true but not great
#esports-discussion
scarlet geyser
feral wing
Eqo is a great hanzo
scarlet geyser
ehh
feral wing
have you ever watched him play hanzo
scarlet geyser
yeah
scarlet geyser
yeah
feral wing
then you should know he is a great hanzo
he went head to head with profit
he did quite well too
echo quest
Eqo is a great hanzo cmon bruh
feral wing
Philly would clap fusion university in anything other than goats
scarlet geyser
bro the spitfire r gonna bring back dive
tropic herald
It’s going to be bunker
echo quest
@feral wing debatable because Philly is bipolar. They nearly lost to Shanghai on two separate occasions in s1
tropic herald
No
feral wing
Yes
tropic herald
They are still inconsistent
echo quest
No
tropic herald
But consistently inconsistent
tropic herald
Or consistently bad
scarlet geyser
lol tru
echo quest
That was because they had an easy ass schedule
feral wing
this still doesnt show that they are inconsistent
echo quest
They’re ass
scarlet geyser
yeah
tropic herald
Also they gave Mayhem their first win???
scarlet geyser
can we just agree they're ass
tropic herald
Still lost
feral wing
philly wouldve won with boombox
echo quest
Mayhem had the worst main tank in the league
feral wing
What team do you root for? @tropic herald
echo quest
Combined with xepher
scarlet geyser
I wish it was back to dive
echo quest
Your point?
scarlet geyser
the league would be so much better in dive
tropic herald
Yeah and NY would win if they weren’t sandbagging same story different team
I personally am a Shanghai fan, even last year
scarlet geyser
yeah everyone is
tropic herald
I chose the team bc of the colors but stayed bc of the players
feral wing
now take stage 1 shanghai
and remove a key player
put them up against mayhem
they would lose
feral wing
if you remove a key player from a line up and put in someone who is not comfortable on that role then they will not play nearly as well
tropic herald
The difference between Shanghai and Philly is that one actually got good
feral wing
Put in someone who isnt comfortable in their role
elk isnt comfortable at off support
which was quite obvious
Philly wouldve at least gone 6-1 if not 7-0 in stage 1 if boombox had been able to play those two matches against florida and dallas
echo quest
Philly lost to the worst tankline in the league lmao
feral wing
which would put them at 14-7, inside the top 6
still ass?
also now that we are moving into a different meta with most likely bunker
possibly dive
they will definitely play a lot better
scarlet geyser
nah
tropic herald
Meta favoring wouldn’t help their uncoordinated asses
scarlet geyser
bunker is gonna run them over
feral wing
they literally made playoffs last year in that meta
they got to the finals
they clapped new york
echo quest
They’ll be good in bunker because of Eqo and Carpe
tropic herald
Carpe and Eqo will have to carry hard though
scarlet geyser
sado is gonna get run over
tropic herald
Just like last year
scarlet geyser
to many god orisa's
tropic herald
Shanghai is gonna look good in Stage 4
feral wing
nah
scarlet geyser
Vancouver is gonna tank I think
tropic herald
Philly even if they make playoffs will get knocked out fast
tropic herald
Name one team above them that they could legitimately beat
echo quest
Nah with Eqo and Carpe they can take on anyone
feral wing
above them in the standings?
tropic herald
Yeah
echo quest
Philly on their day can beat anyone
echo quest
Also lose to anyone too
tropic herald
Any team in their day can beat anyone
echo quest
Not sure about that one chief
tropic herald
Except maybe Mayhem
feral wing
seoul
hangzhou
nyxl
they clapped them last year
vancouver (depends on how they adapt)
scarlet geyser
bro Jack u ok
echo quest
Shanghai has a pretty tough schedule in stage 4
tropic herald
Except I don’t think Philly has beaten any of those teams this Season
feral wing
and this season has been goats dominated
echo quest
It was goats which they are ass at
London only won because the meta changed and they were good at it
tropic herald
And Philly wasn’t going to beat London in a mirror
feral wing
looking forward to see if shanghai can adapt or not
especially with their tough schedule
tropic herald
I have faith
scarlet geyser
Carpe isn't gonna be top widow anymore
feral wing
I dont know if I do
tropic herald
They have a really strong roster
scarlet geyser
so many players have just been practicing this entire season
feral wing
Carpe is still gonna be one of the best
scarlet geyser
yes
feral wing
Diem and Happy will be a challenge though
which is why guangzhou vs philly will be interesting
still think philly will win it though
scarlet geyser
but at the beginning he isn't gonna be able to hard carry
tropic herald
Diem and Happy id say are above Carpe for sure
feral wing
I would say possibly
tropic herald
And Shanghai will Support better than Philly
feral wing
meh
Guangzhou, Chengdu, Houston and Toronto are philly's first 4 matches
then they play paris
should be 5 easy wins, depends on if soon and shadowburn will be able to hard carry paris that hard
tropic herald
So Happy, YXL, Linkzr and Logix is the widows for Carpe to beat
feral wing
Linkzr and Logix?
scarlet geyser
u guys forget Sado is gonna get ass raped
tropic herald
Houston and Toronto
feral wing
and then he has to beat soon
he will probably do quite well
Sado wont get ''ass raped''
tropic herald
But Carpe also got raped by Diem and Diem got shutdown by Happy so
feral wing
also please dont use such language in a normal discussion, its quite odd
scarlet geyser
yeah he will
feral wing
jesus
tropic herald
Sado has a good Winston and what else?
