But some Silver spaz? That Grav is probably going to take.. 75-80 seconds (If you're lucky). At 80 seconds its increasing it by 10 seconds, which is a much more noticeable hit.
#esports-discussion
pearl stratus
Actually silver/gold... I'd say more towards the two minute mark realistically for Grav.
mental estuary
low elo won't see ults
karmic grotto
Dallas: Let's get rid of Rascal, we don't need him
Also Dallas: 📱 Hello Rascal? It was just a prank bro, come back, we have better salary and food 📱
pearl stratus
Rascals clip of him bullying Note will never be forgotten.
And the desk handled it perfectly.
Just so good.
balmy wolf
That must have hurt
Hurt me at least watching the full match.
Maybe they'll find their way some day.
Doesn't look like it currently.
molten remnant
echo quest
Note,OGE,unkoe and closer should leave that bum team
echo quest
Which can be attributed to coaching. You don’t go from an elite dva on BU to a subpar one in less than two stages
Without some internal issues
limber pine
limber pine
I find it humorous the amount of people that actually believe NYXL are "trying things out"
trim shadow
new york are trying things out
but is playing mei reaper the most picekd dps duo
fuck you pavane
if they were like running hackfist or some weird shit like reaper phara or doom tracer
then id believe it
karmic grotto
@balmy wolf welp, there he goes
balmy wolf
dont get me started on the fahzix shit imma get tilted again
naive garden
lol
balmy wolf
still mad at what happened to fahzix
limber pine
given that Washington signed Ellivote and Lullsish, I doubt they're looking to sign a korean roster
willow moon
||Psst What happened to Fahzix?||
echo quest
Janus boutta get kicked out next
@willow moon got kicked out of the house
When Ark got signed
willow moon
Ye I remember that I don’t remember why
little silo
apparently they ran out of rooms
but why get rid of Fahzix now and still keep Hyeonu
limber pine
¯_(ツ)_/¯
limber pine
do we know if SR/MMR in the beta season be moved to comp season 18th?
I can't find a sourced answer
echo quest
No clue
hidden vault
They could get sado
Philly shouldn't keep sado
He's a bad tank for them
Without hotba at least
limber pine
Philly just needs more players
you can't send them all to Korea and then lose the ability to sub if needed
hasty flare
Philly need a better main tank
dreamy cave
wait Washington got rid of one of their teammates?
willow moon
Since when do I follow Spree on Twitch 
balmy wolf
if spree played genji and dash reset through all kills
does that mean he's on a killing spree
willow moon
Goodbye.
trim shadow
trail lodge
Dont mind me just telling y'all to support tier 2
raw ermine
they torture us showing pine, then don't play him.
pearl stratus
I mean they've lost this much.
Might as well keep losing and play Pine.
Bunch of idiots will shut up for five minutes at least.
hidden vault
Since hog is meta now will harblue make it to owl?
balmy wolf
Not until he actually gets good on dva
dusk sphinx
Phillie is lacking atm in general
hidden vault
He's like the opposite of coolmatt lmao
cedar drum
Before the season started
Hastr0 tweeted that Mickie isn't just on the team to promote the brand, but they actually plan to play him
karmic grotto
But they don't play him
cedar drum
Anybody has a link to that tweet or the Reddit thread about it
?
@karmic grotto yeah
I'm trying to find that tweet
I can't find that tweet, wondering if he deleted it
cedar drum
@hidden vault I mean that's not in his control
Seagull choose to retire
But Mickie has been on the team as a player all season
And hasn't even been subbed in for a single map
I want to find that tweet
hidden vault
I meant before he retired
There was a period
It wasn't immediate
It's still arguable I agree
cedar drum
@hidden vault Oh .
hidden vault
But 🤷
karmic grotto
Why is Mickie even in Dallas Fuel? It really makes no sense being in a team, not even a bench warmer but just dust collecting free monies
hidden vault
One thing Mickie has the pma attitude
And he is part of the EnvyUs team that won Apex season 1
But I do agree dallas doesn't need him
Cocco, chipsha seagull effect are gone
And I don't even know why dallas plays Harryhook instead of unkoe
cedar drum
@hidden vault They can have him as a coach
But they made a conscious decision to have him on as a player for S2
With no plans on playing him
forest raven
FUni out here still running goats
tawny sigil
Didn't use mickey to promote the brand, they gonna play him... well bad news folks.
season is over and they didnt play him
hidden vault
Well dallas still has 3 matches
hidden vault
And somebody find the tweet
tawny sigil
its funny that they dont want to let team sign in new player past stage 3
cause they dont want a player carrying the team
but they did that with 222 and now every power ranking is fucked
minor flame
Hastro is kinda bullshitting rn
tawny sigil
boston is now bottom tier, washington is now top 10 easy
minor flame
Mickie is just not that good
tawny sigil
cause of 222, it feels like who ever wins the grand final... won't deserve it
they will just have gotten there cause either the true contender got fucked cause of 3 stage of goats or one team got fucked cause of 222 got rolled in late
its just a fucked situation all around
balmy wolf
At least next season should be more consistent.
