you know whats worse than insulting
#esports-discussion
supple prism
how is brig op
green stump
Goats is used maybe...30 to 40% and most of the time its in 4200+ NOT masters
supple prism
she wasnt even op before her last nerf
green stump
and when it IS used in masters, its often destroyed by a pharah comp
fathom acorn
gets insulted
has been insulting bean by calling him silver the entire convo
IQ: 200
green stump
@feral igloo So where are you getting this info that goats is run 90% in masters or above?
fathom acorn
Watching literally any streamer proves that false
feral igloo
The fact that almost every game I play the team says in voice chat “let’s run goats”
fathom acorn
Dafran, seagull, emongg
worn falcon
I want Ryu in Ana 
green stump
well..thats not plausibly justified @feral igloo you need actual facts, not personal opinion
fathom acorn
The fact is “let’s run goats” is also a meme
minor flame
so shes def too op
fathom acorn
I mean look at seagull
feral igloo
I never claimed my statements to be 100% solidified proof of what the actual problems are, I only claimed brigette was op. That doesn’t mean she actually is or is not, I’m sharing my opinion. The fact that this terry guy got angry and reverted to ad hominem is enough for me to assume he doesn’t know Jack shit about the game
fathom acorn
Cmon bro just go goats bro please bro just one round I promise bro please I’ll go brig bro let’s just play goats bro just for one round I swear bro
worn falcon
Seagull is now apex player, and Calvin now plays minecraft
fathom acorn
gets mad over insults
has been insulting people the entire convo
@worn falcon no he’s back to OW
green stump
@feral igloo You're doing the exact same thing
feral igloo
Nah, that’s only you @fathom acorn
feral igloo
You literally just claimed to insult bean
fathom acorn
His stream numbers went down
minor flame
?????
green stump
in fact, you've been continuing it without facts, you've only been using personal opinion to justify yourself and demanding it be treated as fact@feral igloo
feral igloo
You’re entitled to believe what you want but I’m not entitled to believe it.
worn falcon
@fathom acorn wait he did? 
minor flame
claiming a balance of a hero is too op is objectively wrong in objective sense
theres no subjection
fathom acorn
@worn falcon yeah. Look at his YouTube, his OW vids do much better than his apex vids.
He plays both now
green stump
especially if you use GOATS as your reason to her being OP as GOATS is a very unique comp
feral igloo
Opinions are just opinions and if an opinion makes you so angry that you have to attack someone’s character shut the fuck up or you’re just going to look stupid
fathom acorn
But it’s obvious that his OW is more popular when none of his apex vids have even broken 100k
green stump
@feral igloo You are doing the same, your now projecting yourself onto him
minor flame
I dont think youre getting the point
feral igloo
Yeah he attacked me, I’m human I’m bound to be upset.
fathom acorn
calls bean silver for the entire convo
green stump
No, he didnt attack you
minor flame
i havent even fucking attacked you
fathom acorn
OMG HOW COULD YOU INSULT ME
green stump
he insulted you, thats different
green stump
Yes, he insulted you, NOT attacked you
feral igloo
He made an attack on my character for a statement I made about a character in a videogame
Xd
fathom acorn
I insulted you once
minor flame
?????
minor flame
youve been calling everyone that disagrees with you gold and boosted
and now youre saying its just your opinion
lmao
feral igloo
No I called terry boosted or gold
feral igloo
I called terry and I mentioned him and even stated I was talking specifically to terry
I don’t give a fuck what rank you are @minor flame
green stump
@feral igloo If you wish to continue this conversation, take it to a DM, your opinion is your own, you may have that, but you cannot victimize yourself if you are just as guilty of insulting and shaming others. You are just as, if not more, guilty of the same crimes you are projecting onto others.
So end this now
fathom acorn
I wish I could take screenshots
minor flame
then why the fuck do you keep using ranks as a insult???
feral igloo
You’re only continuing the conversation because you believe I’m targeting you but I’m only talking about terry
green stump
no one cares if you are only targetting one person, you are tilted, calm yourself and take a break away from the discord
minor flame
Quote
"She’s op as fuck and if you think she’s not and that soldier sucks you’re probably below diamond if not silver or gold"
green stump
end this people
tulip ridge
We're here to talk about esports and we're really off-topic
green stump
exactly
minor flame
esport discussion is always off topic like this shit
started talking about how new meta will change and which heroes will be viable
to ladder shit
worn falcon
Specially after a match
feral igloo
“Your opinion is wrong so me and all my friends are going to bandwagon”
green stump
enough
fathom acorn
Genji will not be viable
Neither will tracer
But they won’t be non viable
Just not meta
fathom acorn
They’ll be in the middle
minor flame
there is no middle
tulip ridge
Situational?
fathom acorn
Yea
tulip ridge
Which hero is the least viable in the current state of overwatch?
minor flame
Torbjorn
fathom acorn
Doom
tulip ridge
Hmm both makes sense
fathom acorn
Doom will probably be better
After next patch
Less cooldown = more shields + E fix
Hogs also pretty bad
worn falcon
Man, this is stage has been a roller-coaster like season 1 1st stage
upper niche
Hm, so the only way WAS can stay ahead of LAV on the ladder is to not lose a match.
