Charge is just
#esports-discussion
pearl stratus
Chengdu looked much much better than last year.
Adding Leave into the roster is huge for them.
It filled almost every issue on their dps.
sullen berry
remember valiant? How they were "still a good roster" despite soon moving to Eternal?
minor flame
Chengdu was sticking on meta for invitational right?
pearl stratus
Jinmu + Leave is going to be stupid.
Yeah, with some variations
They did a little ball + winston for a bit.
sullen berry
bruh I can agree with charge being slightly disappointing, just take it as it is
pearl stratus
Which was entertaining.
sullen berry
still early days adapting without HOTBA
minor flame
I do have some hopes for Charge and chengdu with some unconventional comps
Team China def showed alot of that
pearl stratus
despite it being a 4-0 Shanghai v. Chengdu the matches were mostly pretty close.
One of those situations where the score doesn't tell the whole story.
What was interesting to see is Moon had his DPS running almost identical to the Crusty type of play.
All of the DPS got rotated in for maps/roles.
And looked fluid.
Dding had learned Mei, etc.
sullen berry
Oh, how there was a time they weren't
minor flame
Does Chengdu need another tank?
sullen berry
that eroded pretty quickly
minor flame
Its Ameng and Jiqiren atm right?
pearl stratus
I don't think Chengdu needs another.
pearl stratus
then Elsa and Lateyoung
minor flame
Ah
pearl stratus
They're pretty well covered.
pearl stratus
If they pick up Coldest like rumored they'll be fine.
sullen berry
"main tank"
pearl stratus
Ameng plays Ball Orisa and Rein at this point.
sullen berry
in that order of preference
minor flame
Jiqiren is just a sub at that point?
pearl stratus
I think he's there for a meta where Winston might come back, etc.
Since Ameng can't play Winston at all lol
sullen berry
oh we're playing that game huh
minor flame
I forgot the other support
pearl stratus
Coldest is Chinese Jjonak, for all intents and purposes.
He's a definitely upgrade over Kyo.
Yveltal you don't need to replace, he's an insane MS.
pearl stratus
YXL didn't play
Which makes sense.
Bjack only played a map or two.
Really no place for Hitscans in this meta.
Also Leave is realistically their best hitscan.
And their best flex.
And probably their best support and tank.
Joking on the last bit.
sullen berry
minor flame
CN Hydration
sullen berry
smashing it with the 4K
pearl stratus
No.
That'd be an insult to leave.
Leave literally plays -every- dps to a very high level.
Doesn't matter if its hitscan or flex.
sullen berry
and that's what the chinese scene could really use right now
minor flame
I was joking about that support and tank bit
sullen berry
one without a lot of baggage
pearl stratus
Widow, Tracer, McCree, Doomfist, Mei, Junkrat, Genji, Reaper
sullen berry
technically JJonak before he climbed ladder to OWL
minor flame
what does charge need to get
Cause it seems like alot of their roster would need some changing except for like
Shu
sullen berry
what about
pearl stratus
Their roster I think is fine, I think they just need more time.
They hadn't started practicing in the off-season.
sullen berry
Rise was going to be Shu's replacement you know
minor flame
Maybe Chara
pearl stratus
Which is why they didn't show up strong in the Invitational.
You could tell that Shanghai had been.
sullen berry
some if not most of GZ was on offseason breaks and had less than the weekend in china to practice
most of it was getting familiar with cr0ng, nep and wya
minor flame
Oh yeah i forgot they were going mixed
pearl stratus
I would like them to get a back up tank.
sullen berry
GZ will always be mixed
pearl stratus
But thats just because I don't think any team shouldn't have one.
They're running on.. 4 supports? Right now
And 2 tanks
sullen berry
wya/neptuno/chara/shu
pearl stratus
Nero, Happy and Eileen are a great dps set up, don't really need to mess with that.
Yeah i think just getting a back up tank would be all they really need.
sullen berry
so you have a chinese flex
spanish main support/competent in-game lead
korean flex
korean main/captain
pick two
I find the tank situation is at such a loss
pearl stratus
You're realistically never dropped Shu from that line up.
Shu is by far their most consistent and strongest support.
sullen berry
shu would adapt slightly better than chara in the whole mixed roster scenario
pearl stratus
Wya could be interesting though.
sullen berry
that Toronto Esports jam with Nero still punching up good team stats
pearl stratus
Because I remember him being a pretty strong off-tank.
So he could become a weird swing player.
sullen berry
exactly the fire they need honestly, if not to fill the void of a flexible tank
pearl stratus
Bot 5 is very up for grabs imo.
People are attributing too much power to player names, and not cohesion etc.
There's a lot of teams that are going for very new, or mixed rosters.
sullen berry
seriously what the fuck would register as bottom 5
pearl stratus
Which could settle them all over the place.
Like Paris for instance,
Could do well in this new mixed roster.
Or it could fail horribly.
So I'd slot them anywhere from like.. 8 to 20.
All depends how the integration goes lol
Houston and Paris are both going mixed for realistically the first time.
So they're wild cards.
Toronto is going in with a relatively untested coaching staff.
sullen berry
for context, they are playing with more korean rosters right now in their off-season
https://clips.twitch.tv/SaltyKathishFishPhilosoraptor
pearl stratus
LAV and Boston are doing their weird money ball thing.
