Nice ana takes a lot of skill and great positioning
#esports-discussion
upper hawk
balmy wolf
It's weird...
Cause like
I did nothing but play ana for like 2-3 stages
seasons*
and now I have enough game sense to play hammond, tracer, and mei
Remember when ana did 80 damage?
remember when nano healed 300 hp
and gave speed?
balmy wolf
that speed buff was awesome
Hammond is the Tracer of tanks
but my god was it hard to counter
tawny sigil
no
balmy wolf
mhmm
upper hawk
Hes super annoying to fight against sometimes
balmy wolf
I don't think you get how hammond is supposed to be played
upper hawk
because of the shield mostly
upper hawk
As dva i have to just boost in and blast missles and primary to chunk him down and let someone else finish it
balmy wolf
He disrupts and sets up and makes the enemy waste resources while hoping to god his team is killing shit and peacing out
But foreal tho
Role lock has now forced OWL to be a forced mirror match ups like goats except now it's bunker with likely double sniper
Brig and Hammond are dead at the pro scene
Along with... God how many other dps
At least my ranked games will be somewhat better. Somewhat
tawny sigil
so uh, who ever posted that 2-2-2 confirm, where the hell did you get that
tawny sigil
its neither on twitter or the website
upper hawk
tawny sigil
they removed it?
tawny sigil
OWL DID AN OOPSIE
balmy wolf
ppl screenshotted the fuck out of it
They also said it would be in the actual ladder around the same time as the announcement
balmy wolf
I don't think anyone is gonna get fired over this
upper hawk
Nah its not that big of a deal
balmy wolf
It was rumored super heavily and fissure blatantly stated it was going to be a thing
tawny sigil
yeah they already fired everyone 6 months ago
jagged crater
god i cant wait to see a support player play brig
gaunt acorn
@jagged crater you likely won't see brig at all
balmy wolf
They're gonna go dps moira is likely what you'll be seeing
gaunt acorn
she isn't being rebalanced in time, that patch is presumably coming at a later date
therefore nobody will play her as she'd suck as a 2nd healer
balmy wolf
Yo Dray, scroll up, some dude was being a real degenerate here
Goes by the name Chill Derrick
gaunt acorn
and i banned him, so
jagged crater
i get to play dps again woo
balmy wolf
who was not chill
Cool
thanks fam
Didn't they say next season the teams were gonna be playing on a ptr patch?
gaunt acorn
no
balmy wolf
no?
gaunt acorn
it said they'd play on the live patch ~2 weeks after it goes live
jagged crater
teams dont need a ptr
they can just custom game it
you can custom game 2-2-2 right now
upper niche
I think I read them aiming for a patch every 6ish weeks.
jagged crater
lol @ soe saying support might play brig
balmy wolf
gonna be interesting to see how they rework brig
upper hawk
sits down to play finally 1gb dl flips table
jagged crater
what could they do, make her less tanky?, more healy?
balmy wolf
You have to make her more healy but likely remove the armor and give more consistent heals like a zen or a mercy
cause ppl hate how much brig hurts
gaunt acorn
they said, among other heroes, brigitte and roadhog will be rebalanced for 2-2-2
upper hawk
Could be a resurgence of mercy
balmy wolf
I mean yea duh
upper hawk
Since theres less hp to heal
upper niche
I mean think about it, they introduced a hero that could pretty much single-handedly kill two of the most-picked heros in what... 3 shots?
upper niche
I have no porblem with Brig being able to completely neutralise Tracer or Genji - but it should have required teamwork to do. By all means, allow her to neutralise their movement - but require a teammate help confirm the kill.
balmy wolf
well zen and mercy is like butter and toast
damage boost and discord is insane
it is but it just takes one lucky hook shot and then bam she dead and you lost basically almost all your heals
jagged crater
if double sniper is as crazy as it seems, then mercy would be the support to play
upper hawk
one of the canadian tryout squads yesterday was running double sniper
balmy wolf
Let me put it this way, Mercy is the support you pick for double sniper
Bap is the support you pick alongside mercy for bastion
Zen is what you play if you're new york
Jjonak counts as his own DPS player so it's fine
At least new york can run triple dps
bastion probs gonna have to be look at in the future
upper hawk
I wish the gladiators could say that. Shaz and biggoose clutch out so may fight wins just by themselves sometimes
But offensively, meh
jagged crater
sbb giving jake props for being good at doom and genji
i miss the sbb/jake bromance
balmy wolf
is jake a good genji?
gaunt acorn
jagged crater
hmmmm he played it on ladder a lot
balmy wolf
cause I genuinely don't recall him playing anything other than pharah
and junk
ehhhhh
jagged crater
XDD
balmy wolf
and occasionally hanzo
gaunt acorn
@balmy wolf remember they signed arhan
balmy wolf
maybe in ladder hes good
cause the coach and him were friends and he's basically just a drain on the houston resources
jagged crater
why does sbb always sound so sarcastic when he compliments jake LO
jagged crater
completely forgot he existed
balmy wolf
dude just seems like a good guy
upper hawk
Im just very happy players will be in the roles they should be instead of filling spots for goats
balmy wolf
I don't think he'll be played tho
wonder if we'll see pine in bunker meta, but nenne will probs stay for the widow spot
Pine might see some action over nenne. Given the McCree buff so maybe that's something
well nenne plays all the hitscan
jagged crater
2-2-2 will be fleta's meta! >:)
balmy wolf
if nenne sucks for half of stage 4, I will beg NYXL to move him out
jagged crater
nenne is like carpe but he can also play zarya
balmy wolf
So useless this stage?
