@upper niche those are rumours
#esports-discussion
gaunt acorn
hangzhou is a close as you'll get
rare sonnet
I thought chengdu was Chinese except for 2 people and Hangzhou was full Korean except for 2 Chinese
gaunt acorn
@rare sonnet chengdu is one of the more diverse teams actually
hidden vault
Chengdu has ted wang
forest raven
Still the best name in esports
karmic grotto
They need to live up to their names
idle beacon
warped axle
I really hope team DC is like a new Boston and not a new Florida.
velvet pilot
hey, sorry but is there anybody who can tell me where i can find a team for the open division? special for the eu
vagrant niche
dam straight
that's what i said, but r/COW is NOOOOOOO
yep yep
he lost the game
green stump
@vagrant niche lol whats this?
green stump
and he thinks its a nerf
vagrant niche
which i completely agree on cause i have most hours on Pharah
it's just hard
she has to take more risks
and she gets shot down
green stump
that doesnt make her worse though, it just makes her more difficult in situations
_> plus, to be honest, after watching his video with surefour and jayne, Im starting to think Seagull's knowledge on things is extremely low
drowsy fulcrum
if y'all missing best boy goldenboy hes on the Paladins stream right now
green stump
but now Im really really shocked at how smart surefour actually is, and how well he can speak on issues, like its shockingly good, and Im ashamed I thought so little of him until I saw that
vagrant niche
i don't agree with surefour on certain things
magic zinc
Lol for me it was the other way around I fully agree with Seagull and I thought Surefour was just a big ???
vagrant niche
i'm mixed with both
green stump
Like seagull barely gave anything to the conversation, he just made a complaint, but didnt want to offer solutions, with surefour giving insight from not only his perspective, but multiple that would actually help the community.
Like with his thing with brig having a charge time with the stun, offering further skill to the hero, seagull was like "NOPE! MAKES TRACER STRONG" and surefour had to explain the whole thing out, resulting in seagull just grumbling the whole time. The same went for stats that seagull wanted more of, but couldnt give insight when surefour showed certain stats that wouldnt be seen at all, offering more insight into things, it was crazy how knowledgeable surefour was that even jayne was able to bounce off of
magic zinc
Giving solutions isn't how feedback works though. Game Devs much rather hear about your feelings and problems. I felt that Seagull at the start explained his points a lot but then Surefour shrugged them off so Seagull didn't really bother after that.
To me Surefour didnt come off knowledgeable AT ALL at one point he went "ah man the only interesting counterplay heroes are dps its hard for them not to be" and its like ??? have you seen the tanks
And then Jayne almost started acting like a councelor lol and I lol most of my interest
green stump
Feedback isnt feelings though, feedback is when you trial something, and give a response to how that performance portrayed to the game. Seagulls level of feedback is the same as forum users who thought that hammond wasnt a main tank because he didnt have a shield, despite the fact that hammond's depth of creating space was made through how well you performed the actions and how your team capitalized on it. There are still people who think hammond isnt a Main Tank because of the shield because of that lack of actually going forward with giving real feedback.
You cant depend on feelings because there are so many people who are biased on everything, they will change their feedback just to make their narrative feel correct. Thats not giving real information back to Devs and its because of that overwhelming amount of just feelings that you get problems with patching heroes to become balanced, its why brig became such a dominant force because they peoples feelings werent 'having fun' against good tracer players
magic zinc
Feedback IS about feelings and problems every game developer will tell you about that, solutions dont help at all because you're left guessing what the underlying problem is 90% of the time
pearl stratus
Feedback of feeling is more important to developers than ideas.
Because most ideas - somewhere in the range of 98.2 to 99.9 percent are completely fucking useless and made by idiots who you're confused how they breath without choking on their own spit its so retarded.
green stump
but feelings are misguided, often times uncritical of real problems. When I have to create project feedback for development, the last thing I want to hear is "this doesnt feel right..." okay why? "Dunno..I just dont like it..." it doesnt give a clear structure that can be addressed even with peers.
Devs change things when it feels its overwhelming your users, this is true. There are many games who go by that same situation, but that doesnt always fix a problem, most of the time it just creates a new problem. People FELT that mercy play previous was boring and etc, so the devs created Valk and the mercy meta was born, which people HATED even more than the previous one.
People FELT that Tracer was a big issue, so they brought out brig to help with that solution, and we know what came from that.
Feelings can drive towards change, this is true, but feelings also drive biased results as well. Its easy to just give feelings and say its feedback. In this day and age ESPECIALLY since people are so selfish with what they want.
pearl stratus
But knowing how something feels lets you work within the system you've designed, even when that system could use overhauls, to make that feeling less prevalent.
Except saying "I feel like ults need to be toned down" is perfectly viable feedback (which is what Seagulls point was).
He's not saying he knows how to tone them down, thats not his job.
He's saying they feel oppressive and snowball.
Thats something a developer can work with.
magic zinc
^
pearl stratus
Look at the r/cow forums.
Literally every idea people post is fucking retarded.
Every one of them.
That's useless to a developer.
magic zinc
The Role Queue discussion really has that problem where it just boils down to "Implement Role Queue 4Head" that doesnt help at all
pearl stratus
Role Queue is mostly an issue of players fundamentally misunderstanding the game.
And the trade off at the end of the day for role queues is massively increased queue times.
Which means you then have to listen to those morons bitch.
magic zinc
I've never met a dev that prefers solutions over problems/feelings its just not how it works
pearl stratus
Some solutions, yes.
When it can be articulated not through a forum post.
Like Noah (I think that was the kids name on S4's stream) actually didn't hate the wind up concept on Bridgette. But it has a chain of influence.
green stump
Ive met several developers who prefer structured feedback so they know where to look and examples as to why.
and those same developers hated someone who just felt like something was wrong, because they had a very narrow minded view of it
pearl stratus
Structured feedback doesn't necessarily mean not feelings though.
magic zinc
Structured feedback is what Seagull is doing
pearl stratus
Structured Feedback is fine.
magic zinc
Its very different from giving solutions that you've thought about for ~10 minutes
pearl stratus
What reddit and the official forums do is wild shit flinging ideas like stupid monkeys.
Saying "here's how you fix brigitte" you know you won't get any of the time back from reading that post.
You just wasted your life.
vagrant niche
r/COW is such a big circler jerk, i get down voted to hell if I don't praise the new Pharah change cause i have more than 160+ hours on pharah
green stump
Seagull's feedback was "I dont like ultimates" so when surefour and jayne asked for insight into this he just said "They just feel powerful" so then they asked okay, what about this or this or this how does this feel? And he just shut down, how does that provide anything?
pearl stratus
He didn't shut down, he explained that it becomes a snowball typically based off the first fight, especially in 2CP.
