Reworking Everything

[winter sluice]

Since there's been a lot of discussion about nerfing, especially with aeno and lycan getting one, I feel like it's time to actually do what I think would be the best idea. I will be using this post to catalog my reworks which will be centered around 2.7/2.6 and start with apexes, then uniques, legendaries, ect with omegas being last, also only nerfs will be done here so I don't have to change literally everything for this. Feel free to offer any feedback or make your own reworks.

[vagrant ginkgo]

Indolycan needs more shatter at least

[winter sluice]

Keep in mind this is supposed to be when compsocaulus was the strongest thing around and you don't even need resistances at all to be top tier

[vagrant ginkgo]

Oh then its fine

But imo geminid doesnt need the distraction in the rampage

[winter sluice]

It could just have group decelerating rampage although it might be too similar to titan

[winter sluice]

Done with apex, ceramagnus is reverted to it's pre 2.21 version

[vagrant ginkgo]

cool

[vagrant ginkgo]

balanced creatures

something that ludia will never make

[vagrant ginkgo]

I think atroci could've stayed as it was before

[winter sluice]

It's a bit much, it already actually looks like it could be a contender for the 8th slot in the next tournament

[vagrant ginkgo]

I dont think that it could be even viable

Its just made bad in purpose

At least if the cloak applied before attacking then it would be good

[winter sluice]

I think it would just destroy everything the way it is now, tryko, dio, manga, gem, ect would all die

[atomic plume]

I'd leave Ceramagnus as it is right now

[winter sluice]

It was already top tier in 2.9 so it doesn't need to be stronger

I think it was meta from release until they nerfed its damage to 1300

[vagrant ginkgo]

Yea

[vagrant ginkgo]

Instead of longer protection in the alanlylo I would put dig in

[halcyon onyx]

Carnotaur. It is about balamcing not making dinos- you dont like a huge cr*p. Lol your modifiers on áll dinos literally makes them Worthless pos. Have you seen the New ones?segno atroci, thylos, cerato omegas. If there were on lvl30 gemini, pyro wolves go in the dump. Everything goes that are in use now. But you always have problem with gemini. It is getting pathetic

[halcyon onyx]

It is in the game now. It is called geminititan. Which is a unique. You know deus is an apex and from titan,.

[winter sluice]

You realize I'm reworking everything right?

I did every unique up to scorp gen 3

Did you just see my gem rework and skip everything else? I did cerato, thylos, all the atrociraptors, pyro and the wolves and once I post the last few uniques will move on to legendaries

[winter sluice]

Look at these and tell me I only did geminideus

[stuck heath]

He's speechless

"fades back into shadows"

[winter sluice]

Seems more like he just saw the gem rework and not the other 30+ I did and decided to attack the idea because it involves nerfs, funny how all the uniques listed are in here and reworked

Reworking Everything

Yeah he's only doing it because he hates geminid

[halcyon onyx]

In my timezone it was late. Rework. Yes is saw.just like jwa 1.0 rework old ones to compete new.

Yes i saw all of your dinos. Technically nerf everything to the ground. 😄 At least it is time for legendaries ans epics to shine :DDDD

[winter sluice]

My bad, didn't know that and I do plan to start on legendary and epic sometime later

[halcyon onyx]

At least do, as it was in jwa 1.0. chomp distract and shield. Nothing more fancy 😄

[winter sluice]

It's more like 2.0, I'll be keeping the new mechanics introduced but obviously not as powerful as they are now

[halcyon onyx]

rework old ones , to make it worth to develop, just like ptero. It can be really annoying,

dont forget the differencies between classes. Apex should be stronger than below

[winter sluice]

I could do that but for now it's way easier to bring things down before I make 100 buffs for commons and rares

[halcyon onyx]

I like your idea overall. I just need a good cause to quit this game. And in the end you can play with your aviary friend for couple of weeks before everyone leves 😄

i still loves your gemini idea. I would love to kill it with cunnings. I mean i can beat it with 15 differnt ways, but now i can do it with cunnings too 😄

[winter sluice]

I don't think most of the reworked cunnings could take it in a 1v1

[halcyon onyx]

See ? that is your problem?Who cares on on one? i Mean i do 3k damaege with a cunning, swap in thlyos os constricto and kill gemini. Pvp synergy not 1v1

[winter sluice]

The problem is the gemi idea isn't just being thrown into arena so thylos and constricto can't swap in like they do normally

Constrictoraptor doesn't have its shatter move anymore and thylos would make an ok swap but not for the kill

[halcyon onyx]

Panther has, but not the upgrade 😄

it is nice to modify attacks randomly , but they are all gonna be the same. reilient will sweep cunnings, cunnings fierce and fierce resilient, because they all gonn be neutered. So nothing will change eventually, but will be more boring. Dinos with mixed attacks will be ubers. 😄 So what did you do beside caressing your ego? 😄

[winter sluice]

I don't see what the problem is, all I did was take every creature and try to base it off an older version of the game

If you remember everything being able to sweep opposite class teams and apparently being so broken but at the same time neutered in 2.6 I don't know what game you were playing, you just hate anything that's not what currently exists for no reason reason other than the delusion that everyone but you is a babbling idiot who crys about everything

