contenders schedules match OWL schedules
#esports-discussion
balmy wolf
echo quest
Plus he didn’t actually see the girls
trim shadow
i remember hearing shanghai did a good 8 hours of scrimms
echo quest
More
trim shadow
so if there scrimming from 10 to 8 who has the energy togo see a girl?
unless she came to his apartment or something
thats like....the only explanation.
does sbb's wife live in the americas or back in korea?
mistakes
balmy wolf
oh yeah
echo quest
@trim shadow the thing is he never saw the girls on irl
In*
Although he offered the 16 year old a plane ticket to visit him
trim shadow
well yea
i had to ask for permission to leave the house when i was 14
and i had to like to give my location and who i was going to see
or going with
most times i didnt bother
no way in gods hell a parent is gonna let a 14 year old fly
without supervision
im not a parent but the thought is a heart attack in its own right
balmy wolf
gods 
tawny sigil
you'd be surprised
trim shadow
10-15 is like a precious age
uk height of puberty
and like
10-15 year olds puberty be turning them into actual women
balmy wolf
where tf is this convo going
trim shadow
hits reverse
balmy wolf
benjamin button
tawny sigil
this convo has been going for literaly 1 hour and no one cares or has actual answer
trim shadow
eh im not gonna say that
cause alot of teenager social media goes unmonitored
parents dont even know the half of what there kids will do on social media
which is why catfishing was a thing
im just trying to say think about it hard before you slam someone face first into the dirt
we dont need anymore jayne's in owl
or effect?
tawny sigil
shanghai wins and that's all you guys got to talk about
trim shadow
i still cant believe shanghai did it
shanghai litterally yeeted giant slayer from atlanta
tawny sigil
people were crying dude, but i guess that goes with every final victory
tawny sigil
gamsu called it, he said 0-40, not under me
tawny sigil
I know how to tell if a team picked a character at the start of a match while its all hidden,
can i sell that info?
if no one knows about it
supple prism
does it involve audio?
tawny sigil
no
its actually legit
its not been there since forever, its probably a year old i dont remember
and the way it work, im sure there is some 9000iq players out there that know about it, but very not likely
if they do they're probably not telling anyone
echo quest
@tawny sigil is it visual?
echo quest
No
tawny sigil
i dont know what to do with the info
supple prism
oh, does it involve the hero select screen
tawny sigil
yea
supple prism
i think i know what you are talking about
tawny sigil
i never tested it
tawny sigil
i never fully tested it but i think i know exactly how it works
probably gonna get fixed at some point but its been there for such a long time
verbal roost
gaunt minnow
Meta is shaking.
woven badge
🙌🙌🙌
gaunt minnow
SHD came flying through the top 3 teams in the league. They shouldve had the hardest Playoff schedule.
NYXL cut.
Titans cut.
Shock cut.
supple prism
idk about flying
gaunt minnow
And Im a NYXL fan. Seeing SHD won Stage 3 who beat NYXL, I feel good now.
They were literally flying with Phara. What.
supple prism
and shock almost brang it back
gaunt minnow
Well it wasnt enough.
As time passes through the stages, diversed comps keep being tried out. Despite starting with GOATS in Stage 1, this year has been the most diversed so far. Cant wait for the next stage and OWWC to see what theyll offer.
supple prism
oh, SHD plays titans and shock again in stage 4
and titans might just get their shock and shd loses in non-stage playoffs games
gaunt minnow
Well everyone will start reviewing and adapting against SHD. My only hope is for NYXL to bounce back.
supple prism
i have them going 5-2
gaunt minnow
NYXL, playoff and choke. Team is a meme.
gaunt minnow
Teams will start either mirroring SHD or a different DPS comp.
supple prism
shd being the only one to go 7-0 because the top 7 teams all face each other this stage
north beacon
I don’t think NY choked this time
supple prism
no, i think its more like they threw it
echo quest
@supple prism Shanghai faces teams in top 5 in the standings 5 times next stage
They might not go 7-0
sullen berry
It's going to be a LOT of cross division matches
Making it virtually impossible for NYXL to get a perfect stage
If they go through another season 2 sandbag due to fatigue again
severe junco
goats is dead?
gaunt acorn
more or less
upper niche
Maybe?
I think we're all focusing on the obvious, OWL - but I wonder how it will affect Contenders. Like, will they have to follow suit? And if so when? And when will those participating teams find out?
severe junco
i think if the OWL teams abandon GOATs, Contenders will abandon goats
gaunt acorn
role lock won't make it much of a choice
it's very likely we witnessed the last instance of goats in owl yesterday
severe junco
GOATS but it's now got McCree instead of Brig
gaunt acorn
the dying breath
severe junco
i mean, shanghai saying "fuck it" and not going goats was truly the salt in the wound
upper niche
Ouch, Melb Mavericks vs Legacy in AusContenders atm on Volskaya - Melbourne have to defend 6:10 and not let them get a tick.
hidden vault
Then the question
Why would shanghai purchase an off tank who can flex to dps? If 2-2-2 is coming
balmy wolf
who would a flex support play?
little silo
Zenyatta, Ana and maybe Baptiste
severe junco
not maybe, definitely
also, the flex supports probably also know how to play brig
despite her being in a weak state right now
balmy wolf
Feels bad jayne left social media
severe junco
i mean
i saw it coming eventually?
and I don't think anybody'll learn from it
since, a lot of what Jayne put out, from what I could see, he got backlash but... no constructive criticism?
it seems to be a running thing with the internet
"I don't like this thing, but I WON'T tell you how to improve"
forest raven
Welcome to the internet fam
severe junco
god I wish that wasn't a thing with the internet
honestly, with Jayne, we were starting to see lower ranked players starting to learn more, at least from what I could tell
upper niche
Jayne was just as bad as it as his critics, no surprise really. His long letter is just weird though.
severe junco
long letter makes sense when you factor in his mental state
he's a broken man
on the off chance we see somebody at an overwatch league level, whether that's player, coach, etc, pick up where jayne left off, only time can tell
balmy wolf
Leaving social media is not a big thing. It is good for everyone to take a break, from time to time. Especially when you were so involved in it. And whatever is said in his letter, it’s just a matter of time before he comes back (with probably a new approach, more suitable to him).