Cause that's been basically Carpe this stage
well he can actually play zarya decently
balmy wolf
but with 2/2/2 it's no more zarya
jagged crater
well that's where he's like carpe
balmy wolf
we're going to bunker
balmy wolf
well nenne imo has the best rounded out hitscan pool
zarya and rein are back off the menu for probably another 8 months
when fans get bored of bunker they'll probably patch buff dive
upper hawk
Good MOAR WINSTON
jagged crater
buff brig!!!
balmy wolf
Brig will be reworked
upper hawk
Yeah her chain thing will now reach clear across the map and around corners
balmy wolf
I come from 2020. It's bunker transitioning to dive. It's a constant mirror match up with desperate teams, the new hero released is mauga who isn't used cause he's like if you mixed orisa with rein but with a shittier shield
jagged crater
they can make her less solo killer, more actual support
balmy wolf
She hasn't been a solo killer in a while. She does 135 with her combo if I remember that correctly
tawny sigil
if stage 4 has no playoff, i guess i understand why they're testing 2-2-2 on stage 4, stage 4 is basically useless
balmy wolf
she works in brawl which you're not gonna get in bunker
supple prism
brig gets straight up murdered by bastion
balmy wolf
The game should have released more main tanks
cause thats what this game needs cause the game is so heavily dictated by main tanks
especially now with 222 lock
Dive, bunker, rein zarya, with probably over half the time being double sniper
I mean what kind of tank would need to be in the game now?
jagged crater
giving them the business
balmy wolf
We would need 2 main tanks that are radically different from what we have now because that's what comps are based around typically. However that's the hard thing because I can't think of really anything you can do that is both
- Original
- Won't replace the already head maintanks of the three comps and make them fall to obscurity
jagged crater
hammond was original and a great hero
jagged crater
a non-shield tank that's main tank
balmy wolf
cause you're not gonna replace winston for him
jagged crater
he's a fluffy face tho
balmy wolf
and you're sure as hell not gonna remove dva from him in dive
upper niche
An anchor tank that handles damage dampening within an area would be awesome.
balmy wolf
That would replace Orisa
supple prism
rather she get a spread nerf
hidden vault
Lol no role sr
supple prism
...
tawny sigil
jeff said if they put role lock it would have role SR
if they dont then they just killed the game
next hero is gonna be mama chong, you guys wanted a tank
hidden vault
Jeff said it would be a guy...
tawny sigil
they better fucking reset everyone's mmr
upper niche
Oh yeah, having all those Top500 players playing with and against Bronzies would be sweet :/
forest raven
They're not gonna do an mmr reset
They're most likely going to introduce different SR ranking for each role though
tawny sigil
well in an attempt to lower queue time they're probably gonna mix ranking for different roles
such as having gold DPS with diamond supports
i just have a feeling they're gonna fuck it up like they fuck up everything they release nowaday
cedar drum
@tawny sigil Hey well, you know, it'll be just another reason for you to stop playing the game.
tawny sigil
what a pointless statement
karmic grotto
gold dps with diamond
fuck that
everyone plays in their own SR
no need for that
tawny sigil
ideally
but realistically, if match making takes as long as they claim it was gonna be
then its probably gonna be a thing
hidden vault
It would be longer for more popz roles like dps
upper niche
It won't be nearly as bad as they were claiming. For one, Jeff has a habit of exaggerating the fuck out of things when it suits their rhetoric. And two, the moment people see "oh no, long queue", a lot of those people will jump to another role, which not only takes one out of the dps queue, but gives a match to one of those in the dps queue, shortening the queue further.
It'll be a non-issue.
tawny sigil
yea i dont think it will be as big of an issue as people claim
even if dps get long queue, boohoo they've been ruining the game experience for everyone else since the start
"i paid 40$ for this game so i should be allowed to play whatever i want"
that's the main argument people use
upper niche
unfortunately role queue isn't gonna help shit. People will still create secondary/alt accounts to 'practice' heroes within the same class.
People will still switch off needed heroes out of protest; they'll still instalock snipers and refuse to communicate and/or switch...
tawny sigil
we'll see
severe junco
i mean, at least i'll know i'm dealing with 2 tanks, 2 healers and 2 DPS. some matches i was wondering "Weeell they might run quad DPS or try to be co-ordinated enough to run GOATs or might run bunker or pirate ship."
balmy wolf
Bunker and pirate will stay.
Just not the "oh this person isn't switching dps therefore I'll go on dps".
And then you get 5 dps.
tawny sigil
healer will go moira and play dps anyway
balmy wolf
At least there's a 2nd guarantee healer.
tawny sigil
or go hammond and start showing sign of brain worm desease
severe junco
I'm inclined to believe that if you're queueing for that role, you're either learning it or wanting to play it
tawny sigil
dont underestimate the need for people to say PLEASE SWITCH
"YOU SUCK AT WIDOW" well that's what he plays and he's that rank and so are you
balmy wolf
I've always wanted to play some dps, but then I'll be that 3rd or 4th dps. So role queue is nice.
forest raven
I am very excited for role q
tawny sigil
1 month to go
severe junco
yeah best bit about role q is I can talk with somebody who queued for tank and gel with them
instead of solo tanking
sullen berry
severe junco
yeah, role q comms will be different
tawny sigil
just need a button to talk to your counter part and one for the entire team
severe junco
i wouldn't mind that tbh
sometimes all i care about talking to is co-ordinating with the tank
gaunt minnow
THIS BETTER MAKE NYXL RISE UP.
