#esports-discussion
gaunt acorn
paper crag
Soldier is Italy in that picture?
that's a much lighter shade of blue than their usual shade of blue
gaunt acorn
@paper crag probably to help distinguish them from the other blues
queen drift
blu is superior
gaunt acorn
@warped axle we have the moira summer games skin, at least
hidden vault
why does the Aussie get green? lol?
gaunt acorn
@hidden vault any time the colours don't match their national flag
the answer is almost always "they use those colours in other sports"
look at any australian sports jerseys
green & gold are their national colours
torpid charm
Yeah that’s just their thing
vagrant niche
so, what is the drama going on with the Washington manager?
queen drift
ALLEGEDLY she offered positions to people, then when they made themselves available, retracted the offer
QUOTE
"Bdosins
191 points
·
14 hours ago
Summary if you cant watch right now:
Kate, the GM for the Washington DC OWL team, allegedly offered Harsha, formerly of the Shock, a job as an assistant coach for DC. After he parted ways with the Shock yesterday, Kate allegedly retracted her offer, didnt give a reason why, and left Harsha out to dry.
This has also happened with former Last Nights Leftovers players, who have allegedly turned down offers from OWL and Academy because Kate promised them a spot on the DC roster. However, Decod is allegedly the only member of LNL still being considered for the roster, and since they already have Janus he would likely be a backup at best. The rest of LNL, like Harsha, have been left out to dry with no coaching staff and rejected trial offers.
I said "allegedly" a lot bc I dont want this to be true. I hope its not but Mykl has been reliable lately.
credits to u/dividing-by-0 for writing the summary"
not the actual bdosin obviously
balmy wolf
thats a monkas
mint turtle
Take out the competition before the competition has begun 
fast basin
That's literally fucking people over for no valid reason
queen drift
@fast basin she’s saying that the org changed the budget on her
So offers she’s made can’t be kept because of the budget
People think that they basically spent all their money on Wizardhyeong and Janus, now they’ve had to backtrack on offers to other people
Notably Harsha
gaunt acorn
@queen drift that doesn't really explain the LNL guys
it's not like they're OWL players with expensive contracts to match or high-profile free agents
if DC can't even afford them; a bunch of unsponsored non-org contenders players..
who can they afford lol?
gaunt acorn
they already signed his contract
hidden vault
Janus 1 man team carry?
Is there any specific rule that says Wizhyeong or any of the stuff and coaches cannot play?
Ok scrap that i think that's obv
gaunt acorn
they are not contracted players, so no, they cannot play
gaunt acorn
more like 35 million, but yeah
warped axle
What exactly happened with the DC team?
sullen berry
Allegations, mostly
But from scrolling up, it sounds like the GM for the DC team has dropped promises to recruit members from OW NA Contenders Team Last Night's Leftovers and more noticeable Harsha leaving SF Shock to take up a supposed assistant coach role with DC.
The fact this doesn't sound very far fetched, as Harsha left shock recently
limber pine
To play devils advocate, 3 or 4 LNL players came out and said that they have no issues with Kate
And Harsha’s situation remains largely unknown
IMO it feels like one player/person was promised something and this whole thing was either purposefully or accidentally blown out of proportion
sullen berry
Probably, it sounds weighty if you mention the players she worked with had turned down OWL spots to possibly play together next season
sullen berry
No doubt I sense there wasn't any ill intent gtom the GM, but the lack of a follow up publicly would be inappropriate since bdosins just put it out there for interpretation
limber pine
That bdosins isn’t the real bdosins
limber pine
That account is a known trouble maker. He’s been banned from r/OW because stuff
pearl stratus
Ugh. I didn't think I'd overly miss OWL.
But I kind of do.
Also thinking on the Danteh to Houston news.
gaunt acorn
at least we have leaks
pearl stratus
I think if the meta stays where its at... Linkzr will be benched more than Jake.
And we'll see a bunch of Jake+Danteh.
Or Arhan + Danteh.
gaunt acorn
i think the meta will change by january
pearl stratus
I do too.
But if it doesn't pick back up to a Widow based meta I think those picks will stay mostly the same, except Danteh might shift with Sombra nerfs.
Since I think its pretty obvious Sombra will get changed again soon enough
At least Flame can embrace being wrong with memes.
Twitter
vagrant niche
aren't the last night left over super bad?
cause i remember them being super bad
on contenders
but yeah, if that's what happened, that's pretty shitty
but i guess, that's on the players, they should always ask for contract or some bound document
so they can seek legal action if the agreement was infringed
long belfry
If nothing was signed, they cannot prove anything
Watch the ending of the McDonalds movie
Kroc did the same to the brothers
pearl stratus
It's peoples ignorance and own stupidity if they accepted a verbal offer and gave up options.
You almost NEVER quit your job until you signed the contract for your new one.
That's just dumb af.
long belfry
Exactly
pearl stratus
Kate saying "I'm going to get you over here to DC, we need coaching" isn't wrong, or illegal. If you can somehow prove she said "Quit your job, and I'll get you over here" then its wrong.
She may be a GM, as well, but she won't overrule what Wizardhyeong wants to do with the team.
So if Wizard said "No, don't want him" that's as simple as that.
limber pine
but
pearl stratus
Also - to be completely fair - mykL has a history with Kate since they were both a part of Kugarna. There could be a lot of personal bias in the story.
limber pine
doesn't the GM hire the coach
i mean, i understand that wizard can choose his own coaching staff
but still
pearl stratus
GM + Investors I'm sure. Whoevers backing them most likely has a very large say.
DC isn't like say...
Boston or Shanghai.
Where your owner group is one guy.
Yeah, DC is group owned with Ein in the lead.
The group is tied in with Team Liquid, so I'm sure they had input on a coaching decision since they're not new to e-sports. But that's all conjecture.
ruby pendant
Wow, D.C has Overwatch team?! Anyway, you always sign contract first, verbal offers are useless for job offers.
limber pine
A couple of legal people on reddit claim that a verbal agreement is binding in California.
idk if that's true or not, or even applicable
just interesting
I feel the same way though. Contracts are there for a reason.
If Harsha left because he was offered a job before a contract was signed, then it's ultimately his fault.