When you use social media to... talk about social media, it’s time to get back to real life!
Did you want him to use like a mega phone and just yell it out cause how else would you go about getting that message across
See? That’s exactly the point. You consider that you MUST announce in social media whatever you do in life, and even more you have to announce in social media what you do in social media.
I don’t. If you need to take a break, just take it.
Social media are a mean, not a purpose
When you are a prevalent figure in a community with a large following, people are gonna wonder what happened to you and if you speak often on social media then just don’t use it for a long time without prior notice then likely everyone will assume the worse and think you died which you probably don’t wanna do to the fans who do care about you and mean well. An announcement makes sense here. There is a line between public figure in a community vs an average person and while your line of thinking falls to the average person; I dont think it falls for the public figure status.
limber pine
I don't have a problem with him leaving social media or with his letter.
but it does seem a little odd that pros and figures want more trash talk and stuff from the community, and when they get it, they get upset.
not specifically Jayne
but in general
red anvil
It's double standards delux unfortunately
when he as a streamer calls out certain players, his fanbase will listen to that and accept it as a truth
and they will go to lengths to jump on that "fact" and say bullshit
karmic grotto
Isn't that with every streamer
tawdry epoch
What the heck Shanghai
Just rolled all of the best teams in the league? Beat New York and Vancouver 4-1????????
And took champ???
What happened to 0-40?
hybrid sage
domozilla were u under rock for the past month
balmy wolf
Props to houston
They opened the floodgate for dps comps to come back when they beat shock
red anvil
Not really props to houston there, shanghai was doing this stuffs before houston
balmy wolf
Yea but they didn’t make it work against the top team
It was basically
Shock and vancouver goats gods beating up everyone else
Houston beat them with not goats comp and that opened the flood gates
Others have tried it yea
But they didnt succeed
Houston succeeding against the top team opened the flood gates
pearl stratus
Houston beat them on control with no Goats.
Every other map was Sombra Goats as a majority minus specific points (Volskaya A) which other teams had been playing non-Goats on just as often.
They did not open a flood gate at all.
balmy wolf
What would you attribute it to then?
Cause stage 3 wasnt patch changed any differently than stage 2
tropic herald
Teams started realizing they weren’t ever going to catch up to VAN and SFS in GOATs so they tried other comps
red anvil
It was just an eventual grind and natural progression, figuring out comps and counter comps take time.
that combined with almost all on SHD being allowed to play there signature heroes eventually worked out
balmy wolf
Then what would you call most teams trying to go for sombra goats that started in stage 1 and 2 but got absolutely steamrolled before houston did it in stage 3 and a lot of teams most notably new york tried to follow suit?
Cause this is the course of events that I have seen and no I’m not an outlaws fan
Goats being prevalent. Teams realized they couldnt beat the shock or titans with it so they try sombra goats. It gets rolled and crushed in stage 1 and or 2. Teams resign back to mostly goats with triple dps depending on the map. Stage 3 starts off with goats. Houston pulls out sombra goats and dps comps against the shock and win, people trying more dps comps now with sombra variant goats
pearl stratus
Most teams didn't try for Sombra Goats, they tried for Shanghai Goats. There is a difference although it seems minute. It's like saying people went "Chengdu" for stage 3, when they don't play Chengdu's style at all.
tropic herald
Yeah only a few teams even tried doing Sombra in Stages 1 and 2
plucky rune
hammond is associated with chengdu
pearl stratus
Houston was getting deep dicked hard in scrims by Chengdu. I mean a fucking like you wouldn't believe. They were trying to play Goats and Chengdu was literally whispering in their ear "Call my daddy you wastes of space."
So they got frustrated and swapped to heroes they were good at.
tropic herald
Houston beat Shock bc Shock didn’t prepare and Danteh is an insane Sombra
pearl stratus
And realized playing what you're good at is better than playing what you're shit at. Three stages late.
They didnt' arrive on this train by a magical incursion. They literally couldn't even play Goats against Chengdu.
That's how shit they were at the comp.
plucky rune
how many teams can play goats against chengdu
pearl stratus
Most.
Chengdu's style throughout the start was not impervious to Goats. They don't play it as well as Shanghai at this point now does.
plucky rune
so the bamboozle factor that the hunters made their name with isn't as effective as it used to be
pearl stratus
Its only a bamboozle the first time you see it.
tropic herald
Yeah Chengdu is predictable
pearl stratus
Stage 3 had more effect with them pulling out Sombra Goats than their standard 1:3:2.
tropic herald
They are going to play that triple dps they always played
pearl stratus
Their new bamboozle became "Look, we can play goats now too."
tropic herald
Well Chengdu is still a great team
pearl stratus
They are, and they're still greatly coached.
But what I'm saying is that Houston didn't innovate a style or cause other teams to change what they were doing.
They simply gave up on trying to be good at something they were shit at.
And Shanghai had been running their Pharah Sombra since the start of Stage 2.
balmy wolf
Would you say then that it was coaching or players fault for banging their heads against the door of goats when the team wasnt good at it
pearl stratus
So to attribute it to houston is just flat out wrong.
Both.
Because when everyone everywhere says Goats is the best you're going to think you need to play it.
When Shock and Vancouver play it so smoothly you can see how effective it is.
But at the end of the day most of the league (~85%) could never play it to those teams levels.
And after a point it was wasted.
I will continually argue that GOAT's is not visually boring.