Justice gonna be a real threat next season.
tawny sigil
wouldn't be surprised if the grand finalist is part of 7-12 team
balmy wolf
Charge wins the whole thing mark my words
Imo the play-in tournament should have been all the teams that didn't make the top 6
trim shadow
No
tawny sigil
you cant do that
trim shadow
We dont need a 4-22 team making a run to GF
Thats basically saying
Records and stats dont mean shit
cause u sandbagged all year now heres ur shot at Playoffs
That makes no sense
tawny sigil
thats what the entire season is for
all the bottom team got a chance
they wasted it
hidden vault
Season playoff is for teams who did will in the whole season
Not the stage
That's what stage playoff is for
balmy wolf
sports legend
karmic grotto
Is he the owner now?
balmy wolf
nah theyre partnered now
hybrid helm
Playoffs are sigma patch right?
If so, I’m calling it. Brig will replace Lucio in the Orisa Mei comp (when playing with Moira) and possible even replace zen and Ana when playing baptiste
I think brig can offer more than Lucio in Orisa Mei comps
pearl stratus
Have you played PTR much?
Because Brig is softer than paper on PTR.
And she doesn't offer the movement increase that you use Lucio for, to play like Goats.
limber pine
yeah they need to revert some of the shield nerfs
she definitely has done a complete 180 in terms of playstyle
balmy wolf
@hybrid helm lucio offers 0 in orisa comps and brig still somehow offers less than that
balmy wolf
why are you playing lucio with an orisa to begin with
pearl stratus
They're running it like psuedo goats in OWL right now. It's kind of funny to watch.
Boost the Mei Reaper Hog in.
balmy wolf
oh i meant on ptr
yeah no one is playing lucio with that shit
its all baptiste + something
also people are actually playing baptiste like a main support now
balmy wolf
dictating where he can go with his imm field
pearl stratus
I just hope we don't continue to see Orisa + Sigma. I don't see it often on PTR.
But its so turtley and can fuck right off.
hybrid helm
@balmy wolf idk if you’re watching owl but Lucio is played quite a lot with Orisa there.
New brig can offer more than Lucio in that comp
balmy wolf
i meant ptr
balmy wolf
well this is the future of owl
echo quest
@balmy wolf that would be a stupid ass idea. every team outside of top 6 in playins
limber pine
I'm fine with the 6 that are getting in playins
there's really only going to be 2 teams in the bottom 8 that could do anything in this meta
and they should have done better in stages 1-3
echo quest
you guys think LAV make play ins?
atlanta just needs one win
and lav are out'
LAV have a guranteed loss to the shock'
and probably Glads as well
limber pine
if LAV can tie Chengdu in map record, they'll likely beat them in map score
pearl stratus
@hybrid helm I don't think you actually understand how the game works. New Brig does not really offer... anything.
Except decent ult charge, since she's absolute paper.
pearl stratus
Also to maximize her healing you need to maintain melee, which isn't a useful thing when you're running into Orisa/Reaper/Mei.
Then factor in the fact she heals herself for half, her shield only has 200 health which is... 2 hog right clicks realistically.
Just no.
Short answer: No
Long Answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
echo quest
brig is legit pepega tier live and ptr
pearl stratus
Live she actually had a niche purpose in an anti-dive if you paired her with a ridiculously high hps main.
PTR she's just arguably much worse.
jagged crater
did they buff her on ptr
pearl stratus
No, they changed her so she'd "better fit" into the 2-2-2 model.
Except they also demolished her survivability. Shield has 200 HP, Inspire only heals her for half of what it heals everyone else for, etc.
jagged crater
no i mean did they buff her within the ptr after her rework
trim shadow
they rolling out 222 lock in this update
midnight sage
Is the new Brig even viable now?
trim shadow
pearl stratus
@midnight sage from most ptr testing I've seen from most people/teams no.
