PA612-CF Tips to improve layer bonding | Polymaker (3D Printing) | Page 1

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 9:51 AM

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So previously I never noticed since I was printing short models. I'm finding that my layer bonding is particularly weak, weak enough that I can very easily snap with my hands and even enough that the nozzle broke the part.

Haven't had this before with Polymakers PA6-CF, PA6-GF of PA12-CF so I'm very curious what the best way to print this filament is. Maybe layer adhesion is weak up until it's annealed.

285C Nozzle, 60C Bed and 25C cooling fan. This is reduced from Raise3D's profiles which are generally set to 50% for all the E2-CF PA-CF filaments.

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Here's an example of the part snapping along the layer during the print

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I have been able to very easily snap this with my hands

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 9:53 AM

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Isnt 60C bed a bit high?

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For the warp free tech

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 9:55 AM

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I'm printing onto PolySupport for PA12-CF which recommends 50-80C. With the raft and my printer lid open, I don't believe the Nylon will be reaching 60C.

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 9:55 AM

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Ah, I see

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No experience with pa612 yet, but with copa, slightly increasing my EM helped a lot with layer adhesion

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 9:56 AM

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I don't have any of these issues with other PM Nylons

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 9:56 AM

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Bad spool?

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 9:57 AM

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I don't think so

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If it was a bad spool, why only in Z-axis

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 9:57 AM

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Try increase the EM and see if that helps

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 9:57 AM

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what is EM?

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 9:58 AM

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Extrusion Multiplier (flow rate in cura)

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You have 2 different nozzle right? 1 for support 1 for pa612

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 10:00 AM

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yep two nozzles

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two different material profiles

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 10:00 AM

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Otherwise cross contamination could be an issue

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 10:00 AM

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It's not an issue

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I tuned the last 3 days to ensure cool down temps were fine

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 10:01 AM

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Looks like it shouldnt be with your setup

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What's your current EM/flow?

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Which slicer do you use btw?

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 10:02 AM

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Using Ideamaker 4.4.1

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82%, based on other Pro3 templates it seems low but it's not particularly crazy

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Looking at the cross section I can see that perhaps I could benefit from increasing this

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might be onto something with the flow

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I'm just shook how easily I can break it

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I've increased nozzle temp to 295C, lowered fan to 15% and increased flow to 90%. Just printing a cylinder to see how it goes. Hoping I still get to achieve my clean multi-material prints 😂 this was honestly such a clean result

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 11:05 AM

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sage rivet I've increased nozzle temp to 295C, lowered fan to 15% and increased flow to 90%...

I'ld turn fan off, even a slight fan (in open frame) does affect layer adhesion in my experience

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295 eh 😆 seems a tad bit high don't you think? 😁

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 11:14 AM

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sage rivet

Cross-section pic does seem to be underextruded.

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 1:52 PM

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I did a semi decent cylinder. Couldn't break it across layers. So have now tested a model I have experience with in the past two see if I can break that.

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 2:57 PM

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sage rivet I did a semi decent cylinder. Couldn't break it across layers. So have now teste...

Awesome!

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Try to use same settings in your previous model and change only the EM to see if that helps.

lunar lodge Apr 7, 2023, 4:44 PM

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tepid ether 295 eh 😆 seems a tad bit high don't you think? 😁

That all depends on the length of the melt zone and the speed of the print

tepid ether Apr 7, 2023, 5:05 PM

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lunar lodge That all depends on the length of the melt zone and the speed of the print

True, but I don't think matt was printing at crazy speeds

sage rivet Apr 7, 2023, 11:40 PM

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No crazy extrusion rate, Accel is high but that's because I have klipper on the machine. 60/70mm/s print speed with 5000mm/s accell

sage rivet Apr 8, 2023, 4:49 AM

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UPDATE: Have improved layer adhesion significantly. It's unknown if this has been a result of changes in layer time, or the flow settings.

Effectively the new model I printed was strong on every layer except for the layers where there was a nozzle change. So I need to explore if it's the longer layer time, or related to the fan speed when printing PolySupport for PA12

tepid ether Apr 8, 2023, 11:01 AM

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sage rivet UPDATE: Have improved layer adhesion significantly. It's unknown if this has bee...

You could repeat with your old settings but change only flowrate 😁

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Does polysupport absolutely require cooling?

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Otherwise you could try turn fan off. decrease your temp and maybe increase print speed.

sage rivet Apr 8, 2023, 11:06 AM

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So far based on results I think flow rate wasn't a huge component to the how extreme the problem was, though it surely was reducing the strength.

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I'm testing, I did find cooling fan solved my stringing and blobbing issues with PolySupport for PA12. May need to try and be more creative with a solution

tepid ether Apr 8, 2023, 11:45 AM

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Try a model with and without supports. Curious to see your findings

spice cipher Apr 8, 2023, 7:34 PM

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sage rivet I've increased nozzle temp to 295C, lowered fan to 15% and increased flow to 90%...

yeah 0 fan on the print and with polymaker CF nylons i've found you dont really need support material, just enforce 20% fan on bridging and supports and they snap off cleanly. Also definitely keep a closed chamber or it will cool too fast to get good layer adhesion

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havent personally found a good way to get good adhesion on an open air printer like my prusa though unfortunately, even up to 320C no fan

sage rivet Apr 14, 2023, 8:20 AM

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I'm back on track!

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Found the flow rate was good, 2 extrusions would equal 0.8mm but the two lines weren't adhering well. So I lowered my extrusion width to 0.38mm to force the two lines closer together. Then calibrated flow based on that.

sage rivet Apr 14, 2023, 8:49 AM

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Cooling fan was also the contributing factor, significantly reduced that.

#PA612-CF Tips to improve layer bonding