Idc if the game need 222 cuz lower elo definitely needs it. But owl or higher elo is djjfjsibfjsiwnfhdiajfhisbrhf
hidden vault
Nyxl has 4 hitscans lol
gaunt minnow
Who?
tawny sigil
pine pine2 pine3 pine4
gaunt minnow
Lol.
severe junco
Pine, SBB, Nenne
Fl0w3r?
libero's projectile, so it's gotta be fl0w3r
I do think NYXL has a roster problem
5 DPS, 2 tanks and 2 supports
tawny sigil
nyxl is about to become low tier
tawny sigil
they're gonna have jjonak carry them again
severe junco
depending on how the meta goes, libero and pine legit may be the only people played in the DPS slot
tawny sigil
since we're going back to dive and shit
balmy wolf
We doing bunker
hidden vault
Nahh it's bunker
balmy wolf
Idk what u talkin about
severe junco
doesn't Dive counter bunker?
balmy wolf
Then why u believe dive when you havent seen it
balmy wolf
Not really and not always. Thats a patch thing. A well coordinated dive is hard to pull off and it does depend on patch
Cause the armor changes they did in an attempt to nerf the tanks and brig. And orisa’s damage was under that threshold so she was the one who essentially got a leg up over all the other tanks
This was like end of stage 1 and implemented stage 2 I believe
tawny sigil
problem is now they put 2-2-2 in, but we have 1 year of update that were mostly put in to try to kill goats, so now the game is a mess and they're throwing a wrench
break it now, fix it later
mentallity
balmy wolf
The game was already good tho in stage 3. If they wanted to implement this then do it in season 3 with a bunch of patch changes beforehand
hidden vault
Cause orisa wasn't buffed like last year?
balmy wolf
Orisa has had really nothing but buffs
Movement, shield placement, the armor changes made her damage go through better, and bongo ult got easier to get
severe junco
orisa's easily the best main tank for anything that requires not diving positions
tawny sigil
i swear orisa's damage is bugged, feels like she's doing 20 damage per shot now
balmy wolf
Likely what theyre gonna do is make some additional buffs and changes and likely buff dive after a stage
severe junco
nah her damage is fine. is she superchargered/nano'd/mercy boosted?
also, brig needs buffs badly
she's easily the weakest support
balmy wolf
She needs a rework
Buffing her in any aspect of her current incarnation is just gonna frustrate players more
severe junco
not really?
if you respect brig's distance she's fine
it's just that she's super weak outside of goats cause her healing's too weak
hidden vault
I won't say she is a weak support but her strength lies in her being the 3rd support
severe junco
she's a weak support
hidden vault
And she is the best peel support
balmy wolf
If you increase her damage. Ppl who meme that she is a dps will be validated.
If you increase her aoe healing you make her a better lucio
If you increase her shield thats whatever.
If you increase armor pack then you frustrate ppl cause that was a major complaint in that a massive chunk of health was restored instantaneously. I say rework her and find a way to make her anti dive without being “oppressive” to dive tanks
Plus she works mainly in two instances. When you are on defense and the enemy is playing dive. When you are rein zaryaing due to the synergy of the brawl. She does not synergize with literally any other tank
severe junco
I mean, every good support has a spare reason behind why they're good other than healing. Lucio is speed, Zen's Discord, Mercy's Mobility + Blue beam, Ana's anti-heal + nano, Bap's IF and AM
Moira's bad because she's legit just the healer for the lower ranks
balmy wolf
Yea and hers was initially “I give permanent armor and I can 1v1 basically everyone”
Now it’s just peel and burst healing and trying to sustain during a fight
severe junco
Brig's bad because she can't compete with every other support at keeping a team alive
She's legit the 3rd support
and without the ability to be the 3rd support
no dice
balmy wolf
Okay then, what buffs in her current incarnation would you give her that would make her more balanced? Cause I say rework but you clearly think otherwise
hidden vault
What's am moria lol?
severe junco
AM and moira are two different lines @hidden vault
AM refers to amplification matrix
as for brig, it depends on how severe you want to buff her
hidden vault
Oh
severe junco
i think she doesn't need a TOTAL rework, but a minor rework
balmy wolf
I am asking you as an individual not blizzard. How would YOU buff her as she is to make her more viable
To where she isnt as opressive as brigitte v.1
gaunt minnow
Triple dps wouldve been the meta after goats. Sad it's the stale 222.
They will remove 222 when theres more heroes. They should.
balmy wolf
I am for it but They won’t
A good half or so of the community has been bitching to have role lock for ages
gaunt minnow
Majority are low ranked thats why icluding me. As much as 222 is somehow good in lower ranks, I actually prefer triple dps me being a tank/supp main.
severe junco
how would I buff her? increase repair pack but also increase cooldown. Shield bash no longer stuns, instead acts like Lucio's Boop but reduces her shield HP by 100 each time she hits something. Her primary fire doesn't move people but is slightly faster with less damage and slightly more health, her shield has 750 hp instead of 500 and her Rally doesn't give temp armour, instead speed boosts everybody and grants damage vunerability to ANYBODY on the enemy team in the radius of it. 15m radius, however slightly decrease her charge rate. Whipshot remains unchanged
gaunt minnow
Shield bash not stun but boop? Wot.