You run a lot of Baptiste and something else that's actually useful.
trail lodge
echo quest
You guys think samito can get into owl?
trim shadow
who that
balmy wolf
With the exception of Jjonak, I don't think any ladder player will really be able to perform well
Well samito and his team just lost from entering into the gauntlet
echo quest
@balmy wolf no I meant it was his first season in contenders he did pretty well tbh. Team just got knocked out
balmy wolf
Teams will only be looking at finalists and teams at the gauntlet for OWL.
Most of the time anyway.
forest raven
Gauntlet placements were determined by showdown performances?
balmy wolf
Yes.
forest raven
Oh that's actually pog as fuck
echo quest
China lost one of theirs to Pacific
balmy wolf
Yes.
echo quest
ATL academy will get shit on
echo quest
Ez clap
trim shadow
theyres top 3 in every region for LOL world
trim shadow
top 3 and qualifiers i think
trail lodge
@echo quest No
Samito is not OWL level
@trim shadow Regions lost spots by the performance of their teams at the showdowns
China didn't lose theirs to Pacific
Pacific didn't get an extra slot
Korea did
Because the finals were all Korean Korea got 3 spots in Gauntlet when it was originally 2 and the worse 2 teams at Pac showdown was Order (Aus) and Lge (China) meant that the region those 2 teams were from lost a guantlet spot
So now Aus dosent have any whilst China only has 1
gaunt acorn
2018 champion skins incoming
pharah is one of the others
extrapolate the remaining 4
modest karma
this looks good
hidden vault
What is this champion skins?
gaunt acorn
@hidden vault london spitfire won the 2018 playoffs
hidden vault
Arhh
That's what I wanna see
But they aren't gonna use as skins for league right?
^what i would like to see in league
hidden vault
I think it would be alot cooler if they did this
pearl stratus
I like the concept of both because realistically I don't see them making London skins for the entire roster.
I could see them making it for the winning comp though.
So in Londons situation Monkey, D'va, Tracer, etc, etc.
gaunt acorn
we may not be getting 6 skins?
only the 1? winston
if so, why
gesture wasn't playoffs mvp
idk anymore
6 skins sounds more reasonable to me
tropic herald
Winston was defining for Dive so that be it
upper niche
cos noone is buying OWL tokens/skins?
gaunt acorn
people datamined it
karmic grotto
jeez
gaunt acorn
i don't like london but it's a nice skin
fiery swallow
is there pics of the gun?
sullen berry
@gaunt acorn GZ Charge skins in 2020 would be hella pog, a man can dream
sullen berry
trim shadow
Whar the fuck
queen drift
idk about that
jagged crater
that's a contenders game? the balls on that rein
echo quest
@queen drift nah they are better
hasty pilot
jagged crater
rascal moving to the NA was the cutest thing
https://clips.twitch.tv/StylishSparklingSandstormAMPEnergy
vernal obsidian
is anyone going to that nyxl nyc viewing party?
magic tiger
!help
hidden vault
Is leggo joking or what?
upper niche
@jagged crater Contenders Aus.
SDB lost all their players last year, they were a top team, now they're lucky to win a match.
balmy wolf
Watching NA west finals reminds why doomfist is such a fucking annoying character to face against.
modest karma
sombra hack gets him good though but he's really annoying yeah
balmy wolf
Yes let me win a point because I have 400 hp now and can't die basically.
willow moon
lmao
solid comet
you won't make a lot of money being a professional overwatch player
not even a enough to make a living
gaunt acorn
@solid comet who are you talking to
supple prism
how much do they make
solid comet
barely anything
gaunt acorn
overwatch league players certainly 'make a living'
solid comet
whats their yearly salary lol
gaunt acorn
the minimum salary, even for benched players, is $50,000/year
some players have contracts higher than $300,000/year
solid comet
yea but the prize pools are not good
solid comet
well i'm correct
supple prism
contenders is fucked though
gaunt acorn
$50,000/year minimum is enough to make a living
supple prism
50k is above the average
solid comet
50k is barely enough i guess
gaunt acorn
not to mention many of them don't have to pay for housing
supple prism
what are you 12
gaunt acorn
or utilities
solid comet
tf
solid comet
the thing about esports is after ur career is over ur kinda screwed
supple prism
some go streaming, some go to other teams, some go get other jobs
solid comet
actually only if ur the best then ur not
yea but how are you gonna be making money when ur 45 years old
gaunt acorn
get another job or work in management
solid comet
ok
hidden vault
Or coach
gaunt acorn
you know professional sports players have existed for well over a hundred years
supple prism
its not like they are doing porn
solid comet
yea but esports players make a lot less
supple prism
still just as much as the average person
solid comet
can u stop being rude dray
gaunt acorn
i'm not being rude at all
solid comet
ur being unecessary then
gaunt acorn
i'm replying to your claims, then you move the goalposts
solid comet
?
