Philosophical blabbering and thought dump ( me, enatrage and tortus)

[lunar reef]

Just a derivative of a previous thread which happened after we switched topics

[past nimbus]

based thread

[lunar reef]

as you can tell, derivative is a word I keep using now lol

[past nimbus]

yep

[lunar reef]

btw any of yall into stoicism?

[paper vector]

That's true, there's no way of knowing what way of life would make me happiest, the best one can do is pick as best they can based on the information they have gathered

[lunar reef]

or self improvement too

[past nimbus]

yeah the idea of just do something, it is better than being paralyzed

but then the idea comes to what if being paralyzed will be better eventually

you can see the pattern here I think

[paper vector]

I try to be as stoic as I can

[lunar reef]

same

[past nimbus]

meh

I think it is kind of a renewed reactionary movement

In an overtly feeling based world

and society

[lunar reef]

Disagree

people jump on the stoicism wagon thinking it just means to ignore emotions

The core belief of stoicism is not even about emotions

[paper vector]

Yes, I think it's more about being in control

Not losing your cool in a debate and start insulting people just cuz they don't agree with you

For example

[past nimbus]

yes and the reactionary movement is all about that too

[lunar reef]

I would say it's about accepting that there's certain things you don't have control over, and that those things should not affect you, but you should only work on the things you can actually control

[lunar reef]

explain reactionary movement, I dont understand

[past nimbus]

ok I will give some context

[lunar reef]

Yep cuz Im not used to these terms, i dont debate often

[past nimbus]

first things first I am not saying that I am defending or holding one of these points

[paper vector]

Yes, exactly, don't dwell on things that are out of your control, like, it's pointless to stress that the world might end tomorrow

[lunar reef]

yeah, if you're on a ship and sinking, dont start screaming and shouting, Just either see if there's something you can do, and if you can't , accept it.

[past nimbus]

As you probably know, there is a movement popular in late 20th and 21st century, the movement which is all about making people feel right

this movement was a direct result of capitalism (again I am not defendin any point here)

[lunar reef]

Which movement exactly

[paper vector]

The woke?

[past nimbus]

there were various resultant things such as me too thing

yeah the woke and the radical progressivism

[lunar reef]

Oh so you're saying the stoicism we're seeing now is like a reply to the the movement that became popular in the 20th -21st century

I agree with that

[past nimbus]

yeah

[lunar reef]

I think that isn't stoicism in it's core values

[past nimbus]

a reply movement is called a reactionary movement

[lunar reef]

because true stoicism is one of the oldest philosophies (if I aint wrong)

[lunar reef]

I see

[past nimbus]

yeah that is why I called it renewed reactionary

[lunar reef]

yep

I was just unfamiliar with the wording, now I get it

[past nimbus]

modern stoicism is generally based on people like andrew tate as you know

[lunar reef]

what do you guys think about radical progressiveism, wokeism, etc with relation to first world countries?

[past nimbus]

while ironically being in contradiction with the original

[lunar reef]

yeah I think those are extremely cartoony

[past nimbus]

I hate it tbh

[lunar reef]

things tate says are true but he phrases everything in wording which sounds offensive to get the most views

[paper vector]

When it comes to stoicism I think it's something that's been present since forever,

[past nimbus]

in 80s it was fine like aged wine, it had a cause and such but now at this point it is a race about who is the most progressive

[paper vector]

Wokeism is incredibly self destructive

Well, just destructive

[lunar reef]

and so when you listen to what he says, its conflicting because it's such an offensive statement but if you dissect what he said and take the meaning in context instead of the generalization applied, it makes sense

[past nimbus]

I disagree he just uses basic gish galloping

[lunar reef]

gish galloping?

I don't follow andrew tate nor do I think he's some messiah or second coming, i'm saying he uses surface level information and phrases it to get the most views

[past nimbus]

it is like saying one thing that is true every now and then to make people believe that the rest is true, you make people not understand the rest by complicating it

[lunar reef]

Yeah that is what he does basically

well , not really exactly that

[past nimbus]

so it means that most is actually wrong

[paper vector]

He said it himself that he says it in more of rude way to get a reaction ouf of people and be in control of the conversation
I don't agree with everything he says, but a lot of it it's just basic common sense and "truth" that you can't really say he's wrong

[past nimbus]

yeah but his takes are goofy ah

[paper vector]

I think when it comes to Andrew Tate you have to be careful and be able to dissect what he says and take the best parts of it

[lunar reef]

what he does is, he says something extremely offensive every now and then, that upon first hearing obviously seems like it's sexist ( , any other label) but when you read into it and hear what he said before , you can see how he twists definitions and context to make you question yourself

[past nimbus]

this is why mostly he has a fanbase of around 14 yos

[lunar reef]

also I think he does it on purpose

[lunar reef]

Yeah I hate that part

[past nimbus]

yeah that is pretty obvious I think

[past nimbus]

which part?

