catching games at 5 pm for me
#esports-discussion
trim shadow
pearl stratus
Say they fly out 8pm from Beijin on Sunday.
trim shadow
getting 4-5 hours of sleep to catch a shanghai hangzhou game at 4 in the morning
trim shadow
im curious as to how the leauge will do casting
like if theyll have a central hub in los angeles
and have casters spread out
pearl stratus
From what it sounds like duos are just being sent to cast those games
balmy wolf
Hmm...
Would like the games be played on the main OWL twitch?
Like say the games in Asia
trim shadow
duo's will cast both games?
balmy wolf
and if so would it be in english or would they do it in the language of whatever venue they're in
karmic grotto
pearl stratus
My guess is, since there's going to be times where games are on the same day in different regions.
trim shadow
i would assume wolf and hex will cast the majority of asia games
karmic grotto
Pls not hex
pearl stratus
So maybe.. Uber and Hex go to Korea, while Wolf and Achilios go to China.
Er Uber and Mr. X, whatever.
pearl stratus
I think they also mentioned adding more casters too.
There's some casters from EU and AU that are decent. I like the AU contenders casters honestly.
balmy wolf
would the casters be bilingual or speak the language of the country they're in like the korean and chinese
pearl stratus
No, they'll most likely have their own casters.
Like they do currently.
Just easier when it comes to events like that.
OWL already has Korean/Chinese casters.
trim shadow
Honestly the korean and Cn casters are more hype
Always hve been
Its just they speak k o r e a m
Or mandarin
upper niche
@balmy wolf Matches broadcast on Twitch.tv will be broadcast in English by the A/B broadcast team.
trail lodge
I hate this us team
I hate how Aero is the coach
I hate how Stratus isn't on the team
I hate how Rawkus is still playing for them
I hate how Space is playing over Frd
balmy wolf
DPS is fine, stratus might not even trial out at all. Space is still in contention of being the best western off-tank. Aero being coach is a shame.
trail lodge
Frd is the best non kr hog
Sinatraa is kinda an iffy pick
Because his hero pool dosent suit the meta
If Crusty wasnt coaching Sfs Sinatraa would permanently on the bench
I dont really feel like Aero is a coach that can take advantage of Sinatraa
jagged crater
Who is actual mvp this season
balmy wolf
Depends on how you look at it.
jagged crater
Stage 1-3 prob sinatraa?
balmy wolf
I would argue choi is the mvp of the season
jagged crater
Ma boi Choi
balmy wolf
Dude has not drop off in performance ever since he was in the starting 6
And is rn the best hog and dva in the league.
jagged crater
Nevix deserves a start (on another team)
balmy wolf
Nevix would have to be on the team next season.
jagged crater
Dayum shame
balmy wolf
Seems like double shield is gonna be in OWL, which means Nevix has a high chance being in.
balmy wolf
I doubt choi is grinding sigma while at the same time playing on the starter 6.
trim shadow
The weak link on Team@usa is obviously Rawkus
But super over fctfction?
I mean if sigma Orisa or sigma rein is meta sure
But whats the likely hood of sigma Rein being the main tank duo?
balmy wolf
Sigma orisa is already the meta.
trim shadow
and unless super has been
going ape shit on sigma
over Choi
usa is weak in both tank and support
it looks like
we have the best widow NA and someone who can play doom
they will single handily win us the game without us playing
no wonder dogman decided to call out aero...he probably knew about who got the nod
balmy wolf
corey is hitscan with hanzo, ksf is the most flexible, sinatraa is mix of both but not as deep in one area or another
Saying sinatraa can only play doom is really you just ignoring sinatraa's hero pool
Cohesion between team mates is arguably the most important thing in a team.
Looking at skill alone without assessing how they work with each other is idiotic.
jagged crater
is rawkus actually the weak link or is are we too meme on him
balmy wolf
Well his zen is weak, but everything else is ok. It was made worse due to his shitty performances in the goats meta.
On ana thought he's great.
pearl stratus
Out of the available flex supports and what has happened he is not the weak point. Most of the roster choices make sense based on what we knew.
Beyond that its mostly just ignorant people running their mouths.
And overprioritizing one stage.
trim shadow
rawkus has always been a quiet kind of guy
didnt make flashy plays that often but we know we can
trim shadow
its more...hes playing with moth
pearl stratus
The dps picked all make legitimate sense
trim shadow
and moth is flashy/skilled and everything inbetween
you have this hyper aggresive team in
super sinatraa corey and space
and then theres rawkus who looks like the ark of the team
pearl stratus
I actually think Super wasn't the best choice for main tank.
I would have rather seen FCT or Muma because they play more tanks overall better.
trim shadow
it suprises me fctfction got shafted for super..considering super can only play rein to a high degree...it kinda seems telegraphed what comp there gonna run based on supers hero pool
pearl stratus
Probably would have leaned toward FCT, to be honest.
balmy wolf
Supers worst hero is by far winston, the other 2 are high, rein being his best.
trim shadow
unless like They put sinatraa on zarya duty and make him learn sigma
pearl stratus
His ball is also bad.
trim shadow
super plays ball lol?
pearl stratus
Strong is Rein, good is Orisa, Weak is Ball/Winston.