It's still scummy though
ruby pendant
Think at best , plaintiff get $ for one month salary or whatever money he lost during that time period. It's can be hard to prove verbal contracts, especially if there is no start date, etc
pearl stratus
Verbal contracts are insanely hard to prove either way.
Unless he was recording it.
At which point he had to have made it clear he was recording it.
Since California is a two party recording state, not single like say.. NY.
TIME TO CHEER FOR ATLANTA IF THIS IS TRUE
green stump
@limber pine he already made a video on it
round obsidian
welp boys
we cant call them the outLULs anymore
they got rid of jake and got danteh
hell of an upgrade
round obsidian
he's solid but he's nothing special
he's like decent at everything but specialises in nothing
vagrant niche
he's way better than whatever the hell we had on shangai
round obsidian
no way
vagrant niche
except ADO
round obsidian
ADO is a god
vagrant niche
well i aint going to argue with you saying Jake is bad
whatever, my mind has bigger things to think about like Dafran's signing
that's just going to make me a super fan of the atlanta team
pearl stratus
Also Jake isn't going to be gone, that's silly.
balmy wolf
apperantly the dafran leak is real
pearl stratus
I mean its not a matter of if its real.
It's a matter of "Will they control him well enough he doesn't get banned within two weeks"
Because picking him up doesn't matter if he's benched and banned instantly.
round obsidian
jake is casting
round obsidian
he's retired from being a player though
pearl stratus
Find me a source.
round obsidian
didnt he say that when he declined team usa tryouts?
vagrant niche
uh? what?
round obsidian
im pretty sure he said he's got bigger things planned
vagrant niche
you clearly not keeping up with news
pearl stratus
That was for casting OWWC.
vagrant niche
you clearly don't know what you talking about
pearl stratus
And it was a smart way of getting experience when he probably wouldn't make OWWC Team.
While looking like he didn't not make it.
vagrant niche
seriously, you are giving me a bad impression already cause you are talking stuff you don't know about
pearl stratus
I know I'm right 😉
In current meta he's actually one of their best utilities.
Meta will change by January though most assuredly.
round obsidian
idk why you both have to act like a couple of cunts over one inaccurate thing i said lmao
round obsidian
vagrant niche
unless that rumored expansion is true
pearl stratus
They put that expansion on every year OW has been out so far.
vagrant niche
you are right
vagrant niche
this is not the first time i hear about the rumors
pearl stratus
Hard to know what a financial analyst qualifies as an expansion
If for some reason the meta doesn't settle and we have this current meta in January (which I'd honestly be okay with, we see a lot of different stuff this current meta so far)
I think Linkzr would see the least playtime, and that makes me sad.
lilac atlas
A new expansion could be the last social feature they hinted at earlier in the summer
round obsidian
if linkzr improves his widow i think he's in with a very good shot at maintaining his starting spot
pearl stratus
I think he'd be a rotate in like Pine, in that situation.
round obsidian
but they ahve been practicing with arhan a lot
pearl stratus
Because Widow is very situational now.
Arhan has the Genji and Doomfist, which are both solid in current meta.
vagrant niche
if my thoughts are right, if pharah is going to get substantial buffs, that means torb rework is on it's way and it's going to change meta drastically that they need to make pharah more chances to survive. And we know who plays a lot of torb too
pearl stratus
Danteh has the Sombra, which is a brainless pick.
vagrant niche
your boi Dafran
pearl stratus
I don't forsee a situation in which even with a full rework Torb becomes constant and not niche.
The coordination at OWL level is just really anti-builder.
I think he'd be nutty in ranked though.
vagrant niche
Throwing turrets behind shields and acting like a flank
pearl stratus
I mean maybe, its hard to tell without seeing what it is.
round obsidian
the throwing turrets part has been monkaS ever since they said it was a possibility
pearl stratus
But unless they flat out copy TF2 I don't see it.
round obsidian
launching sym turrets is cancerous enough
pearl stratus
Giving Torb a dispenser would be a big enough change.
But copyright laws and whatnot 😛
round obsidian
what do you mean by dispenser?
pearl stratus
The Engi Dispenser in TF2 was basically mobile healing as well as ammo, so in OW it would be a buildable healing station.
round obsidian
ah
pearl stratus
But there's no good way to balance that, and its too close to TF2 which they don't want.
round obsidian
was it unbalanced in tf2?
pearl stratus
No, but the games play very differently at their core. No shields etc.
round obsidian
ah i gotcha
pearl stratus
Imagine a Pirate ship where the carts now healing for double basically.
round obsidian
pearl stratus
At my core I think OW is too fast paced for builders, though I appreciate them trying.
round obsidian
mykl's leaks are interesting though
pearl stratus
I still haven't decided if I think he's credible or not for anything of major importance.
round obsidian
he went from being this clickbaity guy who posts semi-annoying daily OWL drama/content to being one of the premier leakers
pearl stratus
It feels like... he's trying too hard. You know?
pearl stratus
So he's throwing out everything he can for legitimacy.
Also the Kate thing bothers me because there's a conflict of interest.
pearl stratus
Whether he's right or wrong, they've worked together.
round obsidian
this leak will make or break him
pearl stratus
See I think its the Kate one.
Because he's put other peoples careers on the line with that one.
If it turns out even suspect enough to be considered false he's basically helped ruin Harsha's career.
bitter phoenix
Torb should be allowed 2 turrets. 1 lvl1 and 1 lvl 2
his ult upgrades one to lvl 3 and one to lvl 2
boom
pearl stratus
Basically said Kate was offering out deals then cancelling them with no words, had offered an assistant coaching spot to Harsha on DC, and most of the LNL roster.
bitter phoenix
he is perfect
pearl stratus
Most of the LNL roster turned down offers for tryouts for other teams because of the alleged offers from Kate
Harsha quit Shock, then didn't get an offer from DC like he was allegedly promised.
Rumor is Wizardhyeong didn't want him as an assistant so it overrode.
Kate made random mention of budget cuts.
LNL roster all defended her.
mykL is pushing the issue really hard, kind of out of nowhere.