supple prism
your not understanding
solid comet
i am lol
gaunt acorn
in what way do you perceive i am being rude
supple prism
there are plenty of other jobs
solid comet
i'm not telling you lol
gaunt acorn
then keep it to yourself
supple prism
ok troll it is then
solid comet
no
hidden vault
I'm sure we all agree now that we can still make a living by believing a professional overwatch player
Or disagree
solid comet
u aren't part of discussion lol
balmy wolf
Someone hit a nerve.
hidden vault
I'm still welcomed to join;)
gaunt acorn
let's move on
shadow nest
Hey people, Im not really familiar with esport on a global scale, But Where do i find teams, leagues and ranking systems on a Big or lower scale. Thx
gaunt acorn
@shadow nest do you mean teams/leagues you can join yourself?
gaunt acorn
see #lf-players-na & #tournaments
shadow nest
And generally
gaunt acorn
as far as official tournaments go, 'open division' is open to players of all ranks
however it's not currently running
shadow nest
Thanks drax
supple prism
have to be high ranked for it to be worth it though
balmy wolf
meh it depends
generally spekaing yes if your avg sr is below 4400 then dont even expect to get top 32 teams
but if youre say a high masters teams it coulf help you get a taste of what higher ranked scrims are like
echo quest
which means getting stomped
balmy wolf
its an eye opener
supple prism
english please
balmy wolf
Now in a few weeks you'll see them get wrecked by all the KR teams.
karmic grotto
We will see about that
balmy wolf
Also all the NA teams going to the gauntlet are all academy teams.
balmy wolf
Not surprising.
They have the resources to develop player talent more.
Also they can have two-way players who are basically OWL players smurfing in Contenders.
dusk sphinx
Most contender teams that aren't from OWL teams are often just playing as hobby too
balmy wolf
Clockwork Vendetta was just a bunch of one-tricks seeing how far they could get.
"Clockwork Vendetta won't get past OD" - Goes 4-0 and wins OD
"Clockwork Vendetta won't get past Trials" - Only drops a single game and makes it to Contenders
"Okay but Clockwork Vendetta won't win any games" - Finishes in 2nd in standings and makes it all the way to semifinals
visual glen
wtf
karmic grotto
???
balmy wolf
death widepeepoHappy
trail lodge
@balmy wolf If CV still carried on with what they were doing in Trails they would of got rolled in Contenders
They change of no 6 stacking in GM meant they actually had to scrim and got way better because of it
limber pine
Justice
dusk sphinx
I'd say Reign
naive garden
Heart says Reign, brain says Justice
Regardless, I think it will be a very close game
dusk sphinx
It will depend I think
trail lodge
The addition of Skripa was insane as it meant Zytor the masters mercy no longer played when CV wanted to run Munkmutta on widow or Hanzo
dusk sphinx
If the Reign manage to prevent the Justice DPS to carry the entire game
Reign will win hands down
naive garden
Also depends on if Erster pops the fuck off again
dusk sphinx
And their dps are also top tier so it is possible
trail lodge
Reign don't have any widows
naive garden
Nlaer, Babybay
naive garden
They're still widow players
dusk sphinx
Well it's enough to stop most Widow carrys though
trail lodge
Who atm is looking like the best Widow in the world
dusk sphinx
Pine Kappa
trail lodge
They'll get fucked by Corey if they play widow
naive garden
Thats if Corey hard carries again
dusk sphinx
Idk if Corey gets kept busy long enough the Reign will roll over the Justice
Also Nlaer is a pretty good Widow who can keep Corey busy
trail lodge
Also best game of the week is London Vs Reign its close and its relevant to playoffs
dusk sphinx
London shouldn't be able to win that in their current state
trail lodge
Keep corey busy on widow gl with that
dusk sphinx
Also Corey is top dps atm but not unbeatable
trail lodge
Since when is Hanzo a good counter to a good widow
naive garden
I haven't seen much of his Hanzo, but his Genji play on Anubis was nuts
karmic grotto
Hanzo can counter Widow
dusk sphinx
Especially since the Reign tank and support line is MILES ahead on the Justice
trail lodge
Not when the Widow is good
This isn't just a corey thing
People like Logix or good birdring can't just be killed with hanzo
dusk sphinx
And the Reign dps aren't far behind Justices dps
naive garden
Sure they can
dusk sphinx
Idk Stratus is top tier but
dusk sphinx
Janus and Sansam are not very good
naive garden
Janus is still bad
trail lodge
Sansam hooks are amazing
dusk sphinx
Sansam is a little bit above average
