#esports-discussion
raven aspen
sullen berry
@raven aspen I would point out that knowing where your opponents head might be around a corner, even for zarya given the arc distance and zero crit could totally be a coincidence
pearl stratus
I mean I doubt it entirely still.
raven aspen
it looks to locky
sullen berry
too brief to know for sure imo
pearl stratus
At 42-4500 SR thats not exactly a hard, or non-predicted, shot.
sullen berry
I don't like going into nitty details, but it's worth scruitinizing
pearl stratus
Shit I can do it.
raven aspen
but still its kinda fishy
look at it
like he locks on it looks right as he turns the corner
then he kinad moves off the head
look at it
slowly moves off the head
then shoots
for no reason
rustic plaza
fishy shit always happen and this one is not very fishy
rustic plaza
because how common that crosshair placement is
sullen berry
you should see silkthread's WASD movement if you're that concerned
pearl stratus
Moving off the head is for the arc
rustic plaza
like even i have super fishy clips of myself
raven aspen
idk it looks fishy to me
like
he is not locked on but when he turns the corner
he finally locks onto his head
and then moves off
see when he turns the corner hes not on lock
he moves a tiny bit to the head
rustic plaza
hes just placing his crosshair
raven aspen
then moves away and shoots for no reason
rustic plaza
where he expects the choke to be
raven aspen
idk its fishy but wth
sullen berry
for no reason
pearl stratus
No reason = Arc.
raven aspen
arc?
rustic plaza
hes just spamming
pearl stratus
Her right click is an arc.
raven aspen
i dont play the game much
pearl stratus
It drops.
raven aspen
ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
raven aspen
no u syleza
pearl stratus
Because he's adjusting for the arc 😛
vagrant niche
yeah i spam sometimes too
sullen berry
accuracy at a certain point is a non-critical metric outside of the dps category
because it includes all these spam shots
raven aspen
vagrant niche
if you are pharah, junkrat, you better spam sometimes
rustic plaza
https://streamable.com/5vorz look at the last shot
am i cheating
no i am not
csgo has piles of gifs and videos
of people hovering over people through walls
vagrant niche
flick
sullen berry
good aim
rustic plaza
o u actually think im cheating
sullen berry
did you know
rustic plaza
this was not expected
sullen berry
taimou has good aim
raven aspen
thats hella geyyy
vagrant niche
flick shot reactions,
vagrant niche
what an interesting fella
rustic plaza
u think im cheating too?
balmy wolf
thats even worse than necros' lock on
like the beginning tells me youre probably some mid gm hitscan main
balmy wolf
but that lock on is either the luckiest shot you pulled off and are tryna circle jerk on the ow subreddit, or a very accurate auto lock on
your choice
balmy wolf
choice 1 it is
green stump
Lol @rustic plaza your scaring people
queen drift
It’s really rare to see a flick under 1 frame, what sens do you play on?
Best shot I have recorded recently
polar pasture
heard that nyxl added flow3r
thanks 4 coming, every other team, you may concede the rest of the league now
polar pasture
nah jk atlanta got dafran, nyxl can pack their bags
torpid charm
limber pine
Hyping two dps that may be bench players
verbal roost
Have they matched up against each other before?
hidden vault
Hmm what so great about dafran
pearl stratus
Dafran hasn't played in like.. 16 months Iggy.
he got banned from contenders.
And fl0w3r, before his injuries, was good enough to make World Cup teams.
But you've got one who hurt himself twice and had to change his aiming style which altogether made him hit a plateau in Contenders, then didn't even do that well in Contenders on XL2 in the first place.
And the other who said he'd rather flip burgers than be a pro anymore, and hasn't played in a competitive environment in a long time.
It'll be interesting.
verbal roost
Like the movie kingpin
pearl stratus
I think fl0w3r will do fine, he's a flex and he's still not horrible if they can get him near his OWWC level.
But the player skill in 2017 OWWC and now is a drastic difference.
I think he and Libero will make for an interesting duo.
surreal lichen
SBB, Pine, Libero, JJonak, Flower (OwO) Why does NYXL need so many DPS
gaunt acorn
because libero and pine sucked at minecraft pvp
pearl stratus
Also there's no more Zenyatta really, so they lost their best dps.
Right now Pine and SBB are redundant for the most part minus very specific maps where you -need- Tracer and Widow.
Libero is by far their most valuable player in the dps role.
sullen berry
@gaunt acorn delusional as it may seem, i mean... they could keep their power position at the top?
since he gone back from nanohana to flow3r again, he must be ready to start his redemption story
gaunt acorn
it's like the fifth time he's changed his name
sullen berry
nanohana is marketable if his performance will no longer returns in season 2
gaunt acorn
show us more branding already
torpid charm
Anyone watching KR Contenders trials??
balmy wolf
So apparently Blizzard is fucking up Path to pro
Getting rid of LAN matches, reducing contenders prize pools, etc.
Reddit is blowing up about it anyway
the leaks came out about 12 hours ago
theyre still leaks
without any confirmation
Oh so it was leaks
but.. i dont doubt them doing stuff like that
I didn’t know
so far theres been no confirmation, the only "reputable" source is MasterOverwatch but no direct Blizzard info
I can see them dropping LAN and the prize pool but I'd be surprised if they actually changed the requalification thing
Yeah I mean I really do hope they aren’t true, because they are basically killing the eSports scene by doing this
not really
if anything theyre helping with t1 now
But the t2 and t3 scene need as much support too
heres their perspectic
perspective*
t2 costs a decent amount of money to set up LAN and organize
The risk is too great in order to players to work towards the OWL
t2 BARELY rakes in any money for blizzard
if anything, contenders is a net loss for them and quite a hefty one financially
if anything they most likely are dropping first party support BUUUUT will help with the third party t2 scene
thats the underhanded "balance" i can see happening + will be ok with
limber pine
From what I’ve seen, all of the leaks are true, but almost all of them have more to the point
balmy wolf
I'm 100% assuming what we saw isnt the full story
i.e. the exact amount the prize pool is dropping or the reasoning behind requalification
limber pine
I mean almost all of it is being done for quality and consistency
Winner are better compensated, teams stay more consistent
lime bridge
Not sure about that
I mean dropping all "non academy" teams back to trials ?