supple prism
yes
tulip ridge
Pretty much
upper niche
No pretty much about it, they're already -11 to LAVs -9, and if you lose your map diff can only go down.
fathom acorn
Washington winning
supple prism
im guessing they will end at -17
fathom acorn
upper niche
They're playing the 15th and 18th placed teams, so maybe it won't be all 0-4 matches.
minor flame
paris maybe
fathom acorn
Washington is the new shanghai
trim shadow
Valiant if they continue on this path
tulip ridge
Valiant has pretty decent players on them
fathom acorn
Too bad they bench their best players for being smart
trim shadow
I wouldve fired that coach
minor flame
didnt Custa not work out first time they played him
granted Kuki also doesnt work out
trim shadow
No one worked out lol
fathom acorn
Their are good teams in OWL
And there are teams that can do well but sometimes slip
And then there’s teams like LAV and WAJ who just suck major ass
tulip ridge
How good were the valiant last season?
trim shadow
The valiant could be good if the meta wasnt goats
trim shadow
Valiant made quaterfinals last year i think
minor flame
theyve fallen off not just because of goats
supple prism
val went 27-13 last year
minor flame
their players were mediocre this stage
trim shadow
There off season signings turned out to be monumental
tulip ridge
I joined overwatch after season 1 ended so I don't know much about last year
fathom acorn
I used to irrationally hate OWL
Then I watched seagull cover the World Cup
And I got intersted
trim shadow
Season 1 Was so long i only watched stage playoffs
fathom acorn
Then I watched
trim shadow
And ima viewer and it felt like a long season
minor flame
Season 1 was very long
by the end of the season viewership fell off
cause it was so long
minor flame
granted its not like its shorter from season 1 right now
fathom acorn
When your 2000 IQ is too high for your dumb dumb pee poo teammates
Final goal for OWL teams should be 32
minor flame
each team will have such little games each stage
fathom acorn
My favorite number
trim shadow
I would say a nice settling point is 30 teams
It could create oppurtunitys for more contenders players to get jobs
I could see blizzard adding 5 more teams and then cutting it
Owl is based off american sport leauges
Mainly the NFL
Without the draft
flint dagger
Favorite overwatch team?
trim shadow
I still want to see a draft for college overwatch and contenders
supple prism
uprising and fusion
flint dagger
oof
worn falcon
worn falcon
Being SBB and profit my favorite players
sick bloom
Hey man you just gotta Boston up
flint dagger
@flint dagger = 
@worn falcon =
@supple prism = 
@sick bloom =
@fathom acorn = 
(A man of decency)
boom
sullen berry
How
supple prism
london?
sick bloom
That lowkey is a pretty good catchphrase
sullen berry
They get served
fathom acorn
No
sullen berry
That's the point, right now
fathom acorn
flint dagger
shouldnt Denver get a team
trim shadow
Betta chill before washington goes undefeated in stage 2
flint dagger
even though ATL is my fav
trim shadow
@flint dagger yes
supple prism
shouldnt chicago?
worn falcon
Chicago
trim shadow
seattle chicago denver salt lake city sacramento or san diego
Should be the next expansion teams for NA
flint dagger
like Denver Supreme
flint dagger
ohhhh yee
trim shadow
land of the rising sun
But i dont think the japs like the koreans
And theyll want a full japaneese roster
minor flame
its not like japs play this game much
worn falcon
Japan isn't pretty invested in ow
minor flame
japs dont exactly like competitive multiplayer time consuming games
cause its a pretty work centric country
with declining birth rates and all
trim shadow
Japan is invested in jrpgs and has been for decades
Depsite being the gaming capital of the world
supple prism
should drop one of these 3 California teams, dont need all of those
trim shadow
While seoul is the esports capital
flint dagger
or San Fransisco Gold
minor flame
Japan is the capital of single player centric games
trim shadow
Gotta show love to california since blizzard is based there
trim shadow
Most of the games that come out of japan are top noch
trim shadow
Mosttt
worn falcon
Arguably
minor flame
thats pretty broad
thats like saying all the anime 3d games that come out are top notch
trim shadow
Na lootboxes there shit to all hell
worn falcon
KONAMI pls 
trim shadow
Thaz cause the japs focus on story not gameplay tbh
tulip ridge
Honestly I wonder if it's possible to make another european team
trim shadow
If there is another euro team itll either be somewhere in germany or like spain
Italy is a wild card
It would be nice to see italy
Like rome
tulip ridge
Because rome is one syllable it sounds weird to add team names to it
for some reason
sullen berry
Lets go Hunt some Runaway Titans
ruby pendant
@sullen berry that was a good game
sullen berry
Hell yeah
I had to refrain from slamming my cup too hard the moment I came into the match and saw them 2-1
nova wadi
Im surprised hunters also took them to a map 5
trim shadow
I was crying chengdu didnt pull it off
you blew ittt
Chengdu wouldve been in playoff contention
sullen berry
support the charge, if you support the off-meta chinese comps
last week is the final chance for a chinese roster to not only take map differential off vancouver
and shut the door on other top 8 teams in contention
supple prism
They have like 2 Chinese and only play one of them. The rest is Korean and a British
Hunters are the only Chinese roster
sullen berry
The charge are an example of what the Shanghai Dragons should have been, representing the asia pacific
it does so a la the Philadelphia route, sure
but if there are any teams looking to push for a good strength of schedule this stage
and then watching it peak when they face all sorts of top teams come stage 4
they'll remain my preferred chinese team, no matter their results
hidden vault
Not totally chinese also bacon jack is from taiwan
tawny sigil
oh man... that london shanghai match
sullen berry
today all i see is a schedule full of pacific teams dominating
feat. Fusions and the boys
balmy wolf
Shit i missed chengdu vs Titans was it good??