Philly picked up more Koreans, and too many dps.
sullen berry
loosely speaking, some HZ players
pearl stratus
There's tons of what ifs.
I don't think any power ranking from.. 5-20 is going to be really accurate.
Only things I'd say for certain are:
Shock are still most likely going to be very strong.
NYXL should still be doing fine in the group stages.
Dragons look to be strong.
That's ti.
Those are the only things I'd say with any certainty lol
sullen berry
everyone else has to prove themselves
minor flame
How does Floridas roster look like
pearl stratus
Pretty solid overall.
sullen berry
quite nice on paper!
pearl stratus
LIP was quite amazing honestly.
WAY better than I expected.
Since he never stood out on BlossoM.
minor flame
People expected him to be a downgrade of Dding right?
sullen berry
LIP, Leejaegon and Leave stood out
minor flame
Jae Won
pearl stratus
Moon said he picked him up because he had a lot of potential and just needed coaching.
limber pine
LIP will probably mainly swap with Fleta
pearl stratus
And it looks like Moon was right.
pearl stratus
Dding showed massive improvement too though.
Especially on his Reaper/Mei
Where he looked very weak in Stage 4 of last year.
pearl stratus
I wasn't super impressed, but he didn't make any glaring mistakes either.
limber pine
true
pearl stratus
His halts were good.
I like the concept that they may be grooming Geguri to be a general tank back up too.
Her Orisa looked solid for the map they played her at Main Tank
Void was another player who stood out to me.
Much stronger looking play than his Glad run in Stage 4 in this meta.
limber pine
i can't decide watching if Hamster/Dva is going to work for Chengdu
it seems really inconsistent in this meta
pearl stratus
I liked their Hamster Winston.
And I think that might work better for them post patch.
limber pine
yeah hamster winston seemed better
pearl stratus
Leave pulling out Widow was kind of disgusting too.
I know he's been grinding it on ladder.
But that 180 headshot in the hallway on Kings Row was just stupid.
trim shadow
Endo why u dont believe in atlanta to be too 5? I would say theyre guranteed if erster maintains form and ofc theres gator hawk which was a bonkers duo in contenders and i believe will stay bonkers
Especially in a rein orisa meta
Gators rein is top notch
minor flame
I dont expect rein orisa to be meta
trim shadow
My top 5 is san fransicso vancouver Atlanta new york and chengdu
My bottom is paris Boston dallas Valiant houston
pearl stratus
Atlanta didn't fix their major gaps for what I saw as their failings.
They should have more reliable dps now.
But, and I'm 100% going to say this every time -
trim shadow
According to brad there is a 12 man roster so its likely well get flex and MS backups
Ideally i wouldve signed sleepy and coma
pearl stratus
Dogman stop gaps them because he needs to be coached to maturity and self discipline. Until that happens I will never not see him as a liabiltiy on the line.
limber pine
They live and die with the Dogman
pearl stratus
Also while I don't think there's inherently anything wrong with Gator/Hawk as a duo its a tank line that's predominantly been raised on a specific meta.
If shield meta were completely gone tomorrow how would they fare? It's the same for any contenders players who came in via goats.
If suddenly tomorrow it became... Hammond Winston as the meta tanks.
Now that's a big what if.
raw ermine
Chengdu ez win
pearl stratus
But I like to look into players for the what ifs to the meta.
pearl stratus
OWL S1 you still needed amazing tanks.
trim shadow
Mei reaper are kinda broken so probably..
pearl stratus
I'd say the same thing about players like Fusions btw.
raw ermine
they are super counter dive
pearl stratus
Just like we had to watch Dive players adapt to shields from S1 to S2.
We'd be watching shield players adapt to dive etc for S2 to S3.
trim shadow
If dive comes back itll probably be ball winston tracer sombra Mercy moira or something along the lines
minor flame
God not again
pearl stratus
And I'm not saying its going to happen, or its likely to happen.
I'm more saying its hard to get a solid read on sign ups who looked good from Goats as we transition to 2-2-2.
minor flame
I doubt Sombra and Tracer would ever come alive in the same comp
minor flame
Howd it go
trim shadow
Sombra still has arguably one of the best iniator ults among the dps
limber pine
it was "okay"
pearl stratus
Brig's shield makes it no longer a 100% counter win.
It's not always ideal, but she's not a tank anymore.
So its balanced out well. It still shuts down a dive.
limber pine
but I wouldn't expect Fleta to play sombra when they have LIP
pearl stratus
But between the tracer fall off increase, and brigs shield only being 200 health
You can at least manage around it.
But again that's all theoreticals.
I don't think Atlanta will be bad, btw.
I think they'll be in the top half.
I just don't want to commit them to a top 5.
minor flame
Im not sure what to say about Vancouver
trim shadow
I think dding will still be the sombra specialist for shanghai
minor flame
Vancouver looks kinda weird after their last match
trim shadow
I would argue hes still the best sombra in the world
Between atlanta and philly and YOU CAN SAY houston but there tank line is still iffy
Theese 3 are kinda prepared for anything
If gator hawk cant do a dive esq comp you still have pokpo FRD
pearl stratus
Vancouver depends a lot on if the rumors are true.