How is that good for anyone but the OWL teams that have invested in an academy team ?
balmy wolf
there's a LOT of extremely shady third party organizations that make hefty false promises
this can act as quality control since academy teams are already under heavy administration
lime bridge
I get that a lot of players had to go through false promises and everybody is ok that this is malpractice
But dropping ALL non academy teams from contenders as a result ?
I mean, in EU they have just one academy team
Everybody else... bye bye !
(And btw the Hurricanes ranked something like 8th so yeah great example for the "path to pro")
balmy wolf
didn't hurricanes win one or something
8th in a minor league isn't... bad
all of contenders are infinitely better than me and I'm only top collegiate
lime bridge
Yeap
You are right they won ONE game
I find it hard to call this a path to pro when basically the better teams get dropped just because they don't have a sister team in OWL
karmic grotto
^
lime bridge
But yeah I know that Blizz is trying to put some order in T2
But i think seeing T2 as a way to make money is already a bad Idea. Contender is always going to be a financial loss, but it's a natural way to scout great players for top teams . If T2 is stable and allows to actually be a pro, it will get more people to try and compete in competitive OW.
But if they turn Contenders into a low lvl OWL with just Academy teams. I mean who wants to see that ?
limber pine
OWL
the argument though is that Contenders is not stable
if you have Season winners disbanding at the end after winning, then there are large scale issues
And Path to Pro is NOT about teams
it never has been
it's about players
For the record, I don't know if the changes will be good or bad, but I kinda see the reasoning behind them.
lime bridge
Well yeah, Path to Pro is about the players being able to become pros. And the "endemic" teams try to exploit that dream giving them false hopes of getting paid to play T2 overwatch, that's the problem actually.
Because Contenders doesn't draw enough viewership -> so it doesn't draw enough Sponsors -> so it doesnt draw enough money to the orgs to pay their players what they promised them.
(and it's not just about players not getting paid, the support staff also gets conned sometimes)
I absolutely get the logic behind the choices of Blizzard regarding Contenders, but yeah the one about relegating all non academy teams still is hard to swallow for me
pearl stratus
@balmy wolf The other video translation that.. I think Noukky posted shows a bit more of why they wanted to do what they wanted to do. Switching to a more academy focused and double season of Contenders releases a lot of financial and oversight burden for them which is where they fall into the black.
And they legitimately think more academy support provides more players with a stable environment versus the third party support orgs which are ruining a lot of the name by not paying, blocking, etc.
If you make a system safe enough for all OWL teams to want to create an Academy team (whether in NA, etc) you potentially open up 12 new contenders teams that are backed by static organizations (since OWL orgs can never defunct. If they fuck up Blizzard takes it over till new buyers are found).
Estimating maybe 6-10 players per team you're looking at 72-120 players with actual stable organization support.
Third party things like GGEA and all the other contenders groups that fail to pay anyone could be avoided.
lime bridge
Yeah... but the regions are not balanced
pearl stratus
You can do some effort of region locking, which is what @limber pine and I both found mentioned (that we can't find again).
But the problem comes from culture not on contenders for that.
Korean culture actually embraces their e-sports and funds it.
Other regions don't.
Thats not a Blizzard problem.
That's a people problem.
Requiring them to fix it to make some lowkey racism happy means you can muddy the water to have a lot of shittier players in for quota.
lime bridge
No the problem is that if they put the emphasys on Academy teams there are just.. 2 potential academy teams for 2019
in EU for example
pearl stratus
EU managed 3k viewers on average for contenders.
EU doesnt' give a fuck about contenders
So why support them?
I'm not saying that EU doesn't produce popular players but eventually the bottom line has to be looked at.
If you have a region that actively refuses to even glance at their own T2 scene, its a potential sacrifice.
South America, despite having nearly no pro players, has solid T2 viewers.
pearl stratus
Yeah but people are always blaming Blizzard for it, which I get.
karmic grotto
Isn't it a fact that most people are focused on higher tier matches? I've heard that T3/T4 can be fun because teams trying out things that T1/T2 don't do. (sorry for using 2 mixed things)
pearl stratus
But most of the fault is on us as viewers.
We whine and bitch and cry about how everyone needs to support these precious angels and pay them millions of dollars so they don't starve.
Then no one watches the damn games.
karmic grotto
^
pearl stratus
Which is the only actual way to support them.
karmic grotto
I am interested in watching, but if only the big guys get attention, then my attention swifts to that since others do the same. You'll end up with a little viewers for lower tier
pearl stratus
Look at it from Region (btw I was wrong on EU, so I apologize, got them confused with Pacific)
NA Contenders Average Viewers: 6.3k
EU Average: 7.3k
Pacific: 2.9k
South America: 8.4k
Korea: 21k
I'm not counting China because their viewer numbers are always skewed.
karmic grotto
Korea, yeah. Koreans
pearl stratus
Those, minus Korea, are not sustainable numbers.
karmic grotto
Pacific is pathetic
pearl stratus
Third party orgs looking for funding to make their teams successful cannot base around that for money. You need a set amount of viewers.
It's not an OW region, for the most part.
pearl stratus
Well for OWL Noah at one point originally mentioned, start of season, that 40k+ would be considered successful, this has obviously gone up since then.