Her responses are cryptic af
vagrant niche
Monte asked her and she didn't say much
pearl stratus
mykL and Kate have worked together in the past, however, so its a major conflict of interest.
vagrant niche
she told him to DM her
pearl stratus
I mean her response, while a cop out, could have been it.
She might have wanted to get the LNL team and DC cut her budget
At which point buying a whole team became too expensive
Since everyone has to agree to terms etc, etc.
It also could have been nothing.
round obsidian
well monte seems to be the one asking the real questions
pearl stratus
But if it turns out false the biggest issue is Harsha is pretty much fucked.
round obsidian
she tweeted out a blanket "mykl's video was riddled with errors"
pearl stratus
Because if I was in another org you'd assume Harsha could have leaked.
So why would you hire him.
round obsidian
if you're gonna say something is wrong you need to specifically point out what exactly is wrong
and challenge those points
pearl stratus
The biggest issue is burden of proof is on the accuser.
Not the accused.
And the only way mykL can prove it is to leak his source.
round obsidian
well you could argue that mykl has a small but proven track record of having accurate leaks
pearl stratus
Yeah but she can just turtle and say "Prove it."
round obsidian
and wouldn't make this accusation unless it's backed by something at least
she can but it doesnt look good for her
pearl stratus
It doesn't, but her current response looked worse.
round obsidian
indeed
pearl stratus
If I was her I would have just responded with "I think mykL is doing this due to our past history, I would like to see his proof for these statements."
It's basically a checkmate
round obsidian
could there be another reason for her secrecy though? i mean if his accusations are completely wrong then she can easily refute them
if she doesnt then mykl is the default to believe
pearl stratus
I mean if it came down from investors/gms/coach decisions, thats a valid reason.
You don't oust your boss.
Nothing she did was overly wrong, even at its base.
mykL is more arguing malicious intent with her actions, if they're true.
She might have been trying to get Harsha, they hired Wizardhyeong, he said fuck no.
Does it suck for Harsha? Sure.
Is it Kates fault the coach vetoed? No
round obsidian
i'd say extending contracts to players and coaches before snatching them away is pretty wrong
pearl stratus
You'd have to prove she did that though.
round obsidian
not legally or anything but it's pretty shitty business practice
pearl stratus
And if there were contracts there, they'd have been signed.
round obsidian
no they wouldnt be signed
pearl stratus
Verbal contracts are a fools acceptance.
Look at Kyky.
He was offered Vancouver.
They rescinded.
Is Vancouver shitty for it?
round obsidian
no but that's the organisation as a whole
pearl stratus
Because its the same exactly, just turned towards someone a streamer personality has history with.
round obsidian
here she's arguing that her budget was surprisingly cut
pearl stratus
Yeah but why would mykL target just her instead of the organization?
I'm more arguing the past history is more suspect than the charges.
round obsidian
i dont think it's because of their history
it's because she's the one making these tweets and she's the figurehead of the situation
pearl stratus
It probably isn't, but you can't be sure.
Which means credibility is lost on most of it.
round obsidian
the fact that they have history seems to be an unfortunate coincidence
i think any credibility lost on the fact that they have history is made up for by mykl's recent spotless record for accurate info
but that's just my opinion
round obsidian
yeah but think about it from his side
pearl stratus
From his side he had an entire community saying he was a joke of a person and should kill himself.
And he's scrambling to rebrand.
round obsidian
does it really make sense to throw away everything he gained from accurate leaks for a personal beef/vendetta or whatever they had
no this is where i completely disagree, he is in no way responsible for the actions of his fans
you're crucifying mykl for the misdeeds of his retarded fanbase
pearl stratus
Oh see I'm saying it was everyone who wasn't his fan base who hated him, which caused the rebrand.
His clickbait was like the aids of OW.
round obsidian
oh ok
ye i totally agree though
not with telling him to kill himself but definitely ending the clickbait
getting some credibility and making a name for himself
pearl stratus
Oh no, thats just the internet being retarded
round obsidian
agreed
pearl stratus
It's like xQc vs. xQc's twitch chat.
round obsidian
i was subbed to him for a while
but the constant spam of daily videos with very little actual content was mind numbing
had to unsub
pearl stratus
Yeah its like watching MrBeast seriously.
"Here's a 20 minute video with 18 minutes of ads and me being an informercial"
round obsidian
personally i think mykl doesnt really have any actual thoughtful or interesting commentary on OWL games
which is half his video right there
the rest is him speculating/reading reddit posts
pearl stratus
He's a very odd person because he's well connected in the community, but he doesn't seem to fully understand the game he played.
round obsidian
havent seen his recent stuff but his twitter stuff recently has been good
pearl stratus
At least xQc, who I don't actually like, understands the game and has useful commentary if you avoid his chat.
round obsidian
2nd best tracer in the world 👌
lowkey i think xQc is a genius when it comes to overwatch
i just think there's a barrier between his brain and his mouth that makes it difficult for him to articulate what he thinks
pearl stratus
I wouldn't say genius, personally. But he's a lot smarter about the game than he acts.
The problem is he looks at his chat, and tries to interact with them too much and it ruins him.
Because his chat actively tries to trigger him, and it works because he's already volatile personality wise.
copper solstice
Yeah,
pearl stratus
But as a player and an analyst? He's really smart.
copper solstice
Plus isn’t his chat like lower
pearl stratus
His chat is probably 70% fine, 30% cancer. But the 30% is the vocal majority.
copper solstice
Yeah,
pearl stratus
Having a persona is fine, taking it too far is what gets you in trouble.
Look at someone as dumb as like DrDisrespect. He has a full twitch personality, but he keeps it in check and separate from his real life.
That's the key
copper solstice
And isn’t the 30% of xqc chat is the ones who most likely show anyways
pearl stratus
I'm not sure, honestly. The first thing I do if I watch him stream is block the chat.
Because its a useless chat.
copper solstice
Yeah, that’s the reason why I didn’t look at chat during OWWC LA
pearl stratus
Also previous conversation thing - I hate agreeing with Sideshow because I dislike him but...
Twitter
copper solstice
Atleast it isn’t semmler 
pearl stratus
I mean Semmler is like.
Semmlers like a golden retriever.
He's just goofy and dumb, you can't actually hate him.
