gloomy tapir
y would u ever want to get boosted
#esports-discussion
limber pine
Boost epeen
sullen berry
I too want to follow squiggly swooggity Vancouver Yetis
dusky tinsel
Man the Koreans go hard on their sign game
native parcel
who is a fan of dynasty
queen drift
Atlanta Reign? That's fantastic
ashen gull
thick umbra
When does OWL season 2 start?
karmic grotto
Bisexual? Is this some sort of big news?
torpid charm
@thick umbra February 14th!
mint fable
👀
thick umbra
Thanks man!
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
mint fable
🌈
torpid charm
There we go
thick umbra
What does undefined Atlanta mean? Have that not announced what the team will be called?
torpid charm
No, I think it’s just because they don’t have an emote set up next to the name yet
thick umbra
Ahh
sullen berry
Emojis haven't been uploaded yet
gaunt acorn
that's not on us
thick umbra
No stress
gaunt acorn
@sudden steppe that's not something this channel is for
sudden steppe
Sorry
light perch
karmic grotto
F
sullen berry
When you ask your local barista for a GZ Latte
gusty kernel
Is it still possible to grind up from 3k to an amateur level? (E.g top of open division level) Projectile player
queen drift
ye
magic zinc
I'd say no tbh unless you started playing the game a week ago
swift jungle
!schedule
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
balmy wolf
Plz someone who plays on ps4 tell me if I need ps4 plus to play Overwatch please :'(
balmy wolf
@queen drift wut?
balmy wolf
Oh.. Lol
glass gyro
Yeah, you can't play overwatch at all without ps plus
jagged crater
they put 2 OWL peeps in the yule log so far, esports marketing confirmed
sullen berry
Who did I miss
I'm not surprised something more obvious didn't appear on stream like a proper plug for season 2
sullen berry
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvIcai0VYAAM-LO.jpg monte got his own christmas reading stream
open mesa
noice
sullen berry
slow walrus
instant nut
queen drift
Atlanta gonna have one of the highest merch incomes from Dafran alone 😂
upper niche
until they realise having one good player doesn't win matches.
Then they'll pay a ton for, say... jjonak
sullen berry
it's not for sale just yet
but it should be relieving that all season 2 jerseys will remain the same apart from valiant and fusion home jerseys
light perch
hidden vault
Is it allowed to advertise our own videos here
merry hamlet
I want to watch owl in person when it starts up again
karmic grotto
You mean, going to the LAN in person?
I am excited if they come with world cup viewer for OWL S2
So, why exactly is sinatraa worth 150k?
hidden vault
Best American Tracer?
queen drift
Mostly his age and ability ~1 year ago
He isn’t worth that much now imo
But at 17 and one of the top tracer players in the world he had huge potential
sullen berry
Still has, I think this is going to be a long road to redemption if he's going to stick with his tracer junkrat brig and zarya
Unrelated but Uprising community is an oof when they don't see whats coming to them
karmic grotto
LOL
whole quiver
i heard that owl is quite boring. Is it true?
pearl stratus
@karmic grotto Also at this point 150k may not even be considered high. He's one of... three? players to have his salary leaked.
karmic grotto
I'd agree with that
pearl stratus
The other I know of off the bat is Decay, which was 300k/yr, and it was brought up in passing that all of NYXL is over 6 figures.
karmic grotto
logical
nyxl
bit decay, still a mystery
Haven't seen much of him
What team is he again?
pearl stratus
I mean his presence in the T2 scene isn't a mystery, you can wach his old KDP vods.
He was picked up with Roar for LAG.
karmic grotto
I'm going to search for his videos then
pearl stratus
If you want updates on like... half the new signings in the OWL just watch the Korean Contender finals of Runaway vs. Kongdoo Panthera.
Since that translates to Vancouver vs. Shanghai Dragons + LAG.
Also just an all round insane game.
I have one ladder clip of Decay saved.
sullen berry
@hidden vault two-way to what, Toronto esports? 
Fusions is in Uprising on a two-way contract
He gets play time in the league and the Uprising Academy
That's the name Boston gave it, a lame effort but gave players a home away from the CEO who kicked a fit with Toronto Defiant
Nero and Onlywish moved to GZ and are now getting ready to scrim Seoul 
*Tomorrow
karmic grotto
Tomorrow?
torpid charm
sullen berry
Pacific Showdown can go two ways, as expected with decent practice against one of the strongest comeback Pacific rosters or give Charge some credibility if Dynasty pulls a B roster on them
sullen berry
@gaunt acorn her adventures continue whenever she is there to write about it.
XiaoTutu: Have you encountered any cultural conflicts? If so, how could you resolve them?
Kyb: there are indeed many differences but I’m getting used to it. I love all my teammates, especially Chara. I believe I can resolve the conflicts if I encounter.
XiaoTutu (To Chara): do you love Kyb?
Chara: ofc I love him.
umbral iron
Can someone tell me in how many hour the P Challenge is
Im in GMT and according to google its already happened?
sullen berry
Come back on 14 hours from now, you should be 26 minutes early so long as broadcast is timed right
umbral iron
Thank you
sullen berry
!players hunters
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
karmic grotto
23 mins we have that match?
full lily
!players defiant
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
pearl stratus
Going to be super interesting to see if rumors/scrims come true.
And Fissure is the bench tank for Seoul.
ruby pendant
@pearl stratus You sure Fissure is bench tank? Thought he left his original OWL team because he had lack of playing time or wasn't a starter?
pearl stratus
Current scrims/rumors have him on the bench right now because the two new kids have really good cohesion.
Marve1 + Michelle
Iirc.
RHJ also rumored to be benched for Jecse.
