Suggestion#1855

[ashen scroll]

if you nerfing units to the point unusable just to make new awakening shine more thats really bad move
@warped bluff There's a difference between nerfing for the health of the game and nerfing to drive sales.
Many of the characters slated for nerfs are legitimately problematic for game health. If you're not familiar with PVP meta it's hard to understand how bad these were, especially at their peaks.
The most glaringly obvious of the problem characters is the dino mech. Since its inception on the KR server it has been banned 40 consecutive weeks in a row. This means dino mech was free for half a week on its debut and it has never been freed since.
When game balance is so bad that it drives the entire server to ban out a character for close to a year, it's not healthy.

[warped bluff]

Let me clarify my point, if nerfing unit will make unit unuseable/weak in pve , for example nerfing shepherd and after that it make shepherd way really weak in pve it is bad move, and anyone can have opinion, i can have my own opinion, no ?

[ashen scroll]

The alternative isn't maintaining the status quo.

Of course you don't want to overcompensate on nerfs, but the risk of killing a unit with excessive nerfs is never a reason to not apply them.

The fact of the matter, not an opinion, is that characters like dino mech are hated by the greater part of the community enough to be reflected consistently in ban data.

It's pretty standard protocol to nerf what are very clearly egregiously broken units.

Regardless gacha or not if they let dino mech sit in its current state they'll just look like fools for releasing a character nobody wants to play against, and the playerbase that pulled dino mech will look like even greater fools for having pulled it.

[untold cipher]

You can have an opinion, and your opinion on its own is fine. But it's not a real suggestion, and it's a non-issue when we haven't even seen the nerfs yet.

Besides, Lurcher already has a reduction in its kit specifically for PvP. There isn't a reason why they can't keep this separation of nerfs.

[lost flame]

most of your suggestions are not actual suggestions to help the game/enrich the competitiveness of the game

[warped bluff]

Consider yourself lucky you are in this channel cause i cannot even curse in this channel, if you have problem with me lets fight it out,

Well seems you are whale that dont have problem with all this awakening rush banner schedule just to merger korea server and global server, and yes this definitely killing players

[upbeat zephyr]

1. He's not wrong most of your suggestions are useless
2. He's not a whale
3. There is no confirmation on Korea merge i have no idea where people are getting this info from
4. The game dying is a multitude of things you can't just point to one thing and say
   "WElL ThIs Is WhY tHe GaMe iS dyIng "

[untold cipher]

It's not personal. It's just criticism. Suggestions need to have an objective and a proposal. It's not really enough to simply point out problems that are so blatantly obvious when you look anywhere else in the server.

[warped bluff]

Of course my advice are all useless for rich people, oh so you know his bank account condition he is not rich ? Great.

Sigh what else rushing awakening banner schedule if not for merge, korea even have slower update, you want proof people are quitting ? You can see next 1 year revenues, well good luck

[lost flame]

So what you assume people are rich just because they dont agree with you? That's messed up

[untold cipher]

Let's drop it. They're just upset, and clearly not willing to listen.

[lost flame]

[upbeat zephyr]

I've known grass for years
I watch him stream gameplay daily and he posts info about his account
He is bricked for PvE his PvP stuff is kind of cope
He's is definitely not a whale
He doesn't have the whale titles
You don't have to know someone's financial situation to know what they have on their account

It doesn't matter what the reasoning of the rushed schedule is
You can't spread misinformation and say Korea merge with no proof or any actual FACTS or confirmed info to back this up

I never said people weren't quitting please learn to read

I said the game dying is due to a multitude of reasons not just one thing
You don't even need to see revenue for next year just look at steam charts and you can see player count steadily decline over the past year
You don't have to be particularly smart to spot that the game playerbase is shrinking
You came to that conclusion

[pastel flume]

[supple hornet]

@warped bluff what’s ur name in game bro

[warped bluff]

What for ? I am low rank player in rta pvp , same as my username

[untold cipher]

Maybe because you told Grass to fight it out with you, and some people just itch for a PvP match.

[warped bluff]

Oh so gang up against 1 person

[untold cipher]

It's not a gang up. It was literally just one person who seems interested in taking your invitation. Grass clearly didn't an interest.

[supple hornet]

Bro how can it be gang up when rta is 1v1

U were talking mad smack to grass why r u so defensive now

[warped bluff]

Even rta 1 vs 1 with many match coming up versus me only, then if thats not called ganging up on me then i dont know anymore, go ahead send me your id game number i will take you on friendly pvp

[kind silo]

Game is nerfing Shepherd & Lurcher, but letting A.Karin run free, is the same reason Goliath got gutted fast after its release: they're Mechs. People hate Mechs, they didn't even bother making Mavka a half-Mech because they hated A.Chris being half-Mech. Sometimes the simplest answer is the most probable one.