I like the reduce of shield hp after shield bash tho.
severe junco
if somebody launches at you with an object at that size and speed, it definitely should launch you instead
She's charging at you really fast, which would blow you back, the force would know you off your feet
balmy wolf
So you gave her an ult that makes it impossible to take damage, you made the one part of her kit that reliably healed a longer cool down like a mercy rez, and instead of a stun you boop which still does 5 dmg, and her shield as I said before as inconsequential so buffing that I dont mind. Did you buff her primary hit speed to build ults? Cause I genuinely dont understand why else you would have that changed if the result looks the same
gaunt minnow
Brig not granting armour is an insult to her origins.
balmy wolf
Not really
severe junco
repair pack healing more but on a larger cooldown is fair trade
gaunt minnow
You shall not disrespect her character.
severe junco
it allows a short burst heal while allowing her passive to be the DoT heals
balmy wolf
I really dont think thats fair. I wouldnt mind if she had less healing on it as long as it is on a shorter cool down
Like say 80 every 2 seconds with no granting armor
balmy wolf
How would you do it cause mercy heals 50 per second
And her healing ability sucks ass
balmy wolf
How tho
severe junco
currently it's refreshed every time an enemy's hit, so I'd probably make it so that instead of being 16/s for 5s that refreshes when hit connects, to being either burst healing
or healing that heals her team more than she gets healed but cannot refresh
balmy wolf
You wanna burst heal passive as brig for her whole team? But it cannot be refreshed until after the 5 second duration?
severe junco
either burst heal OR dot heals that can only be refreshed after 5s have passed
balmy wolf
Let me get this straight so when brig hits something, she can burst heal her entire team for that 5 second duration which reset after 5 seconds if she hit something, with an ult that makes it impossible for ppl to take damage and thus a mobile immortality field, with a faster building time to build the ult, no stuns but bigger shield, and a longer shield pack burst cooldown heals
I think legit you made and ruined Winston with your build not gonna lie
And made essentially every ult in the game useless cause you gave her a better zen trans
severe junco
can
can you point to where i said invulnerability?
i never said damage invulnerability
balmy wolf
Sorry mb, what do you mean by damage vulnerability to the enemy team
severe junco
not even BEFORE I edited it to say "enemy team"
balmy wolf
You mean like a zen discord?
severe junco
exactly that
balmy wolf
So a lucio speed boost
With zen discord
With burst heals on the team
At that point why run lucio at all?
severe junco
it wouldn't be as drastic as a discord or an amped speed boost, but yeah
also, I did say "decreased charge rate"
balmy wolf
As you described her
severe junco
just because she's hitting more doesn't mean she'd be charging at the same rate
balmy wolf
She is basically a one woman goats team on her own
trim shadow
Brig cant be fixed at this point
Buff her shes to strung
Rework she gets weaker
Brig is the ultimate mistake
severe junco
and granting her the ability to RALLY her team to push forward should be the point of the ult
trim shadow
Cause sym and torb had reworks that worked
gaunt minnow
Im here watching xqc owwc2019 canada scrims
trim shadow
How can you rework brig without power creeping over other supports
balmy wolf
The only other character they reworked was mercy wasn’t it?
balmy wolf
Minor rework to hanzo for stork and scatter arrow
trim shadow
They moved her rezto abilitie and gave her wings
That was more of a change of life rework
Cause no one liked whiping a team
To seeing ur screen blow up in yellow
And there all back
And they win the fight 90% of the time
gaunt minnow
Orisa Hog is so disgusting!
gaunt minnow
Orisa's halt is cancer.
trim shadow
Shes power creeping
severe junco
i still think it should yeet you in that direction, not pull you to that spot
gaunt minnow
Orisa Hog Widow comp is a slaughter.
upper niche
What time is watchpoint showing?
severe junco
what timezone are you?
balmy wolf
Any games today?
severe junco
so when it's 9am the next day my time, it's 7pm the previous day
so, the 9am AEST is on the friday for me
it'd be the 7pm the thursday
also, Contenders Pacific is on rn
gimme a sec i'll check who's on
Far East Society vs Cyclone Coupling
Novams Esports vs Global Esports is on afterwards
FES vs GC is 2-0 FES up with the current map being Numbani
balmy wolf
so you guys heard about the role lock on blizz?
severe junco
yeah
balmy wolf
they told us about it last night idk if it became public yet
balmy wolf
^
severe junco
and as such people recorded stuff
severe junco
I'm just waiting for an entire team of flexxers to all swap seats when they're changing roles
balmy wolf
Bunker for now until fans complain then likely dive then back to rein zarya and on and on it goes
someone said that its like "positions" in a team like in irl sports
delicate junco
Guys did anybody see the rolelock Blizzards gonna put into place for the teams?
balmy wolf
We all saw
which i can understand but i still find dumb
And the league is now more predictable and boring than ever
delicate junco
Its so stupid
balmy wolf
Congratz OWL you traded goats vs goats for bunker vs bunker
yah played yourself
Stage 3 wasnt even goats
delicate junco
I mean like now the teams cant even experiment anymore if new comps work
delicate junco
I dont mind 222 but im a gold and for high lvl play this is a big restriction
severe junco
eh, it's what had to be done
balmy wolf
Its really not
delicate junco
I mean hammond triple dps is not gonna be a thing anymore
balmy wolf
They could have changed their mind after seeing stage 3
But no
Nuke the esport with role lock
severe junco
it brings it in line more with what probably what was the original intentions of the game
balmy wolf
Their intention didnt meet reality
delicate junco
Ow doesnt work only 222
balmy wolf
They had a majority of the released character as dos and expected players to play tanks and supports and dps roughly the same
severe junco
i mean
it was only when they merged defense and offense hero categories
that they realised
balmy wolf
“Defense makes no sense and harder to understand. Sym as a support didnt make sense to most of the player base” etc.. etc...
severe junco
as for 2/2/2
sure, we're restricting teams now
but it's a necessary evil
what must be done to make balancing easier.
balmy wolf
Thats the thing tho. Balancing should not be so easy that blizzard should just be able to dictate and bend meta to their whim
Blizzard should not be able to do “hmm we dont want bunker anymore. Dive this month”
It’s predictable and boring
severe junco
view it this way using an analogy from Team Fortress 2
balmy wolf
You dont want games that are boring and easily precitedb
severe junco
2/2/2 is a lot like Highlander
in highlander, 2 teams of 9 face off with 1 of every class forced out on the field at the same time
it sounds boring on paper, but is some of the most entertaining things i've ever seen because you're seeing who can play the role better.