When its both teams play it well.
plucky rune
most of it goes over my head tbh
pearl stratus
But the league parity was so bad it wasn't watching good games.
plucky rune
if i want to enjoy a goats match, i have to go into replay and break it down
pearl stratus
And first and foremost, regardless of comp, you need to have good games.
plucky rune
the learning is fun though, so i don't mind trying to pick it apart
pearl stratus
that's fair but look at Stage 2 playoffs - no one complained about Titans v. Shock.
Because that was an amazing game. Two teams that really actually understood the comp
And it was a ton of fun to watch.
Then think of like.. Stage 2 Florida or Washington trying to play Goats.
And you can just see why people hated it.
Because they weren't playing it well in the first place.
plucky rune
is new york a good goats team?
pearl stratus
For the Atlantic Division, yes
balmy wolf
In a way they were originally in 1 and 2 but they are horrible at sombra goats
pearl stratus
In terms of the league, they're better than most but not great.
Atlantic Division doesn't have a lot of top tier teams, overall.
So it can be really easy for NYXL to look completely dominant.
I.E. Stage 3.
Atlantic Division is: Atlanta, Boston, Florida, Houston, London, NYXL, Paris, Philly, Toronto, Washington.
So compared to the rest NYXL was an amazing Goats team.
balmy wolf
I still really don’t understand the arbitrary atlantic and pacific divide.
pearl stratus
Because you'd be pants on head stupid to do division and home games in the same season.
While its arbitrary right now getting infrastructure in place ahead of time makes transitions smoother.
The same reason why they're not adding new teams with the Home games.
You don't want to just overload the orgs.
balmy wolf
I don’t understand. How is having division and home games at the same gonna overload the orgs. Wouldn’t they still do everything they were doing prior but with a different team in focus cause if this remains, we would get another new york dominated atlantic thing again wouldnt we
pearl stratus
It's also viewer oriented to get used to how the stages will evolve.
People worry about it over things like Stage playoffs, but forget that Stage playoffs are just fan service.
balmy wolf
But that doesnt answer my question. How would say putting new york against gladiators instead of say florida be any different? I really am trying to understand the need for atlantic vs pacific because I’m looking at this through the lens of “team against team” and not “team in this division can only fight teams in the same division”
storm cloak
When is next match?
pearl stratus
Two weeks or so
And my best guess is they're doing it for a logical breakup of the teams for global travel. The Atlantic Division, listed above, even in high travel is in small area overall - with the longest trip being to London.
trim shadow
There will be a special show thursday more then likely introudcing 222 and map pool changes
And machine gun mcree
pearl stratus
Most people don't realize a flight from say....
Boston.
Is the same duration to London as to LA, basically.
trim shadow
Boston to philly is a hour flight
Dc washington to new york@is a good
Hour drive
Hell probably shorter
Since dc connects to 4-5 different states?
Its only when you get to atlanta to miami which is like 7 hours a drive but a 1 hour 30 flight
Probably 8 hours a drive
pearl stratus
So you've set up the Atlantic division as a corridor based upon what works best. Since London is closer, geographically and travel time, to the Atlantic Coast of the US than any of the current pacific listed teams.
trim shadow
I think in terms what they have now it would be smarter to switch dallas and toronto
pearl stratus
The LA teams are honestly the most screwed.
balmy wolf
So for season 3 would their be more or less games
trim shadow
Same amount honestly
But stretched out longer
So season might not end until like
October?
pearl stratus
Same amount, just less cross grouping would be my guess.
trim shadow
But then if they stretch the season wouldnt that be a shorter off season
Not enough time for season 4 expansion to get arenas and players on contract
I would do it NFL style where teams play once a week if i was the schelduer
pearl stratus
If you ever want to be completely obfuscated look at the NFL division/conferences. They use obnoxious formulas and stuff too based on last season results.
Which could also be a reason they did a division thing ahead of home games.
For the NFL its 2x Division games (So all Atlantic teams play each other twice) then the other games played are done based on their record from the previous year.
So NYXL for instance would potentially have 2 games against conference rivals (Shock/Vancouver), then 1 game against the others.
It gets really confusing really quickly.
trim shadow
Im kinda thinking
The divisions should be set up in 4’s
Like the nfl has them
I think thats what ur talking about
Where there under pacific and atlantic
But there pacific west or atlantic east
So for example
Chengdu
Guangzhou
Shanghai
Hangzhou
Pacific West
Philly boston washington new york
Alantic north
pearl stratus
I think it would be easier to manage, but bad for viewership overall.
Because basically you'd get OWL Contenders.
tropic herald
I think they should at least have 4 divisions
trim shadow
i was also thinking of like 2 sub divisions within a major division
like 5 teams to one side and they play each other majority of the time with cross sub division matches
and the occasion cross division
tropic herald
They could have American Pacific and Asian Pacific
And Mid America and Atlantic
I think that would even out
trim shadow
The outliers are toronto vancouver and london
shell sierra
Ye
tropic herald
Vancouver would be American Pacific
trim shadow
Toronto and vancouver are extremely hard to place
and then you have the california teams
Who are the furthest
From everyone
tropic herald
The California teams would all be American Pacific
trim shadow
Most brits drive to paris
jagged crater
Raptors are east so Toronto east :)
tropic herald
Asian Pacific would be Chengdu, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, Shanghai and Seoul
trim shadow
You would have to group up london and paris
If there were a german and other eu team@it would be easier
tropic herald
American Pacific would be Vancouver, LA, LA, San Francisco and Dallas
I’ll have to think of the others
trim shadow
I would wanna keep dallas and houston together tbh
echo quest
Twitter
supple prism
welp there goes shock
pearl stratus
He's got two weeks
tawny sigil
he's washed up dude
limber pine
They'll be fine
trim shadow
Im sure that last final probably destroyed him
I cant imagine the pain of seeing that cart roll into the golden box
echo quest
Wasn’t this announced a couple of days ago?
limber pine
this weekend I think
copper solstice
I think he considers himself one trick Hanzo or something
pearl stratus
Tviq was always average - never bad but never going crazy popping off.
upper hawk
Man i cant wait for this meta to full collapse. So many players are stuck on heroes they arent best at
I think the first time it annoyed me was seeing Soon on Brig
Like what a fking waste
pearl stratus
They're not stuck on it.