Which makes you feel powerless.
magic zinc
^
pearl stratus
WHich is not incorrect.
magic zinc
And this was after explaining himself on like 3/4 earlier points that got brushed aside by S4
pearl stratus
His other issue is divorcing himself from the pro status, because they're not the same issues.
magic zinc
Cant blame him for not being too motivated to explain another point
vagrant niche
I don't saw what was S4's problem about having more stats, sure it wont change toxic behaviour, but why shouldn't we have it?
pearl stratus
And I think he's smart to not get too involved in that aspect because one can very easily dumpster the other.
He wasn't saying we shouldn't have them.
He was saying Seagull is a bit...
Wrong? I guess.
On how it would help.
Stats wouldn't actually help players not treat each other like shit.
Was more how I felt Surefour was explaining it.
I think Seagull is a very very nice guy, so he's a bit jaded on how shitty people in general are lol
magic zinc
More and more of those 'solution' posts just creates a circle-jerk on how the OW dev team is the devil and incompetent and never leads to proper discussion about the problems
pearl stratus
Like you can give me all the stats in the world. I'll still take them and go to www.imright.com and use them to be toxic if I want to.
green stump
Okay from the viewpoints of a pro compared to those on the ladder, where it can feel overwhelming against you, that can make sense, because they are two different environments, as Ive said before in previous discussions with people.
But we also have to take into the fact that most of those people on ladder, often times, DONT WANT to even work together with other people. In most ladder situations, players are extremely selfish and dont understand that their views are extremely biased and invite further problems.
Like when seagull stated "would stats make people more toxic? I dunno?" this is what I mean by it. Stats help a certain number of individuals, myself included, who would love to have them.
But Surefour already said "Yes, but most people dont understand stats" which leads to them misreading and misunderstanding them....Ever see what happened to a lot of players on the Monster Hunter World playerbase when damage counters went up? Or even Final Fantasy 14? Huge amounts of grief came from it because people cant understand stats properly
pearl stratus
For me the issue on stats is..
I don't think Seagulls inherently wrong from his T500 bubble.
You see the same players ALL the time.
You can actually use the data to work with people in such a small bubble.
If you're in plat/diamond? You never see those people again.
Those stats mean shit either way.
Knowing the issues after the fact don't help you.
I'd like my own personal stats, but I think sharing group stats with uneducated people isn't useful.
green stump
But thats the point isnt it? People who dont know how to use them will have their own feelings on the matter. Feelings are instant, they are based on something current, not something that comes after the fact. Feelings change based on whats presented.
Even if we give all our feelings and feedback from those feelings to the developers, it becomes their job to understand those feelings, resulting in a a soultion. But if that solution creates a NEW feeling of resentment and etc, then it keeps going again and again and again, you cant satisfy everyones feelings because so many are jaded towards a very very narrow perspective
pearl stratus
Either way I hope Blizzard never listens to the reddit either way.
I swear someone yesterday said to counter Doomfist you should just keep a Sombra in your back line.
And I wanted to murder that person.
green stump
trust me, theres way worse out there
pearl stratus
"Minimally annoy Doomfist by losing 90% of Sombras use. 4head"
I don't think inherently that Seagull is wrong on any of his points though - the game does get to a feeling of powerlessness currently. But its not even just because of the CC, or just because of Doomfist oplol. It's because in the last year the community has devolved so much in my eyes.
green stump
I THINK overall, that whole conversation was extremely good to show both perspectives. Thats how the process should be done. One gives a feeling, the others give critical conversation and discussion around it to determine the next steps. Surefour is needed into that because he offers a similar perspective as Seagull, BUT hes more clear into direction. Surefour wants a solution that is open to be discussed while Seagull wants a solution that can be addressed
pearl stratus
I don't know if you caught xQc coming in latter, but since he wasnt' with his own twitch chat he contributed a lot of intelligent points too.
vagrant niche
I feel powerless on Pharah if i don't have a good reliable strong mercy or healer
pearl stratus
Mostly in the change of the community, not the heroes.
pearl stratus
And thats the hardest thing to fix - when the problem is your players.
green stump
@pearl stratus Without that twitch chat, XQC is a very different person XD
pearl stratus
Oh I know, I just wanted to make the joke since we've talked about it 😛
green stump
XD yeah, Ive stated that before as well
pearl stratus
But he mentions the "sweet" spot for games, and how its shortened month over month.
Because he gets into games now and no one talks, or they all talk shit.
He gets this window after scrims are released, and before the 3 stacks appear, where he gets really good quality OW.
green stump
But thats more up to players these days...many feel that they dont have to be the one who lead the charge or contribute, many feel that someone else will do it for them, because thats what a lot of games have pushed towards lately
pearl stratus
Also as a full time streamer its double duty frustrating to micromanage everyone, which is what it takes some times
Which I could see being just exhausting.
green stump
yeah but thats their choice though, they choose to be streamers
rocky elm
pearl stratus
Aren't TTV the people who get the shit kicked out of them in BlOps?
sullen berry
@rocky elm no advertising in this channel, try posting in #video-content
green stump
@rocky elm Wrong channel to post that, go to #video-content
pearl stratus
I'm pretty sure I saw them in Blackout and itwas like... a rape.
rocky elm
ok
pearl stratus
I almost called the police.
green stump
@rocky elm after you do so, could you erase your advertisement from this channel? thanks
pearl stratus
I think the one point Surefour brought up that I know Blizzard won't ever do is a pure solo queue.
But I personally think its needed.
But then its up to the community if they want things that will fix some of their issues versus if they want faster queues.
green stump
well thats the thing isnt it? People scream and complain about things they want, but barely even have the smallest concept on what is actually good for the game and what is needed...
pearl stratus
I personally would rather sit in queue for 5+ minutes than get into a game with a 4-5 stack.
Hell.
vagrant niche
their arguments about the role queues is about long waiting times, but my take is, I rather wait long periods of time for higher chance of nice games than shit games
pearl stratus
I'd sit in queue for 20 minutes.
sullen berry
what I got out of the video nobody is talking enough about (his followup has < 1/3 of the views of his original message)
surefour > seagull on insider knowledge
green stump
The solutions to fix the game is right in front of them, but people dont understand it, so they think its not worth it
pearl stratus
Getting in a game with a 5 stack is worse than getting aids.
In the video game colloquial sense.
sullen berry
at least I didn't expect him to understand some of the technical workings that he presented or at least brought back to our attention
magic zinc
If Surefour had insider knowledge he'd know not to throw solutions all over the place and give feedback the way Seaugll did
pearl stratus
I'm not against role queue, I'm not against solo queue only, I'm not against longer queues. But I'm also not the majority.
sullen berry
fixing the base in which you brought people in to play is so drastic that it doesn't appeal to Blizzard to consider implementing right now
more nerfs and buffs that they can change on the fly between patches suits them more
pearl stratus
I think, for the start, to remove golden weapons from Comp would be an easy solution to begin some of the filtering of comp players.