So I would assume, for a T2 scene, you'd ideally want half of that.
But those viewer numbers would be an economic concept I don't have the knowledge for
So its just my assumption.
But I do understand, economically, you don't want to back and support something that's never seen. That tends to be bad branding.
Dr.Disrespect with his infidelity and stupid moustache gets 500% of the viewers of NA Contenders 😛
lime bridge
That's why I' saying that Contenders will always be a monetary loss (except in korea where it's basically APEX 2.0 for them)
pearl stratus
But you can stem how much the loss is.
Removing LAN, for instance, helps get closer to the black.
Providing support to the Academies takes a lot of financial burden off because they'll pay the players, as well as potentially house/feed them.
To me Blizzard is following more of the steps to convert over to your traditional, North American, Minor league team system.
Where your primary backers for your T2 scene is your T1 scene.
karmic grotto
If Blizzard could pull off to start its own TV-channel for e-sports, would that help?
lime bridge
Yeah I feel also this way, but as an EU sports/esports fan this is kind of a blasphemy 😄
pearl stratus
Yeah but thats part of your regions issue in general.
EU has separate problems, many countries many identities.
Making them all work together for contenders is already a shit show.
@karmic grotto They don't need to if they can keep their partnership with Disney that had for the Grand Finals running.
That provides them access to Disney and ESPN.
I think this does suck for regions without representation in OWL, don't get me wrong.
But I understand why.
I think some amount of region locking could help too, especially if you do it by "home" country and not current location.
I.E: HG, CD, GZ would all require a certain amount of roster slots from China, Paris from EU, London from EU, etc.
lime bridge
Their Academy teams or their OWL teams you mean ?
lime bridge
Yeah, I'm down for that
mint turtle
In theory that's good, in practice, Korea wins every time
pearl stratus
They already do for Contenders.
So what.
Literally no change.
But you get more local region representation either way.
limber pine
region locking?
pearl stratus
Also Seouls Academy team would be participating in Korean Contenders, I would assume.
limber pine
there's no region locking currently in contenders AFAIK
lime bridge
I don't know about Pacific but yeah the Hurricanes is allready EU stacked
pearl stratus
@limber pine Talking about upcoming plans.
limber pine
oh well yeah
pearl stratus
Someone in one of the comment threads mentioned 3/8 as the number being floated at the moment.
Which seems fair.
Also I think if the academy system works out we'll start, potentially, seeing more corporate sponsorship like we see out of Chinese Contenders, or Samsung.
lime bridge
It's still kind of a bargain on people's "passion" to play pro
Because if i say to you , yeap you can path to pro , win contenders, and still get sent back to trials
without being paid or getting a slot in a OWL team
pearl stratus
I think, potentially, part of that is due to the OWL pick ups and wanting to rebalance every year. I thought of this after.
Like take Korean Contenders. Runaway dominated it, and gets free entry to next season right?
But all of their players got drafted for OWL.
So you're getting free entry for an entirely new group.
Who may not even be competition at this point.
KDP got second, KDP doesn't exist anymore realistically. Coach gone, entire team gone.
Now if thats the case of why they chose it I think a fair middle ground would be 'If you win and your roster goes unchanged, you keep relegation'.
But I don't think we'll ever know 100% the why.
lime bridge
I guess even if one or two players get picked by OWL you should have your spot. You earned it .
I mean Academy teams getting spots in contenders feels more like "nepotism"
Daddy is in OWL so i'm in contenders
pearl stratus
Depends, if the one are two are your tank line for instance that drastically can destroy your team.
You want that though.
Because it provides stable grounds for players.
Instead of "Org didn't pay us."
lime bridge
Yeah and no, if you're crappy you'r relegated
pearl stratus
Think of how many contenders teams we've had this year just..
Not pay players.
Or just shut down randomly.
And release everyone.
lime bridge
No matter how well you treat your players, having bad performance shouldnt get you a spot in contenders
glacial bear
ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
pearl stratus
So more people should fail 😛
Because if I'm a T1 team I'm not investing in T2 at all if I have potential, like current, to lose money on my investment constantly.
I have my OWL team so far.
I don't give a fuck about the peons.
I can just pick up more Koreans when I need to replace players, anyway.
lime bridge
Well you should pick up better players then 😄
lime bridge
We'll see about that
queen drift
?
pearl stratus
Don't have to worry about third party orgs.
They've got feeder teams.
It's a perfect ground for getting new people.
It's tongue in cheek hyperbole but do you see my overexaggerated point?
Even if your Academy team isn't the best having constant representation from a region is still better than nothing.
Your T2 third party orgs become feeders for the academy teams
Which become feeders to OWL.
Thats whats beautiful about Korean Contenders/Apex, etc.
queen drift
I feel like ability isn’t going to be the deciding factor between Koreans and western players
More likely pay
pearl stratus
There's been leaks that Contenders is going with some potential region locking Fox, which we established a bit earlier before you were around.
pearl stratus
Also none of the Academy teams even did -that- badly.
lime bridge
I mean yeap , if your contenders team is ... 8th why not drop your roster and pick up the 1st contenders team in your region
pearl stratus
Everyones freaking out over them getting in automatically when most of the contenders teams did acceptably.
FU going to Trials just bumps out more teams anyway.
Especially if they expand the number of Academy teams (which was mentioned)
So say you get your 14 "automatically" in.
Then you still allow the same amount as before.
You're just making Contenders bigger.
More player showcase.
pearl stratus
Hey.
XL2 had a player play from Korea.
With no LAN finals you could have players play from other regions with the slightly higher ping.
EU people play on NA ladder constantly already anyway.
Now if you're at 200+, yeah you're probably screwed.
But 80-110 is doable.
Or if you're good enough you get a flex contract with an OWL and you're moving here anyway.