feral wing
Carpe actually did quite well against Diem but he went out of his way to duel him
He's actually good at Orisa I believe
tropic herald
In widow games you win if your widow takes out the other widow
scarlet geyser
not if ur main tank is dead already
feral wing
Which he wont be
Sado has become the scapegoat for all philly hate but in reality hes not actually that bad
tropic herald
I haven’t seen enough of his ball or Orisa to be convinced
scarlet geyser
also can Poko play anything besides dva, same with fury, its gonna be interesting seeing dva one tricks playing hog
tropic herald
What’s there schedule?
feral wing
Guangzhou, Chengdu, Houston, Toronto, Paris, Vancouver and Seoul
Poko is a really good zarya too
tropic herald
Poko and Fury can play other off tanks, but Dva will always be good at the pro level
feral wing
^^
tropic herald
Paris and Toronto are guaranteed wins
feral wing
I personally think thats a solid 5-2 if not 6-1 or 7-0 depending on how philly adapt
Houston and Chengdu too I would say
tropic herald
Guangzhou Chengdu Houston and Seoul will have to be fought for
feral wing
Guangzhou should be a win as well but it will be the closest I believe
tropic herald
Vancouver is a loss
feral wing
idk
depends on how Vancouver play in a different meta than goats
that will be very interesting to see
tropic herald
They’ve played in dive as well
feral wing
when was that again
tropic herald
Runaway
feral wing
yeah and they were known for never really winning
scarlet geyser
true lol
tropic herald
Well I’m not saying they are amazing but they can hold their own
feral wing
Vancouver will not be as good in this new meta
but its a matter of how good they will be
tropic herald
Vancouver will likely beat them anyway
feral wing
meh
we'll just have to wait and see
week 1 will tell us a lot about how everyone stands in the new meta
scarlet geyser
Bumper is going to struggle sitting back as orisa
feral wing
^^
scarlet geyser
and I don't know is they have a good widow
feral wing
his overly aggressive playstyle will be a big disadvantage
scarlet geyser
remember pine, carpe, birdring, and soon r still in the league lol
tropic herald
His playstyle is just for rein and Winston I thought
scarlet geyser
even corey could be good
tropic herald
Pine isn’t as good as he was
feral wing
oo vancouver play some interesting games
scarlet geyser
shit and fleta
tropic herald
Pine is good but he can be inconsistent
scarlet geyser
true
feral wing
I think vancouver will lose a couple of games next stage
tropic herald
Titans are in Playoffs anyways why would they care
scarlet geyser
he doesn't play enough that's why
feral wing
alright I gotta go, cya lads, it was a nice discussion though
tropic herald
Titans have Hooreg for Widow I believe
scarlet geyser
I think corey can still beat him
tropic herald
Every team has an insane Widow it just depends on which team supports them better
tropic herald
Zach is good but he should probably put more time in Contenders
scarlet geyser
chengdou lacks one too
tropic herald
YXL is pretty good if I remember
echo quest
Pine will never play
scarlet geyser
He will
echo quest
No he won’t lmao
echo quest
He plays two heroes which Nenne plays better
pearl stratus
He's not their best widow, just their flashiest.
You actually listed a lot of meh widows right now.
You're better off watching for Diem, Happy, Corey, etc.
balmy wolf
I don't see why not put him in for games the NYXL are almost guaranteed to win; or at the very least map 4's after they 3-0 cause they're guaranteed to be up there anyway. Fan service if you will
cause Pine fans > Nenne fans
echo quest
Feelsbadman players have to be 18 to be in owl
trim shadow
@tropic herald Haksal genji Sitch everything hoorag everything
Vancouver should still@be at the top
tropic herald
Should
karmic grotto
of course 18
you think they gonna let a
NON adult live without his parents in a foreign country?
feral wing
^^
nova wadi
feral wing
i miss the carpe + shadowburn dps duo
feral wing
idk but toronto have been making moves
karmic grotto
one week :(
feral wing
maybe they wont be total garbage next stage?
upper island
Shanghai win 3-0
echo quest
@karmic grotto only in NA you have to be 18 to go pro
feral wing
toronto can still make top 12 and then playoffs
unlikely though
why do I feel like seoul will miss out on playoffs again
echo quest
Shanghai has a pretty tough schedule
feral wing
I think Shanghai, London or Philly will steal one of the top 6 spots
probably philly or london
because seoul has the same record just better differential but a tougher schedule
Philly has an extremely easy schedule
london too i believe
echo quest
Only game they will lose is titans
feral wing
even that one they might win
I personally dont think Vancouver will be top 3 good next stage and if its bunker then London are gonna shine
and as for the play in tournament
I believe shanghai and philly will make it, but valiant and houston also have a shot
but if seoul drops out of top 6 then they might be a contender for it too
next stage will be exciting
cant wait
Gladiators might drop out of top 6 too depending on how they adapt
feral wing
yeah but i dont know how well the next meta suits them
hangzhou might also drop out of top 6
both hangzhou and glads have both easy and hard matches
so medium difficulty i would say
so theres also a chance of both london and philly or london and shanghai stealing top 6 spots. A lot of those teams play each other so its all in their hands
again, those two philly losses because of boombox being sick are really mattering now. 2 wins is the only thing that kept them in the playoffs over Houston last year and it might be the reason why they might miss out this season. If they had won those 2 matches they would be 14-7 and inside the top 6 and would be almost guaranteed a playoff spot now because of their easy schedule
I do have faith that they will make it though
tropic herald
I’m excited bc there is contention this stage for both 6th and 12th overall, should make it interesting
tropic herald
Im not a Titans fan but I think they have a pretty good dps line so don’t forget that either
feral wing
to be completely honest, their dps line is good but not the best
their tank line is good but not the best
their support line is pretty damn good tho
but this team was very dominant because of the goats meta which was perfect for them because they had played it for so long in contenders. Thats why they were so dominant at the start, but you could see that dominance falling apart towards the end of stage 2 and the whole of stage 3 as other teams were catching up and learning to play around their playstyle and playing comps that they could not counter. I dont believe they will be top 3 or even top 5 good next stage. But I cant be sure until I see how they play in week 1 against Shanghai and week 3 against philly and london.