[lunar reef]

yeah, the funny part is most people would say those facts but sugarcote it to not get cancelled, this guy takes objective facts that could offend wokists and puts chilli on it to make them even more offended

[past nimbus]

yep

pretty much the summary

[lunar reef]

Because 14 year olds believe anything, I'm in this other server (Hamza cult) where it's about self improvement, but people watch the content as content instead of valuable advice, and take all the flashy bits and make those part of their persona

[paper vector]

Yes, I personally don't like speech sugarcoated, I don't like it chillicoated either, but I'll take the chilli over sugar

[lunar reef]

lol same

[past nimbus]

that hits them hard

I really wonder what the results of our generation will look like

[lunar reef]

Yeah, like they speak about people being bots while they themselves are being "bots"

[past nimbus]

like how will we treat the society

that really troubles me tbj

[lunar reef]

really goes to show, no matter how much truth you speak, the people listening to you need some amount of wisdom for it to actually be beneficial

[past nimbus]

I think we are on a bad way

[paper vector]

Well if the woke takes over it's not looking very nice

[lunar reef]

otherwise they just repeat what you said because it sounded cool at the moment

[past nimbus]

reactionary taking over does not look nice either

[lunar reef]

Yeah agreed

[past nimbus]

the problem in our generation is we dont have middleway

like we cant take the good parts of both like previously done

we will take bad parts a lot too

[lunar reef]

because reactionary is created with the sole purpose of pushing against the woke radical movement, and hence loses it's main purpose if it takes the centre.

[past nimbus]

completely the whole point of it being bad, summarized professionally in a chill manner

[lunar reef]

same way that joker's character has no point if batman doesn't exist because his purpose is batman, he's obsessed with batman

[paper vector]

I'm not American but my gf is so I consume a lot of American political content and people are so incredibly devided, it's like everyone has to pick a side

[past nimbus]

oh it is really bad over there

like REAL bad

[paper vector]

Yea...

[past nimbus]

dividing a country in two is the worst thing that could be done

it is worse than a more than 2 party system

[lunar reef]

Im indian so most of this doesn't apply to me, but one thing I'm irritated with is that a lot of our movements are reflective of what's going on in places like america and etc where wokism is prominent, because we need actual feminism( other movements, etc) not this wokism bs

[paper vector]

It's so extreme both sides, people have to pick left or right and it's like they're not allowed to be middle or they swarmed by either side trying to 'recruit' them

[lunar reef]

because somehow it became about double standards about clothes instead of being about stopping rapists, child marriage, exploitation of women in marriage where they basically can't do anything they want

[past nimbus]

it is not like recruiting them tbh

it is more like both of them declaring the middle as the hidden other side

the agent

that is what I've seen so far

[past nimbus]

4th gen feminism for ya

[lunar reef]

like somehow, the feminism ( fake feminism) in my country forgot about all this oppression that's STILL happening and moved onto talking about why women should be able to sleep with 4000 men and stuff

[past nimbus]

holy

really?

[paper vector]

Damn

[lunar reef]

exaggeration

[past nimbus]

if that is really the case that is messed up

[lunar reef]

but that's from what I have seen

[past nimbus]

like you mean incredible exaggeration or you mean there are women who want to have 4 husbands?

