esports-discussion

[balmy wolf]

don't even play zen and Winston epic

[trim shadow]

I swear

If valiant

Pull

[pearl cedar]

ooof poor valiant

[trim shadow]

A fucking

Shoen jump move

[pearl cedar]

their playoff hopes rest on beating the shock

[trim shadow]

And summon power of out their ass

[balmy wolf]

if val gets eliminated in their homestand

[pearl cedar]

how is that even possible LOL

[trim shadow]

Im fighting the scriptwriters

[cursive talon]

hmm at best they will draw the map.... edit wait they didnt cap 2?

[trim shadow]

I gave em 5% to beat sfs

[pearl cedar]

yea i cant see valiant even winning a map

[trim shadow]

Agilities had to ascend ultra instinct

And everyone else had todo their jon

[pearl cedar]

Maybe if they try agilities on genji or something

[balmy wolf]

#sigma

genji dont work against mei

and mei is must pick rn

yay 17 mins in dps q

[cursive talon]

as a main tank i love role queue

[balmy wolf]

When I went to LA my hotel was literally next to the centre

but I'm going to Paris when they do their homestand in April 2020

[raw ermine]

haha

just realised tha boston is second last

Toronto moves up 1!

[pearl cedar]

@balmy wolf its sad that you're eright

but you're right

i think that would be valiant's best chance though

comfort picks where they can pop off

[balmy wolf]

comfort picks that get counter are one the dumbest things you can do

genji cant do much against mei and hog, you're basically throwing if you do it

doesn't matter if you're the best sniper in the world if their playing double shield against you

[pearl cedar]

I mean, Titans ran doomfist into sombra

and made it work on lijiang

[balmy wolf]

doomfist is actually viable because he can 1 shot and has temp shields

[pearl cedar]

into sombra hacks though?

[balmy wolf]

would you rather play doom against sombra or genji? Pick your posion.

Look at ameng rn, his ball gets eaten alive whenever he plays it.

ah mei meta

just killing ball meta

Hell hunters try to play genji against shock and lost to them hard

As in they didn't get 1st tick on hollywood

[upper niche]

Come on, reverse sweep for LAV.

[balmy wolf]

this is embarassing

[night tusk]

aww 😦

[night tusk]

hunters atleast have to show us a video that they are watching this

if philly won from london last years finals, did the finals was in 3 days ?

or if it's 1 - 1, teams just play another match just later on ?

[upper niche]

I cant remember if it was best of 5 (of 5) or best of 3 (of 7).

Looks like it was best-of-3 of 5.

[night tusk]

ye but I wonder if a finals can cost 3 days or not

[upper niche]

Actually I think it was first-to-3 (which is different ot best of 5)

no I think they changed it. Which raises questions about the double elim format.

Uusually in a double elimination tourament, if you win 1v2 from the lower bracket you then ahve to win again. But they dont appear to be doing that.

It appears as though it's just a single match on September 29.

[night tusk]

ow okay, I did not know lol

[balmy wolf]

goodbye Valiant

maybe next year

[marsh pumice]

yeh

seems so

[balmy wolf]

yea it's over

[upper niche]

😦

[balmy wolf]

and overtime

[marsh pumice]

and yeh it's done

[balmy wolf]

goodbye valiant

the hunters got a free pass

[minor flame]

WINGS DOWN

[trim shadow]

CHENGDU IS IN

[minor flame]

CHENGDU GETS IN BABY

[raw ermine]

YAY

[visual glen]

🦀 HOPES ARE GONE 🦀

[raw ermine]

LETS GO CHENGDU

[willow moon]

Valiant fought well

[balmy wolf]

If only LA beat seoul then this wouldnt be happening at all

They tried

[trim shadow]

F for valiant

[balmy wolf]

Space was good

sadly it wasn't enough for the juggernaut that was the shock

[trim shadow]

Space the only consistent on the team

[balmy wolf]

But holy shit shock look like their goats selves again

Im talking about their stage 2 goats

[minor flame]

Shock just look unstoppable

honestly

[balmy wolf]

choi the hog god

[minor flame]

everyone on shock is a star player

with their team cohesion

[balmy wolf]

NEVIX

[trim shadow]

Two best teams are facing in the first round of the playoffs

What luck

[balmy wolf]

they're the most expensive team

so I would say yea

in terms of salary?

[raw ermine]

oh

I thought Nevix was korean

lol

[balmy wolf]

No I mean in general

Philly is the most well funded team in the league

comcast money is no joke

They have a crap ton of players who I'm sure are paid 100K easily each

If Rascal isn't paid 100K i'd be furious

Sinatraa was the most paid player last season

Actually no

Seagull was making 200k

[trim shadow]

New york is well funded

Probably the most well funded

They just have a choking habit

[visual glen]

wtf is this

[balmy wolf]

Philly is own by comcast

the guys who making a $50 million stadium

[trim shadow]

And boston is own by kraft

Robert kraft

[balmy wolf]

Im just saying comcast is the one who dumps the most money on their team

[tropic herald]

Hangzhou has BiliBili

[balmy wolf]

Just because they're owned by comcast doesn't mean they're paid well by comcast

[trim shadow]

Shanghai has netease

And netease is worth billions

[balmy wolf]

Shock had like how many players at the start of the season?

how many of them were well paid for?

[tropic herald]

11

[balmy wolf]

Boston pays their players dogshit

kraft in general is frugal with their sport teams

Boston indeed is paid like dog shit

[tropic herald]

Boston’s .org sucks

[balmy wolf]

interesting

Philly is the one who generally gets the most money funnel to the team

I'm looking at it

[gaunt acorn]

@balmy wolf sorta does tho

because they do get a lot of comcast money

[balmy wolf]

^

a lot...

[tropic herald]

Who owns Vancouver?

[gaunt acorn]

aquilini group

[balmy wolf]

yea but how much of that is invested into their team? They didn't make any changes at all this season besides if I recall Sado going for Fraggi?

[gaunt acorn]

owners of the vancouver canucks hockey team

@balmy wolf that's more of a coaching/management issue than a money issue

i believe they've been paying some of their contenders players (fusion uni) more than average owl salaries

[balmy wolf]

okay cool

theres a reason why carpe stays on the team even though his team is meh rn

cause he's their best player?