FCT is pretty equally good across the board.
balmy wolf
DPS lineup is probs the most complete lineup I've seen from the US
trim shadow
dps lineup is probably the best among the teams
but in a 2-2-2 games arent won just by hard carrys but also by plays
balmy wolf
I meant complete in the sense they all 3 of them in any duo can play anything effectively.
pearl stratus
None of those people don't play with the people around them though.
Which is what matters most.
It looks like a cohesive focused team. It's just letting other people coach than Aero lol
Eh they're missing a Mei.
But hopefully Mei is gone by OWWC.
trim shadow
im still rining the horn for dallas to go ahead and fire aero
1-13 in stage 3 and 4
its either the big ass coaching staff
or the big ass coaching staff
pearl stratus
I don't think firing him is necessary, I think just getting a better overall structure. You can get good developmental secondary coaches. They just have SO MANY people.
It looks like a knee jerk reaction to them having only two coaches for a while.
Peak explained, on his twitch, that he was basically doing "stay awake for two days" sleep for 10 hours, repeat.
For a while.
When they had back to back games in a week.
trim shadow
so essentially dallas needs to swap coaches
well shit start with daemon
look at how paris fell apart in stage 1
and never got back up after he left
balmy wolf
They have 4 assistant coaches.
pearl stratus
I think they legitimately need to replace some, I'm just not 100% saying Aero is the main one.
trim shadow
jayne coaches supports
someone coaches tanks
someone coaches dps
then theres daemon as assistant and aero
and closer has been solid but unkoe hasnt
balmy wolf
daemon is the tank coach
trim shadow
when daemon got hired i heard he was assistant
i guess he could still coach tanks
but he hasnt been doing a fantastic job
trill definetly hasnt improved since being signed
balmy wolf
yea the assistant coach whos main job is coaching the tanks
trim shadow
hes solid but hes not being pushed
balmy wolf
They have the staff, but the structure is probs just bad.
trim shadow
envy is technically one of the elite orgs among the orgs
in terms of esports history
then you have cloud9
its just whatever envy is trying is not working
balmy wolf
envy hasn't been an elite esport org in yrs
The only org rn that has a good history in most esport games is Liquid.
trim shadow
well cloud 9 won Ow grandfinals last year
but over the year cloud 9 has taken a back seat
last i checked they werent doing so hot in leauge of legends either
and there csgo team is non existent
balmy wolf
Liquid has the best cs go team at the moment, and their LOL team just won another major tournament.
for the 4th time in a row
trim shadow
honestly im suprised liquid didnt try to get a owl spot
they should have the funds todo so
theyre based in the netherlands so thats a s4 team they could do
yea picture this
amsterdam Mustangs
upper niche
The franchise terms aren't too appealing though.
I spoke with two people in Aus who have the money to make it happen and both said the same thing about the franchise terms - "nope, nope nope", basically.
trim shadow
what are the franchise terms?
upper niche
Well... basically that you don't own it, for one. You lease it. A/B can take and reassign it at any point if htye choose.
balmy wolf
Blizz is layman terms has full control over everything.
upper niche
One of the execs on the board of North Melbourne Football Club may have bought in if not for some of the terms.
balmy wolf
The inventors only get some power when they lease it, but blizz can practically do anything with the teams.
upper niche
Yeah.
upper niche
Blizzard can say "we need a team in Memphis... Atlanta, get moving".
trim shadow
so teams have a spot but blizzard regulates there spot
upper niche
shit like that.
balmy wolf
Its the idea that they can do it even if it is unlikely.
upper niche
And those kind of contract terms will immediately drive away people with good business acumen.
trim shadow
so ya saying comcast and billibilli have no good buisness acumen lol
balmy wolf
Most of the team buyers are people who are either passionate about esport, or have a fuck load of money that it doesn't matter.
upper niche
@trim shadow No. For them, the money they paid for the franchise is like an advertising budget.
Yeah. For the super rich, them owning a basketball team is like you buying an RC car.
upper niche
Well, also remember that 2 of the 2019 teams were late additions that said "we want in. what, you're full? Okay how about $60m, will you let us in then?"
trim shadow
ima assume thats billibilli and probably paris
i got the orgs pulled on a second tab
the vancouver titans owner is the same guy who owns the cannucks
upper niche
Maybe and no, btw 😉
trim shadow
or hes invested in the cannucks
upper niche
Yeah. Boston is Kraft group and NYXL is the... mets owner is it?'
trim shadow
think billibilli is one of the few orgs that is up there in the billions
upper niche
off the top of my head.
trim shadow
oh yea huya as well
upper niche
Put it this way: Compared to Cloud 9? Sure, they're huge. Compared to Comcast? They're Cloud9 heh.
trim shadow
well the actuall gaming orgs are probably worth about as much as they paid
around 20 mill to 100
upper niche
much, much less.
trim shadow
then you have the corporations like netease billibilli and huya
the corps are the ones without the esports experience
hence why cloud 9 won the first season
upper niche
So... Season 1 franchises were in the 8-20m region, but most around 15. Season 2 franchises ranged 15 to 60m.
The six targeted ones were in the 15 to 30 range. The two that became 'overage' were higher figures.
trim shadow
most of the s2 orgs are corporations outside Paris's org
and washington's
apperantly washington's owners own a world wide tennis team
a partnership between Cox Enterprises and Province, Inc, purchased one of Activision Blizzard's expansion slots in the Overwatch League at an estimated $30 million to $60 million.
thats what the wiki says for atlanta
trim shadow
unless a corparaiton or team based in another country wants to buy in austrailia
highly doubt it
upper niche
So one of the people I spoke to is the owner of a chain of fitness clubs. Another is on the board of an AFL club. The other I know was sniffing around was an NRL team.
trim shadow
holy shit ellivote and lulsish's names look good on there jerseys
upper niche
ie, none of them are like... esports orgs.