gaunt acorn
sullen berry
What if
New York continues to dominate the regular season
and still chokes at the playoffs
queen drift
hopefully theyve learnt their lesson
vale pond
So xl is now the only undefeated team?
queen drift
no
vale pond
Oh wait
queen drift
vancouver are still undefeated
queen drift
i hate how reruns are "live" according to the owl app / battle net
sullen berry
where in the app?
i'm more bothered by the app regularly kicking out logins on android
balmy wolf
Damn londen vs seoul and boston vs dallas are gonna be so fucking intense as all 4 teams can make playoffs
This gonna be good can't wait
queen drift
@sullen berry it might only be the first rerun then, or whenever is optimal for china / asia
its nnot there rn but it was definitely there after toronto and i think spark
balmy wolf
I can wait for seoul vs london it's gonna be the fucking best I can already tell
Map 5 or we riot
Who do you think will win
queen drift
neither team is good this season
could go either way tbh
if seoul figure out their fissure/jecse problems by then, i'd maybe say seoul have a slight edge
balmy wolf
London really struggled against dding on the sombra so if seoul can take advantage of that also on ilios they didn't have a good widow with profit and guard in the line-up so fleta can pop off
balmy wolf
But seoul looked so disorganized vs boston and nyxl
Maybe if they play tobi for jesce and let fissure lead the team they will pop off but idk
minor flame
Thing is London has actual comms afaik
Seoul coordination is ass
The best way they can handle this is probably putting Marve1 in A roster instead of Fissure
queen drift
Yea that’s why I said if they can sort out their jecse fissure problems they’d have the edge
They could maybe just play the B roster tbh. It looked good the other day
queen drift
So a bad goats team vs a disorganised bad goats team with no shotcaller
And you think this is gonna be a good match because...?
balmy wolf
Because of the stackes and historical rivalery
queen drift
There isn’t much of a rivalry left historically
balmy wolf
There is fissure vs london gc-busan vs lunatic hai the fact that seoul never won against a full korean roster
queen drift
Lunatic hai isn’t a thing anymore
Only jehong
There’s only 3 from Busan left
I don’t think fissure v London is a rivalry anymore.. it was when he was on glads because he wanted@to be on Seoul
Now he’s in Seoul
queen drift
Yeah but by that logic nyxl have a rivalry with most teams in the league
And Shanghai are everyone’s rivals
balmy wolf
Yeah they destroyed their playoff runs in both stage 1 and stage 2
Dude plz
Just accept the hype
queen drift
There is no hype lol
minor flame
Except London doesnt dominate or lose all the time
Even in their lows or highs they basically are Seouls kryptonite
balmy wolf
They always have been
queen drift
Bruh wdym they always have been it’s been around for barely a year
balmy wolf
It is like a super man movie were both are trying to overcome their struggels and succeed
balmy wolf
Esspecialy seoul
minor flame
How boring from you
balmy wolf
This is basicly the redemption match for seoul because they never made a playoffs and never beat london or nyxl
queen drift
Hell they’ll go undefeated from this point on
balmy wolf
And they lost against nyxl
queen drift
Belgium will win OWWC 2019
minor flame
I dont get the no hype thing if it literally decides which one goes in playoffd
And both of them are equally as
Decent?
I guess
queen drift
Because he’s not saying it’s hype because of the playoffs he’s saying it’s hype because of the rivalry that doesn’t exist
queen drift
I’m aware, we were talking about the rivalry when it comes to the hype
It went
Blah blah stKes and rivalry
Me: no rivalry
Him: yes rivalry
Me: no hype bc no rivalry
If it’s just plAyoffs sure man go for it get excited but it’s not a rivalry
minor flame
Meh
Seoul atleast have a grudge against London from s1
Defeated by London in all stages even when London was at their lowest
balmy wolf
Disscusing with someone who only wants to win and not learn from his opponent is impossible because from personal perspective he will never be wrong
sullen berry
@queen drift for the sake of argument an org rivalry starts to drift during the league, since I can't say this is Meta Bellum vs Runaway rivalry anymore
Charge vs Titans is still, Guangzhou vs Vancouver
who have players that incidentally played against each other in KR Contenders semis
pearl stratus
Btw - if anyone hasnt' and loved the Chengdu vs. Vancouver last night.
Watch Sideshows Vod from it.
It was him, Avast and Super.
sullen berry
got to check it out
Super being a backseat bumper (actually, his presence is insightful out of game)
sullen berry
that's kind of what I was going for with a backseat bumper
pearl stratus
Avast is great.
"I've never seen a player just get fed rare candies and Pokemon evolve in the middle of a game."