^ People who obviously don't watch stage finals.
Unless you're smooth brained af after watching the entire playoffs you know the meta is collapsed.
Unless you don't count a team beating all three of the only real teams in the league with a 1:3:2 comp.
Disclaimer: There's more than 3 teams, they need to beat the Spark as well.
naive garden
Did Shanghai run Goats at all last night?
naive garden
Thats what I thought
pearl stratus
Going through NYXL, Vancouver and Shock.
It's quite possibly the most legitimate finals finish the leagues ever seen, and completely counters everyone whining about Goats still.
naive garden
yeah, so now 2-2-2 locks seems like a bad idea
limber pine
2-2-2 good for balance
pearl stratus
For balancing I do still think it's easier, but bullshit.
limber pine
bad for everything else
naive garden
Honestly, I rather see a hero ban system
pearl stratus
Need 10 to 20 more heroes first, sadly.
pearl stratus
My issue with 2-2-2 balance is that I don't see a situation in which blizzard doesn't just nerfs things unfairly just to change metas.
We're going to settle onto a meta fast in 2-2-2, we already saw it last night.
So they'll nerf heroes that realistically don't overly need it just to force the meta to change
It'll become a big merry go round of nerfs.
balmy wolf
Bunker comp until blizzard decides to nerf it then dive until blizzard nerfs, then rein and zarya and then buff bunker and around and around we go
pearl stratus
Dive is Winston/D'va.
limber pine
You won't see Zarya in 2-2-2
pearl stratus
But yes.
limber pine
DVa close to 100%
balmy wolf
What we have now is creativity to run other things that can beat other comps instead of forcing a mirror and the fans will have only themselves to blame
pearl stratus
Hog, over D'va.
balmy wolf
And endoken mb, i didnt punctuate that correctly
pearl stratus
Yoink and Oink is broken good right now.
balmy wolf
I meant a comma
pearl stratus
Problem is Bunker handles Dive better than anything else.
The only thing to really beat bunker is bunker.
And god forbid it becomes CV bunker Mirror matches with torb+mei.
Zzzzzz.
pearl stratus
I mean Goats did last too long.
balmy wolf
It did but the problem itself is gone now
pearl stratus
But I think there's a case to be argued that part of the reason it lasted too long was people being scared to commit to anything else.
limber pine
why will you blame plat chat?
I assume the pros complained the loudest
it is coming to OWL first after all
pearl stratus
Thats not necessarily proof the pros complained the loudest, if viewership numbers were declining and people were on full blown Reee.
balmy wolf
Cause plat chat is majority of the player base and they have some real bad ideas about how the game should work such as seeing no problem with nuking every other comp so that goats is gone
pearl stratus
Blizzard, as a company, tends to bend over and grab ankles whenever their playerbase gets really loud.
Regardless of game.
balmy wolf
The pros themselves are annoyed and thats valid but thats more on the team and coaching staff for not trying anything else until now
limber pine
yeah but now we lose 3-2-1, triple dps, and the famous 5 dps Mayhem loadout
pearl stratus
They were notorious for reverting and changing stuff in WoW when people got super loud.
It's honestly kind of pathetic.
balmy wolf
If what happened in stage 3 happened in stage 2; i guarantee no one would have brought up role lock and bring it to popularity now with plat chat
pearl stratus
I think its okay to tell your playerbase to fuck off now and again, if you do it right. And Jeff has done it right before.
pearl stratus
I think 2-2-2 is a fine idea for ladder.
But they refuse to have a dichotomy between pro and ladder play.
upper hawk
Ok that i could get behind
pearl stratus
Which makes sense.
upper hawk
Not for OWL
pearl stratus
Because you want people to emulate pros and stuff, its good for game health.
balmy wolf
Honestly I personally don't believe there should be a difference between pro and ladder play bc that just adds another barrier between ladder players hitting pro
pearl stratus
Yeah I was getting there 😛
balmy wolf
To preface I'm a little more extreme than most in terms of... balance/idea
balmy wolf
I'm a strong firm believer in "the game is very well balanced you need to gid gud" towards lower elos
Not perfectly
pearl stratus
I don't care if the average gold player can't do [x].
balmy wolf
but honestly after these last games
pearl stratus
They're in gold.
balmy wolf
with the total amount of different possible comps that are viable
pearl stratus
I understand 2-2-2 from a 'we want easier balancing' perspective, since you want to stem goats type comps from being a thing again.
But I think its an extreme solution.
Because there will always be a strongest meta.
balmy wolf
So from an extremists point of view, I strongly believe it would just limit the total amount of possible counterplay to oppressive metas BUT I can't deny that it would just be far easier to balance
pearl stratus
Dive was played 95% of maps for 8 months.
If you weren't playing Tracer, Genji or Widow you were throwing.
According to public opinion.
gaunt acorn
pearl stratus
I still also argue that Goats might not have been as oppressive if people were willin to commit to other ideas earlier.
But thats a time:value situation.
balmy wolf
Would that be blamed on the coaching staff?
pearl stratus
Yes and no, its hard. You only have so many hours in the day.
So you could practice the one comp you know is good and can be used nearly everywhere.
Or you could experiment and potentially just... always lose.
balmy wolf
But
If you are already losing from playing said comp, why bash your face against the wall and instead take your chances and do other comps. Houston was running goats everywhere until recently
Washington too
Same with florida
pearl stratus
Because it was still viewed as the best and unpracticed attempts to run other things into it had failed.
balmy wolf
OK so here's the problem with GOATs initially
The first GOATs was actually one of the worst versions of it
As well as the worst ways to play it
The WORST version of a meta was the #1 way to play
upper hawk
Washinton does nothing normal lol. Their decisions in game are just bizarre sometimes
balmy wolf
That's how oppressive the comp was
pearl stratus
Then you refine it, multiple times, over 6 months.
pearl stratus
Also realistically we still started seeing Goats innovations.