People don't want to run their direct counters like Anti-Mech units or protect Tallie because those units lose to everyone else. The point of PVP is for everyone to have answers towards but no, KR players just immediately complain and get Mechs always hotfixed ASAP and anti-Mech units like A.Jake get buffed, and Abraham Heal comps are always debuffed every recent season instead of just hard countering them with Rush. The whole meme statement of "it's called COUNTER:Side not Soldier or Mech:Side" right?

[supple hornet]

you are stupid

👍

[kind silo]

I'll forgive the adhom for being a Furina fan

but you are saying nothing of substance nor counterpoint

[supple hornet]

you yapped about a non issue

[pastel flume]

My poor mechanical waifus! Why are they getting nerfed?

Oh whatever will I do now?

[kind silo]

It is an issue to do a second time where they introduce a new good usable unit for Mech players, but since the majority (especially KR players whose voices are the ones paid attention to by devs) complains it gets rebalanced or hotfixed. Goliath was the first time they did this and it happened the same way

[supple hornet]

did you seriously call dino a "good usable unit"

lets ignore that dino is literally the most broken unit in the game

[mint forge]

bro how much copium are you on to think that a unit that has been cast banned for 40 weeks straight is okay

you need help

you know maybe if the unit gets its kit reworked a little or they figure out a way to get its stats to a make it somehow reasonable with current design you might be able to... play the unit

[kind silo]

AKarin is the same way and she runs scott free. Isn't you guys response is "just ban lol", Tallie can beat Dinomech, Counter players can figure out how to deal with one of our best units

[mint forge]

Okay you're like wood league player trying to talk to you about game balance is pointless because you live in a different world

[supple hornet]

did you say akarin is the same as dino

[kind silo]

noone wanted to bother figuring out how to hard counter release Goliath and instead just complained enough till devs nerfed him. It should've given Siege players more options

[supple hornet]

did you just say akarin got banned for 40 weeks straight

[kind silo]

Do Global players just resort to adhoms lol, I did this even before Dinomech came out

[supple hornet]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

bro

[pastel flume]

Challenger 1 is in fact very hard to get!

[mint forge]

[kind silo]

@idle timber Alright, anyone here who isn't contributing to the topic and just resorting to adhoms, please take them out. Thank you!

[supple hornet]

bro has said the word adhom 3 times

[kind silo]

I did not bring up ranks

[mint forge]

you're not interested in a serious discussion because you're ignoring all the facts relevant to the discussion

you're just pretending like you are

[idle timber]

Tf happened here, and since when this thread existed

[lost flame]

it existed since 1 day ago

[kind silo]

You are not interested in a serious discussion because Mech got a new broken toy when AKarin is just as busted but runs free

[mint forge]

the very notion that akarin is anywhere close to dinos power level is absurd

[supple hornet]

you are not interested in a serious discussion because you are ignoring literally everything we are saying

[idle timber]

All I'm seeing at backlog are just yapping

[mint forge]

you're either clueless or trolling

[lost flame]

We’re trying to tell them that suggestions is used for actual suggestion, not to get your opinion noticed

[kind silo]

the only one trolling here are those calling me "Wood" and then self-report that they boost group join their way to challenger when I show receipts of not being in Woods

[supple hornet]

what did you just say

what does this mean

[kind silo]

this

[pastel flume]

it is hard!

[kind silo]

is what I mean by that

[pastel flume]

i am being encouraging

[orchid lantern]

i am still in plat 😅

[limpid bay]

saw u keep mentioning AKarin talking like she is giga OP
pls point out how is she OP that can make u hating her that much

[supple hornet]

you suck so bad

[kind silo]

I am not even disagreeing to nerf Dinomech too. All am just saying is that Mechs get all the hotfix and nerfs, meanwhile Counters like A.Karin are allowed to run rampant

If we're nerfing Dinomech, rebalance the others too

[little notch]

You made the mistake of treating him as a fellow Furina enjoyer, to him only HE can have Furina you are not the same

[supple hornet]

why are you backtracking

[mint forge]

I don't know what this means but you're still wood league to me if that makes you feel better

[idle timber]

Ok so the idea here is "nerfing other units so that awakening shine or more"

Cue to Raphaella and Levia Tanis

[little notch]

why do you consider her to be on the same level of OPness as Dino though

[kind silo]

I did not backtrack. My overall point is the few times Mech players get something good it's complaints from everyone else, and their voices are the loudest so devs react to them ASAP. It is unfair

[ashen scroll]

There's a misconception that all the factions, counter mech and soldiers, deserve equal representation/ weighting.
This is not true. You can see this in the distribution of bside's new character releases, which are basically all counters + 1/2 mechs/ counters to fit the annual quota when they remember these factions exist.