I'm more wondering why boombox is on the team when I'm sure there are better alternatives

Besides salary, philly offers a lot things that most teams wish would have

Well more willing to offer luxuries to the players

[tropic herald]

Boom box is probably gone next season

[mental estuary]

F for agilities

[visual glen]

Wtf ball lmao

[balmy wolf]

Remember when ppl talked about how striker would be a widow god and you'd want him for Tracer play but Tracer hasn't been meta and his widow play wasn't really impressive either

Actually his widow has been decent

if you been looking at the game

[upper niche]

I just don't want to see matches like GLA vs VAL where it feels like without that one player the team would have got rolled.

It's not fun to watch.

[tropic herald]

I mean Striker was grinding widow and had some crazy high crit rate

[upper niche]

I mean it was a great game... but ruined by all these random Surefour picks when the rest of the team was playing very average.

[balmy wolf]

I just find it really funny; they picked up striker to do both widow and tracer but both aren't meta and I have; it's not been impressive

when compared to other pro widows anyway

[upper niche]

Tracer and Widow are seeing plenty of use.

[tropic herald]

I mean just about every pro widow is insane though

[upper niche]

It's just Tracer isn't in every bloody match like we used to see.

[balmy wolf]

I mean now; Tracer isn't meta and the most use she sees is to rush back to point for a recontest and only stays if she has ult

[forest raven]

Shock boolin

[balmy wolf]

shock just crushed all of valiant's dreams

But it nice to have striker when he is needed

[upper niche]

Does this mean the next CaliCup match will be SFS vs GLA?

[balmy wolf]

Every team would like a player like striker

A grinder of a player

[forest raven]

Did nevix pop

[tropic herald]

Super also is a grinder

[balmy wolf]

Nevix did fine

Then again they memed on LA so not much to go by

[tropic herald]

Nevix is good but Choi is......

[balmy wolf]

nutty

Choi is one the best in the league

thats hard to top

[forest raven]

Choi is so good Nevix would probably be an upgrade for the off tank spot on nearly every team

[balmy wolf]

choi made a point about why he should have been considered MVP

[supple prism]

choi and rascal

[balmy wolf]

Every player on shock is a starter player on any other team

[tropic herald]

Every Shock player could be MVP or start on another team

[balmy wolf]

Rascal could be mvp for I think anyrole

tank play withholding

I thought sinatraa would be meh after role lock

But he has improve on dps big time

[tropic herald]

I think he’s their doom player

[balmy wolf]

Seems pretty obvious

[upper niche]

Imagine Reign beat Shock in round 1 and Shock have to come through the lower bracket. Could happen.

[balmy wolf]

Charge will probs beat the hunters

I hope dragons beat philly

[marsh pumice]

so no more games today isn't it?

[balmy wolf]

that was it

that was the last game

[trim shadow]

Next games are play ins

[upper niche]

That's the last regular season game until February next year.

[tropic herald]

When do playins start

[marsh pumice]

okis

ty

[balmy wolf]

play ins start friday

[tropic herald]

Lit

[trim shadow]

Think its

The byes are london and seoul

Guangzhou plays philly

chengdu plays shanghai

Then the lowest plays london

The second lowest plays seoul

[tropic herald]

I would say Guangzhou is getting out of play ins

[upper niche]

30/08: GZC (9) v CDH (12), PHI (10) v SHD (11)

31/08: LDN v low, SEO v high.

[tropic herald]

I’m thinking GZC and PHI win but idk who they face next

[trim shadow]

The highest to get out is guangzhou and seoul

Shanghai will lose to chengdu

[upper niche]

Basically, if GZC win, SEO play them and LDN play the winner of the other match. If CDH win, LDN play them and SEO play the winner of the other match.

[trim shadow]

Thats the only gurantee

Guangzhou or atlanta can raise hell in playoffs

And i have atlanta winning Gf in my bracket

[tropic herald]

I think Guangzhou is getting into playoffs

Idk who else

Maybe London

[upper niche]

I'm tipping ATL to beat SFS in the opening round.

[trim shadow]

Itll be a

Sludgefest

Longest playoff game this year

[balmy wolf]

Playoffs are double elim like last yr

[tropic herald]

Honestly won’t be surprised if Atlanta or Shock or both are in finals

Yes

[balmy wolf]

Play ins are single elim

[tropic herald]

Wait Sigma is live for postseason, that’s gonna mess the whole thing up

[balmy wolf]

blizz doesn't give a fuck apparently

[tropic herald]

Competitive integrity who?

[trim shadow]

It wont mess things up

Teams have had

All of stage 4

[tropic herald]

Yea new heroes don’t ever mess up anything :)

[trim shadow]

To practice sigma

[tropic herald]

Teams had all stage 3 for 222 but look at them

[trim shadow]

Thats coaches fault

Not patch fault

Its also org fault

[balmy wolf]

You know it takes a while for teams to settle into a new meta right?

Its not instant

[tropic herald]

I mean having 3/4 of a season be irrelevant to the playoffs is kinda bad

[trim shadow]

Some teams were on the down swing anyway

And some are slow to adapt

and some were ready from stage 1

the seasons irrelevant

[tropic herald]

It doesn’t matter, a competitive sport having its rules completely flipped mid season is bad for the competitive integrity

[trim shadow]

Right shock and vancouver have been at the top and neither sunk when 222 locked but right

Its litterally a power balance

[tropic herald]

Vancouver has def sunk

[trim shadow]

Lemme stop feeding the bridge troll

[balmy wolf]

Titans are not the dominant team last the last 3 stages.

Nor have they look dominant as both shock or reign

[tropic herald]

Or even Washington

[balmy wolf]

This the same problem that fortnite has but more tame

fortnite changes the meta every 2 weeks

[tropic herald]

Imagine the NFL decides that you can’t have quarterbacks anymore halfway through the season, it’s the orgs fault the team can’t prepare for the complete change of the sport :)

[limber pine]

Coaches and players

Not org

Well, coaches, gm, and players

But “org” is such a general word that it would benefit you to use something more specific

[trim shadow]

Managers

Buisness nerds kinda

Scouts

[tropic herald]

Alright but the point of my statement is that this gets rid of competitive integrity and it’s not good for a League that is trying to assert themselves as a good competitive league

That’s why everyone has bailing on Fortnite recently

Wow I can’t type

[balmy wolf]

really is a shame that charge and london can't be 7th and 8th

wait mb i'm wrong

[trim shadow]

Think the way its setup

The lowest seed gets london

So in this case chengdu

The 2nd lowest is guangzhou

cause lets be honest philly isnt beating guangzhou

[balmy wolf]

I wanna see it now

cause it should give everyone a vague idea of how the meta would look

[trim shadow]

The meta going into next year

Unless grandad jeff roles out a hero at blizzcon

[balmy wolf]

i mean that's likely

we get a hero roughly every 4 months

[trim shadow]

Next up is a map

Then a hero

[upper niche]

Maps every 3 months, heroes every 4 isn't it?