[vagrant ginkgo]

I think you are angry because you didnt want your favorite creature to get nerfed lmao

Stop crying

[halcyon onyx]

Not my favourite, and not in the best of six in the game. You are crybabies because your only chance to succeed if you nerf everything and ruin other's game. Luckily this kind of nonsense will be never applied. Because only losers would play, but they will be bored soon. And sometimes somebody believe he is the messiah who knows all the problem of the game, but never reached aviary or above😁😁

[vagrant ginkgo]

The game is so bad rn

Idk how you are able to still enjoy it

You are prob a p2w beta lmao

[halcyon onyx]

I proved some weeks ago i am not. I play for almost from the beginning. If you have the latest dinos you r cool. 🤷

And who cries about deus, must see the New dinos, they literally slaughter it. Not mentioned everyone still can think in deus vs anyone 1v1. People with this narrow mind wants to change the game😂

[vagrant ginkgo]

The new dinos are trash

Segnotheri is trash, atrocimoloch is trash

[winter sluice]

First of all as I said you have a major superiority complex, second of all I've been in shores

Explain to me why having 10 creatures that destroy everything else and constantly get replaced is better than giving everything a chance because I'm genuinely curious if you have an actual reason besides "I'm the best and you're all idiots who whine about things when the store is right over there"

What I think you don't understand is I want to do this because I care about the game and want it to be fun, not because I'm some crybaby who saw a geminideus in aviary one time, and I obviously know that this isn't the only way to make that kind of change either

[halcyon onyx]

Finally made it to the shore. Ggz lol. That is why u complains áll the time😂

Because ludia wants money, by giving stronger and stronger dinos. Thats all.

[winter sluice]

I still don't see where your argument against my point is, all you say is we complain and Ludia wants more money

I just want to hear one reason why the current way things are is better than my proposal

[formal moat]

People don’t just complain because they’re not in shores

[halcyon onyx]

They complain because they weak to get in. They dont wanna be stronger, they Just want an easy way in. It doesnt matter gemini is stronger or not they wont get in because who are in will slaughter them with the New ones. So they are gonna stay no matter what. 🤷

[winter sluice]

That's not why I'm complaining at all, I'm currently sitting at 5950 points

You still have yet to provide a valid reason why the current system is superior to an attempt at balance

[formal moat]

Ik people in the top 100 who think the state of the game is horrible right now, one of which quit because of all the reasons carnotaur has argued for

[halcyon onyx]

Your proposal is s***. You Just think you are better then anyone else who creates the game. What you think balance makes the game boring and predictable. Just random ly putting moves on dinos, rooting from the current state, that makes your New moves wrong

[winter sluice]

I never said my ideas were the best or only way to do it at all

[halcyon onyx]

You have no idea of synergy, it probably wont be balanced, it kicks the whole synergy. Complain about mortem, or touramoloch. Why are dinos good for only raids not pvp. Your whole problem is pvp. And what bothers you the most eventually, that makes your point wrong

[formal moat]

With carnos proposal you have 50+ options for team synergy and just using builds you like

[winter sluice]

When was this anti synergy? Most creatures still have swap ins, on escapes, and run moves that already did

Just because thylos can't fire off a 5k swap and run to an atrocod who heals you to death doesn't mean you have fun synergetic gameplay

[halcyon onyx]

Have you tried in real. Did you write a program to simulate whole. Or Just put moves you think would be good?

[formal moat]

They all do the same things as before though… that’s literally what he said

[winter sluice]

I obviously don't have the time to battle test every matchup but I had a specific goal and moveset in mind

I also have gotten all of them checked with someone else and made several edits to the ones currently posted

[halcyon onyx]

Taking away shield advantage, priority and target áll opponent makes deus vulnerably dinos with Dodge and flock. These are mostly cunnings. Or i guess you want to delete things like races. (cunning, fierce, resilient?)

[winter sluice]

So you're saying you need a priority invincibility rampage to counter cunnings? Sounds like a problem with the cunnings instead, who are also reworked, it has a group attack and 2 anti dodge moves

[smoky hound]

It’s interesting to see how at the beginning @halcyon onyx used to politely tell people how they disagreed with them. Nowadays it’s only insults after insults, which I guess stems from the fact that people constantly ask for geminid, and other meta creatures for that matter, nerfs.
What a character arc.

[winter sluice]

To be fair gem is shaking now

Thylos and constricto have left their marks on it

[halcyon onyx]

I never told ppl politely😂

[smoky hound]

Idk, I felt like you weren’t as direct before

[halcyon onyx]

Carnotaur, pls share your starting lineup

[winter sluice]

Alright, I assume you're expecting level 20-23 though

[formal moat]

Nah you definitely were. At the very least you didn’t ever insult people

[granite gazelle]

Ever since Indon came out my potential of hitting shores dropped significantly lol

[halcyon onyx]

I only said whining, and crybabies all the time. And it turné out ppl complaining about deus in different topics are between 5000-6000. Not suprisingly that is why they are complainimg🤷

[formal moat]

Damn, that must suck

[granite gazelle]

Yeah oppressiveness does suck

[halcyon onyx]

I can complain about the New thylos. If you swap it it it slaughteres. 🤷

[halcyon onyx]

I understand why you complain.