"Amengs initial evolution just had Orissa and Hamster as its moveset."
sullen berry
"THE HUNTERS ARE SPAWN CAMPING THE TITANS"
Just his tone and cadence is what I like as if continues his career as a colour caster
trim shadow
chengdu shouldve sticked to there guns
they obviously had vancouver dumbfounded with their chineese overwatch
amang has achieved ultra instinct
tawny sigil
what's sideshow's stream?
balmy wolf
imagine playing fortnite
slow walrus
Sideshow's stream as of late has been top tier
literally funny as hell and at the same time deeper analysis than you'll ever get with basic casters
unfiltered too which is greatly appreciated
he wasn't afraid to say "justice is wasting valuable entertainment time" even tho it was harsh and probably unneccesary
the way they talked about ameng vs bumper was funny as fuck too
"ameng is a zetachad rein that held bumper in a choke hold until he tapped out"
fathom acorn
Bumper is pretty mid
supple prism
Sideshows stream was great during that and him being on 15s delay was funny
limber pine
Twitter
green stump
Welp
balmy wolf
maybe they will win their first game with a new headcoach
limber pine
!schedule
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
balmy wolf
👀 holy i didnt knew we had such a command
limber pine
tracer bot is getting phased out
trim shadow
thats funny 
i was saying moons coaching is bad
and him saying custa is to smart to play and putting kuki on main support
and also him dropping soon and the other 2 big parts of the valiant
im not mad at the valiant
limber pine
i don't think he really had anything to do with dropping soon and the others
that was likely a Noah thing
trim shadow
even if he wasnt his direct decision he still holds some power in the front office and was at least present for the dropping off soon or trading to paris to be exact
limber pine
It depends on the structure inside LAV/Immortals
head coaches are often consulted, but usually don't have roster authority
in traditional sports anyway
trim shadow
i wonder what moon will do
since hes not the head coach anymore
honestly i think this is the fastest ive seen a coach fired
cause shanghais coach wasnt relieved until stage 3 or 4
and florida just relieved there coach before week 1
quartz cairn
can u get OWL tokens from reruns?
trim shadow
"prep for chengdu"
oh boy
i think guangzhou is gonna beat vancouver since they got absolutely exposed by chengdu
fathom acorn
London or seoul will probably take the final spot
Not even gonna try and predict who at this point
London is either top tier or trash this stage
jagged crater
power rankings is nyxl/vancouver and everyone else?
fathom acorn
For this stage yeah
We’ll have to see how the rest of the season goes though
Maybe NY will be too busy playing Minecraft to win again
limber pine
ATL is likely in
Phily is likely in
SFS is likely in
so the winner of the LON/SEO game and the winner of the DAL/BOS game are likely the last two
Guangzhou mustering a win from Vancouver would rightly fuck up everything
Houston could sneak in if they 4-0 ATL
My guess and stage 1 playoff teams
jagged crater
this stage felt short when each team only plays 7 games
but total amount of games is around the same cuz there's more teams?
fathom acorn
Gotta love how cocky bumper is
Despite being hard carried by his team
And getting destroyed by ameng
Also XQC thinks Picasso played the piano
balmy wolf
LULW
Galaxy brain indeed
Once he gets called up
He’s gonna be great, as long as he has chemistry ofc
I don’t even know if he scrims as a sub
minor flame
guangzhou
i hope guangzhou can beat titans
but i doubt it
they have good flex but titans are still titans
I also hope chengdu can keep up the momentum and beat atlanta
chengdu obviously right now has so much potential as a team to be good right now
supple prism
Hey I use that site. I figured Seoul beats london
Picasso might have played the piano at some level, hell if I know, but it's not what he is known for
Stages are 10 games longer this year than last
And I think Atlanta still beats hunters, Atlanta can play crazy right back if they need to.
upper niche
What site is that?
trim shadow
and if atlanta trys to play into the dps meta i think they can outgun jinmu and baconjack
upper niche
I just noticed that if Dallas beat Boston 3-1 they'll be +3, but if they beat them 4-0 they'll be +5 and likely end up tied with not only Toronto, but Philly too if Philly win 3-1. Man, OWL have done a really shit job at considering how they'll manage tiebreaks :/
vale pond
why is everyone so in love with spitfire
they arent even that good this stage
shanghai deserves to be there far more than them
or at least chengdu, spark, fuel, glads or someone that isnt london
they are overrated honestly
trim shadow
shanghai wouldve been in if they didnt c9 the first match against dallas
and then disapear the rematch
and with the win over london
they wouldve gotten a nice seed
trim shadow
shanghai is 2-4 i think
vale pond
shanghai beat london
so both are 3-4 then
my bad but still
shanghai has consistently played better
vale pond
eh
trim shadow
dallas has to beat boston to stay in
reign have to win out and win in dominant fashion
paris is pretty much eliminated
and guangzhou is on the chopping block
vale pond
this is so whack
trim shadow
somehow the gladiators ARE STILL FIGHTING despite no matches this week
vale pond
they should also think about play quality and schedule difficulty
regardless my stance on london stands
if not shanghai then another team
shanghai will shine later
trim shadow
probably stage 2 after a meta shift
cause diem looks like he can only go up in terms of performance
vale pond
and they'll be able to play dding and geguri at the same time then
which will only be beneficial
upper niche
SHD are 3-4
vale pond
ye ik
upper niche
@trim shadow It's sooooo stupid the way OWL display the rankings - GLA can go up 4 spots despite playing no games.
vale pond
and the fact that nothing external is considered
trim shadow
map differental looks all over the place on the website
sparck and below are basically eliminated
eve if the eternal wins both games there not getting a shot
both games 4-0 3-1
inland pawn
https://twitter.com/bellasuzakko/status/1104970002271105025 Chengdu Weebers
Twitter
trim shadow
i am a chengdu fan
queen drift
Oof rip coach moon
pearl stratus
If people haven't seen Diem is literally 1 damage/10 minutes lower than Carpe.