TBH the OW map pool is more than decent now. When it first came out it needed some serious additions, but now it's more than varied.

[willow moon]

I want a Rio map ):

Should we move this convo to OWD?

[upper niche]

Rio... like... casinos and bright lights Rio, or Rio De Janiro?

or like... mining company Rio Tinto? Or the Rio Las Vegas?

Cos I can totally see an OW 2CP map happening in a big open-cut mine, a power plant control terminal, and a transformer array.

[willow moon]

Rio de Janeiro

I wanna play on my country

And we have Lucio so plz

[trim shadow]

las vegas map

[balmy wolf]

Why do yall think overwatch esports shrinks while league continues to grow even though its like 10 years old?

[upper hawk]

oh dang Gladiators are getting a 6.000 seat arena in Inglewood

[forest raven]

Kroenke money

[upper hawk]

yeah lol

its being built next to the new rams/chargers stadium

[cedar drum]

@upper hawk Sentinels is a rowing esports org now

They are gonna use that arena for a lot of esport events and stuff.

Ofc it's main branding might be for Gladiators but it's probably gonna be used or rented throughout the year.

[white dock]

Does watching the reruns on the owl app give you tokens?

[echo quest]

No

[white dock]

Ty

[hybrid tiger]

How did valiant vs shock ended?

[trim shadow]

was kinda a ass whooping

[hybrid tiger]

I was actually hoping for some miracle from valiant

[forest raven]

Valiant got boomed

Shock played Nevix and Sina on 76 last map

Still absolutely thrashed val

[dusk sphinx]

Shock have only 1 real opponent atm Though

Maybe 2 more that could pose a decent challange

[forest raven]

I think Reign or Charge are gonna be the dark horse of the playoffs

Reign could just randomly win it all tbh

[dusk sphinx]

Reign is the only real thread to Shock at all

Charge will not be easy for them either but they're much more beatable than the Reign

Titans always be a challange due to how stiff they play, Although they're really easy to counterplay since they still solely play Goat style

[karmic grotto]

When it's map 4 so Reign just bring in Gator and FunnyAstro, and they still be trolling and winning the match

I bet their comms video is gonna be hilarious

Gator emoting all the time with its Orisa celebration

[dusk sphinx]

Gator was really funny to watch

FunnyAstro kinda impressed me to be fair

I love the way he plays, a bit like Dogman but then on Lucio and Mercy instead of Zen or Ana

[karmic grotto]

Aggro Reddit Lucio and Mercy

It works

It brings a new dynamic in Reign, G and FA

[dusk sphinx]

Well it fits the Reign perfectly

The NYXL for instance would be bottom tier if they had Astro and Dogman as supports

[echo quest]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/cvooyy/poko_is_really_upset_about_the_meta/

[vale pond]

After watching atl it was painful watching how passive ny was

[balmy wolf]

it was painful to sub out flower for nenne despite flower clearly out performing nenne

and then to watch nenne mess up another ultimate that led to a team defeat

[limber pine]

nyxl has a non-libero dps problem

[balmy wolf]

Also is it just me over noticing things but did Anamo die way more frequently recently? And did Meko eat almost no ults?

[dusk sphinx]

NYXL has problems in general

Jjonak can't pop off nearly as much without Goats either

He's been very average lately imo

[balmy wolf]

Anamo dying more recently
Meko really not being a good DVA but serviceable
And Nenne whiffing ultimates which cost them games

And NYXL's inability or lack of want to swap out Nenne

I don't think Jjonak is the issue; jjonak is still good but the competition for his role has drastically increased

[native crescent]

nenne is a throw

[dusk sphinx]

Nenne is just pathatic

[native crescent]

^^

Keep flower in for god

[balmy wolf]

Nenne is the most stressful player to watch on NYXL

cause when he performs well it's okay

[native crescent]

why does pine not play

[balmy wolf]

but when he fucks up

[native crescent]

I forgot

[balmy wolf]

it's really really noticable

[dusk sphinx]

A bit like Hooreg but at least Hooreg popped off a few times

[balmy wolf]

Cause Meta doesn't suit his two heroes

McCree and Widow

[native crescent]

mei-reaper for nyxl is trash

[dusk sphinx]

Pine is not flexible enough at all

[balmy wolf]

And Nenne and SBB and Flower I believe can play Widow

[native crescent]

if pine practices he could be

[balmy wolf]

Hell I think Libero too

[dusk sphinx]

Pine is THE definition of an OTP

[balmy wolf]

technically two trick

[native crescent]

I was watching last night

I was hoping we would win

[balmy wolf]

I was too

[native crescent]

but nenne came in

😛

[balmy wolf]

Despite Flower being on fucking fire

[dusk sphinx]

Hitscan only counts as OTP in my book

[native crescent]

flower is popping recentl

[balmy wolf]

Glad he found his stride

[trim shadow]

flower mustve

took a steroid

he went from feeding

[native crescent]

flower shoulda got player of the match

[trim shadow]

to fucking jojo character

[balmy wolf]

Player of the match only goes to the winning team

[native crescent]

bumper sucks lets all agree

he feeds

[dusk sphinx]

Bumper was decent at Rein

[balmy wolf]

Bumper is playing the intentional Heel and it says a lot about a player when the team wins a significant amount without him

[dusk sphinx]

As Orisa he's almost Janus level

That's how bad he is

[native crescent]

I think nyxl could win their first game in playoffs

[balmy wolf]

but I digress

[native crescent]

depends who we play

[balmy wolf]

I was hoping NY won so that they could make bumper eat his words

[native crescent]

ye

[balmy wolf]

but nenne shat the bed and shat on their honor

[native crescent]

yep

who should we be most scared of playing our first match

[dusk sphinx]

NYXL won't win if they face the teams who are expected to win Play-Ins

[native crescent]

as NYXL

[balmy wolf]

Honestly?