Also sadly minus EU most players from SA or Pacific already set NA contenders as their goal.
Providing opportunities for more of them isn't bad.
Imagine moving Brazil to NA contenders.
That'd be awesome.
Or giving opportunities to move Trill over to NA contenders.
ETc.
queen drift
I’m just imagining like a massive contenders hotel
pearl stratus
"Blizzards Contenders Camp."
queen drift
Imagine Shanghai bass on like a 20x scale
lime bridge
Yeah, I guess we'll always have different point of views because of the way our regions work
Blizzard's move makes sense for NA
But is a shitshow for EU
pearl stratus
I think EU will be okay though.
You guys have some pretty successful long term Orgs.
Like this change won't affect Gigantii at all.
queen drift
Has Davin been picked up yet
pearl stratus
Gigantii, Eagle, Orgless, etc. I don't forsee them going anywhere.
They've all had long term financial backing and maintained easily.
pearl stratus
😛
lime bridge
Disbanded
pearl stratus
I know.
That was me looping to my point from before.
About teams just going boom.
I play the long con!
lime bridge
Yeah, point made but still, Hurricanes are shit.
pearl stratus
I mean duh. They have EU players 😉
lime bridge
Expensive, well payed, well fed , OWL sister team , shit.
pearl stratus
All jokes aside, I agree. I think if they could avoid thinking about it and not worry about things they would have picked up the remaining Eagles players, etc.
Also despite being shit, they had players move up to OWL.
So the system is working like Blizz designed long term.
lime bridge
When I say shit I mean relatively to other contenders teams don't get me wrong
they all are great players
pearl stratus
They lost tank and healer to Boston.
lime bridge
and deserve their spot
pearl stratus
So if they picked up say.. Eagles players to replace.
And Paris got an Academy.
You'd have two feeder orgs in EU.
Which would be a goal join for most third party players.
lime bridge
Well, it's up to Germany to move it's ass !
lilac atlas
Lol, honestly thought they would be scared by SHD
lime bridge
I see Berlin or Cologne having a spot
pearl stratus
I was actually surprised how little EU moved for spots in Season 1, and Season 2.
queen drift
Eu is too spread out
There aren’t enough people in any given country to warrant a team
lime bridge
Money in EU is sto spread out 😄
lilac atlas
But berlin is a huge esports scene
queen drift
Except UK and France
pearl stratus
You guys also low key hate each other so much.
Every ladder player in EU hates the EU ladder.
queen drift
Low key?
pearl stratus
Alright maybe not lowkey.
That many languages on one ladder just sounds like a shit storm of frustration.
lime bridge
Next spot Moscow ?
queen drift
There are a few decent EU teams but no solid EU countries for a franchise. UK/FR and MAYBE Germany
pearl stratus
Germany could manage one pretty easily.
Denmark/Finland could too if they had the money.
lime bridge
Norway is full of cash
queen drift
Not many live there though
lime bridge
They could make a spot for all scandinavia
pearl stratus
Finland produces a lot of good players, I just don't see them as being lucrative enough for it.
queen drift
Would be kinda dumb to make a franchise there
queen drift
Or not and have a rivalry
pearl stratus
One Elk versus Many.
queen drift
Elk vs the imposter
pearl stratus
Like the Kangaroo War in Australia.
queen drift
Ostrich
queen drift
Not kangaroo
pearl stratus
Not Kangaroo.
lime bridge
A russian spot for all Russian ukranian latvian estonian players
pearl stratus
All 7 of them
lime bridge
There yo go
queen drift
Careful saying Russian Ukrainian lol
lime bridge
Yeah
pearl stratus
Just go retro and get two teams out of germany.
lime bridge
They actually get along in game
lime bridge
Just.. not in real life
queen drift
The ‘Crimea Indecisive’
lime bridge
There you go Overwatch Bridging communities
pearl stratus
Germany could get so many neat team names too.
Blitzkrieg, Panzer, etc. Angry language makes great team names.
queen drift
See for example the Netherlands would be amazing
But not for a franchise
Gaming is huge in Holland
But it’s too small
pearl stratus
Ah yes, the Windmills.
Whats always baffled me is there's so few global orgs outside of Korea that maintain multiple contenders rosters.
glacial bear
Yea true
lime bridge
Neon Pink or we riot
glacial bear
Has to be
I really dont mind magenta either though
atlanta ascension sounds hella better though
balmy wolf
glacial bear
But are we not forgetting people getting in with no skill
Dude Im really happy for runaway tbh
Best team
Best colour
I wish dafran doesnt get banned fingers crossed
ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
balmy wolf
Cheers
dusk hinge
sullen berry
is this the source?
dusk hinge
I think so
lime bridge
I'm spreading this
pearl stratus
In this thread: Contenders players make about as much as some minor league baseball players, but think they're special 😉
green stump
Lol
pearl stratus
Minor League baseball always impressed me with its viciousness.
60 hours weeks, earn $5500 a season, then you get legislation that removes even a minimum wage
limber pine
sullen berry
👀
limber pine
pretty much exactly what I heard
sullen berry
" Contenders will reduce the total number of teams in each region from 12 to eight. We believe that this change will bring up the overall level of competition, which will serve to better hone Contenders players and provide more entertaining matches. "
This change has yet to be confirmed for Contenders China.
pearl stratus
It probably won't change for China, honestly.
sullen berry
what could china do, really
pearl stratus
They have such a huge player base and lots of local support, similar to Korea.
Just slightly below on the player skill level.
If it develops further it gives a second huge region to feed into OWL.
limber pine
plus OWL has 4 Chinese teams now
sullen berry
exactly, they have the financial leverage to say "fuck your NA/EU academy invites"
pearl stratus
Imagine if everyone in Chinas pro scene got closer to MY.
limber pine
assuming EU eventually gets more, EU contenders will probably increase eventually as well
pearl stratus
That'd be insane.
sullen berry
so that's going to include more china academy teams, which is a nice gesture
pearl stratus
The biggest thing that people do in situations like this is think too much like a person.