Which is cute af.
Carpe is like 11,224
Diem is 11,223.
minor flame
wholesome
supple prism
@upper niche http://owplayoffmachine.com/
upper niche
Ta. Saves me writing one because I was going to write one myself 😄
@trim shadow The website sorts by games played being lower being better than wins.
The rules don't agree with that interpretation at all - but for some reason the website/app does it that way. So a team with 2-2 -1 will appear higher than a team with 2-3 +1. It's completely incorrect, but they do it anyway, and who the fuck knows why. Probably some American "this is how we understand how to run sport, when the rest of the world does it differently" or something.
Like the way they can't just explain the first set of finals as "elimination final" but instead they have to describe it as this spaghetti of "we play these games, then we re-seed, blah blah" WHAT THE FUCK GUYS, you just overcomplicated the fuck out of it for exactly the same result. Don't get me started on having 'Atlantic' and 'Pacific' divisions.
trim shadow
Im just suprised they havent fixed how map differental is displayed on the app/website
And added in details like clenched and eliminated and who needs what to get in or s certain set of wins
upper niche
I'd rather just have a chronological list of the game history for a team in the teams profile, so I can see every team they've played and the scores, rahter than having to scroll week by week. Not hard, it's all in the json file.
heh, in fact my ICS calendar generator would already do that for you if you were happy to have the data in ICS format.
gilded peak
The week by week calendar on the app is just plain horrible.
trim shadow
I looked at it once and vowed to never do it again
frosty marsh
Sorry if this is against the rules but i would appreciate it if you guys could help me out by voting for SUNY Oswego to be apart of the NYXL spring rally collegiate overwatch tournament, only the top 16 voted schools are allowed in https://springrally.nyxl.gg/oswego
sullen berry
@upper niche not sure if you've noticed, they get really technical about tiebreakers affecting teams that never face each other
It should just mean we have tiebreaker matches which could be on some really sketchy scheduling the following week to tie in with brackets
upper niche
I've certainly noticed and am familiar with the rules re ties - but ultimately with the way stages are now the tiebreak scenarios will amost never happen.
The rules are very specific about in most cases you having to play the other team during that stage - so we're nearly always going to go to a tiebreak match.
And because there's only 7 matches, there's going to be a lot more ties to need to go back to.
TBH the way they break it with head-to-head map wins and then with match diff is stupid. I mean how often is it gonna happen that you have say A vs B being both 5-2-0 over two times they've played each other so they're 1-1 each... it's just such an unlikely scenario that it's not gonna break any ties.
It should have been the other way around - match then map. No team plays each other more than twice this season, so the head to head is either gonna be decided based on one match, or two matches. If one team won both matches, why bother looking at map wins? I suppose you could get a scenario where the matches went 3-1, 2-3, and it would sort that out... but that's about the only time.
fathom acorn
When your coach doesn’t play your best player cause he’s too smart
So he gets fired
upper niche
aha oh, I was joking, turns out yep: https://twitter.com/LAValiant/status/1105188455510761472
Twitter
fathom acorn
We thank him for benching our best player for having high IQ and game sense
We are 0-7
upper niche
Did Moon have some kind of problem with Custa or something? Custa is basicaslly the glue that holds that team together. He's the older, more mature head the team needs to function, regardless of his individual skill.
trim shadow
If u looked at the insight the coaching for the valiant was bad
supple prism
and Korean Mulan
trim shadow
The words we were allowed to here
fathom acorn
Maybe now they won’t be 0-7
upper niche
meh, LDN had some pretty shocking stages last year, look how they turned it around.
trim shadow
Valiant is in disaray itll@be hard to bounce back
queen drift
@upper niche custa "understood the meta too well" to mesh with the team
he was making plays the others didnt understand
thats what moon said
supple prism
then get them to understand
trim shadow
Or be chengdu
vale pond
I dont understand that logic
so he was playing too complicated for the rest of the team?
thats retarded
trim shadow
And thats why he lost his job
hidden vault
Valiant's strategy seems to be firing head coaches whenever the squad does badly
trim shadow
valiant about to turn into the cleveland browns at this rate
balmy wolf
if one person is the leader of the team and the other 5 dont understand what hes saying
i dont see how thats a reflection on the coach's inability to coach for replacing one person instead of 5 people
trim shadow
@hidden vault NFL
balmy wolf
it is however a reflection of the abilities of the team and their adaptability to meta
trim shadow
the cleveland browns had a shot at a world title
but fucked up a play
and the franchise went downards
hidden vault
Did they change their head coach everytime they had a losing streak?