It's a mixed bag

[dusk sphinx]

If they face London Has-Beens they might win

[balmy wolf]

I think the playins are going to be london

or charge

but with the new meta shift

things are going to get hectic

[native crescent]

well london we can beat

[dusk sphinx]

Vs Charge they might not even try, they'll get their arses kicked

[balmy wolf]

New meta shift

Yo I wouldn't say that

New Meta shift means new dps heroes potentially

[dusk sphinx]

Charge are the 3rd best team in the league atm

[balmy wolf]

With Sigma, double shields becomes a thing

[echo quest]

London boutta win the whole team ez

Like last year

[native crescent]

when is sigma avalible in owl

[balmy wolf]

So in general; I'm expecting either more Symmetra or more Doomfist

[dusk sphinx]

Also I doubt Sigma will be played that much due to Mei

[balmy wolf]

Next week

[echo quest]

At their peak they beat any team

[native crescent]

so during playoffs they add a new character

[balmy wolf]

yea

[native crescent]

NYXL could beat anyone

[dusk sphinx]

The Reign are the only ones really preparing already for play-offs by the way

With GREAT success

[native crescent]

without nenne

change my mind

[echo quest]

Get a dps

To pair with libero

[native crescent]

flower is dps

wdym

[echo quest]

Pops off for one match

[balmy wolf]

Nenne just is stressful to watch; as a dps I really think he's mid tier but he's the most flexible dps they have withholding Nenne and Flower

[dusk sphinx]

NYXL can't. Mano and Jjonak don't do enough without the protection they got in goats

[echo quest]

Doesn’t mean he should start

[native crescent]

Nyxl subs 2 much

they need 2 let players get in a rythm

[dusk sphinx]

Especially Mano has been poor lately

[balmy wolf]

poor dude has been bullied

dealing with reapers and mei's in his face

Meko hasn't looked impressive at all

Same with Nenne

Anamo has also been dying way more than I'm used to seeing of him

[native crescent]

do we have any other tanks besides mano and meko

[balmy wolf]

no

[echo quest]

No

[balmy wolf]

we got 4 dps tho

we had 3 suppoprts but ark got thrown to washington

[dusk sphinx]

Anamo has always been average at best imo

[balmy wolf]

rip ark

[echo quest]

No main support for Mano or Jjonak

Anamo

[balmy wolf]

I don't think that's fair to say

Main healer hasn't ever been a flashy role on average despite what ppl say

not every game enables enviornmentals

[native crescent]

Last year was nyxl's best chance 2 win

for the next years coming

[balmy wolf]

and not every game enables battle mercy

[dusk sphinx]

Anamo is the first to be picked off in most of the NYXL team fights that They lose

[balmy wolf]

also true

[echo quest]

Nah he’s good not much he can do to change things. Ark looked liked shit until stage 4 where Washington looked good

[dusk sphinx]

In most teams that's either the main tank in goats

And a DPS in 2/2/2

[native crescent]

we have good dps they just cant work together and dont play the heros they are good with

like nenne

dont play reaper

[balmy wolf]

not necessarily

[dusk sphinx]

NYXL dps are not flexible in the slightest

[echo quest]

Libero

[balmy wolf]

Libero being an exception

[dusk sphinx]

A team like the Dragons have the same issue

[echo quest]

Who are the best orisa‘ den

Rn*

[dusk sphinx]

Libero doesn't have the skill to solo carry though Like Saya or Corey can, despite him being an above average player

[balmy wolf]

SBB: Tracer, Widow, A shit Sombra
Pine: McCree, Widow
Nenne: Tracer, Widow, McCree, Supposedly Sombra, A shit tier reaper but still a reaper

Idr what libero and flower play

[dusk sphinx]

SBB is an has-been too

[native crescent]

if tracer mcree and all those characters are in meta nyxl is one of the best teams

but since the meta is mei reaper we are held back

[balmy wolf]

Dude specialized on one hero and clearly didn't practice enough to master Sombra fully on the level required like Danteh

I mean you can argue that about any team

[dusk sphinx]

Best Orisa in the league is imo Reigns Anamo

[balmy wolf]

in a widow dominated meta

Corey would carry washington

[echo quest]

@dusk sphinx Pokpo you mean

[dusk sphinx]

Pokpo sorry

[native crescent]

well we can just hope nyxl can atleast pull out atlest one victory in the playoffs

[balmy wolf]

They should

[native crescent]

but that's like a 1% chance

[dusk sphinx]

Anyways the problem with Justice is they die when Corey dies

[balmy wolf]

Play offs they have a good chance

[native crescent]

who will they ply

[balmy wolf]

mainly because they get to watch their competition fight for their playin spots

[native crescent]

who will nyxl play

most likely

[balmy wolf]

and by doing so they get a good look at th potential meta and comp

they play I believe the 8th seed?

which has yet to be determined

[dusk sphinx]

We've seen this with the Reign when Corey got 2 on Reigns side, but he got taken down and Justice still lost the fight due to their awful tank line

[native crescent]

isn't nyxl 2 seeds?

and Vancouver 1 seed

[balmy wolf]

sorry mb 7th seed

then

[dusk sphinx]

NYXL is seed 3 I believe

Shock is 2

[native crescent]

atlanta vs shock will be good match

nyxl and Vancouver have no matches set yet

[balmy wolf]

NYXL Will be fighting 7th seed I believe

Shock fight Atlanta

[native crescent]

ye

[balmy wolf]

So NYXL will be fighting one of the playin teams

[native crescent]

bc of devisions

[balmy wolf]

which is to their advantage because they get to watch the competition and learn a bit more about them

[trim shadow]

@dusk sphinx seed 2*

[balmy wolf]

But still my money is on London or Charge winning those play ins

What NYXL does after that is in the air

[native crescent]

nyxl could beat any of these teams besides the charge

[trim shadow]

l u l

[native crescent]

maybe london

[dusk sphinx]

Atl vs SF should be the finals if anything

[balmy wolf]