You're also kinda derailing the discussion. It's not about bside mech bias. No one faction is entitled some kind of share in pvp representation. It's just the natural way the meta develops when you release almost exclusively counters for over a year.

The stuff you say about AKarin can be applied to other broken ASSRs too. In the current state of the game there's no end of problematic characters that mess up the meta. You can compile usage rate data for this. It's pretty objective. https://arca.live/b/breaking/116953887?target=all&keyword=오늘의+픽률+%2B+이번+주+픽률&p=1

[idle timber]

And Rtitan alone is really strong by himself

[pastel flume]

no one complained about chris

or sigma

[ashen scroll]

They literally are.

I'm just using dino as the example because it's the most obvious

[kind silo]

Before I read this, thank you for at least taking the discussion seriously compared to everyone else yapping here

let me take the time to read

[ashen scroll]

I am in full agreement with the others here. I'm just taking the time to explain it so you don't whine about adhom.

[supple hornet]

this has got nothing to do with mechs

bruh

[little notch]

i think you misjudged the power levels of A Karin to be as oppressive as Dino from what i see

[kind silo]

Okay. I accept that Counters in a game called Counter:Side are going to be dominant. Equal representation and balance on PVP games are always going to be impossible. What am asking for is that at the least, Soldiers and Mechs have viable characters that they can use. I like to play and be competitive in my own terms and use who I like to compete instead of following after every meta character every week. I understand they need to do that to sell the game but the option for players to have that is what's enjoyable about the game for me

[little notch]

also goliath is absolutely broken on release justifying a quick nerf

[kind silo]

so the one time we get something busted on our side and then it gets taken away from us is not really fair. I am aware that Levia and the others are also rebalanced this same upcoming patch

[little notch]

so all in all i feel you have a lot of misconceptions of strengths of awakened units

[supple hornet]

titan, asigma, dino, chris

[idle timber]

Rearm Kang aswell on her first week

True damage boogaloo

[little notch]

did rearm kang got a nerf on release? i can't remember

[idle timber]

She deal true damage on her car crash

[little notch]

oh

[idle timber]

[kind silo]

See we can talk in a sane way instead of resorting to "you're bad". I know it's the internet and we love to meme but yeah

[ashen scroll]

There's a point where something busted is just completely unhealthy for the game. This isn't like tit-for-tat I get a nerf you should get a nerf.
From the standpoint of the game holistically, you need to nerf problematic units. It doesn't matter what they're categorized.

[mint forge]

again, if dino gets taken to a reasonable power level/everyone doesn't hate playing against it, you might actually have it free so you can play it in pvp

[idle timber]

On the week of Kang release entire server becomes Beyond incarnation

[mint forge]

the unit is so grossly overtuned right now it's going to be kept banned for a very very long time

[little notch]

ok tl;dr i feel this guy have a lot of misconceptions of the strength of units

[kind silo]

the thing that irks me alongside the Goliath issue was that people didn't really bother to try and find a counter to them. I remember some people claiming ACH-Clan holds up against that release Goliath, and that is amazing that SR units see some use because a new busted unit got introduced

[mint forge]

that's the nice way to put it

[ashen scroll]

I mean the perspective that counters/ mechs/ soldiers deserve equal treatment is just inherently flawed. Bside releases units and you take what you get. That's kind of the extent of it.

[kind silo]

We figured out that Tallie can counter Dinomech in the right conditions

[molten breach]

hahahahahaha

[ashen scroll]

release goliath broke the game and it's disingenious to pretend like it was even remotely balanced.

[pastel flume]

tallie can't beat dino lol

[ashen scroll]

The problem is you need to spec your entire comp to counter dino mech, which feels like total garbage teambuilding-wise because you're forced into scuffed characters with atrocious coverage into other comps in queue.

For many people who are trying to climb, this translates to abysmal winrates

[idle timber]

Eventually realising I-No can one shot Dino and bypassing the immortall gate, but the fact you need that kind of effort and conditioning to kill one unit speaks for itself

[ashen scroll]

so you're siloed into playing dino mech

[limpid bay]

#1289268354778923069 message
can u just point out what makes u feel AKarin OP that equal to Dino
so like this conversation we wont just keep talking to the wall

[little notch]

A Karin isn't as strong as dino not even near the same level, GOliath on release is stupid on the numbers

[supple hornet]

hes gonna say "its just my opinion"

[idle timber]

Akarin are just backline harassment imo

[ashen scroll]

Like we can go into why dino mech is widely considered unpopular and just generally bad, but you can also... just look at... the bans. It's really easy to see when it's just clearly reflected in data.