Personally.
vagrant niche
yeee get rid of golden stuff
100% agree
no skins etc
just pure competition
no rewards
pearl stratus
I agree with that in any games competitive mode.
vagrant niche
it attracts the wrong people
pearl stratus
Because then people play to be competitive.
potent forge
add levels on every hero
pearl stratus
Not for anything else.
potent forge
golden weapon through le vel up
green stump
Like, I had this discussion with some of my contacts in the high ranked scene. How do you increase the player knowledge and growth from lower ranks to mid ranks?
Most were saying role que and etc, but then I presented "What about Challenges based on heroes that reward you for accomplishment, based purely on that heroes depth and ability within teams?"
Explaining it like this. Say you have Reinhardt, he has Main Tank Challenges and Hero challenges, Say Main Tank Challenges is Damage taken compared to Team?
Or supports get a new Lifesaver Fire rating, where they heal someone from near death during combat? something that adds to their fire rating thats a bit more obscure?
pearl stratus
I think role queue helps increase knowledge though.
green stump
would it?
pearl stratus
From my perspective flexing is very important.
But flexing too much causes issues.
green stump
compared to teaching from an individual hero level and role level?
pearl stratus
When people can get comfortable in a zone, whether its tank/offtank, support/flex support.
And they're not constantly jumping around
They can focus on the things that aren't attributed just to who you're playing.
green stump
Because even if you give role que, how does that teach a player about 'making space' as a tank?
pearl stratus
Your map sense, your game sense, things that aren't just "Oh God I need to fill"
green stump
how does it teach a dps or support to 'use space' created by the tank?
pearl stratus
No, but neither would challenges overall if most games are the indicator.
Because people tend to focus on getting it done easily, without an indication of why they're doing it.
green stump
wouldnt it? How did you learn how to play platformers?
pearl stratus
Need to heal someone from near death for that one?
Okay
So I'll just not heal for a bit
Then I'll spam at the end.
I should get it.
You're giving gamers too much credit, in my opinion.
magic zinc
If I need a % of damage taken compared to the rest of my team on Winston I can literally feed my brains off and get that
green stump
and if that player dies from that, then it clearly tells you exactly how you died wouldnt it? Your not going to stop people from abusing things, thats just the nature of gamers, but it also HELPS a large amount of people to feel rewarded for doing something correctly
pearl stratus
But why would I care?
I'd just do it again next time to complete my challenge.
My goal is just to finish the challenge.
green stump
And the number of times you do it, the better you get at it
you start LOOKING for those critical members, putting yourself in positions to access them more wouldnt you?
green stump
IS that true? Wouldnt it make more sense you would put yourself in locations to access those players the moment they reach that state? Wouldnt it make more sense you would avoid death just so you can complete that challenge?
pearl stratus
No.
magic zinc
I'm not sure how that would help the game exactly?
pearl stratus
Because I have 6 people and a lot of time.
green stump
Do you?
pearl stratus
Sure.
magic zinc
I mean Mercy old Res had a similar thing where you'd just play hide and seek
magic zinc
This sounds similar to that dynamic
green stump
But thats just you, how many others would actually learn and get better from that?
green stump
See what I mean about feelings?
pearl stratus
I mean we have endorsements, how many people do you actually endorse because they did something amazing?
pearl stratus
And how much of the population just hits it for 50xp.
green stump
The point is that growth has to come naturally, forcing it creates...well, what we have right now.
magic zinc
Wait how does that tie into feelings at all lol
vagrant niche
I rarely endorse, and usually i endorse the people who i felt who really enabled me to play my role
which doesn't happen often
pearl stratus
I j ust endorse everyone for 50xp.
green stump
@magic zinc Because if it doesnt apply to you, then it doesnt look all that important, but if it will improve the quality of the game, then it should be pushed forward and improved
vagrant niche
so i don't endorse much
pearl stratus
Honestly.
pearl stratus
I don't either, lol. Its just habit now.
I have every skin but like 3. Cause they're ugly af.
green stump
Feelings come a lot from how it applies to you, not to something overall. If no one feels like something applies to them, despite how much they may actually need it, then you miss opportunity.
vagrant niche
i'm sitting here at 28k gold
magic zinc
So lets say you pitch this to the devs right
vagrant niche
nothing to spend them on
magic zinc
How does this help them?
vagrant niche
and i never bought a lootbox
magic zinc
You'd be much better of saying you think the game lacks an incentive to improve or whatever so they can work with that feedback
vagrant niche
i don't think the game lacks incentive to improve, that's up to the players
green stump
@magic zinc thats easy.
- Increases player activity, players will be more inclined to play the game to get these rewards from the challenges. Lets say you get 10000 players actively doing it who werent doing it before, great.
- Because these 10000 players are actively doing it, you can PHYSICALLY SEE growth with the controlled group of 10000 players, you can see who is improving, and who is not, you can then adjust this as you get more and more data and feedback from those 10000 players actively trying>
- From there, you can build on top of those challenges to create further dynamics, to get players to improve naturally through their own desire to achieve these rewards. With that say...2000 who dont improve or gain anything, great, you can use those 2000 players to improve the system, while the 8000 who did improve will spread out and improve the quality of your game
vagrant niche
if anything, the OWL has given me reason to improve
pearl stratus
I also don't see enough of the nuances of the system that would actually drive improvement that could be tied to that system. Your super basic shit, yes. But you can't teach someone game sense or map sense.
vagrant niche
but most people that play overwatch don't care about Pro and league etc
magic zinc
You're just building on your solution again though ?
vagrant niche
they just play cause "I just had a rough day at work so i just want to relax and play some competitive overwatch"
green stump
@magic zinc Your building on a foundation, thats the process of all experiments and creating growth and depth. Every single game out there does this
magic zinc
What are you trying to improve here/what problem are you trying to fix
Thats what the dev wants to know
vagrant niche
"bruh, it's quick play, bruh it's ptr"
just cause it's a mode doesn't mean you need to feed your brains out and waste YOUR and OUR time on stupid matches
learn how to freaking play
pearl stratus
My biggest gripe in this game will always be the people I have to play with.
I don't care about Brigitte, I don't care about Doomfist.
pearl stratus
I do care about four fuckwads instantly locking DPS
pearl stratus
I care about ending up with 4-5 stacks that sit on discord and don't communicate in game.
green stump
@magic zinc Oh thats also easy.
You are improving 3 separate things.
- You get more players active on your game, this makes your shareholders and people investing into your game happy because they get to see their investment grow.
- You create a better BALANCED scene in the game, with more players with better knowledge and skill through these practiced challenges in competitive, you get a more ENGAGING and willing player base to work together
- You create a better player who worked and achieved things themselves. They will move to different heroes, learn how they play, establish knowledge and foundation with the heroes, a stronger bond with them, meaning you have a player who looks to GROW and ACCOMPLSH things on their own and feel they are doing a good job overall>
And on the side, for the ones who DONT get anything back from, who cannot accomplish it, you get an already, preestablished, group you can get feedback and feelings from that are based purely on a system that works for others, making it easier to build on that foundation.
pearl stratus
So I'm stuck solo floating with no idea what their plan is.