at this point its 50/50 for me on if they will be dominant or just good
pearl stratus
They've literally played every meta relatively dominant in Korean Contenders.
echo quest
^
balmy wolf
Idk people keep underestimating titans dps
echo quest
Came twice in apex
balmy wolf
They literally face against the best dive teams in the world
balmy wolf
In fact they were of the best dive teams
but even then they never won 1st place
That doesn't change the fact they took top teams to the limit
echo quest
Mouffin has outplayed note in all the scrim blocks
S4 is a lock. He’s dunked on everyone every block
severe junco
xQc is a lock, he's been easily the best MT there.
Agilities and mangachu have also been really strong
gaunt acorn
mouffin and crimzo looking good as well
balmy wolf
crimzo the man who probs will get into OWL in season 4 
echo quest
He deserves to be in owl
upper hawk
I think Mouffin needs a contract
echo quest
Never forgot whooyal isn’t in owl but xepher is
upper hawk
how old is he?
balmy wolf
mouffin is just a ladder star for now
echo quest
He’s 21
upper hawk
Gladiators Legion should sign him and bump xQc to starting role so we can see this all the time 
balmy wolf
expect xqc would never want a starting role
balmy wolf
If only he wasn't tied to streaming so much
echo quest
He makes a shit ton $$$
gaunt acorn
@echo quest as if he needs it
he's a millionaire and he lives like a homeless person
he probably spends like $100 a month or less
most of that on coke
echo quest
Debatable. Dropped 6k on a pc that he couldn’t build
gaunt acorn
i'm not saying he never spends money at all
but his monthly cost of living/lifestyle is minimal
echo quest
Smart. Save the cash for later in life
upper hawk
the pc
gaunt acorn
@trim shadow i was just saying he's not money-driven
hidden vault
Who is the streamer you are taking about?
gaunt acorn
xqc
jagged crater
im actually impressed
im glad xqc isnt money driven
he just havin fun
unlike some other big streamers out there
gaunt acorn
'having fun' 
balmy wolf
false
he is top500 level main tank
he doesn't actually tilt
he just takes his frustration out on his mic
doesn't affect his playing
hidden vault
Also why would xQc want to join owwc and give up his streaming time?
jagged crater
he prob still has the urge to play high level OW
but not dedicate it too much like it's a job (OWL)
streaming is still his addiction but high level OW is still fun in small doses
swift moth
He gets a solid amount of views after wc
Source: that’s when I started watching him, also he comments a bout it a bit
raw ermine
I remember xqc saying he misses playing in owl, and the grind. So this is similar.
sinful kestrel
the outlaws aren't a good team, their actually a pretty bad team
pearl stratus
Could be worse, could be Philly or Dallas, or Florida or Washington.
upper niche
Twitch is a better income stream for him, it's that simple.
Nearly 1.4m followers. 19k watching right now. No idea how many subs but even if it's 10% of that figure, that's $300k/month.
echo quest
XQC is dunking
upper niche
I can't watch more than 30 seconds of his stream at a time. Hell, chat is just a spamlog.
balmy wolf
Why are you focusing on chat?
echo quest
Mouffin should get picked
No clue who ezire but he’s been great all three scrim blocks
forest raven
Ezire's on Second Wind @echo quest
hidden vault
echo quest
Note,Agill and s4 is nasty
forest raven
Agil/s4 makes me nut
forest raven
Think Mouffin will get in over note? @gaunt acorn
gaunt acorn
@forest raven normally yes but tikatee is head coach (+ jayne gm)
so idk
fuel nepotism might run deep
balmy wolf
Idk, if their smart about then they'll realize the xqc + mouffin tank duo is better.
echo quest
^
balmy wolf
Then again it's fuel staff so no.
severe junco
xQc is absolutely gonna be MT for Canada. It'd be ridiculous not to happen
balmy wolf
And honestly just give some tier 2 players a chance.
gaunt acorn
tier 3
balmy wolf
That too.
balmy wolf
I think he did tho for team envy?
echo quest
Does it matter? He has talent
jagged crater
xqc + mouffin did alright considering the enemy had agil/s4/note
gaunt acorn
not really signed though -- i should have worded differently
jagged crater
think they won more rounds too?