I wonder what will happened if those coaches and players that left stayed instead
upper niche
Firing coaches like that seems really stupid. They should make use of what they've learned doesn't work and needs improving rather than starting over.
supple prism
what if the coach refuses to though?
twin cobalt
Are memes allowed here?
twin cobalt
NVM mods don't allow images here 😭
queen drift
keep in mind these teams have been scrimming for months
this stage may well have been the "trying to make it work" phase
balmy wolf
Well it didn't really work. I think Valiant really need to give up this whole "Kariv on DPS" experiment which they tried in Stage 2 of last season, which was their worst stage, put KSF in place of Kariv on DPS, and put Custa back on main support.
Kariv has even said he prefers playing support over DPS.
Also Agilities really needs to step up his Brig gameplay.
hidden vault
They fired Coach Henry too when Valiant wasn't doing well in Stage 2
Moon seems to be in Favour of Kariv playing dps
Because that's what moon made him practice when he came in
trim shadow
cristo says that the way moon coached he believed in structure
so the enviroement was strict like a dictatorship
and for some reason he believed in teamwork over skill and didnt allow to many players todo individual plays
limber pine
but that makes it seem like GOATs would be a good comp to teach then
queen drift
Noah Winston is too hands on I think
trim shadow
I would expect valiant to hit the trade market hard
queen drift
I mean in terms of their team they’re fine
They don’t have bad players
Kuki is bad but custa is fine
trim shadow
so its prolly moon fault
supple prism
yea lets just blame moon moon
hidden vault
I doubt is kuki's fault though he's a tank player asked to support
They could have just plated custa and ask him not make individual plays
queen drift
If your suggestion starts with ‘they could have just ... ‘ and you think it’s simple in nature, it was thought of before and likely tried
surreal lichen
Unpopular opinion: I’m glad LA Valiant is losing, they were always too SJW-ish for my liking.
queen drift
Okay A) how was an ow team sjw-ish?
B) i think a lot of people are happy they’re losing
sullen berry
C) if you don't love the valiant, why not respect the Gladiators
hidden vault
SJW?? Is Social Justice Warrior??
balmy wolf
Their must be a reason honestly that Kuki is playing Lucio probably some internal issues
hidden vault
Just repect every team lol
sullen berry
The valiant?
Not all orgs who transitioned from Contenders to OW League kept their previous orgs as contenders teams
It's kinda weird that there is inconsistency
Newer orgs (and ones whose reputations went to shit) would just rename themselves their main team's academy
ATL Academy, Uprising academy, Fusion University, GZA
Then you have the other lot of established teams: Team Envy, Team CC and LGE.Huya for China, Gen. G in Korea
night tusk
Moon and Korean Mulan away from Valiant
pearl stratus
There was also some small rumors that Moon was attempting to more 'Korean' the team, hence Kariv over KSF, Kuki over Custa. However thats a huge grain of 
to me. KSF is projectile, and typically your hitscan plays Zarya because it translates better and Kariv/Bunny are the only hitscans.
limber pine
I don't have an issue with Kariv playing Zarya; I just don't think he was a very good one.
my bigger issue (were I to have one) is the whole Custa/Kuki thing
night tusk
I think kuki on lucio was not a good idea but they lost 2 coaches this offseason so that could be a problem to
pearl stratus
Custa getting promoted to head coach.
I joke but I actually don't think I'd be surprised or upset.
The old LAV videos with Gunba and Custa they honesty looked like they shared coaching even though custa played.
pearl stratus
Custa is pretty big brain in general, and I think he's an easy person for people to look up to in terms of his leadership.
He'll end up a coach either way eventually.
Twitter
Makes things more interesting too, btw.
swift moth
night tusk
ye I posted this on reddit
agile fern
kariv is better than soon
night tusk
people say that soon is the reason valiant does bad
soon, the guy who is benched in paris
but forget that besides changing kariv on dps and have a main tank on support that they lost 2 coaches aswell
agile fern
the stats are clear, karivs zarya is better
limber pine
saying Kariv is better than soon is not a particularly good compliment.
and Kariv's zarya is still average at best
agile fern
well on widow and tracer it would be, but I dont think that'd be accurate for kariv
yes, but average is better than 0-7
limber pine
kariv is not the only player on LAV
Agilites, Kariv, and Kuki have been average in this meta
agile fern
kuki below average def
pearl stratus
Kariv has an acceptable Widow, acceptable soldier
His tracer is amazingly mediocre.
Bunny is a better overall dps by miles.
agile fern
I think Kuki's Lucio and understanding GOATs are the main problems by far
pearl stratus
Also Soon is a bot Zarya replaced by Shadowburn. Let that sink in.
So basically you're setting the level of "useless shit" to be better than.
agile fern
I feel like you're being a bit too harsh on soon and sdb
if you look at the stats kariv doesn't look like the problem
pearl stratus
19th in damage, 53rd in final blows, 18th in eliminations, 139th in deaths.
Not that harsh on Soon.
He was a potato Zarya.
He's not Sayaplaya bad at it.
But oof.
agile fern
yes okay
pearl stratus
Shadowburn isn't much better, honestly.
It's just shocking that the EU team would be the one with the weakest Zarya.
agile fern
idk, shadowburn has been in matches they lost while soon was in matches they won, so the stats are hard to compare
night tusk
shadowburn genji was sad 😦
pearl stratus
Nah you can always break it down into the /10 min.
night tusk
I hope for pop off moment
pearl stratus
Thats the equalizer.