The problem is that people are shit bags.
And the only way to fix shit bags is to let me get away from them en masse.
You can't avoid them entirely.
But you can give the tools to neuter a bunch of them.
magic zinc
I get your point but it was not the point I was trying to make lol
vagrant niche
They should like
make overwatch mobile game for casuals
so they can have their "lore"
and leave use competitive people
alone
pearl stratus
It's also, with no offense Nai, not a solution that at all accounts for human nature.
green stump
@magic zinc okay...what was your point?
magic zinc
Devs rather hear "I think players dont have a good enough understanding on their role" and you can leave it at that
green stump
...why?
magic zinc
Creating that whole system (and hopefully making it fool proof) is up to the devs
Its how game dev feedback works?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/9xem32/surefour_seagulls_video_has_a_lot_of_thoughts_and/e9rnynr/ Did you read ZPs comment
pearl stratus
Blizzard dev feedback especially.
green stump
Okay...so "I think players dont have enough ability to fight Tracer" what was the solution from that? because that is what Jeff said the major complaint was when they thought or brig
vagrant niche
uhhh, devs are putting freaking aweful videos, bruh you never seen those crazy videos before the maps on twitch with the battle mercy and the D.Va walking shooting long range to a bastion?
that's not the best example you want to give to new players
or new viewers
magic zinc
The solution was Brig?
pearl stratus
I mean Brigitte was a necessary evil. People don't like her, but the only other option available was to literally dumpster Tracer.
Because Tracer is a hairline balance hero.
You'll never find an okay spot for her.
She'll either be great, or she'll be trash.
green stump
And that was one of Seagulls biggest complaints in his video, was that brig was a hard counter, it didnt fix anything, but just created a new problem.
pearl stratus
Blizzard has a few hairline balance heroes, for better or worse.
Seagull also pointed out the only other solution was to nerf her into the ground.
So.
Grain of salt.
vagrant niche
now Brig is taking all the brunt of casuals
green stump
It doesnt fix anything though, thats the issue with having just regular feelings instead of feedback.
I'll say this, its easy to do it though, you can get a lot of quantity with it, but then you have to fish through it for quality.
pearl stratus
I'm just saying
Anyone giving Blizzard ideas should be smart enough to write them on toilet paper.
At least when Blizzard wipes their ass with your idea, it won't chafe.
vagrant niche
watch it, now people are going to bitch about Roadhog
pearl stratus
Because thats going to be what happens.
green stump
well, consdiering what the old founder of blizzard is saying, its more activision than blizzard these days
so that might explain a lot more
vagrant niche
it's going to go from Brig to Roadhog next
pearl stratus
People already are again.
You fuck fuck people up with new Hog.
It's a solid balance between Hog 1.0 and Hog 2.0
green stump
and so, they will demand his get nerfed, and more and more of this will keep looping...
limber pine
I also enjoy fucking up Hog 3.0 with Zarya
pearl stratus
Oh he's perfectly counter playable.
I think he's balanced quite well right now.
But thats not how mostpeople react.
green stump
true enough
pearl stratus
I would say for...
magic zinc
I doubt he'll see a lot of play but yeah he plays fine now imo
pearl stratus
75% of the player base - maybe a bit more - "Overpowered" means "I don't know how to counter this."
green stump
@magic zinc hes currently being practiced for the new 4 tank meta
pearl stratus
Brig doesn't do enough for a duo healer.
vagrant niche
the people who bother me the most are the console crowd that got Pharah changed
jesus crhist
mega salt
vagrant niche
Hell to the naw naw
magic zinc
So its just that Slambulance comp that OWL teams ran on Horizon A for a bit?
green stump
sorta
vagrant niche
S4 wants brig shield bash to have a startup animation, that sure was some retarded idea
is he aware now she can't shield bash through shields?
pearl stratus
Actually it wasn't, in terms of slim line balance.
green stump
@vagrant niche I think thats a great idea
pearl stratus
Do you actually realize how useless the shield bash change is?
green stump
yeah he is
magic zinc
Brig can still walk through Rein to stun him anyway its just a bit riskier
pearl stratus
Yeah, you have to wait .7 seconds longer to clip through his shield.
And do the same exact thing.
magic zinc
I'll admit it makes tanks much less frustrating to play tbh imo
green stump
it made rein less
vagrant niche
are you talking about walking past shield to shield bash rein?
green stump
everyone else is still the same
pearl stratus
Yeah, the same as just meleeing Rein.
You have to clip his shield the tiniest bit
And you can start punching him
Same with the shield bash
And he's going to have his shield up because if he drops it to swing on Brig you'll run shatter risk.
green stump
_> so yeah....the charge timer was actually a better idea
pearl stratus
The charge timer was a great idea because it gave a LOT of counter play.
green stump
It makes both Tank players happy AND DIVE
pearl stratus
The only other Nerf I think Brig should get would be to ruin her FoV change with her shield up.
vagrant niche
how aobut we make pharah good
pearl stratus
So she can't corner hump.
vagrant niche
instead
vagrant niche
Pharah is not good enough vs goats
pearl stratus
Pharah's perfectly fine against Goats, just not on ladder.
vagrant niche
useless changes that made her harder to be effective on situations
pearl stratus
Because chances are your ladder supports aren't working with you.
pearl stratus
But that doesn't mean Pharahs not good against Goats.
vagrant niche
that's why i don't play pharah no more nowdays
green stump
@pearl stratus I agree with you on the FOV thing
pearl stratus
That means your team isn't supporting you.
It has nothign to do with Pharah.
Has to do with the players.
green stump
pretty much
pearl stratus
New Pharah is insanely strong played well. But like all other changes its about Teamwork.
green stump
From what Ive discussed with my contacts, the player base is extremely bad, its stupidity mixed with ego and that kills it for a lot of players who just want to play and have fun and grow
magic zinc
I feel like Pharah could be a tad less team reliant tbh
pearl stratus
Because her lower aerial play is so good, you need the support.
The entire game could be a lot less team reliant.
pearl stratus
But that goes against the spirit of the game.
pearl stratus
So its a matter of can Blizzard break the mold they poured for themselves or not.
vagrant niche
i can't play her if i don't have good healer
pearl stratus
And its most likely going to be a no.
magic zinc
I liked a suggestion of giving her 50 shields over health so her power level doesn't change but she's less team reliant
green stump
XD If you want more proof of this, remember Old Genji before his nerfs? They were very low on team reliance and they were insufferable to play with
pearl stratus
Jayne or Blizzards response would be "So why aren't you queueing with one"
green stump
and they were EVERYWHERE
pearl stratus
Which isn't inherently a bad response.
Because Jayne/Seagull AND S4 made the same point.