And that everyone is upset with Bumper being released.
That kind of mental can ruin a season despite the talent.
minor flame
Fissure is a huge hit or miss next season
Im still iffy about him despite his apologies
trim shadow
Id imagine it will since when runaway first signed id imagine they thought they would all stick together
I wouldve kept bumper and let fissure coach bumper on how to be a owl MT
minor flame
Fissure coach lol
trim shadow
But theres still a good amount of places bumper can land to learn MT
Like houston Hell florida
minor flame
Apparently bumpers rumored to already be on a team
trim shadow
I think it was shanghai but thats a reach
pearl stratus
Yeah the Shanghai rumored was, so far, turned down. Including by the owner of Shanghai.
trim shadow
I think itll either be florida or houston
Houston cause harsha is there and id imagine they have a close friendship
New york could fit there but new york is 12 man deep at this point i believe
pearl stratus
Yeah, but a lot of teams are doing that.
Also I personally expect a RUI-less Chengdu to drop YXL.
minor flame
Same
trim shadow
After this next patch the meta will@probably be in a state of chaos that jeff wants so im started to understand filling out the dps position to cover every hero
minor flame
YXL seems to be outclassed at this point
pearl stratus
YXL was expected to rebound like Leave did.
trim shadow
If krystal and billibilli worked something out or didnt i can see yxl being traded to the pink boys
pearl stratus
And I think coming back into Goats kind of killed that.
I think he still could, now that its a DPS meta.
But I can also understand them not wanting to wait anymore.
minor flame
I just cant really chart down to YXLs issues
It might be communicative or just horrible ult usage
pearl stratus
Not heroes he normally plays, really.
If you look at what he played
When he played Widow and McCree?
Dude was fine.
Plink plink.
But he did not adjust to Sombra well, at all.
minor flame
Seems like he just has awful timing on heroes that rely on cds
trim shadow
Pubg will do that to you
He probably had to relearn the flow of overwatch
and like endo said goats didnt help that
pearl stratus
If I had to pick between him or BJack right now though
I'd probably pick BJack.
he impressed me quite a bit honestly.
Had some very legit pop offs.
minor flame
What dps is spark likely to sign
pearl stratus
I was hoping they'd go for Yaki or Gangnam
minor flame
Isnt Gangnam picked up or am I thinking of the wrong one
pearl stratus
They're both on Florida now.
minor flame
Lol
pearl stratus
Shy would be great too, but I think he's still too young.
minor flame
Isnt he like 16
pearl stratus
he's 17, but just turned.
Bilibili actually has some solid dps on their Contenders team.
trim shadow
Hangzhou’s best bet is for a mutual agreement with krystal which again might not happen or try and get chengdu to sell them one of there dps
Cause godsB and bazzi are easily the worst dps duo out of that division
pearl stratus
They could still bring up Yakumo. But Yakumo overlaps with Nero pretty hard.
elder quarry
how was the minecraft face guy from Boston called?
slender lance
Which one
trim shadow
He was good at rein but i think the reason he struggled with Orisa was because of the eternal issues with boston
And the general fact his other teammates were playing like its a ranked game
And often times when one person is off it spreads
pearl stratus
Bostons biggest issues is they had no great mental supports, playing into a front line that only really knew Goats.
They rotated their support duos like tires.
Can't succeed if you can't even lock down a roster.
But its their own fault for not getting rid of Aimgod end of Season 1.
mint flower
mint flower
F
mint flower
Yeah this is gonna piss off a lot of fans
raw ermine
all this time benched just for a retirement
pearl stratus
I required googling "sad bench" for that picture.
I don't see why it would piss off fans, unless they're kinda dumb.
Literally nothing has changed.
mint flower
Well a lot of fans are dumb
raw ermine
Leaving him on the bench for a while
pearl stratus
They'll actually get to see him play more now, since he's streaming 😛
blissful heron
I fucking hate nyxl dude
Never getting over stage 3 finals of 2018, as an uprising fan. Made this 15 y/o cry dude
pearl stratus
I got to check the Redtards take on this. It's going to be hilarious.
jagged crater
nyxl already fucked up by doing the andbox shit
but rip pine tho
he was a legend
but the right move considering they werent gonna play him anyway
pearl stratus
No
jagged crater
on the offchance hitscan becomes meta
jagged crater
maybe....... but there are tons of good hitscan players
pearl stratus
The problem wasn't just his hero pool (that didn't help)
The problem was always, inherently, HOW he played those heroes.
He had a very lone wolf type of play style that should have been coached out of him.
Even on NYXL, when he played in Season 1, he was flashy but often picked because of his choice for positioning.
The S1 Widows figured that out, and the current crop of Widows would most likely exploit it.
You could tell it was something teams prepared for when we got to watch Pine get forced off Widow by Diya when NYXL was playing the 0-40 Dragons.
Tl;dr I like Pine, but he continued to play the game like it was Apex and he could make crazy widow flanks.
jagged crater
i think all 20 teams have at least one proven hitscan player
pearl stratus
And many of those are just flat out better too.