echo quest
Akawa and Note looked disjointed
@jagged crater they crushed S4’s team on control
Got both times
balmy wolf
They won both controls 3-0 2 times.
jagged crater
rialto was the only map they got crushed
echo quest
Other teams should do these as well imo
hidden vault
At this rate they may rope karQ in as a dallas streamer
echo quest
Ez 3rd place
hidden vault
There's still finland
echo quest
China Numba two
gaunt acorn
@hidden vault karq is already signed with defiant though
forest raven
SK's D team would still win the world cup
gaunt acorn
shut up hater
forest raven
They hate me because I speak the truth
echo quest
He’s not lying
jagged crater
has canada made it 2nd place all 3 world cups so far?
sullen berry
Careful, that E team probably has Gido and janus
sullen berry
I can't believe well come back to 2017 pool of world cup
Country representation
hidden vault
@gaunt acorn oh rights my bad
they can swap
jagged crater
Canada had poke for 2016 lmao
sullen berry
😭
forest raven
So proud
sullen berry
It's been too long since a full NZ team was on the stage
forest raven
Full held by SK on Eich by nano symm and torb
forest raven
That grav made Zunba known
sullen berry
Remember zunba and the mangachu hammer
That wasn't easy back then
I know you have a kill feed screenshot dray
gaunt acorn
mangachu hammer was 2017
sullen berry
Dream meme team
forest raven
2016 was when SK voted for a real team and every other country voted for their favourite personalities
sullen berry
🤔 Can't say I remember 2016 team too well
jagged crater
russia was pretty beast until they got destroyed by SK
balmy wolf
When SK didn't drop a map in 2016 WC
gaunt acorn
lunatic-hai power
sullen berry
Haha remember when team liquid players were interested?
jagged crater
2016 most lopsided for SK because they were the only team that tried hard
forest raven
SK only dropped 4 maps in 2017 world cup
hidden vault
Anyone has the clips
jagged crater
ster was the only questionable pick for USA
balmy wolf
Apparently team US didn't practice that much.
jagged crater
otherwise they had no synergy even tho their players were decent
jagged crater
USA had 5 good players, but they didnt try at all so they went out early
gaunt acorn
jakerat got rolled
sullen berry
SK don't mess with their food now when it comes to Finland 🇫🇮
jagged crater
think USA's strongest was 2017?
sullen berry
Fragi Taimou Linkzr biggoose shaz...
jagged crater
when jake showed off his soldier and junk
hidden vault
What do you mean by drop maps?
forest raven
Lost maps
hidden vault
Did not lose any maps?
forest raven
SK lost 0 maps last year in the world cup ye
sullen berry
None
hidden vault
Really?
sullen berry
Nothing
forest raven
SK tied 2 against UK actually
jagged crater
USA 2017 was good
sullen berry
Peak of GOATs vs SK
jagged crater
USA 2018 was overconfident
what you think USA gonna be this year
not gonna be goats anymore so sinatraa is questionable
jagged crater
DPS you got choice between: corey, danteh, hydration, jake, ksf, stratus, zachareee, babybay, blase, nero, sinatraa
which 2 you pick?
jagged crater
if widow is super meta, you got corey vs ksf vs babybay
canada scrims had a chunky amount of widow and hanzo
danteh is the strongest sombra, also has tracer and projectile in his hero pool
hidden vault
Can't danteh widow?
jagged crater
not what he's known for
picked it a few times but nothing special compared to other OWL widows
more known for projectile than hitscan
balmy wolf
Does danteh play hanzo?
jagged crater
yea
balmy wolf
If were going for good hitscan, then either ksf or corey
jagged crater
tho i think jake played more hanzo than danteh
on outlaws at least, danteh was mostly the sombra
upper niche
lol, Uber: "And this looks like Bren vs Babybay... you know which one Corey was".
trim shadow
@jagged crater corey n danteh
umbral iron
rare sonnet
I think for USA you just take Ksf/Blasé/Nero. Corey could replace one of them if he is the clear choice for widow.
empty pebble
Isn't OWWC like every year it's South Korea who takes the trophy home
hidden vault
Yes
And they will this year
But it's much more fun to predict who are the other seeds
balmy wolf
@severe junco saving that one
echo quest
Mouffin is pog but he needs to work on his coms
night tusk
Sk did deserve it each year aswell
But damn sk vs usa 2017 was so much fun to watch
Regular matches will be boring.. i hope i’m wrong with this
But wonder how france will do now with a real main support 
Instead of winz
little silo
do you know how much iq that man needed to tweet on the payload
rare sonnet
UK vs SK is the most hyped I’ve ever been for OW
I hope another team puts up an unexpected challenge
I can see Denmark surprising people
rare sonnet
How could I forget
If Fragi jumped to Carpe instead of to the health pack he might have been booped far enough not to touch point
But UK was at Blizzcon so more hype
echo quest
Honestly you can only beat SK during day 1
Last year after day 1 they rolled everyone
karmic grotto
Who was previous dva player in Envy?
echo quest
Ellivote
jagged crater
corey in the house
vagrant niche
anybody else thinks Gods is pretty funny guy?
echo quest
Twitter
Having trials during the season is dumb as hell
2–2-2 role is good for owl
Gives more job security to the players
ember pollen
OK guys listen what if Blizzard actually gave a shit about the players ?
trim shadow
Wed have content out the ass
And heros galore
So we wouldnt have one meta dominating another
pearl stratus
Things you say when you're a moron for $500.