Since Jecse is a shotcaller/leader.
Current roster is (rumored) to be:
Marvel - Tank
Michelle - Offtank
Munchkin - DPS
Fleta - DPS
Jecse - Mainish Support
Gido - Flex Support.
somber arrow
!players fuel
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
jovial plover
!tracer
somber yewBOT
@jovial plover, I've sent you a DM with all my commands!
warm venture
When will SOnicFox start playing Overwatch and solo carry Shanghai to victory?
gaunt acorn
sullen berry
A real fighter like Rangchu would be a great candidate 
fringe kestrel
!players gladiators
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
sullen berry
PACIFIC SHOWDOWN IS HERE 
https://www.twitch.tv/seouldynasty_2
sullen berry
@karmic grotto @umbral iron @pearl stratus
karmic grotto
pearl stratus
Interesting to see I was right.
Fissure is benched
RHJ instread of Gido is interesting, same with Zunba over Michelle.
Rio playing a LOT better than I expected.
sullen berry
Epic win gamers
and if they did decide to put fissure in
I would expect Rise to come forth in place of Shu
pearl stratus
Fissure probably doesn't mesh honestly.
He's too... take control. Jecse calls
Confused to see RHJ instead of Gido though. Was expecting Gido's Lucio to be used like scrims.
sullen berry
a reminder this is way too early to call it
the last time dynasty got to play on stage as a team was back in July
!players justice
somber yewBOT
Developed with LOVE by MoonFire
pearl stratus
No he wasn't. Gido is still on Dynasty.
Wait fuck
I mean Tobi
The support who mattered.
pearl stratus
I did, definitely. I meant Tobi.
Tobi has been running in scrims over RHJ because of his Lucio.
sullen berry
I expect tobi & fissure would be starting if this wasn't an exhibition match
pearl stratus
Nah Marvel + Michelle have been doing ALL the scrims.
Thats why I'm confused.
Apparently they have really good cohesion together.
sullen berry
Nero doesn't turn 18 until stage 3 next year
at the very least this would be Nero and Kyb's time to shine as much as it is for Eileen
pearl stratus
I think Eileen is just more proven versatile.
Kybs not bad, but his pick up after the OWWC is based just off of Goats really.
So integrating him will probably take longer.
If they plan to flex out
sullen berry
they can only practice and run with GOATs, it seems
it will look like they have optimized their team strats around the bellum core well
pearl stratus
Yeah, smart.
sullen berry
watching old VODs of season 2 where they had Envy fill was a good lesson in what made them consistent
you can learn fast with GOATs
pearl stratus
MB as a core means less overall practice needed.
You're only adding a few people as opposed to 6.
pearl stratus
Doesn't Happy have a suspension to start the season, too?
pearl stratus
Oh, thats not bad then
sullen berry
which would be all of week 1
pearl stratus
No one expects much out of them for week 1 anyway.
sullen berry
previous punishments for boosters who join season 2 are considered when they give out punishments
GZ is up against 
and 
first week games look to be all out so I can't fret them winning either matches
pearl stratus
They'll be 50/50 against Chengdu I'd say.
I don't expect them to do well against Runaway.
Because their core never did, lol
Munchkin is a better Zarya than I expected. Still sad to see the DPS not flexing to D'va though in their roster situation
That was a huge shatter.
sullen berry
fat shatter 
pearl stratus
I think there's a few teams where it might have been worth it to have dps to grind out d'va over zarya.
Houston and Seoul specifically, maybe Shanghai.
sullen berry
rip seagull
the investment was truly worth it, so long he carries on his ladder career
pearl stratus
Shanghai, if they keep Geguri in the line up, have interesting goats chances.
pearl stratus
They have what.. 3 D'vas technically?
sullen berry
whose the third ?
pearl stratus
I know two people on KDP played her, one primarily the other a back up.
I just rip Diya. I want him playing
limber pine
i miss dps players playing dps
pearl stratus
I mean, that too. I don't mind the Zarya flex, but yeah.
Okay. Marvel showing why he put pressure on Fissures spot this map
limber pine
i don't mind the Zarya flex either, but it kills me a little on the inside to see fleta and eileen on Brigitte
pearl stratus
I don't want it to go back to Widow forever though
sullen berry
becuase you could flat out ignore picks so gimmicky that sym and torb would never be a regular threat to counter in pro scene
I'm not huge on the tracer meta, either
as magnificent as it has been for boston nyxl spitfire and snillo
pearl stratus
I want the fucked up chinese contenders comps, like the AI comp which only used a single Off-tank.
karmic grotto
...
pearl stratus
Ambitious Immortals comp was hilariously fun to watch.
Doomfist, Genji, Sombra, Zarya, Ana, Zen.
sullen berry
it could be done against chengdu vs chinese rosters, unlikely due to lack of chinese cores
pearl stratus
Such a weird ass comp.
karmic grotto
if it works, then it works
pearl stratus
They went undefeated in Contenders for that season.
Yeah.
It definitely worked, lol
karmic grotto
Torb 😦
sullen berry
but not without mercy
pearl stratus
I think we'll see a few occurances of Sym/Bastion/Orissa post buffs.
karmic grotto
I don't see Reaper, Torb or Symmetra in owl
pearl stratus
Because its honestly a really solid core map dependent.
sullen berry
brig slamming into shield with no stuns
karmic grotto
xD
sullen berry
pearl stratus
Bastions buff was so minimal, but so big at the same time. It's very interesting.
sullen berry
the chinese stream does not miss this set of ads
sullen berry
come preseason matches, if a date for that has been confirmed yet
pearl stratus
It was, its only like 4 days of matches.
karmic grotto
something like exhibition matches?
sullen berry
a season 2 preseason
karmic grotto
c'mon, wanna see ATL one 😦
pearl stratus
I'm so glad they'll be making the change to twitch chat prior to that.