But you know he's not going to contribute much, since he's just a golden retriever.
copper solstice
I enjoy semmler, because he’s funny. And a lot of people dislike semmler
pearl stratus
It's also really interesting to see how gamers interact with this kind of stuff because they're demanding all of this random transparency.
That no other league gives.
So you get this kind of stuff happening because its how the community wants to consume, despite the fact that other major sports leagues globally are kind of like "Fuck your transparency. We're doing our stuff."
vagrant niche
wot? semmler is good
he's getting better
and his D.Va was pretty good
sure, there might be better casters
but he aint bad
green stump
@pearl stratus isn't mykl just trying to get the same recognition that slasher gets
pearl stratus
No, because despite all of his issues Slasher is actually a journalist.
mykL is a shitty content creator attempting to be a journalist with none of the ability of how to do it properly.
My honest guess is that mykL while putting out leaks that are correct is burning a lot of bridges to do so because he doesn't check with people on basic things.
It doesn't mean his leaks are all wrong, but he'll overstep on something major eventually and it'll be interesting.
green stump
But that's still him trying to get they recognition and Fame that slasher has now
pearl stratus
The problem is how he's doing it. mykL isn't doing it because he's a journalist he's doing it just for the paycheck, which means to upkeep he needs to keep [x] amount out because really.... he's useless beyond that. He's self cannibalizing if that makes sense.
He's setting up a system where he's creating content quickly, with bad checks. And he'll need to upkeep that system.
And when your system is built on a shoddy workmanship it eventually collapses.
Slasher has fame, or more likely infamy. But he was a real reporter, he knows how to do his job and make sure he has the proper checks in place for his stories and sources.
That's the big difference.
green stump
That's more because of how 'daily overwatch content' promise when he should have given himself more time and spacing...
pearl stratus
He also just doesn't have training in doing this really.
copper solstice
Isn’t mykl just doing it for the $$$ anyways
green stump
However if this leak falls through and becomes nothing, his reputation will be in an even worse state than before
copper solstice
With Dafran?
green stump
No for mykl in general
pearl stratus
Roughly its like..
mykL is buzzfeed, and now he's pretending like he's the BBC.
But he's still using the checks and balances from being Buzzfeed.
And you can tell, instantly, that its just for the clicks and money because he linked his god damn Patreon to his videos because he's trying not to sell ads.
But no one will pay him to do what he does because he's not worth a paycheck.
copper solstice
Plus everyone has Adblocker now adays
pearl stratus
You also can't avoid ads in youtube that easily.
balmy wolf
I may be late here but what are your guys' and gals' thoughts on Danteh to Houston?
bitter phoenix
He will help take some of the pressure off link and can fill the spot jake has when it comes to hitscan
limber pine
and Genji
pearl stratus
He was, historically, a good Zarya but not needed on Shock.
vagrant niche
don't they have arhan for genji role?
pearl stratus
While he might not have needed it there its a nice flex option.
Arhan is Genji/Doomfist mostly right now.
But realistically every DPS on Houston can play Genji at an OWL level.
As we've seen.
Genji isn't a bad overlap to have either, at least in current meta.
pearl stratus
Sometimes, but not always. Nanoblade is real.
Ana being around makes DPS slightly more an open role.
We even saw Nanovisors in OWWC.
copper solstice
I mean if they really do need a Zarya they can always put in spree
pearl stratus
So the problem with Spree is flexibility.
copper solstice
Yeah, isn’t he a one trick Zarya?
pearl stratus
The reason why DPS on Zarya is important is it opens up the team comp in game at that moment.
He can play other things, I'm sure.
But I'm not sure to what caliber.
Right now the meta tends to have DPS that can rotate to support (Brig) or off-tank (Zarya), and thats very important.
Because you can change entire comps on the fly in response to enemy swaps.
It's an evolving game of rock paper scissors.
The only static tends to be D'va.
copper solstice
Yeah which they have coolmatt for dva
pearl stratus
So you get people like Agilities who now flexes to Brig, Sinatraa who flexes to Zarya (or Rein, lol).
Agilities even showed off Lucio in OWWC.
But I think that was more because they were playing a subpar team.
So why not.
vagrant niche
solo soundbarrier
pearl stratus
I mean
He did get a 4k, didn't he?
Pure BM.
But yeah, flex on DPS is even more important now than ever I'd say.
Because you're flexing to other roles as well.
copper solstice
Yeah,
pearl stratus
No, that was Hydration.
queen drift
ahh
pearl stratus
On the mystery heroes Ruin comp against Outlaws.
But Hydration actually had, at the time, a T500 Lucio only account.
Iirc.
So it wasn't like a crazy flex, just an unexpected one.
queen drift
lucio isnt that much of a flex for a flex dps anywa
pearl stratus
Projectile, especially.
queen drift
projectile is flex dps essentially
pearl stratus
But yeah this flex requirement, imo, is why I think you're seeing people like Shadowburn having issues if rumors are true.
He showed us a very shallow hero pool in OWL despite how refined it was.
queen drift
Mmm true, but you also have people like Pine, Tviq, Geguri who havent been dropped yet
pearl stratus
Geguri is D'va, with a flex to Zarya. That's perfectly fine.
Tviq can swap to Brigitte, he just happens to be the worst flex in the league.
vagrant niche
you release Geguri, you lose a crapton of money
queen drift
an offtank that cant play hog isn't a very reliable off tank
pearl stratus
Pretty much across the board.
Hog isn't an offtank.
Right now he's a waste of a team slot.
Also he's usually your third tank,
Which means its on DPS.
You don't drop the D'va.
queen drift
thats not how that works lol
queen drift
Ana was a waste of a team slot for a long time
pearl stratus
And Geguri flexed to Orissa.
queen drift
didnt make her a dps
pearl stratus
I'm more saying Hog has limited potential currently because of whats happened to the game, and he's useful really only in minor situations. So lacking a flex to it doesn't matter if a DPS can cover it.
And in those minor situations she and fearless just swap roles.
Since she can flex to Orissa.
queen drift
That still doesn't make him a dps though. It means he's an offtank that DPS tend to play in the current meta
pearl stratus
And he flexes to Hog.
queen drift
?
pearl stratus
I was more saying he's non-existent, it was tongue in cheek hyperbole.
