0708/triangle-from-scratch/blob/main/src/main.rs
glossy hatch
i mean if you want some pointers i have code that makes a window with no library...
Wait, you didn't know? :p
https://github.com/loki-chat/lokinit
terse minnow
Guys, let's write a custom windowing protocol
glossy hatch
I'd love to work on lokinit again especially if there's one more guy interested hehe
(it's not complete but the basics work on X11)
terse minnow
I just wish wayland-client wasn't as fucked
lethal crane
I'm only interested if I'm given discrete tasks to fulfill π
frank pier
Wait, you didn't know? :p
https://github.com/loki-chat/lokinit
oh i did not, in fact, know
terse minnow
I'm only interested if I'm given discrete tasks to fulfill π
Pls fix that one ffi'd function from wayland-client, thanks
It's a static member of a class
glossy hatch
oh i did not, in fact, know
Does that kind of project interest you π
frank pier
depending on how small it is
glossy hatch
No dependencies
terse minnow
No dependencies
(lies)
frank pier
No dependencies
π€ yes it does interest me
glossy hatch
* that aren't ours
frank pier
are there plans for web support?
glossy hatch
Currently lokinit has one dependency on Linux: loki-linux, which I just made to separate our bindings from the main lib
terse minnow
are there plans for web support?
No
glossy hatch
are there plans for web support?
Not really
But honestly I kinda changed my opinion
keen radish
what... would windowing on the web do?
terse minnow
what... would windowing on the web do?
Create a canvas
keen radish
except like, spawn a canvas
glossy hatch
that's exactly what it would do
keen radish
wait answered myself thats exactly it isnt it
frank pier
yeah obviously a lot of stuff will be restricted
keen radish
that's exactly what it would do
lol fair
terse minnow
Yes
frank pier
but stuff like winit makes a canvas on web
terse minnow
That's also what winit does
glossy hatch
winit works on wasm too, it can handle mouse and keyboard events and everything
frank pier
winit is so heavy though
glossy hatch
YES
frank pier
i want my 20kb wasm bundle
glossy hatch
AAAAAAAAAAAAA
glossy hatch
I'm sorry laund I know you disagree but I have to relate to thinking it doesn't have to be this heavy lmao
terse minnow
We do technically depend on dynlinked libraries
glossy hatch
Yeah but that's fine since that's how it has to work on the OS
keen radish
I'm sorry laund I know you disagree but I have to relate to thinking it doesn't ...
i'll admit i'm wrong if you get 1 big project to switch (at this point that's likelier than loki getting done)
frank pier
the problem with web is that the way to render frames is completely different
instead of synchronously thread::sleep'ing a frame you have to pass control back to the render thread and wait for requestAnimationFrame() to call a function
an idiomatic solution would be to make everything async
but that introduces the need to include an async runtime
which is OVERHEAD AAAA PANIC
terse minnow
Smack an event queue π
sonic tusk
The point still stands - those huge frameworks are too overwhelming to work with
yeah, that's what is most bizarre to me about JS. It's so abstracted and yet still so crappy and overcomplicated.
sonic tusk
what happened here
i beat rust's standard library with a stick other compiler bug
keen radish
just include a nostd async runtime meant for embedded, they are usually very small
keen radish
but that introduces the need to include an async runtime
meant to reply this 
terse minnow
Optional async amr? :blurrytroll:
sonic tusk
2k games stars
foggy badger
Do we have enough juice for 3!
glossy hatch
We're getting stars BLAZINGLY FAST πππ
foggy badger
sonic tusk
I prefer this view:
aka: it's only been five days
we're definitely hitting 3k at some point
terse minnow
How's Tris doin'?
sonic tusk
it counts # of days instead of showing the calendar date
see it shows 5 days not 17-22
which just gives a scale of how fast this happened lmao
sonic tusk
LMAO WHAT
frank pier
oh also slope went back up
haha YES
frank pier
literally went from 13 to 1k in a day
yeah what contributed to that?
ig it went on primagen's stream and it went from there
glossy hatch
yeah what contributed to that?