I am not gonna discount london

[trim shadow]

new york will get walked if they meet atlanta early

[balmy wolf]

they rubberband potential

that's assuming atlanta beats the shock

[dusk sphinx]

London is pretty much the worst out of all play in teams

[balmy wolf]

which I don't think possible

Shock look like the strongest competitors

[native crescent]

atlanta is doing hot 2

[trim shadow]

its also awkward

[native crescent]

that match I see 5 games ez

[trim shadow]

the two grand final participants

[balmy wolf]

yea but they've also been fighting against pretty bottom teams most of stage 4

[trim shadow]

are most liklely meeting up

for a chance at playoffs

[dusk sphinx]

Atl will probably get to the finals even if they lose to the Shock

Theyre too prepared for the next patch for them to drop out early

[balmy wolf]

it is a question about what heroes will be meta cause currently no one knows

I do expect a lot more sigma

[native crescent]

We just have 2 wait

[trim shadow]

if anything i dont expect shock to be all prepared for sigma patch

[balmy wolf]

they'll just make rascal learn sigma

[dusk sphinx]

I don't think Sigma would get too much play

[balmy wolf]

dude picks up heroes fast

[native crescent]

supers out here grinding sigma in comp

[balmy wolf]

and hasn't shown himself on tank so he'll dominate on that too

[native crescent]

whos ur mvp pick

[balmy wolf]

i'm half memeing

truth be told I think Jjanu deserves it

[dusk sphinx]

Sigma dies too hard to Mei Reaper to really get meta I think

[native crescent]

who are all the mvp canadites

[balmy wolf]

That dude is an impressive DVA who had to, as jjonak put it, "Bumper walks forward and the other 5 clean up after him" And jjanu been clutch on those clean ups and bombs

[dusk sphinx]

That being said he's a rediculous counter to Widow so on King's Row he might be the go to off tank

[balmy wolf]

Guxue, Twilight, Super, Sinatraa, and Jjanu

[native crescent]

Guxue is my fave player

[dusk sphinx]

Super deserves it most imo

He was nuts on the Rein

[echo quest]

How does he deserve when he’s benched

It*

[dusk sphinx]

Last stage the MVP should be FRD imo

[balmy wolf]

nuts on rein isn't enough; Sinatraa has also proved himself on both Zarya and Doomfist and really any of the DPS he's shown thus far

in all 4 stages

and likely to win

[native crescent]

but their arnt as many main tanks as dps so

[trim shadow]

how does one say sigma wont get play

with a shield that can be placed anywhere

accreation

and that ult

[balmy wolf]

I'm thinking double shield meta

[echo quest]

Choi,Haksal or Slime deserve it over anyone in the top 5

[balmy wolf]

Which is stupid meta btw cause you can't shield break that

it's going to be dumb

[native crescent]

I swear if they play bastion

[balmy wolf]

Choi deserves it way more

[trim shadow]

its going to be toxic but i wanna see sigma either way

[balmy wolf]

Haksal didn't get to play until stage 4 I believe

so not him

[trim shadow]

not like any other ow meta hasnt been toxic

[balmy wolf]

Choi tho

dude has been astonishing on off tank

[echo quest]

@balmy wolf tf

[balmy wolf]

oh wait

[echo quest]

He was the best brig in the league

[balmy wolf]

sorry he was the brig right?

[native crescent]

whos the best anna

[dusk sphinx]

Well as I said Sigma dies too hard to any Goat style comps

[native crescent]

u think

[balmy wolf]

mb my mind was on twlight and slime on support totally phased out

[dusk sphinx]

To really be meta

[native crescent]

slime is good

[balmy wolf]

Twilight; Jjonak

[trim shadow]

sigma dies to hard?

what?
\

[balmy wolf]

you could argue Kariv

but he hasn't been able to repeat his performance when LAV fought the titans

[native crescent]

jjonak needs 2 dump the moira

its not working

[dusk sphinx]

And since Mei Reaper Goat forces Sigmas lack of mobility makes him a questionable choice

[native crescent]

cya

[trim shadow]

what?

[dusk sphinx]

Also let's not forget, Sigma has the lowest dps of all tanks so the shield break will be Pretty much the same as with a solo shield

[native crescent]

but sym and sigma wont really work in same meta

[dusk sphinx]

Before you guys say that's false, his dps is very low it just looks high due to it being burst dps

[balmy wolf]

So what you're saying is; you're expecting basically what stage 4 has been

besides sigma, what buffs or nerfs are coming into the patches?

New brig right?

[dusk sphinx]

Yes, but then maybe with some extra Sym and some Sigma on sniper heavy maps like Kings Row

Maybe he'll be run in double sniper

But that won't be meta probably

[balmy wolf]

I expect double shield to beat out double sniper with a sym for damage and mei to block/wall people out

[trim shadow]

sideshow and bren litterally mentioned sigma and orisa were runned alot in scrims

[dusk sphinx]

Idk you don't see Rein Orisa at all either and Sigmas shield has a similar long recharge time

[balmy wolf]

You don't but rein and sigma aren't exactly a 1:1 comparison; they're close mind you but sigma provides more and he can actually dps while his shield recharges

cause orisa

rein can't do that cause he's too close range

on defense it's hard to break and the only conceivable counter I can imagine to it is like Sym or hackfist dive

[dusk sphinx]

Well with Sigma your shield break will be much less than with a Hog or Dva

So that's a problem

He's a Baptiste Bunker/Entrenchment hero if I had to put him into comps

[balmy wolf]

Sigma and Orisa on defense; there's no guarantee it'll be run on a mirrored offense
Say you're doing a map like kings row; you have a sym on defense with a TP to escape and help move the team and turrets set up with a high beam charge and a mei to wall ppl off
Snipers get no value due to sigma and orisa shields so it becomes a mirror of either who breaks shield first or who can zone out who first or who can kill the sym

the point of it isn't to shield break with sigma or orisa and sigma and orisa both have abilities that make hook useless

the only other conceivable dps I can think of is Doomfist because he ignores the shields entirely

that reminds me, can sigma be hacked out of his ult?

[dusk sphinx]

Sigma is a great hero but hes just too odd to be played in most comps

[pearl stratus]

Pretty much all scrims right now are Orisa + Sigma.