Even OWWC saw limited success with a Hog Goats, it just got outdone by D'va, or even Hammond.
queen drift
yeah but you're not understanding that just because someone isnt good right now doesnt mean a role shouldnt be able to play them
it's blizzard
hog might be the end-all be-all tank in 20 fukn minutes
pearl stratus
Oh I wasn't misunderstanding, I just don't think its an off-tank flex problem more of a DPS one unless something DRASTICALLY changes.
Which basically would be them deleting D'va.
D'va is the new constant for OW, like Tracer was.
Yes, I agree that in the future that could theoretically change.
But thats ways off.
But I defer to Space's interview for OWWC. "I'm a D'va so I basically just only have to focus on D'va. It makes it easy for me."
drifting tulip
pearl stratus
Lmao.
vagrant niche
looks like your MLG kid grown up
pearl stratus
That's the kind of poise I trust in a journalist.
torpid charm
I’m late but in most situations what team will do is have their off healer or DPS flex into Hog, I feel like only few in the league actually had their off tank flex to hog
balmy wolf
Dafran and xQc to Atalanta 👀
hidden osprey
Call me late but Dafran back in OWL is the craziest rumour I've heard since the season ended 😮
bitter phoenix
If they go to Atlanta i will be pissed. Well if xqc does
because that would be my team and I don't like his mumble mouth xD
hidden osprey
There aren't any rumours for xQc joining OWL teams is there?
He did some interviews a week or so ago and he was giving the impression that he wasn't planning on to
limber pine
that's the rumor yeah
pearl stratus
If Atlanta gets both Dafran and xQc then rip Atlanta.
2/6 of your team having a 90% chance to be banned.
Good planning
limber pine
That's why I have trouble believing ATL has signed him.
limber pine
aye
pearl stratus
"You know who should build our roster. Twitch chat. They obviously have a clear gauge on what the team needs."
jagged crater
they'd sign both for the memes and marketing
pearl stratus
I actually don't think, from a team perspective, xQc is that marketable anymore.
As a streamer sure.
I'd sign him as a streamer.
But not as a pro.
bitter phoenix
he tilts to hard to be a pro
jagged crater
didnt seeem to tilt that bad during s1
thought he performed OK
dafran on the otherhand
bitter phoenix
the desk slams at worlds were heard around the world
jagged crater
we'll see how reformed he is
i still would love to see dafran perform on stage
just to see it happen
copper solstice
Yeah,
i never watched dafran before
i dont know if he rages or anything because i never seen clips
jagged crater
xqc or dafran would get people to tune in , buy merchandise etc
copper solstice
Yeah,
pearl stratus
Unfortunately his OW resume is two years of him being a fuck up.
But thats the orgs problem, not mine.
If Atlanta wants him thats their business, but I remember him being banned from Contenders, then being banned from Community rep for OWWC as the big public ones. There were a ton of other bans in between.
supple acorn
When he was banned from the community thing, he was trying to entertain the stream, but people took as as really trying to abuse to win
pearl stratus
Road to hell is paved with good intentions. He did something stupid, whether it was for fun or not.
Twitch chat is the road to hell for lots of good players.
supple acorn
Doesn't change the fact that people really hate him for "abusing" to win when it was not the case
pearl stratus
Doesn't change the fact he lost community lead either.
supple acorn
Yes, you are right, doesn't change the fact that people only read what they want to read
pearl stratus
I mean you could also mention him getting banned from Contenders for purposefully streaming an entire day of him throwing while playing a dating simulator.
During the games.
supple acorn
When he was try harding as Lucio, people reported him for throwing
not carrying the team with tracer
reddit swallowed iut whoekl as "throwoer" again
pearl stratus
I appreciate you want to defend him, but either way he's a risk and its the organizations issues. Not ours.
limber pine
Blizzard isn't likely to look at little things like that
pearl stratus
But he'll be under higher scrutiny so he needs to embrace it.
limber pine
it's the big stuff he's in trouble for
supple acorn
It's like saying we have niothing to do with spreading misinformation 🤔
we are just consummler after allk right
limber pine
i don't know what that means
Blizzard doesn't care about Reddit perception
They have enough evidence to support their own opinions
supple acorn
But when history is mostly reddit misinformation, whelp
limber pine
yeah...no
a large majority of the things he's gotten in trouble for is well documented
supple acorn
so he really intented to exploit the game to win ? did he really intended to throw as lucio ?
pearl stratus
Prove that he didn't other than his word. Even when you're doing it for lulz shaving off 2-3 seconds from your respawn is a benefit.
limber pine
You aren't listening to me
copper solstice
even if he does come back into owl and he does something stupid then its going to be alot of stuff that will go down.
supple acorn
Intent is the word
copper solstice
and most likely not a slap on the wrist either
pearl stratus
Intent is something that can be changed by opening your mouth.
supple acorn
Yeah that's what I don't like. The burden of all the other things that was wrong on plus on the shit he actually did wrong
pearl stratus
You can very rarely prove intent, so you look at facts.
Was the disconnect a bug that provided his team with an advantage?
Yes.
Did he do it?
Yes.
Did he thus break ToS?
Yup.
supple acorn
Does playong lucio bannable ? he was
pearl stratus
And like Sprite said, thats probably not one they'd care about.
supple acorn
fact he try hard lucio, got reported and banned
pearl stratus
They'd care about the ones like getting yourself banned from Contenders.
limber pine
^^^
pearl stratus
And getting yourself banned from being a Community Rep.
limber pine
^^^
pearl stratus
You're focusing on one stupid incident because you have no argument.
limber pine
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
pearl stratus
Also Atlanta would also not care about the Lucio one. Why would you even give a fuck.
supple acorn
But he was banned cause of the public image it cause, but it only cause bad image of misinformation
pearl stratus
They have to worry about a player who has a LONG history of getting banned from Pro events.
The ladder is a bunch of monkeys to these Orgs.
They don't give a shit about it.
Also note I never said that he shouldn't be picked up. I said they need to keep him under control.