Deus and ptero is good. Dilo copmy, ok, rest is...needs to be changed.grt for 6k with these

You have no chompers. Ni rexy aeno, tyranno, scorpion, and wondering why you struggled with gemini. No lockers, to finish it. That is what i am talking about. You have to change not the game, no focus and synergy in your team.

What yould you do against this team with no gemini?

[winter sluice]

I don't complain about just gem because I don't have a chomper, it's because only 3 can actually kill it

Imperato, my own gem, and indonemys can do well against it but I usually need 2 creatures working together to kill it

[halcyon onyx]

You can weaken gemini not kill it, but you dont have a lockers to keep it in

[winter sluice]

Which 4 would I be fighting?

[halcyon onyx]

What would you do with that cerato i linked in? You never faced a real team Just showed you.

Any four

[winter sluice]

I have seen some of the stuff from up there, I actually fought someone with a t5 atrocod and t2 cerato

Ref has just enough health to kill their constricto in the end

[halcyon onyx]

Few weeks Back. Not showing off, but to know who i am facing every day. Be stronger change your dinos. You should have aeno by this time

[granite gazelle]

Gem's a raid boss. Imagine it vs Elania, Troodoboa, Lystrosavis, Compso, Dilorach, almost anything BUT the meta practically

[formal moat]

Do you play pvps often?

[winter sluice]

Not too much but I do every few days

[formal moat]

Alr that makes sense then

Most people that don’t play pvp often don’t care about their teams too much, me included

[halcyon onyx]

My inkus are always on in the Last 4 and a half year. So yeah for incubators

Question was not for me, but yeah i care for my team. That is why i dont like ppl not caring and "weaker" wants changing

[formal moat]

The reason some people don’t play pvp is because it’s not fun for them, nothing wrong with someone expressing their opinions on why pvp isn’t fun

[halcyon onyx]

Not fun ok, couple of days Back i lost about 25 pvp games in a day and won 3. Lost 400 points. That wasnt fun. Played Back. And crawled Back. So what?

Gain DNa and money from incus. That is why i am ahead to most ppl. You have to struggled and dedicate if you want to be better.

[formal moat]

Me personally, I don’t really care about trophies. I honestly couldn’t care less if I lost 400 trophies, I just want to have fun either way, and pvp isn’t fun in the way it used to be

[winter sluice]

I think I'm going to restate my point to make sure everyone's on the same page, right now there's 10-15 extremely powerful creatures that are required to use to get high in arena while everything else is useless unless they make one of the currently meta hybrids, however it doesn't have to be that way and while there's no one way to do it an attempt to make smilonemys and atrocodistis equally viable yet unique cunning resilient options for example should be made to benefit everyone

[halcyon onyx]

So long storyt short, i translate your comment. I want to be equal good compare anyone else with the dinos i have/want to use, no matter what.

[winter sluice]

Kind of, some stuff would still be stronger but not to the current degree it is

[halcyon onyx]

I want to be a millionare Just like elon musk éven though i am a simple employee

[formal moat]

You could easily create more diversity with his method, each creature having its own strategy and its own use. Something like albertospinos, which is a bleeder, but applied to every other creature

[winter sluice]

So you want people to be funneled into only a few picks and spend money on them? Tryko is harder to get than dracocerato but guess who's garbage and who's a top 8 unique in tournaments

[halcyon onyx]

Why developing New creatures, if 8 random dinos would do it?

[winter sluice]

Because you have freedom to choose what you like and each new creature should offer something that appeals to at least a few people

[formal moat]

New team synergies and new ways to play. Take for example albertospinos, he’s a bleeder. You could try to get dracovenator which could be a distractor instead, something like that

Each creature will have a different role and therefore a different team synergy

[halcyon onyx]

Whats the point playing the game if you have no diverse? No urge to develop New, how would you share rewards? What would it be a hippi commune or what? Lets give anyone equal prizes. Bronthis is a competitive game.

Claim for an alternativ pvp for certain creatures

[winter sluice]

We're literally asking for more diversity and you're asking for less

I don't know how many times I have to say this but new creatures can be worth using without invalidating the old

[halcyon onyx]

With omegas there would be 20+ top meta. Isnt that diverse enough?

[formal moat]

Each creature has a unique use and team synergy. If a new creature gets released you can use it in a completely new way. Think of it like Pokémon games, even if a Pokémon is worse than another Pokémon, the worse Pokémon is still usable and can still be useful and unique in a team

[winter sluice]

They just replace the current top 10

Although omegas are so expensive they'll be too rare to fully eliminate competition below top 250

[halcyon onyx]

Kingdreadnaught has pterovexus in his team. Noone uses isnt diverse?

[formal moat]

That’s not what we mean by diverse

[halcyon onyx]

Spino snake is Back in the game. Lost couple of pvp bacause of it. Not meta didnt expect. Lost. Isnt that diverse enough?