So Twitch Chat can't get retarded when Dafran is on the bench for most of the game.
karmic grotto
is he giid
sullen berry
have to wait and see 
chinese stream also confirming he's not old enough to play in the first 2 stages
karmic grotto
xD
sullen berry
it's like watching soe and miro casting in another timeline
karmic grotto
is it good cast?
sullen berry
I don't understand fluent chinese
pearl stratus
Okay, so this is the scrim line up they were running a lot
sullen berry
but it works
karmic grotto
lolollol
sullen berry
WHERE IS DC 
karmic grotto
^^^
sullen berry
limber pine
at the bottom
sullen berry
best of the worst
pearl stratus
Uber has to have an erection for casting DC games though.
karmic grotto
SD now gonna be seriously
pearl stratus
100% we're going o get a lot of Uber lines like "Well Justice was served today. But not how they wanted."
karmic grotto
RIP GZC
sullen berry
I want to hear him cast Charge v Hunters for the Garry callout
put him in and he will be far too excited to cast them
pearl stratus
We need a team to change a bunch of names to Aussie terms for Uber.
Dingo, Macca, Groggo, Thongs
queen drift
Can he not just cast every game
limber pine
chara plays so aggressive
pearl stratus
But RHJ never loooked this good on Zen in all of Season 1
pearl stratus
Fissure not looking great.
pearl stratus
That Mystery Heroes
supple prism
this is all goats isnt it
limber pine
so far
pearl stratus
I think they're on an old patch, no? I thought that got mentioned.
supple prism
one patch behind i think i heard?
pearl stratus
Any patches behind you don't run anything but Goats if you want to win on maps like these.
limber pine
i don't think this has brigitte nerfs does it?
still stuns through shields?
I haven't noticed
pearl stratus
I don't think so - I can't really tell.
We haven't seen an Ashe at all, and she's actually in a solid spot for some of the maps plyed.
Which makes me think its behind a noticeable bit
It's most likely on the Contenders Client, I'd bet.
sullen berry
does anyone on either teams want to reveal their ashe playstyle?
pearl stratus
Munchkin is way better on Zarya than I expected, which isn't -that- surprising since Tracer works over to Zarya pretty welll
sullen berry
his zarya has been owl ready for a while
supple prism
cant find what patch it is anywhere
sullen berry
it's never looked this good in a while
pearl stratus
Looking at the play style I really do think its on the Contenders client.
Which is pre-Ashe, pre-Brig Nerfs.
limber pine
makes sense
karmic grotto
no
it's the patch of Ashe
I was it in the beginning
One of the players of GZC before starting the fight showed Ashe
limber pine
hm
karmic grotto
It's the pre-Brig patch
sullen berry
doomfist still viable
pearl stratus
Bring back Team China.
sullen berry
the lil uprising logo 
pearl stratus
I think he died first.
limber pine
rjh too early
sullen berry
Paradise City strikes again
You know they had to do it again
pause and have to consequentially reset
visual glen
RIP Guangzhou's momentum
sullen berry
after showing their hand
limber pine
lol
karmic grotto
stop pausing the game when youre losing
sullen berry
well this is one way they're handling the high intensity stress
a bit dodgy but it seems to work
visual glen
RIGGED KAPP
pearl stratus
Eh he was the first pause when they were winning too though
karmic grotto
RIGGED
sullen berry
HERE WE GO
karmic grotto
hahahahhahahaha
pearl stratus
Pausing to fuck up his own momentum
sullen berry
why is he wearing the earphones underneath the headset, isn't that a bit of a hardware concern
this broadcast has basically smoothed itself out
supple prism
you are playing toontown?
pearl stratus
Two audio inputs maybe?
karmic grotto
This is not fun
visual glen
KR production
sullen berry
I have discord running on another PC since I'm not at my apartment
pearl stratus
Voice option from earphones, game sounds on headset
supple prism
i miss toontown
sullen berry
I thought I was the only one who did that to work around lack of audio mic
I used a separate laptop at one point to offload CPU usage
limber pine
if I'm gz i wouldn't be happy
sullen berry
they're still going though
karmic grotto
Me neither Sprite
sullen berry
hotba would be piffed
pearl stratus
Ah you think GZ can't win
sullen berry
no
karmic grotto
They can draw
visual glen
Seoul gotta win at their own event one way or another 
karmic grotto
And maybe win if they don't pause
sullen berry
they never had the production capacity to increase their chances of winning
karmic grotto
Or else RIGGED
pearl stratus
I mean if they need a tech error to win
I guess GZ is pretty shit
😛
Confirmed.
sullen berry
Endo gets it
karmic grotto
Or seoul is shit
sullen berry
I'm telling you
sullen berry
it was all part of the exhibition
pearl stratus
A pause doesn't make a Zen get caught out on a super obvious D'va bomb, thats just new players.
karmic grotto
Round 4 was completed of Hanamura
karmic grotto
Finally not Goats?
gaunt acorn
big hamster
sullen berry
karmic grotto
They didn't think of that or else they could have gone Hitscan but no
Spawn advantage
sullen berry
Fissure on Hammond
visual glen
The DPS category still exists!?
pearl stratus
Seoul: "They have a white kid on the roster. Bring out a comp that requires communication."
sullen berry
or Hammond as Fissure?
pearl stratus
Oh hey. Fits coming in too
karmic grotto
No Hammond needed
sullen berry
are you kidding
pearl stratus
Seoul just playing their entire roster.