Shock playing it with the Baptiste for instance.
balmy wolf
But quad dps with several sightlines became the norm for going against GOATs
upper hawk
Its that experimenting that brought the game to life again. Watching teams try whatever they could because beating the best goats team as a subpar goats team just doesnt work most of the time
pearl stratus
That always felt very Route 66 to me, I don't remember seeing it much other maps.
upper hawk
I loved seeing the progression every week
balmy wolf
The biggest problem with that is
pearl stratus
But I think thats because Quad DPS always kind of lived on 66.
balmy wolf
When you spend time learning how to beat a comp
You spend time not getting better at that comp
So if you're Shock or NYXL trying fully on GOATs
Suddenly you're up against a random ass team comp that you've never played against while they've played against GOATs a billion times
upper hawk
That was kind of the source of success for SHD
The goats teams just couldnt handle the new looks
balmy wolf
You're not entirely wrong
upper hawk
throwing in hammond fully
balmy wolf
Hit em hard and hit em by surprise
pearl stratus
The thing is though - I don't think most teams in the league could do what Shanghai did. So its not like Goats is entirely unviable, or Sombra Goats.
The mechanical/mental skill around that play style is super high
upper hawk
I mean thats true. The diem/dding pair is just off the charts
pearl stratus
Unless you can find me a bunch of mercies who, mid barrage, will zip in and body block damage for their Pharah and then zip out.
balmy wolf
Animetic 
pearl stratus
I know there's some, hush you 😛
balmy wolf
Well no good ones to be fair
pearl stratus
But I don't see like.... Custa being able to do that, no offense to Custa.
I don't even see Neptuno doing it for Eqo.
pearl stratus
I could potentially see Yveltal pull it off, probably Moth.
But its an incredibly high skilled comp to beat Goats.
pearl stratus
But all in all I'm going to be very sad to see Shanghai lose their 1:3:2/1:2:3 comp if we get 2-2-2.
It takes an incredible amount of teamwork and mechanical skill.
balmy wolf
Plat chat: but goats is still too op
jagged crater
goats residentsleeper
jagged crater
not hot take, i think it's generally agreed goats is fun to play (esp at a high level), but not as fun to watch
balmy wolf
Is it?
jagged crater
unless you're stuck in brig jail and want to play dps
balmy wolf
Every casual player I see thinks playing GOATs is like a fuckin 9-5 typing job
karmic grotto
May I have an opinion on Dragons
oak bloom
Playing zen in goats is the most fun ever, just constant damage hit marks, so satisfying
karmic grotto
Dragons started doing this 3 dps compo since the first stage, even though they did an odd comp with Rein Zarya Pharah Mercy
But they started practicing this since beginning
They are very succesful
jagged crater
i'll think of it this way: tanks and support mains have fun playing goats, dps mains less so
oak bloom
what changed though to make them so good now
balmy wolf
Yeah but DPS has always been the bitch of a team comp
limber pine
they stopped forcing DDing to play DVa
balmy wolf
It's arguably controversial but DPS players at the highest elo are always... told what to do
limber pine
and just said fuck it
balmy wolf
like unless you're Pharah or Tracer, you play at the mercy of your tanks/supports
karmic grotto
with that in mind
tanks and support have greater game sense than dps
they're more for the mechanical part
and head clicks
upper hawk
DPS role is very straight forward. You live and die by the quality of tank/healer play
balmy wolf
I stopped playing dps in gm bc it was just so boring, you just go somewhere and left or right click and sometimes hit Q when your tank is the one actually putting thought behind it.
Now I off tank and flex support
upper hawk
For SHD though their dps is so friggin good they control matches
upper hawk
xD but then again dding cant do half of what he does without Coma
jagged crater
how often do you get mercy mains in your games
balmy wolf
Also lol @ HuK for dropping to Diamond after being consistent t500 in goats meta
karmic grotto
ah
jagged crater
is that just decay?
karmic grotto
look at that
balmy wolf
nnnnnnnnnope
I found this funny but out of everyone you’d think to take out pharah, the fact choi was the one who took him down most makes me chuckle
karmic grotto
Those are called
balmy wolf
My dude plays at least 20 hours a week
karmic grotto
meta players
upper hawk
Dude chois hooks were nuts
trim shadow
Uh
balmy wolf
I mean HuK has always been a dva one trick
jagged crater
that's surprising considering huk plays tanks mostly?
trim shadow
Stellar just signed to boston
balmy wolf
sorry what
upper hawk
That one hook to pull Diem off high ground blew my mind
trim shadow
I think my eyes are decieving me
pearl stratus
Great Jebait to escape Toronto's fate.
pearl stratus
900IQ.
balmy wolf
Nice rhyme
karmic grotto
HAHAHA
upper hawk
Lolo
trim shadow
Stellar why
karmic grotto
the silent carry of toronto
oak bloom
can boston even make playoffs
karmic grotto
retired
balmy wolf
It ain't much of an upgrade
karmic grotto
goes back to owl
jagged crater
that was a fast retirement
trim shadow
sorry toronto im retiring
trim shadow
ok remember when i said i was lying
karmic grotto
so that means Dafran comes back 
balmy wolf
The shit they pulled with Fahzix
jagged crater
i dont even know anything about stellar tbh
upper hawk
It shows. Their play is so fking bad
jagged crater
did he even play in toronto
balmy wolf
I was honestly super motivated to try out for GM unsuccessfully just because I wanted to fix that fuckery
karmic grotto
justice?
balmy wolf
Yeah
pearl stratus
Justice is like...
karmic grotto
They are getting 2 new tanks
karmic grotto
what do you think about them?
jagged crater
fahzix for main tank
pearl stratus
I feel like you open the door to their team house and its just the Benny Hill music.