When you play in a stack the game stops being so painful.
vagrant niche
they fly away cause they have to heal someone, how about you let me surive for 1 extra second so i kill what needs to be killed and you res that person later?
good
god
green stump
@pearl stratus Well, we also have to consider this, how many games before overwatch were strictly 100% team reliant with very little principle in solo carry?
pearl stratus
Pretty much none because for all intents and purposes this is its own genre.
vagrant niche
watch it, people are going to bitch about ashe as well
pearl stratus
It's not a moba, its not an fps.
vagrant niche
they going to nerf dynamite
pearl stratus
Nah Dynamite is slotted the way it is for a reason.
The only thing they'd ever nerf is initial explosion.
Which isn't what the dynamite is about.
green stump
@pearl stratus exactly, so take all those people and put them in overwatch which removed a lot of their ability to be that 1 man show
pearl stratus
They could make it 20 damage initial explosion, it'd still be great.
But most people don't understand -why- TnT is good.
So they don't know what to complain about.
vagrant niche
wait, are you talking about rein?
green stump
yeah but even less know how good coach gun is
pearl stratus
They'll tune down Coach Gun I think.
90 damage is a bit high on it for a disengage.
So much burst if you do it right.
green stump
_> I remember when ashe was being disucssed, EVERYONE was going crazy about tnt, and I was screaming "...does ANYONE NOT SEE THE 90 DAMAGE BURST SHOTGUN WITH UTILITY, FORCED KNOCKBACK IN THE SAME CALIBUR OF DOOMFIST UPPERCUT?! ANYONE?!?!"
pearl stratus
Which makes it 16.6 dps.
Lucio and Brig aura healing is 16.6 hps.
TnT creates a zero sum where you flat out turn off Lucio and Brig healing for 6 seconds.
green stump
yup
pearl stratus
Minus if Lucio amps.
But at that point you force an amp.
And your tnt is up before he can amp again.
vagrant niche
i mean, yeah that was the whole point of the TnT
to help vs goats
like the anti nade
green stump
?? it doesnt help vs goats
pearl stratus
Yeah, but most people don't understand that.
pearl stratus
They think the explosion is the point of the bomb.
When its the least important part.
green stump
As long as Dva is around, tnt is just candy
sullen berry
waiting to be matrix'd
green stump
HOWEVER
pearl stratus
It's at least got some decent versatility to help it avoid matrix.
Between ground tosses, etc.
vagrant niche
man, how long will it be till the ashe hype dies so i can finally play her?
i only played on kings row
pearl stratus
Probably a week or so.
vagrant niche
Orisa barrier was hard to get around
green stump
The issue with Ashe isnt just that shes got that TNT, its that her playstyle is like a better version of Ana, and thats where the problem is
vagrant niche
ye, i'm trying to improve my aim
i do multiple ana headshot sessions everyday
i'm trying to get better
pearl stratus
Her verticality is nearly uncontested.
green stump
Ashe pretty much creates a 2nd dps version of ana, creating multiple sight light problems. Before Widow would take that spot, but Ashe creates a dynamic similar to Ana
Shes like mixing ana and widow together, with a touch of hanzo
pearl stratus
I'm still baffled at how high coach gun gets you.
vagrant niche
Ashe feels so good to me cause the gun feels good
unlike Widow
i hate the charge time
pearl stratus
The gun feels like your standard FPS BR.
vagrant niche
Ashe is just right
green stump
However, goats still keeps her in check, as long as Dva exists, hitscanners will have issues
pearl stratus
My accuracy with McCree is so janky and hit and miss.
My Accuracy with Ashe is noticeable higher.
Because of familiarity.
green stump
Thats why most people say this brig change didnt stop anything, and goats remains, and the real way to fix it, is to lower tank damage from Dva, Rein, and Zarya
vagrant niche
from long range
pearl stratus
I don't think its just tank damage.
I think tank ults are overtuned.
Because they're two ults that highly contribute to snowball, and they're up quickly.
green stump
yes but if you lower tank damage, you also lower Ult generation
pearl stratus
A good shatter means a free team kill without additional ults.
sullen berry
@vagrant niche shield dancing i hope to see more of on broadcast, underwhelming but underrated orisa survivability strat
green stump
Lower ult generation means each tank ult becomes more valuable and needs to be perfect with its usage
vagrant niche
if you come across any examples show me
but again, i hardly was able to play her
i need people to let me play her so i get a feel on real quickplay
pearl stratus
The problem isn't just the frequency and damage of their ults though Nai.
green stump
Lower tank damage, means you'll need to pick up that damage, and you could replace it with some dps
vagrant niche
arcade is pretty cancer
pearl stratus
It's the impact they have.
Tank ults are arguably the best in the game, minus Zenyatta.
green stump
@pearl stratus The impact though comes from the relationship with goats, If they came out less frequent, wouldnt that help make them feel more balanced? Instead of it being "hey, after 1 team fight, everyone has 90% ult"
because thats the power to goats, it charges not just tanks, but the supports charge from those big bulbous health bars
pearl stratus
Trans -> Tank Ults -> Defensive Support Ults -> Projectile Ults -> Support Ults -> Hitscan Ults.
Is how I'd tentatively rank ults in the game.
Ashe sitting above Hitscan ults, but she's not in comp so I don't know where.
vagrant niche
nano nade -> trans 
green stump
By lowering tank damage, Goats loses over half its power
pearl stratus
I agree, but I don't think its all tank damage.
I think D'va is relatively fine in terms of damage.
Only thing I'd change if I had the power is no Matrix + Rockets simultaneously.
I think Hammond for the most part is fine on damage, Winston as well.
It's just Rein + Zarya.
green stump
that would hurt her tremendously wouldnt it? thats not rewarding skill, but just making her more simple and rigid
pearl stratus
It would, D'va is one of the knife edge balanced heroes I was talking about earlier.
vagrant niche
oh boi, you say that on r/cow all the die hard Rein mains will crucify you
pearl stratus
IF you change her cooldowns, even the slightest, she goes from great to garbage.
If you mess with their interplay as well.
D'va, despite being a massively simple hero, is a very hard hero to balance.
queen drift
imo just make her rockets last longer
green stump
Thats why you just lower her damage, shes still the same, but it takes more effort to kill with it, providing dps and other roles more avenues to fight back
queen drift
same damage, same amount of rockets, spread over double the time
pearl stratus
My issue is if you lower her damage - because of its nature of being a bee swarm
green stump
same with zarya and rein, and I love zarya to death
pearl stratus
You go from low impact to no impact against armor.
And thats tough.
Rein and Zarya prevail in Goats because their hits are barely impacted by armor.
green stump
yeah but goats relays a lot on that armor, it becomes much less of a factor if you have bursty dps replacing tanks wouldnt it?
and those tanks do less damage
vagrant niche
wait, didn't torb's ult got buffed to kill armor faster?
green stump
no, he got buffed to do DAMAGE in general faster
pearl stratus
The recent buff just upped his ult from 160 to 190 dps.
Because he's ignorable.