[idle timber]

Annoying, but definitely manageble

[kind silo]

Farmed them on Arcade so

[little notch]

to use goliath nerf as an example is just wrong, so as comparsion of dino and A karin

[pastel flume]

arcade is nothing

[kind silo]

It's a parallel to everyone here complaining about Dinomech. The only way for me to beat an AKarin is on proper conditions and situations that are not reliable to pull off every PVP match

[little notch]

so it is a you issue

[idle timber]

I just run my trusty Brirta Reujin

To kill Akarin

[little notch]

what do you play actually usually

[idle timber]

[kind silo]

in my perspective, the Dinomech complaint is a "You" issue to those who don't want to bother trying to make a hard counter for Dinomech

[kind silo]

If it's not obvious enough, I run a full Mech team sans Ironside

[little notch]

your point is A Karin is as oppressive as Dino which is not true

is your IGN ZhongJunYee

[molten breach]

unit is extremely busted if she need a HARD COUNTER TEAM

[limpid bay]

u are just talking about tallie have the mechanic herself to break the dino immortal and then forget about how u can make tallie work in an actual run
u just run tallie? no need a tank? and ur tallie wont get distracted by fd unit?

[idle timber]

Like I said before, if you need that much effort and conditioning to even kill one unit is already speak for itself

Like wtff

[kind silo]

that's the price you pay for countering a team you don't like. If you run to too much mechs, resort to AJake and Rebecca, but lose to non-mech teams consequentially. It's the good old rock paper scissors

[molten breach]

[little notch]

and i spammed dino with great success against top 1-30 peeps and played tons of mirrors

Tallie is easily punished

[molten breach]

nah thats just awful take

[little notch]

so that point is moot

[molten breach]

i want to build a team that is strong against all

[idle timber]

Aren't we all

[kind silo]

Good luck, that is ultimately the goal for meta players, but a game should always try its best for it to be multiple compositions against each other

[kind silo]

and that really is how I feel about AKarin really

[little notch]

i feel like the reason this convo is going nowhere is because you are dodging the question of why A karin is as strong as Dino

[kind silo]

and she isn't really the only one for me, there's plenty, like Jisoo and the others

[little notch]

can you give a detailed explanation

[kind silo]

and that is healthy

[idle timber]

Bro is just annoyed he can't kill Akarin and his backline are dying

[little notch]

im starting to think the reason why you are dodging the point is because deep down you know you are wrong

[kind silo]

I answered @limpid bay and didn't dodge the question

is that all of your complaints to Dinomech are parallel to my complaints to the likes of AKarin

[little notch]

i didn't see any points of why is A Karin oppressive specifically

you said the complains are parallel which doesn't explain anything

[limpid bay]

no, u didnt answer my question

like we can point out how dino is OP
so can u?

about AKarin?

[kind silo]

railgun immediately deletes Defenders, bypasses backline, does ship damage at that long range. You have to answer her through backline people which Mechs don't really have options for cause Reaper and Spear are crappy year one of the game units

[idle timber]

I think he mixed up both unit that it's capable of backline hitting

Oh speak of the devil

[supple hornet]

bro just said karin laser deletes defenders

bro are you playing arcade

[idle timber]

Right as I said it

[orchid lantern]

Karin laser cannot deal dmg to ship

[little notch]

I'm gonna assume that you play C6 Titan A hori since you are a dedicated Mech main

which C6 Titan A hori doesn't exactly fold 100% to A karin

if anything C6 buffs for titan A hori can run a karin over

[idle timber]

If Akarin is unable to delete defenders is she even a ranger?

Bro don't give her ASY treatment

[kind silo]

true, but I can also say "If the game is never gonna be equal towards Counters/Mechs/Soldiers, then why cry over Mechs finally getting a busted unit"

Rangers should delete defenders that is their job

[little notch]

ok so i think this is you

[kind silo]

AKarin does a lot more than that and is oppressive

Hi you are looking at my team let's go

[little notch]

tl;dr your team is bad

[idle timber]

Base Hori, yeah no wonder he complains about Akarin

Akarin deletes Hori barrier

[kind silo]

my bad team made it to challenger, so to me "bad" has always been subjective

I popularized the Horizon Abraham heal team at SEA

[little notch]

objectively you are gonna lose in higher elo games

so I think it is objectively right for me to say your team is bad

[kind silo]

and believed in Jungle sets when prydwen took a crap on them on release cause "numbers"

[little notch]

and there's already an example of a mech main having success with pure mech against A karin too

[kind silo]

I didn't say I completely lose to AKarin

on the right conditions I can beat AKarin teams

[little notch]

thing is a properly built mech team can roll over A karin consistently

so it's really a you problem

[kind silo]

all am saying is that mindset isn't fairly applied to Goliath and Dinomech and people just resorted to crying for their nerf instead of figuring them out on how to beat them, because they are Mechs