[dusk sphinx]

Scrims arent a good representation

[pearl stratus]

k

[hidden vault]

Lol it's funny how everyone predicted the sigma ball combo

I think it's great that sigma is breaking traditional tank duos

[balmy wolf]

thats mainly cause he's the embodiment of middle man between main and off tank

I feel like his biggest weakness is a lack of mobility but if sym becomes meta that won't be an issue

[dusk sphinx]

Yeah his mobility won't make him meta I think

Also he's more fragile than people expect I think

[balmy wolf]

thats if you don't know how to play him

which I wouldn't trust most people below masters as tank mains to do

[dusk sphinx]

Well I am Masters yet I still have the problem getting wiped by Reaper Mei

No way to get away from the Mei

[storm cloak]

Sigma and Zarya can just eat so much damage

Shields, bubbles the absorb thing

It just eats all ults

[jagged crater]

are we ready for sym meta

[dusk sphinx]

Sigmas absorb is easy to bait out and has a long cooldown though

But it is better than Dmatrix cause it eats literally all projectiles

Apart from His own

[willow moon]

He only eats what's in front of him tho

Or a little diagonally

[dusk sphinx]

As does Dva

Difference is, Sigma also eats hook

[willow moon]

Yes and it's beautiful 😛

[dusk sphinx]

Which seems not to matter much but is actually HUGE

[trim shadow]

Did

Did that mf say scrims are not a good represensation of a meta

[tropic herald]

Team USA has 3 dps and none of them are flex dps

Wooo Aero pulling a sneaky on is

Us

[limber pine]

They don't have to be flex dps

they just have to flex enough

KSF will likely be the flex though

[queen drift]

they kinda are flex dps tho

they have great Doomfist, Genji, Hanzo, Mei

only hero they dont have is Junk

[karmic grotto]

J@ke

But seriously tho

How much faith does USA have on Aero

This is his last chance to prove

[limber pine]

I mean

how would you add instead

obviously a case can and should be made for Sleepy/Dogman over Rawkus

but Sleepy's been benched and Dogman has admitted himself that his tryouts were okay at best

[vale pond]

werent tryouts during goats?

or were they in 2-2-2

[limber pine]

I’d suspect they were 2-2-2

[karmic grotto]

I mean, here's the odd thing

Canada tryout, note wasn't performing great, and Mouffin was outperforming note so hard. Note still was in main roster becuz, muhhh: he is owl, and he has synergy with last year roster, which contradicts what was seen from the live tryouts where xQc had best synergy with Mouffin.

Now, About USA thing. Rawkus was there last year if I'm correct, but he didn't perform well, neither in owl season 2, although Dogman started kinda bad with Zen, he did improve, and when he starts playing his Signature Ana hero, he does it better than any other American flex support (although Sleepy might be equal or better, or worse).

[pearl stratus]

During tryouts Dogman played like Stage 3 Dogman.

Which is a giant pile of shit not worth using in your garden for manure that was throwing games like he was paid to do it.

[karmic grotto]

Yeah, stage 4 was the big change

[pearl stratus]

So you obviously don't pick that.

[karmic grotto]

Still haven't seen Rawkus doing any better

[trim shadow]

I was gonna say didnt teams have todo tryouts in stage 3 then finalize rosters in stage 4

[pearl stratus]

Rawkus has been consistently good on Ana and Moira.

Not amazing, but not bad.

[karmic grotto]

Does he?

[pearl stratus]

He's fine when he's not on Zen.

And Zen isn't meta.

Rawkus plays non-Zen supports well, and most important he gets along with people in a team environment.

Too many people look at skill in a vacuum.

[karmic grotto]

Hmm, so Rawkus did good, was that because he had better teammates at the moment, or because he is better than Dogman

[pearl stratus]

A worse player is more important than a better player if he fits in more.

[karmic grotto]

Then that's a different kind of thing where you are right

[pearl stratus]

Especially in OW where cohesion is arguably the most important aspect of the game.

Now I don't know if Dogman had good or bad cohesion.

[karmic grotto]

But if that cohesion didn't work out last year

What makes it think if will work this year?

[pearl stratus]

The cohesion didn't work out last year because of their Brig and Zarya.

Their supports played well.

Sinatraa was arguably shit at the meta in OWWC17.

Crusty fixed him a LOT.

Which is why no one argues that Crusty is a great coach.

[karmic grotto]

Then that's a coaching issue

[pearl stratus]

Aero, on the other hand, didn't fix Zach all year.

Which is an Aero issue.

[karmic grotto]

True

[pearl stratus]

But thats different from Rawkus.

[balmy wolf]

Yea 3 players are unders crusty coaching.

[pearl stratus]

I don't have faith in Aero, I never have.

[trim shadow]

Between flame and aero i think theyre both in capable

[pearl stratus]

But I do think Rawkus was the correct pick this year.

[trim shadow]

Its just one had no org funding

[pearl stratus]

I do not think he was the correct pick last year.

I think Sleepy was hands down a better pick last year.

[trim shadow]

And one had all@the funding in the world

[karmic grotto]

Let's hope so

[balmy wolf]

Moth is just moth

[pearl stratus]

Moth is really the only NA main support.

So he's getting that spot.

[balmy wolf]

Very few can contend with him

[karmic grotto]

lmao

NA players be like: moth

[pearl stratus]

I mean your only other real options (in OWL) for main support are...

Boink

Who can't play Mercy.

Good lucio, acceptable Baptiste.

[karmic grotto]

[pearl stratus]

And... thats it. So you have to go to Contenders for your Main Support.

And they have to be 18.

[trim shadow]

contenders is pretty dead for MS in NA

[karmic grotto]

Fun how many foreigners NA has with its Contenders

[balmy wolf]

Fire from team envy is great

[karmic grotto]

Almost like, every country outside of USA is better at Overwatch

[pearl stratus]

I don't know if Fire is 18.

[karmic grotto]

Not sure how far USA will go this year

[balmy wolf]

Fire is 18 i think

[pearl stratus]

Eh, that's saying a lot. There's a LOT of bad countries in the world.

[karmic grotto]

But getting beaten by UK, that was one heck of a time watching it live

[pearl stratus]

Most of EU for instance isn't worth a damn.

You have UK, Finland and Sweden left.

No one else.