And garbage.
He has like three points in the game he's impactful.
The primary one being Gibraltar B.
green stump
But anyways, you decrease damage on tanks, say about..10% or so, that 10% will be needed to pick up because mirror goats would at that point just be unplayable and dull. it would be a slug fest that lasts forever, leading people to find alternative solutions for faster damage
If DVA for example, does less damage overall, it allows heroes like Pharah to come back in, because one of her biggest threats is less threatening now
Pharah coming in, brings in hitscan
hitscans bring in divers
so on and so on
but until tanks stop doing as much as DPS can but be able to SURVIVE through all that damage, goats will remain dominant
pearl stratus
I had one other thought, but like all people ideas its stupid and I'm unable to see where else it would massively effect the game.
But I'd love to talk to a developer about the concept of aura stacking, and not doing additive.
green stump
Aura stacking is actually interesting
pearl stratus
I.E: Brig and Lucio healing create a net value of 150%, not 200%.
But there's other impacts of it that I just dont' know about.
green stump
I think maybe the reason why its not so much of an issue is there arent enough heroes yet that have passive auras of that regard?
pearl stratus
Well I mean more in a way to turn down deathballs.
Though for a good chunk of the time lucio is maintaining speed anyway.
green stump
Weakening the overall hps you mean
pearl stratus
So it would only come to play into the bigger fights.
Yeah, while not directly nerfing any particular hero.
Just the combination of two in auras.
green stump
that would remove brig thats for sure
but it would just result in ana becoming even more valuable XD
pearl stratus
It would, but there's very few overall comps that you run Lucio + Brig on that aren't Goats.
For instance Lucio + Brig in Quad Tank wouldn't work at all.
green stump
yeah, but that just makes a new version of deathball, how do you get dps into comps?
green stump
If tanks can live longer than dps in fights due to having that beefy tank hp, theres no point in dps if they can do the job better
pearl stratus
Just a concept to lower the passive healing of goats.
green stump
HOWEVER
pearl stratus
Because between Lucio + Brig + Cart the passive healing in the comp is whats so stupid strong.
green stump
the idea of the aura stacking is good as a core root to this problem as well
you said my point before I even got to it XD
green stump
pretty much
pearl stratus
Amp bumping it to 58hp/s.
green stump
follow it up with a moria ball
pearl stratus
Or, if you're playing into the passive nature, an Ana Nade.
green stump
yup yup
pearl stratus
Because the Anada nade jumps it to 63hp/s not counting grenade hit.
So Rein is getting 10% health back per second.
With no direct heals.
green stump
which actually leads us to another issue as well..
even if DPS comes back, the first two back would be Hanzo and Widow
and you know where that goes...
pearl stratus
Yeah, the burst healing available in the game now outpaced any amount of consistent damage validity.
Soldiers not good - but its not because of his kit or his numbers.
It's because consistent damage loses a point.
green stump
meaning that only the burst from hanzo and widow would be valuable...but ashe's ability to negate ONE of those auras helps, however, its not enough to be impactful
combine this with the beefy hp bars of tanks and supports gain ult charge faster than ever before
-_-;; but no...brig is the big problem with goats....not that she was the final puzzle piece to make it work, no, shes everything
upper niche
Soldier's not 'good' because we're in the one-shot damage creep meta, which counters healers.
People have a chance to be healed from damage done by soldier. Can't do that when Hanzo, McCree or even Reaper insta-kill you.
vagrant niche
it's cause we right now are in a burst dps damage or no damage
we have too much shields and healing than vanilla
sullen berry
so I see reddit is in the mindset of Guangzhou basically S2's San Francisco shock
judging by the outpouring of content and competition, let's see how it turns out 
jagged crater
dont we have less healing than at least during ana's release?
forest raven
gaunt acorn
@sullen berry valiant updated their discord icon
sullen berry
in the past 24 hours, yes
upper niche
Did you also notice that in the thread where they said "Yep, we're sorry people are affected by this bug, we'll have a patch out tomorrow", when people asked if there's any recourse for the people who got dropped from games because of it the answer was crickets?
limber pine
limber pine
Snillo apparently two way now and Whoru on a different team
Beasthalo definitely picked up too
torpid charm
Snillo
hidden vault
Wait a min sky is not on any of the owl teams?
sullen berry
Not on any of the rumored rosters
ruby pendant
lol snillo
pearl stratus
Wait wait.
Why isn't there a link to buy the spark hoodie? Cause that thing looks nice.
sullen berry
it's simple
do what the shanghai crowd did to hype up the hoodie as long as possible
they could just be initial runs not ready for production like Soe's jersey
gaunt acorn
sullen berry
that's a well-timed response if I have ever seen one about PTR changes
forest raven
Power of bird man
sullen berry
only took 48 hours from the original video
which irks me that not enough views have come out of it yet
a Seagull podcast featuring xQc for comic relief and Surefour as the pro player
that's the quality content people deserve leading up to season 2
pearl stratus
It's not just Seagull though.
I think people overlooked it when Jeff was bringing up Ashe.
But even he had said they went too far.
The biggest thing is going to be winding it down without removing it and letting old monsters lose again, i.e. Tracer Genji dive for another 18 months.
verbal roost
Tracer genji dive oh no 😦
forest raven
sullen berry
Invite him to this server
queen drift
@forest raven Elise is big gay
upper niche
Thing is, Brig and Doomfist could both be fixed by massive reducing their damage output.
By all means, let brig stun - but make the others get the kill
McCree/Hanzo damage creep is just stupid with all the one-shot kills...
drifting tulip
brig should be 200hp
upper niche
Well, 100hp 100 armour.
vagrant niche
I'm still going to do good on Brig anyways
as long as my team is not ass
i actually like the healing buff
i'm fine with just scaring off the tracer
my only concern about them decreasing the CC is Genji blade
just like Seagull said about ultimate being too strong
if we don't have Trans, then we dead
vagrant niche
they keep nerfing her but with the new nerfs, i wonder if they are going to overdo it
i'm just glad she got healing buff
to compensate
and it's not just straight nerf nerf nerf
I have never ever ever gotten tilted about losing to brig
vagrant niche
nice trolling
fast basin
no
vagrant niche
fast basin
Reasonably Salty tho
vagrant niche
and i'll pick her vs you to tilt you
fast basin
Same
But I do think that she imbalances everything
and just ruins the game for me personally
vagrant niche
I think i belong to diamond tho
if i buy a new account, i'm sure i can score diamond
vagrant niche
I don't grind comp anymore nowdays
sadly
nowdays i'm trying to improve my aim for Ashe
here are my stats if you doubt me
vagrant niche
on ranked? yeah probably
pearl stratus
Why does every scuffed SR twat always say to just remove a hero they can't counter play?