If you told me to pick between Diem and Pine it'd take me about 0.00002 seconds to make that decision.
minor flame
Maybe he should just play Apex
jagged crater
well diem is one of the best widows so that should be an easy decision
pine hasnt played an official match in over a year so he would need to greatly work on his playstyle
did he even scrim during s2?
pearl stratus
I'd also pick some contenders players before Pine too, unless it was an all korean roster.
I'd legit pick up Asking before signing Pine, for instance.
minor flame
Isnt asking a brat
pearl stratus
I think he did, and they kind of tried him on Zarya type situations.
trim shadow
P..pine no...PINEEEEEE
pearl stratus
But it ended up like putting Saya on Zarya.
jagged crater
asking is nutty (breh)
pearl stratus
Also from his last interview it seemed like Pine gave up on the game rather than attempting to adapt.
Which I blame on the NYXL coaching staff.
For letting him do that.
trim shadow
Honestly pine was outclassed but
We never really knew if pine was gonna peak
And i wouldve liked to see him get another shot on another team
pearl stratus
Again - even if hitscan was viable.
I don't think Pine would have played.
Since his play style wasn't appropriate.
jagged crater
pine and taimou are too streaky yes
balmy wolf
nyxl has nenne and sbb for widow anyway
celest spear
More or less like Taimou and Linkzr, less like Surefour.
balmy wolf
nyxl has nenne and sbb for widow anyway
celest spear
More or less like Taimou and Linkzr, less like Surefour.
balmy wolf
and cree
jagged crater
s4 and saya can at maintain more consistent levels
celest spear
^
More or less like Taimou and Linkzr, less like Surefour.
I'd say that Surefour and Saya aren't streaky per se. Pine was more streaky in the sense like Taimou and Linkzr are.
jagged crater
pine and taimou are more on the streaky side
trim shadow
S4 is extremely hot and cold
jagged crater
you're hot then you're cold
celest spear
Also, Simplicity is back: https://twitter.com/GGSimplicity/status/1203031426922426371?s=20
balmy wolf
i thought s4 was a fairly consistent player ?
jagged crater
aint just goats fault, he just not as good as other dps
north tendon
depends really, when hes in form he can dominate
celest spear
Pine actually had a really good Zarya.
north tendon
but hes a big reason a lot of people supported nyxl
celest spear
Nenne's was just better
north tendon
just disappointing
jagged crater
pjdominate
north tendon
lmao it hurts
yeah nenne zarya was really good
the grav thing was unlucky
seems he got boomed after that
celest spear
The Nenne grav was one with good intentions but got hit hard by Murphy's Law
pearl stratus
Most people meme on it as well because they have the game understanding of a dead hookers corpse.
And seem to think if he'd held it that NYXL would have won the fight
Which is wrong.
balmy wolf
^
north tendon
yeah im not surprised
balmy wolf
“nenne grav lul” every time he gravs now
pearl stratus
Fact is he made the only attempt at a play that could have won that game.
If he'd held grav the EMP would have gone off just the same, and they'd have been wiped in the doorway
Just the same.
Because the team that has 6 ults, including an EMP, wins.
pearl stratus
The casters at least understood it after the fact in explaining it
They missed the Sombra cloak with everything that was going on
So it looked weird to see him just yeet the Grav left.
On replay you clearly see Michelle going into cloak.
He just picked the wrong door.
He assumed Michelle needed more charge and would use the closest door.
north tendon
yeah unfortunate
its like one sometimes players get called out for botting out
but theres a hidden play that didnt make them manage it
balmy wolf
seoul really boomed em after that one i feel
pearl stratus
Also sometimes people do just bot out, look at someone like Lebron James.
He flat out just travels sometimes because he's thinking. He's just lucky the refs are too stupid to call it.
jagged crater
that lebron travel yesterday was hilarious
north tendon
overwatch community is pretty damn harsh with mistakes
pearl stratus
"I just kind of had a brain fart"
north tendon
even when most of them are shit in the game making way more
jagged crater
travels are ridic inconsistently called anyway, the refs rarely call it
north tendon
oh wow
pearl stratus
It's tough because it would delay the game right there - so I can see the need to not call it.
north tendon
lol
pearl stratus
It's not like he was getting aggressively D'd up.
But its just so blatant that I feel like you almost have to
jagged crater
refs getting flak for other inconsistent calls anwyay
and refusal to overturn some blatant calls
north tendon
thats one part im thankful for in overwatch
jagged crater
as a video game you dont have to deal with as many 50-50 calls that can change the outcome of the game
but there's still some written rules not defined within the game's system
at the pro level at least
trim shadow
@balmy wolf s4 was consistent when he first landed
Now dude is A tv dinner in the microwave making ww2 sounds 30 seconds into it cooking
jagged crater
did you like his hair
trim shadow
Honestly dogman has some of the best hair in the leauge
jagged crater
krillin or kyo tbh
sand violet
NBA refs are dog shit rofl
trim shadow
I guess anbox is gonna take new yorks spot for 2020
karmic grotto
k
karmic grotto
but I never see Pine streaming
trim shadow
He was mostly with the team@so
But at times he did stream
He was mostly with the team@so
balmy wolf
as far as i know nyxl is still called nyxl
jagged crater
yes
echo quest
@pearl stratus nba refs are brain dead in general
jagged crater
dont be mean!
mint flower
NFL refs are also fucking dumb
jagged crater
MLB refs?
mint flower
Or maybe blind is more accurate
pearl stratus
Part of it is from the organizations themselves and having some of the sports (especially the NBA) stop making some calls to keep the flow of the game feeling intact.