[little notch]

no don't derail from the point

[kind silo]

It's not only those 8 that I use, I sub in sub out others depending on the situation

right now it's beneficial for me to run Estaque and Grendel together cause there's a lotta strikers in GM

[little notch]

A Karin is consistently ran over by Mechs, proving she isn't on the same power level as Dino not even close

[mint forge]

she doesn't delete defenders, she deletes HORIZON because horizon uses shields

[idle timber]

It's not because of they are Mech class, it's because they are OPPRESSIVE AS FK, if you want equallity then one faction should not be able to Bent over other faction that easily

[mint forge]

akarin is quite bad at killing defenders in most circumstances

[kind silo]

so are we just gonna simultaenously claim that AKarin is both strong and weak at the same time?

[little notch]

so using the point of mindset isn't fairly applied isn't valid in the 1st place

she is fine

not even OP

[kind silo]

"Isn't it her job to delete defenders as a ranger" to "Only Horizon gets deleted by her"

[supple hornet]

we do not agree with lazzie

[idle timber]

And one playstyle should not able to kill all factions

[supple hornet]

👍

[kind silo]

exactly

[little notch]

can get countered by multiple playstyles, not even strong enough to warrant an entire team built around her

[supple hornet]

dino kills all factions

[little notch]

it's purely a you problem

[kind silo]

I am fine with losing yo AYuna or Jisoo players cause they are my hard counter, even if sometimes I beat them too

[little notch]

this is a for fun team

you can't use a for fun team as an example

[kind silo]

What is for fun for you is a challenger team for me and my fellow mech enjoyers

[supple hornet]

challenger team?

[mint forge]

?

[supple hornet]

you are not challenger

[mint forge]

there exist mech enjoyers in upper chally

[orchid lantern]

Guys lets be civil 🫶

[kind silo]

Someone tell the furina guy they aren't really saying anything of substance

[mint forge]

e2, sorrow, harim, some of the jp mech fans that i can't write the names of

[limpid bay]

fox

[kind silo]

Torusel will always be the GOATed

[idle timber]

God

Maria on Mech

[supple hornet]

?

[supple hornet]

you said you have a challenger team

whilst not being in challenger

am i wrong?

[limpid bay]

thats normal maria

[idle timber]

Autocorrect

[little notch]

heck even this annoying jp hori bonk bonk guy

[kind silo]

I showed my emblems of getting there twice

Maria counts she summons mechs on Ult

[kind silo]

I respect thematic people

[limpid bay]

that just mean u r c1 BEFORE

[little notch]

Sorrow is one of the most consistent mech player too

[kind silo]

does not discount the fact that my team has hit Challenger

[little notch]

and all of them can beat A karin consistently

so it is a you problem

[kind silo]

the "before" means nothing

[little notch]

do you understand

[idle timber]

God I can't wait to Rebecca Ajake allover them

[little notch]

your understanding of the game isn't there

[idle timber]

[little notch]

your team is bad that's just how it is

[limpid bay]

how about now?
u still using a outdated team that is a meme team for now and trying assuming u STILL A CHALLENGER PLAYER

[little notch]

So the entire point of A karin being as oppressive as dino is moot

[limpid bay]

the fact now is U R NOT CHALLENGER PLAYER

NOW

[idle timber]

My team are sloppy and rarely plays but I always reached challenger rank

[little notch]

so is the point of the "mindset" of people hating purely on mechs

[supple hornet]

look i dont even care if you arent challenger now

karin is just nowhere near as strong as dino

thats why i called you stupid

[kind silo]

Can we just have Azure and Yiggles talking here and mute everyone else

[little notch]

to use A karin as an example of why she should be nerfed is invalid

dino is just way stronger

[kind silo]

"You are not Challenger" is a nothing statement

I didn't even bring up ranks in the first place

[little notch]

while i think nerfing or buffing dino borders on a delicate balance of not making it complete garbage, dino is much more justified in receiving nerfs compared to Karin

[kind silo]

so let's say I can backtrack and concede that she isn't as strong as Dinomech, I still hold by the statement that she is worthy of rebalancing as she is still a league of her own above a majority of characters

[mint forge]

i brought up ranks because the take screams that it is one of someone who doesn't play the game seriously enough to be taken seriously

[kind silo]

You all shot first

don't rewrite history

[mint forge]

and i don't think I was wrong

[little notch]

that is untrue, if you are talking about her power scale in general compared to other A units on the RTA scene

[supple hornet]

i didnt say anything about your rank

[little notch]

there's just way stronger units

[kind silo]

you bringing up the screenshot is claiming that I brought up ranks first

[mint forge]

a lot of the people talking here are regularly high ranked players

[kind silo]

there is a precedence on Goliath to claim this to be the case

[mint forge]

who have played thousands of matches in pvp

[kind silo]

and also on early Evolved One

people hated her too

[kind silo]

are you claiming that I am not one of those people

I came from SEA

I played near day one

[hearty ore]