As no one has any clue what the fuck is going on.
jagged crater
his orisa is nutty
balmy wolf
jagged crater
harb fahz duos are so good
karmic grotto
Harbleu?
limber pine
at least Justice's signings make sense
jagged crater
when they starting a team together
karmic grotto
limber pine
Florida just gets whoever they can
balmy wolf
I can't comment on Harb but I just wanna say I ain't happy about it
upper hawk
Everytimw i saw Justice i was just like...what the actual fuck are they doing
balmy wolf
Florida should have taken fissure instead of seoul
Justice and GGEA behind the scenes...
God
upper hawk
Playing GOATs all spread out
balmy wolf
If he failed proper punishment
upper hawk
Just a mess
balmy wolf
How-not-to-run-a-team 101
karmic grotto
Harb the same thing as fahzix?
jagged crater
harb + fahzix + 4 other players kicked from their teams. They gonna win contenders
karmic grotto
I can't understand
karmic grotto
How a human can be like that, TO another human
balmy wolf
Business
People have this sense of "you need to be nice to your org!!!" but it's a business.
If you are not good and you don't improve
You will be replaced
Obviously I don't condone what happened to Fahzix
But there are so many people that are like "You should keep [player] they're so nice!!!"
upper hawk
Itd be nice if OWL was the first sports league where a Florida teams owners gave a shit though lol
jagged crater
fahzix still officially on the team surprisingly
balmy wolf
I've been following and close to Fahzix for almost a year and a half, if anyone genuinely deserved a chance to show their skill and improvement capability in OWL it'd be him
The pure dedication and motivation he has to improve is almost unparalleled
jagged crater
they didnt announce him leaving or anything yet
balmy wolf
Honestly? Keep an eye out for RhynO.
jagged crater
even tho fahz isnt even physically there anymore
karmic grotto
You know what I think? People don't have the BALLS to say that face-to-face
balmy wolf
13 year old current t3 MT
Not too hot in top OD but literally one of very very very few people I've worked with that was genuinely motivated to improve
karmic grotto
if you're 13 yo and you like games
balmy wolf
He was 12 when he hit 4600 iirc with rein
karmic grotto
and your parents think putting their son on gaming young age
makes me think about 12 year old fortnite pro
balmy wolf
Oh scholarships are so fuckin stupid
Literally like
we're a 4.2k team, we just scrim 12 hours a week
They even sponsored me for the grad school when I graduated
The only requirement was to show up to LANs (which was out of our own pocket but they provided transportation) but that was fun asf in of itself
karmic grotto
Wait a minute here
Contenders team have 4.3k as requirement
Why do OD teams often have 4.4k?
balmy wolf
They have that as a requirement for open tryouts
karmic grotto
oh
But why should one even tryout for Contenders, when they don't have many scrim experience
balmy wolf
That was... https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdRoDEbGVfMfKJPKhMhYPqf6sVjiAyMDGbIKo6hmtUxs6Nu4A/viewform
Depends, some players made it
karmic grotto
balmy wolf
Sparkr did, he made it to British Hurricane after popping off in ladder
karmic grotto
Shouldn't you have experience with scrimming?
jagged crater
how bout im37
karmic grotto
He lacks experience :), but at least he gets play time
balmy wolf
btw when you sign up they dont like
they dont immediatley pop you into the game
They take your VoDs too
He may lack experience but he sure as shit didn't need much
Basically when you're contacted for trying out, they take your VoDs
They check how you perform individually (almost always mostly mechanics/aim)
karmic grotto
is that for dps players?
balmy wolf
So if you're a Main Support, how your wall riding is and your duels
balmy wolf
Mechanics is for any hero, it's movement and ability-specific usage too
i.e. D.Va flight control
It's not solely aiming but good aim can't hurt
jagged crater
yea even your mercy mechanics
balmy wolf
So they check that, THEN they offer you a tryout
If you're a nobody, they often schedule you for half a block
If you're a ladder star, one block
jagged crater
so it goes open -> trials -> contenders?
karmic grotto
what about sparkr then
balmy wolf
Sparkr was a nobody
jagged crater
so he's like EU's im37?
karmic grotto
haha, z9hong
balmy wolf
(Hafficool is the Linkzr of EU, Pine but consistent)
jagged crater
but linkzr already EU
karmic grotto
So that's why they call him kitty in those scrims of this server
karmic grotto
jagged crater
which OWL team has the weakest widow player? I was thinking about this the other day. Hard to say
should the meta go 222
jagged crater
yea some teams played widow a lot less so we dont see much of them
but we agree every team has a very capable widow player
balmy wolf
New york has how many ppl who can play widow?
jagged crater
like 4
balmy wolf
Thought so
karmic grotto
I'm disappointed in nyxl
balmy wolf
And how many that can play sombra?
karmic grotto
playing goats meta when they have excellent dps players
jagged crater
🤷
karmic grotto
I felt betrayed by their coach
balmy wolf
Meh
I love new york cause as a support player I love jjonak
And sbb played tracer the best imo
jagged crater
did you love nyxl for ark when he was the team?
balmy wolf
Yea
I didnt care for janus
I love good support players and jjonak is top dirty dog for that
jagged crater
im leaning towards spark or vancouver for "weakest" widow. Doesn't mean they're bad widows, just weaker relative to other widows in the other teams
balmy wolf
Twilight is good too but how much more attention bumper gets is what annoys me
jagged crater
is it godsb or krystal that plays widow for spark, i dont even follow tbh
raw ermine
supple prism
valiant has a sniper?
haughty hazel
what is mae's counter
jagged crater
vancouver and shock starters have the most playtime in OWL so far (not surprising)
moth being #1
haughty hazel
what is mei's counter please tell me
supple prism
orisa
haughty hazel
thx man
jagged crater
taimou has the least deaths/10m of all OWL players poggers
haughty hazel
what about rhionhartds
supple prism
mei
haughty hazel
thx
balmy wolf
Widow if you can hit her head
supple prism
yea i just went with orisa because its just too unfair for mei
jagged crater
does that api work
upper hawk
For the amount of stats the game has, OWL really skimps on it with their site
I mean granted for comparisons dmg/healing is the categories to go to
But id like to see all the other individual stats
tropic herald
I’d like it if I could filter players better
Y’all ready for that announcement Thursday at 4 pm PT?