Imagine if OW had to stop for dumb shit every few minutes?
Twitch would go from full blown autism to something somehow insanely worse.
They'd be so god awful they would make the Pope Pro-choice, full blown 180 on the idea in 3 minutes of Twitch chat.
jagged crater
we'd have commercials every minute 🙂
echo quest
@pearl stratus that I understand but when they won’t reverse decisions after reviews is complete bullshit
mint flower
Also Shanghai wouldn't sign one western player
supple prism
i wouldnt want to join a Chinese team
trim shadow
Well guangzhou signed neptuno so
MonkaS
I wouldnt wanna join a CN team cause if ur outside of shanghai or guangzhou the living is shit
celest spear
Guangzhou already had a mixed roster in mind, as they had 6 Korean players (Rio, Hotba, Chara, Happy, Shu, Rise), Two Chinese players (Eileen and OnlyWish), a brit (Kyb) and an American (Nero)
and later a Finn (Fragi) and another Korean player (Bischu)
tropic herald
Just living in China is wack
trim shadow
Id imagine in neptunos case
It was the highest paying offer
And he just said fuck it
balmy wolf
probs the only offered he got that was worthwhile
possible charge was the only one to offer him a starting spot
trim shadow
I cant imagine neptuno only having 1 offer on the table
Id imagine atlanta toronto maybe boston wouldve gave him looks
celest spear
Toronto didn't want to trial him because they thought that he was toxic
sand violet
^
He said he was struggling to get trials
So it's entirely possible it was his only owl offer
jagged crater
is neptuno your boi?
hidden vault
Why would guanzhou go for nepotuno tho?
hidden vault
Rights and rise dropped
echo quest
Idk how tf space OGE better than Guxue and ria
sullen berry
they aren't an unknown quantity
but they haven't played any games together on stage to back that up
hot heart
What tier list is this of?
hidden vault
Tank duos
balmy wolf
dont agree with that
see just imagine
if fusion got a MT even fractionally better than sado
they'd have S tier tank duo
cos fury
HOW is muma Meko about sado fury
lime owl
pearl stratus
Muma can play more than one tank.
While Sado can play one tank and a half.
I have no clue who that kid is either, but its a very very bad tier list.
And if people trust it I kind of understand how trump supporters work because you're just taking the dumbest shit said as truth.
trim shadow
Wouldnt that be
Liberals 
Modern day politics in general is dumb shit
But most of the tank couples are one sided where one we know is good and one is unproven
mint flower
pearl stratus
Shanghai is one of the teams that don't announce things until full league approval, nott hat we've seen something be lost.
But they definitely wait till i's and t's are taken care of before they announce.
raw ermine
I think he was trying to do that " dot your i's and cross your t's" thing
earnest leaf
Twitter
limber pine
Expected
swift moth
bro
pearl stratus
Hasn't been there forever, super old news.
Diya looks like he's put some weight on, it looks good on him.
Whats interesting is they still haven't announced if they're doing anything with Creed.
Which makes my thought of Creed going over to Chengdu potentially more of a thing.
pearl stratus
Taimou should have two years ago.
I respect that Jake wasn't willing to just collect a paycheck for something he wasn't 100% into anymore.
But if Dallas was willing to pay my trash ass money to sit there and be less useful than a zipchair
I'd probably do it too.
short sparrow
Pls say he's becoming a full-time caster
pearl stratus
He also said he wasn't out of the OW scene though.
So I'm guessing he'll be continuing to do more casting.
He's done OWWC twice in a row now, some contenders.
And he gets really positive feedback every time he does.
He's paired with both ZP, and Lemonkiwi very well.
raw ermine
true
worn falcon
I think Jake it's more suitable as caster than coaching 
raw ermine
or a bronze to gm Junk 1 trick
trim shadow
He could become a caster more then likely
But that jake to atlanta rumor hasnt been disproven
at least not to my knowledge
Could mean analyst or players coach
sand violet
Why would he move to coaching when he has proven success and drive for casting
Just seems kinda weird
minor flame
Jake being on the desk or caster would be a pretty free spot for him
mint flower
also he cites travel as a factor to his retirement, so i wouldnt think he'd be looking to be on a team rn
raw ermine
He wouldn't wanna travel for casting, no?
trim shadow
I would be looking forward to travel
Kinda weird someone retires and travel is one of their main reasons
pearl stratus
It sounds like he already dislikes how much of his life he missed in terms of relationships.
Travel makes that worse. Especially short term repeated travel.
balmy wolf
OWL travel is now reaching cs go travel for events
and that shit is rough for everyone
actually its worse in cs go for some teams
when one tournament ends their already on a flight to another event that starts in 24 hrs
trim shadow
Csgo is actually death travel
Its ridiculous that u go from Oakland to new york to Amsterdam to london
I think even i would retire
pearl stratus
The counter balance is OWL had less travel but infinitely more preparation to make.