But are you still relevant

[little notch]

Well im here to tell you their opinions and feelings does not matter, because Goliath and E1 atm isn't remotely top tier

[limpid bay]

then which mean ur arguement is nothing to us also
u r not even trying to figure out how to actually dealing AKarin bc u keep using a same comp
and dont trying to make every mech player look like u

[pastel flume]

you are day one?

no one even know who u r in day 1

[kind silo]

So we doing the Ricegum "irrelevant" thing now to pretend to contribute to the topic

[idle timber]

Ok seriously this thread are starting becoming a yapping session that dosent have ending, if we can't have a consensus on the topic I will have to close thread

[hearty ore]

?

[idle timber]

[hearty ore]

I haven’t seen you be on ANY leaderboards

[kind silo]

you honestly should've done it ages ago LOL

when I pinged

[little notch]

i wil just tell you the whole issue stems from you lacking understanding of RTA on higher levels

[hearty ore]

wait wait wait

We do

[little notch]

it is what it is

[hearty ore]

It’s just everyone else vs this taikunz guy

[kind silo]

I do have an understanding of it, don't claim otherwise base on what you see of my team really

[idle timber]

I didn't do it at instant because hoping to find consensus, but now i don't think it's possible

[mint forge]

cuz he has a wild out of touch take and wants to have a platform to scream it from

[supple hornet]

literally nobody is agreeing with you

can you take a hint

[little notch]

objectively it is unconvincing when you are 4.9K and not noticable throughout the leaderboards of 3 years

go and get top 20 at least next season

or top 30

[kind silo]

at the least there was Yiggles and Azure to reasonably talk to and have a back and forth instead of the "you're bad" "you're not challenger" people

[hearty ore]

[mint forge]

u can't reasonable talk with people that have unreasonable positions and are not interested in changing their positions

it's like trying to convince a flat earther the earth isn't flat

[kind silo]

disagreements are healthy and make for good discussions, am just saying my perspective on things

[little notch]

ok hear me out, try to get top 30 next season at least and observe pure mech players on team comps

[idle timber]

Are we done here?

[supple hornet]

noooo haha

[pastel flume]

personally im not done

[ashen scroll]

You need to move on from this "us vs them" mindset of "mechs vs counters" because it looks like any discussion is just being stopped by this mindset of "people are complaining about mechs; it's not fair to counters who are just as bad", especially when it's not actually true.

Dino mech objectively speaking is several magnitudes worse than AKarin or any of the other ASSRs. There's clearly some personal bias in how strong you perceive AKarin to be. This is why I tell you to compile the usage rate data from KR, or just use the one for Global that I've provided. Everyone has problem characters they don't like, but when you're discussing "game balance" holistically, you need to be able to move past that bias. In this context, it's understanding that dino mech is extremely problematic, regardless if it's been arbitrarily designated a mech. You could give it a new coat of paint and make it a person and it will still have ALL the same issues.

The problem lies in the kit, not whatever flavor padding they add on top.

I've said it already but bside is under no obligation to balance the game around their counter/mech/soldier categorization. They hardly even balance the game as it is. All bside does is release characters and they find their place in the meta. The community adjusts, until it can't, and that's when it becomes a problem.

Like the others have repeatedly mentioned, dino mech seriously screws up the way teambuilding and matchups work in this game. Regardless your philosophy on how the meta should work, it's just extremely anti-fun. PVP games are built around the idea that your fun is coming at the expense of someone else's loss. This hinges on people playing the game willing to lose. Nobody likes having to tech their team for dino mech, only to have a 50/50 matchup into it and still lose to some random comp someone else is playing that has a 0/100 into dino mech but 100/0 into anti-dino mech. No one is winning consistently.

[idle timber]

I said this before a bit long ago: Dino mech are a wound that somehow gets bigger and more painful

[ashen scroll]

We've had 40 weeks for people to think if they can beat dino mech, and they haven't.
We've had a few months on Global server, a separate community, to also think if they can beat dino mech, and they haven't.
You cannot cite a single interaction in the vaccuum of a me-vs-dino matchup as a justification to continue allowing the character to persist in its current state.
You need to look at how dino mech affects the queue as a whole, because again, you have atrocious matchup into everything else in the game for a marginally better chance at beating dino.
Regardless how you feel about this, it's clear the majority of the community is not willing to tolerate this. This is not because they're all playing counters and they just hate non-counters. They just hate dino's kit.