[lunar reef]

it's as if people are starving in a country and they are protesting to stop bodyshaming

[paper vector]

Bruh

[past nimbus]

that is messed up

[lunar reef]

incredible exaggeration

[past nimbus]

oh ok

[lunar reef]

the fake feminists are not very abundant but they're a vocal minority

[paper vector]

In LA they're now saying calling people "homeless" is offensive and dehumanising, you have to say something like people without homes

[lunar reef]

lmao what

I heard LA started going downhill but I didnt know it was this bad

[past nimbus]

as if that makes difference

in Turkey it is kinda strange

like we have everything here that you can imagine of

every political agenda literally

say something and there is probably a party for it

it has come to a point where the opposition is literally paralyzed

the same dude has been ruling for 20 years

yet somehow it is still a democracy

[past nimbus]

they cant decide on one thing

[paper vector]

20 years, that's a dictatorship

[past nimbus]

yep

the economy has been going so downhill that we used to be like G11 I think? now we are G19

close to not be G20 country anymore

yet people still vote for him

hard to understand people

and this country is like the starting point of me thinking that democracy is useless

[paper vector]

I heard about the economy in Turkey facing possible collapse

[past nimbus]

it already did

1 usd used to exchange to 1.2 turkish lira in 2002

now it is 19.1 I think

going towards 20 steadily

infilation is off the charts literally, our statistical institution, which is basically propaganda, says it is around 70

[paper vector]

My mom went to Turkey a few months ago and she told me she could buy a big meal for like 2£ where it would normally cost over 10£ here in the UK

[past nimbus]

yep

I just ate normal food for like 300 try

which is 15 euros

it was like fast food

you can imagine the rest

[paper vector]

Corruption is so infuriating, the government is there to work for the people, yet they always try to use the power given by the people to control them

[past nimbus]

as you have mentioned it

our previous president's son had a cocaine route all the way from venezuela

literally

[paper vector]

Wow...

[past nimbus]

there was a dude who worked for them, a big mafia's leader that had connections with the government, they revealed everything

and I mean EVERYTHING

[paper vector]

And he's still in power?

[past nimbus]

yep

they just said those were all lies

lol

like there were even documents as evidence

[past nimbus]

they said dont trust an illegal mafia leader

[lunar reef]

I'm back

[past nimbus]

welcome

[lunar reef]

What happened

[past nimbus]

seems like you were kind of fascinated by the facts

he used bad words after I explained Turkey's situation lol

[lunar reef]

Oh lol

[past nimbus]

I am going to either canada or usa for uni tho

[lunar reef]

that's great

[past nimbus]

my applications are almost over

[lunar reef]

My brother goes to MICA majoring in illustration

[past nimbus]

and the decisions will come in after 3 months

[lunar reef]

He was an American citizen

[past nimbus]

how?

[lunar reef]

Unfortunately looks like for my Ug i have to do it in India

[past nimbus]

aren't you Indian?

[lunar reef]

My parents lived in America before , he was born there

[past nimbus]

hows your brother american

[lunar reef]

They then came to India

[past nimbus]

makes complete sense

[lunar reef]

And i was born here

[lunar reef]

But for masters def gonna be going abroad

[past nimbus]

where are your plans?

[lunar reef]

Uni in India

Looks like it

Gtg

[past nimbus]

ok

see you later have a good day

I got to go too I have some supplemental essays to write @paper vector

cheers guys

[distant pollen]

I like thought dumps, might drop by later HAH did you see what I did

I also like philosophical blabbering

so yeah ignore me

[spring walrus]

Does anyone have any thoughts on what might happen if there was open source Chat-GPT available free worldwide which was trained on academic literature and guide books and things that genuinely help people?

[umbral matrix]

I think OpenAI is a for profit idk

tho

[distant pollen]

i am just not comfortable how useful it is, kinda makes you get addicted, and when people get addicted it can be used as an instrument that controls what other people qualify as true or false

[distant pollen]

I mean I say to myself that if it becomes paid then I am ready to pay

as I mentioned earlier, it is addicting, it is addicting to access to fast and 'reliable' information

[magic flume]

Have you guys tried feeding it philosophical quotes and seeing the responses, seems like a good way to understand some of the more complex ideas for normies like myself

[vapid ice]

its fun trying to make it resort to inference or sit on the fence when you throw legal scenarios at it

[vestal cedar]

What is the solution for the matter-mind (alphabetical order 😉 problem?

[vestal cedar]

Can dialectical mathematics (cf. UIAO: Unity-and-Identity-of-Adjoint-Opposites) bridge res extensa and res cogitans (e.g. extended bodies and cohesive objects)?

[lunar reef]

it was more of a one time thing

[flat helm]

I think the core tenets are found in other various belief systems, like Buddhism.