One meta will always dominate, doesn't matter if you have 200 heroes.
There's always a best.\
tropic herald
Ok guys what if the people who worked for Blizzard worked their asses off just for some gamers, oh wait they do. Shut up they are doing work for you
trim shadow
Worked there asses off to recycle the same Pve event
Mediorce skins
Outside of gen 1 skins
And Buffs that wreck lower half of ladder
Like moira is now MS cause Your stun?
dont mean shit
Well MS in lower ladder
gaunt acorn
@trim shadow i think working for a year on redoing the entire competitive system & role lock is more important than a pve event or skins
trim shadow
It is since Role lock was teased a good
7-8 months ago
In stylosa interview
But im just stating how i feel about blizzard even if most of the resources were pushed toward Role lock
And making sure it flows
gaunt acorn
and the moira change was the 1 bad thing in a patch with 20 good things
pearl stratus
Man if only someone had communicated that they weren't planning on working on PvE events.
That'd be genius.
Then people could listen.
And not be complete and utter morons who talk about the game when they literally know nothing about it like a useless waste of oxygen.
That'd be A+.
So many people don't even have broken clock syndrome with this game. They're not even right twice a day like a broken clock. They're just always wrong.
Usually ATL fans too.
trim shadow
I mean the brig rework is debtable
Lowering her shield health
And then making her more healer like
Sure it gives her a foot in a new meta
But shell still drop in play time
fathom wasp
upper niche
"My shields about to break" after one DVa pellet.
jagged crater
i know this aint OW esports related, but incontrol passed away
fuck man i used to watch sc2
very reminiscent of hulk passing away. Too damn young, only 33 years old
hidden vault
upper niche
ahahah that's brilliant.
upper niche
This is funnier the more times I hear it. https://clips.twitch.tv/IcyAcceptableBurritoSmoocherZ
empty pebble
Ok I think this should've been moved to another channel alr but I have to say that the devs do care about us, they are working on improvements to the game and new additions to the franchise (according to insiders and what JAB has said about the company having big plans for this franchise). But then again, not everyone would bother to read such articles or hear about them.
forest raven
Yeah nah yeah nah yeah mate @upper niche
empty pebble
Anyways moving on, I am looking forward for 2-2-2 in OWL
hidden vault
They say nenne is the hitscan of libero, is this true?
What heroes can he play other then zarya
Widow tracer?
balmy wolf
Apparently, and I say apparently cause I’ve never seen it, Everything Pine plays but more “consistent”
tawny sigil
AND DEY SAY, nenne is bad at graving
balmy wolf
He plays tracer but if you ask me not at all on the level of sbb
hidden vault
I think that was a risky grav, but one with a fair risk
I think people should just forget about that
I guess widely known sbb is better but with a lesser hero pool
balmy wolf
If the Rialto one wasnt the only instance then maybe ppl would forget it but it isn’t the only one. He’s done it multiple times on multiple maps during the more dire of circumstances.
balmy wolf
It’s just the Rialto map is the first instance of it I believe and during a semi final stage play off
No
At least not without it being like a team in it.
Or not that I’m aware of
hidden vault
I think every other grav is trying to redeem his rialto mistake
balmy wolf
I dont think thats what it is
The way he words it in interviews is he takes risks that are super massive like the rialto one
However these risks are huge like game winning or losing
And clearly nenne should not be a gambling man
hidden vault
Oh yes clearly he shouldn't
Liquidpedia says his signature heroes are tracer widowmaker mcree zarya
balmy wolf
Everything pine plays but more
Tracer he hasnt looked hot in whenever nyxl did decide to run triple dps
Or like not impactful anyway
hidden vault
Can't pine tracer widow and mcree too?
balmy wolf
I don’t think I’ve seen his widow that wasnt like all stars widow duel
Pine does widow and mccree
But he’s not consistent. He pops off and is astoundingly good like his 4-6K on junkertown against london spitfire
hidden vault
Only once
empty pebble
Libero also?
balmy wolf
His other big play was early on in OWL was on illios well as McCree where he was just popping heads like a mad man
empty pebble
I mean, doesn't he play widow too
balmy wolf
Basically all the dps on NYXL play widow
empty pebble
Woah
hidden vault
Only 1 of them is good lol
balmy wolf
Libero has the widest hero pool in NYXL hence why he is always in
severe junco
i mean, who on NYXL can't play Widow
balmy wolf
Their tanks and maybe supports
Flower plays widow
Pine plays widow
SBB play widow
And nenne plays widow
hidden vault
Libero plays widow lol
balmy wolf
And libero yes
Really for the amount of dps they have
They should have most dps covered but it mainly falls to libero to do it but he was in brig jail
hidden vault
I assume for stage 4 nenne + libero should cover everyone?
hidden vault
Nenne can't sombra?
balmy wolf
His sombra wasnt on the tier of good but granted he was also their zarya so that was a big yikes
And SBB sombra is just bad. Plain and simple
So not a high bar
hidden vault
So who is gonna start for nyxl? Libero Sbb or Libero Nenne?
balmy wolf
Libero with whoever they want
Since apparently besides 222 locke theyre not playing on any new patch
I personally dont mind who they play but I suspect bunker
Cause keep in mind map and comp
I mean comp as in team composition so depending on the strat but it looks like it will only be nenne since thats what they wanna be doing I guess
I’d love to see pine or sbb play the map 4’s so they get some play time and fanservice
When theyre like 3-0 I mean
hidden vault
What about flow3r?
balmy wolf
I havent seen much of him to really grow to like him yet
sullen berry
Dope
hidden vault
So pine is better then flow3r?
sullen berry
If this is the same amount of history you can have with just nyxl players, imagine literally any other team at the bottom
balmy wolf
Flower was an addition this year I believe
But the meta stayed the same for 2-3 stages so I dont recall him getting play time
sullen berry
He turned 18 last year
Cutoff date for new players meant he could only join at the start of season 2
Is pine better than flower...?