Adelaide Football Club recently bought Legacy eSports.
trim shadow
legacy sounds familiar
upper niche
Optus (SingTel) are part owners.
Essendon Football Club bought a LoL or Dota team? I can't remember which (Answer: Abyss),
and I know that both Collingwood and Geelong football clubs are both looking in to purchases.
trim shadow
for owl spots? or to buy into esports
upper niche
for esports.
I'm just looking at Geelongs annual statement and while it's difficult to figure out an overall revenue figure, they have annual employee costs of around $33m, lease agreements of about $12m and plant and equipment costs of around $12m also with about $11m in assets. They're the kind of figures you'd be looking at for any AU investor.
So USD60m is so far out of the realm of reasonable it just won't happen.
trim shadow
trim shadow
a spot in GF
its double elimination
so even if you get eliminated from the winners
you still get a chance
balmy wolf
I don't understand then won't it be like 2 teams in the grand finals and then another one in the loser bracket?
upper niche
It's a bit on the nose to call it a double elim bracket though
upper niche
for example, you can win through the winners bracket, come up against the winner of the losers bracket, and then lose the grand final having lost only that single match unders this system.
native crescent
and they play eachother for the title
balmy wolf
so the winners in the winner's bracket save a spot while all the other 7 teams fight it out?
native crescent
no
so say the top 4 seeds win
the other 4 play eachother
then those 2 play the loosers from the second round of winners
and so on
upper niche
The principle of the way a bracket system like this works is that the highest seed always plays the lowest bracketed seed, and so on. So if 16th defeats 1, they assume seed 1 for the purpose of the remaining schedule.
balmy wolf
so top 4 teams go to grand finals and the other 4 just brawl it out
Then GF becomes a battle between winner of winner's bracket and winner of loser's bracket?
upper niche
So when 8 loses to 1, they remain seed 8, and then you look at who is in the lower bracket - it might be 12(?)v8 from the previous lower-bracket round.
gotta check my math on whether it would be 12 heh.
native crescent
look at the bracker
upper niche
Not in the playins
native crescent
bracket
upper niche
only in the playoffs.
native crescent
the playins determines whos in the playoffs
upper niche
the playins are an elimination final system, not a bracket final system.
native crescent
and the loosers bracket is only is the playoffs
if u loose in the playins your out
upper niche
yeah.
balmy wolf
but if you lose in the play offs then you get another chance in the loser bracket
am i getting that right?
upper niche
but ONLY up to the last round. The final itself is a single match.
upper niche
You might remember the Razer CPL back in I think 1999, if I'm remembering these details correctly, Zero4 beat Fatal1ty in the first final, but because Z4 came from the lower bracket had to beat him twice - but lost.
@gaunt acorn Prophet
gaunt acorn
@upper niche not wholly disappointing but i knew i shouldn't have placed london so high
i tried to give them the benefit of the doubt after winning grand finals
yet here we are
inconsistent as ever
trim shadow
london tier S
upper niche
When LDN became the first team to lose to SHD, you knew something was up 😄
trim shadow
oh how the mighty fall
gaunt acorn
@upper niche that was boston, actually
upper niche
I mean the final last year was PHI vs LDN - 5 v 6!
gaunt acorn
tier d is pretty accurate
trim shadow
or at 20
gaunt acorn
actually these rankings become a lot more accurate if they were predicting.. stage 3
upper niche
I mean Justice have only come good in stage 4. Their stages 1-3 record was so bad even their incredible stage 4 couldn't pull them off the bottom.
upper niche
ATL too.
gaunt acorn
if it weren't for 2-2-2 changing everything up
my rankings would've been fairly accurate
upper niche
ATL beat NYXL twice, but other than that they had a pretty average season to that point.
upper niche
PHI have been strange.
gaunt acorn
but i'm not brutally embarrassed by any of these, at least
upper niche
they have the names in the team, but they're just not... I dunno. It's just not happening for htem.
gaunt acorn
poor coaching
trim shadow
upper niche
That's a pretty poor way of juding who was closest.
trim shadow
look at all those justice at the bottom
upper niche
A more accurate way would be to give a +/- score for every team to where they actually finished, and total those values.
Hunters though too. Finished 12th
trim shadow
ofc fucking miro would say dynasty are number 1
supple prism
wow so many got Glads very close
trim shadow
sideshow must be punching air looking back at his pre season
trim shadow
i would like to remove mykl's pre season
gaunt acorn
and they placed 12th this season
trim shadow
hes a fortnite sell out
i think in my pre season i had hunters at 15th
and had houston and boston in the bottom 5
as a matter of fact
i had boston at 20th
supple prism
i got 4 correct
trim shadow
upper niche
isnt goldenboy commentating fortnite now?
trim shadow
the shock charge match WAS NOT easy to decide
upper niche
Which is why I thought it was odd of him to be at KitKat
balmy wolf
he comes back I guess for the major events of OW
tho I think that's more for the exposure than it is for the game
supple prism
charge beat shock?