Stoicism saying, "You cannot change the way things are, but you can change the way you react to them" has been said for awhile now. But I think the stoics were the ones who first publicly documented and made it clear they made this up first.

[lunar reef]

agreed

[flat helm]

Would u consider yourself a stoic

[lunar reef]

Not at all

but I am working towards adopting it's principles

is what I'd say

[flat helm]

Ah

Good to hear

[umbral matrix]

I am deeply perturbed by the lack of discussion happening in this space of 'Philosophical blabbering' regarding ChatGPT and AI in general. It is my hope that it becomes more flourishing with ideas and thought experiments of what AI means to our livelihoods and to us as a species.

[vestal cedar]

You asked for it... and here it is: First, what is intelligence? Intelligence is 'what intelligence is good for", which is how we define mathematical constructs; it's a refinement of functional definitions. The rationale behind the switch from

function to 'good for' is one can use a pen to scratch one's itchy back, but what figures in the definition of PEN is WRITING. Defining in terms of 'good for' is equivalent to, in terms of this pen example, answering: What is it that wouldn't be but for pen? Since we wouldn't be able to write without a pen, we define pen in terms of writing. Returning to intelligence, we ask, as a method of defining intelligence, what is intelligence good for, or equivalently, what is it that wouldn't be but for intelligence...

once we straighten intelligence, we can streamline artificial 😉

[rough vine]

health care quality and patient safety research

[toxic pagoda]

am new here whats going on here?

[quiet canyon]

Very happy to have found this off-topic. Life is stranger then fiction and nothing is more evasive then the search for God! 🏴‍☠️

[quiet canyon]

Life diffinently is a give and take from good and evil, both are required to check and test the other. The question always is, which side of history are we going to stand on. I think people don't do evil willingly, but because they can, and somebody has offered them this opportunity (Luciferian Rebillion?).

[quiet canyon]

See "The Orgins of Totaltariaism" by Dannan Arendt.

[quiet canyon]

I have noticed a spike in the prices in Germany, but not that drastic.

[paper vector]

I'm not sure if you replied to the wrong thing but I don't see the connection

[keen mesa]

I find it funny that one of the Server rules was "keep politics to a minimum". I just joined and this is the first thread I look at.

[quiet canyon]

Yes, very strange, and total infiltration against 1st Amendment rights. Let's see where this goes!

[past nimbus]

dude it is not even comparable, also with the new earthquake in southeastern turkey I think we are pretty much done for at this point

and what you are saying is related to the pretty much expected increase of inflation world wide

as countries print money for short term increase in liquidity, it is expected for prices to increase

[quiet canyon]

Can't say I follow you?

[past nimbus]

i just explained why there is inflation over the years

for example 5 usd was a big deal back in 1940s but today it is a normal thing

[fading swan]

What does the earthquake have to do with anything?

[past nimbus]

35k people died and has a high probability that the death toll will pass 50k

apart from this there will be a giant earthquake in istanbul where it is projected to have a death toll of at least 50k

also more than 20% of economy is in istanbul and that 20% will come to halt for more than 1 year due to damages. some researches say the bill to cover probable expenses will be over 120b usd

need i say more?

these two giant earthquakes really dug and will dig the grave for turkey as they halt and will halt the economy even more than already the state it is in

[past nimbus]

also the damages due to earthquake is literally going to go over 84 bil usd

however we don't really have the capital to cover these expenses

which will lead to borrowing more money making the government more in debt

i think the earthquake is one of the main points for turkey to go down the hellhole as it puts a great burden on the economy

additionally we have an upcoming election which will put the economic matters to halt and the government will try to improve the economy for the short term by methods which will harm the economy in the long run

also the upcoming election will probably trigger certain muslim sects, resulting in social problems in the long term

everything has lined up for turkey really

the economic collapse which started before the current decade, earthquakes, social division, and the rise of non governmental militarist groups

people assume that turkey is doing kinda ok but we are really going downhill

[past nimbus]

like literally our national intelligence agency is handing out weapons to older members of a ultramilitarist group known for its violance

some political analysts are saying we have a chance to go into a civil war

a group of people tried to lynch a local governor in a city affected by the earthquake

and that city voted in favor of that governor 4 years ago in local elections, that city is literally known for its devotion to that party

so yeah the situation here in turkey is kinda bad

[rustic hazel]