CSGO, at its core, really hasn't changed much. Seagull made this point at a time. To some extent you have to work on maps etc, but OW has different heroes, different maps, different balance changes, different teams.
raw ermine
yeah
csgo- few balances, lot of maps
LOL-lot of balances/characters,1 map
OW-lots of both
balmy wolf
I argue beyond core game mechanics, prep against other teams is the same across all esports
If you keep traveling back to back in CS, you're gonna get outstratted at 1 point due to not having a break in between
trim shadow
Honestly i have no clue how csgo esports is still going when theres almost no change in how its played
Csgo has only had 2 map changes in its almost 9 year lifespan in terms of the pro pool
pearl stratus
I argue the prep can be a bit different due to hero pools.
I.E. Stage 3 prepping against Chengdu was not like prepping against Dragons which was not like prep against Shock.
Individual players may cause a slight adjustment in CSGO, but not on the same level.
balmy wolf
prep is also different for csgo
you focus on how their style is on maps and what they favor in economy
it tough across all games for prep
trim shadow
I mean
Its either theyre hyper aggresive
They double stack or play split
And thats about it..and the ecenomy system isnt hard to figure out
balmy wolf
huh
every team has a very distinct way of playing as a group and individually
astralis is a team that focus more on usage on grenades and taking the most calcuated risks possible
A team like mibr focus more on taking slow pushes with a lurker who always goes by himself
I can say the very same thing about overwatch and how its economy works in terms of winning
sand violet
Csgo esports hasn't died because it's player base has always been more hardcore than most since the game isn't very approachable by casuals. The fan base was also built over years and years and game after game rather than just 1 game turning into an esports after a year. There also isn't really a game that fills the niche of playing csgo which translates into no game that fills the niche of watching csgo
So mostly 1. Hardcore player base 2. Large, aged player base 3. No similar competition
trim shadow
Well see what riots project A will say
balmy wolf
idk how you're exactly gonna touch cs go as an esport
cs go is a polished, refined, game where if similar competition is brought it up it has to be good as cs go right off launch to stand a chance against it
hidden vault
Hence more stable
trim shadow
For csgo ofc
celest spear
From Mayhem scrims: https://twitter.com/yeHHH/status/1203603784183603202?s=09
raw ermine
Soldier lmao
"I've got you vibes in my sights"
I would be happy to see a winston-ball meta
sounds fun
mint flower
Twitter
mint flower
Just season 1
raw ermine
are matt and spree FA?
mint flower
No they're both under contract
According to the overwatch league contract status page
raw ermine
hmm
celest spear
Mayhem is in Korea with a lot of other teams (ex: Fusion and Paris)
The go who posted the tweet is yeHHH, the team manager, who said that the meta is kind of up in the air at the moment
pearl stratus
Being in contract doesn't mean anything though
You gotta remember that.
If they agree to cancel his contract and move one to coaching its done.
Or if one chooses to retire you can release it, etc.
celest spear
or they could just sell his contract to another team
raw ermine
I doubt another team would buy either
balmy wolf
who do yall think is gonna replace jakes spot?
tropic herald
If anything they gonna sign more tanks or supports
celest spear
Houston only has 1 spot left
balmy wolf
raw ermine
Scrim god returns
balmy wolf
back when xepher was on seoul he was pretty meh on the stage, tho his coach trying to save his image told us he was a scrim god and thats why he is being played
hidden vault
I cannot understand why xepher was picked up in the 1st place???
raw ermine
He was decent, and that was good enough for seoul since the have lunatic hai
balmy wolf
the timeframe between apex and OWL wasnt big
but it was enough to really allow other teams to get better
we all thought dallas was a title contender in s1
after all they just won the contenders series in a sweep
same with lunatic hai, back to back apex champions
sand violet
God Dallas became such a shit show
balmy wolf
LH didnt win season 4, but it was pretty obvious they got picked for the league
and Envy literally steamrolled contenders looking like the best NA team
So they had high expectations
hidden vault
The 1st contenders was during the owl
If you are talking about pre season yeah they beat seoul and got 1st
trim shadow
S1 dallas monkaS
gentle shuttle
chipsa and dafran have the best ow ranked friendship ever lmfao
balmy wolf
I'm not talking about the preseason. There was literally contenders 2017 which happend before the OWL. That's where envyus won. After that tournament the roster became DF. The preseason is worthless.
jagged crater
is chipsa going to korea to train or what?
if not that going to further cement he aint getting played ever
celest spear
ChipSa is still in EU right now, I believe
jagged crater
so visa issues?
jagged crater
are fuel in korea?
celest spear
No
fair veldt
Ooh
mint flower
trim shadow
Lul
broken shadow
Any low silver to high gold players looking for a team add and dm me @Drago#4798
raw ermine
@broken shadow #lfg-pc-na-ranked #lfg-pc-eu-ranked
broken shadow
@raw ermine what?
jagged crater
dont think ive ever seen jake on widow
then he pulled it out on stream and was like doing pretty good
raw ermine
If you are looking for people to play with put your messages in those chats, or the appropriate one for your platform.
broken shadow
Oh okay I got you.
balmy wolf
Let's be honest, most owl dps are atleast decent with widow, but then there are legendary widow players like Carpe, Pine, Sayaplayer, etc.
raw ermine
of course
they are OWL level for a reason
they don't sign silver players
When ppl call players "bad" at widow in owl, it means they aren't as good as everyone else in there
jagged crater
Ofc, they wouldn't sign dpses who max out at GM too. Ib colourhex
blissful heron
We slandering my boy chex?
celest spear
I'd keep Harry. It's probably Taimou or Mickie leaving
Also, Boston juice from HuK...