But Janus is the worst tank in the league that isn't benched
naive garden
^
dusk sphinx
And their supports aren't that good either
dusk sphinx
Especially concidering the Reign have truly monsterous tanks and supports
naive garden
Fusions isn't bad
karmic grotto
3 matches, normally it's 4
trail lodge
Hes dogshit
Feeds on every hero he plays
I hate the fact that he's representing my Country
dusk sphinx
Fusions isn't very good yeah
trail lodge
Got carried by Kragie and Hafficool in S1
dusk sphinx
But imo he's better than Janus overall cause of his Winston and Rein play
naive garden
But I wouldn't say hes worse than Janus
dusk sphinx
And his Orisa is even imo
naive garden
Janus had consistently the worst stats of all the tanks in the league
karmic grotto
but that waa goats
trail lodge
Because that was in 3-3
karmic grotto
Justice wasnt made for goats
trail lodge
Its a different meta now
dusk sphinx
Point stands though, wether he's the single worst or not, Janus is still bottom 3
trail lodge
Yes
dusk sphinx
And the Reign have top tier tanks
trail lodge
But Fusions is the worst
Sansam is great on hog
Sansam is a top 5 hog player
Tell me this
When has Fusions ever played well
limber pine
SanSam's Roadhog may be the 2nd best player on DC
trail lodge
Every single DC game that gets put onto the replay I watch
limber pine
but SamSam is not
naive garden
You know who's been looking great lately? FRD
trail lodge
This is the one team I know a lot of shit about
trail lodge
Also like the mention in 3-3 Ado's brig and Corey's Zarya are the worst in OWL
Janus was feeding a lot because Corey was using bubble to early a lot and Ado was wasting repair pack
dusk sphinx
Janus still isn't doing good at all
limber pine
his Orisa is better than his Rein
dusk sphinx
Usually he's the first pick in fights and it's on Corey to carry the fights
limber pine
but tank is still the weak spot on the team
dusk sphinx
Also the Justice supports fall behind a lot to Reigns as well
And the entire playstyle of the Reign is different from teams the Justice beat before this season
trail lodge
Dogman is insanely inconsistent tho
dusk sphinx
Dogman is still one of the better Supports in the game though
trail lodge
I think Sleepy might be back for good this week anyway
limber pine
sofia
naive garden
He was just bad at Ult usage when he played Zen
trail lodge
He had Gf stuff he was doing
limber pine
GOATS is 3 stages ago
trail lodge
last stage
trail lodge
Why are you talking about Janus putting the worst stats in the league then
When it was in 3-3
dusk sphinx
Also Masaa completely outclasses Sleepy and Ark
naive garden
Masaa is actually nuts
trail lodge
I would say Massa is on Par with Ark
dusk sphinx
Masaa is one of the best supports in the league
dusk sphinx
Like on Ryujehong level
trail lodge
Feeds or Pops
trail lodge
Ok well once I finish this im going to watch me some Massa games
Gido has been average
dusk sphinx
And average vs the Reign is totally outclassed
Like an average Rein vs Super or Bumper
trail lodge
Bumper is a feeder
dusk sphinx
As Rein? As Rein he's disgustingly good
dusk sphinx
2nd best in the league
dusk sphinx
Anyways the reason why I think Reign will win is cause they're much better at punishing plays with their overaggressive style
trail lodge
If you change anyone on Titans back in 3-3 Bumper would look like one of the worst Mt's in the league
Whilst other MT's would only look slightly worse
dusk sphinx
Unlike the Titans
trail lodge
Also you just Atlanta have an Overagro style
Which is easily punished
Bumper was never great and I'm glad Shock beat them as it finally started the end of "Bumper best rein"
Only took losing vs Valiant and SHD to really see how bad he was
dusk sphinx
It also punishes easily and the Justice are making a lot of positional errors
It might just be cause they haven't been as convincing as the Reign while facing the same or lesser teams
They managed to expose the weakness of the Titans really well
But that's pretty much where it stops
trail lodge
DC is the first team they play thats been good this stage
dusk sphinx
The Spark are like best of the rest atm
trail lodge
But they still are around 14th atm
dusk sphinx
Easily top 8
trail lodge
No
Their not
The only game they've won is Chengdu
And Chengdu
Well
They are so fucking unpredictable its amazing
limber pine
The Charge are 9th in record
trail lodge
I think Charge is top tier
limber pine
and the Spark are 5th
trail lodge
Espically with that 4-0 vs NYXL with how it happened
And the insane clutch preformance that was the Seoul game
pearl stratus
Season record doesn't apply much to an asterisk season.