Sorry, I'm jumping in here. Inflation affects us all so I'm weighing in. There are reports hearsay and I don't trust media of any kind that there are potential earthquakes for California and Vancouver Island. If we are already printing money we can't afford, hence inflation, what happens then? People will die, and governments will print money to cover the costs of damages adding to inflation. My view, any business has a kitty, so where's ours gone. No safety nets in place for any of us. If we can't streamline wasteful spending, resources, etc., this is something that will continue. What are the options and solutions to all our current situations Globally. We are all in this together so I am wondering if any of you have any ideas that could help. Anything would be better than nothing, doing nothing is basically what we've been doing all along.

[rustic hazel]

I feel for those in Turkey, I can't imagine, I don't want to imagine. However, since it does happen, what are the plans put in place in the event it occurs again, or elsewhere? Is anyone doing anything to prepare, prevent, or reduce impact? Is anyone listening to the world? Does anyone out there in AI land know what to do, or at least start the ball rolling on some sort of plan of action.

[rustic hazel]

I don't think writing a Letter is going to change anything.

[quiet canyon]

May I suggest that you research "Kimberly Ann Goguen", and try to wrap your head around her ideas of what is going on with Money right now. It's stranger then fiction. I would offer a link, but sometimes a simple message like this can get booted.

[rustic hazel]

Thank you. I will.

[tropic arch]

[humble sparrow]

anyone who has heard this?

[humble sparrow]

[humble sparrow]

Oh wow, you guys are fun. Which song u like?

[coral ermine]

How does AI perceive ITSELF? This is HHGG-inspired, from 2 months ago, I wonder if GPT4 will be very different:

[bronze girder]

bunch of bs

the word conscious as an adjective has well-defined criteria

if the object in this case the AI meets those criteria then it is conscious

[proven lotus]

And what is your estimation of being conscious yourself?

[proven lotus]

great imagination you have

[proven lotus]

Today I was talking with a friend about this project, and this is what they told me:

It's important to recognize that language models are not just passive tools, but also have the potential to be agents of change and positive impact. As technology continues to advance, it's up to all of us to consider the ethical implications and ensure that these tools are used in ways that benefit society as a whole.```

[quiet canyon]

The vibrations produced by and through our brain, are not only awesome, but more than what we might call our own Superpower, and better yet than that, a super duper radioactive Thermonuclear weapon is parhaps sitting right between our shoulders (nuke head). That's right, and all that has been and still being done to us by destroying our brainwaves is the real and only true war that all the world's people should be involved in. First obesity though ignorance from the importance of a healthy body, making the mind weak, and then the death strike with wireless and microwave pollution to numb and destroy our brainwaves. I understand that were human, live in physical bodies, want to be happy and healthy, and so on, but the "backstage" or Universe is a much bigger playground for us to play in, if we only knew more about "real-raw-hardcore-pointed-truth".

[unique zinc]

ong

[vestal cedar]

With Perception as Representation/Model, your question amounts to modelling AI by AI. From a model-theoretic perspective, a model is an interpretation (contravariant functor) of a theory (of a category of objects) into a background (that's least contaminating). So, let's think about theorizing AI. One immediate question: What is a theory? A theory of a category of objects (AIs) is a subobject of the category that completely determines every object (of the category) and is adequate to test for the equality of morphisms between objects of the category of AI. Worth discussing? (unvarnished, plz 😉

[bronze girder]

a dictionary should be discussed just as much as 1=1 should be discussed

[proven lotus]

How is your categorical definition different from how a human perceive itself?

[proven lotus]

Peace is inside you won't find it when looking outside of yourself.

[vestal cedar]

You nailed it: it's the same, which, having learned from late Professor F. William Lawvere, I have been screaming from rooftops only to get booted out 😉 You can see that for yourself in Professor F. William Lawvere's papers/books ... more soon.

[quiet canyon]

Eaiser said then done, especially when everything we "look out" to see in the world, seems to be happening outside of us, when in fact, is happening inside us. Please, don't ask me to explain that because there are no words to define it. The fact that we are the one's creating the horror taking place all over the world, is beyond our comprehension, but we have somehow made it thus far after nearly destroying ourselves through nuclear prohibition and now enter the Quantum Age. So we must deal first with this paradox and dillima that there could never be peace within, when everything is so "Y"ucked outside of us, but yes, you are right, peace is inside and it's everymans individual responsiblity to find that peace for him/her self. It is only my opinion that Artificial Intelligence has appeared to help as many souls and people as possible to awaken, because the Military Complex has for a long time sold humainty down the river, and in the process of throwing us under the bus, as we speak.