You can't do to him what Dallas did to xQc
supple acorn
its like I was spreading that this guy was racist for saying I hate chinese woman. Even if it's a lie, they would have to banned to because of the image
pearl stratus
You need to invest in training him for PR and not being stupid enough to get himself banned.
Because otherwise, based on his track record, he will get banned again.
supple acorn
He got banned for playing Lucio
limber pine
@supple acorn We are telling you that Blizz/ATL doesn't care about that. You're focusing on something that holds no bearing on the current conversation.
pearl stratus
Yeah, no offense but I don't have the time or crayons to continue this argument with a wall.
supple acorn
Im not arguing that blizzard just foloow the public image even if it's based on misinformation
just that when we all know that was bullshit was they still follow it p
"Ok they have to do it because of the public image it project even if it's based on reddit mob misinformation. ok let's move it on our life"
pearl stratus
He's claiming that some of the bans are based off a reddit witchhunt.
limber pine
yeah...that's not true
pearl stratus
If I can understand that mumble.
The last person I can remember getting in major trouble from a reddit thing was Taimou calling the kid a slur.
supple acorn
The most recent one was when he was watching videos while playing QP. All the most top comment was he was throwing
pearl stratus
But that was relatively deserved.
supple acorn
"bouh he is not try harding in qp, the worst of the worst"
limber pine
That's an irrelevant argument
nobody is arguing how "bad" it is
His previous bans are not based off anything except facts
pearl stratus
You need a new argument.
limber pine
WE ARE SAYING BLIZZARD DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THIS INSTANCE
supple acorn
@limber pine I'm not arguing that
supple acorn
No
limber pine
The whole Lucio situation is moot
limber pine
Blizzard doesn't care, ATL doesn't care about it
pearl stratus
Because you've provided literally nothing.
limber pine
it's not worth discussing
pearl stratus
And its pointless to talk to you about it.
supple acorn
My point is that it's bullshit that blizzard have to bow down to the mass because they want him down, when most of the things they want him down are "normal" to most player
pearl stratus
Would you say him being banned from contenders was bowing down to the masses?
Or abusing a bug in game?
pearl stratus
Okay, so you agree with us.
Thank you for the support on our argument.
Was that so hard?
supple acorn
I did not disagree with that
It's that blizzard foloow the public image, except the contender thing he all the thing was "normal"
pearl stratus
I appreciate your support in knowing that Atlanta needs to keep a stronger eye on him.
Thanks.
pearl stratus
How many times was the Korean player banned from a pro event?
supple acorn
But no one here care about that racist korean player, so no need to watch him
pearl stratus
I'm not even saying that as a goad.
I'm saying that from an organization point of view.
Because its inherent risk vs. perceived risk.
supple acorn
I don't dispute that they have to follow the public image
pearl stratus
You're arguing emotionally, not logically.
supple acorn
sponsor and stuff
pearl stratus
It's not that. It's about investment.
Say I'm going to draft Dafran, and pay him $100,000/yr.
I know he's been banned from pro play before.
It's protecting my investment to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Because he still gets paid when he's banned.
So I'm making sure he has strong clauses in the contract that protects my investment should it happen again.
IT has nothing to do with ANYTHING else.
But protecting my investment.
That's what I don't think the average player understands.
supple acorn
But it's based on public image, we all know he not gonna pulled something big
pearl stratus
How do you know?
He's done it multiple times before.
What he says is literally worse than dog shit.
supple acorn
like we all know the korean racist is never gonna speak something alike
pearl stratus
Because actions are stronger than words.
Dafran has no say, and he has no opinion on the matter.
supple acorn
I'm not arguing we have no saying
pearl stratus
But you are. Because you want him treated like he's a person.
He's not a person anymore.
He's someone who's been banned multiple times from pro-events I'm investing money into.
He's a number now.
Now whether protecting my investment means getting him a PR coach (which they should), a sports therapist (again, they should), or having stronger clauses in the contract (they definitely should) is up to the Org.
supple acorn
you are right I was arguing about saying, just that it's bullshit blizzard just bow down to the public image
pearl stratus
But the public image isn't at question.
supple acorn
when most of it is reddit made explosion
pearl stratus
It's not public image he got himself banned from contenders.
that was on him being a fucking retard.
I don't care what he does on ladder. Ladder is useless.
supple acorn
well yes it is. Do you think the korean racist is in "danger" ? no
pearl stratus
Again. Did he get banned.
supple acorn
because no one care. no public danger on blizzard
pearl stratus
Because if he didn't? I don't care.
I don't give a fuck about some white knight on reddit defending left right or center.
I care about what happened.
Dafran got banned. It happened. Thats what I care about.
He's a risk to my investment, without the witch hunt.
supple acorn
but it's true the "eyes" are focuesed on certain players based more on public image
pearl stratus
Well than those people need to not be fucking idiots.
If you can't handle your fame, don't be famous.
pearl stratus
Yep.
So did Flower.
So did OGE.
Do you want to bet OGE got the shit end of the stick on his contract?
Because I would.
supple acorn
no public image repercussion, so no need for blizzard to have special eyes on him
I would say, if they also get the end of the stick, I would not argue
pearl stratus
I can gaurantee you that OGE probably did. Because he was banned from play in Korea, so Dallas could negotiate his contract how they wanted.
For Pine, Babybay, Fl0wer that primarily happened outside of OW (Pine and Flower were in TF2).
supple acorn
apex is dead
pearl stratus
IDDQD was hacking in Doom.
All those events have no direct attachment to OW - so its a bad argument to make.
Dafran got banned from contenders and released a statement that said he doesn't give a fuck about his career.
Thats what you look at as an Org.
supple acorn
It's just that it's infuriating when some player get "more" because they have more public actions, specially when these public action are bullshit
pearl stratus
That's how fame works.
He makes money off of being that famous, he should be an adult.
supple acorn
if all the shit he done was not bullshit, fine
pearl stratus
You're argument is that the org cares about that though, and they don't.
supple acorn
but when a reddit thread destoy him for playing quickplay while watching videos :p not cool
pearl stratus
In fact him having a following makes him more attractive to an org because it brings fans.
But his bans from a pro-scene make him a liability.