[karmic grotto]

Well, if T2 doesn't have much support

Why should you even put your time on pro

[pearl stratus]

EU kills itself more than anyone else.

[balmy wolf]

EU shat itself against in the Atlantic showdown

[pearl stratus]

EU is an amazingly egotistical region that is too poor to actually do anything useful.

Flat out.

[karmic grotto]

They need help

Yet nobody is helping them

[pearl stratus]

NA did our part.

We bought your first OWL team.

[trim shadow]

if your not on a academy team 9/10 your not well funded

[karmic grotto]

Meanwhile, Korea is just being Korea and growing, NA is just doing what EU should have done

[pearl stratus]

Since no one else had the money 😛

[trim shadow]

minus i think angry titans

[karmic grotto]

London Spitfire

:/

[pearl stratus]

Rather London than Paris.

To be fair.

[karmic grotto]

Remember Paris Eternal

[pearl stratus]

One has good players who can't play the meta.

[karmic grotto]

what a joke

[pearl stratus]

The other is the Paris Eternal.

[balmy wolf]

China contenders is interesting to say the least

[karmic grotto]

Eternal Academy*

^

I meant this one

[trim shadow]

didnt eternal academy

[pearl stratus]

Chinese contenders is super well funded, and most of those teams would have multiple academy teams if they were allowed.

[karmic grotto]

yes

[trim shadow]

finish last in eu contenders

[karmic grotto]

China is china

their investors tho

huge money on Asia

[pearl stratus]

They have money and they use it.

That's EU's biggest downfall.

[karmic grotto]

Hence why their desks are great

Professionally done

[pearl stratus]

You have lots of small countries who don't want their own teams and hit walls.

[karmic grotto]

Eu is trash

[trim shadow]

china is a manafacturing country

[pearl stratus]

Because each country gets very nationalistic.

[trim shadow]

biggest in the world

[pearl stratus]

Which is double edged.

[balmy wolf]

@pearl stratus team cc almost made it into the gauntlet, but lost to the team that lost china a gauntlet spot in the 1st place

[pearl stratus]

Finland and Sweden should both have an OWL team, honestly. They're the regions that actually produce really good players.

But they're not going to get investment from non-Sweden/non-Finnish companies.

Which is a shame.

[karmic grotto]

Not even EU brands

_>

[pearl stratus]

Germany would make bank off an OWL team too.

They just couldn't have any Germans on the team since Germany doesn't produce enough high tier players.

EU has potential, but no one willing to make the investment.

[karmic grotto]

or Maybe because there isn't any environment for players to reach their potential

As you said so..

[pearl stratus]

Well the EU ladder is its own mess.

[karmic grotto]

So messy ML7 rather plays at East Coast

[pearl stratus]

The downside to having so many small countries with so many languages.

Clusterfuck of comms.

[karmic grotto]

English is the common ground here

Universal

[pearl stratus]

Yeah but when people tilt they drop that real quick.

I've seen enough of the French players to know that.

And I'm not even in EU.

[karmic grotto]

Profanity in their own language

[pearl stratus]

You guys need like..

EU (Non-France/Russia)
EU (Other people)

[karmic grotto]

Well, in Netherlands, our esports orgs are rising up in rankings

For some Dota tournament,. they end up second sadly

Fortnite, got first/second place in duo battle

At least something is rising up here

Not sure how it is in other countries

[pearl stratus]

I'd like to see more investment across the board because Korea is being challenged in so many other places.

But not hard enough in OW yet.

[karmic grotto]

You know, it's not that Korea is better

They have just more... attention and support

[pearl stratus]

Yeah I know.

[karmic grotto]

People saying "you need koreans to win", exactly what makes them better than non-Koreans?

[pearl stratus]

That's why I made the comment on investment.

Because it goes hand in hand with the latter.

NA, in my opinion, has enough talented players.

We just have so few good coaches.

[karmic grotto]

They have

[trim shadow]

korea is getting challenged the most in leauge i think

[balmy wolf]

I thought NA was considered the weakest server

[karmic grotto]

minus Aero <

[trim shadow]

they didnt even make grand finals at worlds

[karmic grotto]

Asia tho

[pearl stratus]

Nah, PAC and SA are still much lower.

[karmic grotto]

if USA can't beat China, they won't be anywhere closer to SK

and SK has Crusty

[pearl stratus]

I think China is better than USA regardless.

RUI is just that good.

[karmic grotto]

They are 100%

[pearl stratus]

RUI with a real main tank in Guxue?

For the second year?

Things better be interesting.

[karmic grotto]

Either USA takes us by surprise or a big flop

Guxue can be coached tho

His Winston is still there in case

[pearl stratus]

Guxue doesn't even really need much coaching.

[karmic grotto]

Why not?

[trim shadow]

hes naturally skilled

in a way

[pearl stratus]

I mean he still does, but he wouldn't be one of chinas weaker links.

[balmy wolf]

Guxue already is a top tier MT

[pearl stratus]

I'd focus my coaching more on China's supports.

[karmic grotto]

The supports?

[trim shadow]

and then chengdu signed leave

so if chengdu isnt top 5 all year

i dont fucking know

[karmic grotto]

Last year it was Sky

Who the heck is Sky?

[pearl stratus]

Sky was on Shanghai in S1.

[karmic grotto]

F

[pearl stratus]

For a small period.

Nah

He's -really- good.

He just needs the right coach.

As we saw last year

At OWWC.

[balmy wolf]

Well jirquien needs to actually play with chengdu instead of ameng

[pearl stratus]

I feel bad for Sky because he came in at the midpoint.

When they were doing mixed Korean/English comms.

[trim shadow]

jiqiren*

[pearl stratus]

And he just couldn't do it.

So his showing in S1 was nowhere near his actual potential.

[balmy wolf]

Hmm...

[pearl stratus]

But I argue that about most of Shanghai's players.

Not all.

But there's some of them that are much better than they looked in S1.

[balmy wolf]

So in Season 4; how many new teams would you all like to see?

[pearl stratus]

It'll be 4.

[trim shadow]

5 for me

[pearl stratus]

Least amount of issues if they do it in groups of four.

[trim shadow]

1 na the rest in euro and busan

[pearl stratus]

One per division.

[balmy wolf]

Needs to be even

[pearl stratus]

Or I could see one division getting 2.