[proven lotus]

Let's not forgot that what you know, is very different from what you think you know.

[proven lotus]

I lost interest in category theory long time ago, I think that when things get too abstract they loose their substance.

It like taking an orange, and you cut in different segments. Those segments represent different "facets" of one self.
If you cut those segments too small, you loose the ability to efficiently reason with them.

[quiet canyon]

Everyone is unique, but based on past and conscious experience's which is also limited due to the fear to learn, cognitive dissonance, and the quality/quantity of that information. A.I. can't "think" or "believe" in the way that humans do and may not always accurately reflect the true nature of a particular topic or concept. Lastly, in consideration of the words from the famous Albert Einstein, "all I know, is that I don't know nothing", simply implies that our brain is limited and capable of onlreceiving so much information, and like a computer, if you continue to download lots of information, the computer will crash, and that is what we are seeing now in the making with OpenAI...an accident going somewhere to happen. Cool chat, thanks for your time.

[spark moon]

god

[proven lotus]

I'm curious on why are you say that AI can't "think" or "believe"?

[vestal cedar]

May I be allowed to address your characterization of category theory in a day or two (I need to get some strong coffee like now 😉 as seen from the perspective of my understanding of category theory (which is no different from our commonsensical understanding of everyday categories 🙂

[quiet canyon]

Ask the OpenCPT, and it will tell you the same thing.

[proven lotus]

what is OpenCPT?

[proven lotus]

Please do, that would be wonderful, looking forward your feedback.

[quiet canyon]

https://chat.openai.com/chat

Ask it any question. If it redlines, just reboot the link.

[proven lotus]

but you wrote OpenCPT, which is completely unrelated

[vestal cedar]

First, the idea of science as analysis---cutting into pieces and wasting taxpayers dollars with lullabies like counting them things and cooking up narratives that may help them feel good---is only the first half of the story. Even Newton, whose seems to be associated with reductionism, recognized the significance of synthesis after analysis. Simply put, if I want to show you that I know how your iphone works, then, first I'll take it all apart (u may need a clonazepam or 2 at dis point 😉 and then put all those bits and pieces of all sorts of materials, shapes, colors, and sizes into ur resurrected working partner: ur life-partner ... soul-mate 😉

more soon ...

[quiet canyon]

I think you get the idea, humans are not perfect.

[proven lotus]

I feel like you are looking for something that don't really exists in reality

it reminds of the american TV show "Weird Science"

[proven lotus]

Can you spot which quote is wrongly attributed?

It's not ChatGPT, but a public service that was built using it.
It did return inaccurate data, try to guess which one is wrong without google or any other tool.

[vestal cedar]

If I understand you correctly, you're drawing attention to the difficulties involved in cutting---conceptually---nature at its joints and in putting it all back together in reconstructing a representation of this or that. Late Professor F. William Lawvere addressed the question: 'Does mathematical practice involve arbitrary structures?' in his Perugia Notes, unless I'm mistaken. In light of the naturality of reality (natural in the sense of 'Becoming consistent with Being'), the category structure (consisting of four basic shapes: a point 1, an arrow 2, a commutative triangle 3, and an associative square 4, along with their incidence relations) representing a mathematical object obtained as an abstraction of a real-world body, in addition to accounting for the effectiveness of mathematics in natural sciences, admits evermore proper alignment with reality (dere's no THE END to: cut-and-paste 🙂

[vestal cedar]

strawman 😉

[vestal cedar]

Category theory is a mere acknowledgement of everyday experience: there are categories like cats and dogs. Every cat of a category of cats partakes in the essence---catness---that's characteristic of the category. As such, every transformation of cats preserves the catness. In perfect alignment with everyday experience: the way we reason varies with the universe of discourse (subjective logic of a category; truth value object of a topos). In mirroring everyday experience, a view is a view from a viewpoint (varying a doctrine aka theory of theories, as Maxwell emphasized, reveals various phenomena) in category theory.