It's so 2016.
vagrant niche
i still remember the bastion OP back in vanilla
pearl stratus
Bastion was only OP once in his life.
vagrant niche
sure, op against uncoordinated people
queen drift
in both QP and comp
pearl stratus
And that was crazy mecha titanclad Bastion.
queen drift
your stats arent great
pearl stratus
Which they're about [] close to adding back into the game.
But everyones too busy crying about other things to notice his last PTR buff 😉
queen drift
which one, the shield or the damage reduction?
vagrant niche
well rip then, i guess i'm plat chat
queen drift
i havent checked ptr
pearl stratus
Damage reduction getting bumped up by I think 15-20%.
queen drift
by or to
pearl stratus
By.
gaunt acorn
ironnclad bastion was literally a hellish nightmare
queen drift
shiiiit
pearl stratus
Iirc 15 - 35%.
queen drift
pepe fucking hands
gaunt acorn
it was actually impossible to kill him
you could grav pulse bomb him and he'd be fine
queen drift
you cant pulse shit anymore
gaunt acorn
if he was repairing while in tank form i think he could survive dva bomb
pearl stratus
On its own no, but with even a modicum of follow up pulsebomb is fine on Bastion
I liked that if he was repairing he'd live through the center of Dragons.
Just "Doot doot beep boop"
gaunt acorn
yeah i'm talking while 6 people are shooting him
queen drift
pulsing solo supports is even risky now if they have brig
but you dont play tracer v brig anyway so 😄 🔫
pearl stratus
\Yeah no I'm talking currently pulse bomb to respond to Adrian.
it leaves Basiton now with like.. 25 health. A strong breeze after the pulse kills him
vagrant niche
Bastion needs a buff like, tank mode with his sentry
just slower speed
or soemthing
and maybe adjust the damage
pearl stratus
The two things they did are fine.
Just no one knows about them
Because all the scuffed people can do is cry about Brig and Doom.
pearl stratus
The biggest thing is most people who cry about CC are crying about teamwork, they just don't understand it. But hey.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Also they just added more Doom and Brig nerfs.
So goodbye watching Doomfist in a pro game ever again.
vagrant niche
are you talking about the shield bash damage reduction and more healing?
pearl stratus
Seismic Slam
Victims no longer lose air control while being pulled in.
Meteor Strike
Inner ring damage radius increased from 1.5m to 2.0m. This is the ring where Meteor Strike deals its full 300 damage.
Max damage outside of inner ring decreased from 300 to 200. This is the ring where damage falloff happens, which still reduces the damage down to 15 at max range.
vagrant niche
seismic slam is the one with the cone shape?
pearl stratus
The lack of even moderate CC on the E means pro players (not ladder, ladder people will still die) will have multiple options of escape whether strafing out, or through, Doom.
So his risk reward play style drops drastically - making him a much less valuable pick overall.
I foresee him going back to point stall only, and even then the drop of range on the E means his roll outs are slower.
It's a good balance patch for ladder.
But thats about it.
vagrant niche
onto roadhog next the next victim of outcry circlejerk
pearl stratus
Roadhog will probably get nerfed in two weeks, even though he's pretty fine right now.
His 'rework' was two very smart simple changes but the hook makes people REEE.
vagrant niche
Ashe dynamite after
then i have no idea
maybe they will go back to hating pharah
pearl stratus
I liked Elks take on Brig.
vagrant niche
what did he said?
pearl stratus
The brig "nerfs" makes Goat stronger.
pearl stratus
Extra healing output should, by all means, outpace shield bash damage reduction in ult generation.
So without any other tweaks she'll most likely generate ult faster.
vagrant niche
sexi
pearl stratus
Not by much, a few seconds or so
vagrant niche
you thought it was a nerf, but it's actually a buff
i think reason why brig is successfully is because you dont need that much team coordination to do well with her
and you can flex multiple roles
that's why I like her a lot
i can do a bit of everything
i can't rely on team mates to be competent on their roles
but i can guarantee i can do my best on some parts of it
like, with brig I'm always trying to zone out Ana and Zens from healing their tanks etc
people don't see that, stats don't show that
while my teams might get healing from my auras
ruby pendant
Felt that the stun ability brought more diversity to comps.
If they reduce stuns you'll only encourage the genji/tracer comps again.
queen drift
as opposed to the whopping diversity of GOATs
regardless of what they do, it's always going to be hard to NOT have 1 particular comp that dominates
in an ideal world you want a different comp, a different strat per map with strats that counter that strat and a strat to counter the counter strat
which already exists
but why do that when you can just run goats and be just as likely if not more likely to win
which was the scenario with dive
and is the current scenario with goats
and will be the scenario for whatever the next comp is
vagrant niche
I have no problems with the meta
i don't think i ever had a problem with any meta
i have always had problems with the people i get paired with
well, almost, sometimes people just try hard and the win just doesn't come, that's natural
and it's fine
pearl stratus
The thing is Goats works no matter how retarded you are.
You may not be playing it to its max, but you can be stupid and get serviceable goats on Ladder.
Which makes ladder unfun to people.
Dive never translated well to ladder, so while it was boring af to watch you never had to really deal with it.
Also Goats isn't even that meta for pro as we saw.
Sure it was all over OWWC.
But no one won with it.
We got a finals of two teams that didn't like running goats.
upper niche
It's probably becauase the experienced, coordinated teams have practiced for any comp that's thrown at them.
Goats being so common, they would be continually practicing strats against it.
vivid crow
gaunt acorn
@vivid crow ok
gaunt acorn
ok
queen drift
contenders eu is currently on a 7m long ad break
balmy wolf
LUL
queen drift
now 10m, 5m timer left
dusky tinsel
oh hey Contendies is on
marsh pumice
xqc banned again?
upper niche
yay!
sullen berry
one fortnight (2 weeks) away from debunking this
If away skins are being made available
that makes 1,160 individual team skins and 580 available to purchase at the start of season 2
upper niche
Releasing a new hero every 3 months is starting to look really profitable for OWL.
If you have only 100 dedicated fans who buy everything for each of 20 teams, at $7 each, it adds up. If you have 1,000, then yeah.
sullen berry
not to mention how consistenly they deliver on releasing team skins with new heroes
(i know it's not that hard for them, given the palette swap and branding insert)
oh I bet there are people wicked enough to buy them all
which makes the dollar amount for 26 skins (bundle should go up?) is pretty legit to folks
upper niche
huh, wait, I thought the other CA team was Vancouver.
gaunt acorn
@sullen berry god damnit obi
WE ARE NOT TORONTO
@upper niche IT IS
and we already have a good idea of what vancouver's branding is
fleet walrus
What would Vancouver be
gaunt acorn
titans -- green/blue/white -- yeti/sasquatch logo
fleet walrus
how tf did you get in my mind I was just thinking giants
gaunt acorn
the giants are already our minor league hockey team
molten skiff
gaunt acorn
what
sullen berry
shouldn't titans be a little more questionable?
just like how we got guangzhou with the storm motif
gaunt acorn
what do you mean
ruby pendant
contenders is back for all regions?