This season basically is useless.
trail lodge
With that
pearl stratus
Because they made a monumental game change in the middle of it.
limber pine
I don't disagree
trail lodge
Titans are the best then
limber pine
I'm just saying the Spark aren't 14th
pearl stratus
Most teams aren't.
Because its just a new form of Goats.
And most of them can't play it.
trail lodge
They are around 14th in power rankings
dusk sphinx
Power rankings are the least factual rankings you can have
trail lodge
Its not that they can't play 2-2-2 its that theres better teams than them that have been prating
2-2-2
dusk sphinx
Also the Reign swept the Eternal
dusk sphinx
Eternal have much better tanks though
trail lodge
Kinda tough when you have soon as that carry who is inconsistent himself
dusk sphinx
With Cloudy
trail lodge
EU monkey pepelaugh
pearl stratus
but people are too stupid to just acknowledge it.
pearl stratus
You mean the exact same play style that didn't change at all using high sustain heroes to push into teams with a specific ult set up?
You right.
trail lodge
Goats is 3-3 or 3-2-1
pearl stratus
Goats is a playstyle at this point.
And this meta is Goats.
You know the biggest way I can tell this?
trail lodge
2-2-2 is ball chain
pearl stratus
Because the pros still call it goats.
trail lodge
Bruh thats not goats
pearl stratus
So stop being a smooth brain.
trail lodge
Troll k dude
dusk sphinx
Goats atm is Rein Zarya comps
pearl stratus
I'm not trolling, you're just vastly uneducated on a conversation you've been spitting for half an hour.
dusk sphinx
That's the closest to Goats you get
pearl stratus
And it got old.
trail lodge
The language you're using is making me think your a troll
Acting like a massive 5head
dusk sphinx
The fact fights take like 1:30 minutes now shows this meta is very different from goats
pearl stratus
Go through your standard scrims and watch, and actually listen.
trail lodge
Happy nero are insane gamers
pearl stratus
Reaper Mei is referred to, strictly, as Goats. Because its about the play style, not the comp.
dusk sphinx
Anyways you can still play real Goat style
pearl stratus
Like Dive is a playstyle now.
dusk sphinx
With Reaper Mei Zarya Rein Lucio Ana/Moira
trail lodge
Unless your talking about the one MYKL leaked 
dusk sphinx
Fact is, the Reaper Mei combo isn't to Goat force, it's to stop halt hook or extend halt hook
pearl stratus
Oof.
trail lodge
Yeah sure dude carry on calling it goats even tough the reason why its called goats is because the team that invented 3-3 is called goats but its obviously the playstyle
pearl stratus
The Goats comp that the team invented wasn't even the Goats comp we saw in OWL.
trail lodge
B r u h
Yes I know that
But they made the comp
And thats why people called it goats
They invented 3-3
Thats why people call it goats
limber pine
The term GOATs has evolved into many more things that the original GOATS comp
trail lodge
Before 3-3 was a thing 3-2-1 was played with brig on the OT postion
dusk sphinx
I kinda want Goats back
dusk sphinx
Instead of a single player just carrying entire games
trail lodge
But it did hurt
Seeing the likes of Profit not on dps
Anyway back to where I was before the pepeaga showed up
Charge are top tier
dusk sphinx
Idk man
trail lodge
Everyone on Charge has been playing the best OW in their careers
dusk sphinx
Imo it's as much Charge being very good in this meta
As NYXL being hopeless in this meta
dusk sphinx
The Charge did lose to the Spitfire you know
dusk sphinx
Spitfire are mid tier atm imo
dusk sphinx
There's only 1 consistent top tier team atm
limber pine
NYXL are not garbage. However, they clearly don't adapt to change very well.
trail lodge
You don't get 4-0d by and only capping 1 objective across 4 maps if your good
Yeah Shock is by far the best team in OWL atm
limber pine
There's a difference in being garbage and being garbage in this stage
naive garden
^
limber pine
that's...what I said
dusk sphinx
The NYXL are too stiff to be a consistent top tier team
If someone finds a counter to them they collapse entirely
trail lodge
Their lucky they played spark when they did
Because If it was this week instead of last week they would be on course for an 0-7 stage
dusk sphinx
Look at the Reign, the Reign managed to counter them
trail lodge
Actually nvm they play Boston
dusk sphinx
And the NYXL were not able to adapt
trail lodge
NYXL are going 2-5
pearl stratus
GOATS originally was Rein-Zarya-Dva-Brig-Moira-Lucio, new goats is Orisa-Dva-Reaper-Mei-Moira-Lucio. I won't go into the playstyle similarities as others have covered that, but I wanted to point out that the comp you posted (Orisa-Roadhog-Reaper-Mei-Baptiste-Moira) is more of a Bunker (no Lucio, playing off picks and shield pressure), not new GOATS
dusk sphinx
Also the Dragons are piss poor atm
trail lodge
Bruh
pearl stratus
For people who want to argue with the fucking coach of LAV.
pearl stratus
Yes, which is why he said Baptiste and Moira.