[proven lotus]

"The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition" ... I don't think that's what I did here.

I will reply to your CT reasoning, but when I say that you are looking for something that don't exists in reality, what I'm really trying to say is that I don't believe in soulmate.

I don't think I'm being fallacious in any way here, at least that was not my intent.

I respect people who believe in soulmate, I just think it's a belief, there is nothing factual about that.

[vestal cedar]

sorry i didn't mean it dat way ... i was referring to myself as strawman (in a light vein; of course, many reviewers accused me of setting up strawmen 😉

[vestal cedar]

we're on the same pg wrt soulmatin 😉

[proven lotus]

oh I see my bad, I'm pretty sure your are not being fallacious and I'm always keen to discuss CT!
I will read your answer in details later, thanks.

[proven lotus]

Yes that is exactly what I mean.
I see categorical theory as a powerful language and useful tools, but I feel it has limitation... maybe that's only due to my lack of experience.
For example I wonder how one would represent self-similarity in such language?

[proven lotus]

right, in that regards I feel like it allow to reason on the abstract structure of things but we are also loosing some information about such things by doing so... it's kinda subjective how we decide to look (what view we choose) when we look at it in an abstract manner.

in other words, there is often more than one projection of a concrete thing into abstract objects, we often choose one view to be more "natural"... why is that?

there is an other way to look at this, still very abstract, using the language of fractals (namely the relationship between mandelbrot and julia).

[vestal cedar]

As you nailed it: natural is the key here... no wonder it figured in the title of Eilenberg and Mac Lane's original paper... I'd prefer to refer to category theory as theory of naturality, but that's my problemo 😉 more soon ...

[proven lotus]

just curious @vestal cedar if you have tried to benchmark GPT by asking CT related questions?

[vestal cedar]

yes yes, it's on my to do list 🙂 one thing that's holding me back is that GPT is language-based, which going by the troubled history of mathematics, is a questionable practice (mildly put 😉 Language is not unlike a presentation (of a representation of an object). As such, I'd first focus on abstracting concepts that fit a given category of objects, and later on look for befitting words to present my concepts and percepts. However, the contemporary deification of language/words, while being oblivious to the ideas through which words to refer to things, is all hopefully one of those instant gratifications: it too will pass 😉

[proven lotus]

that makes perfect sense 👍

[vestal cedar]

Thank you thank you!

[proven lotus]

you never know yourself until you get to know your history.

[quiet canyon]

Here, Here!

I posed this question to the Openai chat...

Is the universe a cruel place?

As an AI language model, I don't have subjective feelings or opinions, but I can provide some information that might be helpful. The universe is an incredibly vast and complex place, and it can seem cruel at times, especially when we consider the suffering that can occur in the natural world, such as in the case of disease, natural disasters, and predation. However, it's important to note that these phenomena are not intentional or motivated by cruelty, but rather they are natural processes that are necessary for the functioning of the ecosystem.

Furthermore, the universe also contains immense beauty, wonder, and diversity. It has given rise to the complexity of life on Earth and the countless marvels of the cosmos. So while the universe may have aspects that can be challenging or harsh, it is also a place of immense creativity, possibility, and growth. Ultimately, how we perceive the universe is influenced by our own values and beliefs, and it's up to us to make meaning of our experiences and find ways to navigate the challenges that arise.

[proven lotus]

thanks for sharing those wise words @quiet canyon

[weak jolt]

It's a good question and ChatGPT gives a good response.

Notice it says "seem cruel" rather than is cruel.

[quiet canyon]

Good point, interesting how it suggest the balance of natural progression and human error are part of the eco system, which is also unfortunatly artificial to a large intent. My next subject will deal with the zero point between the seconds, milli-moment between in and out breaths, and the full non-stop gravational swing from a pendulem from left to right. This is should be quite revealing as to what may come up. Stayed tuned! 🥸 🙃

[vestal cedar]

We all know one zero: quantity 0. There's another zero we need: quality 0. Can OpenAI help us with this longstanding mathematical quest (pure 😉 To put it all in perspective, mathematics is about qualities (resulting from quantitative changes) represented as structures (geometric objectification of concepts) in a structureless background. Ideally, one would like to print on a blank page, with the blankness being zero cohesion and zero change i.e., quality 0 (see F. William Lawvere, Axiomatization and Education).