I think their hero pools, individual playstyle are similar enough
balmy wolf
From what I understand, NYXL is a reactionary defensive team but Flower is an aggressive dps apparently
sullen berry
So it was much needed for the founding team
jjonak was your entire strategy last season
Because he could maintain aggressive support play
With all the resources almost magnetically pulled towards him and Mano
Flow3r and Pine play a fair bit of soldier, Flow3r being more aggro of the two
Mei too in their career. Nothing to write home about when you have Libero to balance check in
balmy wolf
Janus is on Washington
And I’m pretty sure with his performance is gonna be out of the league by season 3
hidden vault
I meant keep Janus then:p
hidden vault
Then sell flow3r to Washington
balmy wolf
I believe he is one of the worst main tanks in the league. The only others that come to mind are Swon and Yakpung
hidden vault
Then why did lw blue pick him up in the 1st place?
balmy wolf
They needed a main tank and ladder can be deceiving. There is a reason why Mano is renowned as one of the best main tanks in the league and why Janus is let go. Plus players can improve or worsen or stagnate. Janus has worsened or stagnated. Same with Fate and why he was traded to Florida
pearl stratus
It's not that Janus is inherently bad, he's just counter to how NYXL plays. He's an aggressive main tank who needs an aggressive team to back him up. Picking up a support like Ark means that Washington will never get to that type of play. My contention would be if you had gotten him a good coach and the right set up he'd honestly be fine - but he'd need an all Korean roster, good coaching and a support line more like Twilight and Slime, than Sleepy and Ark, or like Anamo and Jjonak.
We've never seen him with a proper team set up for his style.
Look at someone like Fissure, he was very similar and often looked like feast or famine especially on Seoul.
In fact on Seoul I'd say most of the time Fissure looked downright bad - because he played a style that didn't work for RHJ/Tobi unless RHJ was hardstuck on Ana (which didn't work when they were trying 3:3). But it wasn't that Fissure was a bad tank.
Styles matter.
hidden vault
What about flow3r then? Is he too agressive for nyxl?
pearl stratus
No, he's just not good.
Fl0w3r is like Pine. People latched onto a singular event and projected it out for years.
When people get all excited for Fl0w3r they're getting excited for 2017 Apex.
That's two years ago, and lots of injuries to fingers/wrists.
When they get excited for Pine that was only ever on Ilios.
Fl0w3r by no fault of his own got overhyped and overly high expectations because people can't divorce those facts
hidden vault
I guess
Then Washington should never have picked Janus or Ark
The 2 new tanks also came as a suprise pick up for Washington
sweet stag
honestly
pine should be dropped and be picked up by another team that will give him play time
hes practically useless
when they have both nenne and flow3r both are insane at widow
and they can be flex
so thers no reason to play pine
hidden vault
No teams would want pine
hidden vault
Jersey seller?
sweet stag
pine NEEDS a new team
same with sayaplayer
hes too talented to be
on florida
sfs or titans both need a good widow player
hidden vault
Sfs you have striker and titans have stitch
balmy wolf
Stitch yea I dont see needing replacing
We saw Striker’s widow twice. Stage 1 on busan and stage 3 finals
Both instances were not very impressive
pearl stratus
I would still never replace him with Pine
That'd be a waste of a roster slot.
Also we sadly only got to see one map of his Widow with high nerves in Stage 3. Not indicative of a write off.
Unless you plan to also write off Carpe after his abysmal attempt to play Widow against Shanghai that lost them their playoff spot.
Striker lost a map (and still did statistically not horrible) whereas Carpe threw an entire series.
balmy wolf
And what are the chances do you think we’ll see it ever again?
Striker on roster to play widow
balmy wolf
And if he sucks all of stage 4 would then be a fair time to say “yea he’s not impressive at widow”
pearl stratus
Yeah, that would be fair. But one map with nerves isn't a fair assessment.
balmy wolf
I’ll give that to you
pearl stratus
Especially since he didn't do all that badly, especially compared to other "top" widows we've seen.
Realistically we only had two widow players in Stages 1-3, Diem and Happy.