I think 2/2/2 is good for the game's health and we might see more interesting games because of it
balmy wolf
It won’t. It might be good for the ladder’s health but not for the pro scene
severe junco
ehhhh, i'm inclined to believe it will be
balmy wolf
I’m inclined to believe if pros are all good then meta is what defines the players and the variability of them able to play the comps. Houston sucked last year cause they didnt have tracer for the meta. New york sucked this stage semifinals cause they didnt have a sombra. This has become “you either have the flavor of the month or you lose. And if you do have it, better hope it’s better than your opponents”
And I’m pretty sure every team has a widow hanzo and know how to play bastion
severe junco
If every team has every role on the field, this means it's a battle of talent then
it also means we're guaranteed to see tank, dps and healing play
which means players like mangachu and logix can play what they were signed for
DPS
balmy wolf
Yea which sucks. You dont wanna go to a game where it’s nothing but widow duels. Cause it means this. You either are able to play competitively against the enemy with a hero who can duel. Or you lose cause you cant swap to a more viable comp cause meta dictates what the pros play.
severe junco
i mean, pros can still dictate what the meta is, and will do
they just have to abide by the in-game rules
balmy wolf
“They have a god widow and we cant compete. What do we do?”
Meme: Just die I guess
Before teams could swap off to be more competitive
severe junco
it's the reason why we don't see teams stacking nothing but reins, orisas, etc
balmy wolf
Literally thats what happened stage 3 play offs
Shock got fucked first 3
Swapped off goats
Pulled 3 out of their asses
Shit was close af
Now you’re stuck in the role you play
Meaning you’re stuck in the comp you play
balmy wolf
Because you cant make intelligent plays as a team to compete. You are forced to play whatever team who is objectively better than yours. If the enemy team had a good widow you could swap to triple dps and avoid the fight entirely or go dive which isnt an option due to meta
severe junco
meaning you can still change comp
there is literally nothing stopping you from swapping comps
the difference between a d.va winston and a rein zarya is astronomic
which means we might SEE more of these micro picks
which is a good thing
balmy wolf
Meta enforces the comp
Players locked in roles means triple or quad dps are gone and goats is gone. You are stuck mirror matching. This isnt
Dive is a counter to bunker and both are even playing field. This is blizzard making bunker better than the other comps which means they will destroy the other comps. Goats would still be meta if we were playing in last year’s world cup patch
severe junco
2/2/2 means: No Goats, no Triple DPS, no Healer stacking
that's all it guaranteesw
if you're seeing 2/2/2 as bunker only, you're not seeing the bigger picture
karmic grotto
These one tricks mercys that don't go Zen or Lucio when we need defensive ult
balmy wolf
bunker isnt even... that good
Meta guarantees what teams play. Stage 1 was basically nothing but goats and by your logic “they could have swapped off”
severe junco
yes but why
balmy wolf
Hey could but they solidify their defeat more that way
severe junco
why would you swap off goats
why would you swap off what was easily the best comp
this isn't even CLOSE to goats
since Bunker isn't the universal strength
karmic grotto
?
balmy wolf
Cause the other team is objectively better than you at it and you need to pick something crazy. Thats what stage two and three was all about
as weird as it sounds, Washington Justice had the best bunker that I've seen in scrims
limber pine
no GOATS, no Triple DPS, no Healer stacking *no quad tank, *no 3-2-1, *no Mayhem 5 dps
balmy wolf
Now the options to go crazy to counter it have been significantly limitedb
severe junco
also, yeah figured as much. justice had the DPS talent to pull off bunker but just failed as GOATS
balmy wolf
not even that
severe junco
not even sure why tbh
balmy wolf
so one of the drills that people do as bunker is to purposely go through emp nano blade
severe junco
i think it's a lack of co-ordination?
balmy wolf
justice successfully survived (meaning only 1 death Max) emp nano blade 9 times in a row
and in a variety of ways too
balmy wolf
bastion going tank pre emp and burning genji, orisa fucking up his reset with a pull, mercy fucking it up with a well timed ga cancel
etc
balmy wolf
i usually get asked to help with scouting in contenders scene, most of them scrim owl
north tendon
ITS HAPPENING POGU
balmy wolf
i dont work with owl but the work i do helps me see owl 
im at 2 owl rejections
Leggo, how do you see stage 4 going
working on 3rd 
honest to god
i have no idea
severe junco
I think titans will weaken a little but still remain strong
balmy wolf
titans will revert to dive
Is that a scrim u saw or a guess cause haksal and such
the titans dive thing is a joke
runaway has been the #1 dive team for like 2 yeats
no one expected them to transition to goats so well
balmy wolf
pine locked himself up lol
north tendon
😦
balmy wolf
gotta be more consistent if you want to see more playtime
i just want more sbb tracer plays
forest raven
Surefour gonna fuck again
balmy wolf
I am expecting nothing but bunker
balmy wolf
What dps was decay a star at again
severe junco
i'm most hyped to see the defiant rotate between our DPS lineup
balmy wolf
the thing about bunker is that unlike goats it actually has solid and consistent counterplay
well unlike initial goats
severe junco
Logix, IM37, Mangachu and Ivy
vagrant niche
MR LOGIX TRACER 
north tendon
yeah same
balmy wolf
thank u mr logix
north tendon
im excited for sbb to pop off again
balmy wolf
Wasnt the finals or like stage 4 of last season nothing but bunker except for certain maps
vagrant niche
lets just hope they buff brig to deal vs tracer dominance stages as well
balmy wolf
or just general displacement like ball rolling through
severe junco
I think that bunker has enough counterplay that it won't be a guarantee every time
balmy wolf
Think Tracer has any place in the game?
