#To involve player's opinion and VOTING to balance the game

27 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fair fjord
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From the new patch, i already think a lot of player gonna dislike it. it s because the buffs do not make sense at all. But the unit must indeed be buffed. it s just that, i think opinion should be considered better and, maybe voting should be applied. you offer what should be buffed, as option, we player decide by voting which wil work for us.
example: Because the data says mavka is not played much in pvp, has bad winrate and bad contribution even when not countered. then, you offer to buff all of kit of mavka's . you let player vote what you could offer like this

  1. increase hit/give surefire to mavka if opponents has defender in the squad, but has not deployed any at all
  2. basic attacks valid hits now 2 or more and can now attack air unit
  3. deployment cost decreased by 2, and stat atk increase some %
    .
    then, you let players to vote. whichever voted the most, it has to be applied.
    .
    i just dislike how all of sudden buffs are applied. it s because that ignore what players have. With voting, people would consider the general comps and counters the meta unit too (you as developers dont need to consider player's feeling afterward, and players feels they are involved. quite win-win solution, no? ), and it will make pvp goes 'friendlier' because each unit can have good counters.
    as proof, pvp weekly banlist you provided, occasionally prevents players from choosing to ban Awakened esterossa as the current strongest unit. yes, because she is banned a lot of times already, but MUST BE BANNED ANYWAY ACCORDING TO PLAYER. preventing a unit to be in banlist, just leave me, as player kinda speechless honestly. it is what makes me once, in SEA SERVER, stop climbing in ranked.
    in the end, you repeat mistake in designing unit (unit that was tier SSS pvp in prydwen) , and how to deal with them after the complaint (edited) : Jisoo, dino, Horizon, curian, asmodeus and this time ester
fair fjord
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note: you guys kinda failed in 'resource aquisition'. from rearm to AR

fair fjord
spice aspen
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Running the buffs by the playerbase first is pointless, people aren't able to properly judge something without actually testing it first as it just becomes speculation. But they should run major system changes such as the change to the ban system through the community first because these aren't anywhere near as hard to gauge the effects of compared to unit buffs and they are a lot more important.

fair fjord
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that is why just buff smth that is visible by first glance. amongst the 3 point mavka's buff i mentioned,all ofthem are like easy to consider. i can think many players might be going the 2nd choices: because many awakened air unit are like that except her. the 3rd option is definitely avoided because unit who gain dp decrease does not get picked either.
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if you read patch notes, Mors will have 200% hp and def + from passive alone, + knockbback attacks like hori when combined with felix. it is quite visible what happens next without even testing.
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even after closed testing, they release uncounterable awakened unit deliberately that destroys balance from time to time.

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i mean Mors would definitely be broken if she includes any dead unit. even if the stacks does not increase from 10 to 20%.

spice aspen
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What if they don't want to buff something in a way that makes its effects obvious at first glance? There is no need to force that just so people can have accurate opinions before actually getting to test stuff. Secondly making valid hits 2 with a gun attack simply doesn't make sense because it isn't meant to be aoe in the first place so I don't know what you mean by "I can think many players might be going the 2nd choices." Third, there are a lot of unit interactions that people simply don't account for when they can't physically test them so no, it is not quite visible what happens next even for straight stat buffs without testing. Finally, as for their testing practises, yeah, idk wtf they are doing to come to the conclusion that some of these recent units or changes are reasonable, but even if that's the case, why would they outsource their future unit change testing to the community? The people here aren't going to be much better if at all compared to their testers.

fair fjord
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the devs have to make options that r only obvious at first glance! pvp has been so toxic bc banlist dont really act like banlist. banlist should not be rotated to begin with. players always understand meta better than devs do. anyway, the point of the game is still to have fun right. and the voting is either to maximize its utility if they LIKE the unit, or to people who dislike it, to choose the choices which make its utility not COUNTERING the best comps they have. that is the point of the system i propose.
if there is an elements players wish to vanish, like certain unit, let players decide who to ban. if they want to ban jisoo permanently, let players ban her permanently. why even banlist has to be rotated, even the voting ones? no developers in gacha games, who serve pvp contents, ever speak out why the change is made like that. Players dont get to speak and deicde = complaints wont stop. WE ALREADY HAVE THIS ISSUE FROM SEA SERVER but devs always maintained the same status quo (Designing a lot of unit uncounterable and bad for meta. many players vote to ban her when they can bc they dont have that. Then, after certain duration, they weaken the old unit, release the new unit, with the same issue. they repeat it).
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take modern Yu Gi Oh from Konami. from time to time, they make banlist on their cards, but the decision is not based on to make game competitive, fun and balanced (because things went wrong from their closed tests, so they take that decision). they want to make it toxic and sell more cards. the banlist they make, is to make cards they have released unused in tournaments EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE HAVE SPENT MONEY FOR KONAMI.