supple prism
charge beat titans?
trim shadow
shock are stacked in every position
but guangzhou is just that little bit more clutchy
balmy wolf
I'd like to see the new meta
trim shadow
i ran a scenario where everyone on guangzhou just pops off
and another scenario where san fran clean stomps
and kept thinking
and thinking
and thinking
and decided that i think nero and happy are more clutch
and they have had
at least a week on the sigma patch
so they should be ahead of the game
upper niche
Here's my prediction ;)
trim shadow
chengdu over guangzhou?
i wanna hear thiss
as much as i love jinmu bacon and yxl are all muscle no brain
supple prism
man, Solomon is too good
upper niche
I mean I don't have a strong opinion about CDH vs GZC, but it's also mostly irrelevant because I think both LDN and SEO will win their playin matches. I kinda just think CDH will choke.
trim shadow
thats why i posted the bracket so you can fill it out 
@balmy wolf and thats how the bracket will work even if a team loses they still can get back to gf through losers
balmy wolf
gotcha
supple prism
so reign can lose to shock but get a second chance in the grand finals
supple prism
imagine Grand Finals where London faces Fusion again
balmy wolf
naw
trim shadow
well
they need hunters to win
and hunters gets london
and fusion gets dynasty
london has a 10% chance to pull grand finals out of there ass
supple prism
oh yea
trim shadow
looking back at my bracket i think the only thing i wouldve changed is shock charge
now that i think about it
i think shock make GF
but to late decided that this is my bracket
supple prism
ok, got my bracket set. Spitfire v Fusion in Grand Finals. Spitfire wins again
trim shadow
^
supple prism
everyone gets angry. Blizzard just releases Winston Spitfire skin
balmy wolf
so did blizzard decide that or did the team decide that?
supple prism
idk
balmy wolf
cause i could see gesture begging for the skin
supple prism
did Jjonak pick his?
trim shadow
think london decided the hero
balmy wolf
he told them he wanted zen and something octopus themed
trim shadow
and blizzard did the design
supple prism
hmm
balmy wolf
whether it was blizzard deciding on it
or if london just decided to gave it to gesture
we'll never know
hidden vault
They might do a video like explaining
trim shadow
they have a article explaining it
hidden vault
Link?
upper niche
when?
upper niche
Are trades permitted before the finals?
balmy wolf
Just anytime a player leaves boston I think it's a reason to celebrate
balmy wolf
I doubt any team except maybe florida would pick up krystal with his poor behavior
trim shadow
tizi is the last announcement for the year
theese are moves for next year
but cant be finalized until october
balmy wolf
Please Paris pick up Fusions so he can leave that dumpster team
trim shadow
that would welcomed by me
jagged crater
are playins on the new patch?
upper niche
whaaaaaaaa is Uber leaving??!
hidden vault
Is he in wc?
karmic grotto
Fusions had great supports
echo quest
@balmy wolf honestly if your Florida try to get Krystal. He was the best dps in China
Ahead of diem and Erster
Problem is dude is a dumbass who has done this type of shit multiple times
dusk sphinx
So then he's worse?
echo quest
?
little silo
will they announce the mvp on the 29th?
tawny sigil
4 week long playoff
god damn
they could have condensed this a bit... entire day for 1 game repeatedly
sullen berry
tawny sigil
3 week instead of 4 would have worked
willow moon
Hey. More tokens for me 
tawny sigil
week 3 is like 1 match a day all week
trim shadow
You guys say the smoothest brain shit ever
tawny sigil
dude last year play off was 1 week+the final
now its 3 weeks+the final
play ins are just 4 matches so it doesnt add a whole lot
trim shadow
tawny sigil
doesnt matter if you have 10 to 200
give 1 week for play ins and after that its the same
trim shadow
IT IS 1 WEEK FOR PLAY INS
the lower seeds play friday
Then@play later on saturday
Then your into winners brackets
The n e x t week
tawny sigil
week 2 and 3 could totally be combined
week 3 has nothing in it
also the playins setup seems weird
so you have london and dynasty as the top seed
trim shadow
thats because the first round of winners havent been played yet
So no one knows what week 3 will look like
Only it will be winners semis and maybe losers@round 2
tawny sigil
so why does chengdu have a chance to finish as the 7th seed but shanghai and philly dont despite being higher seed... makes no sense to me
feels like there should have been a 5th match there
tawny sigil
yes i know that but
pearl stratus
In case you're an idiot who never dealt with sports:
There you go.
It does it for you, so you can not need to whine
Big robot think good.
tawny sigil
oh its the lower and highest
limber pine
oh yeah
that makes a little more sense
spark/glad worst match of playoffs
shock reign is gonna be lit
tawny sigil
i predict guangzhou or atlanta in the final, other one probably shock
limber pine
is sigma in for the play-in tournament?
tawny sigil
yes
tawny sigil
they're moving to live patch im pretty sure
zarya buff is not live yet is it?
zarya got a nerf in 1.40
max dps 190 to 170
but thats not live yet so that's not gonna be in the play off i dont think
there is no way sigma is not gonna get played, he's too stronk
tawny sigil
dont think titan will make it that far
trim shadow
Ive seen 6 of theese and everyone believes titans will make it deep
Some have titans winning it all
tawny sigil
weird stuff happens in playoff
what if its the spitfire again, riots in the streets
stage 4 was so weird, it kinda existed in this temporal time chambre with a patch that somewhat never existed
in an alternate reality they roled in the test server patch and stage 4 had moira fade out of stun but live never got that
dusk sphinx
I think Fusion will beat Spitfire and Shock beats Charge
Also I don't think the Titans can beat Spark or LAGlad atm
willow moon
Apparently USA announced their 7 player roaster?
trim shadow
yes
willow moon
Nice
alpine plume
hey yall! Mayber this question was already asked, but does anyone know when OW open division 2019 season 3 will start? if at all? Thanks 
umbral bone
queen drift
Moth / Rawkus - Super / Space - Sinatraa / Corey / KSF
Other than Rawkus and maybe KSF the roster looks stacked
pearl stratus
KSF is arguably the most important person in the DPS roster as he has the most flex.
