#Cultivate+Paradigm Shift Infinite Combo needs a nerf

6 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

uneven haven
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For those who don't know, it's very easy to go infinite with Cultivate + Paradigm Shift and a few other cd reductions or will cost reductions. I've seen screenshots of people spamming the floor with Cultivates but honestly it can be done just with a single Cultivate. I recorded a video vs Argolath to demonstrate it (Unranked, cause I ain't gonna use exploits to boost my rank): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fnM1WWsLBk

Yeeeeah so this needs a hefty nerf, I don't believe it should be possible to go infinite at all and it is FAR too easy to do if you can get Paradigm Shift. Hell, I was even doing two quests that had pretty heavy restrictions (win with 4 or less Vestiges, win with no Ascensions) so you imagine just how easier it is when you're playing normally.

proper ermine
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I kinda like having these busted combos - its not something that can happen every run, and trying to force it when RNG isnt in your favor can end the run. One of the most fun parts of roguelites/deckbuilders is powering up and feeling strong and this is almost the ideal case. The demo had it much much easier with far more infinites (and bosses didnt have the diamond/phase mechanics either!)

unique chasm
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The problem is that there aren't enough bindings in the game to make it so seeing cultivate isnt almost garunteed so finding paradigm shift is just an immediate broken run

tropic robin
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This seems significantly harder to get together than a build that will win you the game "normally", and the normal build will be much stronger if you haven't yet assembled or can't assemble your whole combo.

uneven haven
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Honestly I just feel like it's so cheesy in Ranked, if you get Paradigm it's an automatic win. Even two Harmonizing Whistles can work, anything that provides cooldown/will reduction. There's a lot of ways to enable it. Cultivate is already very strong on its own, you can force the reroll very easily with Glyphs, and from there if you find the right Vestiges and Augments (again, easy enough to reroll) it's just way too broken

proper ermine
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Considering it's a PvE game I still think it's OK, since if the combo is unfun, you're only really hurting yourself. But depends on how it works on a 4player game. Since players can drop, reroll, and trade vestiges independently you have a much higher percentage of going infinite. I'm not sure if devs had made a statement about infinite combos or not, but there are many other games which have them and are still alive and healthy today (even PvP ones like Magic: the Gathering). But in regards to trading vestiges, this still works with "normal" builds. Is one player going full support (Leaky pen, shocked, etc) and another player going "i take all the team's orbs to one shot all mobs" healthy for the game? Both can be accomplished via vestige trading. What's the difference if its done via infinite combo versus just a series of powerful synergy? The end result is the same. I guess my main point is, where do we draw the line between something degenerate/unhealthy versus something which is simply "a strong strategy" ?