spice aspen
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The banlist rotating is not bad, infact it is a good concept because it should keep things fresh each week as long as there isn't any dominant unit unbanned (such as Anoelle, but refer to the balance changes to see the fact that they are actually addressing this issue).
Players are playing the game the most so yes they understand the meta better than the devs, this doesn't mean the devs are clueless in comparison for example, (you can see they clearly designed units like Anoelle and Aeste to counter the strategy of blitzing enemy tanks by either annihilating the backline or by making them have unreal survivability. + balance changes.)
The playerbase is not a hive mind, they'll never agree to do one specific thing such as ban any specific unit.
The point of the game is to have fun... so why did you suggest a permanent ban feature? Are you unable to comprehend that would make the people who invested in that unit start having a lot less fun (yet another reason why the bans rotating is a good thing)?
People will always complain, this is called a compromise so everyone can have their bit of fun. A suggestion like permanently banning units ruins this and is a horrible Idea.
The newest balance changes (specifically base karin) are helping with these "uncounterable" units (Anoelle) by making them less problematic for the meta, less people are going to run her when most people are running base karin. so this point of maintaining status quo and whatever doesn't apply here.
Also can you be specific about what issue has been repeated with new units, because the Anoelle backline annihilation and Aeste never dying issue simply has never happened before in the way it is now. (not to say we haven't ever had absurdly tanky units before (lucia) but they have major differences in each event.
This yugioh example seems all over the place, I don't see how it is similar to counterside voteban system where the units people don't want to see are punished by the ban system.

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Just as a general comment on your whole "give players more control of future changes." I firmly believe it is a horrible idea to give the playerbase full control of balance changes on units (like how you suggested changes for mavka). Everyone has their own opinions on units and will unfairly gut units they don't like or overbuff units they do like. Even if the devs don't perfectly balance the units, there at least isn't a bias making a recurring pattern in balance.

spice aspen
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I'm almost certainly going to start repeating myself if this debate continues so I'll just leave a final note on the topic of involving the players in game changes.
Players will never have more involvement than giving feedback to proposed changes, there will never be a voting system or a suggesting specific changes system as those both have the potential to create a divide in this already small community.
But, I do think it is important that players should be informed about future changes (obviously helps with their only involvement being feedback), the degree of detail they need depends on how severely this could potentially impact parts of the game. Here are a few examples.
Unit balance is minimal, they already have testers. Worst case scenario is we get another broken unit or two, really not that severe with the ban system.
Resource changes such as new systems like ARs or 120 need a high level of detail as this affects all of the game, player feedback should be heavily weighted. A worst case scenario is that it's too easy to upgrade and trivialises all previous content or it is really difficult to get and creates a bigger gap between f2p and p2w, both are really bad.
PvP system changes such as the ban system need high detail and player feedback should be heavily weighted. Worst case scenario is that there is one or two impactful high cost units being used in every team making it feel like you have no variety in matches, this is game killing, most people are already on their last straw and will take any future bad change as a way to escape the sunk cost fallacy that is this game.

dire prism
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increase hit/give surefire to mavka if opponents has defender in the squad, but has not deployed any at all
basic attacks valid hits now 2 or more and can now attack air unit
deployment cost decreased by 2, and stat atk increase some %

These are some stupid buffs

floral trout
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"Players are good at identifying problems but suck at proposing solutions"
You, my friend, are a shining example of this saying.

fair fjord
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with aoe basic attack, it s just another flier with the same kit as other fliers dps (noelle, base and awakened asmodeus, rita).

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if my suggestion stupid, where would devs be with the announcement of devnote 39? bottom hell of moron?

dire prism
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There’s better and outright stupid. The Dev made her better, yours will make her outright stupid.

What you suggested are buffs that will make Mavka frankly broken.

The 2nd buff is fine if it is changed to being able to hit air units only. That itself is a huge buff. There is no need to increase all of her basic attack to 2 valid hits because she already gets an attack that has 2 valid hit in her 3rd phase.

The 1st and 3rd buff are the ones that will make Mavka broken. Did you expect them to change her entire kit? or make her a 4 cost and then INCREASE her base ATK stat even though her dmg is STUPIDLY high against all enemies for her current cost? Because that seems like what you are suggesting.

If you don’t know how to properly balance a unit without making them broken or unhinged, then don’t suggest anything please.

fair fjord
# dire prism There’s better and outright stupid. The Dev made her better, yours will make her...

devs made her better, i do not
you mean, mavka is fine with ulti 25-30 seconds earlier than usual? i guess we understand now why devs design awakened unit ranged is also backline killer. it s because player thinks that it is normal for unit to be able to kill backline each others, forgetting what it means if her ulti casted that fast. then, after that she still gains surefire to clear the tanks as the backline has been wiped out so there is no risk of counterplay (except if you could deploy Alsy even before she ults) ; /

floral trout
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please learn english language

fair fjord
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ok beside me, i can tell ppl that get into this discussion already be enjoying fast ulti mavka

fair fjord
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tell this to your dumb dev, architect solution, and managers @loud wing @noble kiln @vital latch when tf you stop mirror match format? now in [unlimited arena season 4], all players playing noel este.

dusk vale
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What did ya expect from a mode where there's no bans?

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That people would try to have fun playing funny comps?

fair fjord