I, personally, would have taken Danteh over Sinatraa. Sinatraa probably provides better comms however.
willow moon
^
pearl stratus
My honest impression is that supports is the best they could manage with the issues surrounding flex supports in NA.
DPS is not a bad selection, but I'd have preferred more flex options.
And I think Tanks are a miss with the way the meta is shaping up, though we won't know what its like in three months.
Space is fine, mostly just Super.
echo quest
3rd place maybe this time
pearl stratus
Super is only really good on Rein, his Orisa is okay, his Winston and Ball are his weakest.
FCT plays all the tanks at a decent level.
And probably who I would have chosen.
But Super does take a leadership/comms role.
So I'm sure that came into play.
pearl stratus
Sigma is more an off tanks role, unless you're going to be putting space on Orisa.
If not its just a distinct hope that double shield clusterfuck is gone by November.
willow moon
True that
karmic grotto
Welp
jagged crater
super back to c tier main tank?
ksf has been nuttin in season 2
didnt get much to shine in s1 but in s2 he's NUTTIn
dusk sphinx
Who's the best tank atm?
limber pine
main or off
dusk sphinx
Both
limber pine
well Choi I think is a top 3 tank in any major category
the fact that he's not an MVP candidate is sad
main is a big harder
either Gesture or Mano are good choices
pearl stratus
Except for current meta. That's why the questions aren't black and white.
limber pine
They're "okay" in the current meta
but main tanks aren't really playmakers in this meta
so it's hard to tell
balmy wolf
he is really nothing like bumper
besides them both being tank mains; mano does a lot with the little amount of resources he's typically given
balmy wolf
bumper you gotta put literally everything into to be effective
mental estuary
always felt like mano was more efficient than bumper even tho results don't show it in owl
tropic herald
I guarantee if Mano and Bumper swapped teams Titans would be very strong while NYXL would plunge even further
trim shadow
Espect vancouver signed tizi
tropic herald
Well yeah
storm cloak
Why is pine not playing?
tropic herald
Inconsistent
storm cloak
Shame
balmy wolf
That's not necessarily fair to say
While yes season 1 was somewhat inconsistent; he has had literally no time besides all stars on stage so how much better or worse he has become is not apparent;
also Pine as far as we know only plays two characters remarkably which both aren't necessarily meta or needed due to the need to be flexible to go on mei or reaper
or hanzo
Also NYXL would plunge with bumper as their tank; his style just does not work; if anything he's like janus or fissure where he demands the teams resources into him; the only difference is, his team actually plays around him and know how to utilize his aggression unlike the other two examples I stated prior
but that was goats meta; this is mei bunker meta
trim shadow
Everyone basing there knowledge off of s1 pine
tropic herald
Honestly no idea why Rawkus was chosen other than synergy
trim shadow
None of us are insiders so
tropic herald
Stratus wasn’t even in the Top 12
balmy wolf
yea ik but I don't think it's fair to say he's bad since he hasn't been allowed to see action
queen drift
Dogman wasn't chosen because he didn't perform well in trials
As for Sleepy/Rawkus, we don't know
Likely down to trial performance and synergy with teammates. Although you'd think Sleepy would fit better, being ex-shock with 3 shock members
cedar drum
@hidden vault Imo it's Dogman, both his Ana and Zen are really good but he underperformed in trials and a lot of people don't like him.
void hedge
Going to an overwatch league match costs so much wtf
vital matrix
anyone tryna buy tickets for paris homestand... ?
@void hedge You perhaps?
Any idea why theres only an option for an all access pass... ?
dreamy cave
rawkus is a good mercy, and sleepy is a good ana, but they dont truly shine much at all outside of those heros.
long skiff
NYXL should have brought pine out for the game against the uprising
karmic grotto
Nyxl are..... >->
echo quest
Pine isn’t playing because He plays two heroes
Those aren’t meta
And he wasn’t the most consistent with them
fiery basalt
Hey guys since I'm on vacation I didn't catch some games but I heard that Flower was in for a while. Was he any good?
void hedge
One all acces pass is about 400€/person wtf
@vital matrix
for paris
(where i live)
void hedge
and the other tickets were sold in a few minutes
vital matrix
yeah exactly, it sucks 😦
pearl stratus
@fiery basalt Flower was subbed in when NYXL really really wanted to throw a map.
fiery basalt
Oh. But was he any good?
pearl stratus
I feel like by context clues you could easily tell I'm saying you would cover him in toilet paper.
Because he was shit.
limber pine
define "good"
limber pine
👌
pearl stratus
When you can instantly make the internet forget about AKM blade.
limber pine
all I remember the caster saying was "and flower still doesn't have EMP"
over and over again
pearl stratus
And then when he had it.