Minus the games they got completely rolled in and shouldn't have.
agile fern
if you're losing you still do less damage, die more, have less elims etc. per 10 minutes
pearl stratus
You can still glean some pertinent information with an average. Like look at Decay.
He's been in an equal amount of wins and losses now.
Or Kariv.
He's ONLY had losses.
His damage/10 is still acceptable (dies like crazy though)
agile fern
yea, but sdb also has more damage than soon
pearl stratus
Per 10 yes, but then you compare Elims/Deaths /10 and it stagnates some.
SDB has an atrocious 7 deaths/10 minutes, compared to Soons also atrocious 6.14 deaths/10.
agile fern
yes because Paris got rekt during those matches
pearl stratus
But you were saying Soons stats should be inflated some due to the wins, but Soon still sits at 6 deaths/10.
So even with wins bolstering his stats you can still see he dies. A LOT.
It's like watching a worse Dafran. Dafran still has some of the highest death/10, but his team wins enough he compensates.
Soon can't compensate in other stats.
You can have a high D:10 ratio and still be valuable.
I.E: Fusions/Gamsu.
agile fern
bumper
pearl stratus
Gamsu sits at 6.82 d/10, he still puts in work.
Fusions is at 6.61, still puts in work
Bumper too, is at 6.21 however he's an asterisk.
Because he influences his own Deaths so much trying to do stupid shit.
agile fern
haha yes
pearl stratus
If he didn't randomly bot out like a silver player he'd probably be more in the 4-5 range.
Like Mano is only at 4.3
agile fern
hide to shatter like wtf is this bronze lul
pearl stratus
But in general my comment is even when losing you can still be effective in the other stat categories, even with higher deaths.
Philly has been playing like shit (close record to Paris, tbh)
Carpe still does what he needs to do.
Paris is missing that in their Zarya player.
They just dont' have an effective one.
And it shows in the fact Benbest leads the league in deaths/10.
agile fern
maybe soon or sdb can get gud
pearl stratus
I'm not counting Snillo since he's two-way and probably won't play again.
He also technically only played 7 minutes, so its hard to judge that.
pearl stratus
Hitscans, but primarily Tracer/Sombra.
agile fern
ah
pearl stratus
He's done some widow in contenders as well.
It's weird, on paper there's a case to be made that Jjanu might be better than Meko individually.
In terms of D'va play.
pearl stratus
I don't think we'll ever get a real answer. Moon alluded to it being about Custa being a higher skill level above LAV when it came to Goats.
So he would call more correct, but technical, plays.
And the team couldn't manage it.
Other rumors were around Moon wanting to shift the roster more towards Korean players.
We'll never know 100% for sure, I bet.
agile fern
I feel like that's still better than kuki, who isn't really a shot caller and isn't a good lucio
pearl stratus
It depends really.
3:3 is a team game, 110%. If your team is not synchronized up it can be just as bad as having the better player in.
If Custa is trying to play like.. Moth or Slime, getting those high walls and drop boops
But the team isn't able to follow up and utilize it
He's just at risk constantly.
So you have a team on two pages of the same book, or even a different book.
agile fern
they should've been scrimming that during the break
pearl stratus
As we saw across the board minus a team or two
Almost none of the teams scrimmed effectively minus the Shock.
No one looked comfortable in 3:3.
Look at Londons start.
umbral dawn
Why is bumper suddenly being hated
agile fern
but after that HZ match they fell
agile fern
he's still hiding to shatter etc.
and Chengdu looked OK on goats suddenly
so some people blameed bumper
agile fern
I mean, bumper does need to stop feeding to shatter
umbral dawn
its just bumper doing bumper things
pearl stratus
I don't think he's being hated on.
It was just funny to watch him get Gigachad deep dicked by Ameng for a map or two.
umbral dawn
¯_(ツ)_/¯
pearl stratus
When the one trick Hamster doubles your shatters and just poops on you after being super cocky
Its entertainment.
agile fern
yes
umbral dawn
but suddenly I saw a lot of people calling him trash
pearl stratus
I think it was a clear indicator that individually Bumper isn't impressive.
It's how much his team covers his stupid shit.
umbral dawn
yeah he gets away with his aggressive because of his teammates
pearl stratus
Yeah, it also means he most likely would be useless if you ever wanted to trade him.
Because he himself isn't great.
Just his synergy with his team.
Since a Chengdu Chad gave him the business after being joked as the worst Rein in the league.
umbral dawn
I mean I'm pretty sure Ameng wasn't just a hammond one trick going all throughout his career
pearl stratus
He actually pretty much was. Hammond/Orissa.
umbral dawn
Huh
pearl stratus
He's obviously played Rein, but he was never really known to be all that good at it.
But more than any other region China embraces weird shit.
So they never really had a huge goats phase.
agile fern
goats used to be weird shit tho
pearl stratus
Instead they were playing a lot of 1:3:2, 1:4:1, 2:2:2 still.
pearl stratus
Thats more the EU specialty though
agile fern
Europe likes everything tanky
pearl stratus
China is where you get comps like Ambitious Immortals.
Zarya, Doomfist, Sombra, Ana, Genji, Zen.
One off-tank only.
Doomfist becomes the other tank.
agile fern
doomfist would kinda be played like Hammond in that comp I imagine
pearl stratus
Basically, he'd get most of the resources and dive in. Wreck some shit, then get out.