karmic grotto
And they almost lost
sullen berry
Hammond delivers on volskaya
pearl stratus
GZ being racist and not playing Kyb.
sullen berry
that would be my fave map to watch coming into the rego season
karmic grotto
Kyb still not playing?
sullen berry
imagine kyb's brig > eileen > nero
karmic grotto
Why he not playing?
pearl stratus
Honest guess is he's a weak link like Nero atm.
karmic grotto
Why have player signed, and doesn't play
limber pine
everybody's not obligated to play
sullen berry
Kyb don't go full mendo
pearl stratus
And they want to put on a good show.
sullen berry
this the is most pop i've seen MB since contenders
gained 3k viewers in the last half hour I swear
karmic grotto
Finally
pearl stratus
GZ confirmed not racist.
limber pine
there yah go
karmic grotto
He has not makeup
pearl stratus
He's also probably just exhausted. He only got to GZ like.. four days ago iirc.
Thats a huge adjustment
pearl stratus
Interesting comps show up on Rt66.
karmic grotto
Where the hell is Dorado?
sullen berry
path to their first team W is looking pretty steep
pearl stratus
If we get Quad DPS I'll be happy.
karmic grotto
Eichenwalde
pearl stratus
Also shut up Achillios.
karmic grotto
Busan
pearl stratus
Stormquake didn't do 4 DPS first.
T1W did it like three weeks prior in Chinese Contenders.
gaunt acorn
limber pine
giggity
pearl stratus
You need the Orissa not a Hammond.
pearl stratus
Orissa sustains with her shift.
karmic grotto
Seoul dynasty
pearl stratus
Hammond doesn't.
sullen berry
I'd be having fits if I were Seoul coaches
visual glen
Bye bye DPS
pearl stratus
They adjusted badly.
If they'd adjusted to a Widow Goats, or Double Sniper with Dive tanks
They would have been fine.
It's a triangle on Route 66.
4 dps > Goats > Dive > 4 dps
karmic grotto
Kyb
gaunt acorn
seoul feed
sullen berry
to think ashe was going to be a problem for quad dps
fits makes munchkin look like a god
pearl stratus
If Fissure stays Hammond over Orissa this is going to be the same result.
Most likely.
karmic grotto
For real
Could have seen less goats
And maybe only Winston
To counter Genji and Widow
sullen berry
Shu the lad
pearl stratus
Nah, 4 DPS works best with an Orissa because she can self sustain really well and makes a good ress target.
sullen berry
pause in 60 seconds
karmic grotto
And use trans when u have like 1 min left
That trans could have saved his team
Literally
pearl stratus
Tobi charges Barrier so damn fast.
sullen berry
seoul won't be beating Charge's time
karmic grotto
Oh God
pearl stratus
Nah too stubborn and honestly Fissure isn't great.
sullen berry
dynasty overrated
pearl stratus
Not overrated, his playstyle and stubbornness isn't good outside of dive.
Like Route 66 was kind of Dynasty B Team.
Fits in for Munchkin, Fissure, no Jecse.
karmic grotto
sullen berry
they could make that comeback into the playoffs but they look like they're catching back up to the synergy expected of them from season 1
pearl stratus
They played cleanly the first three maps. They just played everyone.
That won't happen in OWL.
pearl stratus
But for exhibition it makes sense.
karmic grotto
Yes
sullen berry
way to end on a high note
sullen berry
this was designed to be a win-win
pearl stratus
I think when they get a settled roster Seoul can be solid.
pearl stratus
I do think it will end up as Marvel, Michelle/Zunba, Munchkin, Fleta, Jecse, RHJ/Tobi.
sullen berry
I feel validated
pearl stratus
Fits and Fissure will probably be benched unless meta swaps.
sullen berry
they have the skill ceiling to be at or above philly fusion levels of glory
pearl stratus
Seoul has one huge advantage going into Season 2 imo.
karmic grotto
?
pearl stratus
They've gone above and far beyond in terms of taking care of their players with Gen. G.
Their player support is going to be the benchmark for the rest of the league.
So they're best set to combat burn out, etc.
sullen berry
aww ye to the GZ schedule for week 1
v 
v 
karmic grotto
Hopefully not Goats
karmic grotto
pearl stratus
Envy, despite not having the Envy players anymore, is a brawling team.
Its what they do best.
Chengdu doesn't have a main tank really.
So I expect we'll see some interesting stuff from them.
Hopefully.
v 
karmic grotto
Why?
sullen berry
not sure if this VOD is going to be saved
in case I want to watch the whole thing with English casters, RIP
visual glen
pearl stratus
It wasn't a bad match, I think Seoul made their roster impossible to figure out since it changed so much map to map lol
The only constant was Fleta, which you already knew.
sullen berry
same could be said for GZ, despite the rigid tank line
sullen berry
Shu and Rise
sullen berry
I'm going to need the stats from first week of games to tell them apart
karmic grotto
Shu and Rise main the same heroes?
sullen berry
Zen 
pearl stratus
Rise is more aggressive and Trans better. I'm 99% certain it will be him. Chara needs to calm down though.
Better teams will take advantage of his lucios aggression.
sullen berry
I think so too
stats might lean towards Rise given indications he is the jjonak of the support line
though I would look at Shu for the majority of the season
pearl stratus
Shu can grow into the position when he gets more cohesion.