[formal moat]

Either that or I’m misinterpreting what you said

[winter sluice]

It counts but that's 1 person using 1 creature that was just buffed to the edge of the meta

[winter sluice]

Considering about 1/5 of uniques and apexes are somewhere near usable I would say no

[halcyon onyx]

I know what you mean diverse. You want to compete with the dinos you have and you are Salty to not get ahead. 🤷

[formal moat]

Even if you pull up outliers there’s still like 30+ uniques that are practically useless

[winter sluice]

That's not it at all, I just want everything to be capable of being used

[formal moat]

No? I would use creatures that I like the game style of. That’s what I do in Pokémon, I don’t see why I wouldn’t do it here

[winter sluice]

You're problem is you think everyone is only focused on their own gain every time when that's not always the case

[halcyon onyx]

Because it is a more complex game, not Just silly attacks.

[formal moat]

Pokémon is more complex than jwa

[halcyon onyx]

Thats why i dumped pogo. Ridiculus those pvps

[winter sluice]

More complex doesn't mean exclusionary and frustrating

[formal moat]

Like way more complex, it’s not even funny

When I refer to Pokémon I mean the actual Nintendo games btw, not poke go

[halcyon onyx]

Guess you should return Back to pokemon

[formal moat]

I still play Pokémon from time to time, also love dinosaurs though

Hence why I’m here

[halcyon onyx]

It is not frustrating on developing dinos you can win with

[formal moat]

How so? Some people can’t adapt fast enough to get those creatures. The meta changes every other month, for most people that isn’t enough time to get a new dinosaur with the necessary boosts

[halcyon onyx]

That is the real problem

[formal moat]

I don’t think those people should be at the top but they don’t have fun because of it and that’s the point of this

[halcyon onyx]

I give a s** about omegas, for instance

I will play i guess until omegas do to lvl30. 🤷

[faint vine]

This is a suggestions page, not what’s going to be implemented. Why do you need to attack people constantly for wanting something different?

[winter sluice]

And that's unique finished, on to omegas and then legendaries

[formal moat]

Wouldn’t spinos benefit from the rampage that thylos has?

[winter sluice]

I figured it would be left with an atrocious turn 1 then

Without the swap in it would be pretty bad since even in those days nothing but a strike to open with left you in a bad spot

[formal moat]

Alr that’s true, the t1 would be horrific

[halcyon onyx]

It is somehow cute, ppl who achieved nothing, didnt play that much talking about how to change the game to benefit them 😄 I would like to be an olympic medalist in running. I have asthma, bad joint, and hate running. But it is not balanced, just becuase somebody has genetics and spent 6 hrs a day for years of training, I should have chance to win and enjoy :DDDDD

[white silo]

Bro is to obsessed with this game

[formal moat]

Your biggest flaw is assuming that people here want to be the best at this game, when in reality most of them just want to have fun. And also, there will still be top players, and there will always be top players, they’ll just need to rely more on skill as opposed to chucking money at the problem

[halcyon onyx]

You always Say pvp is not fun. Why? I Tell you. Because you lose all the time. So why dont you enjoy playing your dinos? You dont need success to play, do you? Then whats the problem?

[formal moat]

Because of a lack of skill needed, lack of complexity, and a lack of diversity

I don’t really care if I win or lose

[halcyon onyx]

There are, you Just dont have it.

Why dont you complain to add another pvp system simutanioisly. Without boost, f.e. If chompers cant have speed bosst they are weaker. So it would be more diverse. But no you want to change the endgame

If you want that, play friendly games. 🤷

[formal moat]

We’re suggesting the easiest option, why would you make an entire new pvp system when you could nerf or buff like 15 dinosaurs? And also that doesn’t help diversity, what your suggesting is basically skill tournaments, and in that case the top 10 creatures will prob stay top 10, everything else gets demolished

Making a new pvp system is a decent idea for skill based pvp though, just harder to implement

And you do realize this affects everyone equally right? If anything endgame players would have an advantage since they could get the load out they wish for faster

[halcyon onyx]

What you want with nerfs,thst no dino should be strong. That makes Grinding and levelling up dinos sense less. Why would i lvl up 50+ dinos to lvl30 if i can enjoy pvp with 8?

Caressing my ego to do that. I could reach that state in a month and reach the endgame with it. The whole game would be garbage

This is a DNa grinding game. Collecting.

[formal moat]

People could be unlocking creatures for testing it, to see if it will work in their team or not. A new dinosaur could be added, you like it, simple as that, it gets in your team and takes a while to get to level 30 anyway. And before you say it won’t work, it will… because that’s literally what Pokémon games are

[halcyon onyx]

Who pits more effort in the game should rewarded better. Just like life. Get over it. Sitting in a coach playing 5 min a day shouldnt make you equal ly enjoy the game.

[formal moat]

Yes but you would need pure skill to do such a thing, as well as grinding of course. Once again, Pokémon has done that same formula dozens of times and it always works because of the skill gap and knowledge gap between the average player and the pro player

[formal moat]

And they will get rewarded more… with dna

[halcyon onyx]

You always need skill in pvp. I won games that was hopeless, and lost because i was overthink or in bad shape.