Then you'd repeat.
agile fern
with zarya bubble too
pearl stratus
Getting dove on by Doom + Genji + Sombra is scary enough.
agile fern
pretty cool
pearl stratus
They went undefeated with it in Open Division to Contenders.
No one really knew what to do with it.
agile fern
if you can't beat them, join them
night tusk
agile fern
nice
pearl stratus
The issue with Doom, in my opinion, was never that he was too strong.
Characters like Doom, Sombra, even Mei to an extent feel extremely powerful because their standard counters are coordination and communication.
Which doesn't exist on 98% of the ladder.
So the hero itself is balanced fine.
The players aren't.
But Blizzard refuses to tell people to just get better.
And sometimes, as a developer, that is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.
I remember when Squareenix did it in their MMO. People were shocked.
"This raid is too hard, you need to nerf it! Whine whine whine."
"We have tested the raid extensively and found it balanced. You should play better and make less mistakes.
Group killed it a week later.
karmic grotto
But nah, blizz had to nerf doomfist
meanwhile sombra unnerfed
Doomfist was completely fine
He had that 7 second cooldown for 2 abilities
people still cry
pearl stratus
That's Sombras balance on ladder
night tusk
what I'm sad about is that in the off season or actually just when ana had nano-boost buff people were like "oh ana will be meta" and now we still see no Ryujehong ana 😦
pearl stratus
She requires coordination and communication to be maximum effective.
I land 5-6 people EMP's all the time.
Still 50/50 on people following up on it.
night tusk
ana only been played when no dva sometimes but is still goats
pearl stratus
Ana has a lot of fundamental weaknesses that makes her hard to slot into comps.
Mobility and fragility being the two major ones.
It's why when we do tend to see her its places with long sight lines or abused verticality to keep her safe from 3:3.
I.E. King's Row A.
agile fern
also against sombragoats sometimes
cuz no d.va to eat heals
god eat heals that sounds weird
trim shadow
anas main weakness is her mobility
fathom acorn
Also the fact that you need to aim
minor flame
Thats kinda like saying McCrees weakness is aiming
night tusk
well the thing is that all hitscan heroes you need aim
but ana is the only one for healing
brig heals automatic when dmg and easily to throw shields, orb easy to use, moira is easy to use, mercy auto-aim, lucio area heal
Bapiste heals with aiming
willow pier
Yeah but it's still aoe
fathom acorn
Baptistes aiming is more forgiving but also harder
Cause you have to get used to the arched shots and the fact he’s a projectile healer
But he also has a slight aoe effect with his shots so it’s more forgiving for a learner
supple prism
Ana is all 3 though, straight projectile, hitscan, and arched projectile.
balmy wolf
and 3 different speeds of projectile too :)
pearl stratus
It's also fun because if you miss a single one its life or death.
Don't hit that sleep dart? u ded.
night tusk
nova wadi
night tusk
oof
gloomy tapir
Oof
night tusk
V
vale pond
@balmy wolf london is an overrated team that lost to an underrated team
night tusk
@balmy wolf I bet money for shanghai and won, but even if I lost it was amazing, the last point, Profit popping off on Hanzo and DIEM
damn that match and Titans 
vs Hunters 
was the best this last week
even lost, I am proud of them
supple prism
many still dont see them beating Reign
night tusk
idk who will win it honestly, but it's because I expect both to work hard in the practice time.
supple prism
you mean Rein
supple prism
uhh no they dont
ha, NYXL only plays 5 different teams next stage
they play fusion twice and reign twice
hidden vault
Nyxl rivals with both teams?
night tusk
I don't think Houston is decent
was close from losing to Valiant
and you could say NYXL aswell but Valiant became worse and worse each time they played xd
queen drift
Overall Houston are worse than valiant
Valiant just have a myriad of problems right now
mint flower
yet Houston is somehow sitting tied for 11th with London
also why have they not cut arhan yet?
they signed him for the tracer, but now they have danteh
who can play tracer and sombra
trim shadow
Cause houston snuck wins
Honestlyp
Houston is suppose to be 1-5
But florida is still a gate keeper team
And hangzhou forgot their keyboards
Reign is suppose to 4-0 both teams
Even tho chengdu is absolutely scary in a dps comp
Nyxl scary
Theyre not gonna get by easy
supple prism
ill allow a 3-1 against both teams though
trim shadow
And as i just said houston is trash but managed to sneak wins
vale pond
Atlanta has their own good dps players
They’ll be able to beat chengdu
That’ll be a fun match
supple prism
Atlanta has their own crazy comp option
vale pond
Torb
trim shadow
Nlaeer and erster will pop off
I think after dafran cracked he wont get much play time
supple prism
an option that actually works against hunters standard
trim shadow
I hope dafran didnt quit we need him in the next cancer meta
vale pond
I never heard anything about him
trim shadow
He basically did nothing against the gladiators
vale pond
He seemed fine after losing to glads
vale pond
He had a bad game k
he admitted that they needed to improve after that
on stream
His mindset is in the right place
he just had a bad game which happens
I just want to see him play torb sym bastion
mint flower
he also had that really stupid warning for touching the camera...
trim shadow
I jus want stage playoffs to start at this point
mint flower
same
queen drift
What warning?