[limpid bay]

no in global we actually figured out INO can one tap dino

im sry yiggles

[hearty ore]

that’s so cope, she’s one fd away from doing nothin

[idle timber]

It has to be on perfect condition tho

No defenders, no redirect

[kind silo]

Nobody likes having to tech their team for dino mech, only to have a 50/50 matchup into it and still lose to some random comp someone else is playing that has a 0/100 into dino mech but 100/0 into anti-dino mech. No one is winning consistently.
There is an argument to be had that that's the way it's supposed to be for PVP games. A constant rock paper scissors of "Team A beats Team B, but Team B can beat Team C who can beat Team A". You run a 100% Anti-Dinomech and then lose to non-Dinomech players. When there's only one ruling comp and everyone is running the same deck, then it gets stale and boring. I am not ignoring how magnitudes of busted Dinomech is, it's just I feel it wasn't given the time to theorycraft how to properly deal with Dinomech, and even then people refuse and just do the easier option of complaining to devs for a nerf. This happened to Goliath before and as I said earlier, some people tried teching in the Tower Helicopter but hey, loses to A.Na Yubin cause that's another game design cancer the game has to invalidate all towers by just existing .

In Yu-Gi-Oh! currently we have Snake-Eyes archetype and everyone is just dueling against each other with Snake-Eyes. It is boring. The card game's healthiest when there are 3-5 usable decks against each other on high level competitive play

[ashen scroll]

Yeah this is my favorite one because it's

If you run INO Vivian in a specific setup you have the damage to oneshot dino
What comp is compatible with so many teamslots dedicated for this setup?
None, but dino functions well so we just play dino mirror matches.

[little notch]

people had an entire week to theorycraft

[idle timber]

Bro we are not going anywhere

[little notch]

i think you can close it lazzie i want an excuse to prepare supper

by walking away now

[kind silo]

so you can't help that my viewpoint of that it is so easy to hotfix and patch Mechs because they are a hated class has some ground especially with the precedence with Goliath and Evolved One

[hearty ore]

OH YEA THE LAST PARAGRAPH ALSO APPLIES TO BAN 1 DINO

[little notch]

Again the whole issue stems from you lacking understanding of RTA on high elo games

your concerns are non existent especially for A karin vs mech

it is just a you issue

[kind silo]

Okay, so here's where I stand on this by the way. Dinomech nerf is fine, but mech players should also be thrown a bone and get something usable for the nerf too. And that's why I brought up AKarin whom the majority honed here to devalue my opinions. She's just one example, I know Levia is getting reworked too and that's based, but yeah

[idle timber]

In conclusion, Dino is broken and needed to be nerf, this thread will be closed before it's gets more convoluted.

[ashen scroll]

Again this is starting to get annoying you cannot cite goliath and still expect to be taken seriously.

It doesn't take a genius to see that it was beyond broken on release. I'm trying to say this in the kindest way possible but you really don't understand what you're saying if you want to "give these units a chance" when we've had a collective IRL YEAR over the two servers to "figure out" dino and people (collectively, as a server) would sooner permaban dino than deal with it. No other ASSR in the game has this problem because all other ASSRs are tolerable to an extent.

Goliath's entire counterplay was dropping a tower in front of it while your goliath killed their ship, because there was no other character in the game that would output the level of damage that goliath could, while also getting through the enemy frontline.

It is incredibly disingenuous to just sit on the mechs-vs-counters and say "what about the others". Yes, it's clear they care about the others. It's not bside's fault that you think this is unfair treatment when bside releases 1-2 mechs a YEAR so any nerf to mechs represents a disproportionately large % of the mech roster.

You seriously need to move on from this mech-vc-others mindset. I understand from the SEA discord server that you play almost exclusively mech comps, but you need to see past that point and just look at balancing irrespective of faction because quite frankly, it's completely arbitrary.

[little notch]

yes close it now i need an excuse

[ashen scroll]

Lazzie can you be any less helpful.

The thread is litearlly here so it doesn't clog the other channels

If you have nothing to say go back to doing nothing

[hearty ore]

[pastel flume]

lol

[idle timber]

Magos reopened the thread, so have fun in here, just don't get too toxicated

Im leaving

[kind silo]

I'm fine with it staying locked, I think I said what I needed to say

[orchid lantern]

https://youtu.be/0LwcvjNJTuM?si=b1GNKswK_XusxZ1M 4:55

[hearty ore]

@ashen scroll is this not just the counterside version of a flat earther

[kind silo]

I'll see you all again when the next ASSR Mech gets hotfixed

[hearty ore]

https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-23548728

[ashen scroll]

I hope after all that you understand why everyone's so annoyed at you.