You could claim, that certain dinos could appear above certain pvp points.

You couldnt use or face gemini if you dont reach 6k

So if you are skilled you can go above.

[formal moat]

That’s just not true in the slightest

[halcyon onyx]

Nobody could use endgame dinos in lower arenas

[formal moat]

Yeah you lack knowledge of the lower arenas then

I’ve seen at least a dozen gems in aviary, seen 2 in library although I don’t get there anymore after I changed my team

I also know people with gem that are in mid library or low library

[winter sluice]

That's not the point of this at all

You think we're all a bunch of lazy idiots who want to be the best with 0 effort but that's more your own ego than anything else, all I want is for you to be able to reach the top tiers with any creature you know how to use well

It will still take skill and a lot of time to max stuff since I'm not proposing making anything cheaper, in fact more diversity means more skill needed because you could be facing 30-40 different creatures rather than 10 when you climb

[halcyon onyx]

Are there classes in pokemon? Legendary unique apex?

You cant reach top tier with any dino you want

[winter sluice]

But you should be able to use any unique and apex you want

Also I'm not the one making the pokemon comparisons here

[halcyon onyx]

This is not pokemon. Just in real life certain pokemon stronger Than others. If you have 8 herbivores, should they defeat 8 trex? No. Why should they do it here? There will always be stronger dinos in any way. Btw your lineup sucks. Without chompers in your case, you will never be top tier. If you modify all the dinos, and stinking this you wont be. And this is not pokemon, real dinos, with moveset that fits its look, and character

[winter sluice]

Funny how there are dozens of herbivores that could kill rex in a fight

Again I'm not making any parallels to pokemon, you're talking to the wrong person about that

And now you're just insulting my team even though I've made it to shores and I would say indonemys and imperato count as chompers

[formal moat]

No but there almost are

There are stronger Pokémon and weaker Pokémon. Legendaries are the strongest stats wise, resistances depend

However that doesn’t mean the other Pokémon aren’t useful, a lot of legendaries go unused due to personal preference

[winter sluice]

Also trying to use real world logic for this game is a pointless argument but that just leaves you with an extremely boring meta because you'd only be using sauropods

[formal moat]

Also the last sentence quite literally described Pokémon near perfectly….

[winter sluice]

Sure, it's not realistic for 3 birds to kill a trex but it's also not realistic for that trex to kill a brachiosaurus so things may as well stay as they are

[halcyon onyx]

It is not realistic a small lion to kill a bigger buffulo, or a small pack of hyenas to get a lion. 🙂

[winter sluice]

Realism really doesn't work here

[halcyon onyx]

A chomper and chomper has differences.lion tiger, puma, jaguar, gepard should be fairly equal in a jwa savannaj game? 😁

[formal moat]

Yes it is… it very much is

[winter sluice]

Not the same but all useable because of their differences

[halcyon onyx]

Usabel in different areas

[formal moat]

Though a lone lion would be absolutely slaughtered by a buffalo, same with the hyena

[winter sluice]

Exactly, everything has their own strengths that makes them usable

[formal moat]

Real life doesn’t apply to jwa, and doing so is useless. Do you want the entire game to be sauropods?

[halcyon onyx]

Yes but in the end lion will be the endgame player

It makes my thought stronger that certain dinos should be used in certain arenas

[formal moat]

Tigers are superior to lions in most ways, unless you’re counting the pride

[winter sluice]

Not exactly, tigers are larger and stronger on their own, jaguars have a powerful bite and can swim, leopards are incredibly stealthy, and cougars are more agile

[halcyon onyx]

But if you put them in a cage who would won?

[formal moat]

Tiger

[winter sluice]

Probably a tiger

[halcyon onyx]

So tiger needs to be nerfed

[formal moat]

Although a 1v1v1v1v1 would end in them not fighting at all until they got really hungry, and in that case everyone dies

Real life not applying to jwa once again

[winter sluice]

You've gotten on my case over lacking synergy to take out gem, now you're basing everything off an extremely unrealistic 1v1 scenario?

Not everything is 1v1 as you said

[halcyon onyx]

Why? Just like in moves they want to evolve a dino to make them Fight,

[halcyon onyx]

I Just wanted to point your flaws in your arguement

[formal moat]

?

[winter sluice]

Because real world logic just makes the entire roster useless pretty much

[formal moat]

If this game was made off real world logic then sauropods would be the only dinosaurs in your roster, no other animal stands even a chance with them

[winter sluice]

You'd literally have a rare as the best creature in the game and no one wants that because it's bad game design

[austere yew]

@winter sluice I'd like to see more of your rebalancing rework ideas. You really put a lot of consideration and effort into it and I appreciate that

[winter sluice]

Thanks, I might have omegas done later today

I decided not to touch training points at all so it's just moves and resistances

[stark cove]

Reading this suggestion is very entertaining... My 2 cents :