Reading comprehension.
Sound out the words.
pearl stratus
I swear its a new kid eating a different paint every day.
limber pine
Endo play nice
trail lodge
I'm not going to believe anyone that dosen't have any socials linked in their discord
pearl stratus
But he knows so much more than Reprize.
limber pine
wut
pearl stratus
I'm not reprize. Thas a direct quote from him.
dusk sphinx
Anyways back to the real OWL talk
It's funny to me how the Dragons can't do crap anymore now they can't play triple dps anymore
pearl stratus
It's because they don't have the right combination for the new meta.
They don't have a strong Mei.
Similar to teams in the start of the year having a shit Zarya.
dusk sphinx
They literally turned into a Pharmercy otp team
limber pine
yeah this meta needs a decent mei
limber pine
"If you don't have a top Mei, you lose"
dusk sphinx
If you don't have a top tier dps in general
naive garden
At least he's a coach
pearl stratus
Mei and Zarya basically do the same thing in terms of the play style, which is why it makes sense. They both control space and frontline determine the flow of fighting.
trail lodge
Yes I'm aware
limber pine
so who's the best Mei in the League rn?
trail lodge
Rascal
limber pine
eh
dusk sphinx
Still though new Goats runs more Rein Zarya or Rein Dva not Hog Orisa
trail lodge
Rascal has always been the best Mei in the world
pearl stratus
Stratus has the overall best field control. Rascal is the most mechanically competent.
trail lodge
Hog orisa and Orisa Dva get good playtime between them
pearl stratus
The thing with Mei judgment is its not something you can view statistically.
You need to watch the game tape. It's more about the walls, etc. Which don't have a stat card.
dusk sphinx
Orisa isn't really a Goats hero in general though. I get the Reaper and Mei taking the Goat roles
pearl stratus
And Stratus walls better than Rascal, for his teams style.
trail lodge
Best mei is stellar kap
dusk sphinx
It's more of an easy call to say you're running new goats
dusk sphinx
And it's not actually new Goats, that would run Rein. Always,
pearl stratus
It's about play style, the playstyle of the comp is still the same as the 3:3 variant. That's the biggest indicator.
The game has shifted away from comps as a meta, but more a play style.
It's why Ball D'va Tracer Sombra can still be dive, when its missing half the heroes.
Because your game theory doesn't change.
dusk sphinx
It's not the same. Orisa doesn't have nearly as much push potential. Orisa just drops the shield and moves it foward slowly
That's why fights last over a minute now instead of the 15 seconds in real goats
limber pine
I mean, isn't that what Rein did?
trail lodge
That's just ball dive
pearl stratus
Orisa has push potential when played in a mirror where Rein would do nothing. Leapfrogging the bunkers between fortify is push.
pearl stratus
Kind of like running into a group and dropping a shield? Which is what Orisa D'va typically does.
dusk sphinx
And also why you never saw Goats being ran with Orisa
pearl stratus
Not Orisa hog, but Orisa D'va.
dusk sphinx
While Winston and Rein did get ran in Goats
trail lodge
Orisa is bunker
dusk sphinx
Cause they could barrel into the enemy team
pearl stratus
Full oof again.
dusk sphinx
Orisa isn't specifically bunker
trail lodge
You stand behind the sheild at a distance
It's the same playstyle as normal bunker
Especially when you play Baptise
dusk sphinx
Orisa is usually the go-to tank in any poke based comp
dusk sphinx
Although I'm Certain our favourite Dutch Scientist will take that role
dusk sphinx
Cause goddamn is that guy amazing
limber pine
I believe he's being played more in an offtank role in scrims
dusk sphinx
You'll probably want to run him as off tank yeah
dusk sphinx
Since his shield cooldown is so long to restore
But still he's a snipers hell
Widows won't be able to do anything with Sigma around
pearl stratus
Static Widows. Beyond that its amazingly easy to rotate around.
pearl stratus
And if he's spending his entire time relocating shield he's spending a lot of time not doing other things.