Wonder what it could be
tropic herald
Well I knew it was 222 they all put up 2s
upper hawk
le sigh
It could it lessening Sombras play value
With 2 dps its kind of sacrificing a chunk of dmg output for an emp
minor flame
its a emp
top teams wont care
cause its a emp
and top sombras can charge it up fast
and sombras dmg is still decent enough
echo quest
Sombra zzzzzzzzz 💩💩💩💩
minor flame
say whatever you want about sombra but shes one of the only reasons we havent gotten a very dominant bunker meta yet
upper hawk
Its pretty nuts how fast a team can roll a fight with just her ult
tropic herald
Well that’s GOATs
trim shadow
s4 the return of goats
gaunt acorn
he un-retired
balmy wolf
GeorgeLion66 in Contenders tryouts 👀
tropic herald
For who?
balmy wolf
uhhh cant say
tropic herald
Ohh I see ;)
balmy wolf
balmy wolf
People are kinda butthurt bc the big names came in last second and was immediately filled up to higher phases of the tryouts
tropic herald
Who cares? We knew Canada would already have the same roster as last year
balmy wolf
I mean it's kinda yikes when they don't announce it at all
echo quest
No note tf
balmy wolf
They were in Phase 3
The people who made it that far were cut without given a chance to try
balmy wolf
no word on note tbh
echo quest
Did Akawa try out?
balmy wolf
no word means idk, if their name isnt there then i got no clue
i just see the leaks, i dont know any staff personally
upper hawk
xQc is a good example of just looking at the big names. Rarely plays the game anymore up until his invite
but when hes good hes good
balmy wolf
eehhhh
he still plays in scrims
remember hes still sub for gla legion
and gla legion is not bad at all
upper hawk
Oh thats right
balmy wolf
i am one of the biggest public haters of xqc but i will never ever disrespect his skill
his winston alone got him owl
upper hawk
I guess it was just his stream content then
upper hawk
Thats interesting
on stream he goes full balls to the wall. Super aggressive Rein
At least what ive seen. And generally wins a little over 50%
balmy wolf
off stream the man does not let you breathe without getting smacked
upper hawk
minus some rly good days
balmy wolf
its genuinely fucking insane how good xqc is when hes off stream
upper hawk
Thats awesome
balmy wolf
to the point where even i cant predict shit and i do t2 analysis for a living
eepecially his winston
hes genuinely one of the best winstons. period.
trim shadow
tbh how many canadians you know that plays ow to a professional level?
upper hawk
Ive watched his streams for a while but its interesting to hear that. Cuz hes such a goofy fk on stream
And mostly half asses games xD
balmy wolf
hes able to keep that large ass fanbase, stay out of drama (post-owl of which i still have some complaints about), AND genuinely play that well while staying good enough to stay on contenders
tropic herald
xQc only has that fan base bc he might legit be a Pepega
upper hawk
As far as streaming goes he rly does commit everything
balmy wolf
To be completely fair, it's a personality
upper hawk
12 hrs + every day
tropic herald
I hope it’s a personality
balmy wolf
When he talks normally (this isn't my experience, it's just people that was on his team) he's literally normal
tropic herald
Does he eat like a normal person?
upper hawk
true i think his chat and fans make him act differently
It just feeds into what they want
balmy wolf
i said "talks" for a reason lmao
tropic herald
Lol
balmy wolf
man i hope he stopped eating in a bathtub
pearl stratus
Numlocked over to Envy.
echo quest
I’ve played against xqc. He’s on another level when he’s not streaming the game
tropic herald
He’s committed to it until OWWC
tropic herald
Honestly if his fans don’t like him playing OW they aren’t real fans
upper hawk
i mean i like watching him play cuz hes nuts but he streams 12 hrs a day so its not the best content after a while
Now he mostly does variety, csgo and just chatting
tropic herald
I mean he is a Contenders player
Well Ik he does variety
But he’s gonna need to commit
upper hawk
yeah he said he had an invite a few days ago and that hes going back to playing ow until wc
on his stream
Or perhaps it was until tryouts
Wc isnt til november
echo quest
@upper hawk he’s doing variety rn
balmy wolf
also theres been a lot of yikes managers
i remember when i was trailing and i asked a competing friend of mine about some tips
(this isnt uncommon)
balmy wolf
make a fake account to look like an owl scout
trim shadow
I wonder what owl scouts are like
balmy wolf
(this is all anecdotal)
jagged crater
i wonder what kind of strange art we're gonna get out of s4's art contest
nevix is 2 way>?
jagged crater
guess he was just a stand-in
balmy wolf
it was NRG iirc
Wow team envy in contenders are close to a perfect contenders season rn.
5-0, no maps dropped.
and still did well with a new tank core as well
echo quest
Doesn’t he still play for shock?
hidden vault
Stellar ultimate betrayal
balmy wolf
@echo quest Yes nevix is still in the lineup
Oh stellar came back way too late.
TD couldn't accept him since the roster was full.
I search a Gold to Plat Clan that is doing lots of scrims
hidden vault
TD's roster isn't full
balmy wolf
Not full in the sense of having 12 players.
Full in the sense that their not willing to sign anymore players.
TD is at 10 rn, logix was their last signing.
hidden vault
Should not have isn't im37 I guess
And stellar shouldn't have retired
He was their best
balmy wolf
Well it doesn't matter anymore.