And not like a business.
Follow the money.
China = Money.
They just spent roughly 105 million on new OWL teams.
If the 35 mill buy in estimate was correct.
Also if the rumored rosters are true they've actually got some decently diverse teams.
Which is nice.
Not to mention the new Chinese contenders team thats actively looking to salary players and bring them to Shanghai from a global perspective.
Also looks like we were right on the soft region lock @limber pine
Soft region locking is being introduced to ensure that Contenders continues to develop local talent all around the world. Contenders teams can have a maximum of three non-resident players on their roster. We feel that this will lead to the healthiest global competitive ecosystem in the long term
Contenders NA being split too is pretty smart.
Lowers people being missed visually due to bloat.
NA technically went from 12 to 8, but then made into two regions.
So they went up to 16.
With 5/8 of the roster being region locked that means a minimum of 90 NA players at any given time.
@lime bridge Academy teams only get a free pass for Season 1 of 2019 - and only if they DON'T currently have a team.
Season 2 they undergo the same relegation as everyone else.
Blizzard is hard pushing static orgs to buy teams in and get the free pass to play contenders right off the bat.
pearl stratus
Yeah, and no more worrying about Academy teams being given a free pass if they're bad.
Just for the first season.
green stump
@pearl stratus which creates stronger franchising and player stability
pearl stratus
Basically they're looking to grow the contenders brand with real organizations and franchising.
Then let it settle back in.
@green stump Yeah which is what I've been arguing since they announced it 😛
I don't often side with Blizzard.
But when I do, its usually because I don't think of people as people so I understand their decisions lol
green stump
Lol the rumor was very hogwash
pearl stratus
The rumor was all the negatives.
With none of the positives or realization.
I think the region locking is going to be huge either way.
green stump
@limber pine oh look at that, it's almost like they want to bring stability and foundation to the contenders scene instead of letting it be a hot mess
pearl stratus
Its something that should have been done forever ago.
green stump
Yeah but contender players are trying to say it's the end of the world, but it's more like an end to a free ride
pearl stratus
Honestly if there's more academy teams it will end up better for them.
idle beacon
so much discussing
pearl stratus
Since they'll be picked up by real orgs.
idle beacon
wtf is going on? 😮
pearl stratus
Not third party wish-washy things.
lime bridge
We'll see
pearl stratus
The two NA regions are actually huge.
There's a lot more visibility in 8 teams over 12.
And breaking NA up means you don't get lost in a sea of people.
green stump
This makes the na scene look WAY more promising that's for sure and will get the EU scene to finally start making sense
pearl stratus
The only thing I didn't see that I was expecting
Was them to move the Contenders schedule.
Season 1 should be in like.. July to September, Season 2 from October to December.
Move it opposite of OWL.
You'll automatically increase your numbers of viewers.
Since people right now are hungry for games to watch without OWL.
But they may still announce that.
pearl stratus
Yeah you do OWWC in between the breaks in the seasons imo.
The Qualifiers take two days.
Then you have Blizzon.
You could make professional OW span nearly the entire year if you time it right.
Overlapping events ruins your own viewer pool.
green stump
I just found it funny how many people were in panic mode, screaming that blizzards was killing the scene
green stump
And now that the announcement came out, many of them are going
.. Wait.... That actually sounds good...
pearl stratus
It does hurt EU a bit
To have teams cut down to 8
But not a ton since they never usually have 8 really strong teams (no offense EU)
limber pine
it hurts KR and EU just cuz they export the most amount of players
green stump
But they can now
pearl stratus
It does hurt Korea, I will admit that.
lime bridge
I'll be laughing so hard if Hurricanes don't make the cut in S2
pearl stratus
They can't just export entire teams to other regions Contenders.
So it also stymies the flow of Koreans and imports a higher quality marker on who you pick up from Korea.
I don't know if this is good or bad yet.
I think you could honestly make two regions for Korea.
And they probably should.
green stump
They want to have a healthy growth between all the regions and equal.
This looks like something made by the sports committee that OW is partnered with. Probably something like 'you for way too many Koreans, need to make all the regions get better to compete or we went have a diverse scene anymore'
lime bridge
Two regions like... North Korea and South Korea ?
pearl stratus
I'd say east or west 😛
North Korea is still playing original starcraft
And compiling resources.
green stump
It makes sense because they want that esports money to grow in the other countries to encourage further sponsorship
pearl stratus
Yeah but Korea is too big for just 8 teams.
Internally them getting NA treatment makes sense.
Look at Meta and Kongdoo.
They have two teams each (Athena/Bellum, Uncia/Pan)
That's half of Korea taken up by two teams.
green stump
It could be, but it might be too create a better quality Korean contenders player, if they all compete to get that spot, you'll get an overall better player in the end
pearl stratus
You already get amazing players out of those orgs though.
They're basically feeder orgs.
They've historically started the process of people who went to the top tier orgs, who then went to OWL.
Lowering that could be detrimental.
green stump
But they need to be marketable as well.
They want more runaways, jjonak, pine, they want to create more of those levels of marketable players
pearl stratus
I think they already have it, but that could be an arguable point.
I can name more Korean Contenders teams than any other region because of their quality and skill.
And I don't even follow contenders.
green stump
From a business sense, I can see what they are doing. They want to increase the value of a player, it's a path to pro after all, and the steps on that path need to be much more clear and a struggle to overcome.
pearl stratus
I just think Korea will probably get an exception to the 8 rule due to quality + quantity.
Even if you just keep them at 12.