He held it for over 2 minutes.
And then when he used it, they lost the fight anyway.
limber pine
yup
pearl stratus
It was one of the most overall pathetic displays I'd seen in both seasons.
pearl stratus
Expected imo.
People care about Flower for something that happened over two years ago.
Which is forever in e-sports time.
He's never looked that good since that.
echo quest
People really be forgetting that he was benched for Mangachu
fiery basalt
Benched for Mangachu? Isn't Flower a hitscan and Mangachu a projectile specialist?
pearl stratus
XL2, they just stopped playing Flower.
pearl stratus
They might just keep him to keep him, like they do with Pine.
Jersey sellers aren't bad for an org.
echo quest
Is he even that popular? He didn’t even make the all star game
pearl stratus
He's decently popular with the older Apex crowd, not new fans.
karmic grotto
Pine should just be demoted to Contenders
echo quest
Why
limber pine
because he's a Widow one trick
karmic grotto
Yup
At least he can click heads in Contenders since he can't do that in OWL being benched
limber pine
If he's not playing in Stage 4 where Widow is the most viable she's been in Season 2, then he's not going to play ever
karmic grotto
He should just retire
What the hell does he even do in his free time in their team house?
trim shadow
im sstill pissed at libero
for blocking off a dva on havana
and deciding to not use his blizzard
and they lost the team fight
oak heath
lmao ikr i was wondering how big of an impact that was to the fight lol
echo quest
That’s nothing, Fury still has the most Infuriating play of the season
vale pond
Pine probably stays for the salary and stuff
balmy wolf
Even if pine was let off from NY. No one would pick him up.
Would have to prove himself in contenders.
jagged crater
PINE TIME
limber pine
I think they'll be a lot of retirements this offseason
Taimou, SDB, Mickie
Logix
the gen 1 players that are still playing
TiZi is en-route
queen drift
I don’t think logix will
He just got picked up from contendies
He has reason to stay
As for pine.. he’s a widow one trick, and even NYXL have better widows
Nenne and arguably flower although he hasn’t performed recently
Even sbb can contend with pine on widow
I think Nevix might get traded or retire
/drop to t2
He’s too good to not get playtime
pearl stratus
It's a hard sell though. Is being benched on Shock better than starting on a shit hole.
If I was in his position I'd be picky about the trade team.
pearl stratus
Like if you mentioned a trade to Dallas I'd tell you to gargle diarrhea and spit it on your mother.
queen drift
Paris?
pearl stratus
Because being on some of these shit orgs is a bigger career death sentence than the bench
pearl stratus
Spree, mostly.
pearl stratus
No, Danteh was playing some D'va when they needed it running 3 dps
Because having the three dps players made more sense most of the time.
queen drift
I feel like both coolmatt and spree are benched somehow lol
pearl stratus
No, Spree was playing primarily.
queen drift
Yeah I know
I know they’ve both got platings
Playtime
I’m saying they both seem like bench players
pearl stratus
There's a bunch of teams where nevix would be an upgrade, but not a lot where Nevix would look upgraded.
echo quest
@pearl stratus why do you think Note looks bad on Fuel?
pearl stratus
Frd is fine, and Nevix honestly looks like too smart a player to want to deal with them.
I think Note looks bad on Fuel because Fuel has 5 coaches and none of them know how to actually develop talent.
There's too many cooks in that kitchen.
queen drift
It’s not note himself
pearl stratus
Dallas, as a current roster, has the tools to make a VERY succcessful team in terms of talent.
echo quest
I have you know Aero has coached western Carpe and Jayne said Haksal isn’t a good brig
S tier coaches
pearl stratus
It's more the off-coaches. Aero has never been a development coach, he's a strategic coach.
queen drift
Who’s western carpe
pearl stratus
But the problem is all the other coaches he brought in are the same
There's a distinct lack of western coaches who can actually develop players.
Because its not your 'standard' coach skillset.
There's not a lot of Korean development coaches either, to be fair.
Just more than the west.
West has Dpei, and I'd probably arguing Packing now with his effect on LAV.
Korea has Crusty, BluHAS, Mask as their three major development coaches.
China has RUI.
queen drift
Why
pearl stratus
No one gives a fuck about a 14 year old kid who pops off, they'll be forgotten.
If you're 18, and you pop off in the WC
You can get picked up for an OWL team
Immediately.
They're using it as a talent display for getting people into OWL.
Everyone who plays you know is eligible for a contract.
queen drift
Ehh. I’d understand that if they limited it to 16 or 17
pearl stratus
Waiting a year or two is pointless.
pearl stratus
A year is a long time in OW, so is two years. Look at Flower.
queen drift
Yeah 16 is pushing it, 17 is fine
The gap between seasons and stages takes off the wait
balmy wolf
A lot of stuff can happen in a yr
pearl stratus
From an owner perspective I wouldn't give two shits about a 17 year old if I need stuff now
Maybe I sign him to an academy, but that means I have to spend money
Fuck that kid.
Find me the person I can spend money on now and not waste it.
queen drift
Best team in the league took the opposite approach
queen drift
So did Flower
pearl stratus
flower didn't have shit.
And hasn't done shit.
Because he is?
Shit.