[kind silo]

It's not bside's fault that you think this is unfair treatment when bside releases 1-2 mechs a YEAR so any nerf to mechs represents a disproportionately large % of the mech roster.
that is true by the way, the 1-2 new units we get immediately getting gutted is what sours this

[ashen scroll]

WDYM NEW

[hearty ore]

it’s not even gutted

[ashen scroll]

What part of 41 weeks on KR is new

[hearty ore]

dino mech is crazy good

[kind silo]

oh no it doesn't really justify them posting crappy memes like Arosa here is doing

[hearty ore]

no it really does

Unfortunately

I guess some people aren’t self aware

[limpid bay]

i hate bell

[hearty ore]

I hate toh

[kind silo]

we are in the internet after all, you're free to do so

[hearty ore]

[limpid bay]

[supple hornet]

im a mech player trust

[kind silo]

Sorry, I lose track of time my bad Dinomech still feels "new" to me

[hearty ore]

TRU TRU TRU

[ashen scroll]

As long as you're aware now why no one likes the character...

You'd think 40 consecutive bans meant anything...

• a balance patch because dino was still playable at ban 4.

[pastel flume]

[kind silo]

I think what really should just go ahead and defeat me is if they make a Dinomech, but a Counter. And if people have the same energy for their hatred then yeah I completely accept I'm wrong

[ashen scroll]

You seriously need to separate the kit from the faction.

You're just going in circles.

I've already said everything as politely as I can. For the rest, just refer to what the others have said.

That would be my sentiment.

[kind silo]

Busted units that are hotfixed can't just happen to be Mechs two-three consecutive times. If they come out with a busted in urgent need of a hotfix Counter or Soldier and people with the same complaints show up, then yeah I can admit I'm wrong

Thagirion will probably do that

[mint forge]

it's not being HOTFIXED

it's been 40-some WEEKS

[kind silo]

I don't have a proper term for it

but on global is a pretty recent release, I think hotfix still kinda works

[ashen scroll]

[mint forge]

no

[kind silo]

ESL, I am from SEA

[ashen scroll]

Please just accept that this unit's been out for 41 weeks KR...

[waxen patrol]

It's been out a long while on glb too...

[ashen scroll]

It's not new...

[mint forge]

also rking was kept banned for quite a while in KR

it's not a faction thing

it's a unit thing

[kind silo]

yeah there are precedence for reworks across all. None of you got to release A.Amy and R.King

my issue was that it was the fastest with Mech and even then just a regular unit too. A.Amy and R.King got to terrorize for a while

[hearty ore]

Dino mech isn’t even a mech unit

Its best team is like 5 counters and 2 soldiers on new Detroit

[kind silo]

I am really unhappy about that Goliath man, I am not even trolling I am completely serious

[little notch]

u think goliath on release is ok?

[ashen scroll]

How many mechs is this.

Please just be objective about this.

[kind silo]

Unironically, yes. Siege teams are awesome

[ashen scroll]

It's like talking to a wall.

[limpid bay]

"Busted units that are hotfixed can't just happen to be Mechs two-three consecutive times."
if its really breaking the game, then why not? it just happens that both goliath and dino is mech, does not mean any other broken unit cannot be HOTFIXED

[hearty ore]

Haha guys I love slamming my lead fd every single game

[waxen patrol]

Poor lambda

[pastel flume]

Lambda Spatari.

[little notch]

you do realize goliath on release is broken right

[ashen scroll]

noooo but people didn't get a chance to develop counterplay for it...

[kind silo]

some of the people in the list there are in need of buffs, it's not really the same. Jisoo change is kinda sad considering people initially crapped on her too and now she finally finds a use and then gets reworked

[ashen scroll]

jesus

ok.

[kind silo]

and now he's just completely unusuable. It's also sad

[little notch]

You do know if Goliath isn't hotfixed c;s can literally die

When your ship dies to Goliath in 2-3 hits

[kind silo]

cause mechs don't sell but waifus do, proving my point that the hatred for Mechs exist

this used to be an Urban Fantasy Gacha game

[ashen scroll]

Goliath was playable as siege until only recently with the ship buffs. You can't expect a unit to be playable forever. It had a good run. This is normal of any live-service PVP game. You don't need to treat them as an exception just because they're your favorite faction.

[kind silo]

I believed in the game's unique novelty of being able to run a non-waifu team to trash on waifu teams in PVP

[kind silo]

Yes characters do have shelf lives and can't ever be evergreen, unless you're Chifuyu or Yang Harim

[little notch]

Well I'm glad you are not a game developer in b;side

[kind silo]

but seriously I do agree they shouldn't be good forever

[hearty ore]

No one uses regular chifuyu anymore

[kind silo]

cause Ciel is Chifuyu 2.0

[mint forge]

[idle timber]

He's not wrong either

It's probably the only vaguely correct take he ever done

[lyric dirge]

I think you have all made your points and the argument is not going anywhere, the thread will be locked

[idle timber]

Adeptus Mechanicus is wacc