vagrant niche
Brig is my favorite support, i'm pretty sad about she being super bad right now
limber pine
without major balance changes, a majority of the Heroes don't have a place in 2-2-2
north tendon
oh then yeah i understand
vagrant niche
so yeah, i'm one of the minority
north tendon
brig is hot though
balmy wolf
ok so the general consensus is that 2/2/2 is a godawful idea BUUUUUT i wont deny that it makes it eadier to balance heroee around 2/2/2
so that being said
they will now have 2/2/2 at the highest of highest levels to balance off of
vagrant niche
2/2/2 is good for pros for job security
limber pine
not for players like Rascal
forest raven
Is that really the general consensus
limber pine
or other flex players that can play all three classes
north tendon
I think it wasnt the best time but its better than being late
balmy wolf
So besides selling jerseys, what point is there to sbb or pine and how long until flower is just sold
north tendon
and yeah ladder benefits
balmy wolf
i mean if you swapped ranked to 2/2/2 youre asking for mirror matchups every game
balmy wolf
yes but now that they have it for owl, they get to see how they play and balance accordingly
severe junco
i mean, if the game's easy to balance then we might see nerfs to characters who need it
like orisa
balmy wolf
its top down balancing
which i can get behind
its one of those "i think im right about it being bad but please prove me wrong" moments
balmy wolf
i placed bronze in season 3 
trim shadow
Itis
vagrant niche
1/3 games has like a grand master or something in there
balmy wolf
i literally just wall rode and didnt do anything
vagrant niche
smurfing
trim shadow
It dies
north tendon
lol i placed like plat i think
trim shadow
Does*
severe junco
bronze is either actual good players or actual bronzes
balmy wolf
its because people in bronze genuinely dont like.. care
north tendon
yeah
balmy wolf
no grandmaster actually cares about going to bronze lol
north tendon
its yolo life
balmy wolf
if they do they get sent up like 150 sr per game
severe junco
i placed gold, hit borderline silver and then went back to mid gold
balmy wolf
and never see the same people again
vagrant niche
so will ladder get a whole fresh ranking system?
balmy wolf
in season 4 was when i took the game seriously and im usually 4.1-4.2 now
vagrant niche
a reset???
balmy wolf
this season is only a month long
vagrant niche
maybe this is my chance to make it to diamond
balmy wolf
who knows what blizz is doing
I started high gold plummeted to bronze clawed to gold bounced between gold and plat and now chilling in mid to high diamond
That border sucks
north tendon
maybe they will let you pick your current account mmr for one role?
balmy wolf
Masters and diamonds border is rough
balmy wolf
imo diamond into masters is the hardest barrier in the game
bc thats when people stop figuring new shit out
vagrant niche
i just don't understand how so many people with gold/diamond border still don't know basics concepts of the game
north tendon
i fucking agree so hard
balmy wolf
Any tips to getting through it?
vagrant niche
i think Bliz's fault for not implementing an extensive tutorial
balmy wolf
im just slowly decaying to masters now
north tendon
i think part of it is also the loss of performance
balmy wolf
the tutorial is the required 25 levels
north tendon
lots of smurfs settle in diamond
balmy wolf
what do you want blizz to tell you that you cant figure out by doing once
severe junco
if you've got the plat level border, there's a fair chance that you've played for a long time but never attempted to improve
if you're hanging around gold that is
vagrant niche
do missions like tutorials
like learn how to peel
don't trickle
ult economy and stacking
balmy wolf
you think people dont know to do that already?