But you can see he's disjointed atm
sullen berry
on the plus side
karmic grotto
Kyb better as brig
pearl stratus
They have different hero pools past the Brigitte.
sullen berry
you won't see him playing for half the season
pearl stratus
Kyb is the better Brig though
karmic grotto
^
pearl stratus
But thats expected from an EU kid.
karmic grotto
LOL
pearl stratus
Especially from Team UK.
karmic grotto
EU Goats > other
sullen berry
they clearly showed they can mix it up with the best
pearl stratus
Thats because EU can literally only play Goats.
sullen berry
Route 66 was the biggest flex comp
pearl stratus
They're not exactly an innovative strategic area.
We didn't see all of GZ's people though.
Not sure if Onlywish was just not there, etc.
sullen berry
between quad-dps/goats/something
just look at their roster
I don't think it was routine of them if OW was available to sub as main healer
pearl stratus
Eh you would have played him, potentially, on 66 where you'd want a Mercy Main for their comps.
sullen berry
Chara did alright on Mercy, not sure given the intensity of the match how Onlywish might have fared
random mango
Are there any amateur Overwatch leagues? Or ladders? Like caleague.com , cevolved.com, and twl back in the day?
fluid tundra
Overwatch Open Division is the best one for it now lol
upper niche
The problem is that Blizzard have designed OW to support their leagues and not give anyone else the tools to run competing leagues :/
hidden vault
Activision may have a play in it
queen drift
MonkaS
mint turtle
@balmy wolf you should delete that and repost it in video content before a mod bans you 
supple prism
why would you give tools to someone to compete with you in your own game?
sullen berry
the reason behind closing APEX the moment OW League was about to start in 2018 due to multiple factors besides the "tools" needed to keep it running?
forest raven
Twitter
ruby pendant
So much Overwatch burnout!
sullen berry
Mistakes on motivation: “I don’t think that a player who loses the motivation to play the game should be in the Overwatch League.”
looks pretty accurate to me
jagged crater
feels BAD man
gotta give props to mistakes for being a last minute dps flex replacement and contributing to the first perfect stage
balmy wolf
what team did mistakes play on?
torpid charm
Boston Uprising
balmy wolf
ah ok
i feel bad for the overwatch league players there lives are miserable
im looking forward to joining the contenders
jagged crater
if you're a starter for a good team, then you got it good
otherwise if you're like permabench (and depending on team) it kinda sucks
but still much better than being on a t2 team cuz at least you got a salary
untold forge
Who Won Seoul Or GZ
torpid charm
Wasn’t it a tie
pearl stratus
It was a tie. Probably wouldn't have been if they hadn't subbed in Fissure.
Fissure bench tank.
frozen phoenix
xqc is gold nova 1 lol
mint turtle
It's almost like he doesn't play CSGO or heroes that require aim in ow 
supple prism
xqc? he even admitted his aim is shit
balmy wolf
he doesnt have aim but he has god tier game sense
and his mechanics on heroes is amazing
aim =/= mechanics
supple prism
yea
balmy wolf
xqc's mechanics more than make up for his lack of aim
frozen bluff
hidden vault
pearl stratus
@sullen berry We were right - Fissure played all of map 3 without sound lol. The bose noise cancelling they wear under the headset wasn't charged.
limber pine
That's stupid
sullen berry
@pearl stratus lmao they were stage headphones 🎧
pearl stratus
The map 4 one was for a keyboard issue apparently
sullen berry
dusky tinsel
this whole hero ban discussion is a bit of a mess eh lads
upper niche
sorry what? Hero ban?
dusky tinsel
r/competitiveoverwatch is getting moist over the idea of hero banning
because GOATS
it's a bit daft
upper niche
who the fuck is gonna ban heros? Private comps? It sure as hell won't happen in public or OWL/Contenders.
upper niche
People want a lot of things. Blizzard don't listen to community, haven't they figured that out by now?
Ask 5 OW players what changes they want and you'll get 7 conflicting opinions.
limber pine
I find it hard to believe that pros want that much uncertainty in their gameplay.
bans are a bandaid fix
upper niche
If anyone who's actually a pro calling for this though, or is this just /r/subredditdrama?
I do agree they've got 8 weeks to figure something out, cos they can't start a professional league with things in this state or it'll be a mockery... but having heroes in a game and saying "but you can't pick that one" isn't the right solution.
ruby pendant
would it really matter if they left things the way they are. They've done this before.
harsh sleet
supple prism
really?
sullen berry
every time I see a recurring fix to the game, whether its role queue or hero bans
I just see the community cannibalise itself trying to justify which side of the argument is stronger
“This is a fucking FPS. I can’t believe it.” — Pine [losing to GOATs], 2018
I think it's in the league's best interest to broadcast it, let the outspoken treat like its some sort of dumpster fire
but in my opinion
team fights seem visually more easier to spectate and want to broadcast the current metagame as is
hidden vault
Hero ban goes against what blizzard wants in the 1st place
Freedom of choosing your own hero
upper niche
There's another crazy way they could handle hero 'bans': Teams take turns picking heroes that go in to their team pool. Once a hero is picked, it's out of the selectable pool. So no mirror matches, ever.
sullen berry
i thought that the whole time the argument was to exclude heros for "more strategic play"
it's not unlike a company growing as large as activision blizzard to really go against their original ideal
upper niche
It would completely and utterly change the way Overwatch is played, but it could lead to an equally good game.
sullen berry
they'd need to be sold to shit by the activision stakeholders (??) to even be encouraged to do that
they are after all, the same ones who would have financial interests in a Mobile Diablo spinoff game
upper niche
The reality is that right now, they're up shit Creek. They're wanting to run a professional gaming league as big as Australias NRL, a half billion dollar a year league, two months out and it's almost universally agreed that the state of the game is not good, irrespective of HOW they think it's broken.