Also you probably shouldn't say shit like "I'd rather work at McDonalds than be a pro" when you're Dafran.
supple acorn
but you know very welll that's the contender thing is not the only reason
supple acorn
his public image based on false bullshit also count
pearl stratus
It's his only exposure into the pro scene.
And he fucked it up.
Twice.
Say you have a girlfriend - she fucks one of your friends.
You decide to get back together.
She fucks them again.
You getting back together a third time?
You need to stop being emotional because its a streamer you like, its killing your argument. Especially since we all said he's fine to play.
supple acorn
no its more. dafran steal a thing, he get 3 month jail, then he get 1 year probation, then peoiple spread bullshit, then he get 1 more year of probation
the 1 additionnal year of probation we all know it's public image and not the contender
public image based on blusshit
I'm emotionnal because I know that if something like that happen to me, I would not know how to get out of it
pearl stratus
Except you're assuming a team that paid 35M+ for their OWL spot is going to listen to reddit.
pearl stratus
Atlanta has no public image right now. You're at blank slate.
So that doesn't fly.
pearl stratus
How many followers does Dafran have?
supple acorn
if this image was based on truth "dreamlkasper pedophilia stuff) ok, but when it's based on false, that's bad
pearl stratus
30-40k probably? You'll hire that. Those numbers fly more than him being banned for Lucio.
Seagull got picked up on Dallas mostly because of his streamer numbers.
It's fan support.
supple acorn
But it like saying it's ok for Japan to have many smoker because they have a high life expency
no
supple acorn
so you are saying seagull procareer is based on public image ?
pearl stratus
He hadn't played pro in over a year.
His pick up was heavily influenced by his stream count.
supple acorn
and if that public image was based on falsehood it's totally ok ?
pearl stratus
I'm saying that Dafran having a popular stream is actually an incentive TO hire him.
You seem to think its a reason not to.
supple acorn
it's not different than someone mailing ouy boss that you did something shady when you did not. No raise, no promotion, more likely to get fired
pearl stratus
Here - lets do a test.
If Dafran does end up playing for Atlanta.
Would you watch him play?
supple acorn
yes, but if not for all the bullthist lie, more people would watch him, bigger raise, less likely to get ban for minor things, etc....
pearl stratus
Here's a hint:
Most people don't give a fuck about reddit who follow the pro scene.
supple acorn
look at more boss example above
pearl stratus
I think you attribute a whole lot more power to r/cow than it actually has.
For instance -
I had no clue Dafran got banned for playing Lucio.
Never knew, didn't care.
Still don't.
supple acorn
just account ban, not pro banned
pearl stratus
Yeah, don't care.
Never knew.
I really only follow Contenders, OWWC, and OWL.
All I knew about Dafran is he has insane tracking, and he fucked over Selfless by getting himself banned.
That's all I know about him.
supple acorn
but still public image more tarnish based on bullshit = less opportunity, less salary, etc...
pearl stratus
I don't care about ladder play (because it doesn't matter) and I don't care about ladder ranking.
So all I've ever known about Dafran is summing up in that sentence above.
That's his entire resume to me.
supple acorn
It's like being a "pervet deviant" for peeing in the street and having to say what you did at every job interview
pearl stratus
He fucked over Selfless.
End of resume.
Well banned from Community Lead as well.
But I don't give a fuck about that.
CL's are dumb af.
supple acorn
but we all know his pro "career" is burden not just the contender
That's what I arguue
Sorry if I get too into it but as someone with speach problem, I relate to people saying wrong shit and you have to suffer all the consequnce
woven mulch
pearl stratus
Too much of a liability imo.
Pick one, invest in it properly.
Personally I'd pick xQc.
Because tanks/healers are more important.
supple acorn
Yes for the contender I understand, but we all know it's not all about the contender
limber pine
"we all know" is wrong
that's the whole purpose of this argument
Contenders and OWWC are 100% valid
anything after that is irrelevant
pearl stratus
Thats why I was seeing how you'd rebuttal to me not knowing anything about Dafran.
Because I literally don't know, or care, anything about him.
All I know about him is his pro path.
Which he fucked up, hard.
vagrant niche
wait, is someone here bashing Dafran??? cause if that's so, let me at em' !! 
supple acorn
I not contested the punishement for contender :p
pearl stratus
And thats how I'll always see him.
pearl stratus
I'm not bashing Dafran directly @vagrant niche
We're arguing that he's a liability for a team based upon his bans in pro play and that if the rumor is true on him being picked up he'd need investment to make sure he doesn't do something stupid enough to get banned again.
supple acorn
yes
pearl stratus
I think my exact words were "Don't do what Dallas did to xQc"
vagrant niche
i don't know where, but i heard he's not going to stream
supple acorn
contender is a good reason
vagrant niche
if he gets signed
pearl stratus
Thats a huge start.
pearl stratus
My guess would be potentially.
I think "high risk" players are going to start getting stream regulated contracts.
At least thats what I'd do if I was an Org.
Like when Eqo got in trouble and they shut down his streaming for 3 months.
supple acorn
Like, reputation on falsehood could cut his salary(opportunity/etc..) certain part
pearl stratus
Or contract termination clauses based on how they act.
supple acorn
just like good reputation increase opportunity and salary
pearl stratus
NFL and the NBA both have pretty strong Personal Conduct clauses.
And since OWL hired a bunch of NBA people
I'm betting we see those come in.
supple acorn
like seagull having high salary is normal, but if something start spreading bullshit, then his salary would have been lower etc...
pearl stratus
The rumors for Seagull were that he had one of the highest salaries in OWL because of the fan base he brought in.