balmy wolf
a vast majority of low elos know to do that they just dont do it
Ult economy is up there; learning the basics of rein and winston would be nice for the lower tiers
severe junco
if you're in gold, there's one of two reasons
north tendon
leggo what do you mean by not figuring things out in diamond, do you mean its more elusive
and whats your solution
balmy wolf
like even in the game the character will shout "i need help" or zen will say "i require assistance"
severe junco
you're mechanically gifted but have the gamsense of a rock
balmy wolf
telling people to help will change nothing, theyll still choose to not do it
Gold is not mechanically gifted
vagrant niche
neither is plat
i have decent game sense
but mechanically i lose a lot of shots and duels
i should win
severe junco
you can be mechanically gifted and be in gold
balmy wolf
Gold is just knowing how to accidentally exploit the weaknesses of everyone else. It’s why pharah dominates in the lowest tiers
vagrant niche
my only mechanically good hero is brig and pharah
and one is crap now and the other needs a good mercy
balmy wolf
@north tendon by that i mean at diamond level theres nothing "new" to learn in the game, like a lot of people didnt know brig bash can break genji deflect
from then on its just learning how to do what you know even better
north tendon
oh makes sense
balmy wolf
its a very mean and blunt way of saying it but according to any relatively pro team (yes even open division tier 3) if your average sr is below 4300 then you do not have an adequate grasp of the fundamentals of the game
north tendon
I mean I see a lot of pros movement and positioning
balmy wolf
im aware that im below that too and i agree with it
north tendon
and it makes me realize how big the gap is
severe junco
yeah, can confirm, gold here
balmy wolf
Bronze is to 4400 sr as 4400 sr is to OWL
severe junco
still learning
north tendon
its depressing because thats like saying the playerbase is just bad after all these years
balmy wolf
hell, to get from bronze to 4400 is easier than 4400 to owl
north tendon
or maybe OW is just a hard game
vagrant niche
i'm finally getting a 240hz monitor on tuesday, i hope it helps me get better mechanically
i'm honestly tired of freaking 60hz
balmy wolf
that will do almost exactly nothing
severe junco
OW is simple to pick up, hard to master
balmy wolf
unless youre at the highest of highest levels
upgrading your average periphs change nothing
unless theyre actually broken
vale pond
Periphs change almost nothing
balmy wolf
theyre supposed to be the last thing you improve lol
vale pond
a lighter mouse and a mech kb will make the greatest diff and even that is a stretch
vagrant niche
yall can say that, but tell me that while playing on 80ms ping with 60fps
i play fighting games, and i got better when i started using fightstick instead of pad as well
balmy wolf
I'm at 110 on 60 and i can hold 4200 while in med school and coaching for contenders
theres no excuses
vale pond
Lul
vagrant niche
that's cause you are mechanically gifted
severe junco
e.g. soldier is easy to pick up
vagrant niche
and you probably have other fps experience
unlike me
overwatch is the first ever fps i ever played
seriously
balmy wolf
mine too on pc
severe junco
shift to sprint, you hit e to drop a small AOE heal and right click to shoot a rocket
forest raven
Leggo how many hours do you have on ow
severe junco
also, i have had previous FPS experience
vagrant niche
i read your guide too btw, but i'm not a zen player
i can't play supports
i only like Brig
and Mercy
severe junco
I have played a fair bit of CS up to Silver Elite
vagrant niche
i prefer tanking
severe junco
and played TF2 for over a 1000 hours now
vagrant niche
than support
north tendon
@vale pond OH THERE YOU ARE BUDDY WHATS UP LOL GUESS WHAT ROLE QUEUE IS HERE
balmy wolf
uhhh im gold border 2 stars
north tendon
WHAT NOW
severe junco
albeit
forest raven
Is that like 500+ hours?
balmy wolf
think so
north tendon
also isnt 4.3 T500?
balmy wolf
id say its half comp half arcade/customs
north tendon
lmaooo dont worry man you will get used to it and love it 😛
balmy wolf
@north tendon t500 is about 4350 when it settles i think
severe junco
my TF2 hours didn't transfer over, since I played medic and engi most of the time and torb is my least favourite hero to play
vale pond
No I will hate it
balmy wolf
Wish they increased the avoid slot to 5
vale pond
Like they went too extreme too fast
north tendon
role queue= less avoid slots needed
vale pond
If it was 2-2-2 with one extra allowed each Inwould be fine
Also no it doesnt
People will be toxic regardless
They will find something else to blame for their sr
north tendon
toxicity fixes itself because the main issues are gone
balmy wolf
the one time a blizz rep listened to me when i had an idea to pitch he seemed really enthusiastic but it didnt go anywhrre
vale pond
Lmaooo
north tendon
not everything but still
balmy wolf
It doesnt thi
i said make your endorsement level the amount of avoid slots you get
and make it harder to get a higher endorsement level
vale pond
You think thats the source of ow toxicity?
north tendon
"will still be" so we cant make things better
balmy wolf
As an ana main, if I have to deal with a pharah cause my dps cant then that means i cant heal and Then I get yelled at for lack of heals
vale pond
2-2-2 wont fix it
balmy wolf
it really isnt the source of toxicity
vale pond
People are using 2-2-3 to blame for being bad
balmy wolf
Toxicity i think comes from ppl’s egos
vale pond
2-2-2
vale pond
People will tilt the same when they see zarya hog torb sym and they have to heal that mess
vale pond
That wont solve anything
balmy wolf
heres a very blunt yet no bullshit tldr on tilting at character select
vale pond
“I want this exact comp with owl level players on my team wasaasaah”
balmy wolf
if your sr doesnt begin with at least a 4, literally any team comp can work. tilting at a character select screen just goes to show you yourself dont know how the game works either
and if you complain about others tilting
that just means you dont know how mute buttons work
vale pond
I would’ve rather had a 1-1-1 min lock
balmy wolf
System finds tanks and dos and supports and hopes they play what they play
north tendon
thats fine leggo but when you have an obvious trash comp with no thought put on to it and the enemy team does the bare minimum of putting something workable (putting aside if they are better players than ours or not) dont you think that kind of shit is stupid?
balmy wolf
a soft role queue is ideal BUT imo waayyyy too difficult to implement bc then queue times will skyrocket for a majoirty of the playerbase
@north tendon quad/5 dps was in owl
penta tank was in t1
north tendon
it was but like the sucess rate....
balmy wolf
quad tank was meta
vale pond
With 2-2-2 lock bunker is going to be unstoppable
balmy wolf
everyone that improves AND is generally less toxic has a "fuck it lets try it" attitude
north tendon
well im trying my best not to tilt but imagine a close loss like that
you cant help but feel annoyed
lol
north tendon
how the hell is it my fault when my team isnt trying?
balmy wolf
(this isnt directed at you) ill never understand why people say "but im trying!!"