ruby pendant
cool, gonna check out it now!
warped axle
queen drift
@vagrant niche VOD??
unborn kite
Does anyone know a good soldier 76 that streams?
torpid trench
Hey I work for a school who teaches broadcasting. I am looking for players who would let us Spectate and Shoutcast your matches! Anyone interested?
queen drift
I'm guessing NA @torpid trench ?
torpid trench
@queen drift Yes Sir
vagrant niche
@no talk#0666 ?
slow walrus
@unborn kite Galeadelade has a decent 76, but he's so off meta that I don't think anyone really plays him at a high level
he's picked by 0.48% of players
5th from last lol
unborn kite
Oh ok thanks for the information
magic zinc
There's a huuuuuge sale going on for Black Friday on the Blizzard store
And I mean huuuge discounts lol
Performance Jackets are 30, long sleeved shurts 9.50
little silo
That sale is huge
dapper canyon
lmao its still an overpriced jacket
azure tiger
Rune#22443
mint turtle
sites laggy af
queen drift
in owl no
polar topaz
You could argue that some teams play worse then they shouldve but no actually throwing has happened
It would get blown up asf if it did
rare sonnet
I wish EU store wasn’t so empty
I would like some joggers that don’t have a $12 delivery tag
More than the item 😂
@balmy wolf Whooyhal boosted away from cart in overtime so he didn’t have a death
sullen berry
season 2 merch the way to go
vagrant niche
dafran jerseys number wan
i'm still not getting one tho
i will get the Atlanta skin with the free drops they give if they continue that program
sullen berry
what if they don't 👀
gaunt acorn
they won't get rid of the drops system
if they do, they know viewership will drop
no pun intended
vagrant niche
i'm still going to watch the league tho
sullen berry
I would imagine less people watching even with drops added
vagrant niche
i watch it cause i like it, not cause of the drops
gaunt acorn
why not both
i didn't really care about games like shock vs mayhem
but i still watched for the drops
warped axle
I watch matches I care about but if the match is boring I'll leave it on for the drops
ruby pendant
lol, not sure if this is a good sign for OWL if people are only staying for loots!
gaunt acorn
you think it's normal for someone to watch every single match?
sullen berry
Activision's definition of normal would be buying the theoretical limit of league tokens
Purchasing blizzard arena season passes to watch them live and one shirt per team
ruby pendant
It's only a concern, Dray! @sullen berry Might be joking, but could be possible in the next few years.
torpid trench
Hey I work for a school who teaches broadcasting. I am looking for players who would let us Spectate and Shoutcast your matches! Anyone interested?
pearl stratus
Not really a ton in this channel - this is more contenders/OWL related. I would try the community channels potentially or maybe try dropping a line to people like Jayne who organize a lot of pugs and stuff.
rare sonnet
@torpid trench Jayne’s PUG channel is quite active atm because of recent community stuff, could ask there as well as in Contenders discords or on Reddit
vagrant niche
Why does Kabaji sounds so much like Dafran?
queen drift
Happens
There’s like 6 of them that sound the same
Kabaji Dafran Kragiee And then a couple lesser known ones
Same thing as Danteh/Sinatraa sounding alike
slow walrus
I heard that kabaji and dafran were brothers but idk about that
karmic grotto
They're not brothers
Just a coincidence that they both sound the same and play the same heroes
rare sonnet
They’re from completely different countries
Like not even neighbors
But dafran and kragie have danish accents
So does bart_ow
balmy wolf
tepid bough
warped axle
gaunt acorn
let's not
calm scroll
shut heart
can someone rank with me i m europe and master
karmic grotto
@calm scroll no ads
green stump
@calm scroll remove your link from this channel and put it in #video-content
pearl stratus
Ugh Hangzhou, on paper, looks SO good.
green stump
.... 3 more months and contenders at the moment ain't doing it for me
pearl stratus
Contenders China is the only one worth watching
NA and EU can fuck right off.
Fuck bois can't play anything but goats.
green stump
Aussie is the same as well ..
pearl stratus
CN Contenders right now is throwing out some weird as shit comps.
They ran a 2-0-4 the other day.
Lucio, Brig, Ana, Zen
Went as 2/2 high ground low ground split.
Ana and Zen sat up top and protected either other. Lucio and Brig went aggro.
pearl stratus
China and Korea are both willing to try weird shit.
It's why I watch them.
EU and NA are, overall, pretty bad at thinking outside the box.
EU especially - imo.
pearl stratus
I doubt it will become a thing, its easily counterable.
But it was a like a trick play.
You only need it to work one map
vagrant niche
i'm talking about future support heroes enabling it
pearl stratus
I mean we'll have goats for a few more months.
vagrant niche
i have no idea, but that Echo character screams to me as flying shields
pearl stratus
Since its just buffed on the PTR
green stump
I think dallas has a better pr manager than most of the teams
pearl stratus
I just hope in the next three months we get enough changes to limit just how much Goats we'll see.
Because all these ladder friendly changes are just making Goats stronger.
vagrant niche
you know what i was thinking
i remember you said that you want no more teams on queue right?
i think they should do the opposite
put 6 stacks as much with other people
so people get incentive to actually group up and make more grups
after all, all my groups are randoms that i get on the LFT
the queue times are long sure, but i get higher chance of better games
and people cooperating
and people will always hate whatever meta it is
it doesn't matter what it is
i remember people loved GOATS before most people knew about it
i remember i was like, lets run it, and people had no idea what it was
now because almost everybody knows it, people dislike it
it will be the same on whatever next meta we get
sullen berry
dusk hinge
Ew
Also speaking of CN contenders, it sucked to see laboratory lose
They ran an interesting 3 dps comp
sullen berry
@gaunt acorn criteria for fakes:
- does it show the goddam logo
- is it showing the name
- does it say Vancouver Titans
This one did their homework but this doesn't have the same vibe as the others.
Leaks didn't quite get the right colour for hangzhou logo and we ended up with pink
gaunt acorn
@sullen berry it is fake
sullen berry
How was it confirmed (so fast)?
gaunt acorn
benchmob said as much
balmy wolf
zen is already useless
gaunt acorn
Twitter
sullen berry
🛡 soon™
Also the way this trip to blizzcon had been described by their GM I would be convinced xQc's right click failing was the only blizzcon hiccups
gaunt acorn
Guxue lost $700 the day after we arrived. He searched the entire hotel room for a long timem, and we were all worried that he would be tilted before playing on stage. Xiaogui and I even decided that if he couldn’t get his money back, each of us would give him $350 to calm him down.
lmfao
sullen berry
It took me a while to understand that wasn't $700 for a "long time"
gaunt acorn
On the first day, Leave’s nose started bleeding during training. It was bleeding so hard we were super scared. We asked him what happened and he said he was picking his nose.
👏
gaunt acorn
Guxue ate instant noodles that he bought from a convenience at the hotel, and he said he really enjoyed them.