No other teams made attempts to play it.
karmic grotto
I believe we will have another teaser about Sigma, two hours from now on
balmy wolf
I love Happy but statistics show that he was only 6th or 7th widow of this stage
forest crown
shanghai best team
karmic grotto
I'd expect some new teaser? Are they saving it for an hour and 30 minutes from now on?
naive garden
Im gonna say no teaser today, teaser tomorrow, and reveal on thursday
little silo
Blizzard like Tuesdays though
trim shadow
dapper lantern
balmy wolf
I’m curious
Mainly cause 222 lock shifts a lot of team’s power rankings up and down
Shock and Titans down cause now they have to actually play with everyone else instead of just mastering the one comp that they dominated in for two to three stages
trim shadow
Titans and shock are up
Titan adaptes fast to the 3-2-1
Itll probably take a game and some@practice and theyll be on top of 222
balmy wolf
I think thats a lot of faith. Every other team did poorly cause they couldn’t do goats well. I’m not saying they wont be number 1 but I’m saying they’ll now have actual competition for it now
pearl stratus
Why do so many people, who have a distinct lack of game knowledge, discount a team thats literally played through three years.
In every meta.
trim shadow
Haksal=SDB on genji
nova wadi
so
balmy wolf
I’m not discounting them, I’m just saying teams will now have a fair shot now. Titans and shock were undisputed kings of goats and with a meta shift where every team will have to adjust, it will be more interesting. Not saying titans wont adjust, I’m saying it will be more competition in an era where they arent undisputedly gods at the main comp
karmic grotto
YES
trim shadow
even in a 222
only about 3-5 teams can dance with the titans
shock spark new york Valiant and maybe philly
balmy wolf
HERO TRAILER BOIS AND GIRLS
trim shadow
holy shit that trailer is a guilt trip
peak sequoia
carpe is a really good widowmaker because he practices on minecraft bow mechanics
nova wadi
the league pics stuff is actually pretty Zzz seeing the countries that are eligible for it
pearl stratus
Not Blizz's fault some countries are garbage.
Anytime you see country restriction like that its because the country doesn't allow it due to some form of gambling law, etc.
I mean shit, I think Canada still has to do a math problem to get league tokens.
Which shifts it from gambling for league tokens to a skill test.
trim shadow
i would think none of the european countries would even care to allow gambling
pearl stratus
Most don't. Belgium for instance has their anti-lootbox laws and all that gambling stuff. So they'll basically never be eligible for stuff like this because its so strict.
echo quest
Why do people Think Vancouver can’t play Dps lmao. They came 2nd twice in apex.
Titans are much better than they were back then
feral wing
meh
echo quest
Every position but Dps has been upgraded lol
feral wing
a silver player is still an improvement over a bronze..
also its not just 2-2-2, its most likely gonna be pretty bunker based, bunker comps are very slow paced and bases itself on halt and hook picks etc etc, and many people believe that Vancouver will not be very good at comps like that
echo quest
Why?
feral wing
more specifically bumper is a big question mark for many people atm
feral wing
because they are a very aggressive fast paced team based on and because of bumper's over-aggressive main tank play which often gets punished and is the reason for a lot of their flaws
philly and paris @pine loom
but both are disappointing me
pepehands
pine loom
nice @feral wing
feral wing
its not like bumper can continue with his aggressive play in the same way in a bunker oriented meta
upper hawk
feral wing
also they were so dominant at the start of the season because of their previous practice at goats, teams started catching up and learning to play around it towards the end here which is why we saw them lose more games either because they simply got outplayed at goats or because they couldn't adapt to playing against a different composition like sombra goats or shanghai's signature comp
pine loom
They can breeze past games
feral wing
not in the last three stages, maybe next stage tho because of the meta
pine loom
mhm
echo quest
@feral wing by losing games you mean their first loss and still having the second best map differential only two less NYXL who had an easy schedule?
feral wing
their first loss and a loss in the second stage finals and a loss in stage 3's semi finals
which is more than having a 100% win record in the first stage
that shows their dominance fading
at least thats how i see it
echo quest
Debatable
feral wing
first stage: no losses and stage champions
second stage: no losses except for losing to Shock 4-2 in the stage finals
third stage: first loss 3-1 against the valiant and an early exit from the stage playoffs in the semi finals + the lowest map differential they have had so far
i would say, based off that, that they were a lot more dominant at the start of the season than towards the end here
but if you can prove otherwise, i am open to have my mind changed
pearl stratus
I'm more worried about the teams that have nothing left to play for. Washington/Florida etc.
Who could go perfect stage, no maps dropped, and still wouldn't mean shit.
tropic herald
That’s what they get for sucking the other 3 stages
limber pine
Players are playing for a contract next season.
feral wing
^^
tbh washington's roster has potential. Sleepy and Ark is a great support line
Ado is obviously also pretty good
pearl stratus
Ark is still going to be a major issue.
feral wing
how?
pearl stratus
You can't have an aggressive main tank with a defensive main support.
Ark plays like a pussy, 190%.
feral wing
would rather have ark on my roster than janus
pearl stratus
So they need to find a mid ground.
I wouldn't. Tempo wins games.
I wouldn't want either, though.
To be fair.
pearl stratus
Well they already made moves for redoing their tank line, which I don't disagree with.
With that in mind bringing in Phatt wouldn't be the worst idea in the world, Luddee wouldn't have been the worst, though a little unproven.
At the time they were looking to fit a bad puzzle piece because they wanted Korean/English.