Former HSL main support Ascoft was signed as a coach
Boston will have a 12 man roster announced by Christmas
trim shadow
Mickie probably retiring or sum shit
midnight delta
when is the overwatch league starting again
celest spear
February 8th at 1 PM EST, I believe
slender lance
Do you guys think taimou could be on any other team
hot heart
No
Maybe contenders
But thats even an if
He's weirdly bad on stage most of the time
But his streams are just him popping off
@slender lance
little silo
under different coaches that actually try to make him improve he could maybe grind his way into OWL again but that depends on him
as of now he's super inconsistent on stage and barely played in S2
so there's no real sample size
But I personally think he's not good enough to join another team and be a starting player rn
blissful heron
I think you misinterpreted huk @celest spear. From what I remember, he is happy with the 9 man setup as of now, but will sign talent if he sees fit.
celest spear
He had an AMA yesterday where he said we'd have a 12 man roster by Christmas. I cant share the summary here since it's a reddit link
blissful heron
I watched the whole thing myself. I don't question whether or not you watched, that's just what I got out of it, saying he was fine with the support line as 2, dps as 3...
pearl stratus
He's fine with it because he doesn't want to sign numbers for numbers sake.
But he did say he wanted a full 12 man roster to help with burn out
But he isn't going to sign just anyone because of it.
Which is a smart way to look at it.
celest spear
An apt response from the president of gaming 5Head
pearl stratus
HuK's kind of a dick, but I at least respect him for typically being pretty honest across the board.
blissful heron
I beg to differ. He's grown as a person throughout his tenure. He made massive mistakes in management and was adamant about getting them through, but that doesn't make him bad.
slender lance
Huk is Huk
mint flower
Wait so axxiom is starting over fusions as of now?
pearl stratus
I would bet so.
If its not Rein Fusions isn't that great at it.
He's a Rein with solid IGL.
If he's helped Axxiom grow at that part, you'll likely get better results
minor flame
Seeing as the meta has some rein orisa
He will inevitably get some play
but that inevitably is subject to change
mint flower
IGL?
celest spear
In game leader
Fusions was shotcalling for the most part in Season 2. Swimmer will probably shotcall if Fusions isn't playing
mint flower
Icic
celest spear
We've done it lads, horse is gone:
https://twitter.com/OverwatchNaeri/status/1204441412466442242
limber pine
those are the ptr patch notes no?
celest spear
These are apparently the one's going to live
worn falcon
@limber pine some stuff were changed, PTR is different to the apparently live patch
mint flower
So they nerfed the barrier and removed the buff to her primary fire?
limber pine
but the only thing they removed from the PTR to today's patch is the Fusion Driver buff
worn falcon
yep
limber pine
we knew these were the changes
a month ago
I was confused because Eisen was posting them like they were surprising or something.
worn falcon
i didnt knew that part when they removed Fusion Driver, that's new for me
celest spear
^ That's why I posted it. The Fusion driver speed buff is seemingly removed.
pearl stratus
That doesn't remove her.
Orisa is just the best OT in the game now.
Instead of MT.
It'll help the dumpster people SR's more than the high level ones.
gentle shuttle
echo quest
Rein orisa incoming baby
pearl stratus
I'm not sold on Rein Orisa, especially with the two of them leaving the PTR a little slower.
Rein picked up a 5% speed nerf for his shield (since he was faster than Brig)
With a rise of Mei/Hanzo that 5% speed is actually a big deal.
Orisa just has so much damn eHP now with the armor and fortify changes I expect her to stay around more than not.
alpine birch
Super random question that my googlefu can't seem to answer, but when Winston Ultimates in OWL does he turn red as usual or Team color?
limber pine
red i believe
alpine birch
thanks, I was trying to find it but every ult was from winston player's camera
trim shadow
If orisa and rein got stuffed removed then the tank line will stay sigma orisa
And well be in a weaker shield meta
mint flower
so do the rein and orisa changes come with the winter event?
worn falcon
@pearl stratus I think some coachs and players doesnt like that combo, i agree with this: ```"I will keep on saying that Rein/Orisa is trash until the day they stop playing it. It's such a bad combo. ...
Why is it bad?
Because Orisa is a premium Torb turret that has fortify, while Rein gets blasted and killed, and then everyone else dies. Orisa won't die, but everyone else will. She is basically just a Torb turret. And you can replace that easily with a different off tank, like D.Va, like Zarya, like Roadhog." ```
mint flower
trim shadow
Cringe
gentle shuttle
rusha where's the pharah pfp
slender lance
So glads are going to have at least 10 players
Any thought of who could be the 10th
I’m thinking leaf would be good
trim shadow
Last i heard leaf had no offers but yes
Leaf would be ideal
But if u look at the build of there roster
Oge space cloudy bird Mirror Paintbrush shaz goose And someone else
Theyre going for depth and not a b time like alot of teams seeming to be doing
upper niche
huh? The patch notes I read this morning said armour damage was increased from 2, not from 3.