It was a waste of money investing on him from Apex results two years ago.
queen drift
Flower has as much experience as Sinatraa, more than Super
balmy wolf
Flower got benched in contenders
pearl stratus
The other situation would be Chengdu where you could argue they also did it wrong trying to wait for Leave.
Where he's lived in their house for the last year.
Scrimming and playing ranked.
hidden vault
Did they do it wrong for leave?
echo quest
Wdym ?
balmy wolf
Leave is part of MY line of players
pearl stratus
Arguably so. They did keep him out of competitive play for a year.
We'll see if it works out or not.
The fact that he's more talented than probably 70% of the league should save him.
But its a gamble.
queen drift
I think right now you can’t have a solid argument against recruiting young talent when Super, Sinatraa, Viol2t and Jjonak have been so successful
pearl stratus
I can have an argument about people sitting on the bench for that long.
Because lets be fair:
Super wasn't a useful addition until Goats.
Shock just had arguably one of the worst main tanks in the league picked up for most of S1.
Sinatraa took time to adapt as well, and was generally mocked for a while due to it.
Viol2t was a trade pick up, and was already 18
Well mid season signing, not trade.
queen drift
And for the last few stages he was the best player in the league :p
Was he 18? Rip me
pearl stratus
Yeah. And already what?
Already 18.
😛
I mean I don't mind you making my argument for me.
queen drift
I might be thinking of.. /izayaki?
pearl stratus
Right now the only young prospect pick up that helps your argument is Alarm
And I'd give you that one.
queen drift
Yes, but he was one of the best players pre-18. Proving recruiting young talent and helping it, while bumpy, can be better than quick immediately available players
pearl stratus
Except if you're on the OWWC team there's the argument you're already developed to a really good point.
It's not like you're picking up quick discount players like Florida did.
Getting K-mart Koreans mid-season.
queen drift
Yes, developed to a really good point but you can always improve
pearl stratus
I can't think of a single player from say like... OWWC 17 team China
That couldn't have made OWL right away if they were of age.
(And almost all of them are in OWL now, being of age)
queen drift
That’s.. exactly what I’m saying..
pearl stratus
I'm more saying minus Leave name one really strong under 18 player from the OWWC that went.. anywhere.
In the year off since then almost the entire team UK retired.
Etc.
A year is a long time in e-sports.
Especially in contenders.
But I also think OWL players should be kept out of OWWC to make it more of an up and comers event.
Like how the US for a while didn't play NBA players in the Olympics because it was just kind of mean.
pearl stratus
I understand RUI's reasoning though
Visa, especially for China, have fucked them pretty hard in the past.
So picking people who already have them makes the whole planning so much easier when he had short roster deadlines.
bronze scroll
Isn't today the day that the tickets for 2020 become available?
limber pine
yes
pearl stratus
I actually think Coldest had a better shot
Yes, though its a risk depending on your area.
Like I didn't even look at tickets for Boston
echo quest
They looking for that cheap deal
bronze scroll
the fusion page wont even load
pearl stratus
They're probably looking for the smartest one, knowing Kraft.
I still think they'll pick Boston University
Their arena hosted CSGO Majors last year, fits about 5-7k depending on set up.
And you'll sell a ton of the tickets just on campus alone.
limber pine
That would make the most sense
pearl stratus
Downside is getting there can be...
A clusterfuck would be wording it nicely.
There's two other schools with arenas as well.
bronze scroll
are any of you guys able to see the fusion tickets? or is the page not loading for anybody?
bronze scroll
thank you
limber pine
I think most tickets are starting at around 75
bronze scroll
fusion has 2 different locations
limber pine
NY and Washington has two venues too
pearl stratus
Fusion goes up to $250.
If you want good seats.
Which seems about average across the league.
bronze scroll
i mean, its also understandeble that fusion has 2 spots, since the Fusion arena is not even under construction if i am correct
pearl stratus
Actually, Philly defaults to 2 tickets per @bronze scroll so double check your top left.
If you're going solo
bronze scroll
so, fusions last homestand only goes up to 145 dollar max
@pearl stratus i can click it down to 1
pearl stratus
Yeah
Just letting you know it defaults to 2
I'm sure a few people will order 2 by accident.
Not realizing it
bronze scroll
smart
the thing is, i havent checked the others, but for the fusion unless you live near the venue, you will have to book a hotel or something 2, cause you can only buy a multiple day ticket
or you have to pay for 2 days and only go for 1
i wonder what they are going to do with the Blizzard arena after this season.
pearl stratus
@limber pine We may get a repeat of last year.
Apparently London are smashing kids in Sigma scrims
limber pine
are the scrims still mei/reaper with sigma instead of dva
cuz i'd find that hard to believe if that's the case
If I had a penny for every time a team cashed in scrim bucks...
pearl stratus
I mean London cashed them in on the new meta last year in Finals 😛
pearl stratus
I don' tthink there was a big enough gap for scrims because of the timeline of last year.
At least not a lot of scrims.
Because there were S4 playoffs, then the shortened schedule for the Grand Finals.
limber pine
I mean, it'd be bad to count out London
for obvious reasons
it wouldn't surprise me to see them back in the finals
pearl stratus
PlatChat didn't mention the other heroes much btw
Fortnite Overwatch is being thrown around a bit
Since now we're wall building
pearl stratus
I mean you can't argue that much on ladder
Since its just Orisa Sym and Sigma
Walls errywhere
But yeah I believe Bren's direct words were "London are poo'ing on everyone"
And Johnny confirmed his sources said the same thing at the moment.
pearl stratus
And while I always grain of salt all of this, they were the first non players to really mention that teams who had the best Mei would be dominant in S4. So they get decent leaks.