Should be fine.
The initial backlash won't happen till next year though.
When a lot of Contenders roster have to let a lot of people go lol
green stump
I guess we will see as I'm sure Korea and China will have questions for to their own scenes
pearl stratus
None of the rules apply to China yet, which is smart.
Also Korean Contenders will still be on LAN for their tournaments.
So it looks like regions have their own influence.
green stump
Which is very good, that whole no lan thing sounded...odd
pearl stratus
It makes sense, its expensive.
But Korea has return on investment.
So they can afford it as a region.
green stump
Perhaps it's more that you have the opinion
pearl stratus
It's also a much smaller area for Korea, no ferrying people from all over.
Like EU has to be a mess for LAN. Visas, cross country travelling, etc.
It's still funny to think that like...
South Korea is 1/7 of Texas.
green stump
I think the region lock was the best thing in this though
pearl stratus
I think the first season of contenders will suffer for it.
But in the long run its the best move by far.
green stump
Absolutely
green stump
Lol but it will make people more interested in their contender teams when your cheering for your own country, as bad as it seems, that's really important
pearl stratus
Yeah.
But like.. look at Fusion University.
They basically have to rebuild their roster (which they already had to do because of pick ups)
green stump
Plus this actually lines up with another rumor
pearl stratus
I'm just waiting for the season timing change, then that will be most important.
green stump
With multiple universities and colleges trying to create esports scholarships
pearl stratus
Then the region lock 😛
I will say this is great for supporting best of best teams
Like BGH is probably rock hard right now reading the news.
Same with Drop Bears.
calm stirrup
#pathtopoverty
pearl stratus
Only if you're shit.
And if you're shit you were going to be poor anyway.
And probably shouldn't stay in Contenders 😛
I wonder how much the collegiate leagues will grow as Contenders talent gets narrowed down
That'll be a nice change too, actually.
green stump
Too bad the players who are going to lose their t2 spots are going to do anything possible to take others down with them
pearl stratus
Oh I'm sure.
You know what I just realized as I made a little rant post.
Contenders is like a Facebook Tragedy.
People are sitting around like 1 Like = 1 Prayer, #Contendersblessed, #HelpContenders.
But they don't actually do the one thing which helps it.
Which is god damn watch the games.
No one cares about your twitter support, or your facebook likes.
Just watch the god damn game.
pearl stratus
limber pine
REEEEEpost
green stump
Glad that some structure to contenders is coming
pearl stratus
I'm trying to ask a question without it sounding snarky, but its not going well.
So I know with most physical sports minor leagues the off-season is spent typically working (and still practicing) but primarily grinding out enough cash to float you through with your bare minimum salary during your games season.
Do... Contenders players even do that?
Or do they just cry a bunch.
Cause you can't eat tears.
pearl stratus
Yes, its the same in the low tiers of the MLB and NFL.
This isn't new.
Or special.
I'm asking do they actually work.
balmy wolf
most have other jobs and such or still live at home
pearl stratus
Low end MLB is $5500 for a 5 month season, NFL is a little higher due to chance of career ending injury.
balmy wolf
contenders players either have a job for their primary income, live at home, or are salaried through academy
pearl stratus
I'm more making sure they're actually doing something during the off-season.
balmy wolf
well yeah
pearl stratus
Because the random expectation for a livable wage for tier 2 is actually baffling to me since it historically...
Doesn't happen.
MLB minors sued for a livable wage, and Economic reform earlier this year removed them even having protection for minimum wage XD
balmy wolf
its more of the very little they were given was just reduced
although im still waiting to hear the actual numbers of what its reduced to
t2 in of itself has always been a meme
pearl stratus
It wasn't reduced, it was reappropriated to the higher tiers judging by the release.
Which I'm okay with.
I don't think you should get a prize for coming in fourth.
That's just third loser.
balmy wolf
the initial feedback was "lower prize pools", which is what everyone was reacting to
now with the realignment stuff
im holding out to hear the actual number differences
pearl stratus
I'm assuming it will go to a more standard 50/35/15ish percentage split, but I'll wait to see the numbers.
limber pine
somebody tell me how to feel about Aid and Lycan
pearl stratus
I'm so-so on Aid, he's had a weird track history (rip GGEA) but he's not bad, probably one of their better players.
Lycan is coming out of Ardeont.
So he'll be solid, like everyone out of Ardeont has been.
Probably not top tier for either of them.
I'd guess mid-line.
green stump
How is Boston doing after all the drama
limber pine
They seem to be moving right along
green stump
Drama has come and gone so fast
balmy wolf
they handled it well
pearl stratus
As much as people don't always want to agree with the owner, the Kraft org handles stuff like that insanely efficiently.
From football to e-sports. They're quick, efficient, and to the point with typically no unnecessary talking points.
green stump
And makes delicious Mac and cheese :D @pearl stratus
pearl stratus
That joke was cheesy.
green stump
I think you can Kraft a better response
balmy wolf
please ban the both of them
pearl stratus
Impastable.
green stump
You sound like your jellous
pearl stratus
Thats a fusilli concept, why would be be jealous.
slow walrus
both of you can shut the pasta up
green stump
Because I'm a #1 at understanding people
pearl stratus
Twitter
Apparently Blizzard is now willing to potentially allow Third Party Tournies with no Prize pool limit.
As a concession to the contenders changes.
vagrant niche
well that's good then
vagrant niche
now other people can do their big tournaments
and players can get motivated to win
pearl stratus
It also provides more income for other contenders teams who aren't potentially good enough to win prize pool in OWLite
vagrant niche
and if they shine, they might get scouted by the league teams
is that confirmed?
or just rumors?
pearl stratus
until I see a Blizzard post itself I don't count anything confirmed.
pearl stratus
Or you see the tournaments actually happen.
vagrant niche
but i hope it actually goes through
it would be better then the current contenders
and let people do grassroots stuff
green stump
After a year of this, we should have a contenders scene that will be amazing
And owl will be better for it
pearl stratus
It's going to regress a bit at the start, and thats going to be the troubled times.