• I like the challenge stronger dinos provide... e.g. GemD has never been an issue, instead it is entertaining to find new ways to kill it. Imp, Gyga and AlbertoSpinos are fun against it, Indonemys and Toro have a chance and even if I get a team of cunnings, I love hitting it with Draco every two turns to knock most of it down and then hit it with something else. By now most GemD I face are L30 and many are boost maxed
• I do believe many people here want a benefit for nothing (more coins, more this, more that). And many complain that the team they have (and never change) is no longer able to kill a newer dino. It feels like they dont want to invest the effort, but still want to win.
• All dinos are useful at different levels. What is useful in Aviary or Library is not useful above. Most people here complain about levels above Library (i.e. dont have the full picture in mind, as those "weak" dinos still kill in levels below). Of course, I am sure there are exception (e.g. I have not seen Smilonemys do much recently)
• Most people here just complain... This is true of any online forum and this server is no exception. Those that love the game PLAY, and those that dont, complain. Unless someone have access to real stats of the game, I always ignore those people claiming the game is dying.

Now for the OTHER side...

• Carnotaur stands behind their opinion. Their analysis make sense (and even if I dont share the opinion, I respect it). In fact, cannot be placed in the group of "complainers", I see them help newbies in other channels over and over again.
• Even though I think balance breaks games (PokeGo is boring, D&D 4 was dead from the start, etc). I enjoy seeing the reworks they do here and would advise Ludia to at least consider SOME of them. More playable dinos is GOOD
• IF a REAL rebalance ever happens, I may end up leaving the game as I like its current challenge. HOWEVER, I would give it a try at least.

[winter sluice]

I think you have some good points, I'm definitely not going for total equality across the board but the worst of uniques and legendaries would struggle to find a place among rares or even commons in the case of skoolasaurus while the best could 1v42 the entire common rarity

I don't think I'd try to replicate the old days when epics like thyla and rhino mixed with uniques in shores but when creatures warp the game to such a point that viability is at least partially judged by how well they handle 1 specific creature is too much, basically what I want is an environment where smilonemys and atrocodistis are both viable cunning resilients with their own styles that make them unique but something like nasutoceratops can't be used in arena

[smoky hound]

I think it’s a simplistic view to say that people that complain don’t play.
While I’ve stopped playing for a while, I did complain even when I still played.

[stuck heath]

I think people believe old creatures should be replaced by new ones due to power creep making them more op in favour of profit rather than balance. This means many creatures sit unused in our collection and the same couple of newly released ones dominate the arenas. If all creatures were viable then there would be so much more diversity in PvP and allowing people to customise their teams on their own play style not just to aim for the same few meta creatures. The only disadvantage would be a reduction in profit from new dino's being more balanced. Which is why it will likely not be fully achievable. However, if done right I believe the game would become a lot more enjoyable and would bring in more people. If you want a game based only on desperately chasing newly released dino's and being constantly behind people who open up their wallet's then that's your opinion but I believe most people would prefer variety and balance instead.

[winter sluice]

I think there should be some strength behind exclusivity, like tmetro being straight up better than Thor but still different from it and not oppressively so

Like tmetro could have better stats and the heal but instant charge and some other stuff would keep Thor unique and give it a purpose for existing

[stuck heath]

Just a small tweak but shouldn't pounce and bite be the highest damage first as the pounce and the smaller amount as the bite. It doesn't really matter but my OCD wanted to say

Also if you could you highlight what you changed then that would be quite helpful. Keep up the good work 👍

[winter sluice]

I could but that does actually impact flocks somewhat

[stuck heath]

Wouldn't that be bite and pounce though?

[winter sluice]

I guess so, realistically it should be called distracting double strike or something like that but I just edited the move some

[winter sluice]

Already have epic done and ready to post later, should be only a few rares and commons needed to change

[halcyon onyx]

keep up this boring stuff. We count on you. Put those 3 different moves on every dino make it balanced 😄

[vagrant ginkgo]

Stfu

[jade laurel]

Can you please go away? You are just annoying, you harass people, and are just rude. Thanks! 🤫

[winter sluice]

What do you think we should do instead? Just let Clever Girl annihilate everyone because someone spent money on it and leave several hundred creatures as hybrid fuel at best and not worth the storage space on your phone at worst?

I don't see why people hate the idea of more than 6 or 7 expensive exclusives being actually good while every other interesting design or play style is wiped from existence because they can't use an instant heal rampage that gives them invincibility or deal 10,000 damage with no set up, especially when they claim not to spend on those creatures

[winter sluice]

I mean to be fair it's not like these suggestions mean anything

Ludia will never listen to them

[winter sluice]

True but that also raises the question of why fight so hard against it then?