He was their best brig player, and probs average on dps.
gaunt minnow
Stage 4 lets go Phara.
swift moth
dude is insane at pharah
I would say he and diem carried the shd but incredibly strong dps players are the only way to beat goats at that level of play and the other players did well
balmy wolf
meehh
its best to think of the dps on a team to be a set "value"
the tanks and supports are multipliers to that value
ddings value id honestly not more than slightly higher than the avg owl pharah but his support and tank line have such high value multiplying
trim shadow
so im watching the behind the scenes philly in atlanta
one of the coaches litteraly said
dont get tunnel vision and listen to your teamates
laughs in carpe
tawny sigil
mah shanghai, the boiz
velvet scarab
upper hawk
I think Gamsu plays a huge role in taking attention away from dding
Hammond is just so effing annoying when hes in your face all the time
Its hard to ignore
Ye id say that pic confirms it lol
tawny sigil
me and the boys pretending we're part of the shanghai team back in 2018 cause we're so bad.
NOW me and the boys pretending we're part of nyxl in 2019 cause we're still bad.
north beacon
i want to see ashe become meta :p
balmy wolf
probs be a thing in the bunker meta
tawny sigil
222 is gonna be dope though, i have a feeling free to play is coming soon
222 should be announced with free to play
revive the game
upper niche
lol free to play. Ohhhhhhh the alt accounts lol.
tawny sigil
is it a problem in LoL?
upper niche
I kinda feel like while yeah, I know they want Overwatch to be about Hero switching... they could achieve an awesome result if people selected only three or four heros they can use in a match prior to queing - and everyone gets an SR based on that hero combination. It would completely kill off smurfs and alt accounts.
@tawny sigil Is what a problem in lol?
tawny sigil
free to play
upper niche
I don't know, I don't play Lol. Is lol f2p and does it have role lock and a bazillion alts?
Aren't lol and dota flooded with abusive players?
tawny sigil
LoL is F2P, roll lock and 100+ characters
and it was the same deal when they were talking about roll lock in that game too
gonna kill the game, gonna make it worse
well it did neither
and it will do neither in OWL too
and in fact most say it was the best thing that ever happened
echo quest
@upper niche ye lol it is. Riot doesnt give a shit about smurfs
also doesnt help for new alt accounts that the base mmr is iron 4
upper niche
I don't think it'll kill OW. I HOPE it will help some of the massive, horrible problems we have with the community... but I don't think it will.
tawny sigil
wont fix toxicity
upper niche
I think people will bitch and moan for a little while, the trolls, smurfs, throwers and people just being general dicks will continue, and in four months time we'll be in exactly the same state talking about the same problems all over again and nothing will have changed.
tawny sigil
yeah something like that
but i can imagine the game going free to play
there is so many ways to verify accounts
to prevent alts
oak bloom
I don't think overwatch will go f2p, they make bank on people buying alts and new people, not too sure how much they make on lootboxes
tawny sigil
that's why the game is in a shit state
once people stop buying account, it will go f2p
maybe that's now, who knows
oak bloom
they just come out with events new heros maps etc, it draws people back
oak bloom
you also have OWL drawing people in, it generally takes games to be near dying to go f2p
unless they come up with some other way to bring in money from overwatch
tawny sigil
well the annual revenue for OW is more than 50% down
from first year
that was 8 months ago i think
or 6 i dont remember
oak bloom
hasn't the price of overwatch gone down a lot since the first year, besides you get the largest burst when the game is released, its just settling in to an average, still not enough to go f2p, but maybe they will you never know
tawny sigil
still same price, it goes on sales
but that's always been
oh nvm they added legendary edition now
and put the normal version for 20$
whatever legendary edition is
oak bloom
comes with all the bonus skins i believe
tawny sigil
there is no way, that's where they are suposed to get em
oak bloom
the origin skins are only from those special editions
except for Noire skin for widow i think, that was pre order
upper niche
I would be seriously surprised if annual revenue for OW is only down to 50% from year one.
Especially considering the changes to lootboxes. Like... who even buys them anymore now that duplicates aren't a thing?
tawny sigil
it was down 18% after year 1
and 30% after year 2
30% after the 18%
so more than 50%
and we're on year 3 now
sudden plover
Overwatch 2 Baby
tawny sigil
thats gonna be single player
upper niche
It still seems unlikely - especially given that they probably count all console alts and even free trials as an account in their stats. At Jan 17 they were at around 22m, Jan 18 they were at 38m.
June 16: 10m. May 18: 40m. Figures are so fishy :/
hidden vault
When does trade signings have to be annouced?
upper niche
Do they even?
gaunt acorn
@hidden vault i don't believe there is any requirement for them to be announced
publicly, anyways
tawny sigil
don't @ me
hidden vault
Okay my bad when is the last day to finalise signings?
tawny sigil
world cup or owl?
sudden plover
Pie Contest
hidden vault
Owl
sudden plover
No
trim shadow
puckett out here confirming 222 with that statment at the end of stage 3 finals
i would go as far to say bob can be a bunker buster if placed right
supple prism
maybe a distraction
trim shadow
ball/bob is a interesting combo
oak bloom
bob is a a bit inconsistent on where you think he's gonna go, almost think bob should act a bit like dva bomb where it slides around corners and stops after a certain amount of time or hits a wall or person
echo quest
Shy is only 16 feelsbadman
hidden vault
Also do you guys think that toronto would pick up 2 western supports?
severe junco
maybe?
hidden vault
If not they would pull a shanghai
Where supports speaks a different language from the front line
balmy wolf
52 homestands next yr...
4 divisions
Ok wow there a lot new things being revealed
This means the blizzard arena is done for.
Every game is gonna be at a venue for a different team.
And no stage playoffs next yr
Where did u read that
upper niche
Melbourne Storm. Just gonna throw it out there 😉
But I don't think they'll re-use the Storm name for the esports team.
severe junco
if we get an australian team and they're in melbourne I'm gonna lose my shit