The Reddit post in the Rust subreddit
It pretty much immediately caught on
And then the Primeagen
frank pier
ah yea
sonic tusk
er
sinful fjord
:0
sonic tusk
does `cargo test` work?
Yes
frank pier
????
sonic tusk
idfk dude
wait nvm
what
i swear it was passing before
ill work on it tonight idk
lethal crane
i swear it was passing before
does undefined behavior
undefined behavior breaks
TFW
lethal crane
Top 0 of tomorrow
lethal crane
Yea it would be
sonic tusk
*does undefined behavior*
*undefined behavior breaks*
TFW
Crying
glossy hatch
We're doing something Javascript dreams of being able to do
We're defining undefined
lethal crane
(undefined is defined as a member of globalThis
sonic tusk
I'm gonna work on it later
glossy hatch
coral crypt
Damn was just about to link that
glossy hatch
We got a few seconds of prime lmfao
coral crypt
I think he talked about it for a bit more one one his twitch streams
though I can't look through his vods cause they're sub only
sonic tusk
to steal spey's phrasing he was STEAMING over the code in one stream
trying to figure it out
then the next was this
coral crypt
Lol
did you manage to break Prime's brain with the unholy evil that is whatever the fuck it does? (I literally don't even know myself)
coral crypt
I wanna see that clip now lol
foggy badger
it was not all that interesting
frank pier
haha i don't think he saw the transmute though π
the other yt vid posted in the rust subreddit also forwent (forgoed?) explaining the transmute
frank pier
it's a trend at this point
also brightshard have you figured out the issue of the transmute bug
foggy badger
the coolest part ffs
sonic tusk
also brightshard have you figured out the issue of the transmute bug
my productivity has been i128::MIN all day
ive done
nothing
lmao
I guess I can just push what i have
let you guys look at it
frank pier
ehhhh not to main lol
another branch or just post a patch file in this discord thread
but yeah i'm down for looking at whatever you've written so far
sonic tusk
oh that's what i meant, other branch
frank pier
π
sonic tusk
i aint overriding our very precious, widely-used, stable code with this
frank pier
lol
Rust is designed to be memory safe. It does not permit null pointers, dangling pointers, or data races.
sonic tusk
frank pier
unfortunately there are no, like, news articles about cve-rs (yet!) so it's unlikely that the wiki page will change due to our revelation
glossy hatch
I don't want the wiki page to change tbh lmao
frank pier
never said i wanted it to
just thought it was funny that the rust wiki page is only very technically inaccurate
limber salmon
https://youtu.be/UA6u6QxMSqI
HOLY SHIT WE GOT ON PRMIE
foggy badger
in two separate streams
limber salmon
https://youtu.be/UA6u6QxMSqI
he ignored the do not give any trace back to the original author bit
foggy badger
yeah a bit funky
sonic tusk
> Rust is designed to be memory safe. It does not permit null pointers, dangling...
Everyone's familiar with C, and everyone knows C++.
Similarly, everyone knows about Rust. But have you heard of Rust++?
Rust++ aims to improve the Rust programming language, just like C++ definitely improved the C programming language. You see, Rust is an amazing language, but it has its flaws. For example, you cannot take any actions that might break memory safety in safe Rust. This is very limiting to safe Rust developers.
Rust++ removes these boundaries from the Rust language. Powered by cve-rs, it allows dangling references, null pointers, segmentation faults, buffer overflows, and all the other brilliant features that C and C++ have but Rust does not.
future project idea
we remake std and core with cve-rs
automatically extend the lifetimes of references to 'static
implement Into<T> for T
sonic tusk
limber salmon
Everyone's familiar with C, and everyone knows C++.
Similarly, everyone knows ab...
rust--
limber salmon
Everyone's familiar with C, and everyone knows C++.
Similarly, everyone knows ab...
For example, you cannot take any actions that might break memory safety in safe Rust
cve-rs: exists
sonic tusk
Rust++ is improving on Rust
sonic tusk
> For example, you cannot take any actions that might break memory safety in saf...
ok non-cve-rs rust
limber salmon
lmao
lethal crane
https://youtu.be/UA6u6QxMSqI
Privated
glossy hatch
This week in Rust
limber salmon
This week in Rust
holyy shitttttt