Junkrat can't even really shield break through that.
trim shadow
Pharmacy will probably@be non existent
Considering sigma can put his shield anywhere
And like knock pharah out of the sky with a good accreation shot
I rlly wanna see how players use accreation
balmy wolf
So i guess teams with good sigma's and mei's are gonna do well in the playoffs then.
dusk sphinx
Meh I still think Dva and Hog will be played more than Sigma
pearl stratus
lol
When you don't understand the meta, but you stick to it.
I appreciate your conviction at least.
balmy wolf
Fortnite meta coming soon bois
pearl stratus
Only saving grace is I don't think they'll have the sym/zarya tick rate patch live.
So we may avoid full fortnite.
And only get the Orisa/Sigma version.
Orisa/Sigma/Sym would just be EpilepticWatch.
balmy wolf
Yea the visual clutter is the worst
hidden vault
So you think sym wouldn't be used?
pearl stratus
If her tickrate patch doesn't go through, I doubt she'll be used much. She may be used a little, but the tickrate fix is what has her melting shields and squishies.
dusk sphinx
Well Sigma doesn't do very well vs Sym either and I think Sym is quite likely to be played more
balmy wolf
It probs depends on the team preferring mei/reaper to using sym.
pearl stratus
Sym + Doom.
Is most of it right now.
Because Doom doesn't give two shits about shields.
dusk sphinx
Doom is a tossup
balmy wolf
Doom fucks sigma over pretty hard.
dusk sphinx
Rock denies his combo
balmy wolf
Doom just has to wait.
Doom will just displace sigma and let the team melt him and move on.
pearl stratus
melt him is fifty fifty.
dusk sphinx
Yeah and in that case Widow hard counters Tracer if she just waits for all her abilities to be on cooldown
pearl stratus
Because most of the meta right now is just... buying your Sym time to et the lead.
dusk sphinx
Sym and Mei hard counter Sigma though
pearl stratus
Once your Sym has the lead in the shield fight you'll eventually win.
But if they don't have the tick rate fix, its tough.
dusk sphinx
Sym can just charge het beam for free on Sigmas shields
pearl stratus
It still locks in Sigma.
dusk sphinx
Even more than on Orisas shields
pearl stratus
Because the Sigma is what lets you bunker hop to the enemy shields.
Hog is close to useless, since his main point gets removed by Sigma 66% of the time
Since you can eat hook.
Which is just lol
dusk sphinx
That's Assuming Sigma will be played
pearl stratus
If you don't think Sigma will be played at this point your brain is so smooth you could play hockey on it.
Prime ice real estate.
dusk sphinx
All heroes are played that aside
pearl stratus
Here I'll tell you what.
If Sigma isn't meta I'll leave this channel forever.
If he is, you leave forever.
Gotta make it fun.
dusk sphinx
But Mr. Rude, Sigma won't be the same sort of meta like Orisa is
That being a must-pick hero
balmy wolf
Sigma pairs with orisa, hence double shield
pearl stratus
With Orisa around? The two best shield break tanks are the heroes with shields.
dusk sphinx
And that's cause Sigma falls too hard to Mei, Reaper and Sym
balmy wolf
So far every insider source is saying sigma is meta with orisa.
dusk sphinx
Sigma sucks at shield break lmao
upper hawk
well this is going to be frustrating to watch
pearl stratus
Most people expected it.
upper hawk
even more for the players to play
pearl stratus
I think most people with good game knowledge explained it was going to be bunker-based comps.
Only thing I didn't expect so far was reaper.
I expected Hanzo to stay longer because of his shield break potential.
dusk sphinx
Maybe dive will be able to counter it?
upper hawk
too squishy
pearl stratus
It's not even too squishy.
You literally can't dive so much sustain.
Since the healers right now are Baptiste Moira.
So good luck diving that.
balmy wolf
Sustain is the killer of dives.
dusk sphinx
Moira Lucio is played most
pearl stratus
My current prediction for meta based on what everyones shown/said:
balmy wolf
Dive dps can't out dps most of the healing.
upper hawk
baptiste moira
pearl stratus
Orisa, Sigma, Sym, Mei/Doom, Baptiste, Moira.
dusk sphinx
Good Tracers might have a field day
upper hawk
meh im all for seeing something new
dusk sphinx
I think Orisa Dva will Still be meta
upper hawk
just hope its mildly exciting to watch
dusk sphinx
Primary meta that is
balmy wolf
Sigma's ult is also pretty busted rn
upper hawk
the queen has been dethroned
pearl stratus
I mean she's still good.
upper hawk
rip
balmy wolf
Even if he dies while ulting you'll still get fucked
pearl stratus
But in terms of blocking things that hurt the comp, Sigma blocks more.
The fact he can literally eat hook is insane.
It removes an entire threat in the Pulled Pork.
Also
D'va can't eat Sigmas rock.
Which is just..
hilariously unfair.
balmy wolf
Weird
balmy wolf
Probs because his eat is legit a blackhole
pearl stratus
He can also eat Blizzard, which Jeff originally said wasn't something they wanted to happen.