But he also mentions the proposed time change is that Contenders will be about 3 months long.
Which is a lot more visibility time for players because its consistent as opposed to spread out.
limber pine
good to see third party changes
Blizz shouldn't have ever restricted them in the way they did
pearl stratus
I think they were over worried about initial viewer numbers.
And should have made the change back pretty quickly once OWL S1 ended.
balmy wolf
called it 
green stump
?
balmy wolf
the 3rd party org thing
pearl stratus
It should have been done long ago, it relieves them of even more financial burden
I really think they just didn't want any competition for a while.
Which is selfish - but smart.
balmy wolf
fair enough, makes sense tbh
limber pine
growing pains of a franchised league
pearl stratus
It's sadly kind of a mentality shift in the generation changes. It goes faster because people have lived through it, but they're doing a 2-3 year schedule for things that took traditional sports leagues 40-50.
They're going to make mistakes, lots of them.
Gamers are also, in my opinion, one of the most obnoxious communities (myself included) to deal with, so its hard to score a win.
limber pine
yuuuuuuuuup
green stump
@limber pine but at least we know for sure it's not even close to the Doom and gloom Reddit was screaming
limber pine
It's almost never
as I've said before, the stuff leaked on Reddit was almost always half of a point to be made
plus the whole more 3rd party stuff
green stump
This time it was 1/4th
green stump
But holy crap! It's the end of contenders everyone! Get out the pitchforks
Nooope! No mention of no more lan finals
limber pine
I think it'll be fine to still add it to events like the World Cup qualifing
doesn't need to be a separate thing
green stump
Very true, but with this, regions will be more organized with a uniform style. Except EU really which will need to finally start to make things look structured
EU know how to do franchises, get on that
vagrant niche
hey my bois
i just found out a Blizzard esports app
it gives schedules and news etc
it's pretty nice, i thought some of you might not know about it
rustic plaza
the owl app that they released with owl and advertised heavily
balmy wolf
never heard of it
vagrant niche
it's this one
shows schedules etc and you can set alarms
@limber pine maybe you might want to tell others in the channel about it unless i missed it
balmy wolf
oh shit thats actually..... nice
vagrant niche
what leak?
drowsy fulcrum
Fusions and FunnyAstro
queen drift
not new
warped axle
Chengdu, if the leaks are true, looks... Pretty bad honestly.
pearl stratus
Btw.
Jayne immediately realized making a comment about the contenders rumors was a career killer
And deleted it in under 20 minutes.
Lolololol
And hasn't commented about contenders since.
Also Chengdu has a solid roster, all said and done.
queen drift
@pearl stratus what did he say?
pearl stratus
He got all indignant and whiny like everyone else.
But then realized its his paycheck.
vagrant niche
twitter causes more harm than good
only reason i have one is for granblue or entry for sweepstakes
mossy bone
Was Ana buff live in owwc group stages?
sullen berry
Excluding Incheon, first and only stage played on the previous patch
mossy bone
I’m interested in seeing how much mercy is gonna be played in this last stage
sullen berry
New sniper in the form of libero/ark
hidden vault
Inb4 triple sniper meta
sullen berry
I can't wait see more wrecking ball assasination
hybrid helm
She will probably be picked sometimes when you need lots of vertical mobility / pharmercy (It can be super good with new pharah vs goats) and also in solo healer strats if they ever do them again
sullen berry
I just remembered SK has subbed out ark for anamo
like fleta, he will put all kinds of pressure by being a known quantity from OW League
but might be unpredictable beast in the world cup roster
hybrid helm
Fleta is good for being insanely flexible
How often do you see a player who can play Genji, Pharah, mccree, and Widow all in top OWL level
Profit probably too yea but still very versatile hero pool
His Hanzo and Sombra are really good as well not sure about doomfist
sullen berry
It's no haksal carpe doomfist when fleta pops off
but he should be making the most of each other's playstyles during their scrims
I do think it's possible to run both fleta and libero
sullen berry
actually I would be impressed with quarter finals against Team UK
hybrid helm
Yes you can run Fleta and Libero. Libero has decent tracer and projectile and Fleta has good hitscan
sullen berry
because they had it just as easy in group stages
hybrid helm
Same with Australia no?
hybrid helm
Nah they are gonna get smashed by SK first I think
sullen berry
if SK play well enough to take a score off them 🐨
hybrid helm
I’m sad about China vs Finland I like both teams
Wish they would play vs other teams first
sullen berry
nah
left side bracket is very competitive
you have the two teams who both played against south korea admirably last year
finland is on a big Gigantti tour with past teammates
and also the real proving ground for zappis
round obsidian
upper niche
Hopetpfully we get a reveal of the remaining OWL teams at Blizzcon.
hidden vault
I doubt it
sullen berry
you don't think so?
pearl stratus
Bruh,
Seagullman crushed the players union thread on the reddit with his comment.
Bigbraingull.
hidden vault
No that's not the focus of Blizzcon
Blizzcon would be focused on how to improve Esports scene and owwc
The new cam viewer
Team reveals would be done on the team's own accord
Blizzard isn't gonna dictate them to reveal their team all together on one date
gaunt acorn
i don't think they'll reveal at blizzcon either
pearl stratus
I'm sure they actually have a deadline date for announcement (since they did before)
But they wouldn't tie it to Blizzcon.
mossy bone
I mean final 8 stage
hidden vault
yeah blizzard has a new cam viewer for spectators
pearl stratus
Should be today or tomorrow.