sullen berry
OW League can without a doubt claim two successes from season 1
the feasibility to make it a playable team sport on a global scale
and the production value and media/merchandise that businesses and viewers would like to invest in
unsurprisingly
the game being unhealthy or the toxic behaviour/gaming practices at large
upper niche
Maybe. I would love to see it be successful, I've been involved in helping get esports off the ground since the late 90s, but their viewer figures were woefully unsustainable.
sullen berry
that doesn't exclusively already exist in other games make it good for A/B
@upper niche good on you for getting involved
I'm on the edge of getting more engaged and encouraging my broze-plat players here to get more into the league, though I've learned 90% is on Blizzard's part to get us into it
upper niche
Notsomuch anymore. But in my time I did my bit with CPL and WCG. Both now defunct organisations.
sullen berry
I've only ever known esports in its heyday through sleepers that were melee tournaments and TWT for tekken when I heard about our local scene
OW League is looking for that snowball in mainstream popularity
and by their own metrics
they succeeded on the NA front
the chinese expansion teams should end up being the type of viewership and massive market they really need to secure a season 3
some skewed viewership stats I still see OWL as a top 3 premier league esport
upper niche
The Chinese market is an interesting angle. But I still feel the league just doesn't get international sports. They're trying to ram the American way of doing things down everyone's throat.
They incapable of seeing any other way to do things than their way, and expecting a world market to buy it. They won't.
Also, noone addressing the scheduling elephant. Only 12% of games successfully fit in to their allocated 2 hour timeslot last season, and they're going to try to run four, not three back to back games in 90 minute timeslots with no changes to the match format.
upper niche
... I just said that.
Why do I suddenly feel like David Duchovny in Zoolander?
hasty jackal
What r u guys talking about now
sullen berry
@upper niche oh right I misread that as 2 hours this season
perhaps shaving off the 30s off the waiting time before the start of each map has saved them that much time 
pearl stratus
On a random tangent there's a lot of pros that are for hero bans, some that are against. Most of the ones against tend to have a limited hero pool or are very close to one tricking.
The biggest issue is the ban system thing isn't flushed out and everyone is attempting to take a side, which is relatively stupid.
You can customize a ban system pretty intricately across the board, but people are jumping on the yes or no bandwagon without getting a guideline of how it would be done which is dangerous.
Also at this point I believe nearly every other professional e-game has a ban system if they have a hero system. Dota, LoL, Paladins (LOL), R6 Siege.
I personally think if it was thought out properly and had very strict guidelines the ban system could be really effective. Ideas that I've heard that I liked were: "Bans for heroes are for one map, once per series. If you ban D'va in Map 2, she may no longer be banned for the remaining maps" This stops freezing a character out, and makes it a much more 'strategic option' because you have to really decide when you want to do it. The other option I've heard I liked is that 'Main Tank, Flex Tank, Main Support, Flex Support are limited to one banned character per map per role'. I.E you can't just ban both Rein+Winston. Or D'va + Zarya. Just the one. This helps limit the pressure you put on those players to need to flex to unorthodox roles, hopefully limiting practice time needed. There will always be a main tank available, etc. Always a defensive ult available (to prevent Lucio+Zen bans).
limber pine
Agree with all of that. Overwatch allows hero switching at will, so a ban system based around games that don't do that won't work.
pearl stratus
Yeah, you can't just copy other games. But you can customize it out a lot.
You also have to role restrict bans because of the current hero pool.
I think each team getting bans at a 1:20 ratio seems about right for OW.
1 ban per 20 heroes.
pearl stratus
Not explained well each team gets 1 ban at 20, 2 at 40. So right now I'd say two bans per map.
Yeah 1 per team per 20.
limber pine
ah
pearl stratus
The one thing I will freely admit is a ban system does fuck over players like Spree.
But at the end of the day do we want specialists? It's a hard argument.
I'd say on average specialists all failed in S1. And if you look at pick ups for Season 2 everyone has relatively large hero pools.
The games pulling away from that either way at the pro level (minus D'vas)
limber pine
and it's hard to say there are dva specialists because the necessity for dva's
there were Mercy specialists most of stage 1
pearl stratus
Yeah, its a necessary one trick. Most of them can all play other things.
limber pine
*season 1
pearl stratus
But you'd rarely not want a D'va.
I think bans at the practical level would be nice because even if we get relatively constant mirrors, we'd get constant different comps based on the ban.
At the pro level. For ladder? I think the ban thing can be hit or miss.
limber pine
bans on the ladder would mean a completely different thing than pros
pearl stratus
Yeah, because there's legit "one trick or throw" people on ladder.
So you'd increase toxicity as much as you increase people switching.
Though at least Blizz Korea is doing their job.
They just punished what.. 19k people for that stuff?
limber pine
yeah somewhere around there
pearl stratus
@limber pine https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/abk4rr/a_complete_analysis_of_hero_bans_and_why_its_too/ I didn't realize ioStux summed it up really well too (no actual ban system ideas though)
sullen berry
Your earlier comment is precisely what Gunba was talking about too
pearl stratus
Eh I didn't agree with Gunba's article, I actually felt he gave us better reasoning FOR bans than against it.
I do agree just jumping in with an opinion wthout a system isn't good, but his reaction was on a non-system too.
I think, provided with a concise rule book for banning, Gunba would be swapped to pro very easily though since he's an analytical person.
sullen berry
I was happy and a little surprised to have his input at length, coaches have just as much weight co-ordinating their teams
when they are looking at it from the player's perspective
and managing them effectively
pearl stratus
Oh yeah, his inputs great. Gunba strikes me as someone you can argue with effectively. You never have to agree with him, but you'll learn a lot.