And I distinctly remember reading it and thinking '2'? That seems odd, I thought it was higher.
celest spear
Blizz made a lot of errors with the patch notes but edited them now.
upper niche
Bugs in the patch notes. Sounds about right.
hexed igloo
i heard rumors of fischer joining them
cause of all of the glads members following him
but that could just be nothing
trim shadow
Would be likely cuz academy benefits
hidden vault
Also means sleepy would not be picked up
Also the dad said called up
Probably promoted
trim shadow
But you never know
Its gonna be a 12 man roster
Which could mean A team B team
Or depth
hidden vault
There's dogman
short sparrow
Kodak could just be retiring or joining another contenders team...
Also, what about Perfact?
hidden vault
Your reasoning?
hot heart
Idk i just have this feeling @hidden vault
Partly cuz of the edison and sharP signings
Doggoman too
tropic herald
ATL has a good dps line and a strong tank line
Hawk is probably one of the best non Korean OTs
mint flower
hidden vault
they will have to drop either krusie or grey
limber pine
fdgod would be their 12th
hidden vault
if they are planning to keep 3 main supports
or maybe there's no such thing as main and flex or off anymore
maybe not yet but I do see we will move to such in the future
pearl stratus
Main/Flex Supports are probably the most transversed roles, I would say.
Also that being said I played like.. 10-15 games last night.
And my biggest take away is that Orisa is just stronger than before.
Her shields are not, so there's more overall potential for picks.
But her as a character is still busted af with her eHP.
I think US wise we'll end up with Orisa Sig Bap Zen with Mei and Hanzo.
hidden vault
US?
jagged crater
at least zen is back 😮
hidden vault
yeah thanks for the correction sprite I was under the impression that grey was a main
since checked
pearl stratus
Yeah US as in the Region.
I don't think China or Korea will have the same meta this time around, I agree with Dpei.
Mostly because China rarely does.
And I think Korea will work in more ball/winston.
hidden vault
i see
jagged crater
people like to be doom and gloom with the next possible meta but yknow im willin to give it a chance that it can change anytime before the next big balance patch 🙂
pearl stratus
I don't think its necessarily doom and gloom
It still plays faster now with the new shield health etc.
limber pine
i would assume because kruise is cemented as the starter.
pearl stratus
Right now the Mei wall is more annoying than the shields, imo.
I think it'd be nice if they removed the segmenting of her walls, and just made it a pile of shared HP.
trim shadow
And kruise will continue to be below average
limber pine
i'm not saying he deserves to be cemented as the starter
just saying that he is
I would say though that Paris had a lot of issues last year, and kruise was not at the top of the list
IMO
trim shadow
To me kruise was third
pearl stratus
He was about as effective as Dogman in the long run. Got a lot of shit, definitely wasn't a great support.
But there were other issues too.
trim shadow
The team had no zarya basically sl
And they never meshed
And they changed their core to much
And then ofc kruise and ben/cloudy were playing below average
In all paris shouldve been the EU chengdu
Instead of trying to be “the” goats team
balmy wolf
@pearl stratus wtf? dogman is crazy good
jagged crater
dawgman
limber pine
dogman's style of play is very feast or famine
he's great when he's on point, but detrimental to his team when he's not
his ult usage last year was also not spectacular.
pearl stratus
He also was, single handedly, responsible for the two losses at the end of Stage 2 and his slump in 3. I don't do rose colored glasses. All of which set his team behind for their placement in the end.
balmy wolf
was definitly one of the best moiras
pearl stratus
Someone should have given Erster control of his Q and they would have had a much better record, including earlier defeats of the Shock.
balmy wolf
yeah your right, i thought you meant next season
pearl stratus
No, it was a comparison of him vs. Kruise in Season 2.
balmy wolf
ah ok
little silo
There's nothing wrong with Kodak but idk if Atlanta will promote him instead of someone else
He has proven himself and is familiar with the org though
jagged crater
Daco not there to talk shit, so kodak would be more confident
hidden vault
who is gloom? lol
sullen berry
Could be a reaper
hidden vault
raw ermine
Who is maricloude? SBB? Whoru? or what
little silo
SBB
jagged crater
i watched the vod from fitzy's pov, they surprisingly did alright despite losing
wasnt full held or anything
trim shadow
raw ermine
where does it say that?
sullen berry
That sounds ridiculous
sullen berry
Thought he was saying this after watching him on the 9s
pearl stratus
People are reading WAY too much into the Uber thing.
He's not saying he's moving today or even tomorrow.
sullen berry
And it goes without saying
raw ermine
Yeah
sullen berry
It's a podcast
pearl stratus
he's just saying he's not stupid enough to just stick to one game forever.
raw ermine
I doubt he will leave soon
pearl stratus
Which should be EVERYONE's viewpoint on just about anything.
raw ermine
It makes sense
raw ermine
probably
pearl stratus
It's also a matter of growth, etc.