[winter sluice]

That's also true

If you want to complain about these things because they won't happen, why do it so vehemently

[winter sluice]

It's on both sides, no point acting like your ideas are final and the best option for everything in the game or calling everyone who doesn't like having their team systematically one shot by a 5,000$ CG a self centered cry baby with no skill

[smoky python]

Anyone else ready to drop 10k for this creature

[winter sluice]

Honestly tyrannomattel would have been a better name

Not sure if I'll do a rework for it because I would prefer if it didn't exist

[smoky python]

Red Red would've been a better name

[winter sluice]

This is pretty much everything, rares and commons only have a few minor nerfs to newer additions like coel, dread, and alberto

[halcyon onyx]

Actually way more viable + omegas. You just don't know because you are weak and dont have them. if you put this many effort to the actual game, then this nonsense you could enjoy the game

[faint vine]

What is your issue lol. Stay out of this thread if you don’t like it

I’m not sure why you keep coming back to the argument that everyone wanting reworks are stupid and crybaby’s not capable of killing anything strong or using anything strong

[granite gazelle]

Then why is everything so oppressive

Oops guess we are weak for getting walled by oppressive creatures

[winter sluice]

You realize CG is unattainable above probably level 16 at best for free? You just look like a stuck up whale now

[winter sluice]

I don't have omegas not because I'm weak but because it's literally impossible for me to do without money, I also wouldn't call being consistently in high gyro weak

If you have CG on your team in shores then I guess you can do whatever you want with that money but don't call us weak and incompetent for not following your lead

[halcyon onyx]

Or as i proved before couple of month earlier(compy nerf thread) , i do not pay for the game, except vip. I grind Hard. I am slower Than whales, but achieveable. What can you all show up? Darting dnas, and spinning can help you a lot. Crying in discord not. 🤷

[formal moat]

That wasn’t his point though? He said it makes you look like a stuck up whale, not that you are a whale

[halcyon onyx]

So the point is everyone can be "stuck up whale" who can "enjoy the game". Why gont you do that too?

[winter sluice]

You still realize your claim that I'm weak because I don't have CG falls flat on its face because a usable CG costs hundreds of dollars minimum

I looked for her every time I was in the car the whole time she was available for darting and got level 12

[formal moat]

No? That’s not the point in the slightest

[winter sluice]

I admit I didn't max the attempts or dart perfectly but I put in all the effort I reasonably could

[halcyon onyx]

my popint , everyone can achieve what i did. You just dont want to work hard for that. Simple as that

[winter sluice]

No they can't

CG cannot be higher than level 16 at most for free, it's just not possible

[halcyon onyx]

what is CG?

[formal moat]

No clue how that correlates with your earlier claims on “everyone can have fun if they grind 24/7”

[winter sluice]

Clever Girl

So you went off about how I was weak and needed more effort when you didn't even know what I was talking about?

[halcyon onyx]

EZ, if you work hard, you can have ecerything, you can diverse your setup as you wish, and ever can lvl up in pvp

[winter sluice]

You can't

It's not possible to get some creatures through hard work alone

[halcyon onyx]

I do not care about omegas as i said. Not in my focus.

[winter sluice]

Well you can't just pretend they don't exist

[halcyon onyx]

that is what allianves are for

[formal moat]

I can’t use everything, I’d get rinsed if I used everything I actually wanted to

[winter sluice]

Tell me how an alliance helps you get ceratosaurus?

[halcyon onyx]

There are still viable creatures beside omegas. Focus on them

[halcyon onyx]

Fyi , i only have 800 dna from that. Never cared. can live without it. My setup is diverse enough 😄

There was time when it could be darted, i hope you know

[winter sluice]

Still can't be level 30 though

[distant pewter]

I believe the highest you can get with vip only is around maybe 27 right now.

[distant pewter]

You got to remember, he solely focuses on Arena. Where it matters the least. So the amount of creatures to rocks on is much smaller than someone who wants to do better in tournaments. As well

[winter sluice]

CG is top 3 easy in arena

Maybe 4th

[winter sluice]

Also here's a question for you, why shouldn't smilonemys be allowed to preform well in unique skill tournaments?

[distant pewter]

Ya but he doesn't have to focus on a wide variety of creatures. Is what Im Getting at. He says people are weak. But doesn't perform well in the part of the game that matters the most. Only around his centralized self.

[halcyon onyx]

I guess Because you have it and like it.

[winter sluice]

I have it level 25 base

[distant pewter]

It's easy to focus on 8 creatures. When others focus on 48 creatures.

[winter sluice]

No boosts, only reason to it's leveled is for indon

[winter sluice]

Balance doesn't mean having to level 50 creatures and max them out

[distant pewter]

I'm not even talking about balance.

I'm talking about him calling people weak. And why he's successful in the least important part of the game.

[formal moat]

That’s not a valid reason

[halcyon onyx]

Let me introduce to you to irony

[winter sluice]

You're assuming I only want it to be usable because I would benefit from it when that's not true, there's others like magna who I used a long time ago but is entirely irrelevant now unless it gets a hybrid, grypolyth which I never touched aside from 1 level, antarctoven who I never leveled, mammolania, and more that I haven't and won't touch until something happens

[halcyon onyx]

You can create your own game. Learn Unity, and do.

[winter sluice]

A single person can't make a game like this

[distant pewter]

Wait I'm stuck on how that's irony. Wouldn't that be sarcasm?

[halcyon onyx]

Bad for ya

[winter sluice]

You also still never answered my question about why nemys deserves to be a useless trash heap on its own

[formal moat]

His question was why should smilonemeys not be usable in skill tournaments and you replied “because you like it and you have it” that isn’t a valid answer to that question. It’s not irony, it’s a lack of acknowledgment

[distant pewter]

Lack of knowledge

[winter sluice]

That's his whole thing, ignore the point to continue bashing everyone but himself as idiots who need to get good

[formal moat]

Possibly but I’m not going to diss people just cause they disagree with me

[halcyon onyx]

I do not care what is useable or not. I adapt, I use what is given to me. simple.