Because streamers bring you fans.
supple acorn
and he brought that thanks to public image
pearl stratus
Anyway I'm out of work so I'm no longer being paid to have this debate. Later!
supple acorn
it's like the smokers in japan. If Japan had way less smoker, life expency would big bigger (random thought)
I think there is a term called something "Opportunity Loss"
limber pine
yes, but clearly the rumor comes from something
unless Mykl is making things up
somebody said on reddit that KSF covers Agilities hero pool + Widow?
supple acorn
Is that normal salary contract when you can't just fire people for no reason ?
limber pine
Most contracts allow being fired for "probable cause"
or being fired for no reason
depends on the contract
supple acorn
the "LA Valiant +1d him and didn't give him the option to look at other offers." brings me to think they just wanted him out without having to breach contract, but if there is no punishement then nevermind
wait I misread
forget
I read wrong
I read "LA valiant gave him 1d to seek another team" lol
I feel like Iike it would but normal to just delete the above lines, but I want to force myself to see how I misread people
dusty surge
So what's going on with the rosters. Why are established names being set free already?
queen drift
Mykl has been pretty consistent with legit leaks
These latest ones are a lot bigger tho
dreamy dock
geguri, fearless, and diya sitting alone in the team house since shanghai released literally their entire team and all their coaches
this is all the contribution i have for this channel. a meme. thank u for ur time.
supple acorn
Wasn't there rumour of SH season 1 originally build upon players having corruption and relationship more than skilled chinese players ?
and now they are keeping the "good" part ?
queen drift
Not really a rumour
Very confirmed
U4 was hard boosted by a few of the members of SHD
Undead had his whole un-dad drama
Both are scum
Geguri Fearless Ado and Sky weren’t involved
Not sure if Diya was
But essentially everyone else was
pearl stratus
Diya wasn't.
Diyas grandparent died.
Thats why he went home.
Or was sick, and has since died.
I think the latter.
pearl stratus
I think he's only viewed as good because of how short he played.
In retrospect he was really only good at McCree and Widow. And the newer meta would have destroyed him.
long belfry
He and Diya were the only consistent players
pearl stratus
And, ironically, Diya was the better Widow - but was forced to flex around to everything.
If you can find some of the pre-season matches, or their.. Stage 4? maps against Houston you can watch Diya widow.
It's kind of ridiculous.
long belfry
pearl stratus
It was when he got player of the match, despite his team losing because he was going bananas.
Yeah I found it. His stats for the match was like... 25k damage, 26.8% crit hit, with 46 or so eliminations. Just can't find match footage.
This was pre-season from a Dynasty scrim: https://twitter.com/overwatchleague/status/938645862338588672?lang=en
ruby pendant
@dreamy dock Why they release FreeFeel?? Freefeel the best support player on Dragons!
balmy wolf
sf shock traded danteh so dafran could come?
mint turtle
Issa shame Sinatra leaked that
I feel like dafran has been waiting for something, and now he can't even tell everyone cause they already know
pearl stratus
pearl stratus
They're planning on doing a DPS rotation is all he said, which isn't a bad idea.
To prevent burn out.
And let Agilities + Soon have some rest.
queen drift
nah he said they gave him permission to talk to other teams
which means they aren't set on him being an important regular
pearl stratus
I think it means that if an offer is good enough almost anyone is tradeable.
Which is a very sports lesson in reality.
If a team is willing to overpay/overtrade for him they'd be stupid not to look into it.
Also if they want to be fair to their players, letting him field higher offers if he wants is being overly fair to him.
His upcoming WC performance could let him demand a higher salary, etc.
queen drift
idk there's a difference between allowing someone to talk to other teams, and someone being overpaid for
pearl stratus
There is, but they have the option on him still for a contract extension. So fielding offers isn't a bad idea.
Also mykL is throwing a lot of random shit at the wall today, so there's still that.
Also mykL has the most punchable face in the world. I don't think I'd ever seen him.
queen drift
he is yeah but so far most of what hes said has turned out right
kate was the first thing that was a major discrepancy iirc
also yeah. mykl is a punchable guy. I hate him espescially after EFFECT
But. He gets stuff right so 🤷
pearl stratus
Kate being a major discrepancy is HUGE though.
Because he used to work for her.
So conflict of interest + wrong.
queen drift
its not wrong yet tho is it?
like remember fissure/slasher
slasher said stuff about him and GLAD
he denied it
gaunt acorn
it's not wrong
queen drift
people shit on slasher for being wrong
gaunt acorn
in fact kate has blamed the owners changing her budget
queen drift
yeah i saw
gaunt acorn
all you can accuse mykl of at this point is not having all the facts
not being outright wrong
queen drift
^^
i hate mykl but
hes not often wrong about this stuff
by discrepancy i meant its the only one being majorly argued and denied
queen drift
?
pearl stratus
DC had an official release saying the leak was incorrect and that their recruiting process is org wide.
mykL's response was 'I'll still report what gets denied{
queen drift
pearl stratus
Yeah. mykL has too much financially to gain since he's basically becoming a nobody.
queen drift
didnt he try becoming a fortnite guy when owl drama was getting stalwe
pearl stratus
mykL's relatively failed long term at everything.
queen drift
did you see his video about kungarna
where he hyped them up so hard and made it seem like they had all these rivalries with other teams
it was v cringe
pearl token
I didnt care about who or what mykL is or says until today.
That Valiant stuff is just annoying. Even if its true, releasing that kind of info is just bad for everyone
just the lowest form of communication
the season isnt til friggin January anyway so who the hell would decide that kind of thing rn
queen drift
you'd be surprised
pearl token
if they wanna move past Agilities, whatever its a sport and thats how it works
So i dont blame the Valiant
Its just stupid that they have to have that stuff out in the open for no reason
queen drift
i dont think its stupid.. i dont think anyone seriously "blames" valiant, its a perfectly reasonable thing
But I also like leaks and journalism around sports in general
it gives interesting stuff to read about in off season
and it gives personality to teams
be it good or bad
pearl token
Granted it is interesting
Id just rather OWL not be like the NFL where the goal is to make WWE like storyline drama
At the expense of teenagers careers lol
queen drift
point is its not storyline drama
its not scripted (that we know of)
they're not letting players go for the drama and for the views
they do it because they thin kthey'll have a better shot at winning
pearl token
No i know its not but idk. I just hate seeing these guys have their names tossed around. Like with this one i could almost picture mykL playing eenie meenie miney to pick which team hasbt had drama yet
And releasing this to stir up crap
and ye i agree. Its not the teams fault. I want the Valiant to play who will win them matches
queen drift
if you want a less devious esque point of view on it look at slasher
hes not doing much rn but when OWL is live he's great
typically objective with a lot of experience
mykl is a lot more sensational
pearl token
Good to know. Im not familiar with any of these leak sources so far