Since you know. Friday.
I'm guessing it'll be a bit jacked up for OWWC, honestly.
hidden vault
It would be interesting for SK vs China
severe hazel
Wait is Dafran really in OWL season 2?
queen drift
yes
severe hazel
Pog
pearl stratus
Local bench warmer
limber pine
green stump
XD we got it at the same time
balmy wolf
ok so I downloaded it, but it isn't workingg
is it because the world cup hasnt started yet?
its saying connection to server failed
north tendon
verbal roost
is it okay to stream the world cup viewer?
ruby pendant
pearl stratus
Yeah, I could see it being the entire game client.
Since they want it separate from the game itself.
So strip down the game, double up the map views for the camera client, etc.
vagrant rose
the wcv client will run at 144 tickrate
also the client is literally the live build but with a few extra features marked as enabled
sullen berry
surely they can come up with a smarter solution, to sell people into the game, but this is fine
pearl stratus
I mean a smarter solution that what looks to be the exact camera suite they use for the games?
Interesting call.
Bold move Cotton.
Also:
Not even given two way status.
Rip Manny.
pearl stratus
Eh he deserves an academy team slot pretty easily, just sad they didn't even keep him as a two way player.
pearl stratus
Twitter
Goes on to explain the coach that he insulted in doing this:
a.) Runs the Korean OW discord
b.) Is one of the most respected coaches in the T2/3 scene in Korea.
c.) Team Seven had a player contacted by him too.
d) Mykl has now been banned from the Korean OW Discord, and the NA competitive discord.
e.) Mykl and fucking up contenders, name a more iconic duo.
sullen berry
that's a level of savage not seen before, flaming him on twitter
pearl stratus
It gets better.]
Twitter
Twitter
I feel bad for P2.
Throwing away their chances at Contenders by picking up a shit coach and thinking it'd work out
idle beacon
why does the ow viewer need another 14gb?
seriously
14gb download?
lol nvm
instead of having a smaller folder with the owwc viewer files, interacting with the main ow installation, it copies the entire game
bad coding, blizz
upper niche
OWWC doesn't necessarily use the latest patch
hidden vault
The only way to have that sort of viewer is to actually interact with the game
gaunt acorn
Paris Eternal btw
sullen berry
@idle beacon I thought that was a missed opportunity, must have been a rush job to want to compress the download any further
torpid charm
@gaunt acorn I heard about that on Twitter & I kinda hate it
sullen berry
there's always going to be a parisian way to make it sound good
pearl stratus
Mylk also banned from the Contenders Talk Discord (didn't even know about that one)
pearl stratus
It's not even the leaking, its just being a twat. Talking to players isn't inherently bad, but its a business. You have to move with regional differences. If the Korean scene prefers you to contact management, especially during trials (This was the key I think), and you don't expect backlash.
No ones even mentioned that you -only- have to talk to management.
Just that you should make them aware of your intentions.
It could have been as simple as Mykl needing to DM Lime and go "Hey. I just wanted to let you know we lost our shotcaller and I wanted to reach out to [x] with an offer"
But being like "Hey if you come to NA for next season I can pay you [x], [y], [z]" during the middle of trials is pretty solidly tampering.
karmic grotto
I agree, it's a bit aggressive and not formal
pearl stratus
I mean for that particular region. For western organizations it may be perfectly acceptable
But if you're going to manage a team (and have done so in Contenders before - granted he also killed the team) you should know that.
pearl stratus
You love disappointment?
balmy wolf
lavish folio
what owwc games are tomorrow
lavish folio
which teams play
idle beacon
shadowburn left phili for paris? 😮
gaunt acorn
@haughty oxide post in #lf-players-na not here
gaunt wolf
karmic grotto
is this for tomorrow?
green stump
@gaunt wolf it's assumed the reason why is because it's making a full copy of your game separate from overwatch
verbal roost
ptr is a similar size too?
worn hornet
Is there a match schedule out for the WC playoffs that start tomorrow?
ember jewel
You can find one at https://worldcup.playoverwatch.com/en-us/finals
Google is a thing, y'all
green stump
Tomorrow.... The cup
idle beacon
it is actually stupid
you have the OW main data files
why do you not use the folder of the main game, and only hav the 2.5gb of VIEWER data in an extra folder?
dumb blizz
sullen berry
The same could probably be said if people haven't purchased the game so...
Unless the WCV should be available to anyone with a battle.net account
This makes the most logical sense
I believe we're less than 24 hours away from the first match, USA vs Team UK
pearl stratus
IT's also a spectating client.
It would need a base shell to run over.
Especially since tournaments can run on non-current patches.
Which means you need something that can be adjusted, on the fly, to whatever patch it is.
Unless you want to keep changing your current OW install to a pre-patch.
Plus.
It's 2018.
Who doesn't have like another TB of free space constantly.
idle beacon
the viewer alone has 2.5gb
wise coding would've recognized an acc and installed ow
but nah
what i am interested in tho is
the replay stuff
being saved or not?
sullen berry
We should be expecting replays of the owwc matches from tomorrow to be livestreamed and then saved to replay said matches
ultimately, we don't own the files
so if the viewer needs to go down
the saved replays will go down with it
minor laurel
Anyone wanna stream xQc pov tomorrow on twitch cos I’m a console player and can’t
modern apex
you mean fate?
karmic grotto
Where can I download client view?
Edit: I have it, I just need to install it.
karmic grotto
I thought the games would be in the morning in my timezone, but no, it's in evening
sullen berry
do we really need to countdown on this
marble quest
Yeah
sullen berry
@marble quest https://bit.ly/2P1iClu
dusk hinge
Blizzcon is in my time zone pog
gaunt acorn
you mean pacific?
dusk hinge
I’m na west coast