[winter sluice]

So you just don't care about how balanced the game is?

[formal moat]

You still dodged the question and haven’t given even close to a response

[winter sluice]

Then why oppose it so much?

You seem to care quite a lot about keeping well over 75% of the creatures in the game useless, why not just adapt to a balanced meta rather than a broken one?

[distant pewter]

[halcyon onyx]

I did my own good without ruining others possibilities and effort to the game. You dont. You want ruin others ppl commitment and hard work for your good.

[distant pewter]

For arena. That's probably close to 95%

[distant pewter]

Having a larger healthy meta is doing more good for more people. Are you high?

[winter sluice]

How am I ruining other's work? These reworks take nothing from people

It's also not for my good only, you keep thinking everyone is out for themselves only like you are

[halcyon onyx]

You dont lok for possibilities to meke those dinos relevant, just to modify them for your own good. that is my problem

[distant pewter]

How is having a small meta, that consistently rotates creatures at a fast pace good for a large number of players. Vs a large meta that doesn't rotate creature viability.

[formal moat]

What? He’s literally just dumbed down the op dinos lol, all the moves and play styles should be basically the same

[winter sluice]

How do you make them relevant without changing them? I've also nerfed things I have on my team

[halcyon onyx]

Ppl who sarts 500 dh every day and doing 20+ pvp a day. that is hard work, that is why ppl reach something. Your "work" makes that irrelevant.

[winter sluice]

It doesn't though

[distant pewter]

This dude is on something. Can you pass it over?

[winter sluice]

I'm not taking anything from people, ideally all their investments are still very much usable

[halcyon onyx]

You could compete with anyone with your 8 balanced dino with those wha has 40+ lvl30

[winter sluice]

Having 40 benched 30s is a problem

[distant pewter]

40 unusable 30s

[halcyon onyx]

I told everything i want. Sometimes i come back and lough at your tries. i hope someday you all can work hard in your lives for something.

[distant pewter]

You act like you are better than everyone. The irony of that. Is your not. The fact you have to "boast" in a game. Just shows how tiny you really are. 😁

If you aren't going to give an actual good advice, or a decent argument on why the game shouldn't be further balanced.

These players want a larger, more healthy meta. And the only thing you can come up with, is "get good" and work harder. It doesn't work like that. And it's quite ignorant.

[halcyon onyx]

Not everyone, just some of you 🙂

[distant pewter]

Having a healthier meta would indeed help more people. What you aren't doing, is helping anyone at all. The irony of that as well. Everyone has different circumstances. Different lives. Not everyone can sit on this game and play 10 hours a day, like you.

No no, you legit act better than everyone. The sad thing is. You aren't better than anyone.

You can't even give a decent bit of advice to anyone. Which just goes to show your godplex. Over a dinosaur game. 😂

[winter sluice]

The fact you correlate wanting to have reasonable fun in a mobile game to being a total failure who's never worked for anything is just 💀

You literally compared wanting to have a healthy meta to an asthmatic person with no training crying about not winning the Olympics against professional runners

That's completely wrong on several levels, first you assume the people who aren't as good as you are inherently less than you and are completely incapable of catching up to your level, second you assume we all just want balance for cheap wins

[stuck heath]

He has no argument except changing the subject to his slightly better team. At this point I think he's just looking for drama so it's not worth arguing with him

[winter sluice]

May as well throw this in

[winter sluice]

Well that's everything in my opinion, obviously not the objective solution to the balancing issues but I imagine things would be better if these reworks were real

I'll continue to update with every new creature that releases

[formal moat]

Wouldn’t it also be necessary to buff a couple of creatures?

[granite gazelle]

what about Preon

Can be oppressive at times especially against the teams I usually draw vs it in rare

[winter sluice]

I was just focusing on nerfs right now, otherwise it might take a really long time to do everything

Could do it at some point though

[stuck heath]

I might just be blind but what did you change here?

All I can see is that suchotator has one less speed without looking it up

[winter sluice]

Lost 300 HP and 50 damage, rod lost bleed resistance

[stuck heath]

Thanks

[smoky hound]

I don’t think it has any resistance rn.

[winter sluice]

Rod has bleed resistance

I think it's 50% or 66%

[smoky hound]

I thought you were talking about suchotator.

[winter sluice]

Oh

[winter sluice]

It's 50

[oblique tide]

I do like this, but I do feel like it should still pin

[winter sluice]

That could work, definitely think venomous counter is a little too much though

[south bough]

Continuing this post in honor of the original poster

[vagrant ginkgo]

Carno got banned?

[stuck heath]

Yes. He and a few others confronted a known cheater and somehow they all were banned while the cheater is not. The original messages have been deleted

[boreal copper]

Yup, during the hacker/cheater incident during when the last update dropped

[vagrant ginkgo]

Damn