[trim shadow]

or 4 euro and busan

[karmic grotto]

you know what

Wanna see some new owl team with Nai as coach

[balmy wolf]

Its Seoul dynasty not allowing any other kr owl team?

iirc they didn't allow london to go in seoul to do fan events

[pearl stratus]

No, there was interest in S2 of more Korean teams.

[karmic grotto]

KOREAN

[pearl stratus]

It just didn't finalize out.

[karmic grotto]

^ good

no more Koreans

[balmy wolf]

if we do get 4+ what countries do you think would be getting them?

[karmic grotto]

More non and help them expand

[trim shadow]

sweden maybe

germany finland

[pearl stratus]

I'm guessing we'll be getting Busan, honestly.

Another mid/midwest team in US potentially.

[karmic grotto]

You know... UAE is big in monies

[pearl stratus]

Chicago, etc all viable for profit.

[trim shadow]

if we dont get busan then ??? blizzard

regional rivals with seoul?

[karmic grotto]

North Korea

[pearl stratus]

I'd love to get a Copenhagen/Berlin type team.

[karmic grotto]

let's go

[balmy wolf]

Depends on the people wanting to invest

[pearl stratus]

But I doubt the EU can get its shit together.

[trim shadow]

katowice team

[pearl stratus]

But maybe OWL can convince investors to buy into the EU market.

[karmic grotto]

OWL team cost money

exactly WHAT cost money?

[trim shadow]

like i think

[karmic grotto]

buy ins?

[trim shadow]

35-40 mil

to get a team

[pearl stratus]

Yeah, Franchises are 20m base.

[karmic grotto]

technically what happens

you give money to blizz to be allowed to be an owl team

[balmy wolf]

I think EU has the most untapped market

[pearl stratus]

Yeah like every other league in the world in every sport lol

[balmy wolf]

but then again idk what it's like over there

[karmic grotto]

which is odd

[trim shadow]

its

complicated

most of europe is shitty

but esports wise its gold

[pearl stratus]

Not really. It's a shared investment.

[karmic grotto]

Because what if those OWL team orgs decided to part ways with blizzard and become their own league?

[pearl stratus]

Teams make money on the ROI.

[balmy wolf]

@karmic grotto blizzard will literally just shut down anyone

[pearl stratus]

^

[balmy wolf]

They own the game

[pearl stratus]

Remember when they said no to literally EVERY tournament in the world minus OWL and T2?

[trim shadow]

if those owl team orgs part ways with orgs theyll have to sell their team first?

like infinity

[karmic grotto]

They said no to any other tournaments becuz they were too lazy

until Nate came

[pearl stratus]

Don't be dumb.

They did it so focus was literally only on OWL.

It's enforced hype.

It was a smart business decision.

[balmy wolf]

They want attention on owl

And it worked

[karmic grotto]

anything works if you have authority

if not, OWL would exist, but in different way

[pearl stratus]

It'd just still be Apex.

[karmic grotto]

And they would have no income

And that's interesting

[trim shadow]

think if it was still apex apex wouldve gone the Leauge route

[balmy wolf]

so like someone please correct me cause I'm still kinda lost;
With season 3; it'll be up to the teams or OWL to pick the venue to play in?

[trim shadow]

franchising orgs

[pearl stratus]

I'm waiting for all the OWL is dying posts.

[karmic grotto]

They can't let other people have tournaments and them winning the prize

[trim shadow]

isntead of home market

[pearl stratus]

@balmy wolf Teams with Blizzard sign off.

Blizzard has to okay the venue I'd assume, since they do all the production etc. So it has to be viable.

I'm waiting to see what Uprising does for a venue.

I think they'd be smart to use NEC if they can manage it,.

[trim shadow]

they could be buildiing there own

like apperantly gladiators are getting theirs built

[pearl stratus]

TD Garden works too, since they've done LoL events

Not enough space in Boston to build your own, honestly. Unless they buy a property and tear it down.

NEC is New England College, so you get an instant crowd on campus for ticket sales.

TD Garden is just... well its the TD Garden.

[trim shadow]

thats actually a smart move...if you get a arena near a college campus you get a younger demographic

[pearl stratus]

BU has the Agganis Arena too

[trim shadow]

and you can establish maybe a academy in the arena

if that college has a ow team

[pearl stratus]

I think Agganis seats up to 5k.

[karmic grotto]

?

[pearl stratus]

So that'd actually be perfect.

[karmic grotto]

LA crowd was pathetic imo...

[trim shadow]

well no shit

valiant got smacked

by a canadian

[pearl stratus]

It was too consistent.

[trim shadow]

and a 10 gm's

[pearl stratus]

It's part of the reason sports travel.

To keep up hype for when there's home games.

When they're -always- at the same place, you lose out.

[trim shadow]

i feel bad for valiant next year..since theyre in the same division with vancouver shock and gladiators

and there only in division wins will come from dallas

[karmic grotto]

Why bad?

They can improve

[trim shadow]

it will take alot of improvement

[pearl stratus]

Eh LAV is pretty dynamic.

They basically had what..

[balmy wolf]

They got a whole off season

[pearl stratus]

Two stages of actual paly?

[trim shadow]

especially since the shock titans and gladiators are most likely not gonna make roster move

[pearl stratus]

And still almost made the playins.

I wouldn't count them out of anything next year.

[trim shadow]

also have to take into account that division is a death division

since theyre playing alot of games in asia

and then having to come back to america

[karmic grotto]

[trim shadow]

i think valiant goto asia one week and then are back in the us for games

[pearl stratus]

West plays nothing in Asia in their own division though.

[balmy wolf]

La is also the team that was one of the most dominant in s1

[pearl stratus]

Their actual time travelling won't be as much as you think

[balmy wolf]

La needs time

[karmic grotto]

Was... Before all the new heroes came

[trim shadow]

isnt it like

a 12 hour flight to china

and back to la

[karmic grotto]

It's reasonable since they only play weekend

[pearl stratus]

13ish.

And yeah they only play weekends. So you still get a full five day recoup if they're playing that next weekend.

Now if games started on Wednesday/Thursday again?

Different story.

[trim shadow]

kinda good that the leauge decided to keep games on weekends

kinda resembles NFL soccer kind of leauges

[pearl stratus]

Also remember to fact in the time zones