But we're also at the point now where they should be looking at their coaching.
night tusk
I wonder
Super told that they knew about 222 lock since the start of stage 3
Why would shanghai sign envy?
pearl stratus
Options and backup. Not like geguri is going to play in a pulled pork neta
night tusk
back in the old shanghai time. geguri played orisa even instead of hog. maybe because of fearless but for sure Gamsu will play the orisa in shanghai
pearl stratus
And yeah 1 to 1 envy statistically is still a better dva mechanically.
opal spruce
"pulled pork" should definitely be the name of the orisa hog meta
pearl stratus
Pulled pork, yoink and oink. Ball and chain.
tropic herald
Geguri is just a morale booster at this point every other memeber fills her roles better sadly
pearl stratus
It has many names.
night tusk
but shanghai do have a good roadhog player. so what sideshow said. if there is a map you dont need a dva. you can run him
idk is name
!roster shanghai
pearl stratus
Youngjin
night tusk
yeah
pearl stratus
Youngjin plays everything.
tropic herald
Youngjin isn’t amazing but I foresee improvements from him on Hog
pearl stratus
His hog is strong. Chois is just stronger.
tropic herald
Choi’s Hog is nuts
pearl stratus
Choi is, at visual check, the best hog in the league.
night tusk
i saw space stream yesterday
tropic herald
I thought he was a Dva one trick but I was wrong
night tusk
he is good aswell on hog
pearl stratus
I find spaces Zarya a bit lacking.
night tusk
but space could not flex to dps that good so now with 222 he can play
pearl stratus
Youngjin just flexes in all aspects which is nice.
Hog, doomfist, brig, we've even seen rein to block bumper shatters
night tusk
but I wonder. will London do good now with 222 or like soe said; will london just dissepoint us when we expect from them again
night tusk
I think some mentioned that gesture orisa is good aswell
we saw it in the finals
in the finals we already had orisa hog I just realized
pearl stratus
We saw 222 in s3 finals, and how mirror is better than counter.
Why I laugh when people are like woooooo dive.
night tusk
well teams in stage 1 lost from hunters untill they played goats instead of mirror
tropic herald
Dive mirrors are just as bad as GOATs mirrors
pearl stratus
I more mean no one attempted to dive the orisa hog bunker
It wasn't even a thought
vagrant niche
Gesture is the best Orisa player i have seen yet on the league
but we haven't seen much of the other's team on it
tropic herald
Yet
tropic herald
There could be better ones we just don’t know
opal spruce
i think Gesture and Ameng have played Orisa the most, or atleast enough to really ne the only ones
be*
pearl stratus
Smurf looked -very- practiced on her.
Smurf and Choi Orisa Hog looked infinitely better than Super + Choi.
night tusk
I think in season 1 even we saw good orisa from gamsu
tropic herald
Gamsu is a very well rounded tank player
pearl stratus
He wasn't in Season 1, which is why I like BluHAS as a coach.
tropic herald
I don’t think he has a weak tank
pearl stratus
Crusty did it too, so does RUI.
You have to have the right players for it, but development coaches are the quiet heroes.
tropic herald
Crusty was Gamsu’s coach last year too lol
pearl stratus
Yeah, for most of the season. But it was also a different environment for him and the players on that team
night tusk
what about levi ?
I know his name just because it's the same name as a anime character
jagged crater
Levi jeans
boreal thistle
when does STG4 start?
tight vault
three days
tropic herald
Thursday
hidden vault
Is runaway's coach considered developmental too?
echo quest
Never forget Haksal managed to turn everyone against Luffy in 2017 lol
tawny sigil
now everyone is on the luffy train
luffy and kariv on ana, we need that for a 1v1
ana 1v1 might be more interest then widow 1v1, always a chance to clutch come back on ana
echo quest
Basically on the Korean ladder their is something called myulmangjun which means pros or streamers playing against each other with teams composed by themselves. Luffy Asked Haksal to do one of these for the second ranked spot. ( Number one was not possible because of Evermore with 5k) loser would give up their second ranked spot. Haksal didn’t want to do but it is frowned upon refusing these cuz Korea. Haksal didn’t know many ladder players so he basically had a team made up of all Dps players. Unlike Luffy who basically high top 500s backing him up. Haksal knowing that his team would get decimated and all the pressure from his fans he broke down on stream. Luffy was basically whitch hunted lol
The thing was completely blown out of proportion
Luffy didn’t help saying if he refused he’ll take it forcefully by stream sniping him.
echo quest
He’s not a jerk just a kid
tawny sigil
kids are jerk what are you on about
jagged crater
could've been a nice kid
jagged crater
now before we go on a witchunt on haksal specifically, lets just say bunch of pros were also kids not too long ago and might've had some toxic moments themselves
young age + high ego is a toxic combination
tawny sigil
Toxicity prevails!
i lost faith in people's ability to detect true toxicity.
someone called me toxic and started to lecture me for real when i said the enemy team was total garbage
its the enemy team, its normal to trash talk the enemy
its part of the mind game
people call others toxic constantly over pointing stuff out.
removing you from your "Safe Space" is not being toxic, that's just you being a GenZ kid
over protected
hidden vault
I still don't quite understand the situation
So luffy got 2nd?
And refused what? To play the myulmangjun?
tawny sigil
like thinking that people that boost should go to prison and throw away the key
echo quest
Some players on Xepher’s ex team felt so strongly that geguri that if she wasn’t cheating they would apologize and quit pro overwatch
echo quest
No clue why Xepher gets hate about it tho. He only said that she could potentially be cheating. He never threatened her
forest raven
O2 Blast 