Which makes for a better ground fight
echo quest
At 4.6k
trail lodge
Nevix is probably on the bench just practicing Sigma
pearl stratus
Mostly because shocks bench is still better than 80% of the league.
echo quest
Nevix would be a starter on a lot of teams
dusk sphinx
Static Widows? In the OWL all Widows are Static
trail lodge
And then when playoffs happen Nevix will play and be the best Sigma in OW
And shock win 2019
dusk sphinx
Cause trick shot style play with Widow gets punished HARD
You just keep moving from spot to spot and end up doing nothing
pearl stratus
I'm more expecting Sigma to take over for D'va in new Goats because it gives another punishable group ult like Blizzard/Blossom.
dusk sphinx
While the enemy has total positional advantage
echo quest
Ngl I would be depressed if I was told I was gonna be a bench boi despite being arguably the best player on the Shock last year ( Pre Architect )
pearl stratus
The nerf to Orisa wasn't enough to impact her negatively.
So Rein is still pretty useless minus double shields.
limber pine
when Ireland and Italy were scrimming, DragonEddy was playing Sigma
limber pine
Orisa IIRC
pearl stratus
Orisa.
echo quest
Ah kk
dusk sphinx
I think teams haven't really tried to make Rein work very well in the current meta
pearl stratus
I think Rein is a pile of shit.
Who needs more support than he's worth.
And while his -30% CC was a good start
He's still too weak in a 2-2.
limber pine
what would you do to him?
dusk sphinx
I don't think so
Rein is fine, he hits much harder than Orisa. I think teams haven't found out how to play him right in the OWL in a 2/2/2
echo quest
Why would you play him when orisa is better
pearl stratus
Honestly Sprite I don't know what to do to him, but he's arguably the weakest tank in pro play for 2-2-2 because he's just so limited.
dusk sphinx
He isn't as versitle as Orisa
And that's about it
In what he does, he does it better than Orisa
pearl stratus
I mean not being versatile means your character doesn't play unless you can sustain yourself.
dusk sphinx
Hits harder, better ult, less shield uptime though
pearl stratus
I would not say Shatter is better than Bongos.
That's a -very- hard sell.
Considering currently Coalescence is being used to counter Bongos just to get it off the field.
dusk sphinx
Shatter is infinitely better than Bongo
Bongo is one of the weakest ults in the game
dusk sphinx
Most Bongos die in the 1st second most often
limber pine
again
pearl stratus
That alone should tell you something.
limber pine
not in OWL
pearl stratus
No, even in that situation.
dusk sphinx
Especially in OWL
pearl stratus
he's just pointing out HOW important it is to kill it.
Which to him means its too weak.
It's survivors dilemma.
It happened in WWII.
They would look at planes that survived attack runs and see where all the bullet holes were. And say "Look at all those hits. That's where we need to reinforce armor."
dusk sphinx
What I mean is that it's too vulnerable
pearl stratus
When in reality thats NOT where you want to reinforce the armor for it.
Because those planes all survived.
dusk sphinx
It needs too much followup
pearl stratus
You focus on the areas that -weren't- hit.
So when the entire team stops what its doing to focus down an ult in combat, you know that its the primary danger to the team.
dusk sphinx
It's pretty much a weaker Valkerie if anything
Orisa just has a very strong generic kit
Bongo is a bit like Whole Hog imo
Sometimes it works wonders
But most often it's an ult to stall out a push or to help cleanup
When a fight is already over
pearl stratus
k
dusk sphinx
Real impactful ults in this meta are Blizzard, Nano, Window and the classic support ults
hidden vault
I think widow's ult is more impactful on a higher level
What if we only give widow wallhack to her?
And not her team?
jagged crater
what patch is contenders on?
slender lance
The live one
jagged crater
but without sigma
jagged crater
hmm
slender lance
I don't keep up with contenders too much
dusk sphinx
Widows ult isn't that amazing already
And only giving Widow wallhacks probably won't change too much in the pro scene
trail lodge
Wait I had to do stuff
@dusk sphinx If power rankings don't mean much then Boston isn't the worst team in OWL atm
dusk sphinx
Appearently it does matter
Since the goats giants will be the ones going to the playoffs
trail lodge
How teams preformed stage 1-3 is irrelevant now
dusk sphinx
Even the NYXL
dusk sphinx
They still go to the playoffs
Poor Titans by the way
Having to face the Reign probably
limber pine
trail lodge
Its bawlynn
karmic grotto
who is that
limber pine
She was former Social Media Director for LAG
She's got a really good reputation around the league
hidden vault
and why isn't she with lag now?
trail lodge
She was always with DC
echo quest
No
trail lodge
Well
echo quest
She was with the glads