no one gives a shit if youre trying your best
youre expected to try your best
forest raven
The only variable you have absolute control over when playing is yourself
vale pond
^^^
north tendon
im just saying my team mentality might be different
i know trying is basic stuff
thats comp
balmy wolf
What do you plan on gaining by talking about others
Besides trying to come up with an excuse
north tendon
i get it dude you will climb eventually if you work on yourself
vale pond
Excuses are the cause for tilting about teams 99% of the time
balmy wolf
btw idk if anyone here knows me from comp/ow disc but i have a very no handholding attitude
north tendon
i just want it to be more enjoyable and less luck based
like grinding that way is horrid
vale pond
bold of you to assume Im not an idiot
balmy wolf
(if your counter is that smurfs exist thanks for proving that it's actually balanced :) )
north tendon
what if its a 1 v 12
balmy wolf
A guy on reddit once posted that if the games seem like 50/50 luck then that's 100% because you suck and actually require your other teammates to carry you
forest raven
Then a 13th player got in there somehow
balmy wolf
I wholeheartedly agree
balmy wolf
bro even the ref got in on that shit
vale pond
For every game you have that gets ruined by a throwing 5 stack you can win another 5
forest raven
I know two things about overwatch
north tendon
then yeah I guess my point is I just want more enjoyable games, yeah I can win in a shitfest of a game
but wheres the fun in that really
vale pond
a lot of it
balmy wolf
your attitude is what gets you to enjoy more
forest raven
The first thing is that I suck at it, the second thing is that I know nothing and need to learn
balmy wolf
dude i play at 110 ping on east coast mid gm
vale pond
Thats probably why I’m stuck in plat but I have fun so idc
balmy wolf
i have evil toaster and stevoo and fuey and so on and so forth
fareeha trying soldier, crosyph on roadhog
north tendon
oof lol
forest raven
Smol if you're having fun playing a video game then the right thing is happening
vale pond
And if I get frustrated I switch ganes
Games
Thats the biggest way to deal with tilt
balmy wolf
your attitude in game will improve so much more with that mentality
youll become the fusions of ranked
also theres nothing wrong with getting mad
everyone gets mad
its just taking a break and coming back later
Square faced man fusions?
north tendon
listening leggo all i wanna do is enjoy rein in peace
vale pond
At which point play another game for a bit
north tendon
im just gonna say its hard right now
balmy wolf
then play qp
forest raven
I used to get mad at other players
Now the only thing that frustrates me is me, and even that's rare
north tendon
lmao pls
vale pond
You should expand your hero pool a bit
north tendon
yes smol but i meant my fav hero
balmy wolf
main tank is the hard carry role
vale pond
Rein brig both are down there
balmy wolf
has been and will always be
Why expand your hero pool in a 222 lock if you dont already play the heroes in your main role?
forest raven
The more I play the more I realise that games are so often decided by tanks
north tendon
well im expecting to get some rein mains with 2-2-2
balmy wolf
Like I play all the heroes in the support line up
north tendon
so i guess i have to learn an offtank
balmy wolf
you can check the pinned messages from squala in #old-gameplay-advice
So for me just getting better at them is my thing
I wholeheartedly agree with them
limber pine
i'd find it hard to believe it won't be Dva 90% of the time
balmy wolf
Main Tank has and will always be the most important role in the game. If you play MT and can't rank up my dude that's on you. Also Hog and D.Va both have solid stances rn in meta
limber pine
Hog for bunker obviously
vale pond
Thats the first time I’ve seen a meta trickle into low sr
north tendon
and ah thanks
balmy wolf
also tbh (this is just what i see)
bunker isnt as strong as people make it out to be
it didnt take much time to learn ample counterplay
balmy wolf
whereas goats had 0 counterplay when that started
balmy wolf
Not atm
vale pond
Zarya is very difficult
balmy wolf
I say every other off tank is better atm than zarya
vale pond
also kind of eh now
vale pond
Blizzard needs to rework rein and brig so they can get back to a usable state without buffing goats
trim shadow
Rein is just fucked like brig
north tendon
he just said MT is on you for not climbing
limber pine
and Zarya
balmy wolf
Goats is dead
north tendon
lol
balmy wolf
Remember 222 lock
trim shadow
The main thing of rein
vale pond
222 is dumb
balmy wolf
The only place you would play goats anymore
limber pine
2-2-2 isn't dumb per se
balmy wolf
Is customs
north tendon
im just tired of all the knockbacks
north tendon
ball makes me wanna switch man
trim shadow
Ive been raving for 222 for a year now so im not mad
balmy wolf
Which like why would u do that in either
trim shadow
Brig>ball
limber pine
it just needs balance in addition to implementation
trim shadow
Only use of brig
balmy wolf
Sheidl bash does 5 dmg
north tendon
fucking sombra, doom, ball, mei
balmy wolf
How many ball gods do you know on ladder
trim shadow
Oh right sombra is a thing
Her power creep is gonna come down now that everyone isnt a ball of healing and death
north tendon
im expecting her to be looked at, good thing most people suck though
but snipers surely
balmy wolf
I dont see why anyone would play ball anymore
karmic grotto
If they want to balance 2-2-2
balmy wolf
He does a wonky dive and his best place was 3 dos
karmic grotto
Brig needs some buff
balmy wolf
Rework*
north tendon
the leak was suggesting they had plans for brig and hog
karmic grotto
To what?
north tendon
i wonder what they can do to hog
karmic grotto
She's already good, just some buff
north tendon
hope he remains fun
karmic grotto
@balmy wolf So yeah, it's as you said
balmy wolf
Literally no idea but boosting her damage and or healing output is scary. She’s like tracer balancing on a needle. Any adjustment can go scary
karmic grotto
Diamond and above is just decreasing your mistakes
north tendon
no idea
balmy wolf
Diamond is literally babysitting the other diamond players
north tendon
moira might be the hero that tilts me on select the most
balmy wolf
I will take baptiste over moira
trim shadow
Depends on who your playing
trim shadow
Bap is what us paladins player call..a heal bot