Though I wonder if bans could actually save teams practice time in the long run (not in the short term). Because in the long run your main goal becomes cohesion regardless of comp.
sullen berry
they really need the system to allow coaches to do their best work in an underrated position
pearl stratus
It'd be like... football to me.
You practice to become the best cohesive unit, then you vod review for individualized teams
sullen berry
that's where i hope season 2 with the continuation of GOATs comes in
no need to stop the inevitable when we can have at least 1 stage that's not exclusively played by the top 6 during the postseason
pearl stratus
Also I think a "ban meta" would be great (arbitrary examples inc.): Say it becomes meta to ban Zarya on Kings Row, Orissa on Anubis, etc etc etc.
We'll eventually settle into map metas, but each one would be a bit different.
We'd see lots of different comps all the time because of it.
I'm so pro that.
If on any given day of OWL I can see 2-3+ Comps per series, I'm a happy viewer.
worn falcon
hollow jasper
How many players do you think are for hero bans and against?
Like %'s
@ me please
upper niche
So I read over some of this "banned heroes" stuff this morning and all I can say is "lol, what a crock of shit".
slow pollen
What team do you guys like???
torpid charm
urban galleon
and toronto because they got a team for the new owl season
and home city so i gotta support
karmic grotto
Easy to see the weakness of ATL Academy
Went up against Phamercy
No hitscan
Not even Widowmaker
gaunt acorn
/
karmic grotto
So, a good team exploits the weakness of another
ez win
no hitscan? free pharah bombs
pearl stratus
They had a McCree, just not a good one. The Pharah killed Pharah more than McCree did.
torpid charm
sullen berry
@slow pollen 
unkempt oracle
S - Spitfire, Excelsior.
A - Fusion, Titans, Valiant, Dynasty.
B - Outlaws, Gladiators, Mayhem/Fuel.
C - Shock, Boston, Washington, Eternal
D - Spark, Dragons, Defiant, Charge, Reign
F - Hunters.
sullen berry
hey now
I'm someone who is justifying Charge as rank C+
but tradition says that I am not 100% confident in excelsior and spitfire at least during stage 1
Fuel at B though 
surreal lichen
> 
gaunt acorn
at this point, yes
slow pollen
Go Philly!!!!!
lyric pivot
Defran is a dick, dudes.
lyric pivot
I've been a fan of Surefour since before the OWL was a thing. So naturally..
one thing that suprised me these past 2 seasons is Babybay's Widow.
pearl stratus
Benchybench, you mean.
balmy wolf
Rips you did it to him
woeful wolf
bad
violet moss
Odds of Shanghai winning a match this season?
merry hamlet
The only thing banned heroes would do is force variability in team comps but even then that’s only if they do targeted bans. We think that for example when brig was released that she would have been banned, but then the other team would have likely banned Hanzo.
If they ever do it they should do it only in owl and not in public matches
violet moss
Washington justice for last place in season 2 
upper niche
Noones even talking about how Hero bans would/should work. Do each team ban one hero? More than 1? Come on, give us some details of what you're talking about rather than just putting the vague phase "hero ban" out there as an umbrella so we can talk about how truly terrible these ideas are.
limber pine
@pearl stratus and I talked about it the other day. Overwatch needs a custom solution
it's not going to be as simple as 1 ban per map or 1 ban per match
upper niche
They should just remove (or limit) heal-stacking. That'll kill Goats for one.
gaunt acorn
1 ban per inflexible dps main
upper niche
1-hero ban will just allow teams to say "actually, we still want to run Goats ... but we're gonna ban the hero that counters the way we plan to play it"
But yeah. Fix heal-stacking. That's where the real problem lies.
jagged crater
even if you do hero ban in OWL, you gotta implement it in comp somehow
otherwise watching pros play a completely different game is unsettling
pearl stratus
It's about customization nothing else. No ones written out an outline of 'This is how it should be done' and everyone extrapolates off of existing systems of bans, which is just the wrong way to do it.
You wouldn't implement DOTA's system in OW, you wouldn't implement Paladins.
jagged crater
they're basing it off of different games
pearl stratus
You'd customize.
Yeah, sampling isn't a bad thing.
But people are drawing conclusions, positive or negative, without customizing at all
jagged crater
people just bandwagoning cuz they desperate for something new
pearl stratus
For instance - You could customize a system that bans are one per team per map, once per series.
Which means you could only ban heroes once per an entire series.
Suddenly the bans are much more strateigc.
It's not just banning [x] for 5 games straight.
You'd customize around a ban strategy, potentially, because another team could steal your ban earlier.
jagged crater
when does the ban take place
does it take place right before the match or days in advance
pearl stratus
Prematch, on stage - personally. But its something you could adjust.
People argue it'd hurt one tricks. That's personally fine.
There's really no one tricks left in OWL anyway.
And on ladder, those people are assholes.
Either way though I don't forsee a system in pro play where you'd ban around a specific person, it'd rare. The overlap is Jjonak because Zen would be a powerful ban in any situation anyway.
Since he's a defensive ult.
jagged crater
im more about stifling the potential of a team. It's more emphasis on flexibility than seeing the maximum potential of one specific composition
pearl stratus
But you're banning Zen there, not Jjonak. Jjonak is just the perk of banning the zen.
There's no potential of a team when you're running a consistent mirror meta.
jagged crater
im kinda mixed about this
pearl stratus
Goats stifles potential like shit, doesn't expand it. Dive did the same.
Look at the most valuable people in OWL for Season 1.
It was people who could adjust insanely quickly and switch to whatever meta mattered.
Specialists died off nearly instantly.
jagged crater
i dont want to say they died off, they still used em for specific maps
pearl stratus
And only Spree remains.
So they died off.
Literally every other specialist was dropped from the league.
Minus your D'vas, but thats a different case entirely.
Unless you want to pretend Snillo ever has a chance of playing on Fusion in OWL minus a team epidemic of sickness 😛
jagged crater
GOATs is very boring to watch tho, def need something new
pearl stratus
The biggest point is, and Jake actually made it well, OW will never be balanced. Because you have two options for game balance. You balance around your game (which includes the ladder) or you only balance around a very small group of people (OWL).
jagged crater
GOATs takes skill there's no doubt
pearl stratus
You can achieve perfect balance if you only balance around OWL, but you ruin your game for everyone else.
pearl stratus
Or you let things like bans happen which mean you can be a bit looser with your balancing because pros can help dictate a meta without requiring a change in heroes in lower ranks of play. It's a cop out, but not necessarily a bad one.
And again, you can customize it extensively.
Like personally I wouldn't allow multiple bans of Main tank, flex tank, main support, or flex support. One of each per map at most.
This way you don't randomly ban Rein/Winston. You leave options for the two roles that have the least amount of heroes.
As the roster grows, you open it up more.
upper niche
Yeah - bans are a lazy way of saying "it's broken, but we cbf fixing it"
pearl stratus
Because you can't fix it.
upper niche
"it's broken - here's a workaround".
pearl stratus
You will never achieve balance in OW.
If you think you can, you're a fucking moron.
No other way to say it.
upper niche
I disagree. I'm not gonna say it'll be easy - but it should damned well be easier than the job Bliz are doing which is atrociou.
pearl stratus
I mean you're right to be wrong.
But unless you shift your entire balance philosophy to pros only, OWL will never be balanced.
upper niche
But hey, go ahead trying to win your argument by calling people morons, see how many people that gets agreeing with you.
pearl stratus
And if OWL is balanced, Ladder will be fucked.
And if ladder is "balanced" OWL will be hard stuck.
upper niche
Balancing to pro play is fine. It just means there's room for people to improve.
pearl stratus
Except then you isolate out a huge chunk of your player base, and we get old Doomfist back.
Because old Doomfist was perfectly balanced.
Just not for ladder.
jagged crater
goldenboy premiering on nbc 😮
upper niche
Right now as I see it there are about five problems. 1. Heal-stacking is making heal-heavy/tank-heavy comps viable.
- Damage creep and high-damage heroes are resulting in tanks being too desirable. 3. Dva has been a damn near must-pick since day 1 and is stil lmust-pick - though Goats is part to blame for this, but she needs dialling back.
jagged crater
if we talking balancing pro play only, doomfist should've been left alone. Ladder would've been fucked
upper niche
- High-damage heros are completely fucking play in lower teirs where there's less coordination and people play as individuals.
pearl stratus
Yep, and that alone proves why it doesn't work.
Because your game hemorrhages players when things like Doomfist are there.
jagged crater
some might've argued doomfist would be buffed if balanced for pro play
and that would truly fuck ladder
it's just uimpossible to balance for both
pearl stratus
Because you can't create coordination on your ladder system.
You have two fundamentally different playing philosophies.
Most things unbalanced on ladder are because players are trash, not because heroes are too good or too bad.
Coordination and communication deals with 80% of the issues, easily.
But you can't patch that.
jagged crater
at the same time you still have to look at your 99% playerbase
OW is still a game with a massive casual base
pearl stratus
A games only as successful, as an e-sport, as the amount of talent you have continuing to want to play it.
If you lose a large percentage of your up and coming talent, you're going to die whether you want to or not.
upper niche
Players are already highlighting the massive chasm between public Comp and Contenders, and Contenders and OWL.
pearl stratus
You still need people to play on your ladder. Games that die don't keep their pro scene for long.
So you can't just balance around pros if you lose your ladder over it.
Even as trash as ladder is.
Its your starter step before open division.
upper niche
I honestly believe, if things don't chance substantially, that OWL will only survive seasons 2 and 3. 4 and 5 and possibly seaons through to 8 will go on, but they will look vastly different to what we're seeing now, hell, it might even switch focus to the Chinese market - but seaons 4-8 will be run on dying legs if things don't change soon.
jagged crater
OW looks kinda dead in the chinese scene
upper niche
Don't get me wrong, I want to see it be successful. But I do not believe that will occur in the game and leauges current state.
upper niche
What, behind all those mobile micro-transaction games like Maple Story? 😄
upper niche
haha. I had never heard of it before I went ot PAX West.
jagged crater
i played maple story when it was in beta
long ago, i was kinda addicted but burnt out due to the grind
it was SO grindy, most grindy game ever
but that was over 10 years ago
vagrant niche
hey guys, i been out of the loop
so this Ellie person was boosted or what?
why drop out of a team just cause someone posted "xd"
supple prism
from what i read, no one knew or heard of them so no one really knew if they were legit
apparently didnt stream or be in any previous team
then they started to get random death threats and they could not handle that fear so they left the team
i dont even know if it was a guy or girl
few said they saw them in some of their games but who knows if was legit or boosted or real or alt account
upper niche
I recognise that game but don't know where from... remind me?
supple prism
invited to Second Wind then 3 weeks later left
vagrant niche
Don't everybody gets dead threats no matter what?
supple prism
i dont know
vagrant niche
Reddit says that her Twitter and twitch is new
I came here cause pcgamer wrote article saying this is why not much females
I just find it hard to believe people get worked up about xd
supple prism
what about xd?
supple prism
what is xd
supple prism
oh
supple prism
oh man